KCAA: Inside Analysis with Eric Kavanagh (Sun, 15 Dec, 2024)

KCAA: Inside Analysis with Eric Kavanagh on Sun, 15 Dec, 2024

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ah, the information economy has a ride.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
The world is teeming with innovation as new business models
reinvent every industry industry. Inside Analysis is your source of
information and insight about how to make the most of
this exciting new era. Learn more at inside analysis dot com,
insideanalysis dot com. And now here's your host, Eric Kavanaugh.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
All Right, ladies and gentlemen, Hello, and welcome back to
the only nationally syndicated show all about the information economy.
It's called Inside Analysis. Your truly Eric Kavanaugh, and I'm
very excited to be talking about one of the hottest
topics out there. Who doesn't love a fun race car?
Who doesn't love a software defined vehicle?

Speaker 1 (00:49):
What is that?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
What is a software defined vehicle? We're going to find
out on the show today with a couple of experts.
We've got Michael Franz from FPT calling in and also
Florian Rhade who is with a company called Process. He
used to work at Tesla, so he's done some cool stuff.
He's out there in Las Vegas, so you know he's
having fun. I mean, we live in Vegas. I mean,
come on, it's twenty four to seven fund all the time.
So we're going to talk about what's happening in the

(01:12):
world of vehicles, and I think this is fascinating. I'm
an old timer, so I had cars where you had
to roll up the windows. You know, there's something special
about that. If the fuse breaks, you could still roll
the window down, so that's nice. But other than that,
we like to have automatic windows and automatic gosh darn
everything these days. I mean, the amount of innovation in

(01:33):
this space is really quite remarkable. And obviously Elon Musk
had something to do with that. Not everything, but he
had something to do with it. And our guests are
going to help us understand what is going on out there.
So maybe Florian, I'll start with you. Tell us a
bit about yourself and your company and how you got
all into software divined vehicles.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, thank you, Eric, and you got that right with Vegas.
It's twenty four seven fun all the time. I've been
in the automotive world for about twenty years now, and
the most interesting window that started in twenty twelve when
I joined a small company called Tesla Motors. It was
a very small it was about two thousand people in
the world, and we started building those cars. We never
called them sdvs or software defined vehicles. We just decided,

(02:13):
let's build a card the way we think a car
should be from here on forward. And it turns out
then at one point the industry labeled that SDVS. So
I was at that company for six years almost and
it was responsible for all the validation, so the testing
of the software before it goes out of the development

(02:33):
into the hands of the final of the end customers.
And we signed off over seven hundred software releases in
this six years. So it's a huge amount of software
we got out. And yes, let me just pick up
real quick with your window lifters, because electric windows are
not SDV features, just to take that out of their way.

(02:53):
There's EE features. That's the last generation of cars somewhere
started in the early eighties, and we see that currently
still out there. So those are actuated systems and they're
controlled by microprocessors. Sdvs go one step further where you
actually have a feature rich, updatable and upgradeable vehicle that

(03:14):
is continuously improving at least, so it is the plan
for the future from here on.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, that's really interesting stuff. And you can you can
adjust any number of things in that operating system, right
because it's got a computer. I mean, lots of cars
have had computers for a number of years, but not
a very sophisticated computer. And this one is even more
sophisticated than any of the ones that have come before it.
Can you kind of walk us through what goes in there?
What kinds of things can you update? Is it how

(03:39):
the car is running? I mean you're actually affecting fuel,
oxygen levels or something. Get into the details for us.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
So the cool thing is you actually already talk about
the next generation of SDV. So what we see currently
is that you actually have the controllers, the computers in
the car working together. This is the first generation of
an SDV, so you still have distributed computers in the car,
only one, but they are starting to work on things together.
So you have features and functionalities that are provided by

(04:06):
several computers in together. And I have a very simple
example from my Tesla times when they came up with
a feature that you can use your microphone from your
Bluetooth speaker set to talk to the people outside of
the car through the pedestrian speaker wanting speaker. So those
systems were never designed to work together, and those systems

(04:28):
were never interconnected with each other, but with software defined
vehicle functionality, they were actually able to make them work
together if that feature is really necessary, not as a
different question, but they make them make them work together
and provided an over the air software update similar to
what you know from your cell phone into the car
to offer you that new feature. The next generation will

(04:51):
be what we call HPC, so high performance computers, which
you can basically assume it is like a central computer
from this some logistics in the car. That is probably
going to be more like to one in the front
and one in the rear of the car because of
the harness and the wiring issues, but in general that
will be the next thing, and you can in very

(05:12):
very simplified ways. You can think about your four eighty
six IBM computer where you had to put all the
stuff together that it works to your laptop you're probably
looking into right now that is out of the box,
and you know you have shared memory between the graphics
driver and the hot drive and the process on this
kind of stuff. So that is in a very simplified
way where we are going.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, and a lot of the features do revolve around safety,
right like on keeping you in your lanes, alerting you
doing things of this nature. And I think there's been
a lot of advancement in the last few years of
identifying what is a bicycle nearby, what's a car coming
at me? What are these things? Because obviously the car
has to identify this and then act in real time.

(05:53):
You can't be you know, can't wait for an overnight
update when something's coming at you, right.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
And one of the reasons is because the compute in
cars is growing significantly. So what the features you just mentioned,
They need a lot of compute power in order to
do the vision and the perception and then the reaction
based on that. And we see this catching up in cars.
You have seen much higher compute power already in domestic

(06:18):
appli and applications like computers and so on. But cars
is a little different, beast, because they can be outside
at minus forty degrees celsius and they can be outside
at at here in Vegas we topped out at forty
seven degrees celsius one hundred and seventeen fahrenheit I believe,
so your cell phone will not work in either of
those conditions. So this is why the car industry is

(06:40):
a little behind. And this is maybe where Mike can
chip in a little bit from punintended from the chip
side of things, because it takes a little bit longer
to make those high performance compute chips ready for those
environments cars are used in.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, that's a good point. I did some work with
the Electric Racing Association over in Europe a couple of
years ago. It was a lot of fun. I mean,
those electric cars are super fast, and the young kid,
the driver, who is such a neat guy he had
he gave me the headline with the article. He said,
we have all the torque all the time. I was like, oh,
that's the headline right there. And he's such a wonderful man.

(07:21):
But I learned that there was a race in Spain
where where they had to cancel it because it was
too darn hot and the vehicles just wouldn't run. So
I'll throw it over to Michael. The real world can
be brutal out there from heat to cold. I mean,
you're in the Detroit area.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
In Michigan, so yeah, we're kind of about to start
going through some things. And yeah, Eric, you're right. The
vehicle environment is not monolithic. It's not in an air
conditioned environment. Ninety eight percent of the time, we have
various applications and conditions that are that the vehicles we
know and love have to operate in. That's why for

(07:58):
years manufactures of tested in arctic conditions, they're tested in
desert conditions, because they have to make sure that the
that the integrator of the vehicle and everything that's in
it can operate in a multitude of environments before it
goes on the road. It's it's not good enough to
launch it worth an application and so okay, well we'll

(08:19):
worry about that future or feature set in the next update,
in the next after ninety deaths, it's difficult to operate
in those environments like that, and and of course that's
where that's where the adeation meets the reality oftentimes in
the automotive industry, where where you can you can market
and position a product or a brand in a certain
in a certain way, and then the regular does have

(08:41):
to come in and say, well, guys, this is actually
what you've got, and this is why we classify it
as X Y Z right. And that's important because at
the end of the day, it's still a three ton
weapon in the wrong hands and needs to operate in
a very safe condition and of course, the more we
expose h cos to software, the more we have to

(09:01):
secure them because this is this this becomes the next
problem because as you open and expose yourself to the technology,
so you open and expose your product and your service
to bad actors around the planet. And again, not all
vehicles are created equal, right uh, and thever will be there,
there will be there will be manufacturers who will launch

(09:23):
soft and defined vehicle technologies that are not as secure
as everybody else's. And I'll give you a classic example
right from from wayback, the Volve passenger car brand. When
I say Vulbert, most people think of safety, and it
would take an extraordinary amount of money for any other
OEM to ever go and climb that mountain and say
we're safer than a Volve that that people just don't

(09:44):
do it. It's the same around software development, right The manufacturers
that are SUSPI personally, the manufacturers that take care of
the security and the securitization of their product as they
launch their feature sets and software will ultimately win the
race because we will we will unfortunately, see something's happened

(10:05):
as as as this technology matures and goes into the industry.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
Right well, and that is I mean, you bring up
an excellent point because you know and I often sit
and think about this stuff, security and protocols and technologies,
and of course the keybob comes along. And that's great
because you can find your car in a parking lot.
But if you lose your keybob, so can the bad guy.
If you describe your keybob and walk around the park
and I go beepep up there it is I go
steal that pull.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
We all know that the nightmare stories already of things
like key fobs that are that are not secured in
the security code hopping where we're bad at this can
can jam the signals, copy them and then open your
vehicle and drive right. This is not new. This has
been in the industry for many, many years, and it's
as the simplest function today. Pick the button, open the

(10:49):
vehicle right or lock the vehicle and proximity to the
vehicle full timelindow. All of those things really present a risk,
and that's no technology right. So we have to we
have to take care of all of these things in
a responsible way, and we have to take care of
it in a multitude of places and times and locations.

(11:11):
And geographies, and technology stacks and things like mobile networks
that run on different frequencies. The vehicles have to talk
on multiple frequencies in different geolocations to the back end
and from the back end to itself. So it's it's
it's a complex world, and we have and manufacturers and
the Tier one partners have a responsibility to look after

(11:34):
the vehicles that are already on the road for a
number of years, and they have to play for the
future at the same time. So it's a huge responsibility idea.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, that's a really good point because you do have
this entire arc of legacy vehicles out there. I mean,
you've got cars from the nineteen forty still driving around.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
And the reality, the reality on the road is today
in America, the average vehicle is twelve points something years old.
People are keeping the year their cars longer and longer
because affordability is an issue, you know, the economic climate's
an issue, right, we have to acknowledge these things. We
must push forward. But the reality on the ground is
that the vehicles we even introduce today are probably going

(12:12):
to be around for more than ten years, and somebody
has to take care of all of that technology stack
as it goes forward, you know the in it we
talk about technical debt in terms of in terms of
aging infrastructure and aging technologies. I believe that the industry
will needs to take care of the of the when
you say technical deat of today's vehicles twelve years from now,

(12:33):
because the vehicle in twelve years from now will look
very different to what it is today.

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Well, and that's I would sorry, I would argue I'm
more afraid of the vehicles of last year than I'm
afraid of the vehicles from thirteen years.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Ago from security point of view.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
Because absolutely, that's why my car that I owe, not lease,
is genious.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yes, So it's as soon as the vehicles start to
become a member and a participant at communication that goes around,
like we call this V two X or a vehicle
to everything or vehicle to vehicle v t V. This
is where security actually has to go a whole level
up because my vehicle can now tell Mike's vehicle to
slim the brakes for a variety of reasons, and if

(13:17):
I have an malicious attack planned on Mike, I can
just tell his car to stop. Obviously, this is a
very simplified example and It is not that easy. But
there are those things, and it is the fact that
this technology is out there is Mike mentioned, and it's
available not only for car makers, it's also available for
people who have bad ideas around cars. So I would

(13:40):
even argue they are ahead from the technology point of
view compared to the carmakers and OEMs right now from
security point of view.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Wow, that's interesting. And you know, you remind me of
something that I think is quite fascinating because these cars
are instrumented, and so you're gathering data from various points
like the break and the engine in other places like that.
I'm guessing that is incredibly valuable data for the next
generation of car design, right for being able to optimize

(14:10):
the wheels or the drive train or whatever the case
may be. Having that just massive treasure trove of data
coming in from the vehicles that's got to be fun
to work with, right.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
So the fact is that as an engineer, you only
know that you if you underdesigned your product, if you
overdesigned it, you never know because it will never come
back to you.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
Right.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
So they come back to service when something breaks, but
if they never come back to service, you don't know.
If you reached ninety nine percent of the capability over
lifetime or one percent, and one percent is a nightmare
because that means you completely overpaid the development of that product.
And we had at Tesla, we had those situations where
we actually looked at the data and we actively took

(14:51):
that information into consideration for cost downs and for next
generation vehicles, to not only make those things that broke
more sturdy and better for the next generation, but also
make those things that were completely overdesigned and therefore also
probably too heavy light more lightweight and better suited for
electric vehicles. But I have to say as well, depends

(15:11):
on where you are in the world. There's huge discussions
who owns that data. Is it the owner of the
car who creates that data by driving the car. Is
it the maker of the car, who you know, collects
the data in your car. Is it maybe a mixture
of that. So that has not concluded yet that discussion.

Speaker 4 (15:29):
And Florin has been a great engineer by saying, you
want to collect all the data all the time, of course,
and of course I always count to that by saying
and right now, because we're building it out and we're
discovering new things. The engineers are driving that push for data.
How much of that data is really needed when the
vehicle is launched, Right, at what point do we have

(15:52):
to say, well, not every thing is that needs to
be available real time live. Certain things have to be
other things can may be stored and up later because
at the moment the amount of data is exponentially ten
xing the more the more technology put in the vehicles,
and the more the it's algorithm based in in terms

(16:13):
of what are the performance of the vehicle, you know,
et cetera.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
So AND's a there's a very simple example because the
car communicates the exterior temperature with one hundred hertz inside
the car, but you don't have changes in the temperature
within milliseconds, so you don't really have to collect that
data on a ten millisecond base, right, every ten minutes
is enough. That's a very simple example. Everybody can grasp.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
No, that's a good point. And you know we're coming
up on the end of this first second here in
just a minute. But what I think is really fascinating
is the whole design process and how all these different
parts have to come together. And so you talk about
something having been over engineered or it's too heavy, or
it's too expensive. You know, these days, we're getting to

(16:57):
the point where you really can map out and understand
how much time it took to build this part or
that part, what the parts cost themselves. My point is like,
we're so much better today than we were probably even
twenty years ago in terms of being able to really
understand what is the total cost of ownership, what is
the cost of all the personnel who went into the

(17:18):
design phase to get us to this next stage? And
how do you prioritize That's what I'd love to understand
is as you as you roll out one one car,
the twenty twenty five version, I'm sure immediately the engineers
are already thinking to the twenty twenty six version, you know,
what should we change for that? Do weeople want more
do they want a better gas mileage? Do they want

(17:40):
better comfort?

Speaker 4 (17:41):
You know?

Speaker 3 (17:41):
And then knowing like how to compartmentalize all that stuff,
that's got to be a fascinating series of meetings and
discussions and decisions that are made to determine you have
to hit certain deadlines and okay, this is why it's
going to be for next time. Well, folks, don't touch
that that'll be right back by a fantastic conversation about
software divined vehicles. You're listening to Inside Analysis.

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Speaker 2 (22:04):
Welcome back to Inside Analysis. Here's your host, Eric Tabanac.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
All right, folks, back here on Inside Analysis, talking all
things software divined vehicles. We've got Michael Franz on the
line from FPT and Florian Road from IE Process and
we're just chit chatting about what goes into all this.
The decision making process and decoupling came up as a
as a key topic to dive into, so I'll throw
it over to Florian first. When you say decoupling software

(22:38):
from hardware, what do you mean by that?

Speaker 1 (22:39):
So originally cars were designed mechanical, electrical, and software, and
this all came together to what we call SOP the
start of production, and then you basically deliver that car
to you know, the dealerships. They start selling that for
a couple of years and you and your engineering team
in all those three branches start over for the next
generation and continueually. At Tesla we started this decoupling completely,

(23:03):
so the new vehicles are inheriting the software of the
other vehicles. So basically what you see out there in
Tesla is one software platform that okay, it's a little
bit of configuration is different per car, but in general
there's one software platform that runs on all their cars,
so it's decoupled from the actual version of the car.
So a Model ass and a Model three is technically
the same software with certain varieties in there. And so

(23:26):
like this, when your car gets into a next generation,
from mechanical point of view, your software is actually not
waiting those four years for that. It's continuously evolving and
is then applied to new platforms that are going out.
So and therefore it's the software and the hardware is
decoupled from each other.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
That's greatl and Eric just just the layer on top
of that. We used to have in this industry an
eight to ten year window of a vehicle, and round
about four or five years you get a midlife cycle
impulse or a mid life cycle update with the manufacture
which changes the front bumpers. They change the light a
little bit on the outside. You may get a couple
of pain configurations, maybe one or two more interiors, and

(24:05):
instead of the last year or two of that vehicle,
you get the full house, right the manufacturer throw the
full month you hated, all the options you were paying
for before, and now built in because now they want
to move the metal and you suddenly you get the
best wheels and entire packages, You get the best engines,
and off it goes and they ride that vehicle into
the sunset. Because in the background, over the last eight
to ten years, the engineering and design teams have been

(24:28):
working on the new version right and suddenly you get
to the current situation in the market right now, where
the pressure is on and the OEMs have all turned
around inside themselves trying to figure out, how do we
get to release a vehicle in eighteen months from scratch
or a blank piece of paper because manufacturers in China
are doing it. How are they doing it? How is
this possible? And what Florida talks about into the decoupling

(24:50):
a software attack is exactly that they use the same
software platform. It's almost like using a software platform to
build a home appliance, and you can and you can
generate four or five brands or looking different, but they
all do essentially the same thing. This is the way
that the industry is moving, and this is causing pressure

(25:11):
in the market because in the industry, because the need
is accelerating to launch new product faster and faster at
lower cost, and based only on the fact that you
can redesign the shell in the vehicle basically and some
of the underpinnings and the performance, but the software driving
that vehicle is actually similar, very similar, ninety eight percent

(25:32):
copy in.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, that's that's very cool stuff. And I'm guessing that
you've got some good digital twin software out there, right
to design the new cars and to kind of test
them in a virtual world and see what happens.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
Right, canors?

Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, Well, the term digital twin is used for actually
a variety of things, right, So there's no one digital twin.
So some people hear that and say, oh, this is
just like a simulated car. You can just like see
it through the three D you know, glass something like this.
But there's a variety of digital twins. There's much much
more simpler ways out there, where you just have certain

(26:06):
models or certain algorithms and you test them all the
way up to like packaging digital twins, where you figure
out can that seat move enough to the back without
you know, hitting the knees of the person behind you.
There's a very different digital twins. So they're very purpose built.
And the short answer to your question is yes, there's
a lot of software simulated parts or versions of that vehicle.

(26:29):
And I to go back to some anecdotes. I remember
it was long time ago, so ten years ago. I
saw Elon Musk with some Oculus rift thingy handing around
in the air, and so he was checking out the
Model X design in a virtual environment, and that we
couldn't see because he was just sitting in the middle
of the office and waving his arms around. So it
was hilarious. But this is where we are going, right,

(26:52):
So the the design and the packaging and all that
stuff that is going all virtual before it goes in
crash testing. We did crash testing ninety nine percent in simulation.
The first car, the first Model three. I believe that
crashed was at the crash test facility for the actual certification,
so we didn't crash any of that before and it

(27:13):
was spot on with the simulations. So in software. We're
actually doing this as well now, so we have software
environments virtual ECUs. It is one of the buzzwords this
year in the industry where you can test your software
without the hardware. And this is where it's getting really
important you integrate it with other pieces of software and
with other pieces of the car, because this is where

(27:34):
we see the most challenging challenges. It's getting more complex,
it's getting more fun and interesting, but integration is the
large challenge we are all facing. So simulation is helping
us a lot there.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
Yeah, I'll give you another. I'll give you another ideaic.
Driver monitoring, right, there's a legislative push to get driver
monitoring more and more into vehicles going forward. This is
camera tech watching your eyes and and and the camera
can tell when you're getting drowsy based on certain tael
points better than any better than your your life partners

(28:07):
sitting in the in the in the seat based a
right that they're watching the speed of how you're blinking
your eyes, how long your eyes are closed in a blink,
and that's triggering the warning signals to to to pull
over and stop the vehicle right now. In order for
that to get tested, it would take hundreds of thousands
of hours of a guy or a girl behind the

(28:29):
wheel of a car driving around the pill they're literally
starting to pass out. Simulating that monitoring is a is
a deal breaker in terms of in terms of getting
that technology to get passed and implemented safety into vehicles.
And it's a it's a crass critical component, right, you
need to be able to have this, And I think
it's a fantastic idea that that the driver monitor is

(28:49):
not to monitor you and what you're doing. It's to
monitor that you're not pulling a steep behind the wheel.
And and if we have the capability to do that,
then for me, I believe those are those are features
and functions that are all great to him.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Well, and it is great, you know. It's like when
I go to the airport. Sometimes I get annoyed by
going through all the security stuff, but it's like the
argument is, hey, if we catch one person who was
trying to do something bad, it's worth all the effort.
It's the same in the car industry because let's fax
it man, Like you said, it's a two three thousand
pound weapon if it's not managed properly. And so that's

(29:22):
why these safety features are so valuable and so important,
and that's good stuff because you know, people they push
the envelope. I've been there myself. I'm driven longer than
I should have when I started getting tired trying to
make some hail, you know, while the sun is shining,
and then you get that little warning ding ding ding.
It's like, okay, I do need to pull over. That's
when life's like I told you, let's pull over.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, Eric, after one second, like yeah, Eric, I have
to give you a quick dose of reality. Our cars
are not two three thousand pounds double that oh wow.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
And heavy because are the badges? Right? But Eric, I
think it's going to go further than just the coffee
cup on the dashboard right that, that's where it started.
You don't time to take a break because it's timing
how long you've actually been running in the vehicle. It's
going to it's going to get to a point where
the vehicle is going to going to take over you
aside and into a safety zone and switch off. Right.

(30:12):
Not because people ignore the safe round right, I mean
we have we have we have maximum speed limit signs
all over the place, and do people listen to it? No,
they don't. They're local it, they don't accept it. They
just do whatever they want to do. So so so
I think it's important, and I think it's even it's
it must be pervasive in the industry, that type of solutioning,
especially heavy duty trucks. You know, we move seventy odd

(30:36):
percent of our freak by road in North America. We
need to really think about those kinds of things and
and say, hey, mister driver, I know that you're allowed
X number of hours per per week or per month
on the road, but actually, on this specific trip, you
are actually starting to do those or let's get you,
let's get you safety pulled to the side so we
can sort that up, you know. And I think that

(30:57):
that that kind of check out us, right.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah. Well, and it's like I've been fascinated just in
my own life noticing what algorithms can notice about you,
like your behavioral patterns. People don't realize how transparent they are, frankly,
but a machine is just monitoring behavioral patterns, and those
patterns of getting drowsy are pretty significant and pretty clear,
and so it's wonderful. I mean, you can't really calculate

(31:22):
how many lives are saved, but you know for sure
that lives are being saved, right.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
And it's not only that right. Also as a medical emergency,
for example, I'm not only assuming that people does away
behind the wheel, but there's also people have medical emergencies.
And just to close the loop, I think this is
a great example of SDV as well, because you have
a camera feature that the texts that there is something
wrong with the driver. It then hands over that information
to the autonomous driving feature set off the car, which

(31:49):
then together with the map system and with the cameras
outside of the car, safely pulls that car over and
starts an e call to bring you to medical service
you need. So this is a it's a simple but
good example how things work together even though they are
separate parts of the car.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
Yeah, that's an excellent point because people do have a
cardiac arrest or a stroke and a number of things
can happen, and if your vehicle can then take over
and understand what's happening, move you to the side, get
you so you're not going to harm yourself or someone else,
and then exactly call the the you know, call the
paramedics to come get you. And that is a wonderful
confluence of technologies to help preserve people lives and of

(32:31):
course the car too, right because you know, if someone
falls asleep behind the wheel man, whoo, it goes back
real fast. Yeah fast.

Speaker 4 (32:39):
If eighty miles an hour down a Tennessee highway and
that happens, they could do some trouble, right.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Oh yeah, Well, and you know, just the other day
we're driving back. In fact, last night I was driving
and you hit the bump like that, and my daughter
is like, why is it doing that? I said, because
it's warning you as you're going around a curve and
you don't want to be in the oncoming lane around
a blind I was very proud of myself when my
daughter picked up what a blind curve is?

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yes, this is a very analog feature. You encount that there.
We're working on the digital version of that.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
That's funny. It's a very analog feature. And you know
blind turns. I mean, all it takes is one accident
when you're younger to really appreciate the significance of an accident,
of a car accident. And I'm on the count of guy.
When I'm driving, I'm always thinking, and then there's a
blind turn. Like, be careful, man, because you never know
someone could be losing control. There could be an ice

(33:31):
patch or something. And you know, if you're in a
small car like my Miata and some dump truck comes
around that corner, man, let me tell you it's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
This brings us back to what I said earlier to
vehicles to vega communications. So if you have those blind
turns right in the car in front of you and
counted the ice patch, it will actually tell your car,
not your Miata, but your connected car will get that information.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Right.

Speaker 3 (33:54):
That's so where this is a good topic to dive into.
How far along are we in that vehicle to vehicle communication.
So if you have two new Teslas, for example, what
you're saying is that they and how do they sense?
Is it a sort of a GPS driven thing that knows, okay,
you're now in my vicinity and you know you're coming
around a turn like can all those factors actually get

(34:17):
processed in real time to trigger a warning like that?

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (34:20):
So first, I think we are already at a very
good point within a certain brand. So tesla to tesla
I think is much more evolved than folks who wanting
to BMW or something like this, because they are still
working on as on some standards because they have to
speak the same language so to say right, but in
general yes, you're correct. So there is something we call geofancing,
so they know which area they are and they're basically

(34:42):
similar to your cell phone. They just book into look
I'm in this area. Now I'm driving through San Francisco,
and then it's it's actually called CV two X or
cellular vehicle to Everything. So this is when the cars
use the cell network to go basically through a satellite
or through I mean not an actual satellite up there
as a sort of server and talk to the other car.

(35:03):
And the other thing we also we will see within
the next few years is how they talk to the infrastructure.
So the red light communicates the status of a red
light to your car. That can reduce your consumption because
your car will actually on out a pilot will slow
down earlier and come to a stop without wasting energy.
Stuff like this. So this is happening in controlled environments

(35:24):
and in smaller patches already. Over the next five to
ten years, we will see that rolling out really in
a way that everybody realizes it and as a simple
add on on that. So I have a friend who
runs a company who works to get green lights for
emergency vehicles, and I say, wow, but you would have
to get every light online. This will take you one

(35:46):
hundred years. And he said no, you know, actually where
you live in Las Vegas, more than ninety percent of
the traffic lights are online already. Yeah, so we don't
know because we don't focus on that technology, right, But
a lot of environments, metal technology is already ready for
all of the stuff we're talking about. So it's it's
it's getting there. It's about to get it all together.

Speaker 4 (36:07):
I'll give you another example, Eric, there's there's currently a
rollout of a program for emergency services to notify certain
brands of vehicles that they are in proximity of an
emergency vehicle. It's coming up behind you or to your left,
or to your right or in front of you, based
on your orientation of the vehicle. That kind of that

(36:28):
kind of technology, I believe is really a great example
of using that cellular down to single cell information and
repeating it across across even a different brand. I mean,
it'll be a fire truck telling or whatever product that
that's coming as soon as that becomes pervasive. That type
of thing is great because it starts to clear the

(36:51):
emergency lane, make the vehicles pull over the way they
should pull over. You're you're not looking around rubbernecking to
figure out where is the firetruck or the ambulance because
nobody can ever tell, but you know it's behind you
and it's approaching, right. So that's a simple example of
that vehicle to x that vehicle to anything environment and
how that is going to start becoming more and more

(37:12):
of evasive as it goes along. Of course, it's very
difficult to get things like in the built environment to
talk to the vehicles, or as simple example is who
owns the traffic light and the data coming in and
out of the traffic light?

Speaker 3 (37:26):
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll pick us out of
the break Folks, don't touch up down or you're listening
to in someone elsis interciting.

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Speaker 2 (42:04):
Welcome back to Inside Analysis. Here's your host, Eric Tabanac.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
All right, folks, back here on Inside Analysis talking to
a couple experts in software divined vehicles. Such cool stuff
out there, and I'll throw it over maybe to Michael
first and then to Florian. I remember learning this ultimate
sales pitch for self driving cars, and that is no
more traffic jams, right, because if you can orchestrate, if

(42:35):
you can orchestrate every vehicle in this environment, you won't
have the darn traffic jams anymore. I mean you can
at least expedite traffic at high peak times to get
through difficult periods of time, because who likes a traffic jam.
Nobody likes a traffic jam, nobody. I can't live in
traffic jams. I'd lose my mind in a traffic jam.
I will pull over and do something else for an

(42:56):
hour to not have to sit there in a traffic jam.
But go ahead, what do you think, Mike?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
And you're going to continue pulling over to do something
else while do you experience the traffic jam for probably
as long as you and I still have a valid
driver's license. And the reason for that is because it's
the simple er physics. Right. Two, Our solid objects cann't
occupy the same space at the same time, godless of
the algorithm. Right. The bottom line is we are still

(43:23):
working eight to five as you were in the industrial age,
when we are way past information age. And this is
the reality that we are all we all signed up for. Right. So,
if you're in Washington and you have in DC, and
you have to do that run in that side of
the world. If you're in Dallas Fort Worth, you have
to do those run in Atlanta. It's not going to
change because everybody's still on the road. Right. We may

(43:44):
smooth out the edges, we may we may save a
couple of minutes, but the bottom line is a reasonable
I will work at five and at home and try
and be onn by six six thirty. And that means
that a million people need to be on the road
at the same time. That's right. And we hopefully we
have less accidents, which we use the lane stale pit
which means it's pits mud and and and hopefully we

(44:04):
come to our interne with society and go in the
information age to be really all left to knock off
at the same time, can we can we maybe think
a little differently about the work living, you know, But
that's another story for another day. But that's yeah, the
bottom line is and and if you've ever been just
like Bengal or Delhi, you know that there's no way
that that fully autonomous vehicle is going to solve any

(44:27):
traffic problems in that part of the world in any
time soon. Right. So that's that's funny the way it is.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
I got a little bit of a ray of sunlight
for you here, Eric.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
So it's so so first in the sales pitch.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yeah, so actually I've just picked up what Mike said.
So there are a couple of different reasons why you
have a traffic jam, right, So one of them is
congestion due to a high frequency, a hi high number
of vehicles at the same time. There Actually, yes, Mike's writer,
can't occupy the same space with more than one vehicle,
But we can reduce the space between vehicles, so that
makes that a little better. We call it plattooning for example,

(45:01):
So you have the vehicles communicating with each other, that
takes out the need for the distance in between them,
and you can have the basically like pearls on a string.
Then the other thing, which is I think is much
more important, is on accidents as a cause of a
traffic jam, and that is our all common goal to
reduce the accidents to a minimum by applying those features

(45:24):
and functionalities in software and in the vehicles. And like,
I don't know the percentage of traffic jams caused by
accidents versus congestion, but I know that traffic jams caused
by accident in combination with congestion are the worst. So
we try, we try our best to get really the safety,

(45:44):
and that's the number one on the sales pitch, right,
it's safety, then it's comfort, and then it's you know,
all the other stuff, and like that we reduce your
promises traffic jams, hopefully by reducing a number of accidents
on the road.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
No, that makes sense, that's good stuff. You're right that
when you get an accident and you have congestion and
all these things at once, and it's snowing outside or something,
that's when it all kind of falls apart there. I'm
curious to know, you know, Google and of course what
is it? Weighs and some of these other apps are
getting very good at being able to sense how many
cars are in a certain area. You get these warnings

(46:20):
on your phone. How much of that factors into what
you guys work on. Are you able to tap into
their system and understand how they do that. I know
you talked about standards and protocols and things, but where
are we in terms of really sharing that information even
in real time at scale?

Speaker 1 (46:36):
I think traffic we are like there, so sharing traffic information,
you can have that down to the granularity of a
couple of meters. Other topics, it's a little tricky, but
there's also sometimes there's contractual reasons. There is you know,
non disclosure agreements and so on. But on the traffic
side of things, I think we're spot on. It's available

(46:57):
to you as an individual. It's the same available to
your computer in your car, so they can do intelligent
route planning, they can do intelligent charge planning, if you
choose to go electric, they can take all this into consideration.
So I think that's a great example of how collaboration
should work, and it should actually work in other areas

(47:19):
soon as well. But the traffic spot on already working.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
I think I think that the next generation overlay is
really what I call what we call precise position in
writing traffic. So at the moment your you're mapping technology
that you use, probably Apple, Corplay or Android or Ways
or whatever you're using, is telling you that you're driving
down Main Street going north right, versus it's not telling
you you're in lane two or three on Main Street

(47:45):
and you and lane two means you must go straight right.
So precise position is really getting that vehicle to be
I can get you within centimeters or millimeters or less
than an inch of where you actually are as a
vehicle in those lanes because that that that starts to
help you and the vehicle understand where when the autonomous

(48:07):
LUs system or the system driving system says turned right,
it knows you have to be in the right lane
of three. And if you are not in the right
lane of three and a cratical example, sometimes you're driving
them already and you get a eglection the car things
you at to McDonald's parking lot, any lot of the
intersection right, that is not precise position. Precise posision means
it got to know you're there right, And that's that

(48:28):
could be done with a myriad of ways. It can
be done by a satellite precise position overlayd of the
fund network. It can be done by camera and light
our sensing technologies based on other vehicles around in proximity
to put you in the in the correct lane. And
probably it will be a combination of all of that
stuff as it goes forward, but that for me would
be the next generation of precise positions. So and then

(48:51):
it starts to help things like traffic congestion, because then
the built environment says, oh, hang on, Eric has got
fifty five guys in girls behind them in the right
plane all trying to get into the stadium to watch
the game. Let's open that turn right signal fifty five
seconds longer per go so we can start to alleviate
that cue. Right. And then we started to talk about
smart systems live on the algorithm based solutioning. Right. I

(49:14):
love that.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
I can't wait for that.

Speaker 4 (49:16):
That.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Finally, the traffic lights are not just green for empty,
you know. I have like literally like I'm waiting at
a red light and there's tumbleweed coming through, and it's
like why Right. But the good news Eric, here is
everything that Mike was talking about is actually ready to go.
So we see that rolling out already. So this is
actually the state of the art on the R and
D side of things. We are seeing this coming out

(49:37):
with new generation cars, the traffic light shifting and or
changing in my favor, I haven't seen that yet, but
I'd like to see that soon.

Speaker 4 (49:45):
We can tray about it.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yes, but it's a good snapshot of where the technology
is already.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Yeah, what's possible? Right? Yeah? And Eric, the precise position,
I'll give you another sort of example of where it's working.
I never culture sector, So autonomous vehicles in agriculture is
already pervasive. It needs to be because we need people
to do work in large areas at the same time. Right,
and when you're spraying crops with insecticides or with chemical enhancement,

(50:14):
whatever you have to do on a farm, I don't know.
There are legislative requirements around where you must stop and
start the spraying the of those crops, and those are
defined geographically as a very precise line. And when you
use precise positioning, you can actually dictate where that spray
actually starts and stops autonomously already because the vehicle can
recheck to that level because they can map those areas

(50:37):
very well. So it's just to give you an idea
of how that technology can really overlay right into adjacent industries.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Well, that's good stuff. And then you know urban planning
for example, understanding. I remember I interviewed a guy in
the earliest days of my career who worked for the
Illinois Department of Transportation, and he told me a couple
of interesting things. He said, you know, one is, when
you plan to build new highways, you cannot project out
the new traffic you'll expect to get based upon this

(51:06):
new highway. You have to build at least back then
you had to base it upon current traffic patterns and
so there's a lot of effort that goes into that.
And you know, getting back to the data side of things,
we got about a minute and a half left here.
All this data is very useful. I mean for like potholes,
for example, do you guys see that program with Domino's
Pizza with like call in tol us What a podolism
will fix it for you? Almost Like that's brilliant.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yeah, even though I don't think the cities have the
problem that they have people sitting around not knowing what
to do and waiting for somebody calling in for a
portol But I'd like to jump on on that really
quick with like a twenty second thing about AI, because
we haven't really talked about AI. But this is where
AI starts to shine a lot in our industry because
we gather so much data and there's different approaches on AIS.

(51:47):
As the server based AI, which we call a data lake.
You just dump all that data in there and you
let the artificial intelligence go through and understand what do
we learn out of all this data? And then the
other thing is one what we have not seen yet,
but we will see soon is what is called h
ai so Edgai means is ai actively learning in your
car and it starts to make improvements to the behavior.

(52:11):
So this is probably a complete different additional segment of
an hour. So I will not I will stop right here.
But as you can hear, we can talk about that.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
We can for you that one absolutely well.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
This has been absolutely fascinating. Look these gentlemen up online, folks.
Michael Franz, it's f R A N S. The last
name on LinkedIn and Florian Road. These gentlemen are car aficionados,
they're experts, and they're helping us get to the next
generation of a good quality drive, that's safe, that's fun.
And I love that line. You say you feel quality, quality,

(52:44):
feel quad but I like that. We'll send an email
phone to be in the show. Info at inside analysis
dot com. We'll talk to you next time you've been
listening to Inside Analysis.

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Speaker 15 (53:56):
NBC News Radio, I'm Lisa Carton. Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro
Majorcis says Americans should not be concerned about a recent
surge in drone sidings across the country. Myorcis told ABC's
This Week that rules have recently been changed allowing drones
to fly at night, which could be a reason why
people are spotting them more often.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
There are thousands of drones flown every day in the
United States, recreational drones, commercial drones.

Speaker 15 (54:23):
He added, that the Department of Homeland Security doesn't know
of any foreign involvement in recent drone sidings. Despite this,
Majorcis said federal and state authorities would benefit from more
legal authority to combat problematic drone activity. Senator Mitt Romney
says he expects jd Vance will be the GOP presidential
nominee in twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 10 (54:43):
If you were to ask me who the nominee will
be in twenty twenty eight, I think it'll be jd Vance.

Speaker 15 (54:47):
Romney made the prediction on CNN's State of the Union
Lisa Carton NBC News Radio.

Speaker 16 (54:53):
Colorado two way star Travis Hunter wins the Heinsman Trophy,
beating out Boise State running back Ashton Gentsea. The Warriors
acquire Nets point guard Dennis Schreuder in exchange for de
Anthony Melton. NBA Cup semi Finals Thunder over the Rockets
one eleven ninety six. Jay gilges Alexander with thirty two,
Giannis with thirty two as the Bucks beat the Hawks

(55:13):
in the other semi final one ten one oh two.
College basketball Number one Tennessee holds off Illinois sixty six
to sixty four. Number two Auburn routs Ohio State ninety
one fifty three college football. Navy upsets Army thirty one
to thirteen. Meanwhile, Louisiana Tech will replace Marshall as Armies
opponent in the Radiance Technologies Independence Pool. NFL News Cowboys

(55:36):
corner Trayvon Diggs left knee surgery. He's out for the season.
Raiders Max Crosby will undergo season ending ankle surgery. The
Saints will start Jake Hayner at quarterback over Derek Carr
as they get ready to take on the Commanders That Sports,
I'm Trey Bender.

Speaker 17 (55:52):
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(56:16):
to enroll today. That's nineteen thirty two Trainingcenter dot org.

Speaker 18 (56:25):
What does it take to take on Alzheimer's Awareness that
nearly two thirds of those diagnosed to women, including black women,
dedication to lowering your risk by eating healthy and monitoring
blood pressure and confidence to talk to your healthcare provider
about screening and early detection. You have what it takes
to take on Alzheimer's. Learn about signs and screening at

(56:49):
take on alz dot com, brought to you by the
California Department of Public Health.

Speaker 19 (56:55):
What is your plan for your beneficiary to manage your
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Speaker 1 (57:45):
Hey, this is Gary Garber.

Speaker 21 (57:47):
If you work out like I do, or have a
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Speaker 2 (57:54):
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Speaker 21 (57:58):
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that fit ice cold gel packs called flexpods. These flexpods
fit around your joints ensuring maximum pain relief.

Speaker 1 (58:11):
I use it all the time because.

Speaker 21 (58:12):
I'm always active, playing golf, working out, fixing up my
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Speaker 2 (58:23):
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Speaker 21 (58:24):
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That's ic bodactive dot com. This week they are having
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(58:44):
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Speaker 22 (58:46):
This segment brought to you by Christmas and the Fat
Greek in Ukaithon still have some Christmas shopping or gifts
to buy for that special person, business, associate or friend.
Nothing says love like a Fat Greek food certificate. Chris
and their families at the Fat Creek want you to
know about their holiday gift certificates and how you can
also get whole holiday meals for the family or friends

(59:08):
too quick, easy and affordable, and you get money back too.
You can see more about the Fat Greek on the
big Ukaypa led monster signs on the ten Freeway at
the gateway to Ukaipa. Fat Greek is your holiday relief station.
Kick your feet up and enjoy the holiday with all
kinds of Greek comfort fruit to take that load off
your feet, and you might want to partake in an

(59:28):
adult beverage at their full cocktail bar. You can also
catch a game on their big eighty five inch TV too.
The Fat Greek in Ukaipa on Ukuipa Boulevard across from
the golf course near Oakland Boulevard, open every day except Tuesdays.
You can pre order a holiday meal at gofat Greek
dot com. That's gofat Greek dot com and Happy Holidays
from the Fat Creek. And while you're at it, don't
forget to say opah this holiday season.

Speaker 6 (59:55):
NBC News on CACAA Lomelada sponsored by Teamsters Local nineteen
thirty two, Protecting the Future of Working Families Cheamsters nineteen
thirty two dot org