Inspire Change SEASON 7-277 Social Media’s Impact on Boys

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (01:18):
You are listening to Inspire Change, the broadcast that strives
to educate, motivate, and empower men to challenge traditions of
masculinity to guide us through the intricacies and intersections of emotions, relationships,
and male identity is renownced psychologists, author and speaker Gunter Swibota.
This is Inspire Change.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Before I begin the actual podcast, I would like to
respectfully acknowledge the gategor people of the or Nation who
are the traditional custodians of the lane on which I work.
I would also like to pay my respects to their
elders past and present. Welcome everybody to another episode of

(02:02):
Inspired Change with Gunta.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
I'm your host. Welcome back everybody to Inspire Change with Gonta.
I'm your host, Gonta Swaboda and the founder of Making
Good Men Great, a whole approach to deconstructing patriarchy for
better self and society. So today I want to be

(02:25):
talking about a very very important and relevant topic, and
that's the impact of social media on our boys and
by extension, our society. Specifically, I want to explore the
rise of the manner sphere. Now I'm not going to
do a history session on it, but I want to

(02:47):
focus on a couple of people, namely Andrew Tape, Jordan Peterson,
and Ben Shapiro. And you might think, well, these guys
are sort of somewhat different, and you're quite right they are,
but they have aspects to them and their rhetoric that
are really a very strong part of what we call

(03:07):
the manisphere. And what I want to do is I
want to look at the whole area, the whole topic
through the lens of my making good men great framework,
and I want to do that to understand what the pitfalls, challenges,
and opportunities are for positive transformation. So when we talk

(03:33):
about the influence of social media and boys, we're really
talking about a medium that has become a primary space
for social learning. Now, back in the day by day,
family members, teachers, or community leaders were the big shapers
of values and identity, and there were differences. I'm not

(03:57):
saying that it was sort of, you know, a McDonald's
approach to living. It was per se different opinions, but
there was a significant difference in how we dealt with
each other around that. One of the problems is that
today a single viral video or commentary on TikTok, YouTube

(04:21):
or Instagram can deeply impact how a teenage boy sees
himself and the world. Now you might think that that's
an exaggeration, but As someone who's worked with teenage boys
for over thirty years, I can tell you it's not.
I saw a significant shift from the introduction of smartphones

(04:47):
and the emergence of social media apps. Now, boys navigating
adolescents have always been in a bit of a vulnerable space.
You can go back and look at books like Lord
of the Flies or watch the movie, So we're not

(05:08):
talking about an entirely new phenomena. Boys have always looked
to explore their identity, you know, grappling with the existential
questions like who am I supposed to be? Or how
do I fit in? You know, especially how do I
compare to other boys? Now social media capitalizes on those questions,

(05:32):
often presenting very very oversimplified, sensationalist answers. Now algorithms reward
extreme takes, whether that's extreme positivity or extreme negativity, and
it's all about attention grouping headlights. Even when you look

(05:55):
at YouTube clips, often the catch to watching the clip
is something that is going to grab someone's attention. So
for boys and men, it's often women who have got
very little honor in some sort of provocative pose. Now,

(06:18):
for young men craving direction, these bold, polarizing voices can
be incredibly compelling. So let's take a look at these
three very influential figures in the manisphere or the male
centric online communities. And believe me, it's not just boys

(06:42):
who get attracted to these guys. We're talking about adults
as well. And as I said, they've got very different styles,
but they all share a white popularity among young men's
and and especially men seeking guidance in some form. As

(07:03):
I said, it's not confined to young men. It's actually
across the board. Now, sometimes you know when I'm sort
of amusing about why that's the case. As a therapist,
I can make the argument that for some of us men,
adult males, we are psychologically emotionally stuck in that adolescent

(07:28):
developmental period. We've not matured out of it. Okay, but
that's the point for another podcast. So let me start
with Andrew Tate. This guy's got a really sketchy history
and together with his brother, have actually been in quite
serious trouble now. Andrew Tate is known for his flamboyant

(07:52):
display of wealth, presenting a hyper competitive mindset, and particularly
traversial takes on women and relationships. His messaging can be
incredibly appealing to boys and young men who feel unseen, powerless,
or craving a sense of status. They seem as someone

(08:16):
who's cracked the code to success and confidence, and he's
sort of online university is extraordinarily good at spinning money.
But the same message often comes from, you know, a
place that's wrapped in aggression, misogyny, and a very narrow,

(08:37):
uneducated vision of masculinity. It's one that upholds dominance over
empathy and power over compassion. It is it comes out
of the same place of sort of you know, the
Darwinian evolutionary idea that's always about the survival of the fittest,

(09:00):
and so you know, draws in that idea of the
alpha male. Now, what about Jordan Peterson. Now here's an
interesting character. Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist from the
Unit from Canada who rose literally to prominence through lectures

(09:23):
that blended ideas on psychology, mythology, and personal responsibility. He's
positioned himself as a voice for disenfranchised young men. You
know his book on twelve Rules, for example, and his
emphasis is on responsibility and structured order that frequently resonates

(09:45):
with those who feel lost. You know, if you haven't
got a plan in life, and then someone hands your
plan and goes follow this, and you'll be Okay, that's very,
very attractive. The problem and I've got no problem with
that bit, you know, being steeped in understanding psychology, mythology,

(10:09):
and taking on personal responsibility or good except when you
place those ideas into a context that is actually problematic,
and his rhetoric, his way of arguing and debating frequently

(10:34):
vis into dismissive views of women's autonomy and of serious
oversimplifications of gender roles, also about social structure. One of
the things that I talk about is that as a psychologist,
as a clinical psychologist, I don't have a lot of
problem with him, but when he veers into this weird

(10:55):
place where he mashes up philosophy, history, literature and cherry
picks out of mythologies, that's when I go, yeah, you've
lost me. You know this is not appropriate. And the
problem is he does it in a way where he
makes himself seem to be the smartest person in the room,

(11:18):
and a lot of people struggle debating with him because
they don't understand the rules of the game that he plays.
So the point that I'm making with this is that, well,
his message of personal responsibility is valuable, it's actually unbalanced
when it frames femininity or social progress as a threat

(11:41):
to feel real masculinity. Okay, it's like we're going back
to the biological essentialness of what it is to be masculine. Now,
the other dude that I think is really interesting, actually,
and when I'm in a more tolerant moment, will actually

(12:04):
sit down and listen to him, mainly because I want
to tease out what he's about and how he argues,
because he is actually very very good at arguing. And
that's Ben Shapiro. Now, Ben Shapiro is a conservative commentator,
and he has this rapid fire debate style that many

(12:28):
young men admire because it appears decisive and logical. Now
let me put logical in inverted commas. The thing that
I find really problematic about a part from the fact
that he actually is not logical, is also not very

(12:50):
deeply versed in philosophical reasoning and historical accounts, is that
he positions himself as a fearless truth teller securing liberal
or progressive ideas, and he does so coming from a
deeply religious spent. I mean, Ben Shapiro is a practicing Jew,

(13:13):
now I'm not sure religiously weary is and by all means,
do not misunderstand me. This is not about being anti Semitic.
I you know, I believe deeply every person has a
right to choose what they believe in, who they believe in,
and how they express and practice that. The only problem

(13:37):
that I've got is when that transgresses the rights and responsibilities,
freedoms and democracies of others. One of the serious pitfalls
with him, though, is that his style often encourages a

(13:59):
kind of adversarial approach to dialogue, owning the other side
rather than seeking an understanding, and for impressionable young audiences
and even adult males, that can normalize confrontation, mockery, and

(14:21):
a deeply binary point of view. It's black and white.
In Ben's case, it's my way or the highway. So
one of the things that's that stands out, you know,
from my assessment of these men, is that apart from
the fact that I, you know, have a serious problem

(14:43):
with anything that's that's that binary, because it's essentially patriarchal
and often leads us into combat rather than cooperation, is
that this whole area of the mamisphere normalizes toxic and
divisive messages that are disguised as ideas, and so any

(15:06):
idea is okay, especially if it's my owdea. So it's
crucial to recognize that many of these messages, often labeled
simply as ideas, are actually harmful and technically speaking, need
to be unmasked. Now. You know, the free speech warriors

(15:28):
are going to get upset here. Believe me, I'm into
free speech, but I'm also into free speech that is respectful,
that is clearly thought through, and that is not combative, derogatory,
or basically a dismissal of the other. And if you

(15:53):
think about certain politicians in today's current environment, there's a
lot a lot of that going on at a political level,
let alone on a one to one basis. So if
I take a look at all of this through the
making Good Men Great framework, then we need to see

(16:19):
the manisphere for what it is now. The making good
mental framework is basically anchored in the following ideas. It's
about self awareness, empathy and connection, accountability, a growth mindset,
and social responsibility. And when we line up the manisphere

(16:46):
narratives next to the MGM ge framework, a few problems
become evident. A lot of it has to do with
the emotional suppression instead of fostering self for wearners, some
of these influences elevate toughness and stoicism above all else.

(17:06):
Boys get the message that if they're struggling emotionally, they're
weak and should either hide it or power through it
in ways that might either be aggressive or abusive. And
that's not necessarily by externalizing it by taking it out
on others, but they often take it out on themselves.
They internalize that aggression or abuse, and the psychological sort

(17:30):
of belief set that comes out of this is that
I'm not good enough and I need to strive for better.
It also brings with it and u's in their mindset
the whole notion of this competitiveness. And it's not being
competitive with yourself, which is what I think is okay,
but it's competitive in the context of beating someone else.

(17:54):
And then the other part to that is escapegoating of women,
especially hoists right wherein it undermines the idea of equality
of respect for one another, and this directly links into
the erosion of democracy. So life in that context is

(18:22):
about having combative social relationships rather than fostering mutual understanding.
So your neighbour becomes your enemy and your house becomes
your you know, castle your your and with a moat
around it. Another aspect of this is that there is
a distinct distrust of vulnerability, and that goes with the

(18:45):
first point about emotional suppression. You know, vulnerability is key
to building honest relationships, whether they be romantic, platonic, or professional.
If you've been told you've got a win at all costs,
you're less likely to reveal any perceived softness, any perceived empathy.

(19:12):
The other part to this is that the menisphere promotes
essentially a lack of real accountability. On the one hand,
they're talking about being accountable, but on the other hand,
they're saying you're not. It's not your fault. And that
comes through that whole process of blaming women, the woke

(19:33):
culture or the society you know for personal setbacks. You
know that, and that sidesteps genuine accountability. It's easier to
point the finger than do you do your own tough
inner work or addressing your own shortcomings, biases or habits.

(19:55):
You know, when it comes to the insults that are
complaining about you know, it's women's fault. They're not getting
any sex. Is well, get off the keyboard or your
smartphone and actually get out there and try to meet
women on an egalitarian terms. You know, it's not that difficult.

(20:16):
Your own fears and anxieties, which more about yourself in
the insult, holds you back. It's not women holding you back,
you know. But if you're going to be a dick,
not only women are going to reject you, but men,
real men will also reject you because you're just being
a dick. Now, radicalization doesn't happen overnight. It's often a

(20:43):
slow drift where young man feeling insecure, isolated, or wounded,
stumbles on a voice that seems to get him, and
he starts following more content, eventually leaving absolutely no room
for altern viewpoints, and when challenged, will get seriously aggressive. Now,

(21:06):
the algorithms that are involved then keep serving him similar videos, tones, memes, whatever,
and so it actually just creates a bigger and bigger
and bigger echo chamber, and soon it feels validated in

(21:26):
seeing the world as a battle ground between real men
and everyone else, and there's no reflection in that process.
So here's the reality. The battle is an illusion. Yes,
young men's struggles are real. There's economic issues, confusion about

(21:48):
their roles, and mental health challenges, and the sense of
a shifting cultural landscape. But that's because boys and young
men are socialized into traditional masculine norms patriarchy that are
extremely toxic. It's not masculinity that's toxic, it's the socialization

(22:13):
into these traditional male roles and norms. But blaming women
or demonizing progressive ideas, and it's not just women, you know,
we're going to blame the you know, the immigrants, We're
going to blame you know, black people, brown people, yellow people,

(22:34):
orange people. Well maybe orange people do need to be blamed,
but that's another story. But all of these things are not,
you know, a way to empowering yourself. Blaming the other
isn't a solution. It's simply a release valve for anger

(22:59):
and fear. So you're exposing what you're trying to hide.
So what's the more constructive route about this? And So
at this point, I'm going to go whether you're a
bloke listening to this or a woman listening to this,
and I'm going to talk to you from a parent's
perspective to a parent. Now, as parents, we are in

(23:24):
a unique position to shape, help and shape socialize our
boys' development and help them to navigate the complexities of
masculinity in today's world. It's essential to create an environment

(23:45):
where they can learn, grow and express themselves and without
a level of authoritarianism. So whether you're the authoritarian dad
or the tiger ma, you need to be very, very
careful because the chances are that your son is going

(24:07):
to react. And one of the ways that boys react
is they withdraw. If they feel helpless and powerless, they withdraw.
So the inoculation to radicalization begins at the very moment
of birth. In many respects, it's, you know, the attachment

(24:32):
relationship that we build with our boys, where they're unconditionally loved,
where they're allowed to explore stuff relatively freely, obviously with
some risk management there, but you know, you get the picture.
So in many respects, what you should be thinking about

(24:56):
in your conversations, and you're going to need to have
very very many conversations, and they start as the child
becomes verbal, or maybe even before. I always thought it
was cute talking to a baby about you know what,
I might be thinking about a particular issue and you know,
someone one said to me, why are you talking to

(25:17):
the baby in that way? They don't understand, and my
comment was, well, one day they will. So the idea
is conversations are based on the idea of growth of evolution.
So part of it is encourage your sons to embrace
continuous learning. And where are they going to get that from. Well,

(25:41):
here's the clanger. They're not going to get it from
social media. Even chat GPT, in my view, can represent
a risk. And you know, I think AI has a
place with some very strong guardrails. Part of that conversation, too,

(26:04):
is that you need to remind them that it's okay
to make mistakes. That we're human and as a parent,
I make mistakes and I will make mistakes in our relationship,
and that being humble about it and adaptable is crucial
to becoming a well rounded human, being a well rounded man,

(26:26):
a man of integrity, honesty. The other part of it
is teaching social responsibility. We need to have conversations about
what it means to be a good person, what it
means to be caring and constructive as a member of
the community, talk about the importance of empathy and kindness

(26:50):
towards others. There's a really nice book that talks about
buckets and have you filled someone's bucket? And have they
filled yours? Things like that, But they start early. They
don't start at the time when the kids seriously emotionally
in trouble. So you also need to identify potential influences. Now,

(27:16):
part of that is engaging with your sons to be
aware of certain narratives that may negatively influence their minds
in the behavior. So when they're suppressing what they're feeling,
when they're getting into that US versus them thing, when
they just trust vulnerability, when they bring home stories about

(27:38):
what either you know, their peers or even male teachers
have been telling them, and sometimes female teachers. We need
to help them to think critically is one of the
things that's dying in the ass. People are no longer
thinking critically. They dial into the internet and whatever pops

(27:59):
up on the feed they take for gospel. So critical
thinking and fact checking is absolutely important. And some stuff,
and I'll put my hand up as well, especially in politics,
seems reasonable until you fact check it and then you go, ah, okay,

(28:22):
they spun that really really well. What is also clearly
important is that boys need solid role models, balanced men,
men that are compassionate, empathic that they're not, you know,
ef when they're successful developed this arrogant stance in society

(28:47):
towards others, and compassion is one of those. You know,
It's really important to show sons that true confidence comes
from being able to listen, to engage respectfully, and express vulnerability,
not beat them over the head with your opinion which

(29:07):
may or may not be right. It's also, in this
world today really important that we encourage a real world community.
Boys need to engage in activities that promote face to
face interaction, not virtual interaction. Being part of sports teams

(29:30):
Now with sport, we've got to be careful that competition
is personalized, that I'm competing with myself, not against the
other person. If they happen to do better than me,
then what that signals is not that I need to
beat the crap out of them, but that I'm actually
not doing as well as I could do, or alternatively,

(29:50):
i am doing as well as I can, and I
need to be respectful of the other person for doing
better than me. The exploration of art and being part
of art clubs. Doesn't matter whether you're good at painting,
sculpting or whatever. Those sorts of activities in terms of
brain health are fundamentally important. And the other is to

(30:13):
have opportunities to volunteer to work with people who are
not as privileged as them. On that note, it brings
me to that whole point of emotional literacy. We need
to equip our sons with tools to understand and process

(30:38):
what they're feeling. You know, the thing that stands out
for me often is how few words boys and men
have to describe their emotions, and in sometimes in the
therapeutic session, we just spend time trying to label what
the person is really feeling, what they're experiencing, and how

(30:59):
they relates back to them. And it's in that context
that sometimes therapy not because they're broken, but because they're
needing to grow is an important avenue. And whether it
is counseling and the right self help resources about how

(31:19):
to manage stress, how to manage well, anger, aggression, frustration,
and most importantly that idea that emerges out of all
this menispheric place that as you are, you are not
good enough. So here's a call to action for all

(31:42):
your parents out there, remember that the influence of social
media and various narratives does not have to lead your
boys down a path of radical, radicalization and negativity. By
fostering open conversations, cultivating emotional intelligence, and championing positive role models,

(32:08):
we can guide our boys toward healthier, more constructive expressions
of masculinity. But your involvement is crucial. Your capacity to generate,
to nurture appropriate attachment is absolutely crucial. So together we

(32:36):
can create an environment that empowers them to thrive. So
if you found this episode valuable, let me invite you
to share it with others, parents, friends, educators, counselors, therapists.

(33:02):
These people might also be concerned about social media's impact
on young men. I've heard professionals, scientists, and people out
of the helping profession legitimize the use of social media
the way that it is. I think that's a big mistake.

(33:26):
But what we're getting is a serious level of concern
about social media. But in many respects, social media in
of itself is insufficient. Social media needs a ripe ground
to take root in. It's a bit like throwing out

(33:50):
a seed into the soil. If the context, if the
stuff is all there to make grow. It'll grow, and
it doesn't matter whether it's good or bad, It'll grow.
So join me next time on Inspired Change with gunte,
where I'm going to take a look at even deeper,

(34:13):
well possibly more confronting issues about masculinity in a rapidly
evolving world. In fact, as I'm talking, I'm thinking about
the fact that I still haven't watched Adolescence. I've watched
the sort of trailers, I've listened to commentaries, I haven't
personally watched it yet because I've been absolutely flat out.

(34:36):
But I might just finish that off and do a
whole podcast or a couple podcasts on how I saw
that program. Right now, I have a completely and totally
open mind. One thing that I do know from having
watched and read some of the critics, I don't think

(34:56):
this is something that should be shown at school, not
without very well trained people. But again, my opinion on
that is suspended at this point in time, and we'll
take that up another time. So until next time, this
is me signing off.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Love to hear from you, and if you're interested, please
check out my.

Speaker 5 (35:22):
Work on www dot Gonta, svoda dot com or www.
Dot Goodman grade dot com.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Thank you for listening to inspire change a broadcast this
right to educate, motivate, and empowerment to challenge traditions of masculinity.
For more information on the making Goodman Great movement, or
for individual or group coaching centerships with Gunter, visit goodmangrad
dot com.

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Inspire Change SEASON 7-277 Social Media’s Impact on Boys

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