Brett and Larry's Podcast Show with Taylor Stockdale #10 (Ep 573)

Interview with Taylor Stockdale, son of Sybil Stockdale, who was the Leader of the organization League of Wives and whose father, Commander James Stockdale, the highest-ranking Naval officer "POW" and was imprisoned for 7 years. The League of Wives Memorial Statue is to be unveiled at Star Park in Coronado on Friday, June 21st at 11am.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
I've been a puppet, a puff, a pirate, a poet, upon
at, a king. I've beenup and down and over and our and
I know one thing each time Ifind myself land flint all my face.
I just picked myself and kid backin the race. That's vibe. Hello

(00:36):
everybody, You're at the Bretton Larrypodcast show in the most beautiful and top
military town in the United States,Coronado, California. And we got a
great show for you tonight, right, Brett, we do. We're very
honored to have somebody that we uhas our friend, but somebody also that
has amazing historical family linage. Yep. So what we're going to talk about

(01:00):
tonight is there's a statue being unveiledon Friday, June twenty first at eleven
am Star Park in Cornadle, andit's this guy here, Taylor Stockdale's mother,
Sybil Stockdale. Yeah, Sorrey excitedvery much. So of course,
my gosh, it's it's unbelievable howit all came together. But my mom

(01:23):
and her and her close colleagues andfriends led a very important movement during the
Vietnam War, the League of Wivesit was called, and they really spoke
for the prisoners of war and howthey were really being treated, and in
many ways they saved their lives andthey've gone back and retraced their steps.
But my mom was the leader ofthe organization and she actually, you know,

(01:47):
ended up going to Paris, goingto the Paris Piece, talks with
doctor Kissinger and President Nixon, andwas a real national spokesperson for the movement.
So it's great to see all theladies being recognized. So let's do
a real short synopsis and bring thepeople have viewers up to date. So
in nineteen sixty five, your fathergets captured as a pow in Vietnam,

(02:07):
right right, I didn't go throughthat quick and tell us all. Sure.
He was flying in a four andhe was leading a squadron and he
got shot down over North Vietnam onSeptember ninth of nineteen sixty five, and
he parachuted down into a small townand it was injured terribly, had a
slightly broken back and a shattered leg. And they was about four hours from

(02:30):
Hanoi, So he spent a coupleof days there in the small village and
then they were able to get himup to Hanoi. This is early early
in the war. So one ofthe first people shot down, and they
finally got him up to Hanoi intoa hospital where they were able to save
his life and save his leg.And after about a month of being in
the hospital, they put him inthe Wallow Prison, which is known as

(02:51):
the Hanoi Hilton in downtown Hanoi.And he was in Hanoi mostly in the
Wallow Prison, but in other prisonsfor about seven and a half years.
The highest ranking eow right, thehighest ranking naval officer, yep. And
so he was I read the bookand stuff, but he was in solitary
confinement in the dark for like whatfour years or four years? Yeah,
unbelievable. Yeah, yeah. Sonow here's the thing. So here's here's

(03:15):
what shocked me when he told methe story many years ago. So,
now imagine the wives are home withthe children. They got to do the
repairs when the water tank goes out, they got to get the kids to
school, they got to do everythingthat's going on in the family without any
husband. So now they are reallyin a pickle. So that's when his
mother started just with a couple ofladies at the house, right, and

(03:38):
ended blossom. Yeah. Yeah,so you were there at the house.
I was young, I mean Iwas I was three years old when my
dad left on the cruise. Andtheir first meeting was in nineteen sixty six,
in October of nineteen sixty six,so very early on. And it
was a group of women that metat my mom's house and are uh and

(03:58):
they and they just were loosely connectedto the you know, trying to actually
start some sort of a league orsome sort of an organization. And over
the course of a couple of yearsthey really got their act together and formed
an organization. Another organization started onthe East coast and it became very prominent,
and my dad, my mom wouldgo to Washington, D C.

(04:18):
Quite often. We'd have babysitters allthe time. And then in nineteen seventy
she became very close with Ross purotRoss Purou was a Texas billionaire who eventually
ran for president. Well he wasconcerned about oh absolutely, and he was
incredibly giving, and he actually wantedmy mom closer to Washington, D C.
To lobby and to visit the WhiteHouse on a regular basis. So

(04:41):
they established an office in Washington,D C. And we moved. We
moved there for one year really toWashington. Yeah, and we were there
and that was probably the darkest timeof the whole event my mom had.
She really struggled. It was avery lonely feeling. I remember my older
brother and I my mom would bein that big house alone, just trying
to figure it out for a longtime. And then finally decided to move

(05:04):
back to Cornado and things turned upfrom there. So I remember another story
you told me really interesting. Idon't know if I told you just want
or not. So they had adining room table in Taylor's house and they
made the pow flag. Wait herewas this like sixty six or sixty somewhere
in there? Okay, they madeit on the dining room table. Okay,
and he still fly that flag today. And guess what he bought the

(05:28):
house and he's got the dining roomtable and refinished it. Well, my
parents bought the bought the house innineteen sixty three and the table came with
it, so it's a part ofthe house. And it was Yeah,
the initial conception of it was thereat the table and then they took it
from there. But kind of aninteresting historical fact, your mother had to
be a pioneer, because I don'tthink there's ever been anybody in history that

(05:51):
had to overcome anything like this ordo what your mom and the group of
ladies did. They were incredibly braveand they you know, they were you're
right. I mean, they wereraising families, they were trying to take
care of all just the regular stuffthat goes on with families, and they
had this huge issue where their husbandswere either missing in action or POW's confirmed

(06:13):
POW's and had to deal with allof that stress and had to juggle everything
most you know, my mom usedto say after the fact, she said,
I looked at it as though Iwas in the business of creating,
you know, happy memories for kids. Like she just looked at it like
she had to do it. Shegot herself through it. She was an
amazing mom. I mean, shewas at every activity, every possible way

(06:35):
she could support as she did.But it took a lot of resilience and
in her strength to do that.She was a strong woman, and she
became a national celebrity. Right,producer, We're going to run the video.
Let's run the video, and let'ssee Taylor's mother Sybil in nineteen seventy
with Hugh Downs and Barbara Walters.Let's see this amazing. On September ninth,

(07:02):
nineteen sixty five, a United StatesNavy plane piloted by Commander James Stockdale
was downed over North Vietnam. Andin the spring of nineteen sixty six,
and now I issued this picture ofCommander Stockdale and described him as a prisoner
of war. He is the highestranking US Naval officer in North Vietnam's hands.
I went to some detail about whatyou know from your husband from these

(07:25):
very few letters, What do youknow about the way he is being treated?
Well? First of all, Iwould like to make uh the point
clear that of the almost fifteen hundredwives who are in my situation, I
am one of the very fortunate few, only about a hundred have ever heard
had any word at all. Andin his first letters, which were written
back in nineteen sixty five and nineteensixty six, and which were much longer

(07:48):
than the present letters, he toldme that he was completely alone alone,
had never seen another American since hehad been there, and told me that
he wigs he tried to occupy hismind, and you feel he's in solitary
confinement. Yes, I feel he'sin solitary confinement and has been the entire
time, because he has never toldme differently, and on several occasions has

(08:09):
said everything is the same with me. Missus doctorale I. Exactly what is
your campaign? You are a privateindividual. What do you feel that you
and the other women, children,men who are involved with prisoners of wars
UH are going to be able todo. We are trying to make the
world aware of the desperate plight ofthe prisoners, and UH have gone to

(08:33):
many sources and many spheres of influenceto try to make all people aware of
their desperate plight, hoping that theawareness will put pressure on both the Hanoi
government and acting our own. Isthat what the purpose is? Yes,
we want to secure the protection ofthe Geneva Convention relative to the treatment of
prisoners of war for the men andnow I signed this convention in nineteen fifty

(08:58):
seven and in effect gave their promiseto the world that in case of any
armed conflict, even if they didn'trecognize it as an armed conflict, that
they would protect any man they tookas prisoners. And they have violated every
basic tenet of this Convention, andwe feel that they cannot be considered a

(09:18):
respectable government in the world community unlessthey honor their word as they gave it
when they signed this convention. Andwe hope by making everyone aware of the
plight of the prisoners to get theprotection of the convention to the men.
Wow, that's really powerful. Well, it's as your favorite person, Barbara

(09:39):
Walters are bratt well, you know, she's an icon herself. I mean,
his mother is iconic. And whata beautiful piece of history. Was
there ever any fear or challenge inyour family's mind? It ever wondered is
my father's still alive? Oh yeah, all the time, and wondering you
get these letters and wondering is thisreally my dad? There's got to be

(10:00):
some type of challenge of fair,right, I think, I mean we
we we knew the letters were frommy dad because it was his handwriting and
it sounded like him and everything else. But you know, the letters would
take a few months to arrive,so by the time you received the letter,
you always wondered it was he stillalive. But they eventually set up
a code between the State Department andmy father through these letters in order to

(10:24):
sho so that my dad, throughcoded letters, could tell uh, the
American government who was alive in theprison camps and not. So my mom
was actually writing coded letters to mydad. My dad was sending coded letters
back and they all they all soundand looked just like authentic letters, but
they were all coded with different youknow, patterns in the letters, et

(10:46):
cetera. So your dad's plane,the repicluded plane, is in front of
North Island, right, Yeah,and his statues in front of the library.
Yeah. Now your mom's going tobe at depart Yeah. So if
you folks want to be a partyhistory, remember June twenty first Friday,
eleven am. All the Coronado peoplewill be there. It'll be very military
patriotic event. So try to come. Yeah, and sold it is.

(11:11):
And I just wanted to say,you know, just a couple of thank
yous for it, because it wasreally a monumental effort to do this statue.
Brad Willis was the original person whogot everything going. I remember zooming
with Brad and my brother back inprobably twenty twenty. My brother and I
thought, you know, he wasa great guy, but we were sort
of not sure that he could reallypull this off because it was going to
have to take probably three or fourhundred thousand dollars to make it happen.

(11:35):
And then this incredible movement in Cornadoled by the chairs really Alexia Palacio's Peters
and Christina Slents really spearheaded this effortalong with twenty or so amazing volunteers,
and they eventually raised about four hundredthousand dollars, hundreds of donors. There

(11:58):
were nine gifts over twenty five thousand, and everything else was was, you
know, small gifts. People justdid whatever they could to help support the
project so that it's a monumental effortand something. And the city of Cornado
was was terrific through the whole thing. So we feel very grateful throughout.
That's really great. Your family's reallyloved and respect it. Well, we
feel very grateful, believe me,and my parents loved Cornado. They felt

(12:20):
like the symbiotic relationship with with Cornadoall the way through. So, so
who coined the phrase? The Leagueof Wives? Who coined it? Oh,
well, that was actually that's important. I'm glad you asked that.
So a book was written about fiveyears ago, four years ago by Heath
Hadridge Lee, and she wrote thebook about the League of Wives. It

(12:43):
was called the it was a longername, but what they called it the
League of Wives as they were asthey were forming the the organization back in
the sixties. And Heath Lee wrotethis incredible book about the League of Wives,
and from there came a lot ofinterest, and eventually this statue didn't
Witherspoon kind of option for a movie. The optioned it for a couple of
years, but it didn't. Itdidn't come to pass. And I'm not

(13:05):
sure what was going on any moviemakers. It's right available and who will
play Taylor? Tom Cruise will playTaylor? Jay Len that's better? Yeah,
there you go. I mean i'veseen yeah, yeah, I don't

(13:26):
see the Let get it interesting.Well, I think I think that I
think here's the thing, you know, we're filmmakers. Yeah, and I
think that that movie needs to bemade. Yeah, I think it's just
the right thing to do. Andyeah, it could be really I think,
very very compelling because these women cameout of Middle America. I mean,
none of them had any uh kindof experience on the national stage,

(13:50):
and they were just thrust into thelimelight suddenly my mom's on a plane to
Paris with Kissinger and Nixon and andthese other high rollers meeting with the Vietnamese
highest ofs shy of ho Chie Minhimself negotiating for for their husbands. I
mean, that's pretty amazing that theseladies from could do that, you know,
could rise up to that. Sowhat I find interesting is that when

(14:11):
Ross Pearl ran for president what yearsninety two, nineteen ninety two, he
picked Taylor's father, Admiral James Stockdale, to beat his vice president candidate.
But the mother was a better speakerthe vice president. She was something.
She was not home when Perrot calledmy dad. If she had been home,

(14:33):
it would have been a different story, a different story. But well,
you know what we hope in thestatue is it's going to be on
Star Park and it's a statue ofthese women. And what I love about
it is they're they're not smiling.They're like they look like warriors, which
is what they were, and they'rethey're like there to do a mission.
And what I hope is, youknow, when kids go to the beach
and they come back and they walkpast that statue, they'll say, well,

(14:56):
you know what's that and they'll hearthe story and then they'll think,
well, maybe I could do thatlife, I could make a difference.
So I think it's all about youknow, paying it forward as well,
and you know, giving people somea source of inspiration with those with those
individuals that were coming in and outyour mother's life and your life. Yeah,
who stands out in your mind thatyou remember It was a historical figure

(15:16):
other than your parents, Uh,you know, probably John Glenn was a
very close friend. You remember JohnGlenn. Yeah. John Glenn used to
visit us here on a avenue andhe had been to Space and you know,
so he automatically was like amazing.Well he would he would give us
what he called space candy, whichwas you know, basically like caramel things,

(15:37):
but to us it was like,you know, magical candy. And
and he was just an incredibly generousperson. He flew with my dad.
They were test pilots together, sohe knew that he knew my dad quite
well and had a real connection tothe family. That's a nice story.
Any thoughts. Do you remember aKissinger or Nixon at all? I do.
I mean doctor Kissinger was a wasa close friend of the family.

(16:00):
For a long long time. Mymom and doctor Kissinger were very close,
and in fact, when they dedicatedus an ice skating arena in Connecticut to
my parents, they at the dedicationceremony, doctor Kissinger showed up unannounced.
Had he lived coincidentally about two milesaway, and so he showed up.

(16:22):
He talked to my brother Sid andme about you know, just general things,
and then he said, well,can I be in the program?
And we said, absolutely, youcan be in the program. So I
went over and we worked it out. So he got up on the podium
and it was wonderful because he talkedabout my dad a little bit, but
he really talked about my mom likethey knew each other much better during those
times when they would go to Parisand everything else, and the bravery she

(16:45):
had, and it was just abeautiful talk that really kind of on the
spot that doctor Kissinger gave about her. What do you remember about Nixon?
Not, I mean not much.We visited the White House a couple of
times. He was very gracious withwith my with my my mom and with
all of the women of the POWsand they really wanted him to be president

(17:07):
because they knew he was going tobe the one to get us out.
It took longer than they would haveliked and everyone would have liked, but
he did get us out, andand then uh, he was he was
gonna he was all set to runfor a second term, and then Watergate
hit. I remember that, andthat's and that's and that's what really crippled
him, as we all know.Any closing comments, No, I think

(17:30):
it's amazing that we're talking about thispart of history and a lot of people
are probably new to it. Yeah, sure, I'm sure a long time
ago. Well no, but thisstory doesn't need to be told. I
think a movie. Oh yeah,I was new to it until I met
Taylor. Yeah, that's a goodstory. Anything you want to say closing,
No, I'm just again, I'mjust enormously grateful to everybody. I

(17:52):
mean, it's just been such agreat rally point. I've always wanted the
story to be told because, youknow, being there and watching my mom
go through this day to day,I always felt like she was an equal
hero to the men. And tohave her story and her colleague stories told
finally by Heath and then all ofthese things has been a real gift.
So that's wonderful. So if youwould like to meet Taylor Stockdale or Brett

(18:15):
Davis or myself, come on Junetwenty first in Cornado at eleven am at
Star Park. It will be agreat event and we can talk and chat
and answer any questions that you have. We're very happy to be here with
Taylor. We love him, andwe really appreciate you being our friend.
And thank you. Thanks to BradWillis too. Oh yeah, thanks you,

(18:37):
Brad. Brad's a good guy.Bye, everyone, we'll see you
soon. Take care,