August 5, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Whitney Davis, a seasoned literary manager and script consultant, breaks down the real-deal process of getting noticed in Hollywood—from landing a manager to crafting query letters that don’t suck. Sharing her own unconventional path into the industry, Whitney offers raw, practical advice for screenwriters and indie filmmakers on how to pitch like a pro, avoid rookie mistakes, and build lasting relationships that actually move careers forward. This is a no-fluff, insider’s guide to breaking in and leveling up in the film industry.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/indie-film-hustle-a-filmmaking-podcast--2664729/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
fourteen Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
Roman Polanski.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with
their films from predatory film distributors ripping them off to
huckster film aggregators who prey upon them. The odds are
(00:57):
stacked against the indie filmmaker. The distribution model of making
money with your film is broken, and there needs to
be a change the future of independent filmmaking is the
entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur. In Rise of the
Film Entrepreneur, I break down how to actually make money
with your film projects and show you how to turn
your indie film into a profitable business. With case studies
(01:20):
examining successes and failures. This book shows you the step
by step method to turn your passion into a profitable career.
If you're making a feature film, series, or any other
kind of video content, the Film Entrepreneur method will set
you up for success. The book is available in paperback, ebook,
and of course audiobook. If you want to order it,
(01:42):
just head over to www. Dot filmbiz book dot com.
That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So, my guest today is a literary manager and script
consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we
discussed that very question what does it take to make
it to the next level? And we all know what
that next level is, and that's all really very subjective,
and I want to make sure everyone knows that because
if you know, if you haven't written a script before,
(02:14):
your next level is writing a script. If you've written
ten scripts in your next levels. You want to get representation.
You have representation in your next level is you want
to get it made by an a list cast and crew.
Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks
a lot for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You know, my pleasure. You know, it's funny, we were
trying to get a hold of each other for a while.
Now we just keep missing each other. But I'm so
glad we can finally connect because you know, I saw
your bio and you have a really, really cool bio,
and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Well. Thanks. It's been quite a journey.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
That is for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that, Ernie,
and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did
you get started, you know, in the whole uh literary
management business, and how did you get involved in the
consulting business.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So basically what I'm asking is, where did this whole
journey start?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Oh my gosh, this crazy story. To make it short,
because it obviously has been a ten year journey. Essentially,
I was in the right place at the right time,
with the right person. Is how this whole journey started.
About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles
with zero aspirations to be in the entertainment industry. It
(03:32):
wasn't even really on my radar. And I had always
thought I was going to be a novelist. Actually, that
if I ever really sat down and put pen to paper,
which I think is something that a lot of people
struggle with actually getting started, that if I ever actually
got started, that I was going to write a book.
And I was actually at a party and this woman
approached me and I didn't know who she was or
what she did, and she asked me what I was
(03:53):
doing was myself and I was like, well, I'm actually
raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really,
I mean, what do you want to do. I'm like, well,
you know, maybe I'll write a book, And so she
started asking me about it. And when I told her
about this concept for my book, her face just dropped
and she was like, I'm going to have my assistant
contact to you tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
And I was like, what what is that?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
And so her assistant actually did come over the next day,
and I kid you not, this never happens that was
a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVB's and a
stack of TV pilots, and they said, forget your book.
Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And
she happened to be a TV lit agent with William
Morris at the time, and so that is how I
(04:35):
got my start, and to segue into the other part
of it, you know, I started in the television business,
and then the Ryder strike happened, and so people started
Once I was out of work, people started bringing me
their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this
over since she already kind of broke in, And I
was like sure, And so I did it for free
for a while because they didn't know any better, and
then I was like, maybe I should charge and people
(04:57):
will go away, and then it just got worse. So
I just did script development for a long time, and
then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred. Some of
my clients that were starting to do well in the
contest asked if I would consider managing them, and I
said no for a long time, and then it was
just like I was actually already kind of orchestrating meetings,
(05:18):
and so I finally just said what the heck, And
I just jumped in with both feet. So that is
how I got to where I am today, in a nutshell,
very crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So when you first moved to LA, was there a
reason that you moved to LA because I know you
said you didn't want to be in the entertainment business
at that point.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
So my husband at the time, he was there for
grad school and so he had come to UCLA to
get his master's degree. And I actually had applied to
be an English teacher at Santa Monica High School, but
then I found out I was pregnant, so I just
decided the baby was coming in December, which was going
to be in the middle of the years. I just
(05:59):
actually decided not to teach at all. And again, like
it was just the perfect timing that, right, you know,
right after the baby was born and I was kind
of had my feet back off, you know, up again,
that I ran into this woman and started developing my
original TV series and all that. So it was just
and it was hilarious because I was so green. I
(06:19):
didn't know anything, Like I was just like, oh, this
is kind of cool. But now looking back on it,
I'm like, oh my gosh, what an amazing opportunity, like
people would have killed to be in my position, and
I was just kind of like doodling along like it
was no big deal. But now looking back at it,
I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an
amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid.
(06:41):
You know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded,
so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say, oh, yeah,
here's my idea. And I essentially pitched her without knowing
I was pitching her. So that's what I always tell
people that they just need to do their pitches. You know,
when they pitch, they just need to do their pitches
like they're having a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is
just a human being like you and me. All they
(07:01):
want is to hear a great story. And I think
people get really nervous at the thought of pitching. But
you know, the other person listening to your pitch isn't
like a unicorn, like they just you know, they're just
a regular human who wants to find great material. And
so I just say, hey, the best way to pitch
is just having a conversation. You know, that's the best,
the best advice I can give on that, because that's
(07:21):
how it happened for me. It didn't even know it
that it was happening, so it was great.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he
gave advice to pitching, and his advice was, have you
He said, when you ever, when you're ever going out
there and you tell your friends about some movie and
they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and
you say yeah, and then your friends says, well what happens, Well, okay,
let me tell you what happens in the movie. He
says that, right there is how you should pitch to people.
He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these
days for you know, how to pitch, and I really
think there is no you know, formula you would say,
I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just
I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
I was really amazed, Like I sat and probably listened
to one hundred and fifty pitches and there was a
(08:10):
real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortably
and like knew their story well as opposed to those
who were trying I felt like to follow a very
formulate pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this,
and you know, I could just tell that they were
tied up and am I giving them the right information
in the right in the right sequence, I guess. So yeah,
(08:31):
I mean that's just something that I really love to
talk to people about, is just pitching bravely, like not
being afraid to just say what they want to say
and not worrying about a formula or anything like that.
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So are you are you still working with that with
the Asian manager?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
No? Actually, I mean we are still on great terms.
But after the like I said, after the so we
kind of went through the pitching process of pitching my
series at the time, and they had married me. For
a lot of writers that don't know this, I think
that a lot of you know, getting into the TV
industry is or any you know, whether it be feature
(09:10):
or film or feature film or TV, it's just like
really understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So
you know, I was like, oh, I'm going to sell
this pilot, blah blah blah. But really it was just
you know, when we went on our general meetings, they
just wanted to see what kind of a writer I
was and what my personality was, and so I thought
I just had all of my expectations like turned upside down.
(09:35):
So anyway, after we pitched it and I didn't, it
didn't get bought, but I got hired. We went through that,
and then once the once the writers strike happened and
I had the baby and things were getting crazy, I
just I decided to just go with a script consulting
and we just kind of parted ways amicably. But it
was just because I kind of decided not to go
back into a writer's room per se, because it was
(09:55):
just more amenable to being a mom doing the scripts
can thing. And plus I get so much.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Satisfaction out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
Look it, really, I really love that. So I think
that's line management was a natural segue for me because
there's so much of that in managing someone and helping them,
you know, get to the next level and developing their
ideas and being a sounding board. So to answer question, no,
(10:33):
I'm not with that agent anymore. But we you know,
it just was a natural kind of break and we're
still on great terms and I fear every so often
then she's a CIA now actually so she even moved
since then.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But yeah, so you know you brought about moving to
the next level, you know, as as some of the
questions as you can see that came in, Whitney. I
think that's a hot button issue for a lot of people,
is moving to that next level, you know, And so
spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of the that's
some of the questions that have come in. But but
(11:05):
before we get before we get to that, I just
want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know you have
worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grassani Lead
Jess Up by the way, they've all been on the podcast.
It's so, how did you end up working, you know,
with a lot of these people in the field, because
these are all you know, well known people. Again, you
you've worked with Steve Kaplan, Jen Grassani, Lead, Jess Up,
(11:28):
John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know, how did you end
up working and meeting with all these people?
Speaker 4 (11:33):
You know what, honestly, I saw some out, Like I
was just like, if I'm going to do this, and
I want to learn and you know, learn from the best,
and so I just made an effort, you know, to
save Like this was kind of in that journey where
I was. It was kind of this weird in between
period where I was doing the script consulting and was
(11:53):
kind of deciding like as I personally wanted and I
guess I'm kind of an entrepreneur in that degree deciding
aside wanted to take my career to the next levels
and going into management, and so I just knew who
the experts in the field were, and I was just like,
you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to
find them out. I'm going to seek them out and
find them and talk to them. And so essentially I
just kind of made like a business plan that I
(12:15):
was going to save up certain amounts of money and
like invest in myself to go to their classes and
meet them and start relationships with them. And so that
I think is part of where why I am where
I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was
like I'm gonna do whatever it takes to just kind
of get get in front of these people and meet
them and talk to them and so you know, and
(12:38):
then it's started being crazy that like we I mean,
it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind
of getting into that world with them, like I see
them everywhere. Like I was just with Jen and New York.
We were doing a conference together and I see lead
jessup and like I'm helping Steve with his comedy class
in January. So, I mean, that's how I did it
(12:59):
was I just took the initiative myself and went out,
was like, I want to be associated with the people
who know what they're doing, and I just took the
initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them. Actually,
so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid, I guess.
So I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet,
I think it's made you know, everything a little easier
and a little harder at the same time. And one
of the things that's made a little easier is finding
these people. Because you know, all the people that we
just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did
you did you find them through their websites or did
you bump into them maybe at a conference, cause you know, I.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Bumped into them all at conferences. I mean I knew
people in the industry, and I had just been hearing
about these people, and so like I either attended I mean,
I met them all in person. I made an effort.
And again this is hard if you're not local to
LA because a lot of the people are local to LA.
But I made the effort to go to the conferences
to make sure I went up to them afterwards and
spoke to them. And you know, now I really consider
(14:02):
them friends and colleagues. So I just I mean, I
was truthful. I was like, hey, like I want to
I want to learn from you, like I want to
know what to do. But for people who aren't local
to LA, I mean all these people, Dan Lee, Steve,
John Truby, Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know all these
people have I just say, the best thing that you
can do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts,
(14:25):
they have you know, online seminars, they have these things.
Like these people know what it takes to get to
the next level. I mean they are the experts. And
I say, if you can't meet them in person, like
tweet at them, email them. You know, they do phone consults.
They know that Lee does for sure, and like just
stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely
(14:46):
they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well,
So I mean, you know, you just I think you
just got to put yourself out there and like make
it known, like I always tell the writers I work with,
like make it known within the first five minutes of
a conversation that you want to write and you want
to do this, and this is what your goal is. Like,
I think it's important to speak that step out into
the universe, to like let the world know, because it's
(15:08):
like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it,
you know what I mean. So I think there's a
lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that
that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to
it and app can, you know. So I think that
that's an important aspect of a writing.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding
out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing
in on those people is really important as well.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And in terms you know, in terms of like I
think one of the questions that the guy asked. There
was a guy that was like, maybe he wasn't local
to LA, but he asked about queering. He's like, is
that my only option? Like I'm not in LA, and like,
you know, I always say, even if you can make
one trip out to LA and go to like one
of the big conferences like Great American Pitchfest or Story
(15:56):
Expo or like I know there's others that are like
American Film Market or any of those things, Like so
many people are at those and just even making face
to face contact for five minutes and handing them your
business card and making a contact, Like that's enough. There
been and of itself to like send a query, and
like agents and managers show up to these things like
(16:18):
to film festivals and all these things. So I think
that a cold query can be a little hard and
difficult in terms of taking things to the next level.
But I'm just like, man, if you can invest and
take one trip out to LA like a year, like
it can do what and you go to the right
event and you know, make sure you talk to the
right people, like it can radically change the trajectory of
(16:40):
your career. Absolutely, one you.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Know, we were talking about you know, you you're you
went to the management side, uh, you know, of the business,
and I wanted to ask you a whitney, what are
some of the things that you know that have you
have seen? And that sort of like is uh, that's
what I'm trying to say, is sort of like a
normal thing that you see, like the most common error
screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Oh, gosh, you know, that's a really tough question because
I think everyone obviously is so individual, but I think
that one of the common common errors that will turn
either an agent or a manager off is just the
way in which they go about contacting them. Actually, like
(17:30):
you really need to research the agent or manager that
you're trying to talk to. I know that one of
the big things among agent and managers often if you're
sending a query letter that you're sending to a lot
of different people, a lot of times, like the person
sending in either the query for their film or their
TV show or their literary novel will sell the agent's
(17:52):
name wrong or spell the manager's name wrong. And that
is like the number one turnoff, Like you're not even
paying attention to what you're doing, you know, So number one,
I think you should paying attention to detail and showing
that you're serious. I think another things that they look for,
like which is crazy, is typos, like they'll forgive them that.
They're like if an email is just chock full of typos,
(18:14):
they're just like people want to write, like what is this?
You know? So I think said those detail oriented things
are one of the things. The other thing is it's
good to be persistent, Like I think it's always good
to follow up with an agent or manager, but you
have to understand that most agents and managers are absolutely
drowning in either scripts or books to read, like drowning
(18:36):
all the time, like you're always playing catch up. And
so a major turnoff is like if you tell someone, hey,
thank you so much for submitting your script to your book,
like expect you know, to hear from me in four
to six weeks. And you know, an agent, an amateur
who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate,
They like, you know, they get antsy and they want
(18:56):
to know. And I totally understand that because I've been there,
But to say start emailing like every day or every
two days, which has totally happened, like have you have
you read my have you read my book? Have you
read my script? Have you done this? Have you done that?
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Like where just I forget it, Like if they.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to drive
agents and managers crazy and they just you know, they
won't respond, like they just won't. They're just like these
people can't be patient, like I'm not you know, I'm not.
So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying
is there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in
terms I guess as behavior or just general manners that
(19:33):
those two minor things can be enough to turn an
agent or a manager off. Unfortunately. I think. So those
are kind of my two two big things I think of,
which aren't even which aren't even material related, which is
like a whole other you know, which is a whole
other thing.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
So those are like actionable items that people can look for,
like don't send a query with typos, don't over you know,
bother the agent's managers. And then there's the material side
of things in terms of the content they send, which
is like a whole different ballgames that we should talk about,
but I don't know how much time we have.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
No, that sounds great if you If you have the time,
I'd love to get into that.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
You have to In terms of like, you know, I
think so to me says super quick. I think in
terms of the content people send, you know some people,
you've got like two types of people. And I don't
mean this negatively at all, but you've got your people
who are just like, my show is great, it's completely original.
It's the next blah blah blah, which is totally awful
to say. People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the
(20:46):
next JK. Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino. It's like,
don't you know they'll say that, And there are things
that it's like, do not compare yourself to the greatest
you know people out there. That's just a no note.
But in terms of like the material, like I think
a lot of it is people just they want to
be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes
new will come to me and they want to be managed,
(21:08):
and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have.
And really it comes to an aspect of like are
these people ready to be is their material ready to
be shopped? And the things that I look for to
make sure that a material, you know, that a that
a either a script or a TV show or a
novel is ready to be shopped. It's like is this
story structure there, because a lot of times it's like
(21:28):
they don't even have, like I'll read through it and
like key components of what makes a story a story
you're missing, Like there's no catalyst. It's like, what's the
insiding incident in this story? Or you know, there is
no Allah's lost moment where the character really comes to
this deep dark place where they have to rise back
to the top again. You know, is that's missing? It's like,
(21:50):
you know, there's nothing I can't manage that now on
my consulting developmental side, like yes, that's what I'll work
with you to fix. But in terms of you know,
are you ready a lot of another thing that will
kill you know, a story or something like that is
really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is one of the hardest
things to write, and when you're reading through a script,
(22:11):
if it's really stilted or unnatural, that's something that will
turn an agent or a manager off when they're skimming
through and reading. So you know, those are the things
that I think you really have to pay attention to.
And that's why the people like Vogler and Grissanti and
John Truby are absolutely like amazing. Like Robert McCaine just
put a book out on dialogue and I read it,
(22:33):
and I mean, this is my business, and I like
consider myself like pretty high up there. Not Robert McKee standard,
but like, you know, I know how to write dialogue.
And I read the book and I was like blown away.
I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of
this step. And I think people sometimes think that writing
dialogue should be an innate ability, Like we all talk,
(22:53):
so we all should be able to write that. But
when you translate that to a script or to a book,
it just, you know, it's hot. And so I think
people the best thing that they can do for themselves
is just practice daily read up on you know, techniques
and ideas from the experts, and just don't give up
(23:14):
because that and just keep working. And I think that
that's like the best thing that you can do. And
how does someone read it before you send it to
an agent or manager, like have it covered, or have
Jen Grassanti or Lee or me or someone you know
take a look at it, because that really helps to
have someone in industry that knows what is people want
know what's out there to make sure you're on the
(23:36):
right track. I mean, I think feedback can be invaluable
if you.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Get it from the right from the right source.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
And you know when I think a lot of times too.
You know, when you send a script to a agent or
a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right,
you know, it's going to have their assistant read it.
And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this
get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say
(24:04):
they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by
the first page they can they conceive. So okay, so
that is right?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing
is now for someone like me because I am a
small boutique management firm, like it is me and one
other person's I'm obviously not Circle's confusion. I'm not you know,
mad House. You know I'm not you know CAA, I'm
not one of these big things. So I actually read
the scripts myself. But what is true is this, and
(24:34):
this is the truth people, you, for those of you listening,
the sad thing is this. It's like if you're at
one of those big houses, and this is the problem.
If an assistant or a reader reads the script and
gives it a consider or you know, you know, pushes
it on to their boss. You know, they spend you know,
(24:54):
the assistant spent all weekend reading and if they say
consider or that they're going to send it on to
their boss, that means their boss, the manager itself, is
going to take time out of their day or their
weekend to read it. And if it sucks or it's
awful and their assistant passed it on, guess what happens
to that assistant.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
They're bone, They're fired.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And so honestly, assistance, unless it is just absolutely cream
of the crop amazing, what the sad reality.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Is is assistants are Assistants are scared to pass.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
It on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing,
because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I
don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know
that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms,
so you just have to be So what I guess
it's to say is like it's just that's how it is, unfortunately.
And so for me though, like being a small manager,
(25:49):
like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and
develop people. And that's why I think the cold query
is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes
it isn't always about the content that the writer has.
It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
(26:10):
like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I
can sit down with a person and usually know within
less than five minutes if I'm going to work with
them or not, just based on their personality. So that's
why I tell people, if you can get in front
of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket because
they're going to be working with you. And so even
(26:31):
though your content may not be the best, if they
can tell that you are a go getter and a
talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to
take a chance on you. And so that's why it's
just downright scary to send something in cold like CAAA,
Chris Serve, any of those big boys just because that's
how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can
(26:52):
meet those agency managers that work at those places at
like industry events, then you're in a better, a much
much better better scenario, you.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Know, because you know, it's like I've had people in
here before and they would say, you know, getting a manager,
getting an agent, or even a manager more so than
an agent, but it's about a relationship cause you're going
to be working that for that person for for months
or years to come.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
I always say it is totally like a marriage. And
you know what's a crazy thing is is I've talked
to people before where I've been meeting them kind of
see if we're going to work together, and I've even
had to be like, look, it's not even about your content,
like because honestly, I feel like I feel like every
agent and every manager kind of has like their specialty
(27:37):
or their niche where they feel most comfortable and so
like mine at the current moment is television. Like I
feel like I have much more connections and much more
understanding of the te re world than I do of
the film world. Do I know producers and people in
the film world, guess, but I just don't feel as
comfortable in that space. So when someone comes to me
and they ask me what I consider managing that all
(27:59):
they have as features, Like I sit there and I'm like, look,
I'm just gonna shoot straight with you, like your step
is great, but honestly, I just may not be the
right manager for you, only because I don't think I'm
going to be able that I have what you know,
that I have the contacts to shop you in the
right in the right places, and I don't want to
do a disservice to you knowing that I probably am
(28:23):
not going to be the best fit. So I'm just
modest with them and say like, look, it's nothing about
your your ability or your talent, Like I just can
tell that we're not going to be a good fit,
or like I've pulled several people like you're great, that
I'm just not passionate about this particular project. And to
work together, like you guys, you have to be in pandem,
like you have to be on the same page. You
(28:44):
have to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight
for you and advocate for you one hundred percent. And
so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like it's
just it really is. It's like a weird form of
dating in a way, like you really just have to
make sure that you click and that you gel together
because you really are in this weird writing marriage, you know.
(29:06):
So I think that that's been an interesting thing. I've
learned that I've turned people down who are really talented.
I just know that I'm not the best fit for them.
So it's hard, it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of
the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had
a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know,
I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you
mind answering a few questions right now?
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Absolutely, you know, actually just telling you with what you
just said. The first question is do I need more
than one script to approach a manager?
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Yes, absolutely you do. Generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
When you come to a manager, lead Jessa, this is
one of the main nuggets that I learned from her
back in the day. You really need what's called a
writer's portfolio, and so generally what that entails is you
really need to have even if you're not a TV person.
This is generally across the board just what a screenwriter
needs to have. You need to have a really strong
(30:16):
TV pilot. You need to have a really strong spec
pilot for something currently or not spec pilot, but that's
script for something currently on air. So I tell people,
you know, look, get watch television. Kind of pick your
top ten. Well, I call a hit list of TV
shows you'd really love to write for. Then kind of
(30:37):
knowing what your talent is, narrow that down to like five,
and then pick one of them and do a really
good spec because you know, people at the networks and
people you know at the production companies want to see
that you can mimic the tone and style of someone
else's work, and even at the studios for features, because
(30:57):
you know they do work for hire for real rice
all the time for movies, but they want to keep
it in kind of that same tone. So they want
to see that you can somewhat do that and then
also have a really really strong feature And if you
have more than that, then that great. But three is
kind of the minimum. And then you know people coming
(31:18):
to me being like, well, I have five features and
three you know, three TV pilots. What do I do?
And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good
indication in your gut which went through your this, you
know or the strongest, like you need to take those really,
you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them,
and then use those to send out kind of as
(31:39):
your portfolio. So absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one
TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air
in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming, and
then a really strong original feature that you've written.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
And also Withney, I think we I should probably mention too,
and maybe I should have us question before, but you know,
there would you briefly just describe, you know, the difference
between a manager and an agent, because you know, I
sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an obsession
about getting an agent when really it should probably get
a manager. Correct.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want,
you can go to my website, I actually just did
a four part series on representation, one on one explaining
all of this, but to really do a short recap. So,
an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate and
execute the sale of your work. So they come in
whin their business to be done, so they are the
(32:36):
ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent,
and so they really don't do They may read your scripts,
but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't
going to take the time to like read it, give
notes all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere
from thirty to fifty clients on their roster, depending on
where they are in the life of their kind of career,
(33:01):
so they can take on a lot more people because
they literally are just doing the business side. The one
thing also you need to know is the agents are
not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is
executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the
flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote unquote
(33:22):
procure employment for their client. They're not allowed to like
quote unquote get you a job like doing anything per se.
But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they
cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent's role.
So what the manager does is the manager really is
(33:46):
all about developing your career. They are the ones that
usually go about helping you network and get meetings, like
I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a
few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
They're the one who are going to really organize and
schedule those meetings for you and get you in the
(34:07):
door a lot of times. Now, what's different though, as
a manager can produce, which in some senses is good
because your manager is way more invested in that sense.
So they also take ten percent of whatever happened generally
because they're the ones doing the heavy listing in the
footwork of like helping you develop your concepts and reading
(34:30):
and giving you notes and like really involved in the
day to day. So yes, at the beginning of your career,
if you can snag a manager like that's probably one
of the best things you can do. And a lot
of people don't even have agents. They can in lieu
of an agent, so they can just use an entertainment lawyer,
which is just the same an entertainment attorney, which is
just the same thing. But what's great was an agent.
(34:53):
I'll say this caveat which great was an Asian. If
you have an agent at CIA or one of the
bigger firms, what's great is if they have someone else
in their agency like actresses and directors and all that.
The great thing is they can package you know, material
and that will help. So it's like if you have
your script, but then they have actresses, A, B, and
(35:14):
fee at their firm that are wanting to attach, and
then they also have this director and then they can
take it as one did package. That definitely, you know,
incentivizes the sale. So those are the two big things.
Agents licensed by the state negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager
is not allowed to do that, but they can produce.
(35:34):
And they're the day to day development, getting you meetings,
helping you network, helping you brand yourselves, helping you write,
just kind of grooming you for your career. So that's
the short explanation. I hope that helps.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information,
especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also
I hear, you know, people will always will always talk
about that, and you know, I think a lot of
times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's
almost like the whole agent thing.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean,
I guess it's at your management for it, but it's
I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind
of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on
the agency sides in the management side to say package,
but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong,
so who I'll put that at the Carriot that. I'm
(36:31):
not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at the
moment that's what it's telling me. But may be wrong,
so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check.
But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side
than the management side. Did they do that?
Speaker 3 (36:45):
If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Whitney.
I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guy's this year.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
People, I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't
know what to say, so so yeah, So that's the
differences between agents and managers. So yeah, I think management.
I mean, I love it. I just I just love
being a part of the It's a sickness, really loving
loving to be a part of the process so much.
(37:09):
People are like every day it's so funny. I'm just like,
why do I do this? And then I'm like, when
like a breakthrough happens, I'm like.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yes, this is the best.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
I mean, it's just like it's it's such a crazy, crazy,
crazy existence.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you
know what I mean, It's like the h the highest
of highs and lows.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
But the thing is, you know, and that's why, you know,
I guess that some of people can look on it
as being shady, even though I don't think it's shady.
That's I haven't given up the consulting side of my business.
Can you. People come to me and they're like, I
want to be managed. I know that they're just not
there yet. So I offer consulting services. And I always say,
you know, if you don't want to stay with me,
because you know, you think that's odd. Like I'm totally
(37:51):
willing to, you know, send people to several of my
different colleagues. But like the consulting side is just that
I love so much too because I love of the
people that are that need the expertise of an industry,
you know, you know, an industry like expert or whatever,
and I love being that person to help teach them
and all that. So it's kind of a it's kind
(38:13):
of a crazy, crazy thing. I love doing both have
so I feel like I can get away with it
because my management, you know, cluster is so small at
the moment that I still can help the people that
are the up and coming aspiring writers. So I really,
I really still enjoy doing that so much too.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, I could tell you know, you really enjoy doing it,
and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know,
you have to have people that really enjoy this actually
out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
I love it so much, and I think some people
get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I
just find it all so fascinating, like the way that
the human mind works and the things that people can
come up with. I'm just like, I mean, I like visibly,
like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my
face just lights up. I'm like, oh, like yes, I'm
just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some of
the stuff that some of my consulting clients are pitching
(39:09):
at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait for
them to pitch it because I just get so excited
for them because the ideas they're so freaking, you know, amazing.
So we'll just we'll just see it's this fun, exciting world.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I actually have a few of the questions I I'm
going to try to answer or I've started trying to
ask these last two. So uh Whitney other This is
by at Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some
of your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider?
Was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address
this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it.
So the query is a really test thing. Like to him,
I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and
you don't live in LA, we'll be.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Right back after a word from our sponsor and now
back to the show.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
I would really just make sure there is a process
to the query. So I would make sure and there's
like an actual format to a query letter for film
and TV. So I would look up or buy a
book on how to specifically query your book or your
film or your TV show. Second, if there's a specific
place that you know that you want to send it, like,
(40:27):
I would research those agencies or those firms and check
their submission requirements because oftentimes certain places are closed to
unsolicited queries and it's referral only, so you need to
check and make sure that they're open to unsolicited queries,
and yeah, for someone who doesn't live in LA, that
(40:50):
may be your only shot. But like I said, it
is not super expensive to get to LA these days,
I feel like, and it's just like if you can
save up and come to one of them or one
kind of industry saying it can and again I would
probably say Great American Pitchfest something like that is like
one of the best things that you can invest in
(41:10):
because you can get in front of like a hundred
management companies and producers who you can pitch to, and
you know, it's just it can change, it can change
your life. Like honestly, so in terms of a query,
there's nothing wrong with them. I take unsolicited queries. You
can submit soon in my website. I know that a
(41:31):
few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe Circle of Confusion.
But you know, the other thing I would do to
honestly for a person like that is reach out to
people on Twitter and ask if they have managers or
agents and like if you can get a referral, like
if you can send it to a This is another
way in which is a good point. If you can
find another writer who's currently represented and you send them
(41:54):
there your query first and have them look at over
and if they like it, they may be willing to
pass it on to their agent or manager. And that's
a way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So you feel
like you have to find these backdoor ways in So
if he can find someone on Twitter or Facebook or
LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like that
might be a great way to go too, if he
(42:14):
can't get to La.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter
is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time.
I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because
almost everyone now is on Twitter.
Speaker 5 (42:27):
Oh, I mean Twitter is absolutely amazing. Like it's crazy
to me, like.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
About how many people I've met on Twitter, Like I've
gotten a few.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
Clients off off of Twitter.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I think it is insane, And I think to the
screenwriting world, it really is the best social media platform
for connecting for sure? Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way.
I think it is the top one, honestly.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
So that's what I.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Would say, is like cold query, make sure that they
take submissions, if not come to an event and if
not signed another writer who is repped and see failed
look at your stuff and check it out, or several
of the last one is several of the if you
can afford to hire one of the consultants. They all,
I mean, we all know people, and so if they
(43:10):
come across something that's really amazing, like they aren't, they
will be willing to pass it on as well. So
I mean, I think. And the other thing is contests,
Like if you enter contests and you place in a contest,
all those lists go to agents and managers the people
that place. So that's another way to break in for sure,
and so that may be easier than querying. Honestly, it's
(43:30):
just you know, applying for a you know, entering into
one of the many many contests out there.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is
they want to see what you're your writing can do
up against other people's writing. And you know I've heard
that where they want to see, you know, hey, why
aren't they these people going in this competition? You know,
why aren't they you know, doing something, why aren't they
going that route?
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Say that's a good that's another good way if you're
not in Hollywood, because I know they takes, you know,
they it doesn't matter where you live, you can always
is enter those contests for sure.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
So Whitney, you know, we've been talking for about you know,
forty minutes now. So in closing, is there anything that
we did get a chance to discuss that you may
have wanted to or a sort of you know, anything
you wanted to say to put a peer at the
ennis whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
No, I mean, I just I think that I want
to tell people that truly, if they set their minds
out to do it, it's amazing that if they just
keep at it, keep meeting people, keep writing, things can
happen for you. The two things I say, the two
piece of writing are patience and persistence. So I think
(44:36):
it just really is a journey. And if you're patient
yet persistent and just keep at it, you know, I
truly believe things will happen for people. And I think
it really is half relationships, half who you know, and
half you know craft and how well you write. So
I just always tell people always be nice to everybody
you know you meet, make an effort to be friends
(44:59):
with them, beyond on just wanting to sell, you know,
sell them or pitch them your idea and just continue
to really practice the craft of writing and write because
you love it, not because you want to make money
off of it. I mean, I think some people you
know can make money off of it, and that's the great,
but it's just like, right, because you love it and
that's what you really want to do. And I think
(45:20):
the money will come if you go, you know, look
at it as a business and go about the right
way of approaching it. So those are just kind of
my last do you nuggets as ice and encouragement. Just
keep at it. Just patience and persistence is the key,
and being nice to people and it'll all, you know,
hopefully it's all into place.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice
to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney,
And I'm sure you get this all the time. I
get a lot of people who immediately follow me or
they'll send me an email to my website and right
away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can
you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like,
I don't even know who you are. I don't even
know what the movie is, right, Like, why don't you.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
Yeah, And I'm telling you I And what I really
appreciate is even the writers that I know once they
but they actually just like act me out for coffee
and like we go to coffee and just get to
know each other before they make you know, a certain
ask or whatever. I mean, it really is about just
getting to know other writers and building those relationships and
you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start asking
(46:31):
favors of them. I just think there's so much power
and acknowledging success just to be like days, you like
do a great job at podcasting, like thank you so
much for the for what you put out there in
the Twitter universe and social media at large, and started
that conversation that way, and then maybe after a few days,
like you know, it's been so great talking to you.
I was just curious. It's you know, maybe we could
(46:52):
do X, Y and V together and like have something
to offer back to them, like if you, like I said, like,
if you're going to offer to like reach you know,
ask somebody to do this, be like, hey, in return,
I'm more than happy to do X, Y and Z
for you in the future, like see if you can
barter or something like that makes it a lot, a lot,
a lot more acceptable to me that people would be
(47:14):
willing if they know that you're also willing to give
on your end. So I think it's definitely a give
and take. And the writing community is such a great place.
I just love it so much. So, I mean, that's
what I always say, be nice to people. The first
rule of everything. It will it will come back around
in a great, great way.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
If you can do that, You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney,
Where can you will find you online?
Speaker 4 (47:38):
They can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and
then they can sign me across all social media at
W davisliterary dot com. I mean, well at W. Davis Literary. Yeah,
the handle on Twitter, Pebook and LinkedIn and everywhere else.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
I guess, yeah, and everyone I'm going to link to
that in the show notes. You know can always find
me at Dave Bullis dot com. The show notes will
be on Dave Bulls dot com and of course follow
me on Twitter at Dave Underscore Bullets. Whitney Davis, I
want to say thank you so much for coming on
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
Thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Oh, I'm glad you had fun because this is your
first podcast. I'm glad you know you had fun on it.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Yes, it was amazing. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney. And you know, if
you ever want to come back on the show, please
just let me know. I mean more than happy to
have you back on.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
I would love it. We'll have to figure something else
to something else to talk about, but for.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
We just do networking. I love talking about networking for riders.
It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about
how I how I network when I go on other
people's podcasts.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
So we should do it.
Speaker 5 (48:51):
It'll be fun.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, we could do like a dual networking fabe. Pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
Oh, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you, ay time,
take care, bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at indie film muscle
dot com Ford Slash eight fourteen.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
If you have it already.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and
leave a good review for the show. It really helps
us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
to you soon.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
Indie Film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
E F I L M h U S T l
E dot com.
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
fourteen Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
Roman Polanski.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today
than ever before for independent filmmakers to make money with
their films from predatory film distributors ripping them off to
huckster film aggregators who prey upon them. The odds are
(00:57):
stacked against the indie filmmaker. The distribution model of making
money with your film is broken, and there needs to
be a change the future of independent filmmaking is the
entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur. In Rise of the
Film Entrepreneur, I break down how to actually make money
with your film projects and show you how to turn
your indie film into a profitable business. With case studies
(01:20):
examining successes and failures. This book shows you the step
by step method to turn your passion into a profitable career.
If you're making a feature film, series, or any other
kind of video content, the Film Entrepreneur method will set
you up for success. The book is available in paperback, ebook,
and of course audiobook. If you want to order it,
(01:42):
just head over to www. Dot filmbiz book dot com.
That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So, my guest today is a literary manager and script
consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we
discussed that very question what does it take to make
it to the next level? And we all know what
that next level is, and that's all really very subjective,
and I want to make sure everyone knows that because
if you know, if you haven't written a script before,
(02:14):
your next level is writing a script. If you've written
ten scripts in your next levels. You want to get representation.
You have representation in your next level is you want
to get it made by an a list cast and crew.
Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks
a lot for coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
You know, my pleasure. You know, it's funny, we were
trying to get a hold of each other for a while.
Now we just keep missing each other. But I'm so
glad we can finally connect because you know, I saw
your bio and you have a really, really cool bio,
and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
Well. Thanks. It's been quite a journey.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
That is for sure.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that, Ernie,
and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did
you get started, you know, in the whole uh literary
management business, and how did you get involved in the
consulting business.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
You know.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So basically what I'm asking is, where did this whole
journey start?
Speaker 4 (03:12):
Oh my gosh, this crazy story. To make it short,
because it obviously has been a ten year journey. Essentially,
I was in the right place at the right time,
with the right person. Is how this whole journey started.
About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles
with zero aspirations to be in the entertainment industry. It
(03:32):
wasn't even really on my radar. And I had always
thought I was going to be a novelist. Actually, that
if I ever really sat down and put pen to paper,
which I think is something that a lot of people
struggle with actually getting started, that if I ever actually
got started, that I was going to write a book.
And I was actually at a party and this woman
approached me and I didn't know who she was or
what she did, and she asked me what I was
(03:53):
doing was myself and I was like, well, I'm actually
raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really,
I mean, what do you want to do. I'm like, well,
you know, maybe I'll write a book, And so she
started asking me about it. And when I told her
about this concept for my book, her face just dropped
and she was like, I'm going to have my assistant
contact to you tomorrow.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
And I was like, what what is that?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
And so her assistant actually did come over the next day,
and I kid you not, this never happens that was
a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVB's and a
stack of TV pilots, and they said, forget your book.
Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And
she happened to be a TV lit agent with William
Morris at the time, and so that is how I
(04:35):
got my start, and to segue into the other part
of it, you know, I started in the television business,
and then the Ryder strike happened, and so people started
Once I was out of work, people started bringing me
their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this
over since she already kind of broke in, And I
was like sure, And so I did it for free
for a while because they didn't know any better, and
then I was like, maybe I should charge and people
(04:57):
will go away, and then it just got worse. So
I just did script development for a long time, and
then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred. Some of
my clients that were starting to do well in the
contest asked if I would consider managing them, and I
said no for a long time, and then it was
just like I was actually already kind of orchestrating meetings,
(05:18):
and so I finally just said what the heck, And
I just jumped in with both feet. So that is
how I got to where I am today, in a nutshell,
very crazy.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
So when you first moved to LA, was there a
reason that you moved to LA because I know you
said you didn't want to be in the entertainment business
at that point.
Speaker 4 (05:38):
So my husband at the time, he was there for
grad school and so he had come to UCLA to
get his master's degree. And I actually had applied to
be an English teacher at Santa Monica High School, but
then I found out I was pregnant, so I just
decided the baby was coming in December, which was going
to be in the middle of the years. I just
(05:59):
actually decided not to teach at all. And again, like
it was just the perfect timing that, right, you know,
right after the baby was born and I was kind
of had my feet back off, you know, up again,
that I ran into this woman and started developing my
original TV series and all that. So it was just
and it was hilarious because I was so green. I
(06:19):
didn't know anything, Like I was just like, oh, this
is kind of cool. But now looking back on it,
I'm like, oh my gosh, what an amazing opportunity, like
people would have killed to be in my position, and
I was just kind of like doodling along like it
was no big deal. But now looking back at it,
I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an
amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid.
(06:41):
You know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded,
so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say, oh, yeah,
here's my idea. And I essentially pitched her without knowing
I was pitching her. So that's what I always tell
people that they just need to do their pitches. You know,
when they pitch, they just need to do their pitches
like they're having a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is
just a human being like you and me. All they
(07:01):
want is to hear a great story. And I think
people get really nervous at the thought of pitching. But
you know, the other person listening to your pitch isn't
like a unicorn, like they just you know, they're just
a regular human who wants to find great material. And
so I just say, hey, the best way to pitch
is just having a conversation. You know, that's the best,
the best advice I can give on that, because that's
(07:21):
how it happened for me. It didn't even know it
that it was happening, so it was great.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he
gave advice to pitching, and his advice was, have you
He said, when you ever, when you're ever going out
there and you tell your friends about some movie and
they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and
you say yeah, and then your friends says, well what happens, Well, okay,
let me tell you what happens in the movie. He
says that, right there is how you should pitch to people.
He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these
days for you know, how to pitch, and I really
think there is no you know, formula you would say,
I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just
I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
I was really amazed, Like I sat and probably listened
to one hundred and fifty pitches and there was a
(08:10):
real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortably
and like knew their story well as opposed to those
who were trying I felt like to follow a very
formulate pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this,
and you know, I could just tell that they were
tied up and am I giving them the right information
in the right in the right sequence, I guess. So yeah,
(08:31):
I mean that's just something that I really love to
talk to people about, is just pitching bravely, like not
being afraid to just say what they want to say
and not worrying about a formula or anything like that.
So I love it.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
So are you are you still working with that with
the Asian manager?
Speaker 4 (08:49):
No? Actually, I mean we are still on great terms.
But after the like I said, after the so we
kind of went through the pitching process of pitching my
series at the time, and they had married me. For
a lot of writers that don't know this, I think
that a lot of you know, getting into the TV
industry is or any you know, whether it be feature
(09:10):
or film or feature film or TV, it's just like
really understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So
you know, I was like, oh, I'm going to sell
this pilot, blah blah blah. But really it was just
you know, when we went on our general meetings, they
just wanted to see what kind of a writer I
was and what my personality was, and so I thought
I just had all of my expectations like turned upside down.
(09:35):
So anyway, after we pitched it and I didn't, it
didn't get bought, but I got hired. We went through that,
and then once the once the writers strike happened and
I had the baby and things were getting crazy, I
just I decided to just go with a script consulting
and we just kind of parted ways amicably. But it
was just because I kind of decided not to go
back into a writer's room per se, because it was
(09:55):
just more amenable to being a mom doing the scripts
can thing. And plus I get so much.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Satisfaction out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
Look it, really, I really love that. So I think
that's line management was a natural segue for me because
there's so much of that in managing someone and helping them,
you know, get to the next level and developing their
ideas and being a sounding board. So to answer question, no,
(10:33):
I'm not with that agent anymore. But we you know,
it just was a natural kind of break and we're
still on great terms and I fear every so often
then she's a CIA now actually so she even moved
since then.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
But yeah, so you know you brought about moving to
the next level, you know, as as some of the
questions as you can see that came in, Whitney. I
think that's a hot button issue for a lot of people,
is moving to that next level, you know, And so
spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of the that's
some of the questions that have come in. But but
(11:05):
before we get before we get to that, I just
want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know you have
worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grassani Lead
Jess Up by the way, they've all been on the podcast.
It's so, how did you end up working, you know,
with a lot of these people in the field, because
these are all you know, well known people. Again, you
you've worked with Steve Kaplan, Jen Grassani, Lead, Jess Up,
(11:28):
John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know, how did you end
up working and meeting with all these people?
Speaker 4 (11:33):
You know what, honestly, I saw some out, Like I
was just like, if I'm going to do this, and
I want to learn and you know, learn from the best,
and so I just made an effort, you know, to
save Like this was kind of in that journey where
I was. It was kind of this weird in between
period where I was doing the script consulting and was
(11:53):
kind of deciding like as I personally wanted and I
guess I'm kind of an entrepreneur in that degree deciding
aside wanted to take my career to the next levels
and going into management, and so I just knew who
the experts in the field were, and I was just like,
you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to
find them out. I'm going to seek them out and
find them and talk to them. And so essentially I
just kind of made like a business plan that I
(12:15):
was going to save up certain amounts of money and
like invest in myself to go to their classes and
meet them and start relationships with them. And so that
I think is part of where why I am where
I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was
like I'm gonna do whatever it takes to just kind
of get get in front of these people and meet
them and talk to them and so you know, and
(12:38):
then it's started being crazy that like we I mean,
it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind
of getting into that world with them, like I see
them everywhere. Like I was just with Jen and New York.
We were doing a conference together and I see lead
jessup and like I'm helping Steve with his comedy class
in January. So, I mean, that's how I did it
(12:59):
was I just took the initiative myself and went out,
was like, I want to be associated with the people
who know what they're doing, and I just took the
initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them. Actually,
so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid, I guess.
So I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet,
I think it's made you know, everything a little easier
and a little harder at the same time. And one
of the things that's made a little easier is finding
these people. Because you know, all the people that we
just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did
you did you find them through their websites or did
you bump into them maybe at a conference, cause you know, I.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Bumped into them all at conferences. I mean I knew
people in the industry, and I had just been hearing
about these people, and so like I either attended I mean,
I met them all in person. I made an effort.
And again this is hard if you're not local to
LA because a lot of the people are local to LA.
But I made the effort to go to the conferences
to make sure I went up to them afterwards and
spoke to them. And you know, now I really consider
(14:02):
them friends and colleagues. So I just I mean, I
was truthful. I was like, hey, like I want to
I want to learn from you, like I want to
know what to do. But for people who aren't local
to LA, I mean all these people, Dan Lee, Steve,
John Truby, Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know all these
people have I just say, the best thing that you
can do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts,
(14:25):
they have you know, online seminars, they have these things.
Like these people know what it takes to get to
the next level. I mean they are the experts. And
I say, if you can't meet them in person, like
tweet at them, email them. You know, they do phone consults.
They know that Lee does for sure, and like just
stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely
(14:46):
they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well,
So I mean, you know, you just I think you
just got to put yourself out there and like make
it known, like I always tell the writers I work with,
like make it known within the first five minutes of
a conversation that you want to write and you want
to do this, and this is what your goal is. Like,
I think it's important to speak that step out into
the universe, to like let the world know, because it's
(15:08):
like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it,
you know what I mean. So I think there's a
lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that
that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to
it and app can, you know. So I think that
that's an important aspect of a writing.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding
out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing
in on those people is really important as well.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
And in terms you know, in terms of like I
think one of the questions that the guy asked. There
was a guy that was like, maybe he wasn't local
to LA, but he asked about queering. He's like, is
that my only option? Like I'm not in LA, and like,
you know, I always say, even if you can make
one trip out to LA and go to like one
of the big conferences like Great American Pitchfest or Story
(15:56):
Expo or like I know there's others that are like
American Film Market or any of those things, Like so
many people are at those and just even making face
to face contact for five minutes and handing them your
business card and making a contact, Like that's enough. There
been and of itself to like send a query, and
like agents and managers show up to these things like
(16:18):
to film festivals and all these things. So I think
that a cold query can be a little hard and
difficult in terms of taking things to the next level.
But I'm just like, man, if you can invest and
take one trip out to LA like a year, like
it can do what and you go to the right
event and you know, make sure you talk to the
right people, like it can radically change the trajectory of
(16:40):
your career. Absolutely, one you.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Know, we were talking about you know, you you're you
went to the management side, uh, you know, of the business,
and I wanted to ask you a whitney, what are
some of the things that you know that have you
have seen? And that sort of like is uh, that's
what I'm trying to say, is sort of like a
normal thing that you see, like the most common error
screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Oh, gosh, you know, that's a really tough question because
I think everyone obviously is so individual, but I think
that one of the common common errors that will turn
either an agent or a manager off is just the
way in which they go about contacting them. Actually, like
(17:30):
you really need to research the agent or manager that
you're trying to talk to. I know that one of
the big things among agent and managers often if you're
sending a query letter that you're sending to a lot
of different people, a lot of times, like the person
sending in either the query for their film or their
TV show or their literary novel will sell the agent's
(17:52):
name wrong or spell the manager's name wrong. And that
is like the number one turnoff, Like you're not even
paying attention to what you're doing, you know, So number one,
I think you should paying attention to detail and showing
that you're serious. I think another things that they look for,
like which is crazy, is typos, like they'll forgive them that.
They're like if an email is just chock full of typos,
(18:14):
they're just like people want to write, like what is this?
You know? So I think said those detail oriented things
are one of the things. The other thing is it's
good to be persistent, Like I think it's always good
to follow up with an agent or manager, but you
have to understand that most agents and managers are absolutely
drowning in either scripts or books to read, like drowning
(18:36):
all the time, like you're always playing catch up. And
so a major turnoff is like if you tell someone, hey,
thank you so much for submitting your script to your book,
like expect you know, to hear from me in four
to six weeks. And you know, an agent, an amateur
who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate,
They like, you know, they get antsy and they want
(18:56):
to know. And I totally understand that because I've been there,
But to say start emailing like every day or every
two days, which has totally happened, like have you have
you read my have you read my book? Have you
read my script? Have you done this? Have you done that?
Speaker 5 (19:07):
Like where just I forget it, Like if they.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to drive
agents and managers crazy and they just you know, they
won't respond, like they just won't. They're just like these
people can't be patient, like I'm not you know, I'm not.
So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying
is there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in
terms I guess as behavior or just general manners that
(19:33):
those two minor things can be enough to turn an
agent or a manager off. Unfortunately. I think. So those
are kind of my two two big things I think of,
which aren't even which aren't even material related, which is
like a whole other you know, which is a whole
other thing.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
So those are like actionable items that people can look for,
like don't send a query with typos, don't over you know,
bother the agent's managers. And then there's the material side
of things in terms of the content they send, which
is like a whole different ballgames that we should talk about,
but I don't know how much time we have.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
No, that sounds great if you If you have the time,
I'd love to get into that.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
You have to In terms of like, you know, I
think so to me says super quick. I think in
terms of the content people send, you know some people,
you've got like two types of people. And I don't
mean this negatively at all, but you've got your people
who are just like, my show is great, it's completely original.
It's the next blah blah blah, which is totally awful
to say. People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the
(20:46):
next JK. Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino. It's like,
don't you know they'll say that, And there are things
that it's like, do not compare yourself to the greatest
you know people out there. That's just a no note.
But in terms of like the material, like I think
a lot of it is people just they want to
be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes
new will come to me and they want to be managed,
(21:08):
and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have.
And really it comes to an aspect of like are
these people ready to be is their material ready to
be shopped? And the things that I look for to
make sure that a material, you know, that a that
a either a script or a TV show or a
novel is ready to be shopped. It's like is this
story structure there, because a lot of times it's like
(21:28):
they don't even have, like I'll read through it and
like key components of what makes a story a story
you're missing, Like there's no catalyst. It's like, what's the
insiding incident in this story? Or you know, there is
no Allah's lost moment where the character really comes to
this deep dark place where they have to rise back
to the top again. You know, is that's missing? It's like,
(21:50):
you know, there's nothing I can't manage that now on
my consulting developmental side, like yes, that's what I'll work
with you to fix. But in terms of you know,
are you ready a lot of another thing that will
kill you know, a story or something like that is
really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is one of the hardest
things to write, and when you're reading through a script,
(22:11):
if it's really stilted or unnatural, that's something that will
turn an agent or a manager off when they're skimming
through and reading. So you know, those are the things
that I think you really have to pay attention to.
And that's why the people like Vogler and Grissanti and
John Truby are absolutely like amazing. Like Robert McCaine just
put a book out on dialogue and I read it,
(22:33):
and I mean, this is my business, and I like
consider myself like pretty high up there. Not Robert McKee standard,
but like, you know, I know how to write dialogue.
And I read the book and I was like blown away.
I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of
this step. And I think people sometimes think that writing
dialogue should be an innate ability, Like we all talk,
(22:53):
so we all should be able to write that. But
when you translate that to a script or to a book,
it just, you know, it's hot. And so I think
people the best thing that they can do for themselves
is just practice daily read up on you know, techniques
and ideas from the experts, and just don't give up
(23:14):
because that and just keep working. And I think that
that's like the best thing that you can do. And
how does someone read it before you send it to
an agent or manager, like have it covered, or have
Jen Grassanti or Lee or me or someone you know
take a look at it, because that really helps to
have someone in industry that knows what is people want
know what's out there to make sure you're on the
(23:36):
right track. I mean, I think feedback can be invaluable
if you.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
Get it from the right from the right source.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
And you know when I think a lot of times too.
You know, when you send a script to a agent or
a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right,
you know, it's going to have their assistant read it.
And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this
get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say
(24:04):
they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by
the first page they can they conceive. So okay, so
that is right?
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing
is now for someone like me because I am a
small boutique management firm, like it is me and one
other person's I'm obviously not Circle's confusion. I'm not you know,
mad House. You know I'm not you know CAA, I'm
not one of these big things. So I actually read
the scripts myself. But what is true is this, and
(24:34):
this is the truth people, you, for those of you listening,
the sad thing is this. It's like if you're at
one of those big houses, and this is the problem.
If an assistant or a reader reads the script and
gives it a consider or you know, you know, pushes
it on to their boss. You know, they spend you know,
(24:54):
the assistant spent all weekend reading and if they say
consider or that they're going to send it on to
their boss, that means their boss, the manager itself, is
going to take time out of their day or their
weekend to read it. And if it sucks or it's
awful and their assistant passed it on, guess what happens
to that assistant.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
They're bone, They're fired.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
And so honestly, assistance, unless it is just absolutely cream
of the crop amazing, what the sad reality.
Speaker 5 (25:23):
Is is assistants are Assistants are scared to pass.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
It on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing,
because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I
don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know
that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms,
so you just have to be So what I guess
it's to say is like it's just that's how it is, unfortunately.
And so for me though, like being a small manager,
(25:49):
like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and
develop people. And that's why I think the cold query
is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes
it isn't always about the content that the writer has.
It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
(26:10):
like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I
can sit down with a person and usually know within
less than five minutes if I'm going to work with
them or not, just based on their personality. So that's
why I tell people, if you can get in front
of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket because
they're going to be working with you. And so even
(26:31):
though your content may not be the best, if they
can tell that you are a go getter and a
talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to
take a chance on you. And so that's why it's
just downright scary to send something in cold like CAAA,
Chris Serve, any of those big boys just because that's
how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can
(26:52):
meet those agency managers that work at those places at
like industry events, then you're in a better, a much
much better better scenario, you.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Know, because you know, it's like I've had people in
here before and they would say, you know, getting a manager,
getting an agent, or even a manager more so than
an agent, but it's about a relationship cause you're going
to be working that for that person for for months
or years to come.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
I always say it is totally like a marriage. And
you know what's a crazy thing is is I've talked
to people before where I've been meeting them kind of
see if we're going to work together, and I've even
had to be like, look, it's not even about your content,
like because honestly, I feel like I feel like every
agent and every manager kind of has like their specialty
(27:37):
or their niche where they feel most comfortable and so
like mine at the current moment is television. Like I
feel like I have much more connections and much more
understanding of the te re world than I do of
the film world. Do I know producers and people in
the film world, guess, but I just don't feel as
comfortable in that space. So when someone comes to me
and they ask me what I consider managing that all
(27:59):
they have as features, Like I sit there and I'm like, look,
I'm just gonna shoot straight with you, like your step
is great, but honestly, I just may not be the
right manager for you, only because I don't think I'm
going to be able that I have what you know,
that I have the contacts to shop you in the
right in the right places, and I don't want to
do a disservice to you knowing that I probably am
(28:23):
not going to be the best fit. So I'm just
modest with them and say like, look, it's nothing about
your your ability or your talent, Like I just can
tell that we're not going to be a good fit,
or like I've pulled several people like you're great, that
I'm just not passionate about this particular project. And to
work together, like you guys, you have to be in pandem,
like you have to be on the same page. You
(28:44):
have to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight
for you and advocate for you one hundred percent. And
so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like it's
just it really is. It's like a weird form of
dating in a way, like you really just have to
make sure that you click and that you gel together
because you really are in this weird writing marriage, you know.
(29:06):
So I think that that's been an interesting thing. I've
learned that I've turned people down who are really talented.
I just know that I'm not the best fit for them.
So it's hard, it's really hard.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of
the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had
a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know,
I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you
mind answering a few questions right now?
Speaker 4 (29:29):
Sure?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Absolutely, you know, actually just telling you with what you
just said. The first question is do I need more
than one script to approach a manager?
Speaker 4 (29:41):
Yes, absolutely you do. Generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
When you come to a manager, lead Jessa, this is
one of the main nuggets that I learned from her
back in the day. You really need what's called a
writer's portfolio, and so generally what that entails is you
really need to have even if you're not a TV person.
This is generally across the board just what a screenwriter
needs to have. You need to have a really strong
(30:16):
TV pilot. You need to have a really strong spec
pilot for something currently or not spec pilot, but that's
script for something currently on air. So I tell people,
you know, look, get watch television. Kind of pick your
top ten. Well, I call a hit list of TV
shows you'd really love to write for. Then kind of
(30:37):
knowing what your talent is, narrow that down to like five,
and then pick one of them and do a really
good spec because you know, people at the networks and
people you know at the production companies want to see
that you can mimic the tone and style of someone
else's work, and even at the studios for features, because
(30:57):
you know they do work for hire for real rice
all the time for movies, but they want to keep
it in kind of that same tone. So they want
to see that you can somewhat do that and then
also have a really really strong feature And if you
have more than that, then that great. But three is
kind of the minimum. And then you know people coming
(31:18):
to me being like, well, I have five features and
three you know, three TV pilots. What do I do?
And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good
indication in your gut which went through your this, you
know or the strongest, like you need to take those really,
you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them,
and then use those to send out kind of as
(31:39):
your portfolio. So absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one
TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air
in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming, and
then a really strong original feature that you've written.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
And also Withney, I think we I should probably mention too,
and maybe I should have us question before, but you know,
there would you briefly just describe, you know, the difference
between a manager and an agent, because you know, I
sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an obsession
about getting an agent when really it should probably get
a manager. Correct.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want,
you can go to my website, I actually just did
a four part series on representation, one on one explaining
all of this, but to really do a short recap. So,
an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate and
execute the sale of your work. So they come in
whin their business to be done, so they are the
(32:36):
ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent,
and so they really don't do They may read your scripts,
but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't
going to take the time to like read it, give
notes all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere
from thirty to fifty clients on their roster, depending on
where they are in the life of their kind of career,
(33:01):
so they can take on a lot more people because
they literally are just doing the business side. The one
thing also you need to know is the agents are
not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is
executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the
flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote unquote
(33:22):
procure employment for their client. They're not allowed to like
quote unquote get you a job like doing anything per se.
But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they
cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent's role.
So what the manager does is the manager really is
(33:46):
all about developing your career. They are the ones that
usually go about helping you network and get meetings, like
I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a
few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
They're the one who are going to really organize and
schedule those meetings for you and get you in the
(34:07):
door a lot of times. Now, what's different though, as
a manager can produce, which in some senses is good
because your manager is way more invested in that sense.
So they also take ten percent of whatever happened generally
because they're the ones doing the heavy listing in the
footwork of like helping you develop your concepts and reading
(34:30):
and giving you notes and like really involved in the
day to day. So yes, at the beginning of your career,
if you can snag a manager like that's probably one
of the best things you can do. And a lot
of people don't even have agents. They can in lieu
of an agent, so they can just use an entertainment lawyer,
which is just the same an entertainment attorney, which is
just the same thing. But what's great was an agent.
(34:53):
I'll say this caveat which great was an Asian. If
you have an agent at CIA or one of the
bigger firms, what's great is if they have someone else
in their agency like actresses and directors and all that.
The great thing is they can package you know, material
and that will help. So it's like if you have
your script, but then they have actresses, A, B, and
(35:14):
fee at their firm that are wanting to attach, and
then they also have this director and then they can
take it as one did package. That definitely, you know,
incentivizes the sale. So those are the two big things.
Agents licensed by the state negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager
is not allowed to do that, but they can produce.
(35:34):
And they're the day to day development, getting you meetings,
helping you network, helping you brand yourselves, helping you write,
just kind of grooming you for your career. So that's
the short explanation. I hope that helps.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information,
especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also
I hear, you know, people will always will always talk
about that, and you know, I think a lot of
times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's
almost like the whole agent thing.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean,
I guess it's at your management for it, but it's
I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind
of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on
the agency sides in the management side to say package,
but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong,
so who I'll put that at the Carriot that. I'm
(36:31):
not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at the
moment that's what it's telling me. But may be wrong,
so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check.
But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side
than the management side. Did they do that?
Speaker 3 (36:45):
If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Whitney.
I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guy's this year.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
People, I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't
know what to say, so so yeah, So that's the
differences between agents and managers. So yeah, I think management.
I mean, I love it. I just I just love
being a part of the It's a sickness, really loving
loving to be a part of the process so much.
(37:09):
People are like every day it's so funny. I'm just like,
why do I do this? And then I'm like, when
like a breakthrough happens, I'm like.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
Yes, this is the best.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
I mean, it's just like it's it's such a crazy, crazy,
crazy existence.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you
know what I mean, It's like the h the highest
of highs and lows.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
But the thing is, you know, and that's why, you know,
I guess that some of people can look on it
as being shady, even though I don't think it's shady.
That's I haven't given up the consulting side of my business.
Can you. People come to me and they're like, I
want to be managed. I know that they're just not
there yet. So I offer consulting services. And I always say,
you know, if you don't want to stay with me,
because you know, you think that's odd. Like I'm totally
(37:51):
willing to, you know, send people to several of my
different colleagues. But like the consulting side is just that
I love so much too because I love of the
people that are that need the expertise of an industry,
you know, you know, an industry like expert or whatever,
and I love being that person to help teach them
and all that. So it's kind of a it's kind
(38:13):
of a crazy, crazy thing. I love doing both have
so I feel like I can get away with it
because my management, you know, cluster is so small at
the moment that I still can help the people that
are the up and coming aspiring writers. So I really,
I really still enjoy doing that so much too.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Yeah, I could tell you know, you really enjoy doing it,
and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know,
you have to have people that really enjoy this actually
out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
I love it so much, and I think some people
get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I
just find it all so fascinating, like the way that
the human mind works and the things that people can
come up with. I'm just like, I mean, I like visibly,
like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my
face just lights up. I'm like, oh, like yes, I'm
just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some of
the stuff that some of my consulting clients are pitching
(39:09):
at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait for
them to pitch it because I just get so excited
for them because the ideas they're so freaking, you know, amazing.
So we'll just we'll just see it's this fun, exciting world.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
I actually have a few of the questions I I'm
going to try to answer or I've started trying to
ask these last two. So uh Whitney other This is
by at Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some
of your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider?
Was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address
this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it.
So the query is a really test thing. Like to him,
I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and
you don't live in LA, we'll be.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Right back after a word from our sponsor and now
back to the show.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
I would really just make sure there is a process
to the query. So I would make sure and there's
like an actual format to a query letter for film
and TV. So I would look up or buy a
book on how to specifically query your book or your
film or your TV show. Second, if there's a specific
place that you know that you want to send it, like,
(40:27):
I would research those agencies or those firms and check
their submission requirements because oftentimes certain places are closed to
unsolicited queries and it's referral only, so you need to
check and make sure that they're open to unsolicited queries,
and yeah, for someone who doesn't live in LA, that
(40:50):
may be your only shot. But like I said, it
is not super expensive to get to LA these days,
I feel like, and it's just like if you can
save up and come to one of them or one
kind of industry saying it can and again I would
probably say Great American Pitchfest something like that is like
one of the best things that you can invest in
(41:10):
because you can get in front of like a hundred
management companies and producers who you can pitch to, and
you know, it's just it can change, it can change
your life. Like honestly, so in terms of a query,
there's nothing wrong with them. I take unsolicited queries. You
can submit soon in my website. I know that a
(41:31):
few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe Circle of Confusion.
But you know, the other thing I would do to
honestly for a person like that is reach out to
people on Twitter and ask if they have managers or
agents and like if you can get a referral, like
if you can send it to a This is another
way in which is a good point. If you can
find another writer who's currently represented and you send them
(41:54):
there your query first and have them look at over
and if they like it, they may be willing to
pass it on to their agent or manager. And that's
a way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So you feel
like you have to find these backdoor ways in So
if he can find someone on Twitter or Facebook or
LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like that
might be a great way to go too, if he
(42:14):
can't get to La.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter
is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time.
I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because
almost everyone now is on Twitter.
Speaker 5 (42:27):
Oh, I mean Twitter is absolutely amazing. Like it's crazy
to me, like.
Speaker 4 (42:31):
About how many people I've met on Twitter, Like I've
gotten a few.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
Clients off off of Twitter.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I think it is insane, And I think to the
screenwriting world, it really is the best social media platform
for connecting for sure? Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way.
I think it is the top one, honestly.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
So that's what I.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Would say, is like cold query, make sure that they
take submissions, if not come to an event and if
not signed another writer who is repped and see failed
look at your stuff and check it out, or several
of the last one is several of the if you
can afford to hire one of the consultants. They all,
I mean, we all know people, and so if they
(43:10):
come across something that's really amazing, like they aren't, they
will be willing to pass it on as well. So
I mean, I think. And the other thing is contests,
Like if you enter contests and you place in a contest,
all those lists go to agents and managers the people
that place. So that's another way to break in for sure,
and so that may be easier than querying. Honestly, it's
(43:30):
just you know, applying for a you know, entering into
one of the many many contests out there.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is
they want to see what you're your writing can do
up against other people's writing. And you know I've heard
that where they want to see, you know, hey, why
aren't they these people going in this competition? You know,
why aren't they you know, doing something, why aren't they
going that route?
Speaker 4 (43:52):
Say that's a good that's another good way if you're
not in Hollywood, because I know they takes, you know,
they it doesn't matter where you live, you can always
is enter those contests for sure.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
So Whitney, you know, we've been talking for about you know,
forty minutes now. So in closing, is there anything that
we did get a chance to discuss that you may
have wanted to or a sort of you know, anything
you wanted to say to put a peer at the
ennis whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (44:16):
No, I mean, I just I think that I want
to tell people that truly, if they set their minds
out to do it, it's amazing that if they just
keep at it, keep meeting people, keep writing, things can
happen for you. The two things I say, the two
piece of writing are patience and persistence. So I think
(44:36):
it just really is a journey. And if you're patient
yet persistent and just keep at it, you know, I
truly believe things will happen for people. And I think
it really is half relationships, half who you know, and
half you know craft and how well you write. So
I just always tell people always be nice to everybody
you know you meet, make an effort to be friends
(44:59):
with them, beyond on just wanting to sell, you know,
sell them or pitch them your idea and just continue
to really practice the craft of writing and write because
you love it, not because you want to make money
off of it. I mean, I think some people you
know can make money off of it, and that's the great,
but it's just like, right, because you love it and
that's what you really want to do. And I think
(45:20):
the money will come if you go, you know, look
at it as a business and go about the right
way of approaching it. So those are just kind of
my last do you nuggets as ice and encouragement. Just
keep at it. Just patience and persistence is the key,
and being nice to people and it'll all, you know,
hopefully it's all into place.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice
to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney,
And I'm sure you get this all the time. I
get a lot of people who immediately follow me or
they'll send me an email to my website and right
away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can
you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like,
I don't even know who you are. I don't even
know what the movie is, right, Like, why don't you.
Speaker 4 (46:05):
Yeah, And I'm telling you I And what I really
appreciate is even the writers that I know once they
but they actually just like act me out for coffee
and like we go to coffee and just get to
know each other before they make you know, a certain
ask or whatever. I mean, it really is about just
getting to know other writers and building those relationships and
you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start asking
(46:31):
favors of them. I just think there's so much power
and acknowledging success just to be like days, you like
do a great job at podcasting, like thank you so
much for the for what you put out there in
the Twitter universe and social media at large, and started
that conversation that way, and then maybe after a few days,
like you know, it's been so great talking to you.
I was just curious. It's you know, maybe we could
(46:52):
do X, Y and V together and like have something
to offer back to them, like if you, like I said, like,
if you're going to offer to like reach you know,
ask somebody to do this, be like, hey, in return,
I'm more than happy to do X, Y and Z
for you in the future, like see if you can
barter or something like that makes it a lot, a lot,
a lot more acceptable to me that people would be
(47:14):
willing if they know that you're also willing to give
on your end. So I think it's definitely a give
and take. And the writing community is such a great place.
I just love it so much. So, I mean, that's
what I always say, be nice to people. The first
rule of everything. It will it will come back around
in a great, great way.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
If you can do that, You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney,
Where can you will find you online?
Speaker 4 (47:38):
They can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and
then they can sign me across all social media at
W davisliterary dot com. I mean, well at W. Davis Literary. Yeah,
the handle on Twitter, Pebook and LinkedIn and everywhere else.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
I guess, yeah, and everyone I'm going to link to
that in the show notes. You know can always find
me at Dave Bullis dot com. The show notes will
be on Dave Bulls dot com and of course follow
me on Twitter at Dave Underscore Bullets. Whitney Davis, I
want to say thank you so much for coming on
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (48:11):
Thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
Oh, I'm glad you had fun because this is your
first podcast. I'm glad you know you had fun on it.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Yes, it was amazing. Thank you.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney. And you know, if
you ever want to come back on the show, please
just let me know. I mean more than happy to
have you back on.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
I would love it. We'll have to figure something else
to something else to talk about, but for.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
We just do networking. I love talking about networking for riders.
It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
Speaker 3 (48:45):
Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about
how I how I network when I go on other
people's podcasts.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
So we should do it.
Speaker 5 (48:51):
It'll be fun.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, we could do like a dual networking fabe. Pretty cool.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
Oh, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you, ay time,
take care, bye bye bye.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at indie film muscle
dot com Ford Slash eight fourteen.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
If you have it already.
Speaker 2 (49:16):
Please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and
leave a good review for the show. It really helps
us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
to you soon.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
Indie Film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
E F I L M h U S T l
E dot com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!