July 24, 2025 • 29 mins
Meet Matt Putra, an experienced chief financial officer with a background as a senior partner. He brings expertise in corporate finance, and mergers and acquisitions. Learn about his work in private equity and his role as a fractional chief financial officer.
Matt Kutcher, founder and an experienced chief financial officer. He shares insights on corporate finance and his career in private equity. Learn about acquisition and the importance of due diligence! He is founder of Eightx.co, former senior partner and CFO in private equity, seasoned fractional CFO with over a decade of experience helping e-commerce and consumer brands achieve financial clarity and sustainable growth. With a track record of turning six-figure losses into seven-figure profits and driving 300% year-over-year growth, Matt specializes in transforming financial operations for scaling businesses.
Through Eightx.co, he empowers companies across the globe to transition from financial uncertainty to confident, data-driven decision-making.
Email: matt@eightx.co
Business: Eightx Business Services Inc.
Website: https://eightx.co/
Social Media Address
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattputra/
Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mattwjputra
X - https://x.com/ecommerceCFO
Remember to SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss "Information That You Can Use." Share Just Minding My Business with your family, friends, and colleagues. Engage with us by leaving a review or comment. https://g.page/r/CVKSq-IsFaY9EBM/review Your support keeps this podcast going and growing.
Visit Just Minding My Business Media™ LLC at https://jmmbmediallc.com/ to learn how we can help you get more visibility on your products and services.
Matt Kutcher, founder and an experienced chief financial officer. He shares insights on corporate finance and his career in private equity. Learn about acquisition and the importance of due diligence! He is founder of Eightx.co, former senior partner and CFO in private equity, seasoned fractional CFO with over a decade of experience helping e-commerce and consumer brands achieve financial clarity and sustainable growth. With a track record of turning six-figure losses into seven-figure profits and driving 300% year-over-year growth, Matt specializes in transforming financial operations for scaling businesses.
Through Eightx.co, he empowers companies across the globe to transition from financial uncertainty to confident, data-driven decision-making.
Email: matt@eightx.co
Business: Eightx Business Services Inc.
Website: https://eightx.co/
Social Media Address
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattputra/
Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mattwjputra
X - https://x.com/ecommerceCFO
Remember to SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss "Information That You Can Use." Share Just Minding My Business with your family, friends, and colleagues. Engage with us by leaving a review or comment. https://g.page/r/CVKSq-IsFaY9EBM/review Your support keeps this podcast going and growing.
Visit Just Minding My Business Media™ LLC at https://jmmbmediallc.com/ to learn how we can help you get more visibility on your products and services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Speaker 4 (01:51):
Welcome, Welcome to just mind in on business media. I
hope that you're having an amazing day today. I like
you to meet net Kutra, who is the founder of
eight X, former senior partner and CFO in private equity,
seasoned fractional CFO with over a decade of experience helping
(02:15):
e commerce and consumer brands achieve financial clarity and sustainable growth.
With a track record of turning six figure losses into
seven figure profits and driving three hundred year over year growth,
METH specializes in transforming financial operations for scaling businesses. Wow.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Yes, it's been a fun ride.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like it. So
tell us about eight X.
Speaker 6 (02:52):
Yeah, Well, I mean, so I've always wanted to have
a business, and I couldn't think of what I was
going to do and why I was in private equity.
You had a friend asked for some help with his
business and financial modeling and cash full of forecasts and whatnot,
and I helped him and I really enjoyed it and
helped him make a whole bunch of money. And then
he said, can you help my other friend and this
(03:13):
friend and that friend? And so then I was like,
I wonder if I could do this kind of on
the full time basis. So I started off just on
the side of my desk. I was like, I'll pay
for a couple of trip travel a year, maybe, right,
And then it just kept growing and then I was like, well,
let's try to quit my job and see how it goes.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
And that was four years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Basically, yes, and that's how it starts. You know, you
just helping a friend with what you know, and then
you find yourself hmm, I like this.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
That's exactly how it happened. One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yes, yes, indeed. So for actional CFO, let's explain what
that means to our audience.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Sure, so you know, most of us are familiar with
the concept of a full time chief financial officer. So
someone that you pay, you know, anywhere between two and
seven hundred thousand a year, depending on how big the
company is, right, the average would be probably two to
three hundred thousand. And this person is an expert at
accounting and you know finance, so meaning forecasting and planning
(04:15):
and cash flows and banking and insurance and tax and
a bunch of different things, right, And their job is
to make sure the business a few things, stays compliant
with all the governmental agencies that's a big one, doesn't
run out of money another big one, and can afford
to do what the vision of the owner is. So
(04:38):
make sure that the business has resources to achieve the
goals of the owner, right, and if there's a problem,
to see that very early and try to course correct
and fix it.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
So those are the.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
Broad buckets, and a fractional CFO is someone it typically
that has done that in a bigger business and like me,
maybe got tired of working corporately and now wants to
do that on.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
A different scale for a different size of business.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
So for example, like you know, my privatary group, there
was like nine subsidiaries and multi offices and I just didn't.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Want to commute all this any you know.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
And now I were companies that are doing two million
a year, some doing twenty million a year, some thirty,
well a couple one at one hundred, one and eighty.
But I'm working one day a week for some one
of them. I'm working like two days a month for
another one, and then I have four other CFOs that
work with me and doing similar things. And so what
(05:33):
a business owner will get is someone that.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Has experienced at a very high level.
Speaker 6 (05:38):
But they don't have to pay three hundred grand, right
or two hundred grand. You know, you'll pay anywhere from
could be seventy to maybe one hundred and fifty perhaps
depending on how big your needs are, but usually less
than half to half of what you'd be paying a
full time person.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Sometimes.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah, so it's an economical move for big business because.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Definitely, yeah.
Speaker 6 (06:08):
And you know a lot of times we are actually
more effective than a full timer because we can only
do the things that are the highest ROI rather than
try to work on all the things. And so, I mean,
you know a lot of times someone will outgrow the
need for a fractional they'll need a full time again.
And that's happened a few times for us, and that's
the dream, or they sell their company.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Okay, So what industries do you work with?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Primarily e commerce and CpG.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
We do a bit of like clean tech, green tech,
and a little bit of SaaS some manufacturing, but primarily
e commerce and CpG.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Okay, okay, So transforming financial operations when you walk into
a company, how does that transformation began?
Speaker 6 (07:01):
Well, the first thing we have to do for anybody
is an audit, right, and we got to figure out
what's going on, how they're doing, how's cash flow, how
is this and that? And the next thing that we
do is we start on a process to build a
financial forecast. And you know, the first thing is we
want to understand revenue. What does revenue look like now
in the future, next couple of years. We need to
(07:25):
understand how does cost a good soul look like, how
does your hiring planning, what's your fixed costs?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
And then we have then we have.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Your profits and outflow from profit, we look at cash low,
and then we look at your balance sheet.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
And so we work, we walk through the pieces.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
Of building a financial forecast, and in so doing we
learn about all the different areas of the business and
by the end of eight weeks typically we have a
very well functioning forecast that's useful for making decisions. Yeah,
I actually just finished the meeting just before this actually
where we delivered their multi your forecast in a way
(08:01):
that made sense, and now we can send it to
a couple lenders and tell the story of where we're
going and how we've changed, and you know, and we
know a lot about this business bright now.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yes, yes, and a lot of times. You know, that's
a huge thing with businesses because that helps you get money,
you know, loans, things like that. So you need to
have a clear picture of everything. So when what Okay,
I know you said you work with those particular types
(08:32):
of businesses, but do people typically reach out to you
for your services? How's that work?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Oh? I think it's a mix.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Now, we do a bit of advertising, we do a
bit of outreach. I'm still predominantly we get inbound in referrals,
I would say, and yeah, but it's a mix of
all the above. I think now like we're growing to
a point where just inbound only is not sustainable. Like
(09:03):
for our size, we're not huge, but we're not small,
and so we we we have to kind of take
our you know, our future into our own hands now
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Okay, So if businesses want to work with you, how
do they connect with you?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:20):
I think a really great wadynect with me is on LinkedIn.
You just look at my name, Matt Putra. Our website
is eight x dot co e I g h t
X dot co. I'm on Twitter as the e commerce CFO. Yeah,
any of those places is a great place.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
And I mean you turned the company round from a
sixth figure loss to a seventh figure profit. That's amazing.
Can you walk us through what that transaction look like?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:54):
So when when this person called me, they had lost
you know, multiple six figures and a couple of years
in a row, and they didn't have a lot of money.
And I was like, look, I don't know, you should
be paying me. You should probably be trying this ABC
and don't give me your money yet. See how those
things go. And they said, well, we really want to
work with you. Can you help us? I was like, look,
(10:16):
maybe I can help you, but you know, but I'm
nervous by taking any money. They're like, no, I want
to give you the money.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Let's work together. Okay. Great.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
So we started with them, We built our forecasts, and
we had to meet once a week, sometimes twice a
week to manage cash flow. Oh, I got to pay
this guy. What should I do about this other guy
who's not going to get paid, and I have to
pay Facebook, but I can't pay my supplier. And I
have to pay Google, but I can't pay pay Facebook.
And so we're banging on the keyboard and managing cash
flows every week.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
And then we went, okay, we.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Have a little bit of money, Well, what should we
do with it now? And so we well, we can
put it into this advertising or hiring or product, like
what's the best ROI And so we'd be looking at
where should we put the money and what should we do?
And so it was probably about nine months of meeting
weekly or maybe even by week. We just managed and
like cut these expenses and put money in this bucket,
and pay this person, don't pay that person, and just
(11:08):
managing through all that. Then we started started to just
put money in the right spots. It's a little bit
of growth. Then we broke even for the first time,
and then another month we broke even, and then we
negotiate with our suppliers for better terms and we found
a new supplier for better costs and goods sold, and
so then we started to stack these wins and we
made made a little bit of money and then we
(11:29):
went okay, great, Now we went to our lended to say, hey,
we're making more money. Now can we either have more
money from you or better terms from you? And so
we started getting a little bit more money, a little
bit better terms. Then we had okay, we have more money.
Now where do we put this money? And who do
we pay? And you know, so we just started putting
money in the right places. And the way that we
knew they were the right places is we would we
would sort of test what would happen if we put
(11:51):
money here or there and kind of look at the
potential outcomes and you know, and then we would go, okay,
well let's try this and let's monitor it.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
And so we would you know, installed it.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
But surely through negotiating suppliers, getting our cost of goods down,
through managing our cash flow, through getting better payment terms,
through getting better lending, through like you know, we had
a problem once where we sold out of all the
product way faster than we thought we would.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
And what are we gonna do? Well, I was like, well,
that's just pre sell and they're like, well we know
that before. I was like, well, just precell, see how
it goes. So we ended up pre.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Selling hundreds of thousands of dollars and so look, you know,
it was a lot of work, but one of my
favorite stories because this husband and wife went from losing
six figures a year to making seven figures to now
exiting for eight figures and so they've changed their lives
in three four years that we worked together.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
So it's a super fun story.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
And I will I have to give the owner's credit.
They knew how to make a product that their audience
liked and so and they also were you know, call
it humble enough to just know what they didn't know
and ask me questions all the time. And so we
worked hand in hand for two years straight. And again,
(13:10):
like I said, they'd exeited Freddy figures.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Now, wow, that's that's definitely amazing because and and that's
why they hired you because they don't know. And you know,
most most business owners hire somebody and then they want
to kind of like take the reins and why did
you hire the person if you could do it yourself?
(13:33):
It was the point, you know. So yeah, that sounds
like a great, great connection. They were coachable, you know,
they were willing to try things. You know, so that
leads me to say, ask I should say, you know,
when you're working with a client. When you meet a client,
(13:54):
let's put it that way, there's got to be some
type of chemistry. How do you determine that the chemistry
is there?
Speaker 6 (14:06):
Yeah, well, we don't work with everybody that wants to
work with us. I think you know, our discovery call
processes is a two way discovery. So we got to
figure out, well, we got to demonstrate that we would
make sense for the person. We also need to make
sure that they make sense for us. And so we've
just set up our processes so that you know, I
(14:27):
can get a feeling of do they take advice and
are they willing to think about things in a new way.
Here's a good example and a lesson I learned about this.
Somebody called me, let's say I think it was twenty
twenty two, and they said, hey, can we work together?
I was like, yeah, sure, here's a proposal whatever. They said, Oh, well,
let's wait a year. Literal they called me back and
they said, hey, we have four weeks of cash left.
(14:49):
Can you help us? And I said, yeah, we can help.
Could have done it before. And so we joined them
and we went through their expenses and we said, oh,
your brother actually is actually not a meaningful contributor to
your business.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
You should let him go.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
And your mum is also not a meaningful contributor to
your business, so you should let her go. And you're
in this club that you're not getting any leads from,
so you should quit the club and stop paying them
yearly dues.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
And we went through it.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
We said, hack, hack, hack, all this stuff, and they said, actually,
I don't want to cut any of those expenses. And
we said, but you don't have hardly any actual left
and they said, yeah, well we'll just sell more. And
I was like, it's not that easy, and you know,
like so we ended up not being a good fit
with that person. Another example is someone called me. They
(15:38):
were in the UK and they said, we want we
were on Amazon, we want to expand to shopify, and
I said, you know, turning on a new channel has
a significant amount of risk, and so I said to them,
don't do that. It's a bad idea and they said
why it's like because have you done it before?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
No?
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Do you have a site built already, No they don't.
Do you know how to advertise on Facebook? No they don't.
And so like I said, just do better on Amazon
and I was the only person the interview that told
them that of all the other CFOs, I was the
only one that said, don't do that, just do better
at what you're currently doing. And so you know, I
create some friction points in our discovery process to see,
(16:18):
like are we going to be a good fit.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
I guess yeah, because people business owners, you know, when
they do well in one area, they want to jump
to something else that they have no history, and like
you just said, that's a risk because you don't know
whether it's going to catch well. Then it's going to
take time because you're competing with other people in the
(16:43):
same space and it's going to take time. And persistence,
consistency by the marketing you know, which all costs money.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Definitely, absolutely, And if.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
You don't really have any money, then you need to
where you need to get to a place where you
have enough money for risk.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Absolutely yep, yes, yes, indeed.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Wow. Well, this CFO thing I think is the best
thing that ever happened to businesses because like you said,
that three hundred thousand versus half, that's a significant savings
huge for sure. Now you say you work with other
(17:33):
CFOs as well, so I guess everybody has their expertise
in the in the rim of things. So is that
how you function in your company?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
I think we're fairly e commerce CpG focused, so a
lot of our folks have expertise there, but we don't
hire the typical accountants. Actually, so none of only one
of my people were as a Big four accountant. Otherwise
they were they went through industry. So one of the
guys was an industrial engineer first before finance person. Another
(18:12):
guy went on through the finance side and with e
commerce managed the private group in e commerce.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
I've done a number of things. Another guy was he
was Big.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Four and then ended up in like a specialist in
real estate. And so we try to hire multidisciplinary people,
not just like Big four accountants.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, so when businesses select a CFO, what are some
of the criteria that you recommend?
Speaker 6 (18:41):
So there's a what's happening now is because people realize
that being a fractional CFO is is an opportunity. You're
getting different types of call it fractional CFOs. So you
get the person that's been a CFO like I was
appointed by a board of way very very cool of
very talented people, and I was appointed and given the role,
(19:04):
and I was registered with then Terror Securities Commission and
all kinds of stuff. Right, So you get people that
were CFOs like officially, you get people that were like
vps and directors, and so I would say that's one bucket.
Is like or if they're a VP director or CFO
a of a mid to bigger size company, you're what
(19:25):
I would call like this might be friction in the market,
but like you're a true CFO, like you've sat in
the seat, You've owned a lot of responsibility. You're responsible
for cash flow. You have to stand up in front
of your peers and say I fucked up or I
didn't right, And so that's one set of people. Then
there are folks that were like controllers in an industry
(19:47):
role and still helpful, but you just have to be
careful which things you need. So a CFO has owned
everything and has to sit in front investors and boards
and and do forward looking. A controller may not have
had that same level, may not have communicate with banks,
will be very good at accounting and historical reporting, but
(20:10):
if you need the forecast thing, you may not.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
You want to use just a controller just in say jest.
So then you have.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
People that there's recently there's been financial analysts, so their
last job in industry was as a financial analyst and
now they call themselves practical CFO. So again can be
useful for the right company and the right need. So
if you have a company where you as an owner
know what you want and know how to forecast, you
just need someone to do the things for you, like
(20:37):
do the modeling, then you can use that person effectively.
But if you don't know finance, if you don't know accounting,
if you don't know how to forecast, if you need
someone to get in front of banks, and you hire
someone who is a financial analyst, you may be setting
yourself up for disappointment, right. And then there's a second
group of people where they were public practice accountants or
(20:59):
are public practice to count and they're adding CFO services
because it's a nice MRR retainer to add. And again
those people can be highly effective in the in the
right situation. So it's on the client to really understand
what they need and if they need very high level
strategic thought, then that's who you hire. If you just
(21:22):
need reporting, you can hire a controller. If you just
need someone to bang on a spreadsheet. You can hire
an analyst, but like you have to be careful about
what you need and ask them what is the latest
role they had in the industry, because if you don't
ask that question, you might get someone who was just
a public parctic account or an analyst or what have you,
because anybody can call themselves a practical CFO at this point, right.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Yes, yes, and that makes sense. Do you due diligence?
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yes, So again, Matt, how do companies connect with you?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:56):
Great place is my website so ei gh t x COO.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
I'm also on LinkedIn as Matt Putron. You can find
me on LinkedIn. Both those two places will get a
friendly quick response.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Okay, okay, wow. So this is like this is every
time I talked to CFOs, I learned more and more
and more about how it works and you know some
of the things as a business owner you need to
be about in order to be able to work with
(22:31):
a CFO. So it's very important to understand the roles
that a CFO does and understand your part in it
because it's a partnership. You know, you you you your
job based on what the company gives you. M So,
(22:54):
have you had any any clients that you were like, no, it,
do it because you're getting the information you need to
do your part. Let's put it that way. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
Well, I think if someone doesn't have a bookkeeper and
they're not interested in in one, then we can't actually
do it at all because we're flying blind, right, Like
you have to have bookkeeping done. Where we struggle is
where you know again, where where we look at something
and we go, hey, like, here's some ways to think
about these options, and they don't like any of them. Like,
(23:30):
if that's continual feedback we get, then it means we're
not a good fit.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
I'd say.
Speaker 6 (23:39):
It doesn't happen a lot because in Discovery, like you know,
we we do tend to ask these questions, but there's
unsucessibl engagements with everybody, right, And I would say oftentimes
it's just because they aren't a fan of maybe how
upfront we are about things, because it look, you're giving
me a decent amount of money, right, and it is
(24:00):
it is It is my duty to tell you if
I think there's a problem and not everybody wants to
hear it the way that I have to say it,
and that's okay, you know, I tell people when they
sign with us. I was like, look, if you're never
mad at me, I'm doing something wrong. I'm your part.
You know, I operate as a part. I write shotgun
(24:20):
with you and doing this business thing. And if we
never disagree and if you're never irritated, I've not done
my job.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Yes, and that's been forthcoming. And you want to work
with somebody that's going to be forthcoming because not only
is you're doing the service for this company, it's also
your reputation on the line as well. So it's a
two way street. So every client that comes to the door,
(24:48):
you will always put have your best foot for it
for them as if it were your own business.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Exactly. That's exactly. That's how we have to treat it.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
And so because we care a lot, we we I
wouldn't say we fight a lot, but like we have
hard conversations regularly.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Yes, Like there's so here's one, here's a good example.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
Actually, So last year we worked with a group who
were in and roundbreak even and having casual problems and
they ended up we ended up parting ways because we
kept telling them, don't do this new thing, don't buy
the new software, cut your costs, reduce the people, don't
hire the expensive operations person, don't expY the expensive software,
(25:35):
don't And we kept saying don't, don't, don't, don't, don't,
and they got sick of it. And for us, though,
they didn't have elastic demand that they could just capture
new demand. And so when that happens, you have to
fix your operations as if your revenue is going to
stay the way that it is. And they didn't like
that viewpoint, and that's okay, but we didn't end up
(25:59):
working well together, and you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Did they understand.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
I think they understood our point of view, and I
just I don't know that they liked it.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I mean, they didn't see it the same way. And
that's tough, Like I get that. I mean, look, there's
so many all roads lead to rome in some cases,
right yeah, And I just again, my logic is that
if you can't just increase your demand all of a sudden,
which they could not, and you can't just buy an
(26:34):
inventory if you have if your demand shoots to the roof,
you couldn't. They couldn't do that either, then I go,
what is your baseline level? Of revenue that you're showing
us today. Make your operations profitable at that baseline. So
whatever that never was it we think it was six
million a year or whatever they were on. And I
was like, you need to make you need to plan
to make fifteen percent at six million. Don't try to
(26:58):
wait till you're ten to make fifteen. Make it now.
And if you and and you know, spend on the growth,
but just reduce operations. Like so for example, they they
wanted to change warehouses to do their own fulfillment, Like
why no, don't do that. It's it's it's not gonna
help you grow. You're gonna save barely anything. And in fact,
(27:18):
the move was more expensive, the racking was more expensive,
it took longer to get up and running, the least
was twice as much. They needed new software that was
twice as much. So there was all these.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Second order costs to that decision.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
And I saw that coming because it we'd been around
the block, and they just didn't They just didn't appreciate
the viewpoint. And I understand, like, you know, it's maybe
in some cases I could say, ah, yes, do this thing,
and here's how I would approach it. But again, for me,
I got to trade stay true to myself and and
I'm not I'm not ever.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
It makes sense, I mean, because they were putting themselves
and all ahead right out the door. And it doesn't
make sense.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Not to me, not to me, you know.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
But but maybe maybe they they found someone that was
a little more of a cowboy about it, and and
maybe they found some capital. Who knows, right, But I'm
of a different I just I see things just a
bit different. Look, I'm not My way isn't the only way.
It's just a good way that will work. And it's
slightly more conservative. And if that doesn't vibe with you, hey,
(28:27):
no problem, right.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Because I'm on the conservative side. I'm not wanting to
jump out into the ocean. No no, no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
No swimming the pool first, that goes well up in
the ocean.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
In a bucket.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Exactly. There a good point, exactly, oh writing there.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
So again, have the companies connect website.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Man, that's the easiest way.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
LinkedIn a x dot co Matt Hoootren on LinkedIn dm me,
fill in contact form. I got people that will reach
out to you real quick and we can get in touch.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Wow. This is a very very interesting conversation, A lot,
a lot of gems dropped here and audience, I hope
you had pen and paper ready and definitely took some notes,
and I am so looking forward to having this conversation again.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Matt.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
It was very those educational, So thank you so much
for taking time out and thank you audience for tuning in.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Thank you this was so great.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Thank you to our guests and you our values.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Audience. Let's stop you by.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
We truly appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Many blessings to you and your orders.
Welcome to Just Minded My Business Media LLC, where you
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Speaker 4 (01:51):
Welcome, Welcome to just mind in on business media. I
hope that you're having an amazing day today. I like
you to meet net Kutra, who is the founder of
eight X, former senior partner and CFO in private equity,
seasoned fractional CFO with over a decade of experience helping
(02:15):
e commerce and consumer brands achieve financial clarity and sustainable growth.
With a track record of turning six figure losses into
seven figure profits and driving three hundred year over year growth,
METH specializes in transforming financial operations for scaling businesses. Wow.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
Yes, it's been a fun ride.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds like it. So
tell us about eight X.
Speaker 6 (02:52):
Yeah, Well, I mean, so I've always wanted to have
a business, and I couldn't think of what I was
going to do and why I was in private equity.
You had a friend asked for some help with his
business and financial modeling and cash full of forecasts and whatnot,
and I helped him and I really enjoyed it and
helped him make a whole bunch of money. And then
he said, can you help my other friend and this
(03:13):
friend and that friend? And so then I was like,
I wonder if I could do this kind of on
the full time basis. So I started off just on
the side of my desk. I was like, I'll pay
for a couple of trip travel a year, maybe, right,
And then it just kept growing and then I was like, well,
let's try to quit my job and see how it goes.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
And that was four years ago.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Basically, yes, and that's how it starts. You know, you
just helping a friend with what you know, and then
you find yourself hmm, I like this.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
That's exactly how it happened. One hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (03:44):
Yes, yes, indeed. So for actional CFO, let's explain what
that means to our audience.
Speaker 6 (03:53):
Sure, so you know, most of us are familiar with
the concept of a full time chief financial officer. So
someone that you pay, you know, anywhere between two and
seven hundred thousand a year, depending on how big the
company is, right, the average would be probably two to
three hundred thousand. And this person is an expert at
accounting and you know finance, so meaning forecasting and planning
(04:15):
and cash flows and banking and insurance and tax and
a bunch of different things, right, And their job is
to make sure the business a few things, stays compliant
with all the governmental agencies that's a big one, doesn't
run out of money another big one, and can afford
to do what the vision of the owner is. So
(04:38):
make sure that the business has resources to achieve the
goals of the owner, right, and if there's a problem,
to see that very early and try to course correct
and fix it.
Speaker 5 (04:49):
So those are the.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
Broad buckets, and a fractional CFO is someone it typically
that has done that in a bigger business and like me,
maybe got tired of working corporately and now wants to
do that on.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
A different scale for a different size of business.
Speaker 6 (05:03):
So for example, like you know, my privatary group, there
was like nine subsidiaries and multi offices and I just didn't.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Want to commute all this any you know.
Speaker 6 (05:13):
And now I were companies that are doing two million
a year, some doing twenty million a year, some thirty,
well a couple one at one hundred, one and eighty.
But I'm working one day a week for some one
of them. I'm working like two days a month for
another one, and then I have four other CFOs that
work with me and doing similar things. And so what
(05:33):
a business owner will get is someone that.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Has experienced at a very high level.
Speaker 6 (05:38):
But they don't have to pay three hundred grand, right
or two hundred grand. You know, you'll pay anywhere from
could be seventy to maybe one hundred and fifty perhaps
depending on how big your needs are, but usually less
than half to half of what you'd be paying a
full time person.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Sometimes.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Yeah, so it's an economical move for big business because.
Speaker 5 (06:07):
Definitely, yeah.
Speaker 6 (06:08):
And you know a lot of times we are actually
more effective than a full timer because we can only
do the things that are the highest ROI rather than
try to work on all the things. And so, I mean,
you know a lot of times someone will outgrow the
need for a fractional they'll need a full time again.
And that's happened a few times for us, and that's
the dream, or they sell their company.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
Okay, So what industries do you work with?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Primarily e commerce and CpG.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
We do a bit of like clean tech, green tech,
and a little bit of SaaS some manufacturing, but primarily
e commerce and CpG.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Okay, okay, So transforming financial operations when you walk into
a company, how does that transformation began?
Speaker 6 (07:01):
Well, the first thing we have to do for anybody
is an audit, right, and we got to figure out
what's going on, how they're doing, how's cash flow, how
is this and that? And the next thing that we
do is we start on a process to build a
financial forecast. And you know, the first thing is we
want to understand revenue. What does revenue look like now
in the future, next couple of years. We need to
(07:25):
understand how does cost a good soul look like, how
does your hiring planning, what's your fixed costs?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
And then we have then we have.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Your profits and outflow from profit, we look at cash low,
and then we look at your balance sheet.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
And so we work, we walk through the pieces.
Speaker 6 (07:40):
Of building a financial forecast, and in so doing we
learn about all the different areas of the business and
by the end of eight weeks typically we have a
very well functioning forecast that's useful for making decisions. Yeah,
I actually just finished the meeting just before this actually
where we delivered their multi your forecast in a way
(08:01):
that made sense, and now we can send it to
a couple lenders and tell the story of where we're
going and how we've changed, and you know, and we
know a lot about this business bright now.
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yes, yes, and a lot of times. You know, that's
a huge thing with businesses because that helps you get money,
you know, loans, things like that. So you need to
have a clear picture of everything. So when what Okay,
I know you said you work with those particular types
(08:32):
of businesses, but do people typically reach out to you
for your services? How's that work?
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Oh? I think it's a mix.
Speaker 6 (08:43):
Now, we do a bit of advertising, we do a
bit of outreach. I'm still predominantly we get inbound in referrals,
I would say, and yeah, but it's a mix of
all the above. I think now like we're growing to
a point where just inbound only is not sustainable. Like
(09:03):
for our size, we're not huge, but we're not small,
and so we we we have to kind of take
our you know, our future into our own hands now
a little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Okay, So if businesses want to work with you, how
do they connect with you?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:20):
I think a really great wadynect with me is on LinkedIn.
You just look at my name, Matt Putra. Our website
is eight x dot co e I g h t
X dot co. I'm on Twitter as the e commerce CFO. Yeah,
any of those places is a great place.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (09:37):
And I mean you turned the company round from a
sixth figure loss to a seventh figure profit. That's amazing.
Can you walk us through what that transaction look like?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (09:54):
So when when this person called me, they had lost
you know, multiple six figures and a couple of years
in a row, and they didn't have a lot of money.
And I was like, look, I don't know, you should
be paying me. You should probably be trying this ABC
and don't give me your money yet. See how those
things go. And they said, well, we really want to
work with you. Can you help us? I was like, look,
(10:16):
maybe I can help you, but you know, but I'm
nervous by taking any money. They're like, no, I want
to give you the money.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Let's work together. Okay. Great.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
So we started with them, We built our forecasts, and
we had to meet once a week, sometimes twice a
week to manage cash flow. Oh, I got to pay
this guy. What should I do about this other guy
who's not going to get paid, and I have to
pay Facebook, but I can't pay my supplier. And I
have to pay Google, but I can't pay pay Facebook.
And so we're banging on the keyboard and managing cash
flows every week.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
And then we went, okay, we.
Speaker 6 (10:45):
Have a little bit of money, Well, what should we
do with it now? And so we well, we can
put it into this advertising or hiring or product, like
what's the best ROI And so we'd be looking at
where should we put the money and what should we do?
And so it was probably about nine months of meeting
weekly or maybe even by week. We just managed and
like cut these expenses and put money in this bucket,
and pay this person, don't pay that person, and just
(11:08):
managing through all that. Then we started started to just
put money in the right spots. It's a little bit
of growth. Then we broke even for the first time,
and then another month we broke even, and then we
negotiate with our suppliers for better terms and we found
a new supplier for better costs and goods sold, and
so then we started to stack these wins and we
made made a little bit of money and then we
(11:29):
went okay, great, Now we went to our lended to say, hey,
we're making more money. Now can we either have more
money from you or better terms from you? And so
we started getting a little bit more money, a little
bit better terms. Then we had okay, we have more money.
Now where do we put this money? And who do
we pay? And you know, so we just started putting
money in the right places. And the way that we
knew they were the right places is we would we
would sort of test what would happen if we put
(11:51):
money here or there and kind of look at the
potential outcomes and you know, and then we would go, okay,
well let's try this and let's monitor it.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
And so we would you know, installed it.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
But surely through negotiating suppliers, getting our cost of goods down,
through managing our cash flow, through getting better payment terms,
through getting better lending, through like you know, we had
a problem once where we sold out of all the
product way faster than we thought we would.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
And what are we gonna do? Well, I was like, well,
that's just pre sell and they're like, well we know
that before. I was like, well, just precell, see how
it goes. So we ended up pre.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
Selling hundreds of thousands of dollars and so look, you know,
it was a lot of work, but one of my
favorite stories because this husband and wife went from losing
six figures a year to making seven figures to now
exiting for eight figures and so they've changed their lives
in three four years that we worked together.
Speaker 5 (12:46):
So it's a super fun story.
Speaker 6 (12:47):
And I will I have to give the owner's credit.
They knew how to make a product that their audience
liked and so and they also were you know, call
it humble enough to just know what they didn't know
and ask me questions all the time. And so we
worked hand in hand for two years straight. And again,
(13:10):
like I said, they'd exeited Freddy figures.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Now, wow, that's that's definitely amazing because and and that's
why they hired you because they don't know. And you know,
most most business owners hire somebody and then they want
to kind of like take the reins and why did
you hire the person if you could do it yourself?
(13:33):
It was the point, you know. So yeah, that sounds
like a great, great connection. They were coachable, you know,
they were willing to try things. You know, so that
leads me to say, ask I should say, you know,
when you're working with a client. When you meet a client,
(13:54):
let's put it that way, there's got to be some
type of chemistry. How do you determine that the chemistry
is there?
Speaker 6 (14:06):
Yeah, well, we don't work with everybody that wants to
work with us. I think you know, our discovery call
processes is a two way discovery. So we got to
figure out, well, we got to demonstrate that we would
make sense for the person. We also need to make
sure that they make sense for us. And so we've
just set up our processes so that you know, I
(14:27):
can get a feeling of do they take advice and
are they willing to think about things in a new way.
Here's a good example and a lesson I learned about this.
Somebody called me, let's say I think it was twenty
twenty two, and they said, hey, can we work together?
I was like, yeah, sure, here's a proposal whatever. They said, Oh, well,
let's wait a year. Literal they called me back and
they said, hey, we have four weeks of cash left.
(14:49):
Can you help us? And I said, yeah, we can help.
Could have done it before. And so we joined them
and we went through their expenses and we said, oh,
your brother actually is actually not a meaningful contributor to
your business.
Speaker 5 (15:02):
You should let him go.
Speaker 6 (15:03):
And your mum is also not a meaningful contributor to
your business, so you should let her go. And you're
in this club that you're not getting any leads from,
so you should quit the club and stop paying them
yearly dues.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
And we went through it.
Speaker 6 (15:17):
We said, hack, hack, hack, all this stuff, and they said, actually,
I don't want to cut any of those expenses. And
we said, but you don't have hardly any actual left
and they said, yeah, well we'll just sell more. And
I was like, it's not that easy, and you know,
like so we ended up not being a good fit
with that person. Another example is someone called me. They
(15:38):
were in the UK and they said, we want we
were on Amazon, we want to expand to shopify, and
I said, you know, turning on a new channel has
a significant amount of risk, and so I said to them,
don't do that. It's a bad idea and they said
why it's like because have you done it before?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
No?
Speaker 6 (15:58):
Do you have a site built already, No they don't.
Do you know how to advertise on Facebook? No they don't.
And so like I said, just do better on Amazon
and I was the only person the interview that told
them that of all the other CFOs, I was the
only one that said, don't do that, just do better
at what you're currently doing. And so you know, I
create some friction points in our discovery process to see,
(16:18):
like are we going to be a good fit.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
I guess yeah, because people business owners, you know, when
they do well in one area, they want to jump
to something else that they have no history, and like
you just said, that's a risk because you don't know
whether it's going to catch well. Then it's going to
take time because you're competing with other people in the
(16:43):
same space and it's going to take time. And persistence,
consistency by the marketing you know, which all costs money.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Definitely, absolutely, And if.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
You don't really have any money, then you need to
where you need to get to a place where you
have enough money for risk.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
Absolutely yep, yes, yes, indeed.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
Wow. Well, this CFO thing I think is the best
thing that ever happened to businesses because like you said,
that three hundred thousand versus half, that's a significant savings
huge for sure. Now you say you work with other
(17:33):
CFOs as well, so I guess everybody has their expertise
in the in the rim of things. So is that
how you function in your company?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
Yeah, we are.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
I think we're fairly e commerce CpG focused, so a
lot of our folks have expertise there, but we don't
hire the typical accountants. Actually, so none of only one
of my people were as a Big four accountant. Otherwise
they were they went through industry. So one of the
guys was an industrial engineer first before finance person. Another
(18:12):
guy went on through the finance side and with e
commerce managed the private group in e commerce.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
I've done a number of things. Another guy was he
was Big.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Four and then ended up in like a specialist in
real estate. And so we try to hire multidisciplinary people,
not just like Big four accountants.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Yeah, so when businesses select a CFO, what are some
of the criteria that you recommend?
Speaker 6 (18:41):
So there's a what's happening now is because people realize
that being a fractional CFO is is an opportunity. You're
getting different types of call it fractional CFOs. So you
get the person that's been a CFO like I was
appointed by a board of way very very cool of
very talented people, and I was appointed and given the role,
(19:04):
and I was registered with then Terror Securities Commission and
all kinds of stuff. Right, So you get people that
were CFOs like officially, you get people that were like
vps and directors, and so I would say that's one bucket.
Is like or if they're a VP director or CFO
a of a mid to bigger size company, you're what
(19:25):
I would call like this might be friction in the market,
but like you're a true CFO, like you've sat in
the seat, You've owned a lot of responsibility. You're responsible
for cash flow. You have to stand up in front
of your peers and say I fucked up or I
didn't right, And so that's one set of people. Then
there are folks that were like controllers in an industry
(19:47):
role and still helpful, but you just have to be
careful which things you need. So a CFO has owned
everything and has to sit in front investors and boards
and and do forward looking. A controller may not have
had that same level, may not have communicate with banks,
will be very good at accounting and historical reporting, but
(20:10):
if you need the forecast thing, you may not.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
You want to use just a controller just in say jest.
So then you have.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
People that there's recently there's been financial analysts, so their
last job in industry was as a financial analyst and
now they call themselves practical CFO. So again can be
useful for the right company and the right need. So
if you have a company where you as an owner
know what you want and know how to forecast, you
just need someone to do the things for you, like
(20:37):
do the modeling, then you can use that person effectively.
But if you don't know finance, if you don't know accounting,
if you don't know how to forecast, if you need
someone to get in front of banks, and you hire
someone who is a financial analyst, you may be setting
yourself up for disappointment, right. And then there's a second
group of people where they were public practice accountants or
(20:59):
are public practice to count and they're adding CFO services
because it's a nice MRR retainer to add. And again
those people can be highly effective in the in the
right situation. So it's on the client to really understand
what they need and if they need very high level
strategic thought, then that's who you hire. If you just
(21:22):
need reporting, you can hire a controller. If you just
need someone to bang on a spreadsheet. You can hire
an analyst, but like you have to be careful about
what you need and ask them what is the latest
role they had in the industry, because if you don't
ask that question, you might get someone who was just
a public parctic account or an analyst or what have you,
because anybody can call themselves a practical CFO at this point, right.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Yes, yes, and that makes sense. Do you due diligence?
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yes, So again, Matt, how do companies connect with you?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (21:56):
Great place is my website so ei gh t x COO.
Speaker 5 (22:01):
I'm also on LinkedIn as Matt Putron. You can find
me on LinkedIn. Both those two places will get a
friendly quick response.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Okay, okay, wow. So this is like this is every
time I talked to CFOs, I learned more and more
and more about how it works and you know some
of the things as a business owner you need to
be about in order to be able to work with
(22:31):
a CFO. So it's very important to understand the roles
that a CFO does and understand your part in it
because it's a partnership. You know, you you you your
job based on what the company gives you. M So,
(22:54):
have you had any any clients that you were like, no, it,
do it because you're getting the information you need to
do your part. Let's put it that way. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
Well, I think if someone doesn't have a bookkeeper and
they're not interested in in one, then we can't actually
do it at all because we're flying blind, right, Like
you have to have bookkeeping done. Where we struggle is
where you know again, where where we look at something
and we go, hey, like, here's some ways to think
about these options, and they don't like any of them. Like,
(23:30):
if that's continual feedback we get, then it means we're
not a good fit.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
I'd say.
Speaker 6 (23:39):
It doesn't happen a lot because in Discovery, like you know,
we we do tend to ask these questions, but there's
unsucessibl engagements with everybody, right, And I would say oftentimes
it's just because they aren't a fan of maybe how
upfront we are about things, because it look, you're giving
me a decent amount of money, right, and it is
(24:00):
it is It is my duty to tell you if
I think there's a problem and not everybody wants to
hear it the way that I have to say it,
and that's okay, you know, I tell people when they
sign with us. I was like, look, if you're never
mad at me, I'm doing something wrong. I'm your part.
You know, I operate as a part. I write shotgun
(24:20):
with you and doing this business thing. And if we
never disagree and if you're never irritated, I've not done
my job.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Yes, and that's been forthcoming. And you want to work
with somebody that's going to be forthcoming because not only
is you're doing the service for this company, it's also
your reputation on the line as well. So it's a
two way street. So every client that comes to the door,
(24:48):
you will always put have your best foot for it
for them as if it were your own business.
Speaker 5 (24:56):
Exactly. That's exactly. That's how we have to treat it.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
And so because we care a lot, we we I
wouldn't say we fight a lot, but like we have
hard conversations regularly.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
Yes, Like there's so here's one, here's a good example.
Speaker 6 (25:12):
Actually, So last year we worked with a group who
were in and roundbreak even and having casual problems and
they ended up we ended up parting ways because we
kept telling them, don't do this new thing, don't buy
the new software, cut your costs, reduce the people, don't
hire the expensive operations person, don't expY the expensive software,
(25:35):
don't And we kept saying don't, don't, don't, don't, don't,
and they got sick of it. And for us, though,
they didn't have elastic demand that they could just capture
new demand. And so when that happens, you have to
fix your operations as if your revenue is going to
stay the way that it is. And they didn't like
that viewpoint, and that's okay, but we didn't end up
(25:59):
working well together, and you know, it is what it is.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Did they understand.
Speaker 6 (26:07):
I think they understood our point of view, and I
just I don't know that they liked it.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I mean, they didn't see it the same way. And
that's tough, Like I get that. I mean, look, there's
so many all roads lead to rome in some cases,
right yeah, And I just again, my logic is that
if you can't just increase your demand all of a sudden,
which they could not, and you can't just buy an
(26:34):
inventory if you have if your demand shoots to the roof,
you couldn't. They couldn't do that either, then I go,
what is your baseline level? Of revenue that you're showing
us today. Make your operations profitable at that baseline. So
whatever that never was it we think it was six
million a year or whatever they were on. And I
was like, you need to make you need to plan
to make fifteen percent at six million. Don't try to
(26:58):
wait till you're ten to make fifteen. Make it now.
And if you and and you know, spend on the growth,
but just reduce operations. Like so for example, they they
wanted to change warehouses to do their own fulfillment, Like
why no, don't do that. It's it's it's not gonna
help you grow. You're gonna save barely anything. And in fact,
(27:18):
the move was more expensive, the racking was more expensive,
it took longer to get up and running, the least
was twice as much. They needed new software that was
twice as much. So there was all these.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
Second order costs to that decision.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
And I saw that coming because it we'd been around
the block, and they just didn't They just didn't appreciate
the viewpoint. And I understand, like, you know, it's maybe
in some cases I could say, ah, yes, do this thing,
and here's how I would approach it. But again, for me,
I got to trade stay true to myself and and
I'm not I'm not ever.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
It makes sense, I mean, because they were putting themselves
and all ahead right out the door. And it doesn't
make sense.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Not to me, not to me, you know.
Speaker 6 (28:04):
But but maybe maybe they they found someone that was
a little more of a cowboy about it, and and
maybe they found some capital. Who knows, right, But I'm
of a different I just I see things just a
bit different. Look, I'm not My way isn't the only way.
It's just a good way that will work. And it's
slightly more conservative. And if that doesn't vibe with you, hey,
(28:27):
no problem, right.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
Because I'm on the conservative side. I'm not wanting to
jump out into the ocean. No no, no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (28:36):
No swimming the pool first, that goes well up in
the ocean.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
In a bucket.
Speaker 5 (28:43):
Exactly. There a good point, exactly, oh writing there.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
So again, have the companies connect website.
Speaker 5 (28:53):
Man, that's the easiest way.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
LinkedIn a x dot co Matt Hoootren on LinkedIn dm me,
fill in contact form. I got people that will reach
out to you real quick and we can get in touch.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
Wow. This is a very very interesting conversation, A lot,
a lot of gems dropped here and audience, I hope
you had pen and paper ready and definitely took some notes,
and I am so looking forward to having this conversation again.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
Matt.
Speaker 4 (29:19):
It was very those educational, So thank you so much
for taking time out and thank you audience for tuning in.
Speaker 5 (29:28):
Thank you this was so great.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Thank you to our guests and you our values.
Speaker 4 (29:36):
Audience. Let's stop you by.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
We truly appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Many blessings to you and your orders.
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