Discussion: Ska with Brayden Wiggins

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Produce myself, Monkey Up in the mirror of Monkey Sounds
the Last.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Town. We have one rule.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Let you all must obey, but everyone must of a
wife's satins in their own school.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Monkey Way a Town. Were like the best thing about
the podcast is when the people are already talking when
the recording starts. So we were talking about Zen, which
I've had Zin before, but I feel like good old
coded nicotine nicoret gum. I'm not sponsored by Up and
Up from Target. This is the knock op generic brand.

(00:43):
The Target makes I feel like if you were to
put him side by side, it's like maybe a half.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Of his in Okay. Yeah, for me, I was using
like I I there's a whole story behind how I
got into it. It was like I didn't even know
it existed. And then I was in like Waikiki in Hawaii,
and I was like drinking out bar, watching live music
and I liked cigars before that, and I was like, oh, man,
I think I said out loud by myself, so someone

(01:08):
heard me nearby. I was like, man, I wish I
had a stogy right now. I had a beer in
my hand. I was like, I wish I had a
stogy right now. And some guys like, here, man, take
one of these, and he gave me one and I
tried it, and I was like, this is awesome. I
think he gave me like the six milligram one. It
was awesome for like maybe fifteen minutes before I had
to go outside and like sit on the.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Ground and you needed another one.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
After that, I was like, no, I'm not doing that again.
And he even gave me two and I like threw
away the other one.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Was that your first time with nicotine?

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Uh? No, I mean because I've smoked like cigars and stuff.
And then back in college, back at a cal polit Komona,
we used to go to that center's hookah lounge all
the time, at least before I was twenty one. That
was like one of the only things you could do
that was like kind of cool. That's true hoogle lounges.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Yeah, every nued to do out there.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
I was always just trying to keep things going like it.
You know, it'd be like a Tuesday night and I
was like, Hey, what's everybody doing to night? And everyone
be like why do you always wait till the day
of to ask us to do anything? And like, because
I have anxiety and I don't like to plan ahead
because I might not feel like doing that thing. Well,
we would like we would.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
Go to like I think Tea Gardens classes on a
Tuesday night. Ah right, and Lee, I don't know if
you're this class, Adam, you were with me, but like
he it was one of those three and a half
four hour classes. Adam leaves as I'm telling his story
relevant to him.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
He's like, fuck your story, dog, cool story, bro.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
We would go out like during the break we always
gave us like like a half hour break between sections
of the class, and we would just go to the
round table and we would just get plastered and then
come back to oh yeah and just not just not
know what was going on.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
That was the move that was the music industry that
we thought we were like, all right, let's talk about
music and go to round table and drink like Bronco
brown or whatever, like ales that they sold at the
round table.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
There's no rule against that, right, Like, is there some
rule in the handbook about showing up the class like buzzed?
Is there anything?

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Like it's public intoxication because I don't know public campus,
so yeah, it's illegal.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
But to get hammered and go to class. It was
the only way to tolerate some of those late nine classes.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
I probably done that if I could, But I graduated
shortly after I turned twenty one, so I couldn't even
have even gone to round table if I wanted to.
Oh that's right, I mean I could go eat pizza.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
But it's okay.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
We're all not as good you do brown table, little
brown bag, which apparently brown bag is you can't it's
a racially sensitive term. You can't say it anymore. I
was corrected, yeah, said. I was like, oh, you got
to bring a brown bag lunch, And someone was like,
you can't say. I also live in Portland, so what
is it?

Speaker 4 (03:52):
How is it a racial term?

Speaker 2 (03:59):
I was like, I live Inland. You guys like, oh,
I mean, like it's very it's very cliche. But hook lounges,
choke hold on lounges. It looks like it looks like
Adam is the.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Brown bag.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
What what's to deal with that?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Because oh, I don't I don't know.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
I know that as an improv term if you say
something inappropriate, oh.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
The brown bag rule. So that's like, if you say
something wrong, they put a brown bag over your head.
It's like in a clean show.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Brown bag, Oh if you say like a naughty like yeah, titties,
pretty much anything inappropriate not PG.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
When I was when I did high school improv, that
was like a they do the improv competitions, and that
was always a that could be a disqualifier for a
lot of things depending imagine that.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
The clean shows are like more challenging because you can't
just rely on profanity to be funny.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Yeah they are, but I think it also makes it
more fun, like I'm not trying to be like I
think crass humor is too is too easy, Like it's
it's too much of an escape, like oh, you just
tell a dick joke on stage and like you're gonna
get laughs. But it just feels cheap and if you
have to like be creative around it, it's like I
don't know, I feel like you focus more on the

(05:12):
content less shock value.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I think I think.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Shock value is what it's about, Like that that's the
whole reason it works at all, Or people can.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
A horror movie I would just startle.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, like it makes you go and you feel tingly
and you're like, oh, that's nervous laughter, Like that's you know,
maybe just as good as regular laughter.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
A well placed a well placed f word or naughty
word is pretty great, though, Like if it's done with
a class.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
I could not agree more. We like try to slip
a curse word in there, but then it would have
been contrived. I couldn't make it. We couldn't make it
word clean.

Speaker 4 (05:48):
Clean show tonight, Leo talk about who could choke holds?

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Who could choke holds?

Speaker 4 (05:52):
Oh? I know, that's I just thought I thought it
was funny.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
Oh that one they got like the hose, They got
the hose and they go.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Like that seems that one seems a little racially charged.
Like he's like a like ambiguously Arabic wrestler with like
a hookah. That seems like a like a pinball machine,
which are ambiguously uh racist and awesome. Who there's a

(06:22):
pinball I go to a pinball place over by my
house and they have a German like an Octoberfest one,
and it's like these caricatures of like German looking people,
and I was like, dude, if they did that with
I don't mean any yeah, any other ethnicity, I don't
we addressed, it would be hilarious.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
We just interviewed doctor Vaejo where it's like the Germans,
it's like the one group you can make fun of
with impunity.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
Like I was just gonna say that, it's like they
kind of messed up. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's
unfair to lump them all in with you know.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Certain groups of people certainly held political.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Power in certain decades.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
We were, you know, we were we were just talking
to some of my coworkers and I guess there's this
new religious exemption in the military, at least the army side,
where like you can claim Norse heritage, so you can
grow your hair out, grow a beard, and drink beer
in the US Army. In the US Army, like it's

(07:19):
one of those religious exemptions. But to prove it is
like you got to prove your Norse heritage and you
got to like it's up to by combat. Yeah, and
then you get the blood Eagles, but like then it's
up to the commander. And I was like, I couldn't
I want army camel later hosen and I want my
canteen to be a Stein like just doesn't translate well.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Of it.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Every morning, like how bad?

Speaker 3 (07:47):
How bad do you want to look like Jason Momoa
from Dune while you're in the military, you know, like, right,
that's that's how much you're willing to put in the
effort to get past those.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
I don't have sour kraut. I am going eight wall.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
If I look like Jason Momoa, I'd be doing a
lot more people.

Speaker 5 (08:05):
I know that you're married, sir.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Well, so it was Jason Momoa is, Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
He's married to Lenny Kravitz's.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, Kravitz who was apparently hung like a horse.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
It's it's uh, Lisa Lisa Bonet, Yeah, that's he.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I don't think they're married anymore. I was literally thinking
about that in my kitchen to day. I was like,
I think he's. The preview for the Minecraft movie came
out today and Jason Momoa is in. It was with
Jack Black, and I was like, I wonder if Jason
Momoa is still married to We need a factor.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
I am looking at the Minecraft I didn't even know
this was I.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Thought a brain rock. No, yeah, just the amount of
brain rot that comes with my job because I have
to be on social media for like several hours and
I just see the trailer just drop for Minecraft movie.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (09:02):
He divorced earlier this year. Yeah, it horse fan to
address how terrible it was for me to call her
Lenny Kravitz's ex wife. Like she's her own She's her
own person in her own right, with her own career,
you know what I mean, Like.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Well, but I've heard of Lenny Kravitz and I haven't
heard of Lisa show.

Speaker 4 (09:24):
Which I guess is not a legacy that age very well,
you know.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
Yeah, I would stick with Lenny Kravitz.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Oh yeah, so what was your claim to fame? I've
never heard of you? Oh yeah, I was on a show. What.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, but she's been are you? Okay?

Speaker 4 (09:44):
I guess she's been in some movies and some TV shows,
But yeah, the Cosby Show is kind of.

Speaker 5 (09:52):
Yeah, you know, right, what's it? She got paid out
in fat for that though, residuals and stuff?

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Oh yeah, I mean when it was still showing.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Of course, dude, it's still playing what in Vietnam? It's
just getting there at them.

Speaker 4 (10:08):
It's just it's because the sharks keep chewing on the
internet cables, so it takes a while effort shows to
get over there. You know what, Jack Black is in it,
because of course he is, and.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
What kids movie is is he not in this dan Age?

Speaker 4 (10:28):
That's a legacy actor. You know what's funny that is
hard to like think about, partly because I'm not a child, Like, yeah,
he's in most kids movies. I'm just he did the
Kung Fu Panda series on Netflix. Like, I'm like he
had that much spare time.

Speaker 5 (10:46):
Yeah, so much spirit time. Especially the band stop right right.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
I heard about that. I didn't.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
I also heard that they're going to restart next year
with a new tour.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah. He made another comment because when that happened, it
sounded like they were done. You're right. Yeah, I was
really sad about it. It just came to her. Yeah,
it's just it. Well, they also have a song Kyle
Quit the Band, So I was like, Oh, that would
be the most epic Kyle quit the band. Uh stage,
come on, they were implement it into the act.

Speaker 4 (11:20):
It's true.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
They're like a satire band and can I took themselves
so serious?

Speaker 4 (11:26):
We keep going on this road? Can we introduce our
guests because we've been it's been ten minutes and we've
not even been on a single relevance.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
What a great opening, No, it's great.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
We just slid dude, that just shows how great of
a guest we have because we just chat with him
like old pals of old times.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
I know, I just saw like eleven minutes and thirty
five seconds. I was like, we should probably tell people
who we're talking to.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Who do we have on tonight, Kurt, We.

Speaker 4 (11:52):
Have one, mister Brandon Wiggins.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Braiden is of.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
Course another one of our college buddies. Because but but
it's fun to like have these connections to people who
are you know, still relevant and working in the music
industry in their own riot and exploring different areas of it.
And we all knew Braiden to be like the hype
man of the school, like wow, he just you were

(12:25):
always playing shows, you were always playing well, and you
always just had this energy on stage and with the
crowd that like even to this day, you I haven't
I rarely see groups that bring your your energy to
the stage and your charisma and on top of that too,

(12:45):
like it doesn't leave, it doesn't stop when you're off stage,
like you still maintain this this really like pleasant and
fun energy. Like we just you're just a great dude
to be around, and thank you for coming on the show,
and we want to talk about you tonight.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
I do like talking about myself, so I'm happy to
be here. But that all being said, it's nice to
hear how you remember me, because you know, it's it's
it's interesting after what being it's like eight plus years
since I graduated or it's coming up on eight years
something like that. Yeah, it's wild and to think about,
like you know, you often wonder like what what was

(13:26):
the lasting impression that I left on this group of
people that became important to me over the course of
however many years. And you know you're not always I
mean me being you know, an insecure person like anybody else.
You wonder you know, like, oh, I hope, I hope
when people think of me that they they're at least,
you know, thinking of like I improve their life in

(13:48):
some way, even if it was very small. That's it.
That's to me, like life has always been about the
connections that you make along the way. Like if you
had to put a gun to my head and ask me,
what's the meaning of life and I had to have
an answer, it's for me about like the connections. It's
the it's the the love, like even the big, big
and small you know, yeah, so that that really means

(14:08):
a lot to hear. And uh, I really appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
I mean, I mean, I mean it. I mean it's
sincerely like I I think I think all of us agree.
And most people you encounter like you're just you're just
a cool dude, and like you just had always had
this just this fun crew around you. And I think
you accomplished something that like a lot of a lot
of people or a lot of musicians would are not

(14:37):
able to do for a lot of people, And that
was make me appreciate ska music.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Like it was like too white for me.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
You know, this is me saying it, But like whenever
we saw you guys play in at cal Poly at
another venue or even what six months.

Speaker 3 (14:56):
Ago I saw you guys play mm hm, awesome show.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
It's well, you know, we're such a great show.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
We're a really white band, you know, like I'm comprised
of mostly white people. Sometimes we get you know, like
like Teresa plays Berry Sack, she's half Chinese, and I
think that's maybe the amount of diversity that we have currently. Yeah,
And but the funny thing about ska music though, like
you know, it's it's interesting that you say it was

(15:23):
too white for you because it originated you know, I
don't think I have to tell you guys that it
originated in Jamaica. Yeah, And and that's something that I
didn't have. I hadn't appreciated. I understood. I did a
report on it, but I didn't think I had, like
I don't think I had a full appreciation of it.
And you know, I've had that debate in my head
about like, am I appropriating something by playing this genre

(15:45):
of music? And I think the important thing is that
you're respecting it and that you respect where it comes
from and you acknowledge it and you're not just like
saying this is all me, this is all coming from me.
You know, I did all this. It's like no, like,
none of this would be happening if it weren't for
Toots and the Maytals and Peter Tosh and things like that.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
So I feel like the general view of SKA is
that it is a very white music music form, and
like at least third Wave probably going into cow Polypomona
and learning about music. That's that's what I believe. That's
what I had known about it. So it's nice to
appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
It does have ties to like you know, like Orange
County and for better or for worse, like there's a
really good, thriving community of like like like that SKA,
like the white ska is not just for white people,
like it, I know what you're talking about, Like I'm
simple of oversimplifying, but like this it's really for weirdos.
At the end of the day, it's for people who

(16:42):
feel like they don't fit in. And that's the best
part about it. It's like it gives that that genre
of music gives people permission to have fun and just
be who they are. Like even like the signature dance move,
which is called the skank is like yeah, it's about
really not getting it right. It's about like, you know,
just kind of going out there and trying and like
joining in with people and like there, I don't know,
you guys probably know this, but I'm gonna share with

(17:04):
for people who don't know who might be listening that
Like instead of a mosh pit at like a SKA show,
you have what's called a skank pit, which effectively functions
the same way, but it's like you're just dancing around
really goofy in a circle and there is pushing. There
is like shoving, but no one's like trying to like
deck each other or anything like that. It's kind of
about like getting as much endorphins as you possibly can

(17:24):
while you're listening to like this really like hype music.
I guess yeah, And I really do feel like Scott
at least the third wave like that we're talking about,
like the white version is like really only to be
appreciated live. It's so funny, Like I don't find myself
listening to third wave outside of like the live setting

(17:47):
because it just is like, Okay, it's fun, but like
it's only reminding me of times that I was out
there dancing and like enjoying this, Like the horns just
glaring in your face where they don't even need to
be micd and they're just like boom hitting you like
a wall.

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah, it's communal, it is.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
I definitely agree with that. I don't casually listen to
SKA like in my office because it's You're right, it is.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
It is better appreciated live. You have a reputation to keep, Kurt,
do I have a reputation keep? No?

Speaker 6 (18:18):
Whenever I listened to SKA in the office, I just
get up and start dancing around a nice little five
minutes skank around the office, and then you know, you
get back and you sit down.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
You gotta you gotta write it in your teens calendar.
It's like, oh, Adams is skank break, which is which
could be problematic in like Southeast Asia.

Speaker 3 (18:38):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (18:39):
I'm skanking, I'm having a skank break.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
You're a kindergarten teacher.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
What got you into ska? Like, what was the was
the live show setting? Because you you probably came up
in the live music scene like early two thousands, mid
two thousands when you were first exposed to music, so
like kind of the scene that was in southern California.
But what was the thing that like hooked you?

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yeah, I think I wasn't super into ska music. In fact,
I remember a friend in middle school showing me the
Boss Tones. I was like, I don't I don't like it.
That's like I actually didn't like it. I was like,
this sounds weird to me. I was into like led
Zeppelin and like you know, like Black Sabbath and stuff
at the time, so I was like, that's the only

(19:26):
Like I was very elitist about it too. I think
you all go through a phase like that like that yeah, yeah,
and like so then when he showed me that, I
was like, what the hell is this? And then I
feel bad. I actually went back and apologized to that
friend like years later. I was like, hey, like I'm
clearly like he had seen that I was in scott
It's like, I'm sorry I made you feel so bad
about your music.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Ta He's like, actually, I should be apologizing to you.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
You came out of exactly you came out of discuss it.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
But I think like I saw the I saw a
real big fish lie because my friend wanted to go
see them, and I was like, okay, I didn't know
any of their songs, and it was a good live show.
I mean, I had a great time. I think what
did it for me? Like I remember being in college
getting in freshman year, and I had like tried to
do the band thing in high school, which worked out. Okay.
What we ended up sounding like in high school was

(20:17):
kind of like a mixture of red hot Chili peppers
and three eleven and just like funk rock kind of
stuff Like I could show you, I could probably find
recordings to show you.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
That's gonna be our intermission music for the So make
sure you send that.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
I send it. I'll send it. Yeah, I think it's
only the night. Such a stare rough. I had that band,

(21:10):
and then I got to college and I was like
trying to figure out what I was gonna do musically.
And I remember being in my dorm like working on
like because at that time, you know, like that's when
I wasn't I went to college at twenty twelve, so
there there was like the folk indie thing happening at
the time, like Mumford and Sons.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Stop stop hey, clap yeah ship.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yes, yeah yeah, so that was happening. I was like,
I was also like interning for this like pop singer
songwriter duo thing. So I started thinking, okay, you know,
and I actually I had listened still a great album
to this day, Uh Jason maraz As We Sing, We Dance,
We Steal Things is actually just a really well produced album.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
This is getting too white, sorry, but no good.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
But the horns and all that stuff, it was like
it was really good. And so I started thinking, Okay,
I'm gonna I'm gonna start trying to do the singer
songwriter thing, and like it felt like the easiest thing
to do when I didn't have a formed band. I
was like, oh, I could just like be like a
solo artist and try to do that sort of thing.
And I didn't have like a multi track recording set
up really at the time, Like I think I was

(22:12):
using this program called Mixcraft and like not paying for it.
So I would have to like record the multi tracks,
and then I would like I wouldn't be able to
bounce it because that was blocked behind a paywall. So
I had to go into like the PC and use
what's called the stereo mix recording in that, and like
I would just play the recording and then record it
on like the voice memo app in the computer, and

(22:34):
that would be like my bounce. And so I made
like a couple of singer songwriter like recordings at that time,
and I was trying to sing like like really whispery
like you cat my eye, like really like like singer
songwriter y like breathe, and just like didn't work like it,
Like everything I tried. It was so frustrating, like nothing

(22:54):
I did felt like a hit. And so I remember
one time, I think I like went home for a
weekend and I had been given or maybe from that
real Big Fish show I went to all those years ago.
I had like a live DVD that maybe they were
giving out for free or something of like them playing
and I like just watched it. I don't know even
know what possessed me to like put it in. And
I texted my friend Ryan, who's like the drummer in

(23:15):
thek Originals now, and I was like, Hey, what if
we did like a ska band? This Like this just
looks like really fun, you know, like like Theyoel look
like they're having a great time. Yeah, And he's like, nah, man,
that's there's like way too many people involved, Like you're
it's the logistics will never work. It's like he's just
like pipooed it left and right, and I to this
day he still argues that this is not what happened.
But I was like, okay, well whatever, And so I

(23:37):
started kept trying to do like the indie singer songwriter thing.
Did a couple of songs with him because he was
like my producer at the time, and I would like
go out to his college dorm at USC and we
would like work on stuff. And then one day he
like says, hey, dude, I think we should make it
like a family friendly SKA band, like you know, we
could like pitch ourselves to Disney or like, you know,
there's I think the aquabats were like on Yogaba Gabba

(23:59):
or something at the time. And I was like, dude,
that was literally my idea and he's like, no, it
wasn't and I was like, yes, it was. I said that,
and you said it was going to be too many,
all the all the reasons that I had named previously
and like and he just he just he's like whatever, man,
and then we just moved on. I was like, Okay,
I guess we're doing this.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
I have a photo you holding this statement that says
that you hate Scott and with so he was he.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
Actually not I know you're joking, but like he actually
was the one that really liked the genre. So I
was surprised when he like didn't want to do it. Yeah.
So then when it finally like he decided he wanted
to do it, I was like, all right, I'm in.
And at this time I was so frustrated with my
own like songwriting and my own identity. It felt like
once he had a vision for like, oh this is

(24:41):
gonna be the band that we're doing and this is
like the criteria, this is like it felt like, oh,
I can like remove myself from this a little bit,
my identity, Like I'm just gonna write for this project,
and it's not gonna be mine, right, I'm gonna let
I'm gonna let Ryan do all the planning and like
the branding and all this stuff, all the stuff i'd
hate thinking about. I'm just gonna write songs for this probably,

(25:01):
like and then I think I wrote like two songs
that were very much geared toward like that vibe, like
the kid friendly, friendly kid ska stuff. That's I think
the first song I wrote, if you want to go
look for it, is called War Monkeys, and it's just
a song about being monkeys and a monkey town that
gets attacked by a pack of bad boons and the like, yeah,

(25:22):
they have to rebuild after their bad Boon attack and
it's a song about overcoming adversity and uh yeah, but anyway, Uh,
that's it. We just kind of took off from there,
I think within a year of like us getting musicians
to come play and like we went and played cal
poly Pomona's Battle of the Bands. That was hosted in
the Stables, and I think we won third place, behind

(25:46):
a couple other really good bands that deserve to be
up there. I'm getting a really long winded here, but
the first prize was was that you get to record
an EP with this guy named Kyle Burzell, who was
like the guy at the time at the school that
was like he knew all his audio stuff and I
think was later like dethroned by Sam Smiley, like when

(26:06):
he graduated. Like that's like the it was like the
Sam Smiley type, you know, like he knew his stuff.
And so when we finished, he's like, hey, you know,
I really liked your guys' set. I'd like to still
produce an.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
EP for you guys anyway.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
And so that's when we went in and recorded I
think like six or fucking but I should say like
five and a half songs in twenty thirteen. And then
from there we just kind of like played one to
two shows a month in like the because we were
at Pomona, so we could go down to like oc
which is where a lot of that was happening and
go play. Yeah, and then within a year of us

(26:39):
getting together, we actually ended up on like Van's Warped
tour because Ryan had a friend from usc that was
like in music management that she was like she was
studying music management. So she decided to be our manager
for free. And then like was NonStop like emailing Kevin
Lyman telling him that he needs to book us on
the tour, and so then we did. He's like, fine,
you can play three days. You can do Pomona, Mountain

(27:02):
View and Ventura on the Kevin Says stage. And so
that's what we did, and that was like a year
into our existence and it was like a dream come true.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (27:12):
What was the name of your group at that time?

Speaker 3 (27:14):
It was called the Ska Originals because back in the
high school band we had written one ska song and
called it ak Originality because it was a song, a
ska song about being original, and so we were like, oh,
if we ever made a ska band, we would call
it the Originals, And then we did, and then like
regretted it for the rest of the time because everybody,
everybody would read the name and be like what is it?

(27:35):
The skorringles, like what is that? It just looks like
a mess. It looks like you're like stroking out when
you read it and a couple of times I like
got in my head about it and it was like
we should change it, and then it just we've tried
a couple of times and it just never stuck. So
we're just we're just that now the scary Jinals scary?

Speaker 2 (27:55):
How many different iterations of the originals has there been
since the original inception of the band, like twenty twelve.
You say, so when you guys first kind of kicked off.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Yeah, we had me. It was a my friend Josh
who was in our high school band. Our bassis was
this guy Kurt Swayed. You guys probably know Kurt Swade. Yeah,
he was into Sky, but he like he was like, yeah,
I'm going to play bass. I think he was just
kind of like whatever, I'm down playing. And then uh,
then we had uh so it was me Josh, so

(28:26):
two guitars, bass, drums, Ryan doing backing vocals with me.
And at this time I still didn't really consider myself
a singer. And then uh we had like one horn player.
We had our friend John who was in the dorms
with me. He just was right across the hall from me.
So it was like the laziest thing I could have done.
I was like, hey, you want to play in a
ska man, And so then he played with us and

(28:48):
our first show was just our only horn we had
was the sacks and so but I remember that first show.
I had already started kind of recruiting people because our
are soon to be trombone player showed up to that
show and was like checking us out. He then invited
his brother to come play trumpet, who was like a
UCLA guy. We had heard about him and thought he
was like always all mysterious and cool, and then he

(29:09):
ends up being just another goofball.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
Like yeah, Brian probably, how is his brother's name, David?

Speaker 3 (29:14):
That started pretty quick. That was like the twenty thirteen
version of the band?

Speaker 4 (29:18):
Can I Brian and David really quick?

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
When I've seen you guys play, those two are like
they're like probably the most animated people on the stage.
Like there's something I could not stop watching them. And
maybe it's because they're brothers, but like just like they're
such cartoonish, like cartoonish the fun up there, like and

(29:43):
I'm meeting that as all the compliments. I mean, like, yeah,
they kill it.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
I was so again, like you say, it's it's easy
to to like hear that. I mean, I'm not I know,
it's like I appreciate the compliment, but at one point
I was like, this is not good because they were
like so goofy and so white, and like, you know,
if you didn't know any better, you would have thought
that they were like gonna sell you like the Book
of Mormon or something, and like it was like I

(30:11):
just most of the time like I don't see what
they're doing. So when I would see a video back,
I'd be like, oh, oh no, what are we doing.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
We gotta we gotta embrace the cringe man four man.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
It's like it's they're so enthusiastic about it, and if
it feels really genuine.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think that the things that you the things that
you find are cringe though, Like so a lot of
the things that you find are are cringey. It's just
you projecting your own insecurities on things that are actually
pretty cool and right, the whole theme, the whole theme
of what you've been talking about, and this is something
I've been thinking about music for a long time, Brandon.
It's like people take themselves so seriously with music, and

(30:52):
like you were getting burnt out when you're doing the
indie singer songwriter thing. I've been in that same possession.
You get burnt out and then you kind of like
lose that frenetic energy and that that the thing that
captivates you in the first place, right, And then you
go to a show and you have fun and you're like, oh,
this is what is supposed to be the entire time,
and like I respect that so much. And when you

(31:13):
go to I don't know, like listeners, viewers, if you
go to a SKA show, I remember we used to
go see was it Suburban Legends back?

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, two thousand and five, two thousand and four, they've
been around for a while. They're still doing it too.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
And they're still they're still playing the most fun shows.
They're most fun shows, and like those are the shows
that you remember, and there's something to it that, like,
like you were saying, how SKA is is a is
a genre that you you have to go see it
live to really understand it, to like experience it, and
like I think that's that's such an important element of
like just modern music maybe throughout music history that like

(31:48):
we've lost and hopefully it's coming back. I don't know,
have you seen like a resurgence of like new fans
coming to the genre.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Yeah, well, I think like when when I came to it,
I didn't. I didn't appreciate the things that I do
now about it, Like I didn't. I didn't all the
things that I had said earlier about it being like
a genre for weirdos and people that just want to
let loose and have fun and forget where they are
for like an hour and a half or whatever. Like
I didn't appreciate that at the time. I was just
trying to find something to do. Like I was just

(32:19):
trying to find like a place that I fit, you know,
and could feel good like playing the music. And I
mean it was pretty clear pretty fast that it was
the most fun that I had ever had on stage,
but I still kind of felt like we were a joke,
you know, and and and there was that like getting
in your head about it and taking it too seriously.
And that's ultimately like cutting like way far forward. That's

(32:40):
kind of what led to us like slowing down a
lot as we got to this place where I I
was like, is this how I really want to be known?
Like is this how I want to like, is this
the music I want to make? There's so much to
I have. Like when you were talking just now, I
had like five separate different thoughts about like the taking
yourself too seriously, the forgetting about the fun part of it.

(33:01):
I recently had a conversation with Sam Smiley from cal
Polack Pomona. We you know, we've been in and out
of communication over the years, but I sent him an
old video of us playing. It was a trio gig.
It was my band Unlucky Sonny, like my passion project
that has kind of started back in twenty seventeen, and
it has been kind of like, you know, just silently

(33:22):
in the background this whole time. Yeah, but I showed
him a video we played at like a Fullerton bookstore
thing and it was just Ryan on drums, him on bass,
Me on guitar, and vocals and then everyone's saying so
it was like a three part harmony situation. We covered
Heard at Races by Doctor Dogg, like their version of it,
because that's a cover that they do, so we covered

(33:42):
their cover architecture heal think you baby. Yeah, Yeah, I
love the original too, it's great. But I sent him
the video. In a recent text message, and I was like,
he's like, dude, we fucking rip And I was like, yeah,
we do. And I told him, I was like, we
were so concern earned about not sucking that we didn't
appreciate how good we.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Were, like how cool we were.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
Like it was just we were so worried about all
the negative, like the negative, the possible negative perceptions that
people might have. Yeah, that we didn't we forgot to
just own it, like and we did. But it was like,
I mean, you know, even the performance that I sent him, yeah,
it ripped, but like you can see the insecurity, you
can see the like need for approval.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
And and he's like, yeah, dude, he said, insecurity is
a hard thing to get over. Yeah, and I and
he's still yeah, you know, I sense that he's still
working on getting over that and with music and stuff.
And for me getting close, I'm twenty nine now, I'm
getting I'm gonna be thirty in October. I told him.
I was like, you know, for me, Sam, I had
to kind of I beat myself up sometimes about like

(34:47):
not having realize certain things sooner in life. But I
was like, for me, it was never gonna happen any sooner,
like I had to go through the things that I
went through before I realized that all that shit didn't matter. Yeah,
And I was like, you know, so I don't give
a crap anymore about like how my music is perceived
by I mean, I want people to like it, but
like they don't. That's that's honestly fine, Like it's totally fine.

(35:09):
I feel good enough now about what I have to
say and what I want to do that like I'm
it's worth making at this point. And I was like,
you know, I think I'm free of insecurity. And then
I took it back. I was like, I think my actually,
my insecurities have just moved to other places. Now. It's
like now it's like will I ever own a house?
Will I ever ABC? It's like the music is like
that's that's the fun thing now, you know. Like back

(35:32):
then there, especially being a music student, you put so
much pressure on yourself. Yeah, to have something to show
for it.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
You got to learn a lot of stuff too, And
and I don't think academia helps in any way that's
productive in this sense of like you being like fully
realized in who you are as a person and a musician,
because like I feel like we've all dealt with that
and unpacking like your own personal ego and baggage. Like
you were saying that cover video that you sent up

(36:03):
part of Races, which I would love to see that,
but sure, that's not I'm going to make not an
easy song to cover all this harmony parts either.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Yeah, it was. It was tricky. I'll make a note
of all the things that you guys want to see
after we're done, so you can do whatever you want
with it. But uh, yeah, that that one was tricky thing. Sorry,
all the things, oh all, yeah, any requests you.

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Make it point Leo though, with music academia, like because
you you came from community college. I came from community college. Adam,
did you come from community college too?

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:39):
Then after community college and then back to cal Pol.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
That's right, I remember that, Braden. Were you Did you
ever go through community college or did you go straight
to cal Poly?

Speaker 3 (36:48):
I went straight to cal Poly because as as a
I graduated high school and I was seventeen, and I
was like, do I I had gotten I did pretty
good in high school, and I was like do I
I had gotten early admission to STSU for business admin?
And I was like, oh, that sounds pretty good. I
like San Diego and I, you know, at the big

(37:09):
conversation at that point in my life was like do
you choose between the thing you really want to do
or do you play it safe and find a way
to make money? And I had all but made my
decision when I visited cal Poly Pomona's campus and I
was like, actually, this is really beautiful. Oh there's a
recording studio here, Damn Dan. And then I think I
had a moment where my wisdom preceded me and I

(37:29):
was like, I have to give myself the chance to
do what I want to do. Yeah, So I decided
to go to cal Poly and try to make the
music thing happen. And I convinced myself that if if
the actual making music didn't work out, at least I
would learn skills that would allow me to have a
career in like audio engineering or something like that.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, well, I would say that you made it. I mean,
like whatever that definition does, I think it changes from
when you're like seventeen eighteen years old. But like if
if you were to grab yourself now and talk to
the sixteen seventeen year old Branden and show him your pedigree,
your skills that you learn your craft at just being

(38:11):
a musician, he would be blown away. So like in
that sense, you know. And also we haven't even talked about.
You're constantly gigging, like on the daily at during a
live show at seat World, which is like more than
I'm gonna say this, Like I know a lot of

(38:31):
musicians probably gigging more than any other musician that I
know currently right now. And that's amazing, dude.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
Thank you. It does. I do think about that all
the time, like when I especially when I get into
a place where I'm like feeling it or something, I'm like,
you know, not happy, and I go, dude, if you
had told yourself even five years ago that you're doing,
you'd be doing the stuff that you're doing right now,
you you would be blown away.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
It's it's funny when you watch like movies from like
the eighties and the nineties and they're like, we got
to get the band back together, and then they like
cut to one of the musicians and he's playing like
some gig in like a casino or whatever. He's like
doing the backing for this band, and they're like, we
gotta save him from this, but now we're like, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
That's a regular gig.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
You're constantly using your music, you're paying your bills.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Like now it's like, what more do you want? Man?
Another thing you gotta unlearn, man, all that toxic stuff
of like our relationship with like we're just sold in
packages in music that as a commodity, and like, yeah,
sure you should be able to pay your bills and
put a roof over your head, And that's awesome when
you can. When you get to a level like you're
ap rating and not only like you're able to commercially

(39:42):
take advantage of like your craft and your abilities, but
you're also just like a phenomenally great songwriter too, you
are to say yeah. And the first experience I had
with it, we had the Songwriter Showcase. I think I
was in your group for the first time I had
ever done it before. And that's what I also learned
about your love for Scott because I think I was
playing a guitar part and you stop me and you're like,

(40:02):
I like what you're playing, but do you know how
to do a I think you asked me to do
a skank like and I was like, oh, And then
I learned more about like, but you taught I think
you taught me how to skank properly.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
Grat And I want to ask you something because you
do you are actively playing music for your job.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Right, Yeah, do you feel like you've.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Sacrificed some of your creative or artistic integrity when you
make that part of your living.

Speaker 3 (40:29):
I worry about that all the time because, like I
definitely have limited time to invest in like the just
the passion projects that you know, whether it's Unlucky Sonny
or this originals. Sometimes I don't even have time for that.
And then there's you know, there's like other things that
I've always wanted to do and try and like you know,
and I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is great. You know.

(40:50):
Twitch streaming was like another thing I wanted to kind
of like get into. And then you know, it's just
very little time for that sort of thing. But to
answer your question, yeah, I worry about that all the time.
But that being said, and this is actually it's a
double edged sword because in my job, I actually do
get a lot of fulfillment, like playing live in front
of crowds, like getting to like kick around and jump around,

(41:12):
and like you know, like move my body and play
and sing like all that, Like it gives me such
a high. And then the fact that now I'm in
this place too where I'm actually writing the shows, like
arranging the music and music directing also very fulfilling for me.
I get a lot of fulfillment out of that. But

(41:33):
there is still that side of me that's like, you
know that you have this other stuff that you want
to say, that you want to make that is like
and you know it's good, like like no insecurity anymore.
Like I know that there's stuff out there that people
would appreciate, stuff in here that people would appreciate, and
it's like you just got to make the time to
do it. And it's hard sometimes when you don't have

(41:55):
the financial incentive. You're like, oh, man, I just spent
the whole day doing whatever, and uh, do I want
to go sit down for like cause I know, I
know me. I was just talking about it earlier before
we started recording. When I sit down to start working
on music, I'm going to be there for like four
to six to eight hours, depending on what I'm working on.

(42:15):
And I'm like, do I really want to sacrifice the
rest of my evening to that, or would I rather
hang out with my girlfriend and watch like Steven Universe
or something like that, that that's gonna you know, fulfill
me in a different way. It is hard to decide,
especially when there's still like the insecurity is not quite
as strong as it used to be, but there is

(42:36):
anxiety surrounding will I ever do it? Like will I ever?
Will I ever finish it? And so if I sit
down and I and I don't finish it in one sitting,
am I gonna come back to it?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (42:46):
You know, like is it worth the eight hours that
I'm gonna put in and then never come back to
that song?

Speaker 4 (42:50):
Oof?

Speaker 2 (42:50):
You know that's such a bit. That's such a hard topic. Man.
I feel like it's a love hate relationship with music.
Like I'll look at my guitar and sometimes I'll be
on fire and I'll like be able to rint three
or four songs in a week, you know what I'm
really happy with. And then other times I won't touch
the guitar for a month, you know, just because you
get busy and then your feet and then you kind

(43:11):
of feel defeated and deflated when you don't and you're like, oh,
I wish I had more time. But with that being said,
I think even though we all kind of go through that,
you're in a position where you're constantly in and around
music like abundantly. So whether or not you're like working
on the the itch that you're trying to scratch, you're

(43:33):
still honing your craft in a sense that's that you
can use somewhere else. But that the fulfillment thing's so tough.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Man, Yeah, actually makes me feel little better. You're right,
there are things that true this. If I hadn't been
doing any of this stuff, I wouldn't have learned. And
then also certain insecurities that by doing this, I realized, hey,
you have you have what it takes to make this,
you know, like why not do that? Put that same
level of effort into something for you and it's gonna
be great. Like that's encouraging. That's an encouraging thing that

(44:02):
wouldn't have probably done had not been given these opportunities.
But like I said, doubles sources.

Speaker 7 (44:07):
You know, people never ask me, Kurt, why does it

(44:28):
take so long for you to release an episode? And
to that never asked hypothetical question, I have one answer.
It's hard for me to focus. There's a lot of
work that goes into an episode, and it can take
hours to complete the whole process. As a father with
add and a full time job, I often deal with burnout,
emotional and physical exhaustion, to the point that I find

(44:51):
myself struggling to navigate a seemingly endless list of tasks
and responsibilities. Rarely can I find the time to stop,
breathe and find my center before committing an hour of
my time to some task, whether I enjoy it or not.
You may remember an episode we did a while ago
with a man named Brian Rudy. He goes by Dudadius,

(45:14):
and in addition to being a phenomenal Emmy Award winning composer,
he creates incredible synth driven soundscapes. Recently, he released an
app called Spindles, and its entire purpose is to support sleep, focus,
relieve anxiety, and just relax through music, soundscapes, noise, and

(45:36):
binaral beats. You're listening to one of his tracks now.
Spindles allows you to create your own playlists or find
one of the pre existing playlists.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
To try out.

Speaker 7 (45:47):
I use the Calm and Meditate playlists for morning meditations
before I begin my busy day when I remember to
do them, of course, but I find that zoning out
with the focus playlists is extremely helpful for my more
demanding tasks. And there's more. Do you like ambient sounds
with your music? Well, many tracks contain additional sounds for

(46:10):
a more complex and engaging soundscape. The track Primordial Embers
has the soothing sounds of a crackling fire. A warm
Wave Blanket has the ebb and flow of ocean waves
gently cresting on a northern California shore. Shepherd's stream features

(46:30):
well a stream. These sounds are completely adjustable for whatever
your preferences and comfortable. So if you need to inject
some calm and focus into your day, get Spindles. It
helped me focus and center my view, and I think
you can do the same for you. Try Spindles for
free for fourteen days if you like it, use the

(46:52):
code just one song for a discount. That's just one song.
One word.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
About the way you can do?

Speaker 8 (47:09):
How about change? Are you familiar with Rick Biata?

Speaker 2 (47:21):
I'm sure you are on YouTube, real famous YouTube.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Maybe Yeah, I mean I.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Think what you want. Yeah, he's he's I guess he's controversial,
but he he by. I was just talking to Ricky.
Uh he he does some Oh.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
I know this guy, I've seen him. Sorry, I was
just googled him real quick. Yeah, yeah, you gotta know him. Everybody.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
There's there's like three quintessential YouTube music music gurus. He's
one of them. The guitar guy from like Sweden is
another one, the tall that's so like soft spoken. Uh So,
I was talking Ricky. Ricky does some production for us
on the show, and he used to play in my
old band Castle Pines, and I was talking to him

(48:05):
and he he was talking about how this same thing,
Like I think it's just a recurring theme for any
musician in twenty twenty four, maybe even before, of like
the fulfillment aspect of it, the time, the dedication, what
does making it look like? And Rick Biotto didn't get
he got his first record deal when he was forty one.

(48:27):
Who he didn't have a hit song until he's forty seven,
and now he has a successful YouTube channel at you know,
fifty six fifty seven. Not saying that and that is
a lucky, lucky, like one in a million kind of
thing that happens right like the majority of the most
amazing musicians that you've never heard of, lived their life
in obscurity, but somehow influenced this continued conversation. Like you

(48:51):
mentioned Toots in the may Tolls earlier. Like there for
any genre of music or any kind of tradition of music,
there is a version of the Toots and the Mayitalls
and others that are like live in obscurity that influence
the work and like we're still talking about and inspires
us and gives you goosebumps and makes you inspired to continue.

(49:14):
And I think that's the important thing. Like whether or
not it's commercially successful, critically successful, the fulfillment part, I
think is the most important part, and that we're continuing
this conversation. And dude, you're doing it man, like you're
I love going through Instagram and seeing when your stuff
pops up. I get fucking stoked. I think you posted
something over summer and like you were ripping on the guitar.

(49:36):
By the way, viewers listeners to this podcast, please go
follow uh Braden on Instagram because you post some really
awesome photos of the actual show itself. What's the name
of the show that you're that you're currently on?

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Rid It just ended but the summer show we did
at sea World was called BMX Blast, And when I
first heard that, I was like, are we sponsored by
like Taco Bell or something? Energy? We were sponsored by
body Armor, like the Energy drink, which ironic, I don't
know if I'm no one's gonna hear this, but people

(50:10):
will hear, but no one about this damn would hear.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
You were correct in your first assumption, right, that funny?
It's it's a bit. It's a bit, dude. You gotta
keep the bit. Nobody. We have like two people in
Sri Lanka that listen to us. Man, you people on
Twitch right now, It's okay.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
I don't know that because they didn't give us. They
didn't give us as single. We didn't get any were
the show said powered by body Armour, and we didn't
get any body armour. That would have been really nice
because we could have used electro lights several times meant
more than several countless times throughout the season. But anyway,
it's called BMX Blast. It just ended. But it was

(50:50):
like a summer show at sea World that was a
basically a pop punk live pop punk set accompanied by
or I should say more. We were accompanying the BMX
stunts that were occurring behind us on stage in time
with like the music and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
And it was like a nineties fever dream. From what
I saw, it was like bright pink like nineties decor.
It looked fucking rad.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
We did have like a couple of people that they
claimed to be like actual performers or whatever, drummers. What
one guy, I guess like, uh was friends with the
lead singer of Jimmy Eat. World. I forget what his
name is Jimmy. I don't think it's Jimmy unfortunately, but
he was World. It might be James, it might be

(51:39):
James uh So, I don't know, but he sent a
video of us playing you know the Middle, which is
like our was our opener encloser. I'm sorry, I was
just reading Kurt's comment in the to himself. Someone sent
him the video of that, and he commented back, was like, Wow,
it's so cool to see people covering my song still

(52:00):
to this day. And I was like, well, I'm glad
he didn't decide to sue us, because we definitely didn't
get like as far as I know, I don't think
we got like the you know clearance to use the
songs or the world.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Old Sea World dropping the ball on music license.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Man if black this is just didn't shut them down.
Do you really think I'm going to I'm.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Going to retract that. I'm going to assume they got
everything they needed legally to make sure that we recovered
because I had no part in that process.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Okay, but how did you guys pick up the songs?

Speaker 3 (52:31):
So that that was a playlist that our executive producer
and my like boss uh he was, I guess considered
the he he came up with the concept, I guess.
So he hired on his friend, long term friend and collaborator.
Excuse me, I'm doing the old guy thing where you
burke you talked through a burp. He brought on his

(52:51):
friend and so anyway, the executive producer made the playlist
and and was like, do you you know he let
me choose it, Like He's like, do you feel like
anything's missing? Like whatever? And I had a couple suggestions
and implemented a couple where they hadn't thought of a song.
I was like, oh, this would work perfect for this
moment and things like that. But it is a nineties
fever dream of a set list and production and all that.

(53:14):
Can you walk us through some of the set list, Yeah,
I could probably remember it. It starts with the middle,
moves into moves into there you Go. It moves into
into Deep by some forty one.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
Yes, yes, because I'm in too deep.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
And I'm trying that one. Yeah, and then it goes
into all Star by smash Mouth. Smash I arranged a
pop punk version of that show oh yeah, or of
that song I'm sorry so like it didn't feel like
the smash Mouth version. I wanted it to be a
little bit more like in tandem with the rest of

(53:52):
the feel of the show. And then after that it
was and now I'm blinking. It was all the small
things of course, and then we went off punk show
without that, and then we went into basket Case, which
is the one that I got to go center stage
and sing on Yes, And then it was we did
it like a band introduction moment for we used a

(54:12):
sugar We're going down as like the band introduction solo
moment where you see that's the video you saw me
playing guitar, and then uh, then it's a punk rock
one on one, which is actually a song that a
lot of people don't know by bowling for soup.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
But it's great.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
It's it's it's a parody of pop punk songs. And
then uh, it was the anthem. Then it was a
reprise of all the Small Things, and then a reprise
of the middle. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
Wow, you locked us through the middle a reprise.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Yeah, and I'm pretty proud of that one.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
A lot of cool stuff, very meta that you played
the middle and the beginning and closing of the set.
I thought that was artistically it was a great choice.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
Oh, thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, it is
a sand No, that was not actually my decision. I
actually kind of when I first heard that, I was
like not really wanted to do it, or not that
I didn't want to. The weird part for me was
where I was cool with the sandwich of the middle
at the beginning and end. That kind of made sense.
I think what it was is I was like, why

(55:17):
are we also reprising all the small things? That was
my initial thought. It felt like, okay, you know, all
the small things should just be the closer then, because
that's like the anthem of a generation. Yeah, But then
we did it, and this is a great testament to
like you never know until you actually sit down and
do it, Like you can never imagine what things are
fully going to be, just conceptually. Once I finished it

(55:38):
and we put it in the show, it felt like
it really worked, and I was you know, that's why
you have collaborators, because they're going to tell you things
and think of things that you wouldn't have thought of.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
Yeah, I really wish I could have seen this show.
How where so like I used to go to I
grew up in San Diego and I used to go
to seek a lot. It's probably changed the whole bunch.
I was born down there. But where was this in
let's say, in proximity to Shamou.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
I think it was on the other side of the park.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Okay, so by the Anheuser bush where the horses were.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
I didn't see horses when I was there.

Speaker 4 (56:15):
He doesn't know his SeaWorld, lore Leo.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
So we were in what's called nat we were in
what's called Nautilus Amphitheater, and so it was the closest landmark.
And see here's the thing now, so that now they
have a bunch of.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
Roller coasters, I don't think they've probably had that Poseidon
roller coaster one, which was like the first one they
put in there. You mean Atlantis Atlantis, that's.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
The atlant Yeah, it is pretty close to the boat
drop some nautical theme.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Ironically, I haven't been to Sea World since the nineties,
and you're reprising the nineties. I love that. It's it's
so wild to me that it's like, uh, there's a
whole generation of like gen zers that are really in
the nineties music and like pop punk, and I don't know,
just makes me feel old and happy at the same time.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
It's well, I mean it kind of makes sense, like
and it seems like it's like entirely too soon for
this to be happening in our lives. But like it's
like my parents when they were astounded that I was
listening to like Foreigner, yeah, and like you know, like
eighties like the cars and stuff like that, They're like,
what this is my music? Why are you putting this on?
You know?

Speaker 2 (57:21):
What was the what was the reaction? Like, I'm sure
you saw a bunch of families go through, did you
did you what was the reaction you saw from the audience.

Speaker 3 (57:29):
Yeah, So it was pretty consistent actually in that the
adults were hyped because they're like, this is the like
the between you know, thirty to forty five year olds
were like, this is like my music. This brought me back.
And some there was people that would come up and
they'd be like crying because they like, I feel like
you brought me home, Like I missed this. Where's all
the where's all the positivity these days? Like I missed

(57:49):
these songs. And then the kids, the kids, you know,
either some of them would know the songs because you know,
for the reasons we just talked about, like they just
got into it somehow, but then they would like or
if they didn't know the songs, they would just be
hyped because they'd never seen a freaking rock show before
and they're just like losing their mind because they don't
know what to do with all these like neurons that

(58:11):
are firing in their brains, and so they would come
up and just be like losing their crap like it
was crazy.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah, that's awesome, great point, man, I think so cool.
Whatever the like medium that kids are exposed to music,
if it's a pop punk nineties reprisal at SeaWorld and
it's the first interaction they have with a live rock band, like,
fuck yeah, dude, wherever it happens, like you probably, I know,

(58:39):
you inspired a bunch of kids going through there.

Speaker 3 (58:44):
That was something that I actually would say because I
was I was technically the music director, so I made
the show, but then when I was performing in it,
I was kind of like responsible for keeping everyone like
going where they needed to go and things like that.
And like, man, like if I saw something during the
show where like someone wasn't you know, like I don't know,
doing something that they should be doing, like footwork or something,

(59:06):
or they just weren't their head wasn't in it or something.
One of the biggest motivational speeches I would give is
just like, hey, like, this is going to be a
lot of kids' first rock shows that they ever see.
You think about how many of those kids are going
to grow up to be musicians because they came and
saw the show. This is going to be a core
memory for them, you know. And I think about that
all the time, and sometimes I'd be like I'd mess

(59:27):
up during a show. There was one show where I
broke not one but two of my strings during the
show and I had to figure out how to get
through it. And I was like beating myself up because
I knew I should have changed them sooner. But I
was like, ah, it's fine, it's fine. And then like
all these kids still came up because we would have
like a photo op at the end, so that was

(59:47):
a chance to meet the audience, and they would come
up and be like, oh hyped, and I'm in my
head about it. I'm like, ah, you know, like I
you know, this was the worst show I ever played,
all these things, and the thing that would bring me
out is remembering that, like it's about these kids. Like
these kids like it doesn't matter how I feel, I'm
so secondary to this experience, Like it's not about me.

(01:00:09):
It's about the audience for one, and it's about the kids,
Like I don't know for me like that, that's what
would take me out of like my my like being
down in the dumps or something. If I was like
it was like my fourth show of the day and
I was just exhausted. Ye. Then like they the kids
coming up at the end and seeing how stoked they are,
like like can't contain themselves. I was like, you know,

(01:00:30):
I'm gonna I'm gonna take myself a little slice of that,
Like I hope you don't mind, but I'm gonna like
that I needed it, you know, Like there's times where
I really needed it because it was just like a
bad day, you know, and at the end of the day,
remembering it was about them was what got me through sometimes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, it gives you context to what we do, to
what you're doing, like the same whatever your inspiration was
when you first picked up a guitar, I'm sure you
had a very similar experience, you know, whatever it and
be able to give that to a new generation is
like you're you're kind of like teaching them how to

(01:01:06):
make fire Man.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
That's pretty cool, thanks, dude. Yeah, I really hope. I mean,
And we'd get kids all the time that would come
up and be like I played drums or I play
guitar or whatever, and I'd get people asking me questions
and I would always be like, yo, guys, like they're like,
how do you play like that? And I go, guys,
the secret is writing your solo and playing the same
solo every time, you know, because I can't shred. I

(01:01:28):
can't shred. I was like, I'm gonna find like the
best shortcuts that I can to make whatever I'm playing
sound impressive and do you do that every time? And
that's why it would suck when I broke a string,
because then I couldn't play like the thing that I
had written, So I'd have to improvise on like a
string that I was uncomfortable with, you know, playing my
scale on. Sometimes I'd be like legit, like I'd psych
myself out and be like a half step off from

(01:01:49):
where I needed to be.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
It was just it was rough.

Speaker 4 (01:01:52):
Sometimes you're like, oh, there's some jazz influence going.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Oh my gosh, you see he's playing in a flat
a flat too. That's great as it's a fellow non shredder. Uh,
I'm with you, Yeah, the Barry Mode the man. Yeah, dude.
And not to mention you're in San Diego, bro, Like
San Diego is the most pop punk city in America.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
It was pretty sick. We'd have that. We'd have that
moment too, like the cast, all of us, we'd have
that moment, be like, look where we get to work,
Like you know, we'd be like kind of setting up
for the day to be kind of hot, and then
we'd hear like seagulls flying overhead and like you can
like vaguely hear the sound of like speedboats and like
jet skis going on in the bay, like not too
far away, and like you're like wow, Like we get
to work here and play music for a crowd and

(01:02:38):
you know, make a decent living from it. Like it
you know, it's it's the gratitude bombs come all the time,
and that's important. You can't lose that, like in any
aspect of your life, Like gratitude is the is the
key to life satisfaction. In July, Yeah, I've had office

(01:03:00):
jobs and I'm like, I've never going back, like I've
been on that side of things, and I just, you know,
like I have to remember where I came from sometimes
because I don't want to go back there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
He's burning the roof down now seeing seeing that we're
talking about where he came from. It was good.

Speaker 5 (01:03:16):
I kind of wanted to know what was your.

Speaker 6 (01:03:18):
First memorable show that you went to, since we were
talking about all those kids that are going to see you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Yeah, the first memory I have of going to show
is actually going to see Britney Spears. I think I
was like four. I thought that was great and I
actually saw Aaron Carter open up for her and so
then I became like a massive Aaron Carter stand at
the age of like four or five years old, and
that's listened to all his CDs and stuff. It's pretty crazy.

(01:03:46):
And then and then I got made fun of for it,
and I was like, oh, my friend, you know, my
friend David back in the elementary school, was like, hey, dude,
you got to listen to this, and he handed me
like a good Charlotte CD or something, and that's where
that started, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
So, Dough, how do you think it influenced your music?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
What's that?

Speaker 5 (01:04:06):
How do you think it influenced your music and stage
presence for just.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Music in general, seeing Britney Spears or just concert.

Speaker 6 (01:04:18):
I mean I saw I saw manlive the first time
I went to a show. Oh, and I know that
they really influenced like the way that I performed, the
way that I.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
Write, the way I play.

Speaker 6 (01:04:29):
So I figure, you know, other musicians that go and
see other bands for the first time, that really kind
of sets the structure of oh, this is what's possible
kind of thing if you're in my head.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
So I was wondering, is there anything.

Speaker 6 (01:04:42):
Like that happened with you or now that we're older,
you can like kind of think back and be like, oh, yeah,
this is kind of like how that affected me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
I wouldn't say, I mean, other than getting super into
Aaron Carter and Britney Spears at the same time following
that concert, just because that was like the only music
that I was really exposed too at the time. I think,
like I'm trying to think of I don't think that
that really had a massive influence on me other than
the fact that I kind of got to this place

(01:05:11):
where I knew I wanted to perform. There's this great
video you can find of me on on YouTube somewhere
that my sister put up of me dancing at like
age five to a Britney Spears song, and like our
neighborhood talent show that my parents put on and like
invited all the kids to come perform and stuff. And
I couldn't play any instruments or anything. So I just
knew I wanted to do something, and so I danced.

(01:05:33):
And so I think at that point, like it was
pretty clear looking back on it, that, like I think
I always wanted to be in front of people doing stuff,
you know, and and I was always the kind of
like mom, watch kid, you know I And that's more
tied to like a need for constant like approval.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, a star is born.

Speaker 6 (01:05:55):
I think all of us as musicians need that constant
approval else we're.

Speaker 5 (01:05:58):
Just like, oh, shoot, we do suck as bad as
we think we do.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Yeah, well and then for me too, like it's it
sucks to say, and this is pretty vulnerable. But like
I think I used music, especially like even in college,
you know, like as recent as college, like used it
as a mechanism to gain approval of like people like I.
That was my my in you know, and music to
this day is still always been more of like a

(01:06:24):
way for me to connect with other human beings. Like
I think that's why the doing the solo singer songwriter
thing didn't work out too well, because I like playing
with other people for sure, and but like, yeah, I
think like going into more of like a personal thing,
like I had such a heavy need for like approval
from other people. It's it's it's crazy. It was like

(01:06:45):
an addiction, and music was like one of the more
because I was decent at it. It was like one
of the quickest ways for me to get it, and
so it became I kind of became dependent on it
for that, And so that's kind of what's led to
so much of like my stuff that I've tried not
working is because it was coming from a place of
like I need other people to like this, you know,

(01:07:08):
And that's a it's a cliche, like everyone deals with that, like,
but like in my own personal life, it's not just
about like in a in a music setting. It's like
I was, I still am. I like consider myself a
recovering like approval addict, but like I would use it
all the time as like a mechanism for like I
was the guy. Guys, you're gonna hate this, but like
I in my dorm and freshman year, I was the

(01:07:30):
guy that was like taking my guitar around and like
playing around four people, you know, like just trying to
get their attention.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Bro, we all were I was. I was the same thing. Yeah,
it's there's no no shame in like the trajectory of
you as a person and like for you to have
the wisdom and and and the balls to do it. Yeah,
what did you say, balls?

Speaker 5 (01:07:51):
I did say balls.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
It takes balls to do that for sure, But like
like looking back, you know, like retro retross in retrospect,
you look back and see how you've grown, and I
appreciate your vulnerability in that because it's I think that's
something that's not really talked about amongst musicians. Is like
maybe more and so now because mental health has become
more of a like a forefront in certain ways, but

(01:08:16):
it's not very common and like in in in music circles.
But you're you're right, dude, it's a it's a conversation
that you're having with people, like music is always that
and coming out on the other side of like being
a just an addict for approval, like where you are now,
it's it seems like you're healthy and you're you're kind

(01:08:38):
of working through that and it's inspiring for folks on
the other side too, and maybe for a listener, if
your career in music is any indication of what it
looks like, it's not a straight line to where you
want to be.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
That's totally true. Yeah, this is I think why what
Kurt said to me in the beginning was so appreciate.
It was because I look back on those days and
I go, oh, man, I was I was so like
hungry and thirsty, Like I was thirsty that was like
the word back then, but like for approval, you know,
I was like looking for I wanted to make friends.
I mean, I care about making friends. I care about

(01:09:13):
meeting people and making deep like that's again I explained
that that's like my meaning of life is like making
deep connections with people. But back then it was a
little bit self serving, more self serving than it should
have been. I cringe a little bit when Kurt Is like, oh, dude,
you were just a good hang and like, you know,
you had that energy and all that stuff, and I'm like, yeah,
in my head, I go, that was like manic energy.

(01:09:35):
That was like energy that was me so desperately needing
to like be in everybody's face, like being like hey,
like I'm here, do you see me? That kind of thing,
you know. And I'm not trying to say that any
of the things that I ever said to anyone were
like disingenuous, or any of the connections that I made
were coming from a disingenuous place. I genuinely would get

(01:09:56):
a lot from those things, but it was like also
with that, if I can get my little fix on
the side, like that would be great too.

Speaker 6 (01:10:04):
Do you think that growing up with having that manic
feeling that it's helped you out with your shows.

Speaker 5 (01:10:09):
Now, I mean, do you think.

Speaker 6 (01:10:12):
You're really control that that feeling now? I mean earlier
we were talking about how you have like four shows
in a day and by that fourth last show you're
kind of like just burnt, and you're talking about kind
of redirecting. How you think you think that that could
be from being going through the manic stages and then
being able to control it little by little as we

(01:10:33):
grow older.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
I think that's a really good point, and I actually
had not considered that, like why I do bring the
energy that I do bring to the stage might be
because of the fact that I'm redirecting that that mania,
or taking that need for approval and that energy, that
anxious energy that kind of comes with that, and redirecting
it to like a more healthy place. If that's what

(01:10:56):
you're saying. I think that's kind of what you're saying.

Speaker 6 (01:10:58):
It's kind of like like how we were talking about
like being grateful and things. I kind of get the
feeling that it's now that you have these gigs or
this outlet, it's almost all that energy that you had
to give before, that manic energy you are.

Speaker 5 (01:11:12):
Now allowed to give it while you're performing on storage.

Speaker 6 (01:11:14):
So when you have four shows and a day, maybe
get a little bit in the beginning, a little bit
more in the middle, and then I'll.

Speaker 5 (01:11:21):
Show you have to just give it all because you
have nothing left.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think you're right. From and there was
especially that I think going back to the time where
I was frustrated with the indie trying to come up
with my own like project, I think that's when those
things were the worst, is when I was not fulfilling
my own need for like creative fulfillment, and so I
was trying to get instant I was trying to get
gratification dopamine from elsewhere, you know, going and putting my

(01:11:47):
guitar up in someone's face and looking at their reaction
and hoping that they enjoy it getting that because I
wasn't getting it in other places. But yeah, I think
you're you're right. Once I was able to do it
in a in a place where yeah, you're supposed to
go up there, You're supposed to go and be in
everybody's face and be as loud and proud as you
can be. Yeah, I think that definitely helped. I didn't
even think about that, because, yeah, I would say that

(01:12:08):
since since I've been able to do that, that need
has gone way down. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Absolutely, when left unchecked, if you don't put that energy
into a healthy place, it can manifest it. Like with me,
it turned into an addiction, like like I got into
drinking because I didn't know where to put that misplace energy.
So it's it's really cool to hear someone that is
I don't know you know, and I'm I turned thirty

(01:12:37):
seven this year, so I got I got a couple
of years on you, not like in like, oh I'm older.
I'm just saying like I've Yeah, when I was in
that same position, like I hadn't, I hadn't been coming.
I hadn't come to these conclusions that you're coming to
with my relationship with music, my own kind of ego,
and the things that I struggled with. So it's just

(01:12:58):
it's really uh deering and and just inspiring to hear
that you're working through those things in a healthy way
and that you have been able to like come out
the other side, because it's it's all tied to like
our mental health and our relationship with music.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
I appreciate that, Yeah, I hope it doesn't come off
as over sharing. But I used to have a mental
health oriented podcast a few years ago, and so I'm
used to sharing this sort of thing, like in this
kind of setting. So getting back to the music, I mean,
you know, I do like to think I came out
on the other side of a lot of that stuff
and it has affected my music positively and affected my

(01:13:34):
own like way that I look at my own work positively.
So I told Sam it was just took getting older
on the other side of it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Do you how do you reconcile with the things that
you've gone through and some of the vulnerable vulnerabilities that
you shared with us, Like does that reflect in your
current songwriting now what your craft is.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
I think I used to there was like a phase
and I think I still do it sometimes where a
lot of my songs end up talking about the act
of songwriter, the stuff you go through when you're doing that,
how challenging that can be, and like the having how
much you have to face yourself in that moment of
like trying to write a really honest song. I did
go through like a phase of that, and I think

(01:14:13):
that was like in the coming out of it, phase,
you know, where I'm like, oh, I'm recognizing that all
of this is bullshit and I just need to like
get past this and then I'm just gonna be in
this unhindered space. And I feel now that I'm in
that unhindered space. And yet now I don't have the
time as much to invest. So now I have the

(01:14:34):
I guess, the confidence. But as much as.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
We have reboots, armor keeds down, we are we have reboots,
armor keeds down, we are.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
In going through the motions of tay, going through the motions,
but like learning how to be a musician and like
what they put on us, like at cal poly Pomona,
or like when you're in college and you do need
to interact and that's your time where you have the
freedom to be creative because that's how you learn and

(01:15:21):
the time to perform, but you don't have the age
or the experience to know what really matters. And right
I was going to ask you, you know, if you
could go back and do college again, what would you
do differently as a musician knowing what you know?

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
Yeah, it's so easy, I know exactly what I would.
I mean, there's always that you know, I know to
get where I am now, I had to go through
whatever it was happening back then. Of course, there's that
if I could go back like now knowing and just
like relive it. And I think about that a lot,
going back to moments in life and just like really
appreciating I'm going to get little of subject. But like
I often think about what it's going to feel like

(01:15:58):
to miss the moment that I'm in now. I think
about that all the time. And so and I definitely
had that in college. I knew I had. I've written
songs about the concept of I'm gonna wish I was
back here someday like that kind of thing. But looking
back at college, and I say the same thing about
a lot of different stages in my life is like
sometimes I just wish I had taken myself a little

(01:16:19):
less seriously. I had taken everything a little less seriously
and just tried to have a little bit more. I mean,
I had plenty of fun, but I don't know that
it was the right kind of fun. Like what I
mean more is just like letting yourself be completely unhindered
or unrestricted in like you're expressing your own creativity. Like
one thing I think about all the time too, was

(01:16:41):
the fact that I did many of us at cal Poly,
I don't think used are full resources that we had
available to us to do many things that we could
have done that could have been incredible. Like I definitely
made use of the recording studio, and I always say
that with that degree, like you get out of it
what you put in. And so if put in time
to recording studio and all that stuff, I mean, you
can pass like and not have done hardly any of

(01:17:03):
that stuff, or you can get you know, like put
your time in and do really like learn and actually
have stuff that you take with you be on college
besides just the paper. But like one of the things
that I wish I had used more because I love
the idea and I still haven't done much of it
in my adult life, but like putting on shows, I
wish I had done more of that because I learned

(01:17:26):
once I was an employee at ASI had post graduation,
that you can like rent the concert level sound system
for like twenty to thirty dollars for the event. So
you get like this expensive like concert level grade sound
system that you could have used, and you get the

(01:17:47):
space they have plenty of spaces where you can host
whatever kind of event you want as long as you're
in a club and you're chartered, Like you could do
all this stuff for like very little money, and you
there was so I think about that all the time.
I'm like, I wish I had put on more shows
because I dreamed about, Like I love the idea of
like opening up my own venue one day or something.

(01:18:07):
I me and my dad have talked about it as
our own little, you know, pipe dream thing, And I'm like, man,
I could have done I could have started a scene.
I could have like I could have nurtured a scene
that already existed, or something become a part of something
that already existed.

Speaker 4 (01:18:20):
By well, it would have you could have established like
I say, we're playing the coulda should, would have game,
But like I definitely would have gone to establish too,
like leadership that hey, there's a healthy music scene on
campus that wants to be nurtured and and are their last.
With our interview with doctor Viejo, we talked about trying
to establish a dedicated venue on campus for musicians or

(01:18:42):
for for the music department, or nurturing the various musical
cultures that were represented on campus and like how do
you how do you make that happen now? Like is
there anything to be a part of And it's like no,

(01:19:02):
because it's student run, you know, like the students have
to come up with that. So Dean, how do you
take Are you taking any of that with you now?
Or like I know you said you were talking. You
just said you're talking to your dad about starting a
venue or something, but like, is that something you really
want to do.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
It's it's like one of those things that I think
I see myself doing like decades from now, like when
I have a little less energy to do like the
performing thing, and maybe I want to like nurture the
next generation of performers. I could see that being like
a labor of love in the future. But like, in

(01:19:45):
small ways, I think it's so funny because I'm looking
back on cal Poly in that moment and going, oh,
you know, I had all that stuff available to me
and I and I didn't do anything with it. I'm
talking about mostly like the possibility of putting on a show.
Are doing more of that, But the same thing applies today,

(01:20:05):
Like if if that's something I really want to do,
I can make it happen. Like, yeah, I have the resources,
I have the connections I have, you know, I have
a I have community, a community or communities that I
can I'm a part of. So if I really wanted
to do something like that, and I think about that,
I think about like putting on a local show here

(01:20:26):
in town, because in where I live in Temecula, it
doesn't seem like there's really a thriving original music scene.
It seems like it's mostly like dad rock cover bands
at like bars and stuff and wineries, which is fun
in its own right, But like I want to know,
to reference my previous stuff about Scott, I want to

(01:20:49):
know where the weirdos are. I want to know where
the people that like that, where they feel out of
place or like they feel like no one likes the
music that they like. And there have been places like
that that have existed in town, and I learned about
them at a younger age, but as people, you know,
I don't If there are them now, then I don't.
I don't know about them, and I've tried to seek
them out a little and haven't had much results. But uh, yeah,

(01:21:13):
I mean so to answer your question, yeah, like I
take some of that with me, and it just comes
to like it just goes to show that like, if
you really want something, you can you can make it happen.
If you dedicate all of your resources and energy to something,
you could probably make it work. Like I think about
if you wanted to make a viral video and that
was like your ultimate goal in life that you wanted

(01:21:34):
to get like thirteen million views on like a TikTok
that you make. You could make a tip that anybody
could anybody could figure it out and figure out like
and make it happen. But it's like and then people
will sit and go, oh, well, you know none of this,
like like I just need to I don't know. People
will make excuses and it's like, well, but if you
really wanted it, you you would go and do it.

(01:21:55):
The thing is you just don't want it that much,
and that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:58):
That's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
If you don't want it that much, you can let
it be just an idea and then maybe something along
the way, whether it's a person you talk to or whatever,
suddenly you realize, oh, this is the time, you know,
And that's that's okay too. It's okay to like wait
for something to inspire you.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Well, I wouldn't say, wait, but like we're so destination
obsessed rather than process obsessed, like I want to have this,
I want this true and and instead of what makes
and music is a perfect example, it's like what makes
you a great musician, like a well rounded musician, I
should say, is like the the process it takes to

(01:22:34):
get you to the point that you're at now.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Of like.

Speaker 2 (01:22:38):
It like you have these little kind of like benchmarks
of what, oh, here's an album, here's a song I wrote,
but like at the end, that's not really like it's
the people you played with, it's the memories you made.
But yeah, we're so we're so focused on the outcome
rather than the the process of getting there to.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
Your yeah, to Leo and Brandon, like there's it's when
it comes to the process specifically, there's consequences to the
result too, you know, like say going to your example,
like say you do make this viral video and do
you just want to make one or do you want
to continue to make more videos? Because now you've set
the bar really high, and so is the effort that

(01:23:22):
worth it? Like, especially when it comes to like being
an influencer or being viral or whatever. Like, dude, now
now you've set the standard for yourself where everything is content,
every everything you make is now a product. And this
could this definitely relates back to music too, And it's
funny going to like you playing with Sea World and

(01:23:45):
going back to like, do you feel like you've given
up some of your artistic integraty integrity to do what
you do? And I like your answers pretty much. No, Like,
you get to perform and make music and make people happy.
But when when people are songwriters, you know, like you
didn't write those songs. But like, if you're all of
a sudden, now you're working for a record label and

(01:24:06):
you're writing music for an artist, or you work for
a production company and you're writing music for television or
movies or whatever, every creative idea you have is now
contributing to your rent or your mortgage or your ability
to feed yourself. And so you know, it's easy to
it's easy for us to be like like I just

(01:24:27):
want to release music and do this, but it's like,
but what it's important. Yes, we have the process, but
the end goal matters too. What do you want from that?
And do you want to be a successful musician making
money off of your music and that's your career. Then
you might feel like you lose some of your integrity
because it is inevitable that it will become money driven.

(01:24:51):
And then it's like then here comes all of the
negative things associated with that, like your ego, your quality,
like everything is now more tied to it. The steaks
are higher and it also worry.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
But they also not look like it also may not
look like the pipe dream that you had of like, oh,
this is what a successful musician looks like. Like you
mentioned a lot of kind of like more of the
mundane music industry, which is ninety nine point nine percent
of the music industry is promoters, bookers, production assistants pas
like people that are doing the things that are cover

(01:25:25):
bands and no shade on that too, but like they
keep the machine running and not to like there's on
it's the same, like I call it the fry cook
analogy of like everybody wants to be Anthony Bourdain. Everybody
wants to be Gordon Ramsay or like a head chef
or the bear, right, that's more applicable, but they don't
want to they don't want to wash dishes and they

(01:25:46):
don't want to peel potatoes and they don't want to
be a fry cook for years and years and years
and years, and like even that's a toxic mind out,
Like like the the likelihood of you becoming the Bear
or the next Anthony Ordain is so infinitesimally small that
like we lose sight of like the actual like, oh,

(01:26:07):
we still got to keep the lights on in this
restaurant and put food on people's tables.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
Yeah. Well, and doctor Coplin made a post to and
I think doctor Revere shared it or vice versa or whomever. Again,
I think we talked about the same exact thing that
doctor Villejo did, but where like it's not talked about
the wide spectrum of professionals in the music industry. Like

(01:26:31):
there's this public perception that either you're a starving artist
or you're a pop star, right, and it's like no,
there's a huge spectrum in between it where like people
are working musicians and they're maybe making enough money or
they have a side gig or whatever. But like dude,
like playing for SeaWorld over the summer, it's a job

(01:26:56):
and it's fun and it makes music or it makes
it makes make music, But it's making money, and you
have to stay on top of your musical skills and
keep that hone, keep those honed. But then you're also
like accomplishing something. You're entertaining people, You're doing what musicians
want to do. So it's just, yeah, there's ways to
live that dream. You don't have to sell your soul

(01:27:16):
to become a pop star and then burn out after
three or four years. You know, Like, I guess what
I'm trying to get to is like you're showing that
it can be done, and it can be done reasonably,
and it can be done in a way that doesn't
sacrifice the heart and soul of this muse that you
have for yourself, and how you have offloaded your insecurities

(01:27:40):
about music into other things. You know, now that it's
based on our conversation tonight, is it seems like you
were able to shed the things that terrify the young
students at cal Poly Pomona or at Fullerton College to
people who want to be the little fish by the

(01:28:00):
shark that want to get the scraps from.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
All the other good musicians.

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
You know, I don't want to talk too long, but
I was just talking to one of the cadets at
my work today about about the music scene and how
one thing that tired me of like the jazz world,
was the constant competition to be in some certain musicians circle.
And it was like, well, I'm a better guitar player

(01:28:25):
than you, and you know i'm your guy, right, Like
I'm your guitar player. I had a whole thing with
with an old friend of mine who he had me
sit in on a little thing he was recording and
his buddy was playing trombone and just out of earshot
I was in the other room. He's like, but I'm
your guitar player, right, not him, I'm your guitar player.

(01:28:45):
And I'm like, what is this? Why are you projecting
this into this space?

Speaker 2 (01:28:50):
This is my home?

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
And it's just like it's nice to be older and
not give a shit anymore, and so like it's it's
almost a super power.

Speaker 3 (01:29:00):
Yeah, yeah, it definitely feels like that sometimes.

Speaker 4 (01:29:02):
Yeah, sorry, I don't know. Just I appreciate what you've
done with your musical journey. Thank you, I really do.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
It feels surreal sometimes and and I mean my hope
is and definitely after tonight, like you guys have inspired
me to to get back to the the more passion
oriented projects that I have going on, uh and and
give them time, give them their time. And I think,

(01:29:32):
like that's gonna happen more now that I'm kind of
out of I'm a little I'm definitely more out of
like this survival mode that I was in the past
couple of years where it's like, you know, because I
work contract to contract, so it's like you never know
for sure that you're going to get a gig for
like whatever season you're doing, and so and I mean,

(01:29:53):
you know, yes, I I appre you know, I I
definitely don't want to negate the fact that I have
been successful like in my own way, but you know
sometimes I mean I'm at my folks house right now.
I still live at my folks house, you know, like
that's the only way that this would have worked up
until and I'm finally getting to the point where I'm like, oh,
I think I can actually do this. I could probably

(01:30:14):
go and get my own place and be fine, you know,
like and you know, but there you go, Like that's
one example of like a way that it's still kind
of not working or wasn't working for a while. I
had to but I also I had to get comfortable
with getting to a place where I want to accept
the help that is offered to me, to allow myself

(01:30:37):
to pursue these things that people know, believe, maybe even
more than me sometimes that this is what I'm supposed
to be doing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:43):
Yes, do preach please that. Okay. I get so up
in arms when people are like, there's no shame in
living with your parents. There's no I live with my
parents until I got married. Like, and with the example
that of folks that are successful, and I'm talking about
the point one point zero zero one percent of like

(01:31:06):
famous bands, pop stars, all those like Stomp Clap, peyho
indie bands. Right, they're all fucking nepo babies, dude. They
all come from families with millions and millions of dollars. Yes,
and they could afford to live in a flat in
the city. The Strokes could afford to live in New
York City, but still act like they were a grudgy,
like you know, a post rock band in the early

(01:31:26):
two thousands, you're like appropriating poverty one hundred percent. Man,
Oh my god, But like that is such an important
lesson and I'm so glad you mentioned that dude, like
take the take the It's again tied to letting go
of your ego and your pride and being okay of like,

(01:31:47):
if you're gonna do this, and Kurt mentioned this too,
if you want to do this, it's gonna take sacrifice,
and what kind of it that isn't even that bad
of a sacrifice. You get to hang out more with
your parents. You know, how many more years have you
got with them? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:31:59):
So, and that's true too, that's another thing.

Speaker 2 (01:32:04):
My bad.

Speaker 9 (01:32:04):
Sorry oops oops, Yeah, no, absolutely, it took me a
lot to get over because I was living on my
own for ten years before I came back, and it
was like during the COVID times that I kind of like.

Speaker 3 (01:32:16):
There was a transitional period like a year into COVID
where I was like, you know what, I'm not going
to go sign another lease in LA And that wasn't
the same time that I left like one of my
forty hour week jobs to kind of I was like
I can't do this anymore. Yeah, it was just you
guys can understand, like there's just.

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
A point time recording, so late at night or early
in the morning for Adam.

Speaker 3 (01:32:41):
Oh yeah, that's great. I actually want to know more
about Adam's story too. I really don't know much about it,
but anyway, so yeah, like you know, I had to
get comfortable more comfortable with accepting help and accepting that
like there's people out there that want actually want to
see me succeed, and so that doesn't mean that like
success doesn't mean you did it all by yourself, right,

(01:33:03):
you know, it doesn't have to be that way. But
as a kid, like there's this video that my parents
took of me where I'm running, like before I could talk,
I was walk carrying my dad's like shoes around trying
to tie the laces, and they have like this video
of them like slowly approaching me, and then I realized
they're behind me, and I kind of like turn around
and I'm like and then I pick up the shoe

(01:33:24):
and I would leave because I wanted to do it
all by myself. And I think there is like American
culture influenced there, Like you have to be like self
made and all this self reliance.

Speaker 2 (01:33:36):
You're saying, like the boot yourself up by that one
boot that you were carrying.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
Yeah, or like and the other one is like if
you're like, I think I learned pretty pretty young, from uh,
from my parents, which we've reconciled this, but like from
my parents and from American culture or just the culture
around us in school that like, if you I got
this feeling that if you're not stressed out, if you
don't feel like you're on the verge of burnout and
you're not working hard enough.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Yeah, God, I got sick of that too.

Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
I was like, I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not
I'm not going to put myself in a place where
I like, I don't know where I'm just literally, I
just I don't want to be in survival mode anymore,
you know, barely getting by with scraping whatever mental health
I can off the floor.

Speaker 4 (01:34:19):
You know, it's the grind set like suffering is an
indication of hard work.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
At the expense of sounding cliche, Like that movie Whiplash
is about that very thing, right, and it pertains the
music too, Right, Like he achieved the thing that he
was setting now to do, but at what costs, Like,
at the cost of his own mental health and his soul.
I don't know, however you want to take that, But
it became the best drummer he could possibly become.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
Right, I think we're too white for Kurt again bringing
up Whiplash White.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
It's a good movie, it's just it misses the point.

Speaker 2 (01:34:54):
You touch. You touched a really good point though, with
you saying how success doesn't happen seeing right, it doesn't
happen in a vacuum. And like you mentioned, like Scott
is a perfect example any any great music genre that
it's traditions and roots came out of a community of people.
Like it wasn't just one person, Brunge wasn't just tur Cobaine.

(01:35:17):
It was an entire scene of people that came up
with them that like nurtured. And I think it's an
important thing to remember, like we are, we are the
sum of our parts. Like we're so much better together.
We're so much better when we collaborate. Music is like
communicative and it's this and not give and take. And
when we lose sight of that because of the very

(01:35:37):
like toxic American dream bullshit that we've been fed and
we've been trying to unlearn since childhood of like oh
do it on your own, it's like no, Like music
is so much better when you do it together. And
like I'm so grateful for this podcast. I mean we
started doing this around the same time like Covid Times.
I love that. I' when I start using that the

(01:35:57):
Covid Times.

Speaker 4 (01:35:59):
Yeah, actually four years as of this month.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
But like, I'm just so grateful for this podcast because
it came out of like I don't know, it was
a combination of like a desire from Kurt, a combination
of like we don't know what to do with boredom whatever. Yeah,
and it's turned into this opportunity we get to have
like really meaningful, thought provoking conversations that like I get
to reflect on later on. They're funny, they're they're goofy,
we say stupid shit at times, but then there's a

(01:36:24):
lot of like truth that we get to hear and
like connect with people like you and and and just
learn from me. Man. I'm just I'm very appreciative of it.

Speaker 3 (01:36:31):
Me too. I love So this is like what I
live for is like these types of talks. And so
when you guys invited me to be on it, I
was like it's a no brainer because I just like
get to have a meaningful discussion about music and probably
other things and laugh and like I don't have a
setting where this is. This is the point, you know,
like you know, there's not like some like feeling like oh okay,

(01:36:52):
I gotta go, like you know, I don't know, go
get my errands done or something like that, like you
set aside time to like do this, you know, and
and and and this is the point. And it's my
favorite thing to do is connecting with other human beings
and having meaningful conversations that you like like comparing notes
on life, like taking taking things that someone else has

(01:37:15):
learned and getting to apply that in a way, Like
I already learned more about myself just from talking to
you guys and your insights like that I'm excited to
take with me going forward, you know, So I really
appreciate you guys to help.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
Hey Dato man.

Speaker 4 (01:37:35):
Yeah, And then we get a lot out of our
conversations with our guests too, Like it's really cool to
see the different perspectives surrounding music and everyone's journeys. Like
the only ulterior motive we have is we just want
to release an episode.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:37:50):
It's nice to to chat and connect and you know,
the funny thing about the show is I'm thinking about
it right now and it didn't occur to me, but
like you know, we're talking about shedding the insecurity. He's
in the ego and this show was bred out of insecurity.

Speaker 3 (01:38:04):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:38:04):
It was I had like my son had been born,
and I my roommate was a practicing, performing jazz trumpet player,
and I wasn't doing anything, and I wasn't writing music,
and I was just I felt like a failure of
a musician. And I had lost my job in the
music industry. And I was like, I need to do something.

(01:38:25):
I'm gonna explode. And I was feeling really shitty. And
my wife was like, you should like write music on
a podcast with your friends. And I'm like, oh shit.
And I listening to this episode of Harmon of Dan
Harmon was on some podcasts. There's a lot of Dan
Harmon influence here. But like he mentioned, he mentioned hearing

(01:38:46):
something about there. He was talking about the creative process,
and I think it was I think it was Jeff B.
Davis was like, who's quoting some Hollywood executive who said that, like,
when it comes to creativity, it doesn't have to be good,
it just has to exist. And I'm like, oh, fuck's
where it comes from. Yeah, and so and so we

(01:39:07):
were that's where the songwriting aspect came from like forty
five minutes, let's just talk about the process. And then
once it became unattainable for the tech and whatever it
was at the time available to write a song and
release a song with forty five minutes. Now with two children,
full time job and like no space in my house,

(01:39:28):
it turned into review some songs.

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Let's talk to.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
People about their creative process. And I remember struggling with
quality control and Adam was like, hey, man, it doesn't
have to be good. It just has to exist. Like
that's the principle to apply to the show. And so
it just over time you shed the insecurity and you're
looking at like, dude, I'm just getting something out there,
and it became genuine and real and it I think

(01:39:54):
taking a more relaxed approach to this is what makes
these conversations so enjoyable. And it's nice to have people
who are super relaxed and people who aren't in this
to be like this is going to boost my career,
you know, like because it's not like I'm sorry, it
probably won't, but damn it, but like that's the pressure

(01:40:16):
we don't have, and it's it's nice and it makes
conversations like this so enjoyable. So thank you for making
the time to come in and share your thoughts and
not that we're wrapping up. Sounds like I'm wrapping up,
but I'm not. But just like I've enjoyed this conversation.

(01:40:36):
I think I think all four of us have enjoyed.
And but yeah, thank you for sharing your your experiences
with all of this. Dude.

Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
Yeah, I I mirror all those thoughts, and I really
just it just has to exist. My version of that
was just make stuff I had made like my own
little hashtag, Like I made a cup whole videos where
I was like I was trying out my new camera,
and I was like starting this like series in my
mind of like I'm gonna make a video of me
skating even though I don't know how to skate. So

(01:41:08):
I made a video like that and like put it
in slow motion and like edit it in like dogtown
guys to make it look cool and stuff. And then
like I did another one of me dancing because I
don't know how to dance, and so I was like
I was like this is gonna be a thing. I'm
gonna try a bunch of stuff. I don't know how
to do and try to like film it so it
looks like I know what I'm doing, and uh, it
never went anywhere of course, right, Like but the hashtag

(01:41:29):
I put at the end of the video is like,
just just make stuff. And I still believe that, Like
I still believe that you just got to make stuff,
and you know, we can get into a whole bunch
of stuff about like uh, Max put me input is
something my friend told me about once, which is like
that's that's kind of like when I when I'm in
the just make stuff mode, like I'm usually trying to
figure out what what I can make, and like one sitting,

(01:41:51):
if I'm like just trying to have something to do,
like it something to show for like my efforts for
the day or something, that's when I make like those
like crappy like Instagram reels and stuff like where I'm
just like I'm gonna make something that like it's a
quick like cover of a song or it's like a
little joke or something, and I just want to be
done with it in one sitting so that I can
get my approvies and then I can move on and

(01:42:14):
you know, like but at least then I have something
and I and I get to go back to it
and watch it and enjoy it myself. But anyway, I
I do want to ask you guys, because I'm I
something I think we haven't even touched on that I'm
like really curious about. And I definitely I've been in
like a vacuum myself about my own creative process. But

(01:42:35):
like just a question to start us off for you guys,
I'd like to go around the table, like what is
the and if you if you feel like you want
to take us in a different direction, that's fine too,
But like, what is the most recent thing you heard
in a song? Let's say, like a recording that you
heard and you go and you it's a detail that
you feel like you noticed that is completely like underrated,

(01:43:00):
and you go, oh my god, I can't believe they
did that. Like for me, I think it was like
a recent recording where I think they used like one
mic to record the drums, and like it was like
a pretty like relatively well established band and they used
one mic in like a room to record the drums,
and I was like they didn't need to do that.
They could have micd it up and made it sound
super big or whatever, but like something about the character

(01:43:21):
of that space that you hear in the drum recording
makes that song. Yeah, and so like something like that,
like that's kind of where my head's at. But you
just can't take it in any whatever direction you want to.
Maybe that'll springboard us.

Speaker 2 (01:43:36):
Are you speaking specifically on the production side, because it
could it be lyrics.

Speaker 3 (01:43:40):
No, yeah, any like little details or something that you
feel like you're like wow, Like I don't think anyone
realizes how genius this is or how integral this is
to like whatever final product.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
So for me, I was I I plan a band
up here called Breezy, and on my drive home, I
my drive there, I usually the band practice is like
about thirty minutes away from house. On the drive there,
I always listened to like alien podcasts or whatever on
their drive back. Always put yeah, yeah, I love that shit.

(01:44:12):
Yeah sasquatch, anything that has to do and I just like,
goofy shit like that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:17):
You listen to the last podcast on the left, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
I haven't listened to them in a while. I have
a lot of catching up to do. I used to
really love stuff they don't want you to know. Oh okay, Yeah,
that's another great one. They do like CIA. I don't
know this conspiracy theory stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:44:33):
Love it, Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
On the drive back. I've been really into live albums,
and so last week I listened to Fleet Foxes Live
at Boston Harbor, and this week I put on Watchhouse.
They're fit formerly known as Mandolin Orange should say husband
and wife duo from I think South Carolina. They're fantastic.

(01:44:56):
You guys, never listening, but kind of like the new
bluegrass folk in the grain of like Chris Steely Sarah Gerose.

Speaker 3 (01:45:04):
Oh yeah, I love Chris Steely and I've never pronounced
his name correctly if that's how you correctly pronounce.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
It, and I'm guessing on that too. I think it's Steely,
but I was I was like Crys style Chris Steely,
but that that kind of like really real, nuanced and subdued,
kind of like Gregory Allen Isaacov. So they have a
song called Waltz about Whiskey, and the entire song is
about this old dude that goes to a bar and

(01:45:30):
sits down and he's just recollecting his marriage and you
don't know if it was it was death or divorce,
but he had he had been in love at one
point in time, and he envisions being in love again,
and he sees the bartender and she's just pouring him,
you know, you know, shot after shot, and the song
there's a line at the very end, so the last

(01:45:55):
second or last lyric before the final chorus says, well,
I remember the night she sat down beside me. She
cried love was a ring that won't end. So double
on Tundra was a ring. Love is a ring, like
a wedding ring. And then the last line is, while
I was handed a lie, and now the only thing
I know of a ring is a circle. My glass

(01:46:16):
leaves behind. And I'd never listened to that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:19):
Yeah, i'd got chills.

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
Yeah, fire fire so like and I had I never
was able to like play that out visually in my head.
And then it hit me while I was listening to
the song, and I was like, that's the most brilliant
fucking line I've ever heard in my entire life. So
that was my most recent one.

Speaker 3 (01:46:35):
Yeah, that's great. I love how stoked you got to
talking about it. That's like, yeah, that's exactly what I
was looking for.

Speaker 4 (01:46:42):
Yeah, I'll send you.

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
Guys a song it's fantastic.

Speaker 6 (01:46:47):
We got here, all right, mine's not as uh my,
my songs might not be as popular.

Speaker 5 (01:46:52):
But have you ever heard of a song called Desposito?

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
Oh shit, yeah, that's that very most popular one.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
Oh that's right, there was fifteen weeks or wait, so
you have a detail in Desposito that like gives you
chills or like you feel like he was underappreciated. Yeah,
so I'm excited.

Speaker 5 (01:47:11):
I was listening to UH.

Speaker 6 (01:47:12):
I listened to like production podcasts a lot, and there's
one guy named uh.

Speaker 5 (01:47:18):
I think it's Lisito Soto. I forget how to pronounce
his name anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:47:25):
First names, last name Cito.

Speaker 5 (01:47:27):
Yeah, that's the one.

Speaker 6 (01:47:28):
But the producer of Desposito was on there, and he
was talking about just making room on an album, like
in a song, and the one little trick he was
trying to do during the whole process was everything sounded
really really jumbled.

Speaker 5 (01:47:45):
And he couldn't quite figure out what was going on.

Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
Mhm.

Speaker 5 (01:47:49):
And then what he said was, I think it was
like he was just tweaking some.

Speaker 6 (01:47:53):
Stuff and he put the low end base just over
to the right a.

Speaker 5 (01:47:59):
Little bit, and when he did that, he opened up
the entire song so that people could feel it more,
people could be more open to receiving it. Everything didn't
sound so jumbled.

Speaker 6 (01:48:11):
It was just kind of like the song sounded not
right for such a long time, but then just making
that one little, itty bitty tweet completely changed everything.

Speaker 3 (01:48:23):
That's crazy. I would never think to pan low end
information unless it's like, you know, an old Beatles recording
where you've got like the bass and the drums on
one side and the vocals, and.

Speaker 6 (01:48:34):
That was They couldn't even control that back then, and
now it's yeah, we have we have to go back
and figure out the old ways of doing it to
understand how we can do it in a new way.

Speaker 5 (01:48:46):
We're just going back and doing the same old.

Speaker 6 (01:48:49):
Things but with new technology, which is funny when you
think about it.

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
Yeah, because it's a fun thing to do. Is the
spatial arrangement of a song, Oh yeah, totally. You close
your eyes and like imagine in the different parts of
the room.

Speaker 3 (01:49:03):
It's its own thing. I know someone who who told
me that they had a friend or a mentor that
when they're mixing a song, they only pan center, left
and right, so they don't do anything in between, so
anything everything is either fully left, fully right, or just
dead center. And I tried that one time for a

(01:49:25):
song and it was like I was like, oh my god,
this really does open it up. If you ever want
to really hear an instrument and feel like it's like
too close to your face, like you just hard pan it,
you know, And if you're my friend one of my
other friends is like, you know, she's like, I think
about sometimes that most people who are in like one
of the main ways people consume music is in the car.
So she's like, so, if I want someone to really

(01:49:46):
hear something, I pan it to the left. And if
someone is you know, because you're on the driver's side,
or like I want someone to like, you know, I
want a hard pan something, but I don't want it
to be like so noticed I pan it to the right,
and I was like, I didn't even think about that.

Speaker 6 (01:50:00):
And the cool wow, the cool thing with like panning
and being able to open up like different kind of
uh wavefields, I guess in the in the mix is
nowadays we have three D mixing the screw right and left.
I can have the drums in front, I can have
the vocalists behind me, basis over here, guitarists over here,

(01:50:23):
and then the audience member now feels like they're in
the middle of the band and they're surrounding and playing
some reason.

Speaker 4 (01:50:28):
The piano is above you.

Speaker 5 (01:50:30):
Exactly piano.

Speaker 2 (01:50:32):
It's a cartoon and follows on you just like flying.

Speaker 3 (01:50:36):
A sense of uneasiness the whole song, because you're like,
when is it gonna fall?

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
You're a coyote, You're in an hackney truck.

Speaker 5 (01:50:44):
I put I put up a tap shoes on the floor.
Just feel like dancing a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:51:05):
We don't a monkey's a monkey tower. We like to play.
And that's around.

Speaker 4 (01:51:09):
Even if a loution.

Speaker 6 (01:51:10):
Wolve so was done.

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
We even had us up every.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
Day and you say about the month to wait.

Speaker 1 (01:51:18):
If you ask why, won't just got balance?

Speaker 5 (01:51:23):
What am I?

Speaker 2 (01:51:25):
What am I get?

Speaker 5 (01:51:27):
What I get?

Speaker 8 (01:51:29):
Where I got

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