Discusses: Dr. Jessie Vallejo and Music Academia Pt.2

Part 2 of our interview with Dr. Jessie Vallejo.

In this episode, Adam, Leandro, and Kurt interview Dr. Jessie Vallejo, an Associate Professor of Ethnomusicology and Director of Mariachi Ensembles at Cal Poly Pomona. We discuss careers in music; accessibility of textbooks; Dr. Vallejo's instrument building course; and what performing during the pandemic. We read viewer comments; Adam talks about living in Vietnam; and the famous restaurant Casa Bonita. Dr. Vallejo talks about what she is currently listening to, relaxing videogames and stress reducers, and we talk about why Kurt can't give legal advice on anythng.

Also check out https://www.worldmusictextbook.org/ for an online and open resource for teaching and learning ethnomusicology and musicology.

Be sure to like and subscribe, and check out our podcast through our link below.

https://justonesong.start.page/

Music:
"One More Sunset" Written and Performed by: Adam Orozco and Kurt Boehmke

Cover Photo by Jaw Lee
Logo by Wolfgang Alexander
Edited by Elena Ramirez

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Part two of our interview with doctorJesse Vayo and the Lord is I think
but the yeah, yeah, SoI was trying to I was thinking about
this, What is there anything likeor a possibility of a like a librarian

(00:28):
of music kind of degree that wouldbe able to be set up. I
think that would be even more.It would be more how do I say?
It brings more different music from eachregion and each culture, and these
people could basically study country by countryinstead of like the global because I remember

(00:50):
having the World History class of music, and you get like a week of
Indian music, you get a weekof African music, you get a week
of the entirety of Asia, andit's like, oh, you have so
many different cultures and so many differenttypes of people there, and you can't
get a good sense of it withina week or in a day. And

(01:15):
we have to buy a book that'swhat like twenty seven chapters long, read
the whole thing, and then getan idea that people existed somewhere because of
their music, which I never liked. I don't assign textbooks unless we use
one hundred percent of them, youknow, which we did in World of

(01:37):
Music, right, And then Iguess like we have some type of open
access thing where like if students signup, they get like a package.
So like I put a book onthere that I want to use in a
couple of weeks. But like Itold the students, if you're not part
of that package, like don't bothergetting it because I do like reading groups
or whatever. But yeah, textbooksare another thing that's somebody's tea gene something

(02:00):
that and they don't have some ofthe experience to kind of like make it
easy to set up their class.Like I get why people use textbooks,
but yeah, I'm not a I'mnot a fan. I'm a co editor
of this website called World Music Textbookdot org, and we're basically using grant
money to pay people to write anopen access textbook that can be far more

(02:22):
interactive. It's a little slow becauseit took cal Poly two years and two
months to cut the payments for thefirst two publications, so there have been
a lot of like staffing issues inthe behind the scenes offices and lack of
training. Is that a plug?Can we can you give us that website

(02:44):
and that link so you can postit on our socials. Yeah, music
and this is something where like,you know, people don't have to have
a doctorate to submit something. Youknow, somebody who wants to submit like
a you know what, what couldan introductory textbook like article two thousand words
look like that could be interactive evenfor mis you know, after you've been

(03:07):
out in the field and thinking aboutlike the skills you still use, even
if your jobs have kind of likeshifted, right, that's amazing something like
that. But I feel like Ididn't answer your initial question, Adam,
But now I'm trying to remember whatit was, and I can't remember a
library of like a music librarian typeof degree or something like that available our

(03:31):
new degree. So after twenty eighteenwe switched the semesters. We have the
BA in General Studies, and Ithink some people in the department we tried
to agree that we wouldn't do this, but some people treat a BA in
General Studies for music as like themusic light degree. For me, it's

(03:52):
like you take that degree because youwant to take a lot of other electives
that round out what you want todo. Somebody who wants to do as
musicology, somebody like might take anthropologyclasses or ethnic studies classes like additional ones
in there because they have more electiveunits. Somebody who really wants to do

(04:12):
music therapy might take like kinesiology andmore science. So I feel like that
for a master's it makes sense.And so usually if you get your degree
in library science, you need amaster's. So I think having an undergrad
program that's like general enough where somebodycan come in, go through the few

(04:33):
years, figure out what they wantto do, and have the skill set
where they can apply to that mastersis really what I think we're doing the
best. What I want to saythat our department could be stronger at and
I think makes more sense for howthe job markets shift because narrowing it too

(04:54):
much at the undergraduate level can makeit difficult to kind of deal with the
changes in time. Like you know, the mis degree, graduates might be
doing something very different even ten yearsfrom now, So I think like leaving
it lebar abroad, it can behelpful. Sorry, my bachelor's and banjo

(05:15):
making wasn't was a little too specific. Seeing you make a single banjo.
He started on the strings, butnever never finish the actual body. And
now I have my instrument building class, but it took me ever do that
yeah, it might Organs about that. Wait, hold on, I need
to address it. We do havea chat that I'm monitoring, sure,

(05:35):
because I do want to touch onthe instrument building that's in my notes.
But Brandon Wigan says the music industryis also changing as fast as the Internet
changes. How can universities even tryto keep up? I'm pretty sure that
might be like a rhetorical question,but he says, like it's literally changed
significantly since I was even in school. So you were our professor when we

(05:57):
were in school, and you're stillan instructor. How have you seen the
Internet change how things are done inthat time? Thank you? Definitely,
with like the communication or like theways that you know with zoom, you
know, just the different possibilities ofI guess, well, I'm not recording

(06:18):
or doing a lot of the productionside very often, so I'm I feel
a little bit like I'm not thebest person to ask about that, But
I think that there are all sortsof new programs. There's a lot of
like free programs that you know,what was it a harmony acapella that acapella
app, you know, and nowthat even feels stated, right, But

(06:39):
there are all these things that Ithink come out that you know, it
serves all of us to kind oftry to stay at least a little bit
up to date. But you geta lot of music faculty who are like,
they need to practice piano, theyneed you know, I need to
practice my violin more. I wishI practiced more. So it's it can
be a little bit difficult, Ithink. I think this is this is

(07:04):
where I feel like just making sureyou all have as strong of a foundation
in music and and actually you knowmusicianship music, music theory, performing in
some way you will have the understandingof music to apply that to whatever apps,
to whatever programs, because if youhave a good ear, like you

(07:25):
can make something sound the way youwant it with the tools that are developed
later on. Right, So thatthat would be my best answer to that.
But it's it's specific as you wouldn'tDiddy's Flavor camp go broad and uh

(07:50):
have you been reading the news?Did you say flavor camp? They just
got oj flavored soon? Okay,I think had another comment, right,
making instruments, Oh yeah, makinginstruments, thank you? So my my

(08:13):
music instrument class, yeah, thenews, but my music instrument building class.
That that's like one of the classesthat wasn't on the books. I
totally made up based on like whatI sort of took in grad school and
what I wish I could have takenas an undergrad. You know. It's

(08:35):
it's basically like I I walked studentsthrough, you know, from an e's
a musicological perspective of like concepts aboutinstruments, and we talk about everything from
sustainability to like issues with making instrumentsmore accessible for somebody who might have different
you know, needs, different impairments, different you know whatever. And so

(08:56):
there they have to make four instrumentsover the semester, and they do readings
and reflect on it. So Ihelp them with like the intellectual side.
I take them to places on campuswhere we can collaborate with the STEM side.
So we have the Student Idea Innovationlabs and the maker Space studio that's

(09:16):
new in the library or newish afew years ago, where students they have
the tools, they have laser cuttersand all sorts of things to make instruments.
And so they have to make likean a recycled instrument, which is
kind of like low stakes. It'slike see what you have laying around the
house turn it into an instrument.Then they have to do it. We

(09:39):
know theremin or like they can getfancier, like a lot of the STEM
majors. They could do stuff.You know, I don't have time to
learn. I can't take a classin like Raspberry Pie. And maybe one
day I will, but you knowI haven't yet. So I do the
light sensitive like ptudotherrem in but theycan. I give them directions where they
can follow, and like one studentmade a firman out of two old radio

(10:01):
sets, which is really cool.Cool, and then they have I tried
doing this other woodworking instrument this year, but then some students finished it.
I got to revamp how I wantto do that project. But there's this
thing called a Daxophone d A xO P H O n E, and

(10:22):
I really want to try to forcethem to do something with the woodcutters,
but there's a lot of training tothat. So I got to look this
up at Taxophone. All the recordingsare pretty cool and you can make there's
so many different pieces. It's interesting. Yeah, and then you play with
a bow yeah, no strings,put a picture in the chat. So

(10:48):
I realized what I have to dowith the class is like, I probably
have to make the clamps because wecouldn't. I just bought some clamps.
I tried to find like an easyway to do it, and so it
just sounds very screechy on like thedesks, so it didn't turn into like
the beautiful music we wanted to make. And then their final project is whatever

(11:09):
they'd like to do. So I'vehad students. Do you remember Jordan Rivera,
Yeah, he made a prototype ofan organ made out of cardboard and
a used bookshelf, and he wasalways a really bright kid that, yeah,

(11:30):
that's awesome. Wait, a prototypeout of a used bookshelf. He
had like a bookshelf, and hewas like cardboard. He was trying to
like work with materials and like recycledthings to find ways to make really expensive
instruments that he wanted to play moreaffordable and so. And then he also
like he wanted to work on likea hurdy gurdy and things like that.

(11:52):
So it's funny because I know ofat least two students, Jordan and one
other student who took that class,and now both of their mothers have told
me I've I've created monsters of likethey just collect all these instruments now,
and I basically like gave them awhole field of study that like validates their

(12:13):
like instrument collection, like yeah,I remember musical Willy Wonka. Yeah,
like Jordan would have just some ancientinstruments. It came on when they remember
he spent a week playing the crumbhorn, or like can we stop playing
the crumb horn? It's pretty amazingthough, like it's a cool instrument.

(12:35):
It's grating. But he I think, I wonder is he still He's not
there anymore? But like does hestill come and talk? I don't know.
I saw him not that long ago, and I know he was helping
in one workshop with one of theguest speakers, I had Curtis Barack,

(12:56):
who does harpsichords and hurdy Gurdy's indowntown Lake. But I'd have to see
high school has him on Facebook oranything like that. But yeah, he's
been around a little bit. Iknow we have to have like some type
of an alumni gathering and trying toget people to come back. Four more

(13:16):
years, ten years, I knowit goes by fast. I'm almost when
did I graduate graduate two thousand andsevens so I'm getting closer to twenty years,
which is scary from high from fromfrom college, from college. Yeah,
okay, I thought you were sayinghigh school. It is like I

(13:37):
am older than you. Then that'sbeen twenty one years, so there you
go. Thanks for the compliments onthe site. By the way, our
co editor Chris Ptolski, who actuallymakes his own banjos he and I know
him from Crane. We were ina string quartet together my first year.

(13:58):
But he he runs it on notionand I should know the other. But
it basically loads from the back end, so it loads everything. That's why
it's super quick. But he's reallygood at like coding and things like that.
And I might try to learn moreon my sabbatical. I keep trying
to learn during the semesters in summers, but I never have time. So

(14:22):
but he's great. He's wonderful.It's awesome. And is this kind of
like an open source article, likewhat's the summit down? Give me a
give me one sentence on like whatpurpose and what it is? We wanted
to make an open source digital likefree textbook that could be also appealing to

(14:45):
the general audience. So we alsodon't like how like in a textbook there's
like the one person who always writesabout Ecuador for example, right, there's
just one author who's work is listedin like three different world music texts books,
And so we wanted to make surethat it's more modular, so we
could have twenty articles on Gammalan becausethere's all sorts of different things to talk

(15:09):
about Gammalan. You know, wedon't want one definitive general article on anything.
We want. We want to makeit where people can like kind of
build their own course and build theirown textbook and find a way to like
write things in shorter chapters and havequestions and kind of link things. So
somebody could have a Latin American classusing this platform. Somebody could have like

(15:33):
looking at nationalism and then pick fromdifferent examples. But it's it's still newish,
and the payment system has been reallyslow, so I'm trying to work
through that because that's been I feellike eighty percent of my job has just
been tracking down payments and there haven'tbeen that many. So there are a

(15:54):
lot of people in offices who knowme like I'm notorious now because I'm trying
to get these people paid. Andthat's fine. It's a great resource.
It's a beautiful site. I can'twait to like jump into it. It's
really well like well thought out,well planned, very very well done.

(16:15):
That's that's awesome amongst the million otherthings that you're doing. Thanks well,
definitely, definitely. Christina and Chrishave been doing a ton of work on
the like what you see side forsure. They're handling a lot of the
stuff while I fight for the pavements. And it's just it's nice to get
involved in projects you really believe inand that you really value so and that

(16:36):
are fun. It seems like alot of the things that you advocate for
teach this is a perfect example.Your instrument making class is a perfect example.
Are things that you wish you wouldhave had when you were coming up?
Can you is it? Am Ioff on that or are do you
like? It's like a lot ofthe things that you are like instilling in

(16:59):
students. Is it seems like stuffthat you you know wasn't around, Like
I wasn't here, so I builtit? You know, yeah, I
think you know there are moments.I'm the type of person where like I'll
take notes, I have like littlefiles or like notebooks where like if I
have ideas, I'll write them down, and as I'm going through something,
if I hit a lot of roadblocksor if I have whatever inspiration, I

(17:23):
think like, oh, that wouldbe cool. And then if I get
it to a point where I'm Ihave the ability to do something, then
I think like, well why not? I mean, I know that there's
a certain level of you know,we all probably like we all basically identify
as millennials, right, but likewe all feel jaded that, like we
don't have a lot of influence overthings we would really like for, you

(17:47):
know, global politics, like Iwould love to have free health care here
and not be bombing civilians anywhere andsupporting peace missions everywhere. Like so you
know, obviously we don't all havecontrol over that, but we can put
our voices out there and try todo our best. But a lot of

(18:07):
the world is like our immediate surroundingsare run by the people who show up.
Who goes to city council meetings,who goes to you know, pick
up garbage in the park, whogoes to like a faculty meeting and says,
you know what, I'll write thatcurriculum, Like I'm probably the only
ethnic musicologist who wrote the performance levelJury structure for a program because we needed

(18:33):
one with Nazam So and I wantedto do it because I wanted to make
sure I rewrote the rules and Imade sure that Mariacci fit into it,
and that Mariacci is now a modelthat any world music and like any non
like European classical music could fit into. So if somebody came in after me
and taught Filipino music, they couldmodel it off of something very similar.

(18:57):
So I do think that a lotof times, if you want to make
the world a better place, evenif it's just your neighborhood, like you
roll up, your sleep, youshow up, and so that's sort of
what I've has been my approach wheneverI have just enough sleep or caffeine to
get me through. So it's away to get through like the kind of
like hellscape of like being bombarded ofreality, you know, like you we

(19:22):
only have control over the things thatare tactile within your reach, you know.
And I think it's just a goodway to like a good way to
live your life. But yeah,thank you, it's an important lesson,
and thank you for the reminder.Yeah, no problem. It's nice to
remind ourselves that there's plenty of beautifulthings in the world and in life that

(19:44):
you know, despite all the problems, like I don't know, it can
still be exciting to wake up andplan your day. And music is one
of those things and it gets youthrough a lot. So yes, got
me through a lot. That's nice, true, I do have to say,
like from performing with during the pandemic, you know, I almost went
in science. I kept thinking atthe beginning of the pandemic, like,

(20:10):
maybe I should have chosen a differentcareer. Maybe I could have made more
of a difference in the world ifI had pursued science. You know,
Bristol Meyers Squib was trying to likerecruit me into the sciences, Like I
had a lot of attention from sciencerecruiters all through high school, right,
and so I thought about it.But you know, then when I got

(20:32):
to when it got to be laterin the pandemic, there were times when
we would perform for people, andwhen the doctors couldn't save somebody, we
were performing at their funerals, andwhen people had nothing, all they had
was music and each other to connectwith their lost you know, lost loved
ones. When when you couldn't takea pill for grief. They had the

(20:59):
favorite song that they shared with somebodyto rehumanize each other, and you know,
that's what they turned to. Andso, you know, I had
kind of an existential crisis and duringthe really hard parts of the pandemic for
a bit. But after a while, I think it shared it showed me
and gave me stronger convictions that like, I'm glad I chose music. I

(21:21):
do think that, you know,the music degree is worth worth it to
have in every school, you know, just to give people the experience to
play music at the very least,even if not everybody is, you know,
paying their bills solely through music makinglater and so I feel like it's

(21:41):
it's been so much more meaningful tome to see how important the arts and
music are for people when when sciencecan't catch up fast enough, you know.
And so yeah, I feel likethat's that's been another lesson I learned
these few years and trying to remindmyself like there's beauty despite all of the
the trauma we feel like we faceon our phone or in person a no

(22:07):
no go leo, oh I'm gonnago. I'm gonna go so hard I
was I was just talking about thepandemic. Uh, And I guess I
didn't didn't think about it because Iwas working. It depends on the industry,
but like it really really affected howit kind of like turned academia on

(22:30):
its head, specifically for a musicdepartment for sure. How like how did
you navigate that? Because like thebig part of just music is just being
around other musicians and a teacher anda mentor. Like that's like you talking
about it just made me realize,like, oh wow, I didn't even

(22:51):
think of like how much of animpact that must have happened even to this
day. Probably still affects you guys. Yeah, I mean definitely has affected
us in terms of enrollment and interms of I think students having messaging when
they're choosing careers that oh, well, musicians were hit hard during the pandemic,
so I don't want to do that, right, And why were we

(23:14):
hit hard, right, gig economybecause of the ways that we don't have
basic so basic needs met in mostof the US. I mean, imagine
if we all had universal healthcare anduniversal even like retirement, like something a
little bit better than Social Security ora lot better than Social Security. I
think a lot of us would betalking about this very differently. But I

(23:37):
think a lot of students are scaredto go into a career that doesn't have
the government and doesn't have the stateor like government support in ways that other
fields do. And sadly, thebest supported fields are the ones that are
supporting making you know, bombs andmilitary weapons and things that you know,

(24:00):
it's hard, you know, Iknow a lot of our students go off
to work for many of those companies, and they make far more than me
and their first job. But Idon't know if I could feel okay with
my knowledge and my skills being usedto you know, destroy parts of the

(24:21):
world. And you know, I'mand I'm I would say, I'm like
more of a pacifist, like I'mI just I'm humanists, like I just
don't want any like war, Likewar is actually one of the worst polluters,
and like when we look at carbonemissions, when we look at a
lot of the issues we're having,when we look at the extractivism and the

(24:41):
you know, all the materials usedto make those weapons, Like what's destroying
the world really is war, andwe could do so much better with water
and everything if we fix those thingsand found ways to really provoke peace above
all. But anyways, sorry,I'm getting on tangents, but I feel

(25:03):
like the gideaback right, like themusic making. I mean, I had
just such a different experience a lotof Mariati's did, especially in LA compared
to other musicians. You know,I wasn't sleeping much. I was just
gigging on stop, and I wasteaching asynchronous classes. And you know,
I had quadrupled the number of gigsthat I normally do per year from January

(25:29):
to March twenty twenty one, afterthe biggest spikes in cases and deaths in
Los Angeles. I had a year'sworth of gigs and a year's worth of
funerals in those three months that areusually the slowest months. And I was
so burned out from playing, whereasall of my colleagues and all of the
students were like, I didn't getto play music with anybody. I felt

(25:52):
so alone, and I was likeoverwhelmed with being with people and witnessing their
grief and like, I mean,I've given talks at conferences and I gave
like a keynote lecture type of thingat University of New Mexico, and I
made everybody cry, and like Icry when I give those presentations because you
think about the songs like a andthings that you sing over and over again,

(26:17):
and you're like imagining all of thosefunerals you witnessed and you attended happening.
And you know, I lost peopleto COVID. Like Adrian lost people
to COVID. I also lost peopleand like loved ones who you know,
couldn't couldn't get a hospital bed forother serious cases because of COVID. And

(26:40):
you know, I know of neighborsof my family in Sacramento, they lost
twenty family members because of COVID,like all in one full swoop. Can
you imagine losing twenty of your familymembers and like a matter of months.
It's just devastating, right, Andso I feel like my experience witness seeing

(27:00):
and participating in all of that andexperiencing it was just so different from most
of the faculty who didn't know anybodywho died of COVID, you know,
And it was it was especially jarringwhen I would be like on faculty meetings
and zoom in my car in betweenfunerals, like on Tuesdays like at Rose
Hills or something and you know,sobbing and I would have the I would

(27:22):
just have everything muted. I wouldjust log on and check in and like
in case I needed to answer anything. But that was really difficult to hear
people like complaining about like, oh, I'm so upset my concert got canceled
and I'm sitting there thinking, likeI just played for like you know,
a hundred people who are breathing.You know, all these people who passed

(27:42):
away and wildly different experiences despite livingin the same area but being from different
demographics. That really taught you alot. That was the biggest thing I
think in the middle of that pandemicwas folks were like music was of them,
live concerts, live shows, peoplelike people were itching to be there's

(28:03):
to be in communion with other people. I mean, maybe not you because
you're playing like triple the amount ofgigs, but yeah, people miss that.
It was such a big deal.Speaking of gigging in Mariacci. I
just found out about this. Didyou hear about this? They call it
Mariacci gentrification. That's going on inlike Mazatlin, and there's like basically the

(28:30):
places are getting gentrified by like Americanexpats and people are complaining about like restaurants
that have been there for like fortyfifty years that have like mariachi bands and
they're trying, they're giving them likenoise complaints. That's some bullshit. It's
total bus Yeah, I'm so glad. I love watching the like the bands,
like the Sinoloa bands, especially likewalk Through and just play in the

(28:52):
streets or like screw it, likeyou know, go back to your country
then if you don't like it.I love that. It's the same rhetorics
like, oh, if you don'tlike it here, go back to your
country. It's like, like whatare you doing here? You know?
There's I was in last year andlike talking to I went on a fishing

(29:14):
charter and I was talking to acouple of the guys we were there that
were the captain and the skipper andcapitan and I don't know how you say
skipper in Spanish, but uh,first mate, I don't know. Yeah,
look up Gilligan's Island. Uh it'ssuch a it's such a weird.
Oh man, let's not make this. But did you I didn't watch a

(29:40):
lot of Gilligan's Island. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved day,
like me, that's the only thingI know. It's the lyrics are
amazing. Grace, you triggered mewith church song. Thank you. I'm
sorry, I'm just kidding. TheLord is here, I mean, then
he is is with us. Adamsuch a big part of the economies of

(30:07):
like really tourists. The areas likeare predicated on tourists, right, built
of tourists. But at the sametime they're also you have like people that
are like moving there and then changingthe culture and the landscape and like,
so it's such a weird thing becauselike some people make their livelihoods off of

(30:30):
like these fishing charters and running restaurants, but then also allowing that brings in
the the gentrification and the like Ican't afford to live in the neighborhood that,
yeah, four generations of my familylived in, you know. M
Yeah, Tourism is like you tryto it's so lovely to travel, but
you you try to like figure out, like how can I do this without

(30:55):
contributing too much more to the problems. You know. I think it's unfortunate
that people like move someplace it's socultural and they like it, but then
they really don't like it, andthey just want silence and they want everybody
to change to whatever cultural norms thatare total bs, you know in most
of the world. Like I loveliving in Pomona and knowing that if I
have a mariachi party, my neighborswill come over and not call the cops

(31:18):
on me. That's one of thereasons why I left Pasadena, because you
know, I loved Pasadena for likewalking around and there's cool shops and restaurants.
But like I went to one cityhall meeting and like, man,
I was like, oh, theseare the neighbors that complain about the noise,
you know, practicing violin and mydoor and they were beating a horse

(31:41):
that was hung up from a treewith a stick. Right songs is before
midnight. I got to be upat five for what before midnight? It's
fine in the morning, and youstill got a mariachi band going. Let
them go home and sleep. Youshould go for years of like just sleeping
through it. Like I'm at thepoint now where like I can fall asleep

(32:04):
on the plane before we even takeoff, or like oh yeah, like
the kids who can sleep at therestaurants with the Bomba's plane yeah, like
tired. Yeah, nothing wrong withthat. I live in Oregon now,
and Oregon's great, it's beautiful.But I bro let me tell you.

(32:25):
I grew up in southern California inCorona. All my friends are Mexican.
All the places I used to hangout with or all the restaurants used to
go to our Mexican I just misslike Mexicans. We don't have enough Mexican.
We have, there's Mexicans up here, but not as many Mexicans.
Every time I go back to California, I'm like, ah, and I

(32:45):
live right on the one border ofSanta Anna. Thank you, Adam.
I gotta go to Vietnam to seethat one Mexican though. Oh yeah,
there's there's something about mex sicking humortoo that like just makes me laugh,
like uh now we're going off tango. But like yeah, one of the

(33:07):
one of the videos I saw ithappened in there was like a there was
like a really smooth jazz. Itwas all white people hanging out this really
nice resort and there's just this likelike like a block away there's people like
there's a Mariactu band just like Ribbonas loud as they could. You can
barely hear the little smooth jazz band. It's like, yeah, oh that's
fucking great, all right. Imean they should have known, like why

(33:31):
are you gonna have the concert onthe patio there? Like it's indoor salon
music. So I'm just being bitterbecause I have it. I have a
I have a history with a classicalguitarist who I shall not name. Nobody
you know this is this is fromundergrad but like bringing up it's not nobody.

(33:52):
Nobody listens to this podcast. Youcan say his name. Even my
instrument building class. I joke withthe students that hornbostals ox is total b
s because they classify a guitar anda violin in the same category. And
I was like, but once bothonce plugged, once fread, and one's
not and so and I just say, and I just I'm very clear on
that distinction because being a violinist whohad an ex who was a classical guitarist,

(34:15):
like, I have many feelings.But anyways, but hey, you
still like the guitarist I have theguitars man his name, don't say his

(34:52):
name. Yeah, we'll keep you. I'm sure you'll never listen to Oh
you're so certain, You're so certain. No, I know he'll never listen
to this, Kurt, You're right, Hey, we have We have five
people watching our live stream right now. There are many comments, no questions.

(35:13):
Uh. A small conversation about thetheoreman with a user named Fatty mcfat
fat nice, great us your nameFatty mcfat fat apart from no Boys,
No Poe number nine who Yeah,he's a friend of mine. Shout out,
shout out No Poe number nine,Thank you, No Number nine,

(35:34):
Branden. And that's really it,and and and but it's nice to have.
I mean, it's it's a longlist, like a lot of comments.
I haven't checked our our stats ina long time, but I do
remember we had a little stint.Our most listened episode was really big and
like Bangladesh, So that's it was. Was it big the dish? I
thought it was. It was somewell either way, it was very indicative

(35:54):
of like like a streaming farm likeSpreaker has a staff of people who just
play their shows over and over toget more ad revenue. Hell yeah,
I'll take it. Or maybe we'rejust really popular in that in Southeast Asia.

(36:15):
You're welcome. Thanks oh yeah,glasses on. God, I can't
tell you. He looks like theporn channel on like channel ninety nine that
you got on like cable TV.That's what he looks like. When we
were like five years old, justlike streaming through the Oh yeah, the
na like the clicker. I mean, seatbelts were barely used. So it's

(36:42):
like, yeah, you guys usein the back seats now and we used
to ride in the trunk of thestation wagon all the time. Today.
Oh, let me tell you guysabout Vietnam. Yeah, so we ride
on motorbikes. Yep. So ababy's child seat is just a wire frame

(37:06):
that they put in the front ofthe motorbike. Hell yeah, it's just
a wire You just sit the kidthere, wire frame, no seatbelt,
know nothing, just just hopeing prayersall day long, just hoping prayers.
And that's why you're there. Lord. They need a they need like a
traffic spokes like we have Smoky theBear, but they have like a Vietnamese

(37:30):
version of that, but for likemaking sure your baby goes in the back
of the bike and not in thefront. It's like that's when they get
older, Like Bobby the bond trapthem on with a belt in the bonds
are so fucking good. You haveno idea. I sandwiches. That was
one of the most exciting like apartmentsI had. You lived above one Coffee.

(37:55):
Ever, I lived near Lee Sandwichesone on Colorado Bull in Pasadena.
I thought you lived the problem.I lived around the corner. I lived
like right between Santa Ana and LittleSaigon. So I got tacos and bond
me everywhere, and I'm like,heaven, this is so nice. That's

(38:15):
a good mixture, a great placeto be. I would go as far
to say that the Vietnamese perfected theFrench bag at. I like, there's
French bag ads are too heart like. They hurt your mouth, like they're
like they're basically assaulting your the topof your tongue or your tongue and like
the just like shred the top ofyour mouth. Not a Vietnamese. It's

(38:37):
a less tasty version of like CaptainCrunch or something. It's because of the
steaming. Man, they all thebread. Oh they do steam all the
bread. That's right, Yeah,I think you're right. Crunch. Oh
man, I hope we haven't Frenchlisteners. They're probably like, oh well,
now I'm infinitely not listening to themeven more. That's a safe that's

(38:58):
a safe ethnic like stereotype that youcan do, Like I just played a
pinball game called october Fest. Ican't do it. Are you French?
No, British. There's the safeones that you won't get like in trouble
for like German. Yeah, we'replaying this German pinball game called Octoberfest.

(39:20):
I'll send you guys a picture inthe chest. It's like the most cartoonish
looking German guy and he's I waslike, man, imagine if this was
like like, I don't know,you won't offend me. I was just
gonna say, imagine if this wasany other ethnicity, Oh okay, fair
enough? Yeah, yeah, youknow what, like I was, honestly
because then I honestly it's punching up, like yeah, it's okay, do

(39:46):
it? What can what can usGerman as a German heritage say? How
can how do we have the rightto be offended? No? Yeah,
you guys are you know what Imean? We get to make fun of
you guys. Do it good.I don't know. I at least another
like fifteen twenty years you fucked upand then call me anything you want,

(40:06):
because yeah, well I know inschool who like made some pretty He called
me like a like a Hitler loveronce. Oh my god, because you're
just Hitler Yeah, Kanye basically.But but like I was like, I
saw my dad. I was likedid we I was like, where do

(40:30):
we have family in Germany in theforties. He's like, no, we
came here in the eighteen thirties inIowa. And I'm like, all right,
cool, then no guilt here.No guilt that's in Argentina too.
I get like a lot of I'veonly had a couple of racist comments.
I'm big on TikTok, like Ilove TikTok, but I've only got in

(40:52):
a couple race comments. And oneof them was on me being a Nazi
from Argentina, and I was likewait what And then I was like,
oh yeah, a bunch of likeNazis did expat to Argentina. But I
was like, bro, what likethe whole country? Yeah, well,
I mean they all went to SouthAmerica, Brazil, Guatemala, Argentina.

(41:12):
There's a town in northern Argentina thatmy I went to on our honeymoon.
It's called Bardy Loch and it's liketheir little German town and I was like,
oh, we're everywhere. Yeah,prolific. I Actually one of the
things I did in Texas was myfriends and I were like having a throwback

(41:37):
and we watched Team America. Iactually had never seen, but I watched
south Park a lot, and soTeam America. It was really good.
And I love south Park. LikeI don't know, I mentioned that to
all of you that I wrote apaper about south Park. We talked about
south Park in college. I rememberI was like, oh my god,

(41:58):
this teacher is awesome. And it'sstill like brilliant to me to this day.
Like they're so good at like criticizingpop culture like so quickly, and
I loved that. I had toread this book like one of the only
books about like south Park and TheSimpsons, and all these academics were like
the world is ending, Like thesepeople are going to rot their brains by

(42:19):
watching south Park. And it's likeif you're understanding south Park, where you
think that they're promoting the ideas oflike Cartman, for example, like the
joke is on you right, likeyou're not supposed to be laughing with the
characters like you're laughing with the characters, Like that's like you're the problem,
you know. But I love thatso many things, like that episode about

(42:42):
pan pipes that I wrote about,you know, like the proving government got
really mad about it or were youknow, looking at like even how they
portray like Kim Jong il and NorthKorea. It's like, you know,
he got really mad about it too. And it's like they're making fun of
the stereotypes Americans have, and likeyou're you're laughing at how ridiculous the stereotypes
and like the average right ignorance thatwe have in the US about other parts

(43:07):
of the world for all sorts ofreasons. And but yeah, just just
thinking about like when to punch upor punch down or like all his like
these stereotypes. I just think,for example, being able to identify the
target of the joke is important tomake your own media literacy. Yeah,

(43:27):
it's funny brought that, like we'retalking about you know, different culture.
Uh words, let me get mywords together. Bottom line I'm saying is
Trey Parker and Matt Stone bought thelast existing Did you hear about this in
Colorado? So you know, youknow, you know the Casa episode uh
where car Cartman Like he he tellsButters, he's like it's the apocalypse so

(43:52):
that he can go to the birthdaybirthday party at better Butters gets invited to
birth a party and Cartman doesn't,So he convinces Butters to like crawl into
a cave underground. It's a refrigeratorand he's in there, and there's like
a search party looking for Butters.But then the friend is eventually like,

(44:13):
all right, I guess you cancome to Casa Bonita Cartman. And it's
so Cosaba if you're not familiar.It's like this chain of of like uh,
like Baja themed Mexican restaurants. They'slike cave divers and indoor cliff divers
and there's like and so it's likeit's like Mexican food, but it was

(44:36):
like the Midwest, so it's likereally bad. And so Trey Parker and
Matt Stone like it was a hugepart of a bunch of Midwesterners childhoods,
especially in like Colorado, and sothey bought the last remaining one and they
hired, uh this, They hireda chef from Mexico. She's like a
Michelin star chef and she's completely rewritingthe menu and they're like, Okay,

(44:58):
we're going for authentic the city andwe're going to pair our workers a living
wage so we can eliminate the tips. So it's just it's just really cool
there you go, Yeah, Leoput it in the chat. Nice,
but like what they're doing with therestaurant is really really cool. That's so
cool. And who knew that Mattand Trey were amazing uh musicians, they're
great writers. They they go onthey uh book a Mormon Yeah that's longer

(45:22):
uncut. That was all. Itwas a musical. I need to figure
out if I can like revisit thatpaper and then try to get them to
like now that I'm not like agrad student and I I will hopefully be
full professor soon, you know atthe upper echelons, as uh Leo said,

(45:42):
maybe they'll let me wear or they'lllet me uh interview them and and
like, but I don't know,because yeah, that would be cool.
So talk about the pan So thepandemic episode, so make us seem like
we're a lot bigger than we reallyare, Like you should come out.
You never heard it? Just onesong? Oh man, the amount of

(46:06):
work we'd have to do to getto that point is ridiculous. To what
point? People? Yeah? Right, no, but like we'd have to
have at least a release a month, and then we'd have to have some
sort of sponsorship and like, youknow what, it doesn't matter. It's
not quantity, it's quality. We'vebeen doing this podcast for three years now,

(46:27):
right we started? Yeah, almostfour years. Yeah, so that's
fine, all right, just letkeep going. My goal is one of
the guys moved to Vietnam and shiplike we're doing this baby. I've had
two kids since the podcast started.Damn, dude, you've had two Kidding
dad, you know, I'd behilarious if you talk to those professors that

(46:49):
you wrote the pan pipe for theSouth Park Paper and they're like you like
confronted them about them and like oneof them had like a cartman tattoo on
his chest. You're like, youwere so right this whole time. Just
one who admitted we were so wrong. Yeah, I should look up that
book again. I just remember readingit on the Big Blue bus and just
like be like, man, thesethese people have no sense of humor,
Like, how did they come upwith these theories about how screwed up millennials

(47:14):
are because of South Park, whenlike the joke is on that screwed up
written by people that are the onesthat fucked up society. Like that's like
that favorite, Like millennials are spendingtoo much money on avocado toast, Well,
you shouldn't have fucked up the housingmarket, Karen, Well, it's
because we're killing the diamond industry.Not enough millennials are buying diamonds. I

(47:37):
don't want everything's still about the millennials, but like they're talking about people really
of the age of like gen Zand oh yeah, Jen Alpha and like
these other generations. I'm like,you know, most of the millennials were
not like the youth that are youknow, doing whatever, Like I mean,
I feel youthful, but like,yeah, but did we not do

(47:58):
stupid things at that age two?Did not every generation do dumb things in
those ages? And like it justwell it's better documented now like cloth nines
as gen Z are having kids.Now, you're right, they are boomers.
Boomers that Gen Z's age were Idon't know, ruining the economy.

(48:19):
I don't, I don't I don'teven know what they were doing. But
no, you go to Vietnam.We're doing dumb ship. Yeah, not
like not like Adam was going toVietnam. Speaking of Vietnam, super I
just went to the winning team.That's true. Yeah we lost. That
one was not a tie. Wedefinitely Uh, Henry Kissinger died. Yeah,

(48:47):
I was gonna say, speaking ofVietnam, thank god that piece of
ship died. Yeah. No,absolutely not. Him and o J are
having a cup of cocoa right now. I saw this show second o J
reference speaking of so this jokes iso J can now finally can finally rest
Nicole Brown's killer is finally dead?Oh my god, I gotta send you

(49:12):
guys this meme if I have it, hold on you can't. One headline
that said something about like Bronco,you know, because of his car,
and I was just like, Ilike read it quickly and I was like,
oh no, that's like it justyou know, made it look like
a cal poly connection for a second. The Onion. Can you guys see

(49:34):
that one? Yes, The Onionhad had a headline that said, uh,
o J was allowed to live becausethe coffin wouldn't fit. Yeah,
there's there's not so fast. There'sOJ's more timely. You can make a
lot of good kissing your jokes,but I just feel like, you know,

(49:58):
she's more not even that contemporary.I mean he was acquitted. If
the I we really walked again theoffice. I walked into the office saying
that I was on a call andthey were talking about OJ and I was
like, if the glove don't fit, And then I got fired. No

(50:22):
I didn't. It works for thelaw offices and yeahpa k music and civil
government, right, the glove don'tYeah. No, Bonine says, now
we have the Kardashians. Thanks,Yeah, that's true. Do you have

(50:43):
the Kardashians? Damn it? Idid like that. What was the American
crime series that came out with andthey had like the whole like series for
the O. J. Simpson Trial. Cuba Gooding Jr. Did he play
OJE? He did? Yeah,it was on Netflix. But I remember
watching that maybe just before. Therewas a Slapstick Company. Yeah, sorry,

(51:09):
it's one that's not no, Igotta watch it. Feel goodrom Come,
there's the David Cross jokers. LikeI just saw Schindler's Listen. I
only laughed about three times, whichDavid Cross. I don't find him funny

(51:29):
all the time. But he's gota couple of really good jokes, like
that he was funny with Bob whenBob Odin Kirk was writing for him when
they did Mister Show. Yeah,Mister Show was really funny. Now he's
just like angry dude of the beer. Yeah. Sorry, that was solid.

(51:58):
Yeah, what do you listening too? Before we sign off for the
evening? What? What's your?Yeah? What's your? What's on repeat?
On a lot of I would say, like Lupita and No No Boy
and the Campero's Sons album that theyjust came out with. I'm gonna look
at my Spotify list. What wasI listening to recently? Besides stuff I

(52:20):
had to learn for gigs? CowboyCarter, you know so good. I'm
really sad you all didn't take Worldof Music when I had a lecture for
because I like packed up my lecturefor uh like Americana music. And so
did I did I teach you allabout Carolina chocolate drops? You did?

(52:44):
You did? I did at leasthave some of that lecture. Okay.
So I feel like since starting sincethe last like fifteen years, I've gotten
like more into country, probably throughMariacci and then like when I was playing
in the Old Time Ensemble that day, the Sweader from we did some of
the repertoire, and so like,I've been just like so into Afrolachan music,

(53:07):
like yeah, like you know,and and so interested in it,
and so I was. I wasreally thrilled when Beyonce's album dropped, and
you know, Rhannon Giddens is likeone of my heroes and our heroes,
and so you know, I'm soyeah, I would say, like Lupizza
and Beyonce and and Manacio's Campos andthen the No No Boy album, their

(53:30):
Empire Electric is really good right on? Is that the Rhiannon Giddens? Is
she the the banjo player on AmericanCorn? Yeah? And Texas Hold Them
and I think some other tracks.Yeah, So do you How are you
familiar with the game Red Dead Redemption? No? I've been playing Overcooked lately.

(53:52):
Oh, I get rid of mystress. Overcooked two is the best.
That's a fun one. That's theone where you're you're you're like a
little bear and you got to workwith a team and make sure the fish
doesn't burn and then chop the andthe tomato. Yeah, yeah, Arid
and I just go, yes,chef, yes chef, because you know,
after watching the and like, yeah, there you go. That's a

(54:13):
good one. No. Pone ninesays that is such a stressful game.
How does that get rid of yourstress? Because I can throw stuff and
jump off buildings when I'm stressed aboutThere you go Gang Beasts. I had
like a really bad year last year, and Gang Beasts was such a fun
Nintendo Switch game because you're just ablobby thing that's supposed to just like tear

(54:35):
up ship and you just like trashthe metro station or do whatever. And
it's it's like kind of hard tomove gracefully, but it's it's a hilarious
game that sounds like my everyday life, right important Lea's said, Leo's referencing.

(54:58):
He's talking about Red Dead Redemption andthat is a far cry from either
of the games we were just talkingabout. But in terms of the music
in that game, at least isthe banja player on that game is she
really is? She wrote most ofthe music for that game. For number
two. For number two nice ifyou like. I mean, it's it's

(55:20):
on a PC, Xbox or PlayStation, but it's beautiful, beautiful game storytelling.
No. Nine recommends the powerwashing simulator. Okay, animal Farm or whatever
to hang out, or Animal Crossing, Animal Crossing, Oh my god,
Animal Firms a book that I like. But anyway, yeah, I play

(55:43):
this George, this very Orwellian gameto relax the corruptions of communism and tsarist
Russia. Animal is a stressful butgood Lord, thank you. No.
Nine. You should you should listento Yeah, the Son album that they

(56:04):
just put Okay, so it's justlike Son. It's it's a black cover,
but yeah, it's a great it'sa great album. It's on Smithsonian
Folkways. Hey, let us knowwhen when you play. Not to go
back to video games, because Ilove video games, but let us know
when you set up your island onAnimal Crossing and let's let's let's connect.
All right, I'm gonna I'm gonnabuy that soon. My mother's always like,

(56:29):
why don't you get Animal Crossing?So okay, this soon? Yeah,
thanks mom. When my parents gotus Nintendo, I was like five,
right, but I remember they alllike sent us to bed early because
it was Christmas or like Chris Christmasbreak. And then after they sent us

(56:52):
to bed, then all the adultswere trying to play Nintendo, like my
aunt and uncle and my my parents, and we're all like, oh,
like what did they send us?And but I was like the kid who
you know? When I was six, I beat Mario and I would beat
the game before Luigi got to play. You know. I was really obsessed
with old school Nintendo dang up untillike Zelda Okarina of Time, and after

(57:15):
that with college, I just Ihave not kept up. Like I tried
playing Cuphead because one of my seniorproject students did a project on the music
for Cuphead. That game is sofucking stressful. I just lose it.
I was like, Adrian, Ican't play it, like it's so hard.
Yeah, it's like Charleston nineteen thirtiesjazzy, like Django Reinhart music.

(57:38):
Right, Yeah, that game wasthat I watched the documentary. The creators
of that game intentionally made that gamelike as hard as they could because they
were like games are too easy now, so we're going to make them really
hard. This game really hard.Has he not played the Dark Souls franchise
or just saying are you not familiar? No? I am? I?

(58:04):
I that was mean. That wasDonkey Kong Country has the best video game
music. This is no Phone nine. Yeah. The water level, the
water level in the Donkey Kong Country, that makes me feel that feels like
you're at the Do you remember inTaco Bell in the nineties they had that

(58:25):
thing where you dropped the quarter inthe water and you try to land it
on that thing. I feel likethe music in the water level of the
Donkey Kong Country is what it feelslike to be the quarter falling through that
thing the nineties. Good everyone.The game I just uh started playing because

(58:45):
it showed up on like the theNEYS system, like you subscribe to whatever.
I don't even know what I'm subscribingto. Unpaid for something, so
I can play an E S andsuper nes but it's like eight bucks or
whatever. But Snake, Rattle andRoll. When I was a kid,
I played that game and I playedBubble Bubble. It's just a shake like

(59:09):
little sings and you have to eatlike badminton type of ball things and grow
a tail and like way enough toopen the poral. But it's it was
one of the first three D gamesand I got it for Christmas, like
when I was a kid, likeyears ago. So that fun. It's
a lot of fun. It's alittle hard though, but I could beat

(59:30):
that game as a little kid andjust rocket. So I missed when I
had that type of focus to justbeat games like that and just lose over
and over and over again. Andnow that I'm going to play overcook now
time to go through a stress test. But yeah, when you're watching the
Bear, you're like inspired to dothat type of stuff. That show top

(59:53):
tier. I put it up therewith Breaking Bad. It's so good.
But I love Better Call Sau anddone yet. Yeah, yes, yeah,
this funny thing. I need towatch Better Call Saul. It's funny
watching Better Call Saul after I didall my paralegal stuff because I'm like,
he's he does so much illegal shiplike more than his stated in the show,

(01:00:17):
like this is a wild Kurt.I called Kurt for legal advice.
I were further, you didn't forthe city. You didn't. I don't,
No, No, he doesn't.He let me tell you. Let
me I'll call Kurt. I'll belike, hey, man, I need
to talk about we had. Wehad we had a p r O situation
because we wanted to play music atthe a certain event and I was like,

(01:00:39):
I'm not sure if we have contractswith our the b M. I
ask Katya Yadas. We went tohad a phone call. Kurt starts every
and he knows when I'm calling himfor this ship. He'll be like,
he'll pick up the phone. Hewon't even say highly and heered He'll be
like, just to let you know, I this is I am not a
legal attorney. This is not legaladvice. You cannot take this I legal
advice. And then when I goin my meetings, like yeah, my

(01:01:00):
lawyer friend told me, we can'tsee if I was starting my degree again,
and I decided I wanted to stayin music. I was still lean
towards as the musicology, but like, maybe I wish that I could convince
am I as students to take likelaw and some of these things more seriously,

(01:01:23):
because we need far more people inthese positions with laws, arguing cases
about like music, about rights,especially thinking about how like the copyright system
favors some types of music and sometypes of music and others, and so
yeah, I feel like that's awhole area that our department doesn't really talk

(01:01:46):
about. Well we don't. Theydon't really have the not the experience.
Robert T. Garden did a greatjob. Sorry, go ahead, go
ahead, God, God. Yeah. So God has a suggestion, maybe
we should put salaries of all theall the top paid people in each major
and then that way, you know, you could just put lawyer right on

(01:02:08):
top, right there, so allthe students. I want to go for
that one right there. Yeah,I don't reminds me of a cult leader
right now. Classes he's in Vietnam. We call him God, very pixelated.
Cal him down, doctor Jo seeme fully, you know you'll go
blind. Thank you for saving us. We took a Careers in Music class

(01:02:32):
with you. It was my secondsemester there, and one of the people
who spoke was one of Disney's attorneys, right that that was a connection with
so doctor Miller. Michael Miller.Oh okay, okay, yeah, because
he was like always coming into town. He can come talk. And so

(01:02:52):
Michael Miller has always been really supportiveof me. And because I covered a
couple of classes that he's also taught, so I could dig up his name.
But he actually did a zoom sessionfor students this year in careers as
well. That's so when I wasgoing into the paralegal stuff he was.
He kept popping up in my mind, like because I was already I told

(01:03:15):
you before the show recorded just whatwe were dealing with. And I was
like, well, maybe I shouldgo into the law because I had been
doing intellectual property stuff in the musicindustry, and so that's kind of the
focus. Which is why I appreciatewhen Leo calls me with these questions because
it makes my law my legal research. And I'm like, I'm not your
lawyer, friends, but I thinkthat. And also somebody who can do

(01:03:36):
taxes for gigging musicians, because everybodyneeds somebody who knows what to do right,
And I figured out a little bithow to do like my own ten
ninety nine, and so I candeal with my my gigs on one side
and my you know, my Wtwo's and everything on the other side.
And I haven't I'm a big spreadsheetperson, so like I'm just hyper organized

(01:03:58):
and like literally Ned Flanders style.Granted, I'm filing my taxes like Sunday,
but I could have filed them onJanuary first, because I have all
my stuff together. But then youhave to wait for your W twos to
get or you know, whatever yourstuff to get sent. Yeah, but
that's a career too that I thinkit's far underserved and everybody's always desperate to

(01:04:20):
find somebody who knows, somebody whocan answer their questions. And if you
had like a really easy, liketen minute consultation, like cheap enough fee
to be like yeah, let mehelp you through whatever, like yeah,
that could be a lot of sidegigs on top of like offering to do
people's taxes. So yeah, it'sI it's about leaving academia, that's one.

(01:04:41):
So we need legal and contract expertsand music focus CPAs. Yeah,
that's actually there's a need and lookat that we could fill it. Let's
so Fatty mcfat fat says this isa great comment. At least fat in
mcfathat he says students should be paid, students should have the power to create

(01:05:04):
new majors in career paths. Ithink those are two different suggestions and they
may be worth exploring. But yeah, like I think that's the feedback that
the departments should look at. LikeLeo and Adam, I don't know if
you participated in the feedback questionnaire abouta year ago for cal polypomona, but

(01:05:28):
like I love that feedback question.It was like a whole zoom session.
It was great, But like thatshould be the type of thing, like,
Okay, let's identify the needs thatare out there today in order for
the department to stay relevant, foruniversities to stay relevant in these types of
areas of entertainment. I guess,I guess like maybe I'm seeing it from

(01:05:50):
a different perspective, but I feellike, so I agree. I'm just
thinking like administratively, like where's wherewe prevented from doing that? Right?
And so some of it is becauseof the way that programs are accredited.
So because we have the NASM accreditation, we have to require X numbers of

(01:06:12):
credits, and there's all these differentways we have to count up the units
and the credits that students take andthe types of classes that we offer.
And I think that we could actuallysupport that kind of like build your own
major and those types of things moreif we had more flexibility for professors to
offer new classes when like a topiccomes up and they're working in it,

(01:06:35):
so like doctor Chane Cler works alot in with some AI stuff, and
then I think like having the flexibilitywhere he or they could have time to
like prep that class and create anew class in a timely manner for like
a new topic would be great.And to have students be able to take

(01:06:56):
more electives so they could take theclasses that interest them when they're offered,
and like more interdisciplinary approaches to butit's it's definitely hard because the curriculum process
is so you know, it's soladen with paperwork and review steps and for
good reason to make sure that youall are also getting certain bases covered basically

(01:07:20):
like metagogy, like writing intensive andall of this stuff. But I guess,
yeah, it seems like no,please, I'm sorry. I was
just gonna add one extra thought.But there are programs that sadly are being
cut. It's places at like Evergreenand oh my god, there's this other

(01:07:45):
place where somebody know works but it'sreal similar where it's like super hippie type
of university where like there's no gradesand there's all these ways that things are
like extra free and creative. Unfortunately, programs like that are being targeted as
like not being business for not beinglucrative enough. But it would be cool
that I wish we could do that. I think there's a lot of red

(01:08:08):
tape on the federal and state levelsthat make it really difficult even if faculty
want to do it. Well,it's the price we got to pay to
maintain our great capitalistic nation. Yeah, I mean it would be nice to
if there are more faculty who Ithink had that vision. I think it

(01:08:28):
would be also easier to maybe likebuild some rotating schedule, but it's a
lot of moving parts. They ifthey do another alumni survey, I think
finding ways that the university listens tostudents and alumni because you all have the
dollar power, right, thinking ofthe capitalist society, we're just cogs in

(01:08:49):
the wheel complaining. So you know, I've been called like spicy and crazy
and a bitch in the department,in the department and in the campus.
Those are compliments in twenty twenty.For I'm just going to get a big
office. That's what I look forin a partner. They want spicy,

(01:09:10):
chaotic, and a bit we werespicy, are crazy and you know whatever.
Damn, that's like those are likesassy compliments. Yeah, those are
set like like we we interviewed thespicy crazy bitch doctor Jesse. I mean
it's that you're pressing the right buttonswith the people who you know, our

(01:09:30):
status quo and you know, whitesupremacist type of if they do it again,
you say you left the soft parkjokes for the wrong reason, right,
Fatty mcfat fat says crazy is thebest. Yes it is, fat
fat, Yes, it is crazy. Is radical, you know, not
in the nineties term well yeah,nineties term radical. I changed saying crazy

(01:09:55):
to wild, and I just saywild all the time now, and I'll
be I'll be Ai'll be like,oh man, dude, like fucking Tracey
just left and she divorced her husband, Like, dude, that's wild.
That's bananas. How people react that, they're like, please stop saying wild
that they look at me that way. This is very serious. My partner

(01:10:18):
wicked all the time, and yousay wicked. But you also that's also
a Boston thing, so everybody wouldbe like, where are you from,
you know, Boston, And I'mlike, no, wicked, smart,
right, I love it. I'mjust gonna start saying wicked more. I'll

(01:10:38):
say wild too, so then it'sit's will normalized saying wild. You know,
wild's good. You're just we findout you're saying wicked all the time
because you're promoting the new Ariana Grandeor the musical whichever. Yeah. I
had to start saying like, that'sbananas, because when I was a youth
pastor, you have to tone itdown. But I said it like really

(01:11:00):
inappropriate, like someone's telling me somethinglike, yeah, I struggle with pornography,
Like, dude, that's bananas.I had a student like, yeah,
well, some of my best friendsjust died in a car accident.
It was a head on collision.Dude was drinking and like they couldn't they
could barely identify at the morgue,and I was like shocked, and I
just went that's bananas. And yourbrain was like like went through all the

(01:11:28):
scenario, it went through muscle memory. I don't even know. I just
I felt it was like days beforethey told me. I'm like, that's
bananas, and immediately I'm like,I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to
say that. I'm so s Idon't know if it's happened, you know,
it'd be crazy if they were likethey did hit a jaquita banana truck.
That's how they got That's why theygot in the accident. They slipped

(01:11:53):
on a banana. Feel my friendMario Kart. That's that is a fun
game. That's one of my favorite. We used to have tournaments Mario Kart
in uh in our dorms and sowe would drag our our like the one

(01:12:15):
person's TV out with the system andwe would all like to sit in the
hallway at the end of the hallwayand just play. And the ari would
be like the fire marshals won't likethat, so like, just pick it
up before the morning. We'll racethem for it. Go to bed nerd
fun Marshal. I'll just pour wateron them. What they have to say,

(01:12:44):
Oh my god, Vietnam, dude, Vietnam maybe fucking Catalina, damn
Vietnam. Old timey music club?What is it? Called? The US
A full time stream? So Irecorded on I recorded on the album we

(01:13:04):
recorded we were the U c lA Bluegrass Hoppers Baby, but I don't
know if it's still on there anymore. But my voice was too loud for
bluegrass because I overpowered the other womenwhen we did trio stuff. But then
in Mariaccio I was never loud enough. So that was a fun a fun

(01:13:28):
year of like trying to play betweenthe two different styles and stuff. Yeah,
blue grass. Blue Grass harmonies areare are hard to do. They're
they're high too, and like Iguess I'm a soprano, but it's it's
just it's high all the time.I just feel like my voice gets tired.
So bluegrass is not an easy genreeither. Yeah, that's tough.

(01:13:53):
I love watching bluegrass. We Iwas like surprised to learn what I thought
was bluegrass my whole life. Inyour class, You're like, no,
that's not at all bluegrass. That'sjust folk and fingerpicking. It has to
be like I remember, it waslike a sorry fat mcfat Fat points out
that someone said hi all the time. Yeah, I was thinking it's supposed

(01:14:17):
to be like the sad, brooding, high pitched, like very specific definition
type of music. Yes, highlonesome sound, thank you high all the
time, Hi all the time.I couldn't. I didn't last because I
was high all the time. Icouldn't keep up with them because I thank

(01:14:40):
you. Doctor Viejo units starting tomake a make your own bond class that
doesn't work? Do they make thosein the library? Gummy? Only if
it's an instrument at the same time, right, Only if it's it's a
woodwind right, And in your ethnomusicologystudies have did you ever find anything like

(01:15:08):
that where it was it was usedfor imbibing the psychedelics but also for as
an instrument. I feel like therehas to be no that's just the drink.
I'm sure there's some I do.In the communities where I worked,
and I guess I still work,Like usually there was nothing like that.

(01:15:31):
You know, in in Quichua communities, like you might have a lot of
like drinking of like chicha or likecorn beer. You know, sometimes like
a lot of times like soda Cocacola as well, but not not really
any other drugs like that. Andin with the Mohawk teachers I was working

(01:15:53):
with and working in like elementary schoolclassrooms that was like very very g rated.
So I didn't I did not chooselike the party music and the field
work where like you might do mollyor ecstasy or anything like that. None
of that, No I did.I did try the tea once, just

(01:16:14):
a tiny bit, but I Ididn't over do it too much because I
I, uh, with my seizuresand like the medications, I'm like,
yeah, let's look like let's notjust cut every joke. I was gonna
make out at the knees, likeyou good, It's okay. I mean
I like Beavis and butt Head twoand that one episode where they're like crawling

(01:16:34):
across the desert. Isn't that themovie? David Letterman plays the dad.
Speaking of psychedelics, I had afriend give this to me for my birthday
and I thought it was just regularchocolate. It's magic Belgian chocolate. Is
it like magic? It's open cinnamonFrench toast it is? It's psilocybin.

(01:17:02):
It is magic mushrooms. How isit? I haven't had it yet,
but we were at the football arcadeand I was like, baby god.
I thought this was like a chocolatethat she really wanted to try. So
I started open it and my drummerwas like whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa. Read the back andthen I looked at it. I was
like, oh, thank god Ididn't eat that entire because I was about
to just mow down on it.Yeah. I think saving this the only

(01:17:25):
time I did an edible where itaffected me. And actually it was like
sixteen hours. I did not knowthe right dosage. I watched Costa Padre
and then oh, this is why. This is how you tell what a
stoner movie is like. Because firstbut that that was a good time.

(01:17:47):
And then Adrian's mom saw us likefinishing the movie and we're like, I
dropped it. I took an ediblefor eight hours, so it was like
sixteen hours. I just remember watchingthe sunset for like several hours. I'm
terrified to do more edibles after that, because oh so that's that's the fun

(01:18:09):
part. Like, so you've gotto dose it right, because sometimes edibles
will make you like it feels likeGod is punishing you, like the entire
time. Stop it at him,stop it what I do. It's very
it's very oppressed. But the timesthat you dose it right, it's great.
But like on the other side ofit, there was a time I
took an edible. This I wasat a music festival and this girl I

(01:18:32):
was with, she like took anedible out and I just popped in my
mouth. She gave it to meand then she went in her purse to
look for something else and I poppedin my mouth and she like looks up
from like going through a person.She's like, where's the edible? And
I was like, I ate it. She was like, oh no,
that was for like all of us. And I was like, oh man,
I was high for like a day. Yeah. But at the end

(01:18:57):
of it, though, when Icame out the other side, and I
was like, why I was lost? I couldn't get back to my tent.
I didn't know where I was atthe end of it. Like when
I find I was like, whenyou're that high too, And doctor Via
you probably were like this. Youwere like, oh, I guess this
is just how I'm gonna be.Now, I'm gonna be. This is
how I'm going to be the restof my life. I better get used
to this. I'm gonna lay hereand watch the sunset. And am I

(01:19:20):
still alive? Like it's basically thereforever. And when you come out of
it, you were so grateful.You're like, oh my god, I
survived, and like, what didyou do? Just lay on your couch
for eight hours? I watched andthen I went upstairs and lay down and
watched the sunset, and I don'teven remember. You had a very lovely

(01:19:44):
experience, a great night. Therewere no danger. I highly recommend watching
Sober and Stoned. Let's just sayit's only it's the Will Ferrell movie,
right, Yeah, and he doesn'tspeak Spanish, but he's like speaking those
Spanish lines so like he memorized them. But when the virgin Mary is like
flashing like that scene, I feltlike I lived in that scene for like

(01:20:09):
a year, because that sex scenemust have taken forever. I don't with
the dummy. Why would you?The fatty mcfat fat says, Masters in
Holistic Music Therapy and Ceremonial Psychedelics muchcall me doctor Fatty mcfat fat. Do

(01:20:30):
I like you, mcfat Do weknow you in real life? I don't
know, but I really like he'sone of my buddies. Oh is it
one of your friends? Yeah,he's from from Junior High. One of
my best buddies. Oh cool,Fat mcfat fat is dope. I've people
heard this part of the conversation becauseI feel like after the fact that I
don't know if people are going tolisten for all two hours and then like

(01:20:54):
they do. Yeah, we havefour viewers right now. Nice, this
might be a couple episodes. Wemight be able to get one. I'm
going to break it up. Probablymaybe three episodes out of it. Yeah,
well we have right now I havethis session at two hours and twenty
four minutes, and then there wasan additional like fifteen minutes before that.
I had to stop because of technicalissues because of the sharks Vietnam, the

(01:21:18):
shots in Vietnam, my godly beautythat didn't allow the camera to pick up
the camera. Gonna do it.No, that's right, that's right,
foiled again. We can only imaginehow beautiful you are. I can only
imagine, Adam, every time Italk to you. I want to move

(01:21:38):
to Southeast Asia. I want tomove to the now. I have an
egg, I have a second bedroomright there, calling your name. You
don't get any of your stuff though, Yeah, none of my stuff,
my cats or my wife. It'sjust being Adam. Now. Yeah,
I might just one song now youcan bring Oh no, it is a

(01:22:01):
brood of flight four hours. We'reat twelve thirty. All right, folks
to say good night, doctor Valejo. Thank you so much for being on
our show. Yeah, thanks forhaving me here. I hope we covered
the burning questions everybody had about academiaand I, you know, talking about

(01:22:24):
South Park, Nintendo. It wasexactly what we dreamed, yes, even
better. We've been wanting to justhave an in depth conversation about it for
a long time. And so thankyou with you specifically, we really love
you and appreciate you, and wetalk about you all the time. You're
so inspiring and you doing such greatwork. And I can only imagine we

(01:22:45):
were the first class you had allthe other students' lives that you've been changing
in the last eight years since wewere able to have you as a teacher.
So thank you so much for beingon the show. Fat that says
thank you, doctor, and heagrees, Yeah, we love you,
Oh thank you, and no quotenine texts in me. He's really enjoying
the show. Awesome. It's definitelylike that first class, And like those

(01:23:09):
first four years, I feel likethey really they always stick with you,
right because you're constantly reflecting. Andit was just fun being kind of like
similar ages, similar sense of humor, and just like having a blast,
you know, and nobody was worriedabout what was on the test. It
was just like, here's this othercool ship to talk about. And and
so I really have enjoyed seeing allthe cool things that you all are doing

(01:23:30):
in music and not in music,because you know, that's how life pans
out, you know, a lotof times a week. It's nice to
have different chapters, and it's reallywonderful to see what you're all doing and
that I like. Thanks for invitingme to just, I don't know,
chat about silly things and serious thingsanytime, anytime. If you want to

(01:23:53):
be an unpaid consultant for the showminute, you're getting a track job.
It's like basically saying you'll be anunpaid There you go. You're a pretty
good at it and animal crossing andovercooked soon. Okay, this has been

(01:24:16):
a great episode. This is goingto be fun to edit. Give me
a couple of weeks. I'll probablychop it up and keep working. This
is the first one where we'll actuallyhave the video posted, so we'll be
on YouTube on our YouTube. That'sthe only one. Can you send me
the YouTube link to our channel?Yes, I can't wait to see what

(01:24:40):
Adam looks like. He looks exactlyas you see him. I look I
look like my emotion faded. Youtoo, Check out and we'll plug the
in your little pharreal movie. Yes, yeah, what do you want to

(01:25:02):
plug m your website? World?Oh yeah, world music text one world
music. I guess, uh Lupita'srecent album, The Bars recent album,
and then No No Boy recent album, their recent album, and they're based
near you all except for me,all right this year? Well let's see,

(01:25:29):
because No No Boys up in Portland, that's where their their hometown is
now they are, yeah, butthey're on tour right now. I think
they're in Minnesota this week and they'regoing to be at u c l A
on May second, So I'll beat that concert. Oh my god?
Should I get them for LT.Gray? Yeah? They're amazing. How
do you spell it? So?No No Boy if you look up,

(01:25:50):
I think it's No No Boys songwriterdot Com is his main site. Okay,
that's doctor Julian SEPARETI right, yeah, yeah boy, okay. And
then Mariacci they have like a Sony'salbum Spot and Smithsonian that just came out.

(01:26:14):
Mariacci and then Lupita and Fante's recentalbum is the it's like a classic
like throwback so love like in theyou know, like in the old old

(01:26:38):
films. Oh nice, All right, I'm gonna ask John, do you
do you remember John Ladies? Yes, he's our he's our our talent buyer
for LT. Gray. I workedwith him you still interview him, No,
I. I bring him up hereevery year. Okay. So in
the city was like, hey,we want to put a Latino for music

(01:26:59):
for on and I was like,well, I'm gonna put like a legit
one on and I started working withJohn. But yeah, he comes up
every year. Nice. He Sohe had a talent His agency was called
Colo. I think he still doesstuff with it, but he basically got
his roster bought by Epidemic Sounds.Epidemic Epic Sounds. But yeah, he

(01:27:23):
helps us out with talent buying andhe runs the stage and he's still he's
still doing his thing. Yeah,but I'll mention no no boy to him.
Yeah, he's great and he doesa lot of his He puts a
lot of his research into songs ratherthan articles because he's like, you know,
people are excited if like three peopleread your dissertation or like a bunch

(01:27:44):
of people read your articles, butlike you could be at a concert with
like hundreds of people and they're alldamning to your songs about you know,
your research basically, so that's tight. I try to use his work and
like and the Carolina chocolate drops isan example to students of like you can
do serious research and then find ways, like creative ways to express it and

(01:28:06):
to share it. You know,you know, writing is great, like
I love writing my articles, butlike you know, I love listening to
these albums too and learning more soYeah, fact kindly recommend it so well.
Thanks for joining us on just onesong, and thank you for the

(01:28:27):
music recommendations. Thanks for having me. Yeah, anybody else sign? Oh
do you have any gigs coming up? Gigs? Well, I'll be a
like a. I'll give a cameoappearance on May second with No No Boy
at UCLA at the Fower Museums.The Mariacci Class is performing on April thirtieth.

(01:28:50):
And I don't have any other majorevents like public events book just so
far, like backyard parties and thingslike that. But we'll crash. I'll
give us. I'll pook your flightat him. Yeah, once in a
Baldwin Baldwin Park tomorrow six thirty,So I won't crash that one. It

(01:29:13):
will be good food, true,I'll be I'll find it. I'll just
follow my nose. Thank you somuch, Yes, thank you, and
good night to our our wide audiencetoo, and good afternoon, good morning
to good morning, Vietnam. Thecurrent students wouldn't get these jokes either,

(01:29:35):
so I feel like, yeah,you know, it's okay. They'd be
like, eh, what is that? What's the Robin Williams on TikTok TikTok,
drink apple juice because OJ will killyou. Sorry. Third fourth was

(01:30:00):
the last Hey on that Hey WaterlooThey said water lube, water based lube,
My water based lube. That's ourother podcast. No, that's our
other sponsor. I would love tohave a yeah, especially as you get

(01:30:24):
older. I'm sorry, education,we're learning. This is going to be
a blooper. I don't know ablooper, A blooper water sloop. There
are no bloopers. Blooper. Yeah, a little blooper, a little blooper,
make it happen, Lord it blooper. I hardly even know her.

(01:30:51):
Okay, so over here on theWest coast, Yeah that the the ethics
police haven't shut Adam down from thisVietnam. He's not saying it. Oh
that's right, and he's God.Yeah, God can sell it exactly.

(01:31:12):
God knows all. Just let metell you, all right, good night,
everybody, Thank you, listeners lookingup