March 3, 2025 • 51 mins
Dealing with chronic pain and you've tried everything to combat it? Author and mother Nicole Sachs may have the answer for you. Suffering from debilitating back pain since the age of 19, Nicole used brain science to alleviate her pain and lead a fulfilling life. Join the Moms as they discuss Nicole's new book, Mind Your Body: A Revolutionary Program to Release Chronic Pain and Anxiety.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hi, Welcome to Inside the Mom's Club, where being a
mom is the coolest place to be. Here in the
Mom's Club, we believe that what embarrasses you now will
make a great story later. And let's face it, you
don't laugh sometimes you're gonna cry. Join us in having
a good laugh together. I'm Monica Samuels. You are now
(00:35):
inside the Mom's Club, your private destination for all things mom. Welcome, moms,
Welcome to Inside the Mom's Club. I'm your host, Monica Samuels,
and I'm here with my very special co host today,
Lisa Morris, who is also my sister. So she is
(00:57):
co hosting today with me because she is going to
give you a little insight into into me. I've shared
many times on this show that I'm a wretched dancer,
but I don't think anybody knows that as well as
my sister. So so from on a scale from one
to ten, with one being you know, I'm not hardly
(01:21):
moving it's so bad, or no, I'm actually flailing around,
you can pick, but okay, ten being I should be
on Dancing with the Stars and win. Oh my, where
would you put me?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Because I'm a kind person, as you know, and modest
about it. I would probably give you a three.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Okay, how did you expect a higher score?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, well, when you said you were going to be kind,
I thought it was going to be oh okay, but
that's okay, that's okay, No, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I mean I just was like having flashbacks to our
ballet classic that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's true. So when we were young, I was really
talented in so many things, but not dancing so but
but our parents put in ballet, and Lisa was so
good that our teacher, what was her name, Missus Rosello?
How did you Missus Rosello? Because I because I blocked
it out because I was really, really, really bad, and
(02:15):
she was so good that whatever her name was, Missus
Rosiella was she was a Cuban exile, prima ballerino, and
she would need Lisa to be got to give her
a scholarship. She was that good. So I was really terrible.
She was really good. Lisa always got to be in
the front row. I was always in the back row.
(02:36):
And what did she have? That giant stick?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, she used to slap and I don't even know why.
She was rough and so very funny. Because you Monica
could not do the splits, she couldn get near the wall.
And I was a bit smug because yes, I was
a star student. So I would be up there against
the wall like just like, and Mandica's back there, uh, struggling,
and Miss Rozella's got her stick, and she's pushing her
up against the wall.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well, not only that, she would get on top of me,
like I'd be trying to do the splits, and she'd
get above me and push my shoulders down like she
was gonna break my legs to get me to do
the splits.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
No pay, no game.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I had one great moment, I mean the probably the
best moment in the whole ballet class was when I
had injured my leg and I was in rehearsal, struggling
through it as always, and our teacher gathers everyone together
and she says, girls, girls, girls, girls, no one is
trying you. You are doing terrible. We have a recital comute.
(03:32):
You're awful. Except for Monica. She is horrible, but she
is trying. So that was my highlight of my of
my ballet experience, but has scarred me truly. I mean,
I kind of think that has something to do with
why I'm a terrible dancer, you think, so I think
it might have I really feel like it could have.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
To do with talent, a little bit of natural ability.
I mean, I'm not good at a lot of other things,
so I take my no.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But you are good at that kind of stuff. So
now you're doing yoga, which I'm really bad at that too.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Sadly, Well, I made a New Year's resolution because and
usually you never keep them, but I've done it all month.
I have not stopped it because I usually said at
my desk so much that I think I'm going to
get deep deep vein throng bitis for never moving.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
So I promised myself that I was going to do something.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So I joined yoga and zoomba with Gloria, and I
picked two things that i'd really love because I feel
like I'm pretty good student in there.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Could you see me in zoomba? I can't even imagine
doing well.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Here's the thing, though, Gloria's moving so fast you don't
have time to look at anybody else and laugh at
her because you got to just worry about yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So I would just be on my own out there, So.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yes, you would just get in the back row, no
one would know. Now, yoga's a different thing some of
these women. I mean, I'm like, I'm not doing that,
like stand on your head, do some crow posts.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
When I came in the first day, she's like, do
puppy dog.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And yoga
teachers are different than dance teachers. So when you're in
a dance class, they stand at the fry and you
just do exactly what they're doing. But in yogo, she'll say,
all right, put your right hand up, and I'm but
she's putting her right hand up too, So then I
don't know if I'm doing it wrong or so.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
That some people already know, they seem to get it
though in the class watching one step off, well, I
commend you for doing that.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
All right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Now, I'm currently trying to get back into exercise, but
I hurt my back. But it's a weird injury because
my back like randomly, in the middle of the day,
I will have horrible pain in my back and I
can't get rid of it, and then it goes away,
and then it comes back and the next day I
(05:40):
never know what's going to happen. And it's in one
spot on my back, and so I asked Julie, who's
my regular co host here, who's also a nurse, and
who knows I'm a giant hypochondriac too, so that she
always brus that in okay, yeah, on a scale of
one to ten, ten on that score very high on
hypochondric But I asked her, I said, what do you
think this pain is on my back that I can't
(06:01):
get rid of? And she said, well, you know that
could be a heart condition. Well, so now I have
anxiety too. So now I've got a back pain and anxiety.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
So check your watch for your heart rate whenever your
back starts hurting.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I should That's a good no.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I did that before when I had somewhat of an
anxiety attack. And then my heart rate kept coming up.
And then I called my husband on the golf course
and I'm like, you got to come home. I think
I need to go.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
To the hospital.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I mean, my heart rate is up like to one ten,
and it's this watch is going crazy. And they just
told me to take a walk around the block and
you'd feel better.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
It actually worked.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, I'll tell you what. So we have we're very
lucky today, Lis because we have someone who's going to
help us cure all of that weird. I'm not going
to suffer through this any longer. She is the host
of the Cure for Chronic Pain podcast and the founder
of your Breakawake Community, and she has a new book,
Mind Your Body, a Revolutionary Program to release chronic pain
(06:56):
and Anxiety, which is being released actually tomorrow as we
record this show, And we please welcome Nicole Sachs. Welcome
to the Mom's Club. Oh well, thank you so much, Nicole.
I hope in this brief time together, I'm gonna take
(07:16):
notes here because I think if I just follow everything
you tell me, I will fix a lot of these problems.
Because see, I've got the whole enchilada. I've got the
pain and the anxiety that was brought on by some
nurse telling me that I probably have something else going on.
So before I start there, can you tell the moms
how you got into this, why this was interested a
(07:38):
passion of yours that now you're writing books and counseling people.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Yes, I just have to say I relate to everything
you just said.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I am a.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Terrible dancer, and my daughter, my youngest daughter, is a ballerina.
In classical ballet six days a week. And when people
say where did she get it? And they look at me,
everyone like kind of looks away. So string connection to
everything that you just said. I was just like nodding
over here, Okay, get let's get down to business. So
(08:10):
I'm a mother of three. I love having conversations with
other moms because it is just my opportunity to bring
a lot of connection to what it is like to
be in the trenches having your kids and also trying
to keep a hold of having some sense of yourself.
But when I was nineteen, I was I was in
(08:32):
college and my back went out completely, so not like
sometimes and sometimes like I couldn't walk, And so I
was brought home from college, underwent all the tests. I
believe in doctors. I believe in getting checked out. Of course,
it's the first line you know that you have to
go through. And I was diagnosed with a condition called
degenerative spondylolis thesis. So it's a mouthful, but basically I
(08:57):
have an abnormality in my lower spine and I was
told at the time, you're otherwise healthy, so you don't
need to have spinal fusion surgery right now. But there
will be no more exercise, there will be no more travel.
You should be very careful about sleeping in certain positions
so you don't destabilize your back. And the likelihood that
(09:18):
you will have a biological child is slim to none
because at the time, the thought that the baby would
put so much weight on the front that I could
really put myself in a dangerous position for my back.
And so you can only imagine at nineteen to get
that kind of prognosis. It is pretty crazy, and it
was pretty dark. And you know, for whatever reason, call
(09:41):
it faith, call it curiosity, call it resistance. Because I
didn't want to get some crazy surgery. I opened my
mind to maybe this isn't the full story. You know.
I was in college studying psychology. I just had an inkling,
and as I moved through my teens and mid twenties,
(10:02):
I came upon the work of doctor John Sarno. I
don't know if you guys have heard of him, have you.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I've heard of him, yes, But tell us a little
bit about him.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
He's famous. He's the grandfather of mind body medicine, and
he's famous for teaching people how to understand that although
pain is not in your head. Okay, so your pain,
when you're feeling that extreme back pain, even though it
comes and goes, you are not making it up. You're
not overly sensitive, You're not hysterical. And even when you
said I'm a hypochondriac, I actually kind of want to
(10:32):
soften that word for people, because when you're scared of something,
you're scared. You know your perception is your reality. And
so although the pain is never in your head, the
solution is so rarely in altering your physical body. And
I understood that through Sarno's work and through working, you know,
through mind body medicine. There's so much to say. I
(10:55):
just want to say I always say it up front
so I don't forget. I had three bay I exercised
till the day they were born. I've traveled the world.
I can run five miles on the beach, and I
have never had a surgery, nor have I ever altered
my physical body. Because even though it made so much
sense that my abnormality, which was in the spot that
I was hurting, was the reason for my pain, it
(11:19):
never was. And now, through bringing this work to the
world for twenty years, I've finally gotten it down to
explaining the brain science why the brain and the nervous
system send pain signals, inflammation, muscle constriction and spasm and neuropathy,
et cetera into the body when we are in long
(11:41):
term fight or flight. So there's so much to say,
and I don't want to keep going on, so I
could like kind of make this a conversation, not a
wall of talking. But that's that's kind of the gist
of it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I love it because and there's so much of that
now that we're we're learning about. Like, for example, one
of our sponsors is New Calm, and they they we
talk about how different parts of your brain. It's a
program that triggers different areas of your brain to create
to reduce stress, to help you sleep too. So we're
learning so much about brain science that people didn't recognize before.
(12:15):
And how I mean, I just we're opening up a
whole new world and you're actually here a real testament
to the fact that this works. So let's drill down.
So first we're talking more about chronic pain or like
last week, I stumbled down, I fell down three stairs
and hit a wall and I was very injured for
a week and a lot of pain are we talking
(12:36):
about just pain or are we talking about chronic pain,
like you've got a chronic back condition, or you've got
fiber myalgia or something exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Yes, okay, so this acute pain is part of life
right where I always say, we don't have an exoskeleton.
We are soft and chewy humans. We are going to
get hurt, and so acute pain is part of life.
There is no cure for human pain. There's a cure
for chronic pain because chronic pain is an epidemic of
fear and nervous system dysregulation. So indeed, this is about
(13:06):
chronic pain. I'll tell you some of the main things
I see migrains, irritable bowel and all sorts of gut issues, fibromyalgia,
long covid and all the symptoms of long covid. We
have miraculous, stunning success stories. And one of the things
I did in the book that I was very very
intent on is the end of every chapter is another
(13:26):
person's story in their own words. People from all walks
of life, all corners of the globe, all genders also
say economic status, like pain is the great equalizer. When
we suffer, we suffer the same. So this is about
chronic pain and a confused dance between your brain, your
nervous system, and your physical body that causes you to
(13:50):
get stuck in that fight or flight cycle, and the
pain signals are sent as a form of protection. So
it's a little bit wild when you start really learning
about it, but it is more scientific than surgery. It
blows your mind when you start to understand, which is
why I really boiled it down and put it in
(14:10):
the book so people could have it like bite sized
pieces because it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And you have you've developed three pillars, two that you
go through for this process. So the first one is
believe what is what is that?
Speaker 6 (14:24):
So the thing about the three pillars, I look at
them like three legs of a stool, and we all
know if you have one leg of a stool lopped off,
it will not stand. So it's believed. Do the work
in patience and kindness for yourself. And you know, I
know we're sitting here talking to Mom's my goodness, are
we the hardest people on ourselves? You know? It's like
we want to do everything, we want to be able
(14:45):
to be there for our kids all the time. And
then we hear, well, you should also be taking care
of yourself, and we're like trying to do that, and
then we have families and sometimes we're also working. Like
it's just so much and so, but you asked about
believe believe is this your perception is your reality, like
I said, And so if you perceive yourself to be unsafe,
(15:07):
Let's say you're walking down the street and you see
a shadows around the corner and you think that looks
like the shape of a predator, of a person that
could jump out and hurt me. Your body starts to
prepare for either fighting, fleeing, freezing, or more complicated as fawning,
which is like super people pleasing, like you're going to
(15:27):
try to get yourself out of the situation, whether or
not there's an actual predator. Your body responds the same.
So if you get kind of further down the street
and you go, oh, my goodness, that's a bush. It's
waving in the wind, and it had threw off a shadow,
you will regulate. Your nervous system will regulate. It'll take
a minute, but you'll get back to understanding that you're okay.
(15:49):
But here's the problem. We live in a society in
twenty first century society of an onslaught of predators. Your
spouse is a predator because they walk in the room
and they're like, oh, why do they have that look
on their face. Your boss is a predator because they
speak to you in a way that just reminds you
of the way your mother used to criticize you. Your
children are predators. Your children are bloodthirsty predators, right, I
(16:12):
mean your children are just like need, need, need, and
constantly making you feel like you're not doing enough. And
it's not their fault, but it's just the way they are.
I've raised three of them, and so it's just about understanding.
Believe is kind of two things. It's marinating in the material.
As you mentioned, I have a podcast called The Cure
(16:34):
for Chronic Pain. Since twenty eighteen, I've almost never missed
a week, so hundreds of episodes of topics, of interviews
with people hearing stuff in their own words. So that's
part of belief. Like we are raised in the Western
medical model. Okay, we're raised to take a pill, We're
raised to have a surgery. We're raised to have a
procedure or maybe an alternative procedure. As soon as anyone
(16:56):
says that your emotions or trauma could be involved in
your physical People tend to be like, oh no, no, no,
my pain is real, you know, don't tell me the
pain is in my head. So I have to start
with believe read about the brain science.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
I have every study linked in the book. Like, it's
just about getting yourself to the place where you're regulated
enough and then you can do the work, which is
the second pillar.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, it's interesting when you talk about fight or flight too.
I deal with a lot of anxiety, not just the
idea that I might have a heart attack. That just
adds to it. But someone told me one way. So
when I'm on a plane sometimes I feel claustrophobic and
I want to get out, And that's the fighter flight,
like something bad is gonna happen. And someone told me
that you just take your finger your opposite side of
(17:43):
your body and you hit your you just start tapping,
like they have a whole tapping regimen now to reset
your body. Just what you're saying your brain is It's
not like I'm physically gonna die because I'm in That's
what I'm feeling. It's what my body is perceiving that
I'm going through exactly.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
And here's a good metaphor that I feel like is
helpful for people. So if a building is on fire,
the fire alarm goes off, and the fire alarm is screaming.
The fire alarm is loud because the fire alarm needs
to get somebody's attention that there's a problem here. But
the fire alarm is not the problem. It's an indication
that there's a problem, but it's super loud. So picture
(18:27):
if the fire company came and they started dousing the alarm,
training their hoses at the fire alarm, so it's plastic,
it's ringing. The fire's over here and they're dousing the alarm.
They could do it from now until the cows come home,
and that fire alarm is never going to stop because
all it is is being triggered by the fire. So
what I like to explain to people is this overwhelmed,
(18:51):
this deep anxiety, these unexpressed you know, leftover stuff from
childhood triggers. There's so much to say. I explained it
all in the book. They are the fire. So what
we need to do is stop chasing the symptoms, stop
going for one more specialist or one more migraine pill.
Calm ourselves with the belief and the material, and they'll
(19:14):
put the hose toward the fire. So what I help
people do is lower this repressed emotional reservoir that keeps
kicking us into fight or flight. Because when we have
big feelings that have nowhere to go. I like to say,
it's like the first law of thermodynamics. Energy is neither
created nor destroyed. It's transferred from one form to the other.
(19:36):
So we have this big, deep, overwhelmed our body needs
to express it. For us, I teach people to go
in and stick a ladle in the reservoir through this
tool I've created called journal speak, which it sounds like
it's journaling. It's not regular journaling. It is an expressive
writing technique that gets into the stuff that's making us
(19:57):
feel like we're in danger.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So that's part of the second pillar. Do the work,
and so that's the that's the journaling. And when I
was reading about that it In fact, when Lisa and
I were talking about ms. Rosa whatever her name was,
I blocked her out Rosella and I think, well, you know,
maybe that's part of the source of my inability to dance.
I mean, yes, I lack talent, but yes, it was
(20:21):
traumatic to be bad. It's something that bad and be
called out for it constantly and like almost assaulted for it.
I mean like she would literally get on me and
like try to physically make me do things. So it's
just like sitting down and is it writing out traumas
in your life? Like all of them, like people in
your life that might have caused you some sort of
trauma or explain journaling to us.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
So okay, so I'm gonna is it okay if I
tell a little story? Sure, okay, because it's very apropos
for moms. When I was a young mom, so you
have to remember, I was told I would never have
these babies, and I overcame that I understood mind body medicine.
I had never done the work, I understood it. I
understood this whole, this brain science. So I had my
(21:07):
second he was ten months old, and he was toddling
around in one of those baby walkers, and we had
a deck and I was concerned that it was going
to go like there were like two stairs and it
was going to go over it. So I picked up
the walker and I went to put it down on
the driveway, and it felt like a hot knife was
dragging through my back. It was terrifying, and of course
I went into a shame spiral. I was like, I
(21:28):
should have listened to the doctor. I wasn't supposed to
have these kids, and now I've had them, and now
I'm in terrible pain. So I was in really bad
chronic pain for a year of my life. And I
actually ended up going in to see doctor Sarno in person.
This is years and years and years ago. I mean
the babies I'm talking about are now twenty two and twenty.
And he said to me, he explained the brain science,
(21:50):
and he said the best way to get at this
repressed emotional world is to journal. And I was like,
all right, buddy, I'm like, let me explain something to you.
I can't walk, I can't care for my children. Like
what do you mean journal about it? And he said,
I know it sounds too easy to be true, but
it's not. Because you will feel resistance. But if you
can get to what's really in there that you're resisting
(22:14):
and that's causing your nervous system to think that there's
a predator afoot, your back pain will go away. Now
I understand how nuts this sounds. So I sit down
and I start journaling, and there like I said, this
is I teach this. It's way too much talk about
one session, but I want to give people a taste
and inspire them that there is tremendous hope, specifically for
(22:35):
people whose pain is not something where like a doctor
is telling them we can fix this. This is really
for people who are often told you're going to have
to live with it, or there's a diagnosis but no cure.
I start journaling and I'm journally about motherhood and I'm like,
I'm really tired to babies and cribs, to babies and diapers.
This wasn't the plan because I wasn't you know, I
(22:56):
got pregnant. I wasn't planning on having two so close together.
And I just got this voice this whatever happens when
we have our little awakenings, and it said, you're lying,
and I was like, I'm not lying. This is my life,
and I just knew innately. I knew that this wasn't
the type of journaling that that was going to help me.
This wasn't what was in there. And I just got
(23:18):
really brave and I knew it. It was like in
there and it was rising and I wrote the first
line of journal speak ever penned, and the line was
I hate being a mother. And it was the most
shocking thing to come out of me, because first of all,
I'd wanted these babies since I was ten. I didn't
think I was going to have them. And I started
(23:39):
writing and I just was like, screw it, I'm just
going to tell the truth. So I start just ripping
through the pages and I'm like, I hate this. I'm
terrible at it, I'm failing. I have the wrong baby,
my daughter doesn't look like me. I'm just really writing
what you would imagine is ridiculous stuff. And then I
just went off on my parents, like they made to
(24:00):
verbal decisions and blah blah blah. Then I started I
went in on myself, you know, self loathing. What's wrong
with you? Why are you so weak? You should be
able to do this. But here's the magic, and I
really want to tell you it is. And by the way,
I am one story. There are hundreds of thousands of
people I've worked with over the years that are completely
symptom free. So this is like an incredible movement. I
(24:20):
realized something that in a million years. You could have
given me a lie detective test and I wouldn't have known,
which is I had a very lonely childhood. I was
an only child. My parents had a lot of issues.
They had a difficult marriage, they eventually divorced. We had
financial insecurity, and when I was very young, maybe ten
or eleven, I made a very quiet pact with myself
(24:40):
and it was one day, when you get out from
under these people, you will find the perfect partner, and
you will have the perfect children, and it will heal
the pain of that little girl. And I have chills
every time I say it, because it was the truest thing.
And I just wept for the fact that I had
no idea that the reason I hated it because it
(25:03):
was trying to do a job it was never gonna do.
Just because you have children and your own family is
not going to heal the wounds of the things that
have hurt you. And I had no idea. It was
such a sweet, compassionate moment. But I will tell you
the truth of the matter. I woke up the next
morning and my back pain was eighty percent gone, never
to return, and I said, I'm on to something, and
(25:25):
I journal spoke. I started creating this new language about
everything in my life. And when I was done, I
threw it out. Twenty minute rant I teach a huge structure,
throw it away, and then ten minutes of any kind
of meditation, whatever you consider meditative, even if it's just
a walk in the sun, to build a bridge between
(25:45):
the journals, speak, practice and getting back into your day.
And here's the magic, that reservoir that's overflowing and triggering
you into fight or flight. Every day you put a
ladle in, you dump it out. You dump it out.
Talk about parenting, talk about your partner, talk about your job,
talk about your parents, your self worth. I teach a structure.
But here's the deal. We're scared to say things because
(26:06):
if we say them, they'll be too true, or if
we say them, they'll ruin our lives. Or if I
talk about how I feel about my husband, I have
to leave him. It's such a misnomer. It's such a
misunderstanding because if a tree falls in the forest and
we're not there to hear it, it still makes a sound.
And those trees are falling inside of us, but we're
not wanting to hear them, so they're coming out through
(26:28):
our head, through our stomach, through our backs. It is
remarkable what happens when people become willing to do this work.
A it doesn't stay true. I have never loved parenting
more till after I realized that I thought I hated
it and gave myself that freedom. And here's another beautiful thing.
And then I'll shut up because I know I'm talking
a long time. It has very interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It has.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
So I have twenty two, twenty and seventeen girl, boy Girl.
I have parented them as human beings, as who they are,
not through the lens of my own pain, not through
the lens of my own needs. So my back pain
was the biggest, littlest part. What it gave me was
my life and my ability to raise these incredible people
(27:16):
that I get to be in New York City promoting
my new book that comes out tomorrow. I'm in my
oldest daughter's apartment. I just took my son and bottom
a pair of sneakers. They're my favorite people in the
world because of their relationship we have because I've done
this work.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Mm hmm. Well, and it sounds like I don't know
if you recommend this to your book, but I guess
you need to buy a really nice shredder, so you
just write journal.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
And just so, yeah, that's what I was wondering.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
So no one else was ever going to see this.
This is just for you to You.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Don't read this to someone, do you, because you say
you just need to do this, So this is work
you do on your own, right, Yes, and.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Here, well here's the thing. Some people say, can I
bring it to my therapists? And I say, listen, if
you want to bring this to your therapist, all power
to you. Just keep it safe. Journal speak as a
foreign language. You don't want people to read it who
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Don't bring it to your mother, No, if.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Your mom's that type. I like to type it now.
I used to write longhand and yes, a shredder, or
burn it or just rip it into a public garbage can.
But I just type it on a document and when
I'm done, I just select all delete, never saved, never anywhere,
and just it's I had a client who once said,
it's like blowing your nose in a tissue. You don't
have to look at it again, you're just.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Getting it getting ripped. Is this more prevalent in people
like I'm more of a type a personality generally. I mean,
do you does this do you just start it's a
trend like this happens more in in people that are
more perfectionists or free and easy kind of people. Or
does it not a factor at all? It just could
happen with anybody.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
Oh, honey, poor poor perfectionists, right, poor people pleasers? Yes, ma'am,
it is, first of all, it can it's everyone. This
is the human condition. So we're all banking these emotions.
It's just part of being alive. But yes, the people
that are most afflicted by mind body issues, which is
kind of all of issues, are people who are self critical,
(29:09):
hold themselves to an impossible standard, perfectionistic people, pleasers, codependent
you know, you need everyone to be okay for you
to feel okay. What's really amazing is as you move
through this work, you really are able to let a
lot of that stuff go. I used to be such
a perfectionist till I realized that perfectionism is just scanning
(29:30):
the landscape and looking for where I'm failing all the time.
It's not aiming for the best. It's actually always looking
for where I'm bad. And so I'm a recovering perfectionist.
But yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I wish I was one of those yes there, you
have one right there? So given that, how long does
it do you? I mean to get someone to follow
through and not say journal for a week and I
still have a chronic pain. How long does it take?
How much time you want people to give this say yes,
this is working for me? Is there? Or don't give
(30:06):
up that fast? I mean I shouldn't say it's going
to take you.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
You're hitting all the high points, my friend. So here's
the deal. You can't watch the clock because this is
a little magical thing that I think people don't always realize.
Desire to be different than you are is read by
your nervous system as fear. When we have urgency in life,
Oh I have to have that happen or this has
(30:29):
to go a certain way. What our nervous system heres
is danger, danger danger. What if it doesn't go that way?
So I say you don't watch the clock you I
mean I also spend the first third of the book
explaining all the things that might jump up in your way,
all the resistance that's going to come, that's going to
speak to you in your own voice. It's going to say, oh,
do it tomorrow, do it later. You're too tired, you're
(30:51):
too busy. This isn't going to work for you. We
deal with that because resistance is just another for it's
just a headache. It's just another way for your nervous
system to say, look away, look away, I don't look
at that dark stuff. But had I never said I
hate being a mother in that fateful day, I never
would have known that I don't hate it at all.
I never would have known that I was trying to
heal the wounds of a sweet little girl. And had
(31:12):
I never known that, first of all, I probably would
have been living in chronic pain my whole life. But
forget that, I wouldn't have known how to parent other
than the way I was parenting, which is a lot
of desperation and urgency. So what I want to say
is that there's no timeline. I like to say the
slower you go, the quicker you get there, meaning the
less urgency we send to the nervous system, the more
(31:33):
we say, uh, okay, left foot, right foot, breathe, You
do the practice, you delete it, You sit for a
few minutes of meditation, you enter into your day and
you just trust the process and then you let your
body be your proof. You watch your pain move around.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You don't have to come and go, and you don't
have to have this just for pain. It also could
be anxiety, like we're here, we're recording our show in
lass Angelus, and these people have been through a lot.
If you can imagine not knowing that I live there. Okay,
so you're totally good. So it also works just if
you're under like the anxiety has become too much, you
(32:10):
could do the same method that you're talking about through
your book and relieve a lot of that two percent.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
I mean, the book itself is to release chronic pain
and anxiety. Because what I find in my work, and
I've been doing this, I did. I was in private
practice for eighteen years and then I close my practice
in twenty eighteen in order to like my podcast and
YouTube and writing. So I don't work one on one
with people anymore. But when I have thousands of people
in these communities that I deal with every day, sometimes
(32:39):
people have terrible let's call it migraines, and they're doing
this work and the migraines go away. They truly go
away completely, and then they say, Nicole, I am anxious
day and night. I feel like I'm up to here.
I'm like panicked, And I say, perfect, this is a celebration.
You have it on the run and it's on the
way out. Just stay calm and centered and keep doing
(33:01):
the work. Anxiety and the physical experience of anxiety are
interchangeable with so many forms of pain because it's all
this nervous system just regulation. So I stand as a
cheerleader as an inspiration and to tell you, listen, is.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
This book for sorry? This is going to ask you.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
This book was in like Layman's terms, like very easy
for I mean, you have a lot of research in
this book. If I recommend it to someone, is it
something that simple steps that they can follow very easily
and they won't get wrapped up too much.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I was always better in school than she was.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yes, yes, you know when they have chapter book, that's
when I was over there, going I'll go for the
chapter book.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's good for every mom out there. You don't have
to feel like you need a science degree. I guess
to go.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
I mean, I'll tell you the one the biggest compliment
I ever get is the word relatable.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Okay, it's good.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
That's a perfect it's relatable.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
It's me talking, so it's going to sound just like this.
The scientific studies are honestly because some people are science
wants and good like, if you need that, it's in there.
But honestly, more than anything, it's like, let's just cut
the crap and get well.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I love I love that.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Well.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
We have some we have some moms who have some
questions for you, and they are our zoomer moms. So
welcome zoomer moms. Welcome to the Mom's Club. We have
on one's zoomer mom and one zoomer daughter today, so
let me introduce first the zoomer moms. Tell us a
little bit about yourself first, and if you have a
(34:36):
question for Nicole first. Kimberly, welcome to the Mom's Club. Hello.
My name's Kimberly.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
I have two little girls. So my youngest is eight
months old and my older one is two and a half.
It's it is so intense, it's never ending. I'm trying
to think what my question would be, like, how how
(35:05):
soon did you think you started seeing results when you
started doing your journaling? And then I guess the other
question I would have with the any advice for having
two girls and just you know, having them get along
with each other and things like that. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
Well, the first thing I'll say is people see all
different timelines for results. So that's why I say, like
the best I know. Everyone hates my answer, like people
want to know like, oh, four to six weeks, you know,
and I totally get it. But all I will say
is what, however you identify, whether you identify someone with
any sort of chronic condition, or whether you're just like,
(35:48):
oh I'm so tired, I'm fatigued, or I don't have
enough joy for life. This is such a tool because
when you're not spending so much energy holding down that
which you would rather not think of out, you're freed
up in so many ways. So I just want to
inspire you, like, whatever it is that you're dealing with,
even if it's just overwhelmed with two young kids, this
(36:09):
will help you. And it's such a great way to
model as your kids get older, taking care of yourself,
pausing and taking care of yourself and mom to mom
For siblings, I mean, god, you know, it really depends
on their personalities. Anyone who has more than one kid
knows that nature and nurture are both real. Like three kids,
(36:30):
and they are so different from each other, and like
different pairings of them get along, you know, and when
all three of them together sometime kids a child, I
just try to stay centered and not be the problem. Okay,
so that would be my best thing. Don't have an
adult temper chantrum?
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Can you help?
Speaker 1 (36:46):
It's very good advice.
Speaker 6 (36:48):
When they're going at it, just being able to be like,
stay centered and then do what you need to do.
Draw boundaries, hold your boundaries. Oh my goodness, when you
say something, be your word. That is very helpful.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Good, good advice. Good night, Cindy, Welcome to the Mom's Club.
Tell us a little bit about yourself and you have
a question.
Speaker 7 (37:08):
Hi, I'm a mother of a fifteen year old boy,
and I'm retired from the airline industry. And with the
recent events of the fire being so tragic, the hurricanes,
the flooding, and the recent regional crash in DC, I've
(37:30):
noticed with conversations with some girlfriends, some PTSD that's come about.
So my question for you would be what would you
recommends as a psychotherapist? And now with your incredible book,
that's coming out. I cannot wait to read it. Some
things we could do immediately to help work through socially
(37:54):
together to help each other with that with PTSD.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
That's a great question, because that is the other day.
My husband texted me from a plane going into DC
after that crash, and he said, pray for me. We're
about we're on our descent. And I thought that that's
real and the fires and everything else. So that's great question.
Speaker 6 (38:12):
Oh, it is a great question. And by the way,
I am from West LA and thank god our house
is fine, but we have many, many friends who lost everything.
So I'm really relating to everything that both of you
guys are saying. So here's the best thing I can
say to you, Cindy. Community is everything. What I have
found is that so many people suffer alone. They just
(38:33):
don't make that one little extra effort to reach out
and connect with people, because when you know that you're
in it with somebody else, it just makes everything easier
to bear. I got on a plane the day after
because I had to come out to New York for
this book launch. The day after that that crash, and
then of course the next morning was that terrible helicopter
(38:53):
accident in Philly, Like it was so much was going on,
and I just reached out to my people and I
was like, can we take a moment and just like
sit together on this? And it sounds silly and it
sounds like it might not matter, but I have to
tell you, we can't change what's going on in the
world right The only thing we can change and control
is our own behavior and our next right considered action.
(39:14):
And I think of that as like, Okay, what do
I need right now? Am I feeling like I need
just a moment of alone time, pause and ask for it?
Am I feeling like I just need to call my
best friend and be like, oh, can we just like
have a minute. I also have these online communities that
I meet with on Zoom twice a month, and I
go on to the boards and I'm like, how's everybody like,
(39:36):
let's offer some support, simple human connection. It's what we
have and it goes further than people realize. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's great. Janine, Welcome to the Mom's Club. Tell us
a little bit about yourself and you have a question.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Hi, I am a mother of a thirty four year
old daughter.
Speaker 8 (39:56):
She is an only child, and so I'm my husband
and I are empty nesters and been that way for
quite some time. And at this stage in life, we're
moving through generation generational issues, losing our parents, starting to
lose friends, and just going on through other personal things
(40:20):
that I would put in the category of what you
experience on this side of life. And I'm curious about resources,
how a person, a person who's moving into their senior
years can tap into your resources from that perspective, and
I think one seems what seems to be a common
(40:45):
thread between a lot of people that I know is
sometimes you can have issues with coping and that feeling
of anxiety or panic and you can't quite put your
finger on it, and it's just this welling up emotion
that you're not in control of the rest of these years.
(41:07):
You know, there's just a huge shift. How do you
help to address people on my side of life?
Speaker 6 (41:15):
First of all, Jeanine, there are so many people in
my communities that are like sixty seventy five people in
their eighties who are first coming to this work, who've
never even been to therapy, who never even did any
sort of self examination. Because it just depends, like how
you know, the soil in which we were raised. So
first of all, I just want you to know tons
of people in my community. So this is a great question.
(41:38):
Here's what I'll say. And I'm sure you guys have
all experienced this. You know what you feel like, you
don't know what's wrong, so you feel like everything is
wrong and it just overwhelms you and it almost feels
like a panic, like, oh, nothing feels right. That's why
the journal speed process, Janine, I cannot tell you how
powerful it is. You just you say, you put your
resistance aside. You know you could do all the directions
(42:01):
are in the book. You sit down and you say, okay,
I'm going to do this. Then you start your journal
speak process and then you start to journal something out
and you go, oh my god, it felt like it
was really wrong. That felt like it was the thing.
I see what's going on here. I see why that
felt so dangerous. That's not really it. And then you
get you go through. You just take the time to
(42:22):
give yourself that gift, and what happens is you're gonna
come upon something. You're gonna go that's it, And maybe
it isn't really as big as you thought. Maybe it
is something like what I thought, which is I thought
I can't bear parenting and it was really my broken
little heart at eleven. And I had to figure out
what I was trying to accomplish with these toddlers who
are never going to heel the wounds of your childhood
(42:42):
anyone who has a toddler. And I was able to say, ah,
I see, and all of a sudden nothing felt wrong
and it is a magical process. So I invite you to.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Do it now.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
That's great, Thank you. Now we have a zoomer daughter, Emily,
who's actually my niece. Welcome to the mom's club. Tell
us a little bit about yourself. I haven't heard you
had any children lately, but tell us. And then you
have a.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Question, Yes, so children, But I I'm Emily. I'm wondering,
after you received all of that really scary information from
your doctor and then kind of took an alternate path
to your healing, did you receive any pushback from people
in your life who maybe were like, why aren't you
(43:29):
listening to the doctor, or were people generally supportive of
your outlook on everything.
Speaker 6 (43:34):
That's a good question, it's a fantastic question, and I'm
going to tell you Honestly, I think my family was
so panicked when I got that really dark prognosis at
nineteen that no one cared. They were like, go if
you think you can fix it, fix But it's an
excellent question because even though that didn't happen to me personally,
like I said, I have these communities people come to
(43:57):
me all the time, and that is a big one.
And here's what I'm gonna say. Malcolm Gladwell has this
concept of the tipping point and what the tipping point is.
If you're in a room of ten people and one
person says something, you're like, eh, it's that sounds really niche,
and that two people, now three, There's going to be
a point at which enough people believe something in the
(44:18):
room that it becomes the thing to believe. And Emily,
my hope as I embark upon this next phase of
my journey with this book is that we get to
the point where people are not telling others to continue
down a road that isn't working, because this is the thing.
If a pill was working, Hello, give it to me.
(44:41):
Do I want to sit and do deep emotional work? No, thanks,
I'll take the pill and go on my way. They
don't work. And I'm not saying no pills work. I'm
not anti medicine. But what I'm saying is what people
come to me and say, I have a ten out
of ten pain and my doctor says, I'm just going
to have to live with it, or you know, this
is my prognosis, and I'm doing all the things they
(45:03):
say and nothing's changing. It's time to open our minds.
It literally is time for a revolution. And this isn't
going to come from the top down. This is going
to come from millions of people just like you, guys
just like me, who make their own personal decisions that
they are willing to replace their fear and skepticism with curiosity.
I don't need you to replace it with belief, just curiosity.
(45:26):
I do see, because then your body becomes your proof.
And then you say, well, I'm feeling great, so I'm
on my way.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Well, every medical and health breakthrough started somewhere in the
history of u kaid, so this is the beginning of
that journey. You had one more.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
I do have one more question from a mom's perspective,
because she always does this. Yes, I'm the world banker
and I ruin everything. Sorry, but my question is this?
So I have a daughter who since fourth grade she
wanted to be number one in her class and she
absolutely killed herself to be number one. And she has
so much stress in her job. She's constantly calling me
in tears because she wants to do everything they ask
(46:07):
her to do, which is totally impossible. And I mean,
I would love for her to try this, But how
would I approach her to say this? Because in her
mind she doesn't.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Have a problem. How do you get somebody else to do?
You see?
Speaker 3 (46:19):
And I never put this on her, trust me. I'm like,
you don't have to be first. It's okay, I wouldn't
but it didn't seem to matter. It was just like
an internal thing. So what would be a way you
could introduce or is there a nice way to say it?
Speaker 6 (46:31):
You know, listen, I like to say and they say
this about a lot of forms of recovery. My program,
my work is a program of attraction, not promotion, meaning
there's rarely a person where you're going to run them
down and be like you need this about almost anything.
You know, people are a resistant species. But if you're
off living your best life, or if she's complaining to
(46:53):
you about like stress, headaches, or like she's feeling anxious
all the time, or she's irritable. You might say, what's her.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Name, Casey, And she has very bad stomach problems. So
that's why I'm thinking it does affect her life.
Speaker 6 (47:06):
There you go, case you should say Casey. I know
this sounds crazy, but we interviewed this woman on the
show do you want to feel better? I know that
sounds like a nuts question, but it's like some I
could lecture to room of a thousand people and I
literally will look at them and I'll say, please forgive me.
I love you guys, how long do you want to suffer?
(47:26):
Because we have a choice. You know what's crazy about
human society is like so many things are imposed on us.
They literally are. We don't have a choice about a lot.
We have a choice about the way we carry on
in our lives. And so when people understand there's a
way that they might suffer less, there's a way that
they might feel better, you can say, I know this
(47:46):
sounds wild, but I'm hearing that these there are people
that were like on restrictive diets. This is a true story,
eating like five foods total horrible ibs diary con Diary
of constipation floating. You know, all sorts of gut issues
that have done this work to relieve their nervous system dysregulation,
and they are symptom free period the end. Eat anything
(48:10):
they want. That is a boring common story in my work.
So it's like you tell her it's there, she'll probably
throw the book across the room and say, Okay, just
know it exists in life, and when you choose it,
that'll be your choice. And that's what I do. I say,
I'm over here living my best life. You don't have to.
Whenever you're ready, I'm here for you.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
And this book comes out tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Tomorrow, Yes, I know what I'll get her by that time,
I'll get her. That is appre I'm going to give
it to my son too.
Speaker 5 (48:40):
Well.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
The book is called Mind Your Body. Everybody, run out
and get a copy of tomorrow and implement in your life.
And where else can we find you? On social media?
Speaker 6 (48:51):
Nicole Well, the best way to find me is just
to go to my website nicolesacks dot com and I
see O. L. E. Sachs and it has everything you
can see my community and my memberships and the ways
to be part of actually connecting with people. You can
go to my podcast, The Cure for Chronic Pain and
(49:11):
listen for free to as many stories as you want
of people doing this work for themselves. You can if
you want to take a self guided course and just
take if you want to know how to do this
for yourself. I have freedom from chronic pain. It's a course,
you take it at your own pace. I have so
much to offer and Instagram, I'm constantly chatting with everyone
(49:32):
at Nicole Sachs LCSW. So basically, like a few years ago,
I just bit the bullet and I'm like, I have
to be out there on the Internet and I just
go and I share and I try to inspire people.
I tell my story and I just want people to
feel less alone and to know they have much more
power than they realize to affect their physical and emotional health.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
That is great. Well, you're really changing lives and helping people,
and with this you're going to continue to do that.
Thank you so much for joining us. We've really appreciated it,
and we want to thank our sponsors, the Beaman Hotel,
who's been absolutely wonderful to us in Dallas. We've been
having great events with moms from all over the metroplex
as they call it there in Dallas, and we've it's
(50:13):
been introduced to a lot of great news zoomer moms
who are on the show. And that's what we're going
to be doing from coast to coast, shows in events
in Nashville, Colorado, which I heard it was Aspen actually,
which is very cool, all over the country, and we
want you to come to these events, meet other moms
and be a zoomer mom just like these zoomer moms today.
(50:34):
So please check us out for that. You can find
us on social media at Inside the Mom's Club. We
are on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, well who knows TikTok for
how long, Instagram, Facebook, we are everywhere, So just like
the Cole, you can find us and please do well.
I can't believe, Lisa, this time has just gone brought
(50:54):
by so fast that we've learned so much and I'm
definitely gonna absolutely stuff I need implement. Meet to so
my little speech.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
About I live a good life, don't you want to? No,
I'm gonna do it nicer than that you did it good.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I'm gonna I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Watch the show over again and then do it again. Well,
you know, our motto here on the Mom's Club is,
if you don't laugh sometimes, ladies, you're gonna cry. So
we want everyone to keep laughing and we're gonna see
you next time inside the Mom's Club
Hi, Welcome to Inside the Mom's Club, where being a
mom is the coolest place to be. Here in the
Mom's Club, we believe that what embarrasses you now will
make a great story later. And let's face it, you
don't laugh sometimes you're gonna cry. Join us in having
a good laugh together. I'm Monica Samuels. You are now
(00:35):
inside the Mom's Club, your private destination for all things mom. Welcome, moms,
Welcome to Inside the Mom's Club. I'm your host, Monica Samuels,
and I'm here with my very special co host today,
Lisa Morris, who is also my sister. So she is
(00:57):
co hosting today with me because she is going to
give you a little insight into into me. I've shared
many times on this show that I'm a wretched dancer,
but I don't think anybody knows that as well as
my sister. So so from on a scale from one
to ten, with one being you know, I'm not hardly
(01:21):
moving it's so bad, or no, I'm actually flailing around,
you can pick, but okay, ten being I should be
on Dancing with the Stars and win. Oh my, where
would you put me?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Because I'm a kind person, as you know, and modest
about it. I would probably give you a three.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Okay, how did you expect a higher score?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, well, when you said you were going to be kind,
I thought it was going to be oh okay, but
that's okay, that's okay, No, that's okay.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
I mean I just was like having flashbacks to our
ballet classic that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's true. So when we were young, I was really
talented in so many things, but not dancing so but
but our parents put in ballet, and Lisa was so
good that our teacher, what was her name, Missus Rosello?
How did you Missus Rosello? Because I because I blocked
it out because I was really, really, really bad, and
(02:15):
she was so good that whatever her name was, Missus
Rosiella was she was a Cuban exile, prima ballerino, and
she would need Lisa to be got to give her
a scholarship. She was that good. So I was really terrible.
She was really good. Lisa always got to be in
the front row. I was always in the back row.
(02:36):
And what did she have? That giant stick?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah, she used to slap and I don't even know why.
She was rough and so very funny. Because you Monica
could not do the splits, she couldn get near the wall.
And I was a bit smug because yes, I was
a star student. So I would be up there against
the wall like just like, and Mandica's back there, uh, struggling,
and Miss Rozella's got her stick, and she's pushing her
up against the wall.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well, not only that, she would get on top of me,
like I'd be trying to do the splits, and she'd
get above me and push my shoulders down like she
was gonna break my legs to get me to do
the splits.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
No pay, no game.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Now.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I had one great moment, I mean the probably the
best moment in the whole ballet class was when I
had injured my leg and I was in rehearsal, struggling
through it as always, and our teacher gathers everyone together
and she says, girls, girls, girls, girls, no one is
trying you. You are doing terrible. We have a recital comute.
(03:32):
You're awful. Except for Monica. She is horrible, but she
is trying. So that was my highlight of my of
my ballet experience, but has scarred me truly. I mean,
I kind of think that has something to do with
why I'm a terrible dancer, you think, so I think
it might have I really feel like it could have.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
To do with talent, a little bit of natural ability.
I mean, I'm not good at a lot of other things,
so I take my no.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But you are good at that kind of stuff. So
now you're doing yoga, which I'm really bad at that too.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Sadly, Well, I made a New Year's resolution because and
usually you never keep them, but I've done it all month.
I have not stopped it because I usually said at
my desk so much that I think I'm going to
get deep deep vein throng bitis for never moving.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
So I promised myself that I was going to do something.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So I joined yoga and zoomba with Gloria, and I
picked two things that i'd really love because I feel
like I'm pretty good student in there.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Could you see me in zoomba? I can't even imagine
doing well.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Here's the thing, though, Gloria's moving so fast you don't
have time to look at anybody else and laugh at
her because you got to just worry about yourself.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So I would just be on my own out there, So.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yes, you would just get in the back row, no
one would know. Now, yoga's a different thing some of
these women. I mean, I'm like, I'm not doing that,
like stand on your head, do some crow posts.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
When I came in the first day, she's like, do
puppy dog.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And yoga
teachers are different than dance teachers. So when you're in
a dance class, they stand at the fry and you
just do exactly what they're doing. But in yogo, she'll say,
all right, put your right hand up, and I'm but
she's putting her right hand up too, So then I
don't know if I'm doing it wrong or so.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
That some people already know, they seem to get it
though in the class watching one step off, well, I
commend you for doing that.
Speaker 5 (05:17):
All right.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Now, I'm currently trying to get back into exercise, but
I hurt my back. But it's a weird injury because
my back like randomly, in the middle of the day,
I will have horrible pain in my back and I
can't get rid of it, and then it goes away,
and then it comes back and the next day I
(05:40):
never know what's going to happen. And it's in one
spot on my back, and so I asked Julie, who's
my regular co host here, who's also a nurse, and
who knows I'm a giant hypochondriac too, so that she
always brus that in okay, yeah, on a scale of
one to ten, ten on that score very high on
hypochondric But I asked her, I said, what do you
think this pain is on my back that I can't
(06:01):
get rid of? And she said, well, you know that
could be a heart condition. Well, so now I have
anxiety too. So now I've got a back pain and anxiety.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
So check your watch for your heart rate whenever your
back starts hurting.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
I should That's a good no.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I did that before when I had somewhat of an
anxiety attack. And then my heart rate kept coming up.
And then I called my husband on the golf course
and I'm like, you got to come home. I think
I need to go.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
To the hospital.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
I mean, my heart rate is up like to one ten,
and it's this watch is going crazy. And they just
told me to take a walk around the block and
you'd feel better.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
It actually worked.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well, I'll tell you what. So we have we're very
lucky today, Lis because we have someone who's going to
help us cure all of that weird. I'm not going
to suffer through this any longer. She is the host
of the Cure for Chronic Pain podcast and the founder
of your Breakawake Community, and she has a new book,
Mind Your Body, a Revolutionary Program to release chronic pain
(06:56):
and Anxiety, which is being released actually tomorrow as we
record this show, And we please welcome Nicole Sachs. Welcome
to the Mom's Club. Oh well, thank you so much, Nicole.
I hope in this brief time together, I'm gonna take
(07:16):
notes here because I think if I just follow everything
you tell me, I will fix a lot of these problems.
Because see, I've got the whole enchilada. I've got the
pain and the anxiety that was brought on by some
nurse telling me that I probably have something else going on.
So before I start there, can you tell the moms
how you got into this, why this was interested a
(07:38):
passion of yours that now you're writing books and counseling people.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Yes, I just have to say I relate to everything
you just said.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
I am a.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
Terrible dancer, and my daughter, my youngest daughter, is a ballerina.
In classical ballet six days a week. And when people
say where did she get it? And they look at me,
everyone like kind of looks away. So string connection to
everything that you just said. I was just like nodding
over here, Okay, get let's get down to business. So
(08:10):
I'm a mother of three. I love having conversations with
other moms because it is just my opportunity to bring
a lot of connection to what it is like to
be in the trenches having your kids and also trying
to keep a hold of having some sense of yourself.
But when I was nineteen, I was I was in
(08:32):
college and my back went out completely, so not like
sometimes and sometimes like I couldn't walk, And so I
was brought home from college, underwent all the tests. I
believe in doctors. I believe in getting checked out. Of course,
it's the first line you know that you have to
go through. And I was diagnosed with a condition called
degenerative spondylolis thesis. So it's a mouthful, but basically I
(08:57):
have an abnormality in my lower spine and I was
told at the time, you're otherwise healthy, so you don't
need to have spinal fusion surgery right now. But there
will be no more exercise, there will be no more travel.
You should be very careful about sleeping in certain positions
so you don't destabilize your back. And the likelihood that
(09:18):
you will have a biological child is slim to none
because at the time, the thought that the baby would
put so much weight on the front that I could
really put myself in a dangerous position for my back.
And so you can only imagine at nineteen to get
that kind of prognosis. It is pretty crazy, and it
was pretty dark. And you know, for whatever reason, call
(09:41):
it faith, call it curiosity, call it resistance. Because I
didn't want to get some crazy surgery. I opened my
mind to maybe this isn't the full story. You know.
I was in college studying psychology. I just had an inkling,
and as I moved through my teens and mid twenties,
(10:02):
I came upon the work of doctor John Sarno. I
don't know if you guys have heard of him, have you.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I've heard of him, yes, But tell us a little
bit about him.
Speaker 6 (10:10):
He's famous. He's the grandfather of mind body medicine, and
he's famous for teaching people how to understand that although
pain is not in your head. Okay, so your pain,
when you're feeling that extreme back pain, even though it
comes and goes, you are not making it up. You're
not overly sensitive, You're not hysterical. And even when you
said I'm a hypochondriac, I actually kind of want to
(10:32):
soften that word for people, because when you're scared of something,
you're scared. You know your perception is your reality. And
so although the pain is never in your head, the
solution is so rarely in altering your physical body. And
I understood that through Sarno's work and through working, you know,
through mind body medicine. There's so much to say. I
(10:55):
just want to say I always say it up front
so I don't forget. I had three bay I exercised
till the day they were born. I've traveled the world.
I can run five miles on the beach, and I
have never had a surgery, nor have I ever altered
my physical body. Because even though it made so much
sense that my abnormality, which was in the spot that
I was hurting, was the reason for my pain, it
(11:19):
never was. And now, through bringing this work to the
world for twenty years, I've finally gotten it down to
explaining the brain science why the brain and the nervous
system send pain signals, inflammation, muscle constriction and spasm and neuropathy,
et cetera into the body when we are in long
(11:41):
term fight or flight. So there's so much to say,
and I don't want to keep going on, so I
could like kind of make this a conversation, not a
wall of talking. But that's that's kind of the gist
of it.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I love it because and there's so much of that
now that we're we're learning about. Like, for example, one
of our sponsors is New Calm, and they they we
talk about how different parts of your brain. It's a
program that triggers different areas of your brain to create
to reduce stress, to help you sleep too. So we're
learning so much about brain science that people didn't recognize before.
(12:15):
And how I mean, I just we're opening up a
whole new world and you're actually here a real testament
to the fact that this works. So let's drill down.
So first we're talking more about chronic pain or like
last week, I stumbled down, I fell down three stairs
and hit a wall and I was very injured for
a week and a lot of pain are we talking
(12:36):
about just pain or are we talking about chronic pain,
like you've got a chronic back condition, or you've got
fiber myalgia or something exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:44):
Yes, okay, so this acute pain is part of life
right where I always say, we don't have an exoskeleton.
We are soft and chewy humans. We are going to
get hurt, and so acute pain is part of life.
There is no cure for human pain. There's a cure
for chronic pain because chronic pain is an epidemic of
fear and nervous system dysregulation. So indeed, this is about
(13:06):
chronic pain. I'll tell you some of the main things
I see migrains, irritable bowel and all sorts of gut issues, fibromyalgia,
long covid and all the symptoms of long covid. We
have miraculous, stunning success stories. And one of the things
I did in the book that I was very very
intent on is the end of every chapter is another
(13:26):
person's story in their own words. People from all walks
of life, all corners of the globe, all genders also
say economic status, like pain is the great equalizer. When
we suffer, we suffer the same. So this is about
chronic pain and a confused dance between your brain, your
nervous system, and your physical body that causes you to
(13:50):
get stuck in that fight or flight cycle, and the
pain signals are sent as a form of protection. So
it's a little bit wild when you start really learning
about it, but it is more scientific than surgery. It
blows your mind when you start to understand, which is
why I really boiled it down and put it in
(14:10):
the book so people could have it like bite sized
pieces because it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And you have you've developed three pillars, two that you
go through for this process. So the first one is
believe what is what is that?
Speaker 6 (14:24):
So the thing about the three pillars, I look at
them like three legs of a stool, and we all
know if you have one leg of a stool lopped off,
it will not stand. So it's believed. Do the work
in patience and kindness for yourself. And you know, I
know we're sitting here talking to Mom's my goodness, are
we the hardest people on ourselves? You know? It's like
we want to do everything, we want to be able
(14:45):
to be there for our kids all the time. And
then we hear, well, you should also be taking care
of yourself, and we're like trying to do that, and
then we have families and sometimes we're also working. Like
it's just so much and so, but you asked about
believe believe is this your perception is your reality, like
I said, And so if you perceive yourself to be unsafe,
(15:07):
Let's say you're walking down the street and you see
a shadows around the corner and you think that looks
like the shape of a predator, of a person that
could jump out and hurt me. Your body starts to
prepare for either fighting, fleeing, freezing, or more complicated as fawning,
which is like super people pleasing, like you're going to
(15:27):
try to get yourself out of the situation, whether or
not there's an actual predator. Your body responds the same.
So if you get kind of further down the street
and you go, oh, my goodness, that's a bush. It's
waving in the wind, and it had threw off a shadow,
you will regulate. Your nervous system will regulate. It'll take
a minute, but you'll get back to understanding that you're okay.
(15:49):
But here's the problem. We live in a society in
twenty first century society of an onslaught of predators. Your
spouse is a predator because they walk in the room
and they're like, oh, why do they have that look
on their face. Your boss is a predator because they
speak to you in a way that just reminds you
of the way your mother used to criticize you. Your
children are predators. Your children are bloodthirsty predators, right, I
(16:12):
mean your children are just like need, need, need, and
constantly making you feel like you're not doing enough. And
it's not their fault, but it's just the way they are.
I've raised three of them, and so it's just about understanding.
Believe is kind of two things. It's marinating in the material.
As you mentioned, I have a podcast called The Cure
(16:34):
for Chronic Pain. Since twenty eighteen, I've almost never missed
a week, so hundreds of episodes of topics, of interviews
with people hearing stuff in their own words. So that's
part of belief. Like we are raised in the Western
medical model. Okay, we're raised to take a pill, We're
raised to have a surgery. We're raised to have a
procedure or maybe an alternative procedure. As soon as anyone
(16:56):
says that your emotions or trauma could be involved in
your physical People tend to be like, oh no, no, no,
my pain is real, you know, don't tell me the
pain is in my head. So I have to start
with believe read about the brain science.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You know.
Speaker 6 (17:09):
I have every study linked in the book. Like, it's
just about getting yourself to the place where you're regulated
enough and then you can do the work, which is
the second pillar.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, it's interesting when you talk about fight or flight too.
I deal with a lot of anxiety, not just the
idea that I might have a heart attack. That just
adds to it. But someone told me one way. So
when I'm on a plane sometimes I feel claustrophobic and
I want to get out, And that's the fighter flight,
like something bad is gonna happen. And someone told me
that you just take your finger your opposite side of
(17:43):
your body and you hit your you just start tapping,
like they have a whole tapping regimen now to reset
your body. Just what you're saying your brain is It's
not like I'm physically gonna die because I'm in That's
what I'm feeling. It's what my body is perceiving that
I'm going through exactly.
Speaker 6 (18:04):
And here's a good metaphor that I feel like is
helpful for people. So if a building is on fire,
the fire alarm goes off, and the fire alarm is screaming.
The fire alarm is loud because the fire alarm needs
to get somebody's attention that there's a problem here. But
the fire alarm is not the problem. It's an indication
that there's a problem, but it's super loud. So picture
(18:27):
if the fire company came and they started dousing the alarm,
training their hoses at the fire alarm, so it's plastic,
it's ringing. The fire's over here and they're dousing the alarm.
They could do it from now until the cows come home,
and that fire alarm is never going to stop because
all it is is being triggered by the fire. So
what I like to explain to people is this overwhelmed,
(18:51):
this deep anxiety, these unexpressed you know, leftover stuff from
childhood triggers. There's so much to say. I explained it
all in the book. They are the fire. So what
we need to do is stop chasing the symptoms, stop
going for one more specialist or one more migraine pill.
Calm ourselves with the belief and the material, and they'll
(19:14):
put the hose toward the fire. So what I help
people do is lower this repressed emotional reservoir that keeps
kicking us into fight or flight. Because when we have
big feelings that have nowhere to go. I like to say,
it's like the first law of thermodynamics. Energy is neither
created nor destroyed. It's transferred from one form to the other.
(19:36):
So we have this big, deep, overwhelmed our body needs
to express it. For us, I teach people to go
in and stick a ladle in the reservoir through this
tool I've created called journal speak, which it sounds like
it's journaling. It's not regular journaling. It is an expressive
writing technique that gets into the stuff that's making us
(19:57):
feel like we're in danger.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So that's part of the second pillar. Do the work,
and so that's the that's the journaling. And when I
was reading about that it In fact, when Lisa and
I were talking about ms. Rosa whatever her name was,
I blocked her out Rosella and I think, well, you know,
maybe that's part of the source of my inability to dance.
I mean, yes, I lack talent, but yes, it was
(20:21):
traumatic to be bad. It's something that bad and be
called out for it constantly and like almost assaulted for it.
I mean like she would literally get on me and
like try to physically make me do things. So it's
just like sitting down and is it writing out traumas
in your life? Like all of them, like people in
your life that might have caused you some sort of
trauma or explain journaling to us.
Speaker 6 (20:44):
So okay, so I'm gonna is it okay if I
tell a little story? Sure, okay, because it's very apropos
for moms. When I was a young mom, so you
have to remember, I was told I would never have
these babies, and I overcame that I understood mind body medicine.
I had never done the work, I understood it. I
understood this whole, this brain science. So I had my
(21:07):
second he was ten months old, and he was toddling
around in one of those baby walkers, and we had
a deck and I was concerned that it was going
to go like there were like two stairs and it
was going to go over it. So I picked up
the walker and I went to put it down on
the driveway, and it felt like a hot knife was
dragging through my back. It was terrifying, and of course
I went into a shame spiral. I was like, I
(21:28):
should have listened to the doctor. I wasn't supposed to
have these kids, and now I've had them, and now
I'm in terrible pain. So I was in really bad
chronic pain for a year of my life. And I
actually ended up going in to see doctor Sarno in person.
This is years and years and years ago. I mean
the babies I'm talking about are now twenty two and twenty.
And he said to me, he explained the brain science,
(21:50):
and he said the best way to get at this
repressed emotional world is to journal. And I was like,
all right, buddy, I'm like, let me explain something to you.
I can't walk, I can't care for my children. Like
what do you mean journal about it? And he said,
I know it sounds too easy to be true, but
it's not. Because you will feel resistance. But if you
can get to what's really in there that you're resisting
(22:14):
and that's causing your nervous system to think that there's
a predator afoot, your back pain will go away. Now
I understand how nuts this sounds. So I sit down
and I start journaling, and there like I said, this
is I teach this. It's way too much talk about
one session, but I want to give people a taste
and inspire them that there is tremendous hope, specifically for
(22:35):
people whose pain is not something where like a doctor
is telling them we can fix this. This is really
for people who are often told you're going to have
to live with it, or there's a diagnosis but no cure.
I start journaling and I'm journally about motherhood and I'm like,
I'm really tired to babies and cribs, to babies and diapers.
This wasn't the plan because I wasn't you know, I
(22:56):
got pregnant. I wasn't planning on having two so close together.
And I just got this voice this whatever happens when
we have our little awakenings, and it said, you're lying,
and I was like, I'm not lying. This is my life,
and I just knew innately. I knew that this wasn't
the type of journaling that that was going to help me.
This wasn't what was in there. And I just got
(23:18):
really brave and I knew it. It was like in
there and it was rising and I wrote the first
line of journal speak ever penned, and the line was
I hate being a mother. And it was the most
shocking thing to come out of me, because first of all,
I'd wanted these babies since I was ten. I didn't
think I was going to have them. And I started
(23:39):
writing and I just was like, screw it, I'm just
going to tell the truth. So I start just ripping
through the pages and I'm like, I hate this. I'm
terrible at it, I'm failing. I have the wrong baby,
my daughter doesn't look like me. I'm just really writing
what you would imagine is ridiculous stuff. And then I
just went off on my parents, like they made to
(24:00):
verbal decisions and blah blah blah. Then I started I
went in on myself, you know, self loathing. What's wrong
with you? Why are you so weak? You should be
able to do this. But here's the magic, and I
really want to tell you it is. And by the way,
I am one story. There are hundreds of thousands of
people I've worked with over the years that are completely
symptom free. So this is like an incredible movement. I
(24:20):
realized something that in a million years. You could have
given me a lie detective test and I wouldn't have known,
which is I had a very lonely childhood. I was
an only child. My parents had a lot of issues.
They had a difficult marriage, they eventually divorced. We had
financial insecurity, and when I was very young, maybe ten
or eleven, I made a very quiet pact with myself
(24:40):
and it was one day, when you get out from
under these people, you will find the perfect partner, and
you will have the perfect children, and it will heal
the pain of that little girl. And I have chills
every time I say it, because it was the truest thing.
And I just wept for the fact that I had
no idea that the reason I hated it because it
(25:03):
was trying to do a job it was never gonna do.
Just because you have children and your own family is
not going to heal the wounds of the things that
have hurt you. And I had no idea. It was
such a sweet, compassionate moment. But I will tell you
the truth of the matter. I woke up the next
morning and my back pain was eighty percent gone, never
to return, and I said, I'm on to something, and
(25:25):
I journal spoke. I started creating this new language about
everything in my life. And when I was done, I
threw it out. Twenty minute rant I teach a huge structure,
throw it away, and then ten minutes of any kind
of meditation, whatever you consider meditative, even if it's just
a walk in the sun, to build a bridge between
(25:45):
the journals, speak, practice and getting back into your day.
And here's the magic, that reservoir that's overflowing and triggering
you into fight or flight. Every day you put a
ladle in, you dump it out. You dump it out.
Talk about parenting, talk about your partner, talk about your job,
talk about your parents, your self worth. I teach a structure.
But here's the deal. We're scared to say things because
(26:06):
if we say them, they'll be too true, or if
we say them, they'll ruin our lives. Or if I
talk about how I feel about my husband, I have
to leave him. It's such a misnomer. It's such a
misunderstanding because if a tree falls in the forest and
we're not there to hear it, it still makes a sound.
And those trees are falling inside of us, but we're
not wanting to hear them, so they're coming out through
(26:28):
our head, through our stomach, through our backs. It is
remarkable what happens when people become willing to do this work.
A it doesn't stay true. I have never loved parenting
more till after I realized that I thought I hated
it and gave myself that freedom. And here's another beautiful thing.
And then I'll shut up because I know I'm talking
a long time. It has very interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
It has.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
So I have twenty two, twenty and seventeen girl, boy Girl.
I have parented them as human beings, as who they are,
not through the lens of my own pain, not through
the lens of my own needs. So my back pain
was the biggest, littlest part. What it gave me was
my life and my ability to raise these incredible people
(27:16):
that I get to be in New York City promoting
my new book that comes out tomorrow. I'm in my
oldest daughter's apartment. I just took my son and bottom
a pair of sneakers. They're my favorite people in the
world because of their relationship we have because I've done
this work.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Mm hmm. Well, and it sounds like I don't know
if you recommend this to your book, but I guess
you need to buy a really nice shredder, so you
just write journal.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
And just so, yeah, that's what I was wondering.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
So no one else was ever going to see this.
This is just for you to You.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
Don't read this to someone, do you, because you say
you just need to do this, So this is work
you do on your own, right, Yes, and.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Here, well here's the thing. Some people say, can I
bring it to my therapists? And I say, listen, if
you want to bring this to your therapist, all power
to you. Just keep it safe. Journal speak as a
foreign language. You don't want people to read it who
don't understand.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Don't bring it to your mother, No, if.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Your mom's that type. I like to type it now.
I used to write longhand and yes, a shredder, or
burn it or just rip it into a public garbage can.
But I just type it on a document and when
I'm done, I just select all delete, never saved, never anywhere,
and just it's I had a client who once said,
it's like blowing your nose in a tissue. You don't
have to look at it again, you're just.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Getting it getting ripped. Is this more prevalent in people
like I'm more of a type a personality generally. I mean,
do you does this do you just start it's a
trend like this happens more in in people that are
more perfectionists or free and easy kind of people. Or
does it not a factor at all? It just could
happen with anybody.
Speaker 6 (28:45):
Oh, honey, poor poor perfectionists, right, poor people pleasers? Yes, ma'am,
it is, first of all, it can it's everyone. This
is the human condition. So we're all banking these emotions.
It's just part of being alive. But yes, the people
that are most afflicted by mind body issues, which is
kind of all of issues, are people who are self critical,
(29:09):
hold themselves to an impossible standard, perfectionistic people, pleasers, codependent
you know, you need everyone to be okay for you
to feel okay. What's really amazing is as you move
through this work, you really are able to let a
lot of that stuff go. I used to be such
a perfectionist till I realized that perfectionism is just scanning
(29:30):
the landscape and looking for where I'm failing all the time.
It's not aiming for the best. It's actually always looking
for where I'm bad. And so I'm a recovering perfectionist.
But yes, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
I wish I was one of those yes there, you
have one right there? So given that, how long does
it do you? I mean to get someone to follow
through and not say journal for a week and I
still have a chronic pain. How long does it take?
How much time you want people to give this say yes,
this is working for me? Is there? Or don't give
(30:06):
up that fast? I mean I shouldn't say it's going
to take you.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
You're hitting all the high points, my friend. So here's
the deal. You can't watch the clock because this is
a little magical thing that I think people don't always realize.
Desire to be different than you are is read by
your nervous system as fear. When we have urgency in life,
Oh I have to have that happen or this has
(30:29):
to go a certain way. What our nervous system heres
is danger, danger danger. What if it doesn't go that way?
So I say you don't watch the clock you I
mean I also spend the first third of the book
explaining all the things that might jump up in your way,
all the resistance that's going to come, that's going to
speak to you in your own voice. It's going to say, oh,
do it tomorrow, do it later. You're too tired, you're
(30:51):
too busy. This isn't going to work for you. We
deal with that because resistance is just another for it's
just a headache. It's just another way for your nervous
system to say, look away, look away, I don't look
at that dark stuff. But had I never said I
hate being a mother in that fateful day, I never
would have known that I don't hate it at all.
I never would have known that I was trying to
heal the wounds of a sweet little girl. And had
(31:12):
I never known that, first of all, I probably would
have been living in chronic pain my whole life. But
forget that, I wouldn't have known how to parent other
than the way I was parenting, which is a lot
of desperation and urgency. So what I want to say
is that there's no timeline. I like to say the
slower you go, the quicker you get there, meaning the
less urgency we send to the nervous system, the more
(31:33):
we say, uh, okay, left foot, right foot, breathe, You
do the practice, you delete it, You sit for a
few minutes of meditation, you enter into your day and
you just trust the process and then you let your
body be your proof. You watch your pain move around.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You don't have to come and go, and you don't
have to have this just for pain. It also could
be anxiety, like we're here, we're recording our show in
lass Angelus, and these people have been through a lot.
If you can imagine not knowing that I live there. Okay,
so you're totally good. So it also works just if
you're under like the anxiety has become too much, you
(32:10):
could do the same method that you're talking about through
your book and relieve a lot of that two percent.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
I mean, the book itself is to release chronic pain
and anxiety. Because what I find in my work, and
I've been doing this, I did. I was in private
practice for eighteen years and then I close my practice
in twenty eighteen in order to like my podcast and
YouTube and writing. So I don't work one on one
with people anymore. But when I have thousands of people
in these communities that I deal with every day, sometimes
(32:39):
people have terrible let's call it migraines, and they're doing
this work and the migraines go away. They truly go
away completely, and then they say, Nicole, I am anxious
day and night. I feel like I'm up to here.
I'm like panicked, And I say, perfect, this is a celebration.
You have it on the run and it's on the
way out. Just stay calm and centered and keep doing
(33:01):
the work. Anxiety and the physical experience of anxiety are
interchangeable with so many forms of pain because it's all
this nervous system just regulation. So I stand as a
cheerleader as an inspiration and to tell you, listen, is.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
This book for sorry? This is going to ask you.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
This book was in like Layman's terms, like very easy
for I mean, you have a lot of research in
this book. If I recommend it to someone, is it
something that simple steps that they can follow very easily
and they won't get wrapped up too much.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I was always better in school than she was.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Yes, yes, you know when they have chapter book, that's
when I was over there, going I'll go for the
chapter book.
Speaker 5 (33:46):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
It's good for every mom out there. You don't have
to feel like you need a science degree. I guess
to go.
Speaker 6 (33:52):
I mean, I'll tell you the one the biggest compliment
I ever get is the word relatable.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Okay, it's good.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
That's a perfect it's relatable.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
It's me talking, so it's going to sound just like this.
The scientific studies are honestly because some people are science
wants and good like, if you need that, it's in there.
But honestly, more than anything, it's like, let's just cut
the crap and get well.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
I love I love that.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Well.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
We have some we have some moms who have some
questions for you, and they are our zoomer moms. So
welcome zoomer moms. Welcome to the Mom's Club. We have
on one's zoomer mom and one zoomer daughter today, so
let me introduce first the zoomer moms. Tell us a
little bit about yourself first, and if you have a
(34:36):
question for Nicole first. Kimberly, welcome to the Mom's Club. Hello.
My name's Kimberly.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
I have two little girls. So my youngest is eight
months old and my older one is two and a half.
It's it is so intense, it's never ending. I'm trying
to think what my question would be, like, how how
(35:05):
soon did you think you started seeing results when you
started doing your journaling? And then I guess the other
question I would have with the any advice for having
two girls and just you know, having them get along
with each other and things like that. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
Well, the first thing I'll say is people see all
different timelines for results. So that's why I say, like
the best I know. Everyone hates my answer, like people
want to know like, oh, four to six weeks, you know,
and I totally get it. But all I will say
is what, however you identify, whether you identify someone with
any sort of chronic condition, or whether you're just like,
(35:48):
oh I'm so tired, I'm fatigued, or I don't have
enough joy for life. This is such a tool because
when you're not spending so much energy holding down that
which you would rather not think of out, you're freed
up in so many ways. So I just want to
inspire you, like, whatever it is that you're dealing with,
even if it's just overwhelmed with two young kids, this
(36:09):
will help you. And it's such a great way to
model as your kids get older, taking care of yourself,
pausing and taking care of yourself and mom to mom
For siblings, I mean, god, you know, it really depends
on their personalities. Anyone who has more than one kid
knows that nature and nurture are both real. Like three kids,
(36:30):
and they are so different from each other, and like
different pairings of them get along, you know, and when
all three of them together sometime kids a child, I
just try to stay centered and not be the problem. Okay,
so that would be my best thing. Don't have an
adult temper chantrum?
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Can you help?
Speaker 1 (36:46):
It's very good advice.
Speaker 6 (36:48):
When they're going at it, just being able to be like,
stay centered and then do what you need to do.
Draw boundaries, hold your boundaries. Oh my goodness, when you
say something, be your word. That is very helpful.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Good, good advice. Good night, Cindy, Welcome to the Mom's Club.
Tell us a little bit about yourself and you have
a question.
Speaker 7 (37:08):
Hi, I'm a mother of a fifteen year old boy,
and I'm retired from the airline industry. And with the
recent events of the fire being so tragic, the hurricanes,
the flooding, and the recent regional crash in DC, I've
(37:30):
noticed with conversations with some girlfriends, some PTSD that's come about.
So my question for you would be what would you
recommends as a psychotherapist? And now with your incredible book,
that's coming out. I cannot wait to read it. Some
things we could do immediately to help work through socially
(37:54):
together to help each other with that with PTSD.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
That's a great question, because that is the other day.
My husband texted me from a plane going into DC
after that crash, and he said, pray for me. We're
about we're on our descent. And I thought that that's
real and the fires and everything else. So that's great question.
Speaker 6 (38:12):
Oh, it is a great question. And by the way,
I am from West LA and thank god our house
is fine, but we have many, many friends who lost everything.
So I'm really relating to everything that both of you
guys are saying. So here's the best thing I can
say to you, Cindy. Community is everything. What I have
found is that so many people suffer alone. They just
(38:33):
don't make that one little extra effort to reach out
and connect with people, because when you know that you're
in it with somebody else, it just makes everything easier
to bear. I got on a plane the day after
because I had to come out to New York for
this book launch. The day after that that crash, and
then of course the next morning was that terrible helicopter
(38:53):
accident in Philly, Like it was so much was going on,
and I just reached out to my people and I
was like, can we take a moment and just like
sit together on this? And it sounds silly and it
sounds like it might not matter, but I have to
tell you, we can't change what's going on in the
world right The only thing we can change and control
is our own behavior and our next right considered action.
(39:14):
And I think of that as like, Okay, what do
I need right now? Am I feeling like I need
just a moment of alone time, pause and ask for it?
Am I feeling like I just need to call my
best friend and be like, oh, can we just like
have a minute. I also have these online communities that
I meet with on Zoom twice a month, and I
go on to the boards and I'm like, how's everybody like,
(39:36):
let's offer some support, simple human connection. It's what we
have and it goes further than people realize. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
That's great. Janine, Welcome to the Mom's Club. Tell us
a little bit about yourself and you have a question.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Hi, I am a mother of a thirty four year
old daughter.
Speaker 8 (39:56):
She is an only child, and so I'm my husband
and I are empty nesters and been that way for
quite some time. And at this stage in life, we're
moving through generation generational issues, losing our parents, starting to
lose friends, and just going on through other personal things
(40:20):
that I would put in the category of what you
experience on this side of life. And I'm curious about resources,
how a person, a person who's moving into their senior
years can tap into your resources from that perspective, and
I think one seems what seems to be a common
(40:45):
thread between a lot of people that I know is
sometimes you can have issues with coping and that feeling
of anxiety or panic and you can't quite put your
finger on it, and it's just this welling up emotion
that you're not in control of the rest of these years.
(41:07):
You know, there's just a huge shift. How do you
help to address people on my side of life?
Speaker 6 (41:15):
First of all, Jeanine, there are so many people in
my communities that are like sixty seventy five people in
their eighties who are first coming to this work, who've
never even been to therapy, who never even did any
sort of self examination. Because it just depends, like how
you know, the soil in which we were raised. So
first of all, I just want you to know tons
of people in my community. So this is a great question.
(41:38):
Here's what I'll say. And I'm sure you guys have
all experienced this. You know what you feel like, you
don't know what's wrong, so you feel like everything is
wrong and it just overwhelms you and it almost feels
like a panic, like, oh, nothing feels right. That's why
the journal speed process, Janine, I cannot tell you how
powerful it is. You just you say, you put your
resistance aside. You know you could do all the directions
(42:01):
are in the book. You sit down and you say, okay,
I'm going to do this. Then you start your journal
speak process and then you start to journal something out
and you go, oh my god, it felt like it
was really wrong. That felt like it was the thing.
I see what's going on here. I see why that
felt so dangerous. That's not really it. And then you
get you go through. You just take the time to
(42:22):
give yourself that gift, and what happens is you're gonna
come upon something. You're gonna go that's it, And maybe
it isn't really as big as you thought. Maybe it
is something like what I thought, which is I thought
I can't bear parenting and it was really my broken
little heart at eleven. And I had to figure out
what I was trying to accomplish with these toddlers who
are never going to heel the wounds of your childhood
(42:42):
anyone who has a toddler. And I was able to say, ah,
I see, and all of a sudden nothing felt wrong
and it is a magical process. So I invite you to.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Do it now.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
That's great, Thank you. Now we have a zoomer daughter, Emily,
who's actually my niece. Welcome to the mom's club. Tell
us a little bit about yourself. I haven't heard you
had any children lately, but tell us. And then you
have a.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
Question, Yes, so children, But I I'm Emily. I'm wondering,
after you received all of that really scary information from
your doctor and then kind of took an alternate path
to your healing, did you receive any pushback from people
in your life who maybe were like, why aren't you
(43:29):
listening to the doctor, or were people generally supportive of
your outlook on everything.
Speaker 6 (43:34):
That's a good question, it's a fantastic question, and I'm
going to tell you Honestly, I think my family was
so panicked when I got that really dark prognosis at
nineteen that no one cared. They were like, go if
you think you can fix it, fix But it's an
excellent question because even though that didn't happen to me personally,
like I said, I have these communities people come to
(43:57):
me all the time, and that is a big one.
And here's what I'm gonna say. Malcolm Gladwell has this
concept of the tipping point and what the tipping point is.
If you're in a room of ten people and one
person says something, you're like, eh, it's that sounds really niche,
and that two people, now three, There's going to be
a point at which enough people believe something in the
(44:18):
room that it becomes the thing to believe. And Emily,
my hope as I embark upon this next phase of
my journey with this book is that we get to
the point where people are not telling others to continue
down a road that isn't working, because this is the thing.
If a pill was working, Hello, give it to me.
(44:41):
Do I want to sit and do deep emotional work? No, thanks,
I'll take the pill and go on my way. They
don't work. And I'm not saying no pills work. I'm
not anti medicine. But what I'm saying is what people
come to me and say, I have a ten out
of ten pain and my doctor says, I'm just going
to have to live with it, or you know, this
is my prognosis, and I'm doing all the things they
(45:03):
say and nothing's changing. It's time to open our minds.
It literally is time for a revolution. And this isn't
going to come from the top down. This is going
to come from millions of people just like you, guys
just like me, who make their own personal decisions that
they are willing to replace their fear and skepticism with curiosity.
I don't need you to replace it with belief, just curiosity.
(45:26):
I do see, because then your body becomes your proof.
And then you say, well, I'm feeling great, so I'm
on my way.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Well, every medical and health breakthrough started somewhere in the
history of u kaid, so this is the beginning of
that journey. You had one more.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
I do have one more question from a mom's perspective,
because she always does this. Yes, I'm the world banker
and I ruin everything. Sorry, but my question is this?
So I have a daughter who since fourth grade she
wanted to be number one in her class and she
absolutely killed herself to be number one. And she has
so much stress in her job. She's constantly calling me
in tears because she wants to do everything they ask
(46:07):
her to do, which is totally impossible. And I mean,
I would love for her to try this, But how
would I approach her to say this? Because in her
mind she doesn't.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Have a problem. How do you get somebody else to do?
You see?
Speaker 3 (46:19):
And I never put this on her, trust me. I'm like,
you don't have to be first. It's okay, I wouldn't
but it didn't seem to matter. It was just like
an internal thing. So what would be a way you
could introduce or is there a nice way to say it?
Speaker 6 (46:31):
You know, listen, I like to say and they say
this about a lot of forms of recovery. My program,
my work is a program of attraction, not promotion, meaning
there's rarely a person where you're going to run them
down and be like you need this about almost anything.
You know, people are a resistant species. But if you're
off living your best life, or if she's complaining to
(46:53):
you about like stress, headaches, or like she's feeling anxious
all the time, or she's irritable. You might say, what's her.
Speaker 3 (47:01):
Name, Casey, And she has very bad stomach problems. So
that's why I'm thinking it does affect her life.
Speaker 6 (47:06):
There you go, case you should say Casey. I know
this sounds crazy, but we interviewed this woman on the
show do you want to feel better? I know that
sounds like a nuts question, but it's like some I
could lecture to room of a thousand people and I
literally will look at them and I'll say, please forgive me.
I love you guys, how long do you want to suffer?
(47:26):
Because we have a choice. You know what's crazy about
human society is like so many things are imposed on us.
They literally are. We don't have a choice about a lot.
We have a choice about the way we carry on
in our lives. And so when people understand there's a
way that they might suffer less, there's a way that
they might feel better, you can say, I know this
(47:46):
sounds wild, but I'm hearing that these there are people
that were like on restrictive diets. This is a true story,
eating like five foods total horrible ibs diary con Diary
of constipation floating. You know, all sorts of gut issues
that have done this work to relieve their nervous system dysregulation,
and they are symptom free period the end. Eat anything
(48:10):
they want. That is a boring common story in my work.
So it's like you tell her it's there, she'll probably
throw the book across the room and say, Okay, just
know it exists in life, and when you choose it,
that'll be your choice. And that's what I do. I say,
I'm over here living my best life. You don't have to.
Whenever you're ready, I'm here for you.
Speaker 4 (48:31):
And this book comes out tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Tomorrow, Yes, I know what I'll get her by that time,
I'll get her. That is appre I'm going to give
it to my son too.
Speaker 5 (48:40):
Well.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
The book is called Mind Your Body. Everybody, run out
and get a copy of tomorrow and implement in your life.
And where else can we find you? On social media?
Speaker 6 (48:51):
Nicole Well, the best way to find me is just
to go to my website nicolesacks dot com and I
see O. L. E. Sachs and it has everything you
can see my community and my memberships and the ways
to be part of actually connecting with people. You can
go to my podcast, The Cure for Chronic Pain and
(49:11):
listen for free to as many stories as you want
of people doing this work for themselves. You can if
you want to take a self guided course and just
take if you want to know how to do this
for yourself. I have freedom from chronic pain. It's a course,
you take it at your own pace. I have so
much to offer and Instagram, I'm constantly chatting with everyone
(49:32):
at Nicole Sachs LCSW. So basically, like a few years ago,
I just bit the bullet and I'm like, I have
to be out there on the Internet and I just
go and I share and I try to inspire people.
I tell my story and I just want people to
feel less alone and to know they have much more
power than they realize to affect their physical and emotional health.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
That is great. Well, you're really changing lives and helping people,
and with this you're going to continue to do that.
Thank you so much for joining us. We've really appreciated it,
and we want to thank our sponsors, the Beaman Hotel,
who's been absolutely wonderful to us in Dallas. We've been
having great events with moms from all over the metroplex
as they call it there in Dallas, and we've it's
(50:13):
been introduced to a lot of great news zoomer moms
who are on the show. And that's what we're going
to be doing from coast to coast, shows in events
in Nashville, Colorado, which I heard it was Aspen actually,
which is very cool, all over the country, and we
want you to come to these events, meet other moms
and be a zoomer mom just like these zoomer moms today.
(50:34):
So please check us out for that. You can find
us on social media at Inside the Mom's Club. We
are on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, well who knows TikTok for
how long, Instagram, Facebook, we are everywhere, So just like
the Cole, you can find us and please do well.
I can't believe, Lisa, this time has just gone brought
(50:54):
by so fast that we've learned so much and I'm
definitely gonna absolutely stuff I need implement. Meet to so
my little speech.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
About I live a good life, don't you want to? No,
I'm gonna do it nicer than that you did it good.
Speaker 4 (51:07):
I'm gonna I'm gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (51:09):
Watch the show over again and then do it again. Well,
you know, our motto here on the Mom's Club is,
if you don't laugh sometimes, ladies, you're gonna cry. So
we want everyone to keep laughing and we're gonna see
you next time inside the Mom's Club
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