December 4, 2025 • 28 mins
Join us as we chat with Kevin Roy, CEO and Co-Founder of Green Banana SEO, about his unique approach to search engine optimization and digital marketing for businesses. He shares valuable business tips and insights into video editing. This conversation is a must-listen for any entrepreneur looking to improve their content marketing strategies.
KEVIN ROY is the CEO and co-founder of GreenBanana SEO, a digital marketing agency born from a radical idea: performance-based SEO that guarantees Page One Google rankings—or clients don’t pay. With over 20 years of experience across various industries such as finance, biotech, retail, and manufacturing, Kevin has a proven track record of helping companies grow, improve customer experience, and boost profits through effective marketing strategies.
Kevin has always been ahead of the curve—especially now, as marketing rapidly shifts with AI tools like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini. He knows that most business leaders don’t have time to figure out all the new tech, and that’s where he comes in. Kevin helps business owners understand how to utilize these tools to increase online visibility, connect with the right customers, and stay competitive in a rapidly evolving digital landscape.
Contact details:
Business: Green Banana SEO
Email: kroy@greenbananaseo.com
Website: greenbananaseo.com
Social Media
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/company/greenbananaseo
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GreenBananaSEO/
Remember to SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss "Information That You Can Use." Share Just Minding My Business with your family, friends, and colleagues. Engage with us by leaving a review or comment on my Google Business Page. Your support keeps this podcast going and growing.
Visit Just Minding My Business Media™ LLC at https://jmmbmediallc.com/ to learn how we can help you get more visibility on your products and services.
KEVIN ROY is the CEO and co-founder of GreenBanana SEO, a digital marketing agency born from a radical idea: performance-based SEO that guarantees Page One Google rankings—or clients don’t pay. With over 20 years of experience across various industries such as finance, biotech, retail, and manufacturing, Kevin has a proven track record of helping companies grow, improve customer experience, and boost profits through effective marketing strategies.
Kevin has always been ahead of the curve—especially now, as marketing rapidly shifts with AI tools like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini. He knows that most business leaders don’t have time to figure out all the new tech, and that’s where he comes in. Kevin helps business owners understand how to utilize these tools to increase online visibility, connect with the right customers, and stay competitive in a rapidly evolving digital landscape.
Contact details:
Business: Green Banana SEO
Email: kroy@greenbananaseo.com
Website: greenbananaseo.com
Social Media
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/company/greenbananaseo
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GreenBananaSEO/
Remember to SUBSCRIBE so you don't miss "Information That You Can Use." Share Just Minding My Business with your family, friends, and colleagues. Engage with us by leaving a review or comment on my Google Business Page. Your support keeps this podcast going and growing.
Visit Just Minding My Business Media™ LLC at https://jmmbmediallc.com/ to learn how we can help you get more visibility on your products and services.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
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(00:33):
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Speaker 1 (01:26):
Welcome to Just Fonding my Business Media. I'm happy that
you joined us today. I am so excited to bring
to you this day. Kevin Rory, who is the CEO
and co founder of Green Banana SEO, which is a
digital marketing agency born from a radical idea of performance
(01:49):
based SEO that guarantees page one Google ranking or clients
don't pay.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Wow, that's a big claim.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Man. With over twenty years of experience across various industries
such as finance, biotech, retail, and manufacturing, Kevin has a
proven track record of helping companies grow, improve custom experience,
and boost profits through effective marketing strategies. Welcome, Welcome, Kevin.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Thank you for having me and thank you for.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Taking time out because this is always, you know, the
top number one issue with people really don't understand SEO.
That's pretty much the real issue. So can we just
talk about it and define it for folks?
Speaker 5 (02:47):
Sure, I'm happy to help. So pre AIO was about
getting your site ranking on page one in a you
know Google or thing. It's primarily Google, you know, that's
where ninety percent of the draffic was coming from. And
the secrets there ranking on page one. And actually it's
(03:09):
the same secret to ranking and AI is relevant. Google's
job is to return the most relevant page for the
keyword phrase that you're typing in. So if you google basketball,
Wikipedia is usually number one or number two, right next
to the NBA, and that page, that Wikipedia page is
(03:30):
relevant to the keyword phrase basketball and their own links
pointing to it that are relevant to basketball. So that
is the that's essentially the secret to running.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Okay, So now we now have AI and everybody has
noticed the difference. You know, now instead of seeing a
bunch of websites, you now see something that looks like
check GPT, perplexity, Gemini, one of those. So how do
(04:08):
you get ranked in these different AI platforms?
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Sure? So the reason that I think it'd be good
to talk about the reason that it's important. So being
put on an article about it was like late June
that based on their research, they found that sixty percent
of Google searchers and now zero click searches, which means
that people aren't clicking into your website. They're getting the
answer in that little snippet in AI, and they're also
(04:36):
getting the same thing from chet T or perplexities on
our rop whatever model that they're using. The Thankfully, if
you're optimized, well you've got ninety percent of the work done.
So if your site is relevant to the keyword phrase
that you're trying to rank, or your page is relevant
(04:58):
and you have high quality links that are also relevant
pointing to that page, the most of the heavy lifting
is done. Some of the things to rank we found
that help rank in the language models are adding advanced
schema to your pages and putting like fahs inside the schema.
(05:21):
The reason that FAQ's work really well is because chat
or you know GEM and I I'll just say chat now,
because there's so many different models are asking you a
question and they're looking for a short snippet of answer,
So we put faqes in the schema. The reason we
put it in the schema is because we've found that
the language models are accessing that faster, so they know
(05:44):
exactly where to look in the code. They don't have
to like rip through all the other code on the site,
So that is a big help. Another thing that is
really helpful our reviews. Having a keyword phrase interview or
having a location interview will help because these models are
(06:07):
looking for other sources of people talking about you to
build a holistic story about your company. Yeah, I all
know we all know it's really hard to get a review,
and it's even harder to get a keyword phrase that
you want in your review. However, most review platforms, Google
(06:30):
especially has the ability to respond to the views. To
the best of my knowledge, Google does not see the difference,
or Chat doesn't see the difference between a review and response. Instead,
they're waiting. So you can always say, Hey, Kevin, I'm
really glad you've had the best pepperoni pizza sliced Boston.
(06:54):
Thanks for coming. It sounds corny, but it works really well.
I always tell people if you want to be here,
do you want to make money? They usually air on
a fairly.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Okay, yeah, because I do have a testimonial page on Google.
But now that check GPT is in play, it's you've
got to do your s c O a whole lot differently,
and you've just explained that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
For sure. So what exactly is l M l l
M s c O. What is that?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
So l ms are the large language models. That's the
technology that built the these answer engines. So one of
my favorite quotes is that answer engines were the l
all ms were built by linguists stops. So it is
(07:50):
highly language based and two, I think and I mentioned
this before, that you know ranking in these language models.
What's really helpful is if you're getting them bite sized
piece of information so that they can access them easily,
and you know, put them in there, you know, put
them in their models when they're looking for questions and answers.
(08:13):
If you don't know how to put build schema, while
you can ask judge you to build schema, but if
you're intimidated by that ethic using your page for work,
really well, putting a little executive summary on the top
of your page, bite sized information is going to help
right in the like to models, they're going to access that.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes, now you already know a lot of businesses that
is walk walk walk.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Right to say the least.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So how does your company help people get their SEO?
Companies get their SEO right?
Speaker 5 (08:55):
So well, the first thing to determine, like if your
SEO is right is really simply do a search, like
what you do and where you do? Are you popping
up in Google for this? Are you popping up and
the language models for it? That's a you know, who's
got the best pizza in Boston? Are you ranking for that?
(09:16):
Or are you not? Ranking for that, so that you
want to start there. So then you have a place
that you can start to metic. You can't measure it,
you can. Once you know the keyword phrases that you
want to rank for, then you're then you start to
create relevance around that keyword phrase. So if I'm trying
to rank for peanut butter and jelly sandwich, I need
(09:37):
to have a page on my site that's all about
the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And what helps that
are pages. So you want to have content that is complete,
a complete story about the peanut butter and jelly sandwich,
then it really helps if you have pages that will
that will support that. So a page about peanut butter,
(09:58):
page about bread, page about jel with the jelly page
of the page about STARWB. Yeah, and and you link
those together. That's exactly how Wikipedia ricts for every Now
they're building a complete story. Like the Wikipedia basketball page
has a link to it's probably Michael Jordan and Lebron James.
And then you click on Michael Jordan page and it
(10:19):
will say here's the mayor of you know, here's the
talent that he grew up and you click that page
and say here's the current mayor of the town that
he broke right, So it's it's creating that story that
goes and supports they ultimately the it gives you the
ultimate story in the.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Basketball Okay, okay, Well that was definitely simple, simplified.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So how did Green Banana become the se OH agency
platform that's recommended?
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Well? And so we we started doing were doing SEO
just like everybody was doing. When when I started our agency,
we were building websites, we were doing Google ads, we
were doing a little bit of SEO. I got super obsessed,
you know, fifteen years ago with SEGO and I had
to figure out how to how to get it to rank.
(11:17):
We came up with the pay for performance model because
I was in a meeting, uh, this boardroom meeting with
people that we had been doing SEO for. I had
spent all night and they didn't sleep all night. I
think it's beautiful. I thought was a beautiful presentation together,
you know, all these copies of it, and the meeting
and the CEO and said what are you paying for again? Oh?
(11:41):
Oh my god. They didn't even read my presentation. So
I was like, you know what, how about this. If
I rank you on page one for these keyword phrases,
pay me. If I don't rank you, don't pay me.
But I've never done I'm not writing anyone like great,
let's do it. So that's you know that that kind
of started the you know, the whole thing is it
(12:03):
took the the mystery out of SEO, so we still
have to do proper SEO to get things to rank.
We don't guarantee you we can get you on page one.
We just guarantee that if we got you ranked, you
pay us what we negotiate forehand. If we don't rank,
you don't pay us. If someone says, hey, Kevin, we
need to get ranked, you know for tennis sneaker on
(12:27):
you know, by the end of the week, and like great,
we have a Google Adworks program. I can get you
on page good to that right away. So you know
that's you know that, that's kind of how we structure.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh okay, okay, yeah, because most people don't read the proposals,
you know that, And just by you saying that one
little phrase, yeah, it's fine, Okay, that's sound good to me.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Yeah, And it's hard to think like unless you're in
you know, unless you're living in it. When an se
O person is talking to you about late smantic indexing
or funnel pages or advanced schema or market language or
link stacking, you have no idea. They can just make
this stuff up, like I know it's important. But then
(13:17):
but then a lot of seos will say which ones
are you going to pick? You're you're left to decide
do I do link building or the schema thing? Right,
which forces you to be an expert in those areas.
But rather than have to worry about it, you just say,
all right, I'm going to go with the people that
are going to get me ranked.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, because mode ninety percent of those companies don't understand SEO,
and now that has changed, they really don't understand it.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
It's changing, it's changing every every minute.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yeah, that's that.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Is for sure, Because like you, I was really getting
into the SEO thing.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
On my website, and now that AI.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Is sort of in control, you might as well say,
you know, I've got to rethink.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
I've got to re educate myself because of that.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So, and most companies they just don't have the time,
or because I have a computer background, that kind of
puts me in a special place, that's right.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. A lot of people don't have
the time, so you bring in an expert. I mean, like,
we don't change our own we can change our if
we want to do.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Absolutely, And even with the skill sets I have, you know,
after you find myself up till two o'clock in the
morning reading and doing you know what I'm saying, yeahsion
about Yeah, that's important because I look at the web
site as my store and how most people should be
(15:05):
looking at it, and you want your store to be found.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, it's just that simple.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So let's talk a little bit first. How do companies
connect with you to get the support?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Let's go there first.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
So I mean they can go to Green Bananda se
O or they can if you Google I just met Kevin.
I rank page one, number one for that. I do
not if you say to chat I just met Kevin,
they're gonna say who cares? Right, So it's a different sort.
But the bullying search, I just met Kevin, we ranked
page one for that. That'll take you.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Okay, okay, good, good, good good.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So now pay for performance SEO in the AI era?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
What is it? How does it work?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
That's a great question.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
So it it does not work with AI just putting
it out there because it's very hard to see what
you're seeing on your computer.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
As a result, in Chat, as I am, they're not
sharing that data. We do have data that says how
many times you're mentioned, but it is very disparate. So
we have different tools that will say you're mentioned in this,
But with traditional payper performance SEO, you say best pizza
in Boston, if you're on page one, you're paying for that.
(16:34):
I can't see if you're using Chat, John I claude perplexity,
so on are rock and you're saying where do I
find the best pizza in Boston? And I can't see
your rankings. I can see if you're being mentioned in it,
but not your rank. So the AI portion of it,
it's it's next to impossible to do page one. You
don't pay because there is no page.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Okay, so that's a little bit of a pickle, right, Yeah, okay.
I was wondering about that. When I saw that, I
was like, how does that even work?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
If it even does work?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Yeah, and those so, while there are some great tools
that do tell you how many times you're being cited
or mentioned in these different models. The the one way
to figure out if people are coming to your site
is Google Analytics or GA four will tell you if
(17:29):
someone clicked on a link from chat and went to
your site. But if you go back to the beginning
of this discussion, sixty percent of searches of zero click,
so people are getting that answer. It's just forty percent
of the people might be clicking on something that got
mentioned in chat and coming. It's very powerful to show
the other tool that shows our clients, Hey, here's somebody
(17:51):
clicks you got from chats you need t and that's
super cool. But it's it's hard to say I got
mentioned in chat someone remember the name of the company,
went to the site directly or called it.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Everything is that's just so much more difficult now in.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
The advancements and AI and things rapidly moving, it's probably
you know, in two months, three months.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, it's just like it's a whole new language.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Just like.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I mean, I took like the programming language languages back
in the day.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
This is pretty much the same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
So and it's and and and it's always evolving.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
It is.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
It's like it's not slowing down once you get one
one thing down, it's like something else has arrived.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
It is amazing things that are changing.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes, it is definitely keeps you on your toes.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Okay, so.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
All right, so.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Let's talk a little bit about training AI. I know
you kind of alluded to some things that need to
be done, but can.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
We dig a little bit deeper in.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
What's the most important signals or assets to focus on
when you're trying to train AI.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
So too, if you're training your AI, so I use
chat GPT, if you're using something like John and I,
I think they're really comparable, But you want to start
by picking the model I think that you should be using.
(19:42):
I think it's it's not bad to go back and forth,
but I spent most of my time on chat GPT.
If you're if you're doing that and you're constantly giving
it feedback, you're training that model to do it. If
you use something like if you upgrade it to like
JATGBT plus, they have an agentic model and it's it's
(20:07):
called pulse right, and so you can basically take an
agent and you can connect it to your connected to
your Google Google Docs, you can connect it to your calendar,
you can connect it to your email and then you
can say, hey, how many more meetings do I have
come in next week? Or what should I be paying
(20:29):
attention to this week? So you can and then say,
you know, I don't care about I don't care about this.
Stop sending me stuff about that topic in November. So
that's how you're training. It is basically educating on a
consistent basis. The model just starts to adapt to what
you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, So when you're doing this training, how secure is
your information?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
That's a great question. So chat gotten a little while
back because they were posting everything publicly and then and
then they then they pulled it back in. But I
I think personally, if you're typing it into your phone,
(21:18):
assume that other people are.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
That's my thought exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Even if they say it's not going to happen, it's
going to happen.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Right. We all know that. You know, if you have
the Facebook app on your phone and you keep talking
about mattresses, you're going to see mattresses type something, right?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You so right?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Because I mean I could be searching for something and
then go to my email and some some the same
thing I was searching on saw the pops up.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And it took me a minute because every.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Time I would go to my Gmail count all these
ads was popping up.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So I finally figured out how to make that stop.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah, behavioral advertising, Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So they paying attention to everything you talking about online.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
You know what you're looking for?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What you're searching for is ISLD.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
You like to know what your friends like?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yes, exactly, It's incredible everything. Wow, this has been amazing.
So again, how do companies work with you?
Speaker 5 (22:34):
You just go to the agreement website and you know
we have a team of people here that that we well,
we do se O. We run paid media programmatic. You
know those annoying Facebook ads that we talked about, We
do those for clients. I like to say that we're
platform agnostics, so we're not trying to keep someone on
the specific platform. Our jobs to help our clients return
(22:58):
money on their outside. Our successes is their success. So
you just go to bring.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Someone yes, yes, yes, so definitely ladies and gentlemen, you
definitely want to do that because SEO has gotten way
more complicated than.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
It needs to be now and we all need help
with that. Because if you have a.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Website, you want to be seen, and there's hundreds and
thousands of websites out there, and you don't want to
be a best kept secret.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
But sure?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
So if a business owner listening right now, what's the
one thing they should do this week to improve their
visibility in an AI driven search?
Speaker 5 (23:49):
So well, I would say so two things. So number one,
if you're not using it and AI do it, it's
not going to them away. And you don't even have
to use it for your business. Use it like use
chatci GPT personality to ask it for recipes, or take
a picture of your house and say, hey, change my
house to this color, and just start having fun with it,
(24:12):
and it will start. You'll really start appreciating what these
models can do, and then you'll start to make connections
on you know what, here's a repetitive fak that I'm
doing every day. Maybe I could get chat to do
this for me. If you want to rank for it,
you know, get reviews. Reviews are really important. Uh, And
(24:33):
you know the simplest thing that you can do is
add FAQs to your site like that irrelevant? So remember
my peanut butter and chelie analogy. I take a page
just relevant to a specific keyword race reading an FAQ
that is relevant to that, and where can you get
a good faq?
Speaker 7 (24:52):
A I can write it for you, Okay, Yes, I
love AI anytime them I need to sit down and
write something, it goes straight to AI and then what
I do edit it and make it my voice.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah. And I think that's a really important thing to
mention too, is if you listen to a lot all
the you know, the AI companies it Google is an
entire like learning section on this is they talk about
the human and the loop, so there really needs to
be a human touch. So you know, you know that
you're not taking something Chat and just blindly cutting and
(25:26):
pasting and sticking it out right, that's not your voice here.
You're using AI to just make it easier for me,
and then you're going to interject your voice to do
it and make sure that what Chat saying is actually accurate.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yes, absolutely, because a lot of people I get reviews
all the time, right, And at first I was going
to try to use AI to help me out with that,
but it was horrible because it wasn't my voice. Everybody
that I interview is different, right, I felt a different
(25:59):
way about person, so I had to quickly scrap that
and just sit there and type it out myself.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, but that's personal, that's that's a human touch, and
I think I don't think that's going to go I think.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I don't think so either. There's nothing like that human interaction.
And what I'm noticing like a lot of the like
for example, the pizza companies like Domino's, all of them,
they're using AI to answer the phones. Now horrible, horrible
and more horrible experience.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Yeah, I understand why they're doing that. I don't love
that at all.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
No, And that's the thing, you know, you have to
pay attention to your customers. To me, they rule as
if they don't like it, then you have let it go, right,
It's just as simple. But they still pushing it because
every time AI calls my house, they get mister click
(27:11):
every time.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Yeah. Yeah, figure it out, right, Yeah, the figure.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It out because I am not talking to a machine.
I'm just not doing it.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
But anyway, it has been a fabulous conversation with you.
Thank you, Yes, indeed, and again, how do my listeners
and viewers connect with you?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
Dot Com or Google? Like just m kevin?
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yes, are you on LinkedIn by any chance. Okay, good,
because I swear I like to connect. Yeah, so I
will definitely connect with you on LinkedIn because I'm definitely
gonna have some more questions because I'm still working on
the se o AI era.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Happy to help. This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, so thank you so much. An audience, thank you
as well. We appreciate you too. Thank you to our
guests and you our values audience.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Let's stop you by. We truly appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Many blessings to you and yours.
Welcome to Just Minded My Business Media, LLC, where you
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Speaker 1 (01:26):
Welcome to Just Fonding my Business Media. I'm happy that
you joined us today. I am so excited to bring
to you this day. Kevin Rory, who is the CEO
and co founder of Green Banana SEO, which is a
digital marketing agency born from a radical idea of performance
(01:49):
based SEO that guarantees page one Google ranking or clients
don't pay.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Wow, that's a big claim.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Man. With over twenty years of experience across various industries
such as finance, biotech, retail, and manufacturing, Kevin has a
proven track record of helping companies grow, improve custom experience,
and boost profits through effective marketing strategies. Welcome, Welcome, Kevin.
Speaker 5 (02:25):
Thank you for having me and thank you for.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Taking time out because this is always, you know, the
top number one issue with people really don't understand SEO.
That's pretty much the real issue. So can we just
talk about it and define it for folks?
Speaker 5 (02:47):
Sure, I'm happy to help. So pre AIO was about
getting your site ranking on page one in a you
know Google or thing. It's primarily Google, you know, that's
where ninety percent of the draffic was coming from. And
the secrets there ranking on page one. And actually it's
(03:09):
the same secret to ranking and AI is relevant. Google's
job is to return the most relevant page for the
keyword phrase that you're typing in. So if you google basketball,
Wikipedia is usually number one or number two, right next
to the NBA, and that page, that Wikipedia page is
(03:30):
relevant to the keyword phrase basketball and their own links
pointing to it that are relevant to basketball. So that
is the that's essentially the secret to running.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Okay, So now we now have AI and everybody has
noticed the difference. You know, now instead of seeing a
bunch of websites, you now see something that looks like
check GPT, perplexity, Gemini, one of those. So how do
(04:08):
you get ranked in these different AI platforms?
Speaker 5 (04:13):
Sure? So the reason that I think it'd be good
to talk about the reason that it's important. So being
put on an article about it was like late June
that based on their research, they found that sixty percent
of Google searchers and now zero click searches, which means
that people aren't clicking into your website. They're getting the
answer in that little snippet in AI, and they're also
(04:36):
getting the same thing from chet T or perplexities on
our rop whatever model that they're using. The Thankfully, if
you're optimized, well you've got ninety percent of the work done.
So if your site is relevant to the keyword phrase
that you're trying to rank, or your page is relevant
(04:58):
and you have high quality links that are also relevant
pointing to that page, the most of the heavy lifting
is done. Some of the things to rank we found
that help rank in the language models are adding advanced
schema to your pages and putting like fahs inside the schema.
(05:21):
The reason that FAQ's work really well is because chat
or you know GEM and I I'll just say chat now,
because there's so many different models are asking you a
question and they're looking for a short snippet of answer,
So we put faqes in the schema. The reason we
put it in the schema is because we've found that
the language models are accessing that faster, so they know
(05:44):
exactly where to look in the code. They don't have
to like rip through all the other code on the site,
So that is a big help. Another thing that is
really helpful our reviews. Having a keyword phrase interview or
having a location interview will help because these models are
(06:07):
looking for other sources of people talking about you to
build a holistic story about your company. Yeah, I all
know we all know it's really hard to get a review,
and it's even harder to get a keyword phrase that
you want in your review. However, most review platforms, Google
(06:30):
especially has the ability to respond to the views. To
the best of my knowledge, Google does not see the difference,
or Chat doesn't see the difference between a review and response. Instead,
they're waiting. So you can always say, Hey, Kevin, I'm
really glad you've had the best pepperoni pizza sliced Boston.
(06:54):
Thanks for coming. It sounds corny, but it works really well.
I always tell people if you want to be here,
do you want to make money? They usually air on
a fairly.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Okay, yeah, because I do have a testimonial page on Google.
But now that check GPT is in play, it's you've
got to do your s c O a whole lot differently,
and you've just explained that.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
For sure. So what exactly is l M l l
M s c O. What is that?
Speaker 5 (07:30):
So l ms are the large language models. That's the
technology that built the these answer engines. So one of
my favorite quotes is that answer engines were the l
all ms were built by linguists stops. So it is
(07:50):
highly language based and two, I think and I mentioned
this before, that you know ranking in these language models.
What's really helpful is if you're getting them bite sized
piece of information so that they can access them easily,
and you know, put them in there, you know, put
them in their models when they're looking for questions and answers.
(08:13):
If you don't know how to put build schema, while
you can ask judge you to build schema, but if
you're intimidated by that ethic using your page for work,
really well, putting a little executive summary on the top
of your page, bite sized information is going to help
right in the like to models, they're going to access that.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes, now you already know a lot of businesses that
is walk walk walk.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Right to say the least.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So how does your company help people get their SEO?
Companies get their SEO right?
Speaker 5 (08:55):
So well, the first thing to determine, like if your
SEO is right is really simply do a search, like
what you do and where you do? Are you popping
up in Google for this? Are you popping up and
the language models for it? That's a you know, who's
got the best pizza in Boston? Are you ranking for that?
(09:16):
Or are you not? Ranking for that, so that you
want to start there. So then you have a place
that you can start to metic. You can't measure it,
you can. Once you know the keyword phrases that you
want to rank for, then you're then you start to
create relevance around that keyword phrase. So if I'm trying
to rank for peanut butter and jelly sandwich, I need
(09:37):
to have a page on my site that's all about
the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And what helps that
are pages. So you want to have content that is complete,
a complete story about the peanut butter and jelly sandwich,
then it really helps if you have pages that will
that will support that. So a page about peanut butter,
(09:58):
page about bread, page about jel with the jelly page
of the page about STARWB. Yeah, and and you link
those together. That's exactly how Wikipedia ricts for every Now
they're building a complete story. Like the Wikipedia basketball page
has a link to it's probably Michael Jordan and Lebron James.
And then you click on Michael Jordan page and it
(10:19):
will say here's the mayor of you know, here's the
talent that he grew up and you click that page
and say here's the current mayor of the town that
he broke right, So it's it's creating that story that
goes and supports they ultimately the it gives you the
ultimate story in the.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Basketball Okay, okay, Well that was definitely simple, simplified.
Speaker 5 (10:41):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
So how did Green Banana become the se OH agency
platform that's recommended?
Speaker 5 (10:54):
Well? And so we we started doing were doing SEO
just like everybody was doing. When when I started our agency,
we were building websites, we were doing Google ads, we
were doing a little bit of SEO. I got super obsessed,
you know, fifteen years ago with SEGO and I had
to figure out how to how to get it to rank.
(11:17):
We came up with the pay for performance model because
I was in a meeting, uh, this boardroom meeting with
people that we had been doing SEO for. I had
spent all night and they didn't sleep all night. I
think it's beautiful. I thought was a beautiful presentation together,
you know, all these copies of it, and the meeting
and the CEO and said what are you paying for again? Oh?
(11:41):
Oh my god. They didn't even read my presentation. So
I was like, you know what, how about this. If
I rank you on page one for these keyword phrases,
pay me. If I don't rank you, don't pay me.
But I've never done I'm not writing anyone like great,
let's do it. So that's you know that that kind
of started the you know, the whole thing is it
(12:03):
took the the mystery out of SEO, so we still
have to do proper SEO to get things to rank.
We don't guarantee you we can get you on page one.
We just guarantee that if we got you ranked, you
pay us what we negotiate forehand. If we don't rank,
you don't pay us. If someone says, hey, Kevin, we
need to get ranked, you know for tennis sneaker on
(12:27):
you know, by the end of the week, and like great,
we have a Google Adworks program. I can get you
on page good to that right away. So you know
that's you know that, that's kind of how we structure.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Oh okay, okay, yeah, because most people don't read the proposals,
you know that, And just by you saying that one
little phrase, yeah, it's fine, Okay, that's sound good to me.
Speaker 5 (12:54):
Yeah, And it's hard to think like unless you're in
you know, unless you're living in it. When an se
O person is talking to you about late smantic indexing
or funnel pages or advanced schema or market language or
link stacking, you have no idea. They can just make
this stuff up, like I know it's important. But then
(13:17):
but then a lot of seos will say which ones
are you going to pick? You're you're left to decide
do I do link building or the schema thing? Right,
which forces you to be an expert in those areas.
But rather than have to worry about it, you just say,
all right, I'm going to go with the people that
are going to get me ranked.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah, because mode ninety percent of those companies don't understand SEO,
and now that has changed, they really don't understand it.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
It's changing, it's changing every every minute.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Yeah, that's that.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Is for sure, Because like you, I was really getting
into the SEO thing.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
On my website, and now that AI.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Is sort of in control, you might as well say,
you know, I've got to rethink.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
I've got to re educate myself because of that.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
So, and most companies they just don't have the time,
or because I have a computer background, that kind of
puts me in a special place, that's right.
Speaker 5 (14:32):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. A lot of people don't have
the time, so you bring in an expert. I mean, like,
we don't change our own we can change our if
we want to do.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Absolutely, And even with the skill sets I have, you know,
after you find myself up till two o'clock in the
morning reading and doing you know what I'm saying, yeahsion
about Yeah, that's important because I look at the web
site as my store and how most people should be
(15:05):
looking at it, and you want your store to be found.
Speaker 4 (15:10):
Yeah, it's just that simple.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So let's talk a little bit first. How do companies
connect with you to get the support?
Speaker 4 (15:20):
Let's go there first.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
So I mean they can go to Green Bananda se
O or they can if you Google I just met Kevin.
I rank page one, number one for that. I do
not if you say to chat I just met Kevin,
they're gonna say who cares? Right, So it's a different sort.
But the bullying search, I just met Kevin, we ranked
page one for that. That'll take you.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Okay, okay, good, good, good good.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
So now pay for performance SEO in the AI era?
Speaker 4 (15:53):
What is it? How does it work?
Speaker 5 (15:57):
That's a great question.
Speaker 6 (15:58):
So it it does not work with AI just putting
it out there because it's very hard to see what
you're seeing on your computer.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
As a result, in Chat, as I am, they're not
sharing that data. We do have data that says how
many times you're mentioned, but it is very disparate. So
we have different tools that will say you're mentioned in this,
But with traditional payper performance SEO, you say best pizza
in Boston, if you're on page one, you're paying for that.
(16:34):
I can't see if you're using Chat, John I claude perplexity,
so on are rock and you're saying where do I
find the best pizza in Boston? And I can't see
your rankings. I can see if you're being mentioned in it,
but not your rank. So the AI portion of it,
it's it's next to impossible to do page one. You
don't pay because there is no page.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Okay, so that's a little bit of a pickle, right, Yeah, okay.
I was wondering about that. When I saw that, I
was like, how does that even work?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
If it even does work?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Yeah, and those so, while there are some great tools
that do tell you how many times you're being cited
or mentioned in these different models. The the one way
to figure out if people are coming to your site
is Google Analytics or GA four will tell you if
(17:29):
someone clicked on a link from chat and went to
your site. But if you go back to the beginning
of this discussion, sixty percent of searches of zero click,
so people are getting that answer. It's just forty percent
of the people might be clicking on something that got
mentioned in chat and coming. It's very powerful to show
the other tool that shows our clients, Hey, here's somebody
(17:51):
clicks you got from chats you need t and that's
super cool. But it's it's hard to say I got
mentioned in chat someone remember the name of the company,
went to the site directly or called it.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Everything is that's just so much more difficult now in.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
The advancements and AI and things rapidly moving, it's probably
you know, in two months, three months.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, it's just like it's a whole new language.
Speaker 5 (18:21):
Just like.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I mean, I took like the programming language languages back
in the day.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
This is pretty much the same thing.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
So and it's and and and it's always evolving.
Speaker 5 (18:37):
It is.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
It's like it's not slowing down once you get one
one thing down, it's like something else has arrived.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
It is amazing things that are changing.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes, it is definitely keeps you on your toes.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Okay, so.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
All right, so.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Let's talk a little bit about training AI. I know
you kind of alluded to some things that need to
be done, but can.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
We dig a little bit deeper in.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
What's the most important signals or assets to focus on
when you're trying to train AI.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
So too, if you're training your AI, so I use
chat GPT, if you're using something like John and I,
I think they're really comparable, But you want to start
by picking the model I think that you should be using.
(19:42):
I think it's it's not bad to go back and forth,
but I spent most of my time on chat GPT.
If you're if you're doing that and you're constantly giving
it feedback, you're training that model to do it. If
you use something like if you upgrade it to like
JATGBT plus, they have an agentic model and it's it's
(20:07):
called pulse right, and so you can basically take an
agent and you can connect it to your connected to
your Google Google Docs, you can connect it to your calendar,
you can connect it to your email and then you
can say, hey, how many more meetings do I have
come in next week? Or what should I be paying
(20:29):
attention to this week? So you can and then say,
you know, I don't care about I don't care about this.
Stop sending me stuff about that topic in November. So
that's how you're training. It is basically educating on a
consistent basis. The model just starts to adapt to what
you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Okay, So when you're doing this training, how secure is
your information?
Speaker 5 (20:56):
That's a great question. So chat gotten a little while
back because they were posting everything publicly and then and
then they then they pulled it back in. But I
I think personally, if you're typing it into your phone,
(21:18):
assume that other people are.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
That's my thought exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Even if they say it's not going to happen, it's
going to happen.
Speaker 5 (21:28):
Right. We all know that. You know, if you have
the Facebook app on your phone and you keep talking
about mattresses, you're going to see mattresses type something, right?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
You so right?
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Because I mean I could be searching for something and
then go to my email and some some the same
thing I was searching on saw the pops up.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And it took me a minute because every.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Time I would go to my Gmail count all these
ads was popping up.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It was horrible.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So I finally figured out how to make that stop.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah, behavioral advertising, Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
So they paying attention to everything you talking about online.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
You know what you're looking for?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
What you're searching for is ISLD.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
You like to know what your friends like?
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yes, exactly, It's incredible everything. Wow, this has been amazing.
So again, how do companies work with you?
Speaker 5 (22:34):
You just go to the agreement website and you know
we have a team of people here that that we well,
we do se O. We run paid media programmatic. You
know those annoying Facebook ads that we talked about, We
do those for clients. I like to say that we're
platform agnostics, so we're not trying to keep someone on
the specific platform. Our jobs to help our clients return
(22:58):
money on their outside. Our successes is their success. So
you just go to bring.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Someone yes, yes, yes, so definitely ladies and gentlemen, you
definitely want to do that because SEO has gotten way
more complicated than.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
It needs to be now and we all need help
with that. Because if you have a.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Website, you want to be seen, and there's hundreds and
thousands of websites out there, and you don't want to
be a best kept secret.
Speaker 5 (23:35):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
But sure?
Speaker 1 (23:37):
So if a business owner listening right now, what's the
one thing they should do this week to improve their
visibility in an AI driven search?
Speaker 5 (23:49):
So well, I would say so two things. So number one,
if you're not using it and AI do it, it's
not going to them away. And you don't even have
to use it for your business. Use it like use
chatci GPT personality to ask it for recipes, or take
a picture of your house and say, hey, change my
house to this color, and just start having fun with it,
(24:12):
and it will start. You'll really start appreciating what these
models can do, and then you'll start to make connections
on you know what, here's a repetitive fak that I'm
doing every day. Maybe I could get chat to do
this for me. If you want to rank for it,
you know, get reviews. Reviews are really important. Uh, And
(24:33):
you know the simplest thing that you can do is
add FAQs to your site like that irrelevant? So remember
my peanut butter and chelie analogy. I take a page
just relevant to a specific keyword race reading an FAQ
that is relevant to that, and where can you get
a good faq?
Speaker 7 (24:52):
A I can write it for you, Okay, Yes, I
love AI anytime them I need to sit down and
write something, it goes straight to AI and then what
I do edit it and make it my voice.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yeah. And I think that's a really important thing to
mention too, is if you listen to a lot all
the you know, the AI companies it Google is an
entire like learning section on this is they talk about
the human and the loop, so there really needs to
be a human touch. So you know, you know that
you're not taking something Chat and just blindly cutting and
(25:26):
pasting and sticking it out right, that's not your voice here.
You're using AI to just make it easier for me,
and then you're going to interject your voice to do
it and make sure that what Chat saying is actually accurate.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yes, absolutely, because a lot of people I get reviews
all the time, right, And at first I was going
to try to use AI to help me out with that,
but it was horrible because it wasn't my voice. Everybody
that I interview is different, right, I felt a different
(25:59):
way about person, so I had to quickly scrap that
and just sit there and type it out myself.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, but that's personal, that's that's a human touch, and
I think I don't think that's going to go I think.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I don't think so either. There's nothing like that human interaction.
And what I'm noticing like a lot of the like
for example, the pizza companies like Domino's, all of them,
they're using AI to answer the phones. Now horrible, horrible
and more horrible experience.
Speaker 5 (26:40):
Yeah, I understand why they're doing that. I don't love
that at all.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
No, And that's the thing, you know, you have to
pay attention to your customers. To me, they rule as
if they don't like it, then you have let it go, right,
It's just as simple. But they still pushing it because
every time AI calls my house, they get mister click
(27:11):
every time.
Speaker 5 (27:12):
Yeah. Yeah, figure it out, right, Yeah, the figure.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
It out because I am not talking to a machine.
I'm just not doing it.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
But anyway, it has been a fabulous conversation with you.
Thank you, Yes, indeed, and again, how do my listeners
and viewers connect with you?
Speaker 5 (27:36):
Dot Com or Google? Like just m kevin?
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yes, are you on LinkedIn by any chance. Okay, good,
because I swear I like to connect. Yeah, so I
will definitely connect with you on LinkedIn because I'm definitely
gonna have some more questions because I'm still working on
the se o AI era.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Happy to help. This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, so thank you so much. An audience, thank you
as well. We appreciate you too. Thank you to our
guests and you our values audience.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Let's stop you by. We truly appreciate you.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Many blessings to you and yours.
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