December 1, 2025 • 43 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
My name is Mitchell Woodington, and I'm really really happy
today to be sitting next to my friend John Crrington.
We're going to talk a little bit about hl Hunt
and his possible connections to the death of John F. Kennedy,
Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, and Jimmy Haifa.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And it's really a pleasure John to be sitting here.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And you know, when we were writing this book, we
were meeting about once a week at the Catfish Place,
and so I got to see every week and talk
to you and visit, and we hadn't got to do
that in a while, so this will be really special
for me. I do want to tell everybody that I
think the thing that first caught my attention when John
Ferry first called me was the fact that there was
(01:00):
one person, mister Hunt, hl Hunt, that had ties to
all four of these murders. And John, I don't think
I've ever seen one person tied to all.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Four of these have you? No? I have not.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Now I haven't either, So that just makes your story
incredible to me. And in fact, it's not just that,
but also the fact that you live this. I mean,
this was your job and I'm looking forward to hearing
some of your comments on that.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
As we go through today. I'm looking forward to it all.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, just to get started before we I've made some
notes to have some questions to ask you to kind
of keep myself on track, But just to get started,
how did you come to be the right hand man
to HL Hunt? Now, I'm sure he didn't put ad
in the paper saying I need somebody that's my most
trusted employee and I can trust with anything.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
How did you get to that position?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Well, first question has disappointed me. I don't have an
answer for it. I started to work for Hunt Oil
Company in the nineteen fifty three fifty four time period,
and after being there two or three years, I just
was some recalled in mister Hunt's office and I wasn't
(02:21):
asked if I wanted to work up there. I was
directed to work up there. And I don't have an
answer to your question, but I did. I had done
some special works for his son, Herbert Bunker, and I
think they told their dad that I had a reputation
of getting things done, and mister Hunt relaid upon their
(02:42):
relied upon their recommendations, and that's how became associated with him.
But nothing in my background would have suggested that I
would have ended up in that position there.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
But your office was directly next to him.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
This we had adjoin an off season, and we normally
door was always open. Mister Hunt his dish was an
old tiiny dish, probably forty five or fifty years old,
but he had a small buzzer on it. Anytime he
warned me, he punched the buzzer and I was there
(03:16):
within three seconds.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
There after the buzzer was appointed there. Wow, So not
much went on up there that you didn't know about.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I believe that I was privileged to ninety eight percent
of all of mister Hunk's activities involving other people or
involving his political beliefs, and his interest in his business
and his business impar Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Well, I'd like to kind of start out by going
into some.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Of that knowledge you have about his business and him
by talking about John F.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Kennedy. John Fitzgerald Kennedy, When did you first meet JFK.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Miss Hunt and I went to the Democratic Convention in
Los Angeles in nineteen sixty. The convention was taken over
pretty well by the Kennedy family of John Fitzgerald Kennedy
was there, His father, Joe Kennedy was there, and his
brother Balby was there.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Joe Kennedy was by.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Far the most active and the most aggressive man at
the convention. John Fitzgerald kept a low profile of this
Hunt I were exposed during AIM or a very short
period of time, over a limited period of time, but
most all of Miss Hunt's contacts was through Joe Kennedy
and brother Baldy Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
What role did mister hot play in the convention itself?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Mister Hunt went to the.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Convention with the idea that Linda Johnson was going to
be elected selected for the president's denomination, not JFK but Johnson.
Johnson's closest ally in Washington was Sam Rayburn, who was
the most.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Powerful political man in Washington at that time.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
But after we were at when I say we had talked,
Miss Hunt and I were at the convention, probably twenty
four thirty six hours, it became obvious to almost ever
won except LBJ, that Kennedy's were in and Lindon Johnson
was out. And Lyndon just could not accept the fact
that his reputation as a good politician and his knowledge
(05:35):
of the government was putting.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Him in that back seat position there. Wow, well, how
did Hunt get him on the ticket and get that
ticket elected?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I think mister Hunt had more influence with Lyndon Johnson
than any other person on getting Johnson to accept the
second spot. For one, that Kennedy didn't like Johnson and
Johnson didn't like to Kennedy. But mister Hunt was able to,
in a what I call a soft sale presentation, convinced
(06:14):
Lindon that the only way he would ever become president
when he had to take the second spot. Then, for
reasons unknown at that time, John Fisterer of Kennedy would
leave office under some kind of a circumstance and Johnson
would step into that position. So that's what Hunt believes, yes,
(06:37):
and that's the belief he conveyed to Lendren Johnson.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
There.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Interesting, Okay, Well they did get elected obviously, and mister
Hunt was still involved, I guess behind the scenes with.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Talking to LBJ on a regular basis. I mean, one
of the.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Things that interested me when I first started talking to
you was we'd be sitting across from each other at
the Catfish Place, and I would think, here's a man
that could pick up the phone and get LBJ. On
the other end, you know, here's a man that actually
talked to presidents of the United States and you don't
know many people like that, or I don't, so that
was interesting. But I assume that you and mister Hunt
(07:16):
continued that relationship with LBJ.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Well, mister Hunt's political decisions, although he had a reputation
of being on what I would call a right side,
very constructive of political belief there when it got right
down to the nitty gritty, he normally backed his support
as to the person who could do him the most
(07:41):
good from a monetary or business standpoint, and it was
mister Hunt's belief that Linda Johnson would be an effective president,
but more important than Johnson would listen to any suggestion
or recommendation that mister Johnes that mister Hunt wanted to make,
and that was his primary reason for the support there.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I know that there was something at the time that
came up about a sermon by doctor Criswell, who was
the pastor of the First Baptist Church.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Can you tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Back in nineteen sixty at after Johnson and Kennedy to
brawl in the ticket mister Hunt came up with what
I consider a very unique idea. He wanted doctor W. A.
Creswell to deliver a sermon on Sunday morning from the
(08:40):
polpit of the First Baptist Church in Dallas that would
denounce the Roman Catholic Church and two would renounce Bobby
Kennedy as a Catholic running for office. Now, mister Hunt's
theory was that this sermon would unite the Catholics against
(09:04):
the opposition, and to the sermon would uh the pastors
that would receive this sermon. The next before I met
the next torment mister Hunt was, we had the sermon reproduced.
I carried the message to New York and had it
(09:24):
duprecated and mailed to two hundred thousand Protestant ministers in
the United States.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
WO.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So it was mister Hunt's theory that this message would
unite the Catholics, but the two hundred thousand Protestant ministers
that received a copy of the message, they in turn
would denounce Krizmle for making that speech from the pulpit.
And then therefore he felt like he had a double
(09:51):
edged sword. And the sermon did turn out just as
mister Hunt had projected. He and I were subject to
being subpoenaed to appear before a House investigative committee. We
were interviewed by the three different FBI agents, three agents
(10:13):
at the same time. He and I disappeared for about
a four month period of time where we had to
avoid being arrested. The sermon violated a federal law which
in effects states that if you write an article against
(10:35):
someone running for president, you have to identify yourself as
a sender of that article. And although I said it,
I did not identify myself, and thus I violated a
federal law. And the first FBI agent that talked to
me told me that I was looking at a two
hundred and twenty five thousand count indictment. That sort of
(10:58):
encouraged me to disappear for period of time.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Hopefully the statute of limitations has passed time. I hope
it has.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, that's a pretty complex plan, but I guess that
shows the thought process of mister Hunt and how he
had everything that he was working behind the scenes.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Well, let me get a part of me interrupting you there.
But at the same time that I mailed that mail
into the Protestant ministers, I had about twenty twenty five
young ladies working for me, and we wrote a very
complimentary piece for Lyndon Johnson, and we went to the
(11:38):
public library and made a coffee of that and mailed
a coffee of the Lyndon Johnson pro article to every
person in a telephone directory that had the name Johnson.
And at that time I was working with over six
hundred radio stations and more in our Lifeline program, and
(12:02):
I had those radio stations located in six hundred different
cities to send me telephone books from those cities.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So we were.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Denouncing Bobby jack John Fifter of Kennedy on one hand,
but complimenting Johnson on the other hand. And mister Hunt
Singer handled it. Took credit, I think for John Fister
of Kennedy or Linder Johnson.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Being elected there.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So I guess at some point he kind of lost
faith in that combination of the president and vice president
what happened there.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Mister Hunt believed that Linda Johnson was a much smarter
politician than President Kennedy, that Johnson could control Kennedy, and
although he was in the second spot, by his political skills,
he was able to accomplish anything that needed to be done.
(12:58):
But it became obvious over a period of time that
Johnson was losing his power and Bobby Kennedy and John
Fitzgerald Kennedy was gaining power. And miss Hunt always contributed
Bobby's skills a little bit more than John Fitzgerald's there
But anyway, it became obvious to mister Hunt that Johnson
(13:21):
was going to be dropped from the ticket in nineteen
sixty four, and therefore, in all probability, Bobby Kennedy would
have also had Johnson indicted along with his bag man
total name Bobby Baker. So it became obvious to mister
Hunt in the latter part of nineteen sixty three or
(13:42):
three sixty three that to protect his empire that fitz
John Fitzgerald Kennedy had to be removed from Wolfish.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, we know what happened there after he was shot,
after President Kennedy was shot. But was there any relationship
that you saw between mister Hunt and Lee Harvey Oswald
or the Osweal family.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Or mister Hunt in his own personal belief, believed that
in the initial beginning that Lee Harvey Oswall had made
the move that he did based upon derogatory comments that
mister Hunt's radio program Wifline had had expanded against John
Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So mister Hunt, so that's all the anti Kennedy things
that he had been doing the George is talking about.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Okay, that makes sense, yea.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So mister Hunt believed that if Lee Harvey Oswald ever
went to trial, had ever testified, that he would tie
mister Hunt into his anti Kennedy program and therefore would
be a very critical situation for him. And in fact,
(14:58):
Miss Trump believed that he himself coul be indicted based
upon Lee Harvey Oswald testimony. So on a Saturday afternoon,
the four thirty five o'clock, Miss Hunt called me, asked
me to go down to the Dallas Police Department checked
the security that was going on around Lee Harvey Oswall.
(15:19):
I did go down to the police department. I did,
just coincidental. I got on the same elevator with Captain
Will French and Lee Harvey Oswall. Captain real Friends was
a good friend of mister Hunt's, was a friend of mine.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
He introduced me to Oswald.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Uh. We made no exchange of any words there. We
just looked at each other. But Miss Hunt wanted a
security check around Lee Harvey Oswall and then I was
to report back to him regardless of the time of
night it might be.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And I finally left the Dallas Police a.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Parting about one thirty two o'clock on a Sunday morning there.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And he reported back to him.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I had instruction to report to Miss Hunt back in
person to his house on a loss of drive there
in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
At that time. He asked me if I would go
to Josephlle old.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
House, who was head of the mafia for the southern
part of the United States, and see if Savella would
come over to Mount Vernon that was miss hunt home,
and which idea went to Savelle old House about two
thirty on a Sunday morning, got him up out of bed.
He agreed to go to Miss Hunch House. I think
(16:40):
he got over there about seven o'clock. About eleven o'clock,
Lee hall All was shot by Jock Ruby. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
So that's uh, that's very interesting. Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
You know, we could go in and on it about
the ties between mister Hunt and Kennedy and the assassination,
but I think that folks are also want to be
interested in the aspect of Martin Luther King and mister
Hunt you had mentioned.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Earlier about Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Could you tell us a little bit about that, because
I know that that was kind of played into the
whole Martin Luther King story.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Lifeline was a program that was written and produced and
distributed by H. L. Hunt, a personal cost of him
of several thousand dollars a day a day. We bought
all the radio time or over six hundred radio stations.
We had offices in Washington, We had commentators, writers, attorneys,
(17:43):
their office and dollars for the Lifeline program. It was
a six day a week, fifteen minute what I call
a pro American program, and it was dedicated to hopefully
would influm people to cast the vote that Miss Hunt
thought was would be better for the American people.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Was Martin Luther King ever the subject of.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
This Lifeline Really I believe that in looking backwards, that
Martin Luther King probably had more derogatory Lifeline program than
any other person there.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And Jaeger Hoover and Miss Hunt was in contact on
a not on a day to day basis, but to
need to basis, and most of them, not most of it,
but a lot of material on Lifeline was furnished to
us through Jaeger Hoover, and it was very anti Martin
(18:48):
Luther King and miss Hunt and Hoover and Linda Johnson
all thought that Martin Luther King was being supported by
the Communist Party and all of his income and it's
an information that he was able to get came through
the Colonists.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Party of there.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So we all know about James Array and the assassination
of Martin Luther King. When the assassination happened, what was
mister Hunt's behavior.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Like immediately after the assassination of Martin Luther King.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And I believe that I believe that.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Mister Hunt had word of the assassination within ten or
fifteen minutes after the shot failed shots were fired. The
first thing mister Hunt did was call me and asked
me to round up as many young ladies as I could,
go down to the Dallas office and call every Lifeline
(19:49):
radio station, which was over six hundred stations, and asked
them to not play a Martin Luther King program that
was kid you within the next twenty four thirty six hours,
at which we did there. But right after the assassination,
mister Hunt began to receive more threats from people who
(20:14):
believed that he had an influence in the shooting of
Mortal Lucy King. He hit home without loss of drivers
there in Dallas on the twelve Raco State, but he
was receiving almost a continuous full telephone calls which were
anti Hunt and pro Marntinal Lucy King. There were shops
(20:37):
even being fired over the top of his house. And
Miss Hunt called me on Saturday after Kenny, after Martin
Luther King was killed on a Friday night, and I
made arrangements to get tickets in my name and my
(20:58):
wife's name for he and Miss Hunt to go to
ill Passo, Texas, and I checked them into the Holiday
Inn motels there in my name, and I picked them up,
went to the airport and shipped them to a rail passole.
At that time, I'm sure a lot of thousand people
(21:19):
had American airline credit cards, but I had to have
a American airline credit cards that would enable me to
buy tickets for anybody, any word, any place of the earth.
In most American isline credit cards did not give that
person that privilege. There, But mister Hunt went to al
Passol on a Monday morning after he got tail passed.
(21:42):
On Saturday, jag Or Hoover called into our Dallas office
as for mister Hunt. It was advised that that Miss
Trump was out of town. Who were then asked if
John was there. As far as I know, Whover never
knew my last name, but anyway, I did talked to him.
He asked me if I could get a hold of
(22:02):
Miss Trunt, had him come to Washington.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I told him yes I could. I called Miss Trunt
and he and Ruth left immediately for Washington. Do you
have any idea of what the meeting was about.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I have no idea what the meetian was about.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
And I believe also you had some interaction with James
ol Ray's attorney, Percy Foreman. What can you tell us
about how he got involved and then what your interaction
with him was.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Mister Hunt, to my knowledge, had never had any direct
contact with Percy Forman, but he knew of Percy Foreman
and after James row Ray was arrested, And you have
to keep in mind that James row Ray was not
(22:56):
arrested for a long period of time after the shooting.
Martin Luther King, but I think that Percy Forman just
sort of warned his way in to represent James roll
Ray after he was arrested and after the trial began
to after preparation for the trial began.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
It was Miss Hunt's believed that again.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
James roll Ray acted upon the shooting of Mortal Luthery
King based upon his influence.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
From the Lifeline radio program.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So again Miss Hunt was under the impression that if
James roll Ray testified in trial and brought up Lifeline,
he h L Hunt himself would be an Accustoor figure
would be pointed at him. So Miss Huntsholfer one afternoon
we got Percy Fororman on the telephone. In conversation, they
(23:57):
exchanged a few compliments with each other, and Miss Trut
stated that he had a young attorney that had a
lot of ideas on some talking points for James ro
Ray on the trial there and wanted to know if
Percy Foreman would meet with me, as I was a
long young older with the ideas.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Percy Foreman said yes.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
There was no exchange of any information or do this
or do that, or anybody in exchange, but Miss Trut gave.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Me one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I left
it next morning for yes.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
One hundred and twenty five thousand dollars in cash. I
flew to Houston collar cab, went to Personforman's office, walked in,
introduced myself to him. We talked about typical things of
the weather and the cowboys or something like that, and
I just shimpted, stated the person Foreman that I tarted
(24:59):
down a hundred and twenty five thousand reasons when James
row Ray should plead guilty to shooting the Mortal. As
the team person Foreman's comments, he looked at it and said,
just leave your beef briefcase and I'll look your reasons over.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I was in Person Orman's office.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I'd say less than seven or eight men attacked the most,
and shortly thereafter that person Foreman did convince James row
Ray that he should enter guilty plea, and that side
of James Rowray for any further testimony against must.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Had a lifelime. Wow, that's that's powerful.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I can't imagine carrying a briefcase with one hundred and
twenty five thousand dollars in back.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Back then, thousand dollar bills were not illegal, So really
in thousand dollar bills, it's it's a pocketful of money.
But you know, if you can, y're old transported without
any without any logistical problems.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Also back then they didn't search your luggage when you
went on an airplant or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And the interesting thing to that kind of the footnote
to that story is, I think just a few days
later Ray came back and he wanted to change his
plea and the judge wouldn't let him. He said, I
was talked into this, you know, which is exactly what
you're saying. That's an interesting footnote to the whole story.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I don't believe any member of the.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
James Row, of the Kennedy, of the Paunt Luther King family,
I don't believe any member ever accepted the fact that James.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Roll Ray was surely responsible for them.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And James roll Ray denied it from immediately after he
has guilty plea.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And denied it I think to the day of his death,
right right.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I read not long ago that the King family still
definitely believes it was more than just the James Overwrathing. Well, okay,
going forward, we now had the assassination of JFK and
of Martin Luther King, and you had an election coming
up in nineteen sixty eight?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
What did mister Hunt think about the upcoming election? In
the candidates?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Mister Hunt had an uncanny ability to predict in the
future normally who was going to be elected to any
high priority office. And his track record proved to be
him to prove him to be right more than he
was wrong. But it was mister Hunt's opinion that Martin
Kennedy would be elected in nineteen sixty eight as a
(27:47):
nominee to run for prodent. And it was also mister
Hunt's believed that Martin Luther King would be the second
spot on that deal. And at that time, mister Hunt
considered his two worst enemies from a political standpoint would
be Bobby Kennedy and.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Martin Luzy King. And then of course King was assassinated.
That still left Bobby in the running, though I know
that he was campaigning out in California towards the end
of his life.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Do you have any trips that you made or anything
like that out to California in that timeframe.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I had hired a man at one time named Wendall
Lyles Junior to be nothing more than an informant for
when I say me, I'm talking about from mister Hunt
there as to everything going on in California that had
a political climate to it. And Wendell Nile's job at
(28:53):
this time was to keep me informed as to who
Bobby Kennedy was meeting with, who was scared you, and
his appointments, Uh, how he was being received in California
and in the local people's opinion, how strong he was
gonna be for the nominee in nineteen sixty eight, and
the reports we were getting didn't suggest that Kennedy would
(29:17):
be nominated and Kennedy would be hard.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
To beat in the in the election there. Did you
ever go out there personally to California?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Uh, just a few weeks before Bobby Kennedy was assassinated,
mister Hunt and I flew out to California for a one,
one day, one night visit, a little bit unusual or
we stayed at the Ambassador Hotel at that particular time.
(29:50):
That was our first time to ever go to the
Ambassador Hotel. That night, mister Hunt met a man. I
was not invited to the meeting or to the dinner.
I didn't have dinner that night with one of Miles.
We stayed one night at in California and returned to
Dallas the next day.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You had said earlier that you knew about ninety eight
percent of everything mister Hunt did.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Was was it unusual for you not to be invited
to that meeting?
Speaker 3 (30:23):
It was unusual in a way, but usual. I mean,
that's sort of a conflict and answer. But Miss Hunt's
personality was hard to predict, you know, And when he
made the decision, I never questioned. I didn't say, well,
why this or why that? It could have been unusual.
(30:47):
In looking back on it, it was unusual, but I
didn't read anything to it at that particular time.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Okay, In working on the book, a name came up
named Mark Deering. What can you tell us about him?
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Shortly after.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Sir Hand, Sir Hand shot Bobby Kennedy, Miss Hunt wanted
to send forty thousand dollars to California, and he did
not want me to take the money out there. But anyway,
I selected a friend of mine who was also an
employee with other named Mark Dearing. He came to my office,
(31:28):
picked up forty thousand dollars, and flew to Los Angeles
to deliver it to the man's who I gave him
the man's name. The man did not show up there
at the airport and Mark, but another man did, saying
that he represented the person that was to get the money,
and Mark Dearon called me, asked me what to do,
(31:49):
and I told him I'll not to release the money
on it to the person that the money was supposed
to go to. So shortly after that, arrangement was made
for the man to get the money, but he wanted
to meet Mark at the Ambacheldor Hotel. So again I
thought that was a little bit unusual. But anyway, that's
(32:12):
that's where the money exchanged hands.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
There a lot of interesting things going on at the
Ambassador Hotel at.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
And then shortly after that, and I don't have any
explanation for this. Mister Hunt wanted to send Bob Hope
twenty five thousand dollars and I was able to get
you twenty five thousand dollars and talk got it to
Bob Hope. Where out there was any tie in between
(32:38):
those two payments, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
That is it has something to think about. You know.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
The person that wrote the forward to the book is
doctor Sarah Wecked, and I seem to remember him talking
about the fact that the autopsy that was done Bobby
Kennedy was much more thorough than the one that was
done of JFK and that everybody in the room seemed
(33:10):
to say that the shot came from just two inches
behind his head that killed him.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
If you can believe a well prepared scientific altropicy, then
you have to accept the fact that Barbi Kennedy was
killed by a bullet that was fired by an.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Inch and a half or two inches behind the back
of his head.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
If Bobby Kennedy had gone on to be president, what
do you think would have happened to LBJ.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
LBJ would would have been dropped from the ticket in
sixty eight. He would in all probably been united, just
for the selfal reason that Boby Kennedy was always a
strong enemy of LBJ. He didn't want him on the
two in nineteen sixty, he didn't respect the LBJWALLI was
(34:04):
in office, and they were they enemies are not a
good word, but they just didn't share anything in common
from a political standpoint or an economic standpoint.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Wow, well, I don't want to leave out the fourth
person that you tie hl Hight two in the book,
which is Jimmy Hoffa. Now it wasn't a public assassination
like the other three, but mister Hunt did have ties
to Jimmy Hoffer.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
What was his relationship to Jimmy Hoffe.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Something we did not talk on earlier. But at the
time period we're talking about, mister Hunt was often referred
to as the world's richest and most powerful man. As such,
Miss Trunk was a largest private employer in the world,
was the largest private landowner in the world, was the
(35:05):
largest producer.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Of oil and gas in the world. It was the
largest drilling contractor in the world. So the.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Unions were constantly trying to infiltrate mister Hunt's operations. There
After Haffo got imprisoned, mister Hunt's plants were still being
visited by the labor union organizer. But he was able
to structure a deal with Jimmy Hoffo that won I'll
(35:37):
yet you out of prison and you keep.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Your organizer out of my business.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
There.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
That was the agreement that was made between the two
men there, And of course there was money involved in
that deal. And forty eight hours before a man named
Sidney Zachary, which was a union attorney in Washington, d
she was killed. I delivered one hundred and twenty five
(36:03):
thousand dollars to him at the Kamaa Hotel in Dallas, Texas,
and that was to be I don't know who was
to get the money, but that was to be the
money necessary to get half out of the penitentiary. Sidney Zachary,
after he got the money, flew to Atlanta, Georgia. The
next day he went to Montgomery, Alabama. He went after
(36:27):
dinner that night the restaurant called on fire. Sidney Zachary,
along with twenty some of the other people were killed.
No one ever knew what happened to the money. I
don't know whether it was burnt up in the fire.
I don't know whether Zachary had delivered somebody. I don't
know whether he had put it into his own bank account.
(36:49):
But when that, when Sidney Zachary got killed, everything shut
down on getting Jimmy Hoffer out of the penitentiary.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I missed.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Hunt didn't know what happened to the money. He didn't
know who was to get the money. He only furnished
the money, but it was to go to somebody on
that deal.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
But after.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
After Sidney's actory was killed, Haffer became almost uncontrollable because
the delivery of the money was the last step required
to get halfer out of the penitentiure when when Sydney's
actory was killed, nobody would touch Jimmy Hoffer. But Jimmy
(37:33):
Hoffer became awfully impatient, and he was blaming everybody everyone
for that misfortune, and I think he blamed Bobby Kennedy
more than any other person of the cause of them.
But notwithstanding all of that, it did walk over another
year or two, and Jimmy Hoffer did get out of prison,
(37:56):
or Richard Nixon did give him a pardon, But rather
than taking a nice, easy life, Haffer again became almost
uncontrollable as to statements that he wanted to make and
allegations he wanted to make. So I think someone made
the decision that it was everybody's best interest for half
(38:19):
of the disappeer.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
And that's what happened to him.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
You know, there's all kinds of stories about he was
buried at Giant Stadium, he was killed at this house,
he was buried in that plot.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Do you have any idea what really happened to him?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
My best information, and it's nothing more than here's the information,
but it came to one of the keem Offia people
in Chicago that Jimmy Hoffer was picked up, taken to
a meat slaughtering plant, was thrown into a meat grinder,
ground up in the hamburger patties, including his his built,
(38:58):
his boots, his buckles, and everything at all. Well, well
that would explain why they never found him, I guess. Well,
that's certainly a fascinating look into mister H. L. Hunt
and the power that he had. It's amazing to me
how much money was circulating around all four of these
(39:20):
this and how he seemed to have ties to all
of them himself. And I think, like I said earlier,
that's one of the things that first interested me in
your story when you when you contacted me, was I
had never heard one person mister Hunt tied to all
four murders like that. But the more you get into
(39:43):
it and the more you talk about it, there there
has there seems to be all these commonalities, including the
money flowing around and mister Hunt trying to exert his
influence and his thoughts.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
And beliefs into these situations as well.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Well, I have just bigger mysteries and unanswers as anyone else,
but from the beginning, from the time the fail shot
was fired against John Fitzgerald Kennedy up until the present time.
And I'm not a reader of books. I've read my
(40:19):
book and think it's a pretty good book. I hope
others read it. There I'm not I'm not a reader
of books, but in reading newspaper stories or magazine stories,
or listening to radio or TV commentators, almost without exception,
hl Hunt's name is introduced into being involved in those
(40:42):
four killings, but no one has ever followed up on it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Was he involved, how was he involved? Why was he involved?
How did it have so? Uh? The book that you
and I have written is a soft sale book. There
I people will read it.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I hope it's they have any ideas they can use
some of my comments to support their comments. But I
believe if enough people would get enough interest, if we
could open up the case on these four killing that
I would have enough information to.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Attract the attention of a grand jury. Well, I believe
that to be true.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
And I think that the most interesting thing about your
book is you're not trying to come out and like
you said, hard Sell, this is who did it.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
This is what happened. You're saying, here's the things that
I saw, here's the money I delivered.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
And I've gotten a lot of comments from people who say,
this contains a lot of pieces that fit together with
my theories of this or my theories of that. And
so no matter what people seem to think about any
one of these deaths, be it JFK or Martin Luther King,
the information seems to fit together jigsaw puzzle pieces, and
(42:01):
I think that that makes it an interesting rate.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I really do well.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Just to sum up our visit, I think the book
title answer the question. Hl Hunt had the moldive and
hl Hunt had the opportunity, and the next pray he
had the.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Beings to do it. Yeah, I think there's no question
about that. John.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I really appreciate you sitting down with me today, and
I hope everybody's enjoyed this. The thing that I hope
you carry away if you're watching this is that this
is firsthand information from somebody who was actually there, and
to me, there's a lot of power in those things.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
So I do hope that you get a chance to
read the book, enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
And of course there's always the opportunity for us to
delve even more into it, and I hope we get
that opportunity in the near future.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Thank you very much. Greatly appreciate you watching the show.
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
My name is Mitchell Woodington, and I'm really really happy
today to be sitting next to my friend John Crrington.
We're going to talk a little bit about hl Hunt
and his possible connections to the death of John F. Kennedy,
Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, and Jimmy Haifa.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And it's really a pleasure John to be sitting here.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
And you know, when we were writing this book, we
were meeting about once a week at the Catfish Place,
and so I got to see every week and talk
to you and visit, and we hadn't got to do
that in a while, so this will be really special
for me. I do want to tell everybody that I
think the thing that first caught my attention when John
Ferry first called me was the fact that there was
(01:00):
one person, mister Hunt, hl Hunt, that had ties to
all four of these murders. And John, I don't think
I've ever seen one person tied to all.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Four of these have you? No? I have not.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Now I haven't either, So that just makes your story
incredible to me. And in fact, it's not just that,
but also the fact that you live this. I mean,
this was your job and I'm looking forward to hearing
some of your comments on that.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
As we go through today. I'm looking forward to it all.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Well, just to get started before we I've made some
notes to have some questions to ask you to kind
of keep myself on track, But just to get started,
how did you come to be the right hand man
to HL Hunt? Now, I'm sure he didn't put ad
in the paper saying I need somebody that's my most
trusted employee and I can trust with anything.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
How did you get to that position?
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Well, first question has disappointed me. I don't have an
answer for it. I started to work for Hunt Oil
Company in the nineteen fifty three fifty four time period,
and after being there two or three years, I just
was some recalled in mister Hunt's office and I wasn't
(02:21):
asked if I wanted to work up there. I was
directed to work up there. And I don't have an
answer to your question, but I did. I had done
some special works for his son, Herbert Bunker, and I
think they told their dad that I had a reputation
of getting things done, and mister Hunt relaid upon their
(02:42):
relied upon their recommendations, and that's how became associated with him.
But nothing in my background would have suggested that I
would have ended up in that position there.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
But your office was directly next to him.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
This we had adjoin an off season, and we normally
door was always open. Mister Hunt his dish was an
old tiiny dish, probably forty five or fifty years old,
but he had a small buzzer on it. Anytime he
warned me, he punched the buzzer and I was there
(03:16):
within three seconds.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
There after the buzzer was appointed there. Wow, So not
much went on up there that you didn't know about.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I believe that I was privileged to ninety eight percent
of all of mister Hunk's activities involving other people or
involving his political beliefs, and his interest in his business
and his business impar Wow.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Well, I'd like to kind of start out by going
into some.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Of that knowledge you have about his business and him
by talking about John F.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Kennedy. John Fitzgerald Kennedy, When did you first meet JFK.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Miss Hunt and I went to the Democratic Convention in
Los Angeles in nineteen sixty. The convention was taken over
pretty well by the Kennedy family of John Fitzgerald Kennedy
was there, His father, Joe Kennedy was there, and his
brother Balby was there.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Joe Kennedy was by.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Far the most active and the most aggressive man at
the convention. John Fitzgerald kept a low profile of this
Hunt I were exposed during AIM or a very short
period of time, over a limited period of time, but
most all of Miss Hunt's contacts was through Joe Kennedy
and brother Baldy Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
What role did mister hot play in the convention itself?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Mister Hunt went to the.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Convention with the idea that Linda Johnson was going to
be elected selected for the president's denomination, not JFK but Johnson.
Johnson's closest ally in Washington was Sam Rayburn, who was
the most.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Powerful political man in Washington at that time.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
But after we were at when I say we had talked,
Miss Hunt and I were at the convention, probably twenty
four thirty six hours, it became obvious to almost ever
won except LBJ, that Kennedy's were in and Lindon Johnson
was out. And Lyndon just could not accept the fact
that his reputation as a good politician and his knowledge
(05:35):
of the government was putting.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Him in that back seat position there. Wow, well, how
did Hunt get him on the ticket and get that
ticket elected?
Speaker 3 (05:49):
I think mister Hunt had more influence with Lyndon Johnson
than any other person on getting Johnson to accept the
second spot. For one, that Kennedy didn't like Johnson and
Johnson didn't like to Kennedy. But mister Hunt was able to,
in a what I call a soft sale presentation, convinced
(06:14):
Lindon that the only way he would ever become president
when he had to take the second spot. Then, for
reasons unknown at that time, John Fisterer of Kennedy would
leave office under some kind of a circumstance and Johnson
would step into that position. So that's what Hunt believes, yes,
(06:37):
and that's the belief he conveyed to Lendren Johnson.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
There.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Interesting, Okay, Well they did get elected obviously, and mister
Hunt was still involved, I guess behind the scenes with.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Talking to LBJ on a regular basis. I mean, one
of the.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Things that interested me when I first started talking to
you was we'd be sitting across from each other at
the Catfish Place, and I would think, here's a man
that could pick up the phone and get LBJ. On
the other end, you know, here's a man that actually
talked to presidents of the United States and you don't
know many people like that, or I don't, so that
was interesting. But I assume that you and mister Hunt
(07:16):
continued that relationship with LBJ.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Well, mister Hunt's political decisions, although he had a reputation
of being on what I would call a right side,
very constructive of political belief there when it got right
down to the nitty gritty, he normally backed his support
as to the person who could do him the most
(07:41):
good from a monetary or business standpoint, and it was
mister Hunt's belief that Linda Johnson would be an effective president,
but more important than Johnson would listen to any suggestion
or recommendation that mister Johnes that mister Hunt wanted to make,
and that was his primary reason for the support there.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Now.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
I know that there was something at the time that
came up about a sermon by doctor Criswell, who was
the pastor of the First Baptist Church.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Can you tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Back in nineteen sixty at after Johnson and Kennedy to
brawl in the ticket mister Hunt came up with what
I consider a very unique idea. He wanted doctor W. A.
Creswell to deliver a sermon on Sunday morning from the
(08:40):
polpit of the First Baptist Church in Dallas that would
denounce the Roman Catholic Church and two would renounce Bobby
Kennedy as a Catholic running for office. Now, mister Hunt's
theory was that this sermon would unite the Catholics against
(09:04):
the opposition, and to the sermon would uh the pastors
that would receive this sermon. The next before I met
the next torment mister Hunt was, we had the sermon reproduced.
I carried the message to New York and had it
(09:24):
duprecated and mailed to two hundred thousand Protestant ministers in
the United States.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
WO.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
So it was mister Hunt's theory that this message would
unite the Catholics, but the two hundred thousand Protestant ministers
that received a copy of the message, they in turn
would denounce Krizmle for making that speech from the pulpit.
And then therefore he felt like he had a double
(09:51):
edged sword. And the sermon did turn out just as
mister Hunt had projected. He and I were subject to
being subpoenaed to appear before a House investigative committee. We
were interviewed by the three different FBI agents, three agents
(10:13):
at the same time. He and I disappeared for about
a four month period of time where we had to
avoid being arrested. The sermon violated a federal law which
in effects states that if you write an article against
(10:35):
someone running for president, you have to identify yourself as
a sender of that article. And although I said it,
I did not identify myself, and thus I violated a
federal law. And the first FBI agent that talked to
me told me that I was looking at a two
hundred and twenty five thousand count indictment. That sort of
(10:58):
encouraged me to disappear for period of time.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Hopefully the statute of limitations has passed time. I hope
it has.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, that's a pretty complex plan, but I guess that
shows the thought process of mister Hunt and how he
had everything that he was working behind the scenes.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Well, let me get a part of me interrupting you there.
But at the same time that I mailed that mail
into the Protestant ministers, I had about twenty twenty five
young ladies working for me, and we wrote a very
complimentary piece for Lyndon Johnson, and we went to the
(11:38):
public library and made a coffee of that and mailed
a coffee of the Lyndon Johnson pro article to every
person in a telephone directory that had the name Johnson.
And at that time I was working with over six
hundred radio stations and more in our Lifeline program, and
(12:02):
I had those radio stations located in six hundred different
cities to send me telephone books from those cities.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
So we were.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Denouncing Bobby jack John Fifter of Kennedy on one hand,
but complimenting Johnson on the other hand. And mister Hunt
Singer handled it. Took credit, I think for John Fister
of Kennedy or Linder Johnson.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Being elected there.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So I guess at some point he kind of lost
faith in that combination of the president and vice president
what happened there.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Mister Hunt believed that Linda Johnson was a much smarter
politician than President Kennedy, that Johnson could control Kennedy, and
although he was in the second spot, by his political skills,
he was able to accomplish anything that needed to be done.
(12:58):
But it became obvious over a period of time that
Johnson was losing his power and Bobby Kennedy and John
Fitzgerald Kennedy was gaining power. And miss Hunt always contributed
Bobby's skills a little bit more than John Fitzgerald's there
But anyway, it became obvious to mister Hunt that Johnson
(13:21):
was going to be dropped from the ticket in nineteen
sixty four, and therefore, in all probability, Bobby Kennedy would
have also had Johnson indicted along with his bag man
total name Bobby Baker. So it became obvious to mister
Hunt in the latter part of nineteen sixty three or
(13:42):
three sixty three that to protect his empire that fitz
John Fitzgerald Kennedy had to be removed from Wolfish.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Well, we know what happened there after he was shot,
after President Kennedy was shot. But was there any relationship
that you saw between mister Hunt and Lee Harvey Oswald
or the Osweal family.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Or mister Hunt in his own personal belief, believed that
in the initial beginning that Lee Harvey Oswall had made
the move that he did based upon derogatory comments that
mister Hunt's radio program Wifline had had expanded against John
Fitzgerald Kennedy.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So mister Hunt, so that's all the anti Kennedy things
that he had been doing the George is talking about.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Okay, that makes sense, yea.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So mister Hunt believed that if Lee Harvey Oswald ever
went to trial, had ever testified, that he would tie
mister Hunt into his anti Kennedy program and therefore would
be a very critical situation for him. And in fact,
(14:58):
Miss Trump believed that he himself coul be indicted based
upon Lee Harvey Oswald testimony. So on a Saturday afternoon,
the four thirty five o'clock, Miss Hunt called me, asked
me to go down to the Dallas Police Department checked
the security that was going on around Lee Harvey Oswall.
(15:19):
I did go down to the police department. I did,
just coincidental. I got on the same elevator with Captain
Will French and Lee Harvey Oswall. Captain real Friends was
a good friend of mister Hunt's, was a friend of mine.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
He introduced me to Oswald.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Uh. We made no exchange of any words there. We
just looked at each other. But Miss Hunt wanted a
security check around Lee Harvey Oswall and then I was
to report back to him regardless of the time of
night it might be.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
And I finally left the Dallas Police a.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Parting about one thirty two o'clock on a Sunday morning there.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
And he reported back to him.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
I had instruction to report to Miss Hunt back in
person to his house on a loss of drive there
in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
At that time. He asked me if I would go
to Josephlle old.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
House, who was head of the mafia for the southern
part of the United States, and see if Savella would
come over to Mount Vernon that was miss hunt home,
and which idea went to Savelle old House about two
thirty on a Sunday morning, got him up out of bed.
He agreed to go to Miss Hunch House. I think
(16:40):
he got over there about seven o'clock. About eleven o'clock,
Lee hall All was shot by Jock Ruby. Wow.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
So that's uh, that's very interesting. Uh.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
You know, we could go in and on it about
the ties between mister Hunt and Kennedy and the assassination,
but I think that folks are also want to be
interested in the aspect of Martin Luther King and mister
Hunt you had mentioned.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Earlier about Lifeline.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Could you tell us a little bit about that, because
I know that that was kind of played into the
whole Martin Luther King story.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Lifeline was a program that was written and produced and
distributed by H. L. Hunt, a personal cost of him
of several thousand dollars a day a day. We bought
all the radio time or over six hundred radio stations.
We had offices in Washington, We had commentators, writers, attorneys,
(17:43):
their office and dollars for the Lifeline program. It was
a six day a week, fifteen minute what I call
a pro American program, and it was dedicated to hopefully
would influm people to cast the vote that Miss Hunt
thought was would be better for the American people.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Was Martin Luther King ever the subject of.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
This Lifeline Really I believe that in looking backwards, that
Martin Luther King probably had more derogatory Lifeline program than
any other person there.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
And Jaeger Hoover and Miss Hunt was in contact on
a not on a day to day basis, but to
need to basis, and most of them, not most of it,
but a lot of material on Lifeline was furnished to
us through Jaeger Hoover, and it was very anti Martin
(18:48):
Luther King and miss Hunt and Hoover and Linda Johnson
all thought that Martin Luther King was being supported by
the Communist Party and all of his income and it's
an information that he was able to get came through
the Colonists.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Party of there.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
So we all know about James Array and the assassination
of Martin Luther King. When the assassination happened, what was
mister Hunt's behavior.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Like immediately after the assassination of Martin Luther King.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
And I believe that I believe that.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Mister Hunt had word of the assassination within ten or
fifteen minutes after the shot failed shots were fired. The
first thing mister Hunt did was call me and asked
me to round up as many young ladies as I could,
go down to the Dallas office and call every Lifeline
(19:49):
radio station, which was over six hundred stations, and asked
them to not play a Martin Luther King program that
was kid you within the next twenty four thirty six hours,
at which we did there. But right after the assassination,
mister Hunt began to receive more threats from people who
(20:14):
believed that he had an influence in the shooting of
Mortal Lucy King. He hit home without loss of drivers
there in Dallas on the twelve Raco State, but he
was receiving almost a continuous full telephone calls which were
anti Hunt and pro Marntinal Lucy King. There were shops
(20:37):
even being fired over the top of his house. And
Miss Hunt called me on Saturday after Kenny, after Martin
Luther King was killed on a Friday night, and I
made arrangements to get tickets in my name and my
(20:58):
wife's name for he and Miss Hunt to go to
ill Passo, Texas, and I checked them into the Holiday
Inn motels there in my name, and I picked them up,
went to the airport and shipped them to a rail passole.
At that time, I'm sure a lot of thousand people
(21:19):
had American airline credit cards, but I had to have
a American airline credit cards that would enable me to
buy tickets for anybody, any word, any place of the earth.
In most American isline credit cards did not give that
person that privilege. There, But mister Hunt went to al
Passol on a Monday morning after he got tail passed.
(21:42):
On Saturday, jag Or Hoover called into our Dallas office
as for mister Hunt. It was advised that that Miss
Trump was out of town. Who were then asked if
John was there. As far as I know, Whover never
knew my last name, but anyway, I did talked to him.
He asked me if I could get a hold of
(22:02):
Miss Trunt, had him come to Washington.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I told him yes I could. I called Miss Trunt
and he and Ruth left immediately for Washington. Do you
have any idea of what the meeting was about.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
I have no idea what the meetian was about.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
That's interesting.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
And I believe also you had some interaction with James
ol Ray's attorney, Percy Foreman. What can you tell us
about how he got involved and then what your interaction
with him was.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Mister Hunt, to my knowledge, had never had any direct
contact with Percy Forman, but he knew of Percy Foreman
and after James row Ray was arrested, And you have
to keep in mind that James row Ray was not
(22:56):
arrested for a long period of time after the shooting.
Martin Luther King, but I think that Percy Forman just
sort of warned his way in to represent James roll
Ray after he was arrested and after the trial began
to after preparation for the trial began.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
It was Miss Hunt's believed that again.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
James roll Ray acted upon the shooting of Mortal Luthery
King based upon his influence.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
From the Lifeline radio program.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
So again Miss Hunt was under the impression that if
James roll Ray testified in trial and brought up Lifeline,
he h L Hunt himself would be an Accustoor figure
would be pointed at him. So Miss Huntsholfer one afternoon
we got Percy Fororman on the telephone. In conversation, they
(23:57):
exchanged a few compliments with each other, and Miss Trut
stated that he had a young attorney that had a
lot of ideas on some talking points for James ro
Ray on the trial there and wanted to know if
Percy Foreman would meet with me, as I was a
long young older with the ideas.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Percy Foreman said yes.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
There was no exchange of any information or do this
or do that, or anybody in exchange, but Miss Trut gave.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
Me one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. I left
it next morning for yes.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
One hundred and twenty five thousand dollars in cash. I
flew to Houston collar cab, went to Personforman's office, walked in,
introduced myself to him. We talked about typical things of
the weather and the cowboys or something like that, and
I just shimpted, stated the person Foreman that I tarted
(24:59):
down a hundred and twenty five thousand reasons when James
row Ray should plead guilty to shooting the Mortal. As
the team person Foreman's comments, he looked at it and said,
just leave your beef briefcase and I'll look your reasons over.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I was in Person Orman's office.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
I'd say less than seven or eight men attacked the most,
and shortly thereafter that person Foreman did convince James row
Ray that he should enter guilty plea, and that side
of James Rowray for any further testimony against must.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Had a lifelime. Wow, that's that's powerful.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
I can't imagine carrying a briefcase with one hundred and
twenty five thousand dollars in back.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Back then, thousand dollar bills were not illegal, So really
in thousand dollar bills, it's it's a pocketful of money.
But you know, if you can, y're old transported without
any without any logistical problems.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Also back then they didn't search your luggage when you
went on an airplant or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well, you know.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
And the interesting thing to that kind of the footnote
to that story is, I think just a few days
later Ray came back and he wanted to change his
plea and the judge wouldn't let him. He said, I
was talked into this, you know, which is exactly what
you're saying. That's an interesting footnote to the whole story.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I don't believe any member of the.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
James Row, of the Kennedy, of the Paunt Luther King family,
I don't believe any member ever accepted the fact that James.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Roll Ray was surely responsible for them.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And James roll Ray denied it from immediately after he
has guilty plea.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And denied it I think to the day of his death,
right right.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I read not long ago that the King family still
definitely believes it was more than just the James Overwrathing. Well, okay,
going forward, we now had the assassination of JFK and
of Martin Luther King, and you had an election coming
up in nineteen sixty eight?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
What did mister Hunt think about the upcoming election? In
the candidates?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Mister Hunt had an uncanny ability to predict in the
future normally who was going to be elected to any
high priority office. And his track record proved to be
him to prove him to be right more than he
was wrong. But it was mister Hunt's opinion that Martin
Kennedy would be elected in nineteen sixty eight as a
(27:47):
nominee to run for prodent. And it was also mister
Hunt's believed that Martin Luther King would be the second
spot on that deal. And at that time, mister Hunt
considered his two worst enemies from a political standpoint would
be Bobby Kennedy and.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
Martin Luzy King. And then of course King was assassinated.
That still left Bobby in the running, though I know
that he was campaigning out in California towards the end
of his life.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Do you have any trips that you made or anything
like that out to California in that timeframe.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
I had hired a man at one time named Wendall
Lyles Junior to be nothing more than an informant for
when I say me, I'm talking about from mister Hunt
there as to everything going on in California that had
a political climate to it. And Wendell Nile's job at
(28:53):
this time was to keep me informed as to who
Bobby Kennedy was meeting with, who was scared you, and
his appointments, Uh, how he was being received in California
and in the local people's opinion, how strong he was
gonna be for the nominee in nineteen sixty eight, and
the reports we were getting didn't suggest that Kennedy would
(29:17):
be nominated and Kennedy would be hard.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
To beat in the in the election there. Did you
ever go out there personally to California?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Uh, just a few weeks before Bobby Kennedy was assassinated,
mister Hunt and I flew out to California for a one,
one day, one night visit, a little bit unusual or
we stayed at the Ambassador Hotel at that particular time.
(29:50):
That was our first time to ever go to the
Ambassador Hotel. That night, mister Hunt met a man. I
was not invited to the meeting or to the dinner.
I didn't have dinner that night with one of Miles.
We stayed one night at in California and returned to
Dallas the next day.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You had said earlier that you knew about ninety eight
percent of everything mister Hunt did.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Was was it unusual for you not to be invited
to that meeting?
Speaker 3 (30:23):
It was unusual in a way, but usual. I mean,
that's sort of a conflict and answer. But Miss Hunt's
personality was hard to predict, you know, And when he
made the decision, I never questioned. I didn't say, well,
why this or why that? It could have been unusual.
(30:47):
In looking back on it, it was unusual, but I
didn't read anything to it at that particular time.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Okay, In working on the book, a name came up
named Mark Deering. What can you tell us about him?
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Shortly after.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Sir Hand, Sir Hand shot Bobby Kennedy, Miss Hunt wanted
to send forty thousand dollars to California, and he did
not want me to take the money out there. But anyway,
I selected a friend of mine who was also an
employee with other named Mark Dearing. He came to my office,
(31:28):
picked up forty thousand dollars, and flew to Los Angeles
to deliver it to the man's who I gave him
the man's name. The man did not show up there
at the airport and Mark, but another man did, saying
that he represented the person that was to get the money,
and Mark Dearon called me, asked me what to do,
(31:49):
and I told him I'll not to release the money
on it to the person that the money was supposed
to go to. So shortly after that, arrangement was made
for the man to get the money, but he wanted
to meet Mark at the Ambacheldor Hotel. So again I
thought that was a little bit unusual. But anyway, that's
(32:12):
that's where the money exchanged hands.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
There a lot of interesting things going on at the
Ambassador Hotel at.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
And then shortly after that, and I don't have any
explanation for this. Mister Hunt wanted to send Bob Hope
twenty five thousand dollars and I was able to get
you twenty five thousand dollars and talk got it to
Bob Hope. Where out there was any tie in between
(32:38):
those two payments, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
That is it has something to think about. You know.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
The person that wrote the forward to the book is
doctor Sarah Wecked, and I seem to remember him talking
about the fact that the autopsy that was done Bobby
Kennedy was much more thorough than the one that was
done of JFK and that everybody in the room seemed
(33:10):
to say that the shot came from just two inches
behind his head that killed him.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
If you can believe a well prepared scientific altropicy, then
you have to accept the fact that Barbi Kennedy was
killed by a bullet that was fired by an.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Inch and a half or two inches behind the back
of his head.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
If Bobby Kennedy had gone on to be president, what
do you think would have happened to LBJ.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
LBJ would would have been dropped from the ticket in
sixty eight. He would in all probably been united, just
for the selfal reason that Boby Kennedy was always a
strong enemy of LBJ. He didn't want him on the
two in nineteen sixty, he didn't respect the LBJWALLI was
(34:04):
in office, and they were they enemies are not a
good word, but they just didn't share anything in common
from a political standpoint or an economic standpoint.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Wow, well, I don't want to leave out the fourth
person that you tie hl Hight two in the book,
which is Jimmy Hoffa. Now it wasn't a public assassination
like the other three, but mister Hunt did have ties
to Jimmy Hoffer.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
What was his relationship to Jimmy Hoffe.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Something we did not talk on earlier. But at the
time period we're talking about, mister Hunt was often referred
to as the world's richest and most powerful man. As such,
Miss Trunk was a largest private employer in the world,
was the largest private landowner in the world, was the
(35:05):
largest producer.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Of oil and gas in the world. It was the
largest drilling contractor in the world. So the.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Unions were constantly trying to infiltrate mister Hunt's operations. There
After Haffo got imprisoned, mister Hunt's plants were still being
visited by the labor union organizer. But he was able
to structure a deal with Jimmy Hoffo that won I'll
(35:37):
yet you out of prison and you keep.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Your organizer out of my business.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
There.
Speaker 3 (35:42):
That was the agreement that was made between the two
men there, And of course there was money involved in
that deal. And forty eight hours before a man named
Sidney Zachary, which was a union attorney in Washington, d
she was killed. I delivered one hundred and twenty five
(36:03):
thousand dollars to him at the Kamaa Hotel in Dallas, Texas,
and that was to be I don't know who was
to get the money, but that was to be the
money necessary to get half out of the penitentiary. Sidney Zachary,
after he got the money, flew to Atlanta, Georgia. The
next day he went to Montgomery, Alabama. He went after
(36:27):
dinner that night the restaurant called on fire. Sidney Zachary,
along with twenty some of the other people were killed.
No one ever knew what happened to the money. I
don't know whether it was burnt up in the fire.
I don't know whether Zachary had delivered somebody. I don't
know whether he had put it into his own bank account.
(36:49):
But when that, when Sidney Zachary got killed, everything shut
down on getting Jimmy Hoffer out of the penitentiary.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
I missed.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Hunt didn't know what happened to the money. He didn't
know who was to get the money. He only furnished
the money, but it was to go to somebody on
that deal.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
But after.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
After Sidney's actory was killed, Haffer became almost uncontrollable because
the delivery of the money was the last step required
to get halfer out of the penitentiure when when Sydney's
actory was killed, nobody would touch Jimmy Hoffer. But Jimmy
(37:33):
Hoffer became awfully impatient, and he was blaming everybody everyone
for that misfortune, and I think he blamed Bobby Kennedy
more than any other person of the cause of them.
But notwithstanding all of that, it did walk over another
year or two, and Jimmy Hoffer did get out of prison,
(37:56):
or Richard Nixon did give him a pardon, But rather
than taking a nice, easy life, Haffer again became almost
uncontrollable as to statements that he wanted to make and
allegations he wanted to make. So I think someone made
the decision that it was everybody's best interest for half
(38:19):
of the disappeer.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
And that's what happened to him.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
You know, there's all kinds of stories about he was
buried at Giant Stadium, he was killed at this house,
he was buried in that plot.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Do you have any idea what really happened to him?
Speaker 3 (38:32):
My best information, and it's nothing more than here's the information,
but it came to one of the keem Offia people
in Chicago that Jimmy Hoffer was picked up, taken to
a meat slaughtering plant, was thrown into a meat grinder,
ground up in the hamburger patties, including his his built,
(38:58):
his boots, his buckles, and everything at all. Well, well
that would explain why they never found him, I guess. Well,
that's certainly a fascinating look into mister H. L. Hunt
and the power that he had. It's amazing to me
how much money was circulating around all four of these
(39:20):
this and how he seemed to have ties to all
of them himself. And I think, like I said earlier,
that's one of the things that first interested me in
your story when you when you contacted me, was I
had never heard one person mister Hunt tied to all
four murders like that. But the more you get into
(39:43):
it and the more you talk about it, there there
has there seems to be all these commonalities, including the
money flowing around and mister Hunt trying to exert his
influence and his thoughts.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
And beliefs into these situations as well.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Well, I have just bigger mysteries and unanswers as anyone else,
but from the beginning, from the time the fail shot
was fired against John Fitzgerald Kennedy up until the present time.
And I'm not a reader of books. I've read my
(40:19):
book and think it's a pretty good book. I hope
others read it. There I'm not I'm not a reader
of books, but in reading newspaper stories or magazine stories,
or listening to radio or TV commentators, almost without exception,
hl Hunt's name is introduced into being involved in those
(40:42):
four killings, but no one has ever followed up on it.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
Was he involved, how was he involved? Why was he involved?
How did it have so? Uh? The book that you
and I have written is a soft sale book. There
I people will read it.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
I hope it's they have any ideas they can use
some of my comments to support their comments. But I
believe if enough people would get enough interest, if we
could open up the case on these four killing that
I would have enough information to.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Attract the attention of a grand jury. Well, I believe
that to be true.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
And I think that the most interesting thing about your
book is you're not trying to come out and like
you said, hard Sell, this is who did it.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
This is what happened. You're saying, here's the things that
I saw, here's the money I delivered.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
And I've gotten a lot of comments from people who say,
this contains a lot of pieces that fit together with
my theories of this or my theories of that. And
so no matter what people seem to think about any
one of these deaths, be it JFK or Martin Luther King,
the information seems to fit together jigsaw puzzle pieces, and
(42:01):
I think that that makes it an interesting rate.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I really do well.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
Just to sum up our visit, I think the book
title answer the question. Hl Hunt had the moldive and
hl Hunt had the opportunity, and the next pray he
had the.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Beings to do it. Yeah, I think there's no question
about that. John.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
I really appreciate you sitting down with me today, and
I hope everybody's enjoyed this. The thing that I hope
you carry away if you're watching this is that this
is firsthand information from somebody who was actually there, and
to me, there's a lot of power in those things.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
So I do hope that you get a chance to
read the book, enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
And of course there's always the opportunity for us to
delve even more into it, and I hope we get
that opportunity in the near future.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Thank you very much. Greatly appreciate you watching the show.
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