KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali (Sun, 2 Nov, 2025)

KCAA: Justice Watch with Attorney Zulu Ali on Sun, 2 Nov, 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Department of Social Services officials said SNAP funds continued through
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They encouraged Californians to still apply for the benefits. Nearly
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(00:20):
Los Angeles counties receive CalFresh benefits. That includes more than
four hundred and forty thousand low income residents in San
Bernardino County. In Riverside County, more than three hundred and
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Governor Newsom said he will fast track eighty million dollars
in state support and deploy the California National Guard to

(00:44):
assist food banks. Whether in the Inland Empire will start
to see a cool down with highs in the low
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(01:04):
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Speaker 2 (04:52):
K c A A.

Speaker 8 (05:02):
Thank you for tuning in to Justice Watch Radio with
Attorneys Zulu Ali I Am, Michael Bilio Clark, along with
the Justice Watch Crew Rosa Nuna as well as doctor
Kill Bashir.

Speaker 5 (05:15):
This week, like every other week, we will.

Speaker 8 (05:17):
Be discussing critical topics that confront our community. We were
liked also continue on where we left off from the
previous weeks on inner city violence as well as kind
of broaden our topic to you know, just violence in
general across the you know, across the country that we
have been seeing a somewhat of growing epidemic of this

(05:39):
violence going on. And one of the things that, like
I said, we want to continue on is some of
the inner city violence that we continue to see, and
we want to focus on. The book by doctor k
kil Bashir, you know, Peace in the Hood Working with
Gang Members to End Violence.

Speaker 5 (05:58):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (05:59):
And it is a it's a very a very h
a very good reading for anyone who wants to deal
with some of the violence that we're confronted with in
our inner city communities as well as abroad, because I
think it's universal and in terms of how to deal
with violence. While going through the book, you know, I
kind of reflect back on, you know, the early years

(06:21):
of gang violence as especially back coming up in the eighties.
You know, there was a there was a high violent rate.
There was you know, the murder rate was you know,
just off the chain back in the eighties, and you know,
I'm looking at I'm looking at it then and then
looking at it now. And you know, one of the
questions that I wanted to oppose to you coming on
into this was whether or not there's been any type

(06:44):
of change in terms of gang violence from.

Speaker 5 (06:46):
The eighties on here as well as you.

Speaker 8 (06:49):
Know, I was reading one of the chapters in the book,
they talked about as far as individuals being able to
uh get out of the gangs once they're into the gang.
And I don't know whether or not there's a difference
in terms of culture in terms of the Hispanic gangs

(07:10):
and the Black gangs, whether it's easier for someone to
get out of the gangs, you know, culturally, you know,
if you can understand what I mean by that. But
those are the things that I wanted to raise, you know,
while reading the book, I wanted to see whether or
not there has been a change in the violence from
the eighties up into now. As well as individuals that

(07:30):
might be listening and that might want to get out
of the gang, Is there a way to get out?

Speaker 5 (07:35):
You know?

Speaker 9 (07:36):
Well, good questions, bellew in reference to gangs in general.
I really want to be clear the book was not
written to deal with just gangs, When the book was written,
we had a befloor of gang activity and people not
knowing what to do. We had researchers and academicians writing thesis, etc.

(07:58):
But no subject matter ext on the ground. So the
book was written to deal first and foremo with the
onslaught of gang violence, but then to broaden itself into
the larger component of comprehensive community violence. And this is
what we really wanted to concentrate on while dealing with
the gang violence which so affects most marginalized communities.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
As I said last week.

Speaker 9 (08:22):
The root cause of gang violence is not individuals wanting
to be in gangs. They're usually situations and circumstances that
perpetuate stepping into that pacific lifestyle. So clearly, and we
can talk about how that dynamic came into fruition. My
goal was to create comprehensive road maps and strategies to

(08:44):
deal with all components of violence, person of person violence,
societal violence, gang violence, municipal police violence, etc.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
Only dealing with gang violence, and you heard.

Speaker 9 (08:55):
Me say this a thousand times, is just putting a
band aid on one component. But in terms of the
gang violence, answer your secondary question, yes, there has been
a major shift in gang violence from the eighties to now. Communities, municipalities,
excuse me, have taken extreme measures to try to redirect.

(09:17):
I won't say quell, I would say redirect. One of
the most powerful tools that is being utilized across the
nation is gentrification. And what gentrification is actually doing is
going into marginalized communities and not coming in with the
concept of the original concept of what gentrification was. Originally,
the concept was to restore and rebuild these communities, bring

(09:39):
additional resources to bring them up to a level of functionality.

Speaker 5 (09:43):
But it's not doing that.

Speaker 9 (09:45):
What this gentrification is doing is actually displacing those residents
that have normally been there, then creating a higher wage,
a livable wage.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
In that given area where.

Speaker 9 (09:56):
People are going to have to have a higher livable
wage because they raise up the property values, they raise
up just the quality are the cost of living in
the area, and then those people are not able to
move back. What that does to the gang member is
moves him or hurt out of that area. But what
the consequence is his displaces them to another area, and
time and time again, areas that have not had gang

(10:17):
violence end up having gang violence because of this bread.
Then the gang members themselves, they have gotten more professional.

Speaker 5 (10:24):
They're not on the ground doing what.

Speaker 9 (10:26):
They used to do. This is what people don't understand.
People that implore violence, they will mature, they will flex,
they will change based on the nature of how violence
is being dealt with. So they become far more professional.
They've got low level of affiliation with cartels. They're much
more into white collar engagement, etc.

Speaker 5 (10:46):
This is very important to understand.

Speaker 9 (10:48):
Your last question posed was is there a difference between
black and Latino gangs. Yes, there is a big difference,
especially in California. Latino gangs basically control the prison system
in the in California, so the Latino gangs have more
of affiliation with the artels are either the Sernannas. The

(11:09):
breaking line is Bakerfield, so there's much more of a
combined unification with the Latino gangs. They hold more to
the essence of the old cast system, whereas the black gangs,
the PI Pacific Islander Gangs and other gangs, they're more
loosely linted now because they're.

Speaker 5 (11:27):
Much more economically driven.

Speaker 9 (11:29):
They are not unified like they once were, and they're
basically spattered all over the place. But the last component
blown is very important is that the cartels have utilized
a lot of the basic street gangs for their dirt work.
They don't bring them into the actual family, but they'll
use them for their dirt work. And the gangs, because

(11:51):
of the ability to transport themselves through the whole country,
have moved into regions and areas outside of what the
comfort zone of Los Angeles used to be. You'll find
them now in Seattle, You'll find them in You'll find
them in uh Montgomery County heavy in That's thirteen.

Speaker 5 (12:09):
You'll find them in Louisiana. I can go on.

Speaker 9 (12:12):
Places that never saw games before are starting to see
the excuse me, the proliferation of games.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
You know.

Speaker 8 (12:21):
Another question that I wanted to ask you, in terms
of just reading or reading the book, you know, there's
you know, all these different stories that I come across
and I read it and for me, you know, coming
from that background, I can actually it's like one of
those books that you read and you can actually visualize
it happening as you go along, you know. I mean
in one of the things, I mean, every last one

(12:43):
of the stories almost kind of stands out to me,
you know, But in your line of work. What story
in this book? I mean that you're writing it. I
mean you've encountered a lot, you know, and going through
all of this, what stories ends out most? Because we
were just going over some of the stuff that you
want to read, what story stands out the most to you?

Speaker 9 (13:06):
Probably all of the stories have extreme relevance. And you know,
there's a noose saying a soldier knows a soldier. Somebody
real knows somebody real. Somebody who is in and of
the work, or in and of the culture knows somebody
who was in and of the culture. As you read
the stories, it becomes extremely obvious that I came out
of the culture and I wear that with no shame whatsoever.

(13:29):
In order to have expertition of given culture, in order
to really be able to engage individuals in the understanding
of that culture, you have better had your hands in
that culture and know what the hell you're talking about.
Because anybody that picks up that book, especially my brothers
and sisters who are representing in the gang environment, the
first thing they gonna say is this dude qualify Is
he real? And so they can tell by the stories,

(13:52):
oh yeah, he's been there and done that. Probably if
I was to pick one, which is very hard to do,
it would be the introduction.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
It would be right.

Speaker 9 (14:01):
And the reason it would be Rock is because Rock
and the reason why the introductory chapter is so long,
because it basically deals with every component of comprehensive community
intervention within that story, every every aspect, peace.

Speaker 5 (14:16):
Negotiation, communication, license to operate.

Speaker 9 (14:20):
Yeah, I can go on and on and on. It's
all entailed in that in that in that introduction.

Speaker 8 (14:26):
Yeah, and when I was reading, I think there was
a breakdown anywhere where. I think I came across a
point where it was like someone wasn't qualified to operate,
and so that broke down to talk because the person
wasn't qualified to make those type of decisions, and so
everything that talks broke down and you had to go
all bay start all the way back over again, you know.

Speaker 9 (14:45):
Yeah, and somebody almost got popped because home he pulled
out a little four five and he was ready to
pop some caps on some people. And it also shows uh,
and you know, so many people who have the expertise,
they run around here as if they know all the answers,
et cetera. And it really perturbed me because none of

(15:06):
us have that capability, especially dealing with the concept of violence.
But with that also that one story, but I showed
my flaws also, my team was not on it. We
allowed that gun to get in there. We were in
the peace mediation, should not have ever happened. So what
we had to do at that point, Rosa was go
back and debrief, which came up with the concept of

(15:26):
debriefing in all of our trainings, we.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
Debrief every situation.

Speaker 9 (15:30):
Was that the best thing we could have did, what
do we need to do in the future, et cetera.
We all could have been basically terminated up in that
place because of one breach of security which never happened
again exactly.

Speaker 8 (15:42):
Yeah, and you know, I wanted to take this time,
and I know we've probably never done this on the show,
but we just talked about it. Whether or not Rosa
can read, like, you know, something from the book and
maybe give you know, and you kind of you know,
chime in on it and give us some you know,
some feedback on what it is that she's reading to us,
you know, I mean, because I know you didn't live there, so.

Speaker 9 (16:05):
Well, I think we'll start off with Rosa reading Hollow
Point and then we'll talk about it.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
There we go.

Speaker 10 (16:14):
Hollow Point got his nickname because he packed a nine
milimeter with a ten shot clip loaded with illegal bullets,
and he didn't hesitate to use them. He was a shooter.
I was breaking bread with Point one evening and we
got to talking about his life. Where are you going
from here, young brother? What you're gonna do when you
get to my age? What about family, children, a wife?
I asked him, Man, I ain't gonna never have that

(16:36):
type of life. That ain't for me. I've done put
too many rivals in the ground. I know when my
time come, I'm gonna be blasting.

Speaker 7 (16:43):
Nah.

Speaker 10 (16:44):
Point, you ain't got to get out like that. I said.
There's ways out of life. A lot of us have
done it, but it ain't easy. It doesn't come without bruises.
For the a kill when you and your people were
out there, that was a different time. All I can
hope for is to be idolized, how much I name
remembered for standing up and not punking out for anyone
or anything. In all honesty, that's the way I want it.

(17:06):
I get everything I wanted of this life. Bitch is dope, money,
rep men. There ain't no more to life than that.

Speaker 5 (17:16):
Wow. Why you know, Wow?

Speaker 8 (17:21):
That story sounds it sounds typical when you run into
some of the you know, the cast is, you know
that's there. It's hard, you know, and trying to give
them the feedback that there is a way out. But
then I'm gonna let you chime in because that's first
hand experience here.

Speaker 9 (17:36):
Well, there was so much in that one little small story.
The first thing you look at is the engagement. Okay,
obviously you have to have some credibility for somebody like
Hollowpoint to engage you. So one of the first things
I would tell people, and trying to deal with the
nexes of urban violence to a larger degree of violence,

(17:57):
you've got to have credibility. The people are not going
to gauge you. Hallow Point was a straight up shooter.
What we know in the street, a shooter is somebody
that does the dirt work, terminating people, and.

Speaker 5 (18:07):
Hollow Point was good at it.

Speaker 9 (18:09):
So normally he would only engage with people of that
same caliber. But because of the respect I had no
arrogance meant whatsoever in the rep I had. He engaged
me because he looked to me as a mentor and
an elder. Secondly, you would have to go through Okay,
what does a person want? We saw from the story
hollow Point was he was living his life, so his

(18:32):
normality was exactly what he was doing. And his fame,
his claim to fame, was to go out in the
blaze of glory exactly. So now I have to say, Okay,
if I'm gonna try to change this little brother's thinking process,
what am I going to offer him that's going to
give him the same type of.

Speaker 5 (18:50):
Reward that he's getting out of his life. So it's
not just going here, brother Hollowpoint, just put down the
gun and stop to killing. And you know, brother you
talking about. And then the third thing.

Speaker 9 (19:04):
Was the fact that Okay, Hollowpoint is basically saying, I
kill you were out there. It was a different time.
My generation is living with another mode of thinking. So
either Hollowpoint did not know that I had been continuously
on the street, or he feels that I'm disassociated with

(19:25):
his thinking process.

Speaker 5 (19:26):
So now I've got to breach that.

Speaker 9 (19:28):
I've got to show him that I do know what
he's going through, I do know what his thinking process is,
and I can assist in that process.

Speaker 5 (19:35):
Okay.

Speaker 9 (19:36):
Lastly, you can see just from the engagement, this is
gonna be a long term engagement. This is not gonna
be no one or two or three sit out with
hollow point and then we're gonna have him going another path.
He might not even I might not even convince him
to turn. But if I can't convince him to turn,
what are my options? Can I reduce him doing damage

(19:56):
to the neighborhood, to the community. Isn't something I can
provide to the table to where he will not be.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
As explosive as he would be. There was no boundaries
put in place.

Speaker 9 (20:07):
Yeah, So now all of this is strategy that you've
got to think out plan et cetera. And there's gonna
be some hits and missis in that process. The one
thing we would like to do is try to redirect
him before he does any more major damage.

Speaker 5 (20:22):
And I don't know if that's a possibility. Yeah.

Speaker 8 (20:24):
And one of the things I think he said in
that was that, you know, there's no way for him
out because he laid down too many people too. It's
too many people looking for him. It's too many people
they you know, got that he got that bull's eye
on him. And I think that one of the things
that when people do find that out, you know, they
have to totally and completely get away from where they was,

(20:45):
you know, where they was born, where they was raised,
and just totally just you know what do you call
it a relocate somewhere kind of kind of far. But
you know, when individuals coming up in the hoods, you
know that's all they know.

Speaker 9 (20:58):
You know, well, that's a an excellent point you bring up,
brother law, because you know, are the options.

Speaker 5 (21:05):
That we might provide, are they doable?

Speaker 9 (21:09):
You know, to move somebody out of the venue, put
them in another geographical area, and then keep some resiliency
around them where they have some type of buffer where
they can't be found out.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
Brother that's monumental.

Speaker 9 (21:23):
It takes money, it takes effort, and normally you're not
going to be infused with those type of capabilities. So
you look at the next option. You've got to have
more than one option going in and at the same time,
you've got to engage because if hollow Point has this target,
as you so well said, on his back, which he does, Okay,

(21:43):
your involvement with hollow Point might put that same target
on your back.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
So see, you know, some of these people going.

Speaker 9 (21:52):
Into the heart of the villy of this beats thinking
that just because they come from a university or come
from an organis that knows the neighborhood to a certain degree,
you don't really understand the depth of what you have
to deal with when you are engaged in this devil
and you can't be afraid going in. I want to

(22:14):
emphasize that because as you choose to engage, you've got
to know the consequences that you might have to face
in terms of trying to create some element of peace
and safety in these neighborhoods. We've had many individuals inclusive
in this struggle that lost their lives lost. I've almost
lost my life on quite a few occasions. In the

(22:35):
book echoes those points. But your passion, your drive, and
your willingness to give some back to the social context
of this society has to be driving you to tell
you that you've got to move forward with this process.

Speaker 5 (22:48):
Hell, at the end of the day, we all gonna
die anyway. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 8 (22:54):
You know, you know, in my growing up, because I
come from that environment, you know, like Hallow Point, you know,
you take that name, you automatically know he's about business.
You know, whenever you hear certain names or individuals. I
remember when I was growing up, they dubbed me on
Loco and so because they done me on local, I

(23:15):
had to be on the forefront of the line. I
couldn't be on the back back into everything because that name.
I had to live up to that name. If I
didn't live up that name, it'd get stripped from me
real quick. Like you say, you have to have that
license to operate. People have to be able to have
You have to be able to represent, you know, and
live up to that name. And I think that whenever
you encounter and it wasn't easy for me to make

(23:37):
that transition. But when I came into that consciousness that
I had to do this, you know, even when I
see people walk up to me years later, you know,
and they called me that name, I automatically know they
don't know about my transformation.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
They don't know about what I'm doing. Now.

Speaker 8 (23:51):
Some people it's very difficult for them to, you know,
get away from that. But you know, I come up
where individuals where we did have the individuals that did
make that effort to try to you know, like you
uh and myself tryna make that effort and put these
young brothers and sisters about in this environment. You know,
back in the days, they didn't have one of you
or me to try to make that effort right. Well,

(24:12):
and this and one other thing I wanna do was
was but I'll let Rosada because I wanna come to
a point where we understand. I want you to explain
the program that you do now along with with individuals.

Speaker 9 (24:24):
And.

Speaker 8 (24:26):
You can't be replicated, but we have there's so much
violence around M to where you know, you got these
business en franchised, but at some point we need to
franchise this because you can't be in one place at
every time.

Speaker 9 (24:38):
You know what I'm saying, Well said, Look, I didn't
wanna go back and the like I said when we
first talked about the book a couple of shows today ago,
there were certain things I had to put in a
book that I would have never put in a book
because I was taking them to my grave, not because
I was ashamed of M or anything of that nature.

Speaker 5 (24:58):
It was just too personal.

Speaker 9 (24:59):
But if if I was going to write a guide
a road map, people had to be able to be psychologic,
physically and emotionally moved when they read what was in there.
So I had to put those things in there, some
of those things.

Speaker 5 (25:12):
Which which were part of my trauma.

Speaker 9 (25:14):
And one of the things that the book did for
me was helped me deal with a whole lot of
my trauma. Since it's end the book, I will say it,
but I would have never told people this. You know,
back in the day, I was an enforcer, straight up.

Speaker 5 (25:25):
I was known.

Speaker 9 (25:26):
Everybody knew my discipline. They knew if you came across
brother I kill you better be ready to deal because
he is going to enforce whatever the cold ruler was
was that was prelevent at that time.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
And I did that well.

Speaker 9 (25:38):
And even as I went into the social organizations, I
carried that banner with me through the party, through the nation.
You know, I was an enforcer across the board, and
so being that it allowed me to acquire a whole
nother level of respect and appreciation for the younger soldiers
on the street because they know I was about no
bull Okay. They knew business was to be ad So

(26:00):
if you came across A KILLU, you better be.

Speaker 5 (26:02):
On point baw.

Speaker 9 (26:04):
And with that being said, I had a higher level
of discipline, I had a higher level of structure and operation,
and a lot of the younger soldiers adhere to that
because they were looking for that general ship.

Speaker 5 (26:18):
So I was able to turn.

Speaker 9 (26:20):
That into some very constructive components in dealing with them
because I didn't have to go after so many of
them because they came after me.

Speaker 5 (26:29):
Remember, I had.

Speaker 9 (26:30):
One of the first black martial arts fighting centers in
the city.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
Back in seventy two.

Speaker 9 (26:39):
I had my first martial arts school on actually it
was my third martial arts school on fifty second and Broadway,
so a lot of the individuals from the different sets
were there. We had the Malcolm X Center down the street.
We had the first Orthodox mos Zaides on Vernon. At
the time, we had a Tempo fifty six out on Broadway.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
So I was in the middle.

Speaker 9 (27:02):
Of a hug and so in the book it to
talk about my reputation and staying on the streets and
how I was able to be effective.

Speaker 5 (27:10):
It was because of that.

Speaker 9 (27:11):
Now, what I had to do with that is I
had to turn that if I was going to build
something into something structurally that wasn't personally driven by me.
What I mean by that is, time and time again,
the individual have that connect with the people.

Speaker 5 (27:27):
He's able to turn, she's able to redirect.

Speaker 9 (27:30):
But at the end of the day, if that's all
it is, what happens when that individual is removed from
the process.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Dies decides to go a different way.

Speaker 9 (27:40):
Getting to the second part of your question, brother, allowed,
that's where we had to start professionalizing and creating systems.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
We started to we had to start.

Speaker 9 (27:49):
Building strategies that we're going to be able to transpose ourselves.
So what we had to do now is say, Okay,
what are we being effective and how are we being effective? Okay,
we understand credibility, we understand personality. So if somebody was
to step in and try to do the same degree
of work, what would be the essential tools that they

(28:12):
would need to be effective, maybe not having the same
level of credibility that I had, but what could be
brought to the table that they can supersede what I built.
And that's where the process of creating system driven practices
and protocols became so essential. That's why we developed the
training institute, and a lot of that came from my

(28:34):
engagement in the martial arts, where we learned.

Speaker 5 (28:37):
Strategies and structures.

Speaker 9 (28:38):
But the book end result was to create a whole
complexity of situations and then build out how you would
deal with those situations with a process. You notice after
each chapter what we read on Pigtail Rose is going
to Repicktail. I know each of these things represent the

(28:59):
actual story which gave you the feet are the situation.
Now we went in reverse and say, okay, if this
situation was to happen again, what would be the steps
that would be needed to take to redirect hollow point?
Pigtail Lou in a different direction, got you, that was
the concept?

Speaker 5 (29:20):
Okay, got you?

Speaker 10 (29:21):
Okay, Well, here we have the story of Pigtail. So
it says Pigtail got her name from her hairstyle. She
combed her hair into two balls on the side of
her head, kind of like Mickey Mouse's ears. She was
a small fifteen year old who made him for her
lack of height, with a firecracker personality, responding to people

(29:43):
with aggression and violence. I have grown up with her father, Slim.
We'd gone through some hell in the streets together. Slim
called me one day to ask me to enroll Pigtail
in my karate school to straighten her out because she
was getting in deep with a girl. King. I'm afraid
I find on step in, She's going to end up
locked up, her dead, or I'm going to end up
eliminating some people, he said. When I saw Piktol arrive

(30:04):
at class with Slim, she was hanging out of her car,
talking smack to people walking by her usual self, I
knew I'd have to have a sit down with her
because her class. I asked her why she'd joined the gang,
especially as she came from a solid family. She said
the gang gave her a protection from girls at school
who were always picking on her and beating her down.

(30:24):
She said it happened so many times she developed that
aggressiveness as a defense, but even that did not stop
the torment. It only stopped when a group of female
gang members befriended her. Once she was accepted into the set,
which liked her fiery temper and could use it for
its own purposes, the bullying stopped immediately. No one else
had ever stuck up for her. Her pops tried, but

(30:47):
he never really understood how severe the bullying was and
thought it was normal kid's stuff. Because the gang stood
up for her, she said she'd be loyal to the
homegirls always. Pictol made real progress. As she studied martial
arts with me for two years. She became an astounding
student as a savage street far fighter. She also learned
how to control her temper most of the time, but

(31:08):
she never was able to break away from her homegirls.
Her body was found one night in an abandoned house.
She had been beaten, strangled, rape repeatedly, and left on
a pile of trash. I had grown to love Pictol
like she was my own, and her death affected me profoundly.
Her parents never recovered from the loss of their daughter.
They divorced, and her mother later committed suicide. Pigdale's killers

(31:31):
were never caught.

Speaker 5 (31:32):
Wow. Wow, Yeah, I did not, you know, evidently I
didn't get into that.

Speaker 10 (31:39):
I think, wow, it honestly for me, like I feel
like I've mentioned it before, but like all these stories
really humanize those people, you know, people in gangs. Because
for me, growing up and gang infested community and still
living there, I have this trauma of like, you know,
when I was an eight year girl, I told you,
like the bullets peers through our garage door and I

(31:59):
would see my dad kind of come home, you know,
and work twenty four to seven, and I would kind
of think to myself, like, you know, why us we're
trying our hardest to survive and get out of communities
like this. But at the same time, it's like now
reading this and now living in Samonard, do you know
even still gag infested communities. I can humanize these individuals
who are in gangs and know that they're just like me.

(32:22):
They're trying to survive, they're trying to get out of
this lifestyle or there's some trauma that they have that
they find that healing in gang life exactly.

Speaker 8 (32:32):
And it goes back to you know, just Pigtail story. Yes,
when you see where she was saying that the father
didn't understand me, you know, and so that made her
more acceptance of the gang, and the gang embraced her
and they later able to utilize her. But I think that's,
you know, that's the story that we hear. The story
that we hear is that these young people grow up

(32:54):
and to think about it is moms and pops or
just moms whatever, it is, just at home, ustly, working
day in and day out, paying no attention in the
and wherever they can get their intense from.

Speaker 5 (33:06):
Yeah, exactly. The survival and there's nothing wrong with trying
to survive. They have to work in order to provide.

Speaker 8 (33:12):
But the thing about it is we lack on the
other end of it, being able to send down and
communicate with our youth. But if we can't communicate with them,
most definitely somebody will communicate with them.

Speaker 9 (33:22):
Well, excellent point from both of you, Rosa and Allow. Look,
that's what happens in marginalized communities because of the lack
of economic regeneration. Families. In some cases, mothers, fathers have
to work two three jobs. What about the mother that
doesn't have the father at the house because he's either

(33:44):
in the funeral industrial conference or he's dead. So now
she has to be out there just to make basic
ends to me for them children.

Speaker 5 (33:52):
Okay, she knows she wants to be there with them.

Speaker 9 (33:54):
But you can now one of the things that that
story should have jumped right out, and what it jumps
out to most people when they got a little.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
Bit deeper, is the fact that I failed.

Speaker 9 (34:05):
See the father had brought Pigtail to me because he
couldn't handle her, which was an excellent move.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
Now I assumed that I could take.

Speaker 9 (34:14):
Her and if I put her into school, if I
get her around the right female soldierrettes and soldierrets with
my structure, etc. That we could change her. Now we did.
We did to a certain degree, but what we didn't
realize was, yes, we put the external discipline in place.

(34:35):
Her actions and behaviors changed. She became a savage fighter.
She was able to control her temper. But the one
thing that she was affiliated with the gangs for was
the inclusion that they gave her when they took up
for her. Even when she changed her whole life around,
what did she the drawback to the female sisters was

(34:56):
the fact that they included her in the process, gave
her hope and made her feel God.

Speaker 5 (35:00):
I missed that. So it was lorthy.

Speaker 9 (35:03):
It was loyalty, but it was loyalty based on the
fact that they gave her wholeness and regardless. Now most
people would say, well, those were gang members, bloody, bloody blind, Yeah,
but her normality were those gang members. They were the
only ones that assisted her to get some level of
greatness in her, for her to feel hope, etc. And

(35:25):
me coming out of the culture, I missed that because
the externals was I saw her discipline go up.

Speaker 5 (35:30):
She was structured she.

Speaker 9 (35:32):
Was doing good, and so coming back full circle, what
I had to do now is look at that whole
situation and say, Wow, where did I drop the ball?
But the other thing that the story tells you was
what Not only did Pigtail lose her life, her mother
committed suicide and her father went astray. So the whole
family was destroyed in the process because we couldn't get

(35:55):
to the root cause of what was causing the violence
in the first place. Wasn't her being in the gang.
It was the fact that it was a lack of inclusion.
She was bullied in the process. She didn't feel hope.
Her father was not able to get to her, so
she didn't have an external reach out. There were so
many components that were missed that had to be brought
to the table.

Speaker 10 (36:17):
Wow, and I think we have a collar, yes, sir,
hey when.

Speaker 11 (36:26):
But wist every guy's talking about hollow point and Pigtail.
I knew a lot of hollowpoint, a lot of picktail.
Once the you know, my father was killed uh Mar
twenty fifth, nineteen severy too. So I we didn't call
ourself gangs. We called our self factory.

Speaker 12 (36:50):
We can throld a lot of drug traffic and as
far as they here see once once, once you get
involved like that got in the game in seventy five,
so it was a full scare war going on. It's
like some people went to Vietnam and her rid.

Speaker 13 (37:08):
I'm in the war on the streets and it's not no,
and your mentality really changes, Like I really haven't been
out of the game since January fifteen, twoenty twelve. It's
a conscious decision, you know, Like even and see the

(37:28):
street documentation is so strong. It's stronger than drugs.

Speaker 5 (37:33):
It ain't.

Speaker 13 (37:34):
It ain't like nobody when you really a knock around person,
you really kind of enjoy it. Only thing I went
to four funerals in one week and not they didn't
get killed at the same point they were. And it
wasn't people I've seen walking up and down the street.
These are people who I'm out here getting it up

(37:54):
with your mind. Your mind you always own uh deepen.
I mean I mean you you know you want to
when when you when you go out to a restaurant,
you pick the seat to Sydney, I mean you you
really you take one two steps, I mean you're looking

(38:15):
behind your back. You know you can call a pen.
But it's like you if you want to stay alive
out here, and and it's like you have to make
a conscious decision. I'm my attorney. I was, I'd be
the federal case. My attorney said, if you got someone
to go, go because everybody gonna be dead.

Speaker 5 (38:38):
And I was.

Speaker 13 (38:40):
He was trying to and you know, he he he
put it to me in a way. You know, I said,
what you trying to see? He told me that to
come vote, because see when I called a federal case.
The light of people, they don't they look at when
they ain't in the game. They don't they don't really
know when you really in it. You know, you catch
a fair case. You know where the body's been. So

(39:00):
people look at you like, hey, well he flipped your
life is in danger partment. You might think, oh, these
guys love you and everything. Okay, ye'll blow your brains
if they take a boat. They think you weaker, then
you think you strong. You're going and it be your friends.
And I knew guys out here that would kill that

(39:23):
would kill you and help your mother bury you help
your mother, you know. So so when when when we
are we gotta give them the flip side. I have.
I have a hard time getting in places talking to people,
but it don't deter me because I know I have
something to say. But I listen to you guys in

(39:45):
this sight, I know so many hollow points. A lot
of them got five life sentences, you know, or or
was put to death. But and some I know, some
girls fine, fine, beautiful. You have to watch them before
because they'll smoke you quicker than all the point.

Speaker 12 (40:02):
You know.

Speaker 13 (40:04):
So anyway, you know, we just get I know you
guys are doing a great job, yo, you guys, you
and in the main thing, you guys really train. But
you know, we gotta get more people. They really want
to try, you know, to turn it around. Because see,
I'm not really mad at these white people out here
taking care of the out. We the ones gotta if

(40:27):
we going to solve all problem, we gotta do it ourself.
You know, ain't no, ain't no, ain't nobody coming out
of sky. You know, they they put it on the
church and all that. The churches ain't doing nothing for
the commute. You know what they should be. They getting
the money, but they ain't doing what they could do.
We the only ones that can get our whole self

(40:48):
out of this hole the.

Speaker 5 (40:51):
US is.

Speaker 13 (40:53):
That's right, that's right. So appreciate you guys taking my car.

Speaker 11 (40:58):
I know you guys real, y'all really really trying to
turn this thing around.

Speaker 13 (41:03):
We just need more you got and.

Speaker 9 (41:06):
We need brothers like We need brothers like you to
appreciate your voice. There's a big difference between elders and olders.
Elders is out here trying to put it in. You
mentioned a minute ago that we need to to reach
out and do and and there needs to be more.
That's why one of the reasons why brother Ali put
this show together, which we salute him for, to try

(41:27):
to get that voice out there, to try to get
more on board. We need more people, you know, who
are committed to that. Uh, we're gonna have Rosa one
more story and then we're gonna transpose this into a
larger community of violence.

Speaker 13 (41:43):
And we have.

Speaker 14 (41:50):
But good morning justice watch crow. Yeah, it's about it's
about what almost two o'clock in the morning here man.

Speaker 5 (42:05):
Here in.

Speaker 14 (42:07):
The Netherlands. And as you guys know, I'm being admitted
to the to the International Criminal Course. So we're trying
to get some things estal over here. And so you know,
been a little bit of busy trying to enjoy myself
a little bit, but I did get an opportunity to
hear it, and you guys are definitely holding it down today. Yeah,

(42:32):
and it's a it's an outstanding, outstanding discussion. And obviously
I'm really excited about the fact that we're digging deeper
into your book because your book itself could could be
a show because it's so informative and it you know,
it gives a lot of information, you know, both to
individuals who are involved, as well as obviously a lot

(42:53):
of individuals who really don't understand the culture and actually
what you know, uh, individuals are going through, and you know,
to hear yourself and and and below talk about, you know,
the reality of really what's going on inside of the culture,
I mean, is really powerful and it's enlightening, and I

(43:15):
think it's the type of education that we actually need
because it really goes to the point that we're really
living in two different, uh and maybe three different Americas
as far as really what's going on, as far as
individual's reality and what they have to deal with, you know,
on the streets, and and the fact that unfortunately, you know,

(43:38):
it takes individuals like yourself and below, uh, you know,
who are actually on the street working with these individuals,
you know, to really get out here and actually deal with,
you know, the crisis and and and kind of understanding
really what's going on. Because clearly, unfortunately we spoke about

(43:58):
this before that we should not have to deal with
it like it's a problem within our community. It should
be a problem that actually could be dealt with. And
from a broader perspective, we're we're left out here trying
to do these things, you know, on our own. I
think that if we had seen this as an American problem,

(44:19):
then obviously America could obviously get involved and actually you know,
try to do something about it. However, we do know
that there's been a history from the very beginning of
concerted efforts to make sure that individuals who are are
in these particular communities and in these in these conditions

(44:40):
that you know, that they can't get out of them.
I mean, you know, a lot of it is constructed.
In other words, there is no you know, I think
that a lot of times our communities are often compared
to other communities that have been able to be you know, successful. However,
in comparison which is unfair because in comparison to the
Native American community and other indigenous communities in the African

(45:03):
American community, you know, we haven't There's always been a
government effort to make sure that we are putting this
in these conditions, and and unfortunately, our young men you know,
are having very you know, I think reading the history
and understanding when you have a government that has made sure,

(45:24):
you know, to to you know, concerted efforts to put
drugs in the community, concerted efforts to to try to
destroy black men and black women, you know, or destroy
empowerment altogether by you know. And there is an ongoing
effort to make sure that those individuals who have been
very instrumental in in contributing to our community, they have

(45:48):
actually been you know, uh, you know, targets.

Speaker 5 (45:52):
You know.

Speaker 14 (45:53):
And and there's a long legacy of people who have
went into the communities and tried to make these differences.
When they go into the community and try to make
these differences, there's an effort to make sure. I want also,
I think maybe next week we might touch on it,
and I want kind of rosa when you get an opportunity,
I want you to look at this thing. I was

(46:14):
reading about actually while I was here that I had
an opportunity to speak to someone. They talked about this
issue called the race paper. And I don't know if
anybody has ever heard about that, but that's actually something
with a Department of Homeland Security and the h and
the other federal agencies who have actually been targeting some

(46:34):
of the more recent uh you know, UH movements UH
and activists and and and basically there's a lot of
the paperwork, the papers and surveillance that have been conducted
where they've been following individuals who have been going across
the country involved in some of the activism in some
of the marching UH. These individuals have actually been surveillanced

(46:59):
by the federal government and it seems that this effort
has been you know, kind of uh. It's very similar
to the Cointeil pros operations and been targeting, targeting, you know,
African American activists. So we get it from all points.
We've got them putting poison in the communities and then

(47:20):
in the same you know, uh breath when we have
individuals who are actually in the communities trying to make
sure that they're doing things to make things right within
the community. Oftentimes they they become you know, targets, so
they try to go out of their way to make
sure that you know, sometimes that's why we end up

(47:41):
with so many water down leaders because they aren't you know,
there's a lot of leaders who are out there, unfortunately,
who are only able to operate based upon the fact
that they are subjected to a lot of compromise, and
the compromise oftentimes, you know, uh, undermine the overall objective

(48:02):
of the organization and the overall objective of kind of
trying to make the community become more progressive and do
the things that we're doing. But you know, I think
that it's that you know, as you always say, Doc,
I mean, it's it's not a moment, it's a movement.
So it's just an ongoing it's an ongoing struggle, and
you know, it is you know, something that I think

(48:23):
that you know, as we're going on and we're oftentimes
I think a few weeks ago, we were talking about
how we were going to see the increase in you know,
some of the you know shootings and places. You know,
of course we've seen recently the synagogue shooting. We've seen
these people sending out pipe bombs and doing all these
crazy things and creating this entire culture you know, of

(48:46):
hate and hating hate that has actually increased. And when
you clearly have someone in twenty eighteen, we've elected a
leader and have a country that basically is allowing him
to go and create this type of environment and and
and the type of type of things and the type
of things that you're seeing that you would not expect

(49:07):
to see at this point in our lifetime. We thought
we were progressing, and he's taking us back in decades,
you know, as far as as far as the way
that he's dealing with things, and and and you know,
it's it's it's it's terrible.

Speaker 10 (49:21):
Uh.

Speaker 14 (49:21):
But you know, unfortunately, sometimes things happen for a reason,
and we know that basically, you know, it's been been exposed,
so we know what we're dealing with. But again, I mean,
I'm not gonna hold you guys and wanna let you
guys get back to your conversation because I'm actually enjoying it,
even though it's it's really early and my father with you,

(49:42):
so I can't really go to sleep after listening.

Speaker 5 (49:45):
To what.

Speaker 13 (49:50):
A girl. Excuse me, let me tell you some of
the race papers. They've been around for a while. They've
been around for a while. They got for him right
with the hip hop police. What they're doing, they honestly,
they hired guys in the hood to heft they're working
for like the FBI, and what they're doing, they know everything,

(50:17):
just like her. Like brother Zulu's stopping christ. I wouldn't
be surprised if they're survailing him because they've been around.
It's been over us, been over fifteen years. They've been
doing that whenever they started to hip hop cops. They
started there. See you know how they had Fred Hampton.
They had Fred Hampton, the head of his security, working

(50:41):
for them, letting them know exactly where he was sleeping.
They're doing that right now. They started it about fifteen
years ago on the street. The race papers, especially in Missouri, they.

Speaker 12 (50:51):
Know about it.

Speaker 13 (50:52):
They know about it.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
Revolutions revolutions areas.

Speaker 9 (50:56):
Don't let fear stop them people. If we're going to change,
the next is where commune.

Speaker 5 (51:00):
These are at.

Speaker 9 (51:01):
Generals are just that generals, and we are made under pressure.
So that's why we have to continue take note of
what's being done. Those of us that have been through cointail,
those of us have been through the movement, those of
us that had to face the fire of what we
see reoccurring. Now it's incuberent upon us to bring the

(51:22):
strategies to navigate around that because it's not gonna stop.

Speaker 5 (51:26):
If it works, we have to move forward with it.

Speaker 9 (51:29):
So, you know, good words on your part, our lead
and our caller, and we're gonna try to wrap this
up and give some solutions and bring it into full day,
full day to day. And the violence that we see today,
it ain't just no gang violence out there exactly. So
we're gonna try to bring it full circle.

Speaker 8 (51:47):
Yes, and you know, just going going back to in
terms of like the violence that Zula was just speaking
in regards to, you know, we're gonna continue to see
the violence escalate because we have a cat that's in
office right now that's waiting his violence, that's putting it
out like that. And so that's why we see the
Sentagard shooting this week, and then we sat the one
at the Kroger store where the guy went into the

(52:07):
church prior to come to progress. Well it was all
race related, you know, but what.

Speaker 5 (52:12):
Is the missing link?

Speaker 9 (52:13):
And all of that, Brother Balau and I'm glad Zulu
brought up to points about the leadership, etc. You have
to give the people response capability. See, you cannot wait
for a suppression or a suppressive movement to come in
and do diligence for you. Our people are not getting
the skills and the tools and the capabilities to go

(52:34):
out and engage. And that's what I want to talk
about before we get off this thing. You cannot in
this environment today sit back and not propel yourself to
engage some form of violence somewhere in your lifetime.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
It is going to happen.

Speaker 9 (52:48):
And our communities are not getting the tools and skills,
and that's what we've got to do. So Rose is
going to read one more story and then we'll talk.

Speaker 5 (52:55):
Our way out of here.

Speaker 10 (52:56):
Yeah, and here we have the story of Julie. It
says I had known July for many years. In her
younger days, she had skated on the edge of game life,
largely through a boyfriend who was in it. But as
she matured, she left all that behind, got married to
another guy, and was focused on raising their two small children.
Then that old boyfriend resurfaced. He had never accepted the
fact that Julie had left him. He used to say

(53:18):
that she belonged to him and would always. After going
along with that for years, Julie finally packed up and left.
She didn't see him again until he re entered her
life with a vengeance. In a fit of jealousy driven revenge,
he murdered her husband and six year old daughters, strangling
them as well as torturing her husband. Julie had seen
the horrific display of their bodies in their home before

(53:40):
she called me sobbing. I stayed with her for hours
at the scene, later taking her for coffee so she
could collect her thoughts. She often stared blankly as we talked,
and made a plan for her to stay with her sister,
Following interventionist protocol to assist victims. I kept her company
until the sister arrived and promised to follow up with
her the name next day, confident that she seemed as

(54:02):
stable as she could be under the circumstances. One of
the toughest parts of the interventionist job is seeing the
victim's family at the most painful point of loss, usually
either at the crime scene or at the hospital. This
is where they may first learn of their loved one's
premature death, bear the full frontal assault of being a
bullet torn body, or witness their relative's last breath. Sometimes

(54:27):
it may not be a death, but a catastrophic injury
that can lead family members struggling to grapple graypful with
the prospect of giving lifetime care. The expression of anguish
and agony can be overwhelming. In my opinion, this is
what takes an emotional toll on the interventionist more than
the actual violence.

Speaker 9 (54:45):
Now, if you went through the end of that story,
what Julie ended up doing was killing herself and the
last daughter.

Speaker 5 (54:50):
That she had. And we thought we had got through
to her at the table.

Speaker 9 (54:55):
Her silence was basically a shut off and she put
up roadblocks that I was.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
Through and we didn't read that.

Speaker 9 (55:02):
I didn't read that, and so she did end up
we lost her.

Speaker 5 (55:07):
And that's the healing part.

Speaker 9 (55:09):
And it would be I would be remiss if I
didn't go into some quick strategies, and that's really what
I wanted.

Speaker 5 (55:14):
To get through.

Speaker 9 (55:15):
You know, if we're going to deal with the violence
first and foremost, we have to have what's called.

Speaker 5 (55:19):
Primary prevention, which means outfront.

Speaker 9 (55:22):
This is where we have to have strategies for the
entire community to be safe and to strive. The objective
in being out front is to stop violence before it occurs.
That's comprehensive prevention. That's unfortunately where most municipalities stop. Then
once we do that, we have to.

Speaker 5 (55:36):
Move over to principal intervention.

Speaker 9 (55:39):
And what principal intervention is is basically where we are
in the moment, once everything is going on, We've got
to get in there, intervene and.

Speaker 5 (55:47):
Try to navigate.

Speaker 9 (55:48):
It supersedes, it surpasses prevention because prevention for whatever reason
didn't work, or we stepped into.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
That violence situation while it was ongoing.

Speaker 9 (55:57):
The objective is to intervene at the first sign of risk,
counter effectively when violence occurs. Lastly, if we're able to
do that, we come to our last point, which is
treacherary engagement, which basically means recovery. Julie needed a state
of recovery, and it was certain components that should have
been brought to the table, but we didn't have the time.

(56:17):
She took her life, and she had gave up too quickly.
The objective is to repair and restore. We got to
repair and restore our youth, families and communities affected by
the violence, where there's gang violence, person to person violence, etc.
So out front in the moment and recovery that is
our overall larger strategy. Then we got to get more specific.
We got to come in there and say, well, okay,

(56:40):
what are the twos we've got to have. We've got
to be able to engage. Like I mentioned last week,
engaging means we've got to be able to deal on
all levels, whether that violence is family related, community related, etc.
We've got to be able to make an assessment, go
in there and say this is causing that we're going
to have to deal with that as well as the individual.
Once we gauge, we've got to be able to respond.

(57:02):
We either got to have crisis response unit. These are
practitioners who understand what the hell they're looking at, how
to go in them something happens, Critical debriefing teams people
that have the skills to go in there and not
only stop, but rehal and create that healing process. As
well as some short and long term strategies. Then we
go in to operate. We gotta be able to operate

(57:22):
at every function. We got to bring equitable services in.
Once we establish that stability. What are these people gonna
need to create some type of stableness both in the
short and long term. And you heard me mention that
both men are times. Then we have to collaborate. We've
got to bring everybody to the table that can get
those equitable services in to repair our community and make

(57:42):
it heal.

Speaker 5 (57:43):
Two more, and the lastly, we've got to build bridges.

Speaker 9 (57:46):
We've got to start building the componentry to where we
can take these individuals who are traumatized, who were in
a state of crisis and put them in different environments
as you mentioned earlier, Bellow, but we can get them
out of that mix.

Speaker 5 (57:58):
So we gotta hold wrap around strategy.

Speaker 15 (58:00):
There exactly besides what you have, besides the organization that
you have right now, do you know of any other
organizations that actually do what you do?

Speaker 5 (58:10):
Oh? Yeah, we collaborate across the nation.

Speaker 9 (58:12):
Uh you know, we train, That's one of the reason
why we have a training center, but everywhere we go
to train because we're practitioners.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
We on the ground.

Speaker 9 (58:19):
We create that safety net to holistic safety net that
I talked about last week. It's where we've got these
not only cities working with each other, but these different
group we got out here, the Reverence Project, Brother that
Killer Sharells.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
We got uh in uh.

Speaker 9 (58:31):
Montgomery County, Louis Scardona in the Sun program. So we're building.
I can go on and on and on before the
take of time. Everywhere we go, we build a larger
safety net and we all working together. And this is
ground level practitioners who come out of the work who
understand violence. Well, mkay, we work at universities to USC, UCLA,
Chicago School, Uh, the Alliance in International, et cetera.

Speaker 8 (58:56):
Okay, So, I mean it's just it's been a very
enlightening show, you know, especially going through your book and
being able to see some of the stories, you know,
and you being able to kind of, you know, walk
us through all the stories that actually been read. You know,
it's been an eye opening experience or i awakening for

(59:16):
me just to you know, hear you speak about that.

Speaker 5 (59:18):
But the book is on at Barnes and Noble and Amazon.

Speaker 8 (59:23):
Okay, So thank you for tuning in to Justice Watch
Radio with Attorney's Zulu Ali Michael blau Clock along with
the Justice Watch crew Rose in New Year's Doctor go
Akil Vasha. We'll see you next week. Same time, same
place until next week. Stay Blessed.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
NBC News on ACAA Loma, sponsored by Teamsters Local nineteen
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Speaker 5 (59:56):
Dot Org, M.

Speaker 7 (01:00:03):
NBC News Radio, I'm Rob Martier. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy
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