IFH 799: What Every Indie Filmmaker Can Learn from a $5K Zombie Movie with Bojan Dulabic

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the INDIEILM Muscle Podcast, Episode number seven ninety nine.
Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
Roman Polanski.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
I am your humble.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
Host Alex Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur
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filmbiz book dot com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy
today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.

Speaker 5 (01:54):
Tuining me today is Boon Dulabic. Boyon is a Vancouver
filmmaker and he just really he's the zombie feature film
project jugenics Bollyon, How are you, sir?

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Good? Good? Thank you for having me my friend.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
Oh, it's my pleasure. You know.

Speaker 5 (02:09):
We met through Jason Brubaker's site. I ended up meeting
so many people because of Jason. I should really give
him a producer credit. For this podcast.

Speaker 6 (02:17):
It's a he's a great resource man. I've written a
few articles for his blog and yeah, he's a great guy,
great guy.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:26):
And the article that got us introduced, so to speak,
was the article he wrote called how I made a
zombie film for five thousand dollars. And at first when
I saw that, you know, I thought Jason may have
wrote that, and I was like, wow, Jason made another
zombie film. And I said, oh wait, it's this guy Bollyon,
he just wrote it. I started to learn more about you. So,
you know, that's what we're going to talk about this
podcast is. You know, I'm sure a lot of people

(02:46):
probably saw that and was thinking, my god, how do
you make a zombie film for five thousand dollars, let
alone a feature zombie film?

Speaker 3 (02:52):
You know, five thousand dollars? So Bullyan get started. You know,
how did you get into the film industry?

Speaker 5 (02:58):
Me?

Speaker 6 (02:59):
Yeah? Oh man, that goes back a long time. You
know how every filmmaker has this story. You know, when
I was seven, my daddy bought me a camera and
you know, I started filming and I started to think
about that, how did it actually happen with me? And
I realized it actually goes as far back as when
I was five years old. I'm originally from Bosnia, which
is in eastern Europe, and my mom actually had her

(03:22):
own store and in there she also had a video
store at the time, and so obviously, you know, I
was I think I was around five. I started watching
movies and it was all Hollywood movies and I loved it, right,
And so in nineteen ninety there was a war in
Bosnia and we moved to Germany and lived there as refugees,
and I just, you know, I just loved movies. But

(03:45):
not just movies. I mean, I think every kid loves movies.
I love to watch making off you know. And you know,
back then we're talking early nineties, there was no internet,
there was no YouTube, you know, so finding out how
movies were made it was not that easy. So luckily
there was some show so I would as much as
I could. And then in nineteen ninety eight, we moved

(04:05):
to Croatia because I'm Croatian from Bosnia, so we moved
there and we lived there for three years, and then
we moved to Canada. And it was in Canada in
high school Winnipeg, City of Winnipeg where I really developed
an interest for acting and for filmmaking. And it was
I was in grade ten, and yeah, I just loved it.

(04:26):
I you know, I started with simple slide shows and
I did my first short film in I think it
was my grade twelve class English class. It was a
creative project and you know, I was like, I don't
feel like doing another paper, and I was like.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
Hey, man, can I make a movie? And my teacher
was like, sure, why not? And so I did.

Speaker 6 (04:46):
And that was really when I started doing it and
got more and more into it. Then I started doing
videography for actually the school division that my high school
was part of at that time. They they saw some
of my stuff that I was doing and because for
whatever project school project that, you know, if I could

(05:09):
do a video about it, I would, you know. And
so my teachers kind of, you know, gotten to know
my my filmmaking abilities and all that stuff. And so
it started there. And then I went to the University
of Winnipeg studying theater. Didn't do any I didn't take
any film courses or anything. Everything when it comes to
filmmaking was pretty much self taught, you know.

Speaker 4 (05:31):
By making a lot of mistakes, you know, and you know,
you know how it goes.

Speaker 6 (05:37):
And then in two thousand and seven, I moved to Vancouver,
where I am now to you know, pursue acting and filmmaking.
So yeah, and you know, I just kept doing short films,
you know, my my YouTube channel, web shows, you know,
that kind of stuff. And then in twenty twelve, I
finally decided I'm going to make my first feature, which

(06:00):
was a comedy at the time, and that one I
actually made for four thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
It was even less, but it was a lot simpler.

Speaker 6 (06:07):
It was said mostly in one location, and you know,
talking heads kind of comedy. And yeah, when that one
was done, because I'm a you know, zombie nerd and
sci fi and horror geek, you know, I was like, okay.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
You know what, I think I can do this.

Speaker 6 (06:25):
Initially, I actually, uh my goal was to make this
movie for three thousand dollars, but you know, I realized, okay,
that's I'm pushing it with five, but with three, I'm
really that's just ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
So yeah, then you know.

Speaker 6 (06:40):
In uh when was it early twenty late twenty thirteen,
early twenty fourteen, around there, I had this idea for
you know, this the zombie flick, and started writing and
by this summer or was it, yeah, bye, by late
summer of twenty fourteen, I had my you know, first
draft and then I started you know, started thinking about

(07:04):
casting and all that. Started casting in October ish of
twenty fourteen, and November first we started shooting. So it
was it was very quick process and you know then
editing took longer. But also, if you want to add
one more crazy element to the mix, I also got

(07:25):
married three months ago, so yeah, exactly, so you know,
obviously you know that's important and in many ways that's
more important than the movie, you know, but I'm a filmmaker,
so you know, we're crazy people. So yeah, I managed
to you know make all that work. And you know,

(07:45):
I have an amazing wife who just I can't think
her enough for you know, putting up with me.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
So yeah, that's kind of how I got into it.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
You know, you know, that was pretty quick from you know,
having that initial idea to actually getting you know, start
shooting the the film. And you know, if there's one
thing you do need when making a film, it's another
crazy element to work against you, right. Yeah, So how
long did it take you to actually write the script then,
from you know, from concept to actually writing a full
page screenplay.

Speaker 6 (08:15):
I would say took about until I had my first draft.
I'd say about seven months, six seven months around there. Yeah,
once I had the first draft, the rest was very
you know, relatively quick, but you know, getting it up
there to the first draft, yeah, i'd say about that
around there.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
So when you were writing the screenplay, did you try
to like immerse yourself into zombie films? So, tell of
the other guests I've had on the show. One of
the things that I've noticed is whatever their theme or
genre they're writing for, all they will watch and read
about is just that one thing. So I imagine if
you use that method, all you were watching was zombie films.

(08:51):
Now did you did you follow that method?

Speaker 4 (08:53):
Absolutely? Absolutely?

Speaker 6 (08:55):
And you know, as my wife will testify because she
hates horror, it was yes, I do the exact same thing.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
I mean, I you know, I bought a book.

Speaker 6 (09:06):
About zombies, and I, you know, rewatch pretty much every
zombie movie I have, and you know, whatever else is
on Netflix, and you know, and you know out there
because you have to, I mean, you really have to.
I mean, to me, a zombie flick, a good zombie flick.
It's never it's not about the zombies, right, It's always

(09:27):
about something else. And then obviously use the zombies to
tell the story, so they're more storytelling device. So to me,
it was really the main thing was, Okay, what is
this movie about? Figure figuring out what's my angle?

Speaker 4 (09:41):
You know what? Because I mean, zombie movies have been done.

Speaker 6 (09:44):
To death obviously, and we all love it, but there's
one every week coming out, So how what can I
offer that's you know, a little unique, that's a little
you know, outside the box.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.

Speaker 6 (10:06):
So you know, that was my main thing as I
was watching, like I said, all these these zombie flakes
and reading and all that, and once I had that,
you know, idea, and once I figured that out, then
the rest was a lot easier. You know, it still
wasn't easy, but it was easier, you know.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
And you're right though, you know, there is seemingly a
new zombie film coming out every week. You know, I
was just talking about it to my one friend and
you know, he's not in the film industry, but he
watches a ton of films and he's like, you know what,
I'm so sick of zombies. He's like, Dave, I don't
want to watch any zombie films. I ended up trying
to talk him into watching a zombie film after that
because actually, and one of the things that I've you know,

(10:54):
as producing movies, I've noticed is is that they always ask,
you know, what is your unfair advantage? Uh? You know,
if you're pitching to somebody, you know, what is your
unfair advantage? You know, what is our unique selling position?

Speaker 3 (11:05):
Uh? You know, and that's.

Speaker 5 (11:06):
Something that you were you know, you've you've kind of
hit on there. Uh you know, because you have to
make it. What's going to be unique about your you know,
your film?

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (11:14):
You know, anyone listening to this, I'm not even talking
about making a zombie fl I'm talking about making any film.
You know, how are you going to make it unique
that so it stands out from the crowd? And you know, obviously,
you know, Boyon, one of the things you did was
you know, uh, you know, you put your own style
into it. Uh you know, I don't know if it
words in your mouth. But you know, I actually why
don't I just ask you? So, what are some of
the things that you that you wanted to make sure

(11:36):
you got in there that made it sort of your style,
made it your movie that you can help stand out.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (11:40):
Sure, yeah, I mean, you know, growing up the way
I did, you know, moving around a lot, and you know,
being part of different cultures and all and all that
stuff was great on one hand because it really gave
me insight into just just humanity, right, I mean, uh,
just understanding how the world works.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
Right.

Speaker 6 (12:03):
But on the other hand, it also made me the
constant outsider, you know. I mean, as much as I
tried to fit in, you know, it's difficult, right. So
that's kind of you know what I tried to bring
to this. It's you know, interestingly enough if well, if
if I can use that word for lack of a
better word, you know, the things that are happening lately

(12:26):
just around the world and all that it. You know,
it really seems like like a zombie flick in one hand,
in the sense that you know, one of the things,
for example, I tried to accomplish in this movie was
I'm trying I'm trying to say without giving away you know,
plot lines, but essentially a lot of it deals with information.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
You know, what's happening, Uh, you know, person A tells.

Speaker 6 (12:51):
You, this person B tells you, this person C tells
you this you know, and all that stuff, and you're
kind of stuck in the middle, going, I don't know
what's going on, you know. So that was kind of
what I try to bring into it, a certain a
safe confusion. I watched an interview with Tarantino a long
time ago where he talked about I think he was

(13:12):
talking about reservoir Dogs or or pulp pulp fiction, one
of the two, and he was talking about this concept
that he calls a safe confusion, where you know, you
want the audience to be confused in terms of okay,
what's going on, but at the same time, it has
to be safe in the sense you haven't lost them
right as you as you unfold the story, you know,
you want them to be safe and keep watching.

Speaker 4 (13:34):
But yet there's a certain.

Speaker 6 (13:35):
Amount of confusion they need to have because that's when
they'll they'll engage more. So that's what I tried to
do with the way I structured the story, which, again
without giving too much away it. It's a bit different,
and you know, it's not a simple, okay from A

(13:55):
to B kind of a scenario, so on one and
I try to do that with the structure of the story,
and I try to, like I said, I try to talk.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
About real well quote unquote real.

Speaker 6 (14:09):
Things that that do happen in in the world, which
you know, the way the world is being portrayed by,
whether it's the media, by by just individuals, by you know,
whoever it is. Because I do believe, you know that
we live in in like I said, interesting times where
we have so much access to technology.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
I mean, it is crazy.

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Man.

Speaker 6 (14:32):
I'm sitting right now. You know, you don't see it,
but I'm sitting in front of two screens. I got
my tablet, I got my phone.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
There's way too much technology in here. You know.

Speaker 6 (14:41):
It would take me five seconds to look up anything
whatever I'm interested in, you know. So that's great on
one hand, but on the other hand, there's also I
feel this this confusion as to you know, what is
going on in the world. You know, like I said,
whether it's politics, but whatever it is, it doesn't really matter,
you know, it's not my job as a filmmaker. To

(15:01):
tell you what's going on, because I don't I don't
think that's what we should be doing. But it's simply
my job to talk about these things. And yeah, you
make up your mind. I don't, you know, it's I respect,
you know, whatever opinions people have. But uh yeah, if that,
if that makes any sense, that's kind of what I
tried to bring into this, to make it more than
just a you know, just you know, just a dumb

(15:25):
zombie flick, because like I said, I love zombies, but
it shouldn't just be about the zombies. It's it should
be more than that, you know.

Speaker 5 (15:34):
Yeah, definitely, And you know, I think The Walking Dead,
you know, hit touches on that theme. Uh, I mean,
you know, obviously Romero he really set the tone fall
of it with Night Living Dead, and you know, then
he went into into consumerism with Dawn of the Dead,
and then we went into the.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Whole Day of the Dead.

Speaker 5 (15:50):
I mean, I actually just rewatched Data Dead a while ago,
and it actually was a.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Lot better than I remembered.

Speaker 5 (15:55):
I remember, you know, in high school, watching the three
of those, and I remember liking Dawn the most. I
was far and away and I came back and re
visited Day to Day recently and I was like.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Wow, it's a lot better than I remembered it. Maybe
I was just too stupid as a kid. I don't know.

Speaker 6 (16:08):
No, absolutely no, I absolutely agree. I mean, interestingly enough,
I mean, Ramiro is obviously one of my top zombie
well I think he is the top zombie god, you know,
the film God. But interesting enough, it was actually Diary
of the Dead. I don't know if you've seen that
one that I mean, I've seen all of them, but
that one was really the one that stood out to me,

(16:30):
and the one that I would say probably inspired me
the most in terms of you know what I want
to talk about, because it does deal with different sort
of similar themes just in the sense that you know,
everything's well, it's slightly different, but you know, technology plays
a big part and and you know a certain like

(16:51):
I said, confusion as to what's going on and manipulation.

Speaker 4 (16:55):
Yeah, that's the right word.

Speaker 6 (16:57):
So yeah, no, I agree. You know, Romero was a
big influence on me as well. You know, I mean,
there's plenty of them. If we step slightly out of
the zombie genre. Robert Rodriguez is my one of my
top guys, just in terms of executing a movie. I mean,
I'm sure I'm not the first one to say this.
When I heard way way back that, you know, when

(17:19):
he made El Mariachi for seven thousand dollars, you know,
I was like, really, get out of here, you know,
I was. I read it somewhere in the book. This
was before I, you know, started really started on my
filmmaking a journey, and I was like, good god, man,
if he made that back in ninety two, why shouldn't
I be able to do you know, my version of

(17:42):
it by today's standards, which should be better because technology
is better, it's cheaper.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
You know, all that stuff.

Speaker 6 (17:48):
So that's really you know, when when this seed was
planted in my head that you know, I don't need.

Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yes, it would be great.

Speaker 6 (17:56):
If I had one hundred thousand dollars, a million dollars,
you know whatever, Right, I don't, so, but I'm pretty
confident I can. I can do this, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yeahs we as filmmakers today, you know, Jason and I
talked about this too. Was we have so much information
being thrown at us, and a lot of the times,
you know, we end up not actually making a film.
We talk about making a film, we sit there and
we research every camera package. And you know this, boyan,
there's a new camera package coming out every other day.

(18:28):
It's you know, Red is over there in Cannon and
Panasonic and here's a black Magic and I mean, it's
just it's a never ending deluge of new camera packages.
And now you spend more time reading about cameras and
lighting kits than you do actually writing the screenplay and going, hey,
wait a minute, maybe I should make this. But wait, first,
I got to look at the new camera packages. I

(18:49):
think I think Road just released a new audio kit.
I gotta look at that, you know, And I think
that's sort of it's it's it's paralysis through analysis.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
That that's the best way to describe it. And you
know that's it.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
But it's good though that you read Rodriguez's book and
then you know realized, hey, you know, why couldn't I
make this zombie film for five thousand dollars? No.

Speaker 6 (19:08):
Absolutely, and to go back to the whole gear fetish
as I like to call it. Absolutely, I agree, and
I think we all suffer from that.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
I do too. Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (19:20):
You know, you know this this evolution of technology in
terms of you know, filmmaking related technology is amazing. But yes,
at some point you have to stop yourself and say,
you know what, that's great. And yes, in reality, if
I make this movie today, if I had waited a
year longer, certain aspects would of it would probably.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
Be easier to make.

Speaker 6 (19:42):
But then you're in this endless cycle where yeah, you'll
never make anything because you know, things are always getting better, easier.
I mean for this film, I used the black Magic
Pocket Cinema camera, which and I you know, I really
wanted to use it for this flick because you know,
because of various things, and we can totally talk about
that too.

Speaker 2 (20:01):

Speaker 6 (20:12):
But you know, if I had waited, for example, until now,
you know, I could have used the micro what is it,
the black Magic micro studio camera. They got this really
small one, which would have allowed me to do even
fancier shots, you know what I mean. So yeah, you
can get crazy just thinking about all that stuff. So yeah,

(20:35):
it's uh, it's great, and but on one hand you
have to stop yourself and say, yeah, do this now,
and yeah when yeah, going back to Rodriguez. I mean,
you know, when I you know, read about him in
a different book and started reading his book and all
that stuff. You know, the one thing and Jason talks

(20:57):
about this too, the one thing that you know, certainly
filmmakers who are you know, beginning beginner filmmakers.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
There are certain myths.

Speaker 6 (21:08):
That we start to believe, which is, you know, well,
you have to have whatever a million dollars to make
a movie, or you know, have to you have to
have twenty people on crew, you know, to do all
this blah blah, and don't get me wrong it certainly
you know, there are specific budgets for specific types of
movies that you should have and all that. However, you know,

(21:31):
if you get creative, you can make I'm not going
to say you can make everything work, because there are
certain things that really you know, probably not gonna work.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
But most things you can.

Speaker 6 (21:41):
And you know, like Rodriguez said in an interview and
in his book, you know, take stock of what you have,
you know, take stock of of of the relationships you
have built and what do you have access to, and
make a movie about that. You know, I did that
for my first movie. I did that for this movie,
and I mean, you should always challenge yourself and you

(22:02):
know grow, so you know that's that's obviously important. But
don't be afraid, man, just get out and do it.
And yeah, you're gonna make mistakes, you know you're. In
my opinion, the best thing I could have done for
this movie and my other movie was not to think

(22:22):
everything through, you know what I mean, because a lot
of times we become our own enemy when we start
dissecting everything.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
You know.

Speaker 6 (22:31):
I mean you need to have a game plan, absolutely,
but there are certain things where you'll just have to
deal with it if it occurs or you know, as
it unfolds, because you don't have all the answers. I mean,
good guy, man, I've you know, I've been on set
as an actor on professional sets, and I always love
to observe the crew because you know, that's the filmmaker

(22:52):
in me. And you think they have all the answers
with millions of dollars of budgets. No, So sometimes you
just take things as they are, but don't be afraid
to just dive in there and you know, get your
feed wet.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, very true.

Speaker 5 (23:07):
You know, oftentimes we think, you know, we we have
to have this large amount of money to do things.
And the key I think is if we are going
to set out to make a movie and we're gonna
fund it ourselves or even crowdfund or even crowdfund, you
know a certain amount of money, I think the script
has to be written that way on purpose, meaning that

(23:29):
you know, we're not going to be able to do
all these wonderful special effects unless either a you know
how to do it personally, like you as the as
the director or whoever know how to do that.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
And I've seen filmmakers do that.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
They they are special effects guys by trade, so all
the VFX stuff looks amazing, you know, all the bull
time stuff. And then on the flip side of that,
you know they're hoping to you know, maybe form it out,
maybe going to somewhere like Upwork or somewhere to find
somebody maybe in like you know, India or something that
could do it for a cheaper price. But you know,
boring that, you know, I think if you are going

(24:01):
to rate, you know, make a movie, and let's just
say we have one thousand dollars to spend, like kind
of like what Mark Duplas was recommending, just go making
movies as cheap as possible to learn how to make movies.
We should make that, you know, we should write. Hey, listen,
what do I have access to? I have access to
my car, my house, this woods next to me. I
can use my aunt Susie's house. You know, how am

(24:23):
I going to figure out? How can I make this
into a movie that you know is going to keep
audiences engaged? Well, maybe I don't have enough for ninety minutes.
Maybe I have enough for twenty minutes. So maybe I
should make a short film instead and just build off
from there.

Speaker 6 (24:37):
Absolutely absolutely agree with everything. I mean, that's you know,
that's exactly what I tried to do on this one.
You know what I really wanted to do on this
one that I didn't do on the first one was
having more actors, having more locations, right. I really wanted
to step up the production value on that side. But

(24:59):
of course, you know, there's no budget really for those things.
So I knew, okay, I have access to certain places.
You know, I shot at my brother's place, I shot
at my buddy's place. You know, I had access to
a studio, so I was able to shoot some stuff there.
And you know, for example, you talked about VFX. I'm

(25:20):
not a professional VFX guy. However, I am actually getting
more and more into it. But I knew that, okay,
I can do certain things with you know, with VFX,
and and I do talk about this. I think I
talked about that in the article as well. For example,
I used Video Co Pilots plugins for after effects, and

(25:42):
they allowed me to animate you know, jets and drones
and all that kind of stuff and you know, create
certain shots that I couldn't have gotten otherwise, not with
my budget. Right, so you know, understanding that, okay, I
can bring this to the game. And I think I
talk about this too in the article. I you know,

(26:05):
made use of stock footage, which in my opinion, stock
footage when used properly and sparingly and all that, there's
nothing wrong with it. I know there's filmmakers who shy
away from it, but to me, if using somebody else's music,
what's the difference. It's somebody else's material. But like I said,

(26:26):
as long as it supports your story and it makes sense,
and you know you're not using it every every two
minutes or so, h nothing wrong with it. So I
made use of that. So I understood all these things.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (26:39):
As I was writing the you know, the script and
the way I structured the story, I also structured it
purposely that way because, like I said, I wanted more actors,
and there's there's quite a few actors in this one,
but I don't have the budget to pay them, you know.
But I figured, well, if I if I only use

(27:00):
actors for one to maybe three days at the most,
I think that can work, right, So I structure the
script that way, where you know, that's what I ended
up happening, because at the end of the day, you know,
you have to you have to understand that, you know,
you can't abuse other people, you know what I mean.
I mean, yes, this is my dream, this is my

(27:22):
passion and all that, but that's mine.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
It's not others. You know.

Speaker 6 (27:25):
For other people, that's just a job, a gig, and
when they're not getting paid, well, you got to be
sensitive to that, right. So, and yeah, it's probably the
actor in me as well. I've I've been on enough
in these shoots where you know, you start to feel
like you're being taken for granted in this one, you know,
so I you know, I was thinking about all these

(27:46):
things as I was, like I said, constructing the story,
which is important.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
It's it's crucial because at the end of the.

Speaker 6 (27:53):
Day, I'd rather do a you know, a smaller project,
but do it right, then try to attempt this epic
thing where at the end of the day, you know,
I burn out and I don't even finish it the
way I want. I owe money to gazillions of people
and everyone hates me.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
You know what I mean. This way, I'm good, you know,
and you.

Speaker 5 (28:15):
Know that that's I made a mistake like that when
I first started. You know, I I tried to make
something way too epic for like my second or third movie.
This movie will never see a light No, it was
my third movie. That's right, because my second and third
short films will never ever see the light of day.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
But the third one somebody actually has on a DV day.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
And if I ever even got a monocule of success,
I know somebody would be like, hey, look.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
At this, this is Dave Willis's thing.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
But basically, there was a lot of gunplay and I
had this is when video copilot.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
I actually have that DVD as well.

Speaker 5 (28:54):
I actually got got the DVD for I think Christmas,
or maybe I bought it myself.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
And what happened was I.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
Was all all set to do all I did, all
the choreography worked out well, one by one I had
my crew drop out. So now I'm doing like, not
only three roles and four roles, now I'm doing like
six or seven roles. So now it's down to me,
my cinematographer, because this is the whole new team.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
I've ever worked with these guys before.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
And as the day went on, I just had more
and more problems kept creeping up that you know, I
could have worked out had I had more people to
fight these fires. For me, why I fight these fires
because now it's like, you know, I'm going around trying
to fix this and do that, and then you know
the place was supposed to be vacant, and then here,

(29:40):
guess what happens?

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Here comes security. Who are you guys?

Speaker 5 (29:42):
You're not supposed to be here, And I'm like, yes,
we are. I have been over this for months talking
to your guys. I mean, it just it was a
complete disaster. But the point I'm trying to make is
if I had just done something even a slightly slightly
step backwards on a slightly smaller scale.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

Speaker 5 (30:11):
I would have had a much better time. I would
have had a much better finished product, and we probably
would have gotten shot, probably got would have gotten everything
shot that day, rather than you know, having like pieces
of it, you know, put together somewhere, and you know,
eventually I put together what was like a rough cut
of a couple of days, and it was like you
couldn't show this anywhere. It was unbearable to watch. Just

(30:34):
everything that could went wrong did go wrong. My second
and third student films that everything that could go wrong
went wrong. It was unbelievable. You know, we're just talking about,
you know, making things that are epic. So there's advice
to pull from this from anybody listening. Do not try
to make like Godzilla or Lord of the Rings or

(30:55):
Inglorious Bastards your first time.

Speaker 3 (30:57):
You will fail horribly.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
Yep. Well, I absolutely agree.

Speaker 6 (31:02):
You know, I've done a fair share of mistakes on
you know, like short films and all.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
That, but I definitely.

Speaker 6 (31:10):
You know, there's a lot of anxiety and fear on
my first film, and that's why, you know, that's why
that one, like, like I mentioned earlier, it's a comedy
mostly set in one location. You know, it's two roommates
and it's in their apartment, and you know, stuff starts
to go wrong and that kind of you know, those

(31:31):
kinds of scenarios. And you know, we shot that one
in eight days on weekends, and you know that really
that was a great sort of playground, learning ground for
me to see. Okay, first of all, can I do?
That was eighty three minutes? Which is this one is

(31:52):
also eighty minutes, so you know it's the same length.
So that was a good opportunity for me to see, Okay,
can I Can I actually make a feature? You know
eighty minute thing?

Speaker 4 (32:00):
Can I?

Speaker 6 (32:01):
Because you know a lot of filmmakers talk about that,
but they've.

Speaker 4 (32:05):
Actually never done it. Yeah, I know.

Speaker 6 (32:07):
I didn't know what does it actually entail to make
such a such a longer piece. You know, at that
point my longest short was probably twelve fifteen minutes maybe,
you know, so you know, but there was a certain
safe environment because, like I said, mostly shot in one location.
It had four main actors and then there was few others,

(32:29):
but it was mostly those four guys, right, And you know,
I was very happy when when it was all done
and with you know, the end result, and it.

Speaker 4 (32:40):
It boosted my my.

Speaker 6 (32:45):
What's the word, man, my my not my ego, but
my confidence confidence.

Speaker 4 (32:50):
Thank you, jeez, I can talk.

Speaker 6 (32:53):
Oh yes, So it definitely boosted my confidence, and you know,
made me realize that, Okay, I think I'm ready to
do something bigger. But that's a crucial moment right there,
when it could have fallen apart easily if I had gone,
you know, just as slightly bigger than what I ended
up doing. You know, it's a tricky thing, and I've

(33:19):
obviously I have many filmmaking friends, as we all do,
and actor friends and all that, and you know, some
of them have never made a feature, some of them
are still working on it, and some are recovering from.

Speaker 4 (33:32):
It, you know, as we all are.

Speaker 6 (33:36):
And you know, it's always good to just be cognizant
of Okay, you should always have your own style, absolutely,
But you know, if you know people would have done it,
talk to them.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
You know.

Speaker 6 (33:47):
I love to talk to you know, guys like you,
other filmmakers and just kind of bounce ideas off. You know, Okay,
this is what worked for me. I don't know if
it's going to work for you. But this is what
worked for me, you know. And you know, once you
start doing that, once you start understanding this whole process,
it definitely helps you.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
At least it helped me, you know.

Speaker 6 (34:09):
So hopefully when the next one, you know, when it's
time for the next one, I'll you know, it'll be bigger.
But like I said, I don't want to go overboard
where that one's pretty much gonna bury me.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
You know.

Speaker 5 (34:22):
Yeah, it's somebody once told me before when I'm starting out,
They said, Dave, never listened to anybody in this business
who teaches you how to make a film who's never
actually made a film. Never listen to anybody who's about
how to write a script if they've never written a script.
He said, you know, this is all so hands on
that you can't just keep you know, there's.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
A lot of theory and all of this.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
There's a lot of theory, like, hey, I could you know,
make it this way or that way? What you really
need is the is that meat and potato, so to speak.
And I actually wrote a book. It didn't get published.
It's actually on a hard drive. I took everybody on
this journey day by day, and I actually took a
snapshot of my bank account, well the production's bank account,

(35:07):
everything from Czech stubs, receipts, my own writings of how
I dealt with problems with crew cast locations, and every day,
at the end of every day or at the beginning
of every day, I would write something. At the end
of every day, I would write something so like day
one at the beginning, and this is what happened, this
is what we're playing on doing. And then I at
the end of the day, I would come back and

(35:28):
write this, and I would give you snapshots.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
I compiled it all together.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Into a book with this TV pilot, and I actually
pitched it and a lot of places were like, you know,
this is a lot, and I said, well, it's just detailing.
You know, how did I come up with a thousand
dollars very quickly? How did I get this money? How
did I when PayPal shut down our crowd funding campaign
because they had no clue what it was they How
did I come back from that? It's that's the stuff

(35:54):
that you know you have to talk about. And then
there's also like I actually have my own private it
checklist of what I do now, like I'm gonna start
a crowdfunding campaign next year. I know exactly what I'm
going to do differently than I when I did years ago,
and even when I've done last year, when I was
helping out other friends, you know, sometimes I would they would,
you know, send me their link or whatever, and I'd say, okay,

(36:15):
just do this and this, and you know, I you know,
don't worry about credit. It's just you know, when the
time comes to you know, retweet my stuff or help
me out any way you can. But but yeah, you know,
it's it's just about those relationships and actually cultivating it
and you know, not being you know, just not being
a jerk to people.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
I guess right, well, absolutely, no, absolutely. I mean, first
of all, that sounds like an amazing book.

Speaker 6 (36:38):
Man, you know I want to read that, you know, No,
but absolutely, that's that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
You know, going back to your your.

Speaker 6 (36:48):
Your comment about listening people who have never actually made
a film, I one hundred percent agree. And we all
have listened to these individuals. We have these amazing and
at the end of the day, look, if you haven't
done it yourself, or or if you unless you are
talking about what someone else said, it's a theory. You know,

(37:10):
I I only talk about things that I've actually done,
you know, because at the end of the day, I
don't know, and I don't want to be the guy
who gives you some BS, you know, information, because I
wouldn't want to be the one receiving BS information either,
you know what I mean. So no, absolutely, it's it's

(37:32):
it's a tricky thing because you know, obviously everyone has
an opinion, and you know, the one thing I always
like to do, you know, whenever I meet you know,
let's say, filmmakers, and you know, we start talking about everything,
and you know, after I've met them, I look them
up online just to see, Okay, has this person actually

(37:54):
done something, because you know, you know, if they have
given me so many information all that, I want to
see where that actually comes from. And you know, in
some cases, you know, you're positively surprised, go, holy crab,
well they've done amazingly.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
I want to talk more to this person.

Speaker 6 (38:09):
And you know, there's there's situations where you go, I
see nothing here.

Speaker 4 (38:14):
I see absolutely nothing. So at that point you kind
of go, I don't know, man, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (38:22):
And you know, it's the same thing I you know,
I have my YouTube channel where I have a show
called Filmmaking Today, where I talk about it's all different things.
Gear I use techniques I use for my film and
my projects. And I always, you know, from the beginning,
I told myself, I will only talk about things that

(38:43):
I'm actually doing, you know, because again, there's so many
videos about you know, all kinds of things coming from
people who have actually never done it. I kind of
have an issue with. As an actor, I also have
an issue with, you know, acting coaches, because you know,

(39:04):
you gotta be careful with that.

Speaker 4 (39:05):
You know, you take you take a workshop with person.

Speaker 6 (39:08):
X, and uh, you know, you look them up and
you see they had they have actually less gigs than you.
You know, Okay, I I technically I'm more qualified to
teach you this.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
Of course, you know what I mean. So this is
not not a good idea. So yeah, I agree to
to you know, put it in one sentence.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
It's funny you mentioning acting coaches. Uh.

Speaker 5 (39:33):
There was actually an acting coach on my Facebook. He
he deleted me just recently.

Speaker 6 (39:37):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (39:38):
He was always inviting me to all those events in
New York and stuff like that, and uh, you know,
I actually one day watched one of his uh, I
don't want it's not a real it's like a promo
for his classes, and he acted like he was like
the best actor who's ever existed. So I looked him
up and he was in virtually nothing.

Speaker 2 (40:00):

Speaker 5 (40:09):
And I'm like, how the hell is this guy running
acting classes who has done absolutely positively nothing. And that's
why when he deleted me, I'm like, I.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Don't I didn't even worry about it.

Speaker 5 (40:20):
I was like, oh, well, because I have an app
on my Facebook that tells when anybody deletes me, and yeah,
so I actually I was like, you know, I don't
even care anymore. So I took that app off because like,
you know, why even bother right, I'm barely on Facebook
anymore anyway, so as as most people can tell, I'm
just like going there and this and that. But now
I'm sorry, now I'm getting off topic. But yeah, now

(40:41):
I'm talking about face fucking But yeah, no, you know,
you're absolutely right. It's like Alex Ferrari. He just had
a post on his indie film Hustle dot com blog
where he said, don't hire somebody just because they have
a very good looking camera.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
That is a mistake that I made one time.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
And the guy, the guy was talented, but he was
also in inane and by the end we were fighting
back and forth. He was fighting with everybody, and you know,
everyone kind of gave me the eye, like you hired
this guy, and I said, you know, I was like, guys,
I'm sorry, I try to fire him. The producer wants
to keep him because he's got you know, the red

(41:17):
camera and he's got this. But it was a complete,
you know, disaster and final and I afterwards, like I
was so burned out of the project.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I didn't want to talk about it anymore.

Speaker 5 (41:27):
I was just you know, I told the producers, you know,
that guy completely sapped all the energy.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
Because I mean, you you know, Boujon.

Speaker 5 (41:34):
You know, when you go into a film set, anybody,
and it's whether it's you, Me, Quentin Tarantino, Rober Roriez,
we all have a finite amount of energy and patience
and everything else. You know, we all have at the
beginning of the day, we have you know that those levels,
you know, and as you go on, you know, going
through everything, you know, it gets whittled down. Certain things

(41:55):
get ticket out more than others, you know, but by
the end of the day, you know, you're pretty much
on empty, you know, physically and mentally and sometimes spiritually.
And you know that's when you're you finally realize, you know, wow,
it does take.

Speaker 3 (42:09):
A village to raise a child. Sometimes it does take
a whole army to make a film. This is why.

Speaker 6 (42:14):
Oh absolutely, and I mean I don't think most people
realize absolutely how exhausting this process is, especially in the
film in the indie film world, where you know, everything smaller,
the budgets are smaller, you know, everything. And absolutely, I
I have had my fair share of, you know, situations

(42:38):
where you know, whether it was dealing I have. I've
been blessed to work with great casts, but you know,
there are certain situations where they might not understand that, look,
it's not it's not just about.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
You, you know.

Speaker 6 (42:52):
I mean again, I'm an actor and when I'm once
said I I understand that there are so many things
happening at once, so many stars have to line up,
you know, line up to make this one shot, and
you know, we all have to suck it up essentially,
you know, and.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
You know, it's difficult. It absolutely is difficult.

Speaker 6 (43:15):
I mean on you know, on this this set, it
was you know, a typical date would pretty much consist
of me. I would have my audio guy, I would
have you know, my my makeup and prosthetics person, and
then if I'm lucky, one more person, right sort of

(43:36):
to help out a little bit of everything, and you know,
that's it, you know, and then the actors obviously, however
many there were, so you know, we're not talking, like
I said, twenty thirty people on set, because I'm a
strong believer that the more people you have on set
as crew members, it all slows you down. And a
you know, it's not about having a lot of people,
it's about having the right amount of people, you know.

(43:58):
And yeah, sometimes I might go overboard and you know,
maybe not having enough, but that's what allows me to
shoot seven to ten pages a day, which is what
I average. We shut this film in ten days, and
you know, it's it's it's an exhausting process at the
end of the day. I mean, I'm the first one
on set, I'm the last one.

Speaker 4 (44:18):
To leave, you know.

Speaker 6 (44:19):
I there have been plenty of days where I wouldn't
even eat anything. Not because I don't want to eat.
It's because of you know, when when it's lunchtime, I'm
going through my shot list and I'm going, Okay, we
got to get this down, we got to do this.
I talk to my sound guy, you know, my whoever
it is, my prosthetics person, you know, and.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
That kind of stuff. So it's very exhausting.

Speaker 6 (44:39):
But you know, I do believe that you have to
have a certain amount of insanity as a filmmaker to
attempt anything in this world, because I think any sane
person would go, I I'm good man, I'll stick to
my nine to five, you know. So I am blessed
with a certain insanity which which keeps me going, you know.

Speaker 5 (45:03):
And you need that, you need that little bit of
insanity that when you say at the end of at
the end of some of these projects, you'll say never again,
never again?

Speaker 3 (45:12):
Am I going to do this? I don't care what
comes along, And six months later, you know, at most,
you're like, damn, I should go make a movie. You
know what the hell is going on here?

Speaker 5 (45:21):
Because you know, I mean, like you know, my quick
you know little story. Uh, it's been about four years
since I actually made anything of mice my own. I
mean that's not that say I haven't been on other
people's sets or done this or done that. I'm just
talking about my own stuff. It's the last thing that
produced was about four years ago. And uh, I there's
an interesting story about why it's been four years, but uh,

(45:43):
it's just to be put make a long story short.
It's it's crazy people. I I we had a crazy editor.
And I finally looked at the guy that was the
director and because I recommended this guy, because all of
a sudden, he just kind of went berserk. And uh,
I'll tell the story another podcast, but basically, I was like,
I apologize. I'm gonna work to figure the you know,

(46:05):
to to solve this stuff. And that's uh that to
that point where I was like, I must be insane
to to to keep wanting to come back and be
a glutt um for punishment with this stuff. You know,
it's like my God, and you know, and uh, you know,
speaking of you know, of editing, actually, one of the
questions I want to ask you too, Bullion, was you
know what did you use to uh to edit Project Eugenics.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (46:24):
Yeah, I used Premiere Pro for editing.

Speaker 6 (46:28):
I I'm a I'm an Adobe nerd, right, so I
use most of most of their products. So yeah, for editing,
it was a Premiere Pro. I used to use Final
Cut seven a while while ago, and on my my
my last movie, my first movie, I actually was one
of those people who switched to Final Cut ten and

(46:48):
I actually edited most of the movie in there and
it it did.

Speaker 4 (46:52):
Not work out.

Speaker 6 (46:52):
It just just my personal opinion, it's not what seven
used to be. So I I went back to because
before we're somewhere in between that I can't remember I
was using Premiere and so I went back to Premiere,
which I use exclusively now for you know, my editing,
and because I love the integration with Premiere Pro and

(47:13):
after effects, you know, just being able to send the
sequence into after effects to do, you know, whatever I
need to do, and then you know, keep working in it.

Speaker 5 (47:24):
So yeah, yeah, I use all the Adobe products as well.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
You can't beat that because.

Speaker 5 (47:29):
All you do is literally you click a button and
I edit this podcast and audition and if I you know,
when I'm in Premiere, I can click a button and
just say send audio to audition, and I can work
on all the audio problems. I can take up pomps
and clicks and stuff. I mean, it's just it's amazingly easier.
You actually couldn't get any easier, because I mean maybe
you could, but I mean it's just it's phenomenal the

(47:51):
way it works together.

Speaker 6 (47:52):
Oh absolutely, I mean, I you know, I I also
do graphic and web design related things, so you know,
I obviously use four Shop and Illustrator for for all that.
And you know, in my opinion, I know a lot
of people hated when Adobe switched over to their Creative
Cloud subscription based model, and I actually love it. I
think I think it's it's it's a great model. You know,

(48:17):
I'm constant, We're all constantly getting updates and they're great.
I mean, you know, just recently I discovered their mobile apps,
so you can actually create a lot, you know, a
color lookup table using your phone. You just take a
photo of whatever, I would say, a sunset, and it
will create those colors and you can apply that to.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Your video footage.

Speaker 6 (48:39):
And it's amazing, you know, just the integration, which goes
back to what I you know, what I said earlier, earlier,
the advancements in in this field, I mean technology in general,
but especially this field are so incredible. I mean, there's
really no excuse not to make a film, you know,
whatever type of film it is matter. You know, yes,

(49:03):
twenty thirty years ago, it was you know, ten times
more difficult, and you know you needed to ask for permission,
right like like Jason always talks about asking for permission. No,
we're done with that. I'm not going to ask anyone
for permission.

Speaker 4 (49:17):
You know.

Speaker 6 (49:18):
I'm you know, able to make my films the way
they are. And obviously I want to grow the budgets
and all that. I don't want to keep making five
thousand dollars movies. But I'm not asking anyone for permission,
you know. And that's extremely empowering and it really allows
you to tell your story. You know, whether people like

(49:38):
the movie or not, I have no impact on that.
But this is my story. This is it's truly a
director's cut. There's no you know, no one interfering.

Speaker 5 (49:48):
You know, you know that that's That's what you know
a lot of filmmakers are doing now is they don't
want you know, they don't have to ask for permission.
They don't have to you know, wait for someone's notes
to come in after seeing the dailies anymore.

Speaker 2 (50:01):

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (50:10):
You know, it's they can go out and they can
they they're the ones calling the shots. For instance, like
m Night Shyamalan, that's what he does now because you know,
after he made After Earth, he said, I don't want
to do this whole studio system anymore.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
So we went out made the visit.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
And it was a lot more successful for him, both
financially and you know, as an artist because now he
didn't have anybody telling him.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
You know, what to do, because he could do it himself.
You know.

Speaker 5 (50:36):
He he made all his own calls. There was no notes,
no one looking over his shoulder, and that's you know,
that's when value as a filmmaker. Robert Riguez also was
talking about that recently when he said, you know, I'd
rather have less money and more freedom than you know,
more money and I have to answer to ten thousand people.
He said, you know, it's I'd easily rather have the

(50:56):
less money.

Speaker 4 (50:57):
Oh.

Speaker 6 (50:57):
Absolutely, I mean, I'm right on board with with that statement.
I mean, I you know, I mean, my one of
my goals is to show people you know that, Okay,
this is what I can do for five thousand dollars.
And by the way, that's five thousand Canadian dollars, which
in US is like two bucks. Nowadays our dollar is
worth nothing apparently.

Speaker 4 (51:17):
But anyway, so that's, you know, that is my goal.

Speaker 6 (51:19):
And I actually I have absolutely no desire to make
like one hundred or one hundred and fifty million dollar
blockbuster movie. I really don't because, knowing myself how passionate
I get about these things, I probably get fired for
taking a fight with with the wrong executive and all
that stuff, and I you know, so those stories don't

(51:43):
interest me because I think for you know, for one million.
I mean, you know, you look, especially in the horror field.
Another one of my favorite directors is James Wong. You know,
he made the first Saw movie and the Insidious movies
and all that, and I mean, you look at just
those movies, all of them, all the Insidious movies. I

(52:04):
think the first one had a budget of eight hundred thousand,
I think somewhere around there. And then you know, the
budgets grew slowly, but they're still in a couple of
a few million dollar range. And you look at those movies,
and man, they're amazing. I mean the horror fan in me,
you know, if you're into horror, I love it. And
from a production point of view, I think it's done

(52:26):
very well, you know, So you know, I think you know,
I mean, Spielberg talked about you know this, and Lucas
too about you know, the implosion of Hollywood, which my
opinion is, I think something will happen in the next
you know, a little bit.

Speaker 4 (52:45):
The way I kind of see it.

Speaker 6 (52:46):
You know, if you look at the history of Hollywood,
you know, back in the late sixties when when the
studio system fell apart, right and you had corporations buying
all the studios and making the movies, and you know,
that was sort of the first the first or the
second wave technically, you know, the first wave was the

(53:07):
one that started, and you had the second wave with
the corporations, and I kind of look at this as
the third wave, which is us indie guys, call it
the YouTubers, whatever you want to call It doesn't matter
who are able. And I'm not talking about myself here,
I'm talking about in general. There's certainly plenty of other
directors who are able to do much more than I
am with small budgets, and you know, you look at

(53:29):
the stuff that they're doing for virtually nothing, you know,
and yes, most people don't get paid on those sets.
But you know what I have there are indie projects
that cost one hundred, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars
and people still don't get paid, you know. And then
you look at movies where you know, like five thousand

(53:50):
or ten thousand. Well, you know, I think if you
make a movie for ten thousand, just give the person
out of ten thousand, then everyone would get paid, you
know what I mean, But it would still be a
great product. Whereas you start wondering, okay, the you know,
millions and millions of dollar budgets, what happened?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Man?

Speaker 6 (54:09):
You know, where's the quality? Where you know, did everything
go towards the catering budgets?

Speaker 4 (54:16):
You know what I mean? It was like, you know,
you start to wonder.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
And.

Speaker 6 (54:20):
Yeah, so I firmly believe that we are part of
the next wave, so to speak, because at the end
of the day, you know, you can't keep having budgets
in the two hundred million dollar range. I mean, you know,
you look at you know, the recent terminator movie. I mean,
if it wasn't for China and the money they made
their the movie obviously flopped.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
Let's let's not kid ourselves.

Speaker 6 (54:44):
You can say whatever you want in North America the
movie flopped, but it didn't have to.

Speaker 4 (54:51):
It could have been something.

Speaker 6 (54:53):
You know, I was praying it would be something as
I was watching it. So yeah, I think there's a
lot of change coming our way, and you know, I
think in the end it will be positive change if
we just stick to our guns and you know, say,
you know, look, we can tell these stories. And you

(55:14):
know I'm not you know, if a producer comes to
me and says, listen, we have a couple of million
we want you to direct this movie, you know, I'm
not going.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
To be like, nah, now I'm an indie guy. Now, no,
I'm going to take the money. I'm going to make
a movie. But absolutely, you know, you're not stupid.

Speaker 6 (55:30):
But at the at the same time, if you came
to me, you obviously trust that I can bring something
to it. So let me tell my story, you know,
And that's easier to tell. It's easier to have the
conversation with someone when you're talking about a two million
dollar production versus a two hundred million you know, so yes,
it's you know, I think a lot is going to happen,

(55:55):
and some of it is already you know.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
Yeah, you know, I wonder as I was talking podcast
interview with Brad Wilk, you know a lot of this
I think, is it's so accessible now and we always
talk about who is going to rise to the top.
Is it just so overcrowded that it takes a rare
instance of you know, the perfect storm.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Of a network of money of this and that to
rise to the top.

Speaker 5 (56:19):
Or is it just still the old fashioned way where
everything's still just gonna rise to the top based upon quality,
meaning like you know, the Reservoir Dogs is still gonna
rise to the top those types of movies. I actually
feel both are true. Personally. I think that you know,
even with you know, the influx of you know, filmmakers
now just in the past year or two, I really
do think that you know, you're gonna see the quality

(56:42):
projects are always gonna go to the top. You're gonna
be cause you know, you always trust your friends most
of all. So if your friend tells you, hey, listen,
go watch you know, whatever movie. Most of the time
you're gonna listen to them. You're gonna say, hey, okay,
I'll sit down, I'll carve out the time. But you know,
I think with the you know, with a lot of
these superhero movies, I think that that's gonna cause a
lot of burnout. But then again, I said that like

(57:02):
two years ago, and then there's still you know, cheerning
them out, and there's still number one at the box office,
and now Star Wars is coming out, and that's, let's
face it, that's the unstoppable force right now. I don't
I don't eve think Star Wars is a movie anymore.
I think it's like a I don't even know what.
It's almost like a need now. It's almost like on
the Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's like Star Wars and

(57:25):
then food and shelter and feelings of safety. I mean,
it is just a phenom. I mean, and I see
all these spinoffs and I'm like, you know what, they
could have one hundred spinoffs. They could have movies come
out until everybody right now is passed and our great
great grandchildrens to watch them. And you know what, I
don't think it's ever gonna stop. If they could just

(57:47):
keep finding a new character to expand on. Like hey
see that guy in the cantina, Well, that's you know,
Regulan six, and he's gonna, you know, do something now.
And it's all just you know, it's it's just all
the continuation of this universe.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
Hey man, don't underestimate. Don't underestimate Revulon six. Man, that
guy's gotta going you know. Oh absolutely, Look, you know,
I mean it's.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
Human nature to yearn for entertainment. I mean this has
been true way before there have been movies and television
and all that. I mean, you know, we want.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
To be entertained, you know, so that will always be there.

Speaker 6 (58:26):
But I do believe I agree with you in the sense,
you know, the way I see it, I don't want
the big blockbusters to go away, you know, because you know,
if you want to tell a an epic story, like
a Star Wars type of story, you know, there are
certain budgets needed. That's what I'm saying. You can't make
everything for you know, low budget. But I don't think

(58:49):
that every movie needs to be that. You know, the problem,
in my opinion, the problem is that, I mean, good god,
we have comedies now that cost sixty seventy million to make. Dude,
it's a comedy. As long as you make people laugh,
you're fine, you know, you know why, Why is my question? So,

(59:09):
you know, I think it just I just think it
needs to you know, balance itself out sort of where
you know, we still you know, I still want to
see the big blockbusters coming out, you know whatever, a
few of them a year and all that, but that
should be a small segment. The rest of it, you know,
should be you know, reasonable budgets. And at the end

(59:32):
of the day, it all goes back to story. I
actually I don't go to the theater as much as
I used to because, frankly, when I look at you know,
I look at some of the movies, I'm like, I
don't think it has a knowing like I said, knowing
how story h the story has suffered in a lot

(59:53):
of movies. I just go, you know what, I don't
trust that this is going to be a good story.
So I just don't go, and I wait until it's
on Flake saying, you know, then I give it a shot,
and you know, sometimes it's good, sometimes it isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):

Speaker 6 (01:00:15):
So if you make if you really focus on the
story and you and and the crucial part which I
don't know why execs seem to have a problem with that.
If you hire a director because you think he or
she is good, let them do their job, man, you know,
let them do their job. If they're not good, then
don't hire them in the first place. So, you know,

(01:00:37):
I think all that. You know, like I said, the
story needs to the story needs to be number one.
You know, we're now at the time where we don't
get wowed anymore by by technology, by by CG and
all that. And you know, I saw the new I'm
sure you have to the new Batman versus Superman or
Superman versus Batman, you know, whatever the order is, uh trailer.

(01:01:01):
And you know, I'm more interested in the story, in
in in the conflict between them, not so much about
the CG.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
Because I know the CG will be fine.

Speaker 6 (01:01:10):
You don't have to pimp in. You know, it's twenty fifteen.
We're able to do some amazing stuff with CG. So
tell me more about the story, you know, That's what
I'm curious. And I think a lot of studios make
the mistake where they show you all the CG, all
the explosions, blah blah blah, and you know, no offense.
It starts to look like a Michael Bay movie, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
I mean, you know, so yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:01:35):
Like I said, it's a yeah, I agree, I absolutely agree.
I think on one hand, it won't go away. But
on the other hand, I I do think certain things
will change, you know what I mean, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:01:50):
I concur I think certain things will change because you know,
I mean we always talk about, you know, theatrical releases too,
and you know, there was always that discussion of you know,
if you know, independent films should try to go get
a theatrical release.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Now you actually had.

Speaker 5 (01:02:05):
A theatrical a theatrical screening, and I don't know was
that for one night or was that for a couple
of nights or.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Yeah it was it was one night.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Yeah, Okay. Now, I mean, now do you feel because
you do this for one night?

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
Then so did you feel that that may have helped
you or.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Do you feel that maybe next time you wouldn't do
that again?

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
Uh that's a good question. I I do feel uh.

Speaker 6 (01:02:32):
I mean, I'm happy with the turnout because we had
it on a Tuesday evening, rainy Tuesday in Vancouver, and
you know, I was able to get people out. So
that's an accomplishment considering I'm a I'm a nobody, no
name filmmaker.

Speaker 4 (01:02:47):
Now for the next one, I don't think.

Speaker 6 (01:02:51):
I don't think it has to happen. No, I don't
think a theatrical release is crucial. I honestly, I don't
know if I'm going to do it for the next
one or not. For this one, I really wanted to
do it because I felt that I had a certain
momentum going, you know, and I felt that, okay, this,
this could help, so let's just do it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
And uh, you know, like I said, I'm happy with
the turnout and all that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:19):
But I think we're now at the time where, you know,
including myself, like I said earlier, I don't really you know.
For example, you know, my wife and I bought tickets
for Star Wars obviously like a month ago. I would
actually if I could stream that sucker in my living
room or my nice big screen TV, you know, in

(01:03:40):
two weeks whenever it comes out, I'd be gladly. I'd
be happy to do that, you know, I I you know,
I don't care about seeing it in the theater because,
like I said, if I could stream it here in
the comfort of my own home and have a good
time and you know, popcorn and all that, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Cool with that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:57):
So I think, you know, people's mindset has changed a
lot when it comes to that. I, in my opinion,
your movie should be available wherever it can be available,
you know, sort of like the Netflix model, because how
people watch your stuff has changed drastically.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:04:18):
I have a fifteen year old cousin and I always
like to use them as a as a guinea pig.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
And you know, I asked him in a couple of
his buddies, you know. Okay, so I was curious, do
you guys care about cable?

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
You know?

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
And they're like, no, you know, we care about the
shows we watch. Okay, cool, So the shows you watch?
Do you care about watching it on a TV or
how do you watch it? I'm like, I don't know,
I watched it, however, I however, I want on my
phone on my tab blah blah blah. So you know,
there's no you know, I think with our generation and

(01:04:53):
certainly with the old generation, you know, the prime sort
of experience of watching a movie is obviously the theater.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
And then you know at home home.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
Now with these guys, nah, the only thing they do
care about doing on the big screen is gaming, and
you know that's that, you know, day one on the
big screen. But other than that, you know, they're okay
with watching a movie on the or show on their phone.
So yeah, going back to your question, I think it
has helped and I'm happy we did it. I'm not

(01:05:23):
sure if I'm going to do the next one, honestly,
I'll be cause you know, it might be two three
years by the time we make the next one, and
who knows how much will change, you know, how the
landscape will change by then.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
You know, hard to say, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
That's true. And by the way, I actually looked it up.

Speaker 5 (01:05:40):
As of this recording the seventh, the seventh, five thousand
Canadian dollars equals thirty seven hundred and fifty five cents.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
US dollars, So there you go. There, there's that. I
wanted to look that up.

Speaker 5 (01:05:53):
So so now we we have a thirteen hundred dollars surplus.
Now that's from filming. But so you know, you ended
up putting the movie on on VHX and it's available now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
You you know, you actually have a.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
Ton of extra footage on their extra sorry bonuses on there.
You have you know, you have an audio commentary, you
have a behind the scenes look, you have this special
effects utorial that you did.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
You have your screenplay on there too. You know.

Speaker 5 (01:06:19):
Is there a reason, you know, why you chose v
VHX over maybe putting it on YouTube or any or
you know, even trying to get it on Netflix.

Speaker 6 (01:06:27):
Yeah, well I haven't ruled out Netflix yet. So but
the reason I went with vh X. I use them
for my first movie as well. And I just liked
how because there's still relatively you know, a relatively new company,
and I like how they're constantly improving their service. You know,

(01:06:48):
I don't get paid to do say any of this,
you know, just my opinion, but I do like that
every once in a while they're like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
Hey, you can have this feature. Now you have this feature.

Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
So they seem to understand that the landscape is changing rapidly,
so they're you know, keeping up. And I just love
the fact that, you know, I can upload all my
stuff whatever I want, I can set the price, you know,
I mean, they take their cut from each transaction. But
they don't dictate me, you know, how much I should

(01:07:17):
sell the movie for for example, iTunes. They do tell
they do have their set prices last time I checked, anyway,
could be wrong about that. So and you know, and
you have all the stats in terms of who downloaded
or purchased your movie, rented your movie, whatever it is.
So that was really the main reason.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
Just control. You know, at the end of the day.

Speaker 6 (01:07:40):
You know, I you know, you get used as an
indie guy. You do get used to a certain amount
of control you have over your project, right and you know,
you spend so much time and energy, you know, making it,
and you know it would really suck that when it
comes to distribution, Know, that gets taken away from you,

(01:08:01):
you know, which is usually what does happen.

Speaker 3 (01:08:04):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (01:08:04):
So that was the reason why I like the company
like VHX. Now having that said, you know, I, like
I said earlier, I wanted to be available everywhere, you know,
And you know that's like I said, in my opinion,
how we view and consume entertainment has changed drastically.

Speaker 4 (01:08:26):
You know, I don't have cable.

Speaker 6 (01:08:29):
Because I I you know, the entertainment I watch is
accessible via YouTube, via Netflix, you know, whatever service it is.

Speaker 4 (01:08:39):
And that's good enough for me, man, you know. So, yeah,
that was that was the main reason.

Speaker 6 (01:08:46):
And yeah, going back to the uh, the special features, Yeah,
I I always.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
Most of my film education also comes from.

Speaker 6 (01:08:56):
Making off features on DVDs and blue rays, right, So
you know, when we moved to Canada in two thousand
and one, and you know, we that's when I started
watching blue rays because they weren't available in Europe. And
when I saw, holy crap, there's an audio commentary. Dude,
I cannot watch the movie and the director is talking
about what I'm watching, you know, how he did it

(01:09:18):
and all that stuff, and it was it was, you know,
I was like, oh my god moment. So you know,
like I said, most of my education comes from that,
and I always feel I want to.

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
Do the same.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:09:31):
It's I guess it's a it's a way of you know,
giving back if you want to call it that, you know,
because I feel I feel the more there are indie filmmakers,
you know, the better it is for everyone, because all
of us will collectively sort of raise this industry to
a level where you know, we can actually make money

(01:09:53):
doing this. You know, it's not just Okay, let's put
my own money into this, and you know you're never
going to see anything from it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):

Speaker 4 (01:10:10):
So yeah, that's the reason.

Speaker 5 (01:10:15):
Yeah, And you know, Doug Jason Brubaker was saying, you know,
some of these distribution deals are just completely inane, you know,
and nobody in the right mind would would go for him.
I actually knew somebody who they actually made. I probably
put about ten thousand inno their movie, and they were

(01:10:37):
trying to distribute it. And when the time came, they
only had one company that was willing to pay them,
and they were going to pay him something ridiculous, like
I think it was like one thousand bucks or six
hundred bucks, and they would have the rights for the
movie for five years to show the movie in like
some foreign country, and I think it was like I
think may even Cambodi or something, and filmmakers like, what

(01:11:00):
the hell kind of distribution deal is this like? And
they got fullwaice of the movie too, so for those
five years he couldn't sell it to anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
It was all about.

Speaker 5 (01:11:08):
So it was really odd and I don't know what
they ended up doing with it, but you know, I
think this is the you know, the future too, where
we if we did have a theatrical run with a film,
I think it should. It probably will end up being
available the same day or maybe the day after on
maybe a VHX or maybe you know, YouTube or even

(01:11:30):
a digital download directly from that person's site. And you know, hey, listen,
it's ten bucks and or whatever the hell it might be,
and you can get the bare bones version. You can
get this version. Then you can you know what Draft
House Films does. Hey, look, you can get the film,
but then you also get a T shirt and or
if you want the next package, you get a poster
with it. In the next package, you get the vinyl

(01:11:51):
record with it. And you know, I think stuff like that,
you know, having those up selling packages and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
Are going to be the future as well.

Speaker 5 (01:11:58):
And you know, and I think it's just going to
be a begin about It's going to be again, excuse me,
about building that market, building that audience, making sure you
have a high quality project that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
You can actually do with the resources.

Speaker 5 (01:12:11):
You have, and you know, maybe not shooting too high
for the moon, and you know, crowdfunding and you know,
keep working that audience and you know, seeing what you
can come up with, and you know, and just you
know and building from there. You know, there's a there
was a really good article about you know, if you
do build an audience for a film, you know, what
do you do with that audience after the film is over?

Speaker 3 (01:12:33):
You just sort of.

Speaker 5 (01:12:33):
Say, hey, guys, uh, well it's been fun. It's been
a fun year, you know, us building this. So that's
one of the things too, I think has to change
is how people market films. I think Facebook fan pages, honestly,
starting a new one for every film you do. I
think it's gonna get a little like ludicrous after a
while because I know people who have like seven eight
different Facebook pages for different films they've done, and then

(01:12:56):
they have to then there's that audience, and then there's
this audience. But I think maybe if you had it
on one umbrella or maybe Facebook could change this. But
or me, if you had it just for your production company.
It's it's stuff like that that I think are really
gonna be key to making sure that everyone's sol seize
your stuff. And uh but then again, you know, the
email list is always going to be key. That email
list is critical because you know, and you know all

(01:13:18):
the social media stuff. We can talk about it for days,
but the fact is it's rented space and they can
change it without warning. They can change it, They can
do whatever they want, and they never have to tell
us about it. And they know almost an explanation because
after all, it's a free product, and you know, they,
you know, they're the ones putting on the money for it,
and we're just sort of renting that space out.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
Oh.

Speaker 6 (01:13:37):
Absolutely, absolutely, I mean going back to the whole having
multiple pages.

Speaker 4 (01:13:43):
Absolutely.

Speaker 6 (01:13:43):
I mean I, you know, I have my my mail list,
mailing list, and initially when I when I put that together,
I actually talk to someone about that and I a
person who had his own mailing list that I would
subscribed to, and I asked, and what should I do?

Speaker 4 (01:13:59):
Should I have one for this movie, for this blah blah?

Speaker 6 (01:14:02):
And he, to his credit, said no, no, dude, have one,
trust me. And so that's what I did my you know,
I treat my mailing list as a sort of like
a VIP.

Speaker 4 (01:14:13):
Area.

Speaker 6 (01:14:14):
You know, if you subscribe to it, you will always
be the first one to get, you know, clips for example,
if you go on the web website project to gen X,
you can watch the first three minutes and whatever its
forty seconds of.

Speaker 4 (01:14:27):
The movie for free.

Speaker 6 (01:14:28):
Right Well, that was available to my newsletter subscribers months ago,
right so they were able to see it. And then
you know, whenever I have coupon's discounts and all that stuff,
they are the first ones to you know, find out
about it and not just about this movie. Then you know,
whenever I have videos for my YouTube channel, they are

(01:14:49):
the first ones to get notified. So you know that
that's my way of building an audience and you know,
rewarding them. And to me, that's really how, you know,
how we're going to rise in this in this industry,
in this Indian industry, because at the end of the day,

(01:15:10):
it all comes back to the fan base.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:15:13):
You look a guy like Kevin Smith another good example,
you know, who really has sort of cut himself off
from Holly, like mainstream Hollywood in terms of filmmaking. Who
is you know, making more of his own stuff. Well
he's allowed, he's able to do that because he has
had almost twenty year career in Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (01:15:35):
Right.

Speaker 6 (01:15:36):
Well, I don't have that, you know, so I have
to I have to adapt a slightly different model, which
you know, hopefully it's not going to take me twenty
years to get there. But you know, you look at
you look at YouTube guys, which that's sort of the
model I'm adapting. You know, film right is a great
YouTube channel, uh where you know, you talk all about

(01:15:59):
film related and they have their fan base. And you know,
that's the approach I'm taking, which is, Okay, this is
the stuff I do. I talk about film related stuff,
whether it's gear, whether it's techniques, all that stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Subscribe to my newsletter.

Speaker 6 (01:16:14):
You know you'll you'll get a book as free, which
is I think it's called how to Make a Movie
in your Own Living Room, which talks about my first movie.

Speaker 4 (01:16:23):
And then you know you'll be the first one.

Speaker 6 (01:16:24):
To get all my info, oh my sorry, all my
promo stuff and and all that stuff. And you know,
it's it's working. I mean, it's it's it's definitely growing
and I'm happy with it. You know, it's certainly not
there where I want it to be at this point, but.

Speaker 4 (01:16:43):
You know it's growing.

Speaker 6 (01:16:45):
So that's that's the main thing, and that's how we
have to look at it. I know a lot of filmmakers.
You know, young filmmakers are generation who are still trying
to adopt the old model, you know, who aren't as
active online, who don't have their own fan base and
all that. And look, everyone, you know, there are people

(01:17:08):
every year who succeed with the old model. You know,
you write a script, you it gets noticed by the
right people, you get your funding. That's all great, but
that's a very small percentage, you know, And I don't
want to build, you know, put all my hopes and
efforts into something that ultimately, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:17:28):
Might never be seen by anyone, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:17:30):
And that's that's also why I have, you know, an
issue with film festivals these days, where you know, I
love film festivals. That's all great, but the reality is,
you know, ten years ago you might film festival X
may have received two hundred submissions. Now it's two million,
you know, or who knows, however, so yeah, it's a

(01:17:52):
lot more difficult to stand out. And I, you know,
I just think by building your own audience, by you know,
having people dedicated to you and what it is that
you were doing, will in the long run help you.
And there's a lot of examples of that where you know,
it works on YouTube and on online in general.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
Right, Yeah, it's very true.

Speaker 5 (01:18:17):
And you know, one of the other things that I've
noticed is is that once somebody gets a following on YouTube,
they tend to go right to Patreon and they start
a Patreon account to get some you know, to have
people actually you know, fund them, whether it be five, ten,
you know, fifteen dollars a month. I actually was researching
Patreon and some of them, some of those channels are

(01:18:38):
pulling down a pretty good amount of money per month.
I'm talking like thirteen, fifteen thousand per month. Now, I
don't know, this is what I always want to have a Patreon.
I don't know how that divvys up between the members
or if that's just all has to go towards art,
or if they're quitting their day jobs, and who the
hell knows, because I guess it's a case by case situation.
But you know, but I mean, you know, so there's

(01:19:02):
a lot of options now, which is a good thing.
You know, it's not a war of eye it's not
a war anymore to get your film made. It's a
war of eyeballs and ears. So you know, you just
have to sort of chug along and figure out how Again,
like we were saying when we started, you know, how,
how are you going to stand out? You know, how
are you going to stand out from the pack? And
you know, how are you going to make sure that
you know, people know who you're you know, as soon

(01:19:24):
as it people put your movie, and how are they
going to know it's your movie?

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
How are they going to know your style?

Speaker 5 (01:19:28):
And I think it's you know, I think that's a
challenge now, is finding a voice, because I know I
struggle to find my voice sometimes it's even in writing,
even you know, when it's just me with a memo
pad and a pen, cause I still to old school.
I try to disconnect from technology when I'm writing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:19:44):
I save the laptop and that and the other stuff
for later on. But for now, it's just you know,
a pen and a paper.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):

Speaker 4 (01:20:02):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:02):
But so you know.

Speaker 5 (01:20:05):
That that's you know, now I lost track now I'm
talking about pens of papers. But but no, I think
you know that's you know, there are these options out
there now, and you know, I think a lot of
filmmakers are trying to figure out, you know, how to
actually how to actually make it work for them.

Speaker 3 (01:20:21):
As what I'm trying to.

Speaker 6 (01:20:22):
Say, oh absolutely, and look, by no means have I
figured it out. I just want to say that I
have figured out a lot, like I said, how to
make a movie. But when it comes to distribution, that's
still you know, that's a beast on its own.

Speaker 4 (01:20:37):
And you know, on one.

Speaker 6 (01:20:40):
Hand, you just have to understand the things that are
changing constantly, you know, and the things we talk about
right now, you know, a month from now there might
be another service that comes out that just wol blows
it out of the water, right, So you have.

Speaker 4 (01:20:56):
To be open to change.

Speaker 6 (01:20:57):
You you can't be stuck in the old ways because
you know, and I understand, the traditional way of making
and distributing a movie has been there for what sixty years,
sixty plus years more than that, So I get it,
you know, it was it's that's that's a that's a
significant time, significant time in you know, in that industry.

(01:21:21):
But much like when the first digital cameras came out
ten ish years ago, you know, things have changed and
things are changing and you need to understand that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
And I get why A.

Speaker 6 (01:21:36):
Steven Spielberg type doesn't really care about it because he
doesn't have to, you know, but a Bowie Adullah big
type has to know because I don't have any of
that of what Steven Spielberg has.

Speaker 4 (01:21:50):
So yeah, be open to change and simply.

Speaker 6 (01:21:54):
Embrace it. And you know, understand that. You know, making
a movie nowadays is not actually that difficult anymore. You know,
it's difficult, but not as much. It's really what do
you do to get it noticed, to get it seen?
You know, That's really what we need to tackle. And

(01:22:17):
that's what I'm constantly trying.

Speaker 4 (01:22:20):
To figure out. You know, I'm not worried about my
next movie how to make it.

Speaker 6 (01:22:23):
I mean, of course, I'm not going to be an
argant prickins like, oh I got it all figured out,
I don't, you know. But my bigger concern is, Okay,
how do I get it seen? How do I frankly
make money? You know, you have to make money off
of it, because, like I said, you how else you're.

Speaker 4 (01:22:40):
Going to keep going and make more movies? You know,
So that's a challenge.

Speaker 6 (01:22:47):
And but the more services come out like Patreon, like
VHX and all that, it makes me feel good, you know,
I want an explosion of those services because eventually we'll
figure out something that is sustainable with in that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:00):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:23:01):
Yeah, and that's you know, that's true too, because you know,
making money or making a profit on this is again
it's how you make your next film, unless you if
you go go in and make a movie and it's
just the goal is just for experience or what have you,
and you spend like two thousand bucks and you're just like, look,
I'm gonna put.

Speaker 3 (01:23:21):
Up on YouTube.

Speaker 5 (01:23:21):
I don't maybe this will get me some hits, maybe
give me some subscribers, but I'm not gonna do this
for the you know, to make a profit or try
to sell this.

Speaker 3 (01:23:29):
Then that's fine that, you know, but if you're serious.

Speaker 5 (01:23:32):
About making this, you know, as a profit, you know,
making it profitable, you have to actually have a business plan.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
You have to think this way, you know. You can't
just sort of go in.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
And say, well, I hope things work out, you know,
because eventually someone's gonna come along. And this is a
story I'll say for another time, but I have a
friend of mine and he had the attitude and finally somebody,
a big distributor came to him and actually asked him
for those materials, those business materials, those accounting materials and
everything else, and he was like, I don't have anything.
I have no, I can't give you the budget, I

(01:24:04):
can't give you this, I can't give you that. And
there's a couple of things they asked them for and
eventually they just sort of walked. Very interesting story. I mean,
I'll tell it some time or I'll bring him on
to tell it. But but you know, like you said,
there's a lot of options out there, and you know,
but yeah, we've been talking for about, you know, about
an hour twenty now, so you know, you know, in closing,

(01:24:26):
is there anything you wanted to maybe say, any final
thoughts or closing thoughts you want to out of this conversation.

Speaker 6 (01:24:31):
You know, just want obviously thank you for having me.
I really appreciate it, and you know, I love what
you're doing.

Speaker 4 (01:24:37):
Keep doing it. We need guys like.

Speaker 6 (01:24:38):
You, you know, and I just want to just generally
tell everyone, you know, if you want to make a movie,
make it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
Do it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:46):
Obviously, be smart about it, think about all those things
we've been talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
But just do it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:51):
Man, Life's way too short. And like I said, if
you're smart about it. You can do all kinds of things. Also,
if you are curious about my film, go project Eugenics
dot com. You can rent it, or you can purchase
just a movie, or there's a Filmmaker Edition which has
the making off features we talked about. And also I

(01:25:11):
have a promo quote that I created just for the
listeners here. If you get the Filmmaker Edition and just
punch in in the coupon section, punch in podcast and
you'll get thirty percent off. So it's actually for you Americans.
It'll be even better. Oh no, wait, I'm trying to think.
Think is it in US or Canadian? Anyway, it'll be

(01:25:32):
either better, it'll be the same. So yeah, it'll be
it's fourteen ninety nine and then you'll get thirty percent
off of that for the Filmmaker Edition. So and yeah,
if anyone has ever any questions, just you know, ask me.
You can email me at info at dulabic Studio dot
com du L A B I C. Or just look

(01:25:55):
me up online. I'm very easily stockable online.

Speaker 3 (01:26:01):
Yeah, I found j just so here go.

Speaker 4 (01:26:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:06):
You know, I want to say thank you so much
for coming on boly on. I will everyone.

Speaker 5 (01:26:10):
Again, as always, I will link to everything we talked
about in the show notes all the I will even
link to the article that Ban wrote for Jason Brubaker's
website about how he made the film for five thousand dollars,
and I'll look to everything else, all these social media sites,
but we all want to see. Thanks you for coming on,
and you know again I wish you the best of luck,

(01:26:30):
you know, with with not with Projectujenics, whatever you're doing,
the whatever you're doing after Project Eugenics and all your
future projects.

Speaker 6 (01:26:37):
Thank you, my friend, and again thank you for having
me and absolutely keep on rocking, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
Oh, thank you for the same, buddy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at any film wescle
dot com forward slash seven ninety nine, and if you
have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com,
subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It
really helps us out a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:27:04):
Guys.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
Thank you again so much for listening to guys.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
indiefilm Hustle dot com. That's I N D I E
F I L M h U S t l E
dot com.

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