July 1, 2024 • 31 mins
Phil and Simon review Royal Ascot and bask in the glory of some winning tips. They discuss their recent syndicate runners and look at what impact the upcoming election could have on racing.
William Woodhams, CEO of Fitzdares Bookmakers joins our hosts to chat about his racing background and how he ended up running Fitzdares who have been around since 1882.
William chats about the thorny subject of affordability checks and highlights how Fitzdares operate their business. William has an excellent "three things to change racing for the better" to round out the interview.
Useful links mentioned in this episode:
Contact the hosts:
Phil Boyle: phil@bgracingsyndicates.co.uk
Simon Double: info@solarioracing.com
Follow us on Twitter/X - @InsideTheRails
Follow Solario Racing on Twitter/X - @officialsolario
Follow BG Racing on Twitter/X - @bgrsyndicates
Follow Fitzdares on Twitter/X - @Fitzdares
Follow William Woodhams on Twitter/X - @WIGWOOD
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, my name is Simon Double and welcome to Inside the Rails, a monthly podcast for horse racing enthusiasts everywhere.
And as ever, I'm joined by my co host Phil Boyle from BG Racing. 3 00:00:13,329.999 --> 00:00:16,390 Hi Phil, how are you doing? hi Simon, doing very well, thank you.
Making the most of the arrival of summer, enjoyed Royal Ascot last week and then had three rounds of golf in three days at the weekend.
(00:24):
Okay, so how you get on with the golf? Was it competitive? And if so, surely by the law of averages, you must have won at least one round.
You would think so, wouldn't you? yeah, Friday was a game.
Uh, Saturday I finished second after playing well for 15 holes and then completely falling to pieces.
.999Uh, and Sunday I did finish best of the group of four of us by one shot. 9 00:00:47,484.999 --> 00:00:49,115 So I guess I did win one.
(00:49):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Now, before we get on to reviewing Royal Ascot, I have a question for you.
Are you or your wife Sarah gardeners? Wow.
you've stumbled on a rather touchy subject there.
Uh, if you could see our garden, you would know that we are not gardeners.
.114790505Sarah is actually very eco friendly and she heard about, a campaign called No Mo May as a way of encouraging, nature into the garden. 17 00:01:15,118.114790505 --> 00:01:17,628.114790505 and we might have taken it too far because we did. 18 00:01:18,123.114790505 --> 00:01:30,33.113790505 Nomo June, July, August, et cetera, et cetera, things are so bad out there that we need somebody with an industrial strimmer to see if he can find the garden table that I think is still under there somewhere. 19 00:01:30,723.113790505 --> 00:01:31,323.113790505 Right. 20 00:01:31,333.112790505 --> 00:01:37,23.113790505 So I'm not sure about the next question because I need to know what's the best tomato feed for homegrown tomatoes. 21 00:01:37,43.113790505 --> 00:01:44,878.1137905 Any Yeah, I'm totally unable to help except to say that they may have some suitable fertilizer at your local racing stables. 22 00:01:46,863.1137905 --> 00:01:47,443.1132905 Good point. 23 00:01:47,443.1132905 --> 00:01:47,923.1127905 Very good. 24 00:01:47,963.1137905 --> 00:01:48,393.1127905 Very good. 25 00:01:48,703.1137905 --> 00:01:48,993.1137905 Right. 26 00:01:49,3.1137905 --> 00:01:50,743.1127905 That's gardeners question time out of the way. 27 00:01:51,348.1137905 --> 00:01:59,168.1137905 Now, you and I have been fortunate enough to have had some fabulous guests on during the last three and a half years, but we've yet to have someone on from the bookmaking industry. 28 00:01:59,608.1137905 --> 00:02:09,328.0127905 Well, at long last, we're putting that right, as we have our special guest, William Woodhams, CEO of Fitzdares bookmakers who date back to 1882. 29 00:02:09,708.1127905 --> 00:02:15,308.1127905 Now William is passionate about horse racing and betting and I reckon he's an odds on shot to be a great value guest. 30 00:02:15,823.1127905 --> 00:02:16,933.1127905 I see what you've done there. 31 00:02:17,43.1127905 --> 00:02:17,363.1127905 Yep. 32 00:02:17,713.1127905 --> 00:02:23,613.1127905 I'm looking forward to talking to William and of course hoping that our listeners will actually get to hear it. 33 00:02:23,873.1127905 --> 00:02:27,233.1127905 the reason for that being after 43 episodes with William. 34 00:02:27,778.1127905 --> 00:02:32,968.1127905 You thanking our producer Callum Ronan from Callum Ronan Creative at the end of each episode. 35 00:02:33,468.1127905 --> 00:02:34,938.1127905 We've reached the end of an era. 36 00:02:35,8.1127905 --> 00:02:40,148.1127905 Callum's always worked for the BBC alongside producing a couple of other podcasts. 37 00:02:40,198.1127905 --> 00:02:46,758.1127905 And unfortunately his work commitments have ramped up, meaning that he's decided to step away from producing inside the Wales Forest. 38 00:02:48,138.1127905 --> 00:02:54,328.1127905 After a crash course in podcast recording, editing and publishing, I will now be producing myself. 39 00:02:54,328.1127905 --> 00:02:59,388.1127905 So, uh, if our listeners are hearing this, then that's probably the first hurdle overcome. 40 00:02:59,918.1127905 --> 00:03:12,8.1127905 And my apologies if we're not quite as polished as we were with Callum at the helm, Well firstly a big thanks to Callum who as you often said to guests pre recording made you and I sound better than we really are. 41 00:03:12,718.1137905 --> 00:03:18,328.2137905 Secondly, Phil thank you for agreeing to take on role of producer and editor which has allowed us to continue the podcast. 42 00:03:18,813.2137905 --> 00:03:26,803.2137905 Right, let's crack on and ask what's been going on with the BG Racing Horses? yeah, both of our horses have run once since the last podcast recording. 43 00:03:26,963.2137905 --> 00:03:30,538.1137905 Strider ran at Brighton on the 3rd of June, I did say last time. 44 00:03:30,538.3137905 --> 00:03:32,458.2137905 That I thought he would go well. 45 00:03:32,508.2137905 --> 00:03:34,968.2137905 he managed to finish third at a decent enough price. 46 00:03:35,408.2137905 --> 00:03:40,128.2137905 So an each way bet would have shown a profit, which was a relief having tipped that on the podcast. 47 00:03:40,578.2127905 --> 00:03:43,728.2127905 Although I must admit I was still slightly disappointed that he didn't win. 48 00:03:43,818.2127905 --> 00:03:48,848.2127905 it was a good opportunity for him, but he's due to run again at Windsor just before this podcast goes out. 49 00:03:48,848.2127905 --> 00:03:50,628.2127905 So hopefully he'll go well there. 50 00:03:51,418.2127905 --> 00:04:04,588.2127905 And Bella Cavalla, how is She Ah, want to pronounce that We were hoping she'd build on her good third place at Uttoxeter and it was a little bit disappointing therefore to see her finish fifth. 51 00:04:04,688.2137905 --> 00:04:08,668.2137905 it would appear however that we were undone by our old bugbear, the ground. 52 00:04:09,168.2137905 --> 00:04:11,968.2137905 Southwell was aiming to produce ground on the soft side of good. 53 00:04:12,628.2137905 --> 00:04:19,268.2137905 Which would have been perfect for us but unfortunately we were hit with rainstorms that were heavier than anticipated the day before racing. 54 00:04:19,658.2137905 --> 00:04:27,758.2127905 It was completely dry down south where I was so I was quite surprised when our jockey came back after the race and said oh it was much too soft for her. 55 00:04:28,268.2137905 --> 00:04:33,478.2137905 It was only after I asked around a couple of locals that I realised that was probably the reason, the rain the day before. 56 00:04:33,478.2137905 --> 00:04:44,318.3137905 So I did check with another couple of jockeys and they all said that they felt the ground was softer than it was being reported as and as such it wouldn't have really suited Bella Cavallo at all. 57 00:04:44,368.3137905 --> 00:04:56,58.3137905 she's still actually quite small and she might handle that kind of going in a year or two but, she'd need to mature a bit more before that and at the moment she really needs a decent surface so, onwards and upwards next time hopefully. 58 00:04:56,848.3137905 --> 00:04:59,538.3137905 that's old inside the rails, chestnut the ground. 59 00:04:59,808.3137905 --> 00:05:04,628.3137905 Well, let's hope she gets to race on ground she likes and that the official going is accurate. 60 00:05:05,223.3127905 --> 00:05:17,353.3137905 Indeed and what about you in the Solario Racing Runners? So sharp distinction ran on the 25th of May and he was drawn in the car park, obviously not literally, but he had a very wide draw in 12. 61 00:05:17,413.3137905 --> 00:05:21,273.3137905 Uh, he ran a cracker and halfway up the running, I really thought he was going to win. 62 00:05:21,473.3137905 --> 00:05:25,263.3137905 but his early exertions to get a good position told, and he finished fourth. 63 00:05:25,313.3137905 --> 00:05:27,173.3137905 Beaten only, one and a quarter lengths. 64 00:05:27,593.3137905 --> 00:05:30,763.3137905 Three weeks later, back to Chester again over course and distance, i. 65 00:05:30,763.3137905 --> 00:05:30,853.3137905 e. 66 00:05:30,853.3137905 --> 00:05:31,783.3137905 nearly two miles. 67 00:05:32,273.3127905 --> 00:05:35,13.3137905 And can you believe it? Again, drawn in the car park. 68 00:05:35,203.3137905 --> 00:05:35,933.3137905 Number 12. 69 00:05:36,393.3137905 --> 00:05:43,633.3137905 What are the odds of that happening? Anyway, we booked Holly Doyle, who'd won on Dancing in the Woods for Sloria Racing back in 2021. 70 00:05:44,293.3137905 --> 00:05:50,703.3137905 However, Phil, the going changed from good at the start of the meeting to soft for our race. 71 00:05:50,923.3137905 --> 00:05:54,253.3137905 And in fact, straight after the race, the going was officially changed to heavy. 72 00:05:54,653.3137905 --> 00:05:57,953.3127905 I've never known ground change so quickly within two and a half hours. 73 00:05:58,493.3127905 --> 00:06:00,523.3137905 The horse pulled hard early on. 74 00:06:00,583.3127905 --> 00:06:02,773.3127905 I think the race was about 21 seconds slow. 75 00:06:03,73.3127905 --> 00:06:04,503.3127905 So that tells its own story. 76 00:06:04,833.3127905 --> 00:06:10,153.3137905 Holly made her move after the first circuit, but two miles on what was effectively heavy ground found him out. 77 00:06:10,383.3137905 --> 00:06:12,173.3137905 But he still ran a great race to finish sixth. 78 00:06:12,553.3137905 --> 00:06:12,993.3137905 Indeed. 79 00:06:13,23.3137905 --> 00:06:18,613.3137905 And you did mention to me, uh, when we spoke earlier in the week that you were brilliantly looked after as owners at Chester. 80 00:06:18,613.3137905 --> 00:06:36,393.3147905 So hopefully that was some compensation, but what about Bo Harther's two runs? So yes, Boehartha ran back at 24th of May over 6 furlongs, and was 5th of 16 in a Class 2 race, stepping up from a Class 5 on his debut at the same track, Pontefract, the previous month. 81 00:06:36,923.3147905 --> 00:06:41,888.2147905 Then he went to Chelmsford on the all weather, and was again 6th, and again over 6 furlongs. 82 00:06:41,888.3147905 --> 00:06:43,848.3147905 But he was beaten just five and three quarter lengths. 83 00:06:43,908.3147905 --> 00:06:51,868.3147905 He's been awarded a handicap mark today of 61, which I'm quite happy with and we'll look to run him over seven furlongs in a nursery. 84 00:06:52,268.3147905 --> 00:06:55,228.3137905 And for listeners benefit, a nursery is a handicap for two year olds. 85 00:06:55,478.3147905 --> 00:06:57,318.3137905 So we'll hopefully have him out during the coming weeks. 86 00:06:57,528.3137905 --> 00:06:58,418.3137905 Sounds exciting. 87 00:06:58,518.3137905 --> 00:07:03,368.2137905 Uh, and is there any update on the other two? Are they both doing okay? Okay. 88 00:07:03,548.3137905 --> 00:07:08,678.3137905 And no, it wasn't to be sadly with Baron Barolo, three year old, who's had his issues. 89 00:07:08,958.3137905 --> 00:07:11,98.3137905 But the good thing is, this is really important. 90 00:07:11,368.3127905 --> 00:07:13,48.3137905 We found a good home for him in the Midlands. 91 00:07:13,638.3137905 --> 00:07:16,588.3137905 He's gone to a lovely home there and he'll be given time. 92 00:07:16,928.3137905 --> 00:07:21,748.3137905 He'll have a new equine life, possibly showing, because he's a really good looking horse, or maybe dressage. 93 00:07:21,998.3137905 --> 00:07:24,808.3137905 Who knows, but thankfully he'll have a productive new life. 94 00:07:25,298.3137905 --> 00:07:34,998.3137905 The two year old Massar Gelding, who's always going to be a late two year old, he's come back from his spring holiday, and he'll be named later this month, and will be prepared for an autumn debut, all being well. 95 00:07:36,538.3137905 --> 00:07:37,618.3137905 Well, good luck to him. 96 00:07:37,618.3137905 --> 00:07:42,378.3137905 And also good luck to Baron Barolo in whatever his future career holds. 97 00:07:42,578.3137905 --> 00:07:43,968.3137905 now away from the race course. 98 00:07:43,968.3137905 --> 00:08:01,308.3137905 I know you were at an event at New Souls Park stud this month So what was the event and how did that come about? Well, Phil, I've been in racing 30 years this August, and my day at New Sells Park Stud was one of my most enjoyable ever, and I didn't see a single horse run. 99 00:08:02,38.3137905 --> 00:08:06,248.3147905 Now, New Sells Park stud comprises some 1, 200 acres. 100 00:08:06,488.3147905 --> 00:08:08,728.3147905 It's the third largest stud in the country. 101 00:08:09,108.3147905 --> 00:08:14,118.3147905 It's a commercial stud, which stands three stallions, including Nathaniel, who I know you'll remember. 102 00:08:14,428.3147905 --> 00:08:17,258.3147905 He won the King George and the Eclipse, both group one races. 103 00:08:17,848.3147905 --> 00:08:20,458.3147905 The event was sponsored by Fitzdares Bookmakers. 104 00:08:20,618.3137905 --> 00:08:27,98.3147905 The tour of the stud, which included stallions, Yearlings and mares with foals lasted an hour and a half. 105 00:08:27,98.3147905 --> 00:08:45,98.3147905 In fact, we had to go around in two big coaches There was champagne and canopies and we were the live audience to nick luck's royal ascot podcast preview the first one he's done It was streamed live, but it also went out the following day The guests were trainers John Gosden, Charlie Fellows, and George Scott, and gosh they were all entertaining. 106 00:08:45,508.3147905 --> 00:08:53,198.3147905 And, a bit of a bonus, there was also a Euros football preview with Alan Brazil, Ozzy Ardiles, Chris Houghton, and Paul Miller. 107 00:08:53,558.3137905 --> 00:09:14,748.3132905 It was a really entertaining afternoon and evening, So coming to Royal Ascot itself, did you go? Not this year, but I watched all the action on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday before catching up on the Friday and Saturday action in the evening after playing golf I really enjoyed the whole week, especially as it turned out to be incredibly profitable from a betting perspective. 108 00:09:15,248.3132905 --> 00:09:21,668.3132905 Well, Mr B, you were on fire with your tipping on the Inside the Rails social media. 109 00:09:21,778.3122905 --> 00:09:22,608.3122905 Yes, indeed. 110 00:09:22,648.3122905 --> 00:09:28,418.3122905 If listeners needed a reason to follow Inside The Veils on Twitter, then that was probably it. 111 00:09:28,908.3122905 --> 00:09:31,608.3122905 only 10 selections in total across the whole week. 112 00:09:32,98.3122905 --> 00:09:36,8.3122905 And amongst those 10, we gave out four winners between us. 113 00:09:36,58.3122905 --> 00:09:37,688.3132905 they were all good prices as well. 114 00:09:37,718.3132905 --> 00:09:40,208.3132905 And we also provided a couple of each way places. 115 00:09:40,488.3132905 --> 00:09:42,598.3132905 we recorded a massive level stakes profit. 116 00:09:43,343.3132905 --> 00:09:50,493.3132905 All freely available on Twitter ahead of Racing Each Day listeners, so if you're not following Inside The Rails on Twitter, you've missed out. 117 00:09:51,658.3132905 --> 00:09:56,68.3132905 Well I wasn't quite in your league but I did manage to tip the winner of the Wokingham on the final day. 118 00:09:56,448.3132905 --> 00:10:03,738.3132905 what were your highlights of the week though Phil? Well, I fear my highlights might be slightly skewed by my betting returns on this occasion. 119 00:10:03,808.3132905 --> 00:10:04,358.3132905 I did think that St. 120 00:10:04,358.3142905 --> 00:10:06,538.3142905 James's Palace Stakes was a great watch. 121 00:10:06,598.3132905 --> 00:10:09,38.3132905 but, the rest of my highlights were all betting driven. 122 00:10:09,138.3132905 --> 00:10:22,168.3132905 I had Varney who won the Queen Mary at 22 to one Running Lion, winning the Duke of Cambridge shareholder in the Norfolk, port Ferry in the Riversdale Soprano in the Sandham and Isle of Dur in the Hardwick. 123 00:10:22,168.3132905 --> 00:10:23,8.3132905 What a week I had. 124 00:10:23,488.3132905 --> 00:10:30,848.4122905 But, on a serious note, it was, it was great to see the Royals seemingly fully engaged with the meeting and some great TV coverage. 125 00:10:30,898.4132905 --> 00:10:36,348.4132905 but, I ought to pass over to you for a hopefully more balanced assessment of the meeting. 126 00:10:36,358.4132905 --> 00:10:42,353.4122905 what would you highlight? Well in terms of betting I had a fairly good day on the Tuesday and the Friday. 127 00:10:42,353.4132905 --> 00:10:45,203.4122905 Wednesday and Thursday weren't too clever and Saturday was mixed. 128 00:10:45,523.4132905 --> 00:10:51,243.4132905 I was actually at ASCA on the Tuesday with my partner and I always think Tuesday is the best day with three group ones. 129 00:10:51,673.4132905 --> 00:10:56,853.4132905 And on Friday, I was there working, giving some tips to clients of my friend, Steve Surridge from Eclipse Sports. 130 00:10:57,513.4132905 --> 00:11:00,703.4132905 And I gave them the first three winners and some places to boot. 131 00:11:01,373.4132905 --> 00:11:06,73.4132905 In terms of highlights, yes, Rosalian lived up to all of trainer Richard Hannan's hype. 132 00:11:06,423.4132905 --> 00:11:11,693.4132905 Kyprios regaining the gold cup for Aidan O'Brien was impressive, given the history of the horse's problems. 133 00:11:11,693.4132905 --> 00:11:16,783.4132905 I think he's gone on record as saying that horse has had more scans and x rays than any other horse he's known. 134 00:11:17,163.4132905 --> 00:11:20,543.4132905 it was great to see trainer Brian Meehan back in the spotlight with two winners. 135 00:11:21,178.4132905 --> 00:11:28,8.4132905 including one ridden by rising star Billy Loughnane who won on 80 to one shot Rashaba in the Coventry Stakes. 136 00:11:28,438.4132905 --> 00:11:41,868.4132905 Now the second and third were 40 to 1 and 50 to 1 shots and if anyone had the trifecta, in other words the first three horses in any order, do you want to have a guess what that paid roughly? Uh, it must have been in the thousands. 137 00:11:42,653.4132905 --> 00:11:46,803.4132905 To a pound over 22, 000 pounds, unbelievable. 138 00:11:47,303.4132905 --> 00:11:49,203.4132905 Yeah, now look going back to Billy Loughnane. 139 00:11:49,623.4132905 --> 00:11:53,163.4132905 he had two winners at the meeting, an incredible feat for one so young. 140 00:11:53,173.4122905 --> 00:11:54,263.41229051 He's just 18. 141 00:11:54,803.4132905 --> 00:11:58,403.41229051 it was nice to see my old friend Maljume come third in the opener, the Queen Anne. 142 00:11:59,143.41329051 --> 00:12:05,13.41329051 And I can't finish giving my highlights without mentioning Aidan O'Brien and Ryan Moore, who had six winners apiece. 143 00:12:05,568.4132905 --> 00:12:09,618.4132905 Aiden O'Brien was the leading trainer at the meeting for the 13th time. 144 00:12:09,618.4132905 --> 00:12:25,858.4132905 Can you believe that? While Ryan Moore surpassed Frankie Dettori to become the second leading jockey at the Royal Meeting ever, he had six winners and his 85 winners to date places him second on the all time list behind Lester Piggott, who rode 116 winners at Royal Ascot during his career. 145 00:12:26,883.41329051 --> 00:12:27,923.4132905 Now, that's Royal Ascot. 146 00:12:27,973.4132905 --> 00:12:39,148.4132905 Is there anything else we ought to mention for our listeners, Phil? Well, away from the racecourse, I suppose we ought to mention the breakdown in levy reform discussions and the impending election. 147 00:12:39,148.4132905 --> 00:12:51,788.4132905 So nearly all our guests highlighting their three things to improve racing, prize money, and the betting levy, the amount that the bookmakers pay back to racing is crucial in providing competitive prize money. 148 00:12:52,288.4122905 --> 00:12:57,998.41329051 Racing obviously wants more, uh, and the bookmakers obviously want to keep a good amount of their profits for their shareholders. 149 00:12:58,488.41329051 --> 00:13:09,13.4132905 other jurisdictions have tote betting where all the profits flow back to racing, but we have to rely on getting a fair return from the bookmakers who provide the betting on racing. 150 00:13:09,13.4132905 --> 00:13:18,323.41329051 So the two sides were asked by the government to try and get together and come up with a proposed revised basis for the levy. 151 00:13:18,943.4132905 --> 00:13:24,333.4132905 those conversations broke down with both sides having sticking points they just wouldn't give way on. 152 00:13:24,793.4132905 --> 00:13:35,643.4122905 And it means given the Political landscape at the moment that, uh, we now have to wait for a new government and then we need to see who that government might side with to see what racing can expect in the future. 153 00:13:36,163.4132905 --> 00:13:41,968.3137905 and also looking at the politics manifestos produced ahead of the election seemed pretty good. 154 00:13:42,558.4137905 --> 00:13:49,238.4137905 Quite silent on that matter of affordability checks that has been being progressed during the current government term. 155 00:13:50,108.4137905 --> 00:13:58,8.4147905 Other than the Lib Dems who seem in favour of very intrusive checks that we've been warning and complaining about for the last couple of years. 156 00:13:58,18.4137905 --> 00:14:05,148.4137905 It's hard to know what any of the political parties getting into power will do and whether they'll be good for racing or not. 157 00:14:06,173.4137905 --> 00:14:14,173.4137905 Well, yes, sadly, Phil, I mean, you and I like to be positive people on this podcast, but yet again, we've got the various parties in racing not agreeing with each other. 158 00:14:14,953.41379051 --> 00:14:20,603.41479051 Prize money is still a massive issue, and that was reflected by less runners from abroad this year at Royal Ascot. 159 00:14:20,933.41479051 --> 00:14:31,573.4147905 So, American trainer Wesley Ward only had four runners and although the French and Irish horses were well represented and did quite well, there were less runners from further afield compared with previous years. 160 00:14:32,543.4147905 --> 00:14:35,83.4147905 As for the election, look, I'm into politics. 161 00:14:35,113.4137905 --> 00:14:36,953.4147905 I studied it at university many moons ago. 162 00:14:37,273.4147905 --> 00:14:40,853.4147905 I can't remember a general election at which I'm going to the polls. 163 00:14:41,83.4147905 --> 00:15:10,299.41579051 Not wanting to vote for any of the parties and that's partly a reflection as to what you've alluded to about what what are they Going to do for racing and affordability checks However, I do think it's important people make the effort to vote So who knows I may go and spoil my ballot paper on a positive note The relationship between racing and bookmakers is important And we have the perfect guest william fitzdares bookmakers and i'm delighted to say he's on the line now Hi, will how are you? Hi, Simon. 164 00:15:10,339.41579051 --> 00:15:11,19.41579051 I'm good, thanks. 165 00:15:11,99.41579051 --> 00:15:14,829.41579051 Welcome to Inside the Rails, and thank you for coming on the podcast. 166 00:15:15,319.41579051 --> 00:15:23,959.41679051 I guessed you were at Royal Ascot, were you there all week? How was it for you personally, and did Fitstairs have a good week? there's too many questions there. 167 00:15:23,989.41679051 --> 00:15:24,859.41679051 it was a good week. 168 00:15:24,939.41679051 --> 00:15:26,519.31679051 I was there Wednesday only. 169 00:15:26,869.41679051 --> 00:15:29,209.41729051 we had a picnic About 400 people came. 170 00:15:29,549.41729051 --> 00:15:36,379.41729051 And I bought two kilos of caviar, some Pringle crisps and a hundred bottles of pink champagne and everyone was very happy. 171 00:15:37,659.41729051 --> 00:15:39,689.46729051 Money wise, I checked this morning, we're about 14. 172 00:15:39,689.46729051 --> 00:15:42,939.41729051 5 percent margin, which is phenomenal for an ascot. 173 00:15:43,929.41729051 --> 00:15:45,249.41729051 So I'm over the moon. 174 00:15:45,419.41729051 --> 00:15:47,879.41729051 You normally get thumped one day. 175 00:15:47,899.41729051 --> 00:15:53,139.41729051 You're normally down the whole six figures easy one day and then you're okay the other days. 176 00:15:53,729.41729051 --> 00:15:59,469.41729051 Um, and what we're seeing is less activity at Ascot and more activity during the day. 177 00:15:59,594.41829051 --> 00:16:03,409.41929051 been CEO of Fitstairs Bookmakers since 2020, I believe. 178 00:16:03,904.41729051 --> 00:16:09,927.75062384 but tell us a little bit about your previous marketing career, I believe in the fashion industry and the luxury goods sector. 179 00:16:09,927.75062384 --> 00:16:25,417.75062384 yeah, I left university messed around a bit in, hospitality and then went to work for LVMH, LVMH was a great place to learn about, cherished brands like Dom Pérignon, Moet Chandon or Louis Vuitton or Christian Dior. 180 00:16:25,837.75062384 --> 00:16:26,927.75062384 These, beautiful brands. 181 00:16:26,927.75062384 --> 00:16:34,847.75012384 And it was a really a masterclass in learning how to protect them and grow them because it was a business that demanded 10 percent year on year organic growth. 182 00:16:35,327.75112384 --> 00:16:38,297.75112384 Then I went off to work in the ladies lingerie department. 183 00:16:38,337.75112384 --> 00:16:41,547.7511238 Not really, but I worked, I was running French Connection Group. 184 00:16:41,707.7511238 --> 00:16:42,947.7511238 And then other marketing roles. 185 00:16:42,947.7511238 --> 00:16:45,871.0844572 But, I fell into Fitstairs about five or six years ago. 186 00:16:46,786.0834572 --> 00:16:49,246.0844572 Well, I know your family is steeped in horse racing. 187 00:16:49,486.0844572 --> 00:17:02,69.5167905 Can you tell the listeners about some of your family members and their relationship with racing? Basically, what's, what's the, Will Woodham story into getting into racing and bookmaking? yeah, my my mother worked in racing media. 188 00:17:02,89.5167905 --> 00:17:03,329.5157905 My uncle was a trainer. 189 00:17:03,359.5157905 --> 00:17:12,292.8486238 He's now in his seventies, history, but it stems, um, from Tom Jennings who trained gladiator, I suppose, 1863, which won the triple crown. 190 00:17:12,292.8486238 --> 00:17:24,362.8491238 So if you go to Longchamp, um, there is a nice bronze statue of gladiator, French owned, but English trained, and he was the first sort of person to create an international kind of organization. 191 00:17:24,362.8491238 --> 00:17:29,322.8461238 I learned a lot about this through giving an interview to a French journalist a few weeks ago yard. 192 00:17:29,392.8471238 --> 00:17:36,52.8471238 He had Willie Jarvis's old yard in Newmarket and he had a yard at Chantilly and he would move the horses between the two. 193 00:17:36,532.8471238 --> 00:17:44,742.8471238 Um, so he was a very successful trainer and my family's been trying recreated his success for what 160 years without much success. 194 00:17:44,972.8471238 --> 00:17:49,622.8461238 Um, but the, the last big name from our family racing was my great uncle, John Rickman. 195 00:17:49,622.8461238 --> 00:17:51,822.8461238 he was the Ed Chamberlain of his day. 196 00:17:52,42.8461238 --> 00:18:06,92.8471238 I'm sure Ed would appreciate that and there's a wonderful story that he was at Newcastle once and the rest of the ITV team couldn't get there because flights had been cancelled and he called the race, did the bit from the betting ring, uh, presented the, trophies um, and did the piece to camera as well. 197 00:18:06,102.8461238 --> 00:18:07,272.8471238 So he did all four jobs. 198 00:18:08,329.5147905 --> 00:18:08,919.5147905 Okay. 199 00:18:09,159.5147905 --> 00:18:18,379.5147905 Now I was fortunate enough to go to Newsells Park Stud at a Royal Ascot preview evening with Nick Luck hosting his podcast from the Manor House at Newsells. 200 00:18:18,789.5147905 --> 00:18:20,549.5147905 Now that was sponsored by Fitstairs. 201 00:18:20,649.5147905 --> 00:18:26,559.5137905 It was one of the best racing experiences I've had in 30 years and yet I didn't see a horse run. 202 00:18:27,319.5137905 --> 00:18:31,759.5147905 Tell us more about the Fitstairs philosophy of concentrating on customer experience. 203 00:18:32,399.5147905 --> 00:18:37,879.5147905 welcome to our world, Simon, I know I love racing like everyone, but I also like the fluff around it. 204 00:18:37,939.5147905 --> 00:18:44,39.5137905 Um, what we try and do is make entertaining events where the food and the booze is phenomenal. 205 00:18:44,89.5147905 --> 00:18:48,609.5147905 but I think the glue that holds racing is that social element, that fun. 206 00:18:48,859.5147905 --> 00:18:50,569.5147905 So we try and do that in everything we do. 207 00:18:51,119.4147905 --> 00:18:52,759.3147905 uh, but I think that event was marvellous. 208 00:18:52,759.4147905 --> 00:18:55,129.3137905 And what really, was really special. 209 00:18:55,439.3147905 --> 00:19:23,479.3142905 was we had George Scott, who went on to win, obviously, and Aska, um, Charlie Fellows had some good runners, and then John Gosden was a real catch, and was on great form, Now, moving to a little bit of controversy, I and many people in racing have got really upset and actually personally angry about the gambling commission forcing bookmakers to impose deposit limits on customers accounts and also asking for personal financial information. 210 00:19:23,899.3142905 --> 00:19:26,639.2142905 What's your take on all of this? one. 211 00:19:26,789.2142905 --> 00:19:35,979.2142905 I'm going to Gibraltar tomorrow, and Andrew Rhodes was supposed to speak at the conference, He's obviously cancelled because of the political betting furo that's happening as we speak. 212 00:19:35,979.2142905 --> 00:19:40,749.2142905 Um, but he's under a lot of pressure, so I have to be slightly cognizant of that. 213 00:19:41,124.2142905 --> 00:19:44,714.2142905 We've been living in fear of the Gambling Commission for some time as bookmakers. 214 00:19:45,204.2142905 --> 00:19:49,784.2142905 We're the only member of the Bedding and Gaming Council that have never received a fine from the Gambling Commission. 215 00:19:49,794.2142905 --> 00:19:53,544.2122905 So I'm not surprised they live in fear because everyone has. 216 00:19:53,764.2132905 --> 00:19:56,894.2127905 we have take a lot of interest in the due diligence of the customers. 217 00:19:56,894.2127905 --> 00:19:59,644.2137905 but it's fair to say it's gone too far. 218 00:20:00,254.2137905 --> 00:20:07,894.2137905 And what blew my mind was a gambling commission report that's been basically mothballed for four years that came out yesterday. 219 00:20:08,349.2137905 --> 00:20:19,709.2137905 And there was an article, I guess the article was in the Racing Post this morning, that 80 percent of the 13, 000 punters that they asked said they didn't want affordability checks. 220 00:20:19,789.2137905 --> 00:20:32,339.2137905 80, well 78%, but the same 78 percent said bookmakers should step in if they're concerned by people's gambling behaviour and if they fear that person has a problem. 221 00:20:32,429.2137905 --> 00:20:38,359.1137905 They're normal people that go, bookmakers should be concerned for the welfare of their punters. 222 00:20:38,359.2137905 --> 00:20:45,509.2137905 But, bookmakers shouldn't be prying into people's bank statements, personal lives, work and information. 223 00:20:45,639.2127905 --> 00:20:49,669.2117905 it's sad that we're already seeing racing suffer. 224 00:20:50,129.2127905 --> 00:20:51,319.2127905 Now, we're not bad people. 225 00:20:51,349.2127905 --> 00:20:52,149.2127905 Well, we are bad people. 226 00:20:52,149.2127905 --> 00:20:52,879.2127905 We're bookmakers. 227 00:20:53,159.2117905 --> 00:21:02,829.2127905 But we're not bad people when you think It is in our interest that racing survives, and does well, and is healthy, and is exciting, and is engaging. 228 00:21:02,919.2127905 --> 00:21:04,19.2127905 That is our interest. 229 00:21:04,489.2127905 --> 00:21:07,229.2127905 but it is, it's a broken model at the moment. 230 00:21:07,949.2127905 --> 00:21:11,989.2127905 you know, the gambling commission's affordability has compounded that issue tenfold. 231 00:21:12,259.2117905 --> 00:21:15,699.2127905 So we already had problems and now we've been heaped on this. 232 00:21:16,59.2117905 --> 00:21:27,789.2127905 And second to this, which is something people forget, a lot of the technology in bookmaking, particularly at the consumer end, so apps and stuff, hasn't really improved in five or six years. 233 00:21:28,309.2127905 --> 00:21:32,119.2127905 because bookmakers invest all of their technology money in compliance tools. 234 00:21:32,839.2127905 --> 00:21:39,929.2117905 So all of the money we're investing in our businesses is to keep the gambling commission happy, not to keep the punters happy. 235 00:21:40,159.2127905 --> 00:21:43,309.2117905 I'll change the subject completely onto something a little bit less contentious. 236 00:21:43,319.2127905 --> 00:21:50,909.2127905 So Simon and I set the podcast up to try and promote syndicates or racehorse ownership in general, syndicates, racing clubs, things like that. 237 00:21:51,489.2127905 --> 00:21:59,74.2127905 Have you got any views on the importance of syndication? And what sort of level of ownership involvement have you had? there's a few things that I think could save racing. 238 00:21:59,514.2127905 --> 00:22:07,484.2127905 One, I think, is if we can encourage people to in, in race bet more, And um, the other thing that will save racing is syndication. 239 00:22:08,114.2127905 --> 00:22:10,164.2127905 It gives you skin in the game. 240 00:22:10,194.2117905 --> 00:22:18,64.0107905 And I'm on a five person syndicate with Ben Pauling I cannot support syndication enough. 241 00:22:18,334.0117905 --> 00:22:21,164.0117905 I just think it is the absolute future of racing. 242 00:22:21,204.0117905 --> 00:22:25,614.0117905 And my mother is a 1, 000th share owner of a horse. 243 00:22:25,944.0127905 --> 00:22:27,844.0127905 She thinks she owns the horse. 244 00:22:28,44.0127905 --> 00:22:29,434.0127905 And that is the beauty of it. 245 00:22:29,534.0127905 --> 00:22:29,854.0127905 Brilliant. 246 00:22:29,894.0127905 --> 00:22:34,4.0127905 Well, delighted to hear you speak so passionately about syndication. 247 00:22:34,964.0137905 --> 00:22:40,664.1137905 What about away from the racetrack? What else do you do, Will? of We sponsor Fulham, but I actually only went once this season. 248 00:22:40,989.1137905 --> 00:22:44,219.1137905 yeah, I go to a bit of sport, but it's a bit of a busman's holiday. 249 00:22:44,419.1137905 --> 00:22:52,999.1137905 my wife's a DJ, so I travel the world when I can to watch her play, which I absolutely love, because I love a dance. 250 00:22:53,119.1137905 --> 00:22:56,619.1137905 I'm terrible, but I love, you know, house music and nightclubs. 251 00:22:57,174.1137905 --> 00:22:58,84.1137905 When you're with a DJ. 252 00:22:58,84.1137905 --> 00:23:00,284.1137905 If you're not with a DJ, they're a miserable experience. 253 00:23:00,364.1137905 --> 00:23:01,594.1137905 um, so I love a bit of that. 254 00:23:01,774.1137905 --> 00:23:02,904.1137905 I've got a three year old. 255 00:23:02,934.1137905 --> 00:23:05,74.1137905 I could spend 28 hours a day with him. 256 00:23:05,74.1137905 --> 00:23:06,664.1137905 He's just very entertaining. 257 00:23:06,784.1137905 --> 00:23:08,374.1127905 He's, that's another thing. 258 00:23:08,494.1137905 --> 00:23:09,254.1137905 You've got me on to another subject. 259 00:23:09,604.1137905 --> 00:23:10,884.1137905 Take your kids racing. 260 00:23:11,424.1137905 --> 00:23:16,314.1137905 Every time we talk to a big punter, How did you get into racing? My grandad took me when I was a kid. 261 00:23:16,964.1137905 --> 00:23:18,24.1137905 Always the same line. 262 00:23:18,84.1137905 --> 00:23:19,394.1137905 My grandad took me when I was a kid. 263 00:23:19,884.1137905 --> 00:23:21,144.1137905 Because his grandad wants to go racing. 264 00:23:21,344.1137905 --> 00:23:24,214.1127905 There's nothing like a grandchild as an excuse to go racing. 265 00:23:24,724.1762905 --> 00:23:25,854.1762905 Take your kids racing. 266 00:23:25,904.1762905 --> 00:23:27,974.1762905 I just, I love spending time with my son. 267 00:23:28,134.1762905 --> 00:23:29,764.1772905 Taking him racing is an absolute joy. 268 00:23:29,814.1772905 --> 00:23:31,684.1772905 I But, um, food is the answer to your question. 269 00:23:31,824.1772905 --> 00:23:34,734.1772905 you know, I love taking clients to nice restaurants, which is why I'm so fat. 270 00:23:35,359.1147905 --> 00:23:37,469.1147905 Not as big as me, I'm glad this isn't on video. 271 00:23:38,269.1147905 --> 00:23:49,859.1772905 And just to give you a bit of a chance for a little bit of advertising, if people want to find out more about Fitstairs or become a member, how do they go about that? Yeah, I, well, it's very kind of you to allow the plug. 272 00:23:49,859.1772905 --> 00:23:51,119.1772905 Well, fitz theirs.com 273 00:23:51,149.1772905 --> 00:23:52,469.1772905 or fitz theirs.ca 274 00:23:52,469.1772905 --> 00:23:53,969.1772905 if they're listening in Ontario. 275 00:23:54,749.1772905 --> 00:23:57,869.1772905 The beauty of Fitstairs is it's um, customer service driven. 276 00:23:58,409.1772905 --> 00:24:03,569.1782905 We, in the room next to me, we have 14 brokers, but you can pick up the phone to us. 277 00:24:04,19.1772905 --> 00:24:06,609.1782905 And you know, have a, you know, have a, have a go. 278 00:24:06,849.1782905 --> 00:24:08,179.1782905 Try and get a better price out of us. 279 00:24:08,259.1782905 --> 00:24:10,239.1782905 yeah, fit says brilliant customer service. 280 00:24:10,359.1782905 --> 00:24:10,989.1782905 Fantastic. 281 00:24:11,9.1782905 --> 00:24:16,289.1782905 The app I'd say our app isn't the best in the market, but on racing, it probably is the best on the market. 282 00:24:16,454.1782905 --> 00:24:25,24.1777905 And then we've recently launched, um, with another company, I think, called the racing app, which is, um, a free version of the racing post app. 283 00:24:25,24.1777905 --> 00:24:40,24.1792905 No offense to the racing post, but obviously racing posts has got some phenomenal features, but if you want to watch racing, um, whether it be live or previous runs in both us, UK racing, the racing app on the app store is amazing, and we're about to launch the desktop of that. 284 00:24:40,424.1792905 --> 00:24:43,554.1792905 And we've got Cornelius writing for Cornelius Slice that writes for it. 285 00:24:43,924.1792905 --> 00:24:44,734.1792905 writes for it. 286 00:24:45,284.1792905 --> 00:24:48,724.1792905 some of Mark Pugatch, the ITV football presenter, writes for it. 287 00:24:49,184.1792905 --> 00:24:54,924.1782905 actually, our best racing writer is Stuart Barnes, the former England rugby player. 288 00:24:55,314.1792905 --> 00:24:57,544.1792905 He's the best writer on racing I've ever read. 289 00:24:57,774.1792905 --> 00:24:58,734.1792905 Uh, and he writes for it. 290 00:24:58,914.1792905 --> 00:25:04,854.1792905 um, Critical to the growth of racing, particularly for syndicate members, is access to the data. 291 00:25:04,864.1792905 --> 00:25:07,204.1792905 The information on their horses and other horses. 292 00:25:07,474.1792905 --> 00:25:14,34.1792905 Everyone wants to watch their horse run um, you should have that at your fingertips at all times and not have to pay for it, in my opinion. 293 00:25:14,44.1782905 --> 00:25:17,734.0792905 Free data is the secret to getting young people engaged in the sport. 294 00:25:18,814.1167905 --> 00:25:20,584.1167905 we've absolutely loved having you on. 295 00:25:20,614.1167905 --> 00:25:25,664.1167905 one question to go and you have touched upon some of these things, but it's a question we'd like to to ask all of our guests. 296 00:25:25,974.1157905 --> 00:25:35,534.1782905 If you could change three things in British racing for the good of British racing, what would they be? the first one would be everything, the second one would be everything, and the third thing would be everything. 297 00:25:35,924.1792905 --> 00:25:36,814.1792905 I'm joking. 298 00:25:37,184.1782905 --> 00:25:41,834.1792905 We have, we have a structure in, particularly the flat season. 299 00:25:42,244.1792905 --> 00:25:47,194.1792905 I think Racing TV once called it the box, the DVD box set of the classics, plus Ascot. 300 00:25:47,859.1792905 --> 00:25:49,19.1792905 is brilliant. 301 00:25:49,99.1792905 --> 00:25:52,569.1792905 You've got a narrative through the season following the three year olds. 302 00:25:52,619.1792905 --> 00:25:55,969.1792905 You're interested in them as a two year old because you want to know how well they're going to do as a three year old. 303 00:25:56,259.1792905 --> 00:26:00,199.1792905 And I think racing needs to double down on these absolute key moments. 304 00:26:00,539.1792905 --> 00:26:05,9.1792905 Guineas, Derby, Oaks, Ledger, Ascot. 305 00:26:05,209.1802905 --> 00:26:07,529.1802905 We really need to make these events shine. 306 00:26:07,789.1802905 --> 00:26:09,134.0802905 and make that narrative shine. 307 00:26:09,544.1802905 --> 00:26:13,754.1802905 understandable to you know, Joe blogs and the racing audience. 308 00:26:14,104.1802905 --> 00:26:20,324.1802905 so that's one, two, we've got to take the heat off Cheltenham in the jumps year. 309 00:26:20,704.1802905 --> 00:26:24,174.1792905 We need better meetings for people to engage in racing. 310 00:26:24,234.1792905 --> 00:26:31,494.1802905 I understand we've got, you know, the Hennessy and I understand we have the King George, but, I've said it a few times now, I think. 311 00:26:32,119.1802905 --> 00:26:36,872.5136238 the DRF, Dublin Racing Festival is phenomenal and it's not a poor man's Cheltenham. 312 00:26:37,345.8469572 --> 00:26:46,835.8469572 we're investing in the Winter Millions, which will be Friday at Windsor, Clarence House on Saturday at Ascot and Sunday at Windsor over the jumps. 313 00:26:46,845.8469572 --> 00:26:49,215.8469572 First time in 20, 30 years they're having jumps at Windsor. 314 00:26:49,670.8469572 --> 00:26:51,910.8469572 That has got to take the heat off Cheltenham. 315 00:26:52,254.363964 --> 00:26:53,144.363964 so that's critical. 316 00:26:53,344.363964 --> 00:27:00,854.363964 And then the third one, which is a bugbear of mine is we've got to up the customer experience on all race tracks. 317 00:27:01,144.363964 --> 00:27:05,484.363964 we need commitment from the race owners that you can get this food for this price. 318 00:27:05,884.363964 --> 00:27:07,414.363964 This is the drinks price. 319 00:27:07,544.363964 --> 00:27:08,504.363964 This is what you pay. 320 00:27:08,694.363964 --> 00:27:13,224.363964 I totally understand if you're in the Royal Enclosure Ascot, you're going to pay a hundred quid for a bottle of champagne. 321 00:27:13,414.363964 --> 00:27:14,534.362964 It goes with the territory. 322 00:27:14,674.362964 --> 00:27:17,324.363964 If you go to the Ivy, you're going to pay a hundred quid for a bottle of champagne. 323 00:27:17,384.362964 --> 00:27:25,414.363964 I get it, but you need great quality food, drink, lose, experience, transport for all racetracks to get people through the doors. 324 00:27:25,604.363964 --> 00:27:26,524.363964 It's meant to be fun. 325 00:27:26,824.363964 --> 00:27:30,769.363964 I think over 65s, Weekdays should go free. 326 00:27:31,209.363964 --> 00:27:31,799.363964 I've said it. 327 00:27:32,169.363964 --> 00:27:41,489.363964 You've got people, and I mean this in the nicest possible, I know you two are way younger than that, but you've got people going to sit in garden centers for a cup of tea on a Wednesday because they've got nothing to do. 328 00:27:41,669.362964 --> 00:27:42,899.363964 Get them on a race track. 329 00:27:43,449.363964 --> 00:27:44,419.363964 It's so much more fun. 330 00:27:44,589.362964 --> 00:27:49,649.363964 They, if they're getting free, they're obliged to spend 20 quid on tea and sandwiches. 331 00:27:50,149.363964 --> 00:27:56,159.363964 Just get them in there and you know, they will spend money if it's a nice experience and it's good value. 332 00:27:56,239.363964 --> 00:28:01,879.363964 So I think it's critical that the racing experience improves for consumers. 333 00:28:02,119.363964 --> 00:28:09,9.363964 In America, they will bend over backwards to get you to a football match or get you to a baseball match. 334 00:28:09,9.363964 --> 00:28:13,939.362964 They will lay on entertainment and pop stars and everything, uh, just to get you there. 335 00:28:13,959.363964 --> 00:28:15,409.362964 And because they believe in it. 336 00:28:15,569.363964 --> 00:28:19,159.363964 And I think we need to have a bit more confidence in it and make the whole experience better. 337 00:28:19,259.363964 --> 00:28:26,969.363964 So there's a three long answers, but, reinforce the narrative of the classic season in flat racing. 338 00:28:27,649.363964 --> 00:28:35,459.363964 Take the emphasis off Cheltenham for jumps and improve the racing experience for customers when they're on racetracks. 339 00:28:35,519.362964 --> 00:28:36,699.363964 Let's get people racing again. 340 00:28:36,969.363964 --> 00:28:38,179.301464 That's my Fantastic. 341 00:28:38,219.301464 --> 00:28:41,949.301464 And you get a prize for not mentioning prize money, which most of our guests do. 342 00:28:41,949.301464 --> 00:28:43,389.301464 So it's nice to have three different. 343 00:28:43,519.301464 --> 00:28:44,779.301464 No, no, it's nice to have three different. 344 00:28:44,779.401464 --> 00:28:44,834.201464 Yeah. 345 00:28:45,94.301464 --> 00:28:46,24.251464 Three different aspects. 346 00:28:46,24.251464 --> 00:28:48,214.302464 No, no, I won't get you on that now, but, but thank you. 347 00:28:48,499.363964 --> 00:28:49,559.363964 No, no, no, no, no. 348 00:28:49,559.364964 --> 00:28:50,959.364964 I I totally agree on prize money. 349 00:28:50,959.364964 --> 00:28:58,859.364964 It goes that same, but frankly, as if you're owning, you're not in it for the prize money, but it needs improving. 350 00:28:59,654.302464 --> 00:29:05,927.6357973 Well, when I was at the NICLAC podcast at Newsells, uh, you didn't speak very long, but what you did say was very entertaining. 351 00:29:05,947.6347973 --> 00:29:08,817.6357973 I said to Phil, we need to get you on and you'd be entertaining. 352 00:29:09,7.6357973 --> 00:29:11,667.6357973 You have been, and thank you so much. 353 00:29:12,417.6982973 --> 00:29:19,27.6982973 No worries, it's been a pleasure chatting and, um, I can't recall if either of you spoke at any point but, uh, I enjoyed talking myself. 354 00:29:20,27.6982973 --> 00:29:24,147.6982973 Well, Phil, Will was our first guest from the bookmaking industry. 355 00:29:24,647.6982973 --> 00:29:29,77.6982973 And could we have found anybody better? Gosh, I mean, he's so entertaining. 356 00:29:29,527.6982973 --> 00:29:30,707.6982973 I think he should be running the BHA. 357 00:29:30,707.6982973 --> 00:29:33,247.6982973 What do you think? Uh, it's a possibility. 358 00:29:33,277.6982973 --> 00:29:34,107.6982973 It's a possibility. 359 00:29:34,107.6982973 --> 00:29:51,717.7007973 I I'm looking forward to editing the interview down because what listeners won't know by the time this goes out, but we were chatting for about 35 minutes So it probably needs to come down a little bit shorter otherwise, we're gonna end up having a very long episode, but I wanted to finish off by encouraging our listeners to get involved in shared ownership. 360 00:29:52,177.7007973 --> 00:29:58,297.7007973 of course, Simon and I'd be only too pleased to chat to you if either of us has horses that are of interest to you. 361 00:29:58,297.7007973 --> 00:30:01,747.6997973 But if not, there's just so many different options out there. 362 00:30:02,47.7007973 --> 00:30:04,567.7007973 We'll be very happy to point you in the right direction. 363 00:30:04,697.6997973 --> 00:30:08,997.6997973 contact details for both of us are in the show notes on whatever platform. 364 00:30:09,497.6997973 --> 00:30:10,857.6997973 you downloaded the podcast from. 365 00:30:10,917.6997973 --> 00:30:17,247.6997973 maybe whilst you're there, please do consider clicking the subscribe or the follow button to get new episodes when they're released. 366 00:30:17,287.6997973 --> 00:30:23,447.6997973 And if you have enjoyed Inside The Rails, please tell people about it so that we can grow our listener base. 367 00:30:24,447.6997973 --> 00:30:35,627.7007973 Well, that just leaves me to thank co host and new producer, Phil Boyle from BG Racing, our very special guest, Will Woodhams, CEO of Fitstairs Bookmakers, and of course, Phil Woodhams. 368 00:30:35,822.7007973 --> 00:30:36,632.7007973 You the listeners. 369 00:30:37,642.7007973 --> 00:30:44,862.7007973 Royal Ascot may have lacked the usual number of runners from abroad, but it was a fantastic meeting as ever with some wonderful stories. 370 00:30:45,452.7007973 --> 00:31:07,872.7007973 The Aidan O'Brien juggernaut continued relentlessly, but what odds would you get on Ryan Moore overtaking Lester Pickett at the Royal meeting before he retires? And is there any truth that Phil Boyle is starting a new career as a professional tipster? This is Simon Double from Solaria Racing saying Thank you for listening to Inside the Rails and until next time, goodbye.
Hello, my name is Simon Double and welcome to Inside the Rails, a monthly podcast for horse racing enthusiasts everywhere.
And as ever, I'm joined by my co host Phil Boyle from BG Racing. 3 00:00:13,329.999 --> 00:00:16,390 Hi Phil, how are you doing? hi Simon, doing very well, thank you.
Making the most of the arrival of summer, enjoyed Royal Ascot last week and then had three rounds of golf in three days at the weekend.
(00:24):
Okay, so how you get on with the golf? Was it competitive? And if so, surely by the law of averages, you must have won at least one round.
You would think so, wouldn't you? yeah, Friday was a game.
Uh, Saturday I finished second after playing well for 15 holes and then completely falling to pieces.
.999Uh, and Sunday I did finish best of the group of four of us by one shot. 9 00:00:47,484.999 --> 00:00:49,115 So I guess I did win one.
(00:49):
Excellent.
Excellent.
Now, before we get on to reviewing Royal Ascot, I have a question for you.
Are you or your wife Sarah gardeners? Wow.
you've stumbled on a rather touchy subject there.
Uh, if you could see our garden, you would know that we are not gardeners.
.114790505Sarah is actually very eco friendly and she heard about, a campaign called No Mo May as a way of encouraging, nature into the garden. 17 00:01:15,118.114790505 --> 00:01:17,628.114790505 and we might have taken it too far because we did. 18 00:01:18,123.114790505 --> 00:01:30,33.113790505 Nomo June, July, August, et cetera, et cetera, things are so bad out there that we need somebody with an industrial strimmer to see if he can find the garden table that I think is still under there somewhere. 19 00:01:30,723.113790505 --> 00:01:31,323.113790505 Right. 20 00:01:31,333.112790505 --> 00:01:37,23.113790505 So I'm not sure about the next question because I need to know what's the best tomato feed for homegrown tomatoes. 21 00:01:37,43.113790505 --> 00:01:44,878.1137905 Any Yeah, I'm totally unable to help except to say that they may have some suitable fertilizer at your local racing stables. 22 00:01:46,863.1137905 --> 00:01:47,443.1132905 Good point. 23 00:01:47,443.1132905 --> 00:01:47,923.1127905 Very good. 24 00:01:47,963.1137905 --> 00:01:48,393.1127905 Very good. 25 00:01:48,703.1137905 --> 00:01:48,993.1137905 Right. 26 00:01:49,3.1137905 --> 00:01:50,743.1127905 That's gardeners question time out of the way. 27 00:01:51,348.1137905 --> 00:01:59,168.1137905 Now, you and I have been fortunate enough to have had some fabulous guests on during the last three and a half years, but we've yet to have someone on from the bookmaking industry. 28 00:01:59,608.1137905 --> 00:02:09,328.0127905 Well, at long last, we're putting that right, as we have our special guest, William Woodhams, CEO of Fitzdares bookmakers who date back to 1882. 29 00:02:09,708.1127905 --> 00:02:15,308.1127905 Now William is passionate about horse racing and betting and I reckon he's an odds on shot to be a great value guest. 30 00:02:15,823.1127905 --> 00:02:16,933.1127905 I see what you've done there. 31 00:02:17,43.1127905 --> 00:02:17,363.1127905 Yep. 32 00:02:17,713.1127905 --> 00:02:23,613.1127905 I'm looking forward to talking to William and of course hoping that our listeners will actually get to hear it. 33 00:02:23,873.1127905 --> 00:02:27,233.1127905 the reason for that being after 43 episodes with William. 34 00:02:27,778.1127905 --> 00:02:32,968.1127905 You thanking our producer Callum Ronan from Callum Ronan Creative at the end of each episode. 35 00:02:33,468.1127905 --> 00:02:34,938.1127905 We've reached the end of an era. 36 00:02:35,8.1127905 --> 00:02:40,148.1127905 Callum's always worked for the BBC alongside producing a couple of other podcasts. 37 00:02:40,198.1127905 --> 00:02:46,758.1127905 And unfortunately his work commitments have ramped up, meaning that he's decided to step away from producing inside the Wales Forest. 38 00:02:48,138.1127905 --> 00:02:54,328.1127905 After a crash course in podcast recording, editing and publishing, I will now be producing myself. 39 00:02:54,328.1127905 --> 00:02:59,388.1127905 So, uh, if our listeners are hearing this, then that's probably the first hurdle overcome. 40 00:02:59,918.1127905 --> 00:03:12,8.1127905 And my apologies if we're not quite as polished as we were with Callum at the helm, Well firstly a big thanks to Callum who as you often said to guests pre recording made you and I sound better than we really are. 41 00:03:12,718.1137905 --> 00:03:18,328.2137905 Secondly, Phil thank you for agreeing to take on role of producer and editor which has allowed us to continue the podcast. 42 00:03:18,813.2137905 --> 00:03:26,803.2137905 Right, let's crack on and ask what's been going on with the BG Racing Horses? yeah, both of our horses have run once since the last podcast recording. 43 00:03:26,963.2137905 --> 00:03:30,538.1137905 Strider ran at Brighton on the 3rd of June, I did say last time. 44 00:03:30,538.3137905 --> 00:03:32,458.2137905 That I thought he would go well. 45 00:03:32,508.2137905 --> 00:03:34,968.2137905 he managed to finish third at a decent enough price. 46 00:03:35,408.2137905 --> 00:03:40,128.2137905 So an each way bet would have shown a profit, which was a relief having tipped that on the podcast. 47 00:03:40,578.2127905 --> 00:03:43,728.2127905 Although I must admit I was still slightly disappointed that he didn't win. 48 00:03:43,818.2127905 --> 00:03:48,848.2127905 it was a good opportunity for him, but he's due to run again at Windsor just before this podcast goes out. 49 00:03:48,848.2127905 --> 00:03:50,628.2127905 So hopefully he'll go well there. 50 00:03:51,418.2127905 --> 00:04:04,588.2127905 And Bella Cavalla, how is She Ah, want to pronounce that We were hoping she'd build on her good third place at Uttoxeter and it was a little bit disappointing therefore to see her finish fifth. 51 00:04:04,688.2137905 --> 00:04:08,668.2137905 it would appear however that we were undone by our old bugbear, the ground. 52 00:04:09,168.2137905 --> 00:04:11,968.2137905 Southwell was aiming to produce ground on the soft side of good. 53 00:04:12,628.2137905 --> 00:04:19,268.2137905 Which would have been perfect for us but unfortunately we were hit with rainstorms that were heavier than anticipated the day before racing. 54 00:04:19,658.2137905 --> 00:04:27,758.2127905 It was completely dry down south where I was so I was quite surprised when our jockey came back after the race and said oh it was much too soft for her. 55 00:04:28,268.2137905 --> 00:04:33,478.2137905 It was only after I asked around a couple of locals that I realised that was probably the reason, the rain the day before. 56 00:04:33,478.2137905 --> 00:04:44,318.3137905 So I did check with another couple of jockeys and they all said that they felt the ground was softer than it was being reported as and as such it wouldn't have really suited Bella Cavallo at all. 57 00:04:44,368.3137905 --> 00:04:56,58.3137905 she's still actually quite small and she might handle that kind of going in a year or two but, she'd need to mature a bit more before that and at the moment she really needs a decent surface so, onwards and upwards next time hopefully. 58 00:04:56,848.3137905 --> 00:04:59,538.3137905 that's old inside the rails, chestnut the ground. 59 00:04:59,808.3137905 --> 00:05:04,628.3137905 Well, let's hope she gets to race on ground she likes and that the official going is accurate. 60 00:05:05,223.3127905 --> 00:05:17,353.3137905 Indeed and what about you in the Solario Racing Runners? So sharp distinction ran on the 25th of May and he was drawn in the car park, obviously not literally, but he had a very wide draw in 12. 61 00:05:17,413.3137905 --> 00:05:21,273.3137905 Uh, he ran a cracker and halfway up the running, I really thought he was going to win. 62 00:05:21,473.3137905 --> 00:05:25,263.3137905 but his early exertions to get a good position told, and he finished fourth. 63 00:05:25,313.3137905 --> 00:05:27,173.3137905 Beaten only, one and a quarter lengths. 64 00:05:27,593.3137905 --> 00:05:30,763.3137905 Three weeks later, back to Chester again over course and distance, i. 65 00:05:30,763.3137905 --> 00:05:30,853.3137905 e. 66 00:05:30,853.3137905 --> 00:05:31,783.3137905 nearly two miles. 67 00:05:32,273.3127905 --> 00:05:35,13.3137905 And can you believe it? Again, drawn in the car park. 68 00:05:35,203.3137905 --> 00:05:35,933.3137905 Number 12. 69 00:05:36,393.3137905 --> 00:05:43,633.3137905 What are the odds of that happening? Anyway, we booked Holly Doyle, who'd won on Dancing in the Woods for Sloria Racing back in 2021. 70 00:05:44,293.3137905 --> 00:05:50,703.3137905 However, Phil, the going changed from good at the start of the meeting to soft for our race. 71 00:05:50,923.3137905 --> 00:05:54,253.3137905 And in fact, straight after the race, the going was officially changed to heavy. 72 00:05:54,653.3137905 --> 00:05:57,953.3127905 I've never known ground change so quickly within two and a half hours. 73 00:05:58,493.3127905 --> 00:06:00,523.3137905 The horse pulled hard early on. 74 00:06:00,583.3127905 --> 00:06:02,773.3127905 I think the race was about 21 seconds slow. 75 00:06:03,73.3127905 --> 00:06:04,503.3127905 So that tells its own story. 76 00:06:04,833.3127905 --> 00:06:10,153.3137905 Holly made her move after the first circuit, but two miles on what was effectively heavy ground found him out. 77 00:06:10,383.3137905 --> 00:06:12,173.3137905 But he still ran a great race to finish sixth. 78 00:06:12,553.3137905 --> 00:06:12,993.3137905 Indeed. 79 00:06:13,23.3137905 --> 00:06:18,613.3137905 And you did mention to me, uh, when we spoke earlier in the week that you were brilliantly looked after as owners at Chester. 80 00:06:18,613.3137905 --> 00:06:36,393.3147905 So hopefully that was some compensation, but what about Bo Harther's two runs? So yes, Boehartha ran back at 24th of May over 6 furlongs, and was 5th of 16 in a Class 2 race, stepping up from a Class 5 on his debut at the same track, Pontefract, the previous month. 81 00:06:36,923.3147905 --> 00:06:41,888.2147905 Then he went to Chelmsford on the all weather, and was again 6th, and again over 6 furlongs. 82 00:06:41,888.3147905 --> 00:06:43,848.3147905 But he was beaten just five and three quarter lengths. 83 00:06:43,908.3147905 --> 00:06:51,868.3147905 He's been awarded a handicap mark today of 61, which I'm quite happy with and we'll look to run him over seven furlongs in a nursery. 84 00:06:52,268.3147905 --> 00:06:55,228.3137905 And for listeners benefit, a nursery is a handicap for two year olds. 85 00:06:55,478.3147905 --> 00:06:57,318.3137905 So we'll hopefully have him out during the coming weeks. 86 00:06:57,528.3137905 --> 00:06:58,418.3137905 Sounds exciting. 87 00:06:58,518.3137905 --> 00:07:03,368.2137905 Uh, and is there any update on the other two? Are they both doing okay? Okay. 88 00:07:03,548.3137905 --> 00:07:08,678.3137905 And no, it wasn't to be sadly with Baron Barolo, three year old, who's had his issues. 89 00:07:08,958.3137905 --> 00:07:11,98.3137905 But the good thing is, this is really important. 90 00:07:11,368.3127905 --> 00:07:13,48.3137905 We found a good home for him in the Midlands. 91 00:07:13,638.3137905 --> 00:07:16,588.3137905 He's gone to a lovely home there and he'll be given time. 92 00:07:16,928.3137905 --> 00:07:21,748.3137905 He'll have a new equine life, possibly showing, because he's a really good looking horse, or maybe dressage. 93 00:07:21,998.3137905 --> 00:07:24,808.3137905 Who knows, but thankfully he'll have a productive new life. 94 00:07:25,298.3137905 --> 00:07:34,998.3137905 The two year old Massar Gelding, who's always going to be a late two year old, he's come back from his spring holiday, and he'll be named later this month, and will be prepared for an autumn debut, all being well. 95 00:07:36,538.3137905 --> 00:07:37,618.3137905 Well, good luck to him. 96 00:07:37,618.3137905 --> 00:07:42,378.3137905 And also good luck to Baron Barolo in whatever his future career holds. 97 00:07:42,578.3137905 --> 00:07:43,968.3137905 now away from the race course. 98 00:07:43,968.3137905 --> 00:08:01,308.3137905 I know you were at an event at New Souls Park stud this month So what was the event and how did that come about? Well, Phil, I've been in racing 30 years this August, and my day at New Sells Park Stud was one of my most enjoyable ever, and I didn't see a single horse run. 99 00:08:02,38.3137905 --> 00:08:06,248.3147905 Now, New Sells Park stud comprises some 1, 200 acres. 100 00:08:06,488.3147905 --> 00:08:08,728.3147905 It's the third largest stud in the country. 101 00:08:09,108.3147905 --> 00:08:14,118.3147905 It's a commercial stud, which stands three stallions, including Nathaniel, who I know you'll remember. 102 00:08:14,428.3147905 --> 00:08:17,258.3147905 He won the King George and the Eclipse, both group one races. 103 00:08:17,848.3147905 --> 00:08:20,458.3147905 The event was sponsored by Fitzdares Bookmakers. 104 00:08:20,618.3137905 --> 00:08:27,98.3147905 The tour of the stud, which included stallions, Yearlings and mares with foals lasted an hour and a half. 105 00:08:27,98.3147905 --> 00:08:45,98.3147905 In fact, we had to go around in two big coaches There was champagne and canopies and we were the live audience to nick luck's royal ascot podcast preview the first one he's done It was streamed live, but it also went out the following day The guests were trainers John Gosden, Charlie Fellows, and George Scott, and gosh they were all entertaining. 106 00:08:45,508.3147905 --> 00:08:53,198.3147905 And, a bit of a bonus, there was also a Euros football preview with Alan Brazil, Ozzy Ardiles, Chris Houghton, and Paul Miller. 107 00:08:53,558.3137905 --> 00:09:14,748.3132905 It was a really entertaining afternoon and evening, So coming to Royal Ascot itself, did you go? Not this year, but I watched all the action on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday before catching up on the Friday and Saturday action in the evening after playing golf I really enjoyed the whole week, especially as it turned out to be incredibly profitable from a betting perspective. 108 00:09:15,248.3132905 --> 00:09:21,668.3132905 Well, Mr B, you were on fire with your tipping on the Inside the Rails social media. 109 00:09:21,778.3122905 --> 00:09:22,608.3122905 Yes, indeed. 110 00:09:22,648.3122905 --> 00:09:28,418.3122905 If listeners needed a reason to follow Inside The Veils on Twitter, then that was probably it. 111 00:09:28,908.3122905 --> 00:09:31,608.3122905 only 10 selections in total across the whole week. 112 00:09:32,98.3122905 --> 00:09:36,8.3122905 And amongst those 10, we gave out four winners between us. 113 00:09:36,58.3122905 --> 00:09:37,688.3132905 they were all good prices as well. 114 00:09:37,718.3132905 --> 00:09:40,208.3132905 And we also provided a couple of each way places. 115 00:09:40,488.3132905 --> 00:09:42,598.3132905 we recorded a massive level stakes profit. 116 00:09:43,343.3132905 --> 00:09:50,493.3132905 All freely available on Twitter ahead of Racing Each Day listeners, so if you're not following Inside The Rails on Twitter, you've missed out. 117 00:09:51,658.3132905 --> 00:09:56,68.3132905 Well I wasn't quite in your league but I did manage to tip the winner of the Wokingham on the final day. 118 00:09:56,448.3132905 --> 00:10:03,738.3132905 what were your highlights of the week though Phil? Well, I fear my highlights might be slightly skewed by my betting returns on this occasion. 119 00:10:03,808.3132905 --> 00:10:04,358.3132905 I did think that St. 120 00:10:04,358.3142905 --> 00:10:06,538.3142905 James's Palace Stakes was a great watch. 121 00:10:06,598.3132905 --> 00:10:09,38.3132905 but, the rest of my highlights were all betting driven. 122 00:10:09,138.3132905 --> 00:10:22,168.3132905 I had Varney who won the Queen Mary at 22 to one Running Lion, winning the Duke of Cambridge shareholder in the Norfolk, port Ferry in the Riversdale Soprano in the Sandham and Isle of Dur in the Hardwick. 123 00:10:22,168.3132905 --> 00:10:23,8.3132905 What a week I had. 124 00:10:23,488.3132905 --> 00:10:30,848.4122905 But, on a serious note, it was, it was great to see the Royals seemingly fully engaged with the meeting and some great TV coverage. 125 00:10:30,898.4132905 --> 00:10:36,348.4132905 but, I ought to pass over to you for a hopefully more balanced assessment of the meeting. 126 00:10:36,358.4132905 --> 00:10:42,353.4122905 what would you highlight? Well in terms of betting I had a fairly good day on the Tuesday and the Friday. 127 00:10:42,353.4132905 --> 00:10:45,203.4122905 Wednesday and Thursday weren't too clever and Saturday was mixed. 128 00:10:45,523.4132905 --> 00:10:51,243.4132905 I was actually at ASCA on the Tuesday with my partner and I always think Tuesday is the best day with three group ones. 129 00:10:51,673.4132905 --> 00:10:56,853.4132905 And on Friday, I was there working, giving some tips to clients of my friend, Steve Surridge from Eclipse Sports. 130 00:10:57,513.4132905 --> 00:11:00,703.4132905 And I gave them the first three winners and some places to boot. 131 00:11:01,373.4132905 --> 00:11:06,73.4132905 In terms of highlights, yes, Rosalian lived up to all of trainer Richard Hannan's hype. 132 00:11:06,423.4132905 --> 00:11:11,693.4132905 Kyprios regaining the gold cup for Aidan O'Brien was impressive, given the history of the horse's problems. 133 00:11:11,693.4132905 --> 00:11:16,783.4132905 I think he's gone on record as saying that horse has had more scans and x rays than any other horse he's known. 134 00:11:17,163.4132905 --> 00:11:20,543.4132905 it was great to see trainer Brian Meehan back in the spotlight with two winners. 135 00:11:21,178.4132905 --> 00:11:28,8.4132905 including one ridden by rising star Billy Loughnane who won on 80 to one shot Rashaba in the Coventry Stakes. 136 00:11:28,438.4132905 --> 00:11:41,868.4132905 Now the second and third were 40 to 1 and 50 to 1 shots and if anyone had the trifecta, in other words the first three horses in any order, do you want to have a guess what that paid roughly? Uh, it must have been in the thousands. 137 00:11:42,653.4132905 --> 00:11:46,803.4132905 To a pound over 22, 000 pounds, unbelievable. 138 00:11:47,303.4132905 --> 00:11:49,203.4132905 Yeah, now look going back to Billy Loughnane. 139 00:11:49,623.4132905 --> 00:11:53,163.4132905 he had two winners at the meeting, an incredible feat for one so young. 140 00:11:53,173.4122905 --> 00:11:54,263.41229051 He's just 18. 141 00:11:54,803.4132905 --> 00:11:58,403.41229051 it was nice to see my old friend Maljume come third in the opener, the Queen Anne. 142 00:11:59,143.41329051 --> 00:12:05,13.41329051 And I can't finish giving my highlights without mentioning Aidan O'Brien and Ryan Moore, who had six winners apiece. 143 00:12:05,568.4132905 --> 00:12:09,618.4132905 Aiden O'Brien was the leading trainer at the meeting for the 13th time. 144 00:12:09,618.4132905 --> 00:12:25,858.4132905 Can you believe that? While Ryan Moore surpassed Frankie Dettori to become the second leading jockey at the Royal Meeting ever, he had six winners and his 85 winners to date places him second on the all time list behind Lester Piggott, who rode 116 winners at Royal Ascot during his career. 145 00:12:26,883.41329051 --> 00:12:27,923.4132905 Now, that's Royal Ascot. 146 00:12:27,973.4132905 --> 00:12:39,148.4132905 Is there anything else we ought to mention for our listeners, Phil? Well, away from the racecourse, I suppose we ought to mention the breakdown in levy reform discussions and the impending election. 147 00:12:39,148.4132905 --> 00:12:51,788.4132905 So nearly all our guests highlighting their three things to improve racing, prize money, and the betting levy, the amount that the bookmakers pay back to racing is crucial in providing competitive prize money. 148 00:12:52,288.4122905 --> 00:12:57,998.41329051 Racing obviously wants more, uh, and the bookmakers obviously want to keep a good amount of their profits for their shareholders. 149 00:12:58,488.41329051 --> 00:13:09,13.4132905 other jurisdictions have tote betting where all the profits flow back to racing, but we have to rely on getting a fair return from the bookmakers who provide the betting on racing. 150 00:13:09,13.4132905 --> 00:13:18,323.41329051 So the two sides were asked by the government to try and get together and come up with a proposed revised basis for the levy. 151 00:13:18,943.4132905 --> 00:13:24,333.4132905 those conversations broke down with both sides having sticking points they just wouldn't give way on. 152 00:13:24,793.4132905 --> 00:13:35,643.4122905 And it means given the Political landscape at the moment that, uh, we now have to wait for a new government and then we need to see who that government might side with to see what racing can expect in the future. 153 00:13:36,163.4132905 --> 00:13:41,968.3137905 and also looking at the politics manifestos produced ahead of the election seemed pretty good. 154 00:13:42,558.4137905 --> 00:13:49,238.4137905 Quite silent on that matter of affordability checks that has been being progressed during the current government term. 155 00:13:50,108.4137905 --> 00:13:58,8.4147905 Other than the Lib Dems who seem in favour of very intrusive checks that we've been warning and complaining about for the last couple of years. 156 00:13:58,18.4137905 --> 00:14:05,148.4137905 It's hard to know what any of the political parties getting into power will do and whether they'll be good for racing or not. 157 00:14:06,173.4137905 --> 00:14:14,173.4137905 Well, yes, sadly, Phil, I mean, you and I like to be positive people on this podcast, but yet again, we've got the various parties in racing not agreeing with each other. 158 00:14:14,953.41379051 --> 00:14:20,603.41479051 Prize money is still a massive issue, and that was reflected by less runners from abroad this year at Royal Ascot. 159 00:14:20,933.41479051 --> 00:14:31,573.4147905 So, American trainer Wesley Ward only had four runners and although the French and Irish horses were well represented and did quite well, there were less runners from further afield compared with previous years. 160 00:14:32,543.4147905 --> 00:14:35,83.4147905 As for the election, look, I'm into politics. 161 00:14:35,113.4137905 --> 00:14:36,953.4147905 I studied it at university many moons ago. 162 00:14:37,273.4147905 --> 00:14:40,853.4147905 I can't remember a general election at which I'm going to the polls. 163 00:14:41,83.4147905 --> 00:15:10,299.41579051 Not wanting to vote for any of the parties and that's partly a reflection as to what you've alluded to about what what are they Going to do for racing and affordability checks However, I do think it's important people make the effort to vote So who knows I may go and spoil my ballot paper on a positive note The relationship between racing and bookmakers is important And we have the perfect guest william fitzdares bookmakers and i'm delighted to say he's on the line now Hi, will how are you? Hi, Simon. 164 00:15:10,339.41579051 --> 00:15:11,19.41579051 I'm good, thanks. 165 00:15:11,99.41579051 --> 00:15:14,829.41579051 Welcome to Inside the Rails, and thank you for coming on the podcast. 166 00:15:15,319.41579051 --> 00:15:23,959.41679051 I guessed you were at Royal Ascot, were you there all week? How was it for you personally, and did Fitstairs have a good week? there's too many questions there. 167 00:15:23,989.41679051 --> 00:15:24,859.41679051 it was a good week. 168 00:15:24,939.41679051 --> 00:15:26,519.31679051 I was there Wednesday only. 169 00:15:26,869.41679051 --> 00:15:29,209.41729051 we had a picnic About 400 people came. 170 00:15:29,549.41729051 --> 00:15:36,379.41729051 And I bought two kilos of caviar, some Pringle crisps and a hundred bottles of pink champagne and everyone was very happy. 171 00:15:37,659.41729051 --> 00:15:39,689.46729051 Money wise, I checked this morning, we're about 14. 172 00:15:39,689.46729051 --> 00:15:42,939.41729051 5 percent margin, which is phenomenal for an ascot. 173 00:15:43,929.41729051 --> 00:15:45,249.41729051 So I'm over the moon. 174 00:15:45,419.41729051 --> 00:15:47,879.41729051 You normally get thumped one day. 175 00:15:47,899.41729051 --> 00:15:53,139.41729051 You're normally down the whole six figures easy one day and then you're okay the other days. 176 00:15:53,729.41729051 --> 00:15:59,469.41729051 Um, and what we're seeing is less activity at Ascot and more activity during the day. 177 00:15:59,594.41829051 --> 00:16:03,409.41929051 been CEO of Fitstairs Bookmakers since 2020, I believe. 178 00:16:03,904.41729051 --> 00:16:09,927.75062384 but tell us a little bit about your previous marketing career, I believe in the fashion industry and the luxury goods sector. 179 00:16:09,927.75062384 --> 00:16:25,417.75062384 yeah, I left university messed around a bit in, hospitality and then went to work for LVMH, LVMH was a great place to learn about, cherished brands like Dom Pérignon, Moet Chandon or Louis Vuitton or Christian Dior. 180 00:16:25,837.75062384 --> 00:16:26,927.75062384 These, beautiful brands. 181 00:16:26,927.75062384 --> 00:16:34,847.75012384 And it was a really a masterclass in learning how to protect them and grow them because it was a business that demanded 10 percent year on year organic growth. 182 00:16:35,327.75112384 --> 00:16:38,297.75112384 Then I went off to work in the ladies lingerie department. 183 00:16:38,337.75112384 --> 00:16:41,547.7511238 Not really, but I worked, I was running French Connection Group. 184 00:16:41,707.7511238 --> 00:16:42,947.7511238 And then other marketing roles. 185 00:16:42,947.7511238 --> 00:16:45,871.0844572 But, I fell into Fitstairs about five or six years ago. 186 00:16:46,786.0834572 --> 00:16:49,246.0844572 Well, I know your family is steeped in horse racing. 187 00:16:49,486.0844572 --> 00:17:02,69.5167905 Can you tell the listeners about some of your family members and their relationship with racing? Basically, what's, what's the, Will Woodham story into getting into racing and bookmaking? yeah, my my mother worked in racing media. 188 00:17:02,89.5167905 --> 00:17:03,329.5157905 My uncle was a trainer. 189 00:17:03,359.5157905 --> 00:17:12,292.8486238 He's now in his seventies, history, but it stems, um, from Tom Jennings who trained gladiator, I suppose, 1863, which won the triple crown. 190 00:17:12,292.8486238 --> 00:17:24,362.8491238 So if you go to Longchamp, um, there is a nice bronze statue of gladiator, French owned, but English trained, and he was the first sort of person to create an international kind of organization. 191 00:17:24,362.8491238 --> 00:17:29,322.8461238 I learned a lot about this through giving an interview to a French journalist a few weeks ago yard. 192 00:17:29,392.8471238 --> 00:17:36,52.8471238 He had Willie Jarvis's old yard in Newmarket and he had a yard at Chantilly and he would move the horses between the two. 193 00:17:36,532.8471238 --> 00:17:44,742.8471238 Um, so he was a very successful trainer and my family's been trying recreated his success for what 160 years without much success. 194 00:17:44,972.8471238 --> 00:17:49,622.8461238 Um, but the, the last big name from our family racing was my great uncle, John Rickman. 195 00:17:49,622.8461238 --> 00:17:51,822.8461238 he was the Ed Chamberlain of his day. 196 00:17:52,42.8461238 --> 00:18:06,92.8471238 I'm sure Ed would appreciate that and there's a wonderful story that he was at Newcastle once and the rest of the ITV team couldn't get there because flights had been cancelled and he called the race, did the bit from the betting ring, uh, presented the, trophies um, and did the piece to camera as well. 197 00:18:06,102.8461238 --> 00:18:07,272.8471238 So he did all four jobs. 198 00:18:08,329.5147905 --> 00:18:08,919.5147905 Okay. 199 00:18:09,159.5147905 --> 00:18:18,379.5147905 Now I was fortunate enough to go to Newsells Park Stud at a Royal Ascot preview evening with Nick Luck hosting his podcast from the Manor House at Newsells. 200 00:18:18,789.5147905 --> 00:18:20,549.5147905 Now that was sponsored by Fitstairs. 201 00:18:20,649.5147905 --> 00:18:26,559.5137905 It was one of the best racing experiences I've had in 30 years and yet I didn't see a horse run. 202 00:18:27,319.5137905 --> 00:18:31,759.5147905 Tell us more about the Fitstairs philosophy of concentrating on customer experience. 203 00:18:32,399.5147905 --> 00:18:37,879.5147905 welcome to our world, Simon, I know I love racing like everyone, but I also like the fluff around it. 204 00:18:37,939.5147905 --> 00:18:44,39.5137905 Um, what we try and do is make entertaining events where the food and the booze is phenomenal. 205 00:18:44,89.5147905 --> 00:18:48,609.5147905 but I think the glue that holds racing is that social element, that fun. 206 00:18:48,859.5147905 --> 00:18:50,569.5147905 So we try and do that in everything we do. 207 00:18:51,119.4147905 --> 00:18:52,759.3147905 uh, but I think that event was marvellous. 208 00:18:52,759.4147905 --> 00:18:55,129.3137905 And what really, was really special. 209 00:18:55,439.3147905 --> 00:19:23,479.3142905 was we had George Scott, who went on to win, obviously, and Aska, um, Charlie Fellows had some good runners, and then John Gosden was a real catch, and was on great form, Now, moving to a little bit of controversy, I and many people in racing have got really upset and actually personally angry about the gambling commission forcing bookmakers to impose deposit limits on customers accounts and also asking for personal financial information. 210 00:19:23,899.3142905 --> 00:19:26,639.2142905 What's your take on all of this? one. 211 00:19:26,789.2142905 --> 00:19:35,979.2142905 I'm going to Gibraltar tomorrow, and Andrew Rhodes was supposed to speak at the conference, He's obviously cancelled because of the political betting furo that's happening as we speak. 212 00:19:35,979.2142905 --> 00:19:40,749.2142905 Um, but he's under a lot of pressure, so I have to be slightly cognizant of that. 213 00:19:41,124.2142905 --> 00:19:44,714.2142905 We've been living in fear of the Gambling Commission for some time as bookmakers. 214 00:19:45,204.2142905 --> 00:19:49,784.2142905 We're the only member of the Bedding and Gaming Council that have never received a fine from the Gambling Commission. 215 00:19:49,794.2142905 --> 00:19:53,544.2122905 So I'm not surprised they live in fear because everyone has. 216 00:19:53,764.2132905 --> 00:19:56,894.2127905 we have take a lot of interest in the due diligence of the customers. 217 00:19:56,894.2127905 --> 00:19:59,644.2137905 but it's fair to say it's gone too far. 218 00:20:00,254.2137905 --> 00:20:07,894.2137905 And what blew my mind was a gambling commission report that's been basically mothballed for four years that came out yesterday. 219 00:20:08,349.2137905 --> 00:20:19,709.2137905 And there was an article, I guess the article was in the Racing Post this morning, that 80 percent of the 13, 000 punters that they asked said they didn't want affordability checks. 220 00:20:19,789.2137905 --> 00:20:32,339.2137905 80, well 78%, but the same 78 percent said bookmakers should step in if they're concerned by people's gambling behaviour and if they fear that person has a problem. 221 00:20:32,429.2137905 --> 00:20:38,359.1137905 They're normal people that go, bookmakers should be concerned for the welfare of their punters. 222 00:20:38,359.2137905 --> 00:20:45,509.2137905 But, bookmakers shouldn't be prying into people's bank statements, personal lives, work and information. 223 00:20:45,639.2127905 --> 00:20:49,669.2117905 it's sad that we're already seeing racing suffer. 224 00:20:50,129.2127905 --> 00:20:51,319.2127905 Now, we're not bad people. 225 00:20:51,349.2127905 --> 00:20:52,149.2127905 Well, we are bad people. 226 00:20:52,149.2127905 --> 00:20:52,879.2127905 We're bookmakers. 227 00:20:53,159.2117905 --> 00:21:02,829.2127905 But we're not bad people when you think It is in our interest that racing survives, and does well, and is healthy, and is exciting, and is engaging. 228 00:21:02,919.2127905 --> 00:21:04,19.2127905 That is our interest. 229 00:21:04,489.2127905 --> 00:21:07,229.2127905 but it is, it's a broken model at the moment. 230 00:21:07,949.2127905 --> 00:21:11,989.2127905 you know, the gambling commission's affordability has compounded that issue tenfold. 231 00:21:12,259.2117905 --> 00:21:15,699.2127905 So we already had problems and now we've been heaped on this. 232 00:21:16,59.2117905 --> 00:21:27,789.2127905 And second to this, which is something people forget, a lot of the technology in bookmaking, particularly at the consumer end, so apps and stuff, hasn't really improved in five or six years. 233 00:21:28,309.2127905 --> 00:21:32,119.2127905 because bookmakers invest all of their technology money in compliance tools. 234 00:21:32,839.2127905 --> 00:21:39,929.2117905 So all of the money we're investing in our businesses is to keep the gambling commission happy, not to keep the punters happy. 235 00:21:40,159.2127905 --> 00:21:43,309.2117905 I'll change the subject completely onto something a little bit less contentious. 236 00:21:43,319.2127905 --> 00:21:50,909.2127905 So Simon and I set the podcast up to try and promote syndicates or racehorse ownership in general, syndicates, racing clubs, things like that. 237 00:21:51,489.2127905 --> 00:21:59,74.2127905 Have you got any views on the importance of syndication? And what sort of level of ownership involvement have you had? there's a few things that I think could save racing. 238 00:21:59,514.2127905 --> 00:22:07,484.2127905 One, I think, is if we can encourage people to in, in race bet more, And um, the other thing that will save racing is syndication. 239 00:22:08,114.2127905 --> 00:22:10,164.2127905 It gives you skin in the game. 240 00:22:10,194.2117905 --> 00:22:18,64.0107905 And I'm on a five person syndicate with Ben Pauling I cannot support syndication enough. 241 00:22:18,334.0117905 --> 00:22:21,164.0117905 I just think it is the absolute future of racing. 242 00:22:21,204.0117905 --> 00:22:25,614.0117905 And my mother is a 1, 000th share owner of a horse. 243 00:22:25,944.0127905 --> 00:22:27,844.0127905 She thinks she owns the horse. 244 00:22:28,44.0127905 --> 00:22:29,434.0127905 And that is the beauty of it. 245 00:22:29,534.0127905 --> 00:22:29,854.0127905 Brilliant. 246 00:22:29,894.0127905 --> 00:22:34,4.0127905 Well, delighted to hear you speak so passionately about syndication. 247 00:22:34,964.0137905 --> 00:22:40,664.1137905 What about away from the racetrack? What else do you do, Will? of We sponsor Fulham, but I actually only went once this season. 248 00:22:40,989.1137905 --> 00:22:44,219.1137905 yeah, I go to a bit of sport, but it's a bit of a busman's holiday. 249 00:22:44,419.1137905 --> 00:22:52,999.1137905 my wife's a DJ, so I travel the world when I can to watch her play, which I absolutely love, because I love a dance. 250 00:22:53,119.1137905 --> 00:22:56,619.1137905 I'm terrible, but I love, you know, house music and nightclubs. 251 00:22:57,174.1137905 --> 00:22:58,84.1137905 When you're with a DJ. 252 00:22:58,84.1137905 --> 00:23:00,284.1137905 If you're not with a DJ, they're a miserable experience. 253 00:23:00,364.1137905 --> 00:23:01,594.1137905 um, so I love a bit of that. 254 00:23:01,774.1137905 --> 00:23:02,904.1137905 I've got a three year old. 255 00:23:02,934.1137905 --> 00:23:05,74.1137905 I could spend 28 hours a day with him. 256 00:23:05,74.1137905 --> 00:23:06,664.1137905 He's just very entertaining. 257 00:23:06,784.1137905 --> 00:23:08,374.1127905 He's, that's another thing. 258 00:23:08,494.1137905 --> 00:23:09,254.1137905 You've got me on to another subject. 259 00:23:09,604.1137905 --> 00:23:10,884.1137905 Take your kids racing. 260 00:23:11,424.1137905 --> 00:23:16,314.1137905 Every time we talk to a big punter, How did you get into racing? My grandad took me when I was a kid. 261 00:23:16,964.1137905 --> 00:23:18,24.1137905 Always the same line. 262 00:23:18,84.1137905 --> 00:23:19,394.1137905 My grandad took me when I was a kid. 263 00:23:19,884.1137905 --> 00:23:21,144.1137905 Because his grandad wants to go racing. 264 00:23:21,344.1137905 --> 00:23:24,214.1127905 There's nothing like a grandchild as an excuse to go racing. 265 00:23:24,724.1762905 --> 00:23:25,854.1762905 Take your kids racing. 266 00:23:25,904.1762905 --> 00:23:27,974.1762905 I just, I love spending time with my son. 267 00:23:28,134.1762905 --> 00:23:29,764.1772905 Taking him racing is an absolute joy. 268 00:23:29,814.1772905 --> 00:23:31,684.1772905 I But, um, food is the answer to your question. 269 00:23:31,824.1772905 --> 00:23:34,734.1772905 you know, I love taking clients to nice restaurants, which is why I'm so fat. 270 00:23:35,359.1147905 --> 00:23:37,469.1147905 Not as big as me, I'm glad this isn't on video. 271 00:23:38,269.1147905 --> 00:23:49,859.1772905 And just to give you a bit of a chance for a little bit of advertising, if people want to find out more about Fitstairs or become a member, how do they go about that? Yeah, I, well, it's very kind of you to allow the plug. 272 00:23:49,859.1772905 --> 00:23:51,119.1772905 Well, fitz theirs.com 273 00:23:51,149.1772905 --> 00:23:52,469.1772905 or fitz theirs.ca 274 00:23:52,469.1772905 --> 00:23:53,969.1772905 if they're listening in Ontario. 275 00:23:54,749.1772905 --> 00:23:57,869.1772905 The beauty of Fitstairs is it's um, customer service driven. 276 00:23:58,409.1772905 --> 00:24:03,569.1782905 We, in the room next to me, we have 14 brokers, but you can pick up the phone to us. 277 00:24:04,19.1772905 --> 00:24:06,609.1782905 And you know, have a, you know, have a, have a go. 278 00:24:06,849.1782905 --> 00:24:08,179.1782905 Try and get a better price out of us. 279 00:24:08,259.1782905 --> 00:24:10,239.1782905 yeah, fit says brilliant customer service. 280 00:24:10,359.1782905 --> 00:24:10,989.1782905 Fantastic. 281 00:24:11,9.1782905 --> 00:24:16,289.1782905 The app I'd say our app isn't the best in the market, but on racing, it probably is the best on the market. 282 00:24:16,454.1782905 --> 00:24:25,24.1777905 And then we've recently launched, um, with another company, I think, called the racing app, which is, um, a free version of the racing post app. 283 00:24:25,24.1777905 --> 00:24:40,24.1792905 No offense to the racing post, but obviously racing posts has got some phenomenal features, but if you want to watch racing, um, whether it be live or previous runs in both us, UK racing, the racing app on the app store is amazing, and we're about to launch the desktop of that. 284 00:24:40,424.1792905 --> 00:24:43,554.1792905 And we've got Cornelius writing for Cornelius Slice that writes for it. 285 00:24:43,924.1792905 --> 00:24:44,734.1792905 writes for it. 286 00:24:45,284.1792905 --> 00:24:48,724.1792905 some of Mark Pugatch, the ITV football presenter, writes for it. 287 00:24:49,184.1792905 --> 00:24:54,924.1782905 actually, our best racing writer is Stuart Barnes, the former England rugby player. 288 00:24:55,314.1792905 --> 00:24:57,544.1792905 He's the best writer on racing I've ever read. 289 00:24:57,774.1792905 --> 00:24:58,734.1792905 Uh, and he writes for it. 290 00:24:58,914.1792905 --> 00:25:04,854.1792905 um, Critical to the growth of racing, particularly for syndicate members, is access to the data. 291 00:25:04,864.1792905 --> 00:25:07,204.1792905 The information on their horses and other horses. 292 00:25:07,474.1792905 --> 00:25:14,34.1792905 Everyone wants to watch their horse run um, you should have that at your fingertips at all times and not have to pay for it, in my opinion. 293 00:25:14,44.1782905 --> 00:25:17,734.0792905 Free data is the secret to getting young people engaged in the sport. 294 00:25:18,814.1167905 --> 00:25:20,584.1167905 we've absolutely loved having you on. 295 00:25:20,614.1167905 --> 00:25:25,664.1167905 one question to go and you have touched upon some of these things, but it's a question we'd like to to ask all of our guests. 296 00:25:25,974.1157905 --> 00:25:35,534.1782905 If you could change three things in British racing for the good of British racing, what would they be? the first one would be everything, the second one would be everything, and the third thing would be everything. 297 00:25:35,924.1792905 --> 00:25:36,814.1792905 I'm joking. 298 00:25:37,184.1782905 --> 00:25:41,834.1792905 We have, we have a structure in, particularly the flat season. 299 00:25:42,244.1792905 --> 00:25:47,194.1792905 I think Racing TV once called it the box, the DVD box set of the classics, plus Ascot. 300 00:25:47,859.1792905 --> 00:25:49,19.1792905 is brilliant. 301 00:25:49,99.1792905 --> 00:25:52,569.1792905 You've got a narrative through the season following the three year olds. 302 00:25:52,619.1792905 --> 00:25:55,969.1792905 You're interested in them as a two year old because you want to know how well they're going to do as a three year old. 303 00:25:56,259.1792905 --> 00:26:00,199.1792905 And I think racing needs to double down on these absolute key moments. 304 00:26:00,539.1792905 --> 00:26:05,9.1792905 Guineas, Derby, Oaks, Ledger, Ascot. 305 00:26:05,209.1802905 --> 00:26:07,529.1802905 We really need to make these events shine. 306 00:26:07,789.1802905 --> 00:26:09,134.0802905 and make that narrative shine. 307 00:26:09,544.1802905 --> 00:26:13,754.1802905 understandable to you know, Joe blogs and the racing audience. 308 00:26:14,104.1802905 --> 00:26:20,324.1802905 so that's one, two, we've got to take the heat off Cheltenham in the jumps year. 309 00:26:20,704.1802905 --> 00:26:24,174.1792905 We need better meetings for people to engage in racing. 310 00:26:24,234.1792905 --> 00:26:31,494.1802905 I understand we've got, you know, the Hennessy and I understand we have the King George, but, I've said it a few times now, I think. 311 00:26:32,119.1802905 --> 00:26:36,872.5136238 the DRF, Dublin Racing Festival is phenomenal and it's not a poor man's Cheltenham. 312 00:26:37,345.8469572 --> 00:26:46,835.8469572 we're investing in the Winter Millions, which will be Friday at Windsor, Clarence House on Saturday at Ascot and Sunday at Windsor over the jumps. 313 00:26:46,845.8469572 --> 00:26:49,215.8469572 First time in 20, 30 years they're having jumps at Windsor. 314 00:26:49,670.8469572 --> 00:26:51,910.8469572 That has got to take the heat off Cheltenham. 315 00:26:52,254.363964 --> 00:26:53,144.363964 so that's critical. 316 00:26:53,344.363964 --> 00:27:00,854.363964 And then the third one, which is a bugbear of mine is we've got to up the customer experience on all race tracks. 317 00:27:01,144.363964 --> 00:27:05,484.363964 we need commitment from the race owners that you can get this food for this price. 318 00:27:05,884.363964 --> 00:27:07,414.363964 This is the drinks price. 319 00:27:07,544.363964 --> 00:27:08,504.363964 This is what you pay. 320 00:27:08,694.363964 --> 00:27:13,224.363964 I totally understand if you're in the Royal Enclosure Ascot, you're going to pay a hundred quid for a bottle of champagne. 321 00:27:13,414.363964 --> 00:27:14,534.362964 It goes with the territory. 322 00:27:14,674.362964 --> 00:27:17,324.363964 If you go to the Ivy, you're going to pay a hundred quid for a bottle of champagne. 323 00:27:17,384.362964 --> 00:27:25,414.363964 I get it, but you need great quality food, drink, lose, experience, transport for all racetracks to get people through the doors. 324 00:27:25,604.363964 --> 00:27:26,524.363964 It's meant to be fun. 325 00:27:26,824.363964 --> 00:27:30,769.363964 I think over 65s, Weekdays should go free. 326 00:27:31,209.363964 --> 00:27:31,799.363964 I've said it. 327 00:27:32,169.363964 --> 00:27:41,489.363964 You've got people, and I mean this in the nicest possible, I know you two are way younger than that, but you've got people going to sit in garden centers for a cup of tea on a Wednesday because they've got nothing to do. 328 00:27:41,669.362964 --> 00:27:42,899.363964 Get them on a race track. 329 00:27:43,449.363964 --> 00:27:44,419.363964 It's so much more fun. 330 00:27:44,589.362964 --> 00:27:49,649.363964 They, if they're getting free, they're obliged to spend 20 quid on tea and sandwiches. 331 00:27:50,149.363964 --> 00:27:56,159.363964 Just get them in there and you know, they will spend money if it's a nice experience and it's good value. 332 00:27:56,239.363964 --> 00:28:01,879.363964 So I think it's critical that the racing experience improves for consumers. 333 00:28:02,119.363964 --> 00:28:09,9.363964 In America, they will bend over backwards to get you to a football match or get you to a baseball match. 334 00:28:09,9.363964 --> 00:28:13,939.362964 They will lay on entertainment and pop stars and everything, uh, just to get you there. 335 00:28:13,959.363964 --> 00:28:15,409.362964 And because they believe in it. 336 00:28:15,569.363964 --> 00:28:19,159.363964 And I think we need to have a bit more confidence in it and make the whole experience better. 337 00:28:19,259.363964 --> 00:28:26,969.363964 So there's a three long answers, but, reinforce the narrative of the classic season in flat racing. 338 00:28:27,649.363964 --> 00:28:35,459.363964 Take the emphasis off Cheltenham for jumps and improve the racing experience for customers when they're on racetracks. 339 00:28:35,519.362964 --> 00:28:36,699.363964 Let's get people racing again. 340 00:28:36,969.363964 --> 00:28:38,179.301464 That's my Fantastic. 341 00:28:38,219.301464 --> 00:28:41,949.301464 And you get a prize for not mentioning prize money, which most of our guests do. 342 00:28:41,949.301464 --> 00:28:43,389.301464 So it's nice to have three different. 343 00:28:43,519.301464 --> 00:28:44,779.301464 No, no, it's nice to have three different. 344 00:28:44,779.401464 --> 00:28:44,834.201464 Yeah. 345 00:28:45,94.301464 --> 00:28:46,24.251464 Three different aspects. 346 00:28:46,24.251464 --> 00:28:48,214.302464 No, no, I won't get you on that now, but, but thank you. 347 00:28:48,499.363964 --> 00:28:49,559.363964 No, no, no, no, no. 348 00:28:49,559.364964 --> 00:28:50,959.364964 I I totally agree on prize money. 349 00:28:50,959.364964 --> 00:28:58,859.364964 It goes that same, but frankly, as if you're owning, you're not in it for the prize money, but it needs improving. 350 00:28:59,654.302464 --> 00:29:05,927.6357973 Well, when I was at the NICLAC podcast at Newsells, uh, you didn't speak very long, but what you did say was very entertaining. 351 00:29:05,947.6347973 --> 00:29:08,817.6357973 I said to Phil, we need to get you on and you'd be entertaining. 352 00:29:09,7.6357973 --> 00:29:11,667.6357973 You have been, and thank you so much. 353 00:29:12,417.6982973 --> 00:29:19,27.6982973 No worries, it's been a pleasure chatting and, um, I can't recall if either of you spoke at any point but, uh, I enjoyed talking myself. 354 00:29:20,27.6982973 --> 00:29:24,147.6982973 Well, Phil, Will was our first guest from the bookmaking industry. 355 00:29:24,647.6982973 --> 00:29:29,77.6982973 And could we have found anybody better? Gosh, I mean, he's so entertaining. 356 00:29:29,527.6982973 --> 00:29:30,707.6982973 I think he should be running the BHA. 357 00:29:30,707.6982973 --> 00:29:33,247.6982973 What do you think? Uh, it's a possibility. 358 00:29:33,277.6982973 --> 00:29:34,107.6982973 It's a possibility. 359 00:29:34,107.6982973 --> 00:29:51,717.7007973 I I'm looking forward to editing the interview down because what listeners won't know by the time this goes out, but we were chatting for about 35 minutes So it probably needs to come down a little bit shorter otherwise, we're gonna end up having a very long episode, but I wanted to finish off by encouraging our listeners to get involved in shared ownership. 360 00:29:52,177.7007973 --> 00:29:58,297.7007973 of course, Simon and I'd be only too pleased to chat to you if either of us has horses that are of interest to you. 361 00:29:58,297.7007973 --> 00:30:01,747.6997973 But if not, there's just so many different options out there. 362 00:30:02,47.7007973 --> 00:30:04,567.7007973 We'll be very happy to point you in the right direction. 363 00:30:04,697.6997973 --> 00:30:08,997.6997973 contact details for both of us are in the show notes on whatever platform. 364 00:30:09,497.6997973 --> 00:30:10,857.6997973 you downloaded the podcast from. 365 00:30:10,917.6997973 --> 00:30:17,247.6997973 maybe whilst you're there, please do consider clicking the subscribe or the follow button to get new episodes when they're released. 366 00:30:17,287.6997973 --> 00:30:23,447.6997973 And if you have enjoyed Inside The Rails, please tell people about it so that we can grow our listener base. 367 00:30:24,447.6997973 --> 00:30:35,627.7007973 Well, that just leaves me to thank co host and new producer, Phil Boyle from BG Racing, our very special guest, Will Woodhams, CEO of Fitstairs Bookmakers, and of course, Phil Woodhams. 368 00:30:35,822.7007973 --> 00:30:36,632.7007973 You the listeners. 369 00:30:37,642.7007973 --> 00:30:44,862.7007973 Royal Ascot may have lacked the usual number of runners from abroad, but it was a fantastic meeting as ever with some wonderful stories. 370 00:30:45,452.7007973 --> 00:31:07,872.7007973 The Aidan O'Brien juggernaut continued relentlessly, but what odds would you get on Ryan Moore overtaking Lester Pickett at the Royal meeting before he retires? And is there any truth that Phil Boyle is starting a new career as a professional tipster? This is Simon Double from Solaria Racing saying Thank you for listening to Inside the Rails and until next time, goodbye.
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