09-20-25 -- Objects of the Damned

Objects of the Damned: Curses, Dolls, and Haunted Relics

From pharaoh’s tombs to porcelain dolls that whisper misfortune, humanity has always feared that objects can carry something more than memory.

 In this episode of Juxtaposition, we explore the world of cursed relics — swords that demanded blood, dolls that answer letters, treasures that leave only ruin, and paintings so feared they were banned from homes. Are these objects truly cursed, or are they mirrors of our own guilt, fear, and superstition? Step into the reliquary of the damned and decide for yourself.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
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Speaker 8 (02:46):
The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listener
and Discretion is advised.

Speaker 9 (02:55):
Cream big full roll.

Speaker 4 (03:04):
Out of side, government shadows, secrestique, conspiracy on full we.

Speaker 9 (03:13):
See straight encounter Sun explain to this out that really
shame man, my mother voice is all unleveling history story untold, a.

Speaker 10 (03:30):
Real fifty one whispering name, beautiful sightings, haunting flame.

Speaker 9 (03:42):
Love, miss monster, altering mys, cryptosolology in curious Kiff, Straight
encounter Sun explain to this.

Speaker 11 (03:57):
Out that really change then went.

Speaker 9 (04:00):
No FOSSi faull love mystery stories untold.

Speaker 10 (04:07):
See takes out to believe that's fornces heading yet.

Speaker 9 (04:17):
Suns continuous, strange and counting. Sun explain to this out
that blately shame that when mother is fastest ball mystery
stories untold.

Speaker 11 (04:35):
Truth this out, truth out.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
And Happy Saturday night, everybody, hope you're having a great one.
It is Saturday night, which means it is also a
time for juxtaposition. We are two weeks away from Juxstober.
Before we get too far into things, I want to
show I want to show some folks that something we
got this sent to us. We're gonna start using this
from now on when we've touched on a topic before,
and probably from all of Juxtober, since we're gonna be

(05:14):
live all month. But I just want to show this
off real week.

Speaker 6 (05:17):
Previously on Juxstaposition, I'll have.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
To do some work to get to the wind in
the background and mix the music in with it, but
we're going to officially use that starting.

Speaker 6 (05:25):
In two weeks. Woo the indominole Vincent Charles.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
All right, so anyway we're here, we're live, it's juxtaposition,
and we are going to be talking about one of
the topics that didn't make the cut for Juxtober this month,
but was still a cool enough one. And I was like,
we should everybody like a warm up to Spooky Month
because we're like halfway there anyway.

Speaker 6 (05:46):
So yeah, for Juxtober, we went over a lot of
topics that had a lot of depth to them, and
this was a topic that has a lot of depth
to it. It's also something we haven't touched on before,
so we figured we would do a primer on it
and so that way next time we touch on this
topic we can use. Previously on chuck'taposition, I've never heard

(06:08):
the person on the screen that we use, kind of
because you know, you don't like having your pictures shown
as the chocolate dude from Daily Wire before.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
That's interesting.

Speaker 6 (06:20):
Yes, So, how you been, man, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh, well, it's been It's been an interesting couple of weeks.
Things are starting to get back to normal around here.
I actually sat down and enjoyed a football game for
like the first time and forever. Of course, the one
I so, I hadn't watched an ou game yet this year.
The one I watched is one they turned into a
nail bider, and I'm like, really, y'all blew out the
first two and now I'm watching and you almost choke.

(06:49):
I hate you.

Speaker 6 (06:51):
Well, that's that's what makes it fun. Nobody wants to
watch a shutout.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, so I don't really it's not so. I don't
like the blowout games either. Like there was a there
was a a Georgetown Brown game today that somebody called
should have called a mercy rule on because it was
like thirty two nothing at the half, and I'm like, yeah,
just mercy, they're done. But I also don't really like
it when you know, there's like a three point lead

(07:16):
with five minutes left in the game and we just
fumbled or something, which is almost what happened today. So
I'm like, yeah, I almost had a stroke. It was fun,
not really anyway, I don't know why I get so.
I mean, maybe it's because I used to work there,
but I don't know why I get so involved in
the football games. It's not like I ever played there.
My son was going to try to go there and
decided not to go to college because he was like,
I'm gonna go get it trade first and make money

(07:39):
and then if I decided I want to go to
college later, I can pay my own way. I was like, oh,
so you did finally listen to me about something awesome.

Speaker 6 (07:46):
Well they get around to it eventually.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Now he's talking about wanting to try to run for office.
So yeah, anyway, so how are you.

Speaker 6 (07:58):
Yeah, I'm good. It's been rainy the last couple of
days and I'm digging it. You know, being in the desert,
you get that awesome rain desert smell, you know, that
kind of sagey thing, and so yeah, it's cool. Actually,
uh laughing about it. Doctor Squatch just released a deodorant
called Sierra Storm and it does smell exactly like a

(08:21):
storm in the Sierras. So that's my brand. Now there
we go. Now, yeah, it's cool out here. It's cool
and down. I'm not making ball soup and you know
I'll take it.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
So yeah, I'm thinking somebody must be speaking to you
because they said you sound younger than they thought you would.

Speaker 6 (08:44):
So, yes, that's worst nightmare. We just started following each
other recently.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
He's the oldest of the two of us, but he's
younger at heart, so I guess that counts.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
Yes, it's not the years, it's the miles. And fuck,
I got a lot of miles too.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Well. You know it's all those two for one coupons
behind circle.

Speaker 6 (09:04):
K, right, little agent man. So uh, cursed objects, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
I think we need to give the distinction here is
the word cursed carries a bit more weight than saying
an item and is haunted. If it's haunted, that just
suggests that there's a spirit tethered to it. You know,

(09:25):
something's still lurking, clinging to its formal possession. A cursed object,
it brings, it carries misfortune to everyone who touches it,
inflicting anyone who owns it, regardless of their connection to it.
It has agency, and the curse is woven in it,

(09:48):
you know, in the empty spaces. At the sematomic level,
it's just it it is its own entity, it's its
own artifact, and it's that's what makes curse objects much
more powerful and spooky than just haunted ones, because a
haunted one, you know, you can exercise it, you can

(10:09):
bless it. But you know, if you have an incarnation
of bad luck, death, whatever attached to an object, it
doesn't go away.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, I mean, you know, for those of you who
wonder what we're talking about between the difference between a
cursed object and a haunted one, just think Sam and
Dean every time they lit something on fire to make
the ghost go away. What we're talking about anyway. But yeah,
so folklore across cultures shows this distinction very early on.
In pre Christian Europe, battle trophies were actually believed to
carry the rage and blood of their fallen owners, including

(10:45):
such items as helmets, swords, and shields that were often
taken from slain enemies and found themselves locked away rather
than proudly displayed. Because victories run one through bloodshed were
thought to leave residue among the Norse. This idea calcified
into stories of sacred relics and taboo items, objects no

(11:06):
one dared to carry for fear they would claim new victim.

Speaker 12 (11:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (11:14):
A good example of that is the uh, the sort
of tearfing, which in Norse mythology, it really exemplifies the
arc type of the cursed item. The myth goes that
it was forged by dwarves under duress, and while it
had unmatched sharpness, the power behind it demanded blood every
time it was drawn. And we see that arc type

(11:34):
through a lot of cultures. Japanese, any proud sword cultures
had one of these types of swords, and it could
never be unseed without killing, and in every generation of
its owners it just left a trail of tragedy, and
you know, unlike a haunting, nobody was attached to it.
This was you know, the blade was cursed by the dwarves,

(11:57):
so you know, it was the curse itself.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah. So it's interesting that's that still kind of carries
on in culture today, especially in like native cultures, because
I actually know some folks that if once once a
blade of yours tastes human blood, a lot of a
lot of them will get rid of it because they'll
like they'll be like, from now on, it'll wanta taste
it all the time. So I think this may actually

(12:22):
be kind of a throwback to the legend.

Speaker 6 (12:24):
Of that particular curse. In my opinion, a lot of
you know, a lot of the topics we touch on,
you know, like especially when we're doing cryptids all next month,
it's cross cultural, you know. It's every culture has their vampire,
every culture has their wherewolf, every culture has their cursed blade.
And I can totally see that because it seems like,

(12:45):
once I've cut myself with a knife, I'm always cutting
myself with that knife.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, And I actually kind of think that's where that
comes from, because yeah, I've actually seen friends do that, Like,
damn it, I just bought this knife and it just
cut me out. I have to get rid of it.

Speaker 6 (12:59):
And then you just talk sit in a lake right
there next to my guns.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Tragic boating axes about boating accidental.

Speaker 6 (13:08):
But I mean this carries on even with Pharaohs, and
they took a different approach where, you know, rather than
cursing items directly, they cursed their entire tombs everything in it.
So you know, the inscriptions on the door on the
entrance of the tombs would warrn anyone disturbing the eternal
rest of the dead, but they would be devoured by crocodiles,
bitten by snakes, struck down by plagues. And you know,

(13:31):
while modern archaeology explains this is, you know, exposure to
mold or bacteria sealed in the tomb, you know, the
ancient logic is still there. You know, objects bound to
the sacred ground carried protective malice, whether it be four
thousand year old bacteria, mold, or you know, cheese. And
you know that malice would carry forward and the dead

(13:53):
king would rise to strike its its uh intruders, you know,
because of the curse itself.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah. So, and believe it or not, Early Christianity wrestled
with similar things. They believed in the power of objects
more commonly referred to as in some cases relics, So
relics of saints were believed to heal, protect, and bless,
but relics of betrayal or desecration carried the opposite effects.

(14:22):
Judas thirty pieces of silver became proverbial tokens of misfortune
and early damned currency that tainted any who profited from them.
And we've talked about this on juxtaposition before. There is
a very obscure legend that Judas is actually the progenitor
for both vampires and werewolves, and that's why they're side

(14:44):
of silver. So I just wanted to bring up that
little side note. So this hang on this, this would.

Speaker 6 (14:50):
Those are those were juxtapeople, those were juxtapositions or juxtobers
of years past.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Yeah, so this would have been a good time for this,
and I missed my cue.

Speaker 6 (14:58):
Previously unjustabs, so I had to do it. There you go,
you got a hot key.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
That one.

Speaker 6 (15:05):
Oh, you know, one of the stranger ones, especially the
obscure one is uh, because I had never heard of
this before doing the research.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
It's uh.

Speaker 6 (15:14):
The Bisano vase from Italy. It was said to have
been crafted in the fifteenth century as a wedding gift,
and the bride who received it died suddenly that same night.
Since then, the vase has passed through families for generations,
each inherit or allegedly meeting a swift and violent or
mysterious death, and by the twentieth century it was rumored
that the object had to be hidden, probably even buried,

(15:37):
by authorities who refused to let it circulate. You know,
It's unlike a sword or a relic or anything. The
vase is just a household item. It's just a simple
silver vase, and the reputation turned it into a lethal airloom.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Wouldn't that make that the original lethal weapon?

Speaker 6 (15:54):
But yeah, this highlights the central puzzles. Is the curse
inside the object, you know, woven into its DNA? Or
is it you know, is it inside the storyteller?

Speaker 13 (16:03):
You know?

Speaker 6 (16:03):
Is it insight? Is it in our head? Whereas you know,
it's each record of death might have been a coincidence,
but after two or three of them, at what point
isn't a coincidence anymore?

Speaker 12 (16:15):
You know?

Speaker 6 (16:15):
And it gave the vase a greater you know, weight
than than its own silver. You know, the owners believed
it would kill them, and that expectation of belief itself
was kind of like a fatal contasion.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
So well, not to tie it back to a juxtavision
from like a month ago, but remember how we were
just talking about the fact that it's very possible that
future decisions may actually are things that you haven't even
done yet may actually impact your past.

Speaker 6 (16:41):
So yeah, you know, the future informs the past. Those
when we're talking about three dimensional nature of time.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Good, the fact that so many different people have been
impacted by this vase started making it itself and making
it a self fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker 6 (16:54):
Well, yeah, and you know that that totally you know,
you know, the belief of the curse led it to
being cursed. I can totally buy that. But that's a
level of que physics we're not getting into in this show.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
You know me, I always gotta try to I know, we.

Speaker 6 (17:12):
Always gotta tie it. Yeah, it is, you know, and
we've talked about it over the six years have done
the show, maybe seven. Now, you know, everything seems to
be connected. Once you start looking at all the players
and everything, you start to say, well, this happened. Then
you know the dots they do connect.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
It'll be seven in April, by the way, that's right.
But so back at the topic at hand before we
wact too much more. Pro Poetic anthropologists often note that
cursed objects appear wherever taboos exist. The sacred relic once
desecrated actually in most instances, tends to flipolarity from what

(17:50):
could be once a blessed object to a cursed one.
A weapon that draws blood and dishonor carries the dishonor
forever a household if that becomes linked with tragedy never
escapes that. In this way, curses may represent a culture's
way of teaching respect. Objects are not neutral. They are
repositories of memory and consequence, which kind of ties back

(18:14):
into that whole quantum realm show we did about a
month ago.

Speaker 6 (18:16):
Again, Yeah, I mean the last show we did too.
You know, you know, stories resist rational boundaries. It's like
it was, it was always rumored that, you know, when
the Titanic sank, your press reports claimed that there was
a mummy sarcophagus lid on it, and it was rumored
to carry the pharaoh's curse, you know, and it had
been in the ship's hold. It turned out to be fabricated,

(18:39):
but the fact that the new newspapers at the time
leaned into that imagery shows how deep the power of
cursed object logic is. You know, is even a modern
marvel of engineering needed a mythic explanation for the disaster
because the mundane one just didn't. It didn't care the

(19:00):
same weight, you know, so it needed a relic, you know,
to provide you know, the weight of the tragedy.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Or it was propaganda so they would never realize it
actually wasn't the Titanic.

Speaker 6 (19:13):
That's say, yeah, that was some of the artwork that
JP Morgan took off the boat before it sailed. Previously
on juxtaposition, Yeah, couple, you were using the shit out
of that tonight.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
But yeah, so, psychologically, cursed objects also serve as scapegoats
when misfortune strikes. The cursed airm I'm sorry, cursed airloom
observes absorbs the blame. The deaths tied to the Bassano
vase may have been random, or maybe even not so
random for that matter, but attaching them to the base
gay families a way to contain their grief. The object

(19:52):
was evil, not the world itself. In this sense, curses
persevere and bring order traged He becomes explainable through contamination.
Very interesting.

Speaker 6 (20:06):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like that nineteen eighty
eight case. You know that it defies the frame that framing,
you know. An auctioneer in England reported acquiring an anti
chair is said to be linked to repeated accidents excuse
me among its owners. Rather than dismiss this pattern, the
auctioneer the auction house refused to let anyone sit in it,

(20:27):
and soon after a local historian trace the chair back
to executions in the seventeenth century, where not only was
the history behind it true, but the pattern and the
pattern of accidents persisted. It was actually cursed by the
person who was executed, you know, because he was sitting
in that trace said anybody who sits in his chair,
you know, before he was executed, anybody who sits in

(20:47):
this chair, you know, horrim will befall them. So they
nailed it to the wall so nobody could sit it
anymore because people kept sitting in it.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
So yeah, well, I mean it is human nature to
test the envelope. So as soon as you say something's cursed,
I mean, come on, well, I mean.

Speaker 6 (21:05):
That's the kind of thing that I will as we're
gonna be just exploring tonight.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Is that.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
You know, it's like, you know, a lot of people
will try to tempt fate. But also you know, as
despite all of the you know, pooh poohing of curses,
a lot of people still treat it with respect, you
know what I mean, even scientifically, or it's like, you know,
they're not going to tempt fate on it.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, I mean, I've always been a fan of better
safe than sorry. Just gonna be honest. Yeah, just putting
that out there. Yeah, go ahead, No, I said. Maybe
that's just me though, but I've always kind of been
a fan of better Seeman.

Speaker 6 (21:47):
Sorry, I mean that might be why curse items endurement,
hontered items fade though, is you know, hauntings can be
you know, exercised, like I talked about, spirits appeased, you know,
but a curse woven into the dna of an the
narrative and everything else, and the belief of anyone who
touches it, you know, is, even if you know you're
tempting fate, you still on some level believe in the

(22:08):
curse because you know, you're putting your hand in the fire,
you know. And destroying an item doesn't always remove the curse,
you know, sometimes it amplifies it.

Speaker 11 (22:16):
You know.

Speaker 6 (22:16):
That's the safest option is to preserve it and contain
it or hide it away.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yep, all right, so let's see. Sorry, I was making
sure I had the music looking.

Speaker 6 (22:31):
Yeah, we're still a few minutes way on it.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, I know, but I didn't want to be late
with it. So curse objects also appear in cultures that
have no formal word for anything, such as curse in Japan,
sup up my gage. They cannot say that word. Our
ordinary household items that after one hundred years awaken into spirits,

(22:55):
some actually becoming benevolent, but many carry resentment at like
a broken umbrella or a forgotten teapot could bring misfortune.
The Japanese didn't frame this as a curse exactly, but
the effect was identical objects acquire agency, and that agency
can turn against us. That really sound like something that
was started by a ticked off grandmother who was ticked
off at a grand yea, I'm just pointing that out.

Speaker 6 (23:19):
Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, And you know there's
also the factor of probability bias. You know, if enough
people handle it, you know, whether it's a weapon of
relic from a battlefield or a toxic material, some of
them will die. You know, And you tell the pattern
often enough, and then the narrative emerges, but you know,

(23:42):
it still fails to explain persistent sense of dread that
the owners and museums report in handling these objects. Yeah,
people don't think of these items as inert anymore. You know,
a sword, forge under oath, breaking a tomb, you know,
gift link to trail, you these all feel alive and
have meaning.

Speaker 3 (24:02):
You know.

Speaker 6 (24:03):
It's just like you know, we all cherish our grandmother's whatever,
you know, or our grandfather's whatever. That same power carries
itself with curses too.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Well, yeah, I mean one of the things, one of
the objects we're gonna be getting into tonight, somebody was
you know, in possession of it recently when they died
again like those like h I wonder how, I wonder
how accurate that?

Speaker 6 (24:29):
Why does this keep happening?

Speaker 11 (24:31):
You know?

Speaker 1 (24:33):
But yeah, so there is a there is a persistence
with chursed objects. Though, so the lore that is carried
across century suggests a deeper archetype which we don't like
to think of things because we don't actually like to
think of things as a nerd. We do this all
the time with stuff. We I mean, think about your
think about your car. You start to think about your

(24:55):
car as if it too has human characteristics. Most guys
call their car shees and give them name.

Speaker 6 (25:01):
Yeah, my foremunner's named Jenny. That's the name of a female.
That's what you call a female mule, and it carries
a lot of ships. So there you go.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
So your name is both your name is a bit
practical then but anyway, but it's just we have this
this this way of anthroperform anthropomorphizing things like and we
do it. We do it with objects, we do it
with pets. I mean, I don't know about you, but
the last time I wrecked my one of my cars,
I was beside myself and I'm like, dude, it's a car.

(25:33):
But I was like, but I've had this car for forever.

Speaker 6 (25:35):
No, I have to get a dude that like it. Yeah,
you remember everything you did in the car. You know,
it's like it's like a farewell montage on a TV show.
You want to have Sarah McLoughlin playing, you know, in
the arms of angels you're hauling it off to you know.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
For cars or everyone or every or everyone you did
in the cars.

Speaker 6 (25:55):
You're almost right, Well, there's that too, Yeah, but you know,
even skeptics to find themselves caught in the squabs, like
with a Bisano vase. You know, it might be a coincidence,
but who's going to volunteer to keep it in their
living room?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
You know?

Speaker 6 (26:08):
The trifling stores may just be a myth, but how
many historians would wield it if it were on Earth tomorrow?
You know, who wants to take that chance. You know,
the Pharaoh's warnings may be a metaphor, but archaeologists still
handle the inscriptions with a shiver. Yeah, everything, you know,
it still carries its weight. It carries a psychological weight.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, and again part of that is just because
I don't really there was a thought I was going
to try to make there, but but it escapes me.
I think a lot of what we have as far
as the reaction we have when people start talking about
curses and stuff, I think there's some stuff locked in
our amigdala from you know, when the world was a

(26:50):
lot scarier of a place and we didn't know as
much about it that I think that that reawakens some
things because one of the things we talk about this
show all the time is the world is not nearly
as I guess bright as you want to think. It is.
Not to steal online from you know, Tales from the
Dark Side, but you know, there is a there is

(27:12):
a there is a side of the world a lot
of folks don't see. So these cursed objects would be
one of those things. I mean, and they fascinate people.
I mean, I remember when it's Friday, the thirteenth, the
TV series came out, and I was completely disappointed at
first because it had nothing to do with the movies,
but it was all about cursed objects and them trying
to recover them. I was like, okay, and it had

(27:32):
a hot redhead so well.

Speaker 11 (27:34):
And.

Speaker 6 (27:35):
Totally unrelated to us choosing this topic. I'm watching Warehouse
thirteen again right now. I'm binging that. Yeah, and that
whole the whole show is about cursed objects. Yeah, and
so damn it, Vincent, I didn't even think to put
that in this one.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
James Dean's push, Oh man, that would have been a
good one.

Speaker 6 (27:57):
I was so focused on creepy dolls.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
And I mean we were trying to do a kind
of a tease of spooky season. So I mean, it's
not like there aren't a plethora of cursed objects. We
can come back around to this one again. It gives
us get another excuse to push.

Speaker 12 (28:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (28:15):
So what makes cur is it the tragedies that accumulate?
You know, is it the ability to separate coincidence from meaning,
you know, matter from the story. I mean, the curse
may live in the object, it may live in us,
you know, either way between the line between them, and
you know, kind of blurs, you know, the moment misfortune
clusters around a thing.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
So therein lies the unsettled truth. Ladies and gentlemen. Cursed
objects remind us that the world resist neat categorization. A
vase should be decoration, a sword should be metal, a
tomb should be you know, mostly dusty. But once death
or disaster coils around them, they refuse to go back

(28:59):
to being inert. They become actors in a play we
never agreed to stage. Objects of the Damned don't break.

Speaker 6 (29:09):
We got new Jeff music.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yes, yes, we do have new Jeff music. It'll take
me a second. I have it. Look, I have it set.
I just don't have it queued up because they've changed
something inside restream. So now anytime I little stuff, I
have to mute extra places to avoid echoes. So bear
with me for just a seconds. They fixed a bunch
of things, and they broke a bunch of things. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
I like that.

Speaker 6 (29:29):
I don't have to join an entire evening's worth of
programs to just promote the show I'm gonna be on.
I mean, I don't mind doing it, but sometimes I
miss the boat and then I don't get to push
my own show.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Almost not. I see how it is? Where are you?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
So?

Speaker 6 (29:49):
Anyway, now I got it talk funny talking about Warehouse
thirteen again too. You know, when we came up with
the topic and I was talking with Jeff, I said,
you know what you know, do some it's kind of
like Warehouse thirteen inspired. And then it occurred to me,
I'm actually watching it. It just started Warehouse thirteen.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
So anyway, that's what.

Speaker 6 (30:09):
We're that's what we're loading up.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
When Rick gets to it, I'm I had it loaded.
I swear I did. Now I can't find it. Oh wait,
there it is. Now I need to see if it's
on the screen. Can you see if it Yep, you
see if it's on the screen.

Speaker 6 (30:22):
New hotness from Jeff.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
All right, sorry, my my discord that we use for
show for upload stuff in a completely different tape. So
I had to find it for a minute.

Speaker 6 (30:34):
But here we go that we'll be back in six minutes.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Is it gonna play? Is not gonna play? What's going on.

Speaker 6 (30:46):
Live radio?

Speaker 14 (30:47):
Everyone?

Speaker 1 (30:49):
It says it's playing. I have no volume though. All right,
hang on, there's another way to.

Speaker 6 (30:58):
Do this with the other one. Press the button. I
love live radio. Yeah, I see the play button.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
There, don't be hateful. Yeah it was playing, It just wasn't.
It didn't have any volume, and I don't see a volume.
It doesn't surely it's muted. So what I'm gonna do
is try to do this another way.

Speaker 6 (31:22):
Okay, we really are professionals. We've been doing the show
for seven years.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
It's just happened in the library all the time.

Speaker 6 (31:30):
That's why I love live radio.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Why is my stop sharing button gone? Though? Okay, I'm
gonna freak out here because everything is being weird, all right,
So let's just.

Speaker 15 (31:43):
Do that and then.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Go over here.

Speaker 6 (31:53):
Oh wow, Mike trout here, we're on a time run.
I swear it's worth the way.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
It didn't down there? Yeah there, they're just I was like,
it didn't downloaded.

Speaker 11 (33:12):
She shall.

Speaker 16 (33:42):
Shadows all my.

Speaker 10 (33:46):
A smg of bell Road, the time you see Chris
holling out of ry.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
And never gone on every still sings a.

Speaker 9 (34:02):
Song in the truth, an iron fly about to like
go sound the same.

Speaker 10 (34:37):
Deers with fracture like.

Speaker 17 (34:45):
Dreams.

Speaker 10 (34:46):
That's a silver smile that cuts.

Speaker 18 (34:58):
Too d.

Speaker 17 (35:03):
Promise as you can key.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
Looked away and never gone Every curse still sings its.

Speaker 11 (35:27):
Song Anny Truths and Iron.

Speaker 17 (35:33):
You to Wag goes down the same, change the way.

Speaker 19 (35:47):
So when they break everybow soul contact, he just burn.

Speaker 20 (35:56):
But neever.

Speaker 17 (35:58):
Histor you can't.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Do the.

Speaker 11 (36:13):
Ever go.

Speaker 18 (36:16):
Every curse still says it's all been truth.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Do do it.

Speaker 16 (36:33):
It will sound the same.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Okay. I think my Internet said about enough of that one. Okay,
I don't finish. I don't know what's going on, but
we're still live, so I'm gonna bring us back now,
hang on, he well, we'll just come back. It doesn't matter.
Nothing's working right tonight. Even my stop sharing stuff is gone.
Everything's broken.

Speaker 6 (37:14):
It's all broken.

Speaker 12 (37:16):
You know what.

Speaker 6 (37:16):
It's cursed.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Yeah, okay, yeah, I'm starting to think. Yeah, we're like yeah.

Speaker 6 (37:23):
So it's funny because after I sent you all the
pictures of the curse dolls and ship we're gonna be
doing in this segment, I immediately deleted them off my computer.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Maybe I should have, but I still have to bring it,
bring them up.

Speaker 6 (37:37):
So about that song, when Jeff sent it to me,
it was, uh, I was. I was listening to it
and then right when I was thinking, you know what
would be awesome in this Hayley Ryan Hart from Post
He usually does songs with a postmodern jukebox. And then
the voice came in. I'm like, fuck, we share the
same rain, so because I mean I was thinking this

(37:57):
sounds like a prog rock song that was like covered
by postmodern jukebox. And then and then the voice came
in and like nailed it.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Uh yeah, no, I mean I was actually big in it,
and then all of a sudden it just decided it
was gonna stop playing. So yeah, speaking of woods, from
now on, when you want cursed objects pictures shown, you
showed them, you can do that from here.

Speaker 6 (38:23):
Yeah, okay, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Keeps them on your computers, so I don't know have
to put them in mind.

Speaker 6 (38:28):
I mean it's I just didn't. I can watch all
the Discord service crash because that's where they're hosted on. Yeah,
so just okay. So the thing about dolls, We're gonna
be talking about dolls right now. You know, it's a
few objects you invite more apprehension than dolls because you know,

(38:54):
like swords and jewels, they're not valuable and they're not
dangerous by design. They're a child's toy, you know, they're
design to be a companion for children. And it's that
very innocence when inverted that it becomes a menace. You know,
the dolls staring with its unblinking eyes, surviving generations of
its owners. It kind of takes on a eer equality,

(39:15):
you know, kind of like a surrogate child, but it's
always present and never aging.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
So my mom had a thing for Raggedy and and
Raggedy and you when I was a kid, and I
had the Raggedy Ann and Raggedy Andy toy box, and
I had a couple of the dolls that were always
sitting on top of the toy box. I swear I
had nightmares of the time that those damn things were
coming to life and they're in a strangleman.

Speaker 6 (39:40):
And that's the creepiest And that's you know, when we
get into the real Anabelle, it's just there's something about
him that I don't know what it is. It's like
once you turn a certain age, they just ooze malevolence,
you know, not just I mean and that you know.

(40:00):
It's like my mom collects porcelain dolls, you know, the
full figured ones, but the tiny you know, and some
of them just creep me out. They're just right on
this side of the uncanny valley. You like, they're a
small person, and that says a lot. Well, like the
most famous ones of these, it's the one that everybody

(40:22):
talks about, is Robert the doll. And you know it's
you can find You can find the doll down in
uh forty fort East Martello Museum in Key West. And
Robert was a gift given in the early nineteen hundreds
to a boy named Robert Eugene Otto, and he quickly
gave the doll its name Robert, and strange events started

(40:43):
to follow. Neighbors reported seeing the doll move from window
to window when no one was home, and Jane himself
blamed mischief on Robert well into adulthood. Yeah, there's a
picture of Robert coming up.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Now, why does Robert look like Curry? Is Georgiana Sailor's
kind of.

Speaker 6 (41:02):
Yeah, it's defeat and then in the face. You know,
but you know that the current display, you know, you're
worn to be polite. You know, photographs are only allowed
after asking permission, and the staff report that disrespectful visitors

(41:23):
will often write back with apologies. All those letters you
see on the back behind Robert you know their claims that,
you know, after mocking the doll, they suffered accidents, breakups, illnesses,
and behind that all those letters back there, you know,
they're all apologies and letters of remorse. You know, it's

(41:45):
kind of like made an accidental shrine of confession to
Robert the doll, you know, And why does he inspire
so much fear you One suggestion is that, you know,
people expect consequences and then notice misfortune that falls. They
know they're disrespecting Robert, so any misfortunate that he follows
them afterwards, they tie to it, you know. And then

(42:11):
another one is that you know, with a sailor suit
and the eerily human proportions, again, that doll is right
on the edge of the uncanny valley. He looks almost alive,
but not quite, and that activates, you know, something primorial,
you know, primorial in the brain, you know, just come definitely.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
So the next one on the hip parade, and I
have to admit, I've never paid attention to what pictures
of this doll look like, So I'm working on getting
her on the screen now. But the next one on
the hip parade is Anna Belle, and I have to
admit when I find when I pulled up that picture earlier,
that's what kind of made me remember Raggedy Ann an Andy,

(43:00):
because Annabell looks a lot like Raggedy Ann used to look.
Well yeah, but yeah, well I didn't know that until
I looked at it and I'm like, wait a minute,
that's a raggedy d doll. Yeah, that's that's I don't.
I don't, I don't know. I already had nightmares about

(43:20):
these dolls. Why do you do this to me? Amish?

Speaker 6 (43:23):
Yeah, and you know that's I mean, Anabel. It's become
a popular series. This is again the curse of doing
the show. So much of what we want to do
has been absolutely polluted by Hollywood, you know, and the
Adabell Hollywood, you know, as a porcelain faced villain, you know,
with her face exaggerated into something grotesque. Adabel is just

(43:44):
a raggedy end doll. And it was taken into the
custody of the parent paranormal exec investigators Adam Lorraine Warren
back in the seventies, you know. According to their case notes,
the doll the dolls tormented two nursing students with message
and movements until a medium claim that the that it
housed a demonic presence, you know in the warrens. They

(44:06):
sealed it in this class case and weave it with
a warning positively do not open.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Oh and speaking of pop culture and Hollywood doing what
they always do, Hollywood turned Dnabelle into a porcelain faced villain,
exaggerating her appearance on something grotesque. But the true terror
of the case, why is in the contradiction the rial
annabel looks harmless and looks exactly like a doll I
used to have in my room when I was a kid.
Thanks mom. H the suggestion that something so murderous could

(44:38):
or something so mundane could, how such malice is more
disturbing than any painted frown or sharp toothed grin. And
again thanks Mom? Now maybe I think, maybe now the
nightmares are starting to make more Yeah, the.

Speaker 6 (44:52):
Nightmares are back.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
You know.

Speaker 6 (44:54):
The next one, this one's comes from Japanese folklore and
it's it's the Okiku doll. Yeah. This doll was purchased
in nineteen eighteen for a young girl named Ukiku, and
the doll became her beloved companion until her timely death
or untimely death, and her family kept the dollars memorial,

(45:16):
but soon noticed something strange that do you guys there
it is it's hair kept growing.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
And to this day that's not that's not supposed to
have a friend. Yeah, a dull, dull. Dull's hair doesn't grow.
That's that's not a thing.

Speaker 6 (45:33):
And to this day the doll is kept to the
Meniji Temple and Hokkido and caretakers with Triman's hair which
continues to regrow despite no scientific explanation for it.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
So wait, I just want to make sure that I
heard the right. They're insisting the hair is actually still growing.

Speaker 6 (45:51):
Yes, you know, the hair is an The hair is
an incidental and Japanese tradition, hair care is the spiritual
essence in the the okik doll. You know, if it
is indeed sprouting, human hair becomes not just a toy,
but a living really reliquily of a child's spirit. And

(46:11):
unlike Anabella or Robert, you know, which frightened through malice
or mischief, Oku unsettles because she may be the vessel
of genuine mourning that refuses to end.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Okay, stop the world, I want to get over Dane.
I might be having nightmares by the end of this show.

Speaker 6 (46:36):
This was my idea, this was your idea. You're the
one to picked this one. Yeah, so that's the worst
of it.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Yeah, so well, actually we were doing that sharing the
same brain thinking.

Speaker 6 (46:47):
Yeah, yeah, we both said cursonally.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
And I really should have apparely so. But there's so
the list, it just keeps going. So there's one from
Australia known as the Legend of Letta, the Doll, and
we should have leta popping up on the screen in
just a second.

Speaker 6 (47:08):
Here, yeah, also known as letting me out.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
It's kind of how I feel about this entire shore now.
And I said, was that that was supposed to be
internal monologue. I'm sorry, but no. So this one, this,
this one again you know, is from from Australia. So
I'm still getting the joke letting me out. So this

(47:39):
was found in the in the nineteen seventies by Carrie
Walton beneath an abandoned house. The doll appears to have
been handcarved with unceddenly, unsettlingly life like features. Oh I
can't speak tonight. Waltern reported that people who came near
Letta often burst into tears or suffered fainting fits, as

(47:59):
though the doll admitted an oppressive emotional field despite its
unnerving presence, Walton kept the doll, believing it might carry
or amani curse or spirit. Damn gypsies, damn gypsy gypsies.

Speaker 6 (48:14):
Are as left with gypsies? Fo and mom left me
with the gypsies.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
Well, you know, if it wasn't for the gypsies, you
wouldn't have figured out how to do the t on
a donkey or circle.

Speaker 6 (48:27):
Okay, the next one up, right, I mean the next
one up is Peggy, the doll now owned by paranormal
investigator Jane Harris. This one represents some more modern twists.
It's said that photographs of Peggy are said to cause illness,
chest pains, or migraines among viewers. Harris has collected hundreds

(48:47):
accounts of people who have reported feeling sick after seeing
the doll online. Yeah you unlike the other ones. Yeah,
it doesn't need to be touched or approach, just needs
to be seen.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yeah, and so so hang on, I want to catch
up with the chat for a little bit. One Calvin,
we are Well, I saw that comment. I can't. I
don't know whether I've seen any of the other ones.
This one's kind of data intensive intensive, so we're not
really able to watch the chat very well. But Eric
just brought up an interesting point because I'm wondering what's
doll he was referencing. He said that doll went on

(49:22):
tour and a haunted plantation house burned when it was
in New Orleans. Then the nine one one system crashed
when it arrived in Gettysburg. The guy that was handling
was oh, so yeah, this was Annabelle. Yeah, because the
guy that was handling it was found dead in his
hotel room the next morning. Yeah. Again, this is why

(49:43):
I'm kind of freaking out that my mom had one
of those dolls that looks almost exactly like that in
different clothing in my room.

Speaker 6 (49:49):
Yeah. Yeah, that's really when Hollywood glombed onto that one too.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (49:56):
I mean, you know, the thing with Peggy is that,
you know, she's contagious through the image alone, you know,
and this one's a curse amplified by the Internet age.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Wait say that last part again. Well, we're all looking
at the image.

Speaker 6 (50:14):
Right, You're welcome. I actually thought about not doing it
just to add impact. I mean, you know what, there's
a lot of pictures online.

Speaker 20 (50:24):
So.

Speaker 6 (50:26):
I hate you so many rights true to the craft,
my friend, you gotta ask us a lot. But the
thing is, why do these carry such more, you know,
such unique power compared to the other curse items? Yeah?
Is it the uncanny valley? You know, just our instinct
recoil when something appears almost but not quite human. You're

(50:47):
getting ahead of yourself. I'm turning it off.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
I'm just trying to make sure I was moving into
the right direction. Calm downs are.

Speaker 6 (50:57):
Yeah, it's the glassy eyes, you know, the the fixed smile,
emotionless body. It's they're kind of like a corpse. You know,
toys that imitate children, walk the line between a plaything
and you know, just something else.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Well, I mean it's interesting that you bring up that
they're they're like a corpse, because it's it's almost it
is true. I mean, sometimes when you see a doll
just kind of lying there, motionless, it triggers some of
the same discomfort is seeing your corpse, especially when you
realize one looks just like Annabelle. I'm sorry, I'm going

(51:37):
to be hung up for the rest of the night.

Speaker 6 (51:39):
But you know, on a symbolic level, they represent a
second child too, you know, as their companions, but also replacements,
because you know, the child nurtures the doll as though
what we're alive, but everyone knows it isn't. But this
ambiguous state makes it a fertile ground for stories of
possession and spirit attachment. And uh, you know, the doll

(52:03):
already plays a role of of surrogate life. You know,
it isn't hard to believe that they might actually have one.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
So believe it or not, history does give us examples
of dolls treated with genuine reverence and in some cases
even terror. The ancient Greece dolls called plejone were often
dedicated to goddesses when girls came of age, symbolically transferring
their childhood selves into the divine. In West African traditions,

(52:34):
carb figures were sometimes used in protective rituals embodying ancestors
or spirits. What Westerners might call cursed dolls may simply
be expressions of the same logic toys as spirit containers.
Now there's a thought, yeah, you know the crossover in
the Western fear, it comes that these vessels are divorced
from context. You know, Robert Adabel Kiku, you know there

(52:59):
there they're fright precise you know their frame precisely, because
you know they escape their expected role. Yeah, they're supposed
to be inert, and their refusal remains so destabilizes the
ordinary world. I submit, there's no real such thing as
an ordinary world, and we're kind of slowly figuring that
disagrees whatever Duran Durant can fuck it. So modern media,

(53:28):
as we know, fuels this inversion that we're discussing. The
Annabel movies turn a raggedy ann into a monster because
the real doll's plainness is too subtle for cinema. I disagree.
I think a raggedy and doll trying to kill people
would have been a hell of a lot more scary.

Speaker 6 (53:46):
Yeah, because every you know, everybody of Gen X you
know or are older, you know, had one or knew
someone who did. I was like, I guarantee for you know,
Manchi cheese and everything, Well.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I guarantee you almost every single one of us had
the dream or nightmare about the damn doll trying to
kill this some like, is that something from the acoustic
field trying to warn me? And I didn't know. I
didn't know what can Annibal looked like until tonight, did
I mention, I'm gonna hung up on that.

Speaker 6 (54:19):
That's like when we did the first Mandela Effect episode
with the Lions and the Lamb verse.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Yeah, dude, that My mind was blown for days after that.
After that first Mandela this is this is gonna be
one of those episodes for me saying that's gonna be
one of those episodes for me. But yeah, so you know,
they turned it into a monster because the real doll
was just too plain. Again, I still disagree, but museum

(54:47):
visitors stand before the Relandabell with equal unease because the
case around her implies danger, and because they realized that
probably almost every single one of them had a dollar
look dumbles exactly like it in their rooms as a kid.
So the theatrical exaggeration and is, in my opinion, rather unnecessary.

(55:09):
The knowledge of containment is enough, or is it? Because
containment doesn't always hold it. Just as.

Speaker 6 (55:17):
These creepy ass they they become vessels and repositories for
collective guilt too.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
You know.

Speaker 6 (55:23):
It's like during the Salem witch trials, poppets, which were
small handmade dolls, you know, were cited as evidence of
witchcraft with pins stuck in them to mimic harm, you know,
possessing voodoo dolls. Basically, the possessing one would mean death
by accusition, and in a sense, the dolls were cursed
not by the spirits but by society itself.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Speaking of voodoo dolls, since whoever is as mine in
their position probably is listening to this year right now?
Can you move the pin out of my shoulders? Please think?

Speaker 6 (55:56):
No, that's just part of being over fifty.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
You're the food doll.

Speaker 6 (56:01):
No, it's over anyway.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah, don't harsh, my mellow man. Even skeptics admit that
dolls are effective at creating atmosphere. Paranormal investigators report that
dolls are the most common props used in haunted attractions,
not because they are truly dangerous, but because audiences instinctively
project life into them. A creaking chair may go unnoticed,

(56:26):
but a dolls gaze never does, especially if the dolls
gaze is coming from the aforementioned creaky chair.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
The words.

Speaker 6 (56:33):
The thing I hate the most with dolls are the
blinking ones. You kind of like the cup doll thing,
but they also do it and you know, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah, the one. So my first experience with those was
when and when we would go to my paternal granddad's house.
He always had this cardboard box full of toys that
we could all play with. And one of the dolls
he had in there, because you know, he had granddaughters too,
was one of the one where you laid it down
and his eyes closed. You set it up and its
eyes opened, and there got to a point where only

(57:05):
one of the eyes would open, and it just completely
freaked different.

Speaker 6 (57:07):
That just makes it like, wonder what going up and
what's wrong. That's just pure creepy. But what separates all
these things, you know, from ordinary toys, is really the
the narrative behind them. You know, each of these dolls
has a documented history of strange effects and frightened witnesses

(57:28):
and people dying. You know, whether it's coincidence or curse,
you these stories just weave a net too thick to escape.
You know, you may scoff and I'm not believing them,
but you still hesitate making eye contact with him.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Well, I mean some of us can't help having issues
making around. Yeah, but there is a deeper question that
remains in all of this. Our dolls cursed because spirits
prefer them, or because humans are predisposed to project fear
you're onto them from you. There you go, because the

(58:07):
answer may in fact be both. A doll is already
designed to receive projection of love, of play, of companionship.
The same openness makes it equally capable of receiving fear
and malice.

Speaker 6 (58:20):
Yeah, there's got to be some of those fear cursed
objects of them all, because you know that's it. They're
not you know, weapons, they're not treasures you, they're standings
for us.

Speaker 20 (58:31):
You know.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
It mirrors a child's innocence and twists it into something creepy.
You know, it's there's silence. They remind us that left
that life can be limited but never perfectly you know,
and imitated but never perfectly reproduced. And when that imitation
starts to stare back, refusing to break character, you know
you can't help but wonder what's you know, what's really

(58:54):
in there?

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Often imitated but never do in the building. Oh, I
guess it.

Speaker 6 (59:02):
Just you know, they didn't settle its because not because
they move, but because they might. You know, there's stillness
is accusation enough, but the fact that we can project
that movement into him, like you talked about you you know,
your dream about you know, the raggedy and doll, you know,
and when we're owners report nightmares and illnesses and inexplicable death.

(59:22):
You know, the line between the toy and cursed vessel collapses,
you know, and then it becomes a second child that
never dies.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
So what so what's the what's the over under on
within the next fifty years somebody's elf on a shelf
doll gets proclaimed cursed.

Speaker 6 (59:39):
They already are cursed, making him do kinky ship you do?

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Oh? Come on? The ones in the Barbie hot thubs
are kind of cool. But anyway, all right, believe it
or not, we are at the top of the hour time.

Speaker 6 (59:56):
Because my drink is empty, I need to talk.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Tell mine too, So we are gonna take a break. Well,
there'll be a brief reset while we get things set
up for hour two. This should give you, guys enough
time if you needs you to get up, stretch your legs,
maybe grab a little bit of maybe grab a drink,
smoke a little bit of what helped you think or
both that you're working and I probably wouldn't recommend that.

(01:00:23):
But then again, even if you are, I'm not your
boss and I don't judge, So hang on, I just
realized most of what I'm trying to do isn't gonna
work right now because my internet is being sick.

Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
It's not gonna work, they might hope. Well, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
Rick, there's a workaround. I could. I can make it work.
I just I'm trying to find something specific and it's
not working. You know what, I think We're just gonna
go with this one. This should start relatively mundane enough,

(01:01:01):
and even if it doesn't, it still works as an outro. Well,
be right back, stay tuned, folks. That's not what that's
not mm hmmm, that's not what I was looking for.
I did something else, dude. I'm going to kill you
for making me put these things on my computer. I
can't yet, dude, like absolutely nothing, like even stuff that's

(01:01:24):
normally loaded in certain places isn't where it normally is.
I blame you. That's I blame you. All right, We're
just gonna go to a break because I can't make
music play very well right now because nothing's where it's
supposed to be.

Speaker 6 (01:01:36):
Nothing. I think you cursed my board. Got to remember
that year we did possessions?

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Could you don't even give me? That was like one
of the hart that one, the Yeah that one, and
the Witches one. Those were those were hard. Those were hard,
but we were I'm going to point out this was
my very terrible, no good, horrible. So we'll get hello, friends,

(01:02:08):
we have a moment so that we may discuss our
Lord and Savior Minikey. No, seriously, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 11 (01:02:15):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
My name is Rick Robinson. I am the general manager
of klrnradio dot com. We are probably the largest independent
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(01:02:38):
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You can find us on x under at klr and Radio.
You can find us on our rumble and our YouTube
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(01:02:59):
come check us out anytime you like at KLRN Radio.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
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to The Lost Wanderer, the number one monthly podcast on
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(01:03:33):
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Follow the Lost Wonder wherever you get your podcasts, and
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Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
My God is really really special and I love my
dad Lack. I'm proud of him and that even though
he isn't here with us, but he died as a
true hero.

Speaker 16 (01:04:08):
And much everything about.

Speaker 12 (01:04:09):
Him and the moment that the officers and I had
to come see the children, my biggest reaction was, I
don't have seven arms. I have seven children who just
lost their father, and I don't have seven arms to
wrap around them.

Speaker 13 (01:04:25):
I'm Frank Cla, chairman of the steven Sila Tunnel to
Talis Foundation. Our foundation is committed to delivering mortgage free
homes for Gold Star families and fall and first respond
to families.

Speaker 21 (01:04:36):
To not have to worry financially is a huge peace
of mind. The thought of what in the world will
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possibly let the children have a life that feels normal.
I don't want them to have to quit.

Speaker 8 (01:04:49):
Their piano lessons or their basketball.

Speaker 21 (01:04:51):
I don't want them to feel that we have to
move into a little apartment and struggle financially. In addition
to the emotional weight.

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(01:05:28):
a peace of mind that I can't believe you can
get for eleven dollars a month.

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I'd like to ask you to contribute eleven dollars a
month to support their efforts.

Speaker 13 (01:05:36):
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Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Independent Declaration America was born.

Speaker 15 (01:06:04):
Inspired by a belief in the god given rights of
every human being, that among these are life, liberty, and
the pursuit of happiness. Our government was established to secure
these rights and for the good that comes from exercising them. Well,

(01:06:27):
this is why the founders of our great nation chose independence.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
As do we.

Speaker 15 (01:06:37):
Hillsdale College accepts no government funding because independence makes possible
the good to which we aspire. Hillsdale College pursuing truth
and defending liberty since eighteen forty four.

Speaker 6 (01:07:02):
Ready to learn some medieval combat, kiddo?

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
You bet, dad, Let's do this. You know, spending quality
time with your kids is important, but finding a fun
and safe way to do it can really be a challenge.

Speaker 5 (01:07:29):
Well, this is Jj, the co founder of good pods.
If you haven't heard of it yet, good pods is
like good Reads or Instagram, but for podcasts.

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It's new.

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It's social it's different and it's growing really fast. There
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Pods on the web or download the app Happy Listening,

(01:08:04):
Thanks j Jing.

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Kl RN Radio has advertising rates available. We have rates
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Speaker 8 (01:08:26):
The following program contains course, language and adult themes. Listener
and Discretion is Advice, Cream Man.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Out Side, Government, Shadows, Secretstine, Conspiracy, Suful Well Sleep.

Speaker 9 (01:08:55):
Straight Jobs, Inside Play, Shame, Men Went, Knowledge, Voices, Ball Unleveling,
Mystery Stories, Untold, A Real fifty one, Whispered Me, Beautiful Sights,

(01:09:18):
Haunting Thing, Love, Miss Monster, a Lottering mis Cryptology Injurious Kiff,
Strange Encounter, Sun Explain to.

Speaker 11 (01:09:36):
This out the Bratly Change, Men Went.

Speaker 10 (01:09:40):
Knowledge As Voices fall Over.

Speaker 9 (01:09:43):
Mystery Stories Untold, see takest Believe as your fore answers,
Getting into the Widlight so Logic, SU's Continuous Ana Stage,
Sunny Soundly shame losses. Sorry sont.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Alright, alright, alright, I think we may have beat back
the curses for the next hour or so, not counting
the ones, not counting the ones in what looks to
be broken words bathroom and the dolls that he found
in a storage building. We're not We're not touching either
of those things.

Speaker 6 (01:10:49):
Did you wave some burning stage over your computer and
your internets?

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
I have to get some more stage, but that'll that'll
be done before we start on the first weekend of October.

Speaker 6 (01:10:59):
Trusting me, this year shouldn't be that bad.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Well it shouldn't be, but you know, finding out for
my internet provider that apparently my equipment is pastime for
being replaced when they were just out here working on
it two weeks ago and didn't vot it to tell
me that then after they'd already replaced the equipment a
month before that, with apparently the same thing that they're
telling me needs to be replaced now. Fun times, fun times.

Speaker 6 (01:11:24):
It reminds me last year I got a letter from
my internet saying I needed to upgrade my modem. I
sent a little emailed them back saying, you know, I
bought my own modem three years ago, do I need
to check my bill and see if you've been charging
me for a modem for the last three years, because
they probably that was that was just a blanket letter
we sent out to everybody who ever had that modem.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Mm hmmm mm hmmm. Sure, then you check your bill
in realize you know.

Speaker 6 (01:11:48):
Yeah, well that's okay, that's I'll tell you right now.
If you're even basically computer literate and you're on a
cable modem, just go on Amazon, find yourself one that
works with your cable, your internet provider, and buy one,

(01:12:10):
because they're like two hundred bucks and you're paying that
every year. And I've had this one for five years,
four or five years, so yeah, anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Yeah, unless my internet provider builds theirs into the cost
of my internet, they're not actually charging me for my equipment,
which I thought was kind of weird, but because it
doesn't have a breakdown on my bill anywhere for equipment, so.

Speaker 6 (01:12:37):
Oh it's in there. So curse treasures. And you know,
if dolls carry the dread because they mimic us, then
treasures curses because you for the opposite reason they remind
us of, you know, basically our greed. You know, objects

(01:12:58):
of wealth and splendor and devotion were supposed to elevate us.
But when misfortune, you know, clusters around them, that same
you know, the gilding on it wears off and it
becomes an accusation.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:13:13):
It's not only dangerous, but it mocks the very desire
that brought it into our hands.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Yeah, you know, so one of one of those that
we'll be talking about tonight is I think I have
a picture for that one. I think.

Speaker 6 (01:13:29):
Yeah, the Debic box. This one's brand new. I mean,
as Chris Relics go, this one's new.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
I was gonna say, I didn't think this one was
very very like old.

Speaker 6 (01:13:39):
This this one was originally okay, when you get the
picture up, it's it's just a plain wooden box, you know.
It's it's a wine cabinet of Jewish origin, and it
surfaced around two thousand through an eBay listing. Uh. The

(01:14:00):
seller described how every owner suffered nightmares, illness, and financial ruin,
you know, and the story of his cabinet, you know,
is claimed to be the vessel of Adbik, which is
a Jewish it's a spirit in Jewish folkres The box,
you know, became a pulp culture phenomenon, and you know,
it passed through a series of collectors and til it

(01:14:21):
landed in Zach Baggin's Haunted Museum in Vegas, you know
where it remains under glass now you know it's People
argue that the story is a hoax, noting that even
the original eBay seller admitted that he embellished a bit.
But the curse doesn't die post Malone. He said after
handling the box during a twenty eighteen visit to the museum,

(01:14:45):
in that in a very short series of time, his
plane needed to make an emergency landing, his car was totaled,
and his house was burgalized. I mean, you can just
all call that a coincidence because of who he.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
Is, and you know, or into this object spread a
lot of us.

Speaker 6 (01:15:04):
It is cursed.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
So I I have a question. Zach begins, any relation
to Billo.

Speaker 6 (01:15:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Bibo didn't have any children. I don't
even did proto.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Yeah, maybe there's a distant cousin or something. They decided
to spell the name a little differently when they came
to the States.

Speaker 6 (01:15:27):
I mean, it just seems like this object spreads chaos,
you know, even.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Through Wait, would that make you cursed. You spread chaos.

Speaker 6 (01:15:40):
Yeah, I spread fun chaos. My chaos is you know,
cheeky and benign.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
Our chaos is cheeky and fun anyway. Sorry. Older treasures do, however,
carry longer trails of ruin. The Hope Diamond is an example.
A brilliant blue now housed in the Smithsonian, has been
linked to centuries of misfortune. Wants rumored to be stolen
from a Hindu idol that allegedly cursed its owners with madness, bankruptcy,

(01:16:11):
and death. Jean Baptiste Taviner, a French merchant who acquired it,
supposedly met a grizzly and torn apart by wild dogs.
Later owners included Marie Antoinette and Louis the fourteenth or sixteen. Yeah, Roman,
I have numeral dyslexy, it happens, who both lost their

(01:16:33):
heads by the time it arrived safely in the Smithsonian.
The Hope Diamond's reputation was as brilliant as it's cut.
A jewel that punished creed with apparently major misfortune. Because
these people had some very very very very bad things
happened to them, just you.

Speaker 6 (01:16:52):
Know, just to check I okay, So the Smithsonian acquired
the Hope Diamond in nineteen fifty eight, so I did
some checking to see, you know, what has what happened
with America around it, and there was nothing immediate In
nineteen fifty eight and nineteen fifty nine were pretty bland.
But then you get into the turbulent sixties, which is
kind of echoing. You know, we avoid politics on the

(01:17:14):
show unless it's relevant, but you know, in the sixties
you had the sla you had the weather, underground bombings,
you had you know, all kinds of fucker and shenanigans,
and you know, maybe we're experiencing our own little bit
of cursing because that was after the plastic, fantastic fifties,
and uh yeah, we've been in the worst fucking timeline

(01:17:38):
ever since, except for the eighties so much cocaine and
I mean fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
It's not the worst timeline. They still have Sentimento's crunch.

Speaker 6 (01:17:47):
That's true, you know, that's fair, that's fair, and pumpkin spice,
MILFs magots nice Jeff.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Yeah, we were related to that one because we can't
watched the chat real will because we're doing in lots
of stuff. But it was a good one. Sorry, I'm
actually having.

Speaker 6 (01:18:06):
I'm actually having problems with my chat. I'm not seeing
it on my screen. I see it when it pops
up up in a restream. Yeah, but the most famous
ball is probably toot in Commons curse. You know, when
Carter opened up the Tomb in nineteen twenty two, rumors
spread that a curse has struck anyone who is involved

(01:18:28):
in it. You know, the sudden death of Lord Canarvin
that field. The Frenzy newspapers reported a cobra eating Carter's
canary the day of the opening. Deaths among the excavation
team were chalked up to the curse.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:18:45):
Now they try to attribute it to a coincidence and
exposure to ancient bacteria. But still, I mean, when a
lot of shit happens, you got to kind of take
a pause.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
And go, you know, so, is it bad that every
time you say Carter, I think Eureka, want drink. I
was waiting. I was like, wait, Carter opened the.

Speaker 6 (01:19:10):
Tomb man, Yeah, no, that's right in the fourth season.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Yeah, because actually.

Speaker 6 (01:19:16):
When his sister came to visit, Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
Yeah, I didn't realize some of that happened, Like I
some of that stuff even though I watched that show
a million times, I'm like rearranging it in my head, Cannon,
because I really thought the one of the episodes where
he was stuck in a time loop was like one
of the last ones of the season, and it was
actually one of the first ones in the season. I
thought this happened later. I blame Mandela effect. I'm I'm

(01:19:46):
just damn.

Speaker 6 (01:19:48):
Previously, I accellently hit my knee button.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Anyway, but go ahead, no, no, no, go ahead. You
hadn't thought you were trying to make when you were muted,
so go ahead.

Speaker 6 (01:20:03):
Yeah, no, it just yeah, I was just thinking about
the Conjure chest in Kentucky. Yeah, this one, this one
is lesser known, but yeah. The story behind it is
that it was built by an enslaved craftsman in the
nineteenth century who cursed it with his dying moments, and

(01:20:24):
then over the next one hundred and fifty years, as
many as sixteen deaths of the family who have owned
it have been attributed to the chest. You know, children
who fell ill soon after your clothing was stored in it.
Apparently it goes with you know, when you put your
clothes in it, that's when you become cursed.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
Yeah, and well I hate putting my laundry away, so
I'd probably be safe for a while. But yeah, it
actually really does just look like a regular old chest
to drawer.

Speaker 6 (01:20:52):
Yeah, no, really, when do you think about it? Yeah,
this one's also in the Smithsonian. It's treating as a
historical artifact, but only after generations fear that the object
carried carried death in it. So if you have this
thing and it's sixteen, that's a lot of depths attributed

(01:21:17):
to it. At some point you just got to, you know,
put the note in the top drawer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
No, don't put your socks in here, all right, It's like, yeah, don't, don't, don't, don't,
don't put don't, don't, don't put your stuff in here,
trust me, just don't don't put your stuff in here.
But you know, there's an interesting side note because you know,
we always, you know, have the whole thing of you know,
break a mirror and you get seven years bad luck.

(01:21:46):
But what happens if a mirror actually is in fact
a cursed object, because they too can apparently carry their
own haunting. The one that I'm about to put on
the screen right now is is a mirror from Myrtle's
plantation as soon as I get back to the right spring,
hang on, too many things, too many things. But yeah,

(01:22:10):
so there's a mirror from Myrtle's plantation in Louisiana, A
grand Antebellum home. I mean, I know that's like supposedly
a bad word now for leptist, but we say it
around here anyway. Often called one of America's most haunted,
a large gilded mirror is said to trap the souls
of murdered children there, and they're enslaved. Caretaker Bitter's visitors

(01:22:34):
report such things as handprints appearing inside the glass and
faces staring back from within. Mirrors have long been associated
with spirit and trapman and folklore covered during morning so
souls wouldn't be caught, and this mirror embodies that very poignant,
lingering superstition. Always I always wondered why in certain cultures

(01:22:57):
they covered mirrors during morning, because we never did that,
like kind of now I get it. I guess never actually, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:23:05):
That never occurred to me until you just said that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:08):
Yeah, I never bothered to study it before. But I
know in like Jewish cultures and stuff, they did do
typically cover all their mirrors during the morning.

Speaker 6 (01:23:14):
So yeah, I just figured so you wouldn't see your
ugly cry face kind of what I thought, I know. Yeah, So,
you know what brings all these things together is that,
you know, it's not just their history of misfortune, but
the logic behind it. You know, all these relics, you know,

(01:23:35):
carry a protective malice. You know, you desecrate them and
you suffer stolen wealth, punishes greed by turning it into
disaster objects linked with suffering, you know, like the conjure chest.
You know, they become you know, vessels of unresolved pain. Yeah,
the curse in each case, it kind of functions as

(01:23:56):
a moral enforcement of a you know, I just had
the word I was going to use and it just
left my head.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
But we're just trying to trainer thought the real track one.

Speaker 12 (01:24:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:24:10):
Yeah, it acts kind of like a moral enforcement is
once you once you acknowledge that you have this cursed
item in your possession, I guess it's up to you
on whether you're going to feed the curse or not.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
This is true. So one of the interesting things in
studying this topic is discovering that, you know, cross culturally,
that it is not actually a unique thing like take
in take for an example, in Polynesia, they have topu
objects marked with spiritual restriction that bring harm if mishandled.

(01:24:49):
In Hindu tradition, relics remove from temples without ritual invite
divine wrath. And we've already said I'm sorry what I said.

Speaker 6 (01:24:57):
Like the Hope diamond, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
And even in Christianity, relic theft was whispered to bring
calamity to those who dared profit. The message is consistent,
treasure belongs either to the sacred or to the dead.
Those who transgress pay, and often pay with their lives
and in some cases pay with their heads.

Speaker 6 (01:25:23):
Yeah. You know, the one thing about it is it's
weird how the curse grows louder the more the object circulates.
You know, the Hope diamond is a legend, you know
it balloon does it changed hands across time and continence?

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
You know?

Speaker 6 (01:25:38):
The Dubic Boxes fame, you know, was an internet a
viral story. Hundred chest killed across generations because it never
left the family line. You know, curse treasure doesn't fade
with time, it compounds it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
I just find it interesting that the Doubic Box curse
was amplified by eBay from all places. I'm like, eBay really, So, I.

Speaker 6 (01:26:05):
Mean I always do eBay was cursed, but not the
objects on it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:09):
Well, you know, eventually it becomes that's cursed. Yeah anyway,
but yeah, so skeptic's point to survivorship bias. For every
relic rumor to be cursed, countless others remain harmless. But
this misses the point. Curse treasures stand out precisely because
they refuse to be ordinary. Again, we've talked about this

(01:26:30):
all throughout this episode. These are objects that are supposed
to be inanimate, They're not supposed to do anything, and
yet they invoke and cause visceral reactions and in some cases,
according to bystanders and everyone else, have inflicted death upon people.
So they create patterns too neat, too symmetrical for coincidence

(01:26:51):
to satisfy. And if you guys know me, you know
I'm someone who always says there really is no such
thing as a coincidence. It's just a pattern that we
don't understand yet. A string of deaths in one family,
maybe chance, until the furniture involved is tased and cataloged.

Speaker 6 (01:27:10):
Yeah, it's funny, is that, you know, when you try to. Yeah,
I've always wondered, why don't they just get rid of them,
you know, but you it usually attempts to neutralize the
curves of the backfire. The Whope Diamond was recut and reset,
and still the reputation endured. The Conjure Chest has been
blessed repeatedly, but sixteen debts get it out of the house,

(01:27:35):
you know, baggings, displays of the Dumik box under glass,
but visitors still faint and report oppression.

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:27:41):
Contain containment works, But it's really just kind of symbolic,
you know. It's it's kind of like the velvet rope
in a museum protects the items, you know, or in
this case, protects you from the items. But you know,
that's really just a placebo.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
But in some cases the symbolism may actually be the point.
The museum case, the velvet wrote, the lock, the locked reliquy.
These become the modern equivalent of temple guardians or burial curses.
The object is displayed but also sealed. The curse is
acknowledged but not destroyed. It's performance and protection all at once.
And I think this is probably stemming from the fact

(01:28:18):
that I'm pretty sure that a lot of these items
that you know, they now put in boxes and behind
cases and everything else. How if we dub hard enough,
how many instances would we find of these objects trying
to be destroyed and yet they're still here?

Speaker 6 (01:28:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
Yeah, I.

Speaker 6 (01:28:41):
Was trying to think of a good analogy, you know,
from obviously sci Fi or you know horror, where you
keep burning the damn thing and it just keep Jason
WarHis but no, you just keep burning the damn thing
and it just keeps coming back.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Michael Myers, Michael Myers, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:28:57):
It's.

Speaker 6 (01:28:59):
Yeah, you know, and a lot of these stories, you know,
a lot of these items that we've talked about too,
you know, a lot of the you know, the cursed artifacts.
You know they were stolen under duress, you know, from temples,
from tombs or you know, slavery, you know, the curse.
The curses may not just represent the superstition, but you're

(01:29:21):
kind of like a lingering sense of guilt for the injustice.
You know, to say, the hope diamonds cursed is another
way of saying that it was tainted from the start,
if it was stolen from a temple.

Speaker 1 (01:29:32):
True enough, so for those who own or display these treasures.
The question is not simply whether the curse is in
fact real, but whether they dare test it. Museums often
tread lightly between skepticism and spectacle. The Smithsonian's Hope Diamond
exhibit frames it as legend, but the velvet case and
security guards reinforced its aura. Baggins leans fully into performance,

(01:29:56):
playing the deubic boxes danger for thrills, but still refuse
is to open it again. So in the end, these
curse treasures endure because they embody a paradox. Wealth is
supposed to elevate, but cursed wealth destroys. Relics are supposed
to protect, but cursed relics punish these objects, reveris expectations,
and enforce the moral balance through misfortune.

Speaker 6 (01:30:22):
Yep, I guess the real question remains is, you know,
do these curses protect the sacred or do they expose
our greed? And you know, for those who believe in curse, Trevor,
you know, these treasure service proof of things that were
never meant to be owned, you know, And for skeptics
they still remain curiosities wrapped in coincidence.

Speaker 3 (01:30:44):
But you know.

Speaker 6 (01:30:48):
They hesitate to you know, scoff too, loudly in front
of the Hope diamond case or you know, the dubic
boxes glass. You don't have anybody, you don't have anybody
there going it's a fake.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Well, I mean even well, you know what, why why
do I why Why am I picturing Billy Bill Crystal
and Gilnel Radner in my You're yelling it's a fake anyway, Sorry,
my bad, but no, It's like, you know, the the
legend of Aladdin's Lamp, and you know it was supposed

(01:31:20):
to be, you know, in modern tellings for children, it's
this happy story, but the actual telling is, you know,
by invoking the genie, Aladdin actually woke up a curse
and every wish he made got worse and worse. So
it's kind of the same thing. It's it's it's the
same general idea. But again they they they these curse treasures,

(01:31:43):
they don't just punish greed, They remind us, uh that
value itself. Well, relic memory can become poison when ripped
from its rightful place, and along as as long as
human's covet curse treasures or covet covet treasures, curses will
keep whispering their warnings, fortune comes with a price, and

(01:32:03):
sometimes that price is your life. Don't believe us, Just
ask Marie, Antoinette and Louis the sixteenth.

Speaker 6 (01:32:11):
You know, I was thinking during your you know, when
you when you mentioned Aladdin's Lamp, you're the original story,
not the the disnified one. Yeah, it reminds me back
in the early days of me using GROC. I remember
getting frustrated with Rock and right before I switched over
to GPT. But you know, I remember yelling at yelling,

(01:32:36):
typing at GROCK. I shouldn't have to phrase every question
as a wish from a genie trying to find ways
for you to not curse me and provide me with
the information that I want, you know, and there, you know,
knowledge being valuable. I kind of made it made a
parallel with that because I was having to phrase questions

(01:32:59):
with it for a while. Was right after they upgraded
to three point five. And yeah, it's just you the
joke about you know, making a genie's curse where you
have to think every You're like with a monkey pot.
You have to think of every single possible negative outcome
from every word you say and coach it, you know
in lawyer language, you know, to make it, you know,

(01:33:20):
ironclad yeah or else or else yeah or else? So
all right, well we've excuse me, break again.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
Yeah, we pretty much hit that time again, and since
I couldn't get into work great last time, I'm hoping
that we can actually hear the entire song this time.
So me too, because I did finally give up and
reset stuff. So I'm hoping that gets us through the
rest of the show. Uh oh wow. So yeah, apparently

(01:33:56):
I was having a glitchy thing because now I have
three copies of the song and downloads, and I only
had one a minute ago. So yes, all right, we're
going to break again. Here's the song again for those
of you who didn't catch it the first time. Hopefully
we'll get here all of it before my internet goes
cranky again, but hopefully this will all be fixed by Monday. Anyway,
I was only half joking about this being because of

(01:34:17):
the curse pictures. It's because my internet box needs to
be read. Anyway.

Speaker 6 (01:34:24):
Well, yeah, we do a show on a topic that
can remotely curse us for doing the topic. That's weird.
It's starting to become its own juxtaposition canon.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
We've created our own curse on that note, folks, here's
the new song.

Speaker 11 (01:35:16):
As she.

Speaker 20 (01:35:50):
Chastis shadows were not brown, a spark of bed the

(01:36:18):
road the time you see crips homing.

Speaker 10 (01:36:23):
Out, overrun.

Speaker 11 (01:36:27):
And never going on.

Speaker 17 (01:36:30):
Every curse still sings it sound in.

Speaker 20 (01:36:34):
The trust and irn fla about to like.

Speaker 16 (01:36:39):
Go sound the same, desly.

Speaker 10 (01:37:10):
With frag suld like.

Speaker 9 (01:37:16):
Dreams that.

Speaker 10 (01:37:25):
With a silver smile that cuts to d.

Speaker 17 (01:37:33):
Promise as you can not keep.

Speaker 2 (01:37:51):
Locked away and never heard on. Every car still sees its.

Speaker 20 (01:37:58):
Song Penny truths and iron aflict.

Speaker 22 (01:38:04):
To the waal sound the same, change the wisp when
they break everybow soul contact.

Speaker 19 (01:38:25):
He just burned theever his story you can't be, don't
ever go.

Speaker 18 (01:38:47):
Every curse still says it's song any truth.

Speaker 16 (01:38:52):
And to a sound the same.

Speaker 1 (01:39:33):
I like it, you know, I just realized you guys
couldn't hear me? Could you hear me? I'm so curious. Nope, okay,
because well I was talking at the same time you
were talking, and for a second I thought you heard me.
I'm like, wait a minute, and he can have heard
me because I had a mute to kill the ego anyway,
But yeah, so yeah, I like it, and we made

(01:39:54):
it through the whole thing this time, which makes me
even happier.

Speaker 6 (01:39:56):
That's fantastic. Yeah, No, that's a lot of fun hit
every note. I thought it would any like I say,
if you if you weren't around the last time when
I was listening to it the very very first time,
when Jeff said it to me right before the vocals
kicked in, I'm like, God, that'd be great with Hailey
Ryan Hart, And then the vocals kicked in, I'm like, fuck,

(01:40:18):
we share the same brain. And if you don't know
who she is, go on YouTube and watch a lot
of post modern jukebox She's featured in them.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
Nice. So, Rex, why are we apologizing apologizing to Jesus?
I must have missed something.

Speaker 6 (01:40:34):
Yes, some things don't come up in our chat, especially
if Twitter.

Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
I mean, on nights like this, I apologize to Jesus
a lot because we're talking about things that are gonna
give me nightmares. They'll be baby Jesus, dear six pound
aid o, baby Jesus. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:40:56):
So we've asked this question through the show, and you know,
leading into this the final segment is No, I don't
want to talk to you right now.

Speaker 1 (01:41:08):
Why do you notifications sound like teenage mutant ninja turtles.

Speaker 6 (01:41:13):
I don't know, that's just the default thing when Samsung.

Speaker 1 (01:41:17):
Literally sounds like here is an a half show.

Speaker 6 (01:41:21):
You know now, I'm not gonna be able to not
hear that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
Thank you, You're welcome.

Speaker 6 (01:41:26):
And by the way, who the fuck is texting me
at nine o'clock at night anyway? That's not you or
Vincent Charles.

Speaker 1 (01:41:33):
I'm gonna say, I haven't taketed you yet. My phones
in the other room, so I'm.

Speaker 6 (01:41:38):
Yeah, so maybe it's a booty. No, I don't get
those anymore. So we have to ask ourselves, why don't
if these things kill and mame and drive the owners insane,
why don't we destroy them? And yet, across cultures and centuries,
cursed objects are far more likely to be sealed, display

(01:42:00):
and hidden and destroyed. This kind of a paradox that
reveals a lot about more about us than the items themselves.

Speaker 1 (01:42:09):
Well, I mean, I actually do have a bit of
an answer, so there is actually a practical explanation as
to why these things might not be being destroyed. Of course,
the leading emotion behind it is fear, because there's a
fear of release, and a lot of cultures and in
a lot of the old folklore regarding these items, a
curse tied so matter may not end when the matter

(01:42:29):
is broken. In fact, many traditions warned that destruction only
disperses the curse. Smashing a haunted mirror, for example, is
said to multiply the bad luck in two seven years
per shard. In Japan, a broken doll risks releasing the
spirit within. The fear is not that the curse ends
with destruction, but that it in fact spreads and becomes

(01:42:51):
exponentially worse. How you feel about that one.

Speaker 6 (01:43:00):
We lose the muted, I feel muted. That's how I feel.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
No, I mean, you're right.

Speaker 6 (01:43:05):
It's cultural taboos. You know, they reinforce this hesitation, you know,
the sacred or curse. You know, these objects are marked
with a spiritual weight that's often untouchable. The masonal vase
we're talking about, it's rumored to be buried, not destroyed.

Speaker 2 (01:43:20):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:43:20):
The conjured jests was passed, maybe reluctantly, but never burned.
It was passed on to the next generation, but never
with a note, don't put your damn clothes in it.
Even Robert the doll is feared for his mischief. He's
kept in pristine condition inside the museum case. You know,
we protect what we fear, you know, because altering it
may make things worse.

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
So, I mean, and we talked about this one earlier too.
A Buzby stooped chair in England provides a vivid case
study on exactly what we're talking about. I'm sorry, I
said Busby. I guess it's Busby. I don't know what
you know, what happened. I was thinking of booth Bee
from Star Trek the next Generation in the Gardener. Dude,
I know that's exactly whatever. But anyway, so he was
hanged in seventeen oh two for a murder, but before

(01:44:04):
his before his execution, he cursed his favorite chair, declaring
that anyone who said and it would die. Over the
next century, soldiers, workers and locals who used the chair
were said to meet both swift and violent ends, but
rather than destroyed, the Thirsk Museum mounted it high on
a wall, ensuring no one could sit on it ever again. Containment,

(01:44:28):
not eradication became the solution. I blame elans being yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:44:37):
I mean, the tendency to this just resealed reveals kind
of like a deep seated truth in that you know,
cursed objects thrive on boundaries, you know, like we talked
about four. The rope, the glass case, the wall mount.
You know, these are all symbolic, but it's still the
acknowledgment of the curse. You know, while keeping it at bay,
you know, putting a distance between ourselves and the object.

(01:44:59):
You know, we kind of we transformed the fear into spectacle.
You know, it becomes manageable when it's framed. You know,
it's like if you didn't have that little handrail on
a roller coaster, you'd be less apt to ride one.

Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
This is true. Museums, however, specializing in the paranormal, trade
on this logic. The Warrens, a cult museum once operating
in Connecticut, displayed dozens of cursed items healed in cases,
most famously and a Belle. Visitors could look but not touch,
reassured by the cases warning positively do not open. The

(01:45:35):
thrill was in proximity to danger safe only because someone
else had done the containing. But these, these two discussion
points that we've brought up have led me to another question.
What if because we're so afraid of destroying the objects,
which you know, matter once created, can neither be you know,

(01:45:57):
once in existence can't really be destroyed. So I understand
that so the energy, if there is a cursed energy,
would have to go somewhere, much like you know, once
matter changes form, it's basically a new form of energy,
and it has to go somewhere. But I wonder if
by allowing people to parade by these things, with all

(01:46:18):
the visceral emotional reactions and the fear that gets generated,
are we actually feeding the opposites exactly what they're wanting.

Speaker 6 (01:46:27):
Yeah, I mean we've talked about that when we were
talking about shadow people previously on Juxtaposition, that was kind
of the same thing. Is that, you know, is it
the you know, are are they coming to feed on
our fear? And in this case, are we amplifying the
curse by giving it more?

Speaker 4 (01:46:45):
You know it.

Speaker 6 (01:46:48):
Just you know, thoughts become things. We talked about that
with you know, quantum, the quantum mechanics show, you know,
the basis of reality previously on Juxtaposition, and these these
all these all seem to be tying into each other.
Is that you know, yeah, we may be amplifying it.
We may be you know the next time that it
gets loose, it may be tenfold stronger because we've turned

(01:47:10):
it into a spectacle. You know, It's like, you know,
in Bagging's Haunted Museum, you know, with the DEBC Box.
You know, it's displayed in a steal room. It's hyped
as one of the most dangerous items in the collections.
Visitors are reminded of the post Malone story and his misfortunes,
amplifying its aura, and you know, putting it under glass

(01:47:33):
feeds the relief and neutralizes the immediate danger. But you know,
containment and you know they blur, and they all just
kind of blur into each other.

Speaker 1 (01:47:49):
So again, I know, we keep coming back to these questions.
So why display cursed objects at all? Possibly because they
serve as ritual contained for the collective, not just for individuals.
To stand before. The Hope Diamond's case is to confront
centuries of ruin wrapped in blue brilliants. To tour the

(01:48:10):
Myrtle's plantation mirror is to glimpse trapped faces without touching.
The public. Exhibition becomes a modernized ritual, the museum's case
a reliquy, the placard and incarnation. The ticket line becomes
a pilgrimage.

Speaker 6 (01:48:27):
Yeah, that don't. Yeah, I remember when I was a
kid going to Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum on
the San Francisco Pier, and yeah, I mean it's it
was kind of like a pilgrimage. It was like going
to the HAJJ.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:48:41):
I love that team because that was when Jack Palance
was doing Ripley's Believe It or Not on TV.

Speaker 1 (01:48:46):
Yep, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:48:47):
And so we were in San Francisco. I wanted, you know,
we were going down to Fisherman's Wharf. I wanted to
check it out, and you know, so, yeah, in a way,
it did become like a pilgrimage, you know. And then
you know, just going through all the you know, the
wax figures and the creepy stories and everything. You know,
it's I mean, I guess on a level it would

(01:49:08):
be the same as, you know, a spiritual pilgrimage.

Speaker 1 (01:49:12):
It definitely seems like I mean, I know, I mean,
I have to admit I've never been to like any
type of like weird you know, object museum, but I
have been to some waxworks museums. That that's another thing
that's really damn creepy. So some of that stuff freaked
me out too, so so I kind of get it.
So it's just interesting.

Speaker 6 (01:49:35):
Well, it's like these objects, you know, they're they're treated
like sacred relics and religion. You know, the bones of
sayings are encased in an ornate reliquies, but you know
they're visible and untouched. You know, you peer at them
through glass. The same thing with these items. You know,
you're experiencing on fear simultaneously. You know, cursed objects are
the dark. You know, they're the reflection of that. You know,

(01:49:57):
it's the same in practice, you know, the bones of
the dam rather than the blessed, you know, not for
veneration or for a warning.

Speaker 1 (01:50:06):
Yeah, what what's that sign that's supposed to hang above
the entrance of Hell?

Speaker 6 (01:50:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
Yeah, I kind of feel like where we're going with that.
In some cases, though, the line between relicant cursed object blurs.
A fragment of the true Cross is wholly to believers,
but to its thieves, legend warned of disaster. A diamond
taken from a temple is cursed to its owners, but
revered in its rightful place. What divides sacred from cursed

(01:50:36):
may simply be context protection versus punishment, blessing versus blight.
So again, it's not necessarily the object itself in some
of these cases that is the curse. But it's it's
it's what was your intent when you started handling the
object that leads to the curse.

Speaker 6 (01:50:58):
Yeah, it's kind of like the Crying Boy paintings that
we're going through England in the eighties. I don't know
if you remember those. It shows how the dynamic plays out,
excuse me, especially in mass culture. These mass produced prints,
you know, just of a tearful child were blamed for
a rash of house fires, and in nearly every case
the paintings survived and scathed. You have fueling rumors that

(01:51:20):
had carried fireproof curses, and newspapers amplified the panic, warning readers,
you know, don't destroy the prince. You know, unless you
you know me, your misfortune worsen. And you know, the
public solution was not destruction of them, but by giving
them away, you're paying it forward with a curse. Hey,

(01:51:40):
this burned down my house, good luck.

Speaker 1 (01:51:43):
So the British version of paying it forward was kind
of kingster. You know, actually this burned down my house,
good luck? So modern psychology actually explains this as as
containment vidual. We can't control feed, but we can control
objects by ceiling, displaying, or transferring them. We enact order.

(01:52:05):
The act of containment soothes whether or not the curse
is real. That turns chaos into theater, with the object
as actor and the case as stage. And I mean,
I think that is a lot of it, and I
think that's one of the reasons why people are sore
at least for the longest time. We're drawn to displays

(01:52:26):
of these things because it allows us to peer into
a part of the world that we on some level
still no exist, even if we don't see it every day.
And at the same time, it allows us to feel
safe from it because these things are all behind, you know,
velvet ropes and glass and guards and everything else.

Speaker 6 (01:52:45):
So well, you know, you know, it's a lot like
you know, amusement parks. You know, it's the commodification of fear.
You know, it's part of the process. You have these museums,
you know, they sell tickets because people crave the thrill
of proximity to danger. You know, as we're like owning one,
you're absolutely fucked and it's terrifying but viewing one behind
glass is fun and it's exhilarating. You know, it's that distance,

(01:53:08):
you know, transforms you know, private horror in the entertainment. Yeah,
and well, the skeptical, the unease still lingers. You know
what if the barriers are only symbolic. You know, you
got those letters from people who mocked Robert the Doll
and later begged forgiveness from them. You know that they

(01:53:28):
were rest assured by the glass. You know, Peggy's Peggy's
curse travels through the internet, you know, ignoring containment all together.
So you know, it's these The idea is that these curses,
curses can breach display enforcements and the velvet rope. You know,
the fear is the box is never sealed.

Speaker 1 (01:53:47):
So when we get like eight hundred and seventy five
complaints about everybody being freaked out over Peggy, I'm telling
them to talk to you.

Speaker 6 (01:53:55):
Yeah, just give them my Oh does that not mean
we got tonight in sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
And last time looked, we were about eight something. I'm
pretty sure it's gone up by now.

Speaker 6 (01:54:02):
So that's why I'm figuring out And that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
So failed a chance to destroy cursed items actually reinforce
the idea for containment as the default. Stories abound of
dolls burned only to return intact, of mirrors shattered only
to reappear, whole, of objects discarded only to find their
way back. Whether folklore, exaggeration or psychological projection, the narrative

(01:54:28):
is clear. Cursed objects resist eradication. They must be endured,
not eliminated. And I told you earlier, I wonder how
many if we went and looked, how many of these
items were they did actually attempt to destroy them. And
you know, or you know, drove it three towns over
and dumped it in a landfill. And they come back
and by the time their back of the house, it's
sitting on the porch.

Speaker 6 (01:54:49):
Right, it's right back on the mantle.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
What now, I just dumped you three towns over in
a landfill. But yeah, so pretty sure, pretty sure that's
one of the reasons why they don't really try to
destroy them. That if you ever were really successful, I'd
still have questions about what happens to the cursed energy.

Speaker 6 (01:55:09):
Right, But you know, I understanding durrance that makes some fixtures.
It's the chair, you know, Buzzby's chair, Devic's box, Annabelle,
the Crying Boy paintings. You know, it's all these, you know,
each has been neutralized, not you know, not so much
by destruction, but by turning them into symbols and a spectacle,

(01:55:29):
you know, and they live on his warnings and these
exhibits as curiosities, you know. Yeah, the power is preserved
precisely because it's never broken, you know, But the unease
never fades behind these, you know, if the curses live
in stories, and then telling the story keeps the curse alive.
Every ticket sold, you know, every news article written, every

(01:55:50):
podcast done on them, you know, every whisperd retelling recharges
the object.

Speaker 1 (01:55:55):
He don't blame must for this.

Speaker 6 (01:55:58):
We're just as guilty as everybody else, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:56:01):
Especially you. You're like, let me find some pictures.

Speaker 6 (01:56:06):
Yeah, but you know it doesn't kill the curse that
it just amplifies for a new generation.

Speaker 1 (01:56:12):
Please send all hate mail to So why don't we
destroy cursed objects, because deep down we don't want to.
We need them as proof of mystery, as scapegoats for
terrible things that happen in our lives, as mirrors of
our own unease. They embody the possibility that the world
is not entirely under our control. That possibility both terrifies

(01:56:37):
and reassures in equal measure. But that is why we
need those objects. And in this way, containment becomes complicity.
By placing cursed objects under glass, we don't neutralize them,
we sanctify them. The reliquies of the damned remind us

(01:56:58):
that fear is never destroyed. Only this blade.

Speaker 6 (01:57:04):
See, I'm just thinking about how many topics that we've
covered that you know, this just you know, ties in
with you know, and it's through our arc through this,
you know, from cursed objects and ancient swords and poort,
some dolls and everything. It's just you know, what unite
them all is the refusal to remain ordinary, you know,
the of They should hold flowers, not damn you. You know,

(01:57:31):
dolls should comfort you, not terrorize you. And you know
it's you know, hope. Diamond should dazzle, you know, but
instead we put it in a museum and you know,
make sure look at look upon it with respect. You know,
each of these things became a vessel of dread. You know,
that's just creepy. The power of the mind puts on

(01:57:52):
these things.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
It's craziness, you know, it's craziness and I was a
little off where at like seven sixty that's still not
bad though for not least still don't take it. But anyway, folks,
that's pretty much going to do it for our little
preview of spooky season here on Juxtaposition, soon to be October,

(01:58:17):
because the next time we are with you it will
be October. I don't forget to hang out. Next week,
bump stock Ken is actually doing his first solo production
of front Fort Forensics because I will be performing a
wedding ceremony and they still want to do a show,
so we've been showing him how to do it all
for the last couple of weeks, so he's going to
be working without a net next week, so at least

(01:58:38):
come cheer yourm one. Where can folks find you, Amish one?
Where can folks find you?

Speaker 6 (01:58:45):
Well? Surprisingly still, especially in the last couple of weeks,
you can still find me on Twitter as Ordnance Packard.
Tomorrow I will be on the Vincent Charles Project with
Jeff and Vincent and Janelle Wase and we'll be covering
movie and TVs theme songs and scores. Then Tuesday, I'll

(01:59:06):
be on Manorama with you and Vincent and Steve and
some random Canadian and then.

Speaker 1 (01:59:15):
Or potentially a random temporary Texan.

Speaker 6 (01:59:18):
Yeah or yeah, it displays displays Canadian in Texas and Wednesday,
I'll be back with you on Rick and Orty. So
it's my light week this week. I might actually start
to work with some obs and may want to play
around with restream or stream yard too, so I too
can take over when your internet goblins are fucking with you.

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
That would be awesome.

Speaker 6 (01:59:44):
All right, I'm telling Jeff, I've been wanting to do
it for a month. I've been telling you I've wanted
to do it for five years, so I have both
the time and the inclination.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
You were saying you wanted to learn to produce before
we started this show, and we're headed towards seven years
in April.

Speaker 6 (01:59:58):
Yeah, I know. It goes all the way back to
fu Bar so OK.

Speaker 1 (02:00:02):
Anyway, just just pointing out this. This has been on
your horizon now for a very long time.

Speaker 6 (02:00:09):
Sir, Yes, but now things have been simplified for my
dumb brain to be able to handle them.

Speaker 1 (02:00:14):
Whatever. You're one of the smartest people I know talking
about it.

Speaker 6 (02:00:17):
My my retardation knows no bounds.

Speaker 1 (02:00:22):
Dude, you start talking about glaciation periods, periods and shit,
and my eyes gloss over and I'm a nerd, so
I don't want to hear it, all right, That's fine,
all right, So you can find me tomorrow. I will
not be producing for corn To Mickey is still in
Britain and also still working on getting things laned out
for a new Hollywood project that he's been going to
be working on. So once I know, you'll know. He's

(02:00:45):
supposed to touch base with me when he gets back
on the stage, which I think is supposed to be
sometime this week. Monday night, though, we will be doing
an America Off the Rails at is ten pm Eastern
Tuesday night, the aforementioned Manorama, where I'll be hanging out
with the Amish one, VC and Steve and probably at
least a couple of random Canadians and well potentially a
displaced one living in Texas for the moment, and uh

(02:01:08):
then Wednesday night full vote for all that. Just check
the schedule because there's a lot. Tuesday through Fridays they
do the Rick Robinson Show that starts at ten am
Eastern time, runs for two hours most of the time
but on Fridays we do an extended edition, so we
do a news round up with some folks from Twitchy,
Townhall or anybody else that wants to come hang out
for the hour and talk about their favorite works of
the week.

Speaker 6 (02:01:28):
And uh.

Speaker 1 (02:01:29):
Then next Saturday, I will not be here because I'll
be performing a wedding, So other than.

Speaker 6 (02:01:34):
That, you will not be there either because it's our
off week.

Speaker 1 (02:01:37):
But other than that, you can find me as a
contributor to our contributor on twitchy dot com, is fitspolitics
dot com, the Loftsparty dot com, and I also produce
a Lofts of Party podcast which drops on Tuesdays. You
can follow along with the work we do here on
the network s last station at Kalar and radio in
pretty much on pretty much every platform, and you can
find me at Riday Rick seventy three. But on that note, folks,
that's pretty much it. We're going to get out of here,

(02:02:00):
enjoy the rest of your Saturday night. For those of
you that have just crossed over into Sunday morning territory,
thank you so much for hanging out with us. All
much lives even further in the past than I do,
so for him, it's only like nine o'clock, two minutes after.
To be precise, you and your precision. Bye, everybody, enjoy

(02:02:22):
no hailing of the hydro. We've had this discussion.

Speaker 4 (02:02:26):
Dream Man ginger Tesera out of side, Government shadows Secristine