BONUS EPISODE: The Ultimate Guide to Getting Money for Your Movie with Franco Sama

Franco Sama, a veteran executive producer, reveals the hard truths and practical steps behind raising real money for independent films. He explains that while many filmmakers obsess over finding investors, the real challenge is making their projects financially viable. To attract funding, he emphasizes the importance of having a solid business plan—complete with budgets, schedules, and realistic revenue projections. Franco also insists that filmmakers contribute at least 30% of their own budget to show commitment and reduce investor risk.

Throughout the conversation, Franco dismantles the myth of overnight success and reminds filmmakers that patience and professionalism are the real keys to longevity. From structuring LLCs and DBAs to working with distributors and understanding digital markets, he breaks down every aspect of the modern financing process. His insights transform the often confusing world of film investment into a clear, actionable roadmap for filmmakers ready to take their projects seriously.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number two
O two. Only I can change my life, No one
can do it for me. Carol Burnett.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to Indie Film Hustler, to another episode of the
Indie Film Muscle podcast. I am here humble host Alex Ferrari.
Today's show is sponsored by Video Blocks. Now, guys, when
I was shooting my show for Legendary Pictures, and I
did that ninety six pages and four days, I actually
got into post and we used a lot of stock footage,

(00:43):
stock sounds, and even some graphics from video Blocks. They
own an amazing resource. With your membership, you are granted
the rights to use that footage forever, imperpetuity on any
projects you want to. So if you want to try
a seven day free and by the way, anything you
download during those seven days is yours to keep, and

(01:04):
if you decide to stay, you get eighty four percent
off the yearly membership. It is well worth it, guys,
trust me, if you do a lot of production, it
is something you really need. So just head over to
video blocks dot com, Forward slash Hustle, and today's show
is also sponsored by Masterclass and specifically the new Directing

(01:25):
Masterclass by OSCAR winning director Ron Howard. Ron Howard has
grossed over one point nine billion dollars at the box
office and has made OSCAR winning movies like The Da
Vinci Code, Cinderellaman, Apollo Thirteen, and The Beautiful Mind, just
to name a few. And his master Class, which I've

(01:46):
been able to watch already and take was amazing. It
was just so insightful and it's a must for any
film director or any filmmaker who wants to direct. The
knowledge bombs that he drops are amazing. So just head
over to any film muscle dot com forward slash Ron Howard. So, guys,
I want to ask you a question. Who here listening
today is looking for money for their next film, their

(02:09):
next short, their next TV series or whatever. Who here
wants money for their film projects? Please? I'll wait. Yeah,
I thought so everybody, And it is something that all
of us struggle with and really there's a mystery, almost
almost a mythological mystery on how to you know, approach

(02:30):
people to get money, how to package projects, how to
put things together to get to get financing, to get money,
and what is viably what is financially viable as a project.
Sometimes filmmakers don't understand that their their passion project is
just maybe not investible in you know, it's just something
that's not going to return money at a higher budget range.

(02:53):
And would you rather get that information at the beginning
of your quest to get the money for this project
or at the end of it. And I really wanted
to kind of pull back the curtain on this mystery
and talk to someone who really knows about how to
get money for your films. And today's guest is that person.

(03:14):
Today's guest is Franco Sama. He is an executive producer.
He is the man who you pitch to if you
want to get money. Now. He finds money, He has
relationships with investors, and he's the guy who connects everything.
He's the guy who packages projects together with the filmmaker

(03:34):
to try to get money for their projects. And he
has worked on many feature films as an executive producer
and Franco's one of those guys who you know, literally
came up from the streets, if you will. He hustled
his way into the business, and he's an amazing guy.
And I really learned, personally learned so much from talking

(03:56):
to Franco. And this episode is just a wealth of
information on how to get money for your film. It
is how to do it right, how not to do
it right, how to package a project, what needs to
be in place to go after money. We discuss the
one thing that all filmmakers need in order to receive

(04:18):
money for their movie, and we talk about it in
this episode. So I'm not gonna talk anymore. I really
think you guys are gonna get just a lot of
information out of this. So get a notepad ready, get
your iPad ready, take some notes because you're gonna probably
listen to this episode multiple times. And please, please, for
God's sake, share this episode with anybody and everybody you

(04:41):
know in the film industry who is actively looking for
money or going to be looking for money for a
feature film, a series, any kind of content that they're
going to be creating and looking for money for. Please
share this episode. Tell people about it because I want
this information out there, and Franco was so generous with
his time and knowledge and experience. So, without any further ado,

(05:05):
here is my conversation with Franco Sama. I'd like to
welcome the show. Franco Sama from Samaco Films. Thank you
so much for being on the show. Franco.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Oh, thank you, Alex. It's a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
So how did you break into this crazy business?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Well, it's interesting because I started off. I moved here
from Boston in nineteen ninety seven and I was a
little over the hill at the time to be to
be starting off, you know, I was forty years old
competing with you know, people half my age, you know,
and the difference was I didn't have any experience and
they did. So so anyway, I started off as a publicist.

(05:45):
My strategy was if I could get in front of
the right people on the red carpets and kind of meet,
you know, mingle, that my help and it actually worked.
My first three gigs out of the gate were in order,
Francis Ford Coppola, Will Smith and and then Gary Olben.
So I really had.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
So you just worked as a publicist and then you
just met them on the red carpet and connected.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
I worked as a publish for a for a celebrity photographer,
and so my job was to as a publicist, was
to kind of book the gigs and get the magazine
you know, various magazines to to hire him to do
you know, specific pieces on on on celebrities, and those
were the first three that we started off with. So

(06:30):
really my plans sort of worked, you know, because they
put me out in front very very quickly. I had
only been here for two months and I'm rubbing elbows
with some of the you know, a list stars in
Hollywood that said, you know, after a couple of years
of that, which was fun, it was great, and it
was great experience, but I wasn't really getting you know,
what I came here for, which was to promote my

(06:51):
own career. So I started my first production company in
two thousand and five with a business partner, and you know,
we didn't know what we were doing. We just kind
of broke out and started figuring, uh, figuring out, well,
maybe the best way to do this is to We
didn't have any of the criteria that some potential investors

(07:11):
were requiring for our films, and we had the investors
but we just didn't have the stuff that they needed.
So what we got on IMDb and we started searching
out for producers that had the stuff that we didn't have,
and we basically acted as matchmakers and put the investors
together with the producers and watched them all do their

(07:33):
their magic together. And the only thing we asked for
in return was some money and some credits and the experience.
And after five or six of those, we were like, Okay,
we get this. We can do this ourselves. And before
you know, before I knew it, I was I was
doing it on my own.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Very cool. So you're so you acted more as an
executive producer.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yes, I do. I do. Even now. It's kind of
in my blood, you know. I've always been a business
oriented person in my whole life. I love business and
I love the business of the movie business. So I
do spend most of it. I do produce films. I
love that, enjoy it. I don't spend a lot of
time on set. Most of my time is spent putting, financing, distribution, talent,

(08:18):
you know, packaging, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
So it is it is an art form what you do.
You are one of those one of those you know
magicians behind the curtain that a lot of filmmakers and
a lot of people don't understand what they do when
they see that name fly up on a credit on
a screen. They really don't get what an executive producer
does because they're very integral. Without them, they really can't

(08:40):
make a movie.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Sometimes, well, yeah, I think, so I do. I have
this thing I say that, you know, executive producers is
code for money, right, yes, yes, yes. When people email
me and they call them and they go, Hi, I'm
looking for an executive producer, you can scratch that word
out and put in the word money, and then you
get the same thing. So so so. But yeah, there

(09:05):
is an art form to it, you know. I'm reminded
of a day, many many years ago. I walked into
some agent's office on a whim I was trying. I
was actually back in the days where I was talking
about with the photographer, and I heard him on the
phone packaging a new deal. It was one of the
most exciting things I'd ever heard, and it was just

(09:27):
I happened to be overhearing him because I was sitting
in his office while he was taking the call, and
I thought, I don't know what that guy's doing. But
whatever it is, I want it. I want to be
a part of that. I want to do that every
day in my life. It just I connected with it
on on so many different levels. So yeah, it really,
you know, became then a question of learning how to
do that, how do you put all those pieces together?

(09:49):
And a lot of it, unfortunately, is trial and error.
You know, yes, you don't. You don't know. There's no
there's no school. I mean, there's no school you can
go to learn this kind of stuff. I teach it.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Now we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
But prior to that, you know, I mean even in
film school, they don't teach you that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
No, they don't. And it's and it is not only
an art form, but I mean it's a lot of filmmakers,
especially like the people listening under this podcast, a lot
of times they don't understand that it is about it's
a business. And a friend of mine, Suzanne Lyons, always
says the word show and there's a word business, and
the word business has twice as many letters as the

(10:35):
word show.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Well I agree with her, and actually know Suzanne, I
see her out a lot on the circuit because we're
in the same circles a lot in panels and stuff.
And my catchphrase in that regard is, and I say
this at the beginning every time I speak it, is
when it comes to these movies, and I think this
is very important, particularly for first and second time filmmakers.

(10:57):
My catchphrase is getting the money isn't the hard part.
Getting the money back is the hard.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
That's actually a great say, right.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
And that really is true. I mean in the world
that I live in. You know, I got a million
people coming to me every day. I'm going to probably
have one hundred of them today at the summit, right,
the US China Summit Film Summit today at the Academy
of Arts and Sciences. And you know, people come up
to me all the time, Oh, you're an executive producer,
particularly when they see that on the business card and
they go, will you read my script? That's the first thing.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
H jeez, your poor man.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yeah, and and and and unfortunately, you know, and again,
not to be smogger any the answer is always emphatically, no,
I'm not going to read a script because that's not
what we're looking for in the world that I operate in.
We're not looking for scripts. We got a million scripts.
There's good scripts out there. What we're looking for is opportunities,
investment opportunities. Investors aren't looking to invest in one hundred

(11:54):
pieces of paper with words on them. They don't understand
that it does not compute. And what I try to
explain these filmmakers, which is why I do my best
to try to educate them, even if I have to
do it myself, is to say, listen, you have to
You can't expect them to understand your language. They're not
going to understand the language of the antagonists and the protagonist.
They're not going to understand the difference between your ending

(12:17):
and your alternate ending. They're not even going to read
your scripts. As an investor, what they're interested in is
how much money do you need? How much am I
going to get back? And when am I going to
get it? And those are the answers that I have
to address on a daily basis.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
And that is determined by many factors which we'll get
into as we continue our in because that is a
lot of different moving parts to get that money back.
And I say it all the time, it's like you know,
if you make a if you make a movie for
one hundred thousand dollars, to make one hundred thousand dollars
back is difficult, depending obviously on the cast and the genre.

(12:54):
But it's a difficult thing. That's why. What's the percentage
of films that that actually make money in the in
the independent world. It's a small percentage.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Well it is a small person. You know, there's there's
a lot of different varying degrees in any and again,
even to what you just said, my response is this,
you know, it's not about making one hundred thousand back,
it's about making two.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
Hundred thousand, right.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
So now, I mean, you know, getting the money back
is great. You know it's better than not write because
I in fact, you know, I've coined you know the
term ROI, right, term return on investment. Well, I've recoined
that phrase as ROI, return of investment, right because in
my world, as long as the investors don't lose them. Right. So,

(13:39):
somebody gives me a million bucks for a movie and
I only had king him back three hundred fifty thousand,
I'm in trouble sure, right, And if it happens to
be my first time then how am I going to go, ever,
get out of that hole to be out raising money
on my second movie when I'm still in the whole
three hundred three quarters of a million dollars on my
first one. So the trick gets to do it right

(14:00):
the first time, and a lot of the times, what
that means is slowing the process down, managing your expectations,
and you know, giving yourself an opportunity to build and
to grow your career like I did. You know, I
started off making these really low budget and this was
fifteen years ago, really low budget horror movies. But I
did like five or six of them in a row

(14:22):
before I ever even attempted to make any kind of
a genre film. By the time I made my genre film,
I had so much experience and I had done so
many things wrong. I had made so many mistakes that
this was my opportunity to career to right those wrongs,
and I was able to do that. We made a
great movie. David Arquette, Vivoca Fox came on board for

(14:42):
that particular film, and we did it, and we did
it right, and then then we were able to sort
of set the president for ourselves to say, okay, now,
we go from this, you know, seven hundred thousand dollars
movie to one point two, and then in the next
movie we'll go to one point eight. And that's how
we graduate up to the kinds of films I'm making
now a right, And that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
A lot of filmmakers don't want to hear it. They
don't want to hear that's going to take work and
time in years to do because it is Nope.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
They don't want to put the time in. They want
they literally, I'm telling you, this happens to me all
the time. They walk into my office, they hand me
a script and they're waiting for me to write a check.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
You gotta be kidding me, Are you serious?

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I like to say I was kidding, but I'm not
now I'm not saying that happens all the time. Happens
way more often than it needs to. And this is
the reason why I think people, this is why I
do shows like this, because you know, for me, it's
about really getting people to understand how this thing works
and the reality of it, not the fantasy of it.
The fantasy of it is. I'm gonna write a script,

(15:40):
I'm going to show up at some festival or some
kind of something, and I'm when I walk around AFM
and somebody's gonna discover me and they're going to think
I have the greatest script ever, and they're gonna and
they're gonna go give me the money. Right, They're not
gonna go make it. They're gonna give me the money
and trust me to go make it, even though I've
never done this before. So that's just not reality.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
So it do do you think that has a little
bit to do with the the early nineties kind of
lottery ticket mentality that Sundance created with the El Martiachi's,
the reservoir Dogs, the clerks, the slacker that, you know,
all these kind of movies just showed up. And you know,
at the time, the big man on campus, Harvey, it

(16:20):
was not so much anymore. You know, he just walked
in and would you know, give millions of dollars and
all of a sudden, these careers were launched, and everyone thought,
like that's the they We just wouldn't They only saw
the lottery ticket winners. They never saw the millions of
people who bought tickets and never won, do you.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
Great, Yeah, And that's a grant analogy because that's exactly,
and I'm not saying that there was anything wrong with that.
I think that those will I remember those days it
was that was fun and exciting and thrilling, and just
the just if you walked into that thing with the
realization that that there's a chance at that, I say,
you know, that's great, but don't don't have that be
your plan A.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Right, That's right, That's that's so many plays.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
And you can't do your plan at Your plan A
has to be a strategy and a structure and hard
work and dedication and commitment and sacrifice and loss. That's
your plan A. Your Plan B is somebody coming in
and ret us check. You know. So those those days
have have changed, but it goes to everything else too.
I mean, look, I you know everybody uses the same examples.

(17:21):
I'm so if I hear one more person come to
me and say, well, look at Sylvester Stallone, Oh you're kidding,
Look at Matt and Ben Are you kidding me? I'm
not kidding. Or look at look at uh paranormal activity.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Blair Witch, Yeah, sure you know that today, even.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Still today, when I get the pitch decks that they
said that Blair Witch is still on. This is like
thirty years ago and they're still using that as the
example of what this could be.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Is the lottery ticket mentality?

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Crazy talk.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's yeah, it's actually you know, we were pitching. We're
a friend of mine is putting together a pitch deck
right now for a project, and they were starting to
pull out some stuff. I'm like, guys, ten years, that's
the that's the don't go past ten years. Don't don't
go like, well, the matrix. I'm like, I don't want
to hear about the matrix.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
And don't compare of your seven hundred and fifty thousand
dollars budget film to one that was made for fifteen
point five million. Yeah, just you know, you can you
can do your comparables in terms of the genre or
the feel or the flavor of the movie, but you
can't compare the box office, right, you can't do it.

(18:36):
It doesn't make sense. Yeah, you know, the goal at
the beginning shouldn't be look, in my opinion, this is
just me and my experience and you know my take,
but the goal shouldn't be, you know, first time out,
big huge hit, five million dollar budget, first time director,
five thousand theaters, because you know, it just doesn't it

(18:58):
just doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying that that's
not a possibility, a remote possibility. But what I'm saying
is if you go into that first and second film
with the understanding that my only goal is to get
in there, make a great movie, something that people will
respond to, that the general public will respond to, that
investors and distributors will respond to, because that's the big

(19:20):
part of the business. Because if the distributors aren't buying,
you got nothing. So you can spend a million bucks
and still end up in the movie that nobody wants.
But at the end of the day, if you can
succeed on your first and or your second time by
getting a budget a low budget movie somewhere in that
like five hundred to maybe a million dollar range, and
you're or even a little bit lower to fifty three hundred,

(19:43):
and you're able to actually make a good movie that
gets distribution and returns money back to the investors and
make profit for the rest of the folks, like the
distributors and yourself as a filmmaker. If you can do that,
I don't care if your movie is two hundred and
fifty three h one thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Now you've got your first building block, you've earned your stripes,
and it's time to move on to the next level.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Do you did you ever see I'm assuming you saw
the movie Dumb and Dummer years ago. Remember that moment
where Jim Carrey was trying to pick up that girl
and she's like, look, there's no chance for you to
you'll ever And he's like, so you're saying.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
There's a chance.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
I think I think that's basically the mentality of filmmakers
that they go into like you have no chance of
winning Sun Dance and getting a you know that five
thousand you know, the theater run of your of your
twenty thousand dollars movie. You like, So you're saying, there's
a chick. Of course, there's a remote chance that win
the lottery tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
But any possible anything is possible, and you know, and
and and you know, and I and I look at
I look I look at like Elena dum for example,
is an example of that. Right. Sure, I'm not saying
that stuff doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
It does do Boss Brothers. Yeah, I got a bunch
of them.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Yeah. Look, and that doesn't mean that Lena Dunham didn't
pay her jus I don't know her story. But my
point is that, you know, sometimes you do hit it.
It just hits the right moment is the right time,
and that's great. But in the meantime, look, this is
what I say to my filmmakers. I go, I teach
these free classes, if you know that, but I teach
film finance class, and it's free because I want people

(21:29):
to be able to come and get this information. And
what I say to them is, look, there's usually eighty
one hundred people in the room, right, And I go, Look,
if you're here, there's only two categories for me. Either
you're here to make a movie to get a movie financed,
in which case I am not your guy, or you're
here to build a long term filmmaking career and play

(21:52):
the long game, in which case I'm the guy you
want to talk to. I'm all about playing the long game,
building relationships out, taking your time, having patients, having a strategy,
and making one move after the next after the next
to get to an ultimate goal. And instead of the
one the one off person who's coming up to me, going,
I want to make this movie. It's my passion. You know,

(22:14):
I understand passion projects, right, I have one. But at
the end of the day, this is what I say
to the first time erst. If somebody comes to me
with a three or five million dollar film that they
want to direct it, it's they a passion project and
they have to direct it. My response to that is,
that's great, except don't do that one first, right, do

(22:37):
that one fifth, or fourth or third, But go out
and make another movie, you know, on the lower end,
and cut your teeth and get your experience on set
and earn your keep and save that quote unquote pasion project.
If it's not, if you're that passionate about it, then
don't use it as your guinea pig. Save it for

(22:58):
a day when you have experience and you have some clout,
and you have investors behind you, and you have a
little bit of a track record distributors, that's when you
want to do that.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
That is some amazing advice. It's it's so true because
you see all these filmmakers and I've got I've worked
with them, and I've seen them, and they show up
and they like, look, this is my baby. I've been
working on this script for five years. I'm like, well,
that's mistake number one. You shouldn't be working on a
script for five years. You should have at least five
scripts at least during that. Do you agree? You know,
you can't. You can't put all your eggs in that

(23:31):
one basket. You kind of have to. It's you know,
as a creative process. You know, Da Vinci didn't just
make the Mona Lisa and.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
That was it.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, you know, he had a lot of other art
projects going on at the same time. Now, how does
a filmmaker go about finding financing for their indie film?
How do you how do they approach it? Like can
you explain maybe a pitch deck, or like, I let's
say I have a movie, I have three movies. Let's
say I'm a little bit ahead. I have three scripts,

(24:03):
but I have no talent attached, I have nothing. What's
the steps that I have to go to try to
get any of these projects off the ground?

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Okay, well, I guess the first place to start is
with your genre, right, because that happens to me a lot.
People will bring me three or four projects, say which
one do I do first. You know, one of the
questions I get a lot of people send to me
what kind of movies do you like to make? Well,
my stock response to that is I like to make
the kind of movies that sell. All right, So good

(24:31):
advice right now. That said, it's because there is a market.
You know, this is a business, and at the end
of the day, there are certain things that are going
to take a lot longer to get around to recouping
you know, investment than others. So there are certain genres

(24:51):
that sell right now, and thriller is among them, very
high up there. Any kind of a thriller, also action movies,
and believe it or not, family movies. Now I'm putting
park horror aside to the to the side, because to me,
that's like a separate entity all of its own, you know.

(25:12):
So I'm talking about just in terms of the genre base.
But at that point, the first thing you need to
do is be organized about your approach. I mean, I
can't tell you how many people come to me and say,
I'll say to them, well, what's your budget, and they
they literally throw a number out out of the air.
They're like, oh, I can make this for one point five.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Oh really, no budget, no schedule, no breakdown.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Nothing right, Right, So I'll trick them and I'll go, oh,
your budgets one point five and they go yeah. I go, okay,
can you mean favor and eat? Email that to me.
I want to take a look at your budget. And
they're like, well, I don't actually have a budget or
schedule or schedule. And I'm like, well, then, how do
you how do you know? How do you know? How? How?
And you're actively out there right now trying to raise

(26:00):
money for a movie when you don't even know how
much you needed, right.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
It's the only business in the world that does that.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
It really is. It absolutely blows my mind how this
can be the case because it and it happens more
often than you believe. Most people won't even admit that
they don't have a budget. And one of the biggest
problems with filmmakers, and I think this is an important
point because this affects all of us, by the way,
but what I'm about to say has a domino effect

(26:31):
and a dramatic impact on us as an industry, as
a community of filmmakers, is that if you've got people
going out there that are making the rounds trying to
raise money prematurely, which is the majority of these people
out there trying to raise money when they're not ready.

(26:53):
They do not have the right to be knocking on
investors' doors. I'm not talking about my investors or your investors.
I'm talking about their own investors. They should not be
doing it. It's different if they're going off for our
friends and family round and they want to raise twenty
thirty thousand dollars to make a short film. But if
they're out legitimately trying to make a feature film that's

(27:16):
going to potentially pick get picked up and get distribution
and maybe even someday go to theaters, they have a
responsibility to do it right. And running around with the
script and saying can I have a million dollars please?
Is insane. It makes no sense, and it reflects poorly
on everybody else that's out there busting their butts trying
to do it right. So you've got to have a

(27:39):
plant for me. It's development, development, development. You've got to
go through the development phases. And not only do you
have to have a budget in this schedule, because all
that's going to do is tell you how much it's
going to cost to make, but you better have some
kind of projections or evaluations in the in the world,
you know, and how do you get those?

Speaker 1 (27:58):
By the way, So some people understand.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
That's a tough one, I will admit because that's easier
said and done. When I was starting out, you could
just walk into any distributor at the AFM, or you
can in anybody's office and PLoP down a script and say, hey,
this is my cast list. Can you run some numbers
on me? If people would be more than happy to
do it. Uh, that's changed dramatically over the last five

(28:23):
or six years. And part of the reason it's changed
is because what was happening was the filmmakers were going
in and getting these numbers from these distributors, and then
once they raised the money somehow, they would they wouldn't
come back, right, They'd go somewhere else to do their deal.
And now these these distributors felt used in abuse because

(28:44):
they were being used for their for their projections and
then not being able to cash in on the business,
so they just basically stopped. So that does that's a
little tougher. I do have my own exclusive deal with
distributors to be able to provide those, although there's a

(29:05):
cost to it, but I'd rather pay for them and
have them be accurate. Because the other thing that you
want to be careful of is there's a lot of
companies and websites and all the internet now where you
can get quote unquote algorithms right right, which look, I
get it's the age of technology, and I'm an old

(29:25):
fashioned guy, but at the end of the day, an
algorithm isn't going to give you the real numbers. What
we do when we go out for our sales numbers,
I have a team of people who pick up the
phone and actually call buyers around the world and talk
about specifically your film at your genre level, with your
director choices, your actor choices, and we collect data and

(29:50):
we start off with a minimum guarantee from a big
domestic company whose name I can't mention, and then we
work off of that and actually pick up one. So
for us doing established establishing valuations for a film takes weeks.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show. Now, can you explain
a little bit about what you're so when you're getting
those evaluations that's based on genre, that has nothing to
do with the creative. This is strictly on genre, director,

(30:28):
and cast.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
There's yeah, there's four well, there's four categories. There's there's
budget or budget range called budget range, director, cast, and genre. Yeah,
those are the four things. And you're absolutely right. Actual,
that's like the point I'm trying to make here is
that none of this has anything to do with your story.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's as rough as that sounds.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
It's when you're at when you're at that level, which
is where I'm at, like daily in conversation, nobody at
that point when not maybe just discussing that this is
a mathematical equation that has to be solved. I have
a movie that's going to spend one point five and
I need to get back a minimum of three to

(31:10):
break even. And so what I'm looking for from my
sales estimates are three numbers, usually the low, a medium,
and a high, and that if of my personal rule
of thumb is that my low should be two times budget.
So if I'm going to spend a million five on
a film, I need to know that at the worst
case scenario, I can bring in three million in the

(31:32):
low column around the world. If I were to sell
the rights to my film to all of the territories
in the world and concluding the United States. So if
my low is three and my medium is four, and
my high as five, then I know I'm safe. That's
the only time I am then willing to put myself
in front of an investor and go, look, the this

(31:54):
is not a promise, there's no guarantee. But based on
our research, extensive valid, accurate research, based on this particular
the criteria of this film, these are our projections. And
then I'm entitled to ask that investor to write me
a check for one point five million dollars. And only then,

(32:17):
and when you think about going to that extent. Now,
of course you can have a presentation deck, but the
pitch teck is just designed to peak their interest. The
pitch deeck shouldn't be designed to, in my opinion, to
convince somebody to write me a check for a million
five All that should be is say, oh, this is interesting.
I like the idea, I like the people, I like

(32:38):
the concept. Let me sit down with these people and
find out what the skinny is. And now you start
presenting empirical data that shows an investor why this is
a good investment. And it can't just be because I'm
gonna win an Oscar someday and this is my first script.
That can't be the reason.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
I laugh because I've heard that story too many times.
This is gonna win an Oscar, or this is gonna
win Sundance, and it's gonna be good. We're all gonna
make millions of dollars.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, I don't, but I don't have a budget or
a schedule yet. I'll let you know what I do
so or cast or cast well, I mean cast. I
understand that's gonna take some time. But my point is
you have to take the steps. You just have to,
and you know, it's just it's gonna work against you,
and it's gonna and you know, and to your point earlier,

(33:29):
I got people that literally come back to me five
years later with the same project, right, and they're like
they've been through it all. They're like, okay, Franko, you know,
can we is there anything? And I'm like, well, what's changed? Like,
do you have any money in the bank, have you
attached any talent? You know, have you done this? Have
you done that? No? No, no, no, no, Well then
you're exactly where you were five years ago, and those

(33:49):
are the same people back to what you mentioned before,
that don't have any other projects. This is their film.
This is the one that they've been fighting for for
five years, which is great. I'm I'm all for fight
mm hmm. But don't just sit around with that one film,
you know, and not have any other options to present.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Uh, can you do me a favor? Can you turn
off your or close out your mail program my mail? Yeah,
because a hepa a ding, so it looks like emails
coming in.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Okay that, yeah, you're right, let me do that.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I'll edit this part out. No words, no words, No,
this is great. This is great.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
That should that should have done it? All right? Great?

Speaker 1 (34:33):
So with all the with all that you were talking
about selling overseas and selling different territories, how does the
new digital landscape play into all of your distribution plans
like the Netflix and the iTunes and the t V
O D and the s vo D. How does that
work now comparatively to just like five years ago, which
that really didn't exist in the same way.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Yeah, I mean it's essentially taken over, you know, which
isn't isn't a bad thing. It Look this, if you're
going to survive. I've been doing this for twenty years.
You're going to survive in this business, you have to
be willing to kind of, you know, move along with
the technology and go with the advancements. I mean, I
remember back when DVDs was the way we made our living.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Oh god, it was so much money back then.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
So much money. But you know, those days are over,
and that was a big shift to have to make.
And back in those days, when you went to a distributor,
there was no such thing as anything other than them
having the whole world to sell, right, So they had
the international and the domestic, and there was no distinction

(35:39):
in domestic within the domestic between theatrical or VOD or
digital because there was no such thing, like you said,
so there was no distinction. It was all one thing.
And then there was a moment I remember when some
of these companies started popping up, and there were some
of them are very good at it, that decided, oh, well,

(36:01):
we're good at digital, so let's just just your digital
mm hmmm. So now you're separating your rights three ways. Right.
You might have an international company for your foreign sales,
you have a domestic company for your domestic sales, and
then you separate again out yet one more time for
the for the for the digital. Now hopefully your domestic

(36:23):
people have a good enough relationship on that on those
platforms like we do, where you can kind of keep
you know, keep those things together. And but again, it's
so complex, and it goes back to what we're talking
about throughout this whole interview is that, you know, people
think it's so easy. They literally say to me, oh,
I'm going to bring this to Netflix right right, First

(36:46):
of all, you have to make it before you bring
it in.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
Yeah, this is a perfect Netflix movie. Do you have
a budget?

Speaker 3 (36:51):
Well? No, do you know you got? You got to
make it first, and look and look, I'm gonna go
back to even even more basic, is that when I
talk about these films, you know, I'm hard on a
lot of these first and second timers because I want
to help them. I'm not trying to embarrass them. I'm
not trying to make them feel foolish. I'm trying to

(37:11):
educate them and say, listen, guys, if you want to
fast track this thing, then you've got to pay attention.
You got to pay attention what's happening in this industry?
And when you make a film, there are three films
you make. It's the one that you write, and the
one that you shoot, and then the one that you edit.
And at the end of the day, it's up to
you as the filmmaker to deliver the good film that

(37:33):
we're all expecting here. So I don't care how great
your script is, and I don't care how amazing your
shoot was. If you get into the editing room and
you botch this thing up and it turns out to
be a piece of crap movie, which it can't happen,
and it has happened to me. I've had that happen
to me, where everything went great, but then the final

(37:53):
cut was just a disaster, and we had to keep
recutting it and recutting it to the point where we
cut it so bad that it came a loss. We
just couldn't get We just couldn't keep up with it.
So whatever you're out there, oh sorry about that, I
don't That's all right, We'll keep on all right. Whatever
you're out there, you know, promising that you're going to deliver,

(38:16):
you actually have to deliver, because otherwise, not only do
you run into the problem or potentially losing money for
your investors, but you could end up in a position
where you know you're going to have a hard time
getting a job.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
So, Franko, there's a big myth out there that I
hear a lot of, and I want you to see
if you can clarify this for me. A lot of
times filmmakers are like, oh, you know, we're trying to
get money, but they always told us. They always tell
us that if you have some money first, even if
it's a little bit, it helps. So if I'm looking
for a three hundred thousand dollars budget and I have
fifty grand in the bank that I raised with friends

(38:52):
and family, is it easier to get the gap financing
or for the rest of the money to show.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Up one hundred percent? Yes, So let's talk about that,
because that's another one of my little peeves. Right. Yeah, again, Look,
because because it is it is what it is, and
and and and and if you if you're going to
play the game, then you have to play by the
roles and and you can't make up your own as

(39:19):
you go along. Right, So the reality is absolutely not
only is it a good idea, it's a requirement if
you don't have at least thirty percent of your budget
on your own, then where is your skin in the game.
That's my question. This is your project, it's your you know,

(39:40):
life livelihood, it's your creation, and maybe you might even
be the director. So you cannot expect somebody to come
in and take one hundred percent of the risk on
your dream. Right. So if I'm going to go out
and raise three hundred thoughts, if I need three hundred thousand,
absolutely if you that's actually my structure.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
People who work and do films with me and through
me are required to bring in thirty percent. Now let
me explain that they don't have to go out and
get somebody to write a check for thirty percent. I
will help them. That's my skill set, right. So your
skill set might be creative, writing, directing, that's not my
skill set. My skill set is financing money, distribution and

(40:37):
closing investors. That's my skill set. So you do your job,
I'll do mine. But your job, as the filmmaker or
the rights holder of a project is to identify and
qualify a potential investor who could put up thirty percent.
So if you have that person, all you need to

(40:58):
do is set up a meeting or a Skype call
with me and you and that person, and I will
I will give them the information required for them to
make a sound decision about whether or not they should
put one hundred thousand dollars into your production account and
start the ball rolling. And then once they do that,
I can take it from there. I'll help you raise

(41:19):
I will raise the Adler two hundred thousand for you. Right,
that's part of my job. That's part of my function.
But I can't start from zero with just a script,
even if you have a great package, even if you've
done the development properly. You know, you know, I have
a lot of rules of thumb. One of them is
and again this depends on the budget, because most of
these budgets that I work with are like a million

(41:41):
to three million, right, So in that when you're in
that world, you should expect to spend at least twenty
five thousand dollars in development money. Okay, that should be
the first thing they're out looking for, is where am
I and a lot of people doing Kickstarter and all
that other stuff. Well, just great, there's a million ways
you can. You can find that money. But if you're committed,
you'll find a way to get that twenty five thousand dollars.

(42:02):
Twenty five thousand dollars put you in a position to
properly develop the film and do the things we talked about,
like a budget and a schedule and hiring a casting
director and bringing in an attorney, right, and all of
the getting an LLC and all of the things that
you need to do to make this thing real for investors.
That's you're comparing that to walking around with the script

(42:23):
and saying, give me a million dollars, or here's my
business here's my LLC, he's my business plan, here's my
bank account. And by the way, I got thirty percent
of that money in the account. Mister investor, would you
like to talk right, And.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Let's not forget the product placement memorandum as well.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
You need the PPM.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
Yeah, the PPM isn't that needed as well?

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Not really, I don't. I don't use them.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Oh, good, good to know. Yeah, i've heard, I've heard. Yeah,
but the LLC is something very important as well as.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, you need an LLC because you need a bank
account to get this to accept this money. Yeah, Because
here's the other thing. I will literally say again in
the class, how many of you, how many of you
guys are actively raising money for your features in like
you know, seventeen or twenty hands will go up, and
I'll say, okay, so, how many of you actually have
an LLC in the name of the movie. Now I'm

(43:16):
not talking about in the name of your production company
you or with right, but if you have a movie,
you should have an LLC set up in the name
of that movie. And then once you have at LLC,
you need to set up a bank account. Because and
when I asked that question, out of the eighteen people
who might have raised the hand, only two of them
still have to hand them right, which means I'm saying

(43:38):
to them, okay, So if you're out raising money right now,
when you came to me after the class and you
asked me to write you a check for one hundred
and fifty K, and I said, yes, who will I
make the checkout to? Jesus, I'm not going to make
it out to you because I'm not investing in you.
I'm not going to make it out to your production
company because that's not who I'm investing in either I'm
investing in your movie and you don't have any place

(44:00):
for me to put my money, and you're wondering why
you can't raise any because you haven't even get the
universe do you haven't provided a place within the universe
to receive this money.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
It's so basic and logical that it's scary. But there's
also that. But there's also when you create an LLC,
it's like, oh wow, this is starting to get And
I know how filmmakers think because I'm a filmmaker and
I've worked with so many that they think, Wait, if
I open up at LLC, now I have to do taxes,
and if you open one up in California, for God's sakes,
it's eight hundred dollars and I have to put an

(44:35):
investment in.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
Guess what else you can do the exact same thing
for fifty bucks. Wanting to tell you how, please do
the exact same thing for fifty bucks. Tell me you
get out of this county clerk's office in LA one
at the courthouse and one in I don't know, there's
two clerk houses in Los Angeles. If you live here
and you open up a DBA for twenty five dollars

(44:59):
in the of the movie, and you walk out of
the and I've done this a dozen times. You literally
walk out of that office at eleven o'clock in the
morning with a stamp, you know, form that they hand you,
and you by noon you're at your bank opening up
a bank account in the name of the movie under
a DBA. Doing business jazz.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Yeah, but that DBA would open up that DBA is
based off of your existing company.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
Correct, Well, no, it's a brand new This is a
brand new DBA. The only difference is technically and legally
it's actually a sole proprietorship, so it's it's under your name.
It's still it's like opening up an extra personal banking account,
but at least it's in the name of the film.
At which point later, when you create the LLC, you

(45:47):
can flip the account.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
That's genius, man.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
You can turn it from a DBA into an NLLC
so you don't have to pay the eight hundred dollars
in taxes. You can you can set up shop in Louisiana,
open up a LLC there if that's where you end
up shooting the film. But it's an interim time while
you're raising the money. You actually have a bank account
legally set up, you know, to that Now you're personally

(46:14):
responsible for that for that as income. So somebody writes
your check for one hundred grand, it's it technically looks
like you personally receive that money. That's a small price
to pay because you can flip that later.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Sure you get in taxes, you can, yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Can liability later. So all I'm saying is that not
opening an LLC is okay if you're not ready, But
that doesn't mean you can't open up a bank account
and start receiving funds.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
That's brilliant that that That's worth the entire interview just
for that little piece of advice because I know a
lot of filmmakers have an issue with that. I did
when I was opening up my first films. It's a
pay especially here in California. Yeah, now, what can we
talk a little bit about project financing feasibility which is

(47:03):
such a big thing and I know that's a big
word for a lot of the listeners, but man, you know,
I get I get I get pitched. I get pitched.
For God's sakes, I'm not even a money guy. I
get pitched movies constantly, which is I find hilarious. But
and they send these projects and you're just like and
they're like, look, it's I just need fifty I just

(47:24):
need twenty million. Just twenty million. I can make this
thing happen.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
Yeah about how about Robert de Niro and Brad Pittan
dying to do this film.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Together together?

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Yeah, but I just need the money. I have everything
I need except the money. That's the other one.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
I go, Oh, that's the that's yes, I have. All
I need is a check and we could we could start.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
We're ready to go, We're ready to rock.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
We could pull the trigger tomorrow. We're in production. So
I know it's funny, but it's we laugh because we've
both been through it, and it's and they've heard all
of that.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
I've heard.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I've heard the Oh yeah, all I need is just
a check and we could get the ball rolling. Like
everything else is in place. We could just need a
little gas of this engine. We've built the car. All
I need is a little gas.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Come on.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
So can you talk a little bit about project finance,
feasibility and the truth, the raw truth of what that is?

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Well, I mean, I mean, it's all of the above.
You know, like I said, it really comes down to,
you know, how many of these movies actually get made?
You know, when you consider how many areut there, people
say to me all the time, they're like, oh, Franco, Wow,
you know I looked at your IMGB and you got
like thirty eight films on you, And I'm like, yeah,
but that doesn't you can't see the three hundred and

(48:42):
eighty that I didn't get done right. You can see
the ones that I did, but you can't see all
the ones that didn't get done right because there's so
many factors involved, and sometimes you get so close and
sometimes the money isn't even real. I mean kidding me.
There's these schemes and these scams, and if you could

(49:03):
put in ten percent, we're gonna bring you to the
other ninety percent. You know, when people hear stuff like this,
you have to run the other way. You know. For me,
there's only one way to raise money is to sit
down in front of a check writer, an actual person,
a human being, and tell them your story. You know,
not your movie pitch, but your story. Because what these
people are doing is they're believing in you, right, and

(49:26):
they believe in you that you can execute what you
say you can execute, you know, and some people they
oversell themselves. It's not necessary. Sometimes what you have is
already enough. Don't have to exaggerate. You don't have to
paint this pie in the sky. What nobody's going to
respect you for that. If you're gonna sit down in

(49:47):
front of somebody who's going to potentially right you a check,
you're gonna be honest with them. You're gonna be able
to say things like, look, you may never see this
money again. You're gonna invest in me, and that's possible
that this thing might not work.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
But I'm going to tell you that I'm going to
do everything in my power, and I'm going to bring
all the resources that are available to me. And it's
what I say to my own investors. And I've done
this all one hundred times. But that doesn't guarantee it's
going to work this one this time, right, I can't
promise anything as soon as I hear people say to me,

(50:31):
But Franco, can you guarantee I go stop whatever is
going to come out of your mouth next? The answer
is no, right, because I do not use that word
in my presence. I cannot guarantee you a thing. There
are no guarantees. This is a business, this is a investment,

(50:52):
This is risk, and this is supposed to be fun. Right.
So what we're looking to do here is bring a
bunch of talented people together and make something really special,
something great. It's going to hopefully work, It's going to
resonate with the audience, with the movie going audience, and
it's going to maybe get some accolades along the way.

(51:13):
But it's going to do its job, and its job
is to get a message across to the world. Well
at the same time be able to at least pay
the investors back, make some money for the distributors and
for ourselves, and be able to live on, you know,
live to see the next day. So in terms of feasibility,
it really comes down to how practically you are going

(51:34):
into the situation and whether you're going to look at
this thing as a systematic approach. Look, I developed this
entire development program that I represent purely out of selfishness.
It really was because when I first started, I was
pulling my hair out, which is wild heavy. I was

(51:56):
pulling my hair out trying to figure this thing out,
because I was like this, this is insane. This is
the wild wild West, you know, running around town trying
to piecemeal this thing together. And I thought, here, we
have the studio system, which you know, I am not
a part of, nor am I interested in being a
part of. But the studio system works because it is

(52:18):
a system, right, there is a system. A project comes in,
it goes through a process, it gets green lit, some
more writers come in and work on it, and blah
blah blah, it ends up in five thousand theaters across
the country. That's a system. Well, we don't have that
in the independent world, and it was driving me nuts
because I operate best when I'm organized and I'm operating

(52:40):
with a system. So I created one for myself selfishly
by bringing in this twenty five thousand dollars for dilimaly,
spending that money. And by the way, what I do
with that twenty five thousand that comes in in development
If somebody invests in my movie as a development investor
for twenty five k, I return that money plus twenty percent,

(53:02):
but I return it out of the budget, right, so
those people get their money back thirty thousand before I
even shoot my first frame. They're out of the out
of the deal. They get their money, they get their
principal back, they get their twenty percent, and they're and
they're out. And then now and I and I add

(53:22):
that in as a line item in my budget as
a development cost. Right. So these these are little things
that I've learned along the way to help make this
thing make sense to the people that are involved and
to go down this track where there's a system in
place that it makes it feasible for an investor to

(53:42):
want to come in and pluck their money down.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Now, is there is there a system that because I've
heard many different kind of kind of financial structures of
how investors get their money back. I've heard the eighty
twenty rule. I've heard you know, all first moneies go
out to some people, and you know, filmmakers don't get anything.
What generally, is there a general rule of thumb? Is
there one that you go by as far as like

(54:07):
first moneys in X amount of dollars go back to
them and X amount of dollars and filmmakers, I don't know,
what's your financial breakdown? Is that something you can discuss.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
There's there's there are industry standards. So like I just
got one the other day in the email model just today,
I actually last night, and it said we're looking for
something like, I don't know, five or seven million dollars.
They were asking me personally to invest and they said
that they're looking for five or seven million dollars and
they were going to and that they were offering their
investor twenty five percent. Well, that's not how it works.

(54:38):
You know. How it works is you know, because the
first money is usually equity, because equity is the most
important thing, and that's what that thirty percent usually it
has to be. It has to be equity. It can't
be you know. People say to me, oh, I have
thirty percent. I go, oh, okay, can I see your
thirty percent? They go, well, I'm going to get a
tax credit in Louisiana. Well that's not your thirty percent.

(54:58):
That's a tax credit. That's a step thing. When I
talk about thirty percent, I mean I mean real hard
cash that has to be in your account, spendable cash, right,
So that's the money that gets returned first, is your equity.
In theory, but there are a lot of other people
by the time you get to the point where your
movie is actually funded and as actually recouping revey, there

(55:19):
are a lot of people that didn't get in line
ahead of that person, for example, the distributor, right, because
they're going to take twenty percent.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Off the top if you're lucky.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
So if you so, if you make a sale for
one hundred thousand, that one hundred thousand dollars sales technically
only eighty thousand because you have to give up your
commission to the distributor, so that eighty thousand becomes the
first money in, and that is the money. What happens,
is what's supposed to happen, is that whatever the investors

(55:51):
put up should be returned, yes, in first position, until
they recoup one hundred and twenty percent. So if they
put up a million dollars, then you're on the hook
for the money to go to the investors until you
recoup one point two million. So now you've you've repaid

(56:13):
your principal, your your interest has been paid to your investors.
So now they've made their money and their profit. But
then it's a fifty to fifty split, right, and fifty
cents of every dollar from that point for it goes
to those investors and the other fifty percent goes to us.
So we should be making money on these movies. We

(56:35):
should be making money if I make a movie for
a million two. If I make a movie for a
million and it makes five point two million, then after
my net one point two is paid out, this four
million dollars left over, two million of which goes to
the investor pool, and two million should come to us,
which gives me more money to be able to make

(56:56):
my next movie. And speaking of that, I often see
this is that the the investors aren't usually most investors
savvy investors who are investing in film. They're not doing
it because they're going to make twenty percent. Somebody who
can write a check for a million or two million

(57:16):
dollars doesn't need us to make twenty percent on their money,
right right. They're doing it because of the potential upside.
So when you talk about things like a Paranormal Activity
or My Big fut Greek Wedding, and those movies they
did exceed expectations, those are the ones we hear about

(57:37):
for that reason. Because somebody put in a million bucks
in May, twenty million or one hundred.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Million that's and that's what they're looking for.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
That's what they're looking for. Is the potential upside is
that because it's not about the twenty percent return, it's
about what happens after that.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Now, can you give any advice on how to attach
bankable stars to a project? I know that's a I mean,
that's a big value if you have someone attached? And
what is the term attached? Really mean? Letter of intent?
All this kind of stuff. There's a lot of gray,
murky water in that situation.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
You're really trying to get me going, aren't you? Oh?

Speaker 1 (58:16):
Boy, Yeah, I got I got a letter of intent.
I got a letter of intent from Brad Pitt. Look
he signed it, and I could I just need ten mil?

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Who cares? That's how I feel about Lois? Who cares?
You know what I care about? I care about picking
up the phone and calling the agent and saying, is
Brad attached? As you read the script? Because nine times
out of ten, no Christian, ten times out of ten,
that is not the case. To me an, LOI is meaningless. Okay,

(58:47):
it really is for a couple of reasons. Number one,
a lot of the ones I get are three and
four years old. They're outdated. Sure, they've been holding on
to this thing for dear life.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Yes, they do hold on to dear life, don't they.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
Yeah, I have somebody bring me an LOI for Shirley maclan.
I was so excited. I've always wanted to work with her.
And I looked at the thing and I swear to god,
it was day of two thousand and nine. Oh god,
I'm like that was in one of her past lives
when she said it.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
I actually, I actually once had a LOI that was
from an actor who had had recently passed.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
That's the way. Yeah, I'm telling you it's insane. So,
but more importantly, you're going to look at the content
of these lois. They mean nothing. They're so tentative, and
they're like, you know, if maybe possibly someday you might,
you know, happen to stumble on a few dollars, we
might think about reading the script and possibly considering having

(59:44):
our actor be in your movie. I mean, it really
doesn't mean anything. They just don't hold any water. And
a lot of the times, what if they're issued at all.
A lot of the time it's just to get you
off their back, the agent, to get you off their back.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Right, We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
Because here's the problem. And again I get criticized to
saying stuff like this, but you know what, I can't
worry about that. At the end of the day, we
should not be going out and using these actors in
order to raise our money. We should be getting the money.
Because it's the catch twenty two, right, Sure, the catch

(01:00:30):
twenty two is I can't get actors unless I have money,
and I can't get money unless I have actors. Well,
if you had to pick one of those, go get
the money first. That's what I do, and I'll tell
you how in a minute. But the fact is, if
you're running around using Shirley MacLean or Brad Pitt or
any of these people as a way to raise money
for your movie, you're doing it wrong because you don't

(01:00:51):
even have there. Just because you have a letter of
intent doesn't mean anything. The chances that these people have
any idea who you are or that you even exist
on this planet are no. They don't know. They don't
know that you exist, and the agent does. The agent
might because somebody had an issue that LOI. But at
the end of the day, you don't have anything. You

(01:01:13):
don't have anything. When you have somebody attached for me,
that means I can pick up the phone and I
can call their attorney or their manager or their agent,
and I can and I can hear somebody on the
other end of the phone say, yes, he or she
has read the script. There love the script, and pending
their schedule and an offer, we are willing to talk.

(01:01:38):
We're willing to come on board this project, you know,
pending pending schedule in a formal offer that's attached to me.
That's somebody who I can work with, because now I
know what I have to go to do in order
to get them. But as far as an LOI is concerned,
it's so flimsy, and you know, it's really raising money

(01:01:59):
off of profosset pre tenses, because what happens if you
do raise that money and then those people say, no way,
I'm not interested in this movie. What are you talking about? Right?
And now how are you going to go back to
the investors. So the answer to that is to get
your investors to put up the money on a contingency basis.

(01:02:20):
Have it be cast contingent. Say listen, I need a
half a million bucks and I needed to put in
my production account so I can show proof of funds,
so that I can show the world the agents and
the talent that I'm for real, because otherwise it just
like everybody else running around, you know, talking about something
that doesn't exist. So put the money in my account

(01:02:42):
and have the contract with your lawyers say which is
something that you should be buttoning down during your development phase,
Which is why that's twenty five thousand dollars development money.
So important is that you have the right lawyer who
can do these things and knows how to do these
things properly, and have that agreement be contingent that I'm
going to put up this five hundred thousand dollars contingent

(01:03:02):
on you getting one of these five actors. And you
make a list, and if you don't get those fab
five actors, you don't get my half million. So you
can sit and play with my half million for six months,
but if you haven't locked so many down in six months,
I'm taking my money back. Because now, as the filmmaker,

(01:03:26):
you have power because you get to go out and
have that conversation because what do you think there's two questions.
There's three questions the agent's going to ask when you
pick up that phone. Number one, who's directing? Yes? Number
two are you financed? And number three do you have distribution?

(01:03:49):
Those are typically the questions that I get asked. But
I'm coming in as an executive producer, so they're usually
going to say instant if I'm calling, I probably have money,
right right, But that's just because I have a track cricket.
But if you don't have a track record, they're not
going to make that assumption, and you have to be

(01:04:09):
able to say, yes, I have proof of funds. Can
you money?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Can you discuss real quick about first time directors, because
I've gone through this in my career multiple times, this
whole concept of the first time director. And you know,
filmmakers have a script and they wrote the script and
they want to direct, but they've never stepped foot on
a set and they want ten million, like it does happen,

(01:04:35):
but it doesn't happen often. Can you talk a little
bit about the realities of first time directors and based
on budget, like if you're making a fifty thousand dollars movie,
one hundred thousand dollars movie, I'm assuming the first time
director is a little because there's less risk. But on
a one, two, three, five million dollar movie with a
first time director doing an action movie, for god's sakes,

(01:04:56):
you know how, what's your perspective on it?

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Well, the perspective is simple, it's not gonna happen. Who's
gonna work with you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Straight up?

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
Who's gonna work with you? Because if you're gonna make
a million here we go again. If you're gonna make
a movie for five million dollars, you got to know
that you can return seven to ten million if you're
if you're going to come out of the gate with
an expectation upon yourself to bring in seven to ten
million dollars in gross revenue a on your first film,

(01:05:26):
you need some major, major name talent in that movie
to make the draw. And who is going to work
with you? That's my question. It's that simple. Who are
you going to go get three action stars to come
and work with you as a first time director, Because
if you think you are, and unless you're you know,
related to them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Which I've worked with those as well.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
Yeah, either related to them or married to them, then
it's not gonna happen. So at the end, of the day.
It makes no sense and it's a to me, it's
just a fantasy. And it's exactly what I was talking
about before. It's like, I don't support that. I just don't.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen. And God love you
if you're able to succeed, but don't come knocking on

(01:06:11):
my door. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Too.

Speaker 3 (01:06:19):
That's because I'm in my car.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Yeah I got to I got to see someone was
literally knocking out your door.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
I always tell filmmakers the advice I give them is like, look,
if you got a five million dollar movie you want
to direct, go make three or four fifty thousand dollars movies.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Well I was about a fifty thousand. But that's what
what I was saying to you earlier. Is that graduate
you know, Yeah, you know, because because fifty thousand is
going to be tough to sell just as bad because
the production value, you're not going to be there. So
the goal, the goal is you want to make a
decent movie and you and you know, make something for
two fifty to fifties, reasonable to fifty something that most

(01:06:57):
people who were committed to having a lifelong career in
this business can figure out how to do, you know,
make a movie for two hundred fifty thousand dollars. Have
enough money to do the things you want to do
to make this movie. Don't make don't try to make
too big of a movie for that kind of a budget.
Make something small and contained that works, you know, and
get distribution.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I got a Can you talk a little bit about
like some keys to getting a distribution?

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Yeah? I mean I had a filmmaker who came to
me and it was her third time, it was a
third film, and I looked, great, she's not a first
time filmmaker. Blah blah blah. She was graduating from like
a half a million dollar movie to one point five
million dollar movie, and it all seemed to make sense.
The problem was, once I started shopping her out to
a lot of my distributors, they quickly did some research

(01:07:44):
on her and realized, although this was her third feature film,
neither of her first two films ever got distribution. Oh
so that so you have to really understand that this
is how this thing works. Is so now just being
able to say I made a three hundred and fifty
thousand or a five hundred thousand dollars movie isn't enough

(01:08:07):
if the movie never went anywhere and it's sitting on
a shelf and nobody's ever going to see it except
your family of Thanksgiving, right, So that's not even enough
to have it be your third directorial, you know, attempt
because you haven't succeeded in the first two to get
distribution right. So one of the things you want to

(01:08:31):
do is why a lot of people do go to AFM,
you know this time of year, is to start building
relationship with distributors and see if you can get somebody
who's interested in your project enough to the extent that
they'll start a conversation with you about coming onto your film.
It's you know, especially if it's a low budget feature.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
So I have a few last questions because I don't
want to take up any more time. I know you're
in the middle of your conference, so thank you so
much for taking the time out that you have. These
are questions. Ask all of my guests, Uh, what advice
would you give a filmmaker wanting to break into the
business today?

Speaker 3 (01:09:08):
Take your time, take your time and learn as much
as you can. You know, go to these classes, go
to these seminars, go to these events, get out there
and meet people and learn, learn, learn. You know, it's
one thing to learn the craft of writing and all that,

(01:09:30):
and that's great, but learn the craft of business in
the in the in the film business.

Speaker 1 (01:09:36):
Can you tell me what book had the biggest impact
on your life or career?

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Oh? Boy, oh, I can never I can never remember
who his name is? Bernstein? Uh, it was something. It
was something called You're nobody unless you've been sued in
this town.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
That's a great diet. Well, yeah, we'll be right back
after a word from our sponsor, and now back to
the show.

Speaker 3 (01:10:12):
And I can't remember. And then there was another book
about David Geffen's life. I can't remember the title of
that either. Early on, but those were two books that
really had a profile and effect on it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
And what lesson took you the longest to learn, whether
in the film business or in life.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
The longest to learn probably would have to be fake
it until I make it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Yes, amen, brother, that's a good one. Hey, can you
name three of your favorite films of all time?

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Well, my favorite film of all time. People make fun
of me for this is a sunset Boulevard.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
I just think that's a classic.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
It is wonderful. It's wonderful, And.

Speaker 3 (01:10:58):
I hate to say it because I don't don't have
any really contemporary because I'm an old film buff. Sure,
but I love All About Eve.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Okay, another good one, Yes, and pretty.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Much any any any Betty Davis movie, anything that Betty
Davis or Joan Crawford did, including uh, the one when
they both were together and they played sisters.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, the one that they didn't they
just make that show about it.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
Yeah, whatever happened to Baby Jane?

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
Yeah? Okay, what was that? What was that Preston Sturgis
movie about the writer who goes on the train and
discover and wants to discover like what it's real? Do
you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 3 (01:11:44):
I think so. I can't grab the title out, I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
Yeah, but Preston anything Preston Sturges is amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
Yeah. I loved also, if you know why, because I
love the days when there wasn't a lot of special
effects and it was just real storytelling and the art
form of acting and telling the story through dialogue. And
I love those old movies so so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
And I'll ask you this question. I'm not sure if
you want to answer it, But where can people find you?

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Listen, I'm I'm not you know, I'm not difficult to reach. Okay,
you know, I'm I'm you know. People can call me
or email me, and I think even my cell phone
is like on my IMDb page. But the best way
to reach me is through my website, which is somacofilms
dot com, and they can also I can be emailed

(01:12:32):
directly if people have any questions about any of the
stuff that we're talking the more deeply at Franco at
samcofilms dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Franko, Man, thank you so much for taking out the time.
I really appreciate and I hope that we've done some
good here today.

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
I hope well, Alex, I hope so too, and I
thank you and I appreciate the opportunity to to vent
a little bit. Thanks Recca, all right, man, take care.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Did you guys take notes? I hope you did, because
I definitely did. I want to thank again Franco for
coming onto the show and again being so generous with
his time, his experience, and his knowledge and really helping
filmmakers out there really understand the process of what it's
like to go get money and how to do it properly.

(01:13:20):
And I think it's been an amazing service doing this episode.
And I really again share this episode with as many
people as you can because it is just so valuable
this information. It's essentially a masterclass of something that they
do not teach at any film school that I know of. Now,
if you want links to anything we talk about in

(01:13:41):
the show, please head over to Indie film Muscle dot
com fort slash to zero two for the show notes.
And today, guys, is November twenty eighth, and it is
early morning on Tuesday, And if you're listening to this
episode at that time, today is the last day of
the ten dollars sale for all filmmaking, screenwriting, cinematography marketing

(01:14:05):
courses on You Demi. All you gotta do is head
over to Indi film Hustle dot com forward slash d
e m y. That's Indie Film Hussele dot com forward
slash you Demi. Now, it is the holiday season, and
as always, Santa Alex has a bunch of gifts and
a bunch of great stuff coming up for you in
December and an insanely explosive January twenty eighteen on the book,

(01:14:31):
So get ready for some major content coming your way
and some major hopefully value as well. So thanks again
guys for everything. And I posted images from our first
winner of the Stephen Pressfield contest on our Facebook page
as well as our Twitter, so please check that out.
And if you guys any of the winners get when

(01:14:53):
you guys get the packages, please take a picture and
tweet it out or email us or faceboo, book us
or whatever, just get it to us so we can
share it with the rest of the Indie Film Hustle tribe.
And as always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
Indiefilm Hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
F I L M h U S T l E
dot com.