July 20, 2025 • 68 mins
In The Crease (ITC) is where history, mystery, and the human condition collide. Hosted by J E DOUBLE F, each episode blends storytelling, analysis, and dark humor to explore the strange, the forgotten, and the unsettlingly relevant.
🎧 New episodes release bi-weekly.
📅 Current Season: ITC Season 4 (Episodes 61–80).
🎧 New episodes release bi-weekly.
📅 Current Season: ITC Season 4 (Episodes 61–80).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
H the stresholds, step through past, present, future. We are
(00:29):
not all time.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
The time previously on in the grease, we stood among
(02:23):
the soldiers of Edge Hill, where muskets roared, ghosts marched,
and even the King's men came face to face with
the impossible. An entire battlefield caught in a loop, England's
first Great Civil War, echoing across time. A haunting, yes,
but not just a haunting of place, a haunting of meaning,
(02:44):
Because behind every phantom, every spectral footstep heard down a
moonlit corridor, isn't that the question that really lingers? Not
who's there? But where did they go? Well, tonight we're
gonna pull back that veil a little further, not to
(03:06):
chase shadows, not the catalog bumps in the night, but
to follow the stories of those who died and came
back to tell us what they saw. Welcome to itc
Episode sixty six, Near Death Experiences and the Afterlife. So
(03:26):
let me ask you something, maybe a little personal. Have you,
like myself, ever come so close to death that the
world changed shape? The callers maybe looked a little sharper,
people felt maybe a little kinder, and you, you were
suddenly tuned into something beyond words for you. Maybe it
(03:51):
was a car crash, a fall, a drowning, a moment
on an operating table, or maybe it wasn't your life
that stopped someone else's. Was it a parent, a friend,
a child, gone too fast, too soon, and just for
a second you felt them, Not metaphorically, not in your heart,
(04:16):
you felt them. Maybe just maybe you chalked it up
to grief, maybe you're still quite unsure, or maybe just
maybe that was the closest you've ever been to whatever
comes next. You're not alone. All over the world, across
centuries and cultures, people have described the same astonishing thing
(04:39):
that for a moment, whether after flatlining, falling into a coma,
or simply crossing some indefinable threshold, they left this world
and went somewhere else. It wasn't a dream or even
a metaphor, but a journey and encounter, a message, a
(05:00):
life review, a corridor of light, maybe a voice saying
it's not your time. These aren't ghost stories. These are
death stories with a bit of a twist ending. Now,
(05:21):
to be clear, this isn't some spiritualistic seance, and we're
not selling any sort of crystals or you know, promising
that everything floats toward a warm light. Hear it in thecrease.
You know the rules. We're gonna honor the mystery, but
we're also going to interrogate it a little bit. We're
(05:44):
gonna take a look at history, at neuroscience, a culture, poetry,
quantum mechanics, and sometimes just the raw human ache to
understand what happens when we die, Because let's be honest,
for all the progress we've made, I mean, let's face it,
we've walked on the moon, we've split the atom, we've
(06:06):
sequenced our own DNA, but we still can't answer the
one question every child eventually ask, what happens when I die? Well,
tonight we are going to examine the closest thing we
have to an answer. Near death experiences are indease as
(06:28):
you may heard them call now. They may be anecdotal,
but they are everywhere. Hundreds of thousands of people, cross continents, cultures,
and belief systems report startling similar experiences. A tunnel of light,
a sense of floating outside the body, seeing their own
surgery from above, the uniting with dead relatives, hearing the
(06:57):
music but not with your ears, the sudden feeling of
absolute and utter peace, and perhaps most eerily out of
the mall, feeling like it was more real than life itself.
And then they come back. The monitor beeps, the water
(07:22):
is coughed out, the paddles did indeed work, and they
are now changed, sometimes for the better, sometimes confused, almost
always with a story to tell that sounds more like
science fiction. But they will swear it happened. And many
(07:45):
would rather die again than say it was just a dream.
And a world obsessed with power and control, these stories well,
they kind of remind us of something terrifying and kind
of at the same time, perhaps we are not in control,
and maybe, just maybe that is okay. Now, before we
(08:11):
truly begin, let me say the following tonight's episode is
not about proving anything. You probably won't walk away with certainty.
You'll walk away as always with the maybe the mystery
sharpened the little bit, and maybe you'll be entertained along
the way, And maybe that is the ultimate point, because
what makes life meaningful isn't that it lasts forever. It's
(08:36):
actually that it doesn't. And yet if the people were
right about to hear from our right, then death, well
it may not be the end. Maybe it's just the edge.
Maybe it's just a crease, if you will, and you
are already walking right up to it. For this it
(09:00):
is ITC Episode sixty six, and tonight we go where
the light begins. Let me take you to Seeattle. I know,
I know not of today. Let's go back to nineteen
ninety one, where Seattle was a little more fun to
be around. A cardiac surgeon named doctor Michael Saboom is
(09:22):
standing in the er staring at the flat line of
a woman who technically no longer exists. Her name is
Pam Reynolds. She's thirty five years old, a singer, vibrant,
also a mother, and right now her blood has begun
draining from her brain. She's in what is called a standstill,
(09:43):
a rare surgical state where body temperature is lowered to
about sixty degrees fahrenheit, the hardest stop. The brain sees
his electric electrical activity, and technically, clinically the patient is dead.
There are her ear plugs with speakers inside her ears
blasting clicks to monitor for any remaining brain cell response.
(10:06):
There are EEG monitors confirming silence. Pam is by all
modern medical definitions, not there. And then she comes back later,
after the surgery, after the recovery, she starts talking, not
about dream, not about a light one, not yet. She
(10:29):
describes the tools the doctors were using. She describes the
buzzing sounds of a surgical saw. She recounts conversations the
doctors had during the procedure verbatim, and then she starts
describing leaving her body, rising above it, seeing her skull opened, floating,
(10:51):
drifting toward a pinpoint of brilliant light. She describes deceased
relatives a tunnel, a noise that felt like being pulled up,
more like a vacuum hose in a sense, not a belief,
not a guess, but a certainty that she was somewhere
beyond the body. It plays more real than life itself. Now.
(11:16):
Pam Reynolds is one of the most documented near death
experience cases in modern medicine. Her brain activity was absolutely flat,
her eyes were taped shut, her ears filled with sound
monitoring plugs, and yet she came back with information she
could not have had, and stories that shuck her her
(11:37):
hardened skeptics. But she is one of thousands, and she
is where we begin, because to understand indes, we need
to do more than quote symptoms. We need to follow
the story a little more now. The term near death
(11:58):
experience was first coined in nineteen seventy five by psychiatrist
Raymond Moody in a groundbreaking book, Life After Life. Before that,
the stories were there, but no one had really given
them a name, or if they had, it was visions, miracles,
or delirium. Moody would end up changing that. In his research.
(12:19):
He interviewed over one hundred and fifty people who had
been clinically dead or near death from drowning, survivor's heart attack,
patient surgical cases, to those who had fallen into comas
and then returned, and he noticed something shocking. They were
saying all the same things. Now Here are the common
(12:43):
elements Moody would record, and that continue to surface inn
NDE research to this day. One A sense of peace, sudden,
profound calmness, even if the death was violent. Two, a
separation from the body floating above it, seeing the doctor's work,
(13:04):
watching their own resuscitation. Passing through a tunnel, often dark
at first, then lit at the end, then encountering a light,
not just a light, but often a being of light,
often associated with overwhelming love and presence. Sometimes they would
(13:30):
tell stories of a life review, where your entire life
played before you, sometimes from multiple points of view. They
would often report encounters with others, deceased family members, spiritual beings,
and ancestors unknown. There was often a border or a
(13:53):
decision point. Most likely it was a river, a gate,
or simply a feeling that if they go further there
was no return in that return sometimes voluntary was also.
Sometimes these very abrupt, and they would almost always report
(14:16):
after effects from spiritual awakenings to heightened empathy, and sometimes
even physical changes. But the most consistent descriptor across all
accounts it felt more real than real. Now. Pam was
(14:37):
just one, But let's meet a few more of the returned.
Case Number one the truck driver who floated above. In
two thousand and five, a man named James was driving
his rig through Tennessee when he had a massive heart
attack the truck with jackknife. Emergency teams arrived to find
him in full cardiac arrest. In the ambulance, James Hart
(15:01):
stops for over six minutes. Later, he describes with exacting detail,
watching the EMTs work on him from above the vehicle.
He recounts the logos on their gear bags, which he
couldn't have seen from the position in the cab itself.
He describes the paramedics dialogue before they even opened his door.
(15:22):
Then came the tunnel, the light, and the overwhelming feeling
that everything was okay, And, as he later would tell
a researcher, quote, I've never been the same. I used
to be scared to die. Now it's like I peeked
through the keyhole and I'm okay with what's on the
(15:45):
other side. Unquote. Now, not all indes come from adults.
In nineteen ninety seven, a six year old girl named
Rachel fell into a frozen lake in Wisconsin. She was
under water for twenty minutes before being pulled out. CPR
(16:09):
was performed for nearly thirty minutes. By all logic, she
should have died or at least suffered severe brain damage,
but she didn't. When she woke up, she said she
had been with the callers. She described seeing lights that
didn't have voices, but talked more in hugs. She said
(16:31):
a man, possibly her grandfather, held her hand and told
her she had to go back to help mommy smile again.
She also would make a full recovery years later, when
asked about it, she would simply say, I still dream
about that place, but it's not like dreaming, it's more
like remembering. Now. Not every near death expert comes with
(17:01):
religious overtones. Some defy all expectations. In twenty twelve, an
avowed atheist named doctor Evan Alexander, a Harvard trained neurosurgeon,
contracted a rare form of meningitis that destroyed his neocortex.
He was in a coma for seven days. Brain scans
(17:24):
showed no activity. Later, though, he described an astonishing journey.
A butterfly guided him through a sky of radiant music,
a core filled with light and presence, and there was
(17:44):
a message for him, You were loved. You have nothing
to fear. Now. He came back changed, not religious exactly,
but convinced that consciousness is not confined to the brain.
His book, Proof of Heaven would cause a media firestorm. Skeptics,
(18:07):
of course, accuse him of hallucinations, fantasies, and that ever
famous calling for anyone that goes through this, basically calling
them an attention seeking horror. But his scans, well, the
scans remain unexplained. Now these are all stories, antidotes, if
(18:31):
you will not necessarily clinical data, and in the world
of evidence based medicine, stories sometimes just aren't enough. But
what makes these stories different is their consistency and their clarity,
and more importantly, their transformative effect. In study after study,
MDE experiences are more likely to reported permanent loss of
(18:53):
fear of death, increase compassion in tolerance, decreased materialism, heightened spirit,
virtual awareness, and a long term personality change, and often
an inability to fully relate what they actually saw because,
as many would put it, there are no words for
(19:15):
what I saw. This language doesn't have the collars. So
what are we left with. Well, let's look at three
key threads that came out of these accounts. Radical perception.
This is a term used when someone accurately sees or
(19:35):
hears events while unconscious, events they should not be able
to perceive. It's not just oh, no, I saw a tunnel,
It's hey, I saw the nurse drop a metal tray
in the corner, which is kind of surprising when their
eyes were taped shut and they were under you know,
general anesthesia. Now, one famous case from the Netherlands evolve
(19:57):
the patient who described the fibrillator paddles us and the
collar of the ceiling tower after his heart had stopped
and would investigate it. Guess what the details checked out? Now.
Another thing is cultural universality. NDEs have been reported around
(20:18):
the world and cultures that don't share language, religion, or
even worldview. In India, people report being taken to the
god of death by mistake and then sent back, and
Japan the tunnel is often described as a river. In
the US, the light will often be associated with more
Christian themes, and in tribal societies, ancestors are animal spirits
(20:39):
tend to guide the person. But across these variations, the
structure is consistent. It's as if there is a basic
pattern and culture, well, the culture just bob rosses it
to what they know. And of course we have resistance
to medical dismissal. Modern science offers many theories to explain NDEs, hypoxia,
(21:07):
indogynous d MT release, ram intrusion, temporal lobe seizures, and
memory fabrication. Now on segment two upcoming, we're going to
examine all of them in a little bit more depth.
But for now know this. Many of the people who
study indes most rigorously, including skeptical doctors, have come away,
not with certainty, but with a dose of humility. So
(21:37):
let's start in segment two with a flat line, not
the metaphorical sense, not flat line vibes or you know,
your Monday morning moods, I mean an actual medical flat line.
Your heart stops, your brain goes dark, your eeg, that
electrical whisper of your mind goes as quiet as a
(22:02):
and in that silence something happens. You rise, you float,
you see a light, you encounter someone long dead, and
you remember it all and then bam, your body lurches
back to life. They fibrillated and debate it and gasping.
(22:25):
You tell the staff what they said while they were
working on you, what the nurses of course dropped in
that corner, and what song was playing on the overhead
speaker three rooms away. And of course the doctors, you know,
trained rational, skeptical doctors, they just more than often will smiley,
smile politely. But then when they leave the room they
whisper about it in the hallway because this wasn't supposed
(22:47):
to happen, and now now they have to explain it.
So let's do what real science does best. Break it down. Now, science,
real science loves mystery, but only if it can eventually,
(23:08):
you know, be labeled. So when near death experiences started
being reported in mass not just in you know the
whispered story, but in the hospitals and peer reviewed journals
on operating tables, scientists began building a list of possible explanations.
Each theory says, in one way or another, you didn't
go anywhere. Your brain just made it seem like you
(23:31):
did in some way that does make sense. Think about it.
Your brain is a storytelling machine. It hates, hates unfilled blanks,
It dreams, it hallucinates, It guesses your future, and mysterymembers
your past, all while convincing it's absolutely one hundred percent
(23:53):
nailing it. So why wouldn't it, in the moment of
death create something profound. Well, let's look at some of
the contenders theory, One, of course, is hypoxia. When the
body is dying, oxygen levels plummet, the brain, deprived of
(24:15):
oxygen begins to malfunction. This theory suggests that people experience
during NDEs is the result of this oxygen starvation and hypoxia.
And I can tell you, for effect, your brain has
deprived of oxygen in a hospital it is not a
fun experience. Symptoms will include tunnel vision, bright lights, confusion, euphoria,
(24:37):
out of body sensations, and vivid hallucinations. Sound familiar, well,
and I'm here to tell you yes, but it is
a nice little tidy fit. But there are are some
problems with this. One twenty ten study published in Critical
Care monitored oxygen levels and cardiac orest patients and found
(25:00):
no consistent correlation between low oxygen and reports of NDEs.
Some patients with profound hypoxia had zero experiences, while others
with stable oxygen levels reported full blown near death experiences. So,
in other words, hypoxia might explain some effects, but it
(25:23):
doesn't cover the full entire story, you know, especially the
part where patients accurately describe things that they shouldn't be
able to perceive. Theory two DMT and indogenous chemicals, And
(25:43):
now here's where things no other really good way to
say it. Here's where things get a little trippy. In
the last decade, researchers have explored the role of DMT
and I'm not even going to try to tell you
what that means. You can look it up and try
to pronounce it yourself, but it is lettered d as
in dog emmas and mary and tea as in thyroid.
(26:04):
Had the change that last one because you know. But
it is a powerful psychedelic compound found in certain plants
if you catch my meeting mister Frodo, and possibly produced
in small amounts in the human brain. It's also been
called the spirit molecule. When administered in clinical settings, DMT
(26:24):
can produce effects remarkably similar to near death experiences, tongue
like visions, encounters with beings or presences, loss of ego
or body boundary, feelings of overwhelming peace or transcendence, and
perception of another realm. Now, some scientists believe that the
dying brain may release a surge of DMT as a
(26:45):
protective or anti anti static measure, maybe a final neurochemical
bye bye party. So does that mean the case is
closed for this Well, not exactly, because there's no difference
definitive evidence that the human brain releases significant amounts of
DMT at death. Now, some rodent studies have hinted at
(27:08):
elevated DMT levels after cardiac arrest, but nothing conclusive has
been demonstrated thus far in humans. Now, again, DMT doesn't
explain the vertical perception. Yeah, you might see the tunnel,
you might meet the glowing light, but it doesn't explain
how you knew what color of the nurses scrubs were
when your eyes were taped cut Theory three RM intrusion.
(27:37):
Another popular theory is the ram intrusion. It's when the
brain's dreaming state rapid eye movement leaks into that walking life. Now,
it's been documented in sleep, paralysis, narcolepsy, and certain neurological conditions.
During ram intrusion, people can't experience out of body sensations,
(27:58):
vivid hallucinations, the feelings of paralysis, or even of floating
emotional intensity and time distortion. Now, the idea here is
that as the brain shuts down or is revived, it
sort of glitches and RAM like processes invade waking consciousness.
(28:19):
But again we run into problems here. Rim episodes are
typically associated well with active brains, but in the e cases,
many patients are clinically brain dead with no detectable EEG activity.
(28:40):
So that leads to a very important question, what would
be generating the RAM? And again, how do you explain
accurate observations external to the body. Theory four temporal lobe seizures.
(29:04):
The temporal lobe, the part of your brain just behind
your temples, is a hotspot for mystical and religious experiences.
Stimulation of this area has been shown the trigger out
of body sensations, hearing voices, feelings of a presence, flashbacks
or life reviews, and distorted perceptions of time. In fact,
(29:27):
the late neuroscientist doctor Michael Persinger developed a device called
the God Helmet, which used magnetic stimulation to induce such experiences.
Many users report sensing a divine presence or seeing visions.
The theory is at death abnormal electrical activity in the
temporal wombs could cause these effects. But once again, say
(29:50):
it with me. It doesn't explain verridical perception or why
only some people have these experiences during cardiac arrest others
do not, And when researchers tried replicating the persing or
results independently, the findings were inconsistent at best. So let's
(30:16):
zoom out for a second. All these theories have one
thing in common. They assume consciousness is a broaduct product
of the brain, that your thoughts, your identity, your experience
all emerge from neurons firing in the gray matter. So
if the brain stops, you stop, but indes, particularly the
(30:37):
verified perception, kind really do punch a hole in this model,
because people report clear, organized, meaningful consciousness during periods when
their brain is not functioning. Now, if true, this actually
suggests something extraordinary. That consciousness may not be a product
of the brain but a receiver of it, like a
(31:02):
radio or television. Break the device and you lose the signal,
but the signal itself may actually still exist. And I know,
I just blew your mind with that one. Now, this idea,
called non local consciousness, has been explored by thinkers from
quantum physicists to Buddhist monks. It is actually quite speculative.
(31:25):
It's controversial, but in the world of near death experiences,
it may be a necessity that we have to look at.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
In two thousand and eight, doctor Sam Parnier launched one
of the most ambitious projects in near death experience research,
and that was aware awareness during resuscitation. The idea was
quite simple, but actually very brilliant. If patients truly need
their bodies during ndees, they might be able to perceive
visual targets placed high up in operating rooms or emergency
(32:03):
base target's only visible from the ceiling. Over two thousand
cardiac arrest patients across fifteen hospitals were monitored, audio cues,
visual targets, and detailed interviews followed, and the results of
those who survived, only a small number reported near death experiences.
(32:27):
One patient in particular described floating above his body and
hearing the staff discuss his condition. Now, as with most
of the show that we've already talked about, here's a kicker.
His account matched precisely with the audio logs, including when
a machine made a noise three minutes after his heart
(32:48):
had stopped. His brain shouldn't have been functional, but somehow
he was recording memories. Cornella laid said, we have no
explanation for how this is possible. We just know it happened.
The aware to study, launched in twenty fourteen, is still
currently ongoing and it's refining its methods, adding EEG and
(33:12):
monitoring deeper neural markers. And that's said. Some of the results, well,
they're they're kind of intriguing. Now, look, it's easy to
get swept away. We have to address a real concern. Antidotes,
while amazing, aren't technically data at least not completely. Memories
(33:38):
are malleable, stories change in the telling, and false memories
are a thing. Skeptics like doctor Kevin Nelson argue that
all near death experienced features can be explained neurologically. The
cultural influences, suggestibility, and trauma shape the brain's dying frameworks.
(33:59):
They ask one, I don't all people have indes. Why
are some experiences terrifying while others are peaceful? Why do
people report contradictory visions from heaven to hell to nothingness?
And let's face it, these are fair questions, and in science,
the burden of proof lies on the extraordinary claim. But
(34:20):
here's the problem. There are enough well documented, peer reviewed
and repeatable patterns in indes that brushing them off feels
less like skepticism and more like absolute avoidance. As doctor
Peter Finwick, a neuropsychiatrist who has studied hundreds of indies,
(34:41):
once said, quote, the materialist model cannot explain what we
are seeing. And when a model can't explain the data,
we change the model unquote. So where does this leave us? Uhuh?
It kind of leaves us on that crease between brain
and mind, I mean, story and science. We don't have
(35:02):
proof of life after death. But we do have this.
People who shouldn't be conscious are people who experience these
events are changed forever, and science, when honest, must simply
admit we don't know. Now, that's not a failure. That
(35:28):
is science. That is the beginning of discovery. And with that,
let's take a brief three to four minute break here
as I get some refreshing drink filled into me and
go in the chat and say hi to everyone. I
(35:51):
appreciate you tuning in the night for episode sixty six
Near death Experiences in the Afterlife. We'll be back shortly.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I was walking wisely with the sunrising, my shade, every heart,
need everywhere sol from.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Notes.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Something changed, sudden fall, silent, that is shut still. A
heard a voice signed me cause him back in your
back by out of the time summer again. The star
(37:29):
was singing soft.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Like memories I never know storm, and yet I felt
more sing.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
More love, no pain, no time, no rever, just voices
long through their I couldn't feel also.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Try somewhere seeing the fresh and hot sound and falling
through it and waking inside saying me, sacking me troubling
since the sad.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
There was no fear, just light, no death, just returned.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I was never lost, just waiting to birth.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Clo say refreshold, you in my skin, the shadows behind me,
the morning begins.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Take me, take me, cholly.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Me, and welcome back Ope you. Everyone was able to
(39:58):
get a little bit of a repressure, or staying up
a little bit, or do something that they wanted to do.
In it was four minutes for segment three. I want
to take you somewhere a little less modern, a little
more ancient. Picture. This a desert tomb. The air is thick,
(40:21):
which incest incense, not incest, though that might happen to
Let me try that again. The air is thick with
incense and limestone dust. A priest and a leopard skin sash.
Chance softly reading from a Phia papyrus scroll. Ah, I
think I had too much beard in a break A
(40:43):
sacred text meant to guide the soul of the newly
dead through the underworld. This is Egypt's circa fifteen hundred PC.
In the scroll, that's the Book of the dead, a
guidebook for navigating what comes after your last breath. Among
its verses are scenes that would sound oddly familiar to
(41:05):
a cardiac arrest survivor. In Cleveland today, a journey through darkness,
encounters with divine beings, a weighing of the heart, and
a verdict that needs to be made. Return or continue now,
thousands of years before Raymond Moody, before EEG's and the fibulators,
(41:28):
the Egyptians were already describing near death experiences. Only back then,
we just called it the afterlife. And that, friends, is
the astonishing truth that we're exploring tonight. They don't just
belong to the modern world. They do show up across time,
(41:51):
cultural language, and belief systems with eerie, sometimes holy hell,
breathtaking consistency. Now, let's walk the long road together through
the myths, some rituals, and reports of civilizations that never
met that all seemed to ask the same question, what
(42:12):
happens when we die? And who may be waiting? Now?
An ancient Egyptian belief, When you died, your soul or
bah embarked on a perilous journey through the duat at
the realm of the dead, there were gates, guardians, and
(42:32):
even trials, And then came the Hall of Mott. There
your heart was weighed against a feather, the feather of truth.
Your heart was lighter you passed in the paradise, if
not a sort of weird chimera of crocodile, lion and
hippo named the mint ate your soul like a cosmic
(42:54):
garbage disposal machine. Now what's fascinating isn't theology, though that
is actually quite fascinating and something I might have to
explore in season five. It's more, though, the structure a journey,
a moral review, and a boundary that decides return or dissolution.
(43:18):
That sounds eerily similar to what near death experience reports
today indicate. Some even describe a judgment, but not like
a courtroom, but more like a mirror. They relived their lives,
not punished, but with an understanding. One woman in the
(43:40):
two thousand and seven studies said, quote, I felt to
every good and bad thing I had ever done, not
from my point of view, but from theirs. I cried
for who I had been. Quote as sure as hell
sounds like a hall of judgment to me, I'm just saying,
(44:02):
but it's not just Egypt. Let's fash go for a
little bit in time with a few millennia, and let's
head to the Himalayas and Tibetan Buddhism, death is not
a line. It's a process, a series of mental and
spiritual events unfolding over days, sometimes weeks.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
These are described in the Bard of Total that we
sometimes call the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It's read
aloud to the dying and recently dead, guiding their awareness
through their separation from body, a confrontation with peaceful and
wrathful deities, a life review, a sense of clarity or fear,
(44:46):
and a chance to choose liberation or rebirth. The key
phrase here quote, don't be afraid. What you see is
the projection of your own mind unquote. It's an instruction
and a lifeline for those lost in the storm of death.
Once again, compare that to modern NDE reports. Many describe
(45:11):
projection thoughts made real, memories playing like films, and reality
shaped by belief or emotion. One experience or described as
space where quote everything I thought became real instantly, joy
became color, fear became distance unquote. Sounds a little bartowish, right.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Let's turn a little bit north to where the hills
are frost covered, the battlefields are blood soaked, and the
mead halls echo with war songs. Now, let's face it,
the Norse were not subtle about death. You died in battle,
(46:01):
Odin's ravens carried you to Valhalla. Depending on which part
of Norse it might have been the Valkyries. But you
know what I mean. You died of sickness or old age.
You went to Helheim, the cold, gray underworld. But many
Viking sagas and Eda's we find warriors describing visions as
they lie dying. You would find stories of a bright hall,
(46:24):
of a shining figure on horseback, a bridge across a
great river, and the loved one calling from beyond. Once again,
the imagery, the imagery reeks a from familiar stories. In fact,
some Norse tech speaks of quote, seeing one's life flash
(46:45):
like fire in the sky, unquote before death. Now is
this simply a poetic metaphor or are they talking about
a very old near death experience. But we're not done.
Let's go to the American Southwest and the lands of
(47:09):
the Zuni people. It is believed that at death, the
soul crosses the river to reunite with their ancestors. In Australia,
the Aboriginal traditions that has ceased walk the song lines
which is spiritual tracks connecting land, memory and spirit. In
West Africa, the Euroba belief death is a return to Oran,
(47:32):
the realm of ancestors and gods, where the soul is
welcome to evaluate it and eventually reborn. Now only these
traditions are emphasizing a boundary between here and there, a
journey often guides, usually ancestors and were spirits, and a
potential return. I said one of the most common themes
(47:53):
in Indie East today. I met my grandmother, I saw
my child who died before me. There were people I
didn't know all of them, but they knew me. Now
these stories are highly universal. Now we meet, we expect
(48:14):
to meet the ancestors, and according to near death experienced
people that have gone through it, we seem to often
do now. In India, NDEs often include a uniquely bureaucratic twist.
Police report being taken or people sorry report being taken
by messengers of Yama, the god of death. They're brought
(48:38):
through a cosmic record keeper who realizes, oops, this may
be the wrong person, a clerical error, if you will.
Maybe it was just the wrong soul, and they're sent
back to life, sometimes with mornings or maybe new spiritual insights.
Sounds a little ridiculous, right, except it keeps happening, and
(49:00):
one large Indian study of five hundred near death experience individuals,
over sixty percent included some version of this wrong soul motif.
In many cases, the person was returned after arguing or pleading.
Now it may sound comic to know more Western ears,
(49:21):
but it reflects more of a deep qult believe in
karmic record keeping, divine order, and the possibility of air
even in death. Death. And you think the overlap between
modern near death experiences and the Abrahamic religious beliefs would
be a little bit tighter. But here's the twist. Twist.
(49:43):
Most Western Indies don't subscribe a traditional heaven or hell.
They describe the light that, the presence, the peace, the
love for the review, and the choice. Sometimes yes, Jesus
will show up. Sometimes it is angels. Rarely do people
say I saw Pearly Gates and Saint Peter with a clipboard.
Now that said, Hellish NDEs do occur, dark places, isolation, screaming,
(50:10):
but they're less common, and they often shift if the
experiencer calls out for help. One research uh individual noted
even among the de Valley Christian. Most Indies don't match
what they're told in Sunday School. There are more expari
uh experimental and experiential than doctrinel Now. In Islam, NDEs
(50:36):
sometimes involved the monk nar and the Knockar, the angels
who question the dead, and Christian mythicism. Saints will often appear,
and a new age circles beings of light without form.
What's interesting isn't the variation, it's the structure underneath. It's
basically the same house but with different furniture. So what
(50:59):
do we make of all of this? Well, let's map
it out a little bit across cultures, across eras, and
they tend to follow a core pattern. Now we're gonna
break it down the Egyptian, Tibetan, Norse, indigenous and modern.
Is there a journey or passage? Will all of them
have a yes? A guide or messenger? All of them
(51:21):
have a yes? Is there a light or divine presence?
While all of them but Egypt checks this box off?
Is there a life? Reviewed three of the five there's
some depending on which indigenous and which Norse culture don't
always guarantee a check mark. And is there a choice
or a return that is offered outside of Norse. All
(51:43):
of them check a box here. It's as if we're
all tapping into the same script but reading it with
a different accent. Now, of course, skeptics will say say
it's cultural contamination. People are just regurgitating what their belief
has primed them to see. But once again, as is
(52:04):
a bit of a theme on this show, there there
is a kicker to this. Some researchers of near death
experience have found children under the age of five with
no religious training to report the tunnel, the light, and
the beings. People from secular countries like Denmark, Japan, or
(52:27):
East Germany report the same elements, and in the pre
Internet era, many of these experiences match before people even
knew others even had them. So is culture shaping the
experience or are we just interpretating the same event through
(52:48):
the lenses of our culture. So let's get mossophical for
a moment. What if in dees are universal? What if
they're not just personal hallucinations but part of the human architecture.
(53:14):
Carl Jung would call them archetypes, deep psychic templates at
service at life's threshold. Joseph Campbell might call them the
hero's final journey, and jingitis Shamans call them soul journeys.
Modern mystics say it's the thinning of the veil, and neuroscientists, well,
they're still arguing. But here's what stands out. We typically
(53:36):
don't invent these patterns randomly. They are repeating, They are rhyming,
as if just maybe we've done this before. Now, look,
I'm not here to sell anyone a golden ticket to paradise,
(53:56):
but I do think it should strow something in you
that a Buddhist monk in Nepal, a warrior in Denmark,
and that trauma patient in New Jersey might all describe
the same door, and maybe, just maybe that door opens
(54:21):
both ways. So here we go. Let's say you were
to die flat line, lights out, brain, dark heart is
(54:45):
now still. Then, against all odds, you return. Your first
breath back feels like lightning. The beeping of the monitor
is louder than thunder, and the faces around you, the
ones with tears, with tubes with hope, they look different,
maybe a bit brighter, maybe a bit realer. You try
(55:08):
to explain what happened, what you saw, the words they
just slipped through your fingers, so you'll live. You're not
the same. Welcome to the aftershock of a near death experience.
Because whatever NDEs are neurological, metaphysical, spiritual, something else completely
(55:32):
entirely unknown, one thing seems absolutely universally true. They change
people in ways that ripple for decades, in ways that
don't fade. So tonight, as we close this journey, we
ask not what des are, but let's look at what
(55:57):
they mean and what we the still living and learn
from those who danced on that edge, on that crease,
and come back with the music still in their ears.
Now here's what studies show. Nd survivors report and overwhelming
numbers that their experiences were not just memorable, that they
(56:18):
were the most real moments of their entire life, not
like a dream, not even like a drug trip, more
real than walking life, vivid, unforgettable, indelible. And when they
come back something something chips could be, their need for
(56:40):
materialism drops, their fear of death decreases, often disappearing entirely.
They've danced with the devil and have come back to
talk about it. Compassion, empathy and spiritual curiosity increases. Priorities
reorganize and not just for a little, but in a
(57:02):
drastical way. A man who used to sell insurance quits
and becomes a hospice volunteer. A mother who nearly bled
out during childbirth starts restrating poetry and becomes a grief counselor.
A lifelong atheist becomes not religious but profoundly convinced that
life doesn't end with death. You can't call these necessarily
(57:27):
side effects. These are their transformations, and they're not always easy.
There is that burden of survival. Not everyone wakes up grateful.
For many, coming back is well, painful, disorienting. Sometimes the
(57:47):
world seems dull, distracted, shallow. People around you talk about
deadline phone bills and even fantasy football, and you're sitting
there wondering how the tell them you met your dead
grandfather in a field of singing light. Some NDE experiencers
(58:08):
do describe depression, agree not for what they lost, but
for what they left behind, a longing to return to
that place where everything made sense. Others experience sensitivity to light,
to emotion, to suffering. Sometimes the world now feels just
too loud and too cruel, and perhaps the worst part
(58:33):
of it, you find out no one, even those that
you thought loved you, believe you. You try to explain
what you saw during your own surgery from above, and
people they laugh at off of us. It was just
the meds. You say, you were floating in peace, and
someone laughs and says, so did you see Elvis two?
(58:59):
It can be lonely, I said. There are support groups now, therapists,
even the NDE researchers who specialize and re entry. But
still it's not always easy to come back change in
a world that hasn't. And now we go to that
(59:22):
part where I'm probably going to get kicked off of
my YouTube feed because unlike other people, I am going
to say the actual word, because fuck YouTube. We're gonna
tread carefully here, but we have to go here. One
of the most fascinating and sobering elements of indie research
involves suicide survivors. Multiple studies have shown that people who
(59:48):
attempt suicide and have a near death experience report overwhelmingly
similar experiences, often peaceful, often filled with light, but with
a very different, crucial twist. They returned with the understanding
that life still had meaning, that there was still purpose,
(01:00:10):
that the pain they felt was real, but it was temporary.
And that something waited for them, just not yet. These
survivors frequently become advocates, counselors, volunteers. Some change their entire
lives to help others struggling with depression or repair of despair.
(01:00:35):
They didn't just survive, they came back with a message,
You're not alone and it's not over. Now. We've talked
a lot about tunnels, lights, beings, and thresholds, but the
(01:00:56):
true power of NDEs may lie not in what sea,
but in what's chosen after. There's a quote from a
woman named Marlene, who died briefly during childbirth. Quote, I
was in this place where I could have stayed. It
just felt like love, like being home. But then I
(01:01:17):
remembered my baby, and I said not yet. I came
back and I haven't wasted a second since unquote. Or
from Carlos, who flat lined after a car accident quote,
I met a man made of light. He didn't speak,
(01:01:39):
but I knew he loved me. Then he asked, do
you want to go back? I said yes, because my
sister needed me. That was twenty five years ago. Every
day I think the light unquote. Now these people aren't saints,
They're not trying to start religion, sell some cryptocurrency. They're
(01:02:03):
just how do I say it? They're more awake, like
they've seen a bit behind the curtain and return to
the stage with the full weight of the story. So
what are we left with? We can't can't prove what
NDEs are. We can't bottle them, dissect them, replicate them
(01:02:25):
on demand. But we can listen and over and over.
Here is a message that seems to be you were loved,
You were not alone. What you do matters. Consciousness is
bigger than biology, and death is not the end, only
a transition. And even for those who believe NDEs are
(01:02:49):
just a brain's final firework show, there's something to be
said or that vision of peace at the end in
a world that seems full of fear at times, that
is not a small gift. But what about you? Let's
bring this home you, whether it's by the miracle miracle
(01:03:17):
doctor work at the University of Dartmouth Hospital that brings
you back. You're still alive. Your heart's pumping, your breath
is rising and falling, your temperature has gone from one
of five point nine down to a normal every day saying,
(01:03:37):
and now your brain is humming with thoughts after you've recovered.
But you won't always be, and neither will I. Someday
we'll cross that threshold, whether it's a tunnel, a river,
or simply the quiet shutting off of the body's lights. Maybe,
(01:03:59):
just maybe we'll remember this episode and will be a little,
a little less afraid. Because the people who've gone before us,
they say, the edge isn't the end, it's just the beginning.
And you know I've spent I've spent most of my
life chasing stories and in the recent years, trying to
tell them history, mystery, war, peace, ghost revolutions, legends, and
(01:04:25):
you name it. This one, this one cuts deeper because
of my recent experience, and because this story it includes
all of us, my friends, the people I haven't met,
the people and maybe have already gone, every age, every culture,
(01:04:51):
every creed, everyone that's able to hear this now, that's
on a couch or in a car, or just staring
underneath the stars. One day your light will extinguish, but maybe,
just maybe you'll also live again, and not in a
(01:05:11):
religious sense, not in a dogma, but in a sense
that your story isn't over. When your heart stops, it's over.
When your meaning stops. So upon final reflections, But do
(01:05:31):
Indie East teach us, well, I think less about death
and more about life. Maybe time to time we slow down,
we learn the cherish, maybe against our nature. Maybe we
learn to forgive a little bit faster, maybe to hold
(01:05:52):
eye contact a little longer, to love with more courage
to live, not as if will die, because if we
already know what's waiting and we want to bring some
of that light back with us, that could be the
real gift. Not knowing what comes after, but knowing what
(01:06:15):
to do before. So this has been itc Episode sixty
six Near death experiences in the afterlife. We walked through
tunnels of light, danced with some asient spirits, questioned our
(01:06:36):
own neurons, and started and stared into a place where
time goes silent. But we'll return, hopefully changed, and we
carry this with us until next time. My friends, hold
your breath like it's precious, hold your people like their borrow,
(01:06:59):
and hold your purpose like it might just be why
you came back. I'm j E double F and this
has been in increase. Thank you,
H the stresholds, step through past, present, future. We are
(00:29):
not all time.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
The time previously on in the grease, we stood among
(02:23):
the soldiers of Edge Hill, where muskets roared, ghosts marched,
and even the King's men came face to face with
the impossible. An entire battlefield caught in a loop, England's
first Great Civil War, echoing across time. A haunting, yes,
but not just a haunting of place, a haunting of meaning,
(02:44):
Because behind every phantom, every spectral footstep heard down a
moonlit corridor, isn't that the question that really lingers? Not
who's there? But where did they go? Well, tonight we're
gonna pull back that veil a little further, not to
(03:06):
chase shadows, not the catalog bumps in the night, but
to follow the stories of those who died and came
back to tell us what they saw. Welcome to itc
Episode sixty six, Near Death Experiences and the Afterlife. So
(03:26):
let me ask you something, maybe a little personal. Have you,
like myself, ever come so close to death that the
world changed shape? The callers maybe looked a little sharper,
people felt maybe a little kinder, and you, you were
suddenly tuned into something beyond words for you. Maybe it
(03:51):
was a car crash, a fall, a drowning, a moment
on an operating table, or maybe it wasn't your life
that stopped someone else's. Was it a parent, a friend,
a child, gone too fast, too soon, and just for
a second you felt them, Not metaphorically, not in your heart,
(04:16):
you felt them. Maybe just maybe you chalked it up
to grief, maybe you're still quite unsure, or maybe just
maybe that was the closest you've ever been to whatever
comes next. You're not alone. All over the world, across
centuries and cultures, people have described the same astonishing thing
(04:39):
that for a moment, whether after flatlining, falling into a coma,
or simply crossing some indefinable threshold, they left this world
and went somewhere else. It wasn't a dream or even
a metaphor, but a journey and encounter, a message, a
(05:00):
life review, a corridor of light, maybe a voice saying
it's not your time. These aren't ghost stories. These are
death stories with a bit of a twist ending. Now,
(05:21):
to be clear, this isn't some spiritualistic seance, and we're
not selling any sort of crystals or you know, promising
that everything floats toward a warm light. Hear it in thecrease.
You know the rules. We're gonna honor the mystery, but
we're also going to interrogate it a little bit. We're
(05:44):
gonna take a look at history, at neuroscience, a culture, poetry,
quantum mechanics, and sometimes just the raw human ache to
understand what happens when we die, Because let's be honest,
for all the progress we've made, I mean, let's face it,
we've walked on the moon, we've split the atom, we've
(06:06):
sequenced our own DNA, but we still can't answer the
one question every child eventually ask, what happens when I die? Well,
tonight we are going to examine the closest thing we
have to an answer. Near death experiences are indease as
(06:28):
you may heard them call now. They may be anecdotal,
but they are everywhere. Hundreds of thousands of people, cross continents, cultures,
and belief systems report startling similar experiences. A tunnel of light,
a sense of floating outside the body, seeing their own
surgery from above, the uniting with dead relatives, hearing the
(06:57):
music but not with your ears, the sudden feeling of
absolute and utter peace, and perhaps most eerily out of
the mall, feeling like it was more real than life itself.
And then they come back. The monitor beeps, the water
(07:22):
is coughed out, the paddles did indeed work, and they
are now changed, sometimes for the better, sometimes confused, almost
always with a story to tell that sounds more like
science fiction. But they will swear it happened. And many
(07:45):
would rather die again than say it was just a dream.
And a world obsessed with power and control, these stories well,
they kind of remind us of something terrifying and kind
of at the same time, perhaps we are not in control,
and maybe, just maybe that is okay. Now, before we
(08:11):
truly begin, let me say the following tonight's episode is
not about proving anything. You probably won't walk away with certainty.
You'll walk away as always with the maybe the mystery
sharpened the little bit, and maybe you'll be entertained along
the way, And maybe that is the ultimate point, because
what makes life meaningful isn't that it lasts forever. It's
(08:36):
actually that it doesn't. And yet if the people were
right about to hear from our right, then death, well
it may not be the end. Maybe it's just the edge.
Maybe it's just a crease, if you will, and you
are already walking right up to it. For this it
(09:00):
is ITC Episode sixty six, and tonight we go where
the light begins. Let me take you to Seeattle. I know,
I know not of today. Let's go back to nineteen
ninety one, where Seattle was a little more fun to
be around. A cardiac surgeon named doctor Michael Saboom is
(09:22):
standing in the er staring at the flat line of
a woman who technically no longer exists. Her name is
Pam Reynolds. She's thirty five years old, a singer, vibrant,
also a mother, and right now her blood has begun
draining from her brain. She's in what is called a standstill,
(09:43):
a rare surgical state where body temperature is lowered to
about sixty degrees fahrenheit, the hardest stop. The brain sees
his electric electrical activity, and technically, clinically the patient is dead.
There are her ear plugs with speakers inside her ears
blasting clicks to monitor for any remaining brain cell response.
(10:06):
There are EEG monitors confirming silence. Pam is by all
modern medical definitions, not there. And then she comes back later,
after the surgery, after the recovery, she starts talking, not
about dream, not about a light one, not yet. She
(10:29):
describes the tools the doctors were using. She describes the
buzzing sounds of a surgical saw. She recounts conversations the
doctors had during the procedure verbatim, and then she starts
describing leaving her body, rising above it, seeing her skull opened, floating,
(10:51):
drifting toward a pinpoint of brilliant light. She describes deceased
relatives a tunnel, a noise that felt like being pulled up,
more like a vacuum hose in a sense, not a belief,
not a guess, but a certainty that she was somewhere
beyond the body. It plays more real than life itself. Now.
(11:16):
Pam Reynolds is one of the most documented near death
experience cases in modern medicine. Her brain activity was absolutely flat,
her eyes were taped shut, her ears filled with sound
monitoring plugs, and yet she came back with information she
could not have had, and stories that shuck her her
(11:37):
hardened skeptics. But she is one of thousands, and she
is where we begin, because to understand indes, we need
to do more than quote symptoms. We need to follow
the story a little more now. The term near death
(11:58):
experience was first coined in nineteen seventy five by psychiatrist
Raymond Moody in a groundbreaking book, Life After Life. Before that,
the stories were there, but no one had really given
them a name, or if they had, it was visions, miracles,
or delirium. Moody would end up changing that. In his research.
(12:19):
He interviewed over one hundred and fifty people who had
been clinically dead or near death from drowning, survivor's heart attack,
patient surgical cases, to those who had fallen into comas
and then returned, and he noticed something shocking. They were
saying all the same things. Now Here are the common
(12:43):
elements Moody would record, and that continue to surface inn
NDE research to this day. One A sense of peace, sudden,
profound calmness, even if the death was violent. Two, a
separation from the body floating above it, seeing the doctor's work,
(13:04):
watching their own resuscitation. Passing through a tunnel, often dark
at first, then lit at the end, then encountering a light,
not just a light, but often a being of light,
often associated with overwhelming love and presence. Sometimes they would
(13:30):
tell stories of a life review, where your entire life
played before you, sometimes from multiple points of view. They
would often report encounters with others, deceased family members, spiritual beings,
and ancestors unknown. There was often a border or a
(13:53):
decision point. Most likely it was a river, a gate,
or simply a feeling that if they go further there
was no return in that return sometimes voluntary was also.
Sometimes these very abrupt, and they would almost always report
(14:16):
after effects from spiritual awakenings to heightened empathy, and sometimes
even physical changes. But the most consistent descriptor across all
accounts it felt more real than real. Now. Pam was
(14:37):
just one, But let's meet a few more of the returned.
Case Number one the truck driver who floated above. In
two thousand and five, a man named James was driving
his rig through Tennessee when he had a massive heart
attack the truck with jackknife. Emergency teams arrived to find
him in full cardiac arrest. In the ambulance, James Hart
(15:01):
stops for over six minutes. Later, he describes with exacting detail,
watching the EMTs work on him from above the vehicle.
He recounts the logos on their gear bags, which he
couldn't have seen from the position in the cab itself.
He describes the paramedics dialogue before they even opened his door.
(15:22):
Then came the tunnel, the light, and the overwhelming feeling
that everything was okay, And, as he later would tell
a researcher, quote, I've never been the same. I used
to be scared to die. Now it's like I peeked
through the keyhole and I'm okay with what's on the
(15:45):
other side. Unquote. Now, not all indes come from adults.
In nineteen ninety seven, a six year old girl named
Rachel fell into a frozen lake in Wisconsin. She was
under water for twenty minutes before being pulled out. CPR
(16:09):
was performed for nearly thirty minutes. By all logic, she
should have died or at least suffered severe brain damage,
but she didn't. When she woke up, she said she
had been with the callers. She described seeing lights that
didn't have voices, but talked more in hugs. She said
(16:31):
a man, possibly her grandfather, held her hand and told
her she had to go back to help mommy smile again.
She also would make a full recovery years later, when
asked about it, she would simply say, I still dream
about that place, but it's not like dreaming, it's more
like remembering. Now. Not every near death expert comes with
(17:01):
religious overtones. Some defy all expectations. In twenty twelve, an
avowed atheist named doctor Evan Alexander, a Harvard trained neurosurgeon,
contracted a rare form of meningitis that destroyed his neocortex.
He was in a coma for seven days. Brain scans
(17:24):
showed no activity. Later, though, he described an astonishing journey.
A butterfly guided him through a sky of radiant music,
a core filled with light and presence, and there was
(17:44):
a message for him, You were loved. You have nothing
to fear. Now. He came back changed, not religious exactly,
but convinced that consciousness is not confined to the brain.
His book, Proof of Heaven would cause a media firestorm. Skeptics,
(18:07):
of course, accuse him of hallucinations, fantasies, and that ever
famous calling for anyone that goes through this, basically calling
them an attention seeking horror. But his scans, well, the
scans remain unexplained. Now these are all stories, antidotes, if
(18:31):
you will not necessarily clinical data, and in the world
of evidence based medicine, stories sometimes just aren't enough. But
what makes these stories different is their consistency and their clarity,
and more importantly, their transformative effect. In study after study,
MDE experiences are more likely to reported permanent loss of
(18:53):
fear of death, increase compassion in tolerance, decreased materialism, heightened spirit,
virtual awareness, and a long term personality change, and often
an inability to fully relate what they actually saw because,
as many would put it, there are no words for
(19:15):
what I saw. This language doesn't have the collars. So
what are we left with. Well, let's look at three
key threads that came out of these accounts. Radical perception.
This is a term used when someone accurately sees or
(19:35):
hears events while unconscious, events they should not be able
to perceive. It's not just oh, no, I saw a tunnel,
It's hey, I saw the nurse drop a metal tray
in the corner, which is kind of surprising when their
eyes were taped shut and they were under you know,
general anesthesia. Now, one famous case from the Netherlands evolve
(19:57):
the patient who described the fibrillator paddles us and the
collar of the ceiling tower after his heart had stopped
and would investigate it. Guess what the details checked out? Now.
Another thing is cultural universality. NDEs have been reported around
(20:18):
the world and cultures that don't share language, religion, or
even worldview. In India, people report being taken to the
god of death by mistake and then sent back, and
Japan the tunnel is often described as a river. In
the US, the light will often be associated with more
Christian themes, and in tribal societies, ancestors are animal spirits
(20:39):
tend to guide the person. But across these variations, the
structure is consistent. It's as if there is a basic
pattern and culture, well, the culture just bob rosses it
to what they know. And of course we have resistance
to medical dismissal. Modern science offers many theories to explain NDEs, hypoxia,
(21:07):
indogynous d MT release, ram intrusion, temporal lobe seizures, and
memory fabrication. Now on segment two upcoming, we're going to
examine all of them in a little bit more depth.
But for now know this. Many of the people who
study indes most rigorously, including skeptical doctors, have come away,
not with certainty, but with a dose of humility. So
(21:37):
let's start in segment two with a flat line, not
the metaphorical sense, not flat line vibes or you know,
your Monday morning moods, I mean an actual medical flat line.
Your heart stops, your brain goes dark, your eeg, that
electrical whisper of your mind goes as quiet as a
(22:02):
and in that silence something happens. You rise, you float,
you see a light, you encounter someone long dead, and
you remember it all and then bam, your body lurches
back to life. They fibrillated and debate it and gasping.
(22:25):
You tell the staff what they said while they were
working on you, what the nurses of course dropped in
that corner, and what song was playing on the overhead
speaker three rooms away. And of course the doctors, you know,
trained rational, skeptical doctors, they just more than often will smiley,
smile politely. But then when they leave the room they
whisper about it in the hallway because this wasn't supposed
(22:47):
to happen, and now now they have to explain it.
So let's do what real science does best. Break it down. Now, science,
real science loves mystery, but only if it can eventually,
(23:08):
you know, be labeled. So when near death experiences started
being reported in mass not just in you know the
whispered story, but in the hospitals and peer reviewed journals
on operating tables, scientists began building a list of possible explanations.
Each theory says, in one way or another, you didn't
go anywhere. Your brain just made it seem like you
(23:31):
did in some way that does make sense. Think about it.
Your brain is a storytelling machine. It hates, hates unfilled blanks,
It dreams, it hallucinates, It guesses your future, and mysterymembers
your past, all while convincing it's absolutely one hundred percent
(23:53):
nailing it. So why wouldn't it, in the moment of
death create something profound. Well, let's look at some of
the contenders theory, One, of course, is hypoxia. When the
body is dying, oxygen levels plummet, the brain, deprived of
(24:15):
oxygen begins to malfunction. This theory suggests that people experience
during NDEs is the result of this oxygen starvation and hypoxia.
And I can tell you, for effect, your brain has
deprived of oxygen in a hospital it is not a
fun experience. Symptoms will include tunnel vision, bright lights, confusion, euphoria,
(24:37):
out of body sensations, and vivid hallucinations. Sound familiar, well,
and I'm here to tell you yes, but it is
a nice little tidy fit. But there are are some
problems with this. One twenty ten study published in Critical
Care monitored oxygen levels and cardiac orest patients and found
(25:00):
no consistent correlation between low oxygen and reports of NDEs.
Some patients with profound hypoxia had zero experiences, while others
with stable oxygen levels reported full blown near death experiences. So,
in other words, hypoxia might explain some effects, but it
(25:23):
doesn't cover the full entire story, you know, especially the
part where patients accurately describe things that they shouldn't be
able to perceive. Theory two DMT and indogenous chemicals, And
(25:43):
now here's where things no other really good way to
say it. Here's where things get a little trippy. In
the last decade, researchers have explored the role of DMT
and I'm not even going to try to tell you
what that means. You can look it up and try
to pronounce it yourself, but it is lettered d as
in dog emmas and mary and tea as in thyroid.
(26:04):
Had the change that last one because you know. But
it is a powerful psychedelic compound found in certain plants
if you catch my meeting mister Frodo, and possibly produced
in small amounts in the human brain. It's also been
called the spirit molecule. When administered in clinical settings, DMT
(26:24):
can produce effects remarkably similar to near death experiences, tongue
like visions, encounters with beings or presences, loss of ego
or body boundary, feelings of overwhelming peace or transcendence, and
perception of another realm. Now, some scientists believe that the
dying brain may release a surge of DMT as a
(26:45):
protective or anti anti static measure, maybe a final neurochemical
bye bye party. So does that mean the case is
closed for this Well, not exactly, because there's no difference
definitive evidence that the human brain releases significant amounts of
DMT at death. Now, some rodent studies have hinted at
(27:08):
elevated DMT levels after cardiac arrest, but nothing conclusive has
been demonstrated thus far in humans. Now, again, DMT doesn't
explain the vertical perception. Yeah, you might see the tunnel,
you might meet the glowing light, but it doesn't explain
how you knew what color of the nurses scrubs were
when your eyes were taped cut Theory three RM intrusion.
(27:37):
Another popular theory is the ram intrusion. It's when the
brain's dreaming state rapid eye movement leaks into that walking life. Now,
it's been documented in sleep, paralysis, narcolepsy, and certain neurological conditions.
During ram intrusion, people can't experience out of body sensations,
(27:58):
vivid hallucinations, the feelings of paralysis, or even of floating
emotional intensity and time distortion. Now, the idea here is
that as the brain shuts down or is revived, it
sort of glitches and RAM like processes invade waking consciousness.
(28:19):
But again we run into problems here. Rim episodes are
typically associated well with active brains, but in the e cases,
many patients are clinically brain dead with no detectable EEG activity.
(28:40):
So that leads to a very important question, what would
be generating the RAM? And again, how do you explain
accurate observations external to the body. Theory four temporal lobe seizures.
(29:04):
The temporal lobe, the part of your brain just behind
your temples, is a hotspot for mystical and religious experiences.
Stimulation of this area has been shown the trigger out
of body sensations, hearing voices, feelings of a presence, flashbacks
or life reviews, and distorted perceptions of time. In fact,
(29:27):
the late neuroscientist doctor Michael Persinger developed a device called
the God Helmet, which used magnetic stimulation to induce such experiences.
Many users report sensing a divine presence or seeing visions.
The theory is at death abnormal electrical activity in the
temporal wombs could cause these effects. But once again, say
(29:50):
it with me. It doesn't explain verridical perception or why
only some people have these experiences during cardiac arrest others
do not, And when researchers tried replicating the persing or
results independently, the findings were inconsistent at best. So let's
(30:16):
zoom out for a second. All these theories have one
thing in common. They assume consciousness is a broaduct product
of the brain, that your thoughts, your identity, your experience
all emerge from neurons firing in the gray matter. So
if the brain stops, you stop, but indes, particularly the
(30:37):
verified perception, kind really do punch a hole in this model,
because people report clear, organized, meaningful consciousness during periods when
their brain is not functioning. Now, if true, this actually
suggests something extraordinary. That consciousness may not be a product
of the brain but a receiver of it, like a
(31:02):
radio or television. Break the device and you lose the signal,
but the signal itself may actually still exist. And I know,
I just blew your mind with that one. Now, this idea,
called non local consciousness, has been explored by thinkers from
quantum physicists to Buddhist monks. It is actually quite speculative.
(31:25):
It's controversial, but in the world of near death experiences,
it may be a necessity that we have to look at.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Now.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
In two thousand and eight, doctor Sam Parnier launched one
of the most ambitious projects in near death experience research,
and that was aware awareness during resuscitation. The idea was
quite simple, but actually very brilliant. If patients truly need
their bodies during ndees, they might be able to perceive
visual targets placed high up in operating rooms or emergency
(32:03):
base target's only visible from the ceiling. Over two thousand
cardiac arrest patients across fifteen hospitals were monitored, audio cues,
visual targets, and detailed interviews followed, and the results of
those who survived, only a small number reported near death experiences.
(32:27):
One patient in particular described floating above his body and
hearing the staff discuss his condition. Now, as with most
of the show that we've already talked about, here's a kicker.
His account matched precisely with the audio logs, including when
a machine made a noise three minutes after his heart
(32:48):
had stopped. His brain shouldn't have been functional, but somehow
he was recording memories. Cornella laid said, we have no
explanation for how this is possible. We just know it happened.
The aware to study, launched in twenty fourteen, is still
currently ongoing and it's refining its methods, adding EEG and
(33:12):
monitoring deeper neural markers. And that's said. Some of the results, well,
they're they're kind of intriguing. Now, look, it's easy to
get swept away. We have to address a real concern. Antidotes,
while amazing, aren't technically data at least not completely. Memories
(33:38):
are malleable, stories change in the telling, and false memories
are a thing. Skeptics like doctor Kevin Nelson argue that
all near death experienced features can be explained neurologically. The
cultural influences, suggestibility, and trauma shape the brain's dying frameworks.
(33:59):
They ask one, I don't all people have indes. Why
are some experiences terrifying while others are peaceful? Why do
people report contradictory visions from heaven to hell to nothingness?
And let's face it, these are fair questions, and in science,
the burden of proof lies on the extraordinary claim. But
(34:20):
here's the problem. There are enough well documented, peer reviewed
and repeatable patterns in indes that brushing them off feels
less like skepticism and more like absolute avoidance. As doctor
Peter Finwick, a neuropsychiatrist who has studied hundreds of indies,
(34:41):
once said, quote, the materialist model cannot explain what we
are seeing. And when a model can't explain the data,
we change the model unquote. So where does this leave us? Uhuh?
It kind of leaves us on that crease between brain
and mind, I mean, story and science. We don't have
(35:02):
proof of life after death. But we do have this.
People who shouldn't be conscious are people who experience these
events are changed forever, and science, when honest, must simply
admit we don't know. Now, that's not a failure. That
(35:28):
is science. That is the beginning of discovery. And with that,
let's take a brief three to four minute break here
as I get some refreshing drink filled into me and
go in the chat and say hi to everyone. I
(35:51):
appreciate you tuning in the night for episode sixty six
Near death Experiences in the Afterlife. We'll be back shortly.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I was walking wisely with the sunrising, my shade, every heart,
need everywhere sol from.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Notes.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
Something changed, sudden fall, silent, that is shut still. A
heard a voice signed me cause him back in your
back by out of the time summer again. The star
(37:29):
was singing soft.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Like memories I never know storm, and yet I felt
more sing.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
More love, no pain, no time, no rever, just voices
long through their I couldn't feel also.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Try somewhere seeing the fresh and hot sound and falling
through it and waking inside saying me, sacking me troubling
since the sad.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
There was no fear, just light, no death, just returned.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
I was never lost, just waiting to birth.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Clo say refreshold, you in my skin, the shadows behind me,
the morning begins.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Take me, take me, cholly.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Me, and welcome back Ope you. Everyone was able to
(39:58):
get a little bit of a repressure, or staying up
a little bit, or do something that they wanted to do.
In it was four minutes for segment three. I want
to take you somewhere a little less modern, a little
more ancient. Picture. This a desert tomb. The air is thick,
(40:21):
which incest incense, not incest, though that might happen to
Let me try that again. The air is thick with
incense and limestone dust. A priest and a leopard skin sash.
Chance softly reading from a Phia papyrus scroll. Ah, I
think I had too much beard in a break A
(40:43):
sacred text meant to guide the soul of the newly
dead through the underworld. This is Egypt's circa fifteen hundred PC.
In the scroll, that's the Book of the dead, a
guidebook for navigating what comes after your last breath. Among
its verses are scenes that would sound oddly familiar to
(41:05):
a cardiac arrest survivor. In Cleveland today, a journey through darkness,
encounters with divine beings, a weighing of the heart, and
a verdict that needs to be made. Return or continue now,
thousands of years before Raymond Moody, before EEG's and the fibulators,
(41:28):
the Egyptians were already describing near death experiences. Only back then,
we just called it the afterlife. And that, friends, is
the astonishing truth that we're exploring tonight. They don't just
belong to the modern world. They do show up across time,
(41:51):
cultural language, and belief systems with eerie, sometimes holy hell,
breathtaking consistency. Now, let's walk the long road together through
the myths, some rituals, and reports of civilizations that never
met that all seemed to ask the same question, what
(42:12):
happens when we die? And who may be waiting? Now?
An ancient Egyptian belief, When you died, your soul or
bah embarked on a perilous journey through the duat at
the realm of the dead, there were gates, guardians, and
(42:32):
even trials, And then came the Hall of Mott. There
your heart was weighed against a feather, the feather of truth.
Your heart was lighter you passed in the paradise, if
not a sort of weird chimera of crocodile, lion and
hippo named the mint ate your soul like a cosmic
(42:54):
garbage disposal machine. Now what's fascinating isn't theology, though that
is actually quite fascinating and something I might have to
explore in season five. It's more, though, the structure a journey,
a moral review, and a boundary that decides return or dissolution.
(43:18):
That sounds eerily similar to what near death experience reports
today indicate. Some even describe a judgment, but not like
a courtroom, but more like a mirror. They relived their lives,
not punished, but with an understanding. One woman in the
(43:40):
two thousand and seven studies said, quote, I felt to
every good and bad thing I had ever done, not
from my point of view, but from theirs. I cried
for who I had been. Quote as sure as hell
sounds like a hall of judgment to me, I'm just saying,
(44:02):
but it's not just Egypt. Let's fash go for a
little bit in time with a few millennia, and let's
head to the Himalayas and Tibetan Buddhism, death is not
a line. It's a process, a series of mental and
spiritual events unfolding over days, sometimes weeks.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Now.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
These are described in the Bard of Total that we
sometimes call the Tibetan Book of the Dead. It's read
aloud to the dying and recently dead, guiding their awareness
through their separation from body, a confrontation with peaceful and
wrathful deities, a life review, a sense of clarity or fear,
(44:46):
and a chance to choose liberation or rebirth. The key
phrase here quote, don't be afraid. What you see is
the projection of your own mind unquote. It's an instruction
and a lifeline for those lost in the storm of death.
Once again, compare that to modern NDE reports. Many describe
(45:11):
projection thoughts made real, memories playing like films, and reality
shaped by belief or emotion. One experience or described as
space where quote everything I thought became real instantly, joy
became color, fear became distance unquote. Sounds a little bartowish, right.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Now.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Let's turn a little bit north to where the hills
are frost covered, the battlefields are blood soaked, and the
mead halls echo with war songs. Now, let's face it,
the Norse were not subtle about death. You died in battle,
(46:01):
Odin's ravens carried you to Valhalla. Depending on which part
of Norse it might have been the Valkyries. But you
know what I mean. You died of sickness or old age.
You went to Helheim, the cold, gray underworld. But many
Viking sagas and Eda's we find warriors describing visions as
they lie dying. You would find stories of a bright hall,
(46:24):
of a shining figure on horseback, a bridge across a
great river, and the loved one calling from beyond. Once again,
the imagery, the imagery reeks a from familiar stories. In fact,
some Norse tech speaks of quote, seeing one's life flash
(46:45):
like fire in the sky, unquote before death. Now is
this simply a poetic metaphor or are they talking about
a very old near death experience. But we're not done.
Let's go to the American Southwest and the lands of
(47:09):
the Zuni people. It is believed that at death, the
soul crosses the river to reunite with their ancestors. In Australia,
the Aboriginal traditions that has ceased walk the song lines
which is spiritual tracks connecting land, memory and spirit. In
West Africa, the Euroba belief death is a return to Oran,
(47:32):
the realm of ancestors and gods, where the soul is
welcome to evaluate it and eventually reborn. Now only these
traditions are emphasizing a boundary between here and there, a
journey often guides, usually ancestors and were spirits, and a
potential return. I said one of the most common themes
(47:53):
in Indie East today. I met my grandmother, I saw
my child who died before me. There were people I
didn't know all of them, but they knew me. Now
these stories are highly universal. Now we meet, we expect
(48:14):
to meet the ancestors, and according to near death experienced
people that have gone through it, we seem to often
do now. In India, NDEs often include a uniquely bureaucratic twist.
Police report being taken or people sorry report being taken
by messengers of Yama, the god of death. They're brought
(48:38):
through a cosmic record keeper who realizes, oops, this may
be the wrong person, a clerical error, if you will.
Maybe it was just the wrong soul, and they're sent
back to life, sometimes with mornings or maybe new spiritual insights.
Sounds a little ridiculous, right, except it keeps happening, and
(49:00):
one large Indian study of five hundred near death experience individuals,
over sixty percent included some version of this wrong soul motif.
In many cases, the person was returned after arguing or pleading.
Now it may sound comic to know more Western ears,
(49:21):
but it reflects more of a deep qult believe in
karmic record keeping, divine order, and the possibility of air
even in death. Death. And you think the overlap between
modern near death experiences and the Abrahamic religious beliefs would
be a little bit tighter. But here's the twist. Twist.
(49:43):
Most Western Indies don't subscribe a traditional heaven or hell.
They describe the light that, the presence, the peace, the
love for the review, and the choice. Sometimes yes, Jesus
will show up. Sometimes it is angels. Rarely do people
say I saw Pearly Gates and Saint Peter with a clipboard.
Now that said, Hellish NDEs do occur, dark places, isolation, screaming,
(50:10):
but they're less common, and they often shift if the
experiencer calls out for help. One research uh individual noted
even among the de Valley Christian. Most Indies don't match
what they're told in Sunday School. There are more expari
uh experimental and experiential than doctrinel Now. In Islam, NDEs
(50:36):
sometimes involved the monk nar and the Knockar, the angels
who question the dead, and Christian mythicism. Saints will often appear,
and a new age circles beings of light without form.
What's interesting isn't the variation, it's the structure underneath. It's
basically the same house but with different furniture. So what
(50:59):
do we make of all of this? Well, let's map
it out a little bit across cultures, across eras, and
they tend to follow a core pattern. Now we're gonna
break it down the Egyptian, Tibetan, Norse, indigenous and modern.
Is there a journey or passage? Will all of them
have a yes? A guide or messenger? All of them
(51:21):
have a yes? Is there a light or divine presence?
While all of them but Egypt checks this box off?
Is there a life? Reviewed three of the five there's
some depending on which indigenous and which Norse culture don't
always guarantee a check mark. And is there a choice
or a return that is offered outside of Norse. All
(51:43):
of them check a box here. It's as if we're
all tapping into the same script but reading it with
a different accent. Now, of course, skeptics will say say
it's cultural contamination. People are just regurgitating what their belief
has primed them to see. But once again, as is
(52:04):
a bit of a theme on this show, there there
is a kicker to this. Some researchers of near death
experience have found children under the age of five with
no religious training to report the tunnel, the light, and
the beings. People from secular countries like Denmark, Japan, or
(52:27):
East Germany report the same elements, and in the pre
Internet era, many of these experiences match before people even
knew others even had them. So is culture shaping the
experience or are we just interpretating the same event through
(52:48):
the lenses of our culture. So let's get mossophical for
a moment. What if in dees are universal? What if
they're not just personal hallucinations but part of the human architecture.
(53:14):
Carl Jung would call them archetypes, deep psychic templates at
service at life's threshold. Joseph Campbell might call them the
hero's final journey, and jingitis Shamans call them soul journeys.
Modern mystics say it's the thinning of the veil, and neuroscientists, well,
they're still arguing. But here's what stands out. We typically
(53:36):
don't invent these patterns randomly. They are repeating, They are rhyming,
as if just maybe we've done this before. Now, look,
I'm not here to sell anyone a golden ticket to paradise,
(53:56):
but I do think it should strow something in you
that a Buddhist monk in Nepal, a warrior in Denmark,
and that trauma patient in New Jersey might all describe
the same door, and maybe, just maybe that door opens
(54:21):
both ways. So here we go. Let's say you were
to die flat line, lights out, brain, dark heart is
(54:45):
now still. Then, against all odds, you return. Your first
breath back feels like lightning. The beeping of the monitor
is louder than thunder, and the faces around you, the
ones with tears, with tubes with hope, they look different,
maybe a bit brighter, maybe a bit realer. You try
(55:08):
to explain what happened, what you saw, the words they
just slipped through your fingers, so you'll live. You're not
the same. Welcome to the aftershock of a near death experience.
Because whatever NDEs are neurological, metaphysical, spiritual, something else completely
(55:32):
entirely unknown, one thing seems absolutely universally true. They change
people in ways that ripple for decades, in ways that
don't fade. So tonight, as we close this journey, we
ask not what des are, but let's look at what
(55:57):
they mean and what we the still living and learn
from those who danced on that edge, on that crease,
and come back with the music still in their ears.
Now here's what studies show. Nd survivors report and overwhelming
numbers that their experiences were not just memorable, that they
(56:18):
were the most real moments of their entire life, not
like a dream, not even like a drug trip, more
real than walking life, vivid, unforgettable, indelible. And when they
come back something something chips could be, their need for
(56:40):
materialism drops, their fear of death decreases, often disappearing entirely.
They've danced with the devil and have come back to
talk about it. Compassion, empathy and spiritual curiosity increases. Priorities
reorganize and not just for a little, but in a
(57:02):
drastical way. A man who used to sell insurance quits
and becomes a hospice volunteer. A mother who nearly bled
out during childbirth starts restrating poetry and becomes a grief counselor.
A lifelong atheist becomes not religious but profoundly convinced that
life doesn't end with death. You can't call these necessarily
(57:27):
side effects. These are their transformations, and they're not always easy.
There is that burden of survival. Not everyone wakes up grateful.
For many, coming back is well, painful, disorienting. Sometimes the
(57:47):
world seems dull, distracted, shallow. People around you talk about
deadline phone bills and even fantasy football, and you're sitting
there wondering how the tell them you met your dead
grandfather in a field of singing light. Some NDE experiencers
(58:08):
do describe depression, agree not for what they lost, but
for what they left behind, a longing to return to
that place where everything made sense. Others experience sensitivity to light,
to emotion, to suffering. Sometimes the world now feels just
too loud and too cruel, and perhaps the worst part
(58:33):
of it, you find out no one, even those that
you thought loved you, believe you. You try to explain
what you saw during your own surgery from above, and
people they laugh at off of us. It was just
the meds. You say, you were floating in peace, and
someone laughs and says, so did you see Elvis two?
(58:59):
It can be lonely, I said. There are support groups now, therapists,
even the NDE researchers who specialize and re entry. But
still it's not always easy to come back change in
a world that hasn't. And now we go to that
(59:22):
part where I'm probably going to get kicked off of
my YouTube feed because unlike other people, I am going
to say the actual word, because fuck YouTube. We're gonna
tread carefully here, but we have to go here. One
of the most fascinating and sobering elements of indie research
involves suicide survivors. Multiple studies have shown that people who
(59:48):
attempt suicide and have a near death experience report overwhelmingly
similar experiences, often peaceful, often filled with light, but with
a very different, crucial twist. They returned with the understanding
that life still had meaning, that there was still purpose,
(01:00:10):
that the pain they felt was real, but it was temporary.
And that something waited for them, just not yet. These
survivors frequently become advocates, counselors, volunteers. Some change their entire
lives to help others struggling with depression or repair of despair.
(01:00:35):
They didn't just survive, they came back with a message,
You're not alone and it's not over. Now. We've talked
a lot about tunnels, lights, beings, and thresholds, but the
(01:00:56):
true power of NDEs may lie not in what sea,
but in what's chosen after. There's a quote from a
woman named Marlene, who died briefly during childbirth. Quote, I
was in this place where I could have stayed. It
just felt like love, like being home. But then I
(01:01:17):
remembered my baby, and I said not yet. I came
back and I haven't wasted a second since unquote. Or
from Carlos, who flat lined after a car accident quote,
I met a man made of light. He didn't speak,
(01:01:39):
but I knew he loved me. Then he asked, do
you want to go back? I said yes, because my
sister needed me. That was twenty five years ago. Every
day I think the light unquote. Now these people aren't saints,
They're not trying to start religion, sell some cryptocurrency. They're
(01:02:03):
just how do I say it? They're more awake, like
they've seen a bit behind the curtain and return to
the stage with the full weight of the story. So
what are we left with? We can't can't prove what
NDEs are. We can't bottle them, dissect them, replicate them
(01:02:25):
on demand. But we can listen and over and over.
Here is a message that seems to be you were loved,
You were not alone. What you do matters. Consciousness is
bigger than biology, and death is not the end, only
a transition. And even for those who believe NDEs are
(01:02:49):
just a brain's final firework show, there's something to be
said or that vision of peace at the end in
a world that seems full of fear at times, that
is not a small gift. But what about you? Let's
bring this home you, whether it's by the miracle miracle
(01:03:17):
doctor work at the University of Dartmouth Hospital that brings
you back. You're still alive. Your heart's pumping, your breath
is rising and falling, your temperature has gone from one
of five point nine down to a normal every day saying,
(01:03:37):
and now your brain is humming with thoughts after you've recovered.
But you won't always be, and neither will I. Someday
we'll cross that threshold, whether it's a tunnel, a river,
or simply the quiet shutting off of the body's lights. Maybe,
(01:03:59):
just maybe we'll remember this episode and will be a little,
a little less afraid. Because the people who've gone before us,
they say, the edge isn't the end, it's just the beginning.
And you know I've spent I've spent most of my
life chasing stories and in the recent years, trying to
tell them history, mystery, war, peace, ghost revolutions, legends, and
(01:04:25):
you name it. This one, this one cuts deeper because
of my recent experience, and because this story it includes
all of us, my friends, the people I haven't met,
the people and maybe have already gone, every age, every culture,
(01:04:51):
every creed, everyone that's able to hear this now, that's
on a couch or in a car, or just staring
underneath the stars. One day your light will extinguish, but maybe,
just maybe you'll also live again, and not in a
(01:05:11):
religious sense, not in a dogma, but in a sense
that your story isn't over. When your heart stops, it's over.
When your meaning stops. So upon final reflections, But do
(01:05:31):
Indie East teach us, well, I think less about death
and more about life. Maybe time to time we slow down,
we learn the cherish, maybe against our nature. Maybe we
learn to forgive a little bit faster, maybe to hold
(01:05:52):
eye contact a little longer, to love with more courage
to live, not as if will die, because if we
already know what's waiting and we want to bring some
of that light back with us, that could be the
real gift. Not knowing what comes after, but knowing what
(01:06:15):
to do before. So this has been itc Episode sixty
six Near death experiences in the afterlife. We walked through
tunnels of light, danced with some asient spirits, questioned our
(01:06:36):
own neurons, and started and stared into a place where
time goes silent. But we'll return, hopefully changed, and we
carry this with us until next time. My friends, hold
your breath like it's precious, hold your people like their borrow,
(01:06:59):
and hold your purpose like it might just be why
you came back. I'm j E double F and this
has been in increase. Thank you,
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