Episode Transcript
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(00:15):
We were talking about getting old Kerrand what happens to your health and your
body as you're older. It makesme want to do yoga. I feel
like I did yoga like a coupleof times in college and I was like,
this is really good. I needto do this more often. And
then I never helped followed through it, but I did because it was like
a pe requirement, wasn't it.You had to like it was one of
(00:36):
the courses because you had to dolike you had to do like a semester
of like physical education or something.See, I did that. I came
from community college. I did myfirst nine years at community college. Which
community college you go to. Iwent to Riverside Community College RCC NORCO as
well NORCO. They have an excellentmusic department. Brady Kerr shout out and
(00:58):
he just got his master's screet.Brady Kerr is the I think he's the
chair of their International or not internationalreally music industry Studies Recording. I got
my AVID certification there for pro tools. They were Wow, they were rocking
it. Yeah, but yeah,I did nine years in community college.
I traveled a lot and I tooklike my first like two years there.
I took like feeder and like theguitar class like it wasn't I did.
(01:21):
I took a long time. It'sa long time I did. I only
did four years in community college.I felt pressured a little bit to go
to university. That's the thing is, there's this weird pressure of parents and
like I think it's from like theold the old guard of oh, you
got to go to school and geta good job. I just read an
article the other day. I sawit scrolling through Facebook that a lot of
(01:42):
I might have been on the Atlantic. I don't know. The Atlantic's like
throwing some fire out in must lastlike two months, but really the article
basically said that a lot, bylike twenty twenty six, a lot of
corporations are going to stop requiring bachelor'sdegrees or positions. I don't know if
it's entry level or what that means. I wonder what the consequences long term
(02:05):
are going to be that I meanmore maybe more people who get jobs.
I mean, if bachelor's degrees seemto be more and more undervalued, they
got to restructure the way that jobsare, like apprenticeship more so, like
it is when you get into atrade where you are, you're basically an
apprentice for a couple of years,because I feel like in those really technical
I mean, this isn't going tobe for like medicine or like healthcare.
(02:28):
There's no way. But I gotthe certificate in bone medicine, boning.
It could be a bone doctor loancertified. Baby. That sounds like something
I would never say to a femaleor anybody. I hope not. Are
we are we live streaming this?Yeah, we're live streaming. Okay,
I don't really care, but yeah, go to school if you want.
(02:52):
If you don't want, you don'thave to go to school. Yeah.
There's so many people that are like, it's such a polarized issue of like,
oh, you'd need to go toschool, and other people are like,
you don't need a degree. AndI knew people that when we were
going to college, they like droppedout and they were good, they were
you know, they were getting goodgrades. They dropped out like halfway through.
They're like, I could do thison my own. I took a
Did I tell you about my experiencewith the uh They asked about cal Polypomona
(03:17):
and they asked alumni to talk abouttheir experiences there. Did I tell you
about this, I did it too. Poplin put it on right, that's
right. Yeah, he arranged itall. And you kind of weird that
it happened, you know, fouryears down the line. But I'm glad
that they had the foresight to startdoing it because there was well I was
going to ask, because I didit. I think you and I are
in different sessions then. But itwas funny because everyone was asking. The
(03:39):
question was, in a word,what do you think of cal poly Pomona
music department, And like everyone wasanswering, like oh, home and comfort
and community and whatever. And Iwent naive, like we all thought we
were going to get great jobs andwe went to this program at a polytechnic
university where we're supposed to learn bydoing, and for a lot of US
(04:00):
music industry guys, we didn't learnanything. No, yeah, right,
that opened the floodgates and everyone itturned into a whole whole thing or everyone
was just talking smack on the program. Good. I think there's two reasons
for that. One of them that'snot an isolated that doesn't happen to vacuum.
I just think like higher education anduniversity level in general is not prepping.
(04:25):
It hasn't retroactively caught up to wherequote unquote industry standards are like what
is happening now? So that is, you can replace music industry studies with
any major and it's gonna You're gonnaget the same outcome. It's just hard
to get good paying jobs for peoplethat are coming right out of college.
(04:46):
Yeah. Two, I had avery different session than you did. Our
session was like people were right outof the gate, were ready to top
some smack on the way. Well, a great point the learn by doing
thing and folks, this happens inany higher learning, any college. It
is good to have feedback and I'mglad. So basically what this was was
(05:09):
it was a listening session. Kurtand I attended Music Industry Studies at Pomona
in Pomona, It's in California,but they had a listening session. Basically,
they hired a third party consultant.I think it was a consultancy firm
that garnered all this data, gotthe feedback. We did a couple of
(05:30):
like surveys, and then we actuallyhad this like roundtable on zoom and the
big takeaways were like I was surprisedthat people like got to this point,
but they basically talked about how thereis no equity standpoint as far as like
there's a huge Latin population of studentsthat come from the Latin musical background and
(05:53):
culture and very minimal study of it. It focuses more so on the like
the Eastern Cannon, which is fine, but there is a huge musical language
that wasn't being followed through even withinlike that. It seemed like, and
this is how college and academia isin general. You're on an island,
(06:15):
right, You're in this warm,cozy little island and the world just kind
of happens on around you. Yeah, the same it goes for the music
part. And Calpola Pomona, therewas this thriving, huge music scene literally
like two miles down the road indowntown Pomona. Oh yeah, that because
of like folks like John Lawes orthe guys from like Moon Ensemble, Brandon
(06:39):
Hard we were able to like kindof be a part of, but they
weren't being inclusive of like the communitythat had roots historically right in that city.
One of the issues I found asyou and I both transfer students,
and something Kylie Mayhew and I talkedabout it is like this isolationist. You
(07:03):
feel definitely isolated when you're there andtheir words are hard, like when we
came over, Like the kids whostarted there as freshmen, they all have
their groups, they all got theirbuddies, and there's no cohesion even outside
of the classes. There just isn't. I never felt like there was a
significant amount of cohesion. Your highlights, you were someone you know, you
(07:26):
already had a group going into it. You had it people you could collaborate
creativitively, creatively. But someone likeme and Kylie, where we're just on
our own, it was really difficultfor us to kind of get that experience
working in an ensemble. And Imean that may have been for a number
of reasons, for whatever it was, but it didn't really the only group,
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the only class I could think ofthat encouraged collaboration between the peers with
pure creativity would be would have beenthe songwriter m I think that that was
props to that that was the best, probably the best experience that in the
recording classes with Dan Long and ArthurWeiner songwriter showcase. I think when it
(08:11):
came to like hands on producing andmaking and releasing music, that was uh,
that was really, really a reallyimportant experience, and I learned a
lot from that. But overall,when it came to things like not just
necessarily being part of the community,but like you said, being part of
this the music industry and staying relevant. The metaphor I like to use is
(08:39):
we learned how the engine worked,but we didn't learn how to drive the
car. Yeah. Absolutely, Andthat's and that's I don't know, which
is unfortunate because I mean a lotof folks start, like someone brought this
up in the listening session. Theytalked specifically about the the Steinway pianos that
they had and in the rooms andthe practice rooms. I don't know the
(09:01):
average cost of a Sinaway piano.I would imagine it to be I don't
want to say one hundred thousand dollars, but like I don't know the same
price as the car. Maybe Idon't know, But someone brought up it
was like why don't we you know, why don't we sell those? Or
why don't you take half of thoseand put electric keyboards and like mac daw
(09:24):
work studios in there so that peoplethat are in the recording program or in
music industry studies. This is onepoint that I do want to make because
there's probably a lot of listeners thatare ten ten thousand apiece, ten thousand
piece of signway pianos. I mean, you can you can build a whole
home studio for ten thousand dollars.You can you can furbish five of those
little rooms with small computers, microphonesand a scarlet interface to teach people so
(09:52):
that they can get into pro tools. We do have a lot of listeners
that are either faculty or professors,and this is one thing I want point.
I do want to make that itis no fault of the individual professors
because I developed such amazing relationships andI felt like I had a lot of
advocates for me in school. Yes, and this goes this goes for like
(10:13):
academia as a whole. It isnot the it is not the fault of
the of the professors, of theteaching. It is the it's a systemic
issue right when it's the curriculum.It's the curriculum of power structures that are
uphill that have never that haven't beenreally rectified as in the right world,
but like haven't been kind of broughtinto because when academia, when professors and
(10:39):
students are working in tandem, itcan create innovation and invention. But when
it has to kind of and music, I feel like classical music in the
Western canon tends to do this ingeneral because it has like this real tired,
staunch white like our diconomy that likestill holds very true in the education
(11:05):
system and even in like in likemy own experience in like playing out and
publishing my own music. But thatpower dynamic needs to be challenged for the
sake of just creating more not advantages, but like opportunities for the students that
(11:26):
go through these programs. I agree. I think that was something we also
discussed too in like our Western classicalcourses. Doctor Coplin was really good at
addressing these inequities. Uh, Doctordoctor Vaejo has taken great steps to really
change the focus as a whole ofthe department on how how it views music.
(11:48):
Yeah, and doctor Revere, Imean, like you said, the
faculty themselves, faculty and staff diddid everything they could to make it as
as as wide as a relationship withall music as they could potentially give it
within the required curriculums set by whoeverthe deciding parties are. I I mean,
(12:09):
I don't want to spend too muchtime on this because we have talked
about this before and we actually havea different topic that we wanted to address
today, and I were both Idon't know about you, but I am
unlimited time today. Oh, Iwas going balls of the wall in this
one. I thought this was whatit was our topic. I was about
ready to like my manifesto Spotify.Baby, we were talking, we're gonna
(12:31):
talk about I did all this research, You're going to change it up on
me? Well, I mean thisties into what we're talking about. Ties
it Spotify is constantly changing. Spotifyjust changed their platform. But like,
that's not something you're going to learnright out the cusp inside of the music
program. I was going to seguetoo, like it's hard for these universities
that have to think long term tokeep up with the modern music industry.
(12:54):
When there's there's this book out there, How to Make It in the New
Music Business by Ari Hurstan. Haveyou heard of it? I have?
It was recommended me by Fever Deacon. Shout out Sean McClure. He,
(13:15):
oh it happened again. We havethese little these balloons pop up yours,
doesn't mind? I don't know why. Every time I do the peace sign
peace, Oh, it's not doingit now. My MacBook just shoots off
digital balloons on the screen. Idon't know why. But let's tell me
about this book. Well, soAri Hurstan. I haven't read it.
(13:35):
I've bought it, I've glimpsed atit. I have a baby at home.
It's hard for me to just sitdown and read. But one thing
I think is funny is he releasedit. I can't remember when the first
edition came out, but the secondedition came out in twenty twenty and twenty
twenty three, he had to releasea third edition. Like so much changes
(13:56):
so fast in the music industry,and we're at a critical point right now
where it's really hard to keep upor information we had twenty years ago isn't
relevant anymore, especially with like streamingnow being a big thing. You guys
can check out our episode with SteveWeatherby. He works for Universal Music Group
(14:18):
and he's got his own side projects. But he's an expert in mechanical licensing,
he's an expert in copyright. Imean, he's just an all around
music industry guru. Goes to SteveWeatherby shout out to you if you're listening,
he's not. But it's just constantlychanging and they're trying to adapt,
(14:39):
and so it's hard for a university. I mean, I work in the
cal State system, so I knowhow slow things move. So trying to
stay on top of things and tryingto stay relevant while also putting that into
a state approved curriculum. I mean, they can't teach you everything they can't
get your hands on. But Ifeel like the educational experience, my educational
(15:00):
experience there kind of failed in someof the more broad strokes. How to
some things aren't going to change.How to register your music with the US
Copyright Office, that's not going tochange. We didn't learn how to do
that. How to sign up fora performance rights organization. Yeah, we
learned what they were and what theydid, but we didn't learn how to
(15:20):
how do you go through how doyou process your music? You know?
And part of that's the fault ofthe industry as well, for not being
able to encourage this type of educationamongst young musicians. Yeah, Like,
I mean that's smoke and mirrors onpart of the like publishing companies and the
record labels themselves. Yeah, andit's it's to protect, you know,
(15:41):
protect interests and to protect how muchmoney you make. I mean, ASKAP
and BMI their nonprofit, so theyneed to you know, keep as much
figure, keep as much business closeto the chest as they can. But
CSAK is for profit, you know, I mean, I don't know you
think they're some way to work aroundthat. Anyway, There is a new
(16:03):
update. There's a new alternative toHarry Fox in the music industry. It's
it's a federal system because Harry Foxhandles the mechanical licenses. It's not Sound
Exchange. I just saved this.No, it's not sound Range emails about
it. Oh, let me findthis sucker. It's MLC, the Mechanical
(16:27):
Licensing Collective. It is hilarious becausethey have a TikTok nonprofit organization established under
the Music Modernization Act of twenty eighteen. So it's created to issue blanket mechanical
licenses for qualified streaming services in theUS. I mean that the fact that
I read somewhere that they're kind offederally incentivized, like the federal government obviously
(16:52):
through the Music Modernization Act. It'sthat's what we've needed this whole time,
having worked with Harry Fox in aprofessional setting, they tend to overlook the
small creators, the mechanical licensing fees. For people who don't bring in tons
of cash, they get overlooked,Harry Fox as millions of dollars that are
uncleaned. And that's actually something thatSpotify is looking to reconcile on their end
(17:18):
with their royalty streams. So it'sthe industry has tried to do a lot
to get ahead of some issues,but there's also a lot of catching up.
And so with this new Spotify updatewith how they're paying out royalties,
it seems to be long term goodnews in my opinion. Are you talking
(17:38):
about the how Spotify tracks need toreach the threshold of a thousand plays before
the payout or yes? Actually yes, So you brought this to my attension
in early December, and basically Spotifyis changing how they pay out royal teas
(18:00):
to combat a number of issues,three issues specifically, And so I actually
did a lot of research. Ihave my notes I looked at. It
was a Forbes article you sent memy way called Spotify's royalty model tries to
keep up with the rapid rise ofnew music. By Bill Rosenblack. Great
article. It's really extensive, it'sfairly accurate. I actually went out and
(18:23):
I printed Spotify's blog post on thesame thing. Here's the New York articles.
This is how I operate. Andjust to kind of go overview what
brief overview of what Spotify's doing.The title of their blog is modernizing our
royalty system to drive an additional onebillion dollars towards emerging and merging, towards
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emerging and professional artists. And thiscame out they announced this on November twentieth,
twenty twenty three. So they saidthere's three there's three issues that they're
trying to counter with some polyes.They stay that there's three particular dreams on
the royalty pool that have now reacheda tipping point. And so they've been
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collaborating with artists, distributors, independentlabels, major labels, label distributors,
and artists and their teams to introducenew policies to one further deter artificial streaming,
two better distribute small payments that aren'treaching artists, and three rain and
those attempting to game the system withnoise. They are anticipating this to be
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kind of a long term solution forsome larger issues. I say noise,
I could not just be preemptively gettingready for AI music. That's going to
be just pumping out list of terms. Baby. This is so noise tracks.
(19:51):
They're defined as a genre of musicthat is characterized characterized by the expressive
use of noise. And what's becomean issue is for Spotify, in order
to generate the old model, inorder to generate a revenue stream, in
order to get a royalty credit,it has to be at least I think
(20:12):
thirty seconds long. So what peoplewere doing is they were putting in thirty
second long tracks of just like noise, like whale sounds or whatever. This
is what they define as it's calledfunctional music, background noise, things that
people used to help them sleep.So yes, as they're shortening whale sound
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tracks to thirty seconds and then theystack them consecutively in a playlist without listeners
noticing, so that they earn outsizedpayments. So the noise recordings beyond the
track length, they're valued in thesame way as music recordings. So what
Spotify is doing to address that isthey're increasing the minimum track length of functional
(20:56):
noise recordings to two minutes. Functionalcontent is defined as music which, when
properly administered, accomplishes specific predetermined endsother than entertainment or pleasure. So not
only are they increasing the track lengthto requirement for two minutes, they were
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also going to work with licensers tovalue noise streams at a fraction of the
value of music streams, so functionalmusic will only pay I think what I
gathered was about a quarter of twentyfive percent of what a music stream will
pay out. What you have goingon is this is when stories started putting
in this the self checkout aisles andlike, yeah, you saw them coming
(21:38):
up, you know what ten fifteenyears ago. Now, people, this
is what I would do. Youyou get your your basket of goods or
groceries, and you check you know, three or four things, and then
you'll check out the other five orsix things, and you're you get a
you know, a fifty dollars ribbystake for you know, essentially the price
(22:02):
of a stick of gum. Butthere's people that are gaming the system,
and it sounds like that's what's happened, Like what oh it is? I
use this what's their name? Wolfpeck? Totally this is a completely different scenario
because this is an actual band oflike you know, these are musicians,
these aren't people that are curating functionalnoise. But they had they had created
(22:25):
a track really early on in Spotify'slike usage. I think this is back
in like twenty twelve, but theybasically created a track of just silent,
an album of just silent songs.But these are instances of people gaming,
if you will, the Spotify royaltypayout system, which is I mean good
(22:48):
on them too. At the time, Yeah, it was. It made
sense because the royalty payment system wasit didn't make any sense. It was
corrupt, and even if it waslegit, it's the royalty payment system they
had in place, wasn't It wasn'tsupportive of independent people, independent artists,
small artists not making a lot ofmoney. One thing Spotify is doing is
(23:11):
they're actually going to they're changing uptheir payment the royalty payment model, so
what they had originally been doing.This is from the Forbes article, the
way they describe how they're paying it. So major labels have been pushing for
lately. It's a so called artistcentric royalty system. The traditional royalty scheme
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is the pro rata royalty scheme that'sdefined as each party or person receives their
fair share in proportion to the wholekeywords being in proportion meaning out of one
hundred thousand streams. If you,if you're strong, one hundred thousand streams
total in a quarter for Spotify,if you only accounted for two hundred and
(23:55):
twenty five streams, right, well, you're not getting paid for two hundred
and twenty five individual streams. You'regetting paid whatever percentage that two hundred and
twenty five is out of the totalhole. It's your share, your share
of your percentage to share. Yeah, and so people had issue with that
early on because they're like, no, we should be getting paid per stream,
which is a legitimate business model ona smaller scale, But when you
(24:18):
have a large company that's accounting formillions of streams in a quarter, it's
kind of a necessity to do it. I mean, it sucks, but
that's just kind of how it is. It's oranges too, because yeah,
one hundred thousand streams for my band, for example, is astronomical, right,
compared to one hundred thousand streams forFuture or Donald Glover. That doesn't
(24:40):
our childish cambino, you know,right, So sorry the new model.
Let me just specify and I apologize, the artist centric model. Royalty buckets,
you know, the money you'll collectit in a given term, are
defined for each user's plays and paidout proportionally to the user's subscription fee.
(25:03):
So you use Spotify, do youpay for Spotify me personally? Yeah?
Do you pay for no ads?I do? I have a premium account?
Yeah? Yeah, So like howmuch do you spend in a month?
Uh, they just raised it,but I think it was for a
long time. It was eleven ninetynine. I think they just raised it
up to twelve ninety nine or thirteen. Still a great deal to get all
the music you could ever listen to. Oh, it's a fantastic They just
(25:26):
added they just added books. Theyjust added audio books to Spotify previeum account
too. Yeah yeah, so likekind of combating with like Audible. So
you're just paying a flat fee.And the reason why, I'll tell you
this Professor Teguard and Robert Teguard andwe were talking. We were talking about
this, we were talking about streamouts, and he's like, this was
(25:47):
part of the pay structure of Spotify'sprevious royalty payout. He said they pay
higher on if you're if you havea listener who has a premium account who
is streaming. The more the morepeople that are premium subscribers, the more
pulled money Spotify has because they makeI think it's the eighty twenty rule when
(26:11):
it comes to close to it,or maybe seventy thirty, but eighty percent
of Spotify users they make okay.Spotify makes eighty percent of its revenue from
the twenty percent of people that aresubscribers actual paid premium sizege okay or might
it might it might be a biggerit might be ninety, but like there's
(26:34):
not a ton most Spotify users arenot paid subscribers, right, and so
that money gets made up for inthe ads as well. So so the
way that the artist centric scheme youyou pay twelve bucks a month. And
the example these in the Forbes articleis you play sixty percent Tailor Swift,
have forty percent Doja Cat in agiven month. I don't think I've listened
(26:59):
to any Taylor Swift this year sofar. I mean it's January third,
so I mean, but last year, but last year I listened to quite
a bit of Yeah Nights. Sosixty percent of your twelve dollars goes to
Taylor Swift, and that goes tothe labels, and that goes to Taylor's
to whatever, and the forty percentwill go to Dojakat's label. So it's
not per streames, not per percentageof total money brought, it's how much
(27:25):
did you listen to? The otherissue the other thing I shouldn't call it
an issue, but the other thingis every user's contribution to the royalty pool
is counted as one thousand streams,so that you could listen to three thousand
tracks, but they're only going totake the average listens of one thousand songs
(27:45):
that you listen to, and itcould be ten or one thousand songs in
a month. What they say inthe Forbes article, artist centric royalties were
ward professionally committed artists with high fanengagement and loyal followings. They discouraged various
techniques from artificially inflating play counts,including streaming fraud, as well as tactics
(28:06):
such as creating songsal soul purpose ofgetting them on the algorithmically generated playlist.
Although artists centric royalties originally appealed mainlyto indie musicians, and labels. The
major labels have been getting more interestedin them lately because they helped discourage functional
content, and we discussed functional contentearlier. So that payment model serving to
(28:29):
help out the artists who aren't makingas much money. You know, say
you only listen to indie artists,Well they're going to get a higher percentage
of the money you pay because ifyou listen to them more so than the
pop guys. So it does kindof even the playing field, at least
it appears. So now, onething they mentioned was streaming fraud. Do
(28:52):
you know stream what streaming fraud is? I had done a little bit of
reading on it because I feel likesome of this, some of these new
policies of the streaming structure, thatstructure that Spotify's rolling out or has rolled
out, uh is in anticipation ofthe amount of music created by AI,
(29:18):
because I feel like that they're settingthat they're setting the table, they're setting
some sort of precedence of just kindof like the functional noise, because if
we have yet to see, Imean, there's probably gonna be court cases.
I mean, there already have beena couple with like visual art,
but there I don't know of anywith audio right there, there's gonna be
(29:42):
a storm, like a flood ofAI generated music that there. People are
gonna look at this. People thatare much smarter than me and have much
more time are gonna look at thisnew payout structure and they're gonna say,
all right, how how can IIt's just gaming their system, right,
(30:03):
because at the end of the day, there's not actual people that there's a
lot of algorithms and bots that youare right running these mega corporations. So
people are going to figure out likewhat hoops they need to jump through so
they can trigger a royalty payout withAI generated music, and then they're going
to create that end mass. Yeah, So streaming fraud and artificial streaming,
(30:26):
it's it's a lot of One thingthey'd use is they use AI. They
run bots to stream, they playthe same songs over and over. They'll
use identity theft to generate false playsin a real users' names. They'll upload
famous artist materials as if it's theirown. But the other thing too is
that, like you said, youuse AI and generate just a massive amount
(30:48):
of music and upload it, andthen this new payment method should help fight
back against that because if you're onlycounting it streams per user, then you
can run as many bots as youwant playing that song over and over and
over. It's it's all they're goingto get is twelve bucks. The second
(31:11):
scenario that you mentioned, which issomeone that isn't that artist uploading that artist
music onto Spotify, I've seen thathappen. Really there are and there's other
companies that do this. They doaggregate. So if you see do you
remember when you used to go intoTarget? And I might age myself.
And also if you are gen Zor younger, you may not understand this,
(31:33):
but in Target they used to havethose like big plastic things in front
of a CD case that had allthe CDs as like like a picture and
you press the thumb nail like athumbnail and they're all compilation CDs. They
were compilation CDs of like Elton Johnor they were like Celtic you know music,
you know whatever. A lot ofthese aggregate companies sounds of the Serengetti
(31:57):
sounds of it, and it's exactlythe or like Pure Moods is a perfect
example. The Pure Moods CD fromthe nineties that had like Enya and the
X files theme that kind of shit. There are aggregates playlist aggregates that do
that on Spotify now, and Ihave had in my previous band a couple
(32:17):
of those. One of them iscalled zen Hop, where I would submit
my music to sound libraries and Iwould get accepted for the sound libraries,
and then they get curated off ofthe sound library. Like once you're in
a sound library, right like dependingon like the contract that you have with
the whatever sync light library that you'reusing, they they sell it, you
(32:42):
know, to they have their contractwith it. So I some of these
aggregant companies bought our music to puton an aggregate CD compilation, and there's
just a couple of them out there. Do they pay you? I mean,
I think what they do is theyuse the ISRC your International sound Recording
(33:04):
Code whatever, yeah, embedded intothe song. So it doesn't matter if
they are publishing it on an aggregate. We're still getting the streams off of
that. That's interesting. I havealso heard of artists just having their stuff
just completely ripped off, yeah,you know, uploaded in other countries and
people are just generating streams. That'swork, that's not theirs. But I
(33:25):
think you were discussing earlier was theartificial streaming. Wait a couple of First
of all, can you imagine someonelike just uploading Beyonce's Lemonade like like under
their own account. I did heara little bit of Okay, so I
thought of this. We haven't Thenew song that I just put out with
my band Breezy is called Lemonade,and I had didn't even think about how
(33:46):
like, Beyonce has an album calledLemonade. We spell ours with an A.
It's misspelled intentionally because it's supposed tobe a little kid writing lemonade.
Stand anyway, Yeah, yeah,it's ours. Is spelled lemon e m
O N A I D E likeeight. And then I was like,
oh, I wonder, and Iwonder if anyone's gonna accidentally type in lemonade
(34:12):
the way we spilled it and they'regonna listen to our song and how many
how many streams will get from peoplethat I really want to listen to beyond
But then then they just listen tothis shitty This is dog shit, but
uh, there's a cer so muchof it going on. Also, this
is and I don't know the validityof this, but I have had this
conversation, like how even the majors, even the big those numbers for the
(34:35):
like huge artists. Yeah, Imean not Taylor Swift, but like a
lot of record labels have bought itin the past, have boughted their artists
two to get beyond the top onehundred, their top fifty. Jay Z
and Beyonce did that with title whenthey when they first came spit. I
used Beyonce's Lemonade unintentionally, but rememberthere were these there were these scandal where
(35:00):
they artificially inflated their streams said whenupon release they had like several thousand streams,
as like, no, the albumhas it like mathematically did that up?
The album did not. It wasn'tout long enough to generate the amount
of streams if like every person onearth had streamed it fifty times fifty times,
or like the numbers didn't make anysense. Yeah, like first week
(35:23):
you generated this many hours of streaming, Like that doesn't make no. Not
everyone's listening to Lemonade. It's thesame trick and just a different medium.
Because what publishers used to do toget on the New York Times bestseller list
in the you know, eighties,and nineties. Is that publishing companies would
(35:43):
print all the books that you know, Michael, I'm just you know,
picking an off. Michael Crichton isreleasing The Lost World the publishing company.
I'm not saying he did this.I'm just saying this is this example,
the publishing company would print all thebooks out, and then they would buy
all of the books themselves, likeninety percent of them. They would buy
all the books, so drop youknow, a million bucks to buy five
(36:08):
hundred thousand copies of the book,and then they would resell it back to
bookstore. So technically, yeah,it's a two dollars book. It's a
bestseller because or the publishing company wouldhave someone else, like a rich benefactor,
buyout, and that is that's likea method that even happened. I
(36:28):
don't know if this is true either, but my basis swears by it.
He said that Taylor Swift got herstart because her dad was a rich lawyer
or real station or whatever, andhe essentially did that with her first batch
of ten thousand records. You needto fact check that, because he tells
me that story all the time.Oh we needna Taylor Swift, and I
love Taylor Swift dearly. She isa cherished name and musician in this household.
(36:52):
But that this is I don't knowif we've done an episode on like
privilege and how money fuck runs thegame? Like Yeah, her dad Oka,
he's a former stockbroker for Merrill Lynch, and her mother is a former
housemaker who worked for previously worked asa mutual fund marketing executive. Her maternal
(37:15):
grandmother was an professional opera singer.As Kurt is reading and learning more about
the corruption that is the music industry, just remember that it is no fault
of your own the fact that youare not a rock star and you're not
Taylor Swift or you know, thenext big thing, because the majority of
us don't come from lavish amounts ofmoney and privilege. So always remember create
(37:38):
art for yourself and for the sakeof creating, because you don't have millions
of dollars to throw at your upcomingrelease. That's it. She was one
of Big Machines first signings, andher father purchased a three percent stake in
the company for an estimated one hundredand twenty thousand dollars. But that's really
all I can I mean again,this is just Wikipedia, So who knows
(38:00):
what they'd have on there. Yeah, I need a citation for that one.
And that's why I breakfast it withmy basis recites this story. I
don't know if you're Jay, Ilove that man, Jay, Yeah,
I mean you're right, Like,if you don't have money, you're in
you're in for a hard time.Uh, trying to cut your teeth in
(38:22):
the industry. But for those ofyou who are looking for an opportunity to
record an album, please go checkout the Recording Fund. Max Allen has
already signed and released uh several artists. Uh. It's like every week I'm
seeing a new release and these aregreat tracks, great musicians. The Recording
Fund. Please look it up.If you want to sign, if you
(38:42):
want to write and release some music, you do have to apply. It's
through a grant. Check out ourepisode or reinterview Max aland from the Recording
Fund. Fantastic opportunity and it's aservice that is dearly needed in this industry.
There needs to be more a representationand a way to make your music
and release your music outside of thebig label model. I mean it's just
(39:05):
we were talking about the change ofSpotify's making and that's going to help some
But in terms of exposure and havingthings professionally done, if you don't have
the necessary money, resources and time, I mean, this is a way
to do it. It is danting, it really is. And as someone
who is just recently, I've beendoing this for fifteen years and I took
a break and I've been doing itagain for the last two years. With
a grain of salt because I'm notdoing it for any kind of like lofty
(39:30):
goal of fame, fortune or recordlabel. I'm just doing it because I
want to. I want my artto exist and I want other people to
communicate with it. But it isa lot of work. It is a
daunting amount of work, especially nowlike there is some levity and transparency when
it comes to TikTok and like thiskind of like intimacy that folks can have
(39:51):
with the folks that they but likebuild it an audience and finding your audience.
Just create. Just just make music, folks, because it is a
lot. It is a lot.Yeah, And don't carry the burden of
the world on your shoulders. Havefun with it. At the end of
the day, music is fun.Yeah. I was watching I get a
lot of like surfing and skateboard videoson my My algorithm on Instagram is like
(40:12):
all over the places like food.Thanks to you, Kurty, I get
a lot of good like chef.Yeah, the content of like folks cooking
is so good now. But Ihad one of this Japanese skateboarder who's been
skating for like thirty years, andhis tricks aren't what you see at like
the X Games. Like when youthink of like professional skateboarding, you think
(40:32):
of people like Tony Hawk jumping up, you know, thirty feet in the
air and spinning around and doing allthese crazy grabs and tail grabs and Betty
Hannas. This guy was literally justlike going up a curb, scooting around,
putting his hand on the ground anddoing like these fun It looked like
fun. And the first comment onthis people were like, there's a couple
of people that are like, oh, that's not professional skateboard. And the
(40:54):
first comment was yeah, because aboard that is screwed onto skates isn't supposed
to be fun like that. Andthat was so profound to me because we
have commodified and commercialized yea, hear, everything that's supposed to be fun.
It's just it sounds like you're describinglike freestyle skateboarding. Rodney Mullen's like the
(41:16):
big guy on that one. Iremember seeing suf about him. But yeah,
even dare even goofy that Rodney.This guy just like he was just
doing the goofiest, funniest stuff.And that's what and that's what matters.
Man I, man I, Irecorded something the other day. I was
just for my guitar instructor, andit was just to kind of showcase what
it, what it things I've beendoing. And I had so much fun
(41:37):
putting this thing together. And Iwent to bed at like midnight and like
that sounded great. I had alot of fun. Listen to the next
morning total, in my opinion,total garbage. But it had fun.
You know. I guess it's thesame thing. It's a fun time and
that's all that mattered. Don't puttoo much stuff into it, like it
takes a lot of resources. That'swhat the And we've talked about the illusion
(42:00):
and the American dream that was perpetuatedthrough like the rock star like oh everybody
could be a rock star is toxicand it's a myth, and it's also
like you are just one person withthree other dudes that smoke pot in your
garage or you know, whatever yourmusic may be. It's just it's just
you and a handful of people.These people Beyonce, Taylor Swift, any
(42:21):
and any any of your smaller touringbat act bands throughout the country have teams
of people. They do teams.They have publicists, they have they have
writers, they have lawyers, theyhave financ finan finance people. I don't
know what you call those people.Budget. I don't know budget. And
(42:45):
that's the thing that's a good pointLeo too. It's not it isn't viable.
You're not going to be a millionairemaking music anymore unless you're extremely lucky
and your parents have their name inblue on Wikipedia. Like, it's not
it's not going to be a thing. You got to do what we're doing,
have a nine to five job,and you just got to keep this
(43:07):
as your passion on the side.But I think that also removes a lot
of the pressure off of it too. You know, if this isn't how
you get your bread and butter,you know, if this is how,
if this is just something you dofor fun, there's a lot less pressure.
I think there's a lot more freedomto be creative. That being said,
I mean, there's a whole groupof people who work in the production
music side of the industry and theymake it. A lot of them make
(43:30):
a really healthy living. That's aviable way to go if you're not set
on being a rock star pop star. But that being said, if that's
not your goal and you want torelease music, I mean, it seems
that, like Spotify, getting backto our topic, Spotify is making some
changes to at least make it alittle more viable. The reality is almost
anyone can record and release a songnowadays. You don't have to necessarily purchase
(43:52):
an instrument to do it either.You can do it all digitally I mean
your phone. Yeah, oh yeah. I mean it's not going to be
super convenient, but you can doit overall. I think I think Spotify
is making some good changes here,And I need to specify when I say
making music, I don't mean usingAI to make music solely. I think
(44:14):
AI serves is a good tool asa jumping off point as a way to
start a project. But if you'rejust releasing artificial music and you're trying to
generate streams, honestly, shame onyou, really really shame on you.
And one thing Spotify is doing isthey're actually working with companies to improve better
AI detection technology, which I thinkif we can put an ISRC code into
(44:42):
music, I think AI companies shouldbe compelled to have something similar in anything
they are generators created. There's somesort of digital water market. I mean,
that's what an IRC code is backto. Because I went down the
rabbit hole. I'm not readdit rightnow talking about Taynis with stop on the
example that I gave, well,the reason why Jay my basic the basis
(45:05):
for Breezy always brings it up isbecause I'm like, oh, if you
guys listened to Midnights the new tailorSwift and He's like, he listens to
Taylor Swift just de facto because hehas two daughters that are like five and
eight, sou And I'm like,I love Taylor Swift. But I down
the rabbit hole of like some okay, so some of that has validity.
I think it was a rumor generatedgoing down REDDITU because Scott her dad or
(45:30):
did buy like a three percent shareinto it. But anyway, no bashing
on Taylor Swift I'm gonna do mydarness to find if there. I don't
think there is any validity to it. It just sounds like some stone stone
or ramblings of like my one ofmy good friends. But that very viable
conspiracy theory. Yeah, it makessense. It makes sense in like folks
(45:54):
that have the means to inflate theirnumbers. I mean, you're you're always
gonna put your that's just like kindof a wealthy way of putting your best
foot forward, like you know,uh, but people do do that when
it comes to streaming, like inflight members. Yeah, yeah, they
do. And that's part of streamingfraud and they're doing it out with artificial
(46:15):
streaming. One way they're combating thattoo, is like if you you know,
say I released a song on Spotify. Truthfully, hardly anyone's gonna listen
to it. What Spotify mentioned isthat they've you know, over one hundred
millions, one hundred million tracks intheir catalog. Tens of millions have been
streamed between one and one thousand timesover the past year, and those tracks
(46:36):
on average generate three cents a month, and labels and distributors require minimum ount
to withdraw two to fifty dollars twodollars to fifty dollars per withdrawal, and
banks charge a fee for the transactionone to twenty dollars per withdrawal. So
those small payments are often forgotten about, which goes back to what we're talking
about with Harry Fox. A lotof our mechanical licensing fees too, and
(46:57):
so see yeah, yeah, yeah, So it's like it isn't It's not
beneficial for people to release music ifthey're not going to get to listen,
You're not gonna make money. Youwant to get a check for three cents?
Okay, Well that's there's been athat's a that's a negative. What
uh three dollars and three cents foreveryone else involved? You know me.
(47:22):
I mean music is immediately a sunkencost the second that you create it,
record it, master it is.You're already in the hole before you even
get it out. Well, thefact is too, you do want to
see a return on investment if youintend on doing this one. So what
Spotify is doing is they're up moving, They're creating a threshold. You have
to have a thousand streams on aparticular track in order in twelve months to
(47:45):
generate recorded royalties so I mean,what, what do you think the implications
of that are or what is thatWhat do you think that's going to do
to artists who are releasing music?You know, I don't think much is
going to change, Honestly, Idon't think I think if you're I think
it'll change for those who are tryingto make an income, some type of
income off of this. I feellike a lot of independent artists have already
(48:08):
jumped on the fact that they haveto tour or deliver a Patreon or have
merch or figure out some other revenuestream that is not predicated on streaming.
Because even in I mean, likewe're still talking about point zero zero three
sense per stream even after you reachthat threshold. Yeah, so you're you're
(48:30):
dealing in like fractions of a scent. So like, I don't think anything
is going to be drastically changed,even for the artists that are well intentioned
that are trying to with that said, like don't throw the baby out with
the bathwater, like go ahead,continue to invest in like sending people to
Spotify like that. The goal formusicians now is relevancy as far as like
(48:54):
access make sure your music is onband Camp is on SoundCloud, it's on
Spotify, because even though Spotify isthe biggest player in the game, they
don't have six point or you know, eight billion people that are using their
app. Yeah, their market shares. They actually Apple's like nipping at their
heels like it's coming up probably andthen like they're trying to but catch up
(49:17):
to Spotify. But I just Ithink that this is a call to musicians
to just be ubiquitous with your withwhere you're putting your music, make it
accessible. I got it. Ieven got to the point of my last
band where I was like, ifyou don't have streaming, if you don't
you don't have a cell phone,I will burn the city for you.
Or if you I'll give you thedrop box files of our MP three so
(49:38):
that you can listen to it.Like I want you to have access to
it because it is in my mind, and I feel like this is the
general consensus of a lot of indiebands and a lot of indie musicians.
We've realized that there is no revenue, there's no money to be made in
this mile hole. So instead oflike gripe and piss and moan, which
(49:59):
I do, do that and makefunny like memes and videos about it.
That's just to make light of thesituation. I'm going to rather focus my
energy into something that's more productive,which is creating more accessibility from the people
that want to listen or that Iknow will listen if it reaches them.
Those are your dedicated followers. Butyou're also going to have people who are
(50:21):
just going to stream you on Spotify, and that's I think that turns this
more into a passive form of incomefor these indie artists too. Right,
Okay, you're not actively trying tomake money off you can't force people to
stream your music. What you cando is you can go out there and
do the legwork like you said,you can tour, you can promote yourself,
(50:43):
you can connect with your fans.That will actually ultimately increase your exposure.
Right yeah, so naturally more people, Hey, we're going to listen
to Oh, well, they're onSpotify. So yeah. I think what's
coming to mind to me right nowis it seems that one of the issues
we may have been having with ourperspective Spotify and streaming is trying to use
that as an active, an activepayment model, an active way to an
(51:07):
active income stream when really it shouldhave been passive this whole time. How
can you increase your streams? Goout and be a musician, Go play
live, Go talk about yourself,Go do those things that promote yourself.
Go go be that person that actsas the means that that that is engaging
with your community and your fans.Be your own ambassador. Yeah. I
(51:29):
think that's one hundred percent. Andwe're we're saying the same thing, I
think in different different ways. It'slike, rather than focus your energy on
like this is did I miss everythingyou just said and say exactly, I
think what we're saying the exact samething is like you focus on your craft,
focus on building you know, youraudience, and your just bettering your
(51:51):
outreach. Yeah, and in thatthe byproduct of that is you're going to
have more exposure and more folks justas a by product, are going to
stream your music. Now, that'snot going to get to the point like
just sheer numbers and not gonna getto the point where you're going to be
making millions of dollars a month,that's sure, but at least you're you
(52:12):
have some sort of passive income.I mean I can give you I think
with my last band, Castle Pines, within like an eight year period,
we made eleven dollars eight to eightto ten year period, I think,
which is not bad. But that'snot like you're not paying you're not paying
the bills with that. That's money. That's eleven hundred dollars that went back
(52:36):
into the band, right, it'sfreezy. We've only put out four songs
I think we've had. I thinkwe've made like seven sixty five bus dollars
in the last year. And solike, as independent musicians that are listening
to this, take that put thatback into you know, is it recording,
buy a new microphone or yeah,throw it towards your your investment in
(53:00):
music. Michael with the show withlike the podcast at least has always been
to get it to pay for itself. Can you want to guess how much
money we've made we've been around.We're going on three and a half years,
four years this year. Guess howmuch money we made four years?
Leo, guess Ooh across all platforms. I want to say fifty bucks?
(53:24):
Oh Man, fourteen thirty five?Hey, yeah, at least in double
digits. Well we're not. Butthat's the thing, like we're all.
We can't. We can't promote theshows effectively as we would like. This
is the first thing we recorded inmonths. It's a different medium. Also,
(53:45):
Kurt, don't beat yourself up.You had your second kid going on.
We survived through through a pandemic.We did, We did, dude.
We're sitting here recording now and wenever forgot about the show. I
have merch. Yeah, I don'tthink this is I always use this analogy
and it's I beat it up becauseI use it so much. Music as
(54:05):
a marathon, not a sprint likeyeah. And also it doesn't have a
destination, right create the creative actdoes not have a like you could set
goals, but you're never going toget rid of that itch to be creative,
to create, right, whether itbe the podcast or music or playing
whatever the medium is, Like,don't don't have this. That's why people
(54:29):
leave stuff, right, Oh,I tried the music thing, or I
tried the podcast thing, or Itried this, or find a form of
just longevity and being. You know, I need to add too. There's
no age limit on it either.No, we always think about like we
well, John Lennon and all theBeatles, they were in their twenties early
(54:52):
twenties, and they were rock worldrock stars, and all of our like
musical idols were all young when theystarted. But I mean reaither By read
what they were going through. Like, so many of us are just working
stiffs, you know, we're justtrying to get by because the economy is
broken. There is no room formajority of people to be like, I'm
(55:15):
going to be a musician and makemy money that way. It's well,
do you want a family? Doyou want a house? Can't do that?
You know, you have to bea not only be if you want
to a professional musician. Not onlydo you have to be top of your
line, you have top of theline, one of the best musicians out
there in the ten mile radius twentymile radius. You have to be practicing
(55:37):
your instrument twelve hours a day,and you need to find a way to
make money doing that. And whenyou finally get there, when you're finally
in the top ten list of allthe record labels and all the recording studios
in La guess how much money youare making studio apartment? You can afford
a studio apartment in the city.It just isn't it isn't viable songwriting farms
(56:00):
aren't the thing anymore unless you're exceptional, exceptionally good, So it just it's
kind of pushed down to a hobbybecause the way the economy is, it
just can't be rewarded the way itused to be. And that's okay,
that's okay, which always makes mewild with like a mixture of anger and
(56:23):
just wanting to scream when I seethere's so many music gurus on social media.
Now these are the top ten thingsyou need to do if you want
to make money with your music.It's like, okay, you could follow
those things, but those are justthings you should learn in general. Like
it's the the adage of just danglingthe carrot in front of folks because we're
(56:46):
addicted to this system that doesn't work, that's broken. You call me the
systems of you know, we're talkingabout Spotify, we're talking about the music
industry. You know, cross outthat and input any other system that we're
currently seeing crumble in front of uspolitical systems, monetary systems. But when
(57:14):
I see these gurus or folks thatare like they know how to advertise and
promote really well, say that,like, you know, pay thirty nine
ninety nine that are getting well intentionedfolks. Now I'm going to make a
comment they might you know, isacademia. That is academy that on the
long term. No, that's terrible. I shoudn't say. I mean I
(57:37):
made, I made, I madefriends with it. You know I met
you in college. Yeah, it'sfunny you mentioned that because the we just
got a comment in the chat andhello, sorry to bothering you. I
want to offer a promotion for yourchannel, viewers, followers, views,
chatbots, et cetera. The priceis lower than any competitor competitor, the
(58:00):
quality is guaranteed to be the bestflexible and convenient order management panel, chat
panel everything in your hands, liketrying to sell us ways to monetize make
more money off of stuff off ofthis that we do for Yeah, it's
funny how much money I probably spentlike the first four or five years.
And I've kind of poked fun atthem. Submit hub is a is an
(58:22):
example of Yeah, I like them, but I'm also dubious of some of
their like some of their blog writerson there. That one they don't know
what they're talking about when it comesto like musical terminology. But there are
there are things out there that youcan pay for services that are legit that
(58:45):
will college playlisting or college pitches,those are services that you can pay for
that will. But there's a wholeeconomy of kind of nefarious and gross tactics,
kind of like that chat that yougot, that's probably a bot that
sent you that. Oh for sure, yeah that to just be be very
(59:08):
weary, weary and dubious musicians andcreators out there. If you're going to
put your hard earned money towards somethinglike I put money towards promotion, but
it's a combination. This is mynumber one thing back to like if you
want to grow your Spotify following andgrow your audience. My number one thing
(59:29):
that I tell every single person whenthey asked me, like, oh,
how'd you get that blog right up? Or how did you get that playlist?
Write your own one sheet, createyour own one like, be your
own pr like you know your songsmore intimately than anybody else. And with
AI, there's you can use thesame tools that corporations are using to your
(59:50):
advantage. Write three or four sentencesabout your new song, moods, the
way it makes you feel, whatthe lyrics are about kind of like the
sonic landscape. Oh it exists inthe nineties, or this is the eighties
sheens and pop song pop that inAI have it. Spit out a professional
music pr pitch for you, likea one sheet. Use that as your
pitch when you're reaching out. Ifyou're using it on submit hub, if
(01:00:13):
your submit hub's a great place tostart. But if you're sending emails out
you have you have that and thenif anybody asks about your music, you
can put that description up on youknow, I don't even have a website
we use We use like a linktree kind of deal that comes with our
publisher. But yeah, anyway,b be your own advocate for your music
(01:00:36):
and in turn, your Spotify streamsand your Spotify revenue will increase passively.
Passively. Yeah, you're not gonnaWhat are your What are musical goals for
the New year? Tangible to recorda full length VP? We're Do you
know who what jackpots where? JackpotStudios is in Portland organ studio. Do
(01:01:02):
you know Tapeop Magazine? Yes,one of the creators of tape Pop Magazine
runs Jackpop Studios here in Portland.Or one of the writers of tape op
pretty sure and Elliott Smith recorded inJackpot anyway, it's both my drummer and
(01:01:24):
my bassis. I've recorded there.We have nine or ten new songs.
We want to go in there recorda live album three days. Jackpot studios
never heard of them. I shouldhave cool, one of the great American
studios. Promote. Promote your ship, promoted on The show Man promoted more
(01:01:45):
push it out, Baby, pushit out, like the post coffee morning
Deuce. I was trying to thinkof one that you gave it to me,
so thank you, Minus. I'mgonna try. I'm trying. I'm
experimenting with new lyrics, writing nonsense. I think I've I feel like I
have several tiny little epiphanies that arestarting to make the songwriting process easier for
(01:02:08):
me. And yeah, dude,like I told you yesterday, I was
listening to Chicago. I was tryingto write this song. I had this
really great little melody of this greatmusic, but I don't have the words.
I was trying to write something andit just hated it. And I
realized I've been trying to write aboutlike abstract things like feelings and situations and
nonsense stuff and then Sufyan Stevens Chicagocame on and I was like, Sky
(01:02:34):
wrote a song about he used acity his inspiration and he wrote about a
road trip to the city, youknow, And I'm like, that's I
don't know why, Leo. Thefirst thing in my mind came was the
DMV. So I'm working on asong about the DMV and it's coming easier
because I picked something tangible and concreteto write about it. Yeah, I
thought that was a great idea.I I think I hearted your comment because
(01:02:58):
I was like in the middle oflike a like, ah, nice,
I like that those are those aregreat writing exercises, man, because I
there's no it's it's just having differentcolors in your like arsenal of like oh,
I'm gonna write this song this wayor and whatever, and when inspiration
hits and then you have you're betterequipped to follow that down to the path
(01:03:22):
that it needs to go to becausethere's not one size fits all. Some
people do it. I mean theSteve Albinis of the world that like are
very structured and treat it like aplumbing job. Yeah, you you also
have you learn too. It's justlike music. It's just like learning,
like, oh, it's easier forme to play the G chord and do
(01:03:44):
this, and like you figure outyour own kind of like way with it
and lyrics. Lyricism and songwriting isthe same way. Yeah, have you
read how to write one song?I wrote? I read like halfway through
it on a plane trip, andthen you gotta you gotta finish it.
You gotta read it and again.I'll put it on my I'll put it
on my I'll put it in mycue. I'm really sad. I'm not
(01:04:08):
sad. I'm happy. I letmy friend so Fever Deacon is a producer,
pianist DJ in Portland. His nameis Sean McClure, one of my
best friends. He lives up here. He's featured on the new Breezy single
Lemonade, just came out a coupleof weeks ago. The ending of that
song is like kind of like noisecore, post rock, post hardcore, like
(01:04:32):
almost death metally, or just likekind of a wall of noise and I
had like really soft screaming in thebackground, and he kind of made the
sound skape behind it of like abunch of oscillating synths, and then we
took there's a famous sermon in theBaptist faith or like Christian faith, is
called sinners in the hang of It, sinners in the hands of an Angry
(01:04:56):
God. And it was during theFire and Brimstone period that that sermon is
really popular, and there's a recordingof it on him. And I went
down the rabbit hole of the Libraryof Congress, which is they have some
they have a whole section of copyrightfree sounds that you can use, and
(01:05:16):
that was one of them. Andwe took that sermon because Lemonade is about
kind of like the unlearning of religioustrauma. More specifically a friend that I
knew who was a youth pastor whotook his own life. So it's about
like self harm. Yeah, Sowe used that sound clip from the Library
(01:05:38):
of Congress of centers in the handsof an Angry God, played it backward
and slowed it down and threw aton of reverb and ech on it.
And it's that that's the last likemaybe two seconds of the song. But
oh wow, I gave back towhat we were talking about. I gave
my copy of Jeff Tweety's how toWrite One Song to Fever decon and uh,
(01:06:00):
my friend Sean. So I'm likelooking for the book because it's kind
of like my I always like holdit up and I can't find it because
he has it so and he's loveit. So that just means you need
to you need to finish a kurt. Okay, okay, I'll uh,
I'll add it to my job.I'm almost done with a book right now.
I'll put that one right next.It's a quick read. It's a
(01:06:23):
quick read, but it's also likea wealth of like coming back to it
because there's so much depth in thereand the exercises that you can just there's
a lot of good stuff. Ifeel like you can you can use.
It's a there's a book of utility. Two great books mentioned in this podcast,
How to Make It The New MusicBusiness by Ari Hurstand and Sinners in
the Hands of the Angry God.How to Write One Song by Jeff Tweety
(01:06:46):
from Loco Leo. I got toget back to work. Yeah, all
right, I appreciate you. Goodtalking to you, and thanks for everyone
who came on to listen, allone of you and it's me. Hey,
okay, totally thought. Thank youlisteners. Want to sign a song?
Yeah, thank you everybody. Forlistening. This is Leander Barrientos and
(01:07:08):
Kirk Bempti, and you're listening tojust one song. H