Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Crowds got clouds.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
She don't smoke in the tail window folding down when
the cans out the streets, taking no hood of the.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Town and the windows day ain't.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
God clue weed the window.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Let us make him move. Turn out, brack, that's.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
How we ride by our crowd.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
We can't beat him.
Speaker 5 (00:33):
Dick in the turn south, be holy town. We don't
let us in every town.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
We gray baby, were grating sound. Turn down rout, that's
how we keep down.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Oh dude, you shot him in the deck. Huh, that's
not cool. If you don't shoot a guy in.
Speaker 6 (01:01):
The dick butters, will you ever learn? Who knows? But
we do know that you're a fan of us because
you're here and you're active. You're very active night Wing.
You're already here. You're already saying yo, yo yo, how
goes at night Wing? Thank you from joining us from
across the seas and fans you have joined the show.
(01:21):
It is I Joshua Joseph the Voice here for a
Monday night raw preview review show which already happened. I
already had it. And you guys know us. If you're
a fan of OZ, you know this. But if you're
new to us. You're gonna learn this because we have
(01:41):
another crew. It's the Raw Deal or wait yeah, Raw
Deal with House O'Neill, Raw Deal with House and O'Neill
on Wednesdays with our boss House and Annie O'Neil, So
they cover Raw. They do a great job. We have
a bit of a freedom month, so we are going
to take advantage of it and cover a lot of
(02:03):
stories that you don't normally hear. And again I'm here
with my friends, my co host, the guys who keep
the show going. It is the Chaos Goblin himself, Kevin
Callaway and the blue eyed villain Grundmeister. How goes it? Fellas?
How are you doing and how was your week?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
You know it wasn't bad.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I mean I got I was agenting out at Divine
pro on Saturday. That show was great, excellent crowd. The
it's an all women's promotion and the women all there
killed it.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I was able to. Uh.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
They're great at taking direction, They're great at applying anything
that they need. Like, I can't put it over enough.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Yeah, I seen your post and you you seem like
a proud papa.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
I don't get to. Uh, well, I don't usually post those.
I guess I don't. It's not that I don't get to,
because I give those moments to people, usually very privately,
but because it was so it was so over expanding
to like the whole roster, that it was just like, well,
this will be easier, hopefully they all see it.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
Very true, very true, grun. How have you been since
the last twenty four hours since I've seen your ass?
Speaker 7 (03:14):
Well, the last twenty four hours have been good for
those who are where last This past Thursday night, went
to a mixer for singles twenties and thirties in Philadelphia.
I thought it went well, man, A nice lady.
Speaker 6 (03:27):
Who nice Philly lady that I mean, more like a
tic tac. But run Off wasn't even going with.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Was going with our trade. I was going with the
I just wanted to hear more as it evolved.
Speaker 7 (03:49):
Damn well, we'll see how it We'll see how it evolved.
It's been a few days since I've heard from her.
But I mean, it works now where if it doesn't,
it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Life goes on, Yes, and ladies are busy these days.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (04:06):
When I was growing up and they just waited for you, Yeah, No,
they got, they got lives. They really didn't wait for you.
I'm just being a nuts Okay. So if there's any
ladies out there, don't think I generalize you all into
a waiting for us to call. But Grun, I am
super stoked about that information. And plus you, that's you're
(04:29):
doing it. You're doing the thing. So you're getting out there,
You're shaking hands and kissing babies and becoming a politician. No, no,
you're not doing it.
Speaker 7 (04:39):
Please run, yeah, run fast, Philly.
Speaker 6 (04:43):
If Grun starts running, I don't.
Speaker 7 (04:46):
I don't think I can fix Philly.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
Oh my gosh. I love this crew. So guys, we
got to talk about it. It's been a thing. We
discussed it on the Sunday House party, so you guys
got me and Grun's opinions on it. But we did
have somebody reach out into the chat and they said
they cannot wait to hear Kevin Callaway himself talk about
(05:12):
this incident. So Kevin, I'm going to allow you to
take the floor so we can get this out there,
get it discussed, and you know, cure your opinions on it.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I'm going to preface this whole thing by saying I
hate when these things happen. I hate when everything like
this happens and it's so publicized. Because these things weren't
completely unheard of in like territory days, where people would
jump the ring and they would try and beat up
(05:45):
the wrestlers. It doesn't happen as much these days without
some kind of fanfare. This felt different, but I'll touch
into that in a second. But whenever this kind of
thing happens, it's detrimental to the wrestling business in general.
These In the territory days, it was more like, oh,
we're a good heal, we're making them care. But now
(06:06):
it's when someone's jumping the ring, it tends to be
for attention, and it tends to be for their own clout,
and it tends to be for their own stuff. It
doesn't It has nothing to do with good business, It
has nothing to do with good wrestling, It has nothing
to do with any of that. There there are very
few people jumping the ring for those reasons now, So
(06:27):
anyone who argues that in these kinds of scenarios, I
feel is off base, only because the audience is very different.
We were literally talking about that in the chat because
Grun was talking about how the audience was different because
he looked at a couple of rivals rivalries that we
were talking about in matches. He said the crowd was different,
and it was the first thing that he mentioned, and
(06:48):
it's different not just twenty years ago, but forty years ago.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So I hate the.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
Implications for the wrestling business when this kind of thing happens.
So that's my disclaimer of everything in general, regardless of
what I say next. I've seen all of the videos,
so I'm only working on what I know at this
current moment on Monday, August to twenty fifth. If anything
comes out after this, I can't stress enough. I've got
(07:17):
nothing because I don't know. I don't know what I
don't know. It's an unknown unknown, as we say, I
believe that's from pulp fiction. That's an unown known. So
I can't possibly know what I don't know. But from
what I could piece together, this was a work that
turned into a shoot. It was it seemed like it
(07:41):
was a planned angle because nobody tried to stop him
when I watched the footage, and I whatever the backstage
stuff is, I don't trust any of that because any
of that could have been a work they're literally looking
into the barrel of a camera. No one is going
to implicate themselves on the barrel of a camera. It's
just not gonna happen. So that part, to me is
(08:01):
the work, no matter what part of it came out.
Any wrestler who knows anything knows not to put personal
stuff in front of a camera. Now, I can't guarantee
that these guys weren't idiots. I don't know them personally though,
so I can't speak to that. But if I'm looking
at it from a wrestler's perspective, if a camera is up,
that is a promo. It is not a shoot. It's
(08:22):
not like it was a hidden camera. They all saw
the camera. Yeah, that part, to me was the work.
Where it turned into the shoot is him jumping the ring.
I don't know if the double leg itself was supposed
to be something, because an MMA trained guy isn't going
to know how to work those double legs slams very well.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
They're just gonna do it.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
And it looked like the guy's head ricocheted off off
of the mat. But those kinds of things whip so
hard that I couldn't tell you if you whip it
down correctly, like in a spinebuster or anything like that.
It's gonna look like your head hit the matt regardless.
That's the point of it. Really, I couldn't tell you
what happened in that moment. What I can tell you
is what happened after that moment, And those punches weren't worked.
(09:10):
Those punches were all thrown as live rounds, And what
I saw on the tape of the actual incident is
that nobody started to break it up immediately, and that
was the biggest telling sign to me that it was
part work. That was the telling sign to me. Everything
else with the promos and the whatever backstage videos that
(09:31):
have come out afterwards, Again, I don't necessarily trust those
as a worker because I don't know when they are
working and when they are shooting.
Speaker 6 (09:37):
At that point, well, that's a fair point.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
And justifying that is hard for me, because if a
guy sees a camera, he's not going to talk out
of turn, or at least he should know not to
talk out of turn. So I'm going to lean towards
that being work, But the punches weren't, and my feeling
is that both parties are probably at fault to an extent,
(10:06):
I feel.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Rajah is more at fault.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And the reason I say that is because even if
you feel like you can throw those live rounds, when
should you stop. You're a trained fighter. You know what
this is doing to a person who isn't defending themselves.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
That's a good point.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Why I could understand if someone said, hey, throw a couple,
because this happens in wrestling. Some people in the back
have this. I don't agree with this, by the way,
but this is something I've seen happen. Is Okay, throw
a couple live ones and then we'll go from there
and start the work.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I've seen that happen.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
You see people throw a lot of stip shots in
Japanese wrestling, same basic premise.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
They're agreeing to throw these things.
Speaker 6 (10:50):
Well, Kevin, not to cut you off, but the most
famous one that I know of was the Mayweather Big
Show one where Big Show told him, yep, to lay
one in because it's that's the only way it's going
to look real.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And it's it's also widely theorized.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
I don't know if it actually came out, it was
widely theorized that that's what happened with Orton and Lesner.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
At SummerSlam.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
Is that they agreed that Lesner would throw some live
ones with his elbow so that it would open up
Randy Orton so that it would look real.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
To the point where it worked people in the back.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
It worked everybody.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Ad But like, those are things that people do agree to,
and again I don't agree with them, because I think
what we should see in the ring should be mostly
a work, especially but especially when it comes to like
the actual physicality of it. You want to make it
look real, but you don't want to actually make it real,
because that's when it starts doing real damage. A trained
(11:49):
fighter is going to know when to stop. So he
threw what ten twelve punches live rounds like, well, if
he have gotten three off and then stopped and started
the work, that would have made more sense to me.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
But he kept throwing, Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
That there's no reason to do that. That's why I
feel he's mostly to blame, because it's just because someone
gave you permission to throw live rounds doesn't mean you
throw that many live fucking rounds.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
There's a there's a line.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
It doesn't it doesn't matter who gave you that permission,
you don't do that. And that's not wrestling, that's human.
I don't know how better to phrase that. Now on
the side where I feel the company is a little
a little at fault after people started seeing this. I
(12:50):
saw people get in the ring and start trying to
break it up. They didn't really know what was real
and what was fake at that point. But if you're
going to tell someone to lay it in and they
are in outside of the wrestling business, you need to
coach them all the way through it, every single aspect
of it. This isn't a person who's fully trained coming
(13:10):
into the ring. I don't care if they have MMA training.
I don't care if they have you know, jiu jitsu training.
I don't care if they know taekwondo, I don't know if.
I don't care if they know how to pull their punches.
They are going into a world they don't understand fully.
They might understand it a bit, they might be a
big fan of it, but they don't understand the world fully.
You have to coach them through every aspect of when
to go, when to stop, when, everything, and throughout all
(13:35):
of this, it seems to me that nobody talked to
him about that. Nobody talked to him about that. I
wasn't in the building for the meetings. I wasn't in
the building for any of the coaching, But just based
on the reactions that I'm seeing, I don't believe that
they gave him enough coaching. They didn't tell him when
(13:56):
to stop. Now, granted he needed to stop at some
point point two, but at the same time, you you
absolutely have to coach everyone through that every single time.
Then there's no excuse not to. Celebrities come into this
all the time, and earlier in the years of celebrities,
as we've all seen with ww it was very hit
(14:17):
or miss. If they understood a bit more of the
wrestling business, and we're fans, you'd get a little bit
more out of them, but it would still be wonky, right.
If they didn't understand a good goddamn about the wrestling business,
you would get things like, uh, Jeremy Pivens saying Summerfest
instead of Summer.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Slam because they're just there to promote something. It's not there.
Speaker 6 (14:38):
I forgot that.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It's hilarious. I can't forget it.
Speaker 7 (14:41):
I can't believe I remember that.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
I Actually I love Jeremy Piven's apparents, but I understand, like,
that's the kind of thing that happens if.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You don't get someone.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Yeah, and we get more celebrities now that they're going
through trainings, they're going through things before they can even
step into a ring for a match. That's what we need,
is that level of thing to make sure our wrestling
business doesn't look like a pile of garbage. And just
like anyone could come in and do whatever.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Yeah, And.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
This whole incident pissed me off when I saw it. Legitimately,
I looked at my screen, I disappointedly shook my head.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
I'll give you a reenactment. That was my reenactment of.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
My disappointed at shake screen my stupid phone. I could
not have been more upset disappointed everyone was sending it
to me. And I know this hurts draws. I know
this hurts everything. And to my knowledge, I just saw
a press release. They were a ww I D promotion
and they have lost that now. Not only that, but
(15:50):
I think it was Rakishi's promotion. Yep, that is confirmed,
and I believe because of that, I bet his relationship
with ww is more strained out too. So these are
the implications of these things happening, and this is the
risk that you take when things go wrong and people
want to go into business for themselves. Again, I can't
(16:12):
stress enough. I wasn't in all of the meetings, and
I can't possibly know what comes out next. But what
I do know is that this whole incident is a
is an entire travesty to this entire business, and it
throws a stain no matter how high or low up
you are in this business. I wish it didn't happen.
I wish I didn't have to sit on this podcast
(16:33):
and talk about it, but it's an unavoidable topic when
you when you're in a podcast like this, and it
sucks and it's awful. And I don't really have much
more to add other than I hope that the guy
who was absolutely bald is okay.
Speaker 6 (16:55):
Yeah, yeah, last reports I seen from, I believe his
sister he is recovering. He's still in critical but they
have him. I'm he's stable, okay, but he's he's going
to have a long road to recovery. The industry, for
(17:17):
that section of the industry, is gonna need to recover too,
because this is I mean, there was kids there, and
I know for you, Kevin as a guy who does
promotions and you go out there and you try to
make your product the best thing for everybody to be
able to enjoy. That right there, that's like a big thing.
(17:40):
And there's a lot of damon, damaging feed from Raj himself.
He was he was streaming live on Kick while while
this was whole. But that's his that's his gimmick, that's
his thing, that's what he does. It wasn't just he
didn't just show up here and was like, I'm going
to start streaming on Kick. But it's a it's a
(18:05):
sad moment for everybody involved, even Raj because obviously something,
something triggered him to that point. Because he's been in MMA,
he knows that there's a point you stop. But again,
like Kevin has said very very well, and Kevin, I'm
glad we got to actually sit here, me and Grun
(18:27):
and here you break it down. Everybody involved, no matter
how big the thing is, for a promotion, everybody has
to know what to say, what to be, how to
do this, how to do that, how to react, how
to You have to know knowing is going to prevent
things like this.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (18:47):
But yeah, that that was one of the most disturbing
things I've seen in wrestling in a long time. And
just before we bump real quick Grunt. I don't know
if you've ever seen it, but there's obviously around YouTube
there's things where fans have jumped before at bigger promotions
WWF back in the day, and things happened a.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Couple of times during the start of a w two.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Exactly those wrestlers they take care of business when this
stuff like that happens. So that was that was definitely
my my Also, Kevin, my line of sight where I
was like, something tells me there was a work, but
it went too far, like it just it went I mean,
(19:32):
that's obviously. I mean, I'm stating the obvious right now,
but it definitely appeared that way. Grun, I'm going to
give you two minutes if you have anything left you
want to say on this subject, But anybody who wants
to really get into Grun's thoughts on this, you got
to go to the Sunday House Party episode. Grunn broke
down his thoughts on it. It was pretty good. So
(19:54):
on two.
Speaker 7 (19:54):
Minutes, okay, uh. One big one of the clips I
saw going around was actual from Raja's kick account on
saying admitting that he was told one punch, a double leg,
take down, one punch out he and he admitted he
and then he also reveals that his mindset was fuck that,
(20:17):
I'm going to get in as many punches as i can.
So now, maybe that was him working his his audience
on kick.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
Maybe that's what it seemed like a point.
Speaker 7 (20:32):
Maybe the thing is those looked like he his dad.
He was in TNA for a minute because he wanted
to learn the business. Because he wanted to he went
to transition to PROG wrestling. Fortunately never really happened for him.
Raja did not has not taken that chance. Maybe he
has that same love for PROG wrestling his dad does,
(20:54):
but they never took the time to make sure he
understood the business. Maybe they thought Knox Pro was going
to train him. But now Quentin Rampage and Roger, they
gotta know. Roger's going to jail, he is, they're gonna
be criminal charges pressed.
Speaker 6 (21:15):
Well, right now we do know, for we're just trying
to be clear. We do know that the police are
investigating it right now. So and I'm going to tell
you if you have that amount of evidence, because Kevin
was right when he brought up the saying that it
could have been agreed and then it went too far.
(21:35):
And from what I know of the business, k fabe
is an important thing, and this if he there's a
chance that if he admits that this was not a
work and everything, he looks weak. And I'm not saying
in my eyes, but I'm saying in some of the
eyes of around others. And that's like, I just I
(22:01):
to me, I think that that needs to change in
the industry. I know it is with the guys like Kevin,
guys like that around your orbit, the women around your orbit. Uh,
but that mentality like if something happens you're you're assaulted,
that it doesn't make you weak you were assaulted, it
(22:21):
makes you you need to stand up for yourself. Yeah,
and that can just be in court. That doesn't have
to be fists, that doesn't have to be any violence,
you know. I just I really hope if Raj is
dealing with something mentally he needs, he gets the help
that he needs. And I hope Stu becomes healthy again.
(22:43):
I hope he gets back upon his feet, he's able
to do the things he loves. But again, at the
very end of all of this, it's a black eye
on the industry and that's the sad part of it. Like,
we love this industry, We want our I want my
future grandkids to want to come and hang out with
(23:04):
me to watch wrestling, you know, Grin, I know you
want your future kids if you ever decide to have them,
to be able to this, you too, Kevin, Like, we
just we want this to be the business that people love,
and that just it sucks.
Speaker 7 (23:17):
Yeah, Yeah, it's it seems like it's it's a bat
or worse situation. They don't press charges or then maybe
they're able to pay it off. Maybe they're able to
make it all work out for fans entertainment, but maybe not.
Maybe and maybe it doesn't even work out the way
(23:39):
they want it to.
Speaker 6 (23:40):
I mean, you can, you can get a lot of
heat in this storyline.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
You can.
Speaker 6 (23:46):
I'm not I'm saying that that's that must be what's.
Speaker 4 (23:49):
But that's another thing that happens in wrestling too, Yeah,
is when this kind of thing happens where some large
event that has a bunch of publicity on it, even
if it's a terrible event, it will get taken.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Advantage of for business.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Yeah, and that's not unheard of, and no, I don't
want to see it happen for this, but that doesn't.
But I would not be shocked if two weeks from
now we have you know, Raja against whoever at that promotion,
even because they're gonna, you know, run an angle with that,
that wouldn't shock me.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
It just wouldn't.
Speaker 6 (24:26):
It feels slimy to say, but I am there with
you on that, and I we're gonna hit los comment
and then we are going to move past this. We'll
put a pin in it if there's any more information
that comes up. Obviously, when once we hear Stu's out
of the hospital, we'll definitely talk about that. But outside
of that, we're going to put a pin in it.
So here's Lou's comment. Raja definitely needs to have charges
(24:50):
pressed on him. That many punches to the head could
have could be attempted murder.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
It also looks bad for premeditation. Mm hmm.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
Yeah, uh yeah, Lou, You're I mean, I I see
exactly what you're saying. Uh well, we'll definitely put a
pin in this though our fans who come to see us,
we will talk about this once we have more information,
but let's move on to your guys' topics. What do
we want to talk about this week, because well, we're
(25:26):
all already happened and and House got that covered on Wednesday.
What are we three gonna talk about?
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, well, you know what, so I just talked for
twenty minutes, so you're.
Speaker 6 (25:44):
With yeah, but we get the grun side, like, well.
Speaker 7 (25:52):
So let's let's let's talk about let's talk about better times.
We'll say, a better time in the industry when Raven
was battling Goldberg for the WWS title, Caine was putting
his masks on the line against Triple A's for the
World Heavyweight Championship, and KFE was still wildly protected, way
(26:16):
more protected than it is today.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
He's than now.
Speaker 7 (26:19):
Yes, yes, and and let's let's talk about I want
to talk about the crowds in a positive sense, because yeah,
the crowds got rowdy back then, but but you know
what it was because they were fully invested in Bleeved
and truly believed the stories that were being told, the reactions,
(26:41):
everything was so felt, so much more bat I'm like,
oh my god, this is genuine, this is genuine love
for this industry, genuine hatred of Triple h genuine hate
love for Caine, who was a demonic monster coming out
to slow chemical by Finger or Eleven who's not know
for that kind of music.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Righter times entry the CD doesn't get enough love.
Speaker 6 (27:06):
Oh it's such a good.
Speaker 7 (27:10):
They're a fantastic, fantastic Raven kind of playing the heel
sort of, but fans were more like Goldberg. So it's
like Raven could just do his thing and it would
still get the same results. It's like, like, so do
(27:31):
you guys think that kind? Is that gone? Are we
never going to get back to a time like that?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Ah? Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:44):
I went through and studied a lot of crowds when
I was watching matches, because I'll let you a little
behind the curtain on this wrestling training. When we're trained
for wrestling, we're taught to watch a match four times.
You watch a mat so that you watch the one guy.
You watch a match so you watch the second guy,
(28:04):
and then you watch the match a third time to
watch the ref and listen to the crowd, and then
the fourth time is to watch the whole presentation. What
I learned from that and what I see now on crowds,
I just finished watching, well not just finished I watched
it yesterday. I watched both NXT heat Wave and Forbidden Door.
(28:28):
I watched both of them all the way through, and
I didn't mind Forbidden Door. Most of the action was fine.
But what I do realize about the crowds right now.
And I know this about festival crowds usually because they're
non wrestling fans, but apparently this has leached over into
wrestling fans as well. People are reacting to stunts and sounds,
(28:54):
especially sounds more than anything else these days. Now you'll
get those genuine reacts at the culmination of a long story.
Take Cody Rhads going over Roman reigns that evoked genuine
emotion from the crowd. But it took them nine No,
it took them longer than nine months to get there.
It took them a year and a half to get there.
(29:14):
That's how long it took to get the genuine emotion
from people. Now because they saw all that journey and
they got brought on that journey, and that was good.
There were some patches in between where you didn't know
where it was going to go, and by you don't
know where it was going to go, it's where the
crowd felt it was going to go because Roman Reigns
had a late surge to beat Cody Roads for like
no reason from half the crowd.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
That's what they wanted at the time.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Okay, this is a whole nother discussion, but fans genuinely
don't know what they want absolutely, and they want to
be surprised. They want to be surprised so bad that
they will shatter storytelling to do it. They will shatter
it and they will want that to be shattered just
because they want the shock value. And that's taught to
(30:00):
us by the Attitude era. And I blame the Attitude
era for it. That is what people are nostalgic for it.
They're nostalgic for shit to just go wonky for no reason.
To the point where I saw people going, oh, I
missed Vince McMahon, Oh you don't.
Speaker 7 (30:18):
Maybe maybe I think what they mean, missed the the
Vince mc man that that created the Attitude era and
the ruthless aggressionary.
Speaker 4 (30:26):
They missed that Vince was random I saw the comments
they he did random ship and they're just like, oh,
it's just Vince. I agree that they probably also missed
the Vince of the Attitude era, but that was also
Vince Russo, and.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
The track record there is spotty at best.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
And lambastingly love at worst, because what Vince Russo was
really good at was shock value, but it was at
the it was at the absolute expense of any sensical storytelling.
Speaker 6 (31:03):
Yeah, so.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Back to back to the crowds, though, the crowds now
aren't as invested because they want that shock value and
they're they're thinking that they're so smart in the backstage
of aspect of it, that they can predict everything, and
then when their prediction goes wrong, they get disappointed. That
happens a lot, and this isn't it's not really like
(31:27):
a shot at them, it's just what happened. The Internet
has taught us that we get immediate answers. It happens
with students that I teach on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I had a.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
Conversation with a student today and the student we're in
a math class and I'm and I go, you know,
there's a million different ways to get to the single
answer in math.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
And the student goes, yeah, but I just want to
know the answer.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
I go, yeah, but that's not how life works, don't
You can't just get the answer to everything, and she
just looks at me and goes, yes, I can, it's
right here, and she holds up her phone and I go,
does that phone tell you what them of that person
sitting right there has and she goes, uh no, So
you don't have all the answers.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
Kevin's laying truth down in the classroom.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Philosophical man, no matter where I am. But that's the
immediacy that people want. So when they're wrong, they don't
like being wrong. And even if it was a good story,
they're unwilling to look back and go, Wow, that did
make sense and that did work, or oh I see
how they got there. And it's not one hundred percent.
Some of the stories defall flat. Some of them aren't good.
(32:36):
That's life.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Can't hit a you can't bat a thousand, it's just
not gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
But there are multiple ways to tell a story, and
people are unwilling to see that sometimes. And I know
I got lose question there and I went off on
a tangent, but I do want to hit that. Do
you feel that fans are involved so much with behind
the scenes convos and discussions that it kind of takes
away from the excitement and enjoyment of the shows ten percent.
(33:05):
It's unfortunate that we see so much of the news
break now because now and I think.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
WW is starting to do this.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
They did it a little bit under Vince's reign, but
they're really starting to do it now. They're feeding a
bunch of stuff that's wrong to the news, and they
know who their leaks are, and they know who the
people who they're trusting is. And they're getting rid of
the people who are telling people the truth and they're
keeping the people who are telling the depressed lies.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And I love that.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
I do too.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I want to be worked.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Please work me, because I am a person who isn't
easily worked anymore. It just doesn't happen as much because
of how much wrestling I've seen and been behind the
scenes of. So when you can work me, I am happy.
And I had the same conversation with Annie. Annie doesn't
like being worked, and she says that, But to me,
(34:04):
what that means is she doesn't like being lied to. Yeah,
and I get that. I get that inkling. But when
you're working for a business, you're not lying. You don't
know these people.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, I get that inkling. That's the difference. To me,
and it's okay to feel that way. It truly is.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
You don't have to like being worked, but it is
part of the wrestling business. And if you aren't going
to get worked in the wrestling business, you're probably in it.
You're probably in it not for the right reasons as
a fan, as a person involved in it. You have
to be willing to be worked even if you don't
like it. You have to be comfortable in the uncomfortable.
(34:46):
And Annie still does that. She still gets worked, and
she still hates it every time, but she's willing to
go through that because she's a professional. And yeah, she
gets the genuine reactions because of it. The reason she
doesn't like getting worked is because she gets so emotional
about it. She gets pissed off at it, and it's like, oh,
it was all a fake.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, I felt bad for you.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
And I love that about her because you truly lose
herself in it and I.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Getting worked as part of this business.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
And if it's just like watching a TV show, if
you just want to read the spoilers of the TV
show because all the stuff already aired, just read the spoilers,
don't watch it, and then get pissed off that it
ended a certain way because you didn't predict it.
Speaker 6 (35:34):
Now, I completely agree with you, and in our line
of the work, we see a lot of that with
some content creators in which they they get they form
their opinions because they were wrong about the storyline, and
it's like, that's not to me. It's like a roller coaster. Yep,
I ride a roller coaster because at some point for me,
(35:58):
it's going to give me a feeling of free falling
and knowing that I'm going to be safe wrestling, I
go in there to be lied to. That is I want, Like, Okay, Grun,
you were talking about Goldberg and Raven. This is one
of my favorite matches of all time, and yes, Goldberg's
(36:20):
in the match. It's because to me as a viewing
as a viewer back then, it let me see that
Goldberg can actually go longer than a two minute match,
and it showed that Raven showed the rest of the
wrestling audience in the world that he can be taken down.
(36:45):
In that match, Raven did not come out successful, but
he made Goldberg bleed from his mouth by that drop
toll hold he does onto the chair. He made an
audience fall for the character that he's trying to present
as Raven as opposed to just being in love with Goldberg.
(37:05):
Because Grun you said it. There was a point where
it seemed like Raven was the good guy, and then
all of a sudden the crowd was against him, and
then they were cheering for Goldberg. That was the effect
of Goldberg. Goldberg would he would show up and all
of a sudden, the entire stadium would be chanting his name.
They would just show him banging his head. Everybody would
(37:27):
be going nuts. My household included it. Minus me. I
was like, I don't get it, guys, what's going on here?
They're like, he's fucking Goldberg. Okay, well great, but you
see what I'm saying, Like the love I love when
the magician fools me and I set up the rest
of the night going how the fuck did he do that?
(37:49):
That That's what I love. Now. I totally get where
Annie's coming from, but she is such a professional that
the raw emotion she gets is that legitimate emotion that
you just absolutely love. You get to look at somebody
who you you value, their opinion and their thoughts on things,
(38:10):
and then to see them get so emotionally involved and
be like, well fuck them. They just like to me,
that to me is just like that's love right there.
That's a that's a moment of love that you get
to experience, and wrestling provided it. We we opened up
the show with the nasty of it. We're here at
the love of it, the fandom grunt. I do think
(38:31):
we can get back to that. I look at I
look at Dublin, I look at I look at Puerto Rico.
I look at all those fan bases, and they do
the old stuff. They they fall in love with it
as a whole group, thousands upon thousands of people under
one roof, falling in love for the story that is
being told and what is being played out. And like
(38:54):
Triple HS famously said, in the past months, like you
you talked about Kevin, he has been weaking false shit
to a bunch of people because they were figuring out
who it was. But he wants you to be shocked,
He wants you to be worked because he comes from
that era where it was fun. Like we've talked about
it a million times, but Brian Pillman pulling out a
(39:16):
gun at Steve Boston because Steve Boston buster hisself. That
made me, as a kid, think that Steve Austin died.
I thought we were going to see his funeral next Monday.
That's what I thought was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
If it would have happened, Vince would have aired it
live for the ratings.
Speaker 6 (39:31):
Brother, No, he would have you know it.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
He was.
Speaker 6 (39:35):
And this is gonna sound sick, but I guarantee there's
a piece of Vince that was pissed the cameras pulled
away from Owen.
Speaker 7 (39:45):
I guaranteed piece, a tiny piece because because I I
think I do remember hearing Vince did have a love
for Owen and was going to be pushed putting a
rocket on his back.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
He has a love for a lot of things, but
his one number love, one love is money.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Uh can I rephrase that one because I've every I've
ever heard money is part of it, but his business specifically,
So yes, the money is a part of it, but
his business and his success specifically is the biggest part.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
Okay, Well, another wrong.
Speaker 6 (40:28):
That's good that we have Kevin here clarifying it. And
you know, I like that. I like that. I mean
it's Vince saying it, but yeah, I still like it. Yeah,
I want to hear Grun's thoughts on Cina bean face again.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Perfect. We got ten minutes.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yeah, I mean it's I mean, I mean, look, look, i'll, i'll,
I will agree with Josh that he's seen the last
couple five months was amazing.
Speaker 7 (40:57):
It was fantastic. It was it was it was John
Cena as as JOHNSONA. We knew, just airing, just throwing
back the heat that he got for years from the
adult fans, and it was just this time around, like
he was still he was being the heel, but still
(41:18):
treated as a babyface, which was like, it was surreal.
It was awesome. It was amazing because JOHNSONA was getting
his flowers once again, and everybody was on board with it.
Even if the kids hated johnson and loved Cody Rhodes,
they understood that John Cena is the reason why Cody
(41:41):
Rhodes is the way he is.
Speaker 6 (41:42):
Now.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
Now what I feel about but overall, how I feel
about seeing the being face again, it's I think everything's
right with the world. I think look Sina should be
going out as a babyface.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I think we said that on this program. I think we.
Speaker 6 (42:01):
Both of you have I stuck to my guns. I
wanted to hear listen.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Honestly, I think I played both sides.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
I think I was like, hey, I could see he'll
see it going out on his back. But I could
also as time progressed, I was like, ah, fake, he's
gonna turn face.
Speaker 7 (42:15):
I mean like I'd be fine. Who was heel all
the way up till he lost his final match to whoever,
whether it be Cody Rhodes, Our truth, Joe Hendry, I don't,
I don't care, but he'l up until that loss and
then and then at then, like three four minutes after
(42:35):
the match, gets up and breaks character like guys, thank
you for everything. Super Stena shows up, gives his love
and just a farewell.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
Will be old.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
Uh what is it? Sharpshooter writing off in the distance.
Speaker 6 (42:53):
This is like one of those romance novels that I love.
Lose a comment here, gun put a SNA sheets back
on his bed. That's all I was gonna say. All
the Philadelphia's a sperm donor banks were fully loaded of grun.
That's how he was just out there donating every day.
(43:18):
We look when.
Speaker 7 (43:29):
Thank you, yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
I mean we did. We did cover it when you
When he first went back to face, Grun came grinning
ear to ear on the stage. He was very happy
for that moment. But again that I think that ties
into what we were talking about, guys with the fandom,
Grun's pure love for John Cena. Just going back to
(43:52):
what he knew, what he grew up with, what he
fell in love with with John Cena. It's a perfect
story book ending. Yeah, I'm gonna say a Hall of
Fame career three times over.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
It could very well be a Mount Rushmore career.
Speaker 6 (44:10):
Yeah, yeah, you are.
Speaker 4 (44:12):
You know you're not struggle to find arguments against Sena
being on it at this point.
Speaker 6 (44:17):
It's hard. It is very hard.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Because I guess if you want to clarify it, like
I'm talking about overall impact in the wrestling business as
a performer in the ring, that's my clarification because tons
of people make their Mount rushmorees and they're like, well,
I focus more on in ring.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
It's like, Okay, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
But like I'm talking about putting the bias aside, saying
who is the biggest people who have ever done this?
And I mean, it's hard to argue against Sina at
this point because of the impact that he had how
long he carried the company. Like, say what you will
(45:02):
about your opinions on Hogan, but he would have to
be considered for up there because of how long he
was relevant in the business.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
That alone, to me is huge.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
Yeah, because I could see that as being and I
love this man as a performer.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
I don't know the man, but.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Like I could see that as being a negative for
someone like Stone Cold because he had more of a
limited tenure on top. He had a huge tenure on
top for the for the limited time he had it,
but it wasn't that long of a tenure. People like
Sena and Hogan carried the company for decades. So it's
tough to argue out. And I didn't say any of
(45:40):
the greatest of all time. I said Rushmore because I
would agree Flair would probably have to be up there again,
longevity if we're talking about how long he was on
top of the business.
Speaker 6 (45:51):
He brought territories. Yeah, and that's what I'm going to say,
the amount of weight that came with him. You know,
the major companies for Rick Flair, there is there's room
for him at that Rushmore, not today, but you know
the Flair of yesteryear. Yeah, but I like how you
(46:12):
put that, Kevin, because that's how I put it too,
and I think that you're on the same length of
It's like, what did they do for the industry as
a whole? You know, who brought more not necessarily eyes,
but more fans that are long like I'm here because
I fell in love with what hal Cogan was doing
on my screen. He was everywhere when I was a kid,
(46:35):
and then I learned about different wrestlers and different things
that I enjoyed about the industry and then evolved. I
think John Cena has that in his his bag. I mean,
to go from the roofless aggression to all that and
to still be relevant on top. It wasn't back and forth,
(46:57):
it wasn't. It was John Cena. That was his time.
That's when he made his mark. And then today to
show up on a ring and grown men of our
age are still like, you can't see me, you can't
do like you know, they're out there with that.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
Crossed over from wrestling. That was happening in baseball. That
was exactly basketball.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
It's the same.
Speaker 4 (47:19):
And this is another guy that you'd have to argue
for Rushmore, even though his time was limited on the
roster or not on the roster, but limited.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
On top is the Rock and the Turn.
Speaker 4 (47:28):
I would argue that is not because of his tenure
on top, like Hogan or like Sina, but because the
Rock is the biggest. And I don't think that this
is much of a surprise. Is the biggest crossover star
in wrestling to anything else, to movies and everything.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I don't think that's an arguable fact.
Speaker 4 (47:45):
After that, I read about how much money he made
off of all of his movies.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
That means a bunch of people saw it.
Speaker 6 (47:51):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, tons of people seen it. But
when I think of those those guys, and I'm gonna
throw the Undertaker in there, sure, because when I think
of that, it took all three of those guys to
make the movement that they made. It wasn't a singular
Hogan was singular, you know, Sena, I'm sorry, but a
(48:13):
singular beast, you know, until we got things like I
know you're looking forward to it, Grun, I'm looking forward
Lesnar when he you know, that's when people were like,
oh shit, maybe Sina. I think he's ran up to
against his brick wall and then he overcomes it and
does things like that. To me, Austin, the Rock and
(48:35):
Undertaker great. I could put arguments of greatest of all
time with them, but to put them on the Rushmore,
I don't know if I can.
Speaker 4 (48:47):
I think the Rock has the strongest argument of the three,
only because and Taker was on top for longer, I think.
But the Rock has so so much crossover appeal and
how much he's done for the business that way and
bringing people in. I think that's what lends him a consideration,
if not just an honorable mention.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
But I think you would have to go back to.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Bruno Sammartino to probably start putting people onto the Rushmore
because of how effective he was in the territories that
he was in. He had the mob trying to kill
people for hurting him, so like, I don't know how
much more over.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
You can be.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
The mob.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
No, there's a story I listened to it on Jim
Cornett's podcast, Stan Hansen, a young Stan Hansen accidentally broke
Bruno Sammartino's neck with a clothesline.
Speaker 6 (49:39):
Oh shit, And Bruno.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
Sammartino had to go around because there was hits out
on Stan Hansen from the fucking mob because he heard
Bruno he heard it was going to all the neighborhoods
in New York. He couldn't step foot in there until
Sam Martino went, no, let me handle it myself.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Like that's the four Family say no, let me do it.
Speaker 6 (50:02):
That's awesome, Like that's wild. Yeah, but that again talks
about what we're talking about. When it comes to our
Rushmore picks. Those are guys who changed the industry. Yeah,
and I hate to say it, but Grun your favorite
of all time. I gotta give him a flowers. Yea,
(50:23):
the dude has done it. So hopefully, Nick, that answers
your question on John Cena face turn.
Speaker 7 (50:32):
If I could just make one less this conversation on
Mount Rushmore, Like, I think it's awesome that today you
can look at a thousand different wrestlers and specifically within
WWE or WCW or even TNA and say they deserve
to be on the Mount Rushmore Pro Wrestling because you
(50:53):
know what aj Styles did a unbelievable thing and a
lot of the people that he worked with, Machine Gun
SMO with Joe Frank Exier and Christopher Daniels was amazing.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
Read.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
They built a company that while it never uh never
overthrew WWE. It proved its value and created people that
we love to this day. If someone yells beer, someone's
gonna yell money, and then everyone screens beer money.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
And I think we're in a time where we're gonna
see we're gonna see AEW with that too, even if
they again, even if they don't overthrow WW or you know,
stand in that large competition of it or whatever, we're
gonna look back on some of the guys from AW MJF.
You've got Bobby Lashley and Shelton Benjamin killing it there. Yeah,
(51:48):
I think we'll end up looking back favorably on Hangman. Uh,
you got Swerve, Strickland, you got Osprey. You've got all
of these guys building up a company and like to
their credit, even if you don't necessarily agree with all
the entering action and stunts and things like, they are
providing an alternative that is still drawing writings and is
(52:08):
still doing something huge and massive.
Speaker 6 (52:10):
That's one facts. And again, if you tuned into us yesterday,
we have talked about it. There is going to be
more aw coverage. We are we are going to start
covering more of them. We have Hypocrisy Jones will be
in the discords during aw shows events, So go in there.
(52:32):
I know people out there miss Jones on screen, but
that is a way to stay in touch with him
through our discord and he'll be coming back to screen soon,
so just pipe down, go get your fix on Discord.
But yeah, aw, though, like I've said, they have to
prove this to me. I'm going to watch. I'm going
(52:54):
to enjoy wrestling as a whole because I love wrestling,
and I can't wait to see what they do with
this beautiful present that has been put at their Christmas
tree with WWE for some reason, being like, you know what,
those guys who built everything that we have today, screw
(53:16):
those fans. We'll see what happens. I don't see this
this lasting long, but who knows. You never know. With wrestling,
you never know, you never know. So fans, we've come
to the time where it is six Well it's not
six minutes before they go live, because they already went live.
It's six minutes before we leave your screen. So I'm
(53:37):
gonna give my friends who you've enjoyed. Kevin loved your
opinions tonight, Grun loved your pure emotion, especially when it
came to Sina. Those are the things that we love here.
Let them know where they can find you, guys and
what you got going on.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
You can find me a Twitch dot Tv, slash run Miser, YouTube,
grum Micer, Kick, grum Miser every I stream every seven
pm Eastern Gruns are inspect and weave a preview show
talking everything in the SmackDown. This week definitely be adding
Clash and Paris talk as well.
Speaker 6 (54:10):
Beautiful, beautiful, all right, Kevin, Let them know where they
can find the chaos in which you create.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
You can find me at Kevin Callaway on Facebook.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
You can find me at Callaway Kevin on Instagram.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
I am as.
Speaker 4 (54:26):
I don't know if you guys saw this commer Oh no,
I put it in the I put in the chat
the commercial that I've did for the event coming up
September twenty first, the Dakota and Beer Bral. If you're
in the Michigan era or Detroit area. Can't recommend it enough.
It's gonna be a fun time. I'm also getting back
on streaming. My job just started, so I've been trying
(54:48):
to work out times and figuring that out. But I
will be back playing games here shortly once I work
out my new schedule based on that, and that'll be
on Kevin Twitch dot Tv, slash, Kevin Callaway.
Speaker 6 (54:59):
Pro, Beautiful Beautiful, Love It So fans, it's in your
house and guess what. We teamed up with Goalie Goalie
dot com And let me tell you, guys, this is
me the voice telling you some of the things that
they have. I'm a producer here on the Window Liquors Network.
I'm also on the IYH Network. I'm also putting together
(55:22):
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I always go to the Goaliemacha mind gummies. Those are
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every bit of footage that I got to cover with
(55:44):
these guys. So if you're ready to power your mind
and stay focused through all your busy schedules, you have
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join me on the wellness Journey of IYH and you
(56:05):
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we're doing and our team up there. So outside of that, guys,
we have some shows coming up, like I've been talking about.
If you want to get the recaps of Monday Night Raw,
it is going to be on Wednesday with the Raw
(56:26):
deal with House and O'Neil. That's where you need to be.
You're gonna get some great insight from House and Annie
herself will keep you in tapped with what works and
what doesn't work for Annie. So go check them out.
That's Wednesdays. You're gonna love that show. Hit the subscribe,
hit the likes, hit the follows, because you need to
know when we go live because Thursday is the ECW
(56:49):
Watch along and it's been a banger. We just had
a huge discussion about should Spike Dudley be in the
Hall of Fame? Yes, sir, please, I'll take another.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
It was a good discussion.
Speaker 6 (57:00):
That was a great discussion House. Really he really made
me fall back in love with Spike Dudley during that episode.
And we also just had Joel Gertner on one of
the legends on a microphone. One of the guys you
want maybe not given wedding toast or things like that,
but you know, maybe hyping you up at a bachelor party.
Hire Joel Gertner. You can get them anyway, So go
(57:23):
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(57:45):
Join us. Like I've said, it's clicking the likes, the subscribes,
the follows, the notifications, and you'll always know where IYH is.
Hit our discord up. We are moving in there. It's fun.
It's a good time. We got out there. Brainbuster t's
go hit up i y h. Annie O'Neill has her
own clothing line of clothes out on frontline pro. Check
(58:10):
them out and get in touch with Annie. Let her know, Hey,
we like this ship you're putting out there. Annie. We're
gonna buy her out and they are nice shirts and yeah,
we'll talk about that later because I want to go.
I'm looking to get one of them. Sure, but fans,
you see what we do here. This is an every
Monday show. We completely love the fact that you join us,
(58:32):
give us our time and I y h. We hope
to see you on all our other shows. So come
join us and have some fun. Buye window down.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
The cans out the streets, taking no hood out windows day,
ain't got the window. They can move, turn stop. Just
how we brist by your fad.
Speaker 6 (59:04):
We can't beat the night
Speaker 2 (59:05):
In the turn South,