Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome to the INDIEILM Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight sixteen
Cinema Should Make You Forget. You're sitting in a theater,
Roman Polanski.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
Film Hustle podcast, where we show you how to survive
and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
the film biz.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle podcast.
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is
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That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest
host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Hey Rocky, thanks love for coming on the show. Hey Man,
thanks for live so Rocky. Just to get started, It's
a question I ask everybody, and that question is Rocky,
how did you get started in the film industry?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Oh wow, let's see, Well this goes back. I've been
a part of it. I've been on the outside, first
of all, for a long time forever. But I started
when I was a kid trying to get into acting.
And stuff. So I started doing some extra work and
got on some some TV shows and stuff, and it
was pretty much on those shows that I found the
(02:29):
love for making movies. So I started making like pretty
much every h filmmaker, you make your home movies and
stuff starring your family members and friends. And and then
it was around two thousand that I the year two
thousand when I made my attempted to make my first feature.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
So you know, your experience of going on those film sets,
you know, you know what were some of the you know,
the moments that you started realize like this is really
connecting with you.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Right, Well, it was I can narrow it down to
one show. I worked as a full time extra on
the On the Wonder Years, which was a pretty popular
show back in the day. I don't know how many
the kids know about it now, but it was that
show that I actually was hired by the production company
and work full time. So there's anyone that knows. Anyone
(03:28):
that's worked as an extra knows that you're on set
and then they kind of kick you off and go
back to your folding area or school when they're setting
up shots. And I would always find a way to
sneak back on set because I was just so fascinated
by watching them setting up the lights and the camera.
And what was interesting is that it actually ended up
(03:49):
I actually ended up getting a stand in gig because
I was just hanging around. So I got to be
a stand in for one of the stars on the show.
So that was it, really And then I got I
got to meet Daniel Daniel Stern who was directing he
I think he directed a few of the episodes, and
(04:11):
he was also the narrator for the lead character on
the show. And got to meet him and it was
a really awesome thing to meet him because of course
I knew him from the Home Alone series. So just
again leaving that show, I had a whole newfound love
of being to high in the camera instead of in
(04:33):
front of it.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
No, it's funny about the stand in story because it
was almost like you were standing around someone was like
it would be a stand in exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
That's literally what it was.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, you know, I remember the Wonder Years. You know,
it's funny because Kevin who was a star who and
whose real name escapes me at the moment, but fred Sava,
that's right. Why did I not remember that. He Actually
I ended up up bumping into him one day at
a on the set of It's Always Something in Philadelphia,
and I was like, oh my god. I was like,
(05:06):
you know, you know, it's Fred Savage and he was like, yeah, yeah, Hi,
it's very nice to meet you. And he's he was
a director now and that's why, you know, that's what
he's been doing now these days.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
I've heard that I think he's doing some TV stuff
and you know, yeah, that kid was. I mean, during
that time, it was mega. It was you know, being
on set. We would come in a lot of high
schools and stuff, and that kid was like a beatle,
I mean, just hugely famous.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It was.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
It was fun to be around.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Well, I mean, that's amazing. I can only imagine, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What it would be like to be like a kid
actor like that age and just be so popular.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Like that exactly. And that's what I grew up watching.
You know, if you grew up in the eighties like
I did, it was it was all about sitcoms and stuff,
and that's what I always wanted to do. I always
wanted to be that that, you know, teen star kid
and everything. But I'm actually happy now that I didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Sort of like the two Coreys Corey Felman and Corey
Haynes exactly. Yeah, but uh yeah, I mean, I mean
those you know, those guys were just all the all
the horror stories they have. Yeah, Corey Haym Stauly passed away.
But you know, you worked on another show and that
was popular in the nineties, uh, you know, as an actor,
and that was Beverly Hills, not A two and oh.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
I did, yeah, and again very this is all very
like extra stuff, uh uh. And that pretty much any
show that had to do with teens at the time
I did, Uh you know, there was the nine of
two and oh and then A Party of Five and
again I still remember these life goes on any anything
(06:57):
that had to do with teens I was a part of.
But again I credit it the Wonder Years because that
was the one that I was actually employed full time.
I was, I was. I worked on that show for
about three years, so it was that's where I got
the experience. And once I started doing some of these
other uh like the the nine O two one ohs
and stuff, those were just little little gigs here and there.
(07:19):
And that's actually when I started to tune out and
not really want to do that anymore.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So, you know, you made your in your first film
in nineteen onety nine, Godsend, correct.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
That was still a short film. My feature debut was
shortly after that with Return to Innocence.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I see. So you know, so when you were making
you know, The Wonder Years to Bible Hills out of
two and oh, you were doing you know, the extra work.
So did you try, you know, start making some attempts
at me, you know, making films like meaning, did you
start making what you know would be quote unquote your
student films?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah, because I didn't go to a film school. Again,
I barely went to high school because I was on
set a lot. But so I would credit. What really
happened was I got involved in public access TV, which
I don't know if it's even exists anymore, but that's
kind of that was an avenue back in the day
before the Internet and YouTube, where you can actually go
(08:19):
and borrow equipment from the cable studio and then go
out and make your movies. And it was funny because
usually people would make their cooking shows or political shows
or interview kind of things. And I was out making
like horror films and stuff, and when it was it
(08:41):
was fun to see it kind of air on TV
and everything. So really I would credit that as almost
being my quote unquote film school. And then of course
just learning learning along the way. You never stopped learning.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Very true, Very true, Rocky. You always got to keep learning.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So you know when you were when you were you know,
started making your own films, you know, what were some
of the things I mean that that you know, really
shocked and surprised you when you were making your films, Meaning,
were there certain things that like like problems that you
didn't anticipate coming out of nowhere. And by the way,
that's kind of a load of question, Rocky, Yah. I
know that's yes, because it happens to us, all right,
it does.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
Yeah, And you know, and it goes back to what
I said, you're always learning that I take something from
every film. My very first film, the thing that I
learned was was lighting. I knew nothing about lighting, and
we had a really good dp where the film was
well with shot in color, but we wanted we wanted
a black and white film. The ark style kind of film.
(09:43):
So this guy knew how to light for black and white,
and so I was watching him and I kind of
picked that up. And then sound has always been a problem,
and so I think sound issues. I kind of pick
that up on the second film and wanted to learn
more about that. And I think the storytelling and working
(10:06):
with actors has always kind of been natural for me,
because again I kind of come from that background as
an actor and writing scripts and stuff, so that, you know,
dealing with the actors has never really been an issue
for me, although I've heard other filmmakers say differently.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
You know, you know that's that's a question I was
going to ask you was about, you know, because you
come from an acting background, do you think you're more
comfortable directing actors?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Yeah, I you know, It's it's strange the more i'm
I think. I at first I was completely I was
so clueless on the technical side of filmmaking, and I'm
still not that much better. But I would really spend
a lot of time with the actors, and lately it
seems like I want to let the actors kind of
(10:59):
play themselves. I don't want to really be the puppeteer
and they're just you know, again the puppets on on
my streams or whatever. I like to see them play
because I think it brings out a natural thing, natural performance.
And you know, when you're in the audition room and
(11:19):
you've had callback after callback, you see these people and
you've decided that you want this actor or actors for
the role, that means you want them. That means you're
happy with them. You're not going to get anything better
than what they're giving you. Maybe a little better, but
not not much. So you got, You're happy with what
you got, and so I like to let them play.
(11:41):
So my focus is actually become a little bit more
into the shots and the style and the camera movements
and stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, you know, I understand it pluly what you mean,
because sometimes I think that you know, you hire certain actors,
you hire certain crew because for there's a reason for it,
you know, And I think, you know, if you do,
if you have those people hired, you should, you know,
let them do the work that they were hired to do,
if you know what I mean exactly, because they, like
(12:12):
they say, Rocky, half of directing is casting the right
roles right or casting the right people in the right Roles.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Absolutely, It's so true.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
So you know, Rocky, you know, as we talk about
you know, your your directing career, you know, you did
God Send, you did Return to Innocence, and in two
thousand and five you followed up with Hollowed. Yes, so
you know, I wanted to ask, you know, as we
talked about your directing style as well, but your writing style,
you know, because I believe you've written all of your
of your own movies.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Correct not not correct. I did write a few of them,
and Hallowed is one that I wrote. And also Hallowed
is the the feature length version of God Send, which
was the short in ninety nine. So and it was
that was that film was actually kind of shot out
(13:04):
of frustration because see, I grew up on horror films again,
and you're in the eighties, you were, you were, you
were attacked by horror films. They were everywhere. So I
grew up on those. And we were trying to get
another film done at the time and it fell apart,
and so I was like, you know, I have a camera,
I got a couple of lights. I learned a little
(13:26):
bit of what to do on my Return to Innocence.
So let's just make a crazy slasher movie and so
I wrote directed that one, and and yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
So you know, I want to ask about your writing style, Rocky,
you know, And basically that question is, you know, when
you're when you're writing, do you subscribe to any sort
of method or anything like that, or like you know
what I mean, like the USC sequencing method or save
the Cat or anything, or do you just sort of
start with a heavy treatment I wanted to I'm just
asking you know, how you know you go about writing
on your own screenplays?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Sure? Sure? Well again, writing, especially as I'm getting older,
writing is not coming easy to me anymore, meaning the
actual act of sitting down at a desktop and starting
to type. I end the writers that can just sit
(14:21):
down and just away they go okay, I don't think
I've ever been able to do that. I'm still what
I do. As a matter of fact, I just got
back from Santa Barbara because I'm softly writing a new product,
a new script, and I still have a pad and
a pen, and I just I come up with actual
(14:46):
not even not even a story. I just come up
with ideas like this will be cool, this will be
like a cool moment in a movie. I don't know
what the movie is, but this will be a cool moment.
And then I start think thinking of characters, and really
I have everything laid out on paper before I even
(15:09):
sit down at a desk and start actually constructing the script.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
So you know, you still use a pen in a paper.
Then do you do to write out everything like a treatment,
the outline everything.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
No, it's really just notes. It just filled with a
bunch of different notes. And then in my head that
the idea starts to come around. And then I don't
really do the treatment first, I just start getting into
the script. And I also.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Will be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Right straight through. And if I'm thinking ahead, meaning I
start at page one and I literally just go go
all the way through. If I come up with an
idea something strikes me, then then I go back to
the notes and I make some notes, like I might
know the ending of the film before I even know
(16:14):
anything else, Like I know, I know how I want
to end this thing, but I have no idea how
we're going to get there. So I will write down
the ending, make notes of the ending, and then when
I get there, just just you pretty much just put
it in.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, you know, I had Al Watt, who runs the
l A Writer's Lab, and you know, he actually talked
about that where he said, you know, if you know
where you're going to begin or where you're going to
be end, he said, we have to let our subconscious
sort of fill in the gaps, right, and you know,
you know, and he would say, you know, just imagine
your hero transformed, Imagine you're here, you know what I mean.
So that way you can sort of let your subconscious
(16:47):
sort of piece all those things together exactly.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
And again, like I said, I'm not a natural writer,
so you know, my way is my way. I started
writing mainly because I needed a film to make, so
I'm a director first, and so no one I couldn't
find a writer. No one else was, you know, doing
any writing for me. So it's like I was kind
(17:10):
of forced to, well, if I want to make a movie,
I got to write the darn thing.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, and you know, Rockie, I think that is sort
of what I've been noticing is more and more is
that you know, there's there's two camps. Either the people
who sort of say, well, you know, I'm going to
audition for this I'm gonna write this screenplay or I'm
going to try to direct this movie or this or that.
And then there's the other camp where that says, you
know what, if I'm gonna do movies, I'm going to
(17:35):
have to write this for myself.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
Right, And you're also seeing which is it is a
way in. But I think a lot of actors that
that that try that they realize how how much, how
hard is you know, it's not you know, just I'm
an actor and I can't get a gig, so I'm
just going to write a movie for myself. They don't
realize that. Okay, well, now you got to get the
(17:58):
thing option. You got to sit around and hope that
it goes to production, and and then you've got to
fight to make sure that you get the lead in that,
in that project or whatever. But to go with more
of what you're saying, you're starting to see that a lot.
It's almost like everybody is doing everything nowadays. So actors
(18:19):
are not just actors. They are actors, producers, directors, you know,
they're they're everything. And I've always kind of just been
one one thing, like a director and of course writing
if I'm if I'm gonna if I don't have a writer,
I'll write it and then and then direct. But I'm
seeing like it just seems like everybody's doing everything these days.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Yeah, very true, because I you know, I have all
my guests on to prove it. But no, you know,
but but no, I know exactly what you mean, because
you know, now it's it's a lot easier to make
a film. You know, I have an upcoming guest, and
you know, he was saying he made his film in
the moments making films in the late eighties, early nineties,
and what happened was he said, you needed a whole
(19:02):
army to make a film. He goes nowadays, you know,
with digital, he goes some hees small gorilla crews and
they're pulling off stuff that he used to need, like,
you know, fifty one hundred people.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
To do exactly, you know, And it's it's kind of
an interesting thing here, is that I feel like almost
like a pioneer to this digital phase because I was
I was shooting on video when it wasn't cool to
shoot on video. You know, it was a time where
everybody if you don't shoot on film, then you're you're
an amateur. You're not professional, and so it's I I'm
(19:36):
used to working like that with a very small crew.
The current film that we just did, Ditch Party, that's
probably the biggest, probably the biggest crew we had. But
I'm used to just my early stuff is I was
ever the everything, the camera guy, the you know, the
sound guy, the producer, director, editor. In some cases I
(20:00):
even lay down some some music. Uh So I'm kind
of I'm kind of used to that that mold. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
I you know, there's a there's a book I always
talk about. It's by Stut Makovitz called Rebels Rebels DV
Guide and it's sort of based off of Robert Riguez's
Rebel without a Crew. Uh and I think he know
he was again was one of the pioneers too, where
he just you know, got a crew well sorry, he
had no crew. He got a camera, a minimal cast
and went down to Mexico and made a film. You know.
(20:29):
And you know, that book has been you know, I
think every filmmaker nowadays has that book in their library. Yeah,
because it is just so influential, uh you know, and
it's just it's always about you know, having that can
do attitude and sort of pushing ahead, and uh, you
know that's why, you know, that's why I think a
lot of this came from we you know, now the
sort of paradigm has shifted and we don't need you know,
(20:50):
as many people as we needed to as we needed before. Uh,
you know, and certain things have changed. Certain things have
gotten less expensive, certain things maybe have gotten more expensive. Uh,
you know, it just I think, you know, it just
depends upon you know, your network and what kind of
movie you're making.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
Exactly, and you know the film should come first too,
the thing that's changing now. And first of all, let's
go back. You're gonna mention Robert Rodriguez. You know, a
director that I think really started that was a Rick
wink Later and he was the influence of a lot
of those Rodriguez and Kevin Smith's and with this film
a slacker. But and then yet you're right that that
(21:29):
had the anyone can do this attitude and that was
a great time. I missed that boat, that nineties wave,
which is definitely not there anymore, of course, but nowadays
it seems like what I this is my perspective here
(21:50):
is that it seems like it's easier to make a movie.
But it's harder to get the thing released. And there's
so much content now, and there's the best of those
are getting so many submissions, so it's hard to get
into festivals, it's hard to get distribution for your films,
and so you're you have options now, of course, you
(22:11):
can kind of self distribute, and I think that's kind
of where we're going. It's really things have changed so
much and in such a little short amount of time too.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Yeah, you know, I have had a couple of guests
come on who've well, actually more than a couple of
guests who've actually said that, you know, they they said,
you know, it used to be there was a certain
amount of script submissions, certain amount of movie submissions to
like Sundance because obviously, you know Rocky, everyone wants to
get into Sundance. You know, that's sort of like a dream,
and you know, and now he said, that's the new key.
(22:42):
He goes, it's almost like movies. It was actually it
was Pulpyddo who runs script Gods Must Die, and he
actually he actually said something to the effect of, you know,
it's it's almost like, you know, movies get you're easier
to make, but now getting people to see them as
a hard part and gaining distribution. And you know, he
was actually asking because I've had a couple of distribution
(23:02):
people on here. You know, what is the key? You know,
what does it take to get on the front page
of iTunes? What does it take to get on the
front page of Netflix? Uh? You know, and and is
it even worth it? You know what I mean? And
by the way, the answer to that is a very
long winded answer. But but you know, you know, for
everyone listening, Jason Brubaker runs an awesome site of filmmaking
(23:23):
stuff dot com and he can help you out. He
runs he's actually a head of distribution at the Stripper,
which actually is an aggregator and uh, they're they're big
into distribution stuff. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
Sorry to interrupt you, but yeah, I don't know if
I talked with him as a matter of fact, and
we almost did. H we almost did something with him
and and still might. So I'm familiar with him. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:47):
Oh cool. Yeah, Jason's a great guy, and you know
that that's that's part of the thing, you know, And honestly,
you know, you know, last on a couple of weeks ago,
on an episode of the podcast and one of the bumpers,
Rocky I and said, you know, if if I had
no connections, if I had you know what I mean,
if I had nothing and I was going to make
a movie, right, I would make a movie for you know,
(24:09):
try to give one location cinema, Try to you know,
make it obviously as cheap as possible. Can my asset list,
my actors list, my my location list, make the best
film I can with the story first, you know, obviously
the story has to be so compelling, so interesting, and
from there, I know it sounds crazy, Rocky, but I
would almost really, if it cost me it was nothing
(24:30):
to make this thing, or maybe even you know, maybe
five hundred bucks, I would put it on YouTube for
free to build an audience. As crazy as that sounds.
I know it might seem crazy to release a move
for free, but in a way, if I if that
was going to be like maybe a student film or
one of my first films or you know, I would
just me release it for free and just to see
if I get an audience and try to get attention
(24:51):
that way. Because Fede Alvarez, who directed the Evil Deed remake,
was able to do that because he put up Panic Attack,
which was a short film, and then he was able
to and he got so much attention through that that
they gave him the uh uh I think Universal gave
him the go ahead to direct Evil Dead right.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And and you're right, there's no wrong way to do it.
And uh and and that's the thing is unique and
and you said, the key thing there is is cheap.
You know, you we have the capability these days. There's
there's cameras, cheap cameras out there that you can use.
And like you said, story first, everything you're saying is
is is absolutely correct. And you make you make something
(25:29):
real cheap, you don't it spent a lot of money. Uh.
You know, you go back to the film Hallowed, my
second film there that was literally almost no budget. I
literally just home depot shop lights and stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
and now back to the show.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And some gels and it was basically me At some
points I was like even on rollerblades to get like
Dolly kind of shots and stuff. That that was my
That was the one experience I ever got where the
film was completely bought outright from a distributor, released on
DVD and Uh, so that movie costs nothing, you know,
(26:18):
and if you see the film, I mean, i'm i'm
I can say this, I'm I can criticize my own
work here, but it's not that great, you know. And
and it again it costs nothing, but here I get
a nice check. So the point is you never know,
you know, And so try anything if you can. If
you can make a film and put it out there
on YouTube and someone discovers it, and you might be
(26:41):
able to get a gig off that, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, that's you know, and uh, you know, you know,
it's like you said, we always keep learning. And that's why,
you know, even when I say the lease of film
for free. I have friends of mine who got noticed
in the early days of YouTube, Like I'm talking two
thousand and four. They got noticed on YouTube by Lifegate.
Lionsgate actually contacted them and said, hey, what's this zombie
movie you're doing? And they thought it was a joke
(27:07):
and they ignored it, and then they kept the emailed
them back through YouTube and said no, we want to
talk to you about buying your film. And you know
that's a whole nother story. But yeah, but you know,
it's amazing what can happen, you know, especially with social media.
You know, the more people I talk to, the more
people are adamant that. You know, if you're going to
be any if you're going to be in the entertainment business, now,
you have to have some kind of social media presence now,
(27:29):
you know what I mean. And you have to have
a website because if you don't, they kind of look
at you like, well, why don't you have a Why
don't you on Twitter? You know why if you're a filmmaker,
why don't you have YouTube? You know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Right, It's it's true, and and there's guys like me
that that struggle with that. I'm not real big on
the social stuff, but you're right, you need to. You've
got to get on board.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Well, you know, I actually I want to talk to
more about, you know, your directing projects. You know, Rocky I.
There's a film to ask about. I'm actually interested in
knowing myself. But it's it's eleven eleven. Yeah, Uh yeah,
I actually, you know, I was actually interested in asking
about that project. Uh So for actually for me and
everyone listening, can you tell us a little bit about
eleven eleven?
Speaker 4 (28:11):
It's the film that uh yeah, it's kind of a
sore subject. Not I'm glad you brought it up. It's
just great, but uh, it's the it's the one film
I did that uh that we never finished. Uh, and
it had so much hype behind it, and so anyway,
(28:32):
it was, well, what do you want to know about it?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Well, actually, I just want to know, like, you know
what what the whole synopsis of the project was all
that stuff?
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Because the reason I asked was because I saw the
on IMDb. A lot of people were asking about it,
so I figured, you know, I might as well I
better ask about it too.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Yeah. Well again it goes back to this film started
in four and uh we that was the film that
fell apart and we started doing uh how lowed remember
right said we didn't hallowed out of frustration because that
that film fell apart. It was just a mess all
the way all the way through. But the main the
(29:08):
main thing was that it started with just like a
coming of age type of thing, uh, which we've gotten.
Some people said it reminded of like stand by Me
and that kind of thing, and I think maybe that
might have been what what what the interest was? Uh?
And we had some again had some issues. So that
script actually was changed, uh to to where we brought
(29:30):
the kids back years later, and so I wanted to
make something to where we could play off that angle
of their kids and then we can pick up the
script and pick up the story I mean of them later.
And uh, it's actually a long story. It's it gets
really complicated the storyline of that film.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Uh you know, I I'm I didn't mean to bring
up a sore spot, Rockey. I just the reason I
asked was because when if you were asked about on IMDb,
I thought, you know, it would be you know, I
better asked about it too.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But yeah, yeah, no, it had no problem at on there.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Oh cool? Uh so it is I know you said
it wasn't completed, but is there anywhere is it? Is
it released ever?
Speaker 4 (30:14):
Or what we did was there is a documentary that
we that we released on it, which is the Rise
and Fall of eleven eleven Wells. The shelved is the
name of it because we had a we had a
camera crew on on set getting behind the scenes footage
and so that that ultimately turned out turned into the documentary.
(30:37):
So you can you can find that and that actually
will answer all your questions. I'm sure on the film.
It's a very lengthy documentary and it's kind of cool
because it really shows what it's like to be on
the set of a of a small independent film with
you know, with very little money, and it kind of
(30:58):
walks through. It's like a day by day kind of journal,
if you will, of the film.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, and I'll definitely link down in the show notes
for everyone listening, you know, I you know, I'm always fascinated,
you know, because obviously I've been on a ton of
film sets as well, and you know, I'm always you know,
I always like documentaries because I love Heart of Darkness,
which was for you know, the documentary shadowing of Pocops
now because I always find stuff like that fascinating.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Oh yeah, they're great. I love them too, you know.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
And just you know, obviously, your next movie after Eleven
to eleven was Midnight Cabby. So, you know, for everyone listening,
you know, can you just give us a short synopsis
of the film.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Yeah, Well, I've I always wanted to do a comedy.
It's weird. This was like maybe our fifth or fifth
film in sixth film in and I realized I haven't
even attempted comedy and the kind of filmmaker that am is.
I love the challenge of doing something new, a different genre,
(31:59):
of doing something different. I've done the horror film thing,
I've done a couple of dramas at that point, and
so I have an attempted comedy. So the comedy that
I grew up on was again the early eighties stuff
like Airplane and where you know, political correctness was out
(32:21):
out the window, you know. So we wanted to make
something like that and just a fun, goofy popcorn movie,
and it was it was. It was actually a lot
of fun to make, and I'm I'm pretty proud of
that one.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
And so I believe that's the one where the cab
driver has one night to raise off money to get
his brother out of out of us, sort of Harm's
way with I think his was being held captive in
a warehouse in my preser.
Speaker 4 (32:50):
Yeah, it's over a gambling debt and the main character, Doug,
has to to bail him out, and every place that
he tries to get get some cash you can't do it.
So pretty much, again, it's a zany comedy. So he
the only way to make the money is uh, he
gets put in this situation where he has to drive
(33:11):
a cab all night and he's constantly just picking up
one weirdo after another, uh, you know, to meet his
goals still again, Yeah, it's a race against the clock
kind of thing again, comedies that I used to watch
as a kid. It's it's pretty much what it's what
it is.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, very cool. I actually, uh again, I was looking
around your IMDb and I saw that and I actually, uh,
that one actually caught my eye, uh because it actually
is you know, I saw a race against the clock comedy.
But a guy who I started a taxi all night
collecting fares to beil his brother who's being out hostage.
And that's one I wanted to ask about just because
I thought, you know, that was a pretty interesting log line.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Yeah it was. And it was fun too. It was
a fun film.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
So, you know, I want to you know, now, you
have a new movie coming out called Ditch Party, and
I wanted to ask you know obviously, you know, since
so we were talking about your earlier works and we
were talked about you know, now you have Ditch Party
coming out. So basically, has has your writing and changed
as well as your as your directing style have has
it changed and evolved over time or do you sort
(34:14):
of have the same sort of method you used to
every project.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Okay, well, yeah, Ditch Party is different in almost every way.
And I'll start by saying that I did not write
Ditch Party. This was a nor was this my quote
unquote like my film. This was a film that, like
you can say that all the other films was was
(34:37):
my creation. I was behind the producing of it and
directing and in some cases writing. I did collaborate with
the writer on this on Bitch Party, like I do.
I love to work with writers. I love to collaborate.
But I was not the writer, nor was I the
(34:59):
producer on this one. So this was the first film
that I was actually approached by Noel j the producer
of the film, and his partner David Ramick, who had
Entangled Entertainment. It was. It was over a phone call.
I was not expected to do anything with them. I
(35:20):
was focused on another film that I was still trying
to get off the ground, and this was almost like
thrown in my lap. So it was a first experience
to actually direct something that wasn't completely mine.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
So I know you the writer was Richard Mees, you know,
and I can see you've worked with him before. So
do you have like this working relationship where you know,
he sort of you know, you guys sort of collaborate
a lot of projects.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
Yeah, it's starting to turn that way. He we met.
He's actually an actor. He's one of the lead actors
in my first film, going back to Return to Innocence,
and he's just kind of been been hanging around and uh,
you know, we brought up the fact that he writes,
and so Night Cabby was Yeah, was probably the first
(36:19):
collaboration and then a Bitch Party, So yeah, it you know,
it's kind of become a thing.
Speaker 3 (36:28):
And you know that's that goes back to something else
that you know we were talking about, is you know
some some directors have a certain cast and crew they
always work with because the reason is, you know what
you're going to get, you know what I mean. That's
why I always wonder why Tim Burton always worked with
Johnny dept And and I always work with the same people,
and John Carpenter as well. Now I get it, you
know years later it they've done projects. Now I get
why that they those same people always work together for
(36:50):
one project to another.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
Absolutely, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
And you know so that way, you know, you know,
you know each ose weaknesses and strengths, you know each
other's you know everything, and it just and you know
this too rocky. You know, making a movie is like
seriously being in a relationship, you know, and you're going
to be asking yourself. It's like Jenna Edwards and I
had her on she said, there's there's two ways that
she ever, two criteria she uses to evaluate people for
(37:16):
coming on to a project. Can you do your job?
And could I live with you for a month? In
of course yep.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
That's that's that sums it up right there, because it's
not it's not just the them as the actors. Can
you can you tolerate that person?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
You know?
Speaker 4 (37:31):
So very true?
Speaker 3 (37:34):
Yeah, you know, and uh, for everyone listening, could you
just give us a short log line about Ditch Party? Uh?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Yeah, okay, So you know, the plot isn't anything when
you look at the when you look at the marketing stuff,
the trailer and everything to play, it's it's really not
anything that we haven't seen before. You know, kid shows
up to school with the gun, and starts, uh, you know,
firing away. What I wanted to do again with your
(38:03):
initial phone call is we were going to basically do
one room set up, kind of what you were talking
about before. But what's the reason. You know, you have
films like The Breakfast Club where these kids are in
the same room. The reason they're there is because they
have Saturday detention. So what's the reason? And there's been
(38:28):
a lot of documentaries on this subject. There's I mean, heck,
it's on TV every other night, you know, another another
the saying this problem is still happening, and I wanted something.
I haven't seen this. I'm not saying it doesn't exist,
but I personally haven't seen a film where the perspective
is the kids in the room. So it's the focus
(38:50):
is not on the shooter or glorifying what the shooter's doing.
It's about the kids that are trapped in a room
and what they go through, the drama that they go through,
and you can't And I wanted the rule was I
want the camera in the room with them. The camera's
going to be basically another character. And we started realizing
(39:14):
that if you're going to do a feature film and
it's set in one room the entire time. That's a
challenge and it's tough to keep, especially today's audience compelled,
you know, to watch sit through an hour and a
half of them in one room. So we started kind
of bending the rules and said, okay, if one of
the characters leaves the room and we have the green light,
(39:38):
that the camera can leave the room. So but anyway,
in a nutshell, that it's really the focus. It's the
perspective of this film is that it's in the room
with the victims.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
You know, in a way have you seen Green Room?
By the way, green Room is kind of like that,
you know, Greenom takes place in one location and uh
literally you know, and it's it's in the green room obviously.
So it's it's about a punk band. They go to
this sort of nazi punk bar and as they're leaving,
they witness a murder and they they they're hiding out
(40:13):
in the green room and they're trying to get out
of there and now all this you know, and and
it's it's you know, it's it's fascinating. But this is
what you know, and we were talking about earlier, is
you know, how do you create compelling one location cinema.
I think, you know, Green Room does a great job
of that. And it's this what you were talking about
with with with Ditch Party, you know, I like that
idea too, where if the character leaves a room, obviously
(40:36):
you know, the camera can find I'm sorry, yeah, I
character leaves the room of camera can follow them, you know.
And but but this is what I think, Rocky is.
I sort of think this is the new sort of
hallmark or definition of this era, is you know, making
films in one location. And honestly, I think it's it's
it's good because it makes you a better storyteller because
(40:58):
you have to sort of, you know, push yourself to
tell a better story. And I think it was maybe
Kevin Smith who said, you know, if the audience, you know,
when he was writing Red State, if he knew what
was going to happen next, he would completely get rid
of it because you figured that's what the audience would
we assume as well.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Absolutely, yeah, and you're right, and it and it doesn't
allow a lot of freedom for your effects or camera
team to get all crazy. You know, you're they're stuck
in one room, so they can't they can't go wild.
And I'm because I'm with you. I'm a story is uh,
And it's been said from generation to generation it's story, story, story,
(41:38):
And you know, all the young filmmakers out there, that's
that's the thing that I feel like, that's not the focus.
Everyone keeps saying the greats from the seventies, those great filmmakers,
they keep saying story, story, story, And yet with the
new technology, everyone's all into these tricky shots and drones
and and and everything. So it's, you know, again, if
(42:00):
you want, if you want a good movie, it starts
with the story.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah. I actually had a friend of mine who shot
a film and when I asked them what it was about,
his first his first words were, oh, man, we had
a four k drone flying over this thing. I go, yeah,
I'm sure that looks freaking amazing. Man. But I said,
what's it about? And he's like, oh, you know, uh,
you know, and we had all this other stuff. I'm like,
oh my god. So, yeah, this story has to be key,
(42:27):
because you know, audiences are savvy. Honestly, they will notice
if there's no substance there, you know what I mean.
So that's why when you and I were talking about
stories first they're they're always going to be you know,
hooking on that story. And I wanted to ask real
quick about Ditch Party. Did you know, I you know,
five students trapped themselves in the basement of their high
school doing all at assault on students and faculty. I
(42:49):
wanted to ask, you know, did you actually film in
a real high school?
Speaker 4 (42:53):
We did, Yeah, and that was Uh, that was really
fun and also again a different challenge.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
We filmed some of it at high school and then
we were on set for the actual room. Now, we
were planning on shooting this thing in the in the
summer before kids got back into the school, but it
didn't work that way. That we were waiting on funding
to you know happen and everything, so we actually shot
(43:22):
during school when school was in session. Now we were
on the weekends. But the challenge wasn't so much the filming.
The challenge was getting everything because we kind of destroyed
that that school and in the sense of like you know,
we had we brought in all these props and we
set dressed everything, and we had kids that were you
(43:44):
know dead on the floor. We had fake blood and stuff,
and so we would rip out light fixtures in the
classrooms and stuff, and if they're listening right now, they're
you know, I'm sorry. But we did all these things
and then we had to put everything back at the
end of the night and make it in clean up
and everything. So it was a It sounded like a
(44:06):
good thing and it really was, but at the same time,
it was a lot of work.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, you know, that's amazing at the shoot in real
high school, because I couldn't even imagine the obstacles that
you would have to go through.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
I will obviously I was sorry interrupted, I was shocked myself,
and that the credit goes to Noel g because he
made that happen. I remember we were in the school district.
We didn't even go to the school, We had to
go to the district and I was with him in
that room and I was thinking, how are we going
(44:40):
to you know, how are we going to sell this thing?
And Nowell went right into it. It was it was hilarious.
He said, this is what we're going to do. And
there's this kid. He's going to be walking down the
hall and he's shooting kids, and we're going to have
these squibs with blood splattering. And I'm looking at this
guy across the way, and I'm like, well, we might
as well just leave, man, because there's no way we're
(45:02):
getting this. And the guy just said, yeah, go ahead.
So I was I was shocked.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah, that that's that's you know, uh, you know amazing
you could get that because see that. You know, that's
the other thing too, when I was on my location
list earlier. You know, some people have access to to
amazing locations or able you know, or like uh, Noel
g you know, like you were you know, Uh, he's
just good at selling the idea, you know, selling himself,
selling the script, selling the project. Uh, you know, and
(45:33):
some people just you know, some people, some producers have
that gift of charisma and likability and they're just like, oh,
everyone's like, oh you know what, you know, well we're
gonna work.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show for this guy.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Because I like him, Yeah, and it was bad.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
You go back to, Uh, I've been pretty lucky on
that side to myself. I mean my first you go
back to Return to Innocence. Uh. We filmed in a
real courthouse because the second half of the movie is
is the court trial and that's really the film. And
uh we were in a real courtroom in Orange County
(46:16):
here where I'm from, and uh we I think we
lied on that one and then think we said we
were film students or whatever. And that's the other thing.
You got to do whatever you can to get your location.
But uh, we've been in hospitals, real hospitals, not sets.
We've been pretty fortunate when it comes to locations. And
(46:37):
I don't know if it's fortunate or lucky, but we've
had we've had some luck there.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
I'm going to say, you're probably fortunate. You know, if
you if it happens one time, you know, you're you're
you're lucky. If it happens like twice, it's because you
have a good team, you know what I mean. It's uh,
that's what That's what I've noticed. And you know, just
as you know, producing my own stuff, I've noticed that
you have to go in there and sell yourself. I
actually got an amazing sound stage one time just because
(47:06):
I was at the right time, at the right place
at the bar and I got to meet the right
people and I was like, oh, here we go, so
you know, and everything sort of worked out well and
you know, it's it's amazing how those things sort of
come together.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
Yeah, it really is. Man. There's no nothing to high design, man,
things You just you just got to have the love,
you got to have the passion, got to just want
to make movies. And then sometimes there's a lot of
there's a lot of roadblocks, man, you know, but every
once in a while there's something kind of cool that
comes along.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Yeah, very true, very true, Rocky. You know, Rocky, you know,
we were talking for about forty five minutes. Now, I
don't want to eat up. I know you have to run.
But you know, in closing, is there anything we didn't
talk about that maybe you wanted to discuss, or anything
you wanted to say just to point a period at
the end of this whole conversation.
Speaker 4 (48:01):
Absolutely, again. You know, the current film is Ditch Party,
and we do have a screening coming up in New
York on October twelveth, So I don't know if you've
got listeners out there in the New York area, but
I'd love to have you guys come out and hang
out with us. It's gonna be a fun night. It's
at the Anthology Film Archives.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Is there a Facebook event pageport.
Speaker 4 (48:26):
I believe it's we don't have one, but you can
find us on Ditch Party and you know Twitter, it's
at Ditch Party movie and I think we're on Instagram
and everything, so all the information will be leaked out
on there.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Cool and everyone listening. I will link to all that
stuff in the show notes so you can follow Ditch
Party and the again, you know, and I'll make sure
to put some information about the premiere. Rocky, Rocky Costanzo,
I want to say thank you so much for coming
on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (49:00):
Thank you so much, man. It was a lot of fun, uh.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
My pleasure and Rocky. Where you'll find you on online
your you know, your personal uh you know your personal
website or Twitter.
Speaker 4 (49:09):
My production company is Hourglass Pictures, which is a film's
at our Glass. I don't know if it's dot com
or dot net. I think it's dot net actually, or
you can find me on Twitter at Rocky Costanzo and
Facebook and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Yeah, Rocky, we just became Facebook friends.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
We did, man, And I'm actually kind of jealous of you, man,
because you're from Philly, which means that you are within
striking distance of Pats and Genos.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
You know, well, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna come clean.
Most Philadelphians don't eat a patch of.
Speaker 4 (49:45):
I had that feeling. I was going to bring it
up earlier, and I had that feeling. It's kind of
like us out here in California with the in and
out Burger. We have our you know, that's like the
big Everyone has to come out here. And I've had
actors that have going in from like New York or whatever,
and they when they just have to eat there. So
what what is the best spot? Then?
Speaker 3 (50:08):
I know, well, there's actually a couple, and it depends
what part of phil you come from. Uh there's Ishka Bibbles. Uh,
there's my personal favorite, John's ros Pork.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
There's also gyms on South Street, and then like the
other ones are kind of sort of up in the air.
It depends, uh, you know, but but those are the
main three that all Philadelphians sort of eat at. So
any any one of those, you know, will will be good.
And they're all different styles. By the way of cheese steak,
those three.
Speaker 4 (50:36):
Very cool, man, very cool. So I told you learned
something every day every day.
Speaker 3 (50:42):
I'm now going to start a new podcast about cheese
steaks in Philadelphia because I can educate everybody about the
what what what Philadelphians actually eat. But no, but you know,
I honestly I completely understand in and out thing. I
actually was asking a friend of mine who moved to
LA about that and he was like, he goes, Dave,
I I ate there like twice, I eat at places. Now.
Speaker 4 (51:01):
Yeah, absolutely, there's you know, there's there's a lot better
out there for you. But but yeah, I get it,
you know, I get the appeal.
Speaker 3 (51:12):
But everyone, it's Dave Bullis dot com. Twitter, It's at
dave Underscore Bullets check out ditch Party and I will
link to that in the show notes. Rocky again, thank
you so much for coming on.
Speaker 4 (51:22):
Thank you David. It was fun.
Speaker 2 (51:24):
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
a great job on this episode. If you want to
get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
head over to the show notes at Indie film Muscle
dot com Forward slash eight sixteen. If you have it already,
please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com, subscribe and
leave a good review.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
For the show.
Speaker 2 (51:42):
It really helps us out a lot.
Speaker 3 (51:44):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
Thank you again so much for listening to guys as always,
keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe
out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at
Indie Film hustle dot com. That's I N D I
E F I L M h U S T l
E dot com