Garrison Interviews Jack Martin Pt. 2

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Man Rick third, No, I'm sorry, you can tell.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
You about Oh he is here five two three five
o three.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Three Oh no ah as well?

Speaker 2 (00:12):
But oh is this missus Donald or I'm terribly sorry
about you, missus Starley. Uh what'd you have Rick? Call me? Yes? Uh,
it's as Jack Martin, Ah right nine four three sixth
nine four.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Nine, Oh my god, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Miss tell him it's gravely important. I just want a
second of his time, and I'm sure he.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Would be glad.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I think that I talk with him now about you
might be uh tecking you an old forty five minutes.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Would you tell him to call me right away? Please,
ma'am It'll take about two minutes, and uh, I'm sure
he'll be pleased to hear anything.

Speaker 5 (00:46):
Oh you know, thank you.

Speaker 6 (00:48):
Man four.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
In the conversation two five two three one nine two
two Resident brick Tony, Uh, Sunday, May twenty eight, nineteen
sixty seven. The waiting us to call back pursuing this
investigation time approximately three thirty five. Oh yeah, I caught

(01:24):
I caught you. Look. Uh I've been putting a file together.
Uh uh today I've been pulling stuff out and I
had to go over wearing some other stuff stored.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Yeah, and uh per my conversation with uh mister Sharon
and yesterday, I wasn't putting a file together something pre
well document. Of course we didn't mention any names. You know,
almost so many that say Pappy you are that? Uh well?

(01:59):
I oh no, I was waiting to hear from him.
See so I told him that several people who had
come in and this were reputable people. I'm been putting
a file together this show we get together. Well.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Uh he told me that uh uh if you were
back to the original uh uh things about the financial kit,
you know that.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
I told him this, I said, uh, what you got?
I said, uh, I I gotta have some assurance that
the network's gonna stand. But I I said, whether it's
that or an exchange of letters or something, I said,
I just can't take care. Now. This guy's uh former

(02:43):
intelligence saucer. He's either CIC or c I d uh.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Uh he he he's.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Not He's not a he's not a dumbbell. This man,
uh that this man has had Uh let me turn
this television set off here. I can hardly I can
I can hardly think that aren't news broadcasts playing in
the background.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Hold on for me.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
M what kit turns a crazy thing on and just
leaves it on and walks off. You know, our children
are well anyway.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (03:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Shannon is a former intelligence officer. He's uh, he's had
those are good sold him before you and I mean,
I mean, I'm I'm the same way, you know. You
know in one respect to uh, I wanna know that, Uh,
somebody's just not giving me a lot of hot air,
you know. Well yeah, uh they gave me more.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Guarantees than I so yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
And well he uh we left each other in a
in a well, we we left each other in a
pretty good frame of mind. He said I'd hear from
him later. Yeah, So I assumed by that that perhaps
I would one way or another. You see. In the meantime, Uh,
I made some contacts by phone. I put uh file
together to show the background and some of these other

(04:01):
persons that I mentioned, and uh to substantiate my business,
you understand. So uh we come to some kind of
an understanding, I'll be able to lay out documentary uh
proof of what uh what is the story I've got
to say.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
And uh, also in the morning, I've got to talk
to uh an intelligence saucer in or to see how
much of this stuff I got as classified too. I
mean whether I can use one of these people or not,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Uh, we'll only one person that you got.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well, I mean, here's the thing. I mean you're interested in, uh,
the story we spoke of and and to. I can
substantiate the story and it'll it'll wind up, it'll make
a h it'll it'll scream hope from hell to high heaven.
That's what you want and uh what apparently uh uh
apparently uh uh that's what you want proof of. Then

(04:58):
I'll give it to you in the world. There's whatever
I say. You want it. You want it verified, you know,
in other words, for your own for your own protection.
You want it substantiated, don't you. Well you're anything I've
got to say. You want it collaborated. Whether you use
it or not, your.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Own statement is your own best evidence.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
If you say.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
The thing was a hope from your standpoint, that that's
all we need from you.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
And I wanted to show you. Is that proof. It's
a hope from the whole standpoint, the whole goddamn picture
I don't really need, We don't really need that.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
That's all. We've got our group of hope.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well from nineteen sixty three until now, we'll put it
like that, well at any rate. In fact, I'm just
going through some stuff here. And I had the show
where Garrison got his Cuban connection.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
There.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
He got that from one of his worst political enies, enemies, uh,
five years ago, four years ago. He picked that little
pitch up years and years ago. And I've got the
newspaper article that the newspaper article, it was a publication
from once he got it. Yeah, this has been the
thing over a long period of time. Whether you know,

(06:07):
we don't.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I'll tell you a grope of our interests limited at
this point, going to go so far that well.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
In other words, here's the thing I want to I
want to give a complete I've got to mention people
I talked to prior to an initial phone call, and
I want to show you where these people fit in
and and so on and so what they said. Uh,
I'll give you the story, and I want to show why.
You see what I mean I've got. In other words,

(06:37):
I can, I can, I can. In other words, if
I show you something and I can show you, you
you well if you are this story, it's the truth,
you understand.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Uh, or I'm concerned you're at this point you're dealing
with Waldron.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
All right, we'll explain to him that I called you
and what I had to say. Now I've got this
stuff together. At about ten or eleven o'clock in the morning,
I've got to meet a friend of mine. Right, it's
a it's not a friend, that's a a contact I
have here to be sure that I can use this
one person there. It's alright, you know, because I don't
want to do anything that uh might uh conflict with government,

(07:11):
you know, but I've got to meet this man. He's
currently with the US government. And all right, Hm, well,
I'm gonna tell him I'm dealing with you. Follow So
that's that's it, you know, all right, if I'm ready
to go anytime now, if he uh explain what makes.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
The guarantees that he got, I can tell you that
because you know, you're just gonna have to take that
word for it.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, he said he was gonna clear. He told me
he was gonna clear some things with the uh what's
your the home office or whatever it.

Speaker 7 (07:38):
Was there, and that he can give you.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Is I Uh, we're gonna back you up in terms
of any harassment.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Well, we we had some conversations there, uh that uh
I didn't have with you.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, and uh so, uh well, I'll tell him to
get that's.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
All right, Uh probably tell him I won't be ready
to open this prime file and completely crack it open
and give names, times and dates and places uh until
uh probably about noon tomorrow, right, because I've got to
get some of this stuff clear, you know, Okay, okay,
so alrighty by life. Termination of telephone call from Rick

(08:21):
Connelly received by me uh at approximate way by thirty
on the evening May twenty eighth, nineteen sixty seven, pursue
this investigation. That was mister Rick Tonney. We were referring
to mister Walmers Sheridan in BC.

Speaker 8 (09:06):
Uh uh hello mister.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Huh no, mis iarn I argue this morning, all right jack,
uh work the reason I called you is the best
time to cut you go ahead, uh work. I uh

(09:39):
these people, as I told you for some many weeks
now try to get me to give him this film.
Well I did. I contacted uh finally, as I told you,
I was going to and uh you and I had
lunch uh our phone conversations, and then the first in
person thery uhle see, I won't give you the protection

(10:01):
of the network, you know. Yeah, well that's that's that's good.
If if if uh if if it isn't just air,
you know what I mean, conversation. Yeah, And I said,
well that's fine. I said, Look, I said, uh, I've
got to have some protection if I go out on
a limb.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
I said, I've uh this man will not only mean
he's not gonna spol still, he's gonna retaliate. This man
does that. That's that's the way he lives. Yeah, it's
his philosophy. Yeah, I said, true or false anything, he's
gonna he's gonna he's gonna come back on me or
you'll he comes back on everybody, one way or another.
And I said, look, I said, I've I've got to

(10:38):
be assured the fact that, uh, you're just giving me
something besides conversation, I said, in exchange of letters or
uh some medium, just to prove to me that uh
uh damn it, I'm gonna have some means of defense.
I said, I I I just can't be your word
on something. I said, I don't know you that well,
So anyway, it doesn't work out to h and uh

(11:01):
the next thing, I know, I gotta call. I talked
to him again on the phone, and then mister Waller
Sheridan to uh call me. Yeah, I met with him.
We went to the met over was uh Saturday over there.
We went to the cafe to Morrow and I had
coffee from me little park there and uh, he tells

(11:23):
me the same thing. Oh yeah, he said, you're well,
he says, you're The main protection is the fact that
the public knows well, my god, the public, Uh is
no protection. You can pass out handbills. I don't mean nothing,
you not and I not. So I told him again.
I said, look, I said, uh, I'm not tryna to
shake anybody down or any of that nonsense. I said, Oh,

(11:46):
I I know, I uh may possess some what of
a nefarious reputation he had? I said, uh, in an
exchange of letters, uh anything, I said, I've got like that.
I said, just write out on not and you're on handwriting.
I said, uh, give me reasonable assurance that you've liked.
People are gonna say, I we don't know you. I said, nah,

(12:07):
I know, I said, uh you and I I've uh,
I've been around a little bit more to us, you know.
Damn well, you tell people just about anything you can
to get a story. I said, but uh, a man,
I said, I can't do that to myself. Can't do it,
absolutely not. And uh, I said, you're I understand you're
a former intelligence agent, mister Sharon, and uh, you know

(12:27):
what goes on. Let's not kid each other. I said,
this is a lot of intrigue in the Orleans. It's
a It's another Lisbon, they Stein Boll another Ireland. You
know that these people are capable of anything. I said,
I gotta I gotta have some assurance that you know,
let me sit.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
Out in the minaria. And if he said, I don't.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Know what I can do, and I said, well, you
got a three hundred thousand dollars appropriation. You first got
it for a half hour show, and then you got
about five hundred thousand dollars, got an increase two hundred
thousand dollars for for an hour show. I said, uh,
you know yourself, if I, if I suffered any retaliation
from this man, the first thing I'm gonna have to
make is around a five thousand dollars sure, he buy.

(13:09):
That's five bills right there. I said, it's gonna I
can't get a lawyer in town. It offend me for
less than five hundred if you know that. And I said,
uh uh well, I said y uh. I talked to Steve.
I said, Steve, advise me not to have anything to do.
He just remain silent.

Speaker 5 (13:24):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
I said, I'm talking to you against a vice a council. Technically,
I says, true. Mm, who's heah, who's here about it?

Speaker 8 (13:30):
Well?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
He was deep parking with him still is as far
as I know. I said, uh so, I said, you
see where I'm at. And I said, uh uh damn it.
I said, uh you could take uh ten one hundred
dollar bills and cut him in a half. I said, anything,
or if exchange the letters anything, I said, then if
I need it, well, I said, uh uh you can

(13:53):
back me up. If not all this, that's it. And uh,
I don't know. He says, I don't have to. I
have to speak to the neck word network. I said,
when you're's all in your hands, that's why you're here.
And he said, well, maybe I'll get with you later.
Maybe I'll get with you later. In other words, Uh.
I told him, I said, well, it seems you want
me to go all the way with you, but uh

(14:15):
uh you you're killing me the con here, and that's
about what it amounts to do, you know. I first
he fills the back. But oh, I'm not trying to
make I'm not trying to play games or none of
that stuff like you mentioned. I said, there's no game
to it. Uh my god. Uh do they expect me
to uh to lay my my my, my life out

(14:39):
on the line and lay my head on a bock
and then trust somebody not to bring the acts down.
That's what of the monster?

Speaker 5 (14:45):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (14:48):
I mean you see my point of view there, don't you?

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (14:52):
I I that's probably between you two. But all I
can tell you nobody can comple can protect any body,
but anyth fact there is that we're trying to get
what what they community these is.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
The truth in order to solve a problem.

Speaker 8 (15:08):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
The truth is not always an easy thing to give.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
Again, fortune that are got their steak and thick, why well.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Hm, let's not be sophistic there. And I mean, uh uh,
I'm speaking generally. The district attorney. Now you've seen this,
try talking about.

Speaker 5 (15:29):
The disc attorney.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
Uh, there's only one way that uh, there's abuse of
people can be dealt with that it's by an accumulation
enough truth, that's all.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Uh. Well, these guys, uh they they they jumped all
over me five or six times. They come to the
house here. One time they left.

Speaker 3 (15:48):
This uh funny guy.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Uh the s two dicks Uh Huh well Lois All
and Ivan they they they uh, let's notes for me
and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Uh uh come.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
By Sunday uh mornings and before at nine o'clock and
take me down at the a's office and nonsense. Uh
Uh I'm I'm not the average run in the MIDLK guy.
This this crap doesn't scare me, but you take the
average square. So I tried to explain to him. I said,
my god, I said, conduct like that that people don't understand.
It completely demoralizes them and shakes 'em up. And I

(16:23):
said it throws things clear out of proportion to where
they they think it's worse than what it is. But
I said, it is goddamn embarrassing. And uh fack, I said,
these these people, I said, have no mercies. They'll tag
something on you.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
Well, have they tagged anything?

Speaker 2 (16:38):
No, I said, they can, though you know have no
not yet. But uh jesus, uh, let's you know what
the facts are. Aron, I'm not uh, I'm not trying
to kid you. I'm not trying to play games with you.
But it seemed to me that if if Sharonan and
NBC were sincere and at least turn around and and
and and give me, I'd be the recipient of eleven

(17:00):
uh uh stating the fact that they would back me
up in the event uh uh of any kind of retaliation.
And I mean, I mean, I don't think that's too
much that well. Or evidently they're backing up Bob Buff
and they're cause bub Buff didn't have uh uh nicol
wan to run to a lawyer with somebody's doing something
for him.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
No Vell, NBC is picking up the tab for novel
with plot Can. He admits it. Plot Can admits it.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
A the NBC is paying him.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Sure, Hell yeah, he's been me. They're picking up the tab.
He first, he said, well, you know, Jack, he sold
the Jamaican I said, hell, he was in hock to
a guy, damn Pinball. I mean not the uh the
the uh uh music music people over there for everything
the damn thing was worth. I said that joint wasn't solid,
and you know it, and I know it. I said, Oh,
you're kidding, he says, Well, he says, I'm not so

(17:52):
sure that NBC would vote still for you, Jack. I said, well,
I don't bullyeve me. I can give this man and
more shit and isn a A and and another ship
and more ship probably than Novell can, cause I won't.
I won't contaminate mine. When a bunch of this argument,
I'm at home, I'm about c I and uh the
governor and a lot of a lot of rot. I said, ah,

(18:15):
I'll get the basket right between the headlights where it'll
hurt yack.

Speaker 5 (18:19):
But I gotta get corner of the office.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, and uh, you don't call me there a little
or something that time, but I gotta, oh, all right,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I buy eight yo, I'm sorry.
I know you got I know you've got appointments and stuff.
We wanna call me about nine o'clock the AUTHO property
there none he finds her, of course, I thank you, sir.

(18:54):
I had a transmission uh eight fifty uh seven fifty five.
I is seven fifty five with Aaron.

Speaker 5 (19:04):
Mc corn.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
Twenty ninth of May nineteen sixty seven. It's Monday morning,
pursu of this investigation in hopes that he will contact
Walter Sheridan written time he or some of the people
in the NBC as a following up. It was his
conversational pursuit.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Oh h.

Speaker 6 (19:40):
Uh uh.

Speaker 5 (19:48):
Fine, commission.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, what's the call?

Speaker 1 (19:51):
He attack? Well, you were there, yeah, oh hold it
just a second.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, Uh yeah, Uh well that's what I was thinking,
uh was to call and they they people seem reluctant.
I don't know whether they destructed trust me or not.
I can't blame 'em for that after what's been said.
Uh well, I talked to both Walter uh Sheridan and

(20:19):
uh Rick Connelly, the idlest of Rick first and then
later uh Walter Sheridan called me side of me and
I might him at two o'clock over there if as
I said before, across from the Basilica the cathedral, and
we went over in that coffee again Kef and DeMont.
Uh here's the thing. Uh, you know the viciousness of

(20:40):
the opposition. I don't have to orient you that. You
know their capabilities and what they can do they uh uh,
I can't do anything from beat the hell out of you,
to continue to harassment to you get yourself killed or
go to Angora.

Speaker 8 (20:56):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Uh. You've seen what happened though, Davis. You've seen what
happened to Livers say, you've seen what happened to half
a dozen other people. So the legend goes, yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
uh Santos uh Jesus. I mean we could go in
there's a legion of uh I was a legion of things.
So the legend goes, you know what I mean? Yeah,

(21:19):
uh you and I might uh know the difference between
the legend fact and re uh fiction. You know, these
people don't that we're dealing with the I tried to
explain to them, and they said yeah.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Walter said yeah, he was aware. I said, well, you
got yourself another Lisbon. You've got another Dublin there, You've
got another Eastern bull here. You only you don't know
you're square. You might be another intelligence officer. I understand
he was in c ID or see I see of
something during the wars. And and I said, but you

(21:53):
don't know, you think you don't uh believe me When
I said, well, he said, we were gonna I had said,
you give me an a a letter or something or
other exchange of letters or I said, take yourself uh
ten him more or one hundred dollar bills and cut
him and a half something the something to give me
some security, you know. He said, no, we were gonna

(22:14):
give you a thousand dollars. We just pay you. And
I said well, and he said, but I can't seep
paying for information. I said, you're not. I said, this
is insurance that I'll uh.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
To me that.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
No he doesn't. He says, well, we if we were
gonna give you a thousand, we just give it to you.
We wouldn't buy it to cut a half. See. Uh
it's it's sounded to me as if they might. But
he says, the only thing we're reluctant in doing that
because we don't feel we should pay for inform. I said, well,
that's that's double entrendee. I said, that's uh you know
a way. I said, Look, I said, I'm not asking
for money for what I might say. It's the idea

(22:49):
that I'm I need assurance of the fact. It's insurance
to me that uh a goddamn it that I'm not
I'm gonna have some. I got an ason a hale,
and I said, you got those pictures of mister Ham.
You're versatile, you can turn around and h You're very flexible.
You can you can choose your own defense. You have
a means of various means of defense. Whereas if you

(23:09):
just got a letter of promise or a verbal word.
It's a lot of hot air. I said. Moreover, I said,
if it was done in that way, it was done
in a cash uh insurance policy, you might say I
said that the insurance would be on your side of
the fence. You'd already paid your obligation. That would be
the end of it. There's nothing I could say, because

(23:31):
I've had it, you know. And I said that that
would also ensure you. I said, that's the only reason
I brought it up. I'm not trying to be a
climb destined or sharp with you or anything like that.
It's just the idea that I'm scared. And I said,
I'm a man that I'm used to this fear. I've
lived on her. And I said, it don't face me
like a lot of squares like it does a lot

(23:51):
of squares. I said, but I know what these people
are capable of another and they pulled something on me.
It's gonna be good and permanent. They're not gonna just
just lean on me. They're gonna do more and that
they're gonna fix me up real good. And he says, well,
you probably hear from it. So that was the end
of it. That was Saturday. I didn't hear anything sunny,
and I probably wan't hear anything today.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
Uh I called.

Speaker 8 (24:13):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
I talked to Rick to Sunday afternoon and he said, wow,
he said, I don't know. It's just uh uh I
tat of my hands. It's to sharing its hands, you know.
And I tried to explain the record again what uh
what I was getting after? There's nothing. I'm not asking
for a payoff, you know. In other words, that isn't it.
I think you'll understand what I mean. And because you

(24:35):
you've been here a long time, you you've been faced
with this thing before. You see these people operate.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Now.

Speaker 8 (24:43):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
I know you don't like to be a part of
you a thing like this, but I know, uh, it's
not hard to see where your sympathies are.

Speaker 5 (24:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I'd go so far as to seeing this eron and
if you. Uh, I don't know whether you wanna get
involved him or not. But uh, if they if they
give you some written assurance or uh uh deposit something
with you there too that I could I could fall
back on if I had to, you understand, Uh, i'd

(25:13):
uh I I'd go along. If they don't wanna trust me. Uh,
if they they give you a thousand dollars, or if
they give you the letter for me in case I
happen to have to have it, you know what I mean? Uh,
I would be alright with me. I trust you, you
know I do. You and I might have our petty disagreements,
but uh, you're the type of man I know that

(25:33):
Uh your in your integrities or beyond approach. I just
want something a little more than just conversation.

Speaker 8 (25:42):
Now. Uh.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
You and I have had in in uh for years.
We've dealt with a lot of people, and we've had
conversation good many times and it a lot of times
it's fell through. Hadn't it.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Like that you would tell you that? Huh? I guess
you would tell you that.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Well, all right, So uh, when you when you're dealing
with something that could mean your wife and these people
aren't playing you gotta you gotta you gotta have some
proof there. You just don't you When you're doing business
do I mean work?

Speaker 4 (26:13):
No?

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Uh, a verbal agreement and a handshake. So sometimes it's okay,
But when you're playing for your life in their high stakes. Uh,
not only my life, but like I'm my wife and
kid that they go you know. I mean, uh, fifteen
years ago, I might have taken a chance with these guys,
but that isn't now.

Speaker 7 (26:31):
I was.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
I'm a nine year old son, I got a wife. Well, uh,
my wife got a little political job down her. You
know that she's on civil service of God.

Speaker 8 (26:38):
Damn.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
I mean, uh, I can completely destroy myself. You know,
these people could destroy me. I'll put it like that,
and they might do.

Speaker 5 (26:48):
Fact, I don't know what to tell you know what
does he I know that you're and now I know that.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
Is that you're a you're a good friend to love.
It's over there. I know that you know a lot
of those people at NBC.

Speaker 5 (27:00):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
And I'm not trying to play any goddamn games.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm a I might cont a lot of people in
my life. I waiver. However, I've ever con you, however
I read it con you eron or even tried to.
I mean, I I've likeled you a few times. We've
had our petty disagreements when we come down to course
hard God damn facts I never should have with you.
If Zach I don't know of it's for sure. There
have been times I suspect that you have, but that

(27:27):
it is an important right now.

Speaker 5 (27:29):
Let me say something to you. All I can do
is to teach you. What I say. Would you call
me at home from Saturday morning? Yeah, uh, Friday morning, Friday? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (27:40):
And that is at uh.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
The time I've come to everybody to tell the truth.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
I mean there's been a.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
Uh the community is.

Speaker 5 (27:52):
In a myth of confusion.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
About this, even make cigarettes or cools and.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Stunning way.

Speaker 5 (28:00):
So you you you sometimes play games, but I've seen
little bits here.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, there's some are games. I'm not playing games, all right.
This this this is a deadly serious game.

Speaker 5 (28:13):
All right, Well what that's what I'm the point I'm
trying to make. It is a deadly serious game, and
sometimes deadly serious games dealing with truth can can bring
about pretty harsh reaction from people.

Speaker 7 (28:28):
For home, Troup is.

Speaker 5 (28:29):
A danger time now living in a democracy where where
people have to take their chances.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
With the.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
The democracy where the guy can the guys. The governor
backs this guy up on everything he do, he does.
I tried to explain to this man. I said that, uh,
I told shearity. I said, you and I could be
sitting at the same table. It could be two guys
sit at the table next to a charity under Louisiana. Lord,
it's a perfectly valid, legitimate the two guys sitting across
from ass Thereah could pull guns on us. Cock the guns.

(29:01):
You could shoot one guy in the fence of your life,
and I could shoot the other. The district attorney in
the parish of Wings or any other perish in the
state of Louisiana can prosecute whom he chooses. I said
he could. He could refuse to charge you for shooting
the guy that was gonna kill you, but he could
try me for murder for the guy I killed.

Speaker 5 (29:18):
Well, that's true, but that's not I'm I'm not keep
in mind. A democracy allowed for uh, I'm left for
a bird to it and do something about it. A
vows for people to take over a party and abuse it.
And abe is that destructive on him? This is what's
been happening.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
I know, I know this true. But at the same time,
if if if if one of those kangaroo court judges
done here or somebody said, he sends me to the
penitentiary and I'm sitting there, or they putting me in jail,
I'm sitting in jail, and who's gonna defend me.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Nobody.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
They don't give a daily put Jack Martin. You know
this yourself. I've been such a I'm no asset to
this community. Then let me go down to sewer words
and some quicker than they with some bum and you know,
not know it, there be's a goddamn glad to get
rid of me. Man, they they they pull a chain
on me. You see, I've got I've gotta, I've gotta.

(30:09):
I got a pretty tough situation to look at. And
you uh y, you know it, I I uh uh.
People in this Kinmi community don't love me anything.

Speaker 8 (30:19):
Uh No.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
People Uh there's many people scared of the death of me,
Like ben Kate what the Time magazine said, Jesus should
be surprised that people that fear you, they're scared of
the death of you. They say you're coming. Are the
people they seem to kind of like you, but they
still fear you.

Speaker 8 (30:34):
Uh Uh.

Speaker 5 (30:34):
I think for some people because they said, damn, I'm predictable.
I don't never know what's gonna be when you go
to now. But that, well, we're not.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
That's the fact that the yeah, right, well, I'm not
playing games. There's no game here. I'm not trying to manipulate.
There's no chests involved. This is straight out.

Speaker 5 (30:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
I don't mind getting up there. I pull the whole
goddamn thing, and I'll bring at least three other people
in the thing to cooperate my testimony. But I'm not
even gonna give I mean, I'm I even I've got
everything documented. I went through everything I had. The other day.
I pulled stuff out a safety deposit fault you uh
the other day. Uh, I've got stuff in a file
that I can show up. Here's why it happened, here's
the people, here's the background on him, the whole thing.

(31:15):
And then or not you wanna put this in continuity,
order him or write it, and this is what I'll use,
and here's what I'll say. And if it doesn't blow
Garrison on in the water, if it doesn't go off
like an h boum bomb around the world. I'll kiss you,
asked the middle of now Street. But I'm not gonna
mention the people involved. I'm not even gonna uh I.
I I gave him I a perhaps story about this

(31:35):
thing the other day.

Speaker 1 (31:37):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
I gave it twice. And I shouldn't have done that
because these guys are more approximately what I'm gonna get
at now. But uh it's it's hot enough that it'll
you'll you'll you'll ricochet around this goddamn go a buddy,
and it'll it'll brand this guy. He's through. Believe me.
I want to tell you he's through. And when these
these two goons drove me home and told me we
want things documented, and I said, what do you want
me to do? Break in and take documents? And I said, well,

(32:01):
that wouldn't be a good idea or anything. What Oh
I to whitez alland uh and uh and uh and
I fun, I said, you want me to buy a
goddamn crowbar ruh. Well, I'm one of the only guys
to ever come up with an actual FOTA stat of
the Secret Service report including there's five pages of that
and six pages of of of YEP classified FBI documents

(32:22):
attached to an actual FOORTA stat I don't mean something
that somebody wrote down and copied, like the reporters had
to do. I got an actual FORORTA stack above it
the signatures of of John Garrison Anthony Wright. The signatures
are reproduced on this thing. It's an actual document. I
I come up with some good stuff, I believe me,
and I wouldn't give it the Garrison. I turned around

(32:45):
and gave copies to Irwin Diamond. I went up there
and told him, I said, you know, your plan and
I had one distinction, one similarity.

Speaker 1 (32:53):
We're parallel.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
We've both been blasted, We're both about the same age,
and no matter what we do. After we mocked, I said,
I can't find your client's name anywhere.

Speaker 8 (33:05):
In this thing.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
And I give copies to all the news media. I
imagine Garrison got they ran off minor run off copies
for him. I don't know, but I told Garrison this,
you're subpoening me as a witnesser before your goddamn grand jury.
I'll say I'll take the fifth because anything I might say. Yeah,
they branded me as a as a drunken bomb and
a conveyor a bad information. And I said, anything I
say could be taken double entran D. I could be

(33:27):
holding perjury. And I said, so I'll say nothing. I
take the fifth. You can't touch me, I said, or
anybody desubpoenas me in this thing. And I said, I
use this as an authoritory tATu document. Now I've done
that much to all man. I'm said, goddamn man, he
could kill me. And am I going like if I
do this, uh, the the man will resort to something.
And don't you kid yourself. He's got clandestine connections and

(33:49):
you know it, and I know it. I'm not above
getting killed. But I I I got no gun from it.
I can't defend myself. I've been carrying a gun at
night when I go out with my family. I k
uh illegally cause I've had some things happened to me

(34:10):
error and I haven't opened my mouth about it.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I had the ship kicked outomy two or three times.

Speaker 1 (34:17):
By oh I have I don't know by whom? What
do you mean you don't know body?

Speaker 2 (34:23):
The goons I don't know who they are look like picnics.
So I are up in my neighborhood picnics don't live
up here. I've had threats on the telephone, and I
got an enlisted number. I'm not listened to directory?

Speaker 3 (34:40):
Are you talking about since this thing started?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Absolutely? Absolutely? I had the ship kicked otomy while I
was in Houston. Why do you think I come back here?
It's got b b bastards found out where I was.

Speaker 5 (34:57):
Are you sure it wasn't because he got dropping O, sir,
No rambunk Hambai, No.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Sir, No sure no? Sure? I was going in the
back now, Listen, I was going. I had no telephone
in the little apartment that I was in. Uh. I
had to go in the guy's office and into his
house to use his phone. Yeah, and I was way
in back where nobody could have found me. Nobody knew
where I was. In fact, uh, this guy. I'd go
in there in the grocery store to pick up beer
and stuff now once in a while at night. One

(35:23):
time to call my wife at the house, I had
to go across the way to the phone booth over there,
and and they got me on the goddamn street. They'd
been sitting out there. They found out where the hell
I was. Another next time they knocked at the door
of the apartment when nobody was around, nobody was up
front the front house, up front or upstairs over me.
And that was enough, Dad, that was enough. And I

(35:46):
waited til daylight the next morning, and I slipped out
of there, and you didn't recognize him, No sir, No sir,
man it's dark as it was pitch dark at night,
no sir. And I've I just happened right here in
the wallets when it was darking. And I've had calls
on the phone. You better not talk to the wrong people.

(36:08):
You blah blah blah blah and all kinds of crap
on the phone, Spanish and English. Uh, people talking with
an accent, whether the accent was good or bad.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
The accents. I couldn't trace whether they were German or
Spanish or what they were, you know what I mean?
And I mean, I'm I'm I'm a pretty good uh uh.
I can tell just about what type of accent the
person's got, you can. I think it's a lot of
I thy people are putting on funny voices, you.

Speaker 9 (36:35):
Know, lack.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
I don't know what the charge you were doing? All
all all I.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
Can do, I I don't know what the answer is.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, see, I know about the here's the deal, Aron,
I don't wanna talk about the CIA, and don't wanna
talk about the ammunition, uh or any of that bullshit.
I was in on this stuff. I saw this stuff.
I know all about it. There's nothing about it. God
damn it that I don't know.

Speaker 5 (36:58):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (36:58):
You saw what the ammunition from Slumber all that stuff
that was back in January sixty one? That stuff was
Jordan Bannister's office. Yeah, uh we would uh we had
a key for that goddamn thing, had he had a
key having Uh Yeah, we didn't cut me locks or
none of that bullshit. In fact, after that, they were
using a runaway right over that slumber Shay to pull

(37:19):
this stuff out and flat to Miami with Bannister went
down there got Emmy Lloyd was was the manager here.
That won't he I don't know. Yeah for Slimmer Shay,
Emmy Lay. He's not a president, not of Houston. He
won't admit this.

Speaker 5 (37:31):
Wo.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
But Banister put the white mail to him after we
could put those those those arms out of there. They
were owned by the d g SS, the rex g
Generalal Service Bachelou. There was the anti Gaullis factions. Those
those arms were in the United States illegally. They were
gonna be used against Martinique and wan O'll pay. I
don't even ci A knows what I know or not.

(37:52):
I don't give it, damn, But I don't wanna talk
about I never told anybody this stuff, and I never will.
The stuff was ha Donic guanamart America, U cotten at
Guana Mile. How did Banister get rawn that helped the Cubans?
Originally you had been working with some people in Alani
and then somebody give him a connection to Cia. I
know how that happened. That happened through a playing post.

(38:12):
I was boxing New York. I know exactly how.

Speaker 8 (38:15):
It all was.

Speaker 5 (38:19):
This when Vanarster was thick already.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
This is back in sixty one.

Speaker 8 (38:23):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
You remember when he all of a sudden he got
a lot of confidence behind him. He started carrying his
gun again, this and that. Really he had a letter
of mark signed by Robert Kennedy.

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Dad.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
You didn't notice, did you?

Speaker 3 (38:40):
Wow?

Speaker 2 (38:40):
That's right, very had a letter of mark.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Did you folve him?

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (38:48):
In fact?

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Uh, everybody that was working with Banister had anything to
do with this, had a photostant of the letter of
market t and attached to it was a was a
letter of assignment from Guy Banister and he's a letter
at Station Earl signature notorized by Grady Durham Dick.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
That one pop up.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Minus ut maaster recovered for everybody. So, I mean we
had cart blood from everything from from from grand theft
to murder.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Anybody might grand theft well.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
In service of your government. The seis arms uh that
are illegally within this nation which might be used against
an other wise friendly nation for nations and DI suppose
the same as director. They didn't say Howell who find
that Robert Kennedy the Attorney General of the United States.

(39:42):
These things were a lift cur i by Courier Uh.
The one that Mark Martin sand uh was made out.
The boutee in the concert was a joint letter VERA
signed by Robert Kennedy that was delivered to Martin's and
Cotcha by Courier in hand. All these letters were delivered

(40:04):
in hand. I don't wanna talk about that bullshit. I
don't want to hit at the core of the situation,
the fraud. What wrong Garrison, and he's banned his bandic gangsters.
That's all I'm interested in. I don't want to involve

(40:26):
my nation's security. If I don't want to involve my
national security. As I wrote Hailbox and Russell Lung, I
got letters and I called plotting off the goddamn case,
told them not to sue the government. I can prove
that Anthony Garritson, John Rice bigoted, falsified, bigoted as they
are falsified the damn reports that they they they took

(40:48):
in their synopsis the report. I predicated their report upon
the words of David W.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Ferry.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
I had four witnesses in the house at the time
besides my wife and myself and my kid that heard it,
heard what went on?

Speaker 5 (41:02):
Do you mean when they interviewed for it, when.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
They interviewed me and read I could I could hit
Regus Kennedy? Do you think I I'd I'd ruined a
man of twenty years behind him about ready to retire.
On top of that, Marion Johnson, the archivist, UH turn
around and release this thing after on three occasions I'd
invoke confidential informing immunity and it was alright. It was conceded.

(41:29):
I got this on tape. I got the recordings on it.
Were they were? Were they where they conceded it? And
you know what I could do? The tender mercies, the
legal profession. You know what they'd do with something like this,
every case it was a confidential informant on they couldn't
get a conviction. They they start filing appeals. Oh man,
you think this went over. I couldn't do this to

(41:50):
my government. I couldn't do this to law enforcement. That's
exactly what I threw Hale and buck Long. That's exactly
what I told my lawyer. Forget the suit, to hell
with it, I'll take it it down. I got four
stats the letters where I can show you. Now, do
you what kind of a what kind of a uh?

(42:10):
A bastard do you think I am?

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I can't destroy men that it mighta uh. I can't
destroy the good that these men might've beene in their
pastor and they're they're entitled, there are pensions, they're there.

Speaker 8 (42:21):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I can't defame them because I've been I've been degraded.
I don't I don't appreciate what they did, but there
was good cause for doing it. Because uh, even though
I even know what I said might have been a
lie at the time.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
And there's good reason too. They had to protect Ferry.
The the the the FAA had been going to cancel
the license, and the FAA investigators were told to lay
off because he was involved with CI and UH operations.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Uh I.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
I wasn't aware of how deeply involved her it was
until til recently. And uh uh I can see now
where there were the implications and this versions cast against
CIA that would that would hurt them. I mean, these
these pastors give their lives every day for our nation's defense,
and there's a bunch of idiots when you when you're
right to the public, you're talking to a five year
old child eron and these people saying, ah, the c

(43:17):
I ain't planning to kill the president. Uh you can't
tell these money newspaper reporters this. That's why I wanna
get uh. I like to see this goddamn thing stopped.

Speaker 5 (43:26):
Well, you don't think the reporter, oh, the c I
ain't plant to the other brand.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Well no, that's what the asshole public, the majority of
people will think in the long run. The way it's going,
there was a bunch of asspholes or all, all all
chief slow Indians involved in this goddamn thing that act
in dependent and then I'll blame an organization as they
do they did the front day and they the if
the French are the same goddamn way these anagarics and

(43:52):
this is an anti Gallis pocket. You know what went
on here, and that was a very serious thing. Hell
they they captured poor French generals and hung one of
'em the span of the French foreign ladiship that the
course I got back then over that martin the Guadalopei
or Algerian situation, these were French munitions in there. Man,

(44:14):
Slumberger was in on it. Uh French Slumberg is a
French old company, home office, parents, friends, they're anti guards.
There was some various French concerns in on that that
make uh slumber Game look like a corner grocery store. Man,

(44:35):
I don't wanna get into all that operation. I don't
wanna get into it. Proved garrison of fraud my own
quiet rottle way and just mentioned what happened in relation
to the David Ferry in nineteen sixty three and how
I perimitted up to the day. How can you prove
that garret is a fraud because the whole goddamn thing
was initiated by Fry. I know, I know how his

(44:57):
investigation had started. W No, it wasn't with me. I
didn't talk to him till the fifth that's were you
all full of shit?

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (45:07):
I know how it could started through a couple of shys.
The lawyers here in town interviewed very in a deposition,
and they asked you a bunch of foolish questions, and
he signed the goddamn thing.

Speaker 5 (45:15):
You mean about that traffic thing? Yeah, I don't believe it.
I don't think that traffic accident report shows what you
claim it does at all.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
It's not a report not to report itself. But they
did ask him during the interview a bunch of stuff,
and they turned.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
Around, Uh, you're dud.

Speaker 5 (45:31):
You're just guessing, an't you? No?

Speaker 2 (45:32):
No, no, because they heard him do it. They may
not have put it all down in writing, cause I
never seen the deposition, but they I understand they taped
the goddamn thing or something else, and they had it,
and then when somebody else got ahold of it, well,
then they turned around and manipulated it around it and
started this goddamn investigation going, but I didn't talk to
me till the fifth of December. I'll tell you who
blew the whistle on the whole goddamn thing was Joseph

(45:54):
Samuel Libro junior at the school with Charlie ray Warden
and Carl Bron his lawyer. And then after they the
interviewed knew new Brou, after the interviewed me, the interviewed
new Braun, and he walked right up to to d
didn't see everybody elevator chefter the singing, Poy says, I
guess what these assholes are are investigating now? He says,
the assassination of President Kennedy. That's what started.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
It is about the.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
Sixth or the seventh of December, somewhere around in there.
He talked to meet the fifth. He'd been working on
the Danling since last u uh uh November, working on
Jerrison had been working on, says November. What does Joe
new Brou know about it? I don't know. He worked
in Banister's office, and so did everybody else involved uh
or had worked you know, or out of there. So

(46:36):
they talked to everybody in the course of events, and
jo was just like I am he's antike Garrison. Believe
me he's anti.

Speaker 5 (46:53):
Oh, I don't think that kind of different whether your
anti dear and not the question.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Whether or not.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Well, I I don't like the way they handle me.
They told me to buy a cot damn crow bar
and go out and steal I see owt to be
a fucking burglar? Are they gonna lean on me or
wrass me around in my house? And all that bullshit
I could give you, I c I can out here
in other words, wan, I wanna lay it out in
chronological order. I gotta I I got a good I
got a good case, if not better than bobof and
the rest of these passes. And Sharon tells me he's

(47:22):
got twenty people driping their heads off where they offer
him money and nobody else. Well, shit, they paid me
money and can't prove it.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Okay, uh I.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
That's just it. You're pulling the story out of me.

Speaker 5 (47:34):
And a right well who says about.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, here's the thing I mean. I I I got
something to say. If I get onto TV, I'll say something.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
Are you gonna be able to back it out?

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yup? I will lay it out in a continuity in
chronological order, and uh, I'll tell uh, I'll I'll say, gentlemen,
here's what I got, and I'll tell my story in
chronological order, and they can put it. Uh, they can
type out the continuity and and then judge from that.
I'll try to document as much as I can. Well,

(48:06):
get the other people on the telephone, and I'll verify
the damn stuff and let the other people done or
to sign AFFI David's on it, and perhaps put the
other people involved that that can cooperate my testimony and
get them on television too, and it'll flat end the
song of bit and he's which on.

Speaker 6 (48:22):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Yeah, believe what I tell you, fact and all. We're
gonna be paid for something like this, putting something like
this together. If I was a disinterested party, this is
something that a producer would charge five ten thousand dollars
for all.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
I don't want.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I don't wanna be paid for anything. I just wanna
be goddamn sure. At least there's a thousand dollars or
a letter of credit or uh a letter asset in
substantiate there's there's been a contract that these paths are
gonna back me up. If I got a phone in
a book. I don't want on mine up or wind.

Speaker 5 (48:54):
Up exact you that kind of thing just to leave
me out of Uh. Uh, I'm not gonna act the
intermediary between you and any news media. Uh, that's something
you have to do by yourselves.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Well, father, you're the last guy who I might trust.
They they they said, in other words, they they they
let me know that they're gonna use my name anyway.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
They're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna they're gonna.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Cut me down anyway.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Uh, whether I cooperate or not, you see what I mean.
Either way, they're gonna crucify me. So they're they're using
pressure and extortion. On mean, the same goddamn thing in
retrospect the thing that they're they're hell they or not eron,
I don't believe about it in retrospect of doing the
same goddamn that Garrisons does. Well, see when you got
trial by press where there's no defense, there's no part

(49:46):
er n you know, you know, you know, you know
what freedom of the pressure across the slide small line
of demarcation, don't you when they start editorializing, Uh.

Speaker 5 (49:54):
How well I know it, don't you know? That, and
I know it from what I know about the I
don't believe that he was.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Uh even have in.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Mind what branch of the service was he in.

Speaker 5 (50:06):
He was in the army, Well, I don't care about
what he was in the army. I'm talking about it.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
He was in the c IDEA what he or see ic.

Speaker 5 (50:13):
Wit compecutor in the United States Department of Jump.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
Well he was. He's an attorney A yeah, for sure.
He's one of your brothers at the bar. And he
knows every trick in the trade.

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Believe me, he's very competile.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't but I don't
he in the words, he's brutal and ruthless, let's say it.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
But when you start kicking the word extortion around, I don't.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
Believe you're gonna be ruth was And I told him,
I s's his white male and black mail. And he laughed.
He knew what I was talking about. And that's exactly
what mans he used then UH in the in those
days on uh on the wie uh on on why
over there with the uh with wassade. If I heard
him do it, he told him, you'll either do this
or do that. I'll blow a whistle on you. He

(50:58):
give him no choice. And that's exactly the position that
they put me into. They play a good game of chest.
They may not use the exact words, but this is
what they're doing. It amounts to the same thing. You
get the same answer to them to still make four
and they tell me I've got to get going right
well in other words, there and they tell me in
one breath they'll give me protection, and the next breath

(51:20):
they won't verify the fact that they won't. At least
you could hold a letter and envelope for.

Speaker 5 (51:25):
Me if anybody has told you they could give your
protection in the situation or be thought.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
That's all I wish. It's do you know Sharonon you
speak to him for me. He says he stays over
there at the Royal Orleans, but he's not listed. If
you called over there, they probably put your call through
because you're well known. But you could you talk to Sheridan,
tell him what Just tell him the way I feel
about this thing, and some of the things you know
about the situation here to see if you want to

(51:55):
give me something kind of consideration. I told him, I'm
not trying to be on reasonable YA.

Speaker 5 (52:02):
I can't, I cannot will not act as an intermediary.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I'm not asking you, but I just tell him whether
or not you think I'm telling you the truth. I'm
not asking you to give me an answer. Just tell
him whether or not you believe this, or whether or
not you think in your past experience that I happen
to be sincereness, I'll think about all right, thank you.

Speaker 8 (52:31):
UH.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
After this last conversation with Aaron called I'm using this
as a narrating the remainder of this tape pursued instructions
from Detective board Ross Ivan in the District Attorney's office. U,
I let pull out all stocks he gave me, more
or less, saying verbo carte blank to hang any type
of particular story upon these people to ensure confidence and

(52:56):
the activities which I endeavored to do. I have no
sense time as I ever paid by the District Attorney
or any of these aids for any of my cooperation,
or as I ever intimidated UH the contents of these
conversations on this tape UH relative only to UH a
sales job more or less that I'm doing upon these

(53:18):
people we feel are resorting to extorted measures to gather
information not to be used against the District Attorney and illegally.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
So and his good pull.

Speaker 6 (53:30):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
It appears uh in every way that these people and
they approached me for the past few weeks.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
UH.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
First to start through the garious people that knew me,
uh and UH this man Wick timely knew m Uh.
They're going to use my name. They're going to say
this or out of the other thing with or without
my permission or my support, a cooperation which leads.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Me to believe.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
They led me to believe that the statements that they
might use would be derogatori or uh not to my
best advantage. So they is extortion, no matter how you
put it. Subsequently, UH, this was the reason for the
initiation of such an investigation, to prove that these people
are using such measures in the case of both bar

(54:13):
and perhaps uh no vower of others, and that these
people also have been compensated by uh mister Sheridan of
the NBC meet for network and people doing business with them.
During the course of texta conversation, I found that uh
mister Sheridan was formerly aim of the Judge Advocate Generali's office.

(54:33):
He was an intelligence office in the United States Army.
Mister Sheridan is UH using all of his knowledge and
UH abilities to UH to pressure people in one way
or another, as did mister Tarning. Most of these techniques
were used in verbal interview, which are not recorded on
these tapes. Unfortunately, were unable to record those personal interviews.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
That is all.

Speaker 4 (56:30):
Uh uh uh.

Speaker 6 (56:43):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Operator. I'm speaking from nine four three sixty nine four nine.
I have an emergency call for mister Rick Conney at
five two three one nine two two. The line is
b wide. Just call my house on an emergency. I'm
trying to return the call on an emergency. Will you
please put me through?

Speaker 6 (57:06):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (57:34):
What's it? Fine?

Speaker 8 (57:35):
Right?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
All right? Hm, you called my house. I just now
got in. Your line was busy, so I had the
operator interrupted. Yeah, well, I was just dialing out. I
wasn't talking both.

Speaker 8 (57:45):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
Well, I just wanted to say that I that I
something has come up very important and I've got I'm
on my way to back and Ruge in about ten minutes.
Ye right, can will you make this tomorrow? How did
you like your trip to uh what's the tree point
or lotayote?

Speaker 2 (57:59):
What what you sorry?

Speaker 3 (58:00):
About it.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Oh, my spice told me you took him on a
trip today?

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (58:05):
You got those spies?

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Yeah, yeah, I've I've got to say that by that,
somebody say one way you be.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Back if the back, uh, probably not go in the morning.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Well, don't make me Mickey mouse me around, kid, I
I already got something to say, you know, h I've
I'm not and I I want Have you talked to
Aaron Conn?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
I want you to meet somebody else.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Have you talked to Aaron Conn?

Speaker 5 (58:29):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Yeah, Well I'm not only gonna talk to you.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Now you might be wanting to meet somebody, but they
can wait downstairs in another room.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
Well, I want, I wanna be I don't, I'll pomplish,
but I want to talk to you. I want you
talk to the other party, either act or what happens.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
With you that Well, there's no Mickey Mason.

Speaker 6 (58:47):
Here, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
Well, I've but I had also preferred to yell.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
You don't wanna meet my meet me and my house.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Huh. I I've persu with your wish.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
How you can shake the joint down?

Speaker 1 (58:58):
No?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
No, alright, I'll meet you where right?

Speaker 8 (59:01):
No?

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Right? Now? Where do you wanna meet me. Uh, let's
make it tenderly.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
New, I say tenderly only you said.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
That at now and that's tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (59:11):
Got that new?

Speaker 2 (59:12):
I said right now?

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Oh now?

Speaker 5 (59:15):
Uh I can't.

Speaker 1 (59:16):
Yeah, I got I will say ten minutes, I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Driving out of town, driving out of town, went at
your fly now?

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Alright, So it didn't mean.

Speaker 5 (59:25):
You got huh in this case where I'm got it.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Well, I got a couple of the only go airplanes.
I'll fly where you wanna go out.

Speaker 8 (59:34):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
But I but I want I wanna meet you. I
wanna talk to you, but I wanna.

Speaker 8 (59:38):
Do it on on. Uh.

Speaker 2 (59:41):
Well, who do you want me to meet?

Speaker 8 (59:42):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (59:42):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (59:43):
No, I lined up two 'em. I lined up two
witnesses today for it.

Speaker 5 (59:47):
Share than I talked again?

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, well I figured that's who it was, right, Uh,
I knew he was in town.

Speaker 8 (59:54):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Also, Uh, I lined up I lined up two witnesses
for you. Yeah, and the other guy. I'm when they
have to get a hold of l D.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
See Well at any rate, I I can't see it
at night because there's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
Other thing I'm not making back again. But what about
nine o'clock, eleven o'clock in the morning.

Speaker 5 (01:00:11):
Uh, Walter's got to something set up for eleven as
it stand, That's why I wanted to set it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Well, well, look my house is the clock jack the joint.
You can turn around, you can look it over, and
there's not a bug in a joint.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
I I still I think for everybody is say, uh
in a in a mutual spot and then you know
where we are, all right?

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
In uh church leave expressly burn?

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Is that rough?

Speaker 5 (01:00:34):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (01:00:35):
Your dog?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, I dig I'll meet you at church.

Speaker 5 (01:00:38):
Leaves in It worked, okay, and uh, well let's see
let's make it at noon and the uh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
What about the greens, the good gar I I get mean, well,
mean donal.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
I'll tell you, well, let's not make that's not the
same cause I I wanna make sure Walter is can
the spring, you know, and then he's got the eleven
o'clock things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Yeah, So what I call you kind of about eleven
or so and then we all right, Now I'll be
here at the house. All right, Uh, you call me twice,
hang up and ring back, ring twise, right, I just
ring once and then okay, that's good.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
I will call you. I let I let the phone
ring twise and hang up. I'll call you back then,
all right, I'll call you somewhere around eleven o'clock table.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
All right, okay, No, look, uh, well, the reason I
don't like to meet you up there at the Royal Orleans.
I know two or three outfits that uh, in fact,
uh one of them used to be Sun and Research
used to spike Mike the damn with dolls, walls and
everything else. What we get. I got a radio, I

(01:01:48):
got television. See when I talked to you today. I
turned up the radio tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
I think we got talboy.

Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
All right, right, I'll call you a letter and uh,
well take a place.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
At that well see about five five thirty six o'clock up.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
With Steve it, Oh Steve Clock.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Did I talk to him again?

Speaker 8 (01:02:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Did he tell you?

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
Oh I could talk to well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
I talked to Aaron this morning and I talked to him,
told him what I was gonna do.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Uh, if you're.

Speaker 5 (01:02:21):
Straight, didn't you got at least the tail or something?

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I mean, I just, uh, everybody promises you back me.

Speaker 8 (01:02:27):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:02:28):
W problem?

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Well, I mean, I uh, I got some I mean
other words. I don't wanna be standing out there like
I told you, like I saw it thrumb. You know, well,
I don't know if I gotta make up, if I
gotta make a bond, if I got I need a lawyer.

Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
I I got it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
You know, I had to talk to some people be
sure I had a little you know, somebody gonna I'm
I'm not gonna stand out there by Jack Martin.

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
Yeah, well, uh we talk about all that lot, but
uh doesn't call you about letter or set?

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Please at that point, how would you r how would
you like to read the scream hop start?

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Well? Uh, there is a hope that I'd like to
stream hope you is?

Speaker 5 (01:03:07):
I like you laugh about that?

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Yeah, I just whine a little.

Speaker 3 (01:03:13):
Okay, So we will talk to you tomorrow.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
I'll call you at eleven o'clock.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Well, I don't wanna talk.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
In your car.

Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
I don't know none of that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
And uh if I go to a restaurant and you're
a choice, how do I know?

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
How do I know it's not another Jamaican is?

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Believe me?

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
We will pick a place that uh that everybody was
used alright, I don't know. I know half a dozen
joints in time at their bug Uh up the stock Yeah,
I talk about the wall drug.

Speaker 5 (01:03:46):
Well, oh yeah, well, well the time I think you
decide that at the point and that everybody uh and everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Shows there is still about it, alright, I Waller Sharton's
gonna pick up the uh the meat time?

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
Huh uh?

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Were is he gonna buy lunch?

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Hell?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Go, alright, we'll flip for the check. We'll flip for
the check as long as somebody else pays for it.
I don't care, all right, okay, okay, all right, bye bye,

(01:04:33):
seven thirty in the evening beast call was uh from
mister or two rich mister Ricktowney in replight of a call,
and he made to my wife. She took the number
five two three one nine ninth one nine two to

(01:04:55):
Thursday evening made the twenty fifth.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Nineteen sixty seven.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Or take one. Yeah, you will receive it?

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Is it shortly?

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Okay?

Speaker 8 (01:05:16):
Uh?

Speaker 10 (01:05:16):
I think the fate of the man. And he said
that he would check and see what the hell and
holding things up? Well, what if we wire me for
some somebody's gonna help to follow me in the car
to pick it up because it won't gebrate, that's right,
and then may you not to take it? That would
be a telephone oh, how did guys, Uh mister that

(01:05:46):
part mister Rick Toney in the news room that uh,
mister Rick Tarli please.

Speaker 5 (01:06:06):
Saw an him. We don't know when he was big after?

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Could I take a bag? It was pless to contact me?

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
Hbout whatever about this morning?

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
Yeah, I have a bird room.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Subsequent, Oh, tell her tell him that Jack Bark to call.

Speaker 8 (01:06:27):
Him at my house.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
I couldn't figure up what he use.

Speaker 8 (01:06:30):
I appreciate him.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
He may be on his way at street lights.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Uh, well, he was gonna call me first, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:06:36):
Oh well, I'll send it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
What well he gave me left a number at my
house last night, five two three?

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
What back?

Speaker 5 (01:06:46):
Two two?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Would he be there?

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
That's the count off up?

Speaker 3 (01:06:49):
Alright, I'll try that.

Speaker 8 (01:06:51):
Oh okay, thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:06:56):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
What you see Dublin, it's just ninety two three one
nine two two.

Speaker 6 (01:07:15):
No thrade fivety three one nine one one for sure?
Uh one.

Speaker 5 (01:07:39):
Uh uh.

Speaker 6 (01:08:00):
Uh four uh.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
This last tape, this last uh the station bird to
attempt to reach Rick Towdly and took a t issue
was a successful that was taped for twenty six May
nineteen sixty seven. Writing and approximate leg e eleven ten
in thirty.

Speaker 5 (01:08:38):
So I just uh, you have been tied up in
the meeting a.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Lass for longer about anything?

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
Oh go yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Can't find walk here right now. Sorry.

Speaker 5 (01:08:54):
We had an eleven o'clock appointment and then I've been
a you know, try that study would be tied up
beyond him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
But I we been missing each other more.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Well, those things happened. I I tried to call your
uh office and there was no Uh. Uh you hadn't
been around. They didn't even know what you were back
in town yet.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Subsequently, I took the privilege of asking the lady that
I answered the phone there at the studio or I said,
would he be a persid of number that you gave
me my wife last yet you? Uh No, I wasn't
and uh so she said, well that she's home. I
didn't even know you, and uh I'm not checking you.

Speaker 6 (01:09:34):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
I didn't even bother the look in the book, you know,
So I uh I call that no answer?

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
So I I uh I I had asked her to
call uh just be the ressage.

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
Uh So I ought to be able to get hold
of him.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
Uh the next mark, Well that's alright, look uh thirty ago. Yeah,
that's alright, Uh, I mean half. After all, you've got
a living to make.

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
You well, my schedule living really my own at this point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah, I understand there the other out, I understand that.

Speaker 5 (01:10:04):
So uh, as soon as I can get hold of him,
we'll give you a call and got to get together,
alrighty Uh, it looks like it's yeah, I can't get
hold of him.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
You know why, say eleventh, about twelve fifteen or so.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
I don't wanna hang you up when you're not sleep well,
that's alright. I haven't got a hell of a lot
to do this morning until two or three o'clock anyway,
because my little boy's home.

Speaker 8 (01:10:22):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
The school that I uh yesterday, the the boy attends,
and uh yeah he doesn't. He's gonna go uptown to
meet his mother about two or so, and he don't
go by himself. He's older though, two nut so I'm
I'm I'm free anyway I can uh. Uh is the
extent that uh uh, I'm at your disposal. I'll just
wait till I hear from them.

Speaker 8 (01:10:44):
Alright.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
If it's two o'clock, one turny, it's uh. I it's
one of those things. Uh, you've got problems too, huh right,
I'm not frustrated with Yeah, okay, okay, I think alright,
I I'll be waiting to hear from you know by bye.

Speaker 8 (01:11:05):
Four. Uh the fast trends pitcher once that number prient
eight too, right, number return rida y a front number
thirty nine twenty sixty eight sixty seven.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
I see what do you mean, you broggs? Since con
impossible time is so tight right now, it's just just incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
So why would meet you at?

Speaker 8 (01:11:43):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (01:11:43):
Can you put you right now?

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
You get you get out of the house.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Oh yeah, all I gotta do is put out a shirt.
So it turns out that TV I can hardly hear
the four.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Alright, why don't I meet you at twelve thirty at
a ball games on uh last seventy nine?

Speaker 6 (01:11:58):
Uh well.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Alright, Uh tell you what like your sister A right? Uh,
I'm not particularly hungry anyway. Uh that's a kind of
crowned spot.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Yeah. Well let's say, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
I've beat you over uh Victor's Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
Uh that's kind.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Fix pretty product to in it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:32):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
So, uh, you know I don't wanna I don't I
don't wanna put you there.

Speaker 4 (01:12:36):
You convenience either, Well, that's that matters, may lpen Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
What I have to say? Take two or anyway?

Speaker 5 (01:12:47):
Yeah, Uh, what's there, I'll let's say it this way.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Uh, what do I buy a cat? Pick you up?

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Alright? Uh, that's okay with me. It's uh, that's real cool.

Speaker 5 (01:13:00):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
It'll take me about five minutes to put on a
shirt and a tie. It's all alright.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
By the time I get a cab and get over there,
it's gonna be probbly twenty nine.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
I'll be. I'll take you money or plates.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
By money, alright.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
It's at the corner of Esplanade and North Prayer. Yeah,
and uh, it's uh, there's a Marino cleaning shop right
on the corner. Let's say, let's see it's uh my
nine o'clocks. It's seven after twelve. Now you should be
here a bucks about twelve, about twelve thirty, twelve thirty five. Anyway,

(01:13:33):
So I'll be I'll try to stand out in front
of the joint out there, and you'll see me. I'll
be wearing a black suit as usual, okay, and a
white shirt and uh I'll be buried and wearing su glasses. Okay, alright, okay, alright, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
H that was a hut for me. Don't mean impression.

Speaker 8 (01:14:11):
Under reass made of pass uh uh uh uh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Rick, Rick, i'm'na try to reach you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Matter of fact, I slept a little after Yeah, you're
a bullish bin off the buck right. Uh well, look,
I thought over uh great deal of of what we
spoke of yesterday. And perhaps I'm a little hard asked,
but look, uh you know, way it's a one way
street operation, you know, I mean, uh to the extent

(01:15:13):
that uh, I know you're gonna uh you let me
know you're gonna use uh uh probably the signal service
report and it's uh, you don't leave me much choice.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
I I don't know that at all.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Well, I mean, I mean, I gotta go with you.
But here's here's what I was uh uh you know,
uh the only thing I'm actually hedging for is some
assurance or protection.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Uh uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
And and I think you could appreciate, uh uh the
edgy situation. And I'm an incidentally, if you hear a
noise in the background, that's my para key. He's over there, yap,
and he said off this morning. He's a happy bird.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Uh Oh, I can understand that. Uh. And Uh I think,
uh I you just got.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
To well to tell me. You know here you see,
I've had guys uh over the period of the five five,
last five or six months especially, use a full of
a lot of pressure on me in and I, uh,
being my age fifty three, perhaps I'm a bit paranoiac,
you know, uh the extent that uh I anticipate pressure
when perhaps it isn't there, even more so in a
lot of people. Uh. You tell me you've got a

(01:16:16):
lot of strength, and other people have gone along with
you know. How do I know by the same talking
that you're not using me? Then you might get some
other people. I don't know, you see what I mean.
I mean, Uh, it's a it's a very I've had
some pretty smooth ones pulled on me. Let's face it,
you know. And uh uh I don't know whether you're
talking to mister Sheridan or not. I don't even know

(01:16:37):
whether he's in the city or not.

Speaker 1 (01:16:39):
Right, but uh uh.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Uh, I don't know what he said. That's the material.
But by the text of our conversation yesterday, I've been
I've been up most of the night. I've been doing
a lot of thinking. I lost a little sleep over it,
and uh I figured, well, elly, uh, I either go
with 'em or they they're gonna gonna cut me to pieces,
just as I'm a deciding which way I'm gonna get
crucified here. You know, Oh that is true.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
And I and I don't want to leave you that impression.
Well you know, I don't want you to go on
that base. Well that's about what it a monster. Then
on the less, let's face it, you know, what I
was uh hoping was that perhaps we could get together
and at least uh damn it to if you say,
you've got some good ammunition, you might let me see
some film clips or some damn things. I can't do that.

(01:17:25):
I can't do it. You gonna have to take my
word on that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
Well, let's that's just this. See it's just a it's
a it's a matter of it's a matter of uh
uh the word and then it's a and that's it,
you know. In other words, uh it it leavest.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Me hanging that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Well, I've gone to great extent last night. I've been
going through a lot of my own files and im
and uh I've I've got a whole bunch of stuff
and pulling out documenting, you know, and uh, well that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
Main thing that I wanted, the things I to help
put the thinking that you agree beginning of all this
man of respecting, that's the only you know, the fay
thing that's not gonna require a great deal of anything.
Uh a matter of fact, Uh you know, uh barely

(01:18:25):
my partner. Uh you know everybody if something that that's
uh and known, that's say in in one respecting these
it's known from the standpoint the way the Sick Service
stood out.

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Well, Uh, if you if you read that thing there,
Uh you see, here's the thing if if if you
use that in any respect, that's gonna it's gonna. Uh
it's a it's a wound that's that's healed over parsonally
in the past six months. If you'll reopen that goddamn
think it. Uh believe me as uh. People will not

(01:18:59):
believe that the Secret Service is capable of lying. But
if you have seen these people and seen what happened here,
and could hear what I had at the time, and
there were people in the house besides myself my wife
that heard and saw what went on, and it was

(01:19:19):
not like even Reaches Kennedy or what rice or parrots
said at all, that wasn't the way it happened. They
brought up the telephone ass and I said, I told Regis,
I said, you said it.

Speaker 5 (01:19:31):
I did not.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Those are not my words. I do not deny anything.
And I said, well, look I can see right now
we're not getting anywhere. And I opened the door and
they left, and as I'm standing up by the car,
and I closed the door and told him again, and
they drove off, and damn burd set up. Anyway, I

(01:19:53):
give him some let us up there in his cage,
and he's man, he's having him falling many other parts.
He hears him out the open door and or off
the balcony, fucking back to him. I guess, well, anyway,
the deal is that uh uh, my wife and kid
will be on this appen. And I got some newspaper
stuff and some other things here though, boys going to

(01:20:14):
a party, school teachers having for him, and I, uh,
I didn't know any uh. I'll show you what I
got if you wanted to say it, and uh, I would,
I would. I would like to. I would like to
know some samplers of what In other words, I want
to I want, I want assurance in my mind. I'm
looking for peace of mind. Rick, that goddamn it that

(01:20:35):
uh uh, I'm not the only guy you're gonna have
up there, and uh and you're gonna persecute the ship
out of him, you know. I I hate to say that,
I I've got a persecution complex, but I have, and
I got good reason to have one. You know, well,
Merriman Smith, Merriman's Merriman Smith did a damn good job
on me. You must admit that. And I've been I've

(01:20:56):
been bit once and uh I'm in butchered once in uh,
I just take my held to see this thing happen again,
cause I've I've already, I've I've I've I've almost lived
on what has happened, you see, and do.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Maybe be the best thing is just to avoid it.

Speaker 6 (01:21:12):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:12):
I can't tell you, I know, but if you go
ahead and use it over again in my absence, it's
gonna make it. It's the record's gonna stand as it is.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Well. I I can't say that we're gonna use it.
I really don't know, uh, I I don't know what
you know, whether it's uh important to to even bring
it up, except that I think put the.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Whole thing in perspective, we might well. I found a
copy of it. I found a copy of a singular
copy of the old original Ferry article. Uh that uh,
where he was originally arrested. It has the hypnosis, the
guns and everything else hit it. Yeah, and all I
did was call that to their attention. Of course they

(01:21:56):
ignored and magnified this and put the words in my mouth.
All I did just quote an article to him, you know.
In other words, they quoted me as saying that I
hypo that I said, very hypnotized. I I did not
say this.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
I said that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:08):
Uh uh they uh, I was just quoting the article
or they said he'd done with these juveniles, which I
have a regular uh uh a four stant copy of
that article. And also went where he threatened this boy
with the Cubans you see. But uh, you leave me
if you guys, leave me a little choice. And I
know I know this guy, Sharon can't.

Speaker 8 (01:22:27):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
He's probably pretty as uh as death as uh, even
more so than maybe Marilyn Smith. You know, I I'm
not I'm not trying.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
To leave the pressure though I don't know what they
felt me, So don't don't think you were trying to
use a hammer on it. You know, well, I don't
want to come along on that basis.

Speaker 2 (01:22:47):
You know, you the get the gunning because they well
you got you guys got me sweating. I'll put it
like that. You know, well a lot of people. But
I would, I would like to. I would if if
I'm if I'm allied with other people in something. Huh,
I don't everything in the operator company or something I
have that happened all the time. These idiots see my.

Speaker 1 (01:23:09):
Phone off of that to sleep one night, Yeah, I
probably get locked off.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Yeah, uh, I had to check this morning. When I
try to call you a buddy's clocked Knight. Well, the
only thing is rick that I uh. I mean, I mean,
if I have other people allied with me, I would
like to. I would like to. I don't give a
damn who the people are, you understand, I mean, it's
just the idea that I like to. I like to
have some assurance that I'm not going to stand out

(01:23:36):
there all by myself.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
But h I hope you don't think we do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
No, But I have seen guys w when gathering news,
Fella turn around and then they'll get they'll they'll head
you around and they'll finally get one guy nailed down, say,
and then they'll turn around and they'll they'll bring other
people in and they'll say, well, I've already got so
and so, and I'll predicate it on that guy. Well,
then they get others.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
See.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
I mean, I've seen all kinds of deals made too.
You know, I'm not saying you're doing this, but.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Frankly you uh, I don't know of anybody that if
we could use you as amazing as for getting to
come on the film. I mean cause it's where rather
after a different uh uh element of the story totally
unrelated to you or the sixty three things or anything
else most of 'em. And and uh, you just have
to take my word. And it's a I I give

(01:24:27):
you my word. It's all uh, it's all there, but
it's uh, I'm not gonna tell you what it is.
I just can't afford to think that now, my.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
Buck go, why do what? I don't I don't think
you're I don't think your phone's buck is. I had
mind checked by repair service this morning. There's a number
you can call in it'll t do and and you
there's a three nine nine three three five five, that's
the phone company. And you ask for the test board
for your exchange, like you got five uh two three exchange.

(01:24:57):
You ask for the test board for that exchange. And
he asked the man to check your line, and they'll
tell you how many condensers. You tell him how many
instruments you have at the house, save you have one
or two telephones at the house. You tell them how
many phones you have at the house, and they'll tell
you how many phones are on that line, and that
the only about the only way they can hitch your
phone is a hardware tapping it would show say, so

(01:25:20):
I have mind cleared. Every morning at seven o'clock, that
testboard opens up. You call that number and you talk
to the man on the test board. That's what you
ask for the test board, give him your exchange, and
ask for the man on the test board for that exchange,
and have him check your line. He called you hang
up for just a second, and he calls you right back,
and he tells you how many instruments are on the line.
So I do that every morning at seven o'clock, and

(01:25:42):
I do it again about ten. So I constantly check
and in the morning they don't usually do that. They
usually monitor. They're going to monitor in the evening. That's
when you got to watch them, and especially late at
night because that's when there's nobody on the testboard after
ten in the evening. So they're gonna pull the you
caame re they do it then? Uh anyway, hm, well

(01:26:07):
my u uh uh.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
The only thing I ain't I can say, Jack is.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Uh, it'sident the phone company is not gonna play your
ball with Garson. I happen to know that anybody's gonna
monitor its the FBI, and they canna sty gonna do things.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
The h only thing I can say is that I
don't give the opportunity and to explain that uh sixty
three business. And I think you, I think you do
it better than anybody.

Speaker 5 (01:26:33):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:33):
I think we can put it in perspective, and I as.

Speaker 2 (01:26:36):
All I want company. I don't wanna go into all
this other stuff. Well you see, then then it's a
round of fifth.

Speaker 1 (01:26:41):
I told you I was. I was one of the
initial people we talked to start come in a little bit.
I mean, but you I actually haven't had that much
except maybe feet stuff back to then to other people. Yeah,
I have probably had that much steward just.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
To well, I haven't. I I haven't fed anything or
anything to them. Sy I've talked to some people that
might have been connected with him. They might have fed
it in. But UH believe me, Uh, I thought to
Bamba on people like that or help Ombla. He runs
hot and cold. Sometimes you like people, sometimes he doesn't.
I don't think Bomba is anything. Baba comes in my
house and Bamba has been in here for yeah, but

(01:27:16):
five five thousand times. But basically you haven't taken him
with partner say oh no, oh, no, shut no, I'm
not gonna I don't want to. Well that's that's to be.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
I don't know one I can argue because I I can't.
I I'm not gonna tell you or anybody else exactly
what would God.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
That would be foolish. No, I wouldn't ask you exactly
what you mean. If I can see some smattering of
some of the damned clips. I know you told me
the other day you've got guys in jail suffering this
thing out with Jesus. I mean, uh, then you tell
me that you'll stand behind me, the network will stand
behind me. But yet again I got no assurance to that.
I mean I like to see I like to know
something that I'm not alone. That's all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Well, you're gonna take it. Take the word on that
obviously around number and that'll make the better. Yeah, a
lot twenty people.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Jesus, he got a better buddy. They talked to uh
just shot just about it, good lord about it. Well,
I I ain't had I had one guy tell me
that I don't think you've ever interviewed or anybody else,
did it? Uh uh he he got uh lean on

(01:28:25):
a little bit and so on and so forth. Of
course I didn't take what he had to say too
too strongly. Uh by the way brownly did he is
not one of those Well, no, I mean I don't.
I told you yesterday you mentioned his name. I uh,
you mentioned his name yesterday, and I said, well, I
hadn't seen that guy but once or twice, and uh

(01:28:45):
uh that uh uh shit, you got nothing anyway, and
all that bunch his bunch of ex convicts you know
you're playing. I have you if you use any of
that stuff, well you the you and you and that
very much. I don't think I don't know. I don't
think he knows anything or he has sold it to
somebody a long time ago.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
He's got a way street up a broad Huh the
dout about like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
I know, I don't know about that, but I uh
uh only one thing he might have is some of
various papers or something.

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
You can't tell.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
He was pretty close to Ferry, but uh, I, I
know he's scared of that. He's definitely afraid of Garrison,
and he's he's more afraid of federal people than everybody else.
He's scared. He's scared, period. He's scared of me. He's
the uh. I sent him once in a car and
he just took off like a stripe and I was
eight down the street and uh, this other cat that

(01:29:41):
runs with him, I i've h I've I've seen him
one time. I think with Brownlee a long time ago,
so I've spent several months ago. He was a uh,
I was a uh hotel and I was sitting drink
of coffee with a guy and Brownley came by with
this guy and Brownley said hello. And the minute he
met this other man, he took off a cent in

(01:30:01):
a lieutenant suit.

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:30:05):
Let's see.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
Well, look, I'm gonna leave it up to you if
you wanna go on, Uh look see see talk to
the man and see what kind of I mean, see
if you see, if you'll give me any assurance at all?
Is something even verbal, some kind of uh assurance? And
uh god damn it. Uh you could give you a
verbal assurance that I'll give you with him, I know,
but he's a easy easy if you're sitting down't limb
uh m more were gon't leave anybody else on it? Well,

(01:30:31):
you see, yours job for the interests of the people
who cooperate with us, we got to where we're obligated
once we want to bring him into the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:30:40):
Uh you know, you you y you can't. You can't
go into something like this with the realization that the
the people that you're dealing with could get uh roughed
up without uh without the feeling of sense responsibility to him. Okay,
it's hard to spell it out because uh you don't
know why anything the other uh other side than might

(01:31:02):
have none you know, that's right. Well, you can't really
uh you can't really say, Look, I can promise you
this because uh this might be the least useful thing.

Speaker 2 (01:31:12):
A wrong you know, Yeah, but I might say something
through that whole thing that might tie up with something else,
and you would give you one of the best cases
you ever had to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
Now now, I I don't think, but not not the
case that we got, not the case that you uh
understand all but uh youah yeah, I think you would.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
You know well in other words about uh uh once
you got me in, you're obligated that uh uh you
might do something for me after that. But I can
understand until I move. You're not uncertain too, You're it's
in other words, we're looking at each other. Is kind
of a Mexican stand offer.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
Well, the the only thing that uh, the the the ma,
the basic protection that you gonna have is is the
real Number one is is being in the in the
crowd that did the job instead of uh uh I
mean no, I don't mean that they did the job
and start, but in the in the crowd, it's involved
in the things instead of uh standing out uh by

(01:32:14):
yourself and uh and they have the uh the realization
that uh that we after we do this thing, uh
are going to are going to keep an eye on
everybody that's that's stuck in that kind of to make
God damn sure nobody trying.

Speaker 8 (01:32:31):
To you know that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Let's let's that I'll tell you that's that's pretty silent.
Uh you you give me some uh we bit a
light there anyway you make sure that nobody's gonna lead
on the people.

Speaker 1 (01:32:44):
Uh hm, well, you know as much as you can
you can, as there are ways of person that mean
but uh yeah, but I mean you know we're we're
definitely not just gonna turn around and say, well.

Speaker 2 (01:32:53):
You mean it too, I right, I right, criminal and
general prosecution. You're not gonna hold still for it a
persecution that uh certainly not certainly not well look, uh
do you think that uh mister Sheridan would praise me
of this and uh and uh give me a call
and just give me some kind of an appraisal on this,
and I'll pack my little stuff up and the uh

(01:33:16):
scentual come down and see uh uh you have to go. Yeah,
I give him a call. And if you'll give me
so much to ye if you say to you that
that uh, if you cooperate with us, where we're going
to uh keep our eye opera any.

Speaker 1 (01:33:33):
The sign that they're kind of persecutor uh propertecute you
and they that uh I part with that and that Uh,
We're going to make every effort, not only you, but
everybody out to co operate with us to make sure
that that happens. That's and I think it's fair enough.

Speaker 2 (01:33:50):
Weither come back and Lord of boom on 'em. Well
that's uh, that's I mean, I I's that's that's the
only thing I wanna.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Be assured of it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:57):
Uh, Uh, I said, really hope. Uh he's probably not
up yet either. I don't know. Five maybe all right,
Well if he give me a crouse some time to
day and kind of assure me of that interview.

Speaker 3 (01:34:10):
But I'm not here.

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
I'll be right back. It's because I've had to go
down to get a cigarettes or something, you know. And uh,
but uh, I'll be around the house all day that
my wife and child would be for a little while.
But if you'll call me and just a I appreciate it. Okay, okay,
lot my dog all right there, all right, take care

(01:34:31):
of you. Sorry?

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
Why about.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
And the text conversation with Rick tom Lee approximately time
thirty ten twenty five on Saturday morning, May at twenty seven,
nineteen six fifty seven. Perkment emphas or extortion and Investigations right,

(01:35:04):
the wed the issue. Have you seen.

Speaker 6 (01:35:11):
Muh uh.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
Uh uh.

Speaker 6 (01:35:32):
Uh uh uh uh uh uh.

Speaker 2 (01:36:03):
Parking lot uh stick parking boys. Man, you don't love
the len holl uh yes, ma'am, my dad call Martin.

Speaker 6 (01:36:12):
Oh say.

Speaker 3 (01:36:14):
Yes, you get Jack.

Speaker 2 (01:36:17):
Hold on a minute, alright, Jack, looks Dave. I just
got through talking to Rick timely. I had lunch with
him yesterday, you know, uh huh and uh he tells
me that uh uh they couldn't know anything for me, financine,
listen to the other thing. Uh cash uh they take

(01:36:38):
care of me and protect me and all that share.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
I go along with him. You know, wait, I don't how.

Speaker 2 (01:36:42):
Did he They said they protect me, give me protection,
you know, they won't let anybody persecute me and all that.
And uh so, I mean I talked with him a
while ago, many you're not leave me much choice. You're
gonna use the secret service thing, and he he kind
of backed off that. But when I spoke to him
in person, I guess he figures I'm taping him some
goddamn thing. I don't even have the equipment for that crap,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:37:03):
But anyway, the.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Deal is that uh uh he uh. He had told
me the other day that it uh uh they're gonna
use me anyway, you know. So it's a matter I
had no choice in the matter at all. I when
I spota ad last with him, and uh uh uh,
I don't even know whether this guy's sharing is in town.
He he was sharing its supposed to be with him

(01:37:24):
the other day and that didn't show up. And uh
so it's was a pretty nasty deal where I was
put in the position I either go along or they
uh they either gonna crucify me, or I could uh
die die a nice quick that you know. Well, either
that or I could uh uh sar peddled the deal.
I don't know whether you have any connection with these

(01:37:45):
guys or not. I'm not asking you that, sty but
my god, uh uh I told him this. I said,
I like some assurance that I'm gonna have some kind
of protection, you know. And I said, uh uh when
I spoke to him yesterday, and I said, you'd take
some hundred dollar bills and cut him in half and
give me, I mean a whole half of 'em went
after our produce. Will give me to go a half,
you know, yeah, by something else, so I know I

(01:38:05):
can make fine or protect myself in some way, and
uh he said, well it doesn't matter. Was a thousand
or five thousand dollars, they couldn't go that to rob.

Speaker 5 (01:38:14):
Uh well, I don't think anybody's just say anyway no,
but I mean uh.

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
Uh a, hell, I know, goddamn well, I uh they're
protecting other people and they're taking care of 'em, you know.
So so he he let me know, uh this morning
when I spoke with him on the phone, that uh
they would definitely uh assure me the fact that once
I went, they would take uh give me protection anyway.
But you don't think I think you're to stay out
as that you know, I'll be.

Speaker 5 (01:38:40):
Your Yeah, you look like you was very sad.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
Yeah, well I don't mind going along with fighting.

Speaker 5 (01:38:47):
I'd know, but I I want to have a hut
jacket's such a bad thing, such a bad as it,
what little you know about it?

Speaker 2 (01:38:53):
All you can get caught is ye, you'd be surprised.
To you, you'd be surprised. Only nobody damning well.

Speaker 3 (01:38:59):
Well no more well wonderful.

Speaker 5 (01:39:01):
Uh I wish I knew less.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
Ruh I do too.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
Finally, uh.

Speaker 2 (01:39:06):
Uh I would definitely I liked him my main aima,
but I'm afraid that. Uh, well, give you a probation gear,
is it? Oh shit, he ain't gonna do nothing for me.

Speaker 7 (01:39:15):
You know, Well you can't go around you you look,
are you gonna go around for peddling the I'm not
trying to pull nothing, suh.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
Well, Rick Rick Tonney first ed planer tried to reach me,
and then Rick Donney tried to reach me, not only
uh directly, but through other people and everything else over. Uh,
he's made five or six calls to me, maybe ten
all told. Uh he's uh tried to approach me through
other people, which he succeeded in doing. And he's been
pretty persistent about the thing. So I I I perhaps

(01:39:43):
I attached too much importance to his persistence, but yeah,
none wasn't They got longest callf ho fell on the
other line. Oh god, Uh well, look if you see
Sharon and if sharonan would assure me a protection of
one thing and another himself.

Speaker 5 (01:39:57):
Oh, I'm not talking to Sharon. Uh, he hadn't called me,
and I'm not gonna call him.

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
Well, do you happen to see Rick will talk for me?

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
Anyway?

Speaker 5 (01:40:07):
I'll I'll give you a nice rotten build up.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
Okay, let me rune a nice rotten build up.

Speaker 1 (01:40:12):
I did a nice build up.

Speaker 2 (01:40:13):
Well, I'd appreciate it. All I want is is protection.
I said, if you just showed me was He says
about twenty other people have got along with him, and
I said, oh, show me a film clipper too. I'm
not even kind of interested in the identity of the people.
I just want to see that I'm not standing out
there like a people and always did. That's all, okay,
Seli Jack okay man, thanks bye bye. In the transcript,

(01:40:42):
conversation to Stephen S. Plotkin, attorney, approximate we live in
forty or I make it find a race of race
ten forty Uh in the morning, May twenty seventh, nineteen
sixty seven. So uh nbcwd SU a starship investigation. Well

(01:41:10):
the sad Oh yeah, yeah, I was waiting to know.
I was asleep for a h I just fell right,
and I always up for a fine.

Speaker 8 (01:41:20):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:41:21):
I get the trick time I talked to yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
Young Uh you know, uh No, I've I've uh was
assured enough. I've been double with by both sides stup
and I'm yeah now and I've been I'm afraid to
deal with time tom or anybody fa get hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:41:43):
Yeah, you know you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
Gotta on one side, you got dropped by fresh. On
the other side you got troup ony d A and
uh you don't want 'em in the court room half
the time, you know? And uh I think you follow
what I'm saying at your rounding. Yeah, there's a lot
of I tried to expected this, explain the wrecktors a

(01:42:08):
lot of ways. This guy rouse, She's got a lot
of friends. But about we're getting you involved in court?
Not when you want to type him? I hard to
care about. Get together?

Speaker 3 (01:42:19):
Uh happened at uh uh coffee?

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Huh do you wanna talk?

Speaker 1 (01:42:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
Yeah, yeah, Uh wanta get to gold you right now?

Speaker 8 (01:42:31):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:42:31):
How about what time is that?

Speaker 8 (01:42:34):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:42:35):
We got twenty twenty, after twenty five, after twos, you know,
after one after you know about about two five? All right?

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:42:45):
Where uh.

Speaker 2 (01:42:48):
Where you at now?

Speaker 8 (01:42:50):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:42:52):
I'm at the rail I leave right now. But I
uh it's funny you're not Rochester. Do I thleet that
were there when they couldn't reach through? Uh rick this morning,
I was in the car. Well, No, I'm not read
to be there ever.

Speaker 3 (01:43:04):
Again, I'm laugh.

Speaker 2 (01:43:05):
Oh uh that's good. Uh, I was see I I
was kind of disturbed. I figured Rick's fall, was I or.

Speaker 5 (01:43:17):
Oh really?

Speaker 2 (01:43:18):
Yeah? So uh I have to find about ye, but
there's been so much shit came before, and I didn't
want it if I maybe I'm figured I didn't know you.

Speaker 1 (01:43:30):
Uh, I wouldn't know you from that, Okay, but uh.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
Uh i's not that I don't trust break It isn't
he said?

Speaker 5 (01:43:38):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:43:38):
When I was able to find out about that boy
as an individually, since he's work here was all very good,
actual doll, he seems like a break cut anyway. I
don't think he's as treacherous as I've been in the name.
That's hope that he's not too about uh uh Huh

(01:44:00):
tell you what. I could throw a shirt on fur slacks,
a meet out of town, or I catch a bus
that goes right by the house, uh and a shot
that'll real across the diner if something has to ever
wake me away.

Speaker 7 (01:44:13):
Okay, well you know where the uh you know the
park across from the uh cathedral or the paint Peter's
Church there?

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Meat, Uh what your secrets? UH got 'em in the
cathedral place? Peter that uh in Saint Louis. Yeah, after
the Saint Louis's Uh let's see, let's sell it, right, Yeah,
they raised it to her. It's done on my uh
landmark too.

Speaker 1 (01:44:38):
Uh yeh uh tell you.

Speaker 8 (01:44:41):
What's the shirt at all?

Speaker 2 (01:44:43):
H it works out? I, I mean you're eight there?
Uh were they interested?

Speaker 7 (01:44:47):
You enter to the parak right across.

Speaker 1 (01:44:49):
From the church? Al right? Okay?

Speaker 3 (01:44:51):
Uh, how you drive two o'clock?

Speaker 8 (01:44:53):
Uh?

Speaker 7 (01:44:56):
I was just gonna go back and banana sports shirt.
I yeah, I'll be dressed in a blue short Cleeves
Porchard blue pant.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
Alright, well, I uh burn black slacks and probably just
a white shirt. Cufas no time force.

Speaker 8 (01:45:19):
Haven't think you did anything that would cap I.

Speaker 3 (01:45:22):
Get a photo asking at all? Could ass coffee?

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Say, no chance of any tape and uh any of that?
Uh make a visions cater issue.

Speaker 7 (01:45:31):
Okay, I'll be uh, I'll be.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Day alrighty money funny allay?

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
Uhbou my as car was born for sharing it for
sh sharing an.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Investigation, I mean the uh THEBC extortion investigation. Uh approximately
two twenty twenty seventh of May nineteen sixty three, approximately
two twenty done two twenty to twenty five, after