Jux 07-26-25 The Shadow People Deep Dive That Almost Wasn't

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Y coming to see you.

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Speaker 9 (03:45):
The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listener
and Discretion is.

Speaker 10 (03:52):
Advised, Dream Big, Full and Role out of side, Government shadows,
Secretstie conspiracy.

Speaker 11 (04:12):
And full Wes straight encounters.

Speaker 10 (04:16):
I explain to this out that really shame.

Speaker 11 (04:21):
Then my knowledge voice is ball unleveling history story untold.

Speaker 12 (04:29):
It is fifty one Wisperna, beautiful sight, ins, haunting flame, love.

Speaker 11 (04:42):
This Monster, alteringness, cryptos wanty Injurious Kiff straight Encounters.

Speaker 13 (04:54):
I explain to this out that really shame.

Speaker 11 (04:59):
Then when boxes fall, Love mystery stories untold, San takes
out to believes your forunces, heading to its widlight so
logic SU's continuu son stage him count the sun. Explain

(05:24):
to this help that bridly Shae. Then when those foxes
fall love love and mystery stories untold.

Speaker 14 (05:35):
Truth, this help.

Speaker 15 (05:38):
True, this out.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Good Saturday evening, and welcome into juxtaposition our fora into
the weird the unusual, he'll explain. And usually at least
than every two weeks for a However, it's been a month,
because it's been a hell of a month for me.
So we're here anyway, we're back, We're live. The mothership
is fully restored. I'm Rick Robinson. He's ordered its j

(06:14):
Packard And again this is juxtaposition. How you doing, man,
How you doing? Sorry? I just realized I hadn't pulled
you forward yet either, So any good.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
It's man, it's been a minute since we did the show, right,
I haven't talked about this one for a while. I mean,
I did all this.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
We were gonna try, we were gonna we were gonna
try to do it around you know, Ron's anniversary, because
you know, this was one of his favorite topics, and
then it's just nothing worked. And then then then for
a couple of weeks, literally nothing worked. So yeah, so
it's this one. This one's been in the works for
a while. But the good news is this also means

(06:54):
we've both had a lot of time to kind of
go into it and look through it and go over
it and YadA YadA. So it should be. It should
be one of our better shows, I hope, although I
have to admit I am pretty exhausted still, so I'm
hoping my energy level still translates because I'm like, I'm
not putting it off for another week. I'm just not
gonna do it. I'm going to power through it. But
I'm like, I'm so damn tired though, I'm just now

(07:14):
this isn't this. Last night was my second night being
able to sleep in my bed like fifteen days and
my body is just like can we go climb back
in there again? Please? Can we can?

Speaker 16 (07:22):
We?

Speaker 4 (07:22):
Can?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
We can?

Speaker 11 (07:23):
We?

Speaker 4 (07:24):
So yeah, fun time snucking up, butter Cup.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Exactly, I'm showing my body whose boss. Sometimes it works,
sometimes it doesn't. Well you sound good right now, so
you know, but yeah, so but yeah, so yeah, I
don't know. I was trying to make a joke and
I lost it, So I'm just gonna shut up.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Now, that's all right. So yeah, we had originally wanted
to do this. Okay, So for those of you who
weren't around or you know, haven't been you know, following
the network for a while, one of our original chat
do people he was like yeah, sometimes he would be

(08:09):
the only one in the chat back when we had
the old calor and chat, and he would always push us,
like like Rick was talking about tonight, if we didn't
feel like doing a show or whatever, he would be like,
get your ass on the air right now. And it
was in no smart small part because of him, that
chat actually grew because he was always in there engaging,
and you know, so then more people would keep coming back. Hell,

(08:31):
even I you know, even though I was on shows
and listen to them from time to time, I didn't
really engage in the chat unless I was on a show.
And then you know, I started showing up in chat
all the time too, even when they weren't my shows.
And then, uh, all of a sudden, I live in
the calor and chat now too, even when I'm not
doing a show. So he passed away a few years ago,

(08:54):
and he was on our original Shadow People episode when
we first covered this topic. So we wanted to do
it on the anniversary of his passing as an inmarmum
for in anyway, I'm gonna be doing really good on
the show right now when mister Tongue and mister Lips
are not working together. So yeah, so we we had

(09:17):
originally wanted to do it that and then God hates Rick,
So I mean this is that. Yeah, it is known.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
It is now canonized. Yeah, although the irony is he
hates me, but he keeps me alive. I don't. I don't.
I don't get that part because I have been through
so many things where everybody's like, I don't know how
you're still here, and this this was another one because
I was monkeying in the damn panel when it blew right,

(09:54):
and I told everybody what happened, and even my dad,
who's a little electrician, was like, I to you just
enough to be dangerous and I don't know how to
hear still alive. Don't do that again.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
So but yeah, that's yeah. But you're back, We're back,
We're here.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
I think I think I've used up eight of my
nine lives. So everybody needs to like bubble at me
now or something.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
Because yeah, that's probably for the best. Yeah. Oh so
showing people, yes, what are shadow people? I think it's
the best to start with what to tell you, how

(10:41):
to explain shadow people to you, then by telling you
what they are not, and well, basically shadow people. They're
not ghosts and at least the way most cultures define
the spirits of the dead. They don't act like disincarnates.
They're not you know, there's no message from beyond, there's

(11:04):
no voices in the dark, there's no reenactments of you know,
past events. They simply just appear. They don't appear to
be there to finish unresolved business. They're aware and intentional
and just observing. Now, moving on from that, they are

(11:24):
not extraterrestrials. There's no vehicles, no abduction scenario, no communicators. Yeah,
no probings. They don't show curiosity or experimentation or you know,
any form of examination. They're not like, they don't seem
to be seeking any kind of like biological samples or

(11:45):
anything like that. They're just watching, which brings us to
the next thing. They don't fit the profile of demons,
at least not in any need to find uh, outside
in religious dogma or outside of it. Uh. There's no temptation,
no possession. They don't demand, threaten, or deceive. They just watch.

(12:12):
And while there's some reports of some inconsistencies where prayer
drives them away, others say that they it does nothing.
So and it's this absence of what they are that
makes it most disturbing. Is you know, they're not trying
to manipulate us and they're not trying to be anything.
They're just there.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
It's kind of scary when you think about it. But yeah,
it's like the funny thing is I think I think
kind of what piqued my interest with shadow people was
not only because Rom was always talking about but this
was like back when doctor who was in its heyday,
and there was that episode, I think it was a
Tenant episode where they were like starting to see bleed
throughs from another reality and that made me think of
shadow people too. But yeah, so, but I don't know,

(13:01):
but I mean, yeah, so there's there's just so many
things that are going and the funny the funny thing,
you know, because there's shadows, it's like there's always this
thing of you can't really prove a negative, but the
only way you can describe what they are is in fact,
by describing what they are not, so in fact you
are kind of sort of trying to prove a negative,
which is a little weird when do you think about it.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
But yeah, you know, it's like the main description of
shadow people is the impossible blackness of them. They're you know,
they're described as darker than dark. They absorb light rather
than reflect it, even in pitch black rooms. Their form
remains visible and it's like a standing shadow, but it

(13:41):
has mass, you know.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Yeah. Well, another thing that I think bears mentioning is
the fact that their encounters actually span a wide range
of both ages and cultures. Children have reported them frequently,
often long before in countering stories online. Adults report them
during periods of especially stress, transition, or illness, but not always.

(14:08):
Some see them during moments of total normalcy.

Speaker 4 (14:12):
What what?

Speaker 1 (14:13):
So I have one question, though, what the hell is
total moments normally?

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Yeah? When Yeah, once I experience that, I can give.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
You the yeah. I mean there's even some folks that
are like, yeah, they just come chill out while I'm
like doing dishes and folding laundry and ship I'm like why,
but okay. They also other folks have actually described repeated
visitations that escalate in emotional intensity over time. So, and

(14:43):
then there are different categories.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, those are the interesting. Yeah, it's it's interesting that
you know, it's as it's broken down the three main
categories of them, they're all very different. Well, two of
them are kind of similar, but it's they're almost universal.
And the first one in that you've got the uh,
the hat man, and that's the most iconic and consistent

(15:06):
one of them. And it's always a male form, tall
and always wearing a wide brimmed hat like as Amish.
Sometimes they're in a trench coat, and you know, sometimes
it's just an outline with no visible arms or anythink
it's just a stick with a hat, but the hat
is always there. Typically they appear in doorways or you know,

(15:29):
at the foot of beds, and their arrival is often
preceded by a feeling of dread or pressure or electricity
in the air. Some reports say that he'll lean in
closer as he appears, as if like testing how close
he can get before something breaks.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
It's like, how close can I get this time? And Mario,
thank you. That's kind of what we're going for. So
that was actually probably the best compliment you could have
paid us.

Speaker 4 (15:59):
Yeah, we've all always moundeled this. We were always very
clear when we were talking about doing the show that
we want to do it coast to Coast am Art
Bell's style, not.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
George Nori because yeah, yeah, well on that and you know.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
One of the things that you know, and we've talked
about this, One of the things I always appreciate about
Art Bell is when he would have a guest owner,
he would be talking about the topic. And this is
kind of how we approach the show. Is we treated
as if it's real. Whether what we believe or anything
else is irrelevant to the topic. I mean, a lot
of them will creep us out, but we give the
topic the respect that is Jews. And that's what I

(16:32):
always thought about Art Bell. He would have the craziest
dude call in on his you know, you know, wild
card line and treat every word that they were saying
as if it was the absolute truth. So thank you.
That's quite the compliment.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
So the next one as far as the categories, and
I always kind of I'm like, why are the hat
man and the cloaked figure different, because I'm like, would
the guy with a hat also be wearing like could
cloak ur coat? But anyway, they share much more with
in common with that man, but without is distinctive silhouette.
These beings appear as robed or hooded shadows, often seen

(17:13):
in groups. Witnesses report them standing side by side like sentinels.
They are most frequently observed in hospital rooms during illness
or during out of body experiences. Some say they sense
deliberation in the way the cloaked ones distribute themselves around
a room. So I have my own figure with these figure,

(17:36):
my own theory with these cloaked ones, I think people
are seeing reapers.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
Well, and that's with the cloaked ones too, Is that okay?
Like with the hat man. It's always solitary, but with
the cloaked figures, there's always more than one. I think
that's the real distinction between aside from not having the
silhouette of the hat, it's that they appear in groups.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
So dude, everybody, everybody knows the hat. The hat dudes
are like the almost version of shadow people. That's that's right,
that's what's going on.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Yeah, and now the last one, and this is one
I could almost with a level of positivity feel I
think I have experienced. And that's the crawlers in the
In difference to the hat man and the UH and
the coach figure, the crawlers actually move. They don't just

(18:30):
stand there silently. They move fast, jarringly, and often on
all fours. They'll scuttle along the floors, walls, and ceilings.

Speaker 11 (18:40):
UH.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
They'll appear gaunt and emaciated, uh, contorted, even a little
bit like an insect. It's the that's what makes them
most terrifying, because they're moving with even though their effects
are the same, they're present. And that's the you know,

(19:02):
peripheral vision. Out of the corner of your eye, you
saw something scurrying kind of shadow person and they're they're
kind of the most horrific and yeah, they feel almost
predatory in a way, but even though there is no

(19:23):
harm done.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, I think this is where the the the inspiration
for the shadows came from Bebylon five.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Okay, yeah that or you know what I when I
think of when I think of that is in the
movie Legion the demons. Yeah, when they were when they
were assaulting the diet. Yeah, that that's kind of how
I you know, if you were to put them into
a flesh and flesh and bone mode and that would
be it.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
So the interesting thing about all the stuff, with everything
that we've talked about so far, they're actually historical records
that support some of these things. There aren't. They are
few and far between, but they do exist. So one
example is in eighteen eighty nine, a physician in Vienna
documented nocturnal apparitions of perfect human silhouettes experienced by war veterans.

(20:21):
Dismissed this psychological residue. In nineteen forty one, during the
London Blitz, a man reported a shadow in Humberg in
a Humburg hat, standing silently in the rubble near a
bombed hospital. In each case, the entity did not interact,
only observed, so they like to watch.

Speaker 4 (20:44):
Yeah, and you know, that's the common theme with all
of these is that, and you know, and that's what
wins them all together into this, you know, into the
subgroup of you know, paranormal or whatever you want to
call it, is that they don't interact, they don't speak,
they don't vanish until they decide it's time. They don't

(21:09):
respond to physicality. You know, they'll walk through walls. They
seem to exist on the floor just by their own will.
You know, It's like you always get the impression that
they could just sink right through if they wanted to,
or shoot right up if they wanted to. So it's
the fact that they're on your level plane is just

(21:31):
how they want it. But in every instance the effect
is not physical, but it's an existential crisis and it
causes not only people to what they saw, but why
they were seen. And the whole purpose of the presence

(21:52):
is really partly a lot of the creepiness of them,
I mean, aside from there just being a shadow for
them in your presence that you know, defies everything you
understan about reality, but also the fact that it's just
there there that's it.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Well, I've always and this is one of the points
that I remembered drawn making was when he did when
we did one of the first Shadow People episodes, is
with the shadow presence and the fact that they were
kind of there but not there. He pointed out that
one of the things that he'd often wondered if they
were maybe actually somehow peering in through an alternate reality

(22:29):
and checking things out or something. I've always that part's
always kind of intrigued me because that's kind of what
it reminds me of. Because remember, there was an episode
of Star Trek, the original series where they encountered us
one of their sister ships that had been pulled partially
into another dimension, and then Captain Kirk, who was visited,

(22:50):
was trying to figure out what was going on with
the ship was pulled because it came back over phased
into the other dimension, and for the rest of the episode,
people were just kind of seeing him out of the
corner of their eye here and there until McCoy figured
out what was going on and they figured how to
bring them back over. So when people first started talking
to me about Shadow People, that was kind of the
one of the first things I thought of. I was like, well,
you know, this has kind of been documented in science

(23:11):
fiction before, So what if it is in fact? If
because with everything that we're starting to understand, with want
and physics and everything else, if there are in fact
realities where anything that we have ever decided to do,
there's an infinite number of alternate realities where different choices
were made. What if some people are peering in to go, hey,
I wonder if they haven't any better over here so

(23:32):
we can come take over or something. I don't know.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Yeah, I mean to put the sci fi trumpet, but
I mean that's that's solid.

Speaker 13 (23:43):
Huh.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
So what I did?

Speaker 1 (23:46):
I see what you did?

Speaker 4 (23:47):
Yeah. So it's just this is of all the topics
that we cover, this is one of that kind of
creeps me out the most because it it's the one
that just it feels like it has no place in
our world, you know, everything else you can kind of
see how it fits into our world, how it fits

(24:07):
into our universe, how it fits into our realm of
you know, physicality. This one just or how it did.
I mean, even when you're talking about ghosts or demons,
they were at one point part of the whole where
these just seem more alien to it than the aliens,
because at least the aliens imply that they are somewhere

(24:28):
in our galaxy, in our universe, you know, in our bubble.
These are completely outside of it, and it's that alienism
that makes them even creepier.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Well yeah, so, I mean with the theory that I
was just bringing up that this is actually one of
the reason I was bringing it up is because it
actually is one of the more prominent shadow people's theories.
Is you know, because in the opening we talked about
how they're not actually you know, extra terrestrial or anything
like that, but if they are in fact interdimensional entities,

(24:59):
then they would be They wouldn't be supernatural or even extraterrestrial.
They would be extra natural beings because techniquely their native
realm would be elsewhere.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
So that's a great word for it.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
But yeah, so, I mean, so again, the model of
the shadow people that are not necessarily supernatural, but they
would be considered of this theory is the one the
one that you that you find the most accurate. They
would be considered extra natural beings because again, their native
realm exists alongside ours and again just out of phase
kind of like what I was talking about a moment ago.

(25:37):
The idea borrows from quantum mechanics, suggesting that multiple realities
can occupy the same space, but it's slightly different frequencies.
Shadow people then might be glimpsing are glimpses of entities
who are who are fully real but not fully here,
their forms only barely intersecting with our dimension. And again
it seems like it's either because they're if this is

(26:00):
the if this is if this is what they are,
then it would lead our lend credence to the idea
that they're either trying to see how life is over here,
or that they're surveilling us for some reason. And we'll
be getting into that too here in the second.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
So, actually, because this is such a big block, you
want to take a break real quick, and then we'll
we'll come back and hit you know, the interneveational bleed
through and time echoes.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
And all the others worried about them. Yeah, I've got
a queued up.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
We can go ahead and do that.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Besides, that gives me a chance I didn't get a
chance to get one. All right, musical interlude for those
of you that are new here, we'll be back in
a few minutes. Stay tuned, mind you have the.

Speaker 17 (27:06):
Morning after dreams of distant signs.

Speaker 14 (27:12):
Well self over me like the sun hull the blinds,
look me up, get me out, keep me walking, but
never shout on the secret close.

Speaker 9 (27:28):
I hear you say.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
You know the way it goes about.

Speaker 17 (27:37):
It takes you him and spit you out. It's but
you out when you decide him up your eyes to follow.
If you must began with miss staves as you to me?

Speaker 1 (27:54):
Who the heart.

Speaker 17 (27:55):
Switched the face?

Speaker 4 (27:58):
Look what seems?

Speaker 6 (28:00):
Don't please on it doorscording like.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
A de wind.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Zero.

Speaker 14 (28:24):
I will walk what color thick can break the thin?

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Don't self break.

Speaker 17 (28:31):
Don't momently with all the doubts of crystal flee, crushing
hard into the secret wink. You know the way its
wiland turns, change in color, spinning yards.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
You know the way if the if you dry, it
cuts you a wild fat, takes your hide.

Speaker 4 (28:59):
You know the way it is me just go is
your money?

Speaker 13 (29:04):
Is it called?

Speaker 15 (29:06):
Do you know the way it goes about?

Speaker 17 (29:10):
It's like your illness that you.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Cut you.

Speaker 17 (30:10):
You know the way it goes about, it that you
him and spit you woud it spit you woud when.

Speaker 15 (30:19):
You descive conga.

Speaker 17 (30:22):
It don't be your eyes follow you must be the
districts that you do me the heart switched up face,
look over.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
I seen out of place.

Speaker 17 (30:49):
She was.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Way and welcome back, and ladies and gentlemen to juxtaposition again.

(31:54):
This is our fore end of the weird, the unusually unexplainable.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
We usually start to do it about every two weeks.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
Live on Saturday nights, usually right after your Front Porch
Forensics and kicking off at ten pm Eastern, run until
midnight Eastern. I'm rick, he's already, we're back and we've
been discussing shadow people.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yeah, real quick about that song Cuts You Up by
Peter Murphy. Ever since I first heard it, because I
was listening to Art Bell about the same time, and
it's that that song always felt to me like something
he would have used as a bumper going into break.
So once we started doing this show, I'm like, finally
I get to live that dream somehow. Yeah. So, I

(32:36):
mean it's just eerie and dark wave enough that it
kind of fits with the whole motif. You know, not
in every topic we cover on the show, but and
stuff like this, it's got that etherol other world we
feel to it. So yeah, that's why I said play it,
play it. So But going back to what we were

(32:57):
talking about before the break, you were talking about out
interdimensional bleed through and you know, quantum Chize and I
know you and Nemic have been talking quite a bit
about string theory and that too on on his show,
and you know it's with the multiple world theory and

(33:18):
multiple universe theory, and you know, we're sometimes you know,
the membrane slips a little bit and the two universe
universes are able to interact in some form, and you
know that would actually kind of explain a lot of
the nuances in their details too. Uh. Sometimes they have

(33:40):
like a flickering what's that or the lack of detail
or the lack of details. Lack of detail. Yeah, it's
not like they have like full resolution. But even with
their non he kind of they're kind of like a
black hole in a you know, in a a in shape.

(34:02):
They still do have some quirks. It's like there's been
there's been reports of flickering appearances, you know, kind of
like they're glitching, blinking in and out. They're indifference to
the physical boundaries like I talked about in the last
in the last break, you know, physicality doesn't matter. Walls, floors,

(34:23):
you know whatever. They appear to vanish, uh sometimes and
then pop in in another part of the room. But
they never actually move like you like there was motion.
It's always skipping, you know, it's kind of like a
record skip. And you know, with this theory, that may
explain why there's no interaction in the bleed through, you know,

(34:48):
explaining their silence and their lack of ability to affect
the physical world. If they are out of phase or
in you know, from another dimension, then the rules of
physical they may not apply to them. And you know,
maybe we're not even supposed to see them, but our
brains that we don't understand, only catch a glimpse where

(35:10):
this thin veil slips. And usually when they're seen is
you know, either during sleep or trauma or during altered states.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You know, and.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
We'll be talking about in a later segment. Two. Uh,
the drug use the drugs that people will use in
order to see them, and uh yeah, so I mean
that you just get into an alternate enough state that
you can perceive what would generally be imperceptible. Well, mine's

(35:44):
a weird thing. It can fill holes where you know.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
I was also thinking, you know, their silence could be
explained another way. They may in fact be the silence.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, that was.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
You know, the one thing that pissed me off about that.
I mean, that was a great arc in Doctor Who,
but it left no room for them to ever make
a reappearance.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
That was one.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah. The weird thing is it was like one of
the longest running arcs they've ever done, and then it
was just that was it. I was like, we put
all this time and ever into it and it was
a one shot. I'm like, that's but again, you know,
at least they can't overdo them like they did the
Dials and yeah, over and over.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Yeah, and the Siren. But I mean, yeah, that was
a hell of an arc though, and the payoff was fantastic.
So yeah, I mean, it's worth never being able to
see them again because when we did see him, it
was so damn good. So another theory offshoot of the
idea is the time echo hypothesis, and this is where
shadow people they're not beings from another realm, but reflecttions

(37:00):
of people from our reality, either future observers or past
imprints or even diversion selves, you know. And this goes
with a theory that they recently posited that time is
also three dimensional. You know, there isn't just forward and
backward moving time, but time can also move laterally and

(37:21):
in the sense, you know, giving it a three D
space it moves along. It can move along all three
axises and excess depending upon where you're from. But it
suggests that time is linear but layered, and occasionally we
can perceive overlaps.

Speaker 17 (37:40):
You know.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
It's like, could it be that they're distant descendants conducting surveillance,
parallel self breaking through, or just some psychic fossil. In
quantum gravity theory, the past informs the future, and the
future informs the past.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
It's just because I occasionally have dreams that come through
doesn't mean you have to call me a fossil.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Sir. Oh wait, yes, you talk about and I am.
You know I wasn't talking about you, and you're younger
than I am, so but I yeah, in emergency, in
quantum emergence theory and e uh time, the future does
inform the past. So that's a lot to get into that.
I could do a whole other show.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
But yeah, and so I mean, we do need to
do a Timey wine We do need to do a
Timey Whiney episode sometimes soon with all these theories.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
So yeah, with all these new theories about time, I
mean not just talking about time travelers, but time itself.
There's a whole lot of new theories in uh in
theoretical physics that about time that are fascinating.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
In between the quantum entanglement theories that are and these
are things they've talked about for forever, but now they're
starting to be able to prove them. And now the
idea that time could in fact be layered, which in
case you're not exactly sure what that means, that means
every moment of your life is technically happening simultaneutaneously in stack,
one on top of the other, So there are different

(39:10):
parts of you that are experiencing time at the same
time you are, which is another reason why they're saying
some of these bleed throughs could be either past cells
or future cells going hey, how you doing, good to
see you.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
And also in emergence theory, you know, with the way
that they describe it is that time is like a
film strip where you're just looking at this individual slice
the moment and then moving on to the next one.
And you're like, well, that would just remove I mean
that that would enforce predetermination theory. But it actually doesn't

(39:45):
because in the time being bilateral the future informing the past,
it collapses down all pasts that don't lead to the
future that was eventually resolved.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
So you calling time bilateral makes it sound like a hope.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
Yeah, it is a hoe. But we got you know,
we did, we got off topic here. So with the uh,
with the times echo hypothesis. Uh, this one gains traction
from reports of shadow people exhibiting curiosity or surprise at
being seen.

Speaker 13 (40:21):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
Sometimes the figure seems slightly startled that it's being observed
while doing the you know observing, you know, kind of
like the brochure said, oh yeah, no, go ahead and
go check that out that they won't see they won't
notice you. And but this is this leads to the
surveillance hypothesis, where shadow people aren't just passive entities but

(40:44):
active monitors, and their static posture while watching behavior, their
avoidance with direct contact all suggests intelligence and purpose. But
to what purpose is the question?

Speaker 1 (40:59):
So yeah, but in this framework, there akin to ultra
dimensional drones or scouts. You're sent to monitor yet not interfere.
For those of you wondering where what we mean by
this thing, Prime director from Star Trek, But who were
they sent by? Theories range from future human civilizations to
unknown interdimensional collectives. Others suggest artificial intelligences projecting observational forms

(41:28):
into our space, using human shapes as camouflage, the hat,
the cloak, the human outline. They could be masks, simple
non threatening shapes designed to blend in. But the effect
is the opposite, uncanny, terrifying, and too familiar to dismiss.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
Yeah, the behavioral pattern is consistent and disconcerting to say
the least. The laways apparent night, they'll apparent liminals faces.
They are always in doorways, hallways, bedroom corners. Again like
we've talked about, they never speak, They just watch. They
move when you blink, kind of like you know, the

(42:11):
uh the Weeping Angels to use another doctor who reference
and then they vanish when you really really notice them
or confront them. And yeah, all the suggestion, you know,
they don't need to act of it. They're there. You know,

(42:33):
we've talked about they're not predators. They they're witnesses.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
But but so is it mirored is the fact that
you know they're they're like totally passive and just kind
of wink out of existence when somebody notices them or
looks directly at them. Does does does that not creep
you out a little bit? Because it would me. I mean,
I will admit I don't think I've ever seen the
shadow person. The closest I've ever gotten is the orb
experience I was telling you about when I was a kid,

(42:59):
that we always was his spirit in my house. So
I don't think I've I don't think I've ever seen
a shadow person that I can remember. But if I
if I was seeing something like out of the corner
of my eye and I turned to face it and
all of a sudden it freaked out and just blinked out,
that would freak me out, dude.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Well and nothing. You know, when I talked about my
experience with a crawler is I when I was going
to college in San Diego, I was in this one
apartment notion side, and there was this one corner of
my living room and it was the upper corner, you
kind of like where the two walls meet. And then
at the ceiling and peripherally that's where I would always

(43:37):
see it. You know. It's like i'd be going to
the refriger, I'd be going to the kitchen for something.
I wouldn't see it when I was sitting there watching
TV or something because this was in the living room,
you know, or you know, just having people over whatever.
But it was always when I was just focused on nothing,
you know, just like I'm going to the kitchen for something,
or I'm going out the front door for something, and
that's where I would always see it, you know it.
And then you know, when I look over in the corner,

(43:59):
then obviously there's nothing there. But I always felt it's
like when i'd be coming down the hallway into the
living room, I would feel that just a little different,
you know, It's like you know, and then it built
up over time where I would start to Okay, you know,
I'm I'm going to look into that corner and just
head this off at the pass, you know kind of thing.

(44:21):
So you know, it's like I'd come out the hallway
and then immediately look at that corner. So that way,
I didn't have that skin crawling feeling when I was
doing whatever it was, I was gonna, Oh I had
intended to do.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah, it's probably a good thing. I've never had an
experience with those things because I have had some things
in my life that have totally creeped me out. So
that would make that a try effect at this point,
and I'd be like, I'm done, I'm done, I'm ready
to go home. I'm done.

Speaker 4 (44:51):
Yeah, well yeah, well, and you know some of the
cases with these two. You know, there was one case
in Brazil where a man who saw a hat figure
every night for two weeks and it was always standing
just outside his window, even when he you know, moved
changed hotels and would be miles away from the last
one he was at. And the way he described it

(45:11):
was a reflection that forgot what mirror it belonged to.
And that is the creepiest description I could possibly think of.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
So my first function is or any of these added
figures ever smoking? Asking for a friend?

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Yeah, last tag cancer man. Yeah, but you know, and
he said that, you know, the figure never tried to
enter and it didn't need to, you know it He
described that it was the consistency of it was the
message that I can be anywhere and you can't do
a thing about it. Right, But so this one in

(45:50):
not like in a malevolent way, just uh you know,
I yeah, I'm everywhere. It's like visa or you know,
it's everywhere you want to be.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Well, yeah, it's it's the shadow people version of anything
you can do, I can do better.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
So this next one, though, this isn't my stomping girls.
This one intrigued me. When I saw this one.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
I thought of you when I put when I built
this into a.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
In the research, So this had this one. This was
reported in rural Oklahoma. A man working a night shift
on an oil field describes seeing a human sized shadow
walk across a gravel lot. His truck headlights passed through it.
Moments later, his truck stalled. When it restarted, the onboard

(46:40):
clock had reset to twelve am. The man didn't report
the incident for weeks, fearing it would sound like a hallucination,
but two co workers later admitted dates seeing the same
guy in a coat out by the derek on a
different night, always just standing there.

Speaker 5 (47:00):
See.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
And you know the fact that it's a hallucination, doesn't
you know, it's not incompatible with the shadow person theory.
You know, it's because it's like maybe possibly you are
just this is a mental imprint, you know, and that's
you know, where they're not. They're not actually in our world.

(47:23):
They're in our head. In our world, you know, it's
you know, in the head camera that's our eyes. They
could be in that part of the brain that you
know that shows up where you're looking at that corner
of your living room.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
You know, Well, one of the things. And I'm gonna
have to do some digging to see if I can
find out. I'm curious if we can kind of figure
out when the time frames were for these appearances and
see if there was anything weird going on other than
that around the time, like where they're like mask the events, explosions,
bad things happening, because if they are observing, there has

(48:01):
to be a reason they're observing, unless it's somehow happening
by accident.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
Well and that's yeah, and that gets into something that
we talked about later too, as you know, what are
they actually observing because they usually appear you know, during
you know, we talked about NDEs or you know, not
necessarily yours, but somebody's and uh, you know, the variables
always seem to coalesce around events that don't seem like

(48:30):
events at the time, either there's a tragic event or
an event that like it doesn't seem important to you
because you're just going to go get you know, a
glass of milk and a score bar or something. But
that was the start of a chain of events that
led to something significant in your life, which leads to
the uh, you know, the the future progeny. Coming back

(48:50):
to see this moment, you know is because as everything
plays out, as you live your life, every moment has
some effect. You have the butterfly effect, so you know,
it could have been, you know, is something like you
just slept wrong and had a kink in your neck,
and because of that kink in your neck, you almost
ran somebody off the road because you couldn't turn your head,

(49:10):
and that person and blah blah blah down the road
to a thermal nuclear exchange or whatever. So you know,
it's yeah, so it's what are they actually observing? But
another case, you know, with these is there was a
report of the sixteen year old in Sweden recounted seeing
a shadowy figure in the hallway every time her family argued,

(49:33):
and at first she thought it was just her father's
silhouette being cast by the hallway lamp. But at least
one occasion, you know, when the house was dark, the
figure still appeared darker than dark, unmoving, and even if
she approached it, it didn't move until there was almost
a physical what would have been physical contact, then it disappeared.

Speaker 17 (49:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Again, once they see you coming, they run away. I'm
telling you there's anyfery what's.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Going on here? We which again I mean that speaks
to it not being demonic or spiritual, because the spirit
won't you know, we've talked about several times on the
show when we're we've been talking about ghosts, is that
you can just walk right through it and it'll still
be doing whatever it wants to do. And being demonic,

(50:26):
it would react in some way to you about interacting it,
interact with it. So again it just gets back to
the fact that what these are not is what makes
them so super creepy.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
So this next one's kind of weird, and I gotta
say I would have been reaching for something else, but
this this is a report from a woman in reykievic Lince.
She awoke at two forty three in the morning to
find a tall figure standing in the hallway outside of
her bedroom. At that point, she reached for her phone
to take a photo. I would have been reaching for
my shotgun. The image showed nothing, however, but the reflection

(51:04):
on the TV screen behind her the figure was clearly visible.
She said she could see her own sleeping form on
the screen and the figure standing behind her staring.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Now, that one gave me chills because it implies that
she took a picture with her phone and the reflection
on the TV showed her still sleeping.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
That's kind of what I thought.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
That just gave me chills from the back of my
neck down to my pelvic floor.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Oh, I just I don't know, dude, tall tall dudes
standing in Nope, I'd have been reaching for something besides
the phone. I mean, I'm not going to tell you
what I'd be reaching for because I lost them in
a tragic voting accident. But I'd be reaching for something now.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
This next one, also, This next story is also creepy too.
It's about a teenage point Indiana who saw a shadowy
figure standing behind his closet door night after night, but
only when he stared in the mirror across the room,
like he would look in the mirror, and then he
would see his shadowy figure standing in his closet, and
when he finally opened the closet fully, there was nothing there.

(52:16):
But from that point forward, the mirror began to reflect
incorrect angles, showing windows that didn't exist, the second floor
that wasn't real, his parents, And when his parents replaced
the mirror, all the sidings stopped.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Uh through the looking glass anyone?

Speaker 10 (52:36):
Right?

Speaker 4 (52:36):
Yeah, that's yeah. Now we're into ST one territory drink
with the quantum mirror?

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Oh is it? Well? I mean, since you did already
do the SG one lug, we might as well remind
everybody Tomorrow night, seven pm Eastern Corn's Reading Room right here,
lie gallery, see what I did there? All right?

Speaker 4 (52:56):
And right after we get the triumphant return of Las
Wanderer coming back. Yeah, some of that space, guys, we're
doing math again on Sundays.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
No math, I forgot. I signed a waiver. He's allowed
to do math on Sundays.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (53:16):
See, some people believe that, you know, the presence escalates
around decision points, and this is what I was just
talking about to critical fork in the person's life path,
divorce anddes childbirth, incarceration, religious conversion or deconversion. One theory
post pauses that the hat man appears during a conscious divergence,

(53:39):
moments where reality splits into parallel branches, and his presence
might be the market to monitor that fork. It's like
you're being watched because something you do matters across dimensions.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Done dune, Dune.

Speaker 4 (53:57):
All right, let's just see, you know, I mean, when
you're laying and you make the decision, you know what,
I just can't live like this anymore. I'm gonna, you know,
pick up everything and move to wherever, you know. And well,
that was a thought in the middle of the night
that that it's that moment of that thought that changes
your entire life trajectory and everybody who interacts with you
after that moment.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
All right, so we've we've got one more, well with
We've got at least one more of these than that
I know is in our notes and we haven't touched
on it yet. So in this one, this one's from Osaka, Japan.
So if you if you thought these were, you know,
relegated to certain parts on the globe, they seem to
be happening pretty much all over. So in Osaka, Japan,

(54:42):
a woman undergoing chemotherapy, began seeing a total of three,
count them, three cooked figures standing side by side near
her ivy po Nurses reported seeing absolutely nothing unusual, but
over the next two months, three patients in her wing
died each on night. She claimed he figures turned away. Well,

(55:04):
I said, the hooded figures kind of reminded me of Reavers.

Speaker 4 (55:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this one I wanted to get
you too before we went to break because, uh, what
does a marror reflect if there isn't anything there that's
that's too deep for me right now? As MD in
the chat, Uh, this one last one was a h
comes from a retired comp in Phoenix.

Speaker 13 (55:29):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
He reported seeing a recurring nighttime figure in his doorway
where the hat man wide brim hat, and after setting
up a camera, he captured a still frame that showed
an outline of himself, hat and all standing in the
same spot, despite his being in bed. He claims to
have deleted the footage because he didn't want to know

(55:51):
if it was him.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Mmmm. That's interesting.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
So yeah, it makes it now now, you know, putting
that into context, maybe the you know, the wide brim
hat is how we are visualizing some effect in the
other wherever this is going on, where you have some
contraption on your head or you know, the way some
energy would like break around you from the head down

(56:18):
and at that point where it's you know, splitting out
to drop down around the form that when we see
it it looks like a white brim hat.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
Well, and the other thing is and I mean, granted,
I understand why the guy might be a little freaked out,
but at the same time, if we are in fact
talking about you know, quantum reality bleed through, it would
stand to reason that there may be a version of
himself in the other universe trying to peek in to
see what's going on with the version of himself in
this one. So just because he saw himself doesn't mean

(56:48):
it was exactly himself, right, not that it helps him
because he's done. He's like, nope, I'm deleted it. I
don't even care, I don't even want to know anymore.
I'm out. I gotta admit I think I might have
I might have considered doing the same thing, not even
going to pretend.

Speaker 4 (57:05):
Yeah, I would have noped right out of that. I
would have just yeah, that's the one thing is that
you yeah, with these two theories in regards to shadow people.
One of the things that isn't consistent with all stories,
but it is consistent with a lot of them, is
technological glitches when they appear. You know, like you had
talked about the the Oklahoma story where the clock in

(57:28):
the truck would always you know, reset to twelve twelve o'clock.
You know, people talk about phones dying, clops, clock stopping,
static interruptions of television. Yeah, the repetition in these things
with the with the EM interference that that leads to,
you know it it is, you know, some mechanical intrusion.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
You know, some sounds like there's technology. There's technology at work,
because there wouldn't be interruptions.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
Yeah, thinking about that, there's a one spot when I
when I have to travel up to Nevada, there's this
one spot in this one town and there's no reason
for it. There's no tall buildings or anything. But when
I drive past it, my satellite radio goes out. And
this is the only spot I lose satellite radio. And
there's no reason for it because the buildings aren't over

(58:19):
two stories tall.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
So no lost time or anything when you drive through there.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
No, No, I'm still in I'm still in traffic when
I drive past this place. It's just weird, is I know?
I had to go up there earlier this week, and
I just I noticed it that uh god, that happens
at this spot every time.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
I just thought, maybe our programming director volunteered you distribute
or something.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
Well, that could be too And you know there are
reports that you know, his people becoming rapidly. You know,
we talked about that one extra solar object that went
shooting through our solar system a couple of years ago.
You have the long potato. This one's coming through it
three times that speech.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Yep, and again same person who positive the last time
this might actually be a spacecraft. Watch out, y'all. I
do find it interesting that at the same time that
our program with Richer gets outed as a resident Alien observer,
the show Resident Aliens being canceled.

Speaker 4 (59:20):
Yes, well that's because plausible deniability.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
Pointing that out. It's sad, I do. I know it's
a campy show, but I love that show. I'm happy.
I'm happy at least got four seasons, but I wanted
to go.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
We'll not Roiser if we have time. After this, I
figured out why Dark Matter got canceled. We can talk
about that at the end of the show. To save
it for Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
Well, we'll see, depends on how I feel. Yeah, But
speaking of we have hit that point, ladies and gentlemen,
we do need to take a break because we are
at top of the hour. Top of the hour. We
do play at least a little bit of commercials, so
don't don't take that much offense. But we'll be back
here in just a minute or so, a couple of minutes.

(01:00:06):
I'm Rick, he's already. This is a juxtaposition. Our one
is in the books, our two coming on the other side,
and we will see you on the other side. Unless
we get taken out by shadow people before we come back.
You never know what could happen. Be right back, hello, friends,

(01:00:35):
we have a moment so that we may discuss our
Lord and Savior minarchy us our Lord and Savior minarchy. No, seriously,
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 10 (01:00:50):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
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Now?

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Our blades are great.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Each razor has stainless steel blades in alvir lubricating strip
and a pivot heead. It's so gentle a toddler could
use it. And do you like spending twenty dollars a
month on brand name razors? Nineteen go to Roger Federer.
I'm good at tennis?

Speaker 5 (01:02:52):
And do you think your razor needs a vibrating handle,
a flashlight, a backscratcher and ten blades. Your handsome ass
Grandfi had one blade and polio.

Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Looking good, Papa.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Stop paying for shave take you don't need.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
And stop forgetting to buy your blades every month, Alejandra
and I are going to ship them right to you.
We're not just selling razors, We're also making new jobs. Alejandra,
what were you doing last month? What are you doing now?
I'm no Vanderbilt, but this train makes hey. Just stop

(01:03:27):
forgetting to buy your blades every month and start deciding
where you're going to stack all those dollar bills. I'm
saving you.

Speaker 5 (01:03:32):
We are Dollar Shave Club dot Com and the party
is on.

Speaker 10 (01:03:43):
M to see you.

Speaker 7 (01:03:54):
Hi everyone, This is JJ, the co founder of good Pods.

Speaker 8 (01:03:57):
If you haven't heard of it yet, Good Pods is
like good Reads or Instagram, but for podcasts. It's new,
it's social, it's different, and it's growing really fast. There
are more than two million podcasts and we know that
it is impossible to figure out what to listen to
on good pods. You follow your friends and podcasters to
see what they like. That is the number one way

(01:04:19):
to discover new shows and episodes. You can find good
Pods on the web or download the app Happy Listening.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
Thanks JJ.

Speaker 9 (01:04:27):
The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listener
and Discretion is advised.

Speaker 13 (01:04:36):
Dream Gamers.

Speaker 12 (01:04:45):
Out Side Government Shadows, Secretstine conspiracies on Fold Westen.

Speaker 11 (01:04:55):
Saying jobs in Size Flay.

Speaker 15 (01:05:00):
That really shame Men went No Choice?

Speaker 11 (01:05:04):
Is Ball Unleveling, mystery stories untold.

Speaker 12 (01:05:11):
In Real fifty one, Whispered Me, Beautiful, Sighting, Spunting.

Speaker 11 (01:05:20):
Tha Love, Miss Monster, a Watering Myss, Cryptoso Logy Injurious Kiff,
Strange encounters that explain to this ol that really change
Men went Knowledge as voices fall on the leveling.

Speaker 15 (01:05:44):
Mystery stories untold.

Speaker 11 (01:05:48):
Sees, takes out, believes your fore answers into that's whylight,
so logic such continues.

Speaker 13 (01:06:03):
Johnson sonnes.

Speaker 15 (01:06:06):
This sound sat.

Speaker 6 (01:06:12):
Mystery, Sorry sontul.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
And Welcome back in Ladies and Gentlemen. Hour two of
Juxtaposition is now underway, and we actually do have a
special surprise for the interlude because I was gonna use
it as the open till everyone last how long it was,
I was like, I think I was gonna play this
for the break instead, because our resident alien who's secretly
trying to kill us all made us a cool song too, So.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Yeah, he does. He was every now and then he'll say, hey,
what's the topic this week, and then he'll throw together
a song for the show for one of the breaks,
and like couple hours it's it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Dude is very dude. He's so artistic. I I I
admire him and hate him at the same time, because
dude can like use computers to draw amazing stuff. Now
he's like making really cool songs using it. And I'm
just like, I make I feel like sometimes I feel
like you remember when you first started doing food bar
and all you were like, I'm just here making for noises.

(01:07:24):
That's how what Jeff makes me feel.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
Well. The song that we use for our intro at
the bottom top of Yeah every Hour, he made that too.
He made that for us when he first started playing
with the stuff, and it's it'll catch in my head.
I'll be driving then you know, a couple of a
couple of the hooks will pop right into my head
while I'm driving. I'll be like, where do I know that?
Oh right?

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
So yeah, dude, it happens to me all the time.
I'll be like sitting there, I'll be like watching something
like truth is out there. God damn it anyway, But yeah,
it's not.

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
One of your mind that gets stuck.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Well, actually, after about the twentieth and thirtieth time it's happened,
I have gotten frustrated about it a couple of times,
but then I'm like, eh, nevermind, go back to head
mobbing again. All right. So our two is officially underway,
and I guess we'll move into another leading theory regarding
shadow people. This one that's This one kind of scared

(01:08:22):
me a little bit to say.

Speaker 4 (01:08:25):
Yeah, this is the one where they're using the fear
as fuel. You know, it's and they're using that to
manifest themselves into our plane. And you know also it's
you know, is it a feedback loop. But the main
one of the main theories in this is that the

(01:08:45):
shadow people are actually psychic parasites, non physical entities that
feed on our fear are confusion and our trauma. This
parasitic model, they're like consciousness predators. It's not just about watching,
but while they're watching and they're siphoning, because you're aware
of them and your reaction to them is their fuel.

(01:09:08):
In a lot of cases, they will provoke intense dread
and an existential crisis, but they don't do physical harm.
You know, we've covered that where they just stand there
and that's what makes them creepy. And you know, it's
just like the way that you know, a lot of
parasites will draw blood without killing. These entities provoked just

(01:09:32):
enough terror to nourish themselves without alerting others.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
It's kind of scary when you think about it.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
Yeah. Yeah. This is this ties into the liminal state hypothesis,
where it's the idea that they appear during threshold moments
sleep paralysis, NDEs or d MT trips or even pst
ps PTSD episodes, and you know they're not hallucinating, they're
gateways and it's moments where the mind's defenses are lowered

(01:10:05):
and perception expands, especially on a DMT trip. Ask me
how I know? Uh, And that's when you'll see these
people will see in this half state of consciousness, your
body is frozen, but the mind is awake. And you know,
witnesses will often see that's when the figures are the

(01:10:26):
closest to them, you know, watching and looming over them.
You know, that invokes the primal fear and the sweep
paralysis or the PTSD that amplifies it, and it becomes
a loop. And you know it's to see the entity,
feel the fear, feed the entity, you know, see it

(01:10:47):
more clearly. It is resolution sharpens a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Yeah. So along this line, there's one man who described
an actual dream where a black silhouette leaned over him
and simply said that's enough, before vanishing. He woke up
with blood under his nose and a heart rate of
one hundred and thirty beats per minute. His smartwatch recorded
the spike at three fourteen am, and he hadn't moved.

(01:11:17):
So this opens up a question that a lot of
people are starting to ask based on this theory, is
are we creating them by seeing them? The acts of
naming or the active naming has power. And this is
something else that Corn and I have been talking about later,
the fact that names actually have power and countless traditions
naming something gives it form. Children see Bogeyman, under beds,

(01:11:41):
adults sea shadow figures. These differences may be only linguistic.
Some researchers propose a psychogenic theory that belief and repetition
manifest these entities into a shared reality, a sort of
reverse placebo effect. Expectation creates experience. The more people were

(01:12:02):
reward seeing hat Man, the more people see hat Man.

Speaker 10 (01:12:09):
Yeah, you know, and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
Belief isn't passive, you know, in this model, it acts
as a beacon that draws them in, you know, like
a broadcast power for attention from them. You know, they
exist slightly out of phase and during these moments of
trauma or you know, these altered states. It's kind of like,
you know, when I was putting this together, I was
reading this is kind of like you know, when Frodo

(01:12:32):
would put on the ring, you know, and suddenly the
dark Riders had resolution. Yeah no, and uh, you know,
so it's that, you know, shadow people might be drawn
out of the fixation of them, you know, as awareness
itself was an invitation.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
My precious. So another interesting story, So, a Gulf War
veteran in Mississippi reported seeing the same black humanoid form
every time he experienced the PTSD flashback. The shadow would
stand in the same spot in the corner of his kitchen, motionless.

(01:13:13):
After each episode, the air would feel thick, and light
bulbs near the figure would burn out. His VA therapist
suggested that it might be emotional projection, but the figure
continued appearing even before flashbacks hit.

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
So that's interesting is that was the appearance feeding the flashback.
You know, it's like, okay, I know, this guy's a
tasting more soul. So as the approach of the shadow
person that would trigger the event that would trigger the PTSD, which.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Was kind of like, well, well, this ties into another
thing because in this theory, this would explain why because
remember earlier we were talking about how you know, it
would be like, you know, somebody would be sleeping in
a bed they would wake up see the shadow person,
shadow person would disappear. They'd go back to sleep after
they freaked out, shadow person would come back, be just

(01:14:10):
a little bit closer. They'd wake up, freak out again,
shadow person would disappear. So this, this would explain the
escalation of things and the reason why after we after
we do see them, they keep coming back and they
keep trying to see just how close they can get
before you know, their supply gets cut off again. So
this to me would explain some of the escalation kind

(01:14:33):
of thing they have going on with it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
Yeah, an escalation of dread. You know, it's like the
way these encounters sound, you know, the way that was
describing and my experience as well, Uh, it never felt
like a natural fear. You know, it felt like it
was I guess injective would be the word, and you know,
it was like something was turning a dial in you.

(01:14:57):
And you know it's not that the intensity of proportional
to the threat because they're just standing there, but it's
a primal fear and it's paralyzing. You know. It's kind
of like you know, when you're driving and that scroll
that was trying to make it across the road suddenly freezes. Yeah,
you know, instead of continuing on to safety.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
There could be a reason that it's a primal fear too,
though on an instinctual level. Think about this from another perspective.
If these things are what this theory is purporting them
to be, there is a good chance that they have
been feeding off of us for as long as we
have existed. So there could be some sort of a
primal reaction to these things based on you know, I mean,

(01:15:40):
you know we do. We are now starting to understand
that some things, as far as certain things, are passed
down through genetics. So I'm wondering how many of our
primal fears are fed through genetic coding. So if these
people have been feeding off of us for as long
as we think, or as long as we're starting to
believe they may have, maybe that's why we have such
a primal instant to just get the funk away from

(01:16:01):
me thing every time we see them.

Speaker 4 (01:16:04):
Or there were a past threat that you know no
longer has its uh, you know, the teeth as it were,
you know, to to inflict the damage. You know that
they're just they're just an echo of them of you know,
what they were, but in our like talking like you're
talking about through our genetic memory or the Akasha field,
we we recognize the threat and you know, it's from

(01:16:27):
the time we were in the trees that this was
you know, this was a predator and so yeah, and
that's you know, and you know, one of the interesting
things on this topic is that, you know, you talked
about how you know, children have the Boogeyman, children recount
stories of shadow people before they've had access to the
internet to learn about shadow people. You know, I mean

(01:16:48):
not just like you know, since I mean, these stories
go back, you know, pretty far back in time. But
also there's always been that fear of something in the closet,
something under my bed, something you know that you know,
and that's not like trained into them, you know, because
it's I don't ever remember my parents ever telling me
about the monster under the bed, but I always knew it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:11):
Was there, right that dude, I remember that when I
was a kid, did you usually under the bed for monsters?
And my parents never scared me with that kind of stuff.
They were always reading me like doctors Who's books and
stuff before bedtime. So where did the whole idea of
a monster under my bed even come from?

Speaker 4 (01:17:28):
Yeah? And I didn't have other siblings to train it.

Speaker 5 (01:17:30):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
It's even in my peer group, you know, and my
friends when I was a kid, that was still kind
of a that was a universal thing. It's like we
all discovered it at the same time, you know, It's
like we had all just read a book in school
about it. But obviously that's not something you know whatever,
you know, not back then anyway, right, So, but it's

(01:17:51):
just one of those universal like you mentioned the Akasha field.
It's just one of those universally known things, and it's
something that carries with us through our whole life. We
will always try to ask morphize something. You know, it's
the jacket over the chair is a shadow person, you know.
But also one, where does that come from? And two

(01:18:11):
why does it still resonate?

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
Why does it freak us out so much? I mean
that goes back you know the story that I was
telling you that it because me. I mean, all my
friends were older than me. In the house that I
that I grew up in. My parents bought it when
I was three, So the I had one friend next
door who was about the same age as me, and
then everybody else that I hung out with was at
least three or four years older. So there was one time,
and I think it was right before my parents divorced,

(01:18:35):
and it was summer that I was allowed to stay
out past the port the street lights coming on. For
those of you of our age group, you know what
I mean. And so we were standing around and they
were telling ghose stories and shit, and I just after
about fifteen twenty minutes is like, okay, that's enough. So
as I'm going back to my house, that's when all
of a sudden, the hair on the back of my
neck stands up. The closer the closer I get to

(01:18:56):
my porch, it's like, all of a sudden, my feet
feel like I'm wearing some minchhit and it's hard to
take each step, and the hair on the back of
my neck is standing up, and it's like, I swear,
if this was a scene from a movie, you would
see something probably trying to reach for me from the
shadows right as I shut the door, because that's exactly
what it felt like in my mind's eye. Because I
couldn't understand why it felt like it was taking me

(01:19:17):
forever to get to the porch. I was freaking out
because the hair on the back of my neck was
physically standing up, and it all stopped like the second
I shut the door. So that's the kind of primal
fear that I'm talking about. I think that's some of
the things these people are going through. And the next
example is a pretty eerie one when you think about it,
because we've talked about these people kind of being kind
of passive, this one not so much so. This one

(01:19:40):
is a woman in Georgia. She began journaling her encounters
with a recurring shadow man. Over time, the figure began
to change, began to gain definition, got braver, started approaching more,
got closer and closer to the bed, eventually crouching beside her.
It freaked her out so much she moved apartments. It

(01:20:00):
followed when she moved, she tried to burn steeds to
get rid of the damn thing. It watched her from
the hallway. It never touched her, it didn't need to.
The fear became constant, and she began to deteriorate emotionally.
So this wasn't a haunting, but it was by all
accounts of harvest of her fear.

Speaker 4 (01:20:23):
Yeah, and that's I mean, this is one of those
rare that's one of those rare cases where it's almost malevolent. Yeah,
And so we've talked about how passive they are, you know,
and just being there. But this one, you know, and
like you know, the one in brazila I was talking

(01:20:45):
about earlier, going from hotel room to hotel room and
always just being outside. You know that it's it's more
of a you know, it wants to be seen so
that way it can feel feed the fear even more. Yeah,
It's kind of like a you know, when you're super
dehydrated and you just got a pound water. It's like, okay.

(01:21:05):
So going with the theory that if they're feeding on
psychic trauma, then how long has it been since this
one is fed? You know, because I mean that just
sounds like, you know, no fuck's given. Am I'm going
all in because I need some meat. I am fucking starving,
you know, right. Yeah, And this one from Montana, four

(01:21:32):
year old girl began waking up screaming about the man
who wears the dark.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:21:37):
The child described him as not having a mouth and
saying all the time. The child eventually began drawing the
figure over and over and it was always the same pose,
facing her bed, arms down, hat low and her pediatrician
recommended a sleep study, and during one test, the hospital
camera captured her sitting up, staring at the wall and saying,

(01:21:59):
He's not just a dream. So it these stories, Yeah,
I put them in because they're they're listed to shadow people,
but these actually seem a bit more demonic in there. Yeah,
but it does fall under the but when it comes

(01:22:20):
to psychic feeding site, and you know, there may be
a wide variety of types of shadow people too, and
these are just the ones, you know, you know the
psychic parasites that you know, well, these are touch more malevolent.

Speaker 1 (01:22:36):
Well I kind of have a parallel kind of theory,
same vein, but this, you know, because I've been up
until recently rewatching Supernatural. I did finally make it all
the way through again. There there's some bottles in that
last season, but whatever. But one of the things that
they talk about is for the spirits. When when the
episodes when they were dealing with spirits these and trust me,

(01:22:58):
there's an explanation of this, I promise, but it was,
you know, the longer they're there, the crazier they become,
and the more malevolent they've become. So I'm wondering if
what's happening is if some of these shadow people that
are starting to not just feed off the fear, but
causing the fear because they know they can feed off

(01:23:20):
of it. If they've just been making these trips longer
and they have reached the point where it's no folks
given because I like how this tastes and I'm going
to do whatever I have to do to get it.
Maybe that's where the malevolence is coming from. Is these
are people that have been you know, wherever they come from.
They've been making this jump for so long that they
just don't care anymore. They're there for one reason. They've

(01:23:42):
got to get their fixed. I mean, could this could
be this could be their version of myth for all
we know, they could think of what we're willing to
do for myth for people that are hooked on it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:52):
So yeah, but I mean not all leads to a
darker idea. You know the fact that we attract them,
and you know, our pain and our trauma is a signal.
You know, it acts like a lure for a trout.
You know, it draws the attention of something hungry. You know,
it's like you know, the report of the man who

(01:24:13):
lost his son and was visited by the hat Man
for six months, and it was only after intense grief
counseling that the that the visits stopped. You know, it's
stuff like that that you know, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
You do, do you know?

Speaker 4 (01:24:30):
Are we drawing them in?

Speaker 13 (01:24:32):
You know what?

Speaker 4 (01:24:33):
You know, whether when we think we got our ship together,
but are we pulling pulling them in with our own trauma,
you know, our own drama.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
I mean it could be. I mean, so there's another
one kind of I noticed one of the other little
notes that was thrown in here. So another woman actually
reported crawler activity during opiate withdraw and they stopped showing
up after she'd become more and more sober. So I mean,
if it is in fact our trauma moments that are
attracting them, then the trauma would probably take care of it.

(01:25:03):
But in some of these cases, I mean, they're latching
onto folks with PTSD and other things that we're just
now really starting to understand. So I think for those
for those folks, if these things are what we think
they are, then they've basically latched onto their version of
a bonanza because they're going to be able to get
their supply for as long as they want to be
able to get it. And I again, I think, you know,

(01:25:25):
these things, from what little we understand of them, if
they are interdimensional beings, they do still appear to be
human or humanoid. So what happens with people with absolute power?

Speaker 4 (01:25:36):
It corrupts, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
And I was going to say they always eventually wound
up abusing it. So assuming these things are actually just
people from another dimension, and for somehow or some way,
our trauma is like a landing beacon for them, with
whatever technology or whatever they use, I mean, you know,
the funny thing is kind of kind of did this
for another I think it was Disney. Disney Pixar did

(01:26:04):
this from another perspective with Monsters, because remember the whole
point of the movie Monsters Inc. In the beginning was
they jump jumped out of the closet, scared the crap
out of the kids, and collected all the energy from
their screens. So this, this isn't this isn't a new concept,
which I also find interesting anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
Yeah, well it's that you were talking about the woman,
you know, detoxing from a you know, opiate addiction. You know,
there's another story of a man undergoing heroin detox in Vancouver,
and while he was, while he was, you know, in clinic,
he he he saw a group of shadows that would
crawl out from under the bed and pile up in
the corner. And he described him as human shaped trash

(01:26:47):
bags full of breadth. And as the detox intensified, they
started coalescing into a single shape every time that they
would come out, and eventually that shape was the hat Man.
And you know, he he described as the figure sitting
cross legged on his dresser and just watched five nights
straight while he was going through withdrawals, you know. And

(01:27:10):
then the implication with that is that you don't have
to consciously some of them that you're you know, your
pain is enough.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Yeah, so what so you're great. Now I'm going to
have like shadow people in my fucking Thanks Amish, Thanks Tom,
I'm gonna have I'm gonna have my first shadow experience
doing because of you.

Speaker 4 (01:27:28):
You Hey, maybe that's why you're having electrical trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:27:32):
Because my fear is going to be in enough.

Speaker 4 (01:27:34):
Yeah, But getting back to what you were talking about earlier,
you know, is the act of naming creates a reality
in countless mythologies, you know, and Egypt to Noah, god's
name was to be able to control it. And love Craft,
you know, to to read the name of a god
is to go mad. And you know, when we name

(01:27:55):
the hat man, when we name the crawlers or you know,
the cloaked figures, you know, are we creating the channel
for them?

Speaker 13 (01:28:02):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:28:03):
Is it every time somebody googles shadow person and every
time they post a story us doing this podcast? You know,
are we enforcing? Are we reinforcing the enities foothold? You know,
kind of like a memetic virus that grows to attention.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
Could be we're making it worse, man, We're making worse.

Speaker 4 (01:28:27):
So and that brings up an interesting question. You know,
what do you feel? What do you fear more, you know,
being from somewhere else or a monster that you created yourself? Yeah,
that's almost you know, that's Frankenstein. You know, that's Mary
Shelley right there.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
I would much rather think of this as some sort
of an out outside influence than some sort of you know,
malevolence from my ID.

Speaker 4 (01:28:56):
Yeah. That's easier to cope with, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
Yeah? Yeah, because because if I'm doing this to myself.
That means I really hate me and I don't like
that idea.

Speaker 4 (01:29:08):
Wait, but I mean that's you know, we've always been
told we create our own demons.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
Eh. Probably that's probably more accurate than anybody wants to admit.
All right, well, believe it or not, we're already at
the bottom of the hour again, I know, right, all right,
so it'll take me a second to get a cute up.
But we do have a special treat from our program
premming director. Programming director. I can talk in a moment,

(01:29:35):
I promise, otherwise known as our resident alien, who might
actually be secretly trying to kill us all. I guess
we'll find out in a few weeks. But here is
well kind of open, well openly with me. He still
pretends he likes you. But anyway, so this is the
song that he created inspired by this episode. Without further

(01:29:58):
ado h.

Speaker 13 (01:30:13):
H h. Walk beneath the scaffold, eyes like cracks in prison,

(01:31:24):
stones speaking truths, no mirror shoals.

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
It swears.

Speaker 16 (01:31:38):
Faircles side of prayers, no God's will claim. The footprints
burning velvet does.

Speaker 13 (01:31:56):
Has no name.

Speaker 16 (01:32:12):
I saw them really smoke where broken clocks forget to tea.
They led into my shadow.

Speaker 15 (01:32:28):
Who taught me.

Speaker 10 (01:32:30):
Tricks.

Speaker 6 (01:32:35):
They live between the heartbeats, where shame and silence breaks.

Speaker 13 (01:32:46):
They feed upon the night and plant to deep to
see shad of people wearing faces. I wants no, We're
wispered secrets through the cracks of what is true.

Speaker 6 (01:33:07):
They rise in me like smoke without a flame. They
called my name, but it's never quite the same.

Speaker 13 (01:33:25):
I built a cage of reasons, but they slipped between
the bars. They danced upon my silence, that my mental scar.

Speaker 15 (01:34:14):
Now I speak their language, learn seeing en blinded out,
I walk among li, but I dream and shadow skies, shadow.

Speaker 13 (01:34:36):
People wearing faces.

Speaker 1 (01:34:38):
I once knew.

Speaker 15 (01:34:40):
They come my.

Speaker 13 (01:34:42):
Story in a tongue I never grew. They sing in
me like thunder through a vein. They speak mind name,
and I answer just the same.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
Where are you.

Speaker 4 (01:35:04):
In the quiet, in the glitch, in the flicker between heartbeats?

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
Dude, I'm gonna be honest. If I didn't know, I
would have no idea.

Speaker 4 (01:35:20):
That was AI.

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
That's that's it, damn.

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
I mean it used to be obvious. I mean, and
this was this was only six seven months ago. You know,
when I first started playing with some of the AI programs.
It was obvious that it was a computer generated voice.
These things have come light years in just that amount
of time that that seems like something that was actually
professionally produced. It's kind of scary.

Speaker 4 (01:35:46):
No, he's fantastic with it. It's funny as Yes, sometimes
he'll uh yeah, he'll let me preview the song and
you know, we'll play guest the influence in it, and
you know, it's like without it. It was obviously tool
a little bit of radio and I couldn't hit the
third one, and he said, well, Pink Floyd, but another one, Jeff,
if you're listening, that hit me at the beginning. Yeah,

(01:36:07):
I was outside watching you know, the dusk during the
break and listening in and a little bit of Blue
Man Group at the beginning. So whether that was intentional
or not, good job.

Speaker 1 (01:36:18):
Yeah, I don't know if it was intentional round, but
I kind of got the same vibe on the beginning,
so I could see that. I can see, yeah, but yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:36:26):
So well, yeah, it's kind of funny. Just I don't
know he knew the topic, but I don't know if
he had seen the research material, but he hit every
note of everything we're talking about tonight. In that song.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
Well, I mean that that that probably has more to
do with that whole serendipity thing we talk about all
the time than anything, because it's weird because remember when
we were doing this, and we always did politics Free Friday,
and it was I think it was I think it
was Al Jeff and then us I think was the
order that went in. I might have flipped the first
two round. But it was funny because we would never
share notes with each other, and even on the shows

(01:37:00):
like this one, somehow we would overlap with our topics
and we'd all be talking about. Everyone's like, how the
hell do we keep doing that? I'm like, I honestly
don't know, but it's just it's just this cool thing.
And the same thing has happened with Korn Show, because
like he'll tell me what book we're doing, and now
that he wants kind of more of a second tier
than just a producer, I'll go through and I'll start

(01:37:21):
reading through it just so I could at least contribute.
And he's already gone through all these books, so he's
already marked everything that he wants to talk about. These
are things from his personal shelf, and he's like, and
the first couple of times I was doing kind of
the sounding board thing. He's like, dude, you're bringing up
things that I was just about to talk about. I
was like, Yeah, that would have freaked me out if
it didn't already happen a million other times on a
million other shows.

Speaker 4 (01:37:43):
No, it happens all the time. He just sent me
a message on discord is that he hadn't seen our
research when he did that. But the song flowed with
each you know, with each bar, you know, you know,
and each section of the song is flowing with each
section of the show. So again we've got this you know,
synergy going on with all of us here.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
The collective consciousness is real.

Speaker 4 (01:38:09):
Because you field is really all.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
So dude, they're like starting to prove it out with
quantum mechanics because they can't understand how particles that are
light years apart from one another can interact. So am
I saying of the.

Speaker 4 (01:38:23):
Am I saying the basic uh, you know, the the
well produced Layman's explanation of quantum gravity. I don't think
so okay, I'll drop those to you after I dropped
him on Nemic because you guys been talking about string
theory and this one kind of like destroys string theory. Yeah,

(01:38:44):
you know, even though it's the cathedral that science is
building right now, it's a very complex, unnecessarily complex cathedral.
So and eaight is a lot more elegant and so yeah,
i'll drop that to you after the show.

Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
Yeah, he rarely checks DM, so but he's pretty.

Speaker 4 (01:39:02):
He acknowledged it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
No, I was just wondering if he didn't actually acknowledge it.
I was going to see about it if it was okay,
if I gave you the email that we use because
I can't even give him show keys and D He's like,
you just email, I don't like checking DM. I'm like, okay, go.

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
Yeah, no, I know, give it a week or two
and he'll eventually see it.

Speaker 1 (01:39:20):
So yeah, I mean that's that's how that's how I
got to produce. That's how I got to produce this show.
I hit him up and him and he eventually answered me, right,
well there you go.

Speaker 4 (01:39:32):
So anyway, so moving on the Yeah, the the final
the final bucket that these fall into is that yeah,
it's not just fearing a trench coat, but they're Toulpa machines.
And the total theory suggests that the hat Man and
the others. They're not discovered but created. In Tibetan mysticism,

(01:39:56):
a tulpa is a thought form given independent existence through
intense concentration. Yeah, this was also this was picked up
by Western occultist in the early twentieth century, and today
it's supercharged by the Internet. Every blog post, every reddit,
throughout every YouTube video.

Speaker 1 (01:40:15):
That's okay, that was that wasn't on my side. I
don't know, but yeah, I'm fine.

Speaker 4 (01:40:23):
Okay, that's weird. I mean, I know, okay, I I heard.

Speaker 1 (01:40:27):
It was a static burst. I get them movie so often.
I'm assuming it may have something to do with how
you're tying things in on your board now, but I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:40:35):
I haven't changed much. But yeah, now, okay, if the
only thing that's really changed on my computers, I put
in a new aio and uh watercour and the pumps
just rammed up because it's getting hotter in my room
because I can't have the air conditioning on and here
when I'm doing a show, and uh so that may
have something to do with I'll watch.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
For that, dude. It's not worth you dying. Turn your
air conditioner on.

Speaker 4 (01:41:00):
Not that hot, But yeah, so you know, anyway, you
know it so all the you know, even doing this podcast,
you know and blog posts right threads, all that it
adds fuel to the collective imagination, and these might be
creating them into the shared space, you know, if thousands
believe in the hat man if everything. It's kind of

(01:41:22):
like with the the thin man fad that was going around,
yeah years ago. You know, it's kind of like you know,
the the internet copy pasta creepy pasta became a thing,
you know, and uh in the collective imagination to the
point where you led some girls to do some not
some good things. Anyway, But yeah, if we're constantly digesting

(01:41:47):
you know, this creepy pasta fear fuel, you know, are
we invoking the creation? Are we are we creating it
out of our own minds?

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
Well, I mean so in this this cod and you know,
I hate to keep doing this, but this goes back
to the same kind of stuff that Nimic and I
have been talking about, because in reality, since we are
and I mean even you agree to a point, even
if you're you know, I'm not exactly sure how we
got here, but I know something got us here some way.
So in some level, we're at least coming to terms

(01:42:17):
with the fact that we are at least some form
of entity beyond ourselves. And maybe it's because we're all,
you know, interconnected with the universe somehow or the ecoustic
field or whatever. But in almost every major religion there's
the concept of we have the same power as our creator.
It's it's it's put in the Bible very succinctly. You

(01:42:38):
have the same power of life and death with your
tongue as God the Father had in a creation of
the universe. So the idea that we could be putting
energy out there that makes these things manifest is actually
spiritually supported. Because so I mean, and that that is
again why when that clicked, that clicked with me a

(01:42:59):
segment or ago, and that's why I was like, damn it,
You're gonna make me have my first shadow an encounter
tonight because I'm gonna create this thing in my head
and I'm gonna wake up and something's gonna be standing
over my bed and I'm gonna be yelling damn it,
Amish when it happens.

Speaker 4 (01:43:14):
So but no, I mean, not only not only either
in power or repel.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
So Jess, I'm just glad you're hearing that you're starting
to feel better.

Speaker 4 (01:43:25):
Yeah, thanks for me good. Yeah, but I mean, so
it asked. The question, you know, is, if tens of thousands,
hundred thousand millions of people start to actually believe in
a silhouette wearing a wide brim hat, does he eventually
appear to everybody?

Speaker 1 (01:43:42):
Why? Why does it?

Speaker 10 (01:43:43):
Why?

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
Why did they make him have to look like this smoking?
That's my only question.

Speaker 4 (01:43:47):
Well that you know is why is that? Why the hat,
why the cloak, why the shadow for him? And it's
because these are all cultural archetypes. You know, they're recurring
figures that appear across time and space. The grim Reaper,
the Boogeyman, the man in black, the watcher in the corner.
They're not just tropes of psychological constants. You know. It's

(01:44:09):
the human mind will externalize fear into shapes you like
I said, you know, the jacket on the chair becomes
a shadow man. You know, as we anthropomorphize things, because
that's part of our threat response. You know, it's it's
our fight or flight, you know, it's we'll turn it.
You know, if we can't define something, our brain will
try to turn it into something until we can define it,

(01:44:31):
you know, and it's Yeah, the silhouet of the humanoid,
the dark, and the faceless is one of the most
universal cultural archetypes. It's the predator we can't name. It's
the stranger we fear, it's the death we dread. It's
all those it's all those things rolled into one. And

(01:44:52):
the fact that it doesn't actually do anything is because
we haven't given it that life yet.

Speaker 1 (01:44:58):
Yeah, I mean, young would call this stuff. It's it's
basically the shadow self be it be the repressed, hidden
part of our psyche that we deny. So shadow people
may in fact be literal projections that represent God. Could
just complete fear, shame, trauma given form by the subconscious.

(01:45:23):
So they haunt bedrooms because bedrooms are private. They appear
at night because that's when repression slips in. If the
hat man is a tupa, he's not just made of belief,
He's made of us, all the fear we suppress, all
the control we lack, all the helplessness we carry, which

(01:45:43):
may also explain, going back to one of the hat
man stories that we had already discussed, why the man
was seeing himself. When the hat man became more.

Speaker 4 (01:45:52):
Manifest yeah, because it's not an invader, it's a reflection
and it's our collective dread, our shadows self and the
trench coat, you know, and this opens, you know, the
chilling possibility that if we made them, you know, not
individually but culturally, you know, is that the hat man,

(01:46:13):
the cloak washers, the crawlers, all of them are byproducts
of you know, collective psychic architecture, you know, built over
generations of anxiety, repression and storytelling.

Speaker 1 (01:46:29):
Oh so, yeah, Well, the interesting thing is, you know,
in this vein, this would explain a few things like
why the hat man's features are starkly symbolic. The wide
brimmed hat suggest outdated authority, an old world figure like
a nineteen forties detective or executioner. The code implies concealment,
The silence implies judgment. He doesn't act because he doesn't

(01:46:52):
need to. His presence is indictment enough.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
Yeah. Similar figure of this, you know, exists in the
Slavic uh the Nazi dosar, which are the night watchers,
and they're said to you know, they were said to
patrol the villages during the plague gears.

Speaker 1 (01:47:10):
I'm sorry, what was that about the gatekeeper and Gozera.

Speaker 4 (01:47:16):
The Nachi dozer, dozer with the D big difference, huge, Yeah,
there were, you know. It's they patrolled the villages during
the plague gears, you know, faceless men and long coats,
just seeing who would live and die. In South American culture,
there's the Samarese scientsios, or the silent shadows that always

(01:47:40):
appeared before a catastrophe, watching but never interfering, interfering, you know.
And the Japanese is the coroboso, which is a dark
monk seen in the quarters during intense emotional distress. It's
they're cross cultural. Every culture has been, it always has.

Speaker 1 (01:47:59):
So yeah, well another one, you know, speaking of crawl
culture realism. In nineteen fifty six, a Hungarian priest documented
reports of uh Arik. Yeah, so there's even the pronunciation
marks in the notes, and I still fucked it up.

Speaker 4 (01:48:18):
So go figure out. You're welcome.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
The black shadows seen outside village homes before fires or suicides.
The figure was described as wearing a wide cloak and
appearing at exactly midnight. Locals began to place ash circles
around doorways tod It's her it's presence, claiming the figure
would not cross them. Hmm. That that had that has

(01:48:41):
shades of the whole passover thing. Lamb's blood on the
wind on the door jams keeps the bad modo away, right.

Speaker 4 (01:48:50):
See, like I said, I mean, all these traditions, all
these they they're universal. You know. It's like you know
the woman in Laghostni, you know she described a face
was being knowing. I'm not even going to try to pronounce.

Speaker 1 (01:49:03):
It at.

Speaker 4 (01:49:08):
Yeah, that's just way way too many vowel consonant vowel
without anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:49:16):
I know, it's the watch a shadow. Now. It would
stand motionless near doors where the elders were dying, or
during family disputes that were unresolved, and it was said
to consume untended ancestral pains.

Speaker 1 (01:49:36):
That's weird untended ancestral pain.

Speaker 4 (01:49:40):
Hmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:49:43):
So again, just to clarify, these things aren't demons, they're
not ghosts, but they're threshold archetypes, figures that appear at
the edge of change, collapse, or transformation in Jungi. In
terms their shadow archetypes representations of the parts of ourselves
we deny. Hat man may not be an intruder. He may,

(01:50:04):
in fact be a reflection or of our disowned, power itself, rage, fear,
all coalesced into one form. The fact that children see
him before hearing of him challenges the tulpa theory unless
tulpas are not made by belief but transmitted thought. So

(01:50:28):
then that could be true if they're transmitted either through
thought or that maybe they're transmitted through belief. So basically
it's kind of like, well, this ties back to the
thing that was just talking about how it feeds off
of ancestral pain. So if you have a family member
who is being plagued by one of these things, even

(01:50:50):
if you don't know about it, is it being transmitted
to you because you're part of that same family line
since some of these things like ancestral pain, that's an
interesting thought.

Speaker 4 (01:51:00):
Yeah, that goes to the blood guilt theory.

Speaker 5 (01:51:03):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:51:03):
It's, you know, for whatever reason, your family has a
stain on it, you know, or a curse.

Speaker 1 (01:51:12):
Yeah, I mean, and that's all throughout most major religions too.
You know, the sins of the fog father will be
visited upon their children for attenent for what is it,
one hundred generations I think.

Speaker 4 (01:51:24):
You know, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, see, Now the
interesting thing with this too, is that. You know, has
the Internet created a hypertool tool environment. You know, it's
like a machine for spreading psychic constructs every you know, everything,
every confession, every podcast, you know, every TikTok you It

(01:51:45):
reinforces the it reinforces the blueprint to give it, to
give it even more definition. You know, as these reports increase,
so to the details. You know, early hat Man was
described as a vague silhouette. Now he has height, posh
sure attitude. You know, some who have even described his eyes,
you know, deep red or void black. You know, it

(01:52:08):
suggests an emerging design. You know that it's not static,
that it's evolving.

Speaker 1 (01:52:13):
But there's another side of this. So but what so
if there is some shaping involved, what if it's not
us doing the shaping? So In Rule Maine, a teenage
girl became obsessed with the hat Man after discovering shadow
forums online. She began drawing him, writing about him, even

(01:52:34):
speaking to him before bed. Within two months, her younger
brother began waking up screaming about a man in the closet.
The family dog refused to enter the girl's bedroom after dark.
When her computer crashed, The last image open was a
heavily distorted version of the hat man with glowing red eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
So what is it?

Speaker 1 (01:52:57):
What if it what again? If it's a familiar thing,
What if it's not even you, yourself making it happen?
What if some what if somebody along your bloodline is
completely like transfixed with these things and helping make it
manifest and then it comes to pick on you instead,
that that is that that is a completely twisted part
of this whole scenario. And I would be stabbing I

(01:53:20):
would be stabbing my sister.

Speaker 4 (01:53:22):
I mean, or you know, you're just you know, talking
about you know, the the the younger brother experiencing it.
You know, what if it's you know, you may not
have created it, but someone in your household has and
it's figured out that you're the better feeding. You taste better,

(01:53:42):
You taste better, you you you produce the sweeter fear whatever.
You know, it's or even in your neighborhood, in your block,
you know, you're the tastiest morsel on the street. You know,
it's if we're creating, if we're collectively creating me, then
you know it's not young and it's not our shadow

(01:54:03):
shadow self, it's you know, it's a manifestation of somebody's
and you're just a bystander because you know a lot
of these things. You know, it's the person wasn't experiencing anything.
You know, it had no trauma, it had no guilt,
it had no you know, repressed you know, scars it,

(01:54:25):
but they still experienced.

Speaker 1 (01:54:27):
It and it was all somebody else's fault. Correct do that?
That part freaks me out, Like, why am I getting
punished because somebody else decided to talk about your ass?
That would that dude, I would be like, you did
this to me, I'm gonna stab you.

Speaker 5 (01:54:47):
But.

Speaker 4 (01:54:49):
You bring that evil on me. Well, it's like the
story of the man in Lithuania. He claimed that each
time he told someone about the entity he had seen
as a child, a hat wearing shadow would appear within week,
and after he appeared on a podcast to share the
story about it, he reported three straight nights of visitations,
and on the fourth, he burned every photo of himself

(01:55:11):
from his childhood, claiming that the entity had followed the image.

Speaker 1 (01:55:17):
Okay, that's a little weird.

Speaker 4 (01:55:20):
That's I mean that that's when you're getting to the
point that it's like and I could see something like
this doing that where you're grasping for anything to make
it stop. Yeah, woman, burning stage, the you know, moving apartments,
and it's if it becomes that powerful, you'll try anything

(01:55:45):
to get rid of it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
Well, So, in the same vein, here's another interesting little anecdote.
So in a Romanian asylum journal from nineteen twenty two,
a patient wrote obsessively about a man in black who
stood in corners and whispered truths too early. The drawings
show a long silhouette, brimmed hat, and dozens of overlapping

(01:56:09):
hands reaching outward from the torset. The figure was described
as a rumor that gained a spine.

Speaker 4 (01:56:18):
I like that description of for telling the future whispered
truths too early. That's I like that. That's yeah. See.
But so if something else is using our cultural imagination
as a delivery system, you know, then where did you know?

(01:56:42):
It's so I'm trying to figure out how to phrase this. Yeah, okay,
if it's not real, because we believe in them, and
it's real as long as we believe in them. You know,
that's the cart before the horse kind of thing. You know,
it's the chicken in the egg, you know, it's where
was the initial manifestation you know, how is culture bringing

(01:57:03):
it forward? You know, we talked about was it a
primordial threat to us? And it's in our share you know,
it's in our genetic memory. You know, it's all all
they or you know, it's it's like, I'm just well,
I mean the way that my head is expanding on

(01:57:24):
this one right now, I'm I'm having a hard time.

Speaker 1 (01:57:26):
Vocalizing well, so well, I mean, well, it's it's kind
of going back to a point that I think you
were trying to make a second ago. So it's not
that these things are real because we believe in them.
They're they're real as long as we believe in them.
So and in this kind of ties in you remember
the folks that were you know, they were only seeing
them as they were going through their addictions, and once

(01:57:48):
they got past their addictions and they were sober, they
kind of disappeared. And I think that may also, I
don't think I don't know if it ties in as
much with you know, their their struggle was feeding them
or much as they were able to come to terms
with the fact that those things couldn't possibly be real
because they weren't under the influence of either the drugs
or the withdrawal symptoms anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:58:09):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:58:10):
But the thing about it is, but if he is
real or where they are, because you bring going back
to Batman, So if he is real, for as long
as we believe in him. But in the words of
Jeff Goldblum, it's not only life that always finds a way.
Fear will always find a way too. So even if

(01:58:30):
you managed to get past the one, so what's to
say that it won't try to change and come back later.
So even if even if they stop appearing in doorways
or at the foot of your beds or out of
the you see him in the corner of your eyes,
though at some point probably simply change shape, because fear

(01:58:51):
always finds a new trench coat.

Speaker 4 (01:58:55):
Yeah, I like that, Yeah, yeah, And that's kind of
you know, that's really the you know, the crux of
it is that it will always have some form of fear.

Speaker 17 (01:59:06):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:59:06):
It's will it be as strong enough to summon them?
Maybe not, Maybe we've gotten past that paralysisphere and we've
developed better coping mechanisms, you know, but you'll it'll always
be there at the back of your head too, and
you'll always remember it, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
So we're gonna do something a little bit different tonight's
because well tonight and for the next couple of weeks,
because I know some of you will be catching up
with podcasts later. So what I would like you to
do is, I'm going to ask a couple of questions.
If you feel up through responding, you can either add
us or you can email me at Ricky Kale or radio.
But now that you guys have heard all of these

(01:59:49):
different takes, ask yourself this. Have you ever felt watched
when no one was there? Because I know I have.
I did remember kid running to the trying to run
to the porch, felt like it took forever to get there.
I never saw it, but I felt like something was there.
Have you ever dreamed of a figure standing in your
doorway only to wake and see the same shape still there.

(02:00:12):
I haven't had that one happen, but I have had
an orbit experience in my hallway as a kid. Have
you caught motion in your peripheral vision? That hass happened
to me? That and but it vanished a second straight
at it, So yeah, that one's happened to me. Have
your pets Have your pets ever growled at nothing? Yes?
Quite often all the time.

Speaker 4 (02:00:33):
That's defining characteristic in most pets.

Speaker 1 (02:00:36):
If you ever confronted by any of these things, did
you ever stay still just to see if it would
actually move?

Speaker 4 (02:00:44):
But go ahead, now, go ahead, wrap yourself up, and
then well.

Speaker 1 (02:00:49):
I was just gonna as I was just gonna ask
one one more question. So what if these figures aren't
units of your imagination though, but responses to your awareness.
Just giving folks some food for thought as we start
wrapping up, because I'm trying to feed I am trying
to feed the night.

Speaker 4 (02:01:08):
Now I am the shadow. It's your turn. So I
was thinking while you were doing that, you know what,
we got to start doing.

Speaker 1 (02:01:16):
What we should.

Speaker 4 (02:01:18):
Yes, we should drop holes during the show. Yes, I'm
down with that, all right, it's it's happening. Yeah, that
was a fun topic. I've been wanting to do this
one again for a long time.

Speaker 1 (02:01:35):
It was fun. Then, dude, I have to admit I
I almost pulled the pin the night again. I was like,
I just I don't know if I've got it at me,
but I'm glad I didn't.

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
Because this was fun. Yeah, this was fun. So you
mentioned something earlier and I just want to so do
you want to move our night to after FPF or
do you want to stay on the off weeks?

Speaker 1 (02:01:58):
Well, the thing is they're they're doing every Saturday now,
so it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (02:02:02):
All right, Okay, So do we want to back up
next week on our regular week? Ye cool, I'll whip
something together for us, unless you want to take this one.

Speaker 1 (02:02:13):
Well, we'll talk about that after. I mean, it would
technically be my chair and you did the notes on
this one, so yeah, okay, all right.

Speaker 4 (02:02:21):
I'm still trying to figure that's a little behind the scenes,
is that. You know, sometimes we'll research topics together. Sometimes
it will surprise the other one with the data dump.

Speaker 1 (02:02:31):
Well, I'm still trying to figure out when we can
get Nimick on because he really really wants to do
the show, but he's only going to be in town
for like a week, and then he's off for four
weeks again because he's going to Paris, and shit, I'm like,
do you one of these One of these is I'm
gonna figure out how to climb in your luggage because
you go every fucking work.

Speaker 4 (02:02:46):
Well, you said he wanted to do Atlantis, yep, I
don't think we could put it in Atlantis together show
in a week.

Speaker 1 (02:02:55):
Not a good one, so we'll have to wait until he's.

Speaker 4 (02:02:57):
Back, but yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (02:03:01):
But yeah, I'm going to talk about him with that
Sunday before well, I guess next time, so we have
one more pre record because he's still out, but he'll
be back for a full live, not this Sunday, but
the next Sunday. So I'm going to talk to him
about that and find out, you know, when he's back
and has a spare moment to breathe, when he wants

(02:03:22):
to stay up past his bedtime because he's an East
Coaster now and he's like, y'all do this show late.

Speaker 4 (02:03:27):
So so I'll just made it. And yeah, AMD, that
last bit does sound adjacent to Poltergeist, it really does.
I'm just catching up with a chat right now.

Speaker 2 (02:03:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:03:39):
That's the one thing with these research heavy shows. I
feel bad because there's like people that are in there
talking and talking and talking, and it takes me forever
to be able to see what they're saying because I'm
like trying to keep up with on my notes. But anyway, yeah, okay,
so I don't remember what it was, but there was
something you said you want to do talk about at

(02:03:59):
the end of the show we had time, and now
I don't remember what it was.

Speaker 4 (02:04:02):
Just it was just the reason why Dark Matter was
canceled and love Joy's got another two seasons. I research
on it and I found out why.

Speaker 1 (02:04:11):
Well, I thought part of it was the lead one
of the leads actually got a part on the Rookie
and was doing that instead. But there's probably more that
was after No, that was.

Speaker 4 (02:04:19):
After the fact. They didn't get renewed because a significant
part of the budgeting and tie in came from space
dot com or space dot com Space the Canadian UHC
FI versions of Sci Fi Channel, So it came down
into a royalties battle.

Speaker 1 (02:04:39):
Ah way to kill a good TV show, dude. That
that honestly, that is one. That's one of the things
that I hate. I really wish there was some way
to get a rider put in where like, especially if
a show has a bible, because a lot of the
best ones do. I mean, it's not like it's not
really like an entire framework, but there is a eideline

(02:05:00):
or rails for a certain number of episodes, for a
certain amount of time, And I really wish that there
was some sort of a way to put a writer
in there that if you take this to pilot and
you decide to pick it up, then you are required
to finish at least the Bible before you kill me.
Because I am so tired of investing time and energy
in these shows when they just kill them for what

(02:05:21):
amounts to almost no reason, especially because nobody's figured out
how to really, you know, do anything any justice anymore.
Because all the viewing numbers are so spread out all
over the place, it almost seems like nobody's really watching
anything anymore because you're getting fifty sixty thousand off of
this app or seventy eighty thousand off of this app,
and nobody's really watching Well, it's because we're all on

(02:05:42):
different apps at different times. There's not you know, appointment
TV or anything anymore, because you can just usually you
think you can watch it whenever you want to, and
then you guys are like, oh no, this one's not
getting enough traction, so we're just gonna kill it like
like and but you know parent company for USA Sci Fi, Okay,
so you don't you don't think you're getting enough ratings

(02:06:02):
on the cable channels put it on the fucking peacock
cock app. You've already done that with days, so you
can make room for some afternoon new show. So at
least let them finish finish out their Bible before you
just say no, we're done. I mean, because it sucks.
It's I don't even really like trying to get invested
in new TV shows anymore because they never make it anymore.

(02:06:24):
I'd just rather go back and watch old shit that
I know has like, because you know you watch ten
fifteen twenty year old shows. You're getting in one one
season four seasons now, And I was like, what's the point.

Speaker 4 (02:06:39):
Yeah, if you're only doing ten episodes and you're not
even out of exposition before you cancel the show, that's
a you problem. But don't get me invested in, and
don't get pissed off if I don't show up until
your third season, because I want to see if you're
gonna stick before I invest any time into it. So
so I thought you'd find that because you and I
talk about dark matter all the time, So I really

(02:07:01):
dug into uh. Because I haven't had the research for
this show for a few weeks. I've had a lot
of extraneous research time.

Speaker 1 (02:07:10):
Yeah, but yeah, I had no idea on that. Hey Al,
I hope that. I hope the gig went well, even
though you know you got some demerits for arriving lates or.

Speaker 4 (02:07:19):
Yeah yeah we we we we we drop one of
our tighter shows and you can't even be here for it.
We had a gig, so that's all right.

Speaker 1 (02:07:29):
Yeah, I mean technically he's doing what he loves. And
even even you know, the artist normally known as Beaker
hit me up with a text, be like, I will
be checking this out on the on the rewind sir,
I can't be there live.

Speaker 4 (02:07:41):
Yeah, he's at He's at a family wedding. Because there
there's a handful of people who all send reminders to yeah,
Jess Beeker in a couple others that would be like, hey,
jux is in thirty minutes or juxas in an hour,
and uh, yeah he was. I knew he was at
a wedding, so I didn't even bother to send him
a pig.

Speaker 1 (02:08:00):
So yeah, he's still pinging me when it went live.

Speaker 4 (02:08:03):
Yeah, so anyway, shadow people, that was funny. When you
next show, we're starting polls, Hey al, start doing that?

Speaker 1 (02:08:12):
You should you should film that. Some people will pay
you for that.

Speaker 4 (02:08:16):
Yeah, yeah, the OnlyFans al flogging himself in shame.

Speaker 1 (02:08:23):
All right, we should probably wrap up because I do
have tears in the morning, and then I got to
put all the archives up from the ones we did tonight.

Speaker 4 (02:08:29):
So okay, so I'll go first. Where can people find
you already? Well, thanks for asking. You can find me
tomorrow on the Vincent Charles Project or Vincent Charles, myself, uh,
program director Jeff Janelle Laws and the incomparable Mickey Blowtorch

(02:08:49):
will be talking about the movie Clue. You can find
me Tuesday on a Manorama panel with Rank or Steve, You,
Vincent Charles, I'm Canadian. You never know who's gonna show
up on that one.

Speaker 1 (02:09:03):
It's good fun and apparently apparently we're crossing the conspiratainment
threshold on that one this week.

Speaker 4 (02:09:09):
Yeah, they're they're stealing into our shtick and they want
to do conspirattainment. So you know what, that's time to shine,
I mean, you know, I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:09:17):
Well, I mean think about this from this perspective, though,
our our our our man related show kicks their ass.
So now there having a couple of the best conspirat
tatement guys on talking about conspirait tainment. So I'll take that.

Speaker 4 (02:09:29):
That's that's fair. That's fair, which is funny because we're
on both the shows. Excuse me. So then you can
find me Wednesday back here with you as we do
Rick and Lady, and then I am off the rest
of the next week until we do this again next
Saturday night on Juxtaposition. How about your work, people.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
Find you, don't look for me. It's a drap. You
can find me tomorrow night pushing buttons for I'm Kran
Nimick otherwise known as Koran Nimmick himself. You may know
him as either Jonas Quinn or Parker Lewis, among other things. Dude,
I find him everywhere.

Speaker 4 (02:10:05):
Now.

Speaker 1 (02:10:05):
It was funny. I was like watching some of the
Star Trek fanfit and he was in one of those,
playing like Captain Alvarez. And the funny thing is as
as cheesy as the sets were and as funny as
the uniforms look, sometimes it's still like light years better
than Courageman Trek, which just proves Paramount didn't know what
they were doing with the franchise. But so yeah, I'll

(02:10:27):
be doing that and then I think I'm still I
know I'm planning on starting to do a couple of
makeup episodes in the next couple of Mondays, but I
think this Monday will not be that because I'm trying
to get my studio put back together. So this week
we'll still be Tuesday through Friday. I am going to
be cutting back an hour though, to try to give
myself some more you know, behind the scenes work time

(02:10:49):
so I'm not always scrambling. So the new showtime frames
will be from nine to eleven Eastern because eleven and
that'll actually let me simulcast on the shr Media YouTube
Channel two because I won't be stepping on anything they
trying to do on a couple of days they have
earlier programming, So that's the other reason why I'm making
the cut. And then Tuesday night of course hanging out
on Manorama doing the Conspirat Tament thing. Wednesday night running

(02:11:12):
the boards and doing all the live work behind the
scenes and in front of the mic for our chat
Lives Matter night, which does include me and you doing
Rick and Orty and other folks. And then Thursday nights
I'm not sure. Uh Jen has been doing some vacationing.
So we're still trying to figure out when she wants
to come back and do a show. But I'm not

(02:11:32):
gonna I'm not gonna interfere with her vacation time because
I'm jealous because she gets to take them and I don't.
And then Friday night, he said, she said, with the
lovely Aggie, we can eat thirty pemeastern Saturday night back
with you. Other than that, you can find me on
X at Radoick seventy three. You can find our network
at kal Arm Radio, on x YouTube, Facebook, and rumble.
You can find me as a contributor on Twitter dot com,

(02:11:54):
Misfitspolitics dot com, the Loftest Party dot com. And I
also produce a Loftist Party podcast which drops on Tuesdays.
And like I said, don't look for me. It's a
trap because once you find me everywhere, shut up. But yeah,
that's the other thing.

Speaker 4 (02:12:13):
If we had what are we looking at just over
nine hundred of you listening to us tonight, Thank you
so much. That's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (02:12:22):
Yeah, especially after having a month off and barely promoting.
I'll take that.

Speaker 4 (02:12:26):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (02:12:28):
All right, folks, we are going to get out of here.
Thank you so much for spending part of your Saturday
night with us, even if some of you went and
did the whole jack and the bass guitarist thing first
and then slid into the last minute. Not gonna name
names or anything. Ald, having a great night everybody, and
hope you're feeling better. Thanks for stoping. We'll see you

(02:12:53):
guys next week and I'll see you tomorrow night.

Speaker 13 (02:12:56):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (02:12:59):
No healing of the hydra.

Speaker 4 (02:13:00):
We've had this discussion. M