July 27, 2025 • 60 mins
KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali on Sun, 27 Jul, 2025
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 6 (05:26):
Thank you for tuning in for this edition of Justice
Watching Attorneys l I am attorney Zulu and social justice
issues that are impacting our work community.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
UH.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
This week, UH, we'll be talking about the UH and
I think we got somebody there, Joe.
Speaker 10 (05:55):
We'll actually be talking about the.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Women in the workplace, toxic toxic masculinity, and the LGBTQ debate. Right,
you're with us, Rosen, Well, I'm here, okay, all right, So.
Speaker 11 (06:19):
Yeah, so anyway, so you hear I talked about, Yes, women.
Speaker 10 (06:31):
In the workplace. Yeah, you got somebody also on again.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so one of the things I
wanted to talk about as far as women in the workplace,
which I know is going to be kind of a
sensitive subject, I guess for the lack of a better term,
But what I wanted to talk about when it comes
to the issue of women in the workplace, one of
(07:01):
the things that I kind of wanted to hit on
is we asked, we posed a question last week, right,
and what the question was last week was and this
is just kind of I mean, we're going to expand it,
but the topic was, you know, what we're seeing is
we're seeing more And I'm just gonna start out with
(07:23):
the military and then we'll back up and we'll talk
about the civilian aspect of it. But what we're seeing
in the in the in the military is that a
lot of they're allowing a lot more women to be
engaged in combat related moss and MOS is a military
occupational specialty.
Speaker 10 (07:43):
That's what they call it, just a job.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
So now that you're having the women come into the
mos of doing uh, you know, and when I say combat,
I'm talking about typically in the military, people have different jobs.
Some of the jobs are administrative, some of the jobs
are support, some of the jobs are cooked, some jobs
are medical. And then you have, you know, the people
that they consider to be the combat the grunts is
(08:07):
what they're usually called in most military you I mean
military branches. And then you have the special forces, which
would include any where. You have the seals, you have
the recon, you have the rangers, you have Army special forces.
(08:28):
So you also have this whole you know, special forces
in it. So the question is.
Speaker 10 (08:35):
Should women be allowed to be in combat?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Wow?
Speaker 10 (08:43):
Are not being comeback but be in the capacity of
a of infantry? What you think?
Speaker 12 (08:51):
This is a tough one because they could say I
feel like I've learned a line and I feel like
I really do support the traditional understanding of gender roles,
you know, outlined as a Christian in the Bible, I
feel like both men and women have distinct girls and
(09:12):
responsibility within the church within you know, the family and
with girls, you know, different contexts vary and they are
all rooted, you know, in different principles, you know, respect
for mutual mission. And I feel like in general, family
(09:36):
to build about, you know, rather than superiority and inferiority.
And I feel like when you talk about women going
out there to combat, I feel like it's not necessarily
doubting that you're capable, but I feel like it's definitely
a role that biological men are, you know, they're inherently stronger.
(10:01):
And when I think of a woman in combat, you know,
as someone who I tell you, I'm coming from a
perspective of a Christian woman, that to me is a
bit I don't feel too on the side. Yeah, because
I believe roles you know that are very traditional.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
But that's my perspective, right, So you do think they
should expand it.
Speaker 12 (10:30):
I do think they should expand the.
Speaker 10 (10:35):
You think they should allow women to be in combat roles?
Speaker 6 (10:41):
I don't think so, you said, no, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I don't think.
Speaker 12 (10:48):
And I tell you, I'm coming from a very traditional
perspective where I feel like men are biologically stronger, We're
biologically made differently, and I feel like you are for
these positions.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Right, Okay, so I'm gonna say I'm gonna play Devil's advocate. Well,
first of all, well let me first go and and
and just piggyback off what you said. And I'm going
to uh add something else to what you said that
(11:23):
whenever you I mean clearly, when you're talking about that
type of occupation, specifically, if you're talking about you know, infantry,
and when you're talking about special forces, when you're talking
about all those types of units, you know it is
a a the ultimate team sport, so to speak. I mean,
(11:47):
teamwork means everything. I mean, you know, when you when
life and death is an issue, you have to work
in a in an effort that is unprecedented.
Speaker 10 (11:58):
I mean, you really have to have each other's back.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
Those those guys actually become brothers, so to speak.
Speaker 13 (12:04):
Right, and you know my thoughts are that and this
and this is not my thoughts, okay, and playing the
Devil's advocate, Okay.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
So the point is is that you can make the argument,
there's the argument that whenever you have this team dynamics,
that when a woman is is basically put in that dynamics,
that ultimately the team, the unit, the changes. So In
(12:39):
other words, there's a couple of things. Whenever you have
according to some of my friends, whenever you have a
team dynamic, then when a woman gets involved, then the
way men relate to each other even changes, correct, you
(13:00):
see what I mean. So in other words, if you
have a you know, if you have four or five
guys that are in a unit and they relate to
each other in a certain way, you know, you know
that brothers oftentimes when I mean, I even let me
just tell you this. I can just tell you this
(13:21):
from my own personal perspective. I have friends that I
talked to on the phone, right, and when you talk
on the phone, if there I can always tell when
their wife is in the room, because when their wife
(13:42):
is in the room, it's a totally different conversation, right,
They tend to, you know, talk a little bit differently
and relate a little bit differently.
Speaker 10 (13:53):
I mean, you can you can just you know, kind
of tell.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
You know what I mean, And so that there's this
whole you know, I mean, you know how we are.
We're like to you know, we're not always smart, and
we like to beat our chests, right, and then when
we get in front of a woman, it's just like
we get all goofy, right, some of us right, And
I'm just being stereotypical, and I'm just trying to put,
(14:18):
you know, just an argument out there. And when that happens,
oftentimes at least from our perspective, then you know, it
creates there's jealousy and envy and trying to you know,
then you know you got some dudes. I mean, if
you're in the unit, you know, then that's why when
they have prisons, they have men prisons and women prisons.
(14:41):
You see what I'm saying, Why wouldn't they? I mean
I think that you know another reason for that, you
see what I mean, obvious reasons, right, And you know,
I mean the the the the you know, when you're
out in the field for you know, anywhere for six
months to year sometimes more, right, it becomes a problem.
(15:04):
I remember when I was in a Marine Corps, the
only ships that have men and women on them, at
least back then were hospital ships. Yeah, and I remember
that there was a particular ship that was quarantine when
it poorted at Pearl Harbor. And the reason why it
was quarantine is because of a veneural.
Speaker 10 (15:24):
Disease on the ship.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Not to say that there couldn't be a veneural disease
with just men on the ship, right, But I'm just
saying that, you know, you you do have that dynamics
there that that adds to it. So on one hand,
that could be a problem, right, those those two things,
because you're there. And then also there's another thing too.
I mean, there are still gentlemen in the world. Yeah,
(15:51):
you know what I mean. So so the reality of
it is is that and I can just tell you this,
and I'll say it on the air. I act differently
towards women and I do men. M if we're walking
out the door and you are here and my wife
is here, I'm probably gonna open the door and let
you and my wife walk out the door, right, and
(16:15):
allows probably gonna walk out behind them.
Speaker 10 (16:17):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
I mean, let's just keep it real, right, Yeah, I mean,
you know, and and you're being a gentleman. So when
you're talking, when you're in an atmosphere where you know,
you really have not to say that a woman cannot
to some degree hold her weight. But as a man,
you know, there's certain things that you know you're not
going to allow. Many guys are not gonna allow women
(16:40):
to do it, So even if they want to, that's
a difficult thing to do, right, So it does from
that perspective, and I'm just talking about a million the
woman in combat just just from from that perspective. But
we'll get into the Savilian aspect of it too. What
you got anything as far as that particular issue.
Speaker 14 (16:59):
Well, well, I agree that they I agree that they
do have a particular role, but I don't want it
to get equated to thinking that they're not capable of
doing something, because I think a lot of people are capable,
(17:19):
a lot of women are capable of certain roles. But
then there's that certain role that they should stay away
from because you say it does change the dynamics of it,
because I know for a fact that like you say,
men beat their chest, they act differently, you know, when
a women, When a woman is involved, you know, I
(17:40):
might want to be that show boat, that show boat,
you know, especially if I'm gonna if I if i'm gonna,
I'm on a field, I'm out here in battle, right
regardless of I'm fighting or not, I might tend to
show off a little bit more than a typical person
because I want to be impressive and that's just the
reality of it, you know, And it changed the whole dynamics,
(18:00):
especially when it comes to when it comes to being
in the field of you know, fighting, you know, and
and stuff like that. But as far as like whether
or not they're capable, I believe that the women are
capable of holding your own. But I think that it
it changes the dynamics of everything, and it could be
detrimental opposed to something that's beneficial.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
I mean, have we gotten and before we get there,
I mean, have we gotten to a point where to
to like what you said, Rosa, I mean the statement
that you made that would come across very controversial to
a lot of people. Yeah, because you said, you know
what I mean, and so you know you're speaking your truth.
(18:46):
But oftentimes we're fearful of speaking the truth correct because
if we do, then you know, we're living in that
that that that timeline where and I want to talk
We'll talk about toxic masculinity next.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
That's an issue.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
But then outside of the you know, when we talk
about the military or paramilitary types of jobs, what about that?
I mean, do you think I mean, clearly there's probably
sevilian jobs that we traditionally will see as a man's job.
For example, maybe a fireman, maybe a police officer. We
(19:24):
have some very fine female farm when I say, fine,
like do their job firemen and police officers. Right, we
know that we know that they do exist their career.
People that are in managed, they're in leadership, and they're
very capable of you know, at least you know, uh
(19:45):
many of them probably to do you know, their job,
you know what I mean. Now let's just go back
to another issue. Now I'm gonna I'm playing devil's advocate, right.
You know you said something earlier about the make up.
You know, a man's strength and I'm talking about physical
(20:07):
physical strength compared to a woman's strength.
Speaker 10 (20:11):
Where sometimes in.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Some of these jobs they are relevant, you know what
I mean, they really, they really are relevant.
Speaker 15 (20:18):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
It will make a difference in some cases as to
a certain function between a man, let's just say, trying
to you know, have to address or deal with a
purpose a suspect for example. You know, there's there's there
(20:42):
can be differences. Of course, there's you know, there's always
other methods that can be used, such as non lethal
force that a woman may be able to use as
a result of that, Joe, I think we got somebody,
but you know, it can become become an issue. So
that's one thing the paramilitary situation. Now, I'm going to
(21:06):
also tell you something that I've heard in the field
of law. Right, there's a lot and I've heard it
from women. Now I'm telling you that this is the
guy's on this truth. There's a lot of women who
prefer not to deal with the other women on the job.
M Have you heard that before?
Speaker 12 (21:28):
Definitely?
Speaker 14 (21:29):
Definitely?
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yeah. And and and why is that?
Speaker 10 (21:32):
Why would a woman not want to necessarily deal with
another woman on the job.
Speaker 12 (21:39):
I genuine feel that it stems from feelings of I mean,
there's just this sense of like rivalry that just it's
an unspoken rivalry at work. I'm not sure where that
stems from. I'm not sure if it's cultural. And I
feel like initially I thought it was truth, but it's
(22:01):
just the warmth. It's almost like you you have to
be the best out with your rats, and you're constantly
competing with your counterpart. That's where I see it from.
Speaker 14 (22:13):
I definitely do sense that.
Speaker 10 (22:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
One of the things that I also heard is like,
let me ask you this question and I'm gonna just
ask you, okay, So, Belila, if you had to go
to court and there was a male judge and a
female judge, and you had to choose between which one
you would go in front of, which one would you
go in front of?
Speaker 14 (22:39):
Probably go up before the female judge because in my
mind I figured that I might be able to appease
her or you know, appeal to her a sensitive side.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
So to speak. What about you, Joe, It's okay, you
tell the truth a man, and what about you Rosen?
Speaker 12 (23:06):
I mean, as a female, I would.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Say a male.
Speaker 10 (23:10):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Now what you said.
Speaker 10 (23:14):
Loud is probably what scares people.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
And the reason why is because I think that you
see sometimes over compensation, because this belief that women are
going to be softer or you know what I mean.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
Sometimes I think that you get the reverse, yeah, you.
Speaker 7 (23:34):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
So in other words, although they know that they may
even be that way, they may, you know, they feel like, well,
if I if I come across this way, then they're
going to say, you know what I mean, because I'm
a woman, but I'm going to do it this way
and be harsher just to overcompensate or compensate you know
what I mean, And I personally have seen that, you know,
(23:57):
where I feel like there's an and sometimes even like
with das and district attorneys, female district attorneys in my
I can just say this, I don't know if gender
has anything to do with it. So I'm sure somebody's
gonna say, well, why'd you bring it up?
Speaker 10 (24:11):
Right? But I can say that.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
The toughest ones I've had are typically I've dealt with
DA's who were marines, right and and come from you
know that type of you know background, and I've dealt
with and I can say that they tend to be tough,
to be a lot tougher and less sensitive in many ways,
(24:38):
or at least appear to be less sensitive or or.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
Tend to be take those things personally.
Speaker 14 (24:45):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 10 (24:46):
Right, yeah, So that's kind of the idea that that
you get from.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
I mean, I can see, I mean, I know that
women are are really you know, they're moving now, and
I don't want women. I mean, I have all girls,
you know, I have only daughters. I have four daughters.
I have no sons, and so I've always talked to
my daughters. I've never told them that they were limited
in any way. I've never We've never had a conversation
(25:11):
where I said, Hey, because you're a woman, you should
do this, or because you're a woman, you should you
should do you know, you shouldn't do certain things. I
think they choose to do something. I would support them
in whatever they chose, you know, chose to do because
you know, you don't want to break anybody's dreams, you
know what I mean. But at the same time, I
(25:35):
think that we are getting to a point where the
whole idea and now I'm gonna go now, let's just talk.
I'm gona talk about the lgbt Q situation and want
skip toxic masculinity and we'll go there. What do you
think about now, Don Staley?
Speaker 10 (25:53):
Do you know who that is?
Speaker 7 (25:53):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Don Staley is the coach of what team? The one
they just won the championship. We had an undefeated season.
It'll come to me, but I cannot believe that. I
can even see it in my head.
Speaker 14 (26:09):
But he was.
Speaker 10 (26:10):
She was a former w NBA basket star.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I mean, she her swag is off, chained, great player,
doing great in coaching. And they asked her a question
she got scolded to the question was about transgenders are
(26:33):
people who may be transgender playing in the w n
b A or the opposite playing in the NBA.
Speaker 10 (26:40):
I guess, and she did not see anything.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
I don't remember. I can't quote her verbatim, but the
perception was she was saying that she had no problem
with that. So my question to you is that, now
that we are becoming gender neutral, do you think that
a man who wants to or feel like they're a woman,
(27:14):
however that I don't even know how to phrase that
without offending anyone, you know, I mean, I'm all about choices.
Do you think they should be able to play in
the w n b A if a person was, you know,
(27:36):
born a man or born a male.
Speaker 10 (27:40):
I guess I should say, mm hmmm.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
That's the hard I want to say, because you don't
want to say the wrong thing. Yeah, absolutely not, Joe said, no,
absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker 12 (27:58):
I just feel like I tell you, as societal norms
evolve to be more inclusive and equitable, there have been
dramatic shifts in how masculinity and femininity is defined and
express right, and I feel that this is showcased even
through us having talking about this, But in general, I
(28:21):
feel that there's truly any physical imbalance. I don't know
how to explain it. I definitely do believe that men
and women have different physical capabilities, injury rates, you know,
and I just feel that, Yeah, I feel that it's
(28:46):
very for lack of a better word, I feel like,
you know, women's sports should be for women and men's
sports should be for men. And I see it, and
I know you, I don't play any games, and I
tell you, maybe perhaps this might sound very selfish to people,
(29:07):
and I apologize if that does sound selfish, but I don't.
Speaker 14 (29:10):
I'm not a.
Speaker 12 (29:11):
Sports person, but I just come from a very traditional
belief that we are inherently different at our core. And
and that goes to talk about you know, just FOP
feel managed male has different you know, physical capabilities as
a woman. You know, it's put in a game that's
(29:32):
meant to be for women. But that's just my own
kind of view on it.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 14 (29:40):
Well, see this is where we get to the point
where you know, just because a person believes that, uh,
that person should not be able to pay play, you know,
in a women's sport, you know, automatically, you know, you
already paint that picture, uh that person, Uh, you know,
as being somebody that is totally opposed to the whole movement.
Speaker 9 (29:59):
It's else right exactly.
Speaker 14 (30:01):
And then and then you have to to understand that
people are very conflicted from traditional ways and beliefs and
stuff like that, and then whether or not they want
to swing along with the political whim right, but in
all reality is that, you know, that's a bit no
for me, you know, because you look at it. You know,
we we had this thing that came up not too
(30:23):
long ago where there was one uh you know, uh,
a person who actually entered the boxing ring you know,
women's sport right and and and beat someone, you know,
beat a young lady beater bad. You know, no one
saw anything wrong with that at that particular time, because
no one wanted to stand up and and voice that
(30:43):
because of the fear that they was going to have
these repercussions after, you know, speaking out against it. But
right is right and wrong is wrong. Take a stand
on it regardless of how you feel.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that, I mean clearly,
I mean there is.
Speaker 10 (31:02):
There's some things that you just can't make go away.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
Mm hmm. You see what I'm saying. Let me give
you an example and I'm gonna catch a lot of
flak for saying that this man. I mean, well, no,
(31:27):
I'm not gonna say it that way. I'm gonna say
that basically, you know, you are I mean obviously an individual.
Can you know, do whatever I mean, they can take.
They can do become trans you know, change, have a change,
(31:48):
gender changes. Uh, they can take hormones. Uh.
Speaker 10 (31:54):
You know, there's things that can be done, you see
what I mean.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
And and maybe over a period of time, I mean
a lot of the you know how how whatever it happens,
because I'm not an expert on it, then maybe they
will become more feminine and maybe a lot of their
male hormones go away and their physical makeup begins to
start softening, or whatever the case you know may be.
(32:24):
But you know the problem is that you can't you know,
there has to be some sort of way to if
you were to do that, there would have to be
some way to regulate that. And the reality of it is,
you can't regulate that, right because then that begins then
(32:45):
then it's a slippery slope because then I have to
make the determination as to have you become feminine enough
that you can compete with women. You see what I'm saying,
who makes who makes that decision? You see what I mean?
Because it to make it to make get fair. Yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 10 (33:04):
And that's what we're talking about, so you can.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
And that's another thing is that basically, you know, uh,
fairness should be fair across the board, yes, and so
in other words, you want to be fair to the
transgender community, but you also have to be fair to
everybody else. So you cannot impose something that's unfair on
(33:29):
someone who is heterosexual to appease you just because you're transgender.
We have to you know, it has to be fair, right,
So I think that that's where it becomes. You know,
everybody has to you know, has rights exactly, so you
cannot you know, I cannot you know, uh impose or
(33:52):
deny you your rights for the sake of somebody else,
you know what I mean. And I think that that
would be completely unfair to someone who hasn't gone through
you know, that problem, because everybody's going to be different.
Speaker 10 (34:08):
So then what do I say?
Speaker 6 (34:10):
What if Lebron James decides that he wants to play
in the w NBA, Right, you see what I'm saying.
I mean how much hormones do you have to give that.
Speaker 15 (34:21):
Due to be able to you know what I mean,
that's a lot, so everybody, and you know what I mean,
because everybody's going to even because even among men, there's
an imbalance, so you can imagine.
Speaker 10 (34:34):
What it would be like, you see what I mean.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
I think that the issue is I think that what
gets lost in the translation is that we cannot be
selective in our fairness. So in other words, and let's
just say, for example, if you know, let's and then
let's talk a little bit about toxic masculinity.
Speaker 14 (35:00):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
Right, what is toxic masculinity?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
What is it?
Speaker 12 (35:08):
From what I am from a very traditional basically criticizing
men for.
Speaker 9 (35:20):
Being masculine?
Speaker 12 (35:23):
Again, we go back to just you know, feminism kind
of expanding more on this where you know, and I
think it's also a misinterpretation sometimes of feminism, where you know,
feminism in general aims to liberate both men and women
from restrictive gender or talk about toxiclinity.
Speaker 9 (35:48):
It's that.
Speaker 12 (35:50):
Men there, men you know, being provided the work being having.
Speaker 14 (35:59):
You know, but it's not but it's not toxic. It
depends on who actually is viewing it, right, I mean,
you know, it's it's typical for a man to to be,
you know, to be a certain way. And just because
he's a certain way, that does not mean that the
(36:21):
ways in the norms or or traditional ways that he's
been taught is toxic. It's just the individual that's looking
up on that might equate it to being toxic because
they feel that they can't he might think that they
cannot fit that role, you know.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Right, Yeah, I mean I think that you know that
then we still go back to the whole idea of
of of being of our choices, you know what I mean.
So in other words, you know, if I mean, I
don't know what it really means to be a toxic masculinity.
(37:01):
I think that it is.
Speaker 10 (37:05):
I think that it's.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
A bias, and I think that it is inappropriate, and
I think that it's a term that should never ever
actually be used because of what it does. Is it
basically is to me. I think that it's an attack
on me, and I think it is a discripinatory. And
I think what happened is is that we live in
a society where we have made it okay to discriminate
(37:31):
against certain people. And if I happen to be a
man who has a traditional ideology of what my role
is as a man, then don't knock me out because
of the way I feel. I mean, if I'm not
imposing my situation on you, it don't impose your situation
on me.
Speaker 10 (37:48):
You see what I'm saying, you.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Know, I mean, I'm the type of person and I've
always been the type of person that I don't believe
that acceptance has to be the way that we have
to deal with people who are different. I think it's tolerance,
you know, I really you know, I don't have to
(38:10):
understand you to tolerate you. You know, I'm not going
to treat anybody unfairly because of what you know, generally,
what kind of lifestyle they choose, as long as it
doesn't impose on other people, are something that's unfair to
other people. But if you're going to live a lifestyle
(38:30):
that's going to demand that certain people have to conform
and change the way they are to feel that you know,
you will feel comfortable, right, well, then I have the
right to demand for myself to be comfortable, you know.
And I think that that's where you know, it becomes
(38:52):
you know, really problematic. And see one of the things
that I have to say is that, you know, it's
always like you know how some people say, well, well,
whenever something happens in the interview a black person in
the hood, they always get the one that you know
what I mean, I'm I'm I'm a believer that those
(39:14):
who bark the loudest in that community aren't the ones
that reflect the feelings of everybody in that community, you
know what I mean. So I'm not going to castigate
that entire community by saying that. I'm quite sure that
even before we got this whole, you know, we're living
(39:34):
in this culture right of acceptance now, right, well, there's
always been gay people.
Speaker 9 (39:42):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
Right, you know what I'm saying. I mean, it's not
like that we like it's a new thing, you see
what I'm saying. I mean, it's not new, you know
what I mean, It's something that's always existed. And and
you know, I don't think that and I think that
word has become a problem. Is where we begin to
start saying that, you know, you have to accept certain
(40:06):
things from me that I'm I don't have to accept
from you.
Speaker 14 (40:11):
But see that seems to me, and it seems to
be the norm now. The norm now is to paint males,
you know, in terms of being, you know, the toxic masculinity,
to paint them a certain way in order to make
people believe that they don't need this male in order
for them to achieve certain things. And I know that
(40:32):
there's a big push right now. I know that there's
a big push. I mean, we hear one thousand and
one time that you don't need a man in your life.
You can do what you want to do. But you know,
at the first turn of the corner when you need
to jack that car off and change their tire, you know,
not saying you can't do it, but you call somebody,
you know. But I'm just saying that that seemed to
be a big push in that direction, you know. But
(40:52):
if you feel uncomfortable with just the way a person is,
like you say, then you have your own particular belief
Don't cancel me because I have a way of expressing
myself because I have an opinion, and you want to
cancel me just because I speak out against it. But
in the same talking, don't force your your ways and
your beliefs upon me. Everybody have their own own own
(41:13):
different beliefs and their own different systems, the way the
way they think, and so therefore I think that everybody
kind of collides with each other because they I don't know,
whether they just want to stick out, they just want
to you know, be seen or be heard or whatever
it may be. You know. But at the same at
the same time, I just believe that, you know, like
you said, Dulu, everybody needs you to stay in their
own place, have their own beliefs, and everybody live in peace.
Speaker 12 (41:38):
I just to add on to that, I feel like
we we really do live in a society where, you know,
the role, the definition of what it means to be
a female has been extended. The definition of what it
means to be a man has been extended to the
point that it's become so blurred right as to what
it means to be a woman. Even when we talk
(41:58):
about what is talking about with regards to females being
you know, kind of in higher positions and in high
authoritative roles, having been seen as having a demeanor that's
you know, bossy or aggressive per se. Well, you know,
the definition of a female in the workforce has expanded.
You know, women are expected to be emotionally resilient to
(42:22):
have this masculine aspect to their job, and they're constantly
having to, you know, be able to go through male
dominated fields asserting their femininity with a hint of masculinity,
because when we talk about the male way of thinking,
that's kind of what we're kind of taught to do
(42:43):
as females in the workforce. And then now when we
talk about men, you know, men are now able to
be more feminine in certain aspects where it's it's okay
to linger in your emotions, it's okay to be soft
per se, and why these things are not necessarily bad,
it's really toxic that it's gotten to a point where
(43:05):
it's like you can't be you can't be in the middle.
Speaker 14 (43:08):
You have to.
Speaker 12 (43:11):
You know, definition of masculinity or conformed to this definition
of femininity. And I think that's where we kind of
see this gray area of like, well.
Speaker 14 (43:21):
Then what does it mean to be a woman?
Speaker 9 (43:23):
What does it mean to be a man?
Speaker 12 (43:24):
And I feel like in general, our society is looking
towards a way that really pieces apart of family structure,
because now that are growing in these family structures where
it's like, well, what is a mom supposed to do
my mom work, you know, that's supposed to do my
dad maybe stays at home. And while that's okay, you know,
(43:46):
as somebody who's very traditional, I genuinely feel we were
both tended to a role and I feel like that's
you know, where the rules.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Are very.
Speaker 10 (44:01):
Yeah, I mean that's true.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
I mean. And the the other thing when it comes
to the traditional family roles is that basically now that
it takes you know, they try to take the way
of the value of a woman who has that ideology.
You know, it's almost like now you know, you're you're
feeling like she's you know, is worthless because she has
(44:25):
that type of And then on the other hand, you
have the situation where you know, the man, you know,
trying to Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm very traditional. I
mean when it you know, when it comes to the
issue of a man's role in the family and and
what his responsibilities are, and you know, and I think
(44:48):
a lot of the issues of and I'm not you know,
like I said, if that's how you know, people move
the way they move, right if you if you feel
a certain way and you move a certain way standing
on it.
Speaker 10 (44:59):
Man, but at the same time, I think that.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
You know, there's there's there's a lot of I think
it creates significant, uh, it can create significant mental issues
among men when you know, because a man wants to
feel that way, you know what I mean. I mean,
there's a certain I mean, I think there's I mean
his importance, you know, And is it wrong for someone
(45:27):
to feel that way?
Speaker 10 (45:27):
If that's what you know, you've made a choice.
Speaker 6 (45:31):
And now they're making you feel less than because you
know you're you're you know, there's still men out there obviously,
And when I say a man, just because a person
is a homosexual or whether they're heterosexual or bisexual or
whatever they choose to be, you know, there is a
psychosis that goes with all of that. But my my
(45:52):
psychosis is just as important as yours. My mental my
mental well being is just is the same as yours.
If you want to feel a certain way in a relationship,
then I want to feel a certain way in a relationship,
you see what I mean. And and so I think
that as you're beginning to change, you know, you're you're
(46:12):
when we begin to start culturally seeing that you know,
and and and basically you're criticizing and you know, castigating
people based upon the way they feel or the way
(46:33):
they want to be, you know, their roles in their
own relationships. How can you make me feel wrong about
the way that I feel? Now if I come to
a situation like and I tell someone, hey, you know,
I believe that as a man, that I'm supposed to provide,
you know, for my family and my and my wife
believes that, Hey, I think that I'm the I'm the
(46:55):
master of the household. Right then? What's wrong with that?
Speaker 14 (47:00):
M hm?
Speaker 10 (47:01):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 6 (47:03):
And that goes back to the whole idea of the
toxic masculinity. I just don't think that. I think we
need to set back and begin to I mean, don't
don't take away my rights just because somebody else wants
more rights or somebody else wants and then don't don't
I have nothing to do, is no, I've never done
anything to anyone because of their sexuality. I've never done
(47:24):
anything to anybody, you know what I mean? And so
why don't try to punish me because I want to
do what I want to do. But what happens is
they're trying to punish everybody some people, and I'm not
talking about that entirely, but I'm talking about people that
ain't even in that community, you know what I mean,
(47:46):
you know, they they they are you know, I think
that they're they're doing things that kind of can can
can be you know, unfair and make people feel bad,
and you know, you can't say certain things and you
know in the workplace because you know, now we have
this whole and I want to say one more thing
(48:06):
before I go.
Speaker 10 (48:07):
One of the things that happens.
Speaker 6 (48:10):
I think that.
Speaker 10 (48:12):
That me too thing is crazy. And I tell you why.
Speaker 6 (48:17):
I have a friend, right, and my friend is he's
an attorney too, and he used to take his assistance
to you know, court with him. He used to take
his assistance to jails with him. You know, he used
(48:38):
to do that because it was convenient, right. I mean,
he's paying someone to be an assistant and he wants
to take him to certain places because he wants to
be able to you know, he needs to help. But
today with me too, he's in a dilemma because if
he hires a female, he feels uncomfortable. He can't ride
(49:01):
nowhere with him, he can't put he doesn't want someone
there because he's trying to protect himself. Right, So then
what does he do well, you know he's asking me, right,
should he hire a man? M because he doesn't have
to deal with that, He doesn't have to deal with
(49:23):
the possibility that someone can say he made me feel uncomfortable?
Speaker 10 (49:28):
Right, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (49:32):
You know what I mean. So it's like, why am
I going to surround myself with people and put myself
at a you know, uh, jeopardize myself my entire life
because you know where I can avoid that and just
hire a man. And typically that may and that sounds
gender biased just to think that a man wouldn't do that,
(49:53):
which we're seeing with but you know, and and and
and and try to avoid it. Now, who does that help?
Because you don't have I mean, in other words, the
only way that you're going to be caught slipping when
it comes to being gender discrimination is if you say something.
Speaker 14 (50:14):
Lo low?
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Why not.
Speaker 10 (50:17):
What you think? It's a.
Speaker 12 (50:23):
It's a contentious issue for sure, it.
Speaker 6 (50:28):
Is, because I mean it's everybody. Every everything is a
liability now, yes, yes, Now where they're trying to say
we're trying to help people, right, it becomes a liability.
Speaker 12 (50:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (50:43):
That why why even deal with it. Yes, you see
what I'm saying when you can completely just avoid it
altogether because you that is an extra liability because let's
just be completely one hundred and ten percent honest. All
it takes is an allegation.
Speaker 14 (50:59):
That's all.
Speaker 6 (50:59):
Ye, that's true, that's it.
Speaker 10 (51:03):
Yeah, all it text is an allegation.
Speaker 6 (51:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 14 (51:09):
But like you said earlier, like you said early on,
there's there's certain dynamics of it where you shouldn't you
shouldn't like the women shouldn't be in certain places, but
at the same time those places that they are allowed
to be in, then you deal with you deal with
issues like this, you know, I mean it's I mean,
it's ridiculous. But that's just the turn and the way
(51:31):
that society is right now, you know, I mean it's
chaotic right now, you know, And then you know, everybody
wants to be something else, and then the minute you
say you can't be that, then you're discriminating against that person.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
You know.
Speaker 14 (51:44):
First again, something say I'm a carrot, you know, and
nowadays you know you can't say they're not a carot.
You know, whatever it is, you know, but you know,
just just the dynamics of how the twist and terms
of society is they want to counsel you over everything,
you know, just let let me be me, let me,
let me have my own way, let me, you know whatever.
But man, yeah, wow, but even if he hires the male,
(52:06):
you know, he's still subject to the same you know, nowadays,
he's still subject to the same thing, right, Yeah, you
can't get away from it.
Speaker 6 (52:16):
You can't, I mean, And that's and that's kind of
the you know, the issue that we're dealing with in
our society. And I think that you know, ultimately, you know,
how are we going to how you know, what's the
what's the end result? Where are we trying to go
with our society? Is it good to have a society
(52:36):
where you cannot you know, even identifying gender or we
ain't even talking about roles, but just identifying gender is
at a point where you know, that becomes problematic, you
know what I mean. I'm not you know, I don't
understand why, you know what I mean, But it's not
(52:58):
for me to understand. I'm not going want to If
someone doesn't want to be uh recognized based upon you know,
their gender at birth and they feel like they have
a choice to change their gender.
Speaker 10 (53:12):
I mean, you know, that's that's you know, uh that
I guess that's their choice.
Speaker 6 (53:22):
But what is the and and maybe we should have
somebody on the on the show one day that's you know,
that's in that community, and and and you know, can
relate to that particular situation. But my question would be,
you know, I don't understand it.
Speaker 14 (53:40):
Yeah, but I can see I can see that. Uh,
I can see that legal battle coming. I can see
that legal battle coming where it's here. Yeah, it's here already.
But you know, it haven't uh, you know, havn't presented
itself on a on a larger scale. But I think
that at at some point, you know, I think it's
(54:01):
going to tear, you know, sports up, because some people
are going to going to step away from sports when
it does happen, and in whatever other fields there is
that they're going to be allowed to participate in. You know,
it's going to change the whole dynamics of of whether
it be football, baseball, basketball, whatever it is. People are
going to step away from it, and it's going to
(54:22):
change the whole dynamics of the game in general. And
then there's a lot of people not going to even
want to watch or participate in it, you know, but
people are not taking that into consideration. You know. It's
just that if you discriminate, you discriminate. That's the way it's.
Speaker 6 (54:37):
So, yeah, it's a it's a it's one of those things.
It's not going to go away. I mean, there's going
to be significant debate over that issue is as time
goes on. Uh, and it's going to increase. And you know,
I think that, I mean culturally, you know, it's there's
a lot uh. And then the final analysis, you know,
(55:00):
I think that they're you know, the choices of of
of of I mean, because I don't think that it
ever was really at least to a significant degree, because
we had people who you know, that were born males
that you know, wanted to transition into a female or
(55:21):
vice versa.
Speaker 10 (55:22):
I mean, I'm sure you know that happens.
Speaker 6 (55:24):
It's not like it it never happened. But I think
that at this at this juncture now that we are,
I mean, but it's again it's not new. So my
the question is why is it so much help for
to debate at this point? You see what I mean.
(55:44):
So that's where it becomes an issue, you know, that's
why it becomes it's it's you know, sometimes on both sides,
it's almost like a discussion of something new, like you
know what I mean, but understanding that it was always
something that existed, but.
Speaker 10 (56:02):
It was never to the degree that you know, there
is this.
Speaker 6 (56:12):
Mandate that you know, we change our policies or culture
based upon that.
Speaker 10 (56:19):
Why is there a need to change?
Speaker 6 (56:20):
What is it about our culture that's going to change
the way that we I mean, because I mean the reality.
Speaker 10 (56:28):
Of it is is that.
Speaker 6 (56:32):
And some people, some people will related to the struggle
of African Americans, you know what I mean. And I
will tell you that that is very offensive. That's one
percent offensive because one has absolutely nothing to do. None
of that has anything that's even comparable to you know,
(56:54):
and to do that, that's that's problematic.
Speaker 14 (56:59):
But in order to but in order to establish yourself
in the courts, and I guarantee you there's going to
be the case law that they're going to use in
order to present their issue. This thing's has been established
that we established, you know, years ago, in order to
paint that picture that they are being discriminated against. That's
(57:20):
what's going to be the case law.
Speaker 6 (57:21):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean they're trying to you know,
I mean, as far as it being a protected class.
I guess if you have a transition and you are
now female and you want to make a gender claim,
then I guess you could make a gender claim if
you've had this transition. You know, I guess you know,
there's nothing legally but that probably said you couldn't. And
I'm sure I don't know the exact case law on
(57:43):
that issue, to be honest, but I'm quite sure that
that's probably always really been an issue. I don't. I mean,
I think that if someone is fully transitioned and they're
discriminated against, I don't know why it's changed. I don't
know why it's so you know, so vast at this point.
That's that's the question. So political, huh so political political?
(58:08):
And what would be the political advantage? I think, you know,
I mean, I'm saying.
Speaker 14 (58:15):
Why is it coming up now opposed to you know,
so great now? Yeah, you know, we got elections coming up.
Speaker 6 (58:26):
Well, I'm talking about it's just been over the last
few years, even beyond that, just the whole and I
understand that people are bringing it out in order to to,
you know, use to split people up and to make
you know, one side against the other. But I think
that there is this you know, everybody wants to be
(58:48):
a victim. M hm.
Speaker 14 (58:52):
Hmm.
Speaker 6 (58:52):
You see what I mean, But I don't think that
they're you know, but I think you only make yourself
a victim. Yeah, you know what I mean. But I mean,
I love everybody, man, you know what I mean, But
just just be fair to me. Correct consider my rights
and I'll consider everybody else's and we all should should
(59:14):
consider everybody rice and be good to everybody.
Speaker 10 (59:17):
But we need to keep talking about this.
Speaker 6 (59:19):
We'll talk about this in another you know, some other time,
because I think it's a great subject can get somebody on.
But at at any rate, thank you for tuning in
for this edition of Justice Watch. We'll see you next week,
same time, same place, same channel, and until that time,
stay blessed.
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Speaker 8 (03:26):
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(03:48):
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Speaker 7 (03:55):
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Speaker 6 (04:09):
You know how I did it.
Speaker 7 (04:10):
I listened to damn water Boys on the waters on
every Thursday night on KCIA. Well, I got me a
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(04:32):
now screaming online.
Speaker 8 (04:35):
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Speaker 9 (04:36):
What it's streaming you don't.
Speaker 7 (04:39):
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Speaker 4 (04:53):
Behind k see a a mm hmmmmm mm hmmm.
Speaker 9 (05:05):
Hm got to pay back, mm hmmm mm hmmm. I'm mad.
I got to get back.
Speaker 6 (05:26):
Thank you for tuning in for this edition of Justice
Watching Attorneys l I am attorney Zulu and social justice
issues that are impacting our work community.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
UH.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
This week, UH, we'll be talking about the UH and
I think we got somebody there, Joe.
Speaker 10 (05:55):
We'll actually be talking about the.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Women in the workplace, toxic toxic masculinity, and the LGBTQ debate. Right,
you're with us, Rosen, Well, I'm here, okay, all right, So.
Speaker 11 (06:19):
Yeah, so anyway, so you hear I talked about, Yes, women.
Speaker 10 (06:31):
In the workplace. Yeah, you got somebody also on again.
Speaker 6 (06:39):
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, so one of the things I
wanted to talk about as far as women in the workplace,
which I know is going to be kind of a
sensitive subject, I guess for the lack of a better term,
But what I wanted to talk about when it comes
to the issue of women in the workplace, one of
(07:01):
the things that I kind of wanted to hit on
is we asked, we posed a question last week, right,
and what the question was last week was and this
is just kind of I mean, we're going to expand it,
but the topic was, you know, what we're seeing is
we're seeing more And I'm just gonna start out with
(07:23):
the military and then we'll back up and we'll talk
about the civilian aspect of it. But what we're seeing
in the in the in the military is that a
lot of they're allowing a lot more women to be
engaged in combat related moss and MOS is a military
occupational specialty.
Speaker 10 (07:43):
That's what they call it, just a job.
Speaker 6 (07:46):
So now that you're having the women come into the
mos of doing uh, you know, and when I say combat,
I'm talking about typically in the military, people have different jobs.
Some of the jobs are administrative, some of the jobs
are support, some of the jobs are cooked, some jobs
are medical. And then you have, you know, the people
that they consider to be the combat the grunts is
(08:07):
what they're usually called in most military you I mean
military branches. And then you have the special forces, which
would include any where. You have the seals, you have
the recon, you have the rangers, you have Army special forces.
(08:28):
So you also have this whole you know, special forces
in it. So the question is.
Speaker 10 (08:35):
Should women be allowed to be in combat?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Wow?
Speaker 10 (08:43):
Are not being comeback but be in the capacity of
a of infantry? What you think?
Speaker 12 (08:51):
This is a tough one because they could say I
feel like I've learned a line and I feel like
I really do support the traditional understanding of gender roles,
you know, outlined as a Christian in the Bible, I
feel like both men and women have distinct girls and
(09:12):
responsibility within the church within you know, the family and
with girls, you know, different contexts vary and they are
all rooted, you know, in different principles, you know, respect
for mutual mission. And I feel like in general, family
(09:36):
to build about, you know, rather than superiority and inferiority.
And I feel like when you talk about women going
out there to combat, I feel like it's not necessarily
doubting that you're capable, but I feel like it's definitely
a role that biological men are, you know, they're inherently stronger.
(10:01):
And when I think of a woman in combat, you know,
as someone who I tell you, I'm coming from a
perspective of a Christian woman, that to me is a
bit I don't feel too on the side. Yeah, because
I believe roles you know that are very traditional.
Speaker 6 (10:22):
But that's my perspective, right, So you do think they
should expand it.
Speaker 12 (10:30):
I do think they should expand the.
Speaker 10 (10:35):
You think they should allow women to be in combat roles?
Speaker 6 (10:41):
I don't think so, you said, no, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
I don't think.
Speaker 12 (10:48):
And I tell you, I'm coming from a very traditional
perspective where I feel like men are biologically stronger, We're
biologically made differently, and I feel like you are for
these positions.
Speaker 6 (11:02):
Right, Okay, so I'm gonna say I'm gonna play Devil's advocate. Well,
first of all, well let me first go and and
and just piggyback off what you said. And I'm going
to uh add something else to what you said that
(11:23):
whenever you I mean clearly, when you're talking about that
type of occupation, specifically, if you're talking about you know, infantry,
and when you're talking about special forces, when you're talking
about all those types of units, you know it is
a a the ultimate team sport, so to speak. I mean,
(11:47):
teamwork means everything. I mean, you know, when you when
life and death is an issue, you have to work
in a in an effort that is unprecedented.
Speaker 10 (11:58):
I mean, you really have to have each other's back.
Speaker 6 (12:00):
Those those guys actually become brothers, so to speak.
Speaker 13 (12:04):
Right, and you know my thoughts are that and this
and this is not my thoughts, okay, and playing the
Devil's advocate, Okay.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
So the point is is that you can make the argument,
there's the argument that whenever you have this team dynamics,
that when a woman is is basically put in that dynamics,
that ultimately the team, the unit, the changes. So In
(12:39):
other words, there's a couple of things. Whenever you have
according to some of my friends, whenever you have a
team dynamic, then when a woman gets involved, then the
way men relate to each other even changes, correct, you
(13:00):
see what I mean. So in other words, if you
have a you know, if you have four or five
guys that are in a unit and they relate to
each other in a certain way, you know, you know
that brothers oftentimes when I mean, I even let me
just tell you this. I can just tell you this
(13:21):
from my own personal perspective. I have friends that I
talked to on the phone, right, and when you talk
on the phone, if there I can always tell when
their wife is in the room, because when their wife
(13:42):
is in the room, it's a totally different conversation, right,
They tend to, you know, talk a little bit differently
and relate a little bit differently.
Speaker 10 (13:53):
I mean, you can you can just you know, kind
of tell.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
You know what I mean, And so that there's this
whole you know, I mean, you know how we are.
We're like to you know, we're not always smart, and
we like to beat our chests, right, and then when
we get in front of a woman, it's just like
we get all goofy, right, some of us right, And
I'm just being stereotypical, and I'm just trying to put,
(14:18):
you know, just an argument out there. And when that happens,
oftentimes at least from our perspective, then you know, it
creates there's jealousy and envy and trying to you know,
then you know you got some dudes. I mean, if
you're in the unit, you know, then that's why when
they have prisons, they have men prisons and women prisons.
(14:41):
You see what I'm saying, Why wouldn't they? I mean
I think that you know another reason for that, you
see what I mean, obvious reasons, right, And you know,
I mean the the the the you know, when you're
out in the field for you know, anywhere for six
months to year sometimes more, right, it becomes a problem.
(15:04):
I remember when I was in a Marine Corps, the
only ships that have men and women on them, at
least back then were hospital ships. Yeah, and I remember
that there was a particular ship that was quarantine when
it poorted at Pearl Harbor. And the reason why it
was quarantine is because of a veneural.
Speaker 10 (15:24):
Disease on the ship.
Speaker 6 (15:27):
Not to say that there couldn't be a veneural disease
with just men on the ship, right, But I'm just
saying that, you know, you you do have that dynamics
there that that adds to it. So on one hand,
that could be a problem, right, those those two things,
because you're there. And then also there's another thing too.
I mean, there are still gentlemen in the world. Yeah,
(15:51):
you know what I mean. So so the reality of
it is is that and I can just tell you this,
and I'll say it on the air. I act differently
towards women and I do men. M if we're walking
out the door and you are here and my wife
is here, I'm probably gonna open the door and let
you and my wife walk out the door, right, and
(16:15):
allows probably gonna walk out behind them.
Speaker 10 (16:17):
You see what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (16:18):
I mean, let's just keep it real, right, Yeah, I mean,
you know, and and you're being a gentleman. So when
you're talking, when you're in an atmosphere where you know,
you really have not to say that a woman cannot
to some degree hold her weight. But as a man,
you know, there's certain things that you know you're not
going to allow. Many guys are not gonna allow women
(16:40):
to do it, So even if they want to, that's
a difficult thing to do, right, So it does from
that perspective, and I'm just talking about a million the
woman in combat just just from from that perspective. But
we'll get into the Savilian aspect of it too. What
you got anything as far as that particular issue.
Speaker 14 (16:59):
Well, well, I agree that they I agree that they
do have a particular role, but I don't want it
to get equated to thinking that they're not capable of
doing something, because I think a lot of people are capable,
(17:19):
a lot of women are capable of certain roles. But
then there's that certain role that they should stay away
from because you say it does change the dynamics of it,
because I know for a fact that like you say,
men beat their chest, they act differently, you know, when
a women, When a woman is involved, you know, I
(17:40):
might want to be that show boat, that show boat,
you know, especially if I'm gonna if I if i'm gonna,
I'm on a field, I'm out here in battle, right
regardless of I'm fighting or not, I might tend to
show off a little bit more than a typical person
because I want to be impressive and that's just the
reality of it, you know, And it changed the whole dynamics,
(18:00):
especially when it comes to when it comes to being
in the field of you know, fighting, you know, and
and stuff like that. But as far as like whether
or not they're capable, I believe that the women are
capable of holding your own. But I think that it
it changes the dynamics of everything, and it could be
detrimental opposed to something that's beneficial.
Speaker 6 (18:24):
I mean, have we gotten and before we get there,
I mean, have we gotten to a point where to
to like what you said, Rosa, I mean the statement
that you made that would come across very controversial to
a lot of people. Yeah, because you said, you know
what I mean, and so you know you're speaking your truth.
(18:46):
But oftentimes we're fearful of speaking the truth correct because
if we do, then you know, we're living in that
that that that timeline where and I want to talk
We'll talk about toxic masculinity next.
Speaker 10 (19:00):
That's an issue.
Speaker 6 (19:00):
But then outside of the you know, when we talk
about the military or paramilitary types of jobs, what about that?
I mean, do you think I mean, clearly there's probably
sevilian jobs that we traditionally will see as a man's job.
For example, maybe a fireman, maybe a police officer. We
(19:24):
have some very fine female farm when I say, fine,
like do their job firemen and police officers. Right, we
know that we know that they do exist their career.
People that are in managed, they're in leadership, and they're
very capable of you know, at least you know, uh
(19:45):
many of them probably to do you know, their job,
you know what I mean. Now let's just go back
to another issue. Now I'm gonna I'm playing devil's advocate, right.
You know you said something earlier about the make up.
You know, a man's strength and I'm talking about physical
(20:07):
physical strength compared to a woman's strength.
Speaker 10 (20:11):
Where sometimes in.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Some of these jobs they are relevant, you know what
I mean, they really, they really are relevant.
Speaker 15 (20:18):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
It will make a difference in some cases as to
a certain function between a man, let's just say, trying
to you know, have to address or deal with a
purpose a suspect for example. You know, there's there's there
(20:42):
can be differences. Of course, there's you know, there's always
other methods that can be used, such as non lethal
force that a woman may be able to use as
a result of that, Joe, I think we got somebody,
but you know, it can become become an issue. So
that's one thing the paramilitary situation. Now, I'm going to
(21:06):
also tell you something that I've heard in the field
of law. Right, there's a lot and I've heard it
from women. Now I'm telling you that this is the
guy's on this truth. There's a lot of women who
prefer not to deal with the other women on the job.
M Have you heard that before?
Speaker 12 (21:28):
Definitely?
Speaker 14 (21:29):
Definitely?
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yeah. And and and why is that?
Speaker 10 (21:32):
Why would a woman not want to necessarily deal with
another woman on the job.
Speaker 12 (21:39):
I genuine feel that it stems from feelings of I mean,
there's just this sense of like rivalry that just it's
an unspoken rivalry at work. I'm not sure where that
stems from. I'm not sure if it's cultural. And I
feel like initially I thought it was truth, but it's
(22:01):
just the warmth. It's almost like you you have to
be the best out with your rats, and you're constantly
competing with your counterpart. That's where I see it from.
Speaker 14 (22:13):
I definitely do sense that.
Speaker 10 (22:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:17):
One of the things that I also heard is like,
let me ask you this question and I'm gonna just
ask you, okay, So, Belila, if you had to go
to court and there was a male judge and a
female judge, and you had to choose between which one
you would go in front of, which one would you
go in front of?
Speaker 14 (22:39):
Probably go up before the female judge because in my
mind I figured that I might be able to appease
her or you know, appeal to her a sensitive side.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
So to speak. What about you, Joe, It's okay, you
tell the truth a man, and what about you Rosen?
Speaker 12 (23:06):
I mean, as a female, I would.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Say a male.
Speaker 10 (23:10):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
Now what you said.
Speaker 10 (23:14):
Loud is probably what scares people.
Speaker 6 (23:17):
And the reason why is because I think that you
see sometimes over compensation, because this belief that women are
going to be softer or you know what I mean.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
Sometimes I think that you get the reverse, yeah, you.
Speaker 7 (23:34):
Know what I mean.
Speaker 6 (23:34):
So in other words, although they know that they may
even be that way, they may, you know, they feel like, well,
if I if I come across this way, then they're
going to say, you know what I mean, because I'm
a woman, but I'm going to do it this way
and be harsher just to overcompensate or compensate you know
what I mean, And I personally have seen that, you know,
(23:57):
where I feel like there's an and sometimes even like
with das and district attorneys, female district attorneys in my
I can just say this, I don't know if gender
has anything to do with it. So I'm sure somebody's
gonna say, well, why'd you bring it up?
Speaker 10 (24:11):
Right? But I can say that.
Speaker 6 (24:17):
The toughest ones I've had are typically I've dealt with
DA's who were marines, right and and come from you
know that type of you know background, and I've dealt
with and I can say that they tend to be tough,
to be a lot tougher and less sensitive in many ways,
(24:38):
or at least appear to be less sensitive or or.
Speaker 10 (24:41):
Tend to be take those things personally.
Speaker 14 (24:45):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 10 (24:46):
Right, yeah, So that's kind of the idea that that
you get from.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
I mean, I can see, I mean, I know that
women are are really you know, they're moving now, and
I don't want women. I mean, I have all girls,
you know, I have only daughters. I have four daughters.
I have no sons, and so I've always talked to
my daughters. I've never told them that they were limited
in any way. I've never We've never had a conversation
(25:11):
where I said, Hey, because you're a woman, you should
do this, or because you're a woman, you should you
should do you know, you shouldn't do certain things. I
think they choose to do something. I would support them
in whatever they chose, you know, chose to do because
you know, you don't want to break anybody's dreams, you
know what I mean. But at the same time, I
(25:35):
think that we are getting to a point where the
whole idea and now I'm gonna go now, let's just talk.
I'm gona talk about the lgbt Q situation and want
skip toxic masculinity and we'll go there. What do you
think about now, Don Staley?
Speaker 10 (25:53):
Do you know who that is?
Speaker 7 (25:53):
Yes?
Speaker 6 (25:54):
Don Staley is the coach of what team? The one
they just won the championship. We had an undefeated season.
It'll come to me, but I cannot believe that. I
can even see it in my head.
Speaker 14 (26:09):
But he was.
Speaker 10 (26:10):
She was a former w NBA basket star.
Speaker 6 (26:13):
I mean, she her swag is off, chained, great player,
doing great in coaching. And they asked her a question
she got scolded to the question was about transgenders are
(26:33):
people who may be transgender playing in the w n
b A or the opposite playing in the NBA.
Speaker 10 (26:40):
I guess, and she did not see anything.
Speaker 6 (26:43):
I don't remember. I can't quote her verbatim, but the
perception was she was saying that she had no problem
with that. So my question to you is that, now
that we are becoming gender neutral, do you think that
a man who wants to or feel like they're a woman,
(27:14):
however that I don't even know how to phrase that
without offending anyone, you know, I mean, I'm all about choices.
Do you think they should be able to play in
the w n b A if a person was, you know,
(27:36):
born a man or born a male.
Speaker 10 (27:40):
I guess I should say, mm hmmm.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
That's the hard I want to say, because you don't
want to say the wrong thing. Yeah, absolutely not, Joe said, no,
absolutely not. Yeah.
Speaker 12 (27:58):
I just feel like I tell you, as societal norms
evolve to be more inclusive and equitable, there have been
dramatic shifts in how masculinity and femininity is defined and
express right, and I feel that this is showcased even
through us having talking about this, But in general, I
(28:21):
feel that there's truly any physical imbalance. I don't know
how to explain it. I definitely do believe that men
and women have different physical capabilities, injury rates, you know,
and I just feel that, Yeah, I feel that it's
(28:46):
very for lack of a better word, I feel like,
you know, women's sports should be for women and men's
sports should be for men. And I see it, and
I know you, I don't play any games, and I
tell you, maybe perhaps this might sound very selfish to people,
(29:07):
and I apologize if that does sound selfish, but I don't.
Speaker 14 (29:10):
I'm not a.
Speaker 12 (29:11):
Sports person, but I just come from a very traditional
belief that we are inherently different at our core. And
and that goes to talk about you know, just FOP
feel managed male has different you know, physical capabilities as
a woman. You know, it's put in a game that's
(29:32):
meant to be for women. But that's just my own
kind of view on it.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 14 (29:40):
Well, see this is where we get to the point
where you know, just because a person believes that, uh,
that person should not be able to pay play, you know,
in a women's sport, you know, automatically, you know, you
already paint that picture, uh that person, Uh, you know,
as being somebody that is totally opposed to the whole movement.
Speaker 9 (29:59):
It's else right exactly.
Speaker 14 (30:01):
And then and then you have to to understand that
people are very conflicted from traditional ways and beliefs and
stuff like that, and then whether or not they want
to swing along with the political whim right, but in
all reality is that, you know, that's a bit no
for me, you know, because you look at it. You know,
we we had this thing that came up not too
(30:23):
long ago where there was one uh you know, uh,
a person who actually entered the boxing ring you know,
women's sport right and and and beat someone, you know,
beat a young lady beater bad. You know, no one
saw anything wrong with that at that particular time, because
no one wanted to stand up and and voice that
(30:43):
because of the fear that they was going to have
these repercussions after, you know, speaking out against it. But
right is right and wrong is wrong. Take a stand
on it regardless of how you feel.
Speaker 6 (30:53):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that, I mean clearly,
I mean there is.
Speaker 10 (31:02):
There's some things that you just can't make go away.
Speaker 6 (31:06):
Mm hmm. You see what I'm saying. Let me give
you an example and I'm gonna catch a lot of
flak for saying that this man. I mean, well, no,
(31:27):
I'm not gonna say it that way. I'm gonna say
that basically, you know, you are I mean obviously an individual.
Can you know, do whatever I mean, they can take.
They can do become trans you know, change, have a change,
(31:48):
gender changes. Uh, they can take hormones. Uh.
Speaker 10 (31:54):
You know, there's things that can be done, you see
what I mean.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
And and maybe over a period of time, I mean
a lot of the you know how how whatever it happens,
because I'm not an expert on it, then maybe they
will become more feminine and maybe a lot of their
male hormones go away and their physical makeup begins to
start softening, or whatever the case you know may be.
(32:24):
But you know the problem is that you can't you know,
there has to be some sort of way to if
you were to do that, there would have to be
some way to regulate that. And the reality of it is,
you can't regulate that, right because then that begins then
(32:45):
then it's a slippery slope because then I have to
make the determination as to have you become feminine enough
that you can compete with women. You see what I'm saying,
who makes who makes that decision? You see what I mean?
Because it to make it to make get fair. Yeah,
you know what I mean.
Speaker 10 (33:04):
And that's what we're talking about, so you can.
Speaker 6 (33:06):
And that's another thing is that basically, you know, uh,
fairness should be fair across the board, yes, and so
in other words, you want to be fair to the
transgender community, but you also have to be fair to
everybody else. So you cannot impose something that's unfair on
(33:29):
someone who is heterosexual to appease you just because you're transgender.
We have to you know, it has to be fair, right,
So I think that that's where it becomes. You know,
everybody has to you know, has rights exactly, so you
cannot you know, I cannot you know, uh impose or
(33:52):
deny you your rights for the sake of somebody else,
you know what I mean. And I think that that
would be completely unfair to someone who hasn't gone through
you know, that problem, because everybody's going to be different.
Speaker 10 (34:08):
So then what do I say?
Speaker 6 (34:10):
What if Lebron James decides that he wants to play
in the w NBA, Right, you see what I'm saying.
I mean how much hormones do you have to give that.
Speaker 15 (34:21):
Due to be able to you know what I mean,
that's a lot, so everybody, and you know what I mean,
because everybody's going to even because even among men, there's
an imbalance, so you can imagine.
Speaker 10 (34:34):
What it would be like, you see what I mean.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
I think that the issue is I think that what
gets lost in the translation is that we cannot be
selective in our fairness. So in other words, and let's
just say, for example, if you know, let's and then
let's talk a little bit about toxic masculinity.
Speaker 14 (35:00):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 6 (35:01):
Right, what is toxic masculinity?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
What is it?
Speaker 12 (35:08):
From what I am from a very traditional basically criticizing
men for.
Speaker 9 (35:20):
Being masculine?
Speaker 12 (35:23):
Again, we go back to just you know, feminism kind
of expanding more on this where you know, and I
think it's also a misinterpretation sometimes of feminism, where you know,
feminism in general aims to liberate both men and women
from restrictive gender or talk about toxiclinity.
Speaker 9 (35:48):
It's that.
Speaker 12 (35:50):
Men there, men you know, being provided the work being having.
Speaker 14 (35:59):
You know, but it's not but it's not toxic. It
depends on who actually is viewing it, right, I mean,
you know, it's it's typical for a man to to be,
you know, to be a certain way. And just because
he's a certain way, that does not mean that the
(36:21):
ways in the norms or or traditional ways that he's
been taught is toxic. It's just the individual that's looking
up on that might equate it to being toxic because
they feel that they can't he might think that they
cannot fit that role, you know.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
Right, Yeah, I mean I think that you know that
then we still go back to the whole idea of
of of being of our choices, you know what I mean.
So in other words, you know, if I mean, I
don't know what it really means to be a toxic masculinity.
(37:01):
I think that it is.
Speaker 10 (37:05):
I think that it's.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
A bias, and I think that it is inappropriate, and
I think that it's a term that should never ever
actually be used because of what it does. Is it
basically is to me. I think that it's an attack
on me, and I think it is a discripinatory. And
I think what happened is is that we live in
a society where we have made it okay to discriminate
(37:31):
against certain people. And if I happen to be a
man who has a traditional ideology of what my role
is as a man, then don't knock me out because
of the way I feel. I mean, if I'm not
imposing my situation on you, it don't impose your situation
on me.
Speaker 10 (37:48):
You see what I'm saying, you.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Know, I mean, I'm the type of person and I've
always been the type of person that I don't believe
that acceptance has to be the way that we have
to deal with people who are different. I think it's tolerance,
you know, I really you know, I don't have to
(38:10):
understand you to tolerate you. You know, I'm not going
to treat anybody unfairly because of what you know, generally,
what kind of lifestyle they choose, as long as it
doesn't impose on other people, are something that's unfair to
other people. But if you're going to live a lifestyle
(38:30):
that's going to demand that certain people have to conform
and change the way they are to feel that you know,
you will feel comfortable, right, well, then I have the
right to demand for myself to be comfortable, you know.
And I think that that's where you know, it becomes
(38:52):
you know, really problematic. And see one of the things
that I have to say is that, you know, it's
always like you know how some people say, well, well,
whenever something happens in the interview a black person in
the hood, they always get the one that you know
what I mean, I'm I'm I'm a believer that those
(39:14):
who bark the loudest in that community aren't the ones
that reflect the feelings of everybody in that community, you
know what I mean. So I'm not going to castigate
that entire community by saying that. I'm quite sure that
even before we got this whole, you know, we're living
(39:34):
in this culture right of acceptance now, right, well, there's
always been gay people.
Speaker 9 (39:42):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 6 (39:43):
Right, you know what I'm saying. I mean, it's not
like that we like it's a new thing, you see
what I'm saying. I mean, it's not new, you know
what I mean, It's something that's always existed. And and
you know, I don't think that and I think that
word has become a problem. Is where we begin to
start saying that, you know, you have to accept certain
(40:06):
things from me that I'm I don't have to accept
from you.
Speaker 14 (40:11):
But see that seems to me, and it seems to
be the norm now. The norm now is to paint males,
you know, in terms of being, you know, the toxic masculinity,
to paint them a certain way in order to make
people believe that they don't need this male in order
for them to achieve certain things. And I know that
(40:32):
there's a big push right now. I know that there's
a big push. I mean, we hear one thousand and
one time that you don't need a man in your life.
You can do what you want to do. But you know,
at the first turn of the corner when you need
to jack that car off and change their tire, you know,
not saying you can't do it, but you call somebody,
you know. But I'm just saying that that seemed to
be a big push in that direction, you know. But
(40:52):
if you feel uncomfortable with just the way a person is,
like you say, then you have your own particular belief
Don't cancel me because I have a way of expressing
myself because I have an opinion, and you want to
cancel me just because I speak out against it. But
in the same talking, don't force your your ways and
your beliefs upon me. Everybody have their own own own
(41:13):
different beliefs and their own different systems, the way the
way they think, and so therefore I think that everybody
kind of collides with each other because they I don't know,
whether they just want to stick out, they just want
to you know, be seen or be heard or whatever
it may be. You know. But at the same at
the same time, I just believe that, you know, like
you said, Dulu, everybody needs you to stay in their
own place, have their own beliefs, and everybody live in peace.
Speaker 12 (41:38):
I just to add on to that, I feel like
we we really do live in a society where, you know,
the role, the definition of what it means to be
a female has been extended. The definition of what it
means to be a man has been extended to the
point that it's become so blurred right as to what
it means to be a woman. Even when we talk
(41:58):
about what is talking about with regards to females being
you know, kind of in higher positions and in high
authoritative roles, having been seen as having a demeanor that's
you know, bossy or aggressive per se. Well, you know,
the definition of a female in the workforce has expanded.
You know, women are expected to be emotionally resilient to
(42:22):
have this masculine aspect to their job, and they're constantly
having to, you know, be able to go through male
dominated fields asserting their femininity with a hint of masculinity,
because when we talk about the male way of thinking,
that's kind of what we're kind of taught to do
(42:43):
as females in the workforce. And then now when we
talk about men, you know, men are now able to
be more feminine in certain aspects where it's it's okay
to linger in your emotions, it's okay to be soft
per se, and why these things are not necessarily bad,
it's really toxic that it's gotten to a point where
(43:05):
it's like you can't be you can't be in the middle.
Speaker 14 (43:08):
You have to.
Speaker 12 (43:11):
You know, definition of masculinity or conformed to this definition
of femininity. And I think that's where we kind of
see this gray area of like, well.
Speaker 14 (43:21):
Then what does it mean to be a woman?
Speaker 9 (43:23):
What does it mean to be a man?
Speaker 12 (43:24):
And I feel like in general, our society is looking
towards a way that really pieces apart of family structure,
because now that are growing in these family structures where
it's like, well, what is a mom supposed to do
my mom work, you know, that's supposed to do my
dad maybe stays at home. And while that's okay, you know,
(43:46):
as somebody who's very traditional, I genuinely feel we were
both tended to a role and I feel like that's
you know, where the rules.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Are very.
Speaker 10 (44:01):
Yeah, I mean that's true.
Speaker 6 (44:03):
I mean. And the the other thing when it comes
to the traditional family roles is that basically now that
it takes you know, they try to take the way
of the value of a woman who has that ideology.
You know, it's almost like now you know, you're you're
feeling like she's you know, is worthless because she has
(44:25):
that type of And then on the other hand, you
have the situation where you know, the man, you know,
trying to Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm very traditional. I
mean when it you know, when it comes to the
issue of a man's role in the family and and
what his responsibilities are, and you know, and I think
(44:48):
a lot of the issues of and I'm not you know,
like I said, if that's how you know, people move
the way they move, right if you if you feel
a certain way and you move a certain way standing
on it.
Speaker 10 (44:59):
Man, but at the same time, I think that.
Speaker 6 (45:05):
You know, there's there's there's a lot of I think
it creates significant, uh, it can create significant mental issues
among men when you know, because a man wants to
feel that way, you know what I mean. I mean,
there's a certain I mean, I think there's I mean
his importance, you know, And is it wrong for someone
(45:27):
to feel that way?
Speaker 10 (45:27):
If that's what you know, you've made a choice.
Speaker 6 (45:31):
And now they're making you feel less than because you
know you're you're you know, there's still men out there obviously,
And when I say a man, just because a person
is a homosexual or whether they're heterosexual or bisexual or
whatever they choose to be, you know, there is a
psychosis that goes with all of that. But my my
(45:52):
psychosis is just as important as yours. My mental my
mental well being is just is the same as yours.
If you want to feel a certain way in a relationship,
then I want to feel a certain way in a relationship,
you see what I mean. And and so I think
that as you're beginning to change, you know, you're you're
(46:12):
when we begin to start culturally seeing that you know,
and and and basically you're criticizing and you know, castigating
people based upon the way they feel or the way
(46:33):
they want to be, you know, their roles in their
own relationships. How can you make me feel wrong about
the way that I feel? Now if I come to
a situation like and I tell someone, hey, you know,
I believe that as a man, that I'm supposed to provide,
you know, for my family and my and my wife
believes that, Hey, I think that I'm the I'm the
(46:55):
master of the household. Right then? What's wrong with that?
Speaker 14 (47:00):
M hm?
Speaker 10 (47:01):
You know what I mean?
Speaker 6 (47:03):
And that goes back to the whole idea of the
toxic masculinity. I just don't think that. I think we
need to set back and begin to I mean, don't
don't take away my rights just because somebody else wants
more rights or somebody else wants and then don't don't
I have nothing to do, is no, I've never done
anything to anyone because of their sexuality. I've never done
(47:24):
anything to anybody, you know what I mean? And so
why don't try to punish me because I want to
do what I want to do. But what happens is
they're trying to punish everybody some people, and I'm not
talking about that entirely, but I'm talking about people that
ain't even in that community, you know what I mean,
(47:46):
you know, they they they are you know, I think
that they're they're doing things that kind of can can
can be you know, unfair and make people feel bad,
and you know, you can't say certain things and you
know in the workplace because you know, now we have
this whole and I want to say one more thing
(48:06):
before I go.
Speaker 10 (48:07):
One of the things that happens.
Speaker 6 (48:10):
I think that.
Speaker 10 (48:12):
That me too thing is crazy. And I tell you why.
Speaker 6 (48:17):
I have a friend, right, and my friend is he's
an attorney too, and he used to take his assistance
to you know, court with him. He used to take
his assistance to jails with him. You know, he used
(48:38):
to do that because it was convenient, right. I mean,
he's paying someone to be an assistant and he wants
to take him to certain places because he wants to
be able to you know, he needs to help. But
today with me too, he's in a dilemma because if
he hires a female, he feels uncomfortable. He can't ride
(49:01):
nowhere with him, he can't put he doesn't want someone
there because he's trying to protect himself. Right, So then
what does he do well, you know he's asking me, right,
should he hire a man? M because he doesn't have
to deal with that, He doesn't have to deal with
(49:23):
the possibility that someone can say he made me feel uncomfortable?
Speaker 10 (49:28):
Right, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (49:32):
You know what I mean. So it's like, why am
I going to surround myself with people and put myself
at a you know, uh, jeopardize myself my entire life
because you know where I can avoid that and just
hire a man. And typically that may and that sounds
gender biased just to think that a man wouldn't do that,
(49:53):
which we're seeing with but you know, and and and
and and try to avoid it. Now, who does that help?
Because you don't have I mean, in other words, the
only way that you're going to be caught slipping when
it comes to being gender discrimination is if you say something.
Speaker 14 (50:14):
Lo low?
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Why not.
Speaker 10 (50:17):
What you think? It's a.
Speaker 12 (50:23):
It's a contentious issue for sure, it.
Speaker 6 (50:28):
Is, because I mean it's everybody. Every everything is a
liability now, yes, yes, Now where they're trying to say
we're trying to help people, right, it becomes a liability.
Speaker 12 (50:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (50:43):
That why why even deal with it. Yes, you see
what I'm saying when you can completely just avoid it
altogether because you that is an extra liability because let's
just be completely one hundred and ten percent honest. All
it takes is an allegation.
Speaker 14 (50:59):
That's all.
Speaker 6 (50:59):
Ye, that's true, that's it.
Speaker 10 (51:03):
Yeah, all it text is an allegation.
Speaker 6 (51:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 14 (51:09):
But like you said earlier, like you said early on,
there's there's certain dynamics of it where you shouldn't you
shouldn't like the women shouldn't be in certain places, but
at the same time those places that they are allowed
to be in, then you deal with you deal with
issues like this, you know, I mean it's I mean,
it's ridiculous. But that's just the turn and the way
(51:31):
that society is right now, you know, I mean it's
chaotic right now, you know, And then you know, everybody
wants to be something else, and then the minute you
say you can't be that, then you're discriminating against that person.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
You know.
Speaker 14 (51:44):
First again, something say I'm a carrot, you know, and
nowadays you know you can't say they're not a carot.
You know, whatever it is, you know, but you know,
just just the dynamics of how the twist and terms
of society is they want to counsel you over everything,
you know, just let let me be me, let me,
let me have my own way, let me, you know whatever.
But man, yeah, wow, but even if he hires the male,
(52:06):
you know, he's still subject to the same you know, nowadays,
he's still subject to the same thing, right, Yeah, you
can't get away from it.
Speaker 6 (52:16):
You can't, I mean, And that's and that's kind of
the you know, the issue that we're dealing with in
our society. And I think that you know, ultimately, you know,
how are we going to how you know, what's the
what's the end result? Where are we trying to go
with our society? Is it good to have a society
(52:36):
where you cannot you know, even identifying gender or we
ain't even talking about roles, but just identifying gender is
at a point where you know, that becomes problematic, you
know what I mean. I'm not you know, I don't
understand why, you know what I mean, But it's not
(52:58):
for me to understand. I'm not going want to If
someone doesn't want to be uh recognized based upon you know,
their gender at birth and they feel like they have
a choice to change their gender.
Speaker 10 (53:12):
I mean, you know, that's that's you know, uh that
I guess that's their choice.
Speaker 6 (53:22):
But what is the and and maybe we should have
somebody on the on the show one day that's you know,
that's in that community, and and and you know, can
relate to that particular situation. But my question would be,
you know, I don't understand it.
Speaker 14 (53:40):
Yeah, but I can see I can see that. Uh,
I can see that legal battle coming. I can see
that legal battle coming where it's here. Yeah, it's here already.
But you know, it haven't uh, you know, havn't presented
itself on a on a larger scale. But I think
that at at some point, you know, I think it's
(54:01):
going to tear, you know, sports up, because some people
are going to going to step away from sports when
it does happen, and in whatever other fields there is
that they're going to be allowed to participate in. You know,
it's going to change the whole dynamics of of whether
it be football, baseball, basketball, whatever it is. People are
going to step away from it, and it's going to
(54:22):
change the whole dynamics of the game in general. And
then there's a lot of people not going to even
want to watch or participate in it, you know, but
people are not taking that into consideration. You know. It's
just that if you discriminate, you discriminate. That's the way it's.
Speaker 6 (54:37):
So, yeah, it's a it's a it's one of those things.
It's not going to go away. I mean, there's going
to be significant debate over that issue is as time
goes on. Uh, and it's going to increase. And you know,
I think that, I mean culturally, you know, it's there's
a lot uh. And then the final analysis, you know,
(55:00):
I think that they're you know, the choices of of
of of I mean, because I don't think that it
ever was really at least to a significant degree, because
we had people who you know, that were born males
that you know, wanted to transition into a female or
(55:21):
vice versa.
Speaker 10 (55:22):
I mean, I'm sure you know that happens.
Speaker 6 (55:24):
It's not like it it never happened. But I think
that at this at this juncture now that we are,
I mean, but it's again it's not new. So my
the question is why is it so much help for
to debate at this point? You see what I mean.
(55:44):
So that's where it becomes an issue, you know, that's
why it becomes it's it's you know, sometimes on both sides,
it's almost like a discussion of something new, like you
know what I mean, but understanding that it was always
something that existed, but.
Speaker 10 (56:02):
It was never to the degree that you know, there
is this.
Speaker 6 (56:12):
Mandate that you know, we change our policies or culture
based upon that.
Speaker 10 (56:19):
Why is there a need to change?
Speaker 6 (56:20):
What is it about our culture that's going to change
the way that we I mean, because I mean the reality.
Speaker 10 (56:28):
Of it is is that.
Speaker 6 (56:32):
And some people, some people will related to the struggle
of African Americans, you know what I mean. And I
will tell you that that is very offensive. That's one
percent offensive because one has absolutely nothing to do. None
of that has anything that's even comparable to you know,
(56:54):
and to do that, that's that's problematic.
Speaker 14 (56:59):
But in order to but in order to establish yourself
in the courts, and I guarantee you there's going to
be the case law that they're going to use in
order to present their issue. This thing's has been established
that we established, you know, years ago, in order to
paint that picture that they are being discriminated against. That's
(57:20):
what's going to be the case law.
Speaker 6 (57:21):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean they're trying to you know,
I mean, as far as it being a protected class.
I guess if you have a transition and you are
now female and you want to make a gender claim,
then I guess you could make a gender claim if
you've had this transition. You know, I guess you know,
there's nothing legally but that probably said you couldn't. And
I'm sure I don't know the exact case law on
(57:43):
that issue, to be honest, but I'm quite sure that
that's probably always really been an issue. I don't. I mean,
I think that if someone is fully transitioned and they're
discriminated against, I don't know why it's changed. I don't
know why it's so you know, so vast at this point.
That's that's the question. So political, huh so political political?
(58:08):
And what would be the political advantage? I think, you know,
I mean, I'm saying.
Speaker 14 (58:15):
Why is it coming up now opposed to you know,
so great now? Yeah, you know, we got elections coming up.
Speaker 6 (58:26):
Well, I'm talking about it's just been over the last
few years, even beyond that, just the whole and I
understand that people are bringing it out in order to to,
you know, use to split people up and to make
you know, one side against the other. But I think
that there is this you know, everybody wants to be
(58:48):
a victim. M hm.
Speaker 14 (58:52):
Hmm.
Speaker 6 (58:52):
You see what I mean, But I don't think that
they're you know, but I think you only make yourself
a victim. Yeah, you know what I mean. But I mean,
I love everybody, man, you know what I mean, But
just just be fair to me. Correct consider my rights
and I'll consider everybody else's and we all should should
(59:14):
consider everybody rice and be good to everybody.
Speaker 10 (59:17):
But we need to keep talking about this.
Speaker 6 (59:19):
We'll talk about this in another you know, some other time,
because I think it's a great subject can get somebody on.
But at at any rate, thank you for tuning in
for this edition of Justice Watch. We'll see you next week,
same time, same place, same channel, and until that time,
stay blessed.
Speaker 3 (59:38):
Wow NBC News on CACAA LOMLA does so. I'm sered
by Teamsters Local nineteen thirty two, Protecting the Future of
Working Families Teamsters nineteen thirty two.
Speaker 7 (59:57):
Dot orger.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
M, NBC News Radio. I'm Rob Bartier. President Trump is
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