Ep. 127- Kelly Forbes

This week we start off the episode with a huge announcement and then we lead into the story of Kelly Forbes who was charged with strangling & killing her husband, Michael Forbes. She claimed it was self defense, but after questioning her, it started looking like that wasn't the case.

Email: [e-mail]
Website: ItsAboutDamnCrime.com

Episode Transcript

(00:16):
Hi everyone, Welcome to another episodeof It's About Damn Crime, where two
best friends get together and talk aboutwhat Justine today hmmm, murder or self
defense? There you go. Whenit comes to the end, felt it.
I'm Brittany, I'm Justine, andthis is episode one twenty seven.

(00:42):
WHOA. So a couple of thingsbefore we get started. We have a
big announcement, enormous announcement, ourbiggest announcement to date. Yeah it's not
a happy announcement, no for yourlisteners, no kind of happy for us.
Yeah. Um, so we justwant to give you guys a heads

(01:04):
up that episode one thirty which whatdate will that be, Justine Christmas,
Christmas Day? Yeah, Christmas Day. That will be our last episode of
It's About Down Crime. Oh yeah, it's I'm blindsided right now. Yeah
they were. They're probably like,what the fuck? What is happening?

(01:26):
This isn't like our normal Like oh, we quit in the middle of recording
an episode, Like yeah, no, but like we're really quit. Yeah,
we're really quit. Um we weretalking. We've been talking about this
for a few weeks now, yeah, um, or a couple of weeks.
Actually it's been like months. Yeah, but you know, um our

(01:49):
decision to do it, there's somany reasons, like are scheduling so because
most of you know that me andjust Seen have opposite work schedules, so
the only times that we can recordare on the weekends and transparency with you
guys. We love our weekends,okay, Yeah, we miss having our

(02:13):
weekends back. You know. SometimesI want to go make an impromptu trip
out to California. Yeah I can'tdo it. Yeah, you know.
And also me and just Seeing probablywe're kind of like over talking about murder.
Yeah. I think that's probably thebiggest, the biggest hurdle. Hears

(02:36):
that we've been talking about someone's murderevery week for almost three years, Like
it's a lot. It takes alot out of you. And we're tired
of talking about murder guys. Yeah, So we might probably in a year
or six months, we might comeout with the new podcast. Yeah,
not about murder, not about murder. Yeah, but we'll see. Yeah,

(03:01):
we'll talk you guys posted yea.We need a nice long break,
um. And we've had so muchfun doing this. It's so much fun
and it's been cool getting to knowall of you and making friends. We've
made friends, and I mean friendsthat will have for forever, you know.

(03:23):
Yeah. Um, and just likeI think we got I think that
we got to do some pull shitwith this podcast, right like we did
our first live show and our lastlive show. Yeah, our first and
last. You guys wear our Tshirts and you blow on our whistles,

(03:47):
hopefully not too often because I knowall there for your safety. Yeah,
you send us in your stranger dangerousstories, and it's like it's been such
a cool experience, but it's justtime to I think we've done all we're
gonna do. Yeah, it's aboutdamn crime, you know what I mean.
Yeah, and it's just time.I think it's time to call it.
And you know, you guys aregonna be upset, but you have

(04:08):
a We're giving you a month's notice, okay, get us for one more
month and then and then our lastepisode two, we're gonna make Scott come
and record with us. So yeah, we'll finish it out with the gang.
It'll be a nice Christmas present foryou guys. Yes, it's gonna
be sad that you know it's ourlast episode. Make sure to like plug
our social media so that you guyscan follow us there and then we'll keep

(04:30):
you posted on what the future isgoing to bring, you know. Yeah,
yeah, this journey has been cool, you know, making new friends
and interacting with our listeners. Yeah, but it's like a show, like
you know, when there's a show, it just keeps going and going and
going, and you're like, thisshit should have stopped, like yeah,
seasons ago. Yeah. I thinkthat our our like our hearts haven't really

(04:54):
been into it that much as oflate. Like we're here, we're trying
to show up as often as possible, but like it's, uh, it's
draining, it's raining to do itas much as we do. And then
we thought about, okay, maybeif we just cut down on our episodes,
and then I was like, oh, I really just the idea of
researching murder a week after week stilllike it's it's too much right now.

(05:17):
So um, So there you go. That's the big announcement. There,
it is there, it is sayum and so there's no confusion. The
episodes will still be up. Theyrenot going anywhere. Um. I I
don't think any of you guys knowthat we were with Spreaker there our network,

(05:42):
and they have so graciously agreed tokeep our whole catalog up for you
guys, so they'll be there foreternity for you to listen to you if
you are missing us. Oh howsad? Huh? I know it is
really sad. It just hit melike shit, it's real now. Yeah,
now that we've announced it, likeofficially announced it on the episode.

(06:04):
Yeah crazy, Yeah, weird.Well jump into our case. Want to
let's do it? Okay? Orwait? Are there any other announcements that
you want to make before you getstarted? Uh? Not really, I
don't think so. I'm gonna tryto keep this one sort of short.

(06:26):
I mean we say that every weeknow. But my father is here.
Yeah, um, the famous,the famous Rick. Yeah, I'm gonna
make him record an ad for us, so still hear him one more time?
Okay, all right, are weready? I get started? Yeah,
let's do it, okay. KellyForbes was born in Trinidad and now.

(07:06):
Trinidad is an island near Venezuela.For those of us who did not
know that. I didn't know that. I don't know that. I mean
I've heard of Trinidad, I justdidn't know where it was on a map,
you know. Listen, I've heardof lots of things. I have
no idea where they are on amap. Same So, yeah, she
was born in Trinidad in nineteen seventynine. By nineteen years old, she

(07:27):
had been held at gunpoint and assaulteda few years after that, her boyfriend
knocked her up and left her aloneto be a single mom, and at
age twenty four, she was raped. So Kelly decided that she needed to
get the fuck out of Trinidad,which you know, get it, And
she moved to New York, whereboth of her brothers and I don't believe

(07:48):
her father were living, so she'dstart fresh and give herself and her daughter
better opportunities, which she did do. Shortly after moving to the States,
Kelly became a medical assistant at aBrooklyn hospital and that is where she met
her future husband, barbershop owner MichaelForbes. So he had come in to

(08:11):
do a stress test and Kelly hadhooked him up to his ivs and then
you know, some needle themed flirtingensued. You know, it happens.
It happens, And here's how weenvision this conversation taking place. Okay,

(08:35):
are you gonna are we doing aMichael Kelly? Yeah, you beat Michael,
and I'll be Kelly. Okay,okay, I'm afraid of needles.
Kelly, It's okay, Michael.You won't feel a thing. I'm good
with needles. Oh yeah, baby, you're good. Yeah, I'm good,
Michael. Oh a port. Ihope that conversation didn't take place like

(09:05):
that, because I hope gross.Who knows who knows? Though? Gross?
So after that steamy exchange, Michaelleft his number at the front for
Kelly, you know, at thefront desk. And turns out that Michael
wasn't just a barber. He alsoowns several properties in Brooklyn that he rented,
so he was a landlord if youwill. Um, he made a

(09:28):
lot of money. Guys. Ohmy god. You know what my favorite
thing to do right now is watchapartment tours in New York. Uh huh.
They're so expensive, like and tolike get into an apartment is like
at least ten thousand dollars you haveto put down to get into an apartment

(09:48):
and you yeah, so can youimagine how much this guy's making off of
his Brooklyn properties, his houses?So much money? Yeah, the funk
out of here bank. Um,so, needless to say, Kelly,
would be a damn fool not togo out with this guy, right,
I would. Hey. Oh,but we forgot to mention something, and

(10:09):
that is that Michael was forty eightyears old. Kelly was only twenty seven.
Now, is that weird? No, it's not weird. It's not
ideal, No, but it's notweird. But Kelly was also a mom.
You know, she wasn't a singleparty girl in her twenties. You

(10:30):
know, she had a She hada whole other person to to worry about
and care for. Yeah, Andso she was looking for security for her
and her daughter. And while Kellywas flattered that Michael was interested in her,
she had no intentions of dating him. He was a patient and she
wanted to keep it that way.She was too busy raising her kid anyways.

(10:50):
But Michael was a man that wasnot going to take no for an
answer. You know, he wasnot going to give up. No,
no, no. So he senther flowers several times and cards like he's
very romantic with her. You know, do you think he sent he do
you think he played that m Rick? Rick rolled what is that song called?

(11:11):
Never Gonna keep You up? Neveryeh, shut you down? Never
Gonna turn around and heard you.I was dancing so much right now my
earphone popped out of I saw thatI'm just losing my things over here.
Um yeah, I think so maybethat was his theme song, you know.
Yeah. So finally, in Decemberof two thousand and six, Kelly

(11:33):
finally agreed to go out with him, which I mean, I feel like
you could take it. What atwo ways? Right? Like if you're
being so persistent, you're like sendingme stuff, It's like, am I
flattered? Or am I annoyed byyou? You know? Yeah? But
I guess Kelly was flattered so now, And after a month of dating,
Michael decided he was in love withKelly and proposed to her too fast.

(11:58):
It's just too fast, fast,way too fast, too soon. Um,
And that's what she told him.She's like, it's too soon.
You don't even know me. Whatare you doing? But after he proposed
a second time with a big giantdiamond, Kelly was like, all right,
what's the worst that could happen?Literally, guys like, that's that's

(12:22):
exactly what she said. We heardit with our own years. I'm snapped,
Yes, what's the worst that couldhappen? What's the worst that could
happen, girl, bad thing's gonnahappen, Especially when a guy proposes to
you after one month, within amonth. That's that's like the biggest red
flag in the hole, like literallythe big like the size of a football

(12:43):
filled red flag. Yeah. Youknow what, though, I get it
when you're older, because he's in, he's in. He's forty seven,
right, So I get it.When you're older, you're in that mind
frame like or you're in that stateof mind where there's no time to waste,
like you don't want to waste anymore time, right, Yeah,
you know, because I feel likethat's like when older people meet. Yeah,

(13:07):
they moved pretty fast. They movedpretty fast. Yeah that's true,
and that's true. So maybe tohim it's normal, but because she's young
still, it's not normal to her. See. But that's why like that
big age gap doesn't work. Yeahyeah, yeah, m valid point,
valid point. But I don't havea month though, Yeah, it is

(13:31):
still soon. I guess which Iknow you like someone after him? I
generally I'm like a month in,I'm like, oh, I like you,
You're fun, and then a monthin, one week I'm like,
I hate you. Get away fromme, you know. Yeah, um
okay. So a year later,in two thousand and seven, the two
were married at a big, giant, Caribbean themed wedding. Okay, no

(13:54):
expense was spared, and from theirwedding video, they look totally in love.
They're slow dancing and they're holding eachother and they're smiling and they're happy.
But Michael's mom said that while shewas at the wedding and all the
Caribbean drums were going right, alot of drums and a lot of drum

(14:16):
are going on, that she justkept thinking, like, this reminds me
of like sacrificial music. It's sydramatic, so dramatic, but also like
it's not foreshadowy. It isadow itis foreshadowing. I remember watching them like
to stop. Well, I'm surethe hatred that she feels now is like

(14:43):
she can go back in time andher memories and be like it was sacrificial
music, you know, but that'stime's probably dancing and having a good time.
Two weeks after they're big ass Caribbeanthemed wedding, Michael surprised Kelly with
a big waterfront mansion in Maric NewYork, which is a very fancy neighborhood.

(15:03):
Now, I'm sure you're all thinking, where do we find a Michael
to buy us big diamonds and payfor giant weddings and surprises with the waterfront
mansion. Where do I find aMichael where? I don't know the keyword
there, though, was surprised Kellyokay, and Marek was an hour away

(15:24):
from Brooklyn, where Kelly's daughter wasattending school, where Kelly worked, where
Kelly's brothers lived, and then Kellydidn't have a car, only Michael did,
so she had to completely rely onMichael to get her to and from
Brooklyn, or she had to doan hour train commute. So she kept
saying that Michael had completely isolated herfrom her whole entire life, right,

(15:50):
And I get not wanting to It'slike, Okay, I think if you're
like a if I'm if I havea kid and I'm dating someone that's not
in my school district and we getmarried and we moved like my kids moving
schools, right, Like that's justis what I'm not going to how we're
not going back and forth. Butlike she had already moved her daughter from

(16:12):
Trinidad, like she had already donethis huge cultural adjustment for her, and
then she's comfortable where she is,you know. And I think Kelly was
a good mom, you know,so she didn't want to like and then
it's like already like an adjustment anew man. And then she's moving her
away from her home and her schooland her family. Like I get wanting

(16:34):
to keep her where she was,you know. Yeah. So while the
idea of surprising your new life witha big, beautiful home sounds super romantic,
like where you're going to live asa couple, should one be decided
together? Like that needs to bea joint decision. Yea. So two
weeks after getting married, Kelly packedup her kid and moved back in with

(16:57):
one of her brothers, Lynn,and she would occasionally spend a night with
her new husband, but that onehour commute was it just wasn't going to
work for her, no, Andso of course her and Michael started fighting
because Kelly wasn't spending enough time withhim, which I also get, Yeah,

(17:18):
I understand. One month after gettingmarried, Michael had a heart attack
in the middle of the night,and Kelly wasn't there to help him because
you know, she was in Brooklyn. So he had to call his mother
for help, and then she hadto call nine one one for him.
And when Kelly finally showed up tothe hospital, she didn't stay long because
she had to get back to herlife in Brooklyn. So his family was
like, what the fuck is this? Like why isn't your wife or why

(17:41):
isn't your wife the one here byyour bedside trying to help you out?
You know? Yeah, which Itoo would be upset about, you know
what I mean, Like why doI have to hang out at the hospital?
Where's your wife at? Yeah?I mean if I was, if
I was him, I would bereally upset that might hell yeah there.
And so Michael was like, youknow, he agreed. He was like,

(18:03):
yeah, you're right, like thissome bullshit, I'm leaving her.
No, I'm just kidding. Hedidn't, he didn't do any of that.
Instead, see, this is thepoint in the story where we wish
we could turn turn, like turn, choose a different path, you know
what I mean. So instead hebought Kelly a brand new Mercedes so that

(18:26):
she could commute easier and spend moretime with him at home. But she
didn't. She uh, she wasjust able to now like drive herself back
and forth to Brooklyn more easily,probably just drive herself to Brooklyn and then
just stay there and then drive aroundBrooklyn. Yeah. Yeah, this relationship

(18:51):
was just not meant to be becausewhen Kelly and her daughter would stay um
at the Merrit House, her daughterwas uncomfortable being there, so Kelly would
chuck her in and then sleep withher in her room. And Kelly's daughter
is seven years old, so she'sa little girl, you know. Yeah,
and Michael hated that, so theywould fight about it because she was

(19:12):
his wife and she belonged in hisbed, not sleeping with her daughter.
But it's like, that's my daughter, yeah, you know, like I'm
gonna sleep with her in her bedso that she does feel comfortable, you
know, like, and that wouldn'thave to be for forever. Yeah,
it's like for a while until shegets comfortable. Bruh. And he should

(19:33):
be able to understand that. Butyeah, especially because this marriage happened so
quickly, like you gotta give thekids some time to adjust. Yeah,
and Kelly just was like, fuckyou, she's my kid, I'm gonna
make her feel comfortable. Like,So that was really a big point of
contention for them right like. Theyfought about that a lot, how close

(19:55):
and how much she doated over herdaughter, you know, and not him.
He was not in to that.Needless to say, this was all
coming to a boil and nothing goodwas going to come out of it,
which brings us to just before nineam on November twenty first, two thousand
and seven, when Kelly called nineone one and told the dispatcher that she
needed help because Michael was in breathing, and when police arrived, they found

(20:19):
an unconscious Michael on the floor ofan upstairs room. They administered CPR,
but that didn't help. Michael wasthen transported to the local hospital, but
was pronounced dead an hour later,and when detectives asked Kelly what happened,
she said that Michael had attacked herwith an orange extension cord and she had
to fight back, and somehow,instead of him strangling her, she was

(20:42):
able to strangle him with the extensioncord, all while her seven year old
daughter slept in the next room,soundly, never waking. Now, Kelly
she is five five, She wasone hundred and fifty pounds, Michael six

(21:02):
one, two hundred and fifty pounds, and so detectives were thinking like,
how could that have been physically possible? Well, Kelly said that Michael was
physically abusive with her and how hehad shaken her and hit her head or
hit her in the head previously,but she had never reported the abuse because
Michael would always come back with apologies, which typical behavior of someone who is

(21:26):
abused. Right, yes, you'reabuse, you don't report. And she
said that the night before the attack, Michael was pissed off yet again because
of all the attention Kelly was givingher her daughter, so they started arguing,
but Kelly told Michael to, youknow, let her put her daughter
to sleep first and then they canfinish their conversation. So that's what Kelly

(21:49):
did. You know, She puther little girl to sleep, but then
she ended up falling asleep as well, like with her daughter. Yeah,
Then she said she woke up alittle while later and went back into the
couple's bedroom and Michael was still upwaiting for her, but he was super
pissed and told her that she couldn'tsleep in their room. So Kelly grabbed

(22:10):
a pillow and a blanket and headedto the other room and tried to fall
asleep on a couch that was setup in another room upstairs, but Michael
woke her up and started arguing withher again. Kelly said that she told
Michael that if she was making hislife so miserable that she would just leave,
and then he laughed at her andtold her that she was never going
to leave him. Then the twowent their separate ways for the night until

(22:33):
the morning, when Kelly woke upto Michael trying to strangle her with the
electrical cord. Kelly said that sherolled off the couch and then Michael grabbed
her by the throat and started squeezing. She said that her ear started ringing
and everything went fuzzy, but shegrabbed the other end of the cord and
wrapped around his neck and then sheblocked out. She said. The next

(22:56):
thing she knew, Michael was onthe ground next to her, not breathing.
After Kelly realized that Michael might bedead, she'd call nine one one,
just kidding, guys, No,no, no. She called her
dad, then her brother, andthen a friend of hers named Jeremy Bryant,
and Jeremy was the one who finallytold her that she needed to call
nine on one. Yeah, policethen asked her if she made any noise

(23:17):
during the attack, and she saidno because she didn't want to wake up
her daughter, which on Snapped detectiveswere trying to call bullshit on. But
Justine thinks it's possible. Yeah,I do. I think that if your

(23:37):
little girls asleep in the next roomand this person's trying to kill you,
like, you would not want toYou wouldn't want to make enough noise that
your kid will wake up and comeinto the room, right, Like,
because if they're capable of killing youone percent, they're capable of killing your
kid too, right. But thestruggle that she's describing, I don't know

(24:00):
how. So yeah, it's hard, Okay, even if she didn't make
noise, the struggle that she isdescribing seems very you know, like violent
things are I kind of imagine likethings would be crashing. Yeah, there'd
be a commotion. Yeah, there'dbe commotion, and it would wake up

(24:22):
your daughter. So either way,why didn't your daughter wake up? Yeah?
So anyways, before you all jumpon team Kelly, we have to
tell you guys some other facts.Fun facts, Yes, fun facts.
So Kelly had no bruises on herneck, even though she claimed that Michael
had tried to string of her,first with the chord and then with his
bare hands. The only bruises Kellyhad was a thumb print on her wrist

(24:47):
and another bruise on her arm,which sounds to me like someone trying to
hold her off, you know whatI'm saying, Like if you grab someone
like grab her ar it was likeyour thumbs would be there, you know
what I mean. But Michael hadseveral bruises around his neck, and his

(25:07):
neck had been squeezed so hard thatthe cartilage had broken inside of it.
Plus he was a big bin.How did she escape that whole or deal
with two tiny bruises? Her clothestotally intact, not a rip or tear
incident. She didn't have a bloodyno, she didn't have a black guy.
She had nothing nothing nowhere. Ye. Also the room the attack took

(25:30):
place and was perfectly neat. Yeah, there was nothing, you know,
no lamp's broken or no nothing brokenor nothing out of place, which you
know we just mentioned earlier. Hadthat struggle actually taken place, it would
have been a mess, like therewas been emotion happening. So nothing was
adding up. And while she claimedself defense. The question was was it

(25:52):
actually self defense? And detectives didn'tthink so, and so Kelly was arrested
on murder charges. Now, ifyou guys are trying of on the fence,
thinking well, maybe Kelly was reallydefending herself, or maybe she was
just tired of Michael and then youknow, killed him, well we need
to circle back to Jeremy Bryant,the third man that Kelly called after she

(26:14):
strangled Michael, the one who finallytold her to call nine one one.
Now, I'm guessing you all couldhave guessed that Jeremy wasn't just a friend,
he was Kelly's leva huh of course. Yeah, And the two had
met on a dating website where heruser name was sexy treny seventy eight.

(26:37):
Yeah, yea, yeah, Soshe was on this dating website while she
was with Michael, and after chattingonline for a few months, Kelly and
Jeremy finally met up in October andthen went to the bone Zone and the
prosecutor asked Jeremy if he had everseen bruises or signs of abuse on Kelly's

(27:00):
body, because of course he'd seenher naked, but he said no,
should also texted him at eight nineteenon November twenty first, two seven seven
to seven what is two seven?November twenty one, two thousand and seven,
after strongling Michael and told Jeremy,no I did it m anyway,

(27:26):
the grand jury did not believe thatthere was enough evidence to charge her with
second degree murder, so she wasnot indicted on those charges and was ultimately
released. But then prosecutors were like, Okay, well we don't have enough
to get you for second degree murder. Let's try first degree manslaughter. You
know, if at first you don'tsucceed, try try again. Famous Eliah

(27:49):
lyrics, right, lest it offand try again. And in August two
thousand and eight, twenty nine yearold Kelly Forbes was convicted for manslaughter and
sent it sent It's to twenty oneyears in prison for strangling Michael Forbes.
Now, she still claims that shewas just protecting herself. She still claims
self defense. Michael's fifteen year olddaughter spoke at Kelly's sentencing trial and said,

(28:18):
why did you do this to myfather? He was my best friend.
One day you will be able tosee your daughter again, but my
father will still be dead and Kellytold the judge he pursued me with flowers,
gifts, and trips. He promisedme and my daughter a better life.
He said he wanted us to settledown and build a family together.
I believed him, your honor.I thought Michael was a changed man while

(28:41):
he courted me. He promised methe world. I encouraged him to stop
smoking and drinking. I encouraged himto eat better and start exercising. I
never asked him for anything. AllI wanted was a safe, stable home
for my daughter. Michael promised togive her one. He tried to isolate
me from my family and friends.He didn't want me to work, and
he didn't want me to spend timewith my daughter. He began to abuse
me emotionally, mentally, and physically. He told me not to go see

(29:03):
my brothers because he had enemies inBrooklyn. I survived by the grace of
God and his mercy. He grabbedme and tried to put the court around
me a second time. I wasafraid from my life and my daughter's life.
And I know in my heart thatI'm alive today because God gave me
the strength to fight Michael Off.I pray for forgiveness. I hope that
in time the Forbes family will understandthat I acted in self self defrance,

(29:25):
self defense. I pray that youshow mercy and understanding when you sentence me.
But then she said that sensence totwenty one years. Yeah, I
think it was what three years shyof the max. Yeah, So discussion
time, discussion time. So onething that they brought up on snapped regarding

(29:49):
the struggle was how was Kelly ableto put the court around Michael's neck?
Right? Well, if you go, remember we mentioned that Michael had a
heart attack a little bit before that, so he was on medications, and
so detectives think that, you know, he was taking his medications, which

(30:14):
makes him kind of like what whatdo they say, like roggy or kind
of not being able to respond quickly. So it was a weak. Yeah,
so that was a theory. Butthen Kelly's defense, we're saying they
were saying that because of his medicationsit could make someone black out and become

(30:38):
violent or something. Kay, Yeah, which I don't think. No,
I'm gonna go with the made himweak and not being able to fight her
off as well as he could haveif he wasn't on that medication, you
know. And me, I'm guessingshe took advantage of the fact that he

(31:00):
was weak and trying to him.Yeah, I feel like I don't want
to It's so hard because like wejust don't know the truth of what was
happening there, Like it was sheabused, like I don't know, she'd
never reported it, you know.I feel like he was trying to isolate

(31:21):
her a little bit, you knowwhat I mean, like moving her so
far away from everything that she knew. And but I think like that night,
I don't think he attacked her.I think that she full on.
Maybe they had had an argument,she got mad, you know what I
mean, Like it just it doesn'tmake sense. And she wouldn't have a
bruise on her body except for theirdefensive bruises, you know what I mean,

(31:41):
like someone trying to hold her off. So yeah, I'm cascing she
was just fed up. Yeah,you know, and maybe she snapped.
And also you had to remember too, is that she was already a victim,
you know what I mean, Shehad already been assaulted, she had
already been raped, and so itmight have been that she reacted more harshly
to something that she should have youknow what I mean? Yeah, I

(32:06):
don't know. I just have aheart to this One's hard for me.
I feel very conflicted about it.Like she should be punished for killing him,
Yes, I think so, right, Like I think that she's she's
deserving of what she got, right, But like I don't think she's like
this horrible monster, Like I thinkthat. I don't know. I don't

(32:27):
know what I think. Even ifhe didn't physically abuse her, he could
have emotionally abused her. Yeah youknow, like you don't know those conversations
that happened behind closed doors. Yeah, so who knows? And I mean
he was getting mad at her forsleeping in the bed with her daughter,
Like yeah, that right, thereis a red flag already. It didn't

(32:49):
matter her for being a good mom. So yeah, maybe she did finally
snap. And yeah, you know, I'm hey, that's why she was
un snapped. There you go.She was on the show called Snapped full
circle Circle. Um. Yeah,I don't know. I have I have
a hard time with her, LikeI I feel compassionate for her, you
know what I mean, Like theydon't feel like, you know, there's
some people that killed her, Like, oh, you're a straight up monster.

(33:09):
Yeah, you need to go awayand you need to stay there like
her. I don't know, Idon't know. And then and then I
see like pictures of him and hejust looks like this big like Teddy Berry.
Yeah, and then it's like myheart hurts for his family, you
know what I mean, Like hedidn't deserve that either. The fact of
the matter is this Maryor should havenever happened. They should have gone in

(33:30):
two different directions. She was waytoo young for him. I feel like,
if you're having to buy someone tobe around you, like they don't
want to be around you. Andagain, this is someone who probably I
don't know, I'm gonna assume wasliving in poverty in Trinidad, you know
what I mean, not poverty,but not well, you know, not
as well as she was living whenshe's Yeah, and like, so now

(33:53):
she's here and she's trying for abetter life, and it's like she's working
and she's taking care of her kid, and then here comes this man flashing
all of these nice things to herand making her a promise. So maybe
where she would have normally been likeyou're too old for me, I'm not
really attracted to you, which Ithink was the real issue. She was
not attracted to him, but he'spromising her all these riches and things that

(34:15):
she's not going to have by herself, you know what I mean. Like
those aren't things she's gonna probably accomplish. Being a medicals instance, they don't
make great money. So coming fromnothing and then seeing like, oh,
I have potential to have all thesethings, like if I just have to
be with this man, you knowwhat I mean. Also, she had
a daughter to take care of,yeah, you know, and I think

(34:37):
I don't know if she would haveagreed to be with him had she been
single and without a child. Yeah, but I think because she also because
she had a child to take careof, she was like, Hey,
this man can give my daughter security, you know, be my daughter security,
and I can give her a betterlife than I had in Trinidad.

(34:59):
Yeah. But why she didn't justdivorce him? Yeah, That's where I'm
like, what the hell happened?I don't know, Yeah, why didn't
you just I mean maybe he didtell her you're never gonna leave me,
and she was like, oh,yeah, bitch, I'm gonna leave you
all right. Okay. I don'tknow who knows, but I mean,

(35:21):
he is dead. I don't thinkthat attack happened the way that she says
it, dad right, Like I'vejust not seeing it. I don't think
the self defense. No, ifshe had had bruises around her neck,
you know what I mean, Likeif there had been like and the fact
that it took her an hour tocall nine one one, yeah, an
hour to call nine one one,Like that's not if again, like I

(35:43):
don't know if people panic or what, but like if this had actually been
self defense, like you need tocall nine one one immediately, Like you're
handling it so wrong. What didyou think you were gonna do? Hide
his body? Try to play itoff as someone else did it. I
think, oh my god. Ithink the detective was saying that it took
her like seventy minutes god to finallycall, like after they added all the

(36:07):
you know, texting and all thisshit up at times yeah seven, you
know, over an hour a littlebit over an hour, and that too
is like ah yeah, And Imean you should have immediately called nine one
one, yeah, like there wasan altercation and I don't know, but
Jeremy had to tell her to callnine one one, yeah, and if

(36:27):
he was like weak because of it'sheart attack, and like why couldn't she
have just ran and grabbed her kidand took off? Yeah, who knows?
Who knows? But yeah, Idon't believe the self defense she's I
believe she just strangled him. Shejust snapped and strangled him. Yeah,
she just went crazy. So Idon't know. I don't think she's um

(36:52):
a villain. Well, she's wellshould killed someone. I don't know,
see what I'm saying. I'm veryconfused about how all right, discussion time
over, discussion time is over?All right, guys. So that was
the story of Michael Forbes, youknow, Kelly Forbes. And we're moving

(37:15):
on to stranger dangers. Stranger danger, stranger danger. This is not a
test. I repeat, this isnot a test. You better run,
all right. So one of you, of our lovely listeners reach out to

(37:39):
me on Instagram and sent me this. Um it's like this thing that this
cop wrote. Um, just likeways to keep yourself safe in and a
in public. You know what I'msaying. So I thought it was very
fitting and I'm gonna road it herereal quick. Kary. Some tips okay,

(37:59):
um, okay, So tip Numberone, The elbow is the strongest
point of your body. If you'reclose enough to use it, use it.
Number two. If a Robert askyou for your wallet and or purse,
do not hand it to him.Toss it away from you. Chances
are that he's more interested in yourwallet and or purse than you, and
he'll go for your wallet purse andthen you have time to run away.

(38:19):
That's a good one. H Okay. If you're ever thrown into the trunk
of a car, kick out thebacktail lights and stick your arm out of
the hole and start weaving around likea crazy person. The driver won't be
able to see you, but everybodyelse will be able to see you.
Okay. If you get into yourcar after shopping or eining and after work
or whatever, don't just sit there. If someone's watching you, it's the

(38:43):
perfect opportunity for them to come getyou from the passenger side of your car,
right, So always lock your doors, yes, immediately, when you
get into your car. That's thepersons you get into your car, lock
the doors and leave. Okay.If someone in your your car. If
there's someone in your car with agun to your head, do not drive
off. Instead, gun the engineand speed into anything that way, you'll

(39:07):
wreck a car. Your airbag willsave you. But if the person in
the back, if they're in theback seat, like they're probably not wearing
a seatbat they'll probably you know,get thrown through the window. Okay.
Here's some notes about getting into yourcar in a parking lot or parking garage.
Okay, so if you're in aparking lot or garage, be aware,
look around you, look into yourcar on the passenger side floor,

(39:28):
in the back seat. Just surveythe insides of your car before you get
in. Okay. If you're parknext to a big van, enter your
car from the passenger door. ButMrs. Most serial killers attack their victims
by pulling them into their vans whilewomen are attempting to get into their cars.
Look at the car parked on thedriver's side of your car, okay,

(39:49):
and then check out the passenger onthe side. If a mail is
sitting alone in the seat nearest yourcar, you may want to walk back
into the mall orwork and get aguard policeman to walk you back out.
I don't think that's I think,more than anything else, like someone inside
will be willing to walk into yourcar. Yeah, always take the elevator
instead of the stairwell, because stairwellsare not safe. Okay, a lot

(40:15):
of times they don't have cameras,they're dark, they're isolated, like and
he likes taking the stairs. Imean some people like to be healthy and
run the stairs. No, okay, here's another one. If a predator
has a gun and you are notunder his control, always run. The
predator will only hit you four anda hundred times. That's pretty good odds

(40:40):
for you. And even if theydo hit you with a bullet, it's
most likely it will not be avital organ because they're odds of hidden.
You are not very good in thefirst place. Also, they say run
in an exact pattern. Yeah,always run in is exact pattern. Yes,
here's a good one for stranger danger, as in, we are always

(41:00):
trying to be sympathetic. What dowe say here? Don't do that,
Just don't do it. Don't feelsorry for anyone, just keep going.
Oh, here's the good one.So this says. Someone just told me
that her friend heard a crying babyon her porch the night before last and
she called the police because it waslate and she thought it was weird.

(41:21):
I don't know how true this is. The police told her, whatever you
do, do not open the door. The lady then said that it sounded
like the baby had crawled near tothe window, and she was worried they
would crawl to the street and getran over. The policeman said, we
have already, we already have aunit on the way. Whatever you do,
you do not open the door.He told her that they think a
serial killer has a baby's cry recordedand is using it to coax women out
of their homes, thinking that someonedropped off a baby. He said they

(41:43):
have not verified it, but theyhave had several calls by women saying that
they hear babies cries outside their doorswhen they're home alone at night. Is
it an urban legend maybe? Isit true? I don't know who knows
that says it was on America's MostWanted. Is America's Most One still on?
I don't know. I don't havetreble anyways, So I thought those

(42:06):
were some helpful tips and trips,tips and tricks, not trips, but
tricks. What tips and tricks?There was also a story that I heard,
and I don't know if it's alsolike an urban legend or just a
made up story. M But there'salso a story that I heard of of
someone opening up the fawcet outside ofsomeone's house to get them to come out.

(42:31):
Dude, why did that happen theother day to you? I was
asleep and I heard I heard likelike water pouring right and I was like.
I woke up and I was like, wait a minute. It sounded
like a shower was on and Iwas like, what is that? And
um I got up and I waslike, okay. I thought maybe like

(42:52):
a sprinkler had busted or something inthe front yard. And I was like,
okay, I'm not gonna go inthe front yard. I'm gonna go
to the back yard. I'm gonnago to the because our gates are really
high and they have like pointy thingsat the top of them. I was
like, I'll go to the backand I'll check through the side gate if
I can see, like if there'sanything pouring or whatever. So I came,
I went out there, went outwith my flashlight and I could there
was like water on the neighbor's driveway, but I was like, I didn't

(43:14):
the sprinklers weren't on. So Iwas like, I don't know what the
hell, So I came back inside. But when I came back inside,
it wasn't making that sound anymore.What the fuck? Don't don't go out
there ever again when you hear that, Well, I went into the backyard.
It was safe back there and onecould get me there. Yeah.
True anyways, but thank you forthe tips and tricks, Justine. Yes,

(43:37):
sure, sure, or actually thankyou to the person who send it
in what's on Instagram. Thank you. I'm not gonna shout you out because
maybe you don't want to be no, thank you, We thank you.
You know who you are. Youknow who you are. Okay, um,
all right, first up, wehave a stranger dangerous story from Tori.
And now tori story is an update. Okay, So I went back

(43:59):
to find her original story. So, she had moved a couple of states
over with her boyfriend, and shewas taking walks around her neighborhood to like
get out, get the fresh air. Right, So she ran across an
old man neighbor right, and hehad invited her in for snacks or something.
So he then tried to kiss herneck and her arms and then like

(44:21):
lock her into a hug, whichwas very gross. Okay, that's what
happened last time. Then her boyfriendyelled at him. So that happened to
her almost three years ago exactly.Since then, nothing really has happened other
than him clearly coming out on hisporch to watch me, or just doing
it through his glass storm door.Okay, that's creepy. Don't watch your
neighbors. Yesterday, on my firstwalk of the day, he called out

(44:45):
to me to get my attention.I was having none of it, so
I turned, lifted one hand footaway and said, you were told a
few years ago to never talk tome again. And then I kept walking.
I went on my second walk ofthe day. I already told you.
I went on my second walk ofthe day and he called out to

(45:06):
me again. I'm still feeling prettyempowered for sticking up for myself the first
time, so I take the bait. He says, don't walk by my
house anymore. I'll call the copson you for trespassing. You're a troublemaker,
bitch. I'm on the sidewalk.Shut up right. Interesting to also
know the only trouble I might havecaused was wearing a crop talk past his
house and him being too into it. I have an hourglass figure and rock

(45:29):
the hell out of a crop top. Get a girl, get it,
And as we all know, hisboner is not my problem. We also
have no sidewalks. I walk veryclearly in the published street. Okay,
there it is. I informed himthis is a public road. I can
walk where I want and pleased,do you? Then I can tell them
what you did. I continue onmy way. He responds with, oh,

(45:51):
you want to criticize me. Hedid not get any further chance to
respond, as I was past hisyard and pretending. I had my music
on in my headphones. I oftenturn it off when I go buy his
house so I can listen for hisdoor to open. That's smart, stay
alert. I was thoroughly pissed offby all of this and decided that today
I would still be taking my walkas normal with an air horn my dad

(46:14):
bought me specifically for this purpose acouple of weeks ago. Because fuck him,
I was not as brave today,but I did it. He tried
to get my attention by doing thewhole I couldn't handle a confrontation with him
again and kept walking. I'm probablydoing yog inside, just kidding. I'm
making a boards again. I'm probablydoing yoga instead of walk to today because

(46:37):
I just can't. He hasn't madeany threats beyond calling the police, so
I'm pretty sure it's all show totry to feel powerful. But we all
know how dangerous that can turn out. One of my friends that lives nearby
and plans to come over for workhangouts is a very large bear of a
man, and I'm probably going toask him to go on at least one
of my walks with me and bea large bear of a man. I'm
friends with a lot of Larber's andI am a Larber. Awesome. That's

(47:00):
Cortney Britney wishes she knows a Larbertwo. I could be a Larber if
I want to be a Larber?Okay, do you have enough dedication in
you now? I don't. I'mtoo lazy, That's what I thought.
So I also have at my disposalany number of potentially intimidating friends with swords.
Not the actual answer, but afun one to imagine. Thanks for
being a platform where we convent aboutthis stuff, Tory. Thanks Tory for

(47:22):
your story. Oh man, thisguy sounds like just a fucking like a
nightmare man someone who said, punchhim in the face a nightmare annoying And
we don't promote violence on this podcast, but like Justine said, it's so
much a punch on. Um,yeah, that's crazy. You know what

(47:44):
I think about too. It's like, especially with like old people. I'm
done with an old pervert work.Like you're an old man and you're like,
what were you like when you wereyounger? Like what went wrong in
your life? You know what I'msaying. Yeah, do no one ever
like you? Do no one everlike you? So you had to just

(48:04):
become a fucking weirdo. Probably,I don't get it. There's so many
old men perverts out there. Yeah, so gross. I felt bad for
the women that they encountered when theywere younger. Yeah, like what happened
because it was the times were differentback then, you know, true,

(48:25):
so the women didn't say anything,or you know, most women didn't say
anything, just like dealt with it, you know. Crazy. Now times
have changed, time is up,The time has changed. Yeah. Um
yeah, just be careful girl.Yeah, and that's good that you take

(48:46):
out your headphones when you walk pasthis house. Yeah, smart, yeah,
smart, And do take your bigfriend your big bear friend with you.
Yeah, make him give him dirtylooks. Oh yeah, what bitch?
You could also say that too.Well. Bak you Tor for your

(49:06):
thank you to for your update onthis piece of shit guy, and be
careful. All right, all right? Who else did we get next?
We have a story from well,I think a couple of stories from Jamie.
Hey, Jamie, All right,Jamie says, this is my stranger

(49:29):
dangerous story. There's a couple andthey're all pretty short, but they all
scarred me for life. When Iwas eighteen, I agreed to go spend
the night with a friend on NewYear's Eve so we could stay up until
midnight. We ended up going toher boyfriend's house, who lived there with
his brother and mom. There werea lot of people there, so I
felt pretty comfortable, even though wewere going to stay the night out in

(49:50):
the booney's middle of nowhere. Theolder brother kept trying to flirt and keep
my attention all night, even thoughI was not interested at all. After
midnight, when I was or whenit was time for I was going to
sleep in the room with my friendand her boyfriend while the brother slept in
a different room. I was sleepingpeacefully when when I woke up with someone
rubbing and touching all over my legsand lower body. When I came to

(50:15):
and realized what was going on,I realized the brother was sexually assaulting me.
I immediately freaked out and started screamingand yelling for him to get off
and leave me alone. He leftthe room and I could not go back
to sleep. I had to wakeup to go to work early the next
morning, and the mom of theboys and my friend drove me home,

(50:35):
and when I explained what happened duringthe night, the mom had the audacity
to blame me and tell me Ihad been playing cat and mouse all night
with her son. I was somad, and I told her that I
did not, and even if Idid, that did not give him the
right to touch me in my sleep. I was so mad that I never
spoke to my friend again after thatand never stayed at anyone's house ever again.

(51:01):
Oh my god, Um, that'scrazy. That's you're playing cat and
mouse. That pisces me off.That mom blamed her, like, are
you fucking kidding me? Wow?This is the This is the type of
parent that raises the sun. Umtoo, I feel like to be like

(51:23):
that, like, it's okay,this is the problem. You're blaming.
You're blaming the victim. Yeah,piece of shit's son. Get out of
here, and you're knocking. Ibet you she didn't reprimand her son.
No, she shouldn't say anything.She's probably like, oh my god,
you know what she said. Well, guess what. He probably did it
to someone else too after that.Yeah, congratulations, lady, your son's

(51:45):
a predator. Where you go?Okay, Jamie's second story. Okay,
the second stranger danger story I haveis about my boyfriend and I fighting one
day at our apartment. We werethe only ones that lived upstairs, even
though there were two apartments. Whenwe were fighting, I kept seeing a
man that was very much watching us, which didn't seem too abnormal because we

(52:07):
were being pretty loud, But somethingabout the way this man looked at me
weirded me out. The fight wasjust getting a little bit out of hand,
so my boyfriend left and I wentupstairs to the apartment and locked the
door like I always do. Afew minutes later, I hear someone heading
up the stairs, then yelling outside. When I opened the door, I
see the man heading down the stairsand my boyfriend yelling at him. I

(52:30):
was so freaked out because there's noreason why he was coming up the stairs
other than to get me. Thankfully, my boyfriend knows that boyfriends are always
the first suspect, and that wehad been fighting and he probably would have
been blamed. He came back andsaved me. And still to this day,
I can picture that man's face andit creeps me out. How creepy

(52:53):
out here weird men were creepy.That's so I always think about that,
Like, if you're fighting with someoneand then people see it and then something
happens to you, like, ofcourse they're gonna blame that person. Yeah,
Like if we were out fighting inyour driveway and then you died,

(53:13):
like they would blame me. Yeah, but obviously it would have been Scott.
Yeah, it's always the husband.Well, good thing your boyfriend didn't
really leave. Yeah, at leastyou just went to get some fresh air,
you know. Yeah, saw thisguy and chase him away. Yeah,

(53:36):
thank you, thank you Jamie foryour stories. Yes, we appreciate
it. Yeah, all right,I think we got to call it there
because we only have four left.Yeah, and guys, we're not taking
any more Stranger Danger submissions. Yeah, I guess. Wait, well,
I mean if they come in whatever, if you want to squeeze a man

(53:57):
before we go, send him,if you want to go for it,
yeah, we'll see what happens.Yeah, we make no promises. Yeah,
so if you want to send it, you can send it to It's
about Damn Crime at gmail dot com. You can send your audios there as
well. You can also head overto It's about damn Crime dot com.
Click on the Stranger Danger tab,fill out the form submit that baby.

(54:20):
It'll kick to our email. We'llget it and we might just read it.
Yes, we might just in ourlast and what we're starting the countdown
till the end? Okay reviews dowe have reviews? We have one review?
I believe Okay, okay, readyYeah, love these girls and I

(54:40):
guess Scott. This is from AnneShulb. I've been listening to these girls
for quite a while and every episodeis great. These ladies are witty,
carrying in funny. They bring casesthat most people have never heard of.
I have laughed and cried with thesegirls. If you're looking for a great
podcast, you found it. Thankyou very much, Thank you. We
appreciate you. Um, I mean, I guess you don't have to leave

(55:04):
us five star reviews anymore. Thankyou to everyone who did. Yeah,
thank you all to look that.Oh my god, I can't even talk.
Thank you to everyone who did leaveus five stars. Yeah man,
And now for real starts to countdown. I know, the final countdown.
Huh three more, three more togo? I know. Oh weird.

(55:27):
What are we gonna do having alife again. I don't know. Maybe
I'll head over to California so I'mmoving back, how dumb. But you
can just come with me and thenwe can just have like a girls' weekend.
Okay, that'll work, and wecan just stay with your go to
the beach. We're just we couldjust like hang out with each other and

(55:49):
don't have to like talk of ourmurder. I know. All right,
guys, that's it. That's itfrom us. If you would like to
follow us, you can do soon Instagram and space book. It's about
damn crime, run it together,space it out. We are there.
We also have a Facebook group.Um, why why are we doing this?

(56:09):
Why? I don't know? Abad world autopilot? Oh my goodness.
Well, no, we'll still followus if you guys want to,
we'll keep you updated on on onour lives. Yeah yeah, I mean
maybe we're not on our social media. Who knows, who knows what the

(56:30):
future holds. I mean we cangive our maybe you follow us personally,
yeah personally? Yeah. Uh soyou can find me at Justini, j
U S T, I, N, I Eat, Underscore V literally on
every single social media platform there is. Yeah. Mine on Instagram is O

(56:52):
O H dot Brittany br T anyway, yes, that's where you can find
me. And then on Twitter.On the Twitter, I'm just Britney Litz
Latz. Aren't you Brittlets Britney Litzyour whole name? Yeah? I think

(57:12):
I try to do Britlets and Icouldn't do it was taken. Oh okay,
yeah cool, But yeah, thereI am, and there you are,
and there you go, there yougo. Okay, we'll catch you
guys next week with a whole newepisode. Until then, Justine, remember,
yeah, there's a lot of desertout there, which I'm saying to

(57:35):
this podcast in three weeks. Ah, that's that. Ah? Do you
feel like I feel? Are wegonna cry on the last episode? I
don't know. We have to doit together, all of us, and
we have to and we have toall drink alcohol, so that will so

(57:58):
that we will cry at ten o'clockin the fucking morning, tears of joy.
No, we could do it onlike a Saturday night. I'll be
home, oh yeah, to celebratemy return. Oh yeah, yeah,
Okay, I forget your he's backthen, I not trust it's back.

(58:20):
Oh shit, turn up the back. Yeah, it just just seems back
right back. Yeah. All right, guys, we'll catch you next week
with a whole new other, thewhole other episode, the fucking best.
We gotta go, all right,we gotta go. Love you, bye bye,