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Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight fifteen,
Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
Roman Polanski.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur How to turn
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That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
My guest has worked with some of the best directors ever,
including David Lynch, Paul Verhoven, and Milo's film Rman. My
latest guest latest movie, Excuse Me, is, which in which
he directed, was actually shot in ninete eighty four and
it's finally being released now. Think about that he started
filming this when I was born. It just shows you
have to be in the long haul, it really does.
(02:15):
And that movie Dark seductions will be out October eleventh
on VOD and mo OD with guests Greg Travis. Hey, Gregor,
thanks off coming on the show.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Buddy, My Pleasure, Day, My pleasure. Anytime I can talk
to a fellow filmmaker, I'm down.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Well, you know, I appreciate it. Greg. You know, I
looked at your IMDb. Watch that I knew of you
before I looked at your IMDb because I recognize you
from a couple of different roles. And you know, before
I start talking about that and we get in knowledge
your you know, your your very lengthy IMDb with some
very impressive credits. I just want to start off by
asking about your background, and that is I just want
(02:55):
to ask how did you get started in the film industry?
You know, did you always want to act when you
were a kid. You know, so it's pretty much I
just want to know, is you know how did you
get started?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
Well, I was in high school. I got a Super
eight camera, started using my dad's home movie camera, and
then I got one of the sound cameras, and so
I started making these little short Super eight films my
junior year and then my high school year I actually
made a feature link Super eight movie called Joe Dynamite,
and I showed it at the High school theater and
(03:29):
I was able to get to the theater for free,
and you know, work things out to where I actually
made my money back and actually made a little profit
on the whole venture. And I thought, Wow, this is easy.
I can do this. Little did I know what I
was in for. You know. Then I came out to
(03:49):
Hollywood and went to film school. And while I was
going to film school, I started auditioning at the comedy
clubs and then kind of got a stand up career
going and got a few TV shows and started working
the clubs and I did that for about twenty years,
and then I moved into the acting direction in the
mid nineties and got a few big movies and then
(04:09):
that kind of helped launch my acting career and did
about forty five films in the last fifteen years or so.
And now I'm on my third act and trying to
get back to what I originally wanted to do here,
which was be a director and a filmmaker. And you know,
I mean I've written all these years, and I've made
(04:30):
a lot of shorts all these years. But in the
last eight or nine years, I've really tried to focus
in and you know, make some movies. So I've got
three features, Night Creep, Midlife, and now Dark Seduction that
are finished features and that are getting out there. And
Dark Seduction is being released October eleventh on VOD North America,
(04:51):
VOD and pay per view, And so I'm super excited
about that because it took me about thirty years to
complete that movie, which I'm not bragging about. It's kind
of embarrassing, to be honest with you, because it should
have been finished, you know, at least twenty years ago.
(05:12):
But I ran up into I ran into a lot
of obstacles and a lot of problems with this particular
film that you know, stopped me from finishing it. Every
time I would go back to try to finish it,
something horrific would happen and just stop me in my tracks.
Or sometimes I'd run out of money and I'd have
(05:33):
to you know, regroup, you know. So it seemed to
be an ongoing pattern in the process of the whole
post production thing. But you know, it's one of those
things you just, you know, you try what you can.
And then when I got back to it the final time,
I was able to get everything back and finally finish
(05:56):
it up. So I'm really happy about that.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, you know, Greg, I understand completely where you're coming
from about projects, you know, stalling out and having issues.
You know, I've been there before, you know, whether you
know it's it's you know, different you know, personalities, uh,
you know, not agreeing on set, or different producers you know,
not agreeing, uh you know, or or even you know
sometimes I mean, for instance, Greg, I had one time,
(06:21):
I had an editor who every time I asked to
see a kind of the movie, he would say, oh, yeah,
you know, it's don't going well you listen to that,
And I say, well, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna come
up and see a cut of it. And he would
always have an excuse, and finally he, you know, he
has to admit. He's like, listen, I have been working
on it at all. I'm and he's like, you know,
I'm sorry. He goes, yeah, So I I understand completely
(06:41):
what you mean. But you know, I do want to
talk more about Dark Seduction, but you know I would
be you know, I again, you have such an extensive
IMDb resume. I just want to sort of take a
step back and talk about some of your credits. I mean,
you have worked with some of the best directors you know,
not only going today, but some of the directors that
(07:03):
have you ever ever lived. I mean, you've worked with
David Lynch, Paul Vehoven, You've worked with bobcat Goldthwaite, You've
Bob Rasselson, who did.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Five Easy Pieces, a lot of Jack Nicholson films. Yeah,
that was a thrill to work with him. And a
Milosh Foreman who did the Andy Kaufman movie Man on
the Moon, And Yeah, I was lucky in the fact
that of being a filmmaker and an actor, I had
studied films all of my life and was a huge
movie goer when I was a kid. So I had
(07:34):
seen just about everything any of all these guys had done,
especially when it came out on video. I rented everything,
and my friend in New York had a video store,
so I could watch anything that was available. And so,
you know, I've always studied film and always loved it.
And so when I would meet these directors and go
(07:55):
in for the final audition, I would start talking to
him about their obscure movie, the one movie that no
one knew about. That's the one I would talk to
them about.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
And they love.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
That, you know, they absolutely love that because like they
don't get a chance to discuss it. So it was like,
you know, kind of the inside scoop on some of
their obscure films I would like talk to them about,
you know. But David was great. I didn't really have
too much to say. He was in the middle of
shooting and the cast character brought me over to him,
and you know, he just said, great, you're right, this
(08:28):
is great, you look great, and it'll be perfect, and
so that was about it. So you know, I got
lucky on that one. And he was a whole lot
of fun to work with. He's really detailed oriented. He
put the blood on my face himself, and he you know,
he was like really had ideas about every little movement
(08:49):
and every little thing, and it was all very well
planned out and very well thought out. You know, he
knew what he wanted, and you know, you never know
exactly what you want. I mean, you got an idea
con set to the scene and how it should go,
and you try to explain it to the actors and
then you just hope for the best. And that's basically
what every director does, and then you tweak it as
(09:10):
you go along. He said, well, maybe you don't, you know,
you don't scream it that much here. Maybe you bring
it down a little bit there. Maybe you don't hit
him with the gun there. You know that kind of thing,
you know.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
So, but.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Yeah, I've always been As a matter of fact, the
eraser Head was kind of the first midnight movie that
I saw when I came out here, and it just
disturb disturbed me to no end. I just didn't quite
understand it, but I felt I mean, it felt it.
I felt there was something really going on here, but
I didn't quite you know, I didn't understand what was happening,
(09:46):
but it it moved me. I'll put it that way.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You know, it's funny because I took somebody to see
Lost Highway and he had never seen it before.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And when he left the theater, he goes, you know,
Davey goes that movie. I'm not sure what was happening,
but he goes, I'm very interested, and he said, you know,
a couple of days later on he texted me and
he goes. You know, I'm still thinking about Lost Highway.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had some really fun stuff in it,
and some really creepy stuff too. You know. I always
thought as if it as a revenge dream, you know,
by the Bill Pullman character, and you know, that's sort
(10:42):
of I think what it was. You know, he becomes
this young guy in his dream and gets revenge on
the older guys who messed him up with his girlfriend,
you know, or his wife. So at least that's kind
of the way I take it. And then he did
that same sort of thing and in his next movie
(11:03):
it was going to be the TV show that got
so many awards, what the hell's the name of it. Yeah,
he did the same kind of thing, only with women.
It was the same sort of like switching characters and
you know, becoming another person kind of a thing.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
You know, Yeah, I know exactly what I mean. It's
funny because now he you know, when we saw him,
when when he he you know, he was actually there
and he introduced twin or sorry, he introduced the Lost
Highway and he said and people were asking, are you
working on anything else? And he said no. That about
a couple of days later, he announces that he's back
with Twin Peaks season three on Showtime. Oh yeah, it
(11:41):
was just uh. I was like, wow, if he had
only you know, but uh, but it was just amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
I've just a funny little story real quick. I actually
tried to get him on for one hundredth episode on
this podcast, and I actually missed him by a couple
of I guess maybe a couple of days. His his
manager actually said that he's off shooting. Uh, he's in
three or Twin Peaks, and he's like, you know, he's
all he's doing right now. So maybe when he comes back.
But I was like, you know, I mean that guy,
(12:06):
I mean, he's just you know, phenomenal. I mean, but
you know, so I wanted to ask Greg, is you know,
when you're working with somebody you know like Lynch, or
you're working with somebody like Paul Vhoven, you know, what
are some of the biggest takeaways that you think you've had.
Do you think there's something that there's there's like one
constant that you know, sort of maybe strength that all
(12:26):
these directors share that makes them, you know, who they are.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Well, they all have a kind of definite look that
they're trying to achieve with the film itself, the way
they shoot it, the way they you know, are going
to cut it. The hardest thing I think for any
director is to get a mood, a certain type of
tone that can carry through the throughout the film. I
(12:52):
think David Lynz that's one of his strengths. He really
knows how to set a tone, a dark, ominous kind
of creepy tone to the thing and keep that, you know.
I mean it's not constantly throughout the film, but it's
still there. And well, he's really great at that. And
every other director has their strength, Like Veroven is a
(13:14):
kind of a very strong, just in your face imagery
that just really sticks with you and really hits you
in the chest, you know, very entertaining, very fun and
just keeps coming at you, you know. And I love
that kind of stuff. I love, you know, strong imagery
and strong choices. And you know, as an actor, when
(13:37):
you work with these kind of guys, you just have
to kind of like go with your confidence and come
in with the strongest ideas that you can think of
and just you know, know that that's right, and not
worry about exactly what you think they want. But within
the script and with what you think it needs, that's
(13:58):
what you give them, and they'll, you know, if it's
not what they want or if they want to tweak it.
But most of the time they really liked what I did,
and uh, they were very happy with it. So I
was really lucky to be able to work with those guys.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
You know, yeah, you know, Greg, that was actually gonna
be My next question was, you know, as an actor,
you know, you know what what is sort of like
you know what you're you're bringing. You know, obviously you're
bringing you know, your own unique skills and talents to
the role. And you know they you know, they're they're
directing you obviously in this in this particular role. And
so one of my question was is what are some
(14:35):
of the biggest takeaways that they that they when you're
working with them, that that you have used in your
own projects, you know, sort of like something that you've
learned from you know, Zack Snyder or Vhoven, you know
that you and Rob Zombie, you know, something that you've
taken and sort of put into your own films.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
They all do different things, like Zack Snyder does various
speed takes where he'll do a shot, you know, twenty times,
and he'll do it a little bit differently each time,
and I think that's kind of interesting. I haven't been
able to use that exactly, but I liked the idea
(15:14):
of doing it a little different each time instead of
trying to do it the same wage time. He does
it a little differently each time. And I think I've
heard that Ridley Scott does that same kind of thing.
He'll move the camera an inch or two over with
each progressive take so that he gets a little bit
different angle and a little bit different look, you know,
(15:36):
And I thought that's pretty pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
You know. The film.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
The last film that I, you know, shot and put
out there was Midlife, which was a very Cassavetti's type
of a look. I shot at long lens and then
the wide shots were like a forty millimeter or so.
It was kind of a wide and that's what I
was going for, was a very I kind of very
realistic Cassavetti's type of look. And so that's kind of
(16:07):
what I was trying to capture. And so I would
go back and study all of his films and see
what he was doing exactly, and they're all a little different,
and they're all shot a little different. There is no
one Cassavetti's look, but he does do long lens close
ups and pretty tight close ups when he does them,
And so I use that technique, and you know, you
(16:29):
just learned, You just pick up different directorial techniques from
working with all these different directors and then also what
you know, working as a director for many many meaning
short films and theater and all kinds of different things
in my own shows and stand up, because in stand
up you're really directing yourself, you know, I mean you're
(16:49):
really sort of like jumping out of your skin and saying, well,
this look like and what would that look like? And
you kind of have to have a second nature about
what would make an audience laugh or what would make
an audience And you develop those skills as you go along.
And I think that I've been able to do that,
and now I'm ready to really apply all that knowledge
(17:10):
to making movies. You know.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Yeah, you know that's a good point, Greg, And you
know that's actually what I wanted to sort of segue
into right now, was, uh, you know, just looking at
your IMDb page, you know you've you've written five pieces
and you know you've directed four and I just want
to ask you know, your first you know IMDb credit,
you know that you have is Night Creep, And I
(17:33):
want to ask you know you made this in two
thousand and three. It was also written by you, So
I wanted to ask Greg. You you've said in the
intro that you know you want to sort of want
to go back to this because this is why you
you got into this was you wanted to make your
own films, right? So was it was it the right
sort of time and place, so to speak to make
Night Creep? And what I mean by that is, did
(17:55):
you you sort of have the like a sort of
like a small window or maybe an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
At that point, I'd hooked up with this, you know,
this guy who's gonna invest in it and who's gonna, you know,
put the money. And so I wrote a pretty I
wrote a script. It was what I thought was pretty commercial,
and actually it wasn't very commercial at all. But I
(18:21):
was kind of wrote a psychological horror film in a
very kind of Lynchian David Lynchian kind of way, to
where we don't really know what's going on half the
movie and we're waiting to find out. But at least
in my movie, I do let the cat out of
the bag at the end of the film, and I
do explain somewhat what was happening, even though there's a
(18:41):
few things left in the air, as oppose to David Lynch,
who doesn't ever explain anything, and you're just like left
walking out of the theater and what the fuck was
that all about? But you know, you have to study
his films and then you know, kind of come to
some conclusions on your own. But that's what makes some fun,
you know. But yeah, I just had I had a
(19:04):
winner of opportunity, and then of course that investor pulled
out at the last minute, and then I had to
scory around with some of my own money, and so
a few other people that I knew put a little
money into it, and then we were able to kind
of pull it together and do it. But you know,
I had made Dark Seduction back in the mid eighties,
and I actually felt really really confident at that time
(19:27):
because I'd been doing a lot of shorts leading up
to that, and I had a very specific look. And
the partner that I was working with shot at and
he understood what we were going for, and so the
look of Dark Seduction I was pretty much satisfied with.
I mean, there's a lot you could go back and say, well,
I could have done this, I could have done that,
but I, for the most part, I got what I
(19:47):
was trying to get, you know, and there's always things
you could have done better. And some of the shots
we did were out of focus and didn't come out,
which was a shame, but you just, you know, you
work with what you got.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And so then all of that time I would go,
you know, be thinking that I was going to come
back and finish Dark Seduction, and then after that that
would lead to another film. So when I made Night Creep,
I had just gotten to the place where I just
had to do something else and it couldn't depend on,
you know, finishing Dark Seduction for that one, I just
had to you know, start from scratch and do something new.
(20:33):
And so it has some of the similar themes running
through it. There's some lesbianism and there's some you know
kind of like creepiness that's similar to Dark Seduction in
a way, but it's not about vampires or anything. It's
about a creepy landlord that comes into the squirrel's room
at night while she's sleeping, and we don't know if
(20:56):
it's a dream or if it's reality, or exactly what's
going on because she takes a drug and so we
think the night creep drug might be causing her to
have these hallucinations, and so that's part of the plot.
But it can out pretty good. It's a lot of fun,
you know, but Dark Seduction is the one that really
(21:20):
everybody seems to be responding to. The premiere was a
huge success, and the audience loved it, and everybody's really
really excited about it, and you know, they really really
like it. So it's kind of a weird hybrid of
a nineteen forties detective film and an eighties lesbian vampire film.
(21:43):
And we're not sure if the vampires are really vampires
or if they're just badass chicks that think they're vampires
and go around doing these things, and so there's that
mystery and there's that angle of it, and you know,
it's just a really odd, kind of weird, little cool
(22:06):
cult movie that you know, took me forever to finish,
but I'm glad I did because the technology has gotten
so much better now. It made it so much. It's
now it's much slicker, and the sound and the music
and everything about it is much better now, having finished
it this past year than it would have been if
I would have finished it twenty years ago or thirty
(22:28):
years ago. You know.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah, you know that, Greg, That was actually what I
was going to ask you also, was you know, since
you started making that in the eighties, you know, like
you said, you started that in the eighties. You know,
the camera technology has you know, just you know, gone
through so many evolutions. You know, you know now you
can you can go out now, and you know, our
phone is a camera. And now also you know, there's
cameras out that cost as much as the house, you know,
(22:51):
and you know, it's amazing this this amount of technology.
So I wanted to ask, you know, did did you,
you know, use any of the of the new cameras
section Is it sort of put to maybe shoot some
new scenes or no?
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Now, I shot everything we shot I did in eighty
four and eighty five on sixteen milimeters black and white,
and when I did a two K transfer from the negative,
it really really I mean it's a little grainy. I
mean it's you know, it's grainy in certain areas, but
it really looks fantastic. The two K transfer just brought
(23:26):
out all the imagery and brought out all the little details,
and I couldn't have asked for a better quality, you know,
print of it. It's much better than if I'd have
made a film print because we have more control with
the digital transfer, you know, and it is sharper than
a film print. I mean, it is a little bit sharper,
(23:48):
So I got everything, you know, And unfortunately, the negative
have been setting around for a long time, so even
though they cleaned it a couple of times and we
had it sonically cleaned, there's still a little us here
and there that was embedded in the negative. So, you know,
it gives it kind of an old you know, TCM,
you know, a little bit of an old quality that
(24:10):
you know, kind of makes it even cooler, you know.
I mean, nobody's complained about the little specks that are
on a few of the scenes or you know that
pop up from time to time, but it kind of
gives it an old feel to it, which is kind
of neat too, you know.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Yeah, you know, Greg, when I I think I either
I saw still I believe watched the trailer. Also, it
kind of reminds me of Dark City in a way
because you said it was like a nineteen forties, you know,
detective House with the nineteen eighties, it reminds me. I
don't if you've ever seen the film Dark City, but
in a way it reminds me a little bit of
that film. Was that a color? Belm though?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Was Dark City a color like the Canadian film?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Yeah? It was I think Valkilmer or no if I
was about Koma, but I'm I forget actually who.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
Was in ITAs and it was in a lot of
strip joint scenes. He was like a bouncer and a
strip joint or something. Was that the one you're talking
about Dark City?
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, it was by It was directed by Alex pro
pro Vadis round Huh.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Child, there might be one I'm confusing it with, but yeah,
it's it's it's definitely a dark and war you know,
and uh, That's kind of what I'm going for with this.
You know that that forties in war that like had
the tough, you know, square jaw detective that was drinking
(25:32):
and smoking all the way through the film, I kind
of a Bogart type character, but a little bit more,
a little bit more tougher and bigger, and you know,
able to take a little bit more punishment than even Bogart.
So I found this actor comedian named Tyler Horn who
was perfect for the role, and so I just didn't
even have a casting session. I just asked him if
(25:53):
he wanted to do it, because I knew he'd be
great in it. And he really is funny, he's he's
quite a the perfect kind of dick tracy looking character.
So it worked out really well.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
So Greg, you know, coming from an acting background, do
you do you feel that you know that was sort
of like sort of your unfair advantage because that was
your biggest strength because you you know, you've worked with
all these directors. You also yourself, phons are an actor,
so you're able to sort of, you know, talk to
these actors, maybe you want to stand them in a
different way that maybe most directors don't.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
You know, if you know what I mean, Well, it's
you know, part of it is the casting of the actor.
And then you know, sometimes you get into a situation
where you know you've got really good improv actors, and
you would be an idiot not to let them improvise.
And some directors are not, you know, savvy to that.
(26:47):
They they want to stick to the script verbatim, and
they don't know when to expand their idea and to
take advantage of a talented improvise, a talented actor who
can improvise. And even if you don't use it in
the film, sometimes you just go you just let it
happen and you like play with the ideas. And I
(27:10):
think improvisation is a really good technique because you've got
the idea in the script, you know where you're going
with it. You know, let them play with the lines
a little bit. As long as the information you need
to drive the plot is in there, then you can, like,
you know, you can go off script a little bit
and play with the ideas and you never know, you
might just use one of those lines in the editing,
(27:30):
or you might use a couple of little of those bits,
And a lot of times it's better than what you
had in mind in the script because you can't always
imagine it until you get there. And then when you
get there and you see what you've got to work with,
go ahead, and work with it, go ahead and expand
the idea, you know, and explore it a little bit.
I mean, I think that's the key to really good
(27:51):
filmmaking is to explore the ideas once you get there,
you know.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yeah, I concurrk Greg. You know, the more I study
in the more where you know, I apply these things,
the more I find, especially in my writing. You know,
the more you expand and explore and stay curious about
these ideas, you know, the more they're able to flow.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah, And it's you know, it's tricky because I did
a lot of improv in Midlife, and the first cut
of it was like two and a half hours long,
and I thought, you know, that was a pretty good cut,
but I was wrong. I ended up taking like forty
minutes out of it and kept whittling it down until
I got it where it was, at its basic essence,
(28:35):
and it was just what I needed, but not too much.
It was just enough to tell the story. And that's
what you try to go for, is just the essence
of what you need to tell the story.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You know, people like.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
You know, there's a lot of directors who get a
little indulgent, and I think the big trick is not
to let the line of tension go. You know, that's
the most important thing in a film. If you look
at all the classics and all the orson Welles films,
he was very adamant about keeping the line of tension
in there, you know, which is driving the story, and
(29:11):
also keeping the audience interested as to what's going to
happen at the end of this story, what's going to
happen to these characters. You know. But when you lose
that and you veer off and you go into different
places for a long period of time that don't have
anything to do with the story, it can really derail
the train, you know, it can really throw you off
(29:32):
and can throw your audience off. So you really have
to keep that in mind. The line of tension, I
think is the most important thing. You know, whether it's
a comedy or a drama or whatever kind of movie
you're making, you really want to keep the audience interested
in what's going to happen at the end.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
You know, we'll be right back after a word from
our sponsor, and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, I was listening to an artic interview by Lawrence Block,
who did a walk among the Tombstones. He wrote that,
and he was, you know, saying the same thing about,
you know, having that tension in there because you don't
want audiences going in going, well, hey, I know this
guy is not gonna die because you know, you know,
so of because of you know, X, Y and Z,
and I know this thing's gonna happen, you know what
I mean. And I think that's where you know, I
(30:24):
think a lot of people sort of you know, because
people who usually you know, go to movies, you know,
they've seen other movies before in the same genre, you
know what I mean, They've seen you know, action movies.
That's why when a Diehard comes around, it just blows
people out of the water because they're going, holy crap,
you know this is this guy's this John McClain. He's bleeding,
he doesn't know what's going on. He's injured, he doesn't
(30:44):
you know, he's not just walking in the room with
a machine gun clearing up the whole room, right, you know.
They really he really had to you know, dissect what
was going on and do this sort of very very
you know, cerebrally that's human words, cerebrally, but you know,
he had to go in there and you know, sort
of deduce, you know, and sort of use a surgeon
scalpel and then you know, that's why I think, you know,
(31:05):
Diehard is such a you know, a unique movie.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
It's own, right, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean when it
came out, it was just he was outnumbered and the situation,
the conflict of the situation was fresh and new. Uh,
you know, we hadn't seen anything like that, you know,
in a building where you're stuck in the call spaces
and you've got to maneuver your way and try to
(31:28):
find a way to get rid of these guys. And yeah,
it was a great little scripted piece, you know, and
it was very well executed in the direction too, because
the other cops didn't know what was going on and
they weren't taking it seriously. And you know, these guys
were We knew as an audience, remember, these guys are
super bad and you better take them seriously. Are you're
(31:48):
going to get your in for a big surprise, And
so we knew that as an audience, but you know,
within the film, they didn't know that, and so that
was kind of an interesting angle on it as well.
And there's also those kind of things as an audience,
you tell the audience certain things, but the characters don't know.
Like in Dark Seduction, we know as an audience how
(32:10):
we got bit, but he doesn't figure it out until
well into the film, you know, because he just can't
remember and it's not clear to him and he's not
sure what's going on.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You know.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
But it's a comedy, I mean, it's a it's more
of a comedy parody of a nineteen forties detective film
than it is anything else. But I tried to make
it its own unique movie by combining it with an
eighties vampire field. So it's like a time shift, if
that makes any sense. There's like two different time periods
going on at the same time. So it's kind of
(32:42):
weird that way.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
You know. Well, you know, Greg, I know as you
talk about dar Dark Seduction, you know, I want to
ask you know your writing style, you know, and your
writing process. You know, So when you're going to sit
down and you know, whether you use a notebook or
whether you you know, write this on a computer, I
want to ask you know, what what what is your process?
I mean, do you sort of already you know, have
you I'm sure you already have an idea in mind,
(33:05):
but do you outline it heavily or do you just
you know, sort of let it flow nationally.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Yeah, when I'm writing a feature, I do a three
act outline, and I try to outline each scene with
a number, and I go through the whole thing and
try to get an outline, because when you're when you're
scripting it, if you can at least put a few
lines of dialogue in that paragraph that you've outlined that
scene with, it gives you a jumping off place and
(33:31):
you know where you're going next. And then, of course
you change things as you go along, and not all outlines,
not all scenes in the outline are going to make
it into the script, and then you come up with
new stuff as you go along too, but at least
it gives you sort of a place to start with.
And I just sort a little short film and I
(33:51):
just kind of, you know, did it in a week
and just kind of chipped away at it, like a
page page and a half a day until I got
it all done, like you know, thirteen fourteen pages, and
then I sent it to some few people, got some feedback,
did another draft of it, and now I think it's
in pretty good shape, and so I think, you know,
(34:12):
you think about these things for a while. You kind
of like get a beginning, a middle, and an end
and think about, you know, okay, you need this scene,
you need that scene. And I didn't outline that particular
short film. I just actually just scripted it from just
what I had in mind. So it's a little different
with each project, but I think on a full feature,
(34:33):
it's really good to do a detailed outline of the
whole thing first. And I learned that from working with
I used to write with Rick Overton. We were writing
partners back in the eighties. We wrote some scripts for
studios and a bunch of screenplays for Independence and whatnot.
And I learned that technique from James Keach and Brian Grazer,
(34:55):
who were the producers who were working with in the
early days. And so that's one of the things they
liked to do. And I think it works pretty well,
you know, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Worked pretty well for especially Brian Grazer, right.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Yeah, Well, it just gives you an overview of the movie.
It's like, oh, okay, now I can kind of see
what kind of movie where you know, we're trying to
do here, before you write the script, you kind of
have an idea of how it's all going to go down.
And a lot of writers say they just jump right
into it and they just write right right and they
don't even worry about the three act structure, but their
(35:32):
scripts definitely fall short and kind of fall flat because
of that. I've wrote a ton of scripts, and you know,
if you don't have that three act structure in there,
it's it's really can be quite problematic. You know, not
that everything has to have that or that it should
have that. I mean with Midlife, the three act structure
(35:53):
was sort of hidden and it was not exactly the
way it should be, but it was still there. You know,
it was still there, And I think that's a good
thing to have consciously when you approach an idea, because
if it's not there, you're really on shaky ground. You're
(36:14):
on shaky territory. And by that three X structure, I
mean like certain things have to happen to your lead character,
you know, certain beats and certain things obstacles, and the
conflict has to increase, and you know all those types
of things that are script structure.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
You know, yeah, yeah, and you know that's something I've
talked to before, especially with Alan Watts from Only Raider's Lab.
You know, we talked about, you know, what the three
act structure is supposed to be, and you know, even
even the different systems that you've seen like Save the Cat.
You know, really what they're trying to do is you know,
not only is it trying to guide the transformation, but
it's also you know, trying to just make sure that
you're always amping it up. Yeah, so that way, you know,
(36:53):
you don't sort of you know, on page fifteen, you know,
you have some kind of climax, and the rest of
the movie you just sort of, you know, just meandering.
It's sort of right, you know, just trying to give
you like a blueprint where to go right, and he's an.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Expert at that, much more than I am. But the
upping the andy on the conflict is an important element
to keep in there so that the stakes get higher
as you go along, you know, so absolutely, and that
can apply to any kind of story, you know, whether
you're doing something about a little kid or you know,
(37:23):
whatever it is, the stakes keep getting higher and the
conflict keeps getting more and more intense, you know. So
that's what keeps the line of tension in place and
keeps the audience wondering what's going to happen next? Oh
my god, you know, you can't get any worse, you know,
especially in horror movies, that's a very prevalent technique to use,
(37:46):
you know, when the girl's trapped in a castle and
she just keeps one bad thing happens after another, and
you know, what's you know, what's the next bad thing
that's going to happen. You know, it's like a horrific
thing that's going to happen. It just keeps getting worse
and worse. But yeah, yeah, so you know, knowing all
(38:07):
of this, you know, and learning all of these things
throughout the years as both a writer, actor and a filmmaker,
it's just gives you more ammunition, gives you more confidence
going into a project. And you know, films are tricky propositions.
You know, they're just not a guarantee that they're going
(38:28):
to work, even if you have a good script, even
if you you know, have just thought about it and
you've got it all worked out and you shoot it perfectly.
I mean, when people went to see The Shining, they
were walking out on it. They didn't like it. You know,
it wasn't like the book. Everybody was expecting, you know,
Stanley to do the book and he didn't, and it
(38:51):
just kind of, you know, it didn't really shock you
or scare you that much. You've had a few scares
in it, but not really that gary. But it took
years for that film to sort of find its audience
and find its place in the horror world. And now
it's considered to be one of the best horror movies
ever made. But believe me, when it came out in
(39:14):
nineteen eighty, nobody knew what to make of it. They
were just like, oh, that was weird, you know, they
didn't know how great it was in other words, is
what I'm trying to say. And a lot of his
movies are like that. They take time to kind of
find their audience and to kind of become, you know,
as great as they really are. But I don't know
(39:34):
how he was able to do that, but somehow he was.
Films are weird. I mean, you don't always get it
the first viewing, you know, and then there's all different ways.
If you viewed something by yourself on television, it doesn't
always hit you. But when you see it with an
audience in a theater, Oh my god, it becomes a
whole different thing.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
You know. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean with that,
because you know, I've had that happen to me with
the certain movies.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You know, it's sort of like the shared the shared
experience in a theater and then you know, you try
to watch it at home later on, you like it
didn't hit the same way, or even vice versa. You know,
it's just very it's very interesting. And even David Lynch
had said something about this, he said, you know, don't
watch movies on your phone. Yeah, he just I don't
know why people are trying to watch movies on their phone.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a certain mood, it's
a certain excitement that goes along with seeing it on
the big screen. You can see everything that the movie
has to offer on the big screen, and it's the
shared experience that makes it much more elevated and much
more of an experience altogether. And yeah, I was real
(40:52):
tickled being able to show some of my films to
a full packed theater and see the true reactions, and
it's amazing. You know, some of the things that I've
seen a thousand times and didn't think we're that funny
get big laughs and you're just going, what was that
all about? I didn't think that would get a laugh,
but it does. You just never know, you just never
(41:13):
know about you know, certain things in your own movie
that you think, you don't even think about them, you know,
and then all of a sudden people are reacting to it,
and it's just amazing, you know, and just constantly surprising.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, you know, very true. You know, it's you know,
a lot of these things are going to become very subjective,
you know, they sort of you know, something's hit, some
things don't later on, and then vice versa.
Speaker 4 (41:36):
And the problem with sending your movie to a distributor
online on a file is like, you know, how is
this guy going to watch this thing? Is he going
to watch it while he's you know, on his laptop
on the bus on the way home. Is he going
to watch it on his phone? Or is he going
to put it on the big screen when he gets
home and sit back with some friends and watch it.
(41:56):
You know, I mean, they say they you know they
I don't think anybody can really watch a film by
themselves on a small device and really have a good
response to it. You know, nothing looks as good on
a small device by yourself. I don't care who you are.
You know, you're not going to respond to it as
(42:18):
much as if you say it with a few other people,
because you're you're focusing more on the movie or watching
the movie with other people in the room than you
are by yourself. You get distracted, you put it down,
you stop it for a while. That's not the way
a movie is supposed to be. It's a book, it's
a it's a one thing. It's a one time. You
got to go from A to Z with it, you.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Know, yeah, yeah, And I want to ask, you know,
since the you know, your movie Dark Suction comes out
today as you know, this podcast is being released. You know, Greg,
where can people find Dark Seduction?
Speaker 4 (42:52):
It is going to be on pay per view movie
on demand. You can order the BVD on Amazon. I
think it's going to be on iTunes and all of
the pay per view cable outlets in North America and
and just you know, look it up online. Dark Seduction
(43:12):
pay per view or Dark Seduction, VOD video on demand
in your area. So it's going to be on cable
outlets and video on demand outlets, and that's about all
I can tell you. I mean, it's going to be
on so many of them. I don't know all the listings,
you know, but it should be available you know, Amazon,
(43:34):
iTunes and all the cable pay per views, so we'll
should be able to find it pretty easily.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
And for everyone listening, I'm gonna make sure a link
to that in the show notes as soon as I
can find a you know, the where I can so
sort of send you to, like maybe even Amazon or
even an Xbox or all of them. So that way,
I'll put a few links in the show notes. So good,
you know, Greg great. You know, as we're talking, I
have some Twitter questions that came in. Would you mind
answering one or two?
Speaker 4 (44:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:08):
My first question is what do you recommend for a
first time filmmaker in directing actors?
Speaker 4 (44:15):
That seems to be a tough thing. I think first
time director might do himself a big favor by maybe
taking an acting class guys that are coming more from
a script or an editing position, and then moving up
to directing their own things. Might consider taking an acting
(44:37):
class just to get an idea of watching the teacher
direct actors and watching the actors work out a scene
and rehearse a scene and how it's all supposed to
go down, because in actuality, there's a camera rehearsal with
the actor's rehearsal. Sometimes there's a couple of actors rehearsals
(44:59):
before the camera comes in so that you can kind
of find the choreography and find the way you want
to do it. And then the camera guy comes in
and starts seeing how he can shoot the scene along
with the actors rehearsing it, and then you break for
makeup and touch ups and whatever else you need to do,
(45:19):
and then you come back and you're ready to go,
and then you shoot it. But you know, reading books
about acting, and it's a little overcomplicated. I mean, there's
this whole methodology that you know, there's different branches of
the method and all of that is well and good,
but that's usually the actors responsibility to take that on
(45:42):
and learn that and use that as his own technique
and part of his craft to get where he needs
to be for an imaginary scene. You know, and so
directing actors in that, you know, if they need a
little time to cry, if they need a little time
to get into a certain headspace, an intensity or something,
(46:06):
you give them that time as long as it's not
too long a time, give them a little, you know,
a minute or so to to do what they need
to do to get there, and you're better served. Sometimes
that's what it is. Sometimes sometimes actors are you know,
in character, and they stay in character, and so there's
(46:28):
that to consider. Sometimes they're in a certain mood that
will help them create the character and the mood that
they're trying to achieve, and so you can't you kind
of have to kind of watch out for that sometimes,
and you know, and then some actors, you know, just
drop it the minute the uo cut and they're themselves again,
(46:52):
and then they jump back into character, you know, when
the cameras roll. So there's all kinds of different ways
that actors approach it, and you just have to be
aware of all of that as a director. But basically,
you know, you've got to know when somebody hits a
sour note, and if the line reading is not very good,
(47:13):
you really have to be able to tell that and
tell the actor, how you want to adjust it. Not
doing a line you reading for the actor, but go
let's try that a little quicker, or try it a
little different way. It just seemed kind of falling. It
didn't sound real, or you know, something to that nature
where they you know, they get an idea, but you're
(47:35):
not insulting in them at the same time because you
want to be really nice to your actors. You don't
want to be mean to them at all, because then
they get upset and they get nervous and they don't
perform as well. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
Yeah, and you know, just one thing that someone who
wants told me to it really helped me out when
I was, you know, making my student film was and
it's something you touched on Greg, which it reminded me
of was trying things a little bit differently, and it's
sort of what his mistake was. The guy gave me
advice was when he made a student film, he would
do every take exactly the same way, so every act,
(48:09):
every performance was the exact same way. Lighting, same way, camera,
same way. Well, finally he realized, wait a minute, all
my takes are pretty much the same. So you know,
take you know, take one, you know take one is
the same as take ten, so it really at the
end of the day, he said, you know what I
should have done was after each take, I should have
just tweaked that performance, make that adjustment, you know, and
(48:29):
just sort of try everything a different way, sort of
speak to sort of try to find the best sort
of way to handle a scene.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
Well, I mean, you're going for something very specific. I mean,
that's the thing. It's like, I'm a character, like I
just did this little horror movie called The Borneless Ones.
It's I think it's coming out later in October or whatever,
but I saw it at a festival a couple of
weeks ago. And you know, if I'm a creepy guy
(48:58):
at a gas station, which I play in this film,
there's just so much leeway on each line that I've
got to work with. I'm going for a specific kind
of insulting, kind of creepy, kind of hardcore feeling with
this character. So I don't have a lot of latitude.
(49:19):
I'm really trying to pinpoint that feeling and that character,
you know, And I think that's kind of unless you're
a character that's all over the place. That's kind of
what you're trying to do, is you know, pinpoint your reactions,
pinpoint your your lines, to define the character that you're
(49:43):
playing to be that character and how that feels with
a character. And there is a right and wrong in that,
I do believe, you know, sometimes it feels more like
the character, and then you say it slow or you
say it in a different way than it doesn't feel
like the character.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (50:09):
And so that's what you're doing. You're just trying to
get that meter as close to that character as possible.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Yeah, I think that's great advice. I think that's great advice. Greg.
You know, Greg, just in closing, you know, we've been
talking for about, you know, about forty five minutes now.
So in closing, is there anything that maybe we didn't
want to discuss that you want to sort of talk about,
or is there any sort of thing you want to
sort of any parting thoughts you have for us? It's
sort of for the period d this whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (50:39):
Well, I mean, you know, I've done a lot of
different aspects of the business and it's a very difficult business.
I don't recommend it to anybody. But I at the
same time realized that film is a big thing, and
I would say, continue to support movies by going to
the movies, maybe not so many you know, comic book blockbusters,
(51:02):
but more independent cinema, because we still want to see
movies in the theater, and we still want to support
the theater showings of films. And you know, I would say,
don't pirate movies, don't download pirated films, because that only
hurts the filmmaker and it makes it much more difficult
to put films out there. You know, everybody wants something
(51:25):
for free on the internet. But we still we got
to get our money back and we've got to try
to support the films that are made on a shoestring
budget that are good by paying a little, you know,
four or five bucks to see them. You know, I
don't think there's anything you know, I think that's an
honorable way to go, and I think that's what we
(51:45):
as film lovers, you know, should do. That's the right
thing to do. And you know, I'm hoping everybody will
enjoy Dark Seduction. And I've got another film, Midlife, that's
on iTunes and Indie Rain and a few other outlets
out there and check that out. But Dark Seduction is
the big one, and it's you know, it's very comic book,
(52:08):
it's very cultish, it's very dark and moody, but it's
also extremely funny and I'm super proud of it. And
it's kind of different. It's it's unique. It's got its
own little thing going, you know. So I hope people
dig it.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah, and I'll make sure to again everyone want to
link to that in the show notes as well, especially
to you know, Greg's films.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
And there's also a Dark Seduction page on Facebook, and
there's a Dark Seduction Twitter on Twitter. So yeah, the
Facebook page is what I'm using now is and my
website is gtfilm Productions dot com is my production company website.
Speaker 3 (52:51):
You read my mind, Greg, next question online and you're
on Twitter too, right, yes.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
Yes, Greg the actor on Twitter. And then there's a
dark Underslash Underslash seductions that's on Twitter as well.
Speaker 3 (53:09):
So Greg, Greg Travis, I want to say thank you
so much for coming on again. I always learn a
lot from my guests, and you know, Greg, you've continued
that that line of education and I you know, this
has just been a phenomenal interview, especially because I don't
get enough actors on. That's that's the case. Usually you
know a lot of screenwriters, a lot of directors, a
(53:29):
lot of producers. I don't get enough actors on here
every everybody. It's Dave Bulls dot com where you can
find all the show notes and I will link to
everything that Gregor and I discussed in the show notes
at Greg Travis. I want to say thank you so
much for coming on and I wish you the best
with Dark Soudition.
Speaker 4 (53:44):
You Dave, I really appreciate it. Good luck with everything.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Oh thank you sir, and if you ever feel like
you want to come back on, I would love to
have you on anytime. I really look forward to see
what you're going to do in the future.
Speaker 4 (53:54):
Absolutely thanks to Dave.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at indie film Huscle
dot com. Forward slash eight fifteen. If you haven't already,
please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and
leave a good review for the show. It really helps
us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much
(54:18):
for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk
to you soon.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
Indie Film hustle dot com. That's I N D I
E F I L M h U S T l
E dot com