A powerful new episode is out now , featuring Maj Gen SVP Singh, VSM (Retd) in conversation with Anku Goyal. From the frontlines of defence to boardroom-level decision-making, this conversation dives deep into what it really means to lead under pressure, inspire teams, and serve with clarity and conviction. Whether you’re in uniform or a young professional charting your path, this episode bridges the world of military precision with everyday leadership lessons.
We talk real stories, real stakes, and the mindset it takes to operate at the highest levels — in defence, in crisis, and in life. How does the Army build synergy between its arms?
What role does empathy play in tough missions? How can young Indians take inspiration from military conduct into business, startups, or civil service? This is more than a conversation — it’s a wake-up call for a generation looking to lead with substance and impact (wide spectrum Coverage).
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We talk real stories, real stakes, and the mindset it takes to operate at the highest levels — in defence, in crisis, and in life. How does the Army build synergy between its arms?
What role does empathy play in tough missions? How can young Indians take inspiration from military conduct into business, startups, or civil service? This is more than a conversation — it’s a wake-up call for a generation looking to lead with substance and impact (wide spectrum Coverage).
Now streaming across YouTube, Spotify, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter (X). Tune in, get inspired, and rethink what it means to lead.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indiapodcasts-we-hear-what-you-want-to-say--4263837/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
To be a soldier.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I want to tell the viewers is the greatest pride
which one carries from the top general right down to
the junior most Javan. We are all soldiers and we
(00:22):
carry the Nama Nishan of our Pultan, of our army.
I would like to vote here a line from that
great strategist Clausewitz is the Prussian general.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
He said that war.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Is the continuation of politics by other means. Even Chanakya
was in the same mold when we came back. We
came back with ninety three thousand prisoners of war and
these prisoners of war were treated as soldiers as we
treat our own soldiers. They tried to repeat the nineteen
(01:03):
forty seven forty eight to occupy Kashmir in Keshmir, so
that time they use the Kabalis, the lush Cus. Whether
it's the London Tube or in Spain or anywhere else
in Germany. The roots have been in the epicenter of
terrorism Pakistan. Yes, so the world has got short memories.
(01:24):
They want to forget. India is saying we are fighting
your war. Let's take India forward on independence. They are
public they're doing the flag. Brill I said listen, please
come out, don't be in your beds.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Be proud of India.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
So Mejia General. I mean, I'm addressing you like that
because I think you have more to hold on to
your designation, to your awards and decoration you carry. But honestly,
it's a privilege one not just because you gave me
this time and I'm here to speak to you of
something which is of our interest now as an Ashar interest,
but also because it is my first time in life
(02:03):
that I'm dating this moment to sit with someone who
has actually lived his life in the true sense we say,
live it for the country or live it for the
true values of us being what we are. So with
that regard, thank you so much. Thank you for making
this time.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well uncle, I'm very much honored to be there on
India Podcast. And I understand your government approved, so you
have a standing of your own and for which I
must congratulate you for your diligence to have reached that level.
And for me, it's a great honor and an honor
a man who spent almost four decades in uniform. And
(02:41):
if I take my education breackground to the Russian in
military college, it spans to nearly forty seven years of
my life in uniform, So one lived in uniform and
the blood, sweat and honor is all for this country birth.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
What makes you feel that you know, we always want
to know us civilians. We always say it's our army man,
we have that pride. But I don't know how army
man feels within that uniform. Is it little baggaged? Is
it a thing that you take a responsibility with a
lot of pain, with a lot of grit. What is
that feeling that brings that runs through you which we
(03:24):
don't really understand, but we feel proud of you.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
To be a soldier. I want to tell the viewers.
Is the greatest pride which one carries. It's the pride
of your uniform. It's the pride that you shoulder the
burden of national security of your country within you. And
it is the tarunga which is so dear to us
(03:53):
when we hold it aloft, when we plant it on
Cargill Heights, and likewise doing wars. It has a special
civil significance. It matters a lot, you see, and a soldier.
When I say a soldier, I address this from the
top general right down to the junior most Javan.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
We are all soldiers.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And we carry the na Namak Nishan of our Pultan,
of our army as the dearest to us.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Now that is army.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It is also said in Hindi jasbah nasha to be
a soldier. So I think we lived our lives like
that and we don't retire. I am a veteran by name,
but I'm a soldier at heart, and you never retire.
(04:48):
You serve the nation in whatever capacity. And I'm here
before you today to project once again our nation in
it all is great form, whether it is war or
whether it is economy, whether it is a diplomacy, India
is a great country.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And I say this.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
True to my heart.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I would like to know that we cannot just limit
the understanding of a soldier or army only to war
or warfare scenario. But I think they understand the other
aspect of the country as well. Is it a wholesome
understanding when you're trained into it, you're given a wholesome
understanding of existence of our nation, or it is just
related to the techniques and strategies of the war, of
(05:33):
how to protect the country, how to protect the borders.
Is it limited in that box. So is it unlimited
knowledge and understanding economically, defense, your national culture, everything, every
aspect of as we civilians should be aware. How deep
is that knowledge and training of our army.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I think it's a very good question. And this question
is to me, is identifying you and me to the
nation to the viewers? Well, firstly I said, it's a democracy.
So this democracy is your army. It's a democratic country.
It is your army, it's your armed forces, it's your military,
(06:12):
and we serve the nation both for his external threat
and for his internal security. So we guard the borders,
we guard.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
The internal security.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
And you all have seen kit is not only war.
Indian military has been to the fore you realize when
they're monsoon floods, their earthquakes in Ourakhan, we have had
so many debacles which have taken place. Who's in the
forefront at that time? It is your military, be it
(06:42):
the air force, be it the army, be it the navy, marcos.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
You see.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So army is there to uphold the national security, both
internal and external. And we are twenty four to seven
in service of the nation. Army military doesn't switch off.
There are no holidays. Our holidays are that we serve
(07:07):
you and that is our Nussia.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So that is it you.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
No military is all pervading in the lives of bath
in India. You take away the military and you know, okay,
what is the vacuum which takes place? And no country
in the world, I want to say, no country in
the world has such service being given by their military
(07:37):
internal and external security. Whether it is countance, agency, proxy, war,
counter terrorism, terrorism, we are there, whether it is Jamu
and Kashmir, whether.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It is Northeast, we are there.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And the nation I would appeal to the countrymen and
country women be aware of this. We are very proud
of our country people, and you in return give us
back that that is what the military values most.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
You know, such a bigger operation Sindor has been executed
by our country now which has come to more. It
came as a realization shocked to everyone. It did not
come in the face in a good scenario. It came
after the Paralgum, the most you know, shocking incident or
a tragic incident that happened. So obviously this strike back
(08:29):
approach which we had in operations in there one I
want you to make us understand how do we look
at this operation? Is it a war attack, is it
a counter attack? Is it a parlem revenge or is
it just a surgical strike? What is the right way
to understand any move by the country and term it
right because that understanding of the right term. We went
(08:51):
into a war, we went into an operation of what
kind will help us take it forward? To understand how
should we located strategically? And if you can plain the
operational Shindu strategic movement, was it a good strategy or
was it a good comeback defense attack from the country.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You're putting very good questions and I like it. Operations Sindhu.
I should define it as the awakening of Barth. It
broke away from the past. We have broken away from
(09:32):
the past of a defensive mindset. We have created a
deterance of a kind which not only Pakistan, but the
world is looking at.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
What is India? What is Barath?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And I tell you, when the annals of military history
will be written, Operations Sindhu will stand out one of
cuts grit and determination from the top, the political hierarchy,
the determination and the firm signaling from the military point
(10:13):
of view, the synergy, the strategic content which was there
and the delivery it has been absolutely I would say top.
It has been well coordinated. It has conveyed what it
was aimed to convey. As we go along, I will
(10:33):
explain also what was operations Sindur. But I would like
to quote here a line from that great strategist closets
is the Prussian general in the German Army. He said
that war is the continuation of politics by other means.
(10:58):
Even Chanakya was in the same mold. Now when we
say that, what does it involved? War's the continuation, so
it is continuing. Here I would like to define nature
of war and character of war. Nature of war is
a permanent why because war is violent, war is destructive,
(11:25):
war is misery. So the nature of war doesn't change
the character of war. War changes the forms change why
because technology comes in. Okay, So I've taken forward from
closewits to nature and character of war. And here I'm
(11:45):
reminded of Elvin.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Toffler the waves.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
He said how the human society evoluted. The first wave
was in a we're in the stone age. Then came
the bows and arrows. Yes, so it was brain versus braun,
and Braun was the supremo of that time. Then the
(12:09):
second wave came with the introduction of the locomotives. If
you recall it was the Industrial Revolution, yes, and when
this industrial revolution set in, alongside developed the military. If
my weapon was a stone and the bows and arrows
and spears, now came the machine guns, the rifles, you know,
and the brain started thinking that if I got a rifle,
(12:32):
a machine gun, and I'm going to fight, so I
must dig and dig down in the trenches to protect.
And when I fired, I stood up and went down
in the trenches. And as you evlated into the twentieth century,
then came the tanks. Yes, the tank warfare set in.
The machine guns had already been there, so they a
(12:53):
tank gave the mobility, took the mobility forward from the horsemen,
from the cavalier cavalier to the cavalier became an armored
core tank guy. And the utterery then started firing from
those cannons, the guns which were more technical, which became
indirect firing. Earlier they were direct firing. Yes, now you
(13:15):
could not see the target, but now that's how the
guns were delivering. And the third wave came during this time,
I would say the second warlbar when it became the
atomic age, when the nuclear bomb was used, and alongside
came the computers. So that was the third wave. Now
I think we are in the fourth and fifth wave.
As Alvin Toffler said, give the time and space keeps contracting.
(13:38):
Was the change of the society and of the system.
So now the weapon systems and the human thing. So
the second wave was brain and brawn even doubt balanced
the third wave onwards, the brain started getting the priority,
(13:59):
became more aggressive, and the bronze started going down. So
because you're sitting in computer stations, you're you're sitting back.
War is not fought even from war rooms.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yes, the doorst level is.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Functioning behind to give you logistics support sitting on the
computer desk in the operations room. So the brain is
now supreme, but bronz cannot be taken away.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Why I say that because the.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Indian military or the military has to be physically fit.
If you're physically fit, you're robust, and if you're robust,
then you're mentally agile. So I've taken you forward on.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
This how it has evolved, evolved.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And I can cover operations in by itself.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
So talking about how it evolved into the Wave three.
Now you're seeing operations. Indur has come to that evolved
state of the war where artillery evolution has really helped.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Utlati is one component of of all warfare. You see,
the warfare has changed its character many times. Yes, the
First World War was different, the Second World War was different.
Our nineteen sixty two sixty five War sixty two with
China was different. The character was different, the sixty five war,
(15:23):
the nineteen seventy one war, the character of war was
totally different. The conventional war in its brilliance where Pakistan
was defeated and East Pakistan became Bangladesh.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It was a.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
History created in military history in the world annals a
country being created as large as Bangladesh, a large population
and the greatness of the Indian culture in war came
out when we gave back East Pakistan as Bangladesh to
(16:02):
the government of Bangladesh and came back. And when we
came back, we came back with ninety three thousand.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Prisoners of war.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And these prisoners of war were treated as soldiers as
we treat our own soldiers. The Army Chief that time,
General Manikshaw later Pield Marshall. He said, they'll be treated
as my men. I make this point because there's a
human terran anger in this yes, and what he conveyed
(16:38):
was that these prisoners of war and the men will
not sleep on floor. And when they were being repatriated
they were officers, the junior commission officers and men. They said,
if we were part of your army, we would have
been the victors. It is our officers who have defeated us.
(17:02):
And that story of Pakistan continues. Their generals are defeating
their nation. They are not taking them forward, they are
taking them forward in.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Hate and violence.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So that's what I mean. We started with Operations Sindhur,
but we are really region now.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
But that is very nice. While come back to this
because when you define how our army treats war, I
think that also defines how we look at the whole
idea of hosting or conducting or taking our operations, because
our approach is very different when we go there.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Let me say what is very close to my heart
at this moment, and that is that Operations Indure was
brilliance sonified on the parts.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Of both our political.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
System, our leaders and our military commanders.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It was a great operation.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Now your theme which you sent to me was precision,
purpose and patriotism. Yes, I liked it, but prefixed to precision,
I'll say planning.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So they are four piece to it.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Because I'm taking on what you've asked me how it
all happened. So twenty second April is a red letter
day of tragedy which took place. Proxy war terrorism has
inflicted numerous wounds in the Indian quality and the culprit
(18:42):
is Pakistan and park is supposed to be pure, but
their impurity practicing nation. So this shook the conscious when
twenty six husbands was snatched away from a dear women
(19:06):
wives with whom is the land of Durga Mata. It's
the land may be worship. So it shook the conscious
of the nation, across cast, across divisions, across old politics.
(19:30):
The nation wanted some action and the government got into action.
Prime Minister return from Saudi Arabia, gave an address in
Bihard on twenty fourth April, and that couple of sentences
which he took on in English, he messaged to the world,
(19:52):
India is on its feet, standing firm. India is now
with broad shoulders. I will take forward what my people want.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
That was the message.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And to the people he conveyed that we are with you.
There was impatience, they wanted action. Some would talk to
the Israeli type. But the same two templates cannot be
applied in different environment in different geographies, in different systems.
(20:27):
Israels well supported by the Western world, particularly America, India
supported by its self reliance. That's the difference. So it
was deliberated, and as it was being deliberated, there was
a CCS meeting. There was second one on twenty ninth April.
The first one was on I think twenty third April,
(20:48):
and in between twenty six April, there was the meeting
which was put on the media on all the TV channels.
The Prime Minister along with the service chiefs, the four
of them during the Chief of Defense style, his Defense
Minister and his National Security Advisor. What was that message?
Was it optics not to me? It was the message
(21:11):
to the world that if in Bihar water I address,
I am with my people and the people be with me.
It was here that my armed forces are with me,
my sod arm is with me, and I will convey
That was a great message because it went into the
(21:32):
world media. I'm not speaking to you, I'm speaking to
my own people. And this deliberation led when Pakistan knew
it is coming up. That Interswatered treaty a non kinetic measure.
I have said it was a master's troke. Whatever may
be the politics to it, whatever may be the thing
(21:53):
that China is threatening us. Yeah, they will also as
an upper reparance state try to, you know, cut off
water to us. We are not going to get scared.
Let me clarify her that China is an upper Raparian
state both to the Indus waters and to the Brahmputu
in the northeast. Yes, but we are not the lower Riparian.
(22:14):
China should know this. We are the middle Riparian. Yes,
lower aparian is on the Indus. Pakistan they friend their
ironclad friend, all weather friend, and now they're newly created
friend Bangladesh and Brahmaputra. They are the lower Riparian. So
China should know their steps well. India, with its culture
(22:38):
of patients, knows how to work its way out. Pakistan
has the advantage of geography. They're expiting that, and when
they're expliting that, they are also sandwiched between China and America. Yes,
so they will be hanging by the slender thread. So
(22:59):
then came them. When Pakistan knew that something is going
to happen, nothing was happening, and then mock till was planned. Yes,
the seventh May that was Southwestern Air Command was holding
an air excise and no time had been issued in
that early morning when I got up at five o'clock.
(23:22):
And first thing these days you do is you switch
on your weapon of war, which is of everyone the
mobile and I found Pakistan perhaps has been decimated. There
have been air strikes and nine targets long from pok
right to Bubble More.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I want to ask you when you're seeing this that
up until now the other prime ministers in different wars
we have been doing the commands were very different this time.
Is it the command that comes from the prime minister
that determines the nature of the operation that has held
How important is that directive related to the final strategy
(23:59):
that is held out? Because Uptila, we've never seen our
air forces come up to the space taking up to
the war of this kind unless it was a surgical
shride of U surgical strikes. So how does that flow?
That mechanism flows.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Well, I like to put in the right perspective. The
first lay, it's a democracy and we are a functional democracy.
But when I see in the normal way of life,
we are also a rowdy democracy. But the armed forces
have respected the institution of democracy and its constitution. And
(24:39):
in a democracy, the political directive is supreme, and that
political directive comes to the armed forces when a military
action is required, and then the military interprets it into
the strategic aspects, how to wage war, what targeting to do.
So to be fair, I will say in nineteen sixty five,
(25:02):
as Is two to Pakistan, they tried to repeat the
nineteen forty seven forty eight to occupy Kashmir a Jammu
and Kashmir.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So that time they used.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
The Kabalis, the Lushkas, irregulars, many in disguise because there
were many regular soldiers. Nineteen sixty five they again repeated
send radh Kars along with the army. Aim was again
try to somehow the other get the Kashmir into their fold.
(25:35):
But we had another great prime minister at that time.
He was Deshka Lal Lal Bahadur Shastri. When they did that,
and they came in the crew sector he a man
much shorter than me. Also Napoleonic heights said go to Lahore.
(26:00):
That is another a too ang of Pakistan, and Indian
military did not fail him. We reached outskirts of or Burkie,
the Battle of Burki and Battle of d Are in the.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
In the objective and the aim was to.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Go Pakistan then again asked for ceasefire that time. And
let me tell you well, air Force, I have to
be very fair to our sisters thing because I today
i'm bearing the colors of the three services when I
address on this podcast. They did a marvelous job. They
(26:38):
brought glory to us. We had the Gnats which were
old generation fighter aircrafts, Yes, and they've matched the American
F eighty six Sabagettes and down them. What else you
want for the skill of our air force? The the
daring of our air force, the dog fights Pakistan was annahlighted, yes,
(27:02):
nineteen seventy one war is a different story. Or air
force got is the air supremacy which today cannot be
achieved in any war. Russia has not been able to
even use it against Ukraine Israel for whatever they are
small country, I will say air will not really work
to that end. Nineteen seventy one was air supremacy totally
(27:24):
and Indian Army, Indian Armed Forces what they did thirteen
day war? Are you going to occupy a country?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So the directive was like that.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
The directive led them to.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It was a lightning strike.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Thirteen days across rivers.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
You occupied Dhaka.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
You make a left in general, the army commander the surrender,
and that left in general nazis seen whipping, actually whipping.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
What else can you do?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It was a Brits creak of its own kind and
we should be very proud. And so it was a
try service there. The Navy did a tremendous job off
the east coast as well on the western coast, and
Karachi was put in flames.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
They had cut off.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, so does the try service thing. So this yours
is your Indian Armed Forces. And then we came to
ninety nine Cargil. Yes, again it was treachery on part
of Pakistan. But I want to tell our Indian quolity.
I addressed to the Indian military. Okay, we should not
say if they are deceivers and that treachery. As a
(28:31):
military man, I know treachery is practiced. So I should
be on guard, I should be alert, I should be
two and a half steps ahead like.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Horses on the chessboots. So that is it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
But then when we went in Cargil, I being a
gunner from artillery, I can say my artillery the buffers delivered.
That delivered the ultimate destruction of Pakistan. And they had
to withdraw.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And so the directives and all these wars were to
go invade or to capture. But in this particular strike
back the directive.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Was in each case.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Now I gave you the directive political directive of Lal
Bad Shahsi did nineteen seventy one war Indra A Gandhi
also masters stroke of diplomacy first League Indo Soviet Peace
and Treaty Friendship which was signed.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yes, it was a back you had.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You had the elephant was riding high with a great
power on your back and it paid its role Soviet Union.
That's why Indos Russian friendship will remain alive in indoors
Soviet Russian friendship. I will say cooperation, strategic partnership will
(29:51):
remained supreme in the Indian polity. Oh, that was a
political directive. Liberate, Liberate is Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yes, liberated East Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
And so it was a war of liberation and we
did it and I said we had captured them. The
ninety three thousand.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
We were not looking for such directive. What was the
directive focused on? Was it to counter terrorism?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
No, that was it was liberate East Pakistan, borrowed liberation
for Bangladesh. Mudjiubar Rahman had won a landslide victory by
constitution rights of Pakistan. He should have been the prime
Minister of both Western East Pakistan and it was denied
to him. The people in Bangladesh East Pakistan, Bengalis were subjugated, massacred,
(30:37):
raped and what not. Atrocities committed on them and still
today very sad part of history after fifty oddiars. Today
they're standing up and trying to mend ways with the
perpetrates of the atrocities cruelties on them. The Pakistan state,
(30:57):
Bangladesh people will realize this been taken up a gum
tree by the wrong people, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
But coming back to the directives, now you're seeing political
directors design the operation strategy. Yeah, early so this time
in operations and also it is the political.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, I'll come to that. So in ninety nine. What happened.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
The Prime Minister that time gave a political directive fight
the war throughout the what we have called occupants were
there on the cargo heights. But political directive was do
not cross the line of control.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Okay, it was a very very tight directive. Neither the
air will go across, nor the military.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And create Indian armed forces be implemented the Prime minister
decorative in letter, spirit and word.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Now this time the political directive was counter terrorism. Prior
mister wanted to attend.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
To the terrorists.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
So the thing was non escalatory restraint, but target the
terrorists centers, terrorist camps which are the main feeders of
terrorists being sent across. And how was that political directive implemented?
(32:34):
As I said, it was brilliance. It was brilliance. It
was well oiled machinery planning. The first bee was supreme.
The Try Services, you see with the Chief of Defense Staff,
India has not been aspiring to become to create theater
commands the Tri Services Corporation. And for the last few
years now five years or so, you're working in that direction.
(32:57):
There have been wargames, they've been discussions, but Pakistan has
helped us in Knobsendur. I don't see in a very
short time we're going to have theater commands. Because it
has been now well oiled. We know what is required.
The Trice services were right up there. And that image
which you all have seen of the war room where
(33:19):
the four chiefs are sitting and taking control, monitoring and
directing the war, I think they did not need to
direct the war because the generals below, the formation commanders,
the theater commanders, the core and the division, they played
their role as it was identified to them. And mind you,
it remained a non contact warfare.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
What a great.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Performance from pok right down to Babelpur. Twenty one targets
nine addressed twelve are awaiting them. I like to say,
twelove awaiting them. They'll be given as a gift in
terms of firepoweratic delivery. If Pakistan crosses any line, then
(34:06):
some pashadha is awaiting them. Now, So that was the
first part.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Look at it.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
To address that precision your next point decision, targeting precision
guided munitionis used. It was hammer and scalp, not hammer
and tongs. It was hammer and scalp. The missiles and
the bombs that we had. You know, and of course
came into play on ninth, tenth and tenth May, the BrahMos,
(34:35):
the BrahMos, Brahmaputra and Moscow River. The word is derived
from that. And again the indoor Russian cooperation is supreme
out there. So we lived by that political directive and
operational execution.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The strategy it is quite sanctin it is very important.
Like you told me a story that how I think
the rio then and you would telling me that particular
anecdote on how important is your directive words which can
define what strategy it can go to? Like it is
such a nice story, I.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Think you recall to me that I can narrate it.
You see, the operational directive from the highest authority is
normally three words. The Soviet Union Stalin gave the director
to Marshall Zukov to captures Berlin.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Three words.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Now recalls to me that Mahabart story. And here it's
in the book The Difficulty of being Good by one
mister guarandas so the Rodana is the first chapter and
it is narrated likewise, Kevin. They are returning after visiting
the Indra Preshta yes Uh and his Mamu, his maternal
(35:58):
uncle Shakuni. And what happens there? He asked him, And
they're returning in the chariot okay Banja. I find that
your eyes are red and yours. Your belly is boiling.
What is the problem, he said? I cannot bear the
prosperity of the fund of us. I simply cannot bear it.
So he asked him, what do you want? He said,
(36:19):
I want destruction of fund of ours three words and
he implemented it. He asked him, how will you do it?
He said, very simple, the game of dice will work.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
So basically you was saying, how he said, led to it.
If you would have said I just want to invade in,
the situation would have changed. But knowing that this kind
of operation also has a humanitarian undertone, how important and
difficult gets for the military and the army to focus
on their precision strategy keeping the civilians in check that
(36:53):
they are protected as much. What is that part of
the decision making and the strategy falls in place, as
you can help us understand. Once the directive comes, it
comes or it is in the hands of the operational strategies.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I would like to also cover the political directive here
because the thing is in print right now. But my
own interpretation is destroyed terror centers three words. And that's
how the military missionary got into action. We did not
you have addressed the word human train here. We did
(37:28):
not as a nation, wanted to cause any civilian casualties,
any collateral damage. We didn't want to address the military
targets or the military wayby. We conveyed a great message,
a great message that it is non escalatory, it is restrained.
(37:54):
Listen and understand to our signal was the message to
Pakistan restraint and non escalatory. And this message also went
up to the global community. Okay, what India wants, we
want destruction of the terrorist centers. Because the world has
(38:15):
forgotten today, memories are very short. United States did not
play up to the Indian concerns before nine to eleven. Yes, okay,
what is terrorism? When it happened, then America went in,
came into Middle East, Afghanistan, and it became.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
A global war on terrorism.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Now, since those actions have not taken place, a few
take place in Europe and epicenter and the root of it,
whether it was the United States which was targeted in
nine to eleven or Europe and this thing, whether it's
the London Tube or in Spain or anywhere else in Germany,
the roots have been in the epicenter of terrorism.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yes, the world has got short memories. They want to forget.
India is saying we are fighting you war and they
have shown little silence. When Operations Indure was launched. There
will be a wake up call for them.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
But how does it get difficult when you're making such
strategies to take care that civilians are in the safeguard
Like you said, it has to been on escalator. Also,
how much of that civilian aspect has to be into
the minds of the military and the army when they
strategize and how do they work around it? You have
a pressure, it's a heavy pressure situation. How does it operate?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
So your theme precision along with purpose. Yes, precision, whether planning,
whether identifying the weapon systems.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Which we are going to use.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
They gave you, okay, we will only address the terrorists.
They're not civilians for us. They are our enemies. They're
the ones who are beating us. And it was identified
so it did not matter whether they were in Subana
La Masque there because by name infrastructure it is suban
(40:13):
a la mosque. In practice it was the terrorists hideout
then like that, so we addressed them. So there were
no civilian casualties as such.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
In the counter attack, we had to protect our civilians
as well. So there was a yes.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
You see now when you say that we have not
addressed anything on night sixth seventh May, yes, and seventh
eighth May, Pakistan did not receive the signaling correctly, and
they came to us with their messiahs and drones and
all they try to, you know, retaliate. They wanted to
(40:50):
show to the domestic audience that we can retaliate. So
when they came, our systems played up our air force,
our a defense system. And let me tell you here,
our air defense has turned out to be the shield
of the nation. It is the true shield.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Of the nation. What marvelous job they have done.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Integrated air command and control system, combination of a force
and the army along with navy were required. Four laid
defense system combined with an excellent command, a command controlled
and reporting system with a cash thise, certain weapon systems.
(41:33):
I'll come along this thing. But each one of them played,
you know, the air force system, the patora missiles, the
our cap you know, combat air patrols in the air
are a wax. They were all there to protect, protect,
and then the Air Force missile system, then our air
defense missile systems you know, and a cash both with
(41:56):
the Air Force and the Army did a tremendous job.
And why specially mentioned a Kash It is indigenous. It
is indigenous. Yes, and the director, doctor Plada Ramao. I
happened to meet him now just about I think fifteen
(42:18):
days back. I was sitting with him and I had
a talk with him. Firstly, I felt it's a great
honor to meet a man. He was the director of
Akash and he told me before he went and talked
on the stage, he said, you know, I told a
colleague who joined Okay, look our boss is doctor Abdul
(42:40):
Kamara Kalam. And he said he heard it. So he
called him. He said, listen, I'm not your boss. Do
you know who's your boss?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So he was quiet.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Kalam told him Akash is your boss. And he said
I lived my life thereafter. Akash is my boss. That
great man who also became President of India. Yes, he
done bundles and here it is man acknowledging him.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So cash is a great system.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Is a world beater. It will be a part of
the nations asking for it. And then we head back
to Russia the S four hundred.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yes, besides, everybody is inquisitive about this great Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
It's a great system. And our own look at the
Indian mind. I would like to say, Juguard, you know
Juguard Pield Marshall Slim in his book Defeating to Victory
he was the commander of the fourteenth Army in Burma
campaign British Indian Army. He wrote in his book that
(43:53):
Indians are masters. The Indian master of innovation, innovation, Hindi
is Jugar and Jaguar. The many books England today practices
Jugard as a as a syllabi in some of the places. Okay,
what is this Indian mind? So it worked l seventy
(44:16):
guns which are more than fifty years old.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Are generals.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I give credit to the air defense. I give credit
to the research and development. They upgraded it. They upgraded it.
And in the instant case Amrisavi evol seen how Pakistan
is believed to have tried to target the Golden Temple. Also,
and I can believe that because in punch they destroyed
(44:48):
part of Nagali Sauwara, which is the seat of the Jain.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Case seeks yes, and they address some mustard said it's
some temple. So if they're.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Trying to do that, then all the system came into practice.
They're upholding the sanctity of the sanctum center of the
Golden Temple and to.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
The world it's a revered rever supertan.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
With this kind of a display of our system, defense
system and the great missiles you have mentioned, supersonic missiles
we own, can we say we're going to turn around
our boat from being an importer in the defense market
to an exporter. Do you see that we can work
that vision or at least look at that part now.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Okay, but before that, you know I had not completed.
I'll just want to tell you that air defense I
covered only the air defense across from buche Cutch right
up to the Kashmir area was covered by our air defense.
Not a single damage caused. They drones, their missiles were
(45:57):
all intercepted and destroyed. A defense lent the turning point
to the war, asked me how there was a further
two missile which was fired which was intercepted on ninth
(46:18):
May or no, on the tenth of May in the
morning at SISA targeting Delhi. That drew the red line
and the turning point for that was served by our
a defense and the turning point the window of opportunity,
(46:43):
the strategic flexibility, the strategic resilience, the leadership which came
to the for the military leadership. They then on tenth
May decimated Pakistan military basis a basis the Nur Khan
which is as close to Rawal Pindi. And then it
(47:04):
turns out that Karana Hills, yes, which Americans got worried.
They must answer us why they got so much worried.
The nation wants to know from America why they got
so much worried about Karana Hills. So what India did
that daytime strikes the promos, What a massive.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Display of leadership, military leadership.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
And when you know you're saying this military leadership, yes,
I will say it's a fine tuning with the political leadership.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I want to know this in these kind of operations,
the strait of military leadership, what is that as indispensable
or non negotiable from your point of view, which you
said was the turning point, right window for opportunity, the
sinking tuning between the political directive and they taking the
call I in this moment that they recognize now we're
(47:57):
gonna remove their pieces. How does this work? Does that
treat which is non negotiable?
Speaker 2 (48:01):
And what is non negotiable in leadership, whether it is
political or military, is resoluteness, firmness, sticking to your aim
and if that aim requires some flexibility, yes, with an
instant seconds in this in the centric warfare, you know
(48:29):
what we call the network centric warfare. It has to
be instantaneous. It is not to be isolationists. It has
not to be linear cam checking out what is to
be done.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
And that's how it happened. And that is why leadership
has to be absolutely these.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Are non negotiable terms. It's my military operation. It is
non negotiable. I Am not going to turn left or
right until unless the situation so demands. And that is
what delivered the goods. And the Prime mister having said
that he's given a freehand to the services, I'd say,
still an interplay. Then you are a free hand. Doesn't
(49:05):
mean that I can go helter skelter It is an
interactive thing where I say I'm doing this and the
signal is go ahead, you do it. You're delivering them.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
There is no war in between. They have to be
in on the same page as quickly as they can.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Absolutely, and you have to repeat that other previous question
because I wanted to cover the I will.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Come to that because you've led me to what we
want to go and sync with is about after this
sink in leadership treat because that is important for us
to know what trait is important we want to know
about the narrative control and the information warfare. How important
it is study to understand this narrative control information warfare?
How do we play around it?
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Okay, it's a very good question.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Again, And because see we are in the as you
spoke about technology evolution in our artillery system evolution and
our missize and how it helped us to grow in
our approach to war, it is important to know how
digitalization and computerization all this world is also playing a
role in the warfare that we're talking about, information warfare.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
And Quie must compliment you and you take a rabbit
out from your sleeve and come out with some very
good fresh.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Questions because your content is so intriguing and your talks
are so intriguing that I have to make sure that
I don't leave you with that thought.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Okay, now you see today narrative has found a very place,
I would say top place in war. It matters wars.
The victory and defeat is also not on ground and space.
(50:49):
It is also now being measured in this current context
of new era warfare in terms of the narrative control. Yes,
I would like to comparetive control. How good a job
our lawyers do when truth and lies are submerged into
one like sangam and you do not know what is
(51:12):
truth or lies? Narrative control is something like that. I'm
putting it in the simplest terms, This warfare has reached
a error that it is not measured in occupying territory.
It is not measured in taking surrenders. It is not
measured how many kills I've had. It really does not matter.
(51:36):
It's not the kill. It is what my long term
aim is in military. Also, if it was terrorists, how
long this killing of terrorists will keep the heads down
in terrorists? Why related to terrorists? Because that was our mission?
Primist algiers said, we've rooted out, but there are two
(51:58):
steps ahead in rooting it out. We destroyed the terrorist camps.
They're still existing by that existing because the mother rassas
have created two three generations to come. Yes, terrorists. It
is the Frankenstein which the state, the deef state Pakistan
(52:18):
is SI and the army have created to root them out.
Is a is a business of pakistanis because they're beating
snakes in their backyard.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Now, with having said this, there is an ideologue behind it.
The leaders in this case the Pakistan military, the ISI,
led by their Field Marshal today, supported by the puppets,
the Prime Minister and others. But then there is the
(52:50):
ideology in terrorism. Yes, so defeating that, routing that out
is the work in hand which Indian.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
State has to live with it. Yes, you know, sometimes
you have to live.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, you cannot select your parents, you know, So India
has to live with its neighbors. So with this backdrop,
I would say the narrative control Pakistan. Those terrorist camps
are destroyed on first night, but they come out the
next day and they give a narrative. Get they're down
(53:24):
five of aircraft's. They have done this this much of
damages I've been done in India, and that is where
in our aura of having destroy the terrorist camps, I
think our narrative control missed a bus at that time.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
We should have retaliated. You know.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
We came up later showing satellite images and that there
was some French this thing who tried to depict the thing.
But there are two couple of great writeops which have
come from the King's College. There's one professor Walter Ldwig.
He's covered it very well and he said if there
are losses or damages, so be it.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
India has achieved its same. Wow, King this College, British,
that's a.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
Great way to give back to their narrative control in
giving the right that we aimed be achieved.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
So you can build up around the Tom Cooper which
is there who's said that it is not so. Yes,
so see and then they were the narrative. The Chinese
aircraft has beaten the French revel the j T and
C versus Rafel.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
It is not so, it is not so. You know,
it is very important to control the narratives and information warfare.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
So the narrative control becomes that much more important. And well,
I think the lesson in this is in the narrative
control or narrative warfare. That strategic communication I call it
rategy communication is paramount in today's world to show what
(55:06):
you have done. It is not I go and put
a flag on such a glacier today I've occupied it,
or the Cargill Heights, or I go on Mount Everest
and plant the Indian flag there. That is symbolic. Along
this symbolism has to be the digital representation or showing
(55:29):
what is actual. And that is where strategic communication assumes
great importance. And with my due difference, I want to
say to the people who matter, they have to attend
to it. The perception is formed very early through communication.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
And media discourse.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And media discourse, you know all that. So this perception
which is formed early has to be now controlled and
for that we have taken steps. We have sent up
Parliament to delegation. Yes, and how they can tell the world. Okay,
what it was why this Operation Sindur was launched. It
(56:15):
was launched with no collateral damage. Yes, we respected humanitarian
It was the human titarian effort which is so dear
to us, you know, it is so dear to us.
And so what is the lesson in the narrative control.
I will also tell what other lessons in the ops
indur per se is. This is part of Absendur that
(56:37):
at the national level we should legislate a body.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Which controls strategic communication.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Yes, and that body should have members from across the field,
the foreign service, the bureaucracy, the military, the scientific thing,
behavioral sciences, psychologists, the legal luminaries, you know, influences which
(57:09):
are there today on your Twitter. So we need all
these people so that we should be on ball on
this right from the time when we started preparation for Obsendur.
And Pakistan is a master of lies and propaganda. You know,
there was doctor Goebbels in the Hitler's Germany, the furor
(57:32):
the Nazi Germany, and doctor Goebels was supposed to be
the propaganda master who was unsurpassed in his time. We
have to be the grand daddy of doctor Goebels in
the times to come, so that we beat Pakistan in
the game and we beat China. They are another master
of disinformation. Yes, So that is the importance of narrative
(57:55):
warfare and we must, we must do it. And I'm
sure the delegations you're gone will return with an achievement
where India will be back in the narrative. Also because
we are speaking the truth. Yes, but truth today is
the first casualty. It is said in war and in
peace also, Yes, So we have to defeat the lie
(58:20):
with our truths.
Speaker 1 (58:21):
That's the message I'm giving here.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
And if you want to ask me about operations Hindura,
I think there's a lot of lessons come out and
that I.
Speaker 3 (58:30):
Think operations in the message you've given me in every step,
because every step you have defined, you've given me a
message what we should take back from it. But I
want to know as a country we have a leader. Now,
how important you are from military army background. You are
a major general, you know it. How important it is
for the India inc. The next generation to have a
(58:51):
leader with that and a military discipline together to make
this country go robust. What is your take on the
new India with what kind of discipline character we should
be walking ahead? Because it is not just about one operation.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
So when you're saying youth, it is the youth.
Speaker 3 (59:09):
It is the startup world we have. It is everything
because economy is playing as important a role for us
as much as to be robust on our borders and
defend the boundaries. So what kind of leadership, military discipline,
leadership quality or how important it is to have that
(59:29):
today to win over the world as a whole.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
And answered this question the one question missed up.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
It was very dear to me and different.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
That is armament you said, armament export and important.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Yes, we will come back. I have not forgotten that.
I know there you will be giving me a real importance.
But this is important for me to know. Yes, where
the leadership, because you've kept on saying during our whole
operation execution that there was a great thing between the
political world and the executioner, the army chief in the
(01:00:04):
operation team. That sink in is very important. So when
we're running a country, that leadership sinking of the quality
of a military man is also important.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You see that we are having a leader who is
taken forward the mission or making India great. Yes, and
that mission is very much there. We are seeing how
it is paying up in our infrastructure, in our taking
(01:00:35):
the development forward, in our military defense acquisitions also which
I imply also the other nearby defense. The India has
been counted as a fulcrum. I say because of its
strategic autonomy in the JEO strategic geopolitical field was one
(01:00:58):
example of it. We took the nations long and we
took Russias on board to their satisfaction, so that the
nations of the G twenty fell in line. Not that
is leadership, the firm, leadership and the other things. And
they are always busses and minuses in the nation's life
which take place. Not to the India ink the youth.
(01:01:21):
You are also a youth.
Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
The messages.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Be shoulder to shoulder, do what you can do for India,
and don't ask what India is doing for you. It
is the words I'm repeating of what John F. Kennedy
had said, don't ask, don't ask what American can do
for you. Tell what you can do for America. But
I am repeating those words, do for India. So I
(01:01:52):
think that you have got a lot of space our startups. Yes,
is a major space. And I tell you the youth
is doing a tremendous job.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
I gave a couple of.
Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Talks and leadership and some places and there the organizers
had honored the startup people. In one place they were
eight of them, and an they were about ten to twelve. Yes,
and I was startled and felt proud because such good
work is being done by startups, pioneering work. Yes, and
(01:02:27):
I'll give you example of our drones itself.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Today. There are about five.
Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Hundred and fifty firms perhaps making drones across the field.
Whether it is agriculture, industry, medical and all that, I
don't know. And out of that it'll be safe for
me to say about thirty percent of them are in
the defense.
Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yes, So we're making thrones.
Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Of all kinds, camiicas, killer drones, the likes of them,
the reconnaissance, surveillance.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
So if they.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Are there, that's a message con get up and start
doing the young youth. You know, there's a story if
that a horse can pull one point five times its weight.
So if it is a horse, is fifteen hundred cages,
so it can take up to two point five tons,
(01:03:26):
and if there are two, it does not double up.
It multiplies multiplier, and if they are for it multiplies.
And those are the draft horses. Incidentally, Yes, so be
those draft horses be shoulder to shoulder, make the chain
(01:03:47):
and pull along together. Let's take India forward. Let's not
only talk. Let's take India forward. I tell people when
I'm here in the rw is then all also that
on independence they're public, they're doing the flag till I said, listen,
please come out, don't be in your beds.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Be proud of India.
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
We should not remember it only when we see a
big operation happen. I think it should become the fashion
that we were with pride and.
Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Not just in This is my message to the youth.
Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
But I will not let it go with that one
story that we have one important understanding. We want to
know about the defense we turning from importer to exporter.
Will this steer around? And how what is your look
into it? And how long can we take on that?
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
The Atham Nirba defense which has come up has also
come up in other fields. Yes, but Athamnurbur defense is
very important. I want to tell the nation. I want
to tell the viewers that no nation has become a
great power which is not a major armament exporter. The
(01:05:07):
big tickets in armaments and defense is our aim and
should be. Yes, we want to be a big power.
We got the economy backing it. Yes, So when the
economy is backing it, I want to appeal to the
decision makers to the government machinery raise our defense budget
(01:05:30):
two percent is ancient.
Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Make it three point five percent.
Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Your R and D should get forty percent of that
the increase because that is where you're going to design,
develop and produce. I'll give an example. Look, we are
wanting to make aircrafts, the stealth aircrafts, but we are
not making air engines. Design, develop, do that. Aq Khan
(01:05:57):
was supposed to be in Pakistan bag borrow steel is
said he stold the nuclear secrets, but it was also
that it was latently done along with support of China
and America. So we must come up with air engines,
is my main thing to say. Because once we have
got that, then we are not going to look for
(01:06:17):
fifth We're not going to look for F thirty five
or you know Jay twenty of China and even SU
fifty seven. Yes, we need that, but at the moment
we need support. No should armament exporter and where is
India and that we are right on ball.
Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
We are right on ball.
Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
And how look I think about two years back we
had armament exports worth seventeen thousand corons. Yes, last year
or the current year at twenty three thousand coroors. Yes,
so we are going it is and it will double up.
You'll see next year it will not be. It will
be at least one point five times. And maybe they're
(01:06:57):
they're small assemblies in that enough when I say small
assemblies and all, even we're exporting to America, they should
remember that.
Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Supersonic missiles I looked out for as you said, so.
Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Yeah, you see.
Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Now look what are bramos is world beater two point
eight up to three max. Four fifty kilometers you know,
can't be detected accuracy one meter of its circular are probability.
You're Akash, you're Teja's, you're all coming up. And I'm
(01:07:30):
sure you see your ins karanth, your nuclear submarines. It
is not only the military or artillery right on all
you know one fifty five fifty two caliber Baba Klani
bath Forge World Beta will be exporting artillery guns to
the world. The orders will come as it will be
(01:07:51):
there for Brumos. There are seventeen countries lined up they
want to buy off us. You're already exporting of some
of these equipment to our Mania and Philippines have got
the promos. Tejas has been asked for my nations. I'm
sure it will come up. US should cooperate. We have
got into a strategic partnership with them. They're delayed supplying
US A four zero four engines. They should should be
(01:08:12):
a wake up call if you have got a comprehensive
strategic partnership. One one presidential quote or talk will not
change the American strategic partnership, which is en route to greatness.
That's the message I am giving to America. Also in
my small capacity.
Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Thank you so much, Major General. There's so much more
to talk. If I could spend more time with you,
I would now want to move on to you know,
knowing the operations indur in the country and our army strategy,
to knowing you much more, much better into your journey.
But we want to leave that for the next conversation
we have because I'm sure if we're going to have
a trial of podcasts coming up soon with you to
(01:08:57):
understand how it really makes you the person you are.
You gave us what you are, but we want to
go on the journey of knowing how you became who
you are, so it really gets us into the understanding
of the deep route. So thank you so much to
not just let us into operations in Duba, let us
into the mind of a military man, army man, a
man who's decorated with so much of rewards and awards
(01:09:19):
and accolades, and you decorate us.
Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
I only want to say one thing. I'm the small
person that I am, and I'm a very proud Indian
and with you all are also and be a proud Indian.
Let's make our country great, make India great, is my
last message.
Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
And Jahan, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
And we hold our army with pride every day from
now on. It should not be only limited to the
achievements that we see on the front, on the borders,
in the front.
Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you very much. Unku.
Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
It's been an honor to be with you. It's been
very stimulating. It's been very stimulating.
Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
I did not know the.
Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Volley of questions which are going to come in between,
and some of them I think I was just yeah,
unanswered in full capacity.
Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Yes, But we get more, we get more time. I'm
sure we're looking forward to more sessions with you and
we're going to go back to each one of them
and death.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Thank you, thank you so much.
To be a soldier.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I want to tell the viewers is the greatest pride
which one carries from the top general right down to
the junior most Javan. We are all soldiers and we
(00:22):
carry the Nama Nishan of our Pultan, of our army.
I would like to vote here a line from that
great strategist Clausewitz is the Prussian general.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
He said that war.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Is the continuation of politics by other means. Even Chanakya
was in the same mold when we came back. We
came back with ninety three thousand prisoners of war and
these prisoners of war were treated as soldiers as we
treat our own soldiers. They tried to repeat the nineteen
(01:03):
forty seven forty eight to occupy Kashmir in Keshmir, so
that time they use the Kabalis, the lush Cus. Whether
it's the London Tube or in Spain or anywhere else
in Germany. The roots have been in the epicenter of
terrorism Pakistan. Yes, so the world has got short memories.
(01:24):
They want to forget. India is saying we are fighting
your war. Let's take India forward on independence. They are
public they're doing the flag. Brill I said listen, please
come out, don't be in your beds.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Be proud of India.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
So Mejia General. I mean, I'm addressing you like that
because I think you have more to hold on to
your designation, to your awards and decoration you carry. But honestly,
it's a privilege one not just because you gave me
this time and I'm here to speak to you of
something which is of our interest now as an Ashar interest,
but also because it is my first time in life
(02:03):
that I'm dating this moment to sit with someone who
has actually lived his life in the true sense we say,
live it for the country or live it for the
true values of us being what we are. So with
that regard, thank you so much. Thank you for making
this time.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well uncle, I'm very much honored to be there on
India Podcast. And I understand your government approved, so you
have a standing of your own and for which I
must congratulate you for your diligence to have reached that level.
And for me, it's a great honor and an honor
a man who spent almost four decades in uniform. And
(02:41):
if I take my education breackground to the Russian in
military college, it spans to nearly forty seven years of
my life in uniform, So one lived in uniform and
the blood, sweat and honor is all for this country birth.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
What makes you feel that you know, we always want
to know us civilians. We always say it's our army man,
we have that pride. But I don't know how army
man feels within that uniform. Is it little baggaged? Is
it a thing that you take a responsibility with a
lot of pain, with a lot of grit. What is
that feeling that brings that runs through you which we
(03:24):
don't really understand, but we feel proud of you.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
To be a soldier. I want to tell the viewers.
Is the greatest pride which one carries. It's the pride
of your uniform. It's the pride that you shoulder the
burden of national security of your country within you. And
it is the tarunga which is so dear to us
(03:53):
when we hold it aloft, when we plant it on
Cargill Heights, and likewise doing wars. It has a special
civil significance. It matters a lot, you see, and a soldier.
When I say a soldier, I address this from the
top general right down to the junior most Javan.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
We are all soldiers.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
And we carry the na Namak Nishan of our Pultan,
of our army as the dearest to us.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Now that is army.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It is also said in Hindi jasbah nasha to be
a soldier. So I think we lived our lives like
that and we don't retire. I am a veteran by name,
but I'm a soldier at heart, and you never retire.
(04:48):
You serve the nation in whatever capacity. And I'm here
before you today to project once again our nation in
it all is great form, whether it is war or
whether it is economy, whether it is a diplomacy, India
is a great country.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And I say this.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
True to my heart.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I would like to know that we cannot just limit
the understanding of a soldier or army only to war
or warfare scenario. But I think they understand the other
aspect of the country as well. Is it a wholesome
understanding when you're trained into it, you're given a wholesome
understanding of existence of our nation, or it is just
related to the techniques and strategies of the war, of
(05:33):
how to protect the country, how to protect the borders.
Is it limited in that box. So is it unlimited
knowledge and understanding economically, defense, your national culture, everything, every
aspect of as we civilians should be aware. How deep
is that knowledge and training of our army.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I think it's a very good question. And this question
is to me, is identifying you and me to the
nation to the viewers? Well, firstly I said, it's a democracy.
So this democracy is your army. It's a democratic country.
It is your army, it's your armed forces, it's your military,
(06:12):
and we serve the nation both for his external threat
and for his internal security. So we guard the borders,
we guard.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
The internal security.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
And you all have seen kit is not only war.
Indian military has been to the fore you realize when
they're monsoon floods, their earthquakes in Ourakhan, we have had
so many debacles which have taken place. Who's in the
forefront at that time? It is your military, be it
(06:42):
the air force, be it the army, be it the navy, marcos.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
You see.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So army is there to uphold the national security, both
internal and external. And we are twenty four to seven
in service of the nation. Army military doesn't switch off.
There are no holidays. Our holidays are that we serve
(07:07):
you and that is our Nussia.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So that is it you.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
No military is all pervading in the lives of bath
in India. You take away the military and you know, okay,
what is the vacuum which takes place? And no country
in the world, I want to say, no country in
the world has such service being given by their military
(07:37):
internal and external security. Whether it is countance, agency, proxy, war,
counter terrorism, terrorism, we are there, whether it is Jamu
and Kashmir, whether.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It is Northeast, we are there.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
And the nation I would appeal to the countrymen and
country women be aware of this. We are very proud
of our country people, and you in return give us
back that that is what the military values most.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
You know, such a bigger operation Sindor has been executed
by our country now which has come to more. It
came as a realization shocked to everyone. It did not
come in the face in a good scenario. It came
after the Paralgum, the most you know, shocking incident or
a tragic incident that happened. So obviously this strike back
(08:29):
approach which we had in operations in there one I
want you to make us understand how do we look
at this operation? Is it a war attack, is it
a counter attack? Is it a parlem revenge or is
it just a surgical strike? What is the right way
to understand any move by the country and term it
right because that understanding of the right term. We went
(08:51):
into a war, we went into an operation of what
kind will help us take it forward? To understand how
should we located strategically? And if you can plain the
operational Shindu strategic movement, was it a good strategy or
was it a good comeback defense attack from the country.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
You're putting very good questions and I like it. Operations Sindhu.
I should define it as the awakening of Barth. It
broke away from the past. We have broken away from
(09:32):
the past of a defensive mindset. We have created a
deterance of a kind which not only Pakistan, but the
world is looking at.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
What is India? What is Barath?
Speaker 2 (09:49):
And I tell you, when the annals of military history
will be written, Operations Sindhu will stand out one of
cuts grit and determination from the top, the political hierarchy,
the determination and the firm signaling from the military point
(10:13):
of view, the synergy, the strategic content which was there
and the delivery it has been absolutely I would say top.
It has been well coordinated. It has conveyed what it
was aimed to convey. As we go along, I will
(10:33):
explain also what was operations Sindur. But I would like
to quote here a line from that great strategist closets
is the Prussian general in the German Army. He said
that war is the continuation of politics by other means.
(10:58):
Even Chanakya was in the same mold. Now when we
say that, what does it involved? War's the continuation, so
it is continuing. Here I would like to define nature
of war and character of war. Nature of war is
a permanent why because war is violent, war is destructive,
(11:25):
war is misery. So the nature of war doesn't change
the character of war. War changes the forms change why
because technology comes in. Okay, So I've taken forward from
closewits to nature and character of war. And here I'm
(11:45):
reminded of Elvin.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Toffler the waves.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
He said how the human society evoluted. The first wave
was in a we're in the stone age. Then came
the bows and arrows. Yes, so it was brain versus braun,
and Braun was the supremo of that time. Then the
(12:09):
second wave came with the introduction of the locomotives. If
you recall it was the Industrial Revolution, yes, and when
this industrial revolution set in, alongside developed the military. If
my weapon was a stone and the bows and arrows
and spears, now came the machine guns, the rifles, you know,
and the brain started thinking that if I got a rifle,
(12:32):
a machine gun, and I'm going to fight, so I
must dig and dig down in the trenches to protect.
And when I fired, I stood up and went down
in the trenches. And as you evlated into the twentieth century,
then came the tanks. Yes, the tank warfare set in.
The machine guns had already been there, so they a
(12:53):
tank gave the mobility, took the mobility forward from the horsemen,
from the cavalier cavalier to the cavalier became an armored
core tank guy. And the utterery then started firing from
those cannons, the guns which were more technical, which became
indirect firing. Earlier they were direct firing. Yes, now you
(13:15):
could not see the target, but now that's how the
guns were delivering. And the third wave came during this time,
I would say the second warlbar when it became the
atomic age, when the nuclear bomb was used, and alongside
came the computers. So that was the third wave. Now
I think we are in the fourth and fifth wave.
As Alvin Toffler said, give the time and space keeps contracting.
(13:38):
Was the change of the society and of the system.
So now the weapon systems and the human thing. So
the second wave was brain and brawn even doubt balanced
the third wave onwards, the brain started getting the priority,
(13:59):
became more aggressive, and the bronze started going down. So
because you're sitting in computer stations, you're you're sitting back.
War is not fought even from war rooms.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yes, the doorst level is.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Functioning behind to give you logistics support sitting on the
computer desk in the operations room. So the brain is
now supreme, but bronz cannot be taken away.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Why I say that because the.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Indian military or the military has to be physically fit.
If you're physically fit, you're robust, and if you're robust,
then you're mentally agile. So I've taken you forward on.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
This how it has evolved, evolved.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
And I can cover operations in by itself.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
So talking about how it evolved into the Wave three.
Now you're seeing operations. Indur has come to that evolved
state of the war where artillery evolution has really helped.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Well.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Utlati is one component of of all warfare. You see,
the warfare has changed its character many times. Yes, the
First World War was different, the Second World War was different.
Our nineteen sixty two sixty five War sixty two with
China was different. The character was different, the sixty five war,
(15:23):
the nineteen seventy one war, the character of war was
totally different. The conventional war in its brilliance where Pakistan
was defeated and East Pakistan became Bangladesh.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
It was a.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
History created in military history in the world annals a
country being created as large as Bangladesh, a large population
and the greatness of the Indian culture in war came
out when we gave back East Pakistan as Bangladesh to
(16:02):
the government of Bangladesh and came back. And when we
came back, we came back with ninety three thousand.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Prisoners of war.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And these prisoners of war were treated as soldiers as
we treat our own soldiers. The Army Chief that time,
General Manikshaw later Pield Marshall. He said, they'll be treated
as my men. I make this point because there's a
human terran anger in this yes, and what he conveyed
(16:38):
was that these prisoners of war and the men will
not sleep on floor. And when they were being repatriated
they were officers, the junior commission officers and men. They said,
if we were part of your army, we would have
been the victors. It is our officers who have defeated us.
(17:02):
And that story of Pakistan continues. Their generals are defeating
their nation. They are not taking them forward, they are
taking them forward in.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Hate and violence.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So that's what I mean. We started with Operations Sindhur,
but we are really region now.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
But that is very nice. While come back to this
because when you define how our army treats war, I
think that also defines how we look at the whole
idea of hosting or conducting or taking our operations, because
our approach is very different when we go there.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Let me say what is very close to my heart
at this moment, and that is that Operations Indure was
brilliance sonified on the parts.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Of both our political.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
System, our leaders and our military commanders.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
It was a great operation.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Now your theme which you sent to me was precision,
purpose and patriotism. Yes, I liked it, but prefixed to precision,
I'll say planning.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So they are four piece to it.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Because I'm taking on what you've asked me how it
all happened. So twenty second April is a red letter
day of tragedy which took place. Proxy war terrorism has
inflicted numerous wounds in the Indian quality and the culprit
(18:42):
is Pakistan and park is supposed to be pure, but
their impurity practicing nation. So this shook the conscious when
twenty six husbands was snatched away from a dear women
(19:06):
wives with whom is the land of Durga Mata. It's
the land may be worship. So it shook the conscious
of the nation, across cast, across divisions, across old politics.
(19:30):
The nation wanted some action and the government got into action.
Prime Minister return from Saudi Arabia, gave an address in
Bihard on twenty fourth April, and that couple of sentences
which he took on in English, he messaged to the world,
(19:52):
India is on its feet, standing firm. India is now
with broad shoulders. I will take forward what my people want.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
That was the message.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And to the people he conveyed that we are with you.
There was impatience, they wanted action. Some would talk to
the Israeli type. But the same two templates cannot be
applied in different environment in different geographies, in different systems.
(20:27):
Israels well supported by the Western world, particularly America, India
supported by its self reliance. That's the difference. So it
was deliberated, and as it was being deliberated, there was
a CCS meeting. There was second one on twenty ninth April.
The first one was on I think twenty third April,
(20:48):
and in between twenty six April, there was the meeting
which was put on the media on all the TV channels.
The Prime Minister along with the service chiefs, the four
of them during the Chief of Defense style, his Defense
Minister and his National Security Advisor. What was that message?
Was it optics not to me? It was the message
(21:11):
to the world that if in Bihar water I address,
I am with my people and the people be with me.
It was here that my armed forces are with me,
my sod arm is with me, and I will convey
That was a great message because it went into the
(21:32):
world media. I'm not speaking to you, I'm speaking to
my own people. And this deliberation led when Pakistan knew
it is coming up. That Interswatered treaty a non kinetic measure.
I have said it was a master's troke. Whatever may
be the politics to it, whatever may be the thing
(21:53):
that China is threatening us. Yeah, they will also as
an upper reparance state try to, you know, cut off
water to us. We are not going to get scared.
Let me clarify her that China is an upper Raparian
state both to the Indus waters and to the Brahmputu
in the northeast. Yes, but we are not the lower Riparian.
(22:14):
China should know this. We are the middle Riparian. Yes,
lower aparian is on the Indus. Pakistan they friend their
ironclad friend, all weather friend, and now they're newly created
friend Bangladesh and Brahmaputra. They are the lower Riparian. So
China should know their steps well. India, with its culture
(22:38):
of patients, knows how to work its way out. Pakistan
has the advantage of geography. They're expiting that, and when
they're expliting that, they are also sandwiched between China and America. Yes,
so they will be hanging by the slender thread. So
(22:59):
then came them. When Pakistan knew that something is going
to happen, nothing was happening, and then mock till was planned. Yes,
the seventh May that was Southwestern Air Command was holding
an air excise and no time had been issued in
that early morning when I got up at five o'clock.
(23:22):
And first thing these days you do is you switch
on your weapon of war, which is of everyone the
mobile and I found Pakistan perhaps has been decimated. There
have been air strikes and nine targets long from pok
right to Bubble More.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I want to ask you when you're seeing this that
up until now the other prime ministers in different wars
we have been doing the commands were very different this time.
Is it the command that comes from the prime minister
that determines the nature of the operation that has held
How important is that directive related to the final strategy
(23:59):
that is held out? Because Uptila, we've never seen our
air forces come up to the space taking up to
the war of this kind unless it was a surgical
shride of U surgical strikes. So how does that flow?
That mechanism flows.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Well, I like to put in the right perspective. The
first lay, it's a democracy and we are a functional democracy.
But when I see in the normal way of life,
we are also a rowdy democracy. But the armed forces
have respected the institution of democracy and its constitution. And
(24:39):
in a democracy, the political directive is supreme, and that
political directive comes to the armed forces when a military
action is required, and then the military interprets it into
the strategic aspects, how to wage war, what targeting to do.
So to be fair, I will say in nineteen sixty five,
(25:02):
as Is two to Pakistan, they tried to repeat the
nineteen forty seven forty eight to occupy Kashmir a Jammu
and Kashmir.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
So that time they used.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
The Kabalis, the Lushkas, irregulars, many in disguise because there
were many regular soldiers. Nineteen sixty five they again repeated
send radh Kars along with the army. Aim was again
try to somehow the other get the Kashmir into their fold.
(25:35):
But we had another great prime minister at that time.
He was Deshka Lal Lal Bahadur Shastri. When they did that,
and they came in the crew sector he a man
much shorter than me. Also Napoleonic heights said go to Lahore.
(26:00):
That is another a too ang of Pakistan, and Indian
military did not fail him. We reached outskirts of or Burkie,
the Battle of Burki and Battle of d Are in the.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
In the objective and the aim was to.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Go Pakistan then again asked for ceasefire that time. And
let me tell you well, air Force, I have to
be very fair to our sisters thing because I today
i'm bearing the colors of the three services when I
address on this podcast. They did a marvelous job. They
(26:38):
brought glory to us. We had the Gnats which were
old generation fighter aircrafts, Yes, and they've matched the American
F eighty six Sabagettes and down them. What else you
want for the skill of our air force? The the
daring of our air force, the dog fights Pakistan was annahlighted, yes,
(27:02):
nineteen seventy one war is a different story. Or air
force got is the air supremacy which today cannot be
achieved in any war. Russia has not been able to
even use it against Ukraine Israel for whatever they are
small country, I will say air will not really work
to that end. Nineteen seventy one was air supremacy totally
(27:24):
and Indian Army, Indian Armed Forces what they did thirteen
day war? Are you going to occupy a country?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
So the directive was like that.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
The directive led them to.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It was a lightning strike.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
Thirteen days across rivers.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
You occupied Dhaka.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
You make a left in general, the army commander the surrender,
and that left in general nazis seen whipping, actually whipping.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
What else can you do?
Speaker 2 (27:54):
It was a Brits creak of its own kind and
we should be very proud. And so it was a
try service there. The Navy did a tremendous job off
the east coast as well on the western coast, and
Karachi was put in flames.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
They had cut off.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, so does the try service thing. So this yours
is your Indian Armed Forces. And then we came to
ninety nine Cargil. Yes, again it was treachery on part
of Pakistan. But I want to tell our Indian quolity.
I addressed to the Indian military. Okay, we should not
say if they are deceivers and that treachery. As a
(28:31):
military man, I know treachery is practiced. So I should
be on guard, I should be alert, I should be
two and a half steps ahead like.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Horses on the chessboots. So that is it.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
But then when we went in Cargil, I being a
gunner from artillery, I can say my artillery the buffers delivered.
That delivered the ultimate destruction of Pakistan. And they had
to withdraw.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
And so the directives and all these wars were to
go invade or to capture. But in this particular strike
back the directive.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Was in each case.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Now I gave you the directive political directive of Lal
Bad Shahsi did nineteen seventy one war Indra A Gandhi
also masters stroke of diplomacy first League Indo Soviet Peace
and Treaty Friendship which was signed.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yes, it was a back you had.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You had the elephant was riding high with a great
power on your back and it paid its role Soviet Union.
That's why Indos Russian friendship will remain alive in indoors
Soviet Russian friendship. I will say cooperation, strategic partnership will
(29:51):
remained supreme in the Indian polity. Oh, that was a
political directive. Liberate, Liberate is Pakistan.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yes, liberated East Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
And so it was a war of liberation and we
did it and I said we had captured them. The
ninety three thousand.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
We were not looking for such directive. What was the
directive focused on? Was it to counter terrorism?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
No, that was it was liberate East Pakistan, borrowed liberation
for Bangladesh. Mudjiubar Rahman had won a landslide victory by
constitution rights of Pakistan. He should have been the prime
Minister of both Western East Pakistan and it was denied
to him. The people in Bangladesh East Pakistan, Bengalis were subjugated, massacred,
(30:37):
raped and what not. Atrocities committed on them and still
today very sad part of history after fifty oddiars. Today
they're standing up and trying to mend ways with the
perpetrates of the atrocities cruelties on them. The Pakistan state,
(30:57):
Bangladesh people will realize this been taken up a gum
tree by the wrong people, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
But coming back to the directives, now you're seeing political
directors design the operation strategy. Yeah, early so this time
in operations and also it is the political.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, I'll come to that. So in ninety nine. What happened.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
The Prime Minister that time gave a political directive fight
the war throughout the what we have called occupants were
there on the cargo heights. But political directive was do
not cross the line of control.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Okay, it was a very very tight directive. Neither the
air will go across, nor the military.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And create Indian armed forces be implemented the Prime minister
decorative in letter, spirit and word.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Now this time the political directive was counter terrorism. Prior
mister wanted to attend.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
To the terrorists.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
So the thing was non escalatory restraint, but target the
terrorists centers, terrorist camps which are the main feeders of
terrorists being sent across. And how was that political directive implemented?
(32:34):
As I said, it was brilliance. It was brilliance. It
was well oiled machinery planning. The first bee was supreme.
The Try Services, you see with the Chief of Defense Staff,
India has not been aspiring to become to create theater
commands the Tri Services Corporation. And for the last few
years now five years or so, you're working in that direction.
(32:57):
There have been wargames, they've been discussions, but Pakistan has
helped us in Knobsendur. I don't see in a very
short time we're going to have theater commands. Because it
has been now well oiled. We know what is required.
The Trice services were right up there. And that image
which you all have seen of the war room where
(33:19):
the four chiefs are sitting and taking control, monitoring and
directing the war, I think they did not need to
direct the war because the generals below, the formation commanders,
the theater commanders, the core and the division, they played
their role as it was identified to them. And mind you,
it remained a non contact warfare.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
What a great.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Performance from pok right down to Babelpur. Twenty one targets
nine addressed twelve are awaiting them. I like to say,
twelove awaiting them. They'll be given as a gift in
terms of firepoweratic delivery. If Pakistan crosses any line, then
(34:06):
some pashadha is awaiting them. Now, So that was the
first part.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Look at it.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
To address that precision your next point decision, targeting precision
guided munitionis used. It was hammer and scalp, not hammer
and tongs. It was hammer and scalp. The missiles and
the bombs that we had. You know, and of course
came into play on ninth, tenth and tenth May, the BrahMos,
(34:35):
the BrahMos, Brahmaputra and Moscow River. The word is derived
from that. And again the indoor Russian cooperation is supreme
out there. So we lived by that political directive and
operational execution.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
The strategy it is quite sanctin it is very important.
Like you told me a story that how I think
the rio then and you would telling me that particular
anecdote on how important is your directive words which can
define what strategy it can go to? Like it is
such a nice story, I.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Think you recall to me that I can narrate it.
You see, the operational directive from the highest authority is
normally three words. The Soviet Union Stalin gave the director
to Marshall Zukov to captures Berlin.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Three words.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Now recalls to me that Mahabart story. And here it's
in the book The Difficulty of being Good by one
mister guarandas so the Rodana is the first chapter and
it is narrated likewise, Kevin. They are returning after visiting
the Indra Preshta yes Uh and his Mamu, his maternal
(35:58):
uncle Shakuni. And what happens there? He asked him, And
they're returning in the chariot okay Banja. I find that
your eyes are red and yours. Your belly is boiling.
What is the problem, he said? I cannot bear the
prosperity of the fund of us. I simply cannot bear it.
So he asked him, what do you want? He said,
(36:19):
I want destruction of fund of ours three words and
he implemented it. He asked him, how will you do it?
He said, very simple, the game of dice will work.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
So basically you was saying, how he said, led to it.
If you would have said I just want to invade in,
the situation would have changed. But knowing that this kind
of operation also has a humanitarian undertone, how important and
difficult gets for the military and the army to focus
on their precision strategy keeping the civilians in check that
(36:53):
they are protected as much. What is that part of
the decision making and the strategy falls in place, as
you can help us understand. Once the directive comes, it
comes or it is in the hands of the operational strategies.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I would like to also cover the political directive here
because the thing is in print right now. But my
own interpretation is destroyed terror centers three words. And that's
how the military missionary got into action. We did not
you have addressed the word human train here. We did
(37:28):
not as a nation, wanted to cause any civilian casualties,
any collateral damage. We didn't want to address the military
targets or the military wayby. We conveyed a great message,
a great message that it is non escalatory, it is restrained.
(37:54):
Listen and understand to our signal was the message to
Pakistan restraint and non escalatory. And this message also went
up to the global community. Okay, what India wants, we
want destruction of the terrorist centers. Because the world has
(38:15):
forgotten today, memories are very short. United States did not
play up to the Indian concerns before nine to eleven. Yes, okay,
what is terrorism? When it happened, then America went in,
came into Middle East, Afghanistan, and it became.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
A global war on terrorism.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Now, since those actions have not taken place, a few
take place in Europe and epicenter and the root of it,
whether it was the United States which was targeted in
nine to eleven or Europe and this thing, whether it's
the London Tube or in Spain or anywhere else in Germany,
the roots have been in the epicenter of terrorism.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Pakistan.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Yes, the world has got short memories. They want to forget.
India is saying we are fighting you war and they
have shown little silence. When Operations Indure was launched. There
will be a wake up call for them.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
But how does it get difficult when you're making such
strategies to take care that civilians are in the safeguard
Like you said, it has to been on escalator. Also,
how much of that civilian aspect has to be into
the minds of the military and the army when they
strategize and how do they work around it? You have
a pressure, it's a heavy pressure situation. How does it operate?
Speaker 2 (39:38):
So your theme precision along with purpose. Yes, precision, whether planning,
whether identifying the weapon systems.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Which we are going to use.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
They gave you, okay, we will only address the terrorists.
They're not civilians for us. They are our enemies. They're
the ones who are beating us. And it was identified
so it did not matter whether they were in Subana
La Masque there because by name infrastructure it is suban
(40:13):
a la mosque. In practice it was the terrorists hideout
then like that, so we addressed them. So there were
no civilian casualties as such.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
In the counter attack, we had to protect our civilians
as well. So there was a yes.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
You see now when you say that we have not
addressed anything on night sixth seventh May, yes, and seventh
eighth May, Pakistan did not receive the signaling correctly, and
they came to us with their messiahs and drones and
all they try to, you know, retaliate. They wanted to
(40:50):
show to the domestic audience that we can retaliate. So
when they came, our systems played up our air force,
our a defense system. And let me tell you here,
our air defense has turned out to be the shield
of the nation. It is the true shield.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Of the nation. What marvelous job they have done.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Integrated air command and control system, combination of a force
and the army along with navy were required. Four laid
defense system combined with an excellent command, a command controlled
and reporting system with a cash thise, certain weapon systems.
(41:33):
I'll come along this thing. But each one of them played,
you know, the air force system, the patora missiles, the
our cap you know, combat air patrols in the air
are a wax. They were all there to protect, protect,
and then the Air Force missile system, then our air
defense missile systems you know, and a cash both with
(41:56):
the Air Force and the Army did a tremendous job.
And why specially mentioned a Kash It is indigenous. It
is indigenous. Yes, and the director, doctor Plada Ramao. I
happened to meet him now just about I think fifteen
(42:18):
days back. I was sitting with him and I had
a talk with him. Firstly, I felt it's a great
honor to meet a man. He was the director of
Akash and he told me before he went and talked
on the stage, he said, you know, I told a
colleague who joined Okay, look our boss is doctor Abdul
(42:40):
Kamara Kalam. And he said he heard it. So he
called him. He said, listen, I'm not your boss. Do
you know who's your boss?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
So he was quiet.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Kalam told him Akash is your boss. And he said
I lived my life thereafter. Akash is my boss. That
great man who also became President of India. Yes, he
done bundles and here it is man acknowledging him.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So cash is a great system.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Is a world beater. It will be a part of
the nations asking for it. And then we head back
to Russia the S four hundred.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yes, besides, everybody is inquisitive about this great Yes it is.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
It's a great system. And our own look at the
Indian mind. I would like to say, Juguard, you know
Juguard Pield Marshall Slim in his book Defeating to Victory
he was the commander of the fourteenth Army in Burma
campaign British Indian Army. He wrote in his book that
(43:53):
Indians are masters. The Indian master of innovation, innovation, Hindi
is Jugar and Jaguar. The many books England today practices
Jugard as a as a syllabi in some of the places. Okay,
what is this Indian mind? So it worked l seventy
(44:16):
guns which are more than fifty years old.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Are generals.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
I give credit to the air defense. I give credit
to the research and development. They upgraded it. They upgraded it.
And in the instant case Amrisavi evol seen how Pakistan
is believed to have tried to target the Golden Temple. Also,
and I can believe that because in punch they destroyed
(44:48):
part of Nagali Sauwara, which is the seat of the Jain.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Case seeks yes, and they address some mustard said it's
some temple. So if they're.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Trying to do that, then all the system came into practice.
They're upholding the sanctity of the sanctum center of the
Golden Temple and to.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
The world it's a revered rever supertan.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
With this kind of a display of our system, defense
system and the great missiles you have mentioned, supersonic missiles
we own, can we say we're going to turn around
our boat from being an importer in the defense market
to an exporter. Do you see that we can work
that vision or at least look at that part now.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Okay, but before that, you know I had not completed.
I'll just want to tell you that air defense I
covered only the air defense across from buche Cutch right
up to the Kashmir area was covered by our air defense.
Not a single damage caused. They drones, their missiles were
(45:57):
all intercepted and destroyed. A defense lent the turning point
to the war, asked me how there was a further
two missile which was fired which was intercepted on ninth
(46:18):
May or no, on the tenth of May in the
morning at SISA targeting Delhi. That drew the red line
and the turning point for that was served by our
a defense and the turning point the window of opportunity,
(46:43):
the strategic flexibility, the strategic resilience, the leadership which came
to the for the military leadership. They then on tenth
May decimated Pakistan military basis a basis the Nur Khan
which is as close to Rawal Pindi. And then it
(47:04):
turns out that Karana Hills, yes, which Americans got worried.
They must answer us why they got so much worried.
The nation wants to know from America why they got
so much worried about Karana Hills. So what India did
that daytime strikes the promos, What a massive.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Display of leadership, military leadership.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
And when you know you're saying this military leadership, yes,
I will say it's a fine tuning with the political leadership.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
I want to know this in these kind of operations,
the strait of military leadership, what is that as indispensable
or non negotiable from your point of view, which you
said was the turning point, right window for opportunity, the
sinking tuning between the political directive and they taking the
call I in this moment that they recognize now we're
(47:57):
gonna remove their pieces. How does this work? Does that
treat which is non negotiable?
Speaker 2 (48:01):
And what is non negotiable in leadership, whether it is
political or military, is resoluteness, firmness, sticking to your aim
and if that aim requires some flexibility, yes, with an
instant seconds in this in the centric warfare, you know
(48:29):
what we call the network centric warfare. It has to
be instantaneous. It is not to be isolationists. It has
not to be linear cam checking out what is to
be done.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
And that's how it happened. And that is why leadership
has to be absolutely these.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Are non negotiable terms. It's my military operation. It is
non negotiable. I Am not going to turn left or
right until unless the situation so demands. And that is
what delivered the goods. And the Prime mister having said
that he's given a freehand to the services, I'd say,
still an interplay. Then you are a free hand. Doesn't
(49:05):
mean that I can go helter skelter It is an
interactive thing where I say I'm doing this and the
signal is go ahead, you do it. You're delivering them.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
There is no war in between. They have to be
in on the same page as quickly as they can.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Absolutely, and you have to repeat that other previous question
because I wanted to cover the I will.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Come to that because you've led me to what we
want to go and sync with is about after this
sink in leadership treat because that is important for us
to know what trait is important we want to know
about the narrative control and the information warfare. How important
it is study to understand this narrative control information warfare?
How do we play around it?
Speaker 1 (49:47):
Okay, it's a very good question.
Speaker 3 (49:49):
Again, And because see we are in the as you
spoke about technology evolution in our artillery system evolution and
our missize and how it helped us to grow in
our approach to war, it is important to know how
digitalization and computerization all this world is also playing a
role in the warfare that we're talking about, information warfare.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
And Quie must compliment you and you take a rabbit
out from your sleeve and come out with some very
good fresh.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
Questions because your content is so intriguing and your talks
are so intriguing that I have to make sure that
I don't leave you with that thought.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Okay, now you see today narrative has found a very place,
I would say top place in war. It matters wars.
The victory and defeat is also not on ground and space.
(50:49):
It is also now being measured in this current context
of new era warfare in terms of the narrative control. Yes,
I would like to comparetive control. How good a job
our lawyers do when truth and lies are submerged into
one like sangam and you do not know what is
(51:12):
truth or lies? Narrative control is something like that. I'm
putting it in the simplest terms, This warfare has reached
a error that it is not measured in occupying territory.
It is not measured in taking surrenders. It is not
measured how many kills I've had. It really does not matter.
(51:36):
It's not the kill. It is what my long term
aim is in military. Also, if it was terrorists, how
long this killing of terrorists will keep the heads down
in terrorists? Why related to terrorists? Because that was our mission?
Primist algiers said, we've rooted out, but there are two
(51:58):
steps ahead in rooting it out. We destroyed the terrorist camps.
They're still existing by that existing because the mother rassas
have created two three generations to come. Yes, terrorists. It
is the Frankenstein which the state, the deef state Pakistan
(52:18):
is SI and the army have created to root them out.
Is a is a business of pakistanis because they're beating
snakes in their backyard.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Now, with having said this, there is an ideologue behind it.
The leaders in this case the Pakistan military, the ISI,
led by their Field Marshal today, supported by the puppets,
the Prime Minister and others. But then there is the
(52:50):
ideology in terrorism. Yes, so defeating that, routing that out
is the work in hand which Indian.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
State has to live with it. Yes, you know, sometimes
you have to live.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Yeah, you cannot select your parents, you know, So India
has to live with its neighbors. So with this backdrop,
I would say the narrative control Pakistan. Those terrorist camps
are destroyed on first night, but they come out the
next day and they give a narrative. Get they're down
(53:24):
five of aircraft's. They have done this this much of
damages I've been done in India, and that is where
in our aura of having destroy the terrorist camps, I
think our narrative control missed a bus at that time.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
We should have retaliated. You know.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
We came up later showing satellite images and that there
was some French this thing who tried to depict the thing.
But there are two couple of great writeops which have
come from the King's College. There's one professor Walter Ldwig.
He's covered it very well and he said if there
are losses or damages, so be it.
Speaker 1 (54:08):
India has achieved its same. Wow, King this College, British,
that's a.
Speaker 3 (54:13):
Great way to give back to their narrative control in
giving the right that we aimed be achieved.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
So you can build up around the Tom Cooper which
is there who's said that it is not so. Yes,
so see and then they were the narrative. The Chinese
aircraft has beaten the French revel the j T and
C versus Rafel.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
It is not so, it is not so. You know,
it is very important to control the narratives and information warfare.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
So the narrative control becomes that much more important. And well,
I think the lesson in this is in the narrative
control or narrative warfare. That strategic communication I call it
rategy communication is paramount in today's world to show what
(55:06):
you have done. It is not I go and put
a flag on such a glacier today I've occupied it,
or the Cargill Heights, or I go on Mount Everest
and plant the Indian flag there. That is symbolic. Along
this symbolism has to be the digital representation or showing
(55:29):
what is actual. And that is where strategic communication assumes
great importance. And with my due difference, I want to
say to the people who matter, they have to attend
to it. The perception is formed very early through communication.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
And media discourse.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
And media discourse, you know all that. So this perception
which is formed early has to be now controlled and
for that we have taken steps. We have sent up
Parliament to delegation. Yes, and how they can tell the world. Okay,
what it was why this Operation Sindur was launched. It
(56:15):
was launched with no collateral damage. Yes, we respected humanitarian
It was the human titarian effort which is so dear
to us, you know, it is so dear to us.
And so what is the lesson in the narrative control.
I will also tell what other lessons in the ops
indur per se is. This is part of Absendur that
(56:37):
at the national level we should legislate a body.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Which controls strategic communication.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Yes, and that body should have members from across the field,
the foreign service, the bureaucracy, the military, the scientific thing,
behavioral sciences, psychologists, the legal luminaries, you know, influences which
(57:09):
are there today on your Twitter. So we need all
these people so that we should be on ball on
this right from the time when we started preparation for Obsendur.
And Pakistan is a master of lies and propaganda. You know,
there was doctor Goebbels in the Hitler's Germany, the furor
(57:32):
the Nazi Germany, and doctor Goebels was supposed to be
the propaganda master who was unsurpassed in his time. We
have to be the grand daddy of doctor Goebels in
the times to come, so that we beat Pakistan in
the game and we beat China. They are another master
of disinformation. Yes, So that is the importance of narrative
(57:55):
warfare and we must, we must do it. And I'm
sure the delegations you're gone will return with an achievement
where India will be back in the narrative. Also because
we are speaking the truth. Yes, but truth today is
the first casualty. It is said in war and in
peace also, Yes, So we have to defeat the lie
(58:20):
with our truths.
Speaker 1 (58:21):
That's the message I'm giving here.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
And if you want to ask me about operations Hindura,
I think there's a lot of lessons come out and
that I.
Speaker 3 (58:30):
Think operations in the message you've given me in every step,
because every step you have defined, you've given me a
message what we should take back from it. But I
want to know as a country we have a leader. Now,
how important you are from military army background. You are
a major general, you know it. How important it is
for the India inc. The next generation to have a
(58:51):
leader with that and a military discipline together to make
this country go robust. What is your take on the
new India with what kind of discipline character we should
be walking ahead? Because it is not just about one operation.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
So when you're saying youth, it is the youth.
Speaker 3 (59:09):
It is the startup world we have. It is everything
because economy is playing as important a role for us
as much as to be robust on our borders and
defend the boundaries. So what kind of leadership, military discipline,
leadership quality or how important it is to have that
(59:29):
today to win over the world as a whole.
Speaker 2 (59:34):
And answered this question the one question missed up.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
It was very dear to me and different.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
That is armament you said, armament export and important.
Speaker 3 (59:42):
Yes, we will come back. I have not forgotten that.
I know there you will be giving me a real importance.
But this is important for me to know. Yes, where
the leadership, because you've kept on saying during our whole
operation execution that there was a great thing between the
political world and the executioner, the army chief in the
(01:00:04):
operation team. That sink in is very important. So when
we're running a country, that leadership sinking of the quality
of a military man is also important.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You see that we are having a leader who is
taken forward the mission or making India great. Yes, and
that mission is very much there. We are seeing how
it is paying up in our infrastructure, in our taking
(01:00:35):
the development forward, in our military defense acquisitions also which
I imply also the other nearby defense. The India has
been counted as a fulcrum. I say because of its
strategic autonomy in the JEO strategic geopolitical field was one
(01:00:58):
example of it. We took the nations long and we
took Russias on board to their satisfaction, so that the
nations of the G twenty fell in line. Not that
is leadership, the firm, leadership and the other things. And
they are always busses and minuses in the nation's life
which take place. Not to the India ink the youth.
(01:01:21):
You are also a youth.
Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
The messages.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
Be shoulder to shoulder, do what you can do for India,
and don't ask what India is doing for you. It
is the words I'm repeating of what John F. Kennedy
had said, don't ask, don't ask what American can do
for you. Tell what you can do for America. But
I am repeating those words, do for India. So I
(01:01:52):
think that you have got a lot of space our startups. Yes,
is a major space. And I tell you the youth
is doing a tremendous job.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
I gave a couple of.
Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
Talks and leadership and some places and there the organizers
had honored the startup people. In one place they were
eight of them, and an they were about ten to twelve. Yes,
and I was startled and felt proud because such good
work is being done by startups, pioneering work. Yes, and
(01:02:27):
I'll give you example of our drones itself.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Today. There are about five.
Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Hundred and fifty firms perhaps making drones across the field.
Whether it is agriculture, industry, medical and all that, I
don't know. And out of that it'll be safe for
me to say about thirty percent of them are in
the defense.
Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yes, So we're making thrones.
Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Of all kinds, camiicas, killer drones, the likes of them,
the reconnaissance, surveillance.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
So if they.
Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Are there, that's a message con get up and start
doing the young youth. You know, there's a story if
that a horse can pull one point five times its weight.
So if it is a horse, is fifteen hundred cages,
so it can take up to two point five tons,
(01:03:26):
and if there are two, it does not double up.
It multiplies multiplier, and if they are for it multiplies.
And those are the draft horses. Incidentally, Yes, so be
those draft horses be shoulder to shoulder, make the chain
(01:03:47):
and pull along together. Let's take India forward. Let's not
only talk. Let's take India forward. I tell people when
I'm here in the rw is then all also that
on independence they're public, they're doing the flag till I said, listen,
please come out, don't be in your beds.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Be proud of India.
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
We should not remember it only when we see a
big operation happen. I think it should become the fashion
that we were with pride and.
Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Not just in This is my message to the youth.
Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
But I will not let it go with that one
story that we have one important understanding. We want to
know about the defense we turning from importer to exporter.
Will this steer around? And how what is your look
into it? And how long can we take on that?
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
The Atham Nirba defense which has come up has also
come up in other fields. Yes, but Athamnurbur defense is
very important. I want to tell the nation. I want
to tell the viewers that no nation has become a
great power which is not a major armament exporter. The
(01:05:07):
big tickets in armaments and defense is our aim and
should be. Yes, we want to be a big power.
We got the economy backing it. Yes, So when the
economy is backing it, I want to appeal to the
decision makers to the government machinery raise our defense budget
(01:05:30):
two percent is ancient.
Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Make it three point five percent.
Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Your R and D should get forty percent of that
the increase because that is where you're going to design,
develop and produce. I'll give an example. Look, we are
wanting to make aircrafts, the stealth aircrafts, but we are
not making air engines. Design, develop, do that. Aq Khan
(01:05:57):
was supposed to be in Pakistan bag borrow steel is
said he stold the nuclear secrets, but it was also
that it was latently done along with support of China
and America. So we must come up with air engines,
is my main thing to say. Because once we have
got that, then we are not going to look for
(01:06:17):
fifth We're not going to look for F thirty five
or you know Jay twenty of China and even SU
fifty seven. Yes, we need that, but at the moment
we need support. No should armament exporter and where is
India and that we are right on ball.
Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
We are right on ball.
Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
And how look I think about two years back we
had armament exports worth seventeen thousand corons. Yes, last year
or the current year at twenty three thousand coroors. Yes,
so we are going it is and it will double up.
You'll see next year it will not be. It will
be at least one point five times. And maybe they're
(01:06:57):
they're small assemblies in that enough when I say small
assemblies and all, even we're exporting to America, they should
remember that.
Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
Supersonic missiles I looked out for as you said, so.
Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Yeah, you see.
Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Now look what are bramos is world beater two point
eight up to three max. Four fifty kilometers you know,
can't be detected accuracy one meter of its circular are probability.
You're Akash, you're Teja's, you're all coming up. And I'm
(01:07:30):
sure you see your ins karanth, your nuclear submarines. It
is not only the military or artillery right on all
you know one fifty five fifty two caliber Baba Klani
bath Forge World Beta will be exporting artillery guns to
the world. The orders will come as it will be
(01:07:51):
there for Brumos. There are seventeen countries lined up they
want to buy off us. You're already exporting of some
of these equipment to our Mania and Philippines have got
the promos. Tejas has been asked for my nations. I'm
sure it will come up. US should cooperate. We have
got into a strategic partnership with them. They're delayed supplying
US A four zero four engines. They should should be
(01:08:12):
a wake up call if you have got a comprehensive
strategic partnership. One one presidential quote or talk will not
change the American strategic partnership, which is en route to greatness.
That's the message I am giving to America. Also in
my small capacity.
Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Thank you so much, Major General. There's so much more
to talk. If I could spend more time with you,
I would now want to move on to you know,
knowing the operations indur in the country and our army strategy,
to knowing you much more, much better into your journey.
But we want to leave that for the next conversation
we have because I'm sure if we're going to have
a trial of podcasts coming up soon with you to
(01:08:57):
understand how it really makes you the person you are.
You gave us what you are, but we want to
go on the journey of knowing how you became who
you are, so it really gets us into the understanding
of the deep route. So thank you so much to
not just let us into operations in Duba, let us
into the mind of a military man, army man, a
man who's decorated with so much of rewards and awards
(01:09:19):
and accolades, and you decorate us.
Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
I only want to say one thing. I'm the small
person that I am, and I'm a very proud Indian
and with you all are also and be a proud Indian.
Let's make our country great, make India great, is my
last message.
Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
And Jahan, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
And we hold our army with pride every day from
now on. It should not be only limited to the
achievements that we see on the front, on the borders,
in the front.
Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Thank you so much, thank you, thank you very much. Unku.
Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
It's been an honor to be with you. It's been
very stimulating. It's been very stimulating.
Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
I did not know the.
Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Volley of questions which are going to come in between,
and some of them I think I was just yeah,
unanswered in full capacity.
Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
Yes, But we get more, we get more time. I'm
sure we're looking forward to more sessions with you and
we're going to go back to each one of them
and death.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Thank you, thank you so much.
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