KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali (Sun, 25 May, 2025)

KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali on Sun, 25 May, 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Of New York shows credit scores dropped by more than
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Researchers said about two million of those previously had favorable
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or credit cards before the delinquencies were reported. It's a
busy holiday weekend at the nation's airports. The TSA says

(00:22):
it expects to screen eighteen million passengers over the extended
Memorial Day weekend. Here's NBC's Marissa Para.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
A lot of travelers on the move here at Chicago
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Speaker 10 (04:54):
A thank you for tuning there for this addition to
Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu a Lei. I am Attorney
Zulu Waalie with the Justice Watch Crew Rosa Nunes, Michael Blau,
Clark and Anderman. This week, like every week, see precial
Just Issues. This week will have our special Memorial Day

(05:17):
broadcasts and joining us is our very special guest, Sergeant
Major Gregory Cocher. Sergeant Major Cocher was is a honorably
retired from the US Army in January the fourteenth, after
twenty fourteenth rather after serving twenty six years and eleven months.
He completed two combat tours in Iraq and received a

(05:40):
Bronze Star for his actions during his tour. He is
also the proud recipient of the Legion of Merit Medal,
Air Assault Badge, and other awards and accommodations he has
received over the course of his career. He was awarded
for his exemplary service by the Richard T. Fields Bar Association,

(06:03):
and he's also been recognized by various elected officials and
including Assembly Member Jose Medina and Assembly Member Sabrina Savantes
for the work he and this foundation is doing in
San Bernardino and Riverside County communities and the impact he
is happened with veterans. Sergeant Major Cocer received their Masters

(06:25):
and Leadership Studies in twenty thirteen from the University of
Texas El Paso. He received his second Matters and Rehabilitation
Counseling from California State University, San Bernardino in September twenty seventeen.
He is very very active in the local community. He
participates as a board member for several nonprofit organizations, and

(06:48):
he is a lifetime member with three different veterans organizations.
The Press Enterprise has written articles about the events and
work he does with veterans in Riverside and San Bernardino Counties.
Sergeant Major Coker is the CEO and co founder of
the Reaching New Heights Foundation, founded in twenty fourteen, shortly
after his retirement from the US Army. After returning back

(07:13):
to southern California, Sergeant Major Cocher took on the challenges
of assistant and mentoring Inland Empire veterans seeking help with
transitioning veterans who suffer from the invisible wounds of war
and find themselves challenged with connecting back into society. Reaching
New Heights Foundation focuses on veterans housing resources, jobs, and education.

(07:36):
The core mission of Reaching New Heights Foundation is serving
those who served, and Sergeant Maker Major Cocher believes that
the truest legacy of his foundation's success will be the
veterans' lives that are changed in the communities that are enriched.
So we definitely appreciate you joining us, Sergeant Maker Major Cocher.

Speaker 11 (08:00):
Yes, can you hear me?

Speaker 12 (08:02):
Yeah? Yes, that can Wow. Uh what what a great,
great intro. I appreciate I could remember all those things
that we were a part of. Right, but but thank you,
thank you. I'm happy to.

Speaker 11 (08:15):
Be here, Okay.

Speaker 10 (08:16):
Yeah, we're definitely honored, honored to have you on this
Memorial Day or specially Memorial Day broadcast. And so I guess,
you know, as far as just for those who are listening,
I mean sometimes I think that we think of Memorial
Day and we kind of just look at it as
just a you know, a three day weekend, you know,

(08:37):
as opposed to really what it what it's, you know,
the the purpose and the meaning behind it. And I
think it was originally known as Decoration Day, and it's
a federal holiday honoring in mourning the US military personnel
who died while serving in the US Armed Forces. It
is observed on the last Monday of May, and traditionally

(09:02):
people visit cemeteries and memorials or Memorial Day to honor
and more than those who died while serving in the
US military. And you know, some people are many volunteers
place American flags on the graves of military personnel in
national cemetary in cemetery, so you know, so it is,

(09:23):
you know, something that uh is a extremely important, at
least from our perspective, tradition that we have here in
the in the in this country recognizing those who gave
the ultimate sacrifice. So I guess, I guess I can
begin with just asking you just generally, you know, what
are your thoughts on Memorial Day and what does it

(09:45):
mean to you?

Speaker 12 (09:47):
Yeah, well, so thank you for that that question. And uh,
it is a very very solemn day. A lot of
times that you as you mentioned that most most people
enjoy as a three day holiday that barbecue and they're
just having really kind of a good time and uh
and and and rightfully so in some respects, but uh,

(10:10):
for me, it's it's it's a very solemn occasion. In fact,
I'm here in my backyard with another UH veteran, and
we're just kind of really sitting and we we we
we just kind of talked about a lot of the
losses that we've seen from various wars that people don't
even remember, uh when we we we I think we
talked about D Day, we talked about Vietnam, we talked

(10:33):
about Korea, and we're just really remembering the sacrifices and
in particular, uh, some of the sacrifices that we our
people have made uh to the to these conflicts into
to America. And so it is a very solemn day
that that I sit and I reminisced, and I and

(10:56):
I paid tribute to homage in deep thoughts, uh, in
deep remembrance, deep sorrow. And that's that's truly what it
means to me is I'm really won't take a look
at the cost, right, the cost of what our service
members put for this this great country.

Speaker 11 (11:17):
Right. Yeah, I mean I think that a lot of times.

Speaker 10 (11:20):
I mean, I know, when it comes to you know, recognize,
I mean, I guess it means a little bit different things.
I guess you can say to different people, but you know,
one of the things that at least you know from
my perspective when it comes to the issue of patriotism
and define it. I mean, and my definition doesn't necessarily

(11:43):
come straight from Websters, you know, dictionary.

Speaker 11 (11:47):
It Basically, the way.

Speaker 10 (11:48):
I look at it is that a patriot is someone
who is willing to, you know, sacrifice for those who
you know may not be able to fight for themselves
nor those and and also as well as those who
believe things that are different, different paradigms and different ideas

(12:12):
and backgrounds and beliefs uh than they have. And I
think that that's I think that and the reason why
I think that is important is that you know, you know,
it's easy and I and I use that word loosely
for the lack of a better term, to fight for
what you believe in. But I think that it's different
when you're fighting for what other people believe in and

(12:35):
given and their right to do so. And I think
that when I think about us, specifically those of African Americans,
is that you know, that was the extra at least
the ultimate patriotism is the fact that in light of
what we were dealing with in this country, we were

(12:57):
still willing to go and fight for people well who
clearly did not in many cases believe what we believed in,
you see what I mean. And I think that, you know,
and I think that special patriotism the fact that we
were able to, you know, in light of what we
were experiencing, was willing to give the ultimate sacrifice.

Speaker 11 (13:21):
That's the first thing.

Speaker 10 (13:22):
And the second thing that for many people, especially in
light of what we experience in this country. You know,
oftentimes you may be asked a question about in light
of you know, the things that have happened, you know,
in the past for us as African Americans, not just

(13:45):
necessarily the past, but things that are going on today
in our country.

Speaker 11 (13:50):
You know, how could you do that? How could you
fight for this country? Right?

Speaker 10 (13:54):
But for me, I have a different perspective, And my
perspective is that I'm whole heart heartedly and I've always
believed that, you know, we built this country, m and
you know, it's not like we're on a foreign land.
I mean, I clearly believe that the greatness of this country,
you know, and is based in large part on the

(14:18):
sacrifices of our ancestors in particular. And I'm not going
to leave or or put at risk a house that
I built, right, That's my perspective, and I feel like
that and I will always feel like that. So I
don't know, I mean, what is your thoughts on that issue.

Speaker 12 (14:40):
I'm in agreement. I think that patriotism is not what
you're born into. It's what you give up, what you give.
I am wholeheartedly in the understanding that you know. There's
a lot of people that will say that they're patriots,
and they may very well be, but I look at
what did you give And first of all, I want
just say thank you for your service, thank you for

(15:03):
you know, all that you've done and what you continue
to do as you know as a United States Marine
and not only serving there but also coming back and
serving in the in the capacities that you serve in
now UH, and I want to commend you and thank
you for that, for being the civil rights advocate of
veteran civil rights advocate or advocate for all. So first

(15:27):
of all, I wanted to thank you for that and
all that you do and your family. Not only this
is what I call for, not only yourself and your activities,
but your family. I think that uh. I want to
commend your daughter for being a part of UH. I
think he's UH. Now the the uh has the honor
of being an attorney as well. And just thank you

(15:49):
for for for for uh for doing that, and and
and and uh really being the kind of father that
showed her uh and then the kind of father that
gave her the idea that that's what she wanted to
be as well. So thank you for that. But when
I look at when I look at patriotism, m h,

(16:12):
what do country?

Speaker 5 (16:13):
Uh?

Speaker 12 (16:15):
M hmners what you do for this country and for others? Uh?
You know, I don't think that it is. And then
it starts its own business and does well. Uh and
then throws the flag out and says, hey, I'm a
I'm a great person because I built this this this

(16:36):
this amazing company here and uh and now I'm a patriot.
So uh, when when I look at patriotism, I look
at what did you do? I mean, when I got
in the military, I wanted to do something greater than me.
I wanted to be a part of something that made
an impact, made a difference. And one of the ways

(16:57):
that I could see that was joined the service, right
and uh, and that was that was bigger than me.
Because as as you as you alluded to and stated
that there are there were rights and things that were
given to others or or widely recognized that wasn't really
widely recognized or accepted for individuals of cost. And so

(17:20):
I don't I don't say that in a in a
way of having an issue or a chip on my shoulder,
But I based that on the reality. It's just a
simple fact that that is the case, uh in in
in in society in some aspects. However, I still believe
that this is the greatest country on earth. I've been

(17:42):
to several different countries, probably as you, and we've seen
what that's like and what it could be like here.
But we have the opportunity to grow. We have the
opportunity to succeed. We have the opportunity to uh to
advance uh if if we were able to uh to
kind of figure it out or apply ourselves. So when

(18:04):
I look at patriotism, I look at what did you
do for this country beyond yourself, beyond your immediate household.
That's a patriot to me. You know, how how how
how much greater than you were in your immediate environment.
How did you impact the lies the society this country

(18:26):
beyond what you've done and your personal gains and success.
So I'm not sure if that answered directly on what
I believe about patriotism, but I don't. I don't take
it lightly. And uh, I think that that is that
is an excellent question.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Uh.

Speaker 12 (18:44):
And my my definition is what did you do for
America greater than yourself?

Speaker 11 (18:50):
Right, absolutly.

Speaker 12 (18:52):
Uh.

Speaker 10 (18:52):
You know, one of the things I would at least
for this show, and I've I've actually done it in
the past, is I'm looked at some of the numbers
as far as the service of African Americans, and one
of the things that I was looking at specifically because
there's so many different statistics and there they changed from

(19:13):
time to time. But regardless of what statistics that we
look at, we see that African Americans h and m
oftentimes that not only just for serving, but as far
as given the ultimate sacrifice. I was reading where it

(19:33):
said in the Civil War there was one in five
African Americans, you know, you know, gave gave their life
when it came to serving, even as far back as
you know, the Civil War, right, and then as even
as we can come up to the you know, the
Vietnam War, they were it was the same thing I

(19:57):
think they said that. Uh, they said one hundred thousand
and African Americans served in the Vietnam War, and in
nineteen sixty five, African Americans filled thirty one percent of
the ground combat battalions in Vietnam, while the percentage of
African Americans as a minority and the general population was
twelve percent. Also, African Americans suffered twenty four percent of

(20:19):
the US Army fatal casualties. African Americans saw combat at
a higher percentage and suffer casualties at a higher rate. So,
I mean, you look at the number, I mean twice
as many. We're twelve percent of the population. But you know,
we're you know, and so in regardless, I mean, we
even even fought for the right to even serve in

(20:42):
many cases, you know, to be able to give that,
you know, to and so and again going back, and
you make a really good point because I'm a solution
based type of person. And when you talked about America,
and you know, the greatness of America, and when we
talk about and what I don't like, Sergeant Major, is

(21:03):
that when we talk about the issue about the greatness
of America, we almost talk about it in a way
sometimes like we had nothing to do with it, you know.

Speaker 11 (21:14):
What I mean. So it's like, I mean, you know, all.

Speaker 10 (21:17):
Of the you know, the Post you know, or even
the civil rights all those things Brownbee Board of Education,
the Civil Rights movement, the Civil Rights Acts that not
just benefit us, but in many ways benefited other people
more in some ways than they benefited us. Right, And

(21:40):
sometimes you know, it makes me, you know, it bothers
me when people make the argument like we're you know,
you will never hear me speak as if I'm a
foreigner in this land, you know what I mean? I mean,
and I tell you and I'm proud not only of
serving in the million terry, but I'm also proud of

(22:01):
my you know, of the history of my ancestors and
how they built it being a great country.

Speaker 11 (22:08):
Sure, you know what I mean.

Speaker 10 (22:09):
And so that's kind of where you know, I get
kind of you know, I'm proud of who I am
as an African American. I think everybody knows that, but
I look at it from the perspective that, you know,
I'm proud of the country that my ancestors built as well.

Speaker 12 (22:24):
You know, you know, I think he makes a huge,
huge point, and I think we as African Americans Black
Americans do ourselves an injustice when we don't think that
we belong. I think that it is it is paramount
that we recognize, albeit how the history books want to
annotate it, how schools and how these different organizations want

(22:46):
to annotate it. But we belong. We were a intricate
and central part of the success of America. We were
wholeheartedly impactful to the greatness of this So when I
think of greatness, I'm talking about us. I'm talking about
the greatness can And you know when you alluded to,
hey you know somebody going back or doing somewhere, going

(23:09):
somewhere else, No, this is so so so American history
Black history. There there are intertwined in the levels of success.
Yes you have. You can pull these things apart and say,
well this is you can count a significant, significant contributions. However,
but it is so hardly entwined in the success of

(23:31):
this country. And we can never really uh honestly uh
say that without the major impact that African Americans have
made to this country, whether we be as successful as
we are. Not to delineag and say, hey, you know,

(23:53):
putting one other uh race down, but to say, this
is the significant impact. And I think when when we
are made to think that were allowed to think that, uh,
that that there was less in our contributions were less
or negative or even appear to be as a negative

(24:14):
negative impact, uh, is the absence of the truth, uh,
you know. And and so I'm boleheartily believing that with
our impact is here, is significant, and it's here to stay.
And that's that's that's that's that's history.

Speaker 11 (24:31):
Right.

Speaker 12 (24:32):
So I mean I'm in total agreement with that.

Speaker 13 (24:34):
You know, you know, over the years me, uh, looking
at Memorial Day, it was it was like like you
said at the onset of the show, it was just
one of those regular, you know, three day weekends, you know,
And it wasn't until you know, we begin to focus
on it every year when it comes down that time
that I actually became a little bit more knowledgeable of it.

(24:56):
And I think that me growing up and not having
some one in my family who actually went out and
served and actually you know, died in war, and so
I guess it had me looking at it something totally different.
And I think that it doesn't take away from those
who actually served, but it was just it wasn't something
that I actually really focused on you know what I'm saying.

(25:18):
So I just took it as though, you know, just
another three day weekend. But I guess over a period
of time of me really kind of understanding that, and
I think you and light beyond Azulu, is that it
takes a special type of patriotism for someone to go
to war and fight and then come back and be

(25:40):
discriminated against for a country that has stood up for
that it was willing to sacrifice. And that's a special
type of person. And that's not the takeaway from someone
who actually served from a different race, but I think
as you African Americans who actually served, I mean, that's
the highest form of patriotism to be able to go
fight and still knowing that you're going to come home

(26:01):
and still have to fight for your freedom in the
country that you just went far for for these freedoms,
You see what I'm saying. And so I think over
a period of time, I began to learn more and
more about that, and I think I gained a higher
level of respect of not only those who actually served,
but those who actually passed as well. And oftentimes, and

(26:22):
I would see individuals who actually served, and I would give.
You know, I would give them props. You know, they
might have a hat on, the shirt on, and I
give a prop because I grew up listening. And I
still don Muhammad I leave for a long time when
he made that statement where he didn't go to war,
and I still know that. For a long time, I
was one of them prisoners to tell you now, I
ain't going nowhere, you know, I ain't fighting for nobody.

(26:44):
And it was that speech that actually led me to believe,
as I believe, but I think, and that's not to
say what he was talking about was wrong, but that
was his reality at that particular time, and that was
his relief, you know. But as time goes on and
I began to understand what you were saying in terms of,
like us sacrificing so much here to build this country out,

(27:06):
you know, and this is what we fight for because
I no one's gonna let anyone run into their home
and not try to defend it.

Speaker 8 (27:13):
So I get that.

Speaker 13 (27:14):
I get that now, and so now I have a
deeper regard and a deeper respect for this day. And
you know, and those who actually sacrificed themselves for this particular.

Speaker 12 (27:24):
Day, you know, this brings the point. I did a
steak down in San Diego. I was invited to be
a pino speaker down at the Buffalo Soldiers, the tenth
and Nights Regiment out of our San Diego and they
have a camp out there called Camp Locket. There that
was the last stand for the Buffalo Soldiers, the Horse Soldiers,

(27:47):
and a lot of a lot of the brothers and
sisters went over to that was in that Horse regiment
went over to the park Rangers. So we have a
rich history of being the park Rangers that did Indian
War Fair back in the day. But my point there
is that these individuals were a part of a town.
So they were out at I think twenty minutes about

(28:10):
half an hour past San Diego is a place called
Camp Locket. Those individuals at that camp, they was a
horse regiment African Americans. They could not go into the
town for fear of being beat up or killed, but
h and they would serve. So my whole piece was

(28:31):
that those individuals and I often thought why would they
do that? Because they believed in something greater. They believed
that at one point their children and their children's children
would be able to have a better life have a
better life, and that's why you do. And and a
lot of the African American, the soldiers and would do

(28:53):
these things because I'm sitting here and I thought, like
I folks thought like, why would you go and fight
and then you couldn't and come back into the town
and they would they throw things out, get said, or
do these kinds of things that you were protecting them
or protecting this country. So what I had to realize
is that these individuals had a higher thought level than

(29:16):
the situation that they were in. And I think I
think that that is kind of the key piece to
why we do what we do right now? Uh, why
do we join and why do we go? And and
and they had that at that time the pay was low,
but they they had a pay and they sent it home.
So I think the biggest piece is that, uh, we

(29:39):
all believe there is a greater, greater goal and a
greater mission at the end of this than the start.
And and if and if you're believing that, then then
that my daughter and my son could have a better
way then we started out with. And and that's the whole,

(30:03):
the whole piece, And so we still have and that's
why I'm so appreciative of of you, Zulu is that
you still are in the fighting trenches of a advocating
for us to have rights and to get those those rights,
because if without those kinds of things, then it would

(30:26):
be still status quo. But you can go fight, but
when you come back, you are still looked at and
still you know, uh, having having discrimination pieces against you
systematic and systemically, but you believe. And so there was
something I took a look at that some of the
formers of the Constitution that one of the things that

(30:48):
they did do is they put these abilities for these
amendments and for these for these opportunities to change. And
I would say that the country has done some of
those things in a legalistic piece. And as we know,
you can have a legalistic piece, but it's not boots
on the ground. You know, you could put a law
in the effect, but when you go back to your city,

(31:08):
when you go back to your municipality, if you know
you've got some of those types of individuals out there
that don't care, then you can still be faced up
with that. But what I would say is that knowingly
or unknowmally, the framers and I want to believe that
knowingly that they put into place where we can amend
some of these things, we continue some of these things.

(31:30):
So that's kind of my takeout it. I'm always trying
to look at the bigger picture. I'm always saying the
glass is half full and half empty. But I'm a
reality I know, and I don't take it lightly that
wrong place, wrong time, wrong words could put you just
as if you were the president or a paulper Right.

Speaker 11 (31:49):
That's true. That's true. Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind
of the thing.

Speaker 10 (31:52):
And I think that sometimes when it comes to, you know,
the conversation, and I always say again, and you know,
Memorial Day is for veterans, regardless of you know, the color.
So I don't want to make this, you know, solely
an issue of blackness, but I think it's important that
we talk about that when it comes to that, and

(32:15):
you know, and and kind of reposition because one of
the things that also annoys me is and I think
this is a good opportunity to talk about the issue
of you know, it's all sometimes you know, whether you're
talking about you know, our own people or whether you're

(32:35):
talking about other people, I.

Speaker 11 (32:37):
Mean, whether they know it or not.

Speaker 10 (32:39):
We do have our own history, you know, African Americans
do have a history, you know, and and and sometimes
it feels like that, you know.

Speaker 11 (32:51):
What.

Speaker 10 (32:51):
You know, we created a culture of from people who
were you know, mentally and physically the strongest of those
who came from the continent, and we do have our
own culture. And you know when sometimes it annoys me sometimes,
you know, when people whether you know, people from the continent,

(33:14):
who have the audacity to questions who we are, right, like,
we don't, you know what I mean, I'm not no less.
I have a culture in this country we built. We
do have a culture, you know, that's here. We as
African Americans do have that.

Speaker 11 (33:28):
This is our home. We do have a culture, and
we have a lot to be proud of, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 10 (33:34):
And so sometimes I get annoyed and offended when people,
specifically who may not be indigenous to the United States
ask me questions as if I don't have a culture.
We have a culture. We have centuries of culture here. Again,
we built this country. And I like to put that

(33:56):
out there because it does annoy me, you know what
I mean, You know what I mean. So you know,
nobody needs to feel sorry for me and feel sorry
for my history, because it is a rich, it's a
proud culture, and and people imitate us all over the world,
you know what I mean, Like I said, everybody wants
our rhythm, but nobody wants our blues.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (34:21):
Well yeah, you know, and and that is always, uh,
something that's kind of kind of prevalent. That and then
it from to this to this country would say, hey,
that they've got a richer you know, or that they
questions what we've done here. Uh, And you're absolutely right.

(34:43):
It is an annoying aspect, frustrating aspect, however it is.
It is full and rich. But the biggest thing that
I think that most of the people who ask and
where they're at.

Speaker 11 (34:55):
Here that's true exactly right, Yeah, that's a great.

Speaker 12 (35:02):
Yeah, because you here, I'm missing something exactly.

Speaker 11 (35:10):
That's so, that's so, that's so true, you know, you.

Speaker 12 (35:14):
Know, right, so you're coming to get some of what
from from some some of something was created over here.

Speaker 11 (35:19):
Or right most definitely, because if.

Speaker 13 (35:24):
You have everything that you needed over there, you wouldn't
be here.

Speaker 12 (35:27):
Yeah, there's the point. There's the point that you're here.
I mean because from from from the music to the
language to all of these things to our patriotism, to
our commitment to our lives, that we the blood whether
we did it on a foreign country, but the blood
here was for a reason.

Speaker 11 (35:50):
For reason that's so true.

Speaker 12 (35:53):
Memorial Day things loudly, you know, from our our anthem
to nothing to be ashamed of. And I think a
lot of times there's a lot of things that uh
that that try to bold to be you know, to
really kind of put a negative spin on what we've
got here. But uh, you know, the the blood that
was shipd uh like uh for the for for in

(36:16):
getting back to kind of the recognition Memorial there was
there was a lot of us and you you started
off with a strong passage that that talked about uh
the sacrifices that we were made. I got a chance
to review some of those numbers and UH per capita,
uh per our numbers in society and population that the

(36:40):
uh the the percentage in facalities, the percentage and and
and and participation far out far out numbers and outweighs
uh any of the other UH cultures out there and aspects.
And we put on the line so that we could
be here and recognize that I want to want to
make a point on on on what my my belief

(37:01):
and patriotism and memorial say. Uh is that you mentioned
about there's people who want to celebrate it in different
kinds of ways. There's certain things that there are people
who have the right in this country to do that
I wouldn't do. But I went so that you can
have that right right and have a voice. And I
mean I agree with right, so, uh that that's kind

(37:25):
of what my thought is. And you know, I went
so so you didn't have to a lot of people
come up and say, well, what was it like? And
you don't you don't need to know. You don't really
want to know, you know, you want to know. Hey,
and my my thing is like, yes, I'm glad to
be here, but uh, but there's there's there're brothers and
sisters that we we we left because that was their

(37:45):
final stand, right, you know, we're not You don't want
to really know about that, and you don't need to.
That's why I went, there's one percent in less than
one percent raise their hands.

Speaker 11 (37:56):
Right, that's right, That's right.

Speaker 10 (37:58):
Yeah, I mean it's uh and and hopefully I mean
using this as a way to are recognizing the sacrifices
and the fact that you know, and I know this
is Memorial Day and where then this is primarily focused
on the ones who gave the the ultimate, you know, sacrifice.

(38:20):
But at the same time, you know, we we should
do more, you know, I just in period the way
that we should do more for.

Speaker 13 (38:30):
Veterans took it right out of my mouth, you know, Yeah, I.

Speaker 11 (38:34):
Mean, are people who serve?

Speaker 10 (38:36):
I mean, I just you know, because you know, a
lot of times again those who you know, lost their lives,
whether it's the survivors of those individuals who lost their
life and those who are here, and so many people
who are suffering. And you know, and I know that
I had an experienced one time in court, and I'm

(38:56):
not gonna be specific about the experience, uh about names
or anything like that, but I remember the I was
so upset one day in court where you know, there
was a gentleman who was charged with the criminal offense
and he was given a community service and he was

(39:20):
almost one hundred percent as far as his PTSD is concerned,
and so he gets this community service and basically he
was not able to complete the community service within the
timeline that was given to him on probation, and so
but it was not very much more time. So he

(39:42):
came to me and says, look, you know, they wanted
me to you know, go to jail and you know,
spend the rest of the time, or they wanted to violate.

Speaker 11 (39:48):
Him and spend the rest of the time in jail.

Speaker 10 (39:50):
So I said, well, you know, let's uh, you know,
let's see what we can work out. I felt comfortable
in light of the fact it was only about him
completing the community service that we may be able to
get it reinstated, and he could, you know, complete everything.
So I go to court and we go back and
we're talking and the the and I'm pleading. It wasn't

(40:15):
on the record, and it was kind of you know, behind
closed doors. I'm pleading with him. The probation was there,
you know, his former public defender was there, that DA
was there, and I'm pleading to see if we could
just extend him, give him a little bit more time.
But I was so upset because I felt like they
did not give him enough love and the things that

(40:39):
they were saying, you know, in other words, I'm saying,
you know, it's like he just didn't turn fall off
a turnip truck. You know, he was suffering from almost
one hundred percent PTSD, had injuries and all of that,
and the coldness you know that they you know, showed
towards this individual was so annoying. He happened to he

(41:02):
wasn't African American, he was white, but it didn't matter
to me because he was a veteran. And and and
you know, and so that goes across the board. I
can say from my first hand experience that the way
that we treat our veterans is and and I think
that if we want to make this country a better place,

(41:25):
I think that if you watch how we treat those
who gave their lives and or who's who you know
we're willing to give their lives and those who gave
their lives, I think it tells you how far away
we are from where we need to be. You can't expect,
you know. And and that's that could that's a mark,

(41:47):
you know what I mean. And that's where it comes from.
I mean, you know, that's and that's an unfortunate thing.
I mean, that's that's what we're battling between, you know,
battling with in this country because just don't think just
because someone happens to think that because of their social
economic status that this country that they're good patriots, are

(42:13):
good people.

Speaker 11 (42:14):
In many ways, those are the people were battling. The
same people that were.

Speaker 10 (42:19):
Battling with the way that they mistreat our veterans are
generally the same people were battling when it comes to racism.

Speaker 12 (42:28):
Yeah, you know, you know what I mean.

Speaker 10 (42:33):
I mean, don't if if a man is gonna mistreat
a man that has served his country, I can assure
you he's gonna treat mistreat you know.

Speaker 12 (42:42):
I think I think that uh you know, uh, the
the injustice or the misnomer. I think that at some
point folks are trying and in certain ways, I mean,
you know, the ten percent you can go get a
free hot dog and I'm not I'm not discribed in
that goal and get you know, lunch and service that

(43:04):
at different at different places. Because they're honoring on the
day tomorrow, probably you know, they probably lose you know,
I don't know, a couple hundred thousands on free meal. However,
the biggest pieceet that that they could do is look
at the systemic system that says, Okay, this is how
we're going to handle this certain situation. You can say hey,

(43:26):
thank you for a vegteram for your service. But you know,
when you talk about justice, and when you talk about
let's look at uh uh some some some some equity
or some sympathy or some additional or support that this
this in the individual has has earned, has has earned,

(43:48):
is where they're really lacking at. You know, I think
you know, I think that they they thank you for
your service, and those kinds of things are all uh
great and dandy, and I don't discount that. However, the
greatest amount of justice and the greatest amount of support
is when they're in these positions where they have the
ability and they're in the authoritative positions where they have

(44:11):
the ability to say, you know what, let's let me
consider let me consider additional, let me consider additional. Because
you did the additional, you did the unthinkable, you did
the the uh the uh uh the service. And that's
where we don't get a lot of a lot of
support and jobs and different things as a veterans where

(44:32):
they talk about it. But when it comes to I've
seen many of many of veterans uh that could Gunner
and I've been in those same situations that you talked about.
I don't even know. If I was in that room,
I may have been. Yeah, it is a it is
a cold effort that that happens to individuals that you say, hey,

(44:55):
thank you, but when you're putting the rubber on a
road where you can really get a thank you, I
think we're really lacking in that in.

Speaker 10 (45:03):
A lot of instatist Oh yeah, almost definitely, I mean,
and it kind of like, you know, it's really in
the same space, although we're disconnected because we don't have
that conversation, but the same paradigm still exists.

Speaker 11 (45:17):
So in other words, you have so many people.

Speaker 10 (45:22):
Who and I'm saying this because it may sound offensive
to some people, but to get to where I'm going
with it, you have so many people that are privileged
off the back of those who done so much for
you to be put in a privileged position. But it's
all it's hypocrisy in many ways because it comes from

(45:46):
the same thing. For example, whether we're talking about from
the very beginning of the you know, unpurchased land, uncompensated labor,
and the people who go out and sacrifice for you,
you know, so that you will be able to sleep
and live in a safe country. You know, they're the

(46:06):
same people they really are, you know it, you know,
and so that's like when someone looks at you when
they say it it's rhetoric.

Speaker 11 (46:16):
The patriotism is fake, you know what I mean?

Speaker 10 (46:20):
You know, and so and and that's that's an annoying
situation to me, you know.

Speaker 13 (46:25):
And you would think in that situation that you just
explained that they would have some type of some type
of a little bit you know, feel a little bit
different coming from where he came from and what he experienced,
because probably what he experienced is what got him there
in that first place. And had he not went through
that experience, he probably wouldn't be sitting before them. But
the fact that he is sitting before them, you know,

(46:48):
and he fought for those freedom for them, because some
of them probably wouldn't be sitting on a bench or
or where they act without his service, you know. And
and just that even if it was a couple of days,
a couple of weeks more that he needed in order
to come complete that, you would think that they would
just feel that.

Speaker 8 (47:02):
In their heart.

Speaker 13 (47:02):
Man, this is you know, this is somebody that fought
for my freedom, you know, you know, give them a
week or so, but you know, we witness this all
the time. Though you know, I can remember, I can't
tell you how many people that I know that are
incarcerated that are veterans. And that's not to say what
they did was wrong, but I believe that they was
not able to cut off a lot of stuff that

(47:23):
they were they went through and and a lot of
the teachings that they were taught, they weren't able to
cut it off, and they weren't able to get the
proper medical treatment in order for them to think like
they were thinking, you know, they suffering from the PTSD
and stuff like that. And the thing about it is
because I believe that there's not enough programs that will

(47:44):
aid and assist those that need that type of help.
And so when they end up in situations like this,
people look at them from a different perspective, which is
a sad reality.

Speaker 11 (47:53):
Yeah, I'd say, so.

Speaker 12 (47:56):
You know, what I think is is that our country
buying lard is a lot of times it's knee sirks now.
And what I mean by that is when nine to
eleven happened, everybody saw war right on their front steps,
right there, and they were Everybody was like, Hey, what
can we do and all of these kinds of things.
But the further you move away from that, the further

(48:18):
you go back into systemic systems. I think all of
those kinds of things, we're all kind of dropped when
you've seen that what you've seen on nine to eleven country,
see that every day right right exactly, our are the
strongest military in the world, was called right then, everybody

(48:41):
and and so that we were called I remember where
I was. But I think that what happens is is
as we move away from those things, the stemic stuff
comes back. And you know at that time, you would
the veterans coming back. You give them a give them
a hey, a handshake, and what can we do? What
can we do? And they gave some predibility, drag, gave
them some leniency, gave them support. I don't think it

(49:03):
was ever too much to ask for somebody to get
a couple additional hours. But as you got closer to
nine to eleven, that's the only real thing that brought
war to our doorsets on a national level with media,
I mean, there's been other incidents and it happens ongoing.
More than the civilians know about attacks that happened in

(49:26):
our country that they don't see. But I think if
we bring that back and say nine to eleven and
all the people died after that, the military and the
Pentagon and the tax on those kinds of things, bring
that to homes and people can really it resonates with
them more and they will give that leniency, but they forget.

(49:47):
But CHRIST members remember that every day. Remember the US.
We remember nine to eleven and that potential every day.

Speaker 10 (49:56):
Yeah, And it's you know, one of the things I
was going to say is far as you know, the
fact that we could do more a Memorial Day and
recognize our veterans, is you know, I was so taken back,
you know, when the things that people were saying about
John McCain and the fact that you know, they were

(50:22):
cool with that, they were cool with the fact that
you had and I'm just gonna put it out there
that you had leaders of this country that we're going
to support anybody that we're going to say the things
that they said and make fun of his service. How

(50:43):
could you possibly say that, you know, I follow people
that don't get captured.

Speaker 11 (50:50):
How could you possibly say that, you know what I mean?

Speaker 10 (50:54):
And then you mad at Colin Kaepernick but you cool
with our president saying that about John McCain, that you
see what I mean, and that that is that and
that puts it back into perspectives. I mean, we have
to we need to check ourselves on Memorial Day, on
these days, our true you know, that's unbelievable. I cannot

(51:18):
believe that they would say that about a man who
served this country, was captured and he served it, you know,
I mean his the story could go on and on.
No matter what you think about John McCain, you can't
take anything away from it.

Speaker 12 (51:34):
Yeah, he bought the scars and all the rest of
his life, you know, in his physical mobility. Absolutely I agree. Uh,
you know that that that does resonate with the overall
our team concept that that what what tribute are you
paying to the veterans beyond your your stance or whatever

(51:58):
may be your your you know, your your your your
act fact or your political whatever that, but to have
a demmigration of that value.

Speaker 10 (52:08):
Yeah, the bill to publicly condict, publicly criticize someone's service.

Speaker 13 (52:13):
And the laws and everything that you live by is
partially I mean gratitude. You know, his fight and his sacrifice.
You know what you what you live by every day,
you know, and the freedoms that that's guaranteed to you
is what he fought for. But yet you want to
turn back around and make these types of statements about him.

Speaker 10 (52:33):
I mean, I don't think that that in my mind,
I don't think that people. It's like am on another
planet m hm, where where a man can serve his
country no matter what you think about his politics. As
he said when they were trying to criticize Barack Obama,
he took up for him when he was running against him. Yeah,

(52:55):
but you're you know, the fact that you would continue
to support anybody, I would think they would run you
out of the White House for saying something like that.
And you should be you should never be able to
criticize a man's service. And what does that send to
the rest What kind of message does that send to
the rest of the country of.

Speaker 12 (53:16):
Acceptance And that's okay, they don't whatever you want, then
you can criticize what he did as a patriarch.

Speaker 11 (53:25):
Absolutely.

Speaker 12 (53:27):
Yeah, that's that's bone chilling, and and it just makes
you think. And then when you sit around and you
think about, you know, what is what what do they
what has really thought about a veteran, really heard about
a veteran when you know, I mean the biggest thing.
I listened to two different songs and when it comes

(53:48):
on and it brings serious my minds when we when
we talk about you know, fallen soldiers and never leave
anybody behind, because I think about some of the things
and I think about some of the places that I
was that if and it chokes me up, it didn't
come back, they didn't come back. I've been in places

(54:10):
where if they didn't come back, my leadership was the
only folks that knew I was there. Mm hmm, knew
where I was. They didn't come back. Uhh, I wouldn't
be here. Yeah, that's yeah, there's there's some things that

(54:31):
I'm I still still a challenge with that.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
Man.

Speaker 12 (54:35):
It was left up to somebody who was one of
the leaders and was a patriot that uh, if it
wasn't for him and it didn't come back, Uh, where
would we be most definitely?

Speaker 10 (54:49):
Yeah, I mean it's uh, it's amazing, man. I mean
and I know that even today that you know people
that you know, you serve with, I mean, there's that
connection you know when it comes to people that you
go out and you and you give that, you know,
that ultimate sacrifice and those people that you serve with,
and you know, and we used to I remember when

(55:12):
I was in the Marine Corps. We couldn't say black
or white. We had to say dark green marine or
light gray marine. So you know, but but yeah, I mean,
it's it's something. I mean, we have some work to
do when it comes to, you know, the way that
we and and I think that that's that's the challenge,
that's where we you know, it's it's beyond you know,

(55:35):
sometimes we get caught up sometimes in this whole colorism,
but it's beyond that, you know, it's something deeper when
you have again going back to to me, that John
McCain thing was huge. I mean, I'll harp on it
all the time because you have people who continue to
support this person even though he's made that statement. Sure,

(56:00):
so is it is it Is it surprising that we
have other issues when it comes to the way that
they treating people of color or other citizens. Because you
can't be a patriot and hate your hate people that
are in your country, that that automatically excludes you.

Speaker 11 (56:16):
In my opinion, you know, you know, I.

Speaker 12 (56:21):
Think that I think that the the uh uh politization
of positions. It used to be there's certain things that
transcend your position. They used to there were things that
transcend your your your position, but not not. You know,

(56:43):
you can say and do anything and you got your positions.
You know, nobody stepping outside of that or even criticizing
even if you didn't step out, but you criticize it.
Sa Hey, wait a minute. That that doesn't sound right
to me. That doesn't sign up with who we say
we are. And I think I think we get more

(57:04):
and more and at these these cycles of media, these
cycles of you know, uh processes come that they they
capitalize on that, they utilize that, they energize each other
with those stand you know, even when I'm wrong, don't
give me any kind of criticism, don't give me any

(57:26):
other kind of thing, because then you're not you're not
loyal to me. But if you're wrong, wrong is wrong
a hundred things, and wrong on that one, you're still
wrong on that one. To address that, but I don't
we have a lot of will to do that in
certain cases.

Speaker 11 (57:44):
Right, that's so true?

Speaker 10 (57:46):
Yeah, I mean I think that hopefully will and and again,
like I hope that you know, people really use this
as a as a day to really focus on what
it really means, you know what I mean. And that's
for as we go, which is actually technically tomorrow. But
I mean, I'm hoping that people understand the significance of
it and those who did give that ultimate sacrifice and

(58:09):
you know, and and and recognize really what what.

Speaker 11 (58:12):
Patriotism really is. Yeah, you know what I mean. I
remember when.

Speaker 10 (58:18):
Uh, the guy that was in the Navy that served
in Vietnam, he ran against Bush if I'm not John Carry. Yeah, yeah,
we even saw a little bit of that leaking in
when during his pre when he was running, they were,
you know, making fun of what he did in his service.
Wasn't quite as blaant, yeah, but it came out that way.

Speaker 12 (58:43):
Yeah mm hmm. Yeah. You know, I think that what
what has always I've seen is that it's always been
easy to pick on the military. It's always been easier
to pick on you know, pull something out, find something,
find a decision, find some stuff, you know, fool that

(59:05):
it'll never sir right, wouldn't raise their hand yourself or
ran away when they're trying to raise their hands, right,
Get all other things so that they didn't get to
have to raise their hands right.

Speaker 10 (59:17):
Well, we don't run out of time, Sergeant Major Man.
But I definitely appreciate you chiming in today and calling in.

Speaker 6 (59:22):
Man.

Speaker 10 (59:22):
It was a pleasure and honor. And oh yeah, like
I said, I appreciate you, know you calling in and
giving us your information and your input and and hopefully
we'll have you back on soon.

Speaker 12 (59:34):
Absolutely, I love it, and thank you all, and thank
you for what you're doing. Thanks for the opportunity.

Speaker 11 (59:39):
Okay, thank you all right.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Figure NBC News on CACAA lommeled sponsored by Teamsters Local
nineteen thirty two, protecting the Future of Working Families Teamsters
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Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
M hmmm, NBC News Radio. I'm Lisa Carton, a man
with dual American German citizenship is now fair