May 15, 2024 • 28 mins
Según el Fondo Mundial para la Naturaleza la biodiversidad es una enorme red biológica de organismos naturales. Y...¿ por qué hablamos de todo esto? porque como de pronto ya has escuchado Colombia será la sede de La Conferencia de las Partes o por sus siglas en inglés COP16, la Cumbre de Biodiversidad más importante del mundo que se realizará en Cali entre el 21 de octubre y el 1 de noviembre de 2024.
Y para entender la importancia de este magno evento aquí en InformalMENTES preparamos una temporada especial sobre la COP16. En este primer capítulo te contaremos lo básico y luego iremos ampliando los temas para que puedas tener tú propia opinión frente a estos retos coyunturales que tenemos a nivel global. Nuestro invitado para empezar esta temporada es el investigador Benjamin Quesada, experto en clima y ambiente, y profesor de la Facultad de Ciencias Naturales de la Universidad del Rosario.
¡No te lo pierdas!
Y para entender la importancia de este magno evento aquí en InformalMENTES preparamos una temporada especial sobre la COP16. En este primer capítulo te contaremos lo básico y luego iremos ampliando los temas para que puedas tener tú propia opinión frente a estos retos coyunturales que tenemos a nivel global. Nuestro invitado para empezar esta temporada es el investigador Benjamin Quesada, experto en clima y ambiente, y profesor de la Facultad de Ciencias Naturales de la Universidad del Rosario.
¡No te lo pierdas!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If I tell you the word biodiversity, what do you think. Perhaps words
such as nature, forest rivers anda number of terms that relate to the
fauna and flora of the world cometo mind, and the truth is that
they are right. According to theWorld Wildlife Fund, biodiversity is a huge
biological network of natural organisms. Thiswhole long story I tell you to tell
(00:22):
you a little bit of old news. But Colombia, specifically in Cali,
will host the Conference of the Partiesor its acronym Cop Sixteen, which focuses
on biodiversity- related issues. Andmaybe you, like me, have heard
of this conference, but we reallydon' t know very well what you
' re dealing with or its importance. That is why today to begin with
(00:43):
our special on Cop 16 we receiveda great guest, Benjamin Quesada, professor
and researcher at the Faculty of NaturalSciences of the University of Rosario, with
emphasis on climate change and afforestation,the sciences, information and well done.
That is, informally he will helpus to better understand the importance of this
(01:07):
event, the issues it deals withand other issues. Welcome to informal Benjamin.
Thank you very much for the invitation. Good afternoon, everyone. Let
' s start with a section youcan' t miss. This one.
It is that for these sometimes confusingtopics, we all approach the subject through
very simple questions. So we knowthat we are all speaking the same language.
Is this twin bara slower? Pre- pretty twin bar over by the
(01:33):
way? We know that in theprevious edition of this conference, COP 15
was made in December of two thousandtwenty- two in Canada. So tell
us, what topic will be discussedat COP 15 and that we expect COP
16 to be spoken then COP isfirst to define what it is, because
it is an acronym conferences of theparties in English. Then, COP 15
(01:53):
took place in Montreal in December oftwo thousand twenty- two and was quite
historic, because almost one hundred andninety countries agreed to adopt a new global
biodiversity framework, which we are goingto talk about within the Convention on Biological
(02:14):
Diversity, which is an agreement thatseeks to take hold and reverse the loss
of biodiversity caused by man. Sothis global biodiversity framework is very important.
It has even a rather striking slogan, where it is intended to conserve thirty
(02:34):
percent of the earth, thirty percentof the world' s oceans for two
thousand thirty. If then thirty,thirty, thirty, then we will talk
about the four general objectives of thisglobal biodiversity framework. However, it should
be noted that this copy sixteen isgoing to be fundamental. Colombia will have
(02:57):
a very important role to play inensuring that countries commit to national biodiversity plans
with indicators to meet for the nextCOP 17. Finally, it should also
be pointed out that this is acopy of a conference on biodiversity. There
are also climate change events that occurevery year. These biodiversy cops occur every
(03:23):
two years and will have a lotto do with the COP thirty climate change
in Brazil. And that' sprecisely why you' re telling us that
Colombia is going to have a fundamentalrole, because it' s important that
this time they decided to do itin Cali, specifically here in Colombia.
Well, first of all Colombia isa country, because mega diverse. We
(03:46):
have not heard much about it,at the level of biodiversity, at the
level of biological diversity, of florafauna you have pointed out, but also
at the level of cultural cool diversityand also at the level of ethnic diversity
or diversity of research, education systemsand so on. Then we have a
(04:12):
lot to show in Colombia to makevisible. That' s why the government
launches people' s cop slogan.So there is already a very large mobilization
of various associative, ethnic, Afro- farmers sectors to be able to show
(04:32):
what is done in terms of managingbiodiversia, but also what is posed as
problems for the country, because thecountry, although it is a HotSpot as
it is said biodiversity, unfortunately,suffers from a lot of vulnerability to both
climate change and pollution as well asthe illegal trafficking of species that are already
(04:57):
causing loss of biodiversity. That weare seeing a very important figure to place
the context. We have since nineteenhundred and seventy an average decline of almost
seventy percent of species populations. So, that allows us a little bit to
dimension how nature is fading in frontof our eyes and how nature is the
(05:23):
basis of our economy. So Colombiahas a lot to do with it.
It is a hot spot of biodiversialso has things to show, It has
experiences of ecological restoration and the cityof Cali was chosen also because it is
a city that suffered a lot ofviolence. So, the motto is peace
(05:44):
with nature. Yes, the healthof ecosystems directly impacts the health of us
as human beings, and we cannotprotect ecosystems properly if we do not have
social peace and really that all peoplecan live in dignity. And this is
(06:06):
precisely why you mention that nature's health is equivalent to human health itself.
I believe that this is why thereare like two conferences of the parties,
precisely because, on the one hand, we are talking about biodiversity and,
on the other, climate change.But that' s the question I
think we ask ourselves sometimes. It' s because they' re divided.
It is necessary to talk about thetwo themes differently, not justly. That
(06:28):
' s a very good question andit results from a rather arbitrary compartment.
In fact, nothing says that theproblem of climate change is more or less
important than the loss of biodiversity.So that has been studied, in fact,
at the journalistic level. We havealso seen there a study that was
(06:53):
done in the United States, theUnited Kingdom and other countries where it is
noted that there are eight or thatis more media coverage of the problem of
climate change than the problem of theloss of biodiversity. To give you a
figure. Also at COP fifteen,in Montreal there was a Prime Minister,
(07:15):
the Prime Minister of Cana, butat COP twenty- one, well,
in the next COPS, we basicallyhad dozens of ministers and at the last
COP twenty- nine we had ninetyministers who moved to ninety countries for this
(07:38):
Cup. So that shows a littleof the avisal gap between the treatment of
biodiversity and the treatment of climate change, which would have to be seen in
the same way. In fact,I was a reviewer of what is called
a joint report between the Scientific Communityof Climate Change Experts, the IPCC and
(08:00):
the community of biologists and, well, many disciplines on biodiversity that are called
pibes. In fact, the formerPresident was a Colombian, Ana María Hernández.
This report yielded in two thousand twenty- one. That already puts you
(08:20):
as the dimension of why the scientificcommunities of climate change, of biodiversity are
coming together so recently, when wehad to have done so many years ago.
So, in all areas there seemsto be a compartment that should not
exist. In fact, at thelevel of the social movement we also see
(08:43):
that it is very active. Italso achieves very relevant results. The movement
to fight climate change, concrete inBerg, etc, is very organized and
this has been studied at a sociologicallevel. We see that really the Community
of Climate Change, of the socialmovement managed to make slogans very easy to
(09:07):
understand for the people of the common. No. So seo two is primarily
responsible for climate change. Then youhave to reduce the activities that produce so
two. But if I ask youwhat is the cause of the loss of
biodiversity, there are several. Thereare several. There' s climate change,
there' s air pollution, there' s water pollution, there'
(09:31):
s forest pollution, there' sillegal species trafficking, there' s invasive
species, there' s land use, there' s ocean use. So
we' re going to have movementsthat fight to protect the coalas, to
protect the bears, to protect thebirds, the plants, etcetera, but
(09:52):
very fragmented. So that can explainthe fact that they failed to assume as
a leading, synthetic role and let' s say with a clear slogan for
people. So the social movement onbiodiversity is more fragmented, and that'
s what people have difficulty understanding.That may partly explain why the Community of
(10:16):
Biodiversity and Climate Change has not cometogether so far. OK and I think
it' s very true this thingthat you say that, for example,
the media more covers what the 28thcop is and it' s really a
little unknown. That' s whyI think it' s a very important
issue to deal with, because reallywhat you mention biodiversity has been affected by
a lot of factors that we don' t really take into account to keep
(10:37):
you. Be aware of scientific events, do not forget to follow us on
our social networks as a rosary researchand look for our hashtag research or rosary.
And in this new season we wantto resume a slightly forgotten section that,
in fact, reminds us why wedo this podcast and is that it
says the patch where we choose questionsasked by students for our expert to clarify
(11:00):
that we listen. So he wantsthe three most important issues that the world
needs to pay attention to when talkingabout biodiversity. But what is the importance
of these types of events if reallythe countries that pollute the most, which
(11:24):
have the most responsibility for biodiversity loss. They are not truly committed to these
changes and formulate carbon bonds or measuresof the same system that prevent radical action.
The same is true of countries thatpossess great biodiversity, but have presidents
(11:46):
and officials who seek economic interests inthese areas. We saw as for example,
Bolsonaro was a president who gives theAmazon very hard, although he was
president of a country with the greatestbiodiversity surely in the world or among one
of the countries with the greatest ordressed in the world. And yet,
(12:07):
despite the fact that these agreements alreadyexisted, despite international pressures, because finally,
the leaders and the countries have thissovereignty to do to a large extent
what they want and those agreements theydo do to us, obviously respecting,
because what is already established and whatis already established is precisely what is being
thrown into the world. Yes,I' ve heard about COP 16,
(12:28):
but I don' t understand whatthis is about, because it' s
important. Well, I think thesetwo testimonies sum up pretty much what we
might have if we asked the generalpopulation and even the scientific community. One
first thing. It' s goodto ask ourselves if CAPS really are worth
(12:50):
it. That is, the questionis legitimate no, because if we see
climate change Cops, we are alreadygoing for the thirty edition in Brazil next
year. Then let' s looka little at the temperatures or the seo
two carbon dioxide, because they havenot stopped increasing these variables along the thirty
(13:16):
cups that have already been. Theloss of biodiversia was also not slowed down
by the occurrence of stax cops ofbiodiversia. Then it' s legitimate.
The question of telling us well willbe that we are binding enough. There
are sanctions against countries that do notcomply. How do we make them really
(13:43):
commit themselves and the other part ofthe population, because and that is a
little the object of podcasts made bythe University of the Rosary and all the
dissemination that it will carry out overthese six months is good. What is
not the cop, why this interestsus for ordinary people and for everyday life.
(14:03):
Let' s say then well thatwe will see why it is very
important for the citizen but I wouldlike to reply on the subject of the
first testimony. Indeed, the agreementsthat are reached, as they seek the
greatest consensus among one hundred and ninetycountries, are quite lax. Not then
(14:26):
will anyone go to prison if itdoes not comply with the Paris Agreement,
for example, which is the legallybinding agreement for countries that ratified a few
years ago to fight climate change.But that is a limitation, because we,
as citizens, walk when we donot comply with a law, a
(14:48):
treaty, something we have signed,because immediately comes the guillotine, the fine
let' s say. For us, then it is very ununderstandable. Why
there are no more binding agreements.For example, I give you one of
the goals of this global biodiversity framework, to ensure that all areas are subject
(15:09):
to integrated participatory spatial planning that takesbiodiversity into account. That is the goal,
one of the twenty- three goalsin this framework. That' s
for a lawyer, because it's super- lax. There' s
no encrypted indicator what happens if wedon' t guarantee it, because no
one goes to prison and then wecan see the Cops, I think like
(15:33):
a half- full glass, ahalf- empty bellow. If there were
no PAHO, we would surely beworse, because each country would go its
way, there would be no socialpressure, there would be no round table
where they could make more and moreambitious commitments. So I think they serve
(15:54):
the Cops, but they need astrong civil society. How this boy I
speak from his testimony of imposing tosay look, if they do not comply,
we will punish them, whether atthe polls, be legally, because
in Colombia you can also do climatelitigation and attack the State when it does
(16:18):
not comply, or attack a municipalityor a region when it does not comply
with agreements and these kinds of internationaltreaties. And good for the second testimony,
because we hope with these podcasts tobe able to make all the students
of the rosary know and beyond knowthat it is a cop for what it
(16:40):
serves and how they can be seenincluded and how they can show what is
done in Colombia in educational terms,in terms of research and also in social
terms. Yeah, totally according tothese spaces. We do so precisely so
that we can all learn more aboutthese issues that are the responsibility of all
of us. But on the firsttestimony, I would like to know that
(17:03):
I understand that all countries agree onthe same things, but, in your
opinion, countries, depending on theirdiversity, for example, we talk about
Brazil of Colombia, could have perhapsstronger or perhaps more fruitful agreements to support
their own biodiversity. Well, that' s a good question. What we
need to look at is that climatechange, and let us say the consequences
(17:32):
of human activity, is doubly unfair. That is a machine of injustices,
because the countries that have contributed leastto the loss of violence, the least
have contributed to climate change, whichare the countries of the global or tropical
south we will say will suffer fromthe worst consequences. So, for example,
(17:57):
let' s see how climate changeand biodiversity are linked, very specifically
in a world of two additional degrees. Since the industrial revolution, in an
additional two- degree world, thereare no corals in the tropics anymore.
That has already been seen in severalinvestigations. So we see how first climate
(18:22):
change goals have to be combined withbiodiversity goals. So yes, tropical countries
have to be protected. That iswhy, in fact, in the Paris
Agreement there are funds, funds thatwould have to be provided by the countries
(18:42):
of the North that are most responsiblefor climate change and the loss of biodiversity,
so that the global south can bemore adapted to climate change and the
loss of biodiversi. Most of thesefunds are essentially a loan then. It
is not a compensation, philosophy istotally violated and it is an additional chain.
(19:07):
If then the countries of the globalsouth of the tropics have to ally
themselves absolutely in the negotiations, theyhave to seek absolute convergence because they have
a common interest in having a lotof biodiversity, but also have too many
(19:30):
negative consequences that they have not causedto a large extent. If then that
is very important also to see thatthe emissions there are, the deforestation in
the tropical countries is not 100%responsibility of these countries. I mean Colombia
and Brazil. Why, well,because the cattle of Europe, of the
United States are nourished by soy,by other crops that are produced in tropical
(19:55):
countries and that cause deforestation, thenthere is indirect deforestation, indirect emissions from
countries of the South that we attributeto them, but that is totally unfair.
Then Colombia, Brazil and other countrieshave to look for a way with
civil society to impose on rich countries, between quotation marks or rich countries,
(20:21):
we could say, more responsible forclimate change, for the loss of biodiversity,
that they commit themselves, that theypay, that they repair, that
they compensate with funds that reach thesecountries. Yes, absolutely fundamental how to
understand this because I really believe thatthese are agreements made by the one hundred
(20:41):
and ninety countries, but that theymust also benefit the one hundred and ninety
countries in order to keep you informedof scientific events. Don' t forget
to follow us on our social networksas you hear research and look for our
research hashtag. Or rosary. Andnow let' s talk about there are
many rumors that will go around thesekinds of issues that are related to the
care of the environment and to clarifythem we have this section that is called
(21:06):
disprove me these that it is preciselythat to deny or confirm popular beliefs.
That' s true, that's true. No. Don' t
you? Don' t you?Don' t you? Don' t
you? Don' t you?Don' t you? Don' t
you? Don' t you?Don' t you? Don' t
you? Well, yeah, tellme this. And for this specific issue,
many believe that actions to combat climatechange or the loss of diversity belong
only to governments and authorities. Thisis true. We citizens have no responsibility
(21:30):
or ways of acting. No.No, obviously, we all have to
act and in all sectors. Thatis a key feature of climate change and
biodiversity loss. We see it verywell with climate change. Each activity that
in a certain way emits pseudos oremits greenhouse gases, i e methane or
(21:56):
other gases, as it contributes toclimate change. Obviously, obviously, we
have to have a differential approach.The Guaviare peasant is not going to have
to do the same as a businessmanfrom a large coal or oil company.
(22:17):
And there is a figure even forthat which was a report made by the
team of Picetti de Chancel on theinequalities in terms of responsibility for climate change
and showed that in Colombia, alreadyhalf of the population is meeting one of
the most ambitious goals of the ParisAgreement, which is the goal to one
(22:38):
five degrees, which allows not havingso many impacts, not seeing corals die,
so much, and so on.So, already half of the Colombian
population complies with the Paris Agreement,we are going to ask them to undertake
climate change mitigation and adaptation in priority. Well, clearly not. But when
(23:00):
we see the decile as economists say, that is, he ten percent with
the greatest economic resources in Colombia,they have a carbon footprint that seven times
what it would take to leave climatechange at just two degrees, seven times,
that is, they exceed but alot. So here we see that
(23:25):
in the area of social and environmentaljustice, because we would have to focus
the policies of research and adaptation toclimate change to these populations that have to
contribute more. It is a bitthe same as Colombia versus other industrialized countries.
The industrialized countries have to do muchmore than Colombia is going to be,
(23:47):
because within Colombia, the populations withthe greatest economic resources would have to
have an incentive to go to activitieswith less carbon or have less consumption,
etc. So, there are alreadyseveral economic possibilities, etcetera. So,
(24:11):
let' s say, it's more of an individual impact that we
can all have by reflecting on ourconsumption, reflecting on our mobility and seeing
a little carbon footprints, which iswhat we calculate also in the classes that
I give or other teachers, andseeing where we could reduce, because reducing
(24:36):
the carbon footprint is often also reducingyour electricity bill, water bill, sub
- invoice technology purchases. And thenthis individual stage is fundamental. But governments,
national policies have a lot to dowith it. A carbon footprint a
Colombian is not the same. Ifit' s 100 percent trucks society to
(24:59):
transport things, or 100 percent caryou suddenly have a little bit of electric
cars and trains. If then anational system based on mobility trains that is
much more environmentally friendly, it willmechanically reduce the carbon footprint of Colombians,
and these structural measures are much moreeffective than the small consumption changes I can
(25:26):
make, that you can make,or that I can make. Then there
are several levels where we can attackclimate change and the loss of biodiversity.
Yes, of course governments, becausethey have like this power and this power
to do it maybe faster and maybeas a certain way to force people to
what you mention, to use trains, to use electric cars as such perhaps
(25:48):
simpler measures. But I do believewhat you mention, that these individual actions
can also generate like this impact ifyou have some topic in mind that you
would like to speak bouquets in thisspace. You can write to us on
our social networks like arroba uere investigación. We are already closing this episode informally
if you thank us, Professor Benjamin, to accept our invitation to speak and
(26:11):
learn more now COP 16. Finally, there is something you would like to
tell those who listen to us,because first it is time to learn about
this POP. I haven' tsaid, but it' s an event
that happens less times than Hatley's comet. So, if you look
(26:32):
at the number of countries, ifyou look at the cops that happen every
two years, that' s uniqueto Colombia, to show what we know
how to do and students. Iwould like them to take up the subject
and show what they want to dohow Colombia is combating this loss of biodiversity
(26:52):
and these podcasts and these stages ofdissemination will therefore nourish this reflection of the
students a little. I hope so. Thank you very much, Benjamine,
to you also netizens thanks for sharingwith us another space of learning, chat
and patchy. Thus ends this episodeof informally is that it was under the
(27:14):
direction of Mara Brujes, coordinator ofscientific dissemination, and had the support of
Nelson Duarte in master control. Don' t forget that you can find us
on all networks like arroba or itwas research, tell us that you listen
to us with hashtag informally and ifyou want to share or repeat this episode,
don' t forget to look forus in Spreaker and Spotify. I
bid farewell from this space led bythe Directorate of Research and Innovation with the
(27:37):
support of the School of Human Sciencesand of u Rosario Radio. Soyano María
Duque, a journalism student at theUniversidad del Rosario and host of this episode,
was supported by Mario Castro, directorin charge of u Rosario Radio.
I' m waiting for you ina next edition of this Informal special is
where we' ll continue to learnfrom Cop 16. This was informally an
(28:00):
initiative of the Directorate of Research andInnovation of the University of Rosario, with
the support of the School of HumanSciences and Rosario Org
If I tell you the word biodiversity, what do you think. Perhaps words
such as nature, forest rivers anda number of terms that relate to the
fauna and flora of the world cometo mind, and the truth is that
they are right. According to theWorld Wildlife Fund, biodiversity is a huge
biological network of natural organisms. Thiswhole long story I tell you to tell
(00:22):
you a little bit of old news. But Colombia, specifically in Cali,
will host the Conference of the Partiesor its acronym Cop Sixteen, which focuses
on biodiversity- related issues. Andmaybe you, like me, have heard
of this conference, but we reallydon' t know very well what you
' re dealing with or its importance. That is why today to begin with
(00:43):
our special on Cop 16 we receiveda great guest, Benjamin Quesada, professor
and researcher at the Faculty of NaturalSciences of the University of Rosario, with
emphasis on climate change and afforestation,the sciences, information and well done.
That is, informally he will helpus to better understand the importance of this
(01:07):
event, the issues it deals withand other issues. Welcome to informal Benjamin.
Thank you very much for the invitation. Good afternoon, everyone. Let
' s start with a section youcan' t miss. This one.
It is that for these sometimes confusingtopics, we all approach the subject through
very simple questions. So we knowthat we are all speaking the same language.
Is this twin bara slower? Pre- pretty twin bar over by the
(01:33):
way? We know that in theprevious edition of this conference, COP 15
was made in December of two thousandtwenty- two in Canada. So tell
us, what topic will be discussedat COP 15 and that we expect COP
16 to be spoken then COP isfirst to define what it is, because
it is an acronym conferences of theparties in English. Then, COP 15
(01:53):
took place in Montreal in December oftwo thousand twenty- two and was quite
historic, because almost one hundred andninety countries agreed to adopt a new global
biodiversity framework, which we are goingto talk about within the Convention on Biological
(02:14):
Diversity, which is an agreement thatseeks to take hold and reverse the loss
of biodiversity caused by man. Sothis global biodiversity framework is very important.
It has even a rather striking slogan, where it is intended to conserve thirty
(02:34):
percent of the earth, thirty percentof the world' s oceans for two
thousand thirty. If then thirty,thirty, thirty, then we will talk
about the four general objectives of thisglobal biodiversity framework. However, it should
be noted that this copy sixteen isgoing to be fundamental. Colombia will have
(02:57):
a very important role to play inensuring that countries commit to national biodiversity plans
with indicators to meet for the nextCOP 17. Finally, it should also
be pointed out that this is acopy of a conference on biodiversity. There
are also climate change events that occurevery year. These biodiversy cops occur every
(03:23):
two years and will have a lotto do with the COP thirty climate change
in Brazil. And that' sprecisely why you' re telling us that
Colombia is going to have a fundamentalrole, because it' s important that
this time they decided to do itin Cali, specifically here in Colombia.
Well, first of all Colombia isa country, because mega diverse. We
(03:46):
have not heard much about it,at the level of biodiversity, at the
level of biological diversity, of florafauna you have pointed out, but also
at the level of cultural cool diversityand also at the level of ethnic diversity
or diversity of research, education systemsand so on. Then we have a
(04:12):
lot to show in Colombia to makevisible. That' s why the government
launches people' s cop slogan.So there is already a very large mobilization
of various associative, ethnic, Afro- farmers sectors to be able to show
(04:32):
what is done in terms of managingbiodiversia, but also what is posed as
problems for the country, because thecountry, although it is a HotSpot as
it is said biodiversity, unfortunately,suffers from a lot of vulnerability to both
climate change and pollution as well asthe illegal trafficking of species that are already
(04:57):
causing loss of biodiversity. That weare seeing a very important figure to place
the context. We have since nineteenhundred and seventy an average decline of almost
seventy percent of species populations. So, that allows us a little bit to
dimension how nature is fading in frontof our eyes and how nature is the
(05:23):
basis of our economy. So Colombiahas a lot to do with it.
It is a hot spot of biodiversialso has things to show, It has
experiences of ecological restoration and the cityof Cali was chosen also because it is
a city that suffered a lot ofviolence. So, the motto is peace
(05:44):
with nature. Yes, the healthof ecosystems directly impacts the health of us
as human beings, and we cannotprotect ecosystems properly if we do not have
social peace and really that all peoplecan live in dignity. And this is
(06:06):
precisely why you mention that nature's health is equivalent to human health itself.
I believe that this is why thereare like two conferences of the parties,
precisely because, on the one hand, we are talking about biodiversity and,
on the other, climate change.But that' s the question I
think we ask ourselves sometimes. It' s because they' re divided.
It is necessary to talk about thetwo themes differently, not justly. That
(06:28):
' s a very good question andit results from a rather arbitrary compartment.
In fact, nothing says that theproblem of climate change is more or less
important than the loss of biodiversity.So that has been studied, in fact,
at the journalistic level. We havealso seen there a study that was
(06:53):
done in the United States, theUnited Kingdom and other countries where it is
noted that there are eight or thatis more media coverage of the problem of
climate change than the problem of theloss of biodiversity. To give you a
figure. Also at COP fifteen,in Montreal there was a Prime Minister,
(07:15):
the Prime Minister of Cana, butat COP twenty- one, well,
in the next COPS, we basicallyhad dozens of ministers and at the last
COP twenty- nine we had ninetyministers who moved to ninety countries for this
(07:38):
Cup. So that shows a littleof the avisal gap between the treatment of
biodiversity and the treatment of climate change, which would have to be seen in
the same way. In fact,I was a reviewer of what is called
a joint report between the Scientific Communityof Climate Change Experts, the IPCC and
(08:00):
the community of biologists and, well, many disciplines on biodiversity that are called
pibes. In fact, the formerPresident was a Colombian, Ana María Hernández.
This report yielded in two thousand twenty- one. That already puts you
(08:20):
as the dimension of why the scientificcommunities of climate change, of biodiversity are
coming together so recently, when wehad to have done so many years ago.
So, in all areas there seemsto be a compartment that should not
exist. In fact, at thelevel of the social movement we also see
(08:43):
that it is very active. Italso achieves very relevant results. The movement
to fight climate change, concrete inBerg, etc, is very organized and
this has been studied at a sociologicallevel. We see that really the Community
of Climate Change, of the socialmovement managed to make slogans very easy to
(09:07):
understand for the people of the common. No. So seo two is primarily
responsible for climate change. Then youhave to reduce the activities that produce so
two. But if I ask youwhat is the cause of the loss of
biodiversity, there are several. Thereare several. There' s climate change,
there' s air pollution, there' s water pollution, there'
(09:31):
s forest pollution, there' sillegal species trafficking, there' s invasive
species, there' s land use, there' s ocean use. So
we' re going to have movementsthat fight to protect the coalas, to
protect the bears, to protect thebirds, the plants, etcetera, but
(09:52):
very fragmented. So that can explainthe fact that they failed to assume as
a leading, synthetic role and let' s say with a clear slogan for
people. So the social movement onbiodiversity is more fragmented, and that'
s what people have difficulty understanding.That may partly explain why the Community of
(10:16):
Biodiversity and Climate Change has not cometogether so far. OK and I think
it' s very true this thingthat you say that, for example,
the media more covers what the 28thcop is and it' s really a
little unknown. That' s whyI think it' s a very important
issue to deal with, because reallywhat you mention biodiversity has been affected by
a lot of factors that we don' t really take into account to keep
(10:37):
you. Be aware of scientific events, do not forget to follow us on
our social networks as a rosary researchand look for our hashtag research or rosary.
And in this new season we wantto resume a slightly forgotten section that,
in fact, reminds us why wedo this podcast and is that it
says the patch where we choose questionsasked by students for our expert to clarify
(11:00):
that we listen. So he wantsthe three most important issues that the world
needs to pay attention to when talkingabout biodiversity. But what is the importance
of these types of events if reallythe countries that pollute the most, which
(11:24):
have the most responsibility for biodiversity loss. They are not truly committed to these
changes and formulate carbon bonds or measuresof the same system that prevent radical action.
The same is true of countries thatpossess great biodiversity, but have presidents
(11:46):
and officials who seek economic interests inthese areas. We saw as for example,
Bolsonaro was a president who gives theAmazon very hard, although he was
president of a country with the greatestbiodiversity surely in the world or among one
of the countries with the greatest ordressed in the world. And yet,
(12:07):
despite the fact that these agreements alreadyexisted, despite international pressures, because finally,
the leaders and the countries have thissovereignty to do to a large extent
what they want and those agreements theydo do to us, obviously respecting,
because what is already established and whatis already established is precisely what is being
thrown into the world. Yes,I' ve heard about COP 16,
(12:28):
but I don' t understand whatthis is about, because it' s
important. Well, I think thesetwo testimonies sum up pretty much what we
might have if we asked the generalpopulation and even the scientific community. One
first thing. It' s goodto ask ourselves if CAPS really are worth
(12:50):
it. That is, the questionis legitimate no, because if we see
climate change Cops, we are alreadygoing for the thirty edition in Brazil next
year. Then let' s looka little at the temperatures or the seo
two carbon dioxide, because they havenot stopped increasing these variables along the thirty
(13:16):
cups that have already been. Theloss of biodiversia was also not slowed down
by the occurrence of stax cops ofbiodiversia. Then it' s legitimate.
The question of telling us well willbe that we are binding enough. There
are sanctions against countries that do notcomply. How do we make them really
(13:43):
commit themselves and the other part ofthe population, because and that is a
little the object of podcasts made bythe University of the Rosary and all the
dissemination that it will carry out overthese six months is good. What is
not the cop, why this interestsus for ordinary people and for everyday life.
(14:03):
Let' s say then well thatwe will see why it is very
important for the citizen but I wouldlike to reply on the subject of the
first testimony. Indeed, the agreementsthat are reached, as they seek the
greatest consensus among one hundred and ninetycountries, are quite lax. Not then
(14:26):
will anyone go to prison if itdoes not comply with the Paris Agreement,
for example, which is the legallybinding agreement for countries that ratified a few
years ago to fight climate change.But that is a limitation, because we,
as citizens, walk when we donot comply with a law, a
(14:48):
treaty, something we have signed,because immediately comes the guillotine, the fine
let' s say. For us, then it is very ununderstandable. Why
there are no more binding agreements.For example, I give you one of
the goals of this global biodiversity framework, to ensure that all areas are subject
(15:09):
to integrated participatory spatial planning that takesbiodiversity into account. That is the goal,
one of the twenty- three goalsin this framework. That' s
for a lawyer, because it's super- lax. There' s
no encrypted indicator what happens if wedon' t guarantee it, because no
one goes to prison and then wecan see the Cops, I think like
(15:33):
a half- full glass, ahalf- empty bellow. If there were
no PAHO, we would surely beworse, because each country would go its
way, there would be no socialpressure, there would be no round table
where they could make more and moreambitious commitments. So I think they serve
(15:54):
the Cops, but they need astrong civil society. How this boy I
speak from his testimony of imposing tosay look, if they do not comply,
we will punish them, whether atthe polls, be legally, because
in Colombia you can also do climatelitigation and attack the State when it does
(16:18):
not comply, or attack a municipalityor a region when it does not comply
with agreements and these kinds of internationaltreaties. And good for the second testimony,
because we hope with these podcasts tobe able to make all the students
of the rosary know and beyond knowthat it is a cop for what it
(16:40):
serves and how they can be seenincluded and how they can show what is
done in Colombia in educational terms,in terms of research and also in social
terms. Yeah, totally according tothese spaces. We do so precisely so
that we can all learn more aboutthese issues that are the responsibility of all
of us. But on the firsttestimony, I would like to know that
(17:03):
I understand that all countries agree onthe same things, but, in your
opinion, countries, depending on theirdiversity, for example, we talk about
Brazil of Colombia, could have perhapsstronger or perhaps more fruitful agreements to support
their own biodiversity. Well, that' s a good question. What we
need to look at is that climatechange, and let us say the consequences
(17:32):
of human activity, is doubly unfair. That is a machine of injustices,
because the countries that have contributed leastto the loss of violence, the least
have contributed to climate change, whichare the countries of the global or tropical
south we will say will suffer fromthe worst consequences. So, for example,
(17:57):
let' s see how climate changeand biodiversity are linked, very specifically
in a world of two additional degrees. Since the industrial revolution, in an
additional two- degree world, thereare no corals in the tropics anymore.
That has already been seen in severalinvestigations. So we see how first climate
(18:22):
change goals have to be combined withbiodiversity goals. So yes, tropical countries
have to be protected. That iswhy, in fact, in the Paris
Agreement there are funds, funds thatwould have to be provided by the countries
(18:42):
of the North that are most responsiblefor climate change and the loss of biodiversity,
so that the global south can bemore adapted to climate change and the
loss of biodiversi. Most of thesefunds are essentially a loan then. It
is not a compensation, philosophy istotally violated and it is an additional chain.
(19:07):
If then the countries of the globalsouth of the tropics have to ally
themselves absolutely in the negotiations, theyhave to seek absolute convergence because they have
a common interest in having a lotof biodiversity, but also have too many
(19:30):
negative consequences that they have not causedto a large extent. If then that
is very important also to see thatthe emissions there are, the deforestation in
the tropical countries is not 100%responsibility of these countries. I mean Colombia
and Brazil. Why, well,because the cattle of Europe, of the
United States are nourished by soy,by other crops that are produced in tropical
(19:55):
countries and that cause deforestation, thenthere is indirect deforestation, indirect emissions from
countries of the South that we attributeto them, but that is totally unfair.
Then Colombia, Brazil and other countrieshave to look for a way with
civil society to impose on rich countries, between quotation marks or rich countries,
(20:21):
we could say, more responsible forclimate change, for the loss of biodiversity,
that they commit themselves, that theypay, that they repair, that
they compensate with funds that reach thesecountries. Yes, absolutely fundamental how to
understand this because I really believe thatthese are agreements made by the one hundred
(20:41):
and ninety countries, but that theymust also benefit the one hundred and ninety
countries in order to keep you informedof scientific events. Don' t forget
to follow us on our social networksas you hear research and look for our
research hashtag. Or rosary. Andnow let' s talk about there are
many rumors that will go around thesekinds of issues that are related to the
care of the environment and to clarifythem we have this section that is called
(21:06):
disprove me these that it is preciselythat to deny or confirm popular beliefs.
That' s true, that's true. No. Don' t
you? Don' t you?Don' t you? Don' t
you? Don' t you?Don' t you? Don' t
you? Don' t you?Don' t you? Don' t
you? Well, yeah, tellme this. And for this specific issue,
many believe that actions to combat climatechange or the loss of diversity belong
only to governments and authorities. Thisis true. We citizens have no responsibility
(21:30):
or ways of acting. No.No, obviously, we all have to
act and in all sectors. Thatis a key feature of climate change and
biodiversity loss. We see it verywell with climate change. Each activity that
in a certain way emits pseudos oremits greenhouse gases, i e methane or
(21:56):
other gases, as it contributes toclimate change. Obviously, obviously, we
have to have a differential approach.The Guaviare peasant is not going to have
to do the same as a businessmanfrom a large coal or oil company.
(22:17):
And there is a figure even forthat which was a report made by the
team of Picetti de Chancel on theinequalities in terms of responsibility for climate change
and showed that in Colombia, alreadyhalf of the population is meeting one of
the most ambitious goals of the ParisAgreement, which is the goal to one
(22:38):
five degrees, which allows not havingso many impacts, not seeing corals die,
so much, and so on.So, already half of the Colombian
population complies with the Paris Agreement,we are going to ask them to undertake
climate change mitigation and adaptation in priority. Well, clearly not. But when
(23:00):
we see the decile as economists say, that is, he ten percent with
the greatest economic resources in Colombia,they have a carbon footprint that seven times
what it would take to leave climatechange at just two degrees, seven times,
that is, they exceed but alot. So here we see that
(23:25):
in the area of social and environmentaljustice, because we would have to focus
the policies of research and adaptation toclimate change to these populations that have to
contribute more. It is a bitthe same as Colombia versus other industrialized countries.
The industrialized countries have to do muchmore than Colombia is going to be,
(23:47):
because within Colombia, the populations withthe greatest economic resources would have to
have an incentive to go to activitieswith less carbon or have less consumption,
etc. So, there are alreadyseveral economic possibilities, etcetera. So,
(24:11):
let' s say, it's more of an individual impact that we
can all have by reflecting on ourconsumption, reflecting on our mobility and seeing
a little carbon footprints, which iswhat we calculate also in the classes that
I give or other teachers, andseeing where we could reduce, because reducing
(24:36):
the carbon footprint is often also reducingyour electricity bill, water bill, sub
- invoice technology purchases. And thenthis individual stage is fundamental. But governments,
national policies have a lot to dowith it. A carbon footprint a
Colombian is not the same. Ifit' s 100 percent trucks society to
(24:59):
transport things, or 100 percent caryou suddenly have a little bit of electric
cars and trains. If then anational system based on mobility trains that is
much more environmentally friendly, it willmechanically reduce the carbon footprint of Colombians,
and these structural measures are much moreeffective than the small consumption changes I can
(25:26):
make, that you can make,or that I can make. Then there
are several levels where we can attackclimate change and the loss of biodiversity.
Yes, of course governments, becausethey have like this power and this power
to do it maybe faster and maybeas a certain way to force people to
what you mention, to use trains, to use electric cars as such perhaps
(25:48):
simpler measures. But I do believewhat you mention, that these individual actions
can also generate like this impact ifyou have some topic in mind that you
would like to speak bouquets in thisspace. You can write to us on
our social networks like arroba uere investigación. We are already closing this episode informally
if you thank us, Professor Benjamin, to accept our invitation to speak and
(26:11):
learn more now COP 16. Finally, there is something you would like to
tell those who listen to us,because first it is time to learn about
this POP. I haven' tsaid, but it' s an event
that happens less times than Hatley's comet. So, if you look
(26:32):
at the number of countries, ifyou look at the cops that happen every
two years, that' s uniqueto Colombia, to show what we know
how to do and students. Iwould like them to take up the subject
and show what they want to dohow Colombia is combating this loss of biodiversity
(26:52):
and these podcasts and these stages ofdissemination will therefore nourish this reflection of the
students a little. I hope so. Thank you very much, Benjamine,
to you also netizens thanks for sharingwith us another space of learning, chat
and patchy. Thus ends this episodeof informally is that it was under the
(27:14):
direction of Mara Brujes, coordinator ofscientific dissemination, and had the support of
Nelson Duarte in master control. Don' t forget that you can find us
on all networks like arroba or itwas research, tell us that you listen
to us with hashtag informally and ifyou want to share or repeat this episode,
don' t forget to look forus in Spreaker and Spotify. I
bid farewell from this space led bythe Directorate of Research and Innovation with the
(27:37):
support of the School of Human Sciencesand of u Rosario Radio. Soyano María
Duque, a journalism student at theUniversidad del Rosario and host of this episode,
was supported by Mario Castro, directorin charge of u Rosario Radio.
I' m waiting for you ina next edition of this Informal special is
where we' ll continue to learnfrom Cop 16. This was informally an
(28:00):
initiative of the Directorate of Research andInnovation of the University of Rosario, with
the support of the School of HumanSciences and Rosario Org
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