JFK Assassination - Full History

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (01:07):
This is a situation room. I read you go ahead,
whom your nailable information on president over all available information
on presidents follows. He and Governor Connolly of Texas have
been headed in the car in which they were writing.
We do not know how serious the situation is. We
have no information.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
He put devides on here and in play.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
I'm with the Secretary of State, other campas ins.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
Headed for Japan, turning around and on informating where there's something, retorting,
go gring me to.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Dallas over the Associated press is coming out now, the
bullet into the effect that they believe the president was
hit in the head.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:05):
This country was changed by in all kinds of harmful ways,
most domestically and international, loss of John F.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Kennedy and.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Inviting a lot of questions to go and answer. We're
all and learn more this year about by Who's kid?

Speaker 6 (02:33):
Can I touch on his death, sir?

Speaker 7 (02:34):
Briefly? But it's the worst day of my life, though
I don't like to talk about it too much.

Speaker 6 (02:39):
Understood, Sir, you wrote something quite ominous on paraphrase. Basically,
upon reflection, you find it hard to believe now that
perhaps some of Kennedy's enemies were not behind the assassination.
Have I got that correct?

Speaker 7 (02:53):
Well, something like that, because I don't know. Nobody really knows,
and I try to avoid reading most of these so
called conspiracy books. The fact is that Kennedy had enemies
in the right wing, particularly because of civil rights and

(03:15):
because his American University's speech indicated that he was taking
a more accommodating position towards the Soviet Union. He also
had enemies among organized crime, as did his brother Bobby.
He also supposedly had enemies among communists in both the

(03:37):
Soviet Union and Cubilo. I don't think either one of
them would have thought that they would gain by Kennedy's removal.
All I meant to say in the book was considering
the number of enemies that he had in the military
and intelligence circles in the United States. Lord knows, they

(03:58):
had reasons to get rid of it, and they had
opportunities to have access to arms, to reach out to
the kinds of weird and confused individuals who can be
recruited for that kind of work. I don't make any
accusations because I don't believe in making accusations without proof.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Wayside waitside, this is a situation room. I read from
the bullet and Kennedy apparently shot in head. He fell
fate down in the back seat of his car. Blood
was on his head. Ms and Kennedy cried, oh no
and tried to hold up his head. Connally remained half seated,
plump to the left. There was blood on his faith

(04:46):
and forehead. The President and the Governor were rushed at
Park lay In Hospital.

Speaker 8 (05:05):
It's still like yesterday to me.

Speaker 9 (05:08):
It is the same forty eight years.

Speaker 10 (05:12):
The President of car is now turning onto elementary.

Speaker 8 (05:15):
Do you want to take a minute, and.

Speaker 10 (05:18):
It will be only a matter of minutes before.

Speaker 11 (05:20):
He arrives at the state mark.

Speaker 12 (05:22):
The breakfast party who waits the arrival is Missus Kennedy.

(05:50):
Missus Kennedy's entrance draws another comment from the President.

Speaker 11 (05:55):
Two years ago.

Speaker 13 (05:56):
I said that introduced myself in Paris by saying that
I was the man.

Speaker 14 (05:59):
Who accompanied to Missus Kennedy to Paris.

Speaker 13 (06:02):
I'm getting that somewhat that same sensation.

Speaker 14 (06:04):
As I travel around Texas, nobody wonders what Lynden and
Night were.

Speaker 11 (06:29):
I was on Simmons Freeway earlier, and even the freeway
was jamp backed with spectators waiting their chance to see
the President as he made his way towards the trade marks.

Speaker 10 (06:39):
It appears to nothing has happened in the motor k route.
Something I repeat has happened in the Motor Kate route.
There's numerous people running up the hill along by Elm Street,
thereby the Simmons Freeway. Several police officers are rushing up
the hill at this.

Speaker 15 (06:55):
Giant stand by.

Speaker 16 (07:04):
Brent.

Speaker 17 (07:05):
I was close enough to that car when it happened
that I heard what she said and told them way
back in sixty nine I said, she said, oh my god,
he's been and I couldn't tell if she said shot
or hit. And the reason why I couldn't is now
seen as a brutal film. And I know that she

(07:27):
her faces down like this. She pulled him down, pushed
him down and crawled out of the back to get
a piece of skull off the back of the car.
It was horrendous. She literally, according to Clint Hill, pieced
his head back together on the way to Parkland Hospital
and tried to hold his head together.

Speaker 10 (07:47):
Coming up now and say missus Kennedy on the car, I.

Speaker 17 (07:53):
Still hope not neious about it. When I got down
to the plaza, there was such an electricity unless you
were there, there's no way to explain it. But have
you ever been in a situation where the hair shoot
up on the back of your neck. That's the way
it was that Dava. The air was just full of
excitement and static electricity. And I got my camera out
to make sure it was working on took pictures of

(08:14):
the crowd, the buildings, just to make sure it wasn't
working harder, because I did not want to miss one
second of my president. And you could tell as he
got closer, because the crowd got louder and louder, and
he turned onto Houston Street and the crowd districted crazy,
and then they turned and as soon as they started
to turn onto Elm Street, we left onto Elm Street.

(08:36):
I started from them, and shortly after the car got
all the way onto Elm Street, there was a noise
that went mad mad made I thought that that was
those things that we used to have with you were
children that you threw on the sidewalk and they popped.

(08:56):
You didn't have to line them or anything. And I
remember thinking, why would somebody let their children bring something
like that down to a place like this, And just
no more got that thought out and I'm filming the
motorcade no more than got that out of my mind
when it's boom. And when the baboom happened, it looked

(09:20):
like the whole back of his head just blued off.
It looked like a bucket of blood was thrown out
at the back of the car over the trunk. It
was the most horrific thing I have ever seen in
my life. There's no amount of movies, there's nothing that
could ever portray what really happened down there that day.
And the awfulness of it put me on.

Speaker 10 (09:43):
Put me on. Oh I got shooting. I repeat, I
was shooting in the motor gate in the downtown area.

Speaker 18 (09:56):
The reason I was going down the town of downas
day was Latch and day was Redhead and made the
date the day before I just turned twenty seven. I

(10:19):
got stopped at traffic just as asked. Whenever the trip
under pass, I got out of a car and see
what you and all I thought they had been all
the accent or something. And I walked four pop steps
to the front of the Triple Water passed see what
it went off. I saw this car come through the

(10:41):
crowd with times on dependence, which re mighted me that
I had forayed about the President need in town for more.
I stood I could not see through the windshere because
the glare of the sun off the wind shoot. All
I had was a frontel for where I was.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Well.

Speaker 10 (11:02):
What I thought was powful baro cracker.

Speaker 18 (11:05):
And I thought went through the line, what kind of
idiots would be those bar crackers? With the President going by?
Many was away and worked three seconds and then the
crack cracker. Two rapper shops lay right after thegether me.

Speaker 19 (11:19):
Say that free shot both President Kennedy and Beckive Governor
John Connolly. We're getting.

Speaker 18 (11:30):
I did not realize they were shooting at the President
were a very very person. I got behind the protection
of the SEMA there Wi you want to pass. After
the third shot, I'm standing. They're wondering what had happened.
A man in a suit because up to the learning
was up his shirt bendy lawlers and he asked me,
he said, what happened? I says, I do that love,

(11:54):
And together we walked across between Maine and Cobblers. We
crossed made hand Hell to where he motorcycle policeman and
stopped his motorcycle and there's a man there sobbing. His
head exploded. His head exploded in a motorcycle place to
ask you to he said, the Presidence, and that it

(12:15):
was the first to knew what had happened.

Speaker 19 (12:17):
The President was being driven through Doller with in the
past in an open car when the shock went fired.

Speaker 18 (12:24):
The alas looked up with me and he said, you
got blood on your face, and now the staff. But
there was a couple of free drops of blood. I
was fighted by concrete the right cheek. In the right
cheek is where I was hit. He focus again, it
was nothing serious. I took my hand chief white blow
and that was the end of that.

Speaker 10 (12:45):
Parking up golhead been a fight and then by the
gun dot burn.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
I heard a knock on the door of the cop
which room. Standing there was doctor Charles Crenshaw, who was
one of our senior surgery residents, and he said they'd
just called the emergency room and said that President Kennedy
had been shot during the midst of his motorcade downtown
and that they're bringing him, rushing him right now to

(13:18):
Parkland Hospital to our emergency room, and they want all
of the faculty surgeons to come to the emergency room immediate.

Speaker 10 (13:27):
The motoricate now odicate now booking the inference. Now Jill Popkin,
the hospital troubling at a highlight of speed. Ready police
got converging go Parkin from every angle, from every point.
President's wife, Jackie Kennedy, was not hurt.

Speaker 20 (13:39):
She walked into the hospital at her husband's fret her side.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
With that the elevator door came open and they're sitting
on a folding chair outside of Trauma Room one. Was
missus Kennedy in her bloody clothing.

Speaker 10 (13:54):
And just now we've received reports here at Parkman the
President was hit him the head.

Speaker 15 (13:58):
That's an unconfirmed report that the.

Speaker 20 (14:00):
President was hit in the head.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
I went into Trauma Room one, and as I opened
the door, the thing that struck me immediately was the
terrible appearance of the President who was lying underneath an
operating room light on a journey in Trauma Room one,
with his face toward the door and the light in
his face, and his head was completely covered in blood,

(14:26):
and he was attached to a respirator through an endo
trachal two that had been placed into his trichia. Immediately
as he entered the emergency room life and also to
an electric cardiographic monitor. And so that's what I saw immediately,
and I was horrified, of course by that, but I

(14:47):
was also simultaneously gratified and that I saw I was
not by myself that doctor Perry and doctor Baxter, my
two associates on the faculty, had arrived in trauma room
on immediately before I did, and they had just placed
a sterile surgical grape on the President's neck where there

(15:10):
was a small wound in the lower right hand portion
of his neck, and they had just begun making a transverse,
a straight across incision in his neck. As I walked
into the door, and as I walked by the gurney
on the left side of the gurney, Doctor Perry, who
was starting to make the incision, dropped his scalpel and

(15:34):
leaned over and picked up what's called an Army Navy
retractor off the surgical trade and handed it to me
as I walked by, and he said, Bob, would you
go and stand at the head of the gurney and
lean over the President's head and hold the retractor in
this incision we're making so we can see as he

(15:55):
and doctor Baxter were doing that exploration of that wound,
and so that put me in a position immediately above
the President's head, about probably sixteen to eighteen inches above
the horrendous wound in the back of the head that
I could look down into and into the inside of
his skull from where I stood, So that gave me

(16:18):
the best and the worst view of the wound of
anybody in Talma Room Wong.

Speaker 8 (16:37):
Seconds after JFK's motorcate had bolted from d V Plaza
towards Parkland Hospital in order to get the president as
quickly as possible to the hospital, Dallas police officer Joe M.
Smith raced behind the picket fence on the infamous Grassy Knoll.
There he encountered a quote unquote suspicious man lurking just

(17:01):
behind the fence where many witnesses believe the fatal shots
originated from. Now patrolman Smith, trained police officer. Very important
to remember that trained police officer pulled his side arm
from his holster and manned to know what this suspicious
man was doing. The man then took out a secret

(17:26):
service badge and he told Smith to keep looking quote
unquote interesting. Rich could be a secret Service agent whatever.
Several other witnesses reported running into a secret Service agent
as well. The reason to focus on Smith is because

(17:46):
he is a trained law enforcement officer. The same scenario
played out moments later at the rear of the Texas
school Book Depository. Remember I just said that the official
Warren report as Lee Harvey Oswald on the sixth floor
Texas school Book Depository. So at the rear of this

(18:08):
very same Texas school Book Depository, Dallas Police Department Sergeant DV.
Harkness also runs into several, as he describes them, well
dressed men. Police were ceiling off the complete area at
this point, and that included, of course, the rear of
the suspected shooting location of the Texas school Book Depository.

(18:32):
It didn't seem suspicious then when these quote unquote well
dressed men simply told them they were Secret Service agents.
Fair enough, nothing out of the ordinary, right, Okay, here's
the problem with all the cases of these secret Service
agents spotted in d LEE Plaza. In a nutshell, are

(18:53):
you ready? There were no Secret Service agents anywhere in
d V Plaza. Let me repeat that for all the naysayers,
there were no secret Service agents anywhere in de Plaza.
I had interviewed NASA physicist G. Paul Chambers.

Speaker 21 (19:14):
I had a chance to talk with you. Robert Blake
headed Semney committing. He said he checked every federal agency.
There was no federal agent of any kind on that
grass and hall. So someone was there with official credentials
who no one wants to take responsibility for someone who
shouldn't have been there. There was no federal agent of

(19:36):
any kind on that grass and.

Speaker 22 (19:38):
All over the pool who would have the informatan left
the governor have been lower for the operating room, in
the private unper bill in the American Free room at
Parkland Hospital. There room me go far.

Speaker 7 (19:51):
Over considering the number of enemies that he had in
the military and intelligence circles in the United States. Lord
knows they had reasons to get rid of him. They
had opportunities to have access to arms, to reach out

(20:11):
to the kinds of weird and confused individuals who can
be recruited for that kind of work.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Did Kennedy trust the CIA?

Speaker 22 (20:29):
Not?

Speaker 23 (20:29):
After the May of Pigs, I know we brought mccomy in, yes,
who was very conservative, but truthful, straight as an arrow,
and very solid and preventing rogue agents money off of
the family.

Speaker 9 (20:50):
Julia.

Speaker 6 (20:50):
There was something very alarming in your book as well, Sir,
as I read it, the CIA, just prior to the
launch of the Bay of Pigs, had done its own
study of whether the plan would succeed or not, and
they came to the conclusion that it wouldn't succeed. But
they never told JFK.

Speaker 7 (21:07):
Then that's right. It was only long long afterwards that
we heard about that study.

Speaker 6 (21:13):
What do you think they were trying to do? Were
they trying to manipulate him somehow?

Speaker 7 (21:17):
Who knows? The CIA was testing the new president. I
suppose wanted to prove to him how it's tough they were.
Cuba was not a threat to the United States, but
it was an irritant, and I suppose they wanted to
show Kennedy they had an answer to this irritant. They
weren't going to descend Amarican troops. They were just going

(21:40):
to let Cuban exiles who wanted to re invade and
reconquer their own country let them go ahead. It may
have sounded good to them on paper, but it was
foolish from the beginning to think that this little band
of exiles could defeat Castro's army.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
Many people spent cublate about the Bay of Pigs, that
they were trying to draw the United States into all
war against Cuba.

Speaker 7 (22:07):
Do you feel that way?

Speaker 18 (22:08):
Oh?

Speaker 7 (22:08):
I think the Cuban exiles were not so sure the
CIA was. Although the CIA was so confident a victory,
they might have been. But yes, the Cuban exiles thought
that they could go back and take over the government,
take over the country, get back to their land that
Castro had taken from them, get back their business enterprises

(22:31):
that Castro had taken from them. And they wanted Kennedy
to be drawn into a war that the United States
would win, forgetting that Cuba was backed by the other
nuclear power, the Soviet Union, and it would have been
crazy for Kennedy to start a war with the Soviet

(22:51):
Union's ally Cuba.

Speaker 22 (24:43):
I used you, late, a seligm. President Kennedy has been
given what use you today at Blackland Hospital in an
effort to save his life after he and Governor John
Connolly Obtector work shop in an assassination attempt.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
You knew General to May.

Speaker 23 (25:04):
I met him. He sat around the table when I
was present. At least on one occasion but contrary to
the movie Thirteen Days, the Joint Chiefs did not attend
our daily excon meetings. Only the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs,
Dude Maxwell Taylor, and he was a scholar. He was

(25:26):
a reasonable man. He was not as hardheaded or hawkish
or eager to go to war as LeMay and some
of the others on the Joint Chiefs.

Speaker 8 (25:40):
In the movie Thirteen Days, General to May is kind
of portrayed as an excessive hawk. To put it mildly,
do you think that's pretty good?

Speaker 23 (25:54):
General May I thought we could win a nuclear award.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
He thought, well, if we have a nuclear war.

Speaker 23 (26:02):
We'll probably kill three hundred million Russians and they'll only
kill one hundred million Americans. So we went the other
Joint Chiefs. Remember was the chief of Naval Operations who
wanted to take Kennedy's restrained passive blockade and have those
destroyers which are in the ring around Cuba go out

(26:24):
and look for Russian ships and shoot them on board them.
And when McNamara said that's not the way to do it,
Admiral Andressange's name complained and went to the White House
and made his case to Kennedy that that's what should
be done and that's how ambassadors to Portugal are made.

Speaker 6 (26:52):
Was there a real thread of that fear running through
the administration that perhaps that who could take place in
the United States?

Speaker 7 (27:00):
There's no joke when the Joint Chiefs before that first
week was over, demanded a session with Kennedy. When they
joined chiefs met with Kennedy, Curtis Lenet a man who
believed in nuclear war because he thought even if we
suffered hundreds of thousands or millions of death, questions would

(27:21):
suffer even more. So he was Curtis Lenae. That's what
he thought his victory and more. He lectured Kennedy on
what he thought the quarantine, a combination of diplomacy and
the blockade was too weak a response and the American
people wouldn't like it. Can you imagine a military chief
lecturing the President of the United States on what the

(27:43):
American people think.

Speaker 24 (27:58):
I think that paid and political talk were being considered
by a lot of our friends, and Dineral have made
a pretty weak response to as I'm sure a lot
of our own citizens.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
Would feel that way too. You have a pretty bad
face in the present God, a pretty bad face with

(28:39):
I don't share your view that if we knock off Cuba,
they're going to knock off the land.

Speaker 24 (28:44):
We don't do anything in Newba, then they're gonna push
on to land and push real harder because they got
us under round.

Speaker 4 (28:53):
If we take military action against Cuba, what do you
think the reply it would be. I don't think they're
gonna make it reply. I would wait. The very situation
is just like it's a man. They make a move,
we're going to fight. So I see no other solution.
This is almost a matter. But I just I'll see

(29:14):
you have a solution except recillary provective right now.

Speaker 7 (29:19):
When Kennedy finally left that meeting and went on into
the hall, he ran into me, and he was upset,
and he said to me, bear in mind, this is
this is this the Friday the nineteenth, He said to me,
He pointed to that room and said they're getting things
in worse shape. And he said to me, you and

(29:40):
Bobby have got to get this finished soon. But turned
out that he left his tape recorder calling when he
left the room, and we have recorded for history and
what le May and the Marine Commandant David Hue and
some others had to say, with Kennedy out of the room,

(30:03):
was pretty close to treason us and blasting him. And
I'm told that Gwinn Krushe finally pulled the missiles out
of Cuba without the United States firing a shot. Not
only was Castro upset that he hadn't been consulted, but
the joint chiefs were upset that they didn't have their

(30:23):
chance for a war.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
You pull the rug right out of the cross what
you need, he finally.

Speaker 7 (30:40):
Got around the word escalated.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
He doing the goddamn thing pace and you act start problem,
went freaking out with the missile. Your screw you went out,
left your screw.

Speaker 7 (30:53):
Sco scool screwed some about think some way he could
either do the sound of a dish, sir.

Speaker 6 (31:03):
When you submitted the letter, I gave it to.

Speaker 7 (31:05):
JFK, who approved it, and he and Secretary of State
gave Bobby instructions to a company delivery of the letter
with two oral messages. Number one, time is short. We're
making this letter in a positive way of agreeing more
or less with Khrusha's letter. So this should end it.

(31:28):
And we better ended fast because you never know when
the hawks will rise. Presidents in charge of government. But
we don't want the Hawks to take over and start
bombing and innovating by Tuesday. This is Saturday. The other
message was, we can't in a matter of a few
days persuade NATO to whi's done, which acts by unanimous consent.

(31:53):
We can't get pack by tuesday to pull off the
initials in Turkey. But because the president in the United
States had previously decided to take those missiles out of Turkey,
We're not going to do it at the point of
a gun, or nobody will have any confidence in us
after that. Mister Khrushaw, if it makes him feel better,
can be assured that it will be done in a

(32:15):
matter of months, if we can just get this crisis finished.
So Bobby went to do Benn and with the letter
and with those two messages. And I woke up the
next morning and turned on my radio and the khushaff
was taking the miffile.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
I stood there while they completed that exploration of the
wound that I'd pointed out here on the right side
of the neck for about took about twelve minutes to
complete that. And as they were completing that and saw
that there was no damage to the internal juji vane
or the corouded artery, which is what they were looking

(33:03):
for uh and had put a tracheostomy tube in to
replace the into tracheal tube. Doctor Clark, our neurosurgeon, who
had entered the room, had been standing by the electric
cardiographic monitor and he looked at it just as they
were completing the exploration and he said, Mac, you can

(33:24):
stop now to doctor Perry, he's golm because he had
just flat lined on the electric cardiographic mode.

Speaker 10 (33:33):
That's the moment.

Speaker 22 (33:33):
That's the moment.

Speaker 10 (33:34):
We had a both been coming in without puting directly
through apart from hospital.

Speaker 20 (33:39):
The President of the United States.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
This is a situation room.

Speaker 25 (33:46):
The relay following you side, we have report quoting mister
killed up in Dallas that the president is dead, that
he died about thirty five minutes gon have that over
correct that correct.

Speaker 7 (34:14):
He also had enemies among organized crime, as did his
brother Bobby JFK.

Speaker 9 (34:22):
And Bobby had gone after the mafia. They promised that
they were elected they would continue going after the mafia,
and they did go after As it turns out, the
FBI got Carlos Marcello's confession to JFK's assassination back in

(34:43):
nineteen eighty five, years before the Oliver Stone Moon was conceived,
let alone made and the FBI hid Marcello's confession to
the assassination to controlling and working, I mean Ruby was
working for Marcello. David even brought Oswald to meet Marcello.
All these incredible details. The FBI had that much of

(35:06):
that information on tape, all of it witnessed, and they've settled.
God Fan landing him was an ordinary person who kind
of briefly fell on hard times, who was imprisoned with
Carlos Marcelo in nineteen eighty five. Marcelo admitted, yeah, I

(35:26):
had the son of Mitch killed. When I would do
it again, he was a point of my side. I
wish I could have done it myself.

Speaker 13 (35:40):
A major accomplishment of the Senate during the past year
and a half has been the throating out of racketeers
Rudlum's and managed to hire union busters who have incorporated
the union RUPM.

Speaker 15 (35:50):
You borrowed the money in such exchuchy, and we paid
the money in such chuchy.

Speaker 11 (35:54):
You know, w what did your accountant make this study?

Speaker 26 (35:57):
When did he make it?

Speaker 20 (35:58):
Yeah, can I make it.

Speaker 11 (36:01):
Last few days?

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Lot today he made.

Speaker 20 (36:03):
His determination and you can't tell it.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
So we talked to beside you, mister Hopper.

Speaker 20 (36:07):
And the other channel.

Speaker 11 (36:09):
If you laugh at can.

Speaker 13 (36:10):
Preenator your accountant, I'm asking you the only one who
made the report of the committee about the what your
accountant found and now we find that there.

Speaker 20 (36:17):
Are no records.

Speaker 9 (36:18):
Many people don't realize and they forget or they never
knew that JFK M. Bobby made their reputations by going
after the mafia in the nineteen fifties. It went after
the head of the Teamsters, Jimmy Hoffer. Haffa was very
corrupt and took a lot of money from the Teamsters,
essentially let the mafia use the teamsters huge pension funds

(36:40):
it's piggybank, and that financed a lot of the mafia
building and casinos in Las Vegas.

Speaker 13 (36:47):
Only Jimmy Hoffer can rejoice at his continued good luck.
Honest hunior members and the general public can only regard
it as a tragedy. Constructive labor legislation, however, for the
reform of this general area will be brought again to
the Congress next year. In the meantime, those who defeated

(37:10):
this bill will bear a heavy responsibility for a racketeering
that will continue to go on on the.

Speaker 9 (37:17):
Check as soon as as JFK became president. Very short
time afterwards, and as Bobby and his brother Bobby was
appoint Attorney General, I and S you know, needed to
make up for what they had not done the immigration service.
And so with Bobby's blessing, when Marcelo went to for
his his monthly meeting as a as a green card

(37:39):
you know, alien, he he was then arrested, taken, not
dumped in the jungle, taken to the airport. Marcelo lived
in style in Guatemala. You had to think certificate. But
then the publicity in Guatemala became overwhelming and so he
had to be kicked out of Guatemala. So he was
escorted to the border. The other countries didn't want to
take him, and so Marcelo did wind up trudging through

(38:03):
the jungle in is in these two hundred dollars Gucci
loafers with his only with his attorney, and if you
can imagine, the most powerful godfather in America reduced to
trudging through the jungle, fearing for his life and swearing
all the time eternal vengeance against the Kennedys that had
done this to him, and that's what would bring us

(38:26):
to Dallas.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
Later.

Speaker 9 (38:32):
The assassination wasn't a Dallas thing. They were going to
kill JFK in Chicago three weeks before Dallas retired trip
to Motorcake canceled. They were going to kill him in Tampa, Florida,
four days before Dallas from JFK when they had with Motorcate,
same plan, same people, different hatsies, each city, Chicago, Tampa, Dallas.
But so you know, the it wasn't like a Dallas thing.

(38:56):
The assassination.

Speaker 27 (39:02):
Senator Kennedy and his wife Jacqueline vote in his native
town Boston, Massachusetts. Photographers and reporters are all around them. Well,
this is the man who in the next twenty four
hours may become President of the United States and she
first lady.

Speaker 26 (39:17):
Of the land.

Speaker 9 (39:26):
Any Democratic American candidate, whether it's JFK or Barack Obama,
needs mafia help to carry Chicago is just pretty ludicrous.
And more than that, historians have actually looked at the
precinct level, including the precincts in question, and have just

(39:46):
showed that you're based on the votes for other candidates
and that sort of thing in other races that there
was no fixing of the vote in Chicago, now it
was a very close selection. Richard Nixon could have decided
Va simply won that election if Nixon had spoken out
on the arrest of Martin Luther King Junior in Georgia,

(40:09):
where he had been arrested on some minor violation, was
being sent to a prison in very rural South Georgia,
which is a very racist part of the country. Black
people at the time had a very tough time in
Georgia prisons. In fact, the chain gang era had really
not completely.

Speaker 26 (40:24):
Died at the time.

Speaker 9 (40:25):
You would still see the road crews working and sometimes
they would be chained and sometimes not, and prisoners would
die all the time, especially if they were black or
considered troublemakers like King was. So there was a lot
of thought that as the Party of Lincoln, Nixon would
speak out against this injustice. King's wife was certain King
would be killed in silence. JFK called Corena Scott King

(40:50):
and then Bobby. He did have Bobby contact the judge
extra legal to be sure, but Bobby was not Attorney
General then this is during the campaign, and so he
took public action and private action to be sure that
Martin Luther King wasn't sent to that South Georgia prison
to be killed. There were several states that were by

(41:10):
such close margins that if Nixon had only spoken out
and had only gotten the same percentage of the black
vote that he had gotten four years earlier in the
fifty sixth election that his ticket had gotten, he would
have been decisively elected president.

Speaker 7 (41:27):
The fact is that Kennedy had enemies in the right wings.

Speaker 15 (41:44):
Joseph Milkeer had inherited some money. Professional racist, a very
sharp guy who liked to make money off of his racism.
Apparently Milker was involved potentially because since he had some
money of his own, he could be trusted to carry money.
Miltier was caught on Miami police undercover tape almost two

(42:04):
weeks before JFK's murder.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
Canna just time here and they're going eight kings or
something like that, and they stop kind of speaking.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
Nobody goes it is why it isn't there is a
better way for coming as doing.

Speaker 20 (42:56):
All right?

Speaker 4 (43:00):
And these wars.

Speaker 22 (43:07):
They try to kill.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
And Teddy's gonna be a hard save a servant. They've
never cover all that day their data. Nason save data
that Meason allows down, come do mat and take the fire.

Speaker 20 (43:30):
Oh, they'll figure that's somebody an hour.

Speaker 16 (43:32):
That the god.

Speaker 15 (43:49):
The FBI got a copy of the dat before the assassination.
I've talked to the FBI agent, Donald Adams, who was
said to investigate mil Tier, and they didn't tell at
him some things. Hoover apparently himself didn't want that tape given.
So the FBI agent set to investigate Miltier, he wasn't
told about the Tampa threat, he wasn't told about the tape,

(44:10):
and he doesn't try to interview Miltier because that would have.

Speaker 20 (44:12):
Tipped him up.

Speaker 15 (44:13):
He actually kind of bumped into him on the street.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Way from me.

Speaker 10 (44:22):
I was feeling.

Speaker 15 (44:30):
Of course, then when JFK is killed from a building
with a high powered rifle and someone's picked up within
the hour, Jaegar Hoover can never let it be null
that he knew about that ahead of time and personally
bots the investigation by withholding information from his own agent.
So what you had shortly after JFK's murder, you had
Jaigar Hoover having to hide information about Joseph Milteer.

Speaker 9 (45:03):
We got the information directly from Dave Powers when he
was the head of the JFK Presidential Library in Boston.
We arranged for Tom to have a private sit down
with him. Tom, you know, went into the office and
Powers pointed to a rocking chair and Tom sat down
in this nice rocking chair with a presidential emblem, and

(45:24):
Dave Power said, you know that is jf That's one
of JFK's rocking chairs from the White House. But Tom
was just stunted when Powers started telling him about seeing
the shots from the old Tom was also stunned when
Power said, you know, he and Kenny o'donald were told
they had to change their stories for the good of
the country. And Power said he did not know what

(45:48):
that meant at the time, but it was made clear
to him this was national security, It was for the
good of the country. And it was really not until
Tom sat down to talk with Dave Powers all those
years later, I believe it was not that Power has
taught me realized why it was to the good of
the country and why for to prevent World War three.
Just one year after the Cuban missile crisis, he had

(46:11):
to basically lie about what he saw. Now again, if
people should wonder, well, why should we really believe Lamar
Waldron and Tom Hartman on powers of O'Donnell. We've got
pretty good backup there. The head of our Lower House
of Congress in the nineteen eighties was Tip O'Neill from Boston,

(46:31):
most powerful congressman in America in the nineteen eighties, and
he was close to JFK. As where powers of O'Donnell
and powers o'donald told that to Tip O'Neill. Tip O'Neill
put it in his autobiography years ago that they saw
the shots from the Knoll and were told they had
to change their story. You're starting to get reports that

(46:55):
there were some sort of official Cuban Castro Cuban connection
did JFK's murder. And you know that if that reaches
the public or the conservative hawkish members of Congress, they're
going to call for an invasion of Cuba. You've got
one ready, But hey, if you invade Cube under these circumstances,
you know you're triggering World War three. And so if

(47:17):
you're Lyndon Johnson, what do you do? What Lyndon Johnson
did is Hey, We've got to cut off any real
public or thorough investigation of the assassination, or it's going
to lead to World War three. People should know too.
Lyndon Johnson did not want the Warren Commission. J Edgar
Hoover did not want the Warren Commission. Hoover and LBJ

(47:37):
were friends. They wanted to do the investigation themselves.

Speaker 16 (47:41):
You know who wanted the Warren Commission.

Speaker 9 (47:43):
Bobby Kennedy's associates. They're the ones who wanted the Warren commissions.

Speaker 11 (47:48):
Nick, Yeah, I owned you to know it.

Speaker 28 (47:51):
I made that announcement. May I read it to you?
The Betterdent announce that he is appointing a special Commission
to study and report on all the facts and circumstances
relating to the assassination the late.

Speaker 18 (48:04):
President John F.

Speaker 20 (48:05):
Kennedy.

Speaker 28 (48:10):
The Federal Bureau of Investigation is making complete investigation with facts.
The special Commission will have before it all evidence uncovered.
But the Federal Bureau of Investigation, you're my man on
that commission, and you're gonna do it. I can't arrest you,

(48:31):
and I'm not gonna put the f Y on you,
but you that damn show going to serve I'll tell
you that.

Speaker 29 (48:42):
It's really important for people to understand that there were
several locations that shots were being fired from. I believe
that there were shots from the back of the President.
I believe that there were shots from the front. I

(49:04):
believe that there were two locations from the front. One
was the Grassy Knoll and the other the location that
the fatal headshot came from, which is not the Grassy Knoll.
I received over thirty six hundred real time hours at
specialized training in just the Fuield of forensics and was

(49:29):
awarded the Certification of Senior Crime Scene Analysts. I definitely
could take the training that I had on working homicide,
which was almost exclusively what I did, and translate that
information to the Kennedy assassination. I think it was in
maybe David Lipton's book that had a picture of frame

(49:51):
three thirteen that has the blood spatter. I walked over
and just looked at it. I said, Okay, that's backspatter.
That's blood that goes from the entry wound is projected
back towards the direction the force was traveling from. In
other words, it goes back towards the shooter. Like most people,

(50:15):
when you think about the shots from the right and
from the front. What's the front? Where's the front? The
front is not the grassy all So if you don't
know where the front is, then you don't know where
the shot came from. Normally, when you do trajectory analysis

(50:39):
to determine where the shot came from, you would start
with the entry point. Because you're at an autopsy. There's
an X ray, here's a hole, there's a hole. You
line the two holes up, or the pathologist puts a
dowel at autopsy through the head. They can measure that
exact angle it's traveling through the head, and that gives

(51:02):
them a trajectory. The problem is we don't have a
specific point. We don't have an autopsy with a little
dow measuring the angle of impact. What we have is
a big area in the front and a big area
in the back. I started out by drawing what would

(51:25):
be an overhead of a skull if you were looking
down on a head. And I just draw an oval,
and you just take that oval and you divide it
into four parts by drawing across and then the lemp
lives of the head, and that gives you four quadrants.

(51:48):
And so what I did is I made that entire
front quadrant the entry, and then the entire rear quadrant
the exit. So imagine that it's coming in just to
the side on the forehead as you're looking down right here, okay,

(52:12):
and that it's traveling that to come out right behind
the ear. That would give you one trajectory line. Now,
as you move from in front and then you moved across,
every one of those locations is going to be another
trajectory line until you finally are over here where it

(52:35):
would just come in in front of the ear and
exit at midline in the back. What you've created is
a large area called a trajectory cone, and the shooter
is somewhere in that cone. The next step is that
you would take the president as he's in the limit,

(53:00):
you would place him in the limousine. Now in d
Lee Plaza, they had Canning who was a NASA scientist.
The Warrant Commission asked him to provide measurements on the
location of President Kennedy's head and he did so. There's

(53:20):
another person that's done that. His name is Dale Myers,
and Dale Myers has done this. Now these two men
are very close, very close in their computations. So they
measured how much is the head tilted down, how much

(53:42):
is the head tilted to the side, and how much
is the head turned from profile as reference to Zuppruiter.
So if a suppruiter is at a ninety degree angle,
he is turned beyond the ninety degree angle a certain degree.
Now both of these men came up with twenty six degrees.

(54:08):
So if you take a compass a protractor, you can
put this down on a map of da le Plasa.

Speaker 30 (54:20):
You can.

Speaker 29 (54:21):
Measure that angle at ninety degrees plus another twenty six degrees,
and you have now indicated on your graphic the direction
the president is facing. He's looking down and his body
is tilted. He's over twenty six degrees. If you were
to straighten him up, he would be looking twenty six

(54:44):
degrees from profile to Zapruter. Now twenty six degrees beyond
Zapruiter makes him looking at the south corner of the
triple overpath. That trajectory cone can then be placed within
the plaza to determine where the shooter could be. Now

(55:05):
beyond that, you're going to have injury to the other
quadrants of the head. So we know that we're restricted
to that field that angle those trajectories. So you limit
yourself mathematically to a certain rain that the shooter can

(55:31):
be within, and if you step outside of it, then
you're going to have injury to another part of the head.
So I did that, and the grassy ole is not
within that area. Not within that area. That eliminates the

(55:51):
grassy knowle as being the originator but the fatal headshot.
But here's why a shot from the front is going
to create a back into the left. It doesn't have
to be straight on to push it that way. Have
you ever played pool? Do you know anyone that plays snooker?

Speaker 4 (56:14):
All?

Speaker 15 (56:14):
Right?

Speaker 29 (56:16):
Ever get a ball and made it angle into the pocket?
Because when you have a round surface and you strike
that round surface, it creates a momentum that is angular,
and so it goes forward or with the force, but

(56:37):
it also angles away from the direction that the force
is traveling from. So if you've ever played pool, then
you already know why it went back into the left.
Although the shot is coming almost directly straight on from
the front. I think that we definitely have enough shots

(57:01):
to show that there's a conspiracy and that there were
probably at least three shooters in the plauza that day
firing shots. This is just like going to trials. My
job when I'm at a trial and I'm on the
witness stand is an expert, is to educate the jury,
give them the information that I have and let them

(57:24):
come to a conclusion. I tell them my expert conclusion.
They can disagree or they can agree. It is up
to them. And if I want them to agree, then
I need to give them a persuasive argument with a
clear understanding of how I've reached my decision. So that

(57:44):
is all I can hope to do. It's okay if
people disagree with me. I have no problem with that.
I'm happy that anyone brings any kind of focus to
this because I think that the people that hear the
contradictory information are going to want to find out for
them else one of these two experts not agreeing and
look into it a little more. Well, Absolutely, the magic

(58:08):
bullet is ridiculous. I mean, bullets do not behave the
way that they're saying that they wanted to hate. And
of course the person saying that was a politician and
no forensic training, had absolutely no idea how bullets react.
And hope that the general public that also had no
training would just accept that. Of course, we know that
it didn't fly, and I think people are a lot

(58:31):
smarter sometimes They're politician has given them credit for The
Dallas Police Department did what they could. I think in
some places they could have done better. I think that
in some places they might not have adhere to their
own written standards. I think when it was taken away

(58:53):
from them and the FBI did it, the FBI had
the mindset that Dallas PD did, and that was, we
already have the person that's done it. The minimal work
has to be done.

Speaker 26 (59:05):
To prove this.

Speaker 29 (59:07):
There's not any question in anybody's mind. Everything looked like
it was tied together. The Warrant Commission had an answer,
and they wanted validation, just like you said, they wanted
things that would prove them right. And I think that's
what they looked at, and that they didn't look at
things that would cloud the issue for them. If Oswald

(59:29):
had lived and there had been a trial, things may
be a little different because I do believe that at trial,
whoever was running that trial would have wanted the loose
ends tied up, and that would have meant more information
would have come to the forefront. I think when he
was killed it changed the scope and the way they

(59:54):
were looking at that particular investigation.

Speaker 31 (59:59):
My husband had made friends and worked with a man
who was retired as a military sniper, and he was
at our home one evening, had no idea what my
background was. As far as he was concerned, I was
a housewife. So he started talking about his life as
a sniper, because that was his life work. So I
told him, what if I would want to shoot someone,

(01:00:21):
but I want to blame it on somebody else. I
don't want for them to be constantly looking for me.
I want to make sure somebody else gets to blame
for it. He said, well, if you're wanting to shoot
them and you want to blame it on someone else,
you're going to have to make some plans about when
is a person accessible. And I said, I can do
it outside because I have a place where I know
that they will be and they'll be outside. So he said, well,

(01:00:44):
you would probably need three people. Think of it as
a triangle. You put one person at each point. One
point would be you shooting the person, then one point
would be the person you want to blame, and then
another point would be the distract, because when you are
a sniper, there are four really important things that you

(01:01:06):
have to remember. You have to do one shot when killed.

Speaker 10 (01:01:10):
That's what he said. He said, you need to know
that you.

Speaker 31 (01:01:12):
Can do the job. You need to know that there's
concealment or some way that you are not going to
be noticed, that people are not going to see you.
You have to be able to get away. And the
way that you can do that is you have someone
that creates a distraction. Everybody looks that way, and then
you shoot and they don't see you. In the midst

(01:01:33):
of explaining all of this to me, he suddenly stops
and looks at me and says, you're talking about the
Kennedy assassination, aren't you. And suddenly he said that, And
I was how did you know?

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
We talk?

Speaker 31 (01:01:48):
We talk, That's the only thing he said. Well, years
later I had an opportunity to speak with Craig Roberts.
Craig Roberts wrote one Shot when Killed the book. He
was all sniper. So he came to me and says,
would you like to go to Dali Blaza with you?
So we go to Daily Plaza. He walks on the
other side. He walks around and he stops at this

(01:02:11):
particular point. Craig Robert stops at the exact same spot,
turns and says, if I were going to do it,
this is where I would have been. It was just
so nice to have him validate that same spot. Well,
if it was the best place for him, then it
was probably the best place for the shooter in nineteen
sixty three.

Speaker 30 (01:02:39):
You're a sniper, right, could Oswald have done the shooter?

Speaker 26 (01:02:44):
Jobby?

Speaker 16 (01:02:45):
Did you know we get asked that or I get
asked that question a lot. Sure, let's put it.

Speaker 32 (01:02:58):
Let's put it this way.

Speaker 16 (01:02:59):
Let's put it this way.

Speaker 32 (01:03:00):
I would not put myself if I was the loan,
if I was by myself going to shoot anybody, I
would not put myself in that position up sixty seventy
feet up in the air, shooting at an angle. The
hardest shot and from for a sniper or anybody to
a hunter or hunter is to shoot from high to low.

(01:03:21):
There's too many variables.

Speaker 9 (01:03:23):
You know.

Speaker 32 (01:03:23):
The easiest shot would have been for the target is
coming down Houston Street, right towards the towards where you
would be positioned. That's where I would have taken the shot.
Why do you know why did Oswald or whoever was
in the building wait until the car was going away
from you? Moving target inside a moving vehicle, you know,
one hundred and eighty seven feet away. That's just you know,

(01:03:45):
the superior shooters of today couldn't do that. I mean,
I I would never, I would never attempt something like that.
But you know that's I think that's the reason why
there was no shots taken, because it would have given
the position away.

Speaker 13 (01:04:00):
I think they.

Speaker 32 (01:04:01):
Waited, and they whoever they were, whoever the other shooters were,
they waited until they were in a position where they
could all triangulate into one spot. I mean, that's a
typical standard military operations. You put people in front you
people people on the side, and people behind, so the
target can't go anywhere. It can't stop, it can't back up,
it can't go forward. Wherever it goes, it's going to
run into a you know, the field of fire is

(01:04:22):
going to be right in front of them.

Speaker 30 (01:04:24):
Where would you have if you were in charge of
the shooting teams that day, where would you have placed them?

Speaker 32 (01:04:29):
I would put h I would put a shooter low
flat trajectory somewhere in front to the side of the target,
behind a grassy knoll by the fence. You've got concealment,
you've got you've got nobody can see you. I mean,
you're behind a fence. I would be I would certainly

(01:04:50):
would weigh in a some type of disguise like a
police uniform or you know, a suit and have some
type of identification.

Speaker 16 (01:04:58):
I would put.

Speaker 32 (01:04:58):
Another shooter in the Doubt X building, which is adjacent
to the Texas school Book Depository on the second floor.
Perhaps the target makes the turn that goes down Elm Street.
You simply point the barrel of the rifle towards the
lane of traffic and just wait for him to show
show up in your crosshairs and you pull the trigger.

Speaker 16 (01:05:16):
I would put a shooter.

Speaker 32 (01:05:17):
And you've talked to Sherry Feaster, I am in complete
agreements where she puts the fatal headshot coming from the south.

Speaker 16 (01:05:24):
No, that's a great spot.

Speaker 32 (01:05:26):
You've got great cover and concealment. And then the final
place I would put somebody would be if I had
multiple people at my disposable disposal, I would put somebody
at the west end of the pick of fence. Again,
you've got two people in front. You got two people
on the back, and you've got one person on the
right side. You can't can't put anybody on the left side,

(01:05:47):
there's too far of a shot. But I'm gonna put
six people in there. I'm gonna put six people, one
or two with with a with a spotter and a
security officer. Probably the guy on the in the on
the pick of fence is going to have a security
person to know with him so that he can, you know,
in case he's focusing in on the target, somebody doesn't
walk up behind him.

Speaker 16 (01:06:07):
So I think you've got to I think.

Speaker 32 (01:06:08):
You've got six, six or seven people out there, and
and not if not everybody had to take a shot.

Speaker 30 (01:06:14):
Would there have been a way to coordinate the shots
so that they would all come in and around.

Speaker 29 (01:06:20):
The same time.

Speaker 14 (01:06:21):
Yes, yes, uh.

Speaker 32 (01:06:24):
The first the first shot that's fired is your signal
for everyone else to fire.

Speaker 16 (01:06:28):
And it sounds a perfect example.

Speaker 32 (01:06:31):
A good analogy is you, I'm sure you've been to
a military funeral of some kind where they have seven shooters,
seven military officers firing a twenty one guns to loot.
How many how many sounds do you hear?

Speaker 18 (01:06:44):
You hear one?

Speaker 32 (01:06:45):
But you hear three times, you hear three shots, three
rounds fired by seven men, it sounds like one shot.
And I think the people that were involved in this
shooting were highly trained military people who had done this before,
and yeah, they were well, well, this wasn't thought up overnight,
This was well planned out. These are professional hunters or

(01:07:07):
military people.

Speaker 18 (01:07:09):
Just it didn't make.

Speaker 32 (01:07:10):
Any sense why one guy who suddenly went from having
fired a rifle since the Marine Corps and suddenly was
able to pull off world class precision in this one
event in the history of the world, and since nineteen
sixty four, nobody's ever been able to produce the same
kind of results of the same rifle. That right there
sells the whole case down the drain. To me, the

(01:07:32):
single bullet theories propagated by Arlen Spector is the most
laughable thing since the snow White and seven Dwarf story
came out. Chief Curry, the Dallas police chief, he knew
Oswald was in town. He was given information by the
FBI agent in Dallas, the James Hosty, who was eventually
transferred to Kansas City, and said, you know, we knew

(01:07:55):
he was in town, and we just didn't think he
was capable of doing something like this, didn't transfer that
information to the Secret Service. So there's a lot of
culpability between the Dallas Police and the Dallas Sheriff and
the FBI. Well, I don't know if you know it
or not, but Bill Deker, the sheriff of Dallas, Texas,

(01:08:15):
told his men the morning of the assassination that his men,
anybody on the Sheriff's department was not to participate in
any way savee or form with security.

Speaker 16 (01:08:24):
Well, it's standard procedure.

Speaker 32 (01:08:26):
For example, when Hillary Clinton came to Lawrence, Kansas in
nineteen ninety or before whatever it was, before they got
in the White House, we supplemented our security with every
law enforcement agency within a forty mile radius. I mean,
here's the President of United States in a known hostile
environment that they already had information that it was threats
on his life, and driving right past the Sheriff's department,

(01:08:48):
and they're all outstanding and waving the flag and not
able to participate in any part of the security. I mean,
you would have supplemented the entire security. We've interviewed Jim
Level many times and he's I mean, he's a great
old guy, but you know. I asked him in front
of a thousand people one day at one of the
asks the assassination conferences in Dallas, and I said, we

(01:09:12):
understand through you know the stories, that you didn't keep
records of anybody and nobody kept records of Oswald's interrogation.
He said, point blank. He says, that's right, we didn't
keep notes. What do you mean you didn't take any notes.
Here's the most important prisoner you've ever had in your
entire career, and you didn't take notes of what he said.
And Jim Levell looked at me, dead straight in the
eye and says, well, it wouldn't have mattered. It wouldn't

(01:09:34):
have changed the outcome of the case. We know what
he said because they didn't care what he said. They
had their man and that was it. And anybody else
that throws up and says, hey, I'm a suspect and
the candidate assassination, Well, if you're not Oswald, you're not it.
You know, you didn't see Oswald do it. You didn't
see anything that was their mentality. And that's the sad
part is that that the investigation was flawed from the word,

(01:09:56):
from the moment that Oswald got away. I think that's
when the investigation just took a dive and everything suffered
as a result. I mean, they didn't care what everybody
else said if Oswald wasn't involved, and we don't want
to know about it. I mean, there's countless, countless stories
in the Warren Commission testimony that support that. I just
it's it's really sad.

Speaker 26 (01:10:18):
The magic bullet theory is a totally absurd bit of nonsense.
The bullet then entering his back, exiting from the front
of his neck, and then turning in mid air about

(01:10:38):
eighteen twenty inches, going back from left to right to
turn and strike condonly behind the right armfit right poster
your actionary area, as it is called in medical terms,
moving downward through the right lunge, piercing the right lung,
destroying four inches of the right fifth rip, exiting from
below nipple level, coming out, and then hooking back up

(01:11:00):
and around to go into the back of Conley's distal forearm,
the proximal portion of the wrist, exiting from the wrist
after breaking the radius, a large bone and a six
foot four Texan like Johnson like Kennedy, con then re
entering his left thigh, only to fall out quite fortuitously

(01:11:25):
from that wound that had gone deep into the thigh,
onto a stretcher. And then who stretcher below the stretcher
on the stretcher. I can't be sure. Darryl Tomlinson, I
believe was his name. Donna, is that right? The maintenance
man at the hospital try and finding the corridor's block,
moved the stretchers, and lo and behold there was the bullet.

(01:11:47):
Nobody had seen it before that Conley was operated on.
Conley was moved on a stretcher, and so on, and
there was the bullet. So the single bowl of theory,
which is the sine quinn of the Warrant Commission report.
And we Canadians and Americans speak the same language, sinaquonon
means baby. If you don't have that, you can't have

(01:12:07):
something else. There's no anzifs, maybe's whatever, moreovers, possibilities, rarities.

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
Or so on.

Speaker 26 (01:12:15):
You have a single bullet theory, and you can argue
for one the shooter. There's still a lot to show
that it wasn't. But if you don't have the single
bullet theory, then you don't have to go any further.
In so far as whether or not there were two shooters.
But just getting back for a moment to the single
bullet theory and Commission Exhibit thteen ninety nine. We've talked

(01:12:37):
about this trajectory. Let's talk about its weights. In its
pristine state, weighs one hundred and sixty grains, as found
a weigh one hundred and fifty eight point six greens.
Do the math two point four grains is exactly one
and a half percent. And yet we're told that that
bullet which left pieces of itself in Kennedy and Connolly,

(01:12:58):
all of those little fragments, amounts it to no more
than one and a half percent of the original way.
And then let's talk about its condition. That bullet broke
two bones. And remember Conley is not a female. We're
talking about a six foot four big bone check, destroying
four inches of a rib and producing a communuted fracture

(01:13:20):
of the radius one of the two bones from the
elbow to the wrist. And by the way, the radius
broadens as it comes down to meet the eight little
bones of the wrists. And you know how you remember
those never lowered till these pants, mother might come home.
That's what you remember that that radius. That radius broadens broadens,

(01:13:42):
you're talking about a big bone. So this bullet emerges pristine.
And they did an experiment. Someone had the decency to say, hey,
can a bullet to do this? So they shut that
same ammunition from a manely Kirk Carkano. And we'll get
to that weapon next. Shot that ammunition in the cotton
watting striking nothing, shot through a goat carcass, breaking a

(01:14:05):
rib to simulate Connie's rib fracture, a shot through Kennedy's
forearm to simulate Kennedy's radio fracture. And you should see
that picture. The bullet at the far right is a
bullet that broke a radius. The second bullet from the
right is the bullet that broke a rib of a goat.

(01:14:27):
And then the two bullets together toward the left, a
little bit went into the cotton watting. And then over
at the far left, and it's Christine Grandeurer, the hero
of the Warrant Commission Report Commission an Exhibit three ninety nine.
The magic bullet, the shot that really was the fatal

(01:14:48):
shot came from the front, I believe, from behind, to
pick a fence on the grassy knoll that's the shot
that entered in the right variety temporal area and then
move backwards. And studies have been done. They've shown radiologically
how the deposition of the fragments, the tiny fragments of
the bullet become more dense as that you know, that

(01:15:11):
bullet then traversed and moved backwards, and so you have that,
and then you do have the shot from the rear
that struck them in the back. And I think there
was another shot that hit him in the back of
the head. So I think that three shots struck the president.
I called and spoke with Audrey Bell, who was the
head nurse, and she was very nice, and she told

(01:15:35):
me that fragments of the bullet had been given by
the operating surgeons to her to convey to the FBI,
and she did that, and you know, she didn't measure
their way then, but you know, there alone you had fragments.
It certainly would have exceeded one and a half percent
of that bullet. Incredible. And while we're on the whole

(01:15:58):
business of the gun shot, talk about the alleged murder
weapon of Manica Carcano. Considered by every long gun expert
that I've ever spoken to and there are a lot
of them around here in our country, as you know.
And it's a joke they can you know. It's considered
to be the most inferior weapon of his genre developed

(01:16:20):
anywhere in the world. And nowhere is it a bigger
joke than in Italy, the country where it was developed.
It was called an instrument of love, not a weapon
of war. You have these eighteen surgeons working on Kennedy
in the Parkland Hospital o R. And these are guys,
you know, good old boys from Texas. They had no

(01:16:42):
dog in the race, as Walter Methos says in Oliver
Stone's that JFK the movie. And they called it as
they saw it, including the chairman of the Department of Neurosurgery,
who described torn, lacerated destroid portions of the right cerebellumba

(01:17:04):
and fractures in that part of the skull the cerebellum
is located. Puts your hand behind the base of your
skull on the right side, fill the bony prominence. If
you could go in on a straight line, that's where
you would encounter the cerebellum. Okay, And yet in the
autopsy by these two comedians Humes and Boswell. We've got

(01:17:25):
to talk about them. The cerebellum is intact and the
skull in the occipital region is intact. Okay, Now, whom
do you believe? You believe those Texas surgeons or do
you believe Humes and Boswell, two military pathologists, and who
are there with four star admirals and generals in the

(01:17:48):
UH in the autopsy room, and who had never done
a single gun shot wound autopsy in their entire professional careers.
Americans have. Everybody has to be told about this. It
has to be pounded into their skulls. You believe the
Warrant Commission report, then you believe the single bowler theory.

(01:18:09):
You believe in Humes and Boswell, you believe in the
manicur Kano. This is your burden, baby. You got to
carry those big heavy sacks on your back. Okay, that's
your burden. Unbelievable. I went in in nineteen seventy two
as the first non government related, non government sponsored forensicopologists

(01:18:32):
to examine the autopsy materials, and I pointed out something
that other people knew, but no one had ever said
anything about. Page one story August twenty four, nineteen seventy
two New York Times. Look it up. President's brain missing
and it remains missing to this day. And of course
the brain had been fixed and formula, and they did

(01:18:53):
go back two weeks later, which is the proper thing
to do. They've got to get the consistency to harden
to that of a hard boiled egg. Slice it like
you with a hard boiled egg to make a salad.
You can't examine it properly in the fresh state. It's
like a thick viscus. It'll kind of flow a little
bit from your hands, especially when it has been traumatized,
as Kennedy's brain was. And they went back two weeks later,

(01:19:16):
and you'll see and look in the autopsy report, cereal
coronal sections side to side of the brain are not
made in order to preserve the specimen. Preserve the specimen
for Jackie Kennedy's mantlepiece for his grandchildren, for whom you're
going to preserve the specimen for a museum. Unbelievable And

(01:19:37):
then the wait, thank you, Brent for bringing that up.
Your brain as an adult male mind thirteen fifty fourteen hundred.
But the brain which had lost significant portions, you know,
brain splattered, splattered, So the brain in his fixed state
weighed fifteen hundred grams. You have a fifteen hundred grand brain.

(01:20:00):
They have an intact brain that has scollen and an
exemintist somebody is living for a while and the brain
swells getting not getting enough oxygen. Yes, it can reach
that weight when you have a brain that is not fixed,
it was not adematist and has lost portions of itself.
Fifteen hundred unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (01:20:22):
We asked one of the Secret Service agents about that
why they had happened to come to Parkling, because we
had not had any previous notification of that, and they
said that generally when they went on a trip with
the President, they would find out where along the motorcade
route the nearest hospital was particularly looking for a university hospital,

(01:20:47):
it was associated with a medical school or a hostle.
That's why they had identified Parkland, which was associated with
Southwestern Medical School. After he was pronounced dead by doctor Clark,

(01:21:09):
everybody in the room left, and there had been a
number of people other than doctor Perry, doctor Baxter, and
I who had accumulated in Comma Room one during this procedure,
and they all left immediately after the President was pronounced
dead except Doctor Baxter and I. As the crowd was

(01:21:31):
leaving the room, they pushed the journey with the President
on it, so that Doctor Baxter and I were pushed
against the wall by the gurney and had to wait
for everybody else to get out. And then after everybody
had left, and just as we were about to then
move around the head of the gurney and leave ourselves,
the door to commer Room one came open and a

(01:21:54):
priest came in, when we later found out his father Hubert,
to administer the last rights, and we would have had
to almost push him out of the way in order
to leave the room, so we simply froze against the
wall again and stood there. We felt inappropriate, but we
couldn't get out without knocking the priest down, so we

(01:22:16):
didn't try to do that, and we had to stand
there and listen to the last rights, and all I
could hear father Huber say, and he anointed the President's
foreheady and covered his head, which was covered with a
sheet at that time, and anointed his forehead and leaned
over to him, and the only words I could hear

(01:22:38):
him say was if thou livest into the President's left ear,
and then I couldn't hear anything else that he said
after that, and after he completed that, immediately after, Missus
Kennedy again came into the room and stood by the
side of the gjourney as Father Huber was putting all

(01:22:58):
of his material that he had back into his little
bag he had used to perform the Last Lives. And
I couldn't hear what Missus Kennedy said because she's spoken
such a low voice. But from the context of Father
Huber's answer to her, she apparently asked him if he
had received Last Lives. Father Huber said, yes, I have

(01:23:22):
given him conditional absolution, and with that Missus Kennedy grimaced.
She didn't say anything, but she clearly was not pleased
with having heard that sort of statement by Father Hubert,
but she didn't say anything. And with that, she stood
there for a moment silently and exchanged rings from her

(01:23:44):
finger to his finger and back and forth between the
two fingers. She stood there for a moment more, didn't
say anything, and then walked to the end of the journey,
where the President's right foot was protruding out from underneath
the sheet that had covered him. She stood by his
foot for a moment, then leaned over and kissed his foot,

(01:24:06):
and then walked out of comer Room one. And that
was the last that doctor Baxter and I saw of
either President Kennedy or Missus Kennedy, because we promptly left
the room at that time too.

Speaker 20 (01:24:20):
I have just talked to Father Oscar Hubert of the
Only Trinity Catholic Church, and another priest tell me that
a pair of men have just administered the last rights
of the Catholic Church, the President Kennedy.

Speaker 3 (01:24:41):
When I entered the room, he had been cut out
of his clothing by the nurses immediately. That's a standard
practice for any injured patient so that you can see
the entire body and be certain that you see where
all the injuries are. So that standard practice to any
patient who's been injured out of their clothes using bandage scissors.

(01:25:04):
You just rip up the clothing and take them out.
So he was unclothed when I saw him, as all
trauma patients would be. When I entered the room, Doctor
Baxter was on the President's left side, standing just above
the wound in his neck, and Doctor Perry, who was
the operating surgeon, was on the president's right side, and

(01:25:28):
had just placed this surgical grape on the president's neck,
and they had begun the incision, so they were on
each side of the President at that point. And Doctor
Perry handed me a retractor and asked me to go
stand at the head of the gurney immediately above the
president's head and hold the retractor, lean over and hold

(01:25:49):
the retractor in the upper edge of the wound that
they were making to explore this injury in his neck.
Put us all in an old group of three right
around the present, that's head and upper body. Jenkins, our
antesthesiology professor, was sitting on a stool right beside me
at the head of the journey, and I was standing

(01:26:12):
up next to doctor Jenkins, and he was working an
antithesi machine and squeezing the bag to breathe for the president,
so that was moving his chest up and down. But
he had an excellent cardiac activity on the electric cardiographic monk,
so he was as you said, he was alive, even
though he had sustained an absolutely fatal brain injury. A

(01:26:36):
train of other things down through the years that have
led me to think that there was a shooter. Both
on the sixth floor book depository, and whether it was
Oswald or someone else, I think fired a bullet from
that point that hit him in the back and then
came out his neck. And then on the zapruder film,

(01:26:57):
as you see a good many seconds later, after he's
already been hit, you can see on the film that
when that first bullet hits him from behind and comes
out his neck, that the President's arms and hands moved
up to his neck like that, and it's obvious that
something has happened at that time. And then several seconds

(01:27:19):
later he disappears behind a sign along the edge of
Elm Street on the suppruder film, and two or three
seconds after being behind that sign, he comes out from
behind the sign, and the second or two later, Missus
Kennedy at this point is leaning over to him. He
still has his arms up to his neck, and she's

(01:27:41):
concerned that something has obviously happened, and just as she
is doing that, all of a sudden, the President's head
literally exploded and he's thrown violently backward and to the left.
So that was clearly an absolutely different shot from a
different position somewhere probably around the hairline. Although we didn't

(01:28:04):
see anything there because his head was covered in blood
and we didn't see anything. But we saw this huge
hole where I'm pointing, in the back of his head
that blew out, probably a circular hole that was something
like maybe five inches in diameter, blew out most of
the back part of his brain, so that I could

(01:28:28):
look down into the empty part of his skull. There
was nothing. I could look into the empty skull there.
There was nothing there. And as I stood there, in fact,
the right half of his cerebellum fell out through the
woomb onto the journey in front of me there. And

(01:28:49):
there was some argument later between me and doctor Jenkins
and other people in the hall as to whether this
was cerebellum or cerebral. That's a significant point, I think,
because if it's SaraBellum, it means that the wound in
the back of the head was farther back than some
people have said, who have indicated that maybe it was

(01:29:11):
in the back of the head, but then sort of
the trunk part of the back of the head, whereby
it would be unlikely that SaraBellum would come out. Well,
the cerebrum was gone, that is, the front part of
the brain, but the cerebellum was the only thing that
was left, and that's what I saw clearly to be sarahbellum.

(01:29:33):
Although doctor Jenkins changed his initial testimony in which he
said it was Seabram and later said, well, maybe I
was mistaken. It probably was sebrum rather than Sarah bellum.
He had initially said Sarah bellum only one kind of
a destructancy. The pictures that we saw that were eight

(01:29:55):
by ten color pictures of the autopsy showed a large
wound in the back of the head. But in one
of the photos, they were what I thought, pulling a
flap of scalp up over this wound in order to
show a wound in the back of the head, which

(01:30:18):
we had not seen any other wound except this large,
gaping wound. I was later told by someone that, well,
this was not a flap of scalp being pulled up
on the back of the head. This was just the
way the back of the head looked. And I said
to whoever I was talking to, well, that's not the
way it looked, because there was a huge hole where

(01:30:40):
that what I thought was a flap of scalp being
pulled up. All of that hole so that was the
only sort of inconsistent statement in that regard. We first
of all, did not see the bullet wound in his
back in trauma room one the next day, I was

(01:31:01):
in the office with doctor Perry. We had an office
together at the medical School. About ten o'clock Saturday morning,
doctor Perry got a call from doctor Boswell, one of
the pathologists at the Naval Medical Hospital who had done
the post mortem on President Kennedy, and he wanted to
ask doctor Perry some questions about the exploration wound in

(01:31:24):
the neck, and then he also asked doctor Perry. And
I could see what was being said or hear what
was being said, not by hearing doctor Boswell, but by
hearing doctor Perry's response and answer to his question. But
doctor Boswell apparently asked doctor Perry, did we know that
there was a wound in the President's back? And I

(01:31:46):
heard Doctor Perry reply that no, we didn't, because we
didn't think it was appropriate to do any further examination
of the president after he had been pronounced dead, so
we didn't turn him over and look at his back.
Was a wound in his and he said it was
high in the back, sort of in the middle, but
over toward the light. But he didn't specify exactly to

(01:32:10):
us or to doctor Perry where that bullet was exactly,
as far as the height of the bullet. I do
know where this bullet was in the front of his
neck from what doctor Perry told me. It was right here.
And then I do also know from the subcruier film
that the President put his hands up to this hole

(01:32:30):
and that was when the first bullet hitting, most likely
from the back from the picket, you know, from the
book depository window, or from one of the windows in
one of the buildings around there. Just before I came
into the room. Uh, and after doctor Jenkins had seen
himself there by the antithesia machine, Missus Kennedy came in,

(01:32:55):
she said, and doctor Jenkins told me this right after
we had finished what we were doing. Follow room one,
and he said. She was holding a large portion of
the president's brain and again it was cerebram H and
handed it to doctor Jenkins and just walked out after that.

(01:33:16):
After she had handed that large portion of brain the
president of the President to doctor Jenkins, and I thought, well,
I'll turn the television on and see what the news
is going on now. And as I turned the TV on,

(01:33:38):
and before the picture began to form, I could hear voices,
and the voices were saying, he's been shot. He's been shot.
And I thought myself now, and the picture formed, and
I saw what everybody has seen many times, probably in
various venues, the famous tableau of Ruby has just shot.

(01:33:59):
I was and he was slumping through the ground. And so,
having just seen that, I walked through the foot of
the stairway in my house and call up to my wife.
I said, I'm going to have to skip lunch because
I've got to go to park On. They've just shot Oswald.
She said, who is Ozwah? And I said, he's the

(01:34:21):
man they say shot President. Kennedy got in my car
and rode as rapidly as I could toward Parker. And
on my way there, I saw doctor Shier's car coming
toward me in the opposite direction from Parkman, and we
stopped along the side of the road, and we both
found out that we had both found out the same

(01:34:43):
piece of information about Oswald, and he turned his car
around and we both then sped out Parker. We got
there probably about oh thirty minutes after Oswall had been shot.
We stop, parked our cars behind the emergency room, ran
into the emergency room, the trauma room two right across

(01:35:06):
the hall from where the President had been treated, and
looked inside, and that was a beehive of activity with
all the residents and nurses in the emergency room working
on the oswall getting him transfused and ready for surgery.
A fatal wound, but nevertheless it was potentially and I underline,

(01:35:28):
potentially salvageable. Unfortunately, what happened is that when he was
walking toward Ruby, he saw him approaching with the pistol,
and of course there's also some evidence that he knew
mister Ruby and that he recognized it. He saw him
approaching with his gun, and as anybody would, he turned

(01:35:50):
to try to avoid that. But that cost him his
life in essence, because when he turned, instead of the
bullet going straight through from the front of his end
abdmen to the back, where it would have caused non
fatal bowel injuries, uh instead course across having come in,
sought it forward the upper left part of his abroom,

(01:36:11):
it went across the back part of his abdomen the
so called retroperitonem and injured his ving a cava and
his a order, the two main blood vessels in the
body that carry blood to the upper and lower portions
of the body to and from the vein being a

(01:36:31):
cava and the order.

Speaker 18 (01:36:34):
And that is really.

Speaker 3 (01:36:37):
Say a fatal wound. And the great majority of cases
people bleed out on the side of the injury. But
as luck would have it, the way the hematoma, that is,
the blood clot formed around those injuries, he did not
bleed out as they usually do, so we were able
to open his abdomen and doctor Shires, who was doing

(01:36:58):
that exploration, with doctor Perry and I being the first
and second assistants, was able to get clamps on those vessels.
After a period of probably twenty or thirty minutes from
the time we got into his abdom and we worked
down through the clock. We got the clamps on the
vessel so that we could have controlled it. But at

(01:37:20):
that time he had had so much blood loss and
so much injury to his heart muscle that he had
a cardiac arrest at the moment, and doctor Perry and
I dropped out of the operation. Doctor Perry opened his
chest and we took turns massaging Oswald's heart for probably

(01:37:40):
about thirty minutes or so, and initially it looked like
maybe it was going to come back and begin beating again,
but it stopped again, and then it got flabear and flabeer,
until finally we gave up and he was pronounced There
the deputy sheriff, who was handcuffed, who to Oswald as

(01:38:00):
he was being led out of the jail and was
standing beside him when he fell to the ground, and
he told us as we came out after Oswald was
pronounced dead, he was sitting out waiting to hear what
was going on in the opera room, and so we
came out and told him what had happened, and he
told us, he said, you know, when he was shot

(01:38:24):
and slumped to the ground, I got down on all
fours over his body and straddled him and put my
face down in his and I said, son, you're hurt
real bad. Would you like to say anything.

Speaker 28 (01:38:37):
To me now?

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
And he said. Oswald opened his eyes very widely with
that and looked up at him for a long several moments,
like he was thinking about whether he was or was
not going to say anything. And after those few moments,
he said, Oswald shook his head like that real wife
inside to side like no. He definitely did not want

(01:39:02):
to say anything, and with that he closed his eyes
for the last time. Mister Wevell said, I will believe
to my dying day that he was about to say
something pertinent about everything to me at that time, but
then he thought better of it and shook his hands.

Speaker 33 (01:39:22):
We have another report on the arrival of the body
of the President. He's expected to arrive at Andrews Air
Force Base at six five pm. That would put the
President's body on a different plane than that carrying President Johnson,
who has taken the oath of office, and Missus Johnson
and Missus Jacqueline Kennedy. The three of them are in

(01:39:43):
the forward compartment of the plane, Air Force one, as
we understand, so apparently two planes are being used, and
the President Johnson and Missus Johnson and Missus Kennedy will
arrive in Washington ahead of the President's body. And as
we have been told the Pentagon, the military officials of

(01:40:03):
the United States have taken charge of funeral plans and
mourning period for the President in the District of Columbia.
And it has already been determined that the body will
lie in state in the rotunda of the Capitol, where
so many prominent Americans have laid in the past.

Speaker 17 (01:40:47):
I was dating a man who managed the Kodak store
in Six Flags over Texas. He actually came down from Rochester,
New York to manage the Kodak stot six Flags, and
he went back up to Rochester, New York in like September,
I'm thinking it was September, first part of September, and
he brought me an experimental camera back. It was a

(01:41:09):
Yoshika experimental camera and it was a prototype, and he
brought me twelve magazines. It was a magazine loaded camera.
He gave me twelve things of film. He said that
should last me till the camera comes out in two years.
He told me beyond two years. And I had envelopes
that I had to put these in and mail them

(01:41:30):
to Rochester. You couldn't even get them sent off locally.
You know, kids don't understand because all they understand his
video nowadays. But we couldn't even drop it off like
at the corner drug store and pick it up the
next week. I had to send it to Rochester. And
that was my first cassette of film. That I had used,
so I had sent anything.

Speaker 9 (01:41:52):
Off yet.

Speaker 17 (01:42:00):
It was a burlesque show, but all burlesque shows, like
I didn't take my clothes off either. I tried it once,
but the man started yelling put it back on, so
I figured that wasn't my calling in life. But it
was a strip club. But back then, when you talk

(01:42:23):
about strip clubs, they were burlesque shows, which is different
than the strip clubs are today. You see more on
the beach now than you saw on the stage back
in the sixties. And they all had an act and
it and then brought their wives. It was entertainment. When
I was working at the Colony Club, which was separated
only by a parking lot from Jack Ruby's club, the

(01:42:45):
Carousel Club, and I started working down there at a
very young age, very underage, and of course I lied
about my age. But anyway, I would catch the bus
from Garland, Texas and ride it in the bomb myself
to downtown Dallas, work at the Colony Club, go back
home on the twelve thirty bus. And one night I

(01:43:06):
was walking down Acrid Street, which is no longer a
street if you've been to Dallas recently, and the Baker
Hotel drug store opened up onto Accord, and this man
stepped out of the door and the doorway and scared
the mud out of me. And it was Jack Ruby,
and he introduced himself to me, and of course he
could tell that I was too young to be at

(01:43:27):
that time of night by myself.

Speaker 26 (01:43:29):
And from that day.

Speaker 17 (01:43:30):
Forward, Jack Ruby walked me to the bus station every
Friday and Saturday night. He was a rough guy when
it came to men, you know, in handling arguments some
months the customers between men. But I never ever knew
Jack to be disrespectful to a female.

Speaker 28 (01:43:49):
Not ever.

Speaker 17 (01:43:50):
I mean he would be foolish. I've heard people say
that he beat his women. That would be stupid. They
got up at night and took their clothes off. Are
you're going to pay to see a bruised up, battered
up woman on stage? Of course not.

Speaker 13 (01:44:00):
He didn't beat his woman.

Speaker 8 (01:44:02):
A couple of three.

Speaker 17 (01:44:02):
Weeks prior to the assassination, I had gone over to
the club. The all three clubs that I mentioned before
staggered our shows so that the clientele could make all
three clubs, and the Carousel had the last show at night,
and I was supposed to go to a club that
night that was upen like called the Alabama Club to
a party with Jada, and I went over, which was

(01:44:25):
the headline dancer for Jack, and I went over to
tell her how to Migraine, and I wasn't going to go.
When I walked in the club, I saw Jada. There
was a table at the end of the runway, and
I saw Jada sitting at the end of the table.

Speaker 26 (01:44:36):
There was a chair, and.

Speaker 17 (01:44:37):
Then Jack Ruby, and then a dark haired man. And
I made my way up to the table and when
I got there, Jack stood up and pulled my chair
out like he always did, and just as I was
being seated, he very nonchalantly said, heybed, this is my
friend Leigh Oswald. He's with a CIA, pointing to the
man on the other side of him. Well, I didn't know.

(01:45:00):
I didn't know what the CIA was. At sixty five,
I'm still.

Speaker 8 (01:45:03):
Not sure what they are.

Speaker 17 (01:45:06):
I looked at this gentleman. He seemed dark, he didn't
seem to have a personality. He wasn't dressed very well.
He wasn't poorly dressed, but he wasn't dressed in a
suit and tie. He didn't look like he had any money,
so I didn't have anything to say to him, I
directed my conversation to Jonna. And that wasn't the only

(01:45:29):
time I saw him in the club, though, just a
couple of three nights after that. And when I said
a couple of three nights, don't pin me down because
I don't remember the exact night, I walked in just
in time to hear this same man that I've been
introduced to stand up and call Whallely, Weston and Son communists.

Speaker 26 (01:45:48):
But he used a.

Speaker 17 (01:45:49):
Word before that, and while he said, excuse me, what
did you say, he said, I think you're an Evan communist,
And while he just laid the mic down, hopped off
the run way and walked over there, and Cole cocked
him right in the mouth. And Jack Ruby came forward,
came in, grabbed him by his neck, and he said,
I told you not to come back in this club again,

(01:46:10):
and push him out the door. And I did not
realize that Wally had ever told anybody about that until
I did the Heraldo Show many years ago, and he
played that segment that when he had interviewed Wally, and
Wally told him about hitting le Oswald in the mouth.

(01:46:32):
Jack didn't want me to film this fascination and all.
The biggest fight we ever got into was the night
before and he, okay, I was. I went to a
party with Jack at the Cabana Hotel. It was I
think the Pepsi cola and we were just there for
a little while and he knew that I was going
to Fort Worth at not the Cellar Club, but it

(01:46:55):
was another private party that I went to. And he said, well,
what are you wearing? You're going to see the press
scident tomorrow and I that he didn't call him the president.
I said, yes, I am. And he said what are
you wearing? And I said, well, Jack, I'm gonna wear
what I have on. He said, you're not wearing that
dress I gave you to see that And we got
this sort of and so we got into it. That's

(01:47:17):
why I found so absurd about the news reports after
he killed Lee Harvey Oswald that he did it because
he loved the Kennedys. Now, he did admire and respect
Jackie Kennedy. He thought she was a lady of class,
but he did not his exact words, I can't say
his exact words on television, but he hated JFK. He

(01:47:38):
hated his brother Bobby and he hated that so and
so Daddy. There's even more. You have to understand, Dallas
in sixty three, everybody was in the mob, you know,
and we the show girls. I mean, we just thought
it was the movies. Or I did love you repraise that.
I just thought these things happen in the movies. It's

(01:47:59):
just not real life, because we lived in our own
little world. That wasn't the real world.

Speaker 28 (01:48:04):
It was not the real world.

Speaker 17 (01:48:06):
And so I just never gave the mam a second thought.
I mean, there was always men coming in both clubs,
all three clubs, the Theater Lounge, are calling the Club
and the Krosel Club with bulges and their coats and pockets,
and you know, guns were always being thrown.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
Under the table.

Speaker 17 (01:48:22):
When the busy flat came in, I walked in from
the ladies room, as I recall now, and I'm into
the middle of a conversation and it was about the assassination. Now,
I don't recall any specifics about the conversation except that

(01:48:43):
I made some statement like I was there when it happened.

Speaker 13 (01:48:47):
Dude.

Speaker 17 (01:48:48):
And Georgia McGain, my husband who was later murdered himself
in a gag Landsland pulled me out, pulled me out
of the chair, and took me home and told me
I would never ever again bring up the subject of
the assassination of President Kennedy or he didn't call him president,
and he said of Kennedy unless I didn't want to

(01:49:09):
live for the next day to talk about. The last
threats that I received was in nineteen ninety three, after
I went on the Haraldo Show and said that I
was going to be runing and I wasting the process.

Speaker 29 (01:49:24):
Squat in my book and.

Speaker 17 (01:49:25):
They were postmarked from Houston. I still have them, and
one of them said, I don't remember which came first,
but one of them said just had death in black
box letters death, and then the next one said snitch
were dead.

Speaker 19 (01:49:47):
These shots apparently came from a grappy noise we were
looking apparently the parade route, probably from an automatic weapon.

Speaker 18 (01:49:57):
Stations. Statement Detective Roles came in and started taking my statement.
As we're sitting there and not to the end of
what I had to say, I was a little commotion
at the door of homicide and two policemen brought a
guy in a little bit disabled. Detective guest Rose asked

(01:50:21):
for two police and says, who's this. He said, well,
this is the man that killed that policeman in the Hope.

Speaker 19 (01:50:27):
None ballas that the police have arrested a young man
in connection with the shooting, but so far, of course,
there's no confirmation or evidence that he is the guilty
party in the assassination.

Speaker 18 (01:50:39):
At them later that evening and watching TV, I can
say it was he. Harry Oswald is one that brought
into the homicide and put the office next to me.
I then a Sunday morning, I knew there was a
news stand down town and I had for a radio
or they went down to get a paper. Wants you know,

(01:51:01):
the rest of the country was favoring a night Dallas.
I want to get a New York paper in an
LA paper is I was nearing downtown. I was listening
to him transfer Oswell and that's when Ruby shot him.
I knead Jack Ruby. He was one of these guys

(01:51:21):
that reacted to trains on the top of a hat.
Writer in talking to General Roll, who was handcuffed her
at at the time, verified by Faults and really thought
he'd be a hero by killer Ozwal. He thought that's
that's something that the whole world would think that he
did the right plan. He was a hero. On the

(01:51:50):
fifteenth of December, the NBI had interviewed me. That's sixty three,
and this interview was folded by the FBI to the
Warren Commission. Then on June the fifth of nineteen sixty four,

(01:52:17):
I read where the war On Commissioner was folding the
doors and sending people home. Their conclusion was going to
be the first shot at Kennedy, the second when Conway
and the friends win Kennedy. I was talking for a
man at hood. He says, you know, we got a
new cub reporter from a paper. He says, I'm gonna

(01:52:38):
call him and tell about you, and he needs to
talk to you. It is Jim Layer. Jim put the
story on the wire services. The FBI was in Jim
Layer's office at four that afternoon. Jay Lee, ranking there's
chief council for the war On Commission. Rancolin asked Jacob,

(01:53:02):
who was the FBI, to go find where that bullet
hit the curb and who reported about two times to
the war In Commission. Could not find it, but we
have or he had sent a memo to the Nowa's office.
All of there. That same day to go get the
pictures that were taken to the curb. So they knew

(01:53:23):
that he was denying it to the Warring Commission. So
I testified on the twenty third, Bunny Wallers testified, a
couple others and the pictures were then sure enough this
there was a missshot. Then the next day at twenty fourth,
the FBI says, oh, we found where that bullet hit
the curve. Matter of fact, they had to review the

(01:53:47):
war in commission after my testimony.

Speaker 22 (01:54:36):
Hell Senator Rusal, calling in a leno Y's r.

Speaker 1 (01:54:40):
Well you always leave in town.

Speaker 11 (01:54:42):
You must not like it up here, all that big
Warren commissioned business and whooped me down. So we got
to today. Well I've just worn out fighting over that
damn report. Well, they were trying to prove its the
same bullet that hit Kenny the push was the one
that hits con Lynn went to him and to his
hand and his bone into his leg. And of course

(01:55:06):
if a fellow was accurate enough to hit Kennedy right
and neck on one shot and I'll get head off
Mexic when he was leaning up against his wife said
not he wound up with that touch shot. According to
that they read not only miss the old lord mobile,
but he missed the street. Well, the man a good
enough shot to put two bullets right in the candy.
He didn't miss that old loadmobile. At the commission believe

(01:55:27):
it the same bullet that hit Kennedy hit Conny. Well,
I don't believe it.

Speaker 4 (01:55:32):
I don't really.

Speaker 11 (01:55:35):
The commission believe it the same bullet that hit Kennedy
hit Conny Well, I don't believe it.

Speaker 9 (01:55:40):
I don't.

Speaker 17 (01:56:32):
He contacted me about being part of the movie, and
if asked me to work with him on the movie.
And we met at the Stonley Hotel to have dinner,
and he asked me if I had ever seen any
of his movies. I don't do movies, and I said, no,

(01:56:55):
I haven't. Have you ever seen any of mine?

Speaker 20 (01:56:59):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:56:59):
My god, Yes?

Speaker 9 (01:57:02):
And that's how we met.

Speaker 18 (01:57:04):
The reason I was going down the town and Dallas
Tip days, had a lunch and they were Redhead at
Big Made to Date the day before matter fact had
rede the warrant Commission.

Speaker 3 (01:57:16):
After my testimony, Doctor Perry would never talk about it
under any circumstances to me or anybody else. And I
never really understood why that was my own thoughts about
it are that this is a pertinent point of history
that should belong to the public, so that when somebody

(01:57:40):
asked me about it, it's sort of my duty, if
you will, to say what I know, rather than to say, well,
this is my private information, because it's certainly far from
being that it belongs to everybody.

Speaker 9 (01:57:57):
JFT and Bobby had gone after the mafia. They promised
that they were likely to continue going after the mafia,
and they did.

Speaker 4 (01:58:02):
Go after them.

Speaker 29 (01:58:05):
It's really important for people to understand that there were
several locations that shots were being fired from.

Speaker 32 (01:58:23):
For all intents and purposes, the motorcade security of the
Dallas Police Department ended at the corner at the intersection
of elm in Houston.

Speaker 9 (01:58:32):
That was it.

Speaker 32 (01:58:33):
There was no police except two officers standing on the
triple overpassed. And that's one of my If you've read
the book, you'll see the testimony of Foster. It was,
you know, he was supposed to keep everybody off the
railroad bridge over the top of the president in an
open limousine, and he when he testified, he said, well,
I kept everybody off there except those sixteen people. So

(01:58:57):
he didn't do his job.

Speaker 16 (01:58:58):
They had to do his drop a brick on Kennedy exactly, exactly.

Speaker 32 (01:59:01):
I mean, he would have been one of the first
one of the guys I would have fired for not
doing his duty.

Speaker 26 (01:59:08):
They were so stupid in covering up, so so oblivious,
so arrogant, so cocky. They didn't even know enough to
make the brain weight a more reasonable measure. Unbelievable. Thank
you for mentioning very welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
Something went out of.

Speaker 34 (01:59:30):
Joseph Kennedy was killed, and then to think that his
brother would be killed six years later, that doctor ken
would be killed that same year as a brother.

Speaker 2 (01:59:42):
Even in a country.

Speaker 23 (01:59:46):
Two hundred plus a million people who can't take three
unique leaders like.

Speaker 2 (01:59:54):
That and along in the same way, because leaders like
that don't go around.

Speaker 5 (02:00:04):
I gave a speech during the Obama campaign quoting a
Shamus Haining, the Irish poet who said, one similar lifetime,
there's a surge.

Speaker 4 (02:00:17):
And justice and.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
History and hope merged some of my ma And I said,
I'm old enough twice in my lifetime if Kennedy had
no house.

Speaker 5 (02:00:35):
We've seen that merger of hope nations, but it doesn't
come very often.

Speaker 2 (02:00:41):
And I think this country is I said in the.

Speaker 5 (02:00:46):
Big forum of this country was changed by in all
kinds harmful ways, most domestically and international, by the loss.

Speaker 33 (02:00:58):
Of John F.

Speaker 5 (02:00:58):
Kennedy, and that inviding a lot of questions will match.
You know, we're all on to learn more this year
about by who's gonna.

Speaker 8 (02:01:29):
Is there any leaders now? Do you feel that bring
that to the forefront.

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
Oh that's a.

Speaker 29 (02:01:44):
Long hesitation, sir.

Speaker 8 (02:01:46):
I'll let it slide at that.

Speaker 13 (02:01:59):
H