KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali (Sun, 21 Sep, 2025)

KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali on Sun, 21 Sep, 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 10 (05:08):
One of the things I wanted to begin with when
we talk about the issue regarding the border family crisis
is that.

Speaker 5 (05:20):
I'm sorry, I should keep our families together.

Speaker 10 (05:23):
Absolutely, they need to actually keep our families together. And actually,
what's interesting about the policy is that they are, you know,
trying to address the whole issue of someone entering the
border or coming to the border as an illegal entry,
and what they've done is, I think it's kind of

(05:44):
like one of those technical legal arguments that they're making
in order to justify what they're doing. Basically, the policy
has always been that when someone comes to the border
seeking whatever entry, whether it's asylum or whatever it is,

(06:04):
or withholding or whatever the issues are, typically those individuals
are at some point in time provided some sort of
interview to determine whether their claims are reasonable, and then
you know, they're allowed to enter into the United States
and pursue their claims. However, what they've done is they've
immediately tried to implement some sort of so called zero

(06:29):
tolerance policy where they're treating everyone who's coming to the
border as someone who is committing a criminal act, detaining
these individuals and taking their children away from them regardless
of what the circumstances are, which is a goes completely
away from what we've been doing in the policies before.

(06:50):
So I really don't although you know, we talk about
whether there's a legal analysis of what they're doing, there
is no legal justification for them to actually automatically assumed
that someone comes to the border is actually coming to
commit some sort of criminal offense. In fact, in the past,
the only time that entering the United States had been

(07:12):
considered to be an illegal offense is when someone has
actually been removed from the United States through deportation proceedings
and attempts to come back into the country illegally at
that point. So it seems to me that basically the
motive really isn't too in some way develop some sort

(07:33):
of zero tolerance policy for people who are coming to
the United States as a criminal offense. Obviously there's some
sort of ulterior motive with regards to what they're doing.
So I just kind of want to see if you
can kind of chime in a little bit about your
take on what the administration is doing with regards to
separating these children from their families.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Thank you for this opportunity to speak, and my take,
whether it's whether they have a legal ground or not,
this is more of a moral issue that's affecting those
trying the end of the country because my mother as
an immigrant from South America, and her intentions of coming

(08:18):
to this country was babe to seek health, security and protection,
the same principles that the United States advertise all over
the world, saying that that this is what we provide
to those who come here. So when you have our
folks from Mexico or whatever country they're coming from, they're
coming on the grounds of what America has advertised all

(08:41):
over the world and made itself known. And then when
they reached these gates or these shores, to be rejected
and humiliated, and then on top of that, have their
children separated for them totally counteracts that advertisement of health security,
protection and pursuit of happiness. So right now you are

(09:01):
seeing a small group of people who are in fear
a fair existence in trying to put over what you
call a utilitarian move and to keep they control. So
it's really unfair what's happening to our brothers and sisters

(09:23):
at the borders and those who are being held at
the gates. And it's really this is what's motivating the
protest right because this is more of a moral issue in.

Speaker 10 (09:35):
Anything, I absolutely agree with you. I mean, I think
that what happens is that and this is the irony.
The irony is that those people who have been practitioners
legally as well as you know, in all aspects of
immigrants' rights. This has never happened before. I mean, so

(09:57):
obviously there is no reason for it. There is really
you know, legal justification. And again I think you're right.
I think that it is becomes an issue of morality.
It's a moral issue. I think that one of the
things that we spoke about last week, and I think
that it really is important to what we're talking about today,

(10:17):
is that oftentimes these individuals and again I'm not going
to sit here and bash the United States, but however,
I am going to represent the reality, and the reality
of it is that many of the individuals who are
coming to this country are coming from countries that we
have actually been personally involved in their politics. In other words,

(10:40):
we you know, we were all over Latin America historically
trying to you know, you know, in Latin America's business.
So once you enter into somebody else's business, then I
don't think I think that it's also immoral to create
chaos in some of these places, and then you're going
to back up, and then you're gonna complain about individuals

(11:01):
who are coming to this country when in many cases,
I believe that we've actually been involved or been responsible
for some of the crisis that are happening in some
of these some of these countries as well.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
I totally understand that, and so we haven't seen this
in this form. Separating children from their parents is a
long time consequence that's been happening in urban communities, especial
when it comes to the War on drugs or anything
of that nature. We have had our children separated from

(11:38):
us and what it's known now as the foster system.
You know, we have many children that's been separated from
the parents who lead through the War on drugs and
other fallacies that that's happened to the African American community
right as well as Latino community right.

Speaker 10 (11:54):
And there is no reason obviously for that. I mean,
what you're doing is you create in another crisis. And
you know, obviously you have those who believe that it's
intentional because it's like a systematic issue with certain communities,
especially underrepresented communities and communities uh that are minority communities,

(12:16):
both immigrant and domestic, where it has been this constant
issue of trying to have an impact on those families
that actually may have a you know, have a threat
to maybe for the lack of a better term, status
quo as.

Speaker 5 (12:36):
A as an African American Muslim, we're told, we're told
in the speech of God that you know, we should
not divide kit or separate mother from child, that that
that that paradise is at the footstep of the mother.
So they're right there symbolized the value and family. And

(12:58):
but unfortunately this group or of politicians who are pushing
this uh separation are in fear of diversity in this
country because, as you know, the powers are changing ranks.
You have more women that are starting to win these
elect these these seats you have, you have more people

(13:22):
of color that are starting to get into democratic seats.
And this is really a fear of diversity that America
has so much promoted spatual liberty, the uh uh what
they called it, the part of I forgot what they
called it, but this is the part of humanity. But

(13:46):
it's it's basically what you see is trying to conteract
diversity and coming into power to permit a positive social
welfare for everybody.

Speaker 10 (13:55):
Yeah, that's that's that's true. I mean, especially in light
of what's actually been happening. You brought up a really
good point. And one of the things that I've always stated,
especially in recent times, is that, you know, the immigrant
family is probably one of the biggest threats to our
way of life, or when I say, our way of life,

(14:17):
but the power or the so called status status quos
way of life. From the perspective that demograph, the demographics
of this country, especially the voting demographics of this country,
has changed so significantly over the past what twelve to
sixteen years, that you're beginning to start seeing individuals that

(14:40):
you would normally not be not see get into, you know,
win national elections. You know, it's changing. And I say
that because, you know, I think that the Barack Obama
and his his win nationally, I don't think that people
truly understood the signific of him winning that election. I

(15:02):
was looking at one poll and I can't remember what
poll it is, and I've never really confirmed the numbers. However,
the poll that I saw predicted that eighty percent of
the Hispanic population and seventy something percent of the Asian
population voted for Barack Obama, and that had a significant

(15:25):
impact on him becoming president of the United States. I
don't believe that. I don't believe it is any accident
that Donald Trump's platform basically was based primarily on the
fact that he was going to take a strong stance
on immigration. And when you talk about the whole issue

(15:48):
of we're going to take our country back, I believe
that that people truly didn't understand what he meant as
far as the immigration aspects. I mean, you can go
to places in the South, and I was born and
raised in the South where you would never see an
immigrant when I grew up until I was probably eighteen

(16:09):
years old and went into the military, there was really
no immigrant community. However, I went home probably about five
or six years ago, that's completely changed all across this country.
You're starting to see a very large immigrant population across
the country, and obviously their children are becoming citizens of

(16:32):
the country once they're born in this country. So are
you beginning to start You know, it's so symbolic of
the fact that you're going to imprison their parents and
you're going to indoctrinate their children. I mean, is that
really what we're seeing going on? I mean, and I
know that's a very harsh way of putting it, but
sometimes you know, you know, you get that idea.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
I mean, I don't feel that the immigrant popul nation
is a threat to our existence. I don't feel that,
uh that this this is this increase of people of
color coming into position onto power, it's a threat because
down here in the grassroot community we work and live
together anyway. So and then what we've seen here in

(17:19):
America is the is is a natural birth of the
land that who it naturally belongs to. Of course, of
course the people who the people who are naturally born,
who the land naturally belongs to, they're gonna flourish. Right,
That's just that's just cosmic law. So to say that, uh,

(17:41):
that immigrants hold a threat, now, we just got to
get to work and not let the system gentrify us
and find ways to abridge our cultures to one another
so we could sustain our lives, beihoods. Because uh, whether
you know or Africans coming from across the waters or

(18:04):
even South Asian, we all understand under one principle that
God created creation and the best of us are here
to get to know one another. And those who choose
not to embrace diversity, and they gonna live within their
own bubble, within their own fears because they're still used
to being in control. And you know, let them be

(18:25):
like that, because at the end of the day, whatever
the creator wants is gonna happen.

Speaker 10 (18:31):
Absolutely, absolutely so, and I agree, I don't believe that
it's it's a it's it's truly a a threat to
most of us. I mean most of us who are basically,
you know, more concerned about the rights of human beings period.

(18:51):
I think that those who are and sometimes it is
a matter of perception, and I think that huh.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
You know, honestly, you know, it becomes a threat when
you have a people who who have lost their sense
for survival and it's stuck in the world of apathy
and self helplessness. So when when you have a group
of people who are just that's been entitled for so
many years and it's just been having privileged has been
their way. They got used to things. But when globalization hit,

(19:23):
they now opened the they now open the doors to uh,
to smaller countries with bigger gdds than that the United
States they're business with and they're opening the doors to
come over here. So right now it's all about self determination.
Get yours, establish it, established weight with justice, and fall

(19:44):
not shorten the balance because right now we've seen a
definitely changing world cultures, especially with the new technologies that
that's coming in. If not, they're just trying to use
the integration as a right two disguise what's really about
to happen as far as uh, less jobs for less

(20:08):
jobs beginning to be more childs for AI right.

Speaker 11 (20:13):
You know, one of the things that I'm still trying
to I guess trying to figure out whether or not
you know, oh this is blod Yes. What I'm trying
to figure out is is, you know, what was the
whole purpose behind you know, separating that the child, you know,
from from the parent in terms of whether it was

(20:36):
they are deterrent for other people who actually come along
and try to do the same thing, or I mean,
you know, what was the ulterior motive behind separating That's
what I just can't understand.

Speaker 10 (20:47):
Yeah, well, I mean obviously there's an ulterior motive. I
mean I think that what this is what they're saying.
I mean, there's actually two sections on the under the
US Code about people entering the United States. One are
in the visuals who enter the United States who have
never been deported before. The other code is relevant to

(21:08):
people who have been deported before and they're trying to
re enter. So depending on how many times you've tried
to re enter in your criminal history, then typically they
make a determination it's called proscratorial discretion, where they basically
make a determination whether you should be whether you should
be prosecuted criminally, or whether you should be put into
the administrative proceedings. The reality of it is is that

(21:32):
that that in the history of this country, the prosecut
the discretion has always been that, you know, unless you're
typically unless you've illegally been deported, unless you've been deported
and entered illegally in the past, typically there is no
effort to try to, you know, try to criminally prosecute someone,

(21:56):
you see what I mean. And so what happens is
is that basically what happened with proscratorial discretion is you know,
what we're talking about with UMAR is basically, although it
really isn't a legal analysis, the prosecutors have not been
doing it because of humanitarian reasons, because these individuals are
coming here trying to seek you know, whether it's asylum

(22:20):
or whatever they're trying to seek, which is a legal
way of trying to enter the country at the borders.
That's nothing new when people come to the borders. As
a matter of fact, that's how most of all of
our ancestors came into this country, with the exception of
those who came obviously involuntary during slavery, but from that
point on, most people who come to this country outside

(22:41):
of involuntary servitude came with the purpose of trying to
seek a better life, and so the motive is speculative. However,
it's clear that basically it's inhumane because unless especially when
you're talking about individuals coming into the country, the generally
the concern has always been the safety of the community.

(23:05):
So you know, obviously, those who have illegally re entered
typically have some sort of criminal back, criminal background that
would you know, would would would cause a prosecutor to prosecute. However,
here these individuals have no criminal history. They're just you know,
a woman coming across the country with her child. You know,
it's like I'm gonna snatch her up and I'm gonna

(23:26):
put her in jail and prosecute her criminally and then
take her child and put her somewhere, put the child somewhere.
You know, it's just it's just inhumane. I don't know
what the motive could be, because, to be quite honest
with you, my mind can't go that way diabolically. So
I really don't know what really is going on, to
be quite honest with you, because there is no real

(23:48):
legal basis for it, because they've never done it before.
So today you're gonna decide that you're gonna implement a
policy that's going to prosecute every individual who is try
trying to come into this country and separate them from
their children. I have no idea what they're thinking about.
To be honest with.

Speaker 5 (24:07):
You, that was a good question that you ask, what
is the real reason behind it? And I always look
at I always look for the dancing there. You know,
when you have a lot of activity in front, there's
something in the back that moving in the background that
you don't notice. But I'm really looking for that dancing
bear to dancing in the background. Because what they're using

(24:29):
is a distorted sense of the truth. They're trying to
give you what they feel is truth, but it's mainly
distorted to support their agenda for whoever's agenda to possibly
I don't know, maybe if this is if it's correct
to build this so called wall, right, you know what

(24:50):
I'm saying, to get funds for this foss or by
telling a distorted sense of the truth, use a small
use a small percentage of true and blow it up
to be real big to to to create more cyclogenetic
fear into the people. Then they then then they will
get the moral support to get funds for this ball,

(25:13):
just like when they said that that Muslims are terroris
when in fact Muslims costs do not cost any violence
more than as you see right now you have the
white supremas at the top of the list, and uh,
this is what's really uh, this is what's perpetuating violence

(25:35):
in America. So they created this label called the ie
black idea extremes, which is a false label. So they
use the small percentage of the stort the truth to
get more support. But that's what they're trying to do
with this separating their kids, which is like you said, diabolical.

Speaker 10 (25:52):
And and and what you said, I mean one of
the things, and I'll ask you the same thing, doctor,
But one of the things that you you, I think
you just hit the nail right on the head is
you know they're using it as a way of getting
what they want. I mean, and you are right. I mean,
there's no question about it, because now he's using that
inhumane act to try to see if they can get

(26:15):
someone to bend and possibly get more money to build
this so called so called wall. And what's interesting is this,
This is what I think, at least in my mind,
I believe that they've created this false narrative. And I
think you did a great job of describing the fact
that there is no reason for anybody to feel threatened

(26:36):
or anybody to feel fearful. However, they've created this narrative
in order to I mean fearful. Fear is the greatest
way of motivating and getting the things that you want,
and they've created this fear. And in order to appeal
to his base, he does certain things in order to
appeal to the base, that being the fact that these

(26:58):
people do feel fearful and threatened by by the immigrant population.
It's it's false, and it's it's really ignorant. But there
are people who really feel that way, And you're right
that he's using that fear in order to get the
things that he that he wants.

Speaker 5 (27:19):
Basic business tactics, the way the way.

Speaker 10 (27:22):
You do business.

Speaker 5 (27:23):
So like this false as you see, this false narrative
is motivating a woman to call the police and people
who's barbecuing at the park, this false narrative, it is
motivating probably some good citizens, but they so scared that
they call him trying to harass gardeners in their mind
and stop stop people from in their neighborhood. So once

(27:47):
we start educating the people about what's the real social
awareness in this country, because that false narrative is a
form of negative propaganda, can be labeled as some type
of education, but we have to start owning the real education,
the real narrative, so we can inspire these same people

(28:09):
to do the right thing when he comes, when he
came him, cross the situations and stop calling the police
and feeling a petty sense of empowerment.

Speaker 10 (28:16):
Right, that's right.

Speaker 7 (28:20):
So I'm Likeking brother Lama, how you doing. You guys
are are so much on point on so many things.
Let me just try to tear down and backtrack a
little bit First of all, I think it's much more
simplistic than we want to realize. There's self interests that
are on board here, and I think it was articulated

(28:42):
extremely well by both of you, by all three of you.
But let's look at what is actually going on. Trump
wants to make sure that he maintains a voting block
which is going to keep him and this is the
key word in the position of power. This whole thing
is predicated around power. If you tear down the dynamics.
First of all, understanding that worldwide we have a massive

(29:05):
immigrant exodus out of countries that have been devastated because
of war, they have been devastated because of the inability
of economic regeneration, etc. So here in America, you know,
when you talk about letting somebody in a country, it's
because they're usually an asset to that country. You don't

(29:25):
let them in if you think their liability. That's why
they go through a screening process at.

Speaker 10 (29:30):
The border, etc.

Speaker 7 (29:31):
It has obviously been proven that the immigrant population, not
just the Latino immigrant population, but every immigrant population has
served this country for the constructive betterment. So the rationale
to keep these people out because their liability first of all,
doesn't hold water. Secondly, if they were truly trying to

(29:52):
make sure the immigrants did not infuse themselves in this country,
why would they not go to the cinio sustainers who
allow the immigrant population to flourish and stabilize themselves. Here
we're talking about the major corporations, the major private sources

(30:13):
that have used the immigrant population for decades in this
country to do the work of the country. So many
corporations and so many cities have built their whole nexus,
their financial nexus on the immigrant population. If you look
up up north all through the regions, the wine regions.

Speaker 10 (30:31):
Tularry, etc.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
Which are the vegetable regions, California is one of the
highest income of California is this agriculture, and that is
dominated by the immigrant population. So when you stop and
look at and start analyzing things from a scientific program,
you see that that is not the case. Now when
you talk about the separation of the families, what's happening here?
And it was articulated again so well, we're talking about

(30:55):
a fear narrative. If I can instill the fear in
you that your child will be taken if you cross
that border, you're going to stay. But then the failed
understanding is this. Look, I've been to the prisons of
l Salvador, Honduras, etc. I know the dynamics that are
going on in those countries and why people are running away.
And when you think about it, in that whole Mexico,

(31:17):
Hondura's El Salvador in region, that whole process was started
here in America because of the deportation that Ronald Reagan
originally implemented. Then they put in place monosseutral, the heavy
hand process. They sent the deportees back to El Salvador,
they took the gang culture back there with them, set

(31:38):
up house in El Salvador because it was unchecked. The
American government did not help El Salvador when that happened,
and then they started coming back over here, and then
they were deported one more time back to El Salvador.
And then that's where we have the killing fields. So
we have to historically look at the dynamics of what
is actually going on here. And I think that some
of all this up when we look at the immigrants

(32:00):
coming over there. You know, we're talking about shared experiences.
We're talking about individuals that have been traumatized, that have
been put under suppression and they're coming over here still
under an oppressive, suppressive regime. You know, at the end
of the day, if you want real solutions to the perspective,
you don't drive the people underground that can pinpoint who

(32:23):
the real adversaries are. You want some type of community
engagement with them that would come through some form of
community policing, etc. So when you don't have that, your
whole narrative of what you're saying, that this whole context
is standing on is totally erroneous. It's totally misguided. And
anybody looking with any clear eyes can see that.

Speaker 12 (32:46):
I've been behind you, back at you, sir, Yeah, and
you know, looking at looking at looking at what you
were just saying not too long ago, brother Wumar, was
the fact where you're saying, you you know, you got
to look at the bigger picture.

Speaker 11 (33:02):
You gotta look at what's going on in the background.
And I think they did create a lot of laws
and a lot of a lot of things, you know
where they came up.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
Whether you know.

Speaker 11 (33:11):
They created laws when they said Okay, we're gonna have
all these drugs coming over here, yes, or we're going
to have you know, there's ms thirteen coming over here.
You know, we're going to have the terrorists coming over here.
So it was always something that they had to do
in order to bring about this or create that fear,
you know, amongst the society, in order for them to
pass these different bills. They did it with the three strikes,

(33:33):
you know. So it's it's always there's always something, like
I said, there are always a terrior motive behind, you know,
something going along, you know.

Speaker 10 (33:40):
So yeah, yeah, and I know that we recently had
the the Supreme Court decision of five Ford decision on
the President Trump's travel band and basically the the ruling
of course was well, the holding basically said that the
that the that the ban did not exceed the President's

(34:05):
authority under the under the Immigration and Nationality Act and
uh and does not violate the establishment cause, which means
that the government is supposed is not supposed to be
engaged in in religious uh uh proclamation or religious support
or prohibition uh. And so basically what happened is that

(34:28):
basically there was a the there was an organization out
of Hawaii, the Muslim Association of Hawaii, that basically filed
a an action in in federal court in the U. S.
District Court, and it made it went to the Ninth
Circuit and made its way up into the the U. S.
Supreme Court. And the problem in what's really dangerous about

(34:53):
the decision that was really made is that although they
call it the Muslim travel ban, the analysis of the
court does not necessarily, you know, really that's not really
what it's supposed to be. In other words, they did
not prohibit it because they said based upon the fact
that it didn't violate the establishment Clause and that basically

(35:15):
that it was, it didn't exceed the President's authority under
Immigration and Nationality Act. And regardless and clearly it was
almost strictly across party lines. With the exception I think
that maybe just if Justice Kennedy's decision in the case,
and unfortunately I believe he's getting ready to retire announced
his retirement. But I mean, again, it's one of those things.

(35:38):
It's kind of like a pseudo non Muslim ban. However,
I think in all reality, when you're talking about every
country that is included in this proclamation that and I
think it was Presidential Proclamation ninety four sixty five about

(35:58):
the vetting process, every one of those countries clearly is
a Muslim country, So you know, I think it's kind
of like a way of hiding what really what's going
on here. And I think it kind of goes part
and partial with what we're talking about what's going on
at the border.

Speaker 5 (36:15):
And I'm sorry, it's all fear. Yeah, it's when Americans.
Because when Americans find out that they cannot travel to
their favorites like vacation spots, they're gonna be right.

Speaker 11 (36:29):
And I think I think along the lines it is
probably gonna end up backfiring because you know, you know,
it's just typical for other countries just to jump on
bandwagon and say it's just typical for other countries to
be you know, jump on bandwagon and say, well, okay,
since you're not going to allow this to happen to
come into your country, so we're not gonna allow this
to happen. So eventually, I think it's going to backfire.

Speaker 10 (36:50):
We used spot on.

Speaker 7 (36:51):
Look, our academic wealth are our strategic expertise doesn't come
from our own country. We are so far behind in
the educational standards worldwide. What you're going to have is
people that have been a asset building up the infrastructure of

(37:12):
this country are going to detour and go elsewhere. Most
of them are coming to this country because of the
economic means anyway, and so many of them. I don't
have the exact percentage, but once they get the education
from here, they turn right back and go to their countries.
And I think you're going to see much more of that.
And lastly on that, you know, this whole travel ban
and water thing, Come on, this is not anything new.

Speaker 10 (37:35):
They did it with.

Speaker 7 (37:35):
The Japanese and the aternament camps. They did it with
the Indians with the promised Christian schools that really change
their culture. They've been doing this for the history of
this country. And lastly, with us as the people, they
totally destroyed us through the crossing. So I think we
need to look at history and really decide what type

(37:56):
of action steps are we going to take. If we're
looking for the federal Goul government to change their dynamic
or to change their scope of their their heart, I
think we're looking at an illusion. I think people of color,
oppressed people that have worldwide banded together on other issues
are going to have to band together on this issue too.

Speaker 10 (38:16):
I also think I'm sorry, bro, Yeah, what I was
going to say. Is also what's interesting about the whole
issue about the the travel band is, you know, obviously
they're saying that, you know, obviously they have to come
with some sort of neutral basis for implementing the travel
travel band. And one of the arguments they were making
as far as what the rational basis for it is

(38:39):
that the court even came to the conclusion that the
removal of three Muslim majority countries being Iraq, Sudan and
Chad from the from the list actually helped suggest that
it was for a you know, a religious neutral basis.
It wasn't based upon religion. It was really just neutral basis,

(39:00):
which I thought was really interesting. But but really what
it what boils down to the whole idea is that
there is no basis for them to include any of
these countries on the list to begin with, because I mean,
and it's all political because obviously you look at the

(39:21):
names Iran, live your North Korea, Somaya, Syria, and Yeomen, right,
and then you're going to get rid of take Sudan,
Chad and Iraq off the list. So I mean, when
you talk about the issue of safety, and this is
what kind of what you know and and It's sad, brother,
It's really sad. Ignorance is a really sad thing. And

(39:42):
the reason why I say that is because, you know,
if someone is has the and I remember I was
on a on a on a train not too long
ago coming back from the someone in Los Angeles and
I was talking to someone and the whole idea, and
there was just you know, just listening to this individual talk.

(40:06):
They did not understand. It's almost like they do not
understand first of all, that Islam is a religion, that
Muslims are people who worship certain things all over the country,
whether you're talking about the United States and everywhere else.
And this whole idea that they basically want to destroy America.

(40:26):
And I've even heard people almost even go say it's
part of our doctrine to destroy America or Muslims doctrine
destroyed America. I mean, to have someone that believes those
sort of things is it's almost like, how can you
It's unexplainable. But the reality of it is is that

(40:48):
I'm just going to put that out there. If a
billion people wanted to destroy you, a billion people would
try to destroy you. You see what I'm saying. It's
just like, you know, I told the guy, and I
shouldn't even say this on the radio, but I'm gonna
say it. I told the guy that, look, if I
really wanted it's like if I said I wanted to

(41:08):
slap you right now, right, I would just slap you, right,
you see what I'm saying. I mean, And it's kind
of like, there's you know, it doesn't even make any sense.
I mean, You've got a billion people in the world
who the majority aren't doing anything obviously but being good citizens,
and they have convinced these individuals that you've got this
entire religion that wants to undermine the American way of life.

(41:32):
And it absolutely makes no sense, you see what I mean.
That's what And when you look at the issue of
safety and the fact that they're using a vetting process
as an issue of safety, is that you know, there's
Muslims in Europe, there's Muslims in Asia, There's Muslims all
over the world, you know what I mean. So, I mean,

(41:53):
it's just beyond me. How like you said, brother Umar,
it's kind of like, you know, more or less kind
of a political ploy than it is a legitimate way
of trying.

Speaker 5 (42:06):
To I want to challenge, uh, the men, African American men,
after American leaders, Christians, everybody two to become more more more,
to become better moral leaders and teaching people. Uh. There's

(42:29):
a lack of education, as what Bush has said, there's
a lack of education that's plagued the United States.

Speaker 7 (42:35):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
And this lack of education has allowed for a false
narrative of of its lime to take over. This lack
of education has forced the false narratives of the native
of the Native America. This lack of education has has
forced the plague of lives to be spread about Latinos.
So it's time that you know that that that the

(42:56):
men join our sisters on these front line. And I
know and and and most men may take offense to
this because the ones, the ones who are already on
the front line, they holding it down. I can't lie
you know what I'm saying. But now we need the
average But now we need the average person to to
get with that community organizing. Who comes to you and

(43:18):
act cannot do a one to one win. You as
a board member for l A Voice and as a
director for the I L M Foundation, Community organizing is
how we build power. This is how we build voices,
and unfortunately, if we don't take this opportunity to step up,

(43:38):
we're going to be gentrified out the process. And what
I mean by gentrified out the process, all this progress
that's going on is going on without us, and we're
going and I refuse, and I refuse to at least
because I've been told to say myself and my family
from the healthpart, So I refuse to allow ourselves to

(43:59):
be gentrified. So that's why I'm involved with teaching community accountability.
It's easy to hold the other side and tell them, hey,
y'all gotta come help us. But now I want to
get back into that mode where we did when we
get into self determination, and we get back into that
mode of community accountability. But like last year, we taught

(44:24):
maybe I was, I taught, maybe facilitated rather maybe ten
classes over at stop the violence increased the these foundation
on community accountability. And then we end up and that
led to an action to have a day's a dollarg
discussion with LAPD. And and here we have community members

(44:47):
from our community who who were engaged in interactive exercises
to educate them on how to engage civic officers. You know,
because when we we walked into this situation, we don't
want them to get in there and don't want us
to get in there invent. It's not a time for bidding.
This is the time to rhetorically state your narrative. So LAPD

(45:12):
sensus captain's chief and commanders and a police commissioner to
discuss the future of community police and in South Los Angeles.
So and this goes across the board we go. So
so to teach community accountability is to educate our community
not to be gentrified in this in this process of
progress that is going on, especially in Compton, Los Angeles,

(45:34):
Washington Long Beach. So you know, I'm just I'm just
worried about Southern California. I can't hold up the world.
But I would like other men who has who has
expertise and certain skills and interests to join us, to
join these community organizers. And this established a voice.

Speaker 10 (45:55):
Yeah, absolutely, you know.

Speaker 11 (45:58):
You know, one of the things also I think that
we must do is that we have to let people
know that they have to stop becoming so gullible and
when it comes to when it comes to the media,
when it comes to the news. You know, I think
that you know, we talked about it not too long

(46:20):
ago with cinema and how it has a negative effect upon,
you know, public opinion, and how it has a tendency
to sway public opendon. And I think one of the
things that we do, we get so caught up with
the media and the news that we become so gullible
that we accept anything that is dished out. And I
think that's where the fear comes in if we want

(46:41):
to put it out that Okay, we have tears coming
in the country, and so we want to we want
to create this law to ban people coming in from
Muslim countries. Okay, so let's say this. Let's say the
great majority of the school shootings is white males between
this age and that age. So we're not gonna allow
no males to go to school, you know, I mean,

(47:02):
that's what that's you know, when you look at it,
that's what it looks ridiculous when you look at it
like that. I mean, so one of the things that
we have to do is we have to stop becoming
so gullible. We got to stop, you know, letting this
media persuade us to think a certain way.

Speaker 7 (47:16):
You know.

Speaker 10 (47:16):
Yeah, I mean, I know that one of the things
that I want to talk about, and I'm glad that
you brought up brought up the issue of action, is
that we're going to be on the twenty eighth of July.
We're actually having this national conference in Los Angeles, by
the way, whether and I hope that you can actually
come out. It's actually called Justice and Jury Reform Conference.

(47:38):
And one of the things that I wanted to start
and where we've been talking about a movement about jury
reform across the country. Where we're trying to get and
I'm of the opinion that if we begin to want
to start dealing with the issues affecting our community, especially
those with regards to law enforcement, is that one of

(47:58):
the things that's happening, and I've seen myself as a
as an attorney and those who have been involved in
the criminal justice system, is that basically it's juries who
make the decision, and far too often the problem with
the juries is that the juries are made up of
individuals that do not look like the defendant exactly. I mean,

(48:20):
I've been in trials and I've said this before, I've
been in trials and Compton and they're not be no
black people on the jury. I've been in trials and.

Speaker 5 (48:30):
Yeah, they kicked me off the jury.

Speaker 10 (48:33):
Yeah, because and this is the kind of the question,
and even in Englewood that that's happened. What they do
is they you know, there's ways their mechanism in order
to challenge the people on the jury. But what they
do is they ask the magic question. They asked a
question like, has anybody ever had a negative experience with
the police department? And do you know anybody that had

(48:53):
a negative experience with the police department. Obviously, different communities
are going to answer that question a different way. So
once you raise your hand and you say I've had
negative experience with police officers, then they end up kicking
the black people off the jury. And you challenge them,
they're going to say, well, it was race neutral because
they had negative experience with police officers. And you know,

(49:17):
we have to get beyond it. I'm telling you we're
not going to be even police officers who are being
charge with killing people in our communities are not being
having jurors from the communities that they work in on
the jury pool. And we're curious as to why they
end up with not guilty verdicts. We're crying we're outraised.

(49:39):
But until we are, we should be represented on all
these jury pools. Whether it's people in our communities or
whether it's police officers who are policing in our communities,
we have to be involved in that. And as I said,
I mean, trust me, black people will prosecute a black
man who create chaos in their community. But we do

(50:00):
need to make sure that we have individuals that are
going to look at the evidence and look at it
in a manner that is going to be fair and impartial.
And if we don't get there, if we don't start
putting African Americans and people across section of the community
on these jury pools, we're going to have a problem.
Nothing will ever change. You can change laws however you

(50:21):
want to, but the jury is the fact finder. And
when we get on these juris, umar you know, a
lot of us don't even want to be on the jury.
We don't understand. And I'm begging this. You have some
young man whose life is on the line, guilty or innocent,
and most of the time, no matter how innocent you are,
you know, the people on the jury have to be

(50:41):
able to presume you to be an innocent man and
when you don't look sometimes when you don't look like them,
they don't give you that fair and shade.

Speaker 5 (50:48):
And that is very true. I just left sat California
over at Stanford and Palato University for the dec the
design and I met so many people that are fincial
health US or the urban community. African Americans work on

(51:10):
our own problems, but they face the resistance from our
community because the apathy as I mentioned earlier, and the
self helplessness that we're stuck in is blinding us from
joining the process. Because it's a lot of resources out there.
But when we got to start rebuilding trust, so when

(51:30):
this white person walk up to us or this Asian
person opposed to hey, I got this resource that's going
to help you, it's gonna help us make the situation better.
You know, because of the precious state of the systems
been on our backs for so long, we don't trust
anything that comes our way. And going back to the

(51:50):
to the education piece, Yes, you're gonna have gullible people
as long as we're as long as we're not educating.
For for those who have the knowledge of the education,
it's a responsibility for us not preach, but teach people

(52:11):
or teach those who who are willing to learn what
we know what we know, so when this help comes to people,
you can recognize it. You can recognize it because community
accountability is so important because we cause so much of
our own problems that you know, it's hard to tell somebody,

(52:31):
you know, stop shooting when we're shooting ourselves. So we
got so we got to begin to start loving ourselves
so our kids won't be the one on the news
or so our kids to basically get off the news
and you know, and and and start joining the system
in a more positive manner. Because I really believe wherever

(52:53):
there is poverty at you're gonna have people stepping up
to uh to aid. But if you don't know what
a looks like, you're going to repute it because it's
coming in a form of something that you distrust.

Speaker 10 (53:07):
Right, That's true. That's true. That's so true. I mean
we do that, we do need more teachers in the
community and to impart the proper knowledge to you know,
because I mean, basically, you know, reality is so subjective
and sometimes when you come into the communities and you're
trying to give them some sort of positive uh and

(53:29):
actually what we always say real talk. You know, their
reality is so different and not necessarily the reality is
not necessarily real reality, if that makes any sense. You know,
it's kind of like it's skewed by their circumstances. Yes,
And when you're going into the community, especially when you
take you know, mentoring young men and trying to you know,

(53:51):
speaking with these young men and seeing, you know, what
their possibilities are. For some people, man, I mean, they
don't even think certain things are possible. And you're right,
I mean when you come to them with you know,
whether it's you know, uh, people in our community, outside
our community, they don't know how to respond to it
because they're not being exposed to many different things, you know.

(54:12):
So that's that's important, and I appreciate you bringing that
to our attention because that is there is a difference
between preaching and teaching, bro sir.

Speaker 5 (54:22):
It's like a lot of you, uh, like Zulu and
share y'all, y'all been standing mentors in my life and
I can really watch you from afar so but I
can only recognize that because of some of the principles
that I've had, I have embraced that you have taught yes,
you know what I'm saying, so you know, but at

(54:44):
the same time, we need more men out here, dude, Yes,
more more men out here. And and and I'm gonna
make this plea. I don't know if it's a right
or wrong. Please why let your husband out the house.
Please let that man out the house to come out
here and do this work because we need them. We

(55:05):
need them, you know, we need them. And we don't
need them to stay out all night, but we just
need them to show up for these actions so you
can have this thing called president. When they say president,
and when they see this thing called presence, they know
that's that presence is their constituency. Who are eligible voters
you know what I'm saying, and that they have and
that and that their vote is passed to a narrative,

(55:27):
which is our voice. You know, it's very important that
we start teaching more and more men starting company these
sisters two on the front line because we got to
stand around to protect them.

Speaker 10 (55:40):
Well, I appreciate that, brother man. I so much appreciate
you coming with us today, man and join this man
and licenss with that knowledge. Thank you and uh and
so and hopefully we can have you back again. Uh
just speak with us again. Thank you very much, and
for everybody else listening in, Uh, We'll see you next week,
same time, say channel until next week.

Speaker 13 (56:02):
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Speaker 15 (56:27):
Org, NBC News Radio. I'm Rob Martyr. Vice President JD.
Van says Charlie Kirk used debate to bring the light
of truth to dark places. Speaking at Kirk's memorial in Arizona,
Vance said Kirk always made it clear that family and

(56:47):
faith are more important than status and material things, saying
he was the best of us.

Speaker 7 (56:52):
Charlie exemplified kindness, courage, and a commitment to open debate.

Speaker 15 (56:58):
Donald Trump Juniors as he was devastated when Charlie Kirk
died and felt like Kirk was a brother to.

Speaker 8 (57:04):
Him, and we're here today to celebrate the way he
lived his life.

Speaker 15 (57:10):
The president's son said Kirk was a true family man
that we should all strive to be the memorial, held
at State Farms Stadium in Glendale, Arizona, reached its maximum
capacity of seventy three thousand people just hours after the
doors opened at eight a m. For Kirk's memorial. According
to reports, thousands more were directed to the adjacent Desert
Diamond Arena, where the NHL's Phoenix Coyotes play. Senate Minority

(57:34):
leader Chuck Schumer says Republicans will be to blame for
any government shutdown. Appearing on CNN's State of the Union,
Schumer said his colleagues on the other side of the
aisle are not working to fix the issues. His comments
come after the Senate voted down a stop gap funding
measure to avoid a government shutdown at the end of
the month. The Sacramento man accused of shooting at a
TV station is back in custody. The FBI says Annibal

(57:57):
Hernandez Santana was arrested after he posted bail. He's now
in custody for violating a federal statute, which includes interference
to radio communications of stations that are licensed by the government.
He will be back in court next week for firing
multiple shots at the ABC ten building on Friday afternoon.
Tropical Storm Gabrielle is expected to become the second hurricane

(58:18):
of the Atlantic season today. Forecasters say the storm is
now packing top wins of sixty five miles per hour
about four hundred and ninety miles southeast of Bermuda. Rob Bartier,
NBC News Radio.

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