May 15, 2025 • 28 mins
Meet the CMO and co-founder behind one of the fastest-growing creative services in the world. From bootstrapping a startup to building an Inc. 5000 company, Johnathan Grzybowski has redefined how businesses access high-quality creative talent. In this episode, we dive into his journey with a global subscription-based design service, his approach to leadership, and the personal stories that fuel his mission to help others. Whether you're an entrepreneur, creative, or simply navigating the balance between business and family, Johnathan brings real, relatable insights you won’t want to miss.
Johnathan Grzybowski is the CMO and Co-Founder of Penji, a creative subscription service revolutionizing how businesses access top-tier creative talent. Bootstrapped from the ground up, Penji has served thousands of clients worldwide and earned recognition as an Inc. 5000 company. With a background in International Studies and Business, Johnathan transformed early entrepreneurial challenges into opportunities by making creative talent more accessible for businesses of all sizes.
Outside of Penji, Johnathan is a storyteller and content creator. He hosts Dear Dads—a heartfelt platform for fathers to share their journeys, inspired by his love for his family—and Free Ideas, offering entrepreneurs actionable strategies to elevate their businesses daily. As a husband, father, and business leader, Johnathan’s guiding principle is simple: help those who help others. Whether discussing business growth, bootstrapping success, or balancing life and leadership, Johnathan delivers authentic, practical insights to every conversation.
Contact Johnathan:
Email: johnathan@penji.co
Website: https://penji.co/?nab=4
Remember to SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss "Information That You Can Use." Share Just Minding My Business with your family, friends, and colleagues. Engage with us by leaving a review or comment. https://g.page/r/CVKSq-IsFaY9EBM/review Your support keeps this podcast going and growing.
Visit Just Minding My Business Media™ LLC at https://jmmbmediallc.com/ to learn how we can help you get more visibility on your products and services.
Johnathan Grzybowski is the CMO and Co-Founder of Penji, a creative subscription service revolutionizing how businesses access top-tier creative talent. Bootstrapped from the ground up, Penji has served thousands of clients worldwide and earned recognition as an Inc. 5000 company. With a background in International Studies and Business, Johnathan transformed early entrepreneurial challenges into opportunities by making creative talent more accessible for businesses of all sizes.
Outside of Penji, Johnathan is a storyteller and content creator. He hosts Dear Dads—a heartfelt platform for fathers to share their journeys, inspired by his love for his family—and Free Ideas, offering entrepreneurs actionable strategies to elevate their businesses daily. As a husband, father, and business leader, Johnathan’s guiding principle is simple: help those who help others. Whether discussing business growth, bootstrapping success, or balancing life and leadership, Johnathan delivers authentic, practical insights to every conversation.
Contact Johnathan:
Email: johnathan@penji.co
Website: https://penji.co/?nab=4
Remember to SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss "Information That You Can Use." Share Just Minding My Business with your family, friends, and colleagues. Engage with us by leaving a review or comment. https://g.page/r/CVKSq-IsFaY9EBM/review Your support keeps this podcast going and growing.
Visit Just Minding My Business Media™ LLC at https://jmmbmediallc.com/ to learn how we can help you get more visibility on your products and services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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Speaker 2 (00:44):
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Speaker 1 (00:46):
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Speaker 2 (01:49):
Welcome to just Mind the Mob business media. Happy you
could join us today and I am so excited to
bring to you today. Jonathan Gusbowski, who is the CMO
and co founder of Teji, a creative subscription service revolutionizing
(02:10):
how business is access top tier creative talent. Bootstrapped from
the ground up, Penji has served thousands of clients worldwide
and earned recognition as an INK five thousand company. Wow,
Jonathan cool, right, Yeah, you've been doing the durn.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Thing you know. To me, it's just my life at
this point. But I'm very very very very blessed to
be where I'm at in life and business, and and
I think we're just getting started in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yes, yes, because I remember when you first launched this.
We had an interview some years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Wow, I can't wait to catch up. So let's so
tell everybody what Panji. You know, how Panji does this thing?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, for sure. So essentially, Penji's a if you need
help with graphic design or if you need help with
creative services, where a subscription based service. You go on
to our website, you basically pay, and then you get
access to top talent across the world, and if you
(03:24):
have a project in mine, all within twenty four hours,
you'll receive your completed project and then you do whatever
you want with it. So our primary customers are businesses
and agencies, businesses that don't have the need, that don't
have the ability to hire somebody internally, or maybe their
internal team is just overloaded with work. Essentially, you could
(03:47):
pay us anywhere from five hundred to fifteen hundred dollars
a month and then it's like hiring somebody in house essentially.
So rather than necessarily going through the processes of like
interviews and on board and talking to them about your culture,
telling them about your color palettes and your schemes, you
do that directly on Penji, and Penji will do all
(04:08):
the work for you.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Wow, you can't get no better than that, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I like to think.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So yeah, I mean, because our companies don't have that
ability or the skill to even do it themselves.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Correct, Yeah, I mean I would say more more. It's
more about like where do you want to spend your dollar?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Right?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
It depends upon where you are in your business. If
you're a small business, you're probably doing it yourself, so
you're on Canva or you're doing photoshop or whatever it is, Like,
that's primarily like where a lot of it is coming from.
If you're spending an hour five hours a day on
Canva because you're trying to do marketing for your business,
(04:52):
I would say that five hours is probably better suited
trying to get new customers, to make sure that you
get your money right. And if you who if you
have the ability to afford a service like Penji again
for five hundred bucks, then you should probably offload all
of your work so then you can focus on sales.
A lot of times, what I've found is that a
(05:12):
lot of businesses, a lot of business owners, they would
rather get in the weeds and they would rather do
all the dirty work themselves and say that extra cash,
rather than thinking about what they could do with all
that real time. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It does? You just need enough way to spend the.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Money, you know, Yeah, spend the time. Like, I mean,
I'm a father now, and so if I were to
be given back five hours of my day, right, I
would probably spend it, you know, at least two or
three of them with my daughter and the other one
on the business, right, Like, like, that's okay to be
able to do that. And I think a lot of times,
especially small business owners, they don't have the capacity to.
(05:55):
They hold on to their ego a little bit, they
hold on to their baby a little bit too strong,
and they don't want to necessarily give that time and
that money or that resource to a service like Peenji.
So they ended up doing it themselves, and they go
into this endless cycle and this rut of just the spiral,
so to speak, where they're just continuing. They wake up,
they do the same thing every day, They make the
(06:16):
adjustment adjustments, They try to reach out sales, they don't
get a sale, and they go, oh man, okay, on
to the next one. Yeah, And then it's just that
vicious cycle. Whereas like, if you're trying to make it
to the next step, you have to sacrifice, yes.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yes, indeed, and it's all about you know, taking as
much off your plate as possible.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah, I mean, like, if you're a small business owner,
you're wearing a lot of hats, but at the end
of the day, you got to get your money right.
You got to you have to pay your bills, and
paying your bills should be number one priority.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yes, it definitely should be. It definitely should be because
I know I'm at that place now where i'm gate.
You know, it's still my baby, but I need help.
It's only twenty four hours in a day and I
don't want to spend most of it doing mundane tasks.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I mean, that's the beauty of AI as well. AI
has been a formidable help in a lot of ways
for most people. But I still think that the even
the AI aspects still can't help you think about what
you need you. It takes a human to type it.
So you know, you should be able to use and
leverage all the resource that you have available now. Obviously,
(07:36):
if you don't have the resources or the funds to
be able to hire somebody like Penji or even somebody
in house, well then find another alternative. It's still okay
to be able to find that alternative. It doesn't have
to be Peji, it doesn't have to be an employee
but your goal in your business is to maximize profit
as much as you possibly can, right, And it's also
(07:57):
to be able to serve people. Because if you're creating
a business and you're not helping people, then you just
have a hobby. But if you want to be able
to actually help people and you want to be able
to solve their problem, whatever that problem may be, you
you as the small business owner, need to allocate as
much of that time in order to fix your customer's problems.
(08:17):
And that requires you to upsell your customers to a
higher plan, uh or it it requires you to find
new business.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yes, yes, and that's al always a task in itself.
You know that that's a constant task that you should
always be focused on as more business.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah for sure. Yeah. Right, if you don't have sales,
you die, right, like your business dies. And entrepreneurship isn't
for everyone, right or business business isn't for everyone. So
that's why Penji exists, right, Like my personal goal and
passion in life is is to be able to create
(09:02):
creative solutions for small business owners at a fraction of
the cost of a high end agency. So rather than
you don't need to get a really good grad. You
don't need to spend millions of dollars or thousands of
dollars on a good graphic, on a good logo, right,
you don't need to spend a million dollars on a
good website. You don't need to spend a million dollars
on you know, creative outreach and programs and things like that.
(09:26):
My hope and my mission and purpose on this planet
is to be able to provide those services at a
discounted rate. So then everybody has an equal playing ground
now from a financial standpoint. But the difference between the
people who are going to make it and not are
the people who know what to do with the money
and also know what to do with the service the
service is.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely wow. So let's talk about your humble beginnings.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, not like a rich kid. My parent, my dad
was a FedEx worker. My dad were for FedEx for
twenty five thirty plus years, and my mom was a
stay at home mom. You know, I'm just a kid
that wanted more in life than what others people around
(10:15):
me have always wanted in themselves. So you know, I
think I'm just a kid that doesn't quit, and you
can't quit.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And then once you get so far your business quit
quitting is not an option at all.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah. I mean I'm at a point now where you know,
they are employees that have families, and one woman in
particular just had her first child, and you know there's
people now that it's not just about me anymore in
the business. It's about the people that are trusting me
(10:53):
and my co founder to do the right thing, and
we need to make sure that we do the right thing.
So you can't let them down.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Absolutely, And that's one of the things when you get
when you get your first employee, it it's like having
a baby. Yeah, for sure, I have somebody that you're responsible.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
For, Yeah, and respecting it like it is your own child,
even though it's not.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yes, absolutely, So if people want to get in touch
with you, how do they do so?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Absolutely? Peng dot co O p E n j I
dot c O. Or if I provided any value to
this particular podcast, you know my emails Jonathan at Peng
dot co O, p E n j I Jonathan j
O h n A t h A n at Peng
dot dot co Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yes, wow, wow, Wow, I'm so glad we we hooked
up again. Okay, So let's talk a little bit about
custom experience. That seems to be you know the buzz
were for right now, but not all people, all companies
know what it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Means, sure like customer experience. Yeah, I mean, you know
when you first open up an Apple iPhone? Right, what
do you what do you experience? Right? Nostalgia? Joy, excitement? Uh?
(12:25):
What happens when you open up of you know, a
glass of a bottle of water?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Like?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Not not that much excitement? And rightfully so uh so,
the customer experience to me, is probably the most important
aspects of all things, simply because it's the first interaction
that somebody has with your product or service, and it's
the lasting impression that they have on the product or service.
(12:52):
So therefore, you, as a business owner, you should invest
as much money as you possibly can to deliver the
best possible experience. It's known to man. In our case
for Penji, we start every conversation, every call, every time
somebody becomes a customer with a phone call, Hey, thank
you so much for being a customer. We're very grateful.
(13:14):
We review to your account and we have some questions,
and then from there it leads to a video call
and then more calls and more video and more video.
The idea is to make sure that the customer feels
as human and valued as possible, and make sure that
they understand that like we as a business truly care
(13:35):
about them. We're a B to B business, so we
deal with a lot of people like yourself who have children,
so to speak, in the form of their their business,
and we want them to feel that we can. We
want them to know that they could trust us with
their marketing and their branding.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yes. Yes, And that's so important because that's one of
my criteria is when I've worked with a business, can
I talk to you?
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah? For sure, I would agree.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I hate that push button, press one, press to and
email support, you know, tech support. I hate all of that. Yeah,
and I think most people do.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I would agree. Like if you're if you're frustrated or angry,
if you want to if you want to feel heard,
especially from a service standpoint, like you need your question answered,
Like you need to be able to You need to
be able to call a number and talk to somebody
directly that's going to be able to solve your problem.
You don't want to be waiting on hold for sixteen
minutes in order to make sure that that problem is solved.
(14:42):
You want it done now, And that's more or less
what Penji's trying to do. We want to make sure
that if you have a concern or question or thought
like your voices be able to is going to be
heard like almost immediately.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, And that is all all a part of the
customer experience, and it's a very important part. And understand
a deal breaker for a lot of people, because it
doesn't even matter how great you are what you do,
if something goes wrong and they can't talk to you,
that's a deal breaker.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Couldn't agree more, Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I know it is for me. I'm one of those people.
I like to talk.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Rightfully so and and you should you should want that
right like like, if you're spending any any dollar amount period,
you you should work with a company or a service
that is able to fulfill that need or desire, right Like,
why waste your time or your money on something that
(15:45):
just doesn't that doesn't work for you? Right Like, your
money is valuable and you should know how to spend
that money. And you shouldn't accept anything less than perfection.
And that's should it should be that way. And so
I would say that if you are working with an employee,
(16:06):
like I actually just got a conversation just now about
is this person in the company performing to the caliber
that we want or are they just meeting the bare
minimum of their job expectations? Like, you shouldn't want a
mediocre person on your team. You should want exceptional. So
(16:28):
imagine if you're riding, If you're riding in a boat
and you have people rowing on the sides, right, if
you're trying to get to the destination, then how quickly
are you going to get there? If somebody mediocre is
rowing the boat, you want to get there as fast
as possible, right, So therefore you you should get there
(16:49):
as fast as possible, and you should only work with
people and teams that are able to push you to
that limit. And if that's not that person, then in
my opinion, they don't be long in your company or
they don't belong on your Team's nothing against the person,
it's just that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, And also, since you started talking about that, the
culture of the company as well, it is important to
create that quote unquote go beyond the call for sure.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, and it's not always going to be perfect. I mean,
culture can be can be defined in a lot of ways,
but I just think at the end of it all,
like what's most important is treating other people like humans
and making sure that people feel respected even if they're
(17:44):
not a good fit for the company or either if
they're not, they're they're not best for business. So company
culture and at Penji is more or less about fairness.
Are you treat it fairly? Like like, numbers don't lie, right,
(18:05):
So at Penje, everything is quantifiable to the best of
our ability. And the reason is because, well, if you
can numerically drive business, then that means that if it's
like you're not making emotional decisions, if that makes sense, right,
So like you you're I if somebody's goal is one
(18:27):
hundred one hundred emails a day, right, and they don't
meet one hundred emails a day, that's not your fault,
that's their fault. And so as a manager, how are
you going to judge that person? You're going to judge
them based on the numbers. Now, you could be a philanthropist,
you could be Mother Teresa, you could be a saint,
(18:51):
but that doesn't take you away that you can't send
one hundred emails a day if that's your goal, if
that's the metrics, that you have to meet them. So
you could be the sweetest, nicest person on planet Earth.
You could also be an asshole. But you you're if
you got to hit the numbers. And so now obviously
we don't necessarily want to work with people who are,
(19:13):
you know, buttholes. But you know, you hit the numbers
and you you understand what those numbers are, and you're
also inherently a good person. That that is a great
recipe for a good a good company culture. But I
don't think that you should just create a company based
(19:33):
for fun right, Like it should be ran like a
business and you can have funnel on the way. But
I think for the most part, it's a business. It's
it's it's not a hobby, right.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Right, It's two different things, that's for sure. So Nan,
you're dead lations as it is. Yeah, so you're a
brand new dad.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
How old she's six months?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Okay? So how are you juggling with the business and
being a new dad.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I'm struggling. No, I mean, you know, it's a blessing.
It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. And
you know, I think, do you I never asked before
you do you have children?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I have one, awesome may I asked, like how old.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh he's grown now. He's twenty eight years old now.
But I remember, like it was yesterday day. It was
like when he started crying at two o'clock in the morning,
I thought I was dreaming until it got loud.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean that's very I mean
she's six and a half months and it's gone by
in like literally it feels like hours. But I would
say from a business standpoint, you know, time is the
most valuable asset you could possibly have, and juggling that
(21:10):
time frame is really difficult because I'm a different type
of tire now, Like I get sit in front of
a computer all day and I can sit and finish
and solve these equations and problems that I currently have
in business. But then I like hang out with her
and my wife, and it's it's emotionally and draining in
the best way possible. But it's just a balancing act,
(21:33):
you know, Like you really have to be able to
know that, like, hey, that problem that you have right
now could probably wait because your daughter's smile is far
more important than you know, the bit the problem in
the business, Like the business is never gonna just crumble.
It can, but it's usually because of cascading events that
(21:54):
have happened way beyond that one scenario. And so how
my balancing and I feel like it it's like the
hardest and the best thing. And then another thought too
is like and again I don't know if you had
this this this scenario, but like as a as a male,
as a man, you know, the society has always provided
(22:14):
said that you need to be like a provider, and
there's an inherent type of pressure that I've had as
a father to provide but also be you know, loving
and caring at the same time, if that makes sense. Yeah,
So like obviously my wife, my wife has an amazing
(22:35):
job and she and she loves what she does, and
I obviously love what I do, but you know, the
goal is to be able to make make sure that
everybody's happy, safe and protected and they never have to
work a day in their life. And there's like an
an added pressure that I love. But it's a different
it's a different it means different now if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right, right? Must that baby? I mean that first day
is like, oh my god, I'm responsible for a little
a little person. Now that's a big job. It's one
of the biggest jobs you will ever have in.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Life, very much so agree with that. And it's forever
changing too. The first three months i'd say were very
difficult because there's no for me as a first time pairing,
there's no expectations. I had no idea what to expect.
But then now like month six, she's like her personality
is showing and it's like it's magical and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yes, yes, with congratulations and Julie every every moment of it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Sure, Wow, this has been awesome. And before we got
on air, we were talking about how I remembered I
think our interview was maybe four or five.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Years ago, maybe most likely. Yeah, and we had.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
The conversation about you traveling to Vietnam. Yeah, that stuck
with me all this time, and how important it is
to travel.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, I definitely think it's important to travel, uh, for
for me in particular, I have business there, right, so
like example that my business partner is Vietnamese, so inherently
that's like you know that that's something that like we
(24:30):
have employees in Vietnam, in addition that we now have
employees in the Philippines and we have employees in multiple
other countries as well. So for me, when I think
of travel like I'm going there for work, not really
for pleasure. But with that said, I think that if
you have the means and the capability of doing so,
(24:52):
you you should travel outside of where you work every
single day in order to get a new perspective. And
I would also recommend experiencing other people's cultures so then
you can be a well, a more informed human being
and understand that the how economies work, and and just
(25:14):
talk to different people from different backgrounds so you can
gain a more worldly perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I'd say yes, I have to agree with you, because
you know, everybody has all the cultures have something different,
the beliefs, you know, and it's it's fun to learn
different people while they are the way they are.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
And I think it's going to make you a better
business professional as well. Like, for example, the Vietnamese culture
is completely different than America. America is like face down
in their phones, face down in their work ethic, and
they value their job quite a bit. And then people
(26:02):
in Vietnam, it's it's sure very similar to that, but
I would say they're probably more family oriented than most,
and they value smaller things like Americans want big, lavish,
big house, big car, you know, loud, whatever, And I'd say,
(26:22):
I'm sure there are a lot of people in different
cultures that want that as well, but I'm pretty sure
that they're probably okay with not having that more than
they are the desire of oh my god, I need
it right now.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah. Absolutely, Wow, this has been amazing, and you know,
I we definitely got to do this again. It's been
too long.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, things have changed quite a bit since we last chatted.
You know, I think five or so years or so ago,
the company was probably at you know, maybe maybe like
twenty five fifty employees and and now you know, we
have different employees in ten different countries, all all across
(27:07):
the world, and and service thousands of customers on a
on a daily basis. Uh. And it's just I go
back to the word blessing it it it really is just,
it really is just that, and it's been a it's
been a fun ride. And like I said before, it's
it's just it's just the beginning. Even though it's been
like five ten years or so it is it is
(27:27):
just the beginning.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yes, Yes, we're always evolving, Amen, always evolving. Well, thank
you so much, Jonathan for taking time out. I truly
appreciate you. And definitely we're not going to make it
this long again because, uh, you know, I always like
to chit chat and see what's going on in the
(27:49):
in your world.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's been a pleasure and I'm really excited
to see you again as well. And I'm really grateful
for another episode on this podcast. And and I'm I'm
I hope that anybody that was listening to this is
there's value in it and that you learned a lot.
And if you didn't, I'm sorry. If you did, awesome,
hit me up anytime. I gave you my email, Jonathan
and Pendio, I'm always available to help.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Absolutely well, thank you so much, and thank you audience
for tuning it. Thank you to our guests and you
our value audience. Let's stop you by.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
We truly appreciate you. Many blessings to you and yours
Welcome to Just Minded My Business Media LLC, where you
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Speaker 2 (01:49):
Welcome to just Mind the Mob business media. Happy you
could join us today and I am so excited to
bring to you today. Jonathan Gusbowski, who is the CMO
and co founder of Teji, a creative subscription service revolutionizing
(02:10):
how business is access top tier creative talent. Bootstrapped from
the ground up, Penji has served thousands of clients worldwide
and earned recognition as an INK five thousand company. Wow,
Jonathan cool, right, Yeah, you've been doing the durn.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Thing you know. To me, it's just my life at
this point. But I'm very very very very blessed to
be where I'm at in life and business, and and
I think we're just getting started in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yes, yes, because I remember when you first launched this.
We had an interview some years ago.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Wow, I can't wait to catch up. So let's so
tell everybody what Panji. You know, how Panji does this thing?
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Yeah, for sure. So essentially, Penji's a if you need
help with graphic design or if you need help with
creative services, where a subscription based service. You go on
to our website, you basically pay, and then you get
access to top talent across the world, and if you
(03:24):
have a project in mine, all within twenty four hours,
you'll receive your completed project and then you do whatever
you want with it. So our primary customers are businesses
and agencies, businesses that don't have the need, that don't
have the ability to hire somebody internally, or maybe their
internal team is just overloaded with work. Essentially, you could
(03:47):
pay us anywhere from five hundred to fifteen hundred dollars
a month and then it's like hiring somebody in house essentially.
So rather than necessarily going through the processes of like
interviews and on board and talking to them about your culture,
telling them about your color palettes and your schemes, you
do that directly on Penji, and Penji will do all
(04:08):
the work for you.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Wow, you can't get no better than that, that's for sure.
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I like to think.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So yeah, I mean, because our companies don't have that
ability or the skill to even do it themselves.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
Correct, Yeah, I mean I would say more more. It's
more about like where do you want to spend your dollar?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Right?
Speaker 4 (04:32):
It depends upon where you are in your business. If
you're a small business, you're probably doing it yourself, so
you're on Canva or you're doing photoshop or whatever it is, Like,
that's primarily like where a lot of it is coming from.
If you're spending an hour five hours a day on
Canva because you're trying to do marketing for your business,
(04:52):
I would say that five hours is probably better suited
trying to get new customers, to make sure that you
get your money right. And if you who if you
have the ability to afford a service like Penji again
for five hundred bucks, then you should probably offload all
of your work so then you can focus on sales.
A lot of times, what I've found is that a
(05:12):
lot of businesses, a lot of business owners, they would
rather get in the weeds and they would rather do
all the dirty work themselves and say that extra cash,
rather than thinking about what they could do with all
that real time. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It does? You just need enough way to spend the.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
Money, you know, Yeah, spend the time. Like, I mean,
I'm a father now, and so if I were to
be given back five hours of my day, right, I
would probably spend it, you know, at least two or
three of them with my daughter and the other one
on the business, right, Like, like, that's okay to be
able to do that. And I think a lot of times,
especially small business owners, they don't have the capacity to.
(05:55):
They hold on to their ego a little bit, they
hold on to their baby a little bit too strong,
and they don't want to necessarily give that time and
that money or that resource to a service like Peenji.
So they ended up doing it themselves, and they go
into this endless cycle and this rut of just the spiral,
so to speak, where they're just continuing. They wake up,
they do the same thing every day, They make the
(06:16):
adjustment adjustments, They try to reach out sales, they don't
get a sale, and they go, oh man, okay, on
to the next one. Yeah, And then it's just that
vicious cycle. Whereas like, if you're trying to make it
to the next step, you have to sacrifice, yes.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yes, indeed, and it's all about you know, taking as
much off your plate as possible.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
Yeah, I mean, like, if you're a small business owner,
you're wearing a lot of hats, but at the end
of the day, you got to get your money right.
You got to you have to pay your bills, and
paying your bills should be number one priority.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yes, it definitely should be. It definitely should be because
I know I'm at that place now where i'm gate.
You know, it's still my baby, but I need help.
It's only twenty four hours in a day and I
don't want to spend most of it doing mundane tasks.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
I mean, that's the beauty of AI as well. AI
has been a formidable help in a lot of ways
for most people. But I still think that the even
the AI aspects still can't help you think about what
you need you. It takes a human to type it.
So you know, you should be able to use and
leverage all the resource that you have available now. Obviously,
(07:36):
if you don't have the resources or the funds to
be able to hire somebody like Penji or even somebody
in house, well then find another alternative. It's still okay
to be able to find that alternative. It doesn't have
to be Peji, it doesn't have to be an employee
but your goal in your business is to maximize profit
as much as you possibly can, right, And it's also
(07:57):
to be able to serve people. Because if you're creating
a business and you're not helping people, then you just
have a hobby. But if you want to be able
to actually help people and you want to be able
to solve their problem, whatever that problem may be, you
you as the small business owner, need to allocate as
much of that time in order to fix your customer's problems.
(08:17):
And that requires you to upsell your customers to a
higher plan, uh or it it requires you to find
new business.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yes, yes, and that's al always a task in itself.
You know that that's a constant task that you should
always be focused on as more business.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah for sure. Yeah. Right, if you don't have sales,
you die, right, like your business dies. And entrepreneurship isn't
for everyone, right or business business isn't for everyone. So
that's why Penji exists, right, Like my personal goal and
passion in life is is to be able to create
(09:02):
creative solutions for small business owners at a fraction of
the cost of a high end agency. So rather than
you don't need to get a really good grad. You
don't need to spend millions of dollars or thousands of
dollars on a good graphic, on a good logo, right,
you don't need to spend a million dollars on a
good website. You don't need to spend a million dollars
on you know, creative outreach and programs and things like that.
(09:26):
My hope and my mission and purpose on this planet
is to be able to provide those services at a
discounted rate. So then everybody has an equal playing ground
now from a financial standpoint. But the difference between the
people who are going to make it and not are
the people who know what to do with the money
and also know what to do with the service the
service is.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely wow. So let's talk about your humble beginnings.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Yeah, not like a rich kid. My parent, my dad
was a FedEx worker. My dad were for FedEx for
twenty five thirty plus years, and my mom was a
stay at home mom. You know, I'm just a kid
that wanted more in life than what others people around
(10:15):
me have always wanted in themselves. So you know, I
think I'm just a kid that doesn't quit, and you
can't quit.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
And then once you get so far your business quit
quitting is not an option at all.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah. I mean I'm at a point now where you know,
they are employees that have families, and one woman in
particular just had her first child, and you know there's
people now that it's not just about me anymore in
the business. It's about the people that are trusting me
(10:53):
and my co founder to do the right thing, and
we need to make sure that we do the right thing.
So you can't let them down.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Absolutely, And that's one of the things when you get
when you get your first employee, it it's like having
a baby. Yeah, for sure, I have somebody that you're responsible.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
For, Yeah, and respecting it like it is your own child,
even though it's not.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yes, absolutely, So if people want to get in touch
with you, how do they do so?
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Absolutely? Peng dot co O p E n j I
dot c O. Or if I provided any value to
this particular podcast, you know my emails Jonathan at Peng
dot co O, p E n j I Jonathan j
O h n A t h A n at Peng
dot dot co Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Yes, wow, wow, Wow, I'm so glad we we hooked
up again. Okay, So let's talk a little bit about
custom experience. That seems to be you know the buzz
were for right now, but not all people, all companies
know what it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Means, sure like customer experience. Yeah, I mean, you know
when you first open up an Apple iPhone? Right, what
do you what do you experience? Right? Nostalgia? Joy, excitement? Uh?
(12:25):
What happens when you open up of you know, a
glass of a bottle of water?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Like?
Speaker 4 (12:31):
Not not that much excitement? And rightfully so uh so,
the customer experience to me, is probably the most important
aspects of all things, simply because it's the first interaction
that somebody has with your product or service, and it's
the lasting impression that they have on the product or service.
(12:52):
So therefore, you, as a business owner, you should invest
as much money as you possibly can to deliver the
best possible experience. It's known to man. In our case
for Penji, we start every conversation, every call, every time
somebody becomes a customer with a phone call, Hey, thank
you so much for being a customer. We're very grateful.
(13:14):
We review to your account and we have some questions,
and then from there it leads to a video call
and then more calls and more video and more video.
The idea is to make sure that the customer feels
as human and valued as possible, and make sure that
they understand that like we as a business truly care
(13:35):
about them. We're a B to B business, so we
deal with a lot of people like yourself who have children,
so to speak, in the form of their their business,
and we want them to feel that we can. We
want them to know that they could trust us with
their marketing and their branding.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yes. Yes, And that's so important because that's one of
my criteria is when I've worked with a business, can
I talk to you?
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Yeah? For sure, I would agree.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I hate that push button, press one, press to and
email support, you know, tech support. I hate all of that. Yeah,
and I think most people do.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
I would agree. Like if you're if you're frustrated or angry,
if you want to if you want to feel heard,
especially from a service standpoint, like you need your question answered,
Like you need to be able to You need to
be able to call a number and talk to somebody
directly that's going to be able to solve your problem.
You don't want to be waiting on hold for sixteen
minutes in order to make sure that that problem is solved.
(14:42):
You want it done now, And that's more or less
what Penji's trying to do. We want to make sure
that if you have a concern or question or thought
like your voices be able to is going to be
heard like almost immediately.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yes, And that is all all a part of the
customer experience, and it's a very important part. And understand
a deal breaker for a lot of people, because it
doesn't even matter how great you are what you do,
if something goes wrong and they can't talk to you,
that's a deal breaker.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
Couldn't agree more, Absolutely, couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
I know it is for me. I'm one of those people.
I like to talk.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Rightfully so and and you should you should want that
right like like, if you're spending any any dollar amount period,
you you should work with a company or a service
that is able to fulfill that need or desire, right Like,
why waste your time or your money on something that
(15:45):
just doesn't that doesn't work for you? Right Like, your
money is valuable and you should know how to spend
that money. And you shouldn't accept anything less than perfection.
And that's should it should be that way. And so
I would say that if you are working with an employee,
(16:06):
like I actually just got a conversation just now about
is this person in the company performing to the caliber
that we want or are they just meeting the bare
minimum of their job expectations? Like, you shouldn't want a
mediocre person on your team. You should want exceptional. So
(16:28):
imagine if you're riding, If you're riding in a boat
and you have people rowing on the sides, right, if
you're trying to get to the destination, then how quickly
are you going to get there? If somebody mediocre is
rowing the boat, you want to get there as fast
as possible, right, So therefore you you should get there
(16:49):
as fast as possible, and you should only work with
people and teams that are able to push you to
that limit. And if that's not that person, then in
my opinion, they don't be long in your company or
they don't belong on your Team's nothing against the person,
it's just that's just the way it is.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, And also, since you started talking about that, the
culture of the company as well, it is important to
create that quote unquote go beyond the call for sure.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Yeah, and it's not always going to be perfect. I mean,
culture can be can be defined in a lot of ways,
but I just think at the end of it all,
like what's most important is treating other people like humans
and making sure that people feel respected even if they're
(17:44):
not a good fit for the company or either if
they're not, they're they're not best for business. So company
culture and at Penji is more or less about fairness.
Are you treat it fairly? Like like, numbers don't lie, right,
(18:05):
So at Penje, everything is quantifiable to the best of
our ability. And the reason is because, well, if you
can numerically drive business, then that means that if it's
like you're not making emotional decisions, if that makes sense, right,
So like you you're I if somebody's goal is one
(18:27):
hundred one hundred emails a day, right, and they don't
meet one hundred emails a day, that's not your fault,
that's their fault. And so as a manager, how are
you going to judge that person? You're going to judge
them based on the numbers. Now, you could be a philanthropist,
you could be Mother Teresa, you could be a saint,
(18:51):
but that doesn't take you away that you can't send
one hundred emails a day if that's your goal, if
that's the metrics, that you have to meet them. So
you could be the sweetest, nicest person on planet Earth.
You could also be an asshole. But you you're if
you got to hit the numbers. And so now obviously
we don't necessarily want to work with people who are,
(19:13):
you know, buttholes. But you know, you hit the numbers
and you you understand what those numbers are, and you're
also inherently a good person. That that is a great
recipe for a good a good company culture. But I
don't think that you should just create a company based
(19:33):
for fun right, Like it should be ran like a
business and you can have funnel on the way. But
I think for the most part, it's a business. It's
it's it's not a hobby, right.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Right, It's two different things, that's for sure. So Nan,
you're dead lations as it is. Yeah, so you're a
brand new dad.
Speaker 4 (20:01):
How old she's six months?
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Okay? So how are you juggling with the business and
being a new dad.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
I'm struggling. No, I mean, you know, it's a blessing.
It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. And
you know, I think, do you I never asked before
you do you have children?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (20:28):
I have one, awesome may I asked, like how old.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh he's grown now. He's twenty eight years old now.
But I remember, like it was yesterday day. It was
like when he started crying at two o'clock in the morning,
I thought I was dreaming until it got loud.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean that's very I mean
she's six and a half months and it's gone by
in like literally it feels like hours. But I would
say from a business standpoint, you know, time is the
most valuable asset you could possibly have, and juggling that
(21:10):
time frame is really difficult because I'm a different type
of tire now, Like I get sit in front of
a computer all day and I can sit and finish
and solve these equations and problems that I currently have
in business. But then I like hang out with her
and my wife, and it's it's emotionally and draining in
the best way possible. But it's just a balancing act,
(21:33):
you know, Like you really have to be able to
know that, like, hey, that problem that you have right
now could probably wait because your daughter's smile is far
more important than you know, the bit the problem in
the business, Like the business is never gonna just crumble.
It can, but it's usually because of cascading events that
(21:54):
have happened way beyond that one scenario. And so how
my balancing and I feel like it it's like the
hardest and the best thing. And then another thought too
is like and again I don't know if you had
this this this scenario, but like as a as a male,
as a man, you know, the society has always provided
(22:14):
said that you need to be like a provider, and
there's an inherent type of pressure that I've had as
a father to provide but also be you know, loving
and caring at the same time, if that makes sense. Yeah,
So like obviously my wife, my wife has an amazing
(22:35):
job and she and she loves what she does, and
I obviously love what I do, but you know, the
goal is to be able to make make sure that
everybody's happy, safe and protected and they never have to
work a day in their life. And there's like an
an added pressure that I love. But it's a different
it's a different it means different now if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Right, right? Must that baby? I mean that first day
is like, oh my god, I'm responsible for a little
a little person. Now that's a big job. It's one
of the biggest jobs you will ever have in.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Life, very much so agree with that. And it's forever
changing too. The first three months i'd say were very
difficult because there's no for me as a first time pairing,
there's no expectations. I had no idea what to expect.
But then now like month six, she's like her personality
is showing and it's like it's magical and beautiful.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yes, yes, with congratulations and Julie every every moment of it.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Sure, Wow, this has been awesome. And before we got
on air, we were talking about how I remembered I
think our interview was maybe four or five.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Years ago, maybe most likely. Yeah, and we had.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
The conversation about you traveling to Vietnam. Yeah, that stuck
with me all this time, and how important it is
to travel.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Yeah, I definitely think it's important to travel, uh, for
for me in particular, I have business there, right, so
like example that my business partner is Vietnamese, so inherently
that's like you know that that's something that like we
(24:30):
have employees in Vietnam, in addition that we now have
employees in the Philippines and we have employees in multiple
other countries as well. So for me, when I think
of travel like I'm going there for work, not really
for pleasure. But with that said, I think that if
you have the means and the capability of doing so,
(24:52):
you you should travel outside of where you work every
single day in order to get a new perspective. And
I would also recommend experiencing other people's cultures so then
you can be a well, a more informed human being
and understand that the how economies work, and and just
(25:14):
talk to different people from different backgrounds so you can
gain a more worldly perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I'd say yes, I have to agree with you, because
you know, everybody has all the cultures have something different,
the beliefs, you know, and it's it's fun to learn
different people while they are the way they are.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
And I think it's going to make you a better
business professional as well. Like, for example, the Vietnamese culture
is completely different than America. America is like face down
in their phones, face down in their work ethic, and
they value their job quite a bit. And then people
(26:02):
in Vietnam, it's it's sure very similar to that, but
I would say they're probably more family oriented than most,
and they value smaller things like Americans want big, lavish,
big house, big car, you know, loud, whatever, And I'd say,
(26:22):
I'm sure there are a lot of people in different
cultures that want that as well, but I'm pretty sure
that they're probably okay with not having that more than
they are the desire of oh my god, I need
it right now.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah. Absolutely, Wow, this has been amazing, and you know,
I we definitely got to do this again. It's been
too long.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Yeah, things have changed quite a bit since we last chatted.
You know, I think five or so years or so ago,
the company was probably at you know, maybe maybe like
twenty five fifty employees and and now you know, we
have different employees in ten different countries, all all across
(27:07):
the world, and and service thousands of customers on a
on a daily basis. Uh. And it's just I go
back to the word blessing it it it really is just,
it really is just that, and it's been a it's
been a fun ride. And like I said before, it's
it's just it's just the beginning. Even though it's been
like five ten years or so it is it is
(27:27):
just the beginning.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yes, Yes, we're always evolving, Amen, always evolving. Well, thank
you so much, Jonathan for taking time out. I truly
appreciate you. And definitely we're not going to make it
this long again because, uh, you know, I always like
to chit chat and see what's going on in the
(27:49):
in your world.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's been a pleasure and I'm really excited
to see you again as well. And I'm really grateful
for another episode on this podcast. And and I'm I'm
I hope that anybody that was listening to this is
there's value in it and that you learned a lot.
And if you didn't, I'm sorry. If you did, awesome,
hit me up anytime. I gave you my email, Jonathan
and Pendio, I'm always available to help.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Absolutely well, thank you so much, and thank you audience
for tuning it. Thank you to our guests and you
our value audience. Let's stop you by.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
We truly appreciate you. Many blessings to you and yours
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