Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Inside the Criminal Mind podcast, where we analyze
some of the most notorious criminal cases with psychology and
criminology combined.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back. Everybody with me again is my friend and
colleague Andy Bringo. Welcome Andrew, Thank.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
You, Carlos.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Happy October to everyone out there. We're getting closer and
closer to Halloween.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Absolutely kind of get and creepy as it is.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
The best part, Carlos is we're getting closer and closer
to the end of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
That's the better news, right.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, I really doesn't hope at flips on January first.
I'm not sure how to flip on January first, but
I wish it did.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm hoping that even if it's not a flip per se,
you know, a light switch, I'm hoping it's a gradual
slide into the times I spring, because they say by
the spring this virus will be gone.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
That's what I've heard.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
They've said a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, but it gets warmer right here. I think it's
warmer in the spring, this virus will be gone. Anyway,
I'll go over.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
In the moon.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Personally, we want to make sure is welcome everybody. If
you're on the podcast listening to Inside the Criminal Mind
with Andrew Bringo, former FBI profiler. Folks was in the
a f fact for twenty seven years or more. I
take you to the Loaves. I don't want an age metal?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, twenty seven and a half.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right. If you're on the podcast, check out the Doctor
Carlo Show, Andy's going to be with me next week.
We're going to have to ask Doctor Carlos Show. Monday
through Friday. We're going to try this out next week
from twelve o'clock to twelve thirty Pacific time. Andy's going
to join me on one of those episodes one of
those shows as well to help field questions. So if
you have questions, save them up right now. If you're
(01:55):
on the Doctor Carlos Show watching this and you want
to catch more of these podcasts, look, folks, I can't
we talk about everything. I wish we could on YouTube
sensors a lot, so we have to keep it a
lot cleaner. If you want to hear more about it.
There's other material that we cover on our podcast, Inside
the Criminal Mind. You can catch it on Apple, Spotify,
(02:15):
all the podcast platforms, and you can hear a lot
of stuff that we talk about serial killers and whatnot,
and you can catch.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It next week and the Carlo is Stuctor Carlo's Show,
we'll be talking about what conflict resolution, resiliency and mindfulness.
So we're talking about really self help stuff or whatever
whatever the audience wants to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
That's what I'm really hoping. It's guided by we go
in with one topic on the day, but I'm really
hoping they'll have questions and ask us about it. Look,
we'll answer anything you want in regards.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
To anything about from the Dodgers winning the World Series
to the Biden laptop.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah. Look, I know what a fun topic is, folks,
is the psychology of Halloween. We can even get into
that and how society tries to narrow that gap of death.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, what are you going to address it? What are
you dressing as? This year? The costume is Carlo's Doctor
Carlo is going to be in Go tell me doctor Phil.
I don't want to hear.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That I'm guided by Well, I want to leave that.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I'm gonna wear it.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I'm wearing a dress this year. I'm going as jan
new Huber. Oh really yeah, yeah, a little makeup.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I might keep the.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Mustache Okay, there's some funny characters in the FBI, but
nobody looks the same in the FBI, so I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, you wear a dark suit and sunglasses, and.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
That goes a float in the FBI. I unless you
were undercover.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I guess.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I think I told you this once when I was
a relatively new agent, you know, back one hundred years ago,
nineteen ninety one. I knock on a door in uh In, Alabama, Moody, Alabama.
This little old lady answers the door, and I show
her my credentials. I introduced myself as an FBI agent.
I'd like to speak with her, and it was an
administrative investigation, wasn't anything really serious. So I introduced myself.
(03:54):
My name is Andrew Bringle. A'm FBI agent. She looks
at me square in the eyes. She says, you're not
an FBI agent. Yes, man, I am. Here's my credentials.
She says, you don't look like an FBI agent. I
took it as a compliment and I thanked her. But
I was much younger looking back, you know, thirty years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, let's get started on this. We're gonna get into
a real serious topic. Folks, we're gonna get into human
trafficking this week. Next week, I just remember we actually
I have a guest she was trafficked for several years,
and she's gonna be talking about that next week as well.
But this week we're gonna be looking at it from
the criminal aspect of it, the legal aspect. We're gonna
look at some of the prior cases and also look
(04:35):
at things that people don't realize when it comes to
human trafficking. A lot of times our experiences are shaped
by the media, whether it's the news, whether it's movies, TVs,
or books, and a lot of the times we visualize
human trafficking as sex trafficking or child trafficking, but in reality,
there's a lot of different versions of trafficking. There's forced labor,
there's domestic service tode. It involves both citizens and foreigners alike.
(04:59):
It has no demogram restrictions, It doesn't discriminate unfortunately, well
kind of, but we'll get into that later. The FBI
works human trafficking cases and both at Civil Rights program
and at Violent Crimes against Children program. The majority of
human trafficking victims in our cases are US citizens and
will take a victim centered approach and investigating such cases.
(05:19):
That's what the FBI does. Andy's going to be brought
up a great case. It actually a brand new case.
I think. Just a few days ago, the DOJ announced
that a former Stockton residence, Satish Khartan KRTAN, forty six,
was sentenced to one hundred and eighty eight months, which
is what mathematic leagures long time fourteen fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
You figured ten years is one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Months, Yeah, it's about fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
About fifteen, and he's forty six.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
He got highlighted for the forced labor violation. And I
even knew an individual nearby where I live who also
suffered from a situation like this, and its domestic servitude
was the one I experience. So I'll talk about that
later on the show. So, Andy, we're going to start
on right off with that case. How about you take
us to Carton and see what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, So what happened.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
After an eleven day trial, federal jury found Cartan and
his wife actually she's forty years old, guilty of conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
They tried to.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Have people from India in forced labor. They basically had
them work at their house as servants. And of course,
you know the United States is abolished slab and involuntary
servitude over one hundred and fifty years ago. And yet
these individuals were holed up in the defendants' homes and
they worked up to eighteen hours a day. When the
(06:40):
defendants or when the victims asked the defendants to release
them or they wanted to read the home, they would
often be beaten, even branded with cigarettes burnt. So you
were not talking about a victimless crime here. These were
people that came from India. These the subjects brought them
over and their whole intent was to enslave them in
(07:02):
which they did, and so they were caught. And you know,
like you said, a pretty significant sentence, and this represents
a successful operation from HSI, the Homeland Security Investigation Units,
and a division the certainly the FBI participated in this case,
(07:23):
and the United States Department of State Diplomatic Service UH
was also part of this. So you had three federal
agencies and the Stockton Police Department, which brought this case
initially to UH.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
To the federal authorities.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
UH, you wouldn't have had this case made had it
not been for someone who saw something out of the ordinary,
out of out of the normal course of the environment,
and then report it. And that's something that I think
we can tell our you know, practical things that we
can tell our listeners and viewers. When you see somebody
who is seems to be out of place, let's say
(08:01):
at a hotel, a hotel worker that is staying there
but doesn't have any luggage. Let's say a somebody who's
got a vehicle but there's no registration. If you're at
a hotel or hotel worker, you should be looking for
these kinds of indicators. A person that's not staying at
the hotel, who will pay for an extended stay at
the hotel for somebody else. A room request close to
(08:25):
stairwells or exits may or may not be one of
the indicators. Payments that are made in cash, multiple rooms
which are purchased to be adjacent to each other. A
female staying in a room but seen with multiple males,
So this may be someone who's been tracked for sex,
you know, for sex. Females repeatedly using hotel public access
(08:47):
computer because they may be going online to have a john,
for example, come to the hotel. Constant do not disturb
sign on the hotel over this extended stay of this
individual sexual paraphernalia lying in the room. Now, I will
let me stop from the solicitor second, and I'll tell
you sort of a story of my pre FBI life.
(09:08):
I once worked at a place called the Master host
In which sounds exactly like it was a roadside motel
off of Old National Highway in College Park, Georgia, off
of two eighty five, literally by the airport. And this
was a teenage kind of kid job, right. I was sixteen,
seventeen years old. I just started driving. I needed to
pay my car payments, and so this was my job
(09:31):
for you know, when I wasn't in school, and on
the weekends I'd work for to midnight.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
And then during the summers, well we.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Had a lot of let's say questionable clientele.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
You would have men's particularly on Friday.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
You would have guys come up in a car and
you know, they would get a room for one and
you could see somebody kind of sulting, you know, kind
of squatting down in the passenger seat. My brother, who
was a belltop at this hotel with off and bring
me interesting magazines, uh to the front desk, I was
a desk clerk, and other paraphernalia that he'd find in
(10:07):
these rooms, right and and we'd see an uptick and occupy,
the occupy, occupation of patients, the the rooms being occupied
in the Friday Saturday time frame. So if you see
xcess amounts of fast food and car key cards from
the other hotels in the room, that's an indicator. Excessive
foot traffic to and from the room is an indicator.
(10:30):
An exit door near the room that's been propped open
also an indicator. And here's another indicator, a male possible
trafficker seen loitering in the hallway or around the property
of the hotel. So none of these indicators by themselves
would indicate human trafficking. But if you have a number
of these types of indicators at a hotel, you may
(10:50):
have someone who's being forced into sexual labor at that hotel.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Those are great tibits, especially if you're if you take
any situation on where a classes or anything of that nature,
they always tell you to look at clusters and behavior.
So you can see several of them there that Andy highlighted.
There's that concept of Cooper's color codes. Again, folks, condition
white means are clueless, You're walking around staring at your phone.
These are what perpetrators are going to be looking for.
(11:17):
But in this case, being conditioned yellow, being aware of
your environment, you could save somebody. I know some customers
told us stories about that. When they realized those little
indicators you just mentioned, Andy the officer said, I saw
two or three of these. I decided to inquire, and boom.
We found that human trafficking is shine.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
It's also a deviation from the norm. So we look
at disruptors of that norm. It's the basic science behind
even poligraphers. They establish a baseline and then look for
those anomalies. If you're at a restaurant, for example, and
your server doesn't speak very good English or very little English,
and you may see this at some ethnic restaurants, you know, certainly.
In fact, there was a case out of Cleveland, Ohio,
(11:56):
made by the FBI where they saw a lot of
waitresses had named like Susie and Daisy, but they were
all Chinese and couldn't speak English right. And they what
they noticed this local police officer who went there launch
every day, prime particularly at this restaurant, saw a white
van and he would see people at the ship change.
Waitresses would go in this van as a group drive
(12:18):
off and another group would come in, So that that's
what initiated that investigation turned out that they were actually
part of a larger trafficking group out of New York
City and they have restaurants in and around the Midwest
and Northeast. A server of staff member who seems to
change regularly. So if you see servers that change regularly
at a particularly one of these type of restaurants, that
(12:41):
may be an indicator. Restaurant staff seeing arriving or leaving
in a large van or bus, as I mentioned, was
an indicator in the case in Ohio. A server staff
that has different English name on their name tag or
multiple like you go one day and it's Susie, the
next day it's Daisy, and because you know, they really
don't care that they're they're being interchanged if you will,
(13:02):
restaurant staff is reluctant to engage in conversation, will not
make eye contact, and has limited.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
No English skills.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Those are the indicators that you're dealing with a staff
that's being forced into labor. Right, so these could be
illegal immigrants that are being forced into labor, or they
could just be poor dyspora that's being forced into this labor.
So the FPIS established human trafficking task forces. In all
fifty six field offices, there's a human trafficking task force.
(13:31):
The FBI has fifty six field offices in the United
States and about about another couple hundred what they call
resident agencies or satellite offices. These task forces include local, state,
and federal investigators. My wife, who you and I have
talked about in the past, is an FBI agent. She
works human trafficking and child exploitation. So she's part of
(13:52):
a task force and she's actually worked a human trafficking
case actually went to trial a couple of years back,
involving two miners who forced into having sex, a commercial
sex and being trafficked from Pennsylvania into New York State.
So those are some of the things that you should
(14:12):
look for if you are out and about and you
see an anomaly, that something that's different from the baseline.
Another thing I think that's very interesting in these cases callus,
is that you just can't have somebody that's you know,
brought you know, to a different state and forced to work.
There's to prove the human Trafficking statute. There's a couple
(14:33):
things that you need to prove. You need to prove action, means,
and purpose. So with action you have to show that
the subjects induced, recruited, harbored, transported, or provide some means
of those things towards the victim. Second, you have to
show means. You have to show that it was through force, fraud,
(14:56):
or poorsion, so they were induced, recruited, harbored through for
sproad or corrision. And then purpose is the third piec
It either has to be for commercial sex or sex trafficking,
or forced labor or servitude which is labor trafficking. So
the two categories that we talked about, and the one
(15:16):
the case we talked about to kick it off was
sex or was a servitude human trafficking case where they
were forced into labor.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It makes some interesting points. I know it brought up
a couple scenarios. I remember talking to the Border patrol
where a lot of individuals, you know, the coyotes are
controlled by the cartels. At least from when I was
told from a border patrol and other cartel experts. It
used to be way back when folks about thirty years ago,
the cartel, I mean not the cartel, but the coyotes
were independent. Coyote is somebody who brings the person over
(15:49):
to the United States illegally across the border. But used
to be independent many many years ago, thirty years ago,
when the cartails weren't so big. Now nobody gets across
without the cartel knowing about it. They control these plazas,
these tears arritories, and so they have them all marked out.
But aside from that, a lot of times they can't
afford it up front. So if they owe maybe it
costs them five grand to get across, they may pay
(16:09):
a grand upfront or a two grand up front, whatever
it is they can afford. But then later they're thrown
into forced labor here in the US. And then what
they'll do is the coyotes will hold their passports, they'll
hold whatever it is kind of id and they'll threaten them.
They'll say, look, we'll report you to Ice or whatnot
if you get out of line, if you decide to
do what we're not supposed to do. You try to
(16:30):
cheat us out of our money. And now you have
servitude here because they're forced to work, whether the strawberry fields,
whatever it is that they're doing, depending on the company
that's arranged it. Sometimes the company's not't even aware of it.
Very often the head.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, that force and coercion is the critical piece, right.
The The other thing that people confuse is the difference
between humans smuggling and human trafficking, and then they can
be related.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
So you can have somebody, as you just mentioned, smuggle
the across the border, they pay their.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Coyote the money and boom, they're gone. That's it. They
paid and they're done.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
But as you mentioned, if they come over indebted as
an indentured servant, if you will, and then they are
forced and into labor, well after that that debt would
have been paid, then you have a totally different violation. Right,
it morphs into something. Same thing's true with child pornography.
You could have a child who's exploited, right and uh,
(17:28):
manipulated and forced into sex and recording that act and
then that's distributed, Or you could have a child who
is trafficked and uh and then that trafficking uh is
a form of exploitation as well, whether there's actual you know, uh,
sex or photographs taken of that child so it they
(17:48):
that's why you have the Civil Rights and the UH
and the Crimes Against Children Division or the units at
at headquarters of the FBI to help manage these investigations.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
And the task forces.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Of the average age of a teenager that enters the
sex trade in the United States, what do you think that.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Would be.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Thirteen years old?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Well, you're pretty close right in the middle.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Twelve to fourteen is the average between twelve and fourteen,
So thirteen as you hit it right on the head.
Many of these victims are runaways and so they're particularly vulnerable.
You mentioned the young people that go to California, southern
California and want to have a career in the movies
(18:30):
or TV. And often these young people find themselves on
the street, not able to find a job or make
a living, so somebody will turn to them, or they'll
turn to somebody, and they'll end up being exploited sexually.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And in the porno industry, it's bad.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I remember one case reminds me of domestic servitude
that happened where an individual came be Cameraber. What country
it was from, India or somewhere. No actually had a Saudi.
I can't remember anyway, it's not important. It came another country.
They came here. But the people who you who had
her working as a I guess she was a housekeeper
and she was working with them, supposed to supposed to
(19:10):
work with them for eight hours a day for money.
Took her passport whatever it was that she had here
I think it was a green card at the time,
took it from her, took her money, cash, whatever, and
they provided food. She couldn't go out with it without
them around. And she was forced to work twelve to
fifteen hour days with no work, no time off whatsoever.
(19:31):
And she was doing this for several years till finally
she got out and somebody noticed something and we're talking
to her. When she got awareness, right, it was the
big key education in the worner. She realized what was
going on was wrong. She contacted law enforcement. They arrested
that couple. Actually, I think they sent them back. I
don't think they were yes listens either.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
So you know, it was fairly common at the turn
of the last century, the turn of the twentieth century.
My my immigrant family came from Portugal in eighteen eighties
and they came over the United States the Continental United
States as indentured servants through the Port of Boston, and
then the company that had hired my great great grandfather
(20:16):
paid for his travel across the United States to another
steamship sending them to Hawaii, which wasn't even a state
back then, and they ended up on the island of Maui,
and he was an indentured servant. He had to pay
off that debt from Portugal to Maui by working the plantation,
the pineapple plantation fields, you know, harvesting pine apples. So
(20:41):
then you know that generation led to you know, three generations,
four generations later, and you know, my kids being born
in all college educated and having professional jobs.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So there's a history of that that for the migrants in.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Our country, whether you're Irish, Portuguese, you know, or what
have you. There is another case that it's not similar,
but in good contrasts of the case we discussed, which
was aut of Milwaukee a couple of years ago. I
was given thirty years, which shows you the type of
sentences that these bad guys get. I worked a lot
of public corruption in white collar and guys would get
(21:17):
basically a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
That was it. That was a good of the whole
different show.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
But in December twenty seventeen, in the Eastern District of Wisconsin,
this guy, this guy Williams, was guilty of eighteen counts
related to sex trafficking and interstate transportation of a victim
for the purposes of prostitution, conspiracy to distribute heroin, obstruction
(21:44):
of justice, witness intimidation, witness tampering, contempt of court, and
sending an extraordinate threat. So the trial established that this
this Williams, Jamboree Williams was his name, age thirty one.
He enticed and recruited victims into a sex trafficking ring,
(22:04):
forcing them through fraud and coercion. Multiple victims testified against him.
This is very similar to the trial that my wife
had a couple of years ago, and this guy's his
victims were traveled or forced to travel across Wisconsin in Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Washington,
d C. And you see this more and more in
(22:25):
the sex trafficking trade today because these prostitutes, for lack
of a better term, will use the Internet and travel
to cities and announce when they're in a city and
they're forced to travel, so this guy Williams would pay
for their travel and then force them to have sex.
In this particular case, the FBI's Human Trafficking Task Force
(22:50):
and the Racine Police Department, which again important to point out,
a lot of these cases are made with local, state,
and federal cooperation. A lot of the cases that my
wife currently works are made through local and state cooperation
with the federal Task Force. So it really does start
at the local level, and then a lot of the
(23:13):
stiff penalties are at the federal level, so they they'll
remand them over to the federal court and work these cases,
and these individuals get you know, thirty forty or in
this case, fifteen years for.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
These types of cases.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
The other thing I wanted to point out, Carlos, is
that there's a distinction two between kidnappings and child trafficking.
I just got I was telling you when we came on.
Right before we came on the air, I got an
Amber alert. And right here in central New York there's
a two month old that was taken by too fifteen
year olds, a mail in fifteen fifteen year old, and
(23:50):
so the county sheriff has put out an Amber alert
stating that the child's been kidnapped, and because it's a child,
the FBI has a non family child Abduction Team. The
FBI has jurisdiction on children kidnappings as late as nineteen
thirty two. The Limburg I'm sure you're familiar with the
aviator Limberg Limberg Law gives the FBI media investigative authority
(24:16):
on children under the age of twelve that are missing.
And so the FBI created a team called the CARD Team,
and these child abduction Response groups they go out out
of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and
the local FBI field office and they work to try
(24:39):
to recover these children. So I'm sure that the FBI
out of Albany is assisting the county sheriff in any
way possible to recover this two month.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Old child as quickly as possible.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
But oftentimes people they'll confuse the two you know, child kidnapping,
child exploitation, or trafficking, and they're two different, two different crimes.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Absolutely, And just as I get ready, as we get
ready to wrap up, I'm just going to talk a
little bit about the psychology and then if you want,
we can come back to you if you want to
talk about the routine activities theory and a little bit
about that.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yeah, and I also wanted to talk a little bit
about some tips on how to prevent from being a victim.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, I think I'm going to highlight. Of course, obviously
there's trauma for these individuals. A lot of them suffer depression, anxiety.
These are some of the things that can develop PTSD
depending on what the how traumatic the event was. If
they hold their family hostage, their family is also going
to be suffering from this severe depression our anxiety. There's
(25:41):
also a lack of control in their own life, a
feeling of worthlessness, or a feeling of helplessness. In the
world of cognitive behavioral therapy, one of the core issues
could be a feeling of helplessness, which then can lead
to depression, can lead to anxiety. It can last a
long time for these individuals. It doesn't go away just
because theyres it's a great moment, but it still takes
(26:04):
time to process a lot of this stuff, depending on
how long they were held in trafficked, what they experienced.
If there is sexually traffic, that's going to be cause
a lot of other mental health issues as well. So
those guide us in here and give us some tips.
What's going on.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Well, a couple of things, you know, domestic sex trafficking
of adults. About thirty two percent of those cases are
made up of domestic sex trafficking of adults, and forced
labor makes up sixty eight percent of the cases. And
if you look at all the cases in total, about
seventy five percent of the victims are either women or children.
(26:41):
Most of those are poor people, right marginalized society. We
talked about the thespora. Eighty percent of these kids that
were were trafficed were involved with foster care or social services.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Eighty percent.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Poor people are more vulnerable than most. There's an estimated
one in people worldwide they are in forced labor or slavery.
At human slavery, the average cost of a human traffic
today is ninety dollars compared to the cost of a
slave in eighteen hundreds at forty thousand dollars. So if
you look at today's dollar value back in the eighteen hundreds,
(27:17):
a slave cost about today's dollars forty thousand dollars, whereas today,
particularly in the in the Southeast Asian parts of the world,
a person can be bought or sold for as little
as ninety bucks. Fifty seven thousand people are in forced
labor in the United States. We don't think about that,
but a lot of people, particularly illegal immigrants, are in
(27:39):
forced labor. Some traffickers earn as much as thirty two
thousand dollars a week. You were talking about, you know,
smuggling people over thirty two thousand dollars a week. There
are over five thousand cases in the United States in
twenty fifteen dealing with human trafficking. In New York, Miami,
Atlanta are gateway cities because of the airports or the ports.
Thailand and Reilt have the highest rates of sexual child
(28:02):
that's sexual exploitation. There is a thriving sex industry for
children in Thailand. Russia, China, Iran, Belus and Turkumitstan are
other countries that have a real problem with child exploitation.
So how do you prevent yourself from being a victim?
(28:22):
Seven top tips for not being victimized for human trafficking.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
First of all, the one that makes this.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
You know, the duh moment is used common sense think
before you act eb a right. So routine activities theory
states that there is an ecological convergence of.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Factors that lead to crime.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
You need to have an offender, so you have to
have somebody who's a bad guy, maybe at a bus station, right,
And then you have to have a suitable target, so
this is a runaway who wants to go to Hollywood
to be an actress. And then you have to have
the absence of a capable guardian, so there's no body
to watch this minor coming off of us, and they're
(29:01):
looking at big bad La and thinking they're going to
be the next star in a sitcom or something. And
if that offender has that opportunity, he's going to groom them,
manipulate them, and force them into forced sex or labor.
So how do you reverse that, you know, trying to
find a capable guardian?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Being aware.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
As we mentioned earlier, some of the environmental aspects, things
that seem out of line. Report what you see, right,
see something, say something. If you're part of the at
risk you know population, a woman or a child, pay
special attention to the potential threats around you. Somebody who's
offering you a deal, you know it's too good to
be true. Somebody's offering you a ride someplace, somebody's offering
(29:42):
you a replace to stay, those could all be gateways
for that person to manipulate or exploit you. If doing
business on Craigslist or other social media sites, do your homework.
You want to meet people in public before you meet
them in private. You want to gain some trust and
understand where they're coming from first. If traveling overseas, register
with the United States Embassy, least let the United States
(30:04):
Embassy know that you're in Belieze.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And going in the jungles right.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Never give anyone your passport, eat strangers, as I mentioned,
in public places. If taking Uber other transportation, GPS the
directions beforehand so you know the shortest way to get
to your destination.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Kay. A lot of people don't do that, and it's
probably a safe preventive measure to do.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
So.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
If you know you're going a different route, then you
should be going. You can immediately ask the driver what's
going on. Remember it's okay to politely turn down a
ride or an offer of help. So if you feel
the hairs in the back of your neck start to rise,
those are fear indicators. There's a book, Gavin de Becker's
book Gift of Fear and oftentimes we suppress what I
(30:52):
refer to as disruptors. Conflict doesn't just happen. It comes
from disruptors that are suppressed or ignored, right, And so
if if you don't define what those disruptors are, then
you can't do a proper threat analysis, and so you
may end up in some conflict, and conflict that's not
resolved becomes a crisis.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So it doesn't just happen.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
There's a sequence of events that you can identify, measure,
and take appropriate action. So, again, as I mentioned spotting
victims of human trafficking, there are signs both physical and emotional.
Children victims often have the following emotional You talked about
some psychological aspects, but there's also some emotional They often
suffer from low self esteem and self work. Children who've
(31:32):
been trafficked often suffer from low cognitive function because they're
not going to school. There's a general distrust of adults,
of all adults, because they've been abused by adults.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
They can suffer from disassociated disorders known mainly as multiple
identity disorders. A lot of children that have been exploited
sexually are over sexualized, so they may hold people inappropriately
or try to gain affection by doing acts that are inappropriate,
and they also commit a lot of self harm, whether
(32:04):
it's cutting or other forms of self harm. These same
victims can suffer from the Stockholm effect with their their
the people that are manipulating them. They often have fear,
anxiety disorders, depression, guilt, self blame, anger, and once they
are removed from that toxic environment, they often suffer from ETSD.
(32:27):
So they a lot of these young people that are
exploited do need a lot of care, sometimes lifetime care
because of their experiences.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They made some great tips and if I'm just gonna
ad a couple of things where we wrap up one
of the things again, you can catch the situational awareness
tactic podcasts as well when I do some of these tips,
but those of foreign countries. If you're going to a
foreign country, be aware of some of the things you
may encounter, some of the dangers. Taxi cabs. A lot
of times some countries, taxi cabs can actually be working
(32:59):
for the car tells. For instance, a lot of times
the cab drivers, if they know a particular target, they
may take that person for whether it's kidnapping or human trafficking, look,
the movie has got some things that are a little
far fetched because it's Hollywood, but some things aren't too
far from the truth, which was taken by Liam Neeson
when he had the two young girls and they went
over camera overs Italy or whatnot when they had the country.
(33:19):
But again they didn't follow Andy's advice. They got into
a stranger's car that was going to join them in
a taxicab. The taxicab was in on it with the individual.
But I remember correctly, I might be off. I'm sure
I hear about it from the comments.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
It was great. Great movie.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, great movie. I think you've done that a couple
of times already in your life, kind of saved people
and went around beating up the bad guys.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Oh yeah, a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I could have sworn, he told me folks one time,
I have a special special set of skills, but I
can't remember when I do.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But either way, I have worked a couple of kidnapping cases,
so they're very high. There's high stress involved because you're
dealing with the clock, you're dealing with time. And in
the one case that I worked, one kidnapping when was
a child kidnapping from a hospital in Birmingham, Alabama, actually
did recover that child with the help of the community.
(34:14):
Another case was the Carrie Laws and kidnapping. I don't
know if we talked about that case or not, but
she was a daughter of She was an heiress of
a father who developed the stonewashed process for blue jeans.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Very wealthy family. It was a traditional kidnapping. Uh.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
She was She was murdered and that was twenty nine
years ago this past September. Her body has never been recovered.
That that kidnapping took a took place over course of
three days. There was money drops. I mean, it was
really what you would see in a movie. The only
bad part of it was not the happy ending. We
ended up catching the bad guy gun named Jerry Bland.
(34:52):
You can look it up on the at old Google
like Jerry Bland ended up committing suicide as as law
enforcement closed in on.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
And a couple other things. Look out for hotels. There
was a case down in Mexico City a few months
back where the manager and the room keeper actually were
in on it together when they saw particular individuals that
fitted the criteria that they were told would fit for
a perfect kidnapping or a human trafficking situation, they would
immediately once the people moved into the room, they would
(35:22):
inform the individuals who would come later and then take
them hostage in their own room the hotel. So again,
when you're traveling different countries, learn South Africa, there were
parts where they were putting roadblocks and stopping people that
are addressed like police officers, and they know tourists don't
know what they look like. They'll be able to take
advantage of you in that situation as well. Not to
scare you, but look understand where you're going. Andy, very
(35:44):
interesting topic, very sad topic, but I'm glad we covered it.
We covered a lot of territory today.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Well, I think what's important is to know that there
are resources out there, and there are agencies out there
working these crimes and trying to keep the community safer.
I tip my hat to all of those local, state,
and federal agencies and the community that helps them identify
where the bad guys are and bring some of these
(36:10):
young people home safe in town.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
You follow me on Twitter, folks, you know I've said
those countless times. The federal government, especially law enforcement especially,
they're always working. They're always working. We just don't see
them on the news. They don't get the coverage. We
get these sensational life stories of what else is going on.
But if you follow them a Department of Justice, if
you follow the FBI on Twitter, if you follow the CIA,
you're gonna see cases every day, convictions boom boom, boom
(36:33):
boom of things that are happening, and you'll be like,
what the world is going on? And same thing with CBP.
If you follow them, you're going to see all sorts
of things that are happening in regards to drug trafficking
and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
So you know, my son's on the border in Laredo, Texas,
and you know he's he's keeping a safe on that border.
I have a daughter that works in a state I
can't mention does a lot of work for the FBI,
and then my wife. If you're a pedophile anywhere around here,
you got some problems.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
This is really good.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well again, Andy, thanks again, folks. Check out be Hero
Science Unit LLC dot com. You don't want to mess
it out. It's for Andy. As you can see a
wrap behind him of the Hero Science Unit LLC dot com.
I'll put that in the description if you want the
link if you're gonna check it out. Andy, thanks again
for a great show.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Thank you Carlos. I think I'm gonna go get a haircut.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
All right, let's do it a hi.
Welcome to Inside the Criminal Mind podcast, where we analyze
some of the most notorious criminal cases with psychology and
criminology combined.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome back. Everybody with me again is my friend and
colleague Andy Bringo. Welcome Andrew, Thank.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
You, Carlos.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Happy October to everyone out there. We're getting closer and
closer to Halloween.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Absolutely kind of get and creepy as it is.
Speaker 4 (00:38):
The best part, Carlos is we're getting closer and closer
to the end of twenty twenty.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
That's the better news, right.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, I really doesn't hope at flips on January first.
I'm not sure how to flip on January first, but
I wish it did.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm hoping that even if it's not a flip per se,
you know, a light switch, I'm hoping it's a gradual
slide into the times I spring, because they say by
the spring this virus will be gone.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
That's what I've heard.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
They've said a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yeah, but it gets warmer right here. I think it's
warmer in the spring, this virus will be gone. Anyway,
I'll go over.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
In the moon.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Personally, we want to make sure is welcome everybody. If
you're on the podcast listening to Inside the Criminal Mind
with Andrew Bringo, former FBI profiler. Folks was in the
a f fact for twenty seven years or more. I
take you to the Loaves. I don't want an age metal?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, twenty seven and a half.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Right. If you're on the podcast, check out the Doctor
Carlo Show, Andy's going to be with me next week.
We're going to have to ask Doctor Carlos Show. Monday
through Friday. We're going to try this out next week
from twelve o'clock to twelve thirty Pacific time. Andy's going
to join me on one of those episodes one of
those shows as well to help field questions. So if
you have questions, save them up right now. If you're
(01:55):
on the Doctor Carlos Show watching this and you want
to catch more of these podcasts, look, folks, I can't
we talk about everything. I wish we could on YouTube
sensors a lot, so we have to keep it a
lot cleaner. If you want to hear more about it.
There's other material that we cover on our podcast, Inside
the Criminal Mind. You can catch it on Apple, Spotify,
(02:15):
all the podcast platforms, and you can hear a lot
of stuff that we talk about serial killers and whatnot,
and you can catch.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
It next week and the Carlo is Stuctor Carlo's Show,
we'll be talking about what conflict resolution, resiliency and mindfulness.
So we're talking about really self help stuff or whatever
whatever the audience wants to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
That's what I'm really hoping. It's guided by we go
in with one topic on the day, but I'm really
hoping they'll have questions and ask us about it. Look,
we'll answer anything you want in regards.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
To anything about from the Dodgers winning the World Series
to the Biden laptop.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah. Look, I know what a fun topic is, folks,
is the psychology of Halloween. We can even get into
that and how society tries to narrow that gap of death.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yeah, what are you going to address it? What are
you dressing as? This year? The costume is Carlo's Doctor
Carlo is going to be in Go tell me doctor Phil.
I don't want to hear.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
That I'm guided by Well, I want to leave that.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I'm gonna wear it.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I'm wearing a dress this year. I'm going as jan
new Huber. Oh really yeah, yeah, a little makeup.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
I might keep the.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Mustache Okay, there's some funny characters in the FBI, but
nobody looks the same in the FBI, so I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, you wear a dark suit and sunglasses, and.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
That goes a float in the FBI. I unless you
were undercover.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
I guess.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
I think I told you this once when I was
a relatively new agent, you know, back one hundred years ago,
nineteen ninety one. I knock on a door in uh In, Alabama, Moody, Alabama.
This little old lady answers the door, and I show
her my credentials. I introduced myself as an FBI agent.
I'd like to speak with her, and it was an
administrative investigation, wasn't anything really serious. So I introduced myself.
(03:54):
My name is Andrew Bringle. A'm FBI agent. She looks
at me square in the eyes. She says, you're not
an FBI agent. Yes, man, I am. Here's my credentials.
She says, you don't look like an FBI agent. I
took it as a compliment and I thanked her. But
I was much younger looking back, you know, thirty years ago.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Well, let's get started on this. We're gonna get into
a real serious topic. Folks, we're gonna get into human
trafficking this week. Next week, I just remember we actually
I have a guest she was trafficked for several years,
and she's gonna be talking about that next week as well.
But this week we're gonna be looking at it from
the criminal aspect of it, the legal aspect. We're gonna
look at some of the prior cases and also look
(04:35):
at things that people don't realize when it comes to
human trafficking. A lot of times our experiences are shaped
by the media, whether it's the news, whether it's movies, TVs,
or books, and a lot of the times we visualize
human trafficking as sex trafficking or child trafficking, but in reality,
there's a lot of different versions of trafficking. There's forced labor,
there's domestic service tode. It involves both citizens and foreigners alike.
(04:59):
It has no demogram restrictions, It doesn't discriminate unfortunately, well
kind of, but we'll get into that later. The FBI
works human trafficking cases and both at Civil Rights program
and at Violent Crimes against Children program. The majority of
human trafficking victims in our cases are US citizens and
will take a victim centered approach and investigating such cases.
(05:19):
That's what the FBI does. Andy's going to be brought
up a great case. It actually a brand new case.
I think. Just a few days ago, the DOJ announced
that a former Stockton residence, Satish Khartan KRTAN, forty six,
was sentenced to one hundred and eighty eight months, which
is what mathematic leagures long time fourteen fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
You figured ten years is one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Months, Yeah, it's about fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
About fifteen, and he's forty six.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
He got highlighted for the forced labor violation. And I
even knew an individual nearby where I live who also
suffered from a situation like this, and its domestic servitude
was the one I experience. So I'll talk about that
later on the show. So, Andy, we're going to start
on right off with that case. How about you take
us to Carton and see what's going on here?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, So what happened.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
After an eleven day trial, federal jury found Cartan and
his wife actually she's forty years old, guilty of conspiracy.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
They tried to.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Have people from India in forced labor. They basically had
them work at their house as servants. And of course,
you know the United States is abolished slab and involuntary
servitude over one hundred and fifty years ago. And yet
these individuals were holed up in the defendants' homes and
they worked up to eighteen hours a day. When the
(06:40):
defendants or when the victims asked the defendants to release
them or they wanted to read the home, they would
often be beaten, even branded with cigarettes burnt. So you
were not talking about a victimless crime here. These were
people that came from India. These the subjects brought them
over and their whole intent was to enslave them in
(07:02):
which they did, and so they were caught. And you know,
like you said, a pretty significant sentence, and this represents
a successful operation from HSI, the Homeland Security Investigation Units,
and a division the certainly the FBI participated in this case,
(07:23):
and the United States Department of State Diplomatic Service UH
was also part of this. So you had three federal
agencies and the Stockton Police Department, which brought this case
initially to UH.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
To the federal authorities.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
UH, you wouldn't have had this case made had it
not been for someone who saw something out of the ordinary,
out of out of the normal course of the environment,
and then report it. And that's something that I think
we can tell our you know, practical things that we
can tell our listeners and viewers. When you see somebody
who is seems to be out of place, let's say
(08:01):
at a hotel, a hotel worker that is staying there
but doesn't have any luggage. Let's say a somebody who's
got a vehicle but there's no registration. If you're at
a hotel or hotel worker, you should be looking for
these kinds of indicators. A person that's not staying at
the hotel, who will pay for an extended stay at
the hotel for somebody else. A room request close to
(08:25):
stairwells or exits may or may not be one of
the indicators. Payments that are made in cash, multiple rooms
which are purchased to be adjacent to each other. A
female staying in a room but seen with multiple males,
So this may be someone who's been tracked for sex,
you know, for sex. Females repeatedly using hotel public access
(08:47):
computer because they may be going online to have a john,
for example, come to the hotel. Constant do not disturb
sign on the hotel over this extended stay of this
individual sexual paraphernalia lying in the room. Now, I will
let me stop from the solicitor second, and I'll tell
you sort of a story of my pre FBI life.
(09:08):
I once worked at a place called the Master host
In which sounds exactly like it was a roadside motel
off of Old National Highway in College Park, Georgia, off
of two eighty five, literally by the airport. And this
was a teenage kind of kid job, right. I was sixteen,
seventeen years old. I just started driving. I needed to
pay my car payments, and so this was my job
(09:31):
for you know, when I wasn't in school, and on
the weekends I'd work for to midnight.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
And then during the summers, well we.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Had a lot of let's say questionable clientele.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
You would have men's particularly on Friday.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
You would have guys come up in a car and
you know, they would get a room for one and
you could see somebody kind of sulting, you know, kind
of squatting down in the passenger seat. My brother, who
was a belltop at this hotel with off and bring
me interesting magazines, uh to the front desk, I was
a desk clerk, and other paraphernalia that he'd find in
(10:07):
these rooms, right and and we'd see an uptick and occupy,
the occupy, occupation of patients, the the rooms being occupied
in the Friday Saturday time frame. So if you see
xcess amounts of fast food and car key cards from
the other hotels in the room, that's an indicator. Excessive
foot traffic to and from the room is an indicator.
(10:30):
An exit door near the room that's been propped open
also an indicator. And here's another indicator, a male possible
trafficker seen loitering in the hallway or around the property
of the hotel. So none of these indicators by themselves
would indicate human trafficking. But if you have a number
of these types of indicators at a hotel, you may
(10:50):
have someone who's being forced into sexual labor at that hotel.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Those are great tibits, especially if you're if you take
any situation on where a classes or anything of that nature,
they always tell you to look at clusters and behavior.
So you can see several of them there that Andy highlighted.
There's that concept of Cooper's color codes. Again, folks, condition
white means are clueless, You're walking around staring at your phone.
These are what perpetrators are going to be looking for.
(11:17):
But in this case, being conditioned yellow, being aware of
your environment, you could save somebody. I know some customers
told us stories about that. When they realized those little
indicators you just mentioned, Andy the officer said, I saw
two or three of these. I decided to inquire, and boom.
We found that human trafficking is shine.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
It's also a deviation from the norm. So we look
at disruptors of that norm. It's the basic science behind
even poligraphers. They establish a baseline and then look for
those anomalies. If you're at a restaurant, for example, and
your server doesn't speak very good English or very little English,
and you may see this at some ethnic restaurants, you know, certainly.
In fact, there was a case out of Cleveland, Ohio,
(11:56):
made by the FBI where they saw a lot of
waitresses had named like Susie and Daisy, but they were
all Chinese and couldn't speak English right. And they what
they noticed this local police officer who went there launch
every day, prime particularly at this restaurant, saw a white
van and he would see people at the ship change.
Waitresses would go in this van as a group drive
(12:18):
off and another group would come in, So that that's
what initiated that investigation turned out that they were actually
part of a larger trafficking group out of New York
City and they have restaurants in and around the Midwest
and Northeast. A server of staff member who seems to
change regularly. So if you see servers that change regularly
at a particularly one of these type of restaurants, that
(12:41):
may be an indicator. Restaurant staff seeing arriving or leaving
in a large van or bus, as I mentioned, was
an indicator in the case in Ohio. A server staff
that has different English name on their name tag or
multiple like you go one day and it's Susie, the
next day it's Daisy, and because you know, they really
don't care that they're they're being interchanged if you will,
(13:02):
restaurant staff is reluctant to engage in conversation, will not
make eye contact, and has limited.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
No English skills.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Those are the indicators that you're dealing with a staff
that's being forced into labor. Right, so these could be
illegal immigrants that are being forced into labor, or they
could just be poor dyspora that's being forced into this labor.
So the FPIS established human trafficking task forces. In all
fifty six field offices, there's a human trafficking task force.
(13:31):
The FBI has fifty six field offices in the United
States and about about another couple hundred what they call
resident agencies or satellite offices. These task forces include local, state,
and federal investigators. My wife, who you and I have
talked about in the past, is an FBI agent. She
works human trafficking and child exploitation. So she's part of
(13:52):
a task force and she's actually worked a human trafficking
case actually went to trial a couple of years back,
involving two miners who forced into having sex, a commercial
sex and being trafficked from Pennsylvania into New York State.
So those are some of the things that you should
(14:12):
look for if you are out and about and you
see an anomaly, that something that's different from the baseline.
Another thing I think that's very interesting in these cases callus,
is that you just can't have somebody that's you know,
brought you know, to a different state and forced to work.
There's to prove the human Trafficking statute. There's a couple
(14:33):
things that you need to prove. You need to prove action, means,
and purpose. So with action you have to show that
the subjects induced, recruited, harbored, transported, or provide some means
of those things towards the victim. Second, you have to
show means. You have to show that it was through force, fraud,
(14:56):
or poorsion, so they were induced, recruited, harbored through for
sproad or corrision. And then purpose is the third piec
It either has to be for commercial sex or sex trafficking,
or forced labor or servitude which is labor trafficking. So
the two categories that we talked about, and the one
(15:16):
the case we talked about to kick it off was
sex or was a servitude human trafficking case where they
were forced into labor.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It makes some interesting points. I know it brought up
a couple scenarios. I remember talking to the Border patrol
where a lot of individuals, you know, the coyotes are
controlled by the cartels. At least from when I was
told from a border patrol and other cartel experts. It
used to be way back when folks about thirty years ago,
the cartel, I mean not the cartel, but the coyotes
were independent. Coyote is somebody who brings the person over
(15:49):
to the United States illegally across the border. But used
to be independent many many years ago, thirty years ago,
when the cartails weren't so big. Now nobody gets across
without the cartel knowing about it. They control these plazas,
these tears arritories, and so they have them all marked out.
But aside from that, a lot of times they can't
afford it up front. So if they owe maybe it
costs them five grand to get across, they may pay
(16:09):
a grand upfront or a two grand up front, whatever
it is they can afford. But then later they're thrown
into forced labor here in the US. And then what
they'll do is the coyotes will hold their passports, they'll
hold whatever it is kind of id and they'll threaten them.
They'll say, look, we'll report you to Ice or whatnot
if you get out of line, if you decide to
do what we're not supposed to do. You try to
(16:30):
cheat us out of our money. And now you have
servitude here because they're forced to work, whether the strawberry fields,
whatever it is that they're doing, depending on the company
that's arranged it. Sometimes the company's not't even aware of it.
Very often the head.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
Yeah, that force and coercion is the critical piece, right.
The The other thing that people confuse is the difference
between humans smuggling and human trafficking, and then they can
be related.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Right.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
So you can have somebody, as you just mentioned, smuggle
the across the border, they pay their.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Coyote the money and boom, they're gone. That's it. They
paid and they're done.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
But as you mentioned, if they come over indebted as
an indentured servant, if you will, and then they are
forced and into labor, well after that that debt would
have been paid, then you have a totally different violation. Right,
it morphs into something. Same thing's true with child pornography.
You could have a child who's exploited, right and uh,
(17:28):
manipulated and forced into sex and recording that act and
then that's distributed, Or you could have a child who
is trafficked and uh and then that trafficking uh is
a form of exploitation as well, whether there's actual you know, uh,
sex or photographs taken of that child so it they
(17:48):
that's why you have the Civil Rights and the UH
and the Crimes Against Children Division or the units at
at headquarters of the FBI to help manage these investigations.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
And the task forces.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Of the average age of a teenager that enters the
sex trade in the United States, what do you think that.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Would be.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Thirteen years old?
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Well, you're pretty close right in the middle.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Twelve to fourteen is the average between twelve and fourteen,
So thirteen as you hit it right on the head.
Many of these victims are runaways and so they're particularly vulnerable.
You mentioned the young people that go to California, southern
California and want to have a career in the movies
(18:30):
or TV. And often these young people find themselves on
the street, not able to find a job or make
a living, so somebody will turn to them, or they'll
turn to somebody, and they'll end up being exploited sexually.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
And in the porno industry, it's bad.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And I remember one case reminds me of domestic servitude
that happened where an individual came be Cameraber. What country
it was from, India or somewhere. No actually had a Saudi.
I can't remember anyway, it's not important. It came another country.
They came here. But the people who you who had
her working as a I guess she was a housekeeper
and she was working with them, supposed to supposed to
(19:10):
work with them for eight hours a day for money.
Took her passport whatever it was that she had here
I think it was a green card at the time,
took it from her, took her money, cash, whatever, and
they provided food. She couldn't go out with it without
them around. And she was forced to work twelve to
fifteen hour days with no work, no time off whatsoever.
(19:31):
And she was doing this for several years till finally
she got out and somebody noticed something and we're talking
to her. When she got awareness, right, it was the
big key education in the worner. She realized what was
going on was wrong. She contacted law enforcement. They arrested
that couple. Actually, I think they sent them back. I
don't think they were yes listens either.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
So you know, it was fairly common at the turn
of the last century, the turn of the twentieth century.
My my immigrant family came from Portugal in eighteen eighties
and they came over the United States the Continental United
States as indentured servants through the Port of Boston, and
then the company that had hired my great great grandfather
(20:16):
paid for his travel across the United States to another
steamship sending them to Hawaii, which wasn't even a state
back then, and they ended up on the island of Maui,
and he was an indentured servant. He had to pay
off that debt from Portugal to Maui by working the plantation,
the pineapple plantation fields, you know, harvesting pine apples. So
(20:41):
then you know that generation led to you know, three generations,
four generations later, and you know, my kids being born
in all college educated and having professional jobs.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
So there's a history of that that for the migrants in.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
Our country, whether you're Irish, Portuguese, you know, or what
have you. There is another case that it's not similar,
but in good contrasts of the case we discussed, which
was aut of Milwaukee a couple of years ago. I
was given thirty years, which shows you the type of
sentences that these bad guys get. I worked a lot
of public corruption in white collar and guys would get
(21:17):
basically a couple of years.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
That was it. That was a good of the whole
different show.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
But in December twenty seventeen, in the Eastern District of Wisconsin,
this guy, this guy Williams, was guilty of eighteen counts
related to sex trafficking and interstate transportation of a victim
for the purposes of prostitution, conspiracy to distribute heroin, obstruction
(21:44):
of justice, witness intimidation, witness tampering, contempt of court, and
sending an extraordinate threat. So the trial established that this
this Williams, Jamboree Williams was his name, age thirty one.
He enticed and recruited victims into a sex trafficking ring,
(22:04):
forcing them through fraud and coercion. Multiple victims testified against him.
This is very similar to the trial that my wife
had a couple of years ago, and this guy's his
victims were traveled or forced to travel across Wisconsin in Illinois, Minnesota, Indiana, Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Washington,
d C. And you see this more and more in
(22:25):
the sex trafficking trade today because these prostitutes, for lack
of a better term, will use the Internet and travel
to cities and announce when they're in a city and
they're forced to travel, so this guy Williams would pay
for their travel and then force them to have sex.
In this particular case, the FBI's Human Trafficking Task Force
(22:50):
and the Racine Police Department, which again important to point out,
a lot of these cases are made with local, state,
and federal cooperation. A lot of the cases that my
wife currently works are made through local and state cooperation
with the federal Task Force. So it really does start
at the local level, and then a lot of the
(23:13):
stiff penalties are at the federal level, so they they'll
remand them over to the federal court and work these cases,
and these individuals get you know, thirty forty or in
this case, fifteen years for.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
These types of cases.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
The other thing I wanted to point out, Carlos, is
that there's a distinction two between kidnappings and child trafficking.
I just got I was telling you when we came on.
Right before we came on the air, I got an
Amber alert. And right here in central New York there's
a two month old that was taken by too fifteen
year olds, a mail in fifteen fifteen year old, and
(23:50):
so the county sheriff has put out an Amber alert
stating that the child's been kidnapped, and because it's a child,
the FBI has a non family child Abduction Team. The
FBI has jurisdiction on children kidnappings as late as nineteen
thirty two. The Limburg I'm sure you're familiar with the
aviator Limberg Limberg Law gives the FBI media investigative authority
(24:16):
on children under the age of twelve that are missing.
And so the FBI created a team called the CARD Team,
and these child abduction Response groups they go out out
of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and
the local FBI field office and they work to try
(24:39):
to recover these children. So I'm sure that the FBI
out of Albany is assisting the county sheriff in any
way possible to recover this two month.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
Old child as quickly as possible.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
But oftentimes people they'll confuse the two you know, child kidnapping,
child exploitation, or trafficking, and they're two different, two different crimes.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Absolutely, And just as I get ready, as we get
ready to wrap up, I'm just going to talk a
little bit about the psychology and then if you want,
we can come back to you if you want to
talk about the routine activities theory and a little bit
about that.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yeah, and I also wanted to talk a little bit
about some tips on how to prevent from being a victim.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, I think I'm going to highlight. Of course, obviously
there's trauma for these individuals. A lot of them suffer depression, anxiety.
These are some of the things that can develop PTSD
depending on what the how traumatic the event was. If
they hold their family hostage, their family is also going
to be suffering from this severe depression our anxiety. There's
(25:41):
also a lack of control in their own life, a
feeling of worthlessness, or a feeling of helplessness. In the
world of cognitive behavioral therapy, one of the core issues
could be a feeling of helplessness, which then can lead
to depression, can lead to anxiety. It can last a
long time for these individuals. It doesn't go away just
because theyres it's a great moment, but it still takes
(26:04):
time to process a lot of this stuff, depending on
how long they were held in trafficked, what they experienced.
If there is sexually traffic, that's going to be cause
a lot of other mental health issues as well. So
those guide us in here and give us some tips.
What's going on.
Speaker 4 (26:20):
Well, a couple of things, you know, domestic sex trafficking
of adults. About thirty two percent of those cases are
made up of domestic sex trafficking of adults, and forced
labor makes up sixty eight percent of the cases. And
if you look at all the cases in total, about
seventy five percent of the victims are either women or children.
(26:41):
Most of those are poor people, right marginalized society. We
talked about the thespora. Eighty percent of these kids that
were were trafficed were involved with foster care or social services.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Eighty percent.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
Poor people are more vulnerable than most. There's an estimated
one in people worldwide they are in forced labor or slavery.
At human slavery, the average cost of a human traffic
today is ninety dollars compared to the cost of a
slave in eighteen hundreds at forty thousand dollars. So if
you look at today's dollar value back in the eighteen hundreds,
(27:17):
a slave cost about today's dollars forty thousand dollars, whereas today,
particularly in the in the Southeast Asian parts of the world,
a person can be bought or sold for as little
as ninety bucks. Fifty seven thousand people are in forced
labor in the United States. We don't think about that,
but a lot of people, particularly illegal immigrants, are in
(27:39):
forced labor. Some traffickers earn as much as thirty two
thousand dollars a week. You were talking about, you know,
smuggling people over thirty two thousand dollars a week. There
are over five thousand cases in the United States in
twenty fifteen dealing with human trafficking. In New York, Miami,
Atlanta are gateway cities because of the airports or the ports.
Thailand and Reilt have the highest rates of sexual child
(28:02):
that's sexual exploitation. There is a thriving sex industry for
children in Thailand. Russia, China, Iran, Belus and Turkumitstan are
other countries that have a real problem with child exploitation.
So how do you prevent yourself from being a victim?
(28:22):
Seven top tips for not being victimized for human trafficking.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
First of all, the one that makes this.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
You know, the duh moment is used common sense think
before you act eb a right. So routine activities theory
states that there is an ecological convergence of.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Factors that lead to crime.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
You need to have an offender, so you have to
have somebody who's a bad guy, maybe at a bus station, right,
And then you have to have a suitable target, so
this is a runaway who wants to go to Hollywood
to be an actress. And then you have to have
the absence of a capable guardian, so there's no body
to watch this minor coming off of us, and they're
(29:01):
looking at big bad La and thinking they're going to
be the next star in a sitcom or something. And
if that offender has that opportunity, he's going to groom them,
manipulate them, and force them into forced sex or labor.
So how do you reverse that, you know, trying to
find a capable guardian?
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Being aware.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
As we mentioned earlier, some of the environmental aspects, things
that seem out of line. Report what you see, right,
see something, say something. If you're part of the at
risk you know population, a woman or a child, pay
special attention to the potential threats around you. Somebody who's
offering you a deal, you know it's too good to
be true. Somebody's offering you a ride someplace, somebody's offering
(29:42):
you a replace to stay, those could all be gateways
for that person to manipulate or exploit you. If doing
business on Craigslist or other social media sites, do your homework.
You want to meet people in public before you meet
them in private. You want to gain some trust and
understand where they're coming from first. If traveling overseas, register
with the United States Embassy, least let the United States
(30:04):
Embassy know that you're in Belieze.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
And going in the jungles right.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Never give anyone your passport, eat strangers, as I mentioned,
in public places. If taking Uber other transportation, GPS the
directions beforehand so you know the shortest way to get
to your destination.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Kay. A lot of people don't do that, and it's
probably a safe preventive measure to do.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
So.
Speaker 4 (30:29):
If you know you're going a different route, then you
should be going. You can immediately ask the driver what's
going on. Remember it's okay to politely turn down a
ride or an offer of help. So if you feel
the hairs in the back of your neck start to rise,
those are fear indicators. There's a book, Gavin de Becker's
book Gift of Fear and oftentimes we suppress what I
(30:52):
refer to as disruptors. Conflict doesn't just happen. It comes
from disruptors that are suppressed or ignored, right, And so
if if you don't define what those disruptors are, then
you can't do a proper threat analysis, and so you
may end up in some conflict, and conflict that's not
resolved becomes a crisis.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
So it doesn't just happen.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
There's a sequence of events that you can identify, measure,
and take appropriate action. So, again, as I mentioned spotting
victims of human trafficking, there are signs both physical and emotional.
Children victims often have the following emotional You talked about
some psychological aspects, but there's also some emotional They often
suffer from low self esteem and self work. Children who've
(31:32):
been trafficked often suffer from low cognitive function because they're
not going to school. There's a general distrust of adults,
of all adults, because they've been abused by adults.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Right.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
They can suffer from disassociated disorders known mainly as multiple
identity disorders. A lot of children that have been exploited
sexually are over sexualized, so they may hold people inappropriately
or try to gain affection by doing acts that are inappropriate,
and they also commit a lot of self harm, whether
(32:04):
it's cutting or other forms of self harm. These same
victims can suffer from the Stockholm effect with their their
the people that are manipulating them. They often have fear,
anxiety disorders, depression, guilt, self blame, anger, and once they
are removed from that toxic environment, they often suffer from ETSD.
(32:27):
So they a lot of these young people that are
exploited do need a lot of care, sometimes lifetime care
because of their experiences.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
They made some great tips and if I'm just gonna
ad a couple of things where we wrap up one
of the things again, you can catch the situational awareness
tactic podcasts as well when I do some of these tips,
but those of foreign countries. If you're going to a
foreign country, be aware of some of the things you
may encounter, some of the dangers. Taxi cabs. A lot
of times some countries, taxi cabs can actually be working
(32:59):
for the car tells. For instance, a lot of times
the cab drivers, if they know a particular target, they
may take that person for whether it's kidnapping or human trafficking, look,
the movie has got some things that are a little
far fetched because it's Hollywood, but some things aren't too
far from the truth, which was taken by Liam Neeson
when he had the two young girls and they went
over camera overs Italy or whatnot when they had the country.
(33:19):
But again they didn't follow Andy's advice. They got into
a stranger's car that was going to join them in
a taxicab. The taxicab was in on it with the individual.
But I remember correctly, I might be off. I'm sure
I hear about it from the comments.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
It was great. Great movie.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, great movie. I think you've done that a couple
of times already in your life, kind of saved people
and went around beating up the bad guys.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Oh yeah, a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
I could have sworn, he told me folks one time,
I have a special special set of skills, but I
can't remember when I do.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
But either way, I have worked a couple of kidnapping cases,
so they're very high. There's high stress involved because you're
dealing with the clock, you're dealing with time. And in
the one case that I worked, one kidnapping when was
a child kidnapping from a hospital in Birmingham, Alabama, actually
did recover that child with the help of the community.
(34:14):
Another case was the Carrie Laws and kidnapping. I don't
know if we talked about that case or not, but
she was a daughter of She was an heiress of
a father who developed the stonewashed process for blue jeans.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Very wealthy family. It was a traditional kidnapping. Uh.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
She was She was murdered and that was twenty nine
years ago this past September. Her body has never been recovered.
That that kidnapping took a took place over course of
three days. There was money drops. I mean, it was
really what you would see in a movie. The only
bad part of it was not the happy ending. We
ended up catching the bad guy gun named Jerry Bland.
(34:52):
You can look it up on the at old Google
like Jerry Bland ended up committing suicide as as law
enforcement closed in on.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
And a couple other things. Look out for hotels. There
was a case down in Mexico City a few months
back where the manager and the room keeper actually were
in on it together when they saw particular individuals that
fitted the criteria that they were told would fit for
a perfect kidnapping or a human trafficking situation, they would
immediately once the people moved into the room, they would
(35:22):
inform the individuals who would come later and then take
them hostage in their own room the hotel. So again,
when you're traveling different countries, learn South Africa, there were
parts where they were putting roadblocks and stopping people that
are addressed like police officers, and they know tourists don't
know what they look like. They'll be able to take
advantage of you in that situation as well. Not to
scare you, but look understand where you're going. Andy, very
(35:44):
interesting topic, very sad topic, but I'm glad we covered it.
We covered a lot of territory today.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Well, I think what's important is to know that there
are resources out there, and there are agencies out there
working these crimes and trying to keep the community safer.
I tip my hat to all of those local, state,
and federal agencies and the community that helps them identify
where the bad guys are and bring some of these
(36:10):
young people home safe in town.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
You follow me on Twitter, folks, you know I've said
those countless times. The federal government, especially law enforcement especially,
they're always working. They're always working. We just don't see
them on the news. They don't get the coverage. We
get these sensational life stories of what else is going on.
But if you follow them a Department of Justice, if
you follow the FBI on Twitter, if you follow the CIA,
you're gonna see cases every day, convictions boom boom, boom
(36:33):
boom of things that are happening, and you'll be like,
what the world is going on? And same thing with CBP.
If you follow them, you're going to see all sorts
of things that are happening in regards to drug trafficking
and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
So you know, my son's on the border in Laredo, Texas,
and you know he's he's keeping a safe on that border.
I have a daughter that works in a state I
can't mention does a lot of work for the FBI,
and then my wife. If you're a pedophile anywhere around here,
you got some problems.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
This is really good.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Well again, Andy, thanks again, folks. Check out be Hero
Science Unit LLC dot com. You don't want to mess
it out. It's for Andy. As you can see a
wrap behind him of the Hero Science Unit LLC dot com.
I'll put that in the description if you want the
link if you're gonna check it out. Andy, thanks again
for a great show.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Thank you Carlos. I think I'm gonna go get a haircut.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
All right, let's do it a hi.
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