Juxtaposition: Titanic, Olympic, JP Morgan and the Birth of the Fed -- Iceburg Assassination Or Accident?

In this episode of Juxtaposition, we probe the Titanic’s sinking through a darker lens: was it really an iceberg—or a switch, a scam, and an assassination rolled into one? From J.P. Morgan’s last-minute absence to the convenient deaths of Federal Reserve opponents, we explore whether the world’s most famous shipwreck was also the birth of modern financial power.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
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Speaker 2 (00:12):
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Speaker 4 (02:43):
The following program contains course, language and adult themes. Listener
and Discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Cream gamers full role.

Speaker 8 (03:03):
Out of side, government shadows, secretstique, conspiracies and full low.

Speaker 9 (03:12):
Sit straight encounter.

Speaker 10 (03:14):
Six play to this out that really shame men went
knowled voices all unleveling history stories untold.

Speaker 11 (03:28):
A real fifty one whispering name, beautiful sightings, haunting thing, love.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
Miss monster, a lottering myth.

Speaker 12 (03:47):
Cryptocology injurious Giff straight encounter, Sid explain to this out
that really shame none went knowledge voices fall on lovely
mystery stories untold see take stout believes your for answers

(04:10):
heading to.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
The flights well Sirs, continuous son.

Speaker 10 (04:19):
Strange, I counted Sun, explain South this out.

Speaker 9 (04:24):
That greatly shade.

Speaker 10 (04:26):
Then we know is fosses fall love and mystery stories untold,
Truth this out, Truth these out.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
And good Saturday Night, Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome into Juxtaposition
are every two week for you, Into the weird, the unusual,
the unexplainable. I am Rick, barely have a voice, Robinson,
but I'm here also joined by my usual cohort and
crime in this show, mister Ordnance J. Packard es Wire
everybody's favorite Olmage attorney. But it's a short list, so
it's probably why he's everybody's favorite, and we have a

(05:13):
guest tonight. I'll let Amage introduce her though before my
throat starts getting all scratching.

Speaker 6 (05:17):
Yes, we do have a special guest tonight. In the topics.
Whenever the topics of you know, what we do on
the show comes up, frequently she will mention the Titanic
and the Olympic. So I figure, who better to have
on the show than to our good friend Aggie Rikin Aggie, Hello, Hi, I.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
Know it's I've always been fascinated by the whole thing,
and one of the things I hate most in this
life is the fact that they made a movie out
of it. So, yeah, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
I'm the guest of the world.

Speaker 6 (05:56):
Oh wait, sorry, you know I I'm I'm not embarrassed
to admit this. I've never seen the movie.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
I've I think I've seen twenty minutes. All I know
about the most of the movie that I all the
gifts that are used. That's how I know most of
what happens in the movie. And of course my sister
told me to give me a brief cliff Notes version
of it, and I'm like, I don't understand why this
was made into a film a romance film. People die

(06:27):
in the end, you know that, right. She's like that
it's so romantic, and I'm like, they died and there.

Speaker 6 (06:34):
Was absolutely room on that door.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
It totally was.

Speaker 6 (06:39):
I mean I would walk by, who'd walk by the
line and say, you know, the boat sings in the end,
thanks for rooting it for me.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
They say, what you want? I got laid during that movie.

Speaker 6 (06:51):
So during or because of I don't.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Want to know, la la la la la, I didn't
get or anything.

Speaker 6 (07:02):
Oh we're reaching into the Sergeant Pepper's level again.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
I was just like, I can't believe they're making a
movie out of this. And then you know they made POMPEII.
I'm like, holy shit, they made that movie into a
romance too.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
It's just like hot, I guess.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
So I was like, uh, my sister asked me to
go with her to go see it because so many
of her favorite actors weren't it. I was like, you
realize this is not gonna This is the only thing
that's going to be right is the very end of
this film. And she said, why what happens? And I'm like,

(07:40):
are you kidding me right now?

Speaker 1 (07:43):
So so off we go.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
She was kind of surprised. Well, I know history. They
could not not they could not not have that ending, So.

Speaker 6 (07:59):
I, yeah, we should have just done it like the
Poseidon Adventure. Then I would have watched it.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
Oh Meda, that was that was good.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I mean MD's made a valid point. The Pompey movie
was kind of hot by default. Yeah, true, very true. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (08:17):
I run hot and cold on these disaster movies. Oh Volcano.
These are the jokes, especially okay with the Titanic, especially
James Cameron directing it. Could you be any more insufferable
if he had had his wife? Susie Abel said it now.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Andrew, I do remember the disaster movies of the seventies,
but that was focused on the actual disaster and the
human condition and the struggle to survive. They did not
make it. They did not make the romance the central
part of the film.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Why do.

Speaker 4 (08:57):
I don't hate romance? I really don't.

Speaker 13 (09:01):
Oh my god.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
I read smut every day.

Speaker 6 (09:04):
Some people in love, damn it.

Speaker 4 (09:07):
But I want realistic romance.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
There's no such thing.

Speaker 6 (09:12):
But that's why you read the Amish vampire smut.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
Oh my goodness. I went to Ali's like three weeks
ago and they had an entire row of Amish romance paperbacks.
I was, I was so close to purchasing them.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
That's an actual thing. I thought it was.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yes, you know what, I'm gonna go back and I'm
going to get some and I will take pictures and
I will reave you at least one of them. For
Spirited Books, it's.

Speaker 6 (09:41):
All over Hallmark. You know we're getting off track here,
but but Amish bodice rippers are all over Hallmark Channel.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Now too, so I mean homage vampire stuff could be
your for October.

Speaker 6 (09:54):
There we go. That's the Jockstober theme we've decided. But
amage vampires.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I'm writing no, okay, no, I was just saying, because
she said she wanted to review one of the books
for Spirited Books, is like that could be here Halloween.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Want I'm still waiting. We need we need to figure
out the Duxtober theme.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
That's next on my list. I have I have a
birthday party tomorrow and then after that I'll be kind
of focusing. Okay, my uh next, well, no, actually, I
guess my third youngest, she turns three tomorrow.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
Fun inwards squee Yeah, I have.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
To send you pictures for that one. She's blond here,
blue eye too. She's gonna be like, she's gonna be somebody.
I'm gonna have to kill people over. I'm afraid.

Speaker 6 (10:50):
Such your face as to squee.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
I can't tell.

Speaker 6 (10:58):
Yeah, the Titanic or was it?

Speaker 9 (11:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, that's the biggest question because now that because that's
one of the questions. Was it actually was not the Titanic?
What happened?

Speaker 6 (11:14):
Yeah, So that's the focus of the show tonight. So
everybody who knows. Everybody knows unless you were been living
under a rock on Mars with your fingers in your
ear for the entirety of your life. In nineteen twelve,
the Titanic set sail on its maiden voyage and it
was a cultural event. It was just everybody was riding

(11:35):
about it. There were tours on it. This was the
This ship was the pinnacle of modern industrial innovation. And
it was one of three. There was the Olympic, the Titanic,
and the Britannic. And the Olympic had set sail earlier
and had had itself a little accident. It had actually
run into a British warship and was severely damaged and

(11:56):
it was brought back to the dock right next to
the Titanic for repairs, and the question is which ship
launched that day with all the passengers board. That's what
we're getting to.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, there's there has been multiple theories about the switching
of the liners, mostly because they they seemed to think
that it was for insurance reasons. They wanted to switch
as ships. The Titanic was fully insured, but the Olympic

(12:35):
was not, and it was it had become a financial
drain due to the fact that it was in dry
dock with the repairs for like four or five months,
and it was not making any money because it was
not out to sea. So a lot of people speculate
that it was switched in order to instigate insurance fraud.

Speaker 6 (12:58):
Yeah, because when when the Olympic got into its accident
with the HMS Hawk, it was determined that the Olympic
was at fault, which cost the White Star Line huge
amounts of money because they could you know, you don't
get insurance when you were at fault, so they had
to repair the ship. The keel was bent, there was

(13:20):
massive damage to the front of it, and it was
and from that point it was uninsurable. It was a
liability being on the sea and it was designed. I
mean there were subtle differences between the Olympic and the
Titanic and the Britannic, but it was designed to be
one of the three sisters the Golden Age of JP

(13:43):
Morgan's venture into the shipping lines where he had started
the the I M M to uh, you know, and
White Star was part of it so that way he
could move his fortune empire into shipping and luxury sailing.
And this was a huge strike to the fledgling company,

(14:09):
it sure was.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
And it was you know, the reason for the White
Star line.

Speaker 11 (14:17):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
They were competing against Qunard, who have been sailing the
seas for quite some time, and they wanted to bring
something that was today's terms, fresh, more modern, more you know, luxurious.
You know, they wanted the you know, the Princess Cruise

(14:41):
line there to compare with the Queud line. And so
these massive, massive ships were built, and they were supposed
to be, you know, the crown jewels of the line.
And I think they just wanted to build the three
I don't think they had any clients to build more

(15:03):
than that, correct, as far.

Speaker 6 (15:05):
As I know, No, these ships were designed. You know,
it's not like with modern shipping, where you know modern
cruise lines, where they'll build a ship and you know,
they'll they'll promote and use the hell out of it
for five ten years, and then they'll downgrade it to
lesser routes as they come on with their new line.
These ships were designed as everything was during the Art

(15:26):
Deco years to last. These were supposed to be on
the sea for fifty years each and they were to
be the pinnacle of sailing for that time period.

Speaker 4 (15:37):
Andrew brought up the Lusitania that was a Cunard Line ship,
along with the Mauritania, and those were the ships that
the White Star line was competing against, which is why
they wanted to make them bigger and longer. And I
am really thinking, we're here in the window, but that

(15:58):
was the whole point. They wanted to compete with those ships.

Speaker 6 (16:03):
Yeah, and so then the three of them were manufacturing.
We talked about how the Olympic got into its accident,
and you know, people people noticed that when they got
on the Titanic that it seemed a little worn. The
carpet was a little afraid, the fixtures were a little scuffed,
you know, and they just chalked it up to well,

(16:25):
you know, this thing has been you know, toured by
so many people for so long during its construction, you know,
because they were showing it off big time before it
finally set sail, and you know, some of the furniture
was chips and stuff like that. So they kind of
just chalked it up to that. And but evidence to
besides that is when the Titanic set sail, the starboard

(16:51):
the star the starboard side of the forward sea deck
on the Titanic had fourteen portholes. The Olympic originally had sixteen,
and photographs taken of the Titanic during sea trials show
that it had fourteen, but the wreck has sixteen.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
And that's not all because the promenade was the promenade deck.
The b deck was configured differently on the sunken ship
than was originally with Titanic blueprints. Not to mention the
stuff you'd already mentioned about people noticing the fixture seemed
a lot older and the carpet was worn out. So yeah,
that's one of the big reasons that everybody's like, hmm,

(17:31):
did they swap these bitches? Yeah, I'm kind of thinking
they might have pulled a swap there is.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
You know, a lot of people have explained that there
was no swap, the configuration of the potholes were actually
done prior to its sailing, blah blah blah blah blah.
And but this theory, you know, they keep debunking it,
and yet it keeps floating because no pun intended. I'm like,

(18:00):
because it as much as you it's almost like a
jigsaw puzzle that all, you know, the piece almost fits,
but that little corner it's like, doesn't go in right.
So it's kind of like that.

Speaker 6 (18:15):
Well, and even internal things, you know, like the staircases
and everything, and the ones at the bottom of the
ocean matched the photographs of the Olympic, not what was
in these brochures for the Titanic.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Some people actually tend to think that, oh, they took
the pictures of you know, for the brochure of the Titanic,
they took it off the other ship and put it
on it because it wasn't finished yet, and so there's
always some kind of explanation for that. But usually when
you're putting out the information in a brochure or in

(18:54):
a flyer, you know, those beautiful flyers that they used
to paint and everything. You want to be as correct
as possible, as accurate as possible, because these people are
paying a lot of money to get to be in
these ships, so you want to incentivize them to actually

(19:15):
book and so you want to show the opulence. So
the thing that you know it not matching. Yeah, that
was a major red flag.

Speaker 6 (19:28):
Yeah that with me too. It's I mean, yeah, I
get it's like, okay, well, you know a lot of
the photographs probably got mixed up and everything. But like
you said, this was a time where it's like doing
things good enough, especially for JP Morgan because he was
a stickler with detail, you know, getting it done, it's
good enough, Just fuck.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
It, ship it.

Speaker 6 (19:50):
That didn't fly, you know, not with the not with
the people at the time, and not with JP Morgan himself.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Right, he was very I one would classify him as
being OCD. That was one of the reasons he was
so successful and with his financial empire. Irony of irony
is the only thing that he did not succeed in
was the imm which was part of the whole shipping

(20:20):
deal with White Star Line. But everything else he was
so meticulous and paid so much attention to detail, that. Yeah,
for him to actually say, eh, it's okay, you know,
eighty percent, it's good to send it off. I don't
see that happening, not with him, right.

Speaker 6 (20:40):
Yeah. You know, it's like I mentioned before, where you know,
passengers commenting that the ship looked tired. But the thing
with the Olympics keel. It's not something that could have
been fixed. So you have to start wondering how much
money are they going to put into this thing to
keep it seaworthy? Because after the accident excuse me, you know,

(21:02):
it was said that it had you know, on while
I was getting back to be repaired, that it had
handling problems, that it was just it it didn't sail. True.
So you know, the question it begs the question, why
would the White Star Line continue to throw money into
this and we're positing that they didn't.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Coact?

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, no, I mean, well that's exactly it. The the
the Olympic had become a money pit and there was
no way there was no way to get it insured
again because and the thing about the scariest thing about
this theory, when you stop and think about it, is
the only people that would have really been able to
know one thousand percent that it was, whether this was
the Sister Ship or the Titanic, would have been shipyard engineers.

(21:50):
And I can't imagine anybody that was, you know, dependent
on a paycheck from these people, especially once the Titanic sank, going,
hey guys, you know something really bad happened, because then
they probably did next.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Right, Yeah, you would have to, you know, so many
people would have had to have kept us a secret
and literally take it to the grave, because the shipyard
is not like five people building a boat. It's five
hundred thousands, you know, that are doing this. So that's

(22:22):
a big stumbling book, I guess.

Speaker 6 (22:26):
I mean, yeah, I mean, I mean it's more than
just you know, changing some fittings around, you know, the
life preservers and painting Titanic on the on the ship.
But and that's kind of like oxenber Ockham's razor on
this whole thing, is that too many people would have
had to have been involved in it. But how many

(22:48):
times we talked about things on the show that too
many people would have had to have been involved in
for it to be real. And then it's no longer
conspiratment on the show anymore. It's something that was like, yeah,
we fucking nailed that one. We called it.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
You know, that's happened. That's happened what five or six
times since we started doing Yeah.

Speaker 6 (23:06):
Yeah, but I mean you take a conspiracy of hundreds,
not really, because I mean most people are just going
through their day. They just like they know they're working
on the ship. They're not looking at the bow on
it say oh fuck, didn't they used to say Olympic
you know.

Speaker 4 (23:20):
Yes, And it's not like you could take the ships
and switch their berths, right, So there's that too, mm.

Speaker 6 (23:28):
Hmm, Yeah, it's okay. The middle of the night, you
guys swapped places?

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Do it?

Speaker 6 (23:34):
Like Freaky Fried years.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
There musical births, musical births like midnight and they turned
on the music and this which ships? Which places?

Speaker 6 (23:43):
Yeah? Yeah, I could Sacks is playing. But still, I mean,
all you have all these things, you've got, you know,
the porthole counts, the deck layouts, the impressions that there's
just so many cracks you know in the in the
in the story that you kind of have to wonder, okay,

(24:03):
so you know I can see it. I mean, it's
not like this would be the first case or even
the biggest case of insurance fraud.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
True, So you know what this means, right, This means
that the Titanic is officially the unsinkable conspiracy theory.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
I see what you did?

Speaker 6 (24:23):
That, well done?

Speaker 4 (24:29):
Yeah, that was that was one of the the things
that really kind of stump me. That they would have
everybody would have to keep quiet or everybody would have
to be disappeared somehow, you know, And there is no
record that anybody, you know, had bad luck and died,
like hundreds of them that had built the ships had

(24:49):
passed away or moved away or you know, there was
no track of that. Nothing ever came from that.

Speaker 9 (25:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:00):
I mean, also, this is nineteen twelve. You know, fifty
bucks goes a long way. This is true, but still,
you know, but still it's kind of like, holy shit, no,
you know, I you.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
Know, and forensics was very very cool.

Speaker 6 (25:14):
Hundreds of people died and I'm going to keep my
mouth shut for fifty bucks, I don't think, so open
up that check pook JP.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
I can't imagine it.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah, no, I mean, and look, I mean this is
still technically against beers E theory, but I mean, I
mean it could be that.

Speaker 4 (25:42):
We can tie that to another one. Hey, all of
these people that you know, they paid off. The payoffs
were like dwindling, and here comes the flu epidemic of
nineteen eighteen to wipe them all out. I mean, you
can tie it to another one.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Well, that's what I was absolutely unlus.

Speaker 6 (25:59):
You got War one going on.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Yeah, I mean we're in the middle of World War One.
You've got the flu epidemic that hit just a few
years later. So I mean there's a good chance that
people may have just been going just dealing with so
much different craft that they never even they never even
thought about putting the dots together.

Speaker 6 (26:14):
Yeah, did anybody ever check to see if everybody who
worked on those dogs got sent to the.

Speaker 4 (26:19):
Front lines?

Speaker 6 (26:21):
Front lines? Yeah, you're all conscripted now.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
But yeah, and you know, yes, the theory goes that
the intent was to sink the Olympic disguised as the
Titanic for insurance from.

Speaker 6 (26:43):
And for other reasons. We will be the reason, just
the insurance fraund thing. There there's a lot of uh,
there's a lot of signs that point.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
To yes in this that there's a lot of threads.
There's a lot of what do you call it web
web threads, you know.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
By the time we're by the time we're done talking
about this, the insurance fraud angle is gonna be the
lesser of a lot of these threats. Yeah, because because
it's because it's money and it's there, and it was
a way that they figured out that they could fix
the fick, fix the ship that was becoming a huge problem.
But if what if, if what happened happened in the
way that we are going to be discussing it tonight,

(27:22):
there was a much bigger reason they sank the ship,
and it may have even been on purpose.

Speaker 6 (27:30):
Well all all, all, every one of these stories points
to them doing it on purpose. You know, is it one?
Is it both of them?

Speaker 8 (27:37):
Is it?

Speaker 13 (27:39):
You know?

Speaker 6 (27:40):
It's either one the other or both. So, I mean,
there's a lot going on with this, and.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
I guess that leads to the second part of that theory.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
That leads to the break is what that leads to, Kay,
you're dumping.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
The gun man, he insists, we take breaks around here.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
Wow, gosh, okay, fine, whatever, I'll wait.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
I know I either either either I either missed the
notes though, or I wasn't told what to use for breaks, So.

Speaker 6 (28:15):
Whatever, don't whatever, Wait the Belfast. Jeff just sent me
this in discord. The Bellfast shipyards didn't keep that kind
of work or war connection and British military service roles

(28:37):
weren't cross reference to specific industrial projects. Probably those nuts, yes,
probably for reasons, just saying. And also from Jeff uh
when war broke out in nineteen fourteen, thousands of Harlem
and the wolf Man, those were those the shipyards that

(28:58):
both the ships were in, especially from Belfast. The thirty
six thirty sixth divisions show heavy proportion of shipyard workers,
and of the fifty thousand men in that division, over
five thousand were killed.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Hmmm. Fun times, fun times.

Speaker 6 (29:20):
So it is reasonable to assume that a ton of
the shipworkers that were on that died in the war.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, that is It is entirely plausible. All right, So
did you have anything you wanted me to play for
the breaks? Okay? No, well I didn't. I've been here
for like fifteen minutes, so I didn't start finding anything
yet either. So I was wondering if you had an either, Well.

Speaker 6 (29:45):
If we just want to go into the next segment,
skip the break and just go to the bottom of
the hour, I can do that too. I'm still fine
on my drink. I've been slipping, slipping slow. Jesus Christ,
heavy hand on that one already.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
How much of you drink?

Speaker 6 (29:57):
You actually just half a cup of tea, but with
the brandy and the amaretto in it. And boy I
did go heavy handed, all right.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
So yeah, let's just go in a segment two.

Speaker 6 (30:11):
Okay, So this we're talking about the insurance angle first,
you know, in the motive of JP Morgan and to
do this switcher roof for you know, insurance money. As
we talked about JP Morgan's put a lot of his
eggs in the the IMM basket. We keep talking about

(30:33):
the IM. It's the International Mercantile Marine. This was a
trust designed to consolidate all of his trans Olympic transatlantic
shipping industries under the control under his control. And while
it was ambitious, it wasn't really financially sound, you know,
between the costs of acquiring the ship lines like the
White Star and then to have the you know, the

(30:57):
collision with the HMS Hawk that that left it in
a precarious position.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
So I mean we talked about this earlier. This actually
left this now organization in a very floundering and precarious
position with a ship it couldn't generate profit, but also
kept demanding more and more money for repair costs. So
the insurance angles actually central to the switching theory. That

(31:31):
Titanic was fully insured for around one million pounds at
the time, that was a massive sum of money, while
the Olympic, because of its collision and being ruled at fault,
was not only not insured but unable to be insured.
So from a cold financial perspective, Titanic was worth more
to Morgan and White Star sunk than Olympic was afloat.

(31:54):
So the argument goes that Morgan, a man known for
his ruthless pragmatism in business, would not hesitate so away
the loss of a ship against the preservation of his
now precarious financial empire.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Sorry, I felt like that needed that there.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
Yeah, from all accounts, JP Morgan was ruthless in all
aspects of his life.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
There.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
I remember reading rumors about the way he treated those
closest to him, and it wasn't pretty. So I can't
imagine him being very kind to people he didn't have
in his immediate circle, or you know, he just considered
people who worked for him. So he was a very

(32:51):
ruthless binanceer. Would he be willing to take the steps
to sink a ship full of people.

Speaker 6 (32:58):
Just to.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Get his way a year on? You know when it
comes to the FED I don't know. I don't know
if he is capable of something like that. But it
was rather odd that three of the biggest critics against
the Federal Reserve were a board, And it is rather

(33:21):
odd that JP Morgan was supposed to be a board
but he canceled his ticket because of illness. But weirdly,
he also had several pieces of art that were a
board that belonged to him also removed. Those pieces of
art were supposed to go to New York and you know,

(33:45):
through his home there, so everybody thinks, wow, that's kind
of weird. And then there are reports that he was
seeing the day after that in Paris quite healthy.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
So yeah, not on a sick bed after all, were you,
mister Morgan? No, No, not really. But there's more to
this though, because one of the biggest things that everybody
talks about was the lifeboats, the lifeboat shortage. So this
is another thing that everybody's put under massive scrutiny because
the Titanic carried lifeboats for only about half of its
passenger load. So a lot of folks have been like, well,

(34:20):
of course they did. This was framed as this was
framed historically as an unsingable ship, and the lifeboat a
coverage was part of outdated regulations and misplaced confidence in
the ship's unsingable design. But look at this from another perspective.
If this man is as ruthless as we are claiming
that he is, how much easier is it to keep

(34:43):
your narrative alive if not as many people are alive
to question it.

Speaker 6 (34:49):
Yeah, and you know a lot of the people who
question this is like, so, you know, they just knew
that the ice the iceberg was going to be there. No,
this ship was going to be scuttled. I mean that's
there were sections of it that were sealed off that
nobody had access to, and so the iceberg was just

(35:11):
kind of a happy accident, you know, well, yes, juncture
with the.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Scuttling, yes, and no, it was sort of an accident.
But I don't know if you recall there was a
book that came out I think it was called I
want to say Futility, and it was renamed the Wreck
of the Titan for radio, and that book came out
in eighteen ninety eight, and there are parallels about the

(35:38):
ship and how it sinks because it strikes and the
name of the ship was the titan and it sunk
in the rth Atlantic because of an iceberg. And people
actually asked the author if he was clairvoyant or everything. No,
it turns out that he had worked in the shipyards,

(36:01):
he had worked with shipping and he knew all of
the how the Gulf stream and all of how the
icebergs actually moved in that area, and that's why he
wrote the book when he did.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
And so it is.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Possible that people did know the possibility of an iceberg
being in that area at that particular point in the
in the calendar year. That could have actually been part
of the plan. I mean, I know it's a far thread.
It is a very thin, very weak thread. But I

(36:40):
always thought that it was kind of interesting that this
guy writes this book because of his knowledge of the waters,
knowing that an iceberg would be there at that time
of the year, and here comes a Titanic and there's
an iceberg at that time of the year.

Speaker 6 (36:54):
You know, yeah, I mean, that's like you said, that's
quite the crapshoot there that you know. It's I mean, yes,
like quicksand we don't hear about it anymore, but you know,
we were brought up thinking, oh my god, icebergs are everywhere.
But yeah, I mean it's a crapshoot. So I mean, obviously,
you know, the scuttling was the fallback plan because you know,

(37:16):
it is the maiden voyage and boilers can blow up
and you know, with cataclysmic damage, so you know, but
you know, the iceberg that's like, hey, great, you know
we you know, we didn't have to do anything that
would raise questions for the people that did make it
to the lifeboats.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Well well, so, so just to point out, you know
the fact that it seems like mister JP Morgan may
have been a diabolical asshole. So we've already pointed out
that he had this lavish suite that he was supposed
to be, you know, sailing across in that he never
then he basically removed himself from the voyage and took
his art.

Speaker 6 (37:57):
With all his bronze statues and his art, and yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
But there were other people that were associates of his
that were supposed to be on the boat that didn't
make the trip either.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
That was another weird thing that his associates, the people
that were working with him towards this federal reserve plan
and whatever, decided not to go on the ship either.
Now it's possible that, oh, I'm not going on the ship. Well,

(38:29):
if he's not going to be there, then I won't
be there either. You know, some people are like that, like, oh, oh,
if he's not going, then I'm not going, you know,
because they wanted to like either keep up the networking
or brown nosing or wanting to a little bit of
that rich lifestyle to rebuff on them. You know, for
whatever reason, it's possible that that's what happened, but it's

(38:53):
very suspicious.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
But here's the other part of this, though, because when
you look at this, it almost reads like some sort
of a script written the macisimized Morgan's game with either
coincidence or potentially careful orchestration, because while a lot of
his folks didn't show up, a lot of his rivals
still got on a boat. Yes.

Speaker 6 (39:14):
Yeah, And that's what always kind of screams at me
about this is that, you know, with the Titanic being
the crown jewel of White Star lines at the time,
you know, until the Britannic was to be launched, but
at the time that you know, this was the bell
of the ball and almost everyone from IMM and JP
Morgan's circle was just decided to not take the trip.

(39:37):
I mean, this is like, you know, at the time,
to put this in perspective, this is like being a
movie star and not going to the Oscars. It's like
being a recording artist and not going to the Grammys.
You're going to be seen, You're going to show off.
You know, you're gonna go get all the pats on
the back and oh, you know, Chip Chip fantastic ship

(39:58):
kind of bullshit. You're not gonna us out on that.
You know, this was a social event. This was the
social event of nineteen twelve.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, it was like Rick was.

Speaker 6 (40:09):
Saying the list of the who's who's who were to
be on the ship, and by coincidence, who were not
versus those who were. It's like all of JP Morgan's competitors,
not all of them, but you know a significant portion
of the most powerful were on the ship, and nobody

(40:30):
from White Star could be asked to go.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, I mean it's just you know me, I'm one
of those people that really doesn't believe in coincidences. And
we just outlined four separate coincidences just in the last
forty minutes.

Speaker 4 (40:49):
That's that's that's what they say. One time is this,
twice is coincidence, three times conspiracy. We're at four or
five six.

Speaker 6 (40:57):
Now see, And you know it's the argument is you know,
the scuttling plot, you know, it's two dangers of it
at risk, you know, but you know, Morgan has a
history of doing these insane financial risks that you know.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Well, not well attempting them, but not only just attempting them,
but actually managing to pull off some things that a
lot of people would think were impossible. And that's just it.
I mean, everybody's everybody that argues is like it would
have been too hard to pull off, It would have
been impossible. I mean, we just talked about one of
the biggest ones in the first segment. There were hundreds
of people involved in repairing the Olympic and getting the

(41:43):
Titanic ready to sail, So how come none of them
said anything? And then, you you know, give a wink
week nuts nudge to the fact that there was a
war going on around that same time, and a lot
of them may have been shipped off, never to be
heard from again, along with a flu that broke out
just a few years later. And it's just kind of
like eh, and then you're just looking at all this
and it's like, so, yes, is it is it? Is

(42:05):
it impossible?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
No?

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Is it unlikely? I'm not even sure I could say
that anymore because again the fact that I mean, honestly,
the only the only thing that I think Morgan did
tipped it off. He should have let some of his
buddies die to.

Speaker 4 (42:22):
I mean, that would have sealed it.

Speaker 6 (42:24):
Yeah, you know that absolutely, But and you know it's
I mean, not to get political on this. We talked
about well that's you know, there's a lot of people
that would have had to have been involved in you know,
is anybody really this callous? And all you got to
do is point at the Arkansis list and Haiti with the.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
U CIA using crack on our people.

Speaker 6 (42:45):
Right, Yeah, I mean it's but I mean, and you know, comparatively,
you know, and I just made a Clinton reference, comparatively,
the Clintons were never ship compared to JP Morgan at
his peak, you know, it's like, I mean, they they
never reached his lofty heights. So you know, I'm thinking
of that line from Dave is you know, it's like

(43:06):
you can't kill him. It's like he's an ordinary man.
I can kill an ory man. I can kill ten
ordinary men. You know. That's you know, so you know,
you know that you put yourself in a mindset that
we're just fucking ants to these people, you know, and
doesn't concern yourself with the opinions of the ant.

Speaker 4 (43:25):
That's why, you know, like MD says that the war
didn't start for at least another two years later after that.
The thing is, that's not a long period of time
because there was there there was instability going on elsewhere
outside of that.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
You know. So so it's well, so yeah, that's right.
But another thing I want to point out is we're
used to living in the twenty first century where information
travels now at light speed. I mean, they're they're literal
cables underwater that shoot information at near light speed now
Indians now. But that that didn't happen then. So even

(44:05):
if there was a rumbling, it would have taken months,
potentially a year or more to start building up enough
to start being noticed anywhere, and by then a lot
of the upheavals and everything else had already been started.

Speaker 6 (44:19):
Well, you know, the other thing to throw in this too,
is that this accident occurred just a couple months before
imn's bomb payments were due, and a successful insurance payout
like this would stabilize the bank sheet for Morgan and imm.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
For quite some time.

Speaker 6 (44:44):
But you know, and then, you know, with all the
you know, the women and children first ethic and the
stories of the survivors and everything, anybody trying to cry
out saying, hey, you know that was really the Olympic,
and you know I work in the yards and you
know this is what really happened, they would have just
been ignored as a kook pretty much. I mean, well,
let me think, like you were talking about, with the

(45:05):
speed of the internet, now we can we can believe
whatever we want within fifteen seconds after it happens.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
But uh, because we're gonna be able to see it
in near real time. That's that stuff didn't happen like that.
And I mean not to put too fine a point
on this, but I am in was in real trouble. Yeah,
like nobody really, nobody really talks about the depths of this.
So as bad as this sounds a payoff, like you said,
that would have been able to allow him to recoup

(45:33):
all his losses and can and if he didn't the
entire i AM consolidation project, was it a risk. So yes,
it's a very dark thing that we're talking about, but
in fact it would have been his lifeline.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
There are people who are like that that I'm serious
that they would consider just destroying an entire city just
to you know, for insurance frun.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
I know that we see it on not to put
too fine a point, look at what's happening in California
right now. The governor of California has basically been committing
fundraising fraud and getting away with it. So it does happen.

Speaker 6 (46:14):
Yeah, I mean it's mochiavellian, but it's I mean, these
ethos exist. They you can't deny that they do that
they don't. And you know, while it seems like that,
you know there's no way, you know, that's normy thinking,
you know, thinking there's no way that someone would do
There's absolutely somebody.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Who do this.

Speaker 6 (46:34):
You know, it's an I wouldn't put it past JP Morgan.

Speaker 13 (46:40):
I mean he was.

Speaker 6 (46:43):
He was absolutely Scrooge McDuck without the likability.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Yeah, or the Tartan had the money been but none
of the cuddles.

Speaker 6 (46:55):
Yes, no, No, he was.

Speaker 4 (46:56):
Definitely not a likable person.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
He was not like he was.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
He was respected in his field, but he was not liked.
As a matter of fact, I seem to recall that
Benjamin Guggenheim, whose brother Solomon actually was a big philanthropist
and founded the Guggenheim Museum and the Solomon Guggenheim Foundation

(47:22):
and everything. Benjamin had remarked that there was there was
no reasoning with JP Morgan once Morgan actually set his
mind to something, and that was one of the that
was one of the reasons why they were like headbutting

(47:44):
over this the Federal Reserve issue, because Morgan would not much.
He was insistent that that it had to happen his way,
end of discussion. So somebody of that type of character,
once he set his mind to doing something, I can

(48:04):
completely see him doing something like this. I know it's
I know, it's it's huge. I mean, over so many people,
hundreds of people died. But yeah, people that meant anything to.

Speaker 6 (48:19):
Him, right, they weren't his shareholder. They weren't his stockholders exactly,
you know, and you know, and we're gonna be talking
about it in the next second segment the people who
actually were on the boat. There's motive enough alone, you know.
I mean, it's you know, we've seen through history where

(48:39):
you know, massive atrocities have been done to get to
one person, so you know, and so putting it on
you know, this scale, this level, and not just with
Imm's future at stake, but with another project we're gonna
be talking about being at steak as well. Yeah, it's Geevey,

(49:02):
what what's a few thousand people? You know, there's millions
more where they came from, billions now.

Speaker 13 (49:08):
So.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
And well, think about this, think about this from another
perspective real quick, because you just made a very valid point.
How many times from that era in history have we
heard I can make more, I don't need you when
somebody's talking one of their kids or something.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
So it's not like that.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
That wasn't even like a prevalent mindset of the day,
like if you piss me off, I can kill you.
I can always make another of you. So I mean, hell,
I grew up in the seventies and my dad told
me that almost every weekend. I brought you into this world.
I can take your ass out.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Yeah, I was, I bess dad saying that to me.

Speaker 6 (49:59):
So now my drink is absolutely empty.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Nice. All right, Well, since we found the music, you
wanted to go ahead and play it now, so we
can go grab rinks and stuff.

Speaker 6 (50:08):
Yeah, let's do that, all right. Let me skip a
station identification and do that.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Yeah, my bad.

Speaker 6 (50:18):
I thought I had sent that to you when Jeff
crafted it for me, but I couldn't find it in
the DM, so that was my failure.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
It's all good. I was looking for one thing and
you already sent it to me, thinking I missed it,
and I'm like, it's not it's not all right, hang on,
I gotta log back in again every time.

Speaker 6 (50:40):
Well, Aggie, thank you for staying up with us for
this one.

Speaker 4 (50:44):
It was fun.

Speaker 6 (50:46):
Well we're not done. We've still got a whole other hour.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
We're not done.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
It has been fun so far. Is that better?

Speaker 1 (50:55):
She was just hoping.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
It's like for me that all time is relative. It
just flows.

Speaker 6 (51:04):
Boy, that's munch time, doubly so.

Speaker 14 (51:08):
All right.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
So this is another fresh creation from our programming director.
The Alien known as Jeff. We'll be right back.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Dune one ship, where's Another's name?

Speaker 14 (52:00):
And the mascots, the frame stills the way Si mills
a blow on the tide of deceit.

Speaker 13 (52:16):
The kill bends and the.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Secrets a case sty.

Speaker 9 (52:23):
Side.

Speaker 13 (52:25):
It's got to.

Speaker 9 (52:26):
Come bene the.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Side.

Speaker 14 (52:34):
Shot. They all shot, so shallows walk can a sack
of skin. The mascular race sails, the mascul race. Han

(53:02):
Chan hands that by the missay.

Speaker 9 (53:07):
Say a chasen a.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Sign and.

Speaker 14 (53:16):
It's that black dead beneath the.

Speaker 9 (53:21):
High the sign shut, the shot.

Speaker 13 (53:41):
Seats left empty, tickets never.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Torn, fortunes ashore while the.

Speaker 9 (53:49):
Cold was born, stealing disguise.

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Morgan's unseene by him to.

Speaker 10 (53:57):
The drowned fan on rock, get scared.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Contracts it and salts and rust.

Speaker 9 (54:27):
Every buyer built on trust, but the tide takes salt
without a name and drowns.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
The question pulled the book signed in.

Speaker 14 (54:47):
That bat said beneath the first I the side shock
They out.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Sunda and we're back. We took the break in a

(55:52):
weird spot because we didn't have the music until now.

Speaker 6 (55:55):
But we're back, Okay, you know real quick on the
last bit to you know, not being Sunday. I was
surprised he did this. But Jeff did the math. Sinking
the Olympic, you know, he crunched number. Sinking the Olympic
disguise with the Titanic, he yields one hundred in today's
dollars one hundred and sixty million dollar cash injection into
the company, and still keeps the in service Titanic branded

(56:18):
as the Olympic, which earned roughly seven hundred and thirty
six million in adjusted over two decades. So that's almost
a billion dollars versus just four million to keep an
unprofitable Olympic afloat.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
I mean, technically it's almost Sunday.

Speaker 6 (56:34):
So yeah, So these were four million to sink a
headache ship, nine hundred million worth of insurance and future
earning saved.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah, I mean sometimes math, I mean math is the
driving factor for a lot of things. Think about all this,
I mean, think about all the things they told us
when we were kids, about hey, if you see this
bright flash of light, go hide under your desk. They
knew that wasn't gonna work.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
Yeah, just made it easier to identify the bodies. Oh,
row row four, seat seven, that's already packered.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I mean, everybody who wonders why I have this trust
issue with authority. I'm like, you told me my desk
could double as a fallout shelter.

Speaker 6 (57:17):
What did you think was going to happen?

Speaker 1 (57:18):
When I was old enough to figure out you were
fullish shit?

Speaker 4 (57:22):
Fallout shelter, tornado shelter? What else? Earthquake shelter?

Speaker 6 (57:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we hide under earthquakes out here too.
So yeah. The reinforcement point. I was thinking about it
during the break rig. You know, it's like, you know,
would people really do something like this? I mean the
Navy and Operation Sea Spray sprayed biological agents over the
city of San Francisco just to see if they had work. Yeah,

(57:53):
so yes, people absolutely, Yeah. There are psychopaths everywhere.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
And they would absolutely do this, especially, I mean there
are origin kings. Think about this from from that perspective,
putting it into day's dollars, A four million dollar what
forty what was it for forty million? I don't remember.
Four million dollars, four million dollar loss basically versus one
hundred and sixty million dollar gain for sinking a ship.

(58:19):
I hate to say it, well, you know that's plausible
when you think about it from that perspective.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
The Olympic did keep going. It was a troop ship
for a while during the war, and it was in
service until the thirties.

Speaker 6 (58:35):
Yeah, nineteen thirty five. April nineteen thirty five was when
it was retired, and people asked, well, whatever happened to Britannic.
It was sunk in nineteen sixteen when it hit a
land mine or a sea mine. Land mine mine.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Sorry, hot fuzz just popped into it.

Speaker 6 (58:57):
So a billion dollars seems like a lot, but that's
just peanuts to what compared to what we're gonna be
talking about now when it happens with JP Morgan.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
All right, So, well, I don't usually separate mountains, so
I was gonna play the intro again, but I don't
usually split it into segments, so we don't really need
to do that. Well, we'll just yeah, we'll keep going.
Weird run.

Speaker 6 (59:19):
I mean, if you wanted to run it, I mean,
if you want to run it now, we could do that.
We already had the break.

Speaker 1 (59:24):
If you have the itch, no, we're good, keep going, Okay.

Speaker 6 (59:29):
Yeah, So just a year after the sinking of the Titanic,
we have what is Levingly referred to as the Beast
from Jackal Island comes into play, and that is the
Federal Reserve Act, and in December nineteen thirteen, Congress passed it,
creating the central banking system that has reshaped global finances.

(59:53):
We understand it today in filuent. You know, we're gonna
be talking about the people who were against it, that
were on the ship. But I mean you're talking about
you know, JP Morgan, the Rothschilds, the war Birds, you know,
all these people who have just took their insane wealth
and made it insaner since the creation of the Federal Reserve,

(01:00:19):
you know, and it was sold that you know why
we need it is, you know, to stabilize banking. There
wouldn't be any more panics until the pressure words just
a few years later. But what this can do? What
what if you don't understand the Federal Reserve. It took
the full faith and credit the United States monetary system

(01:00:41):
and put it in the hands of a few private bankers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah, which is part of what drives me crazy about
these I call them things Schrodinger's Bank because it exists,
according to those who talk about it, in two perpetual
states at the same time, it is either an extension
of the federal government, were separated and independent from the
federal government, and in each state at the same time,
depending on depending upon who you ask.

Speaker 6 (01:01:06):
So he's like Amtrak.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
These newer rulings that are going to be coming out
from the Supreme Court could be fun. But you know,
one thing that I feel like we kind of need
to go over is the fact that you know, for
those of us that are conspiracy theorist or do conspiracyment shows.
So the juxtaposition of the events of the sinking of
the Titanic and just a year later the beginning of

(01:01:29):
the Federal Reserve that likely would have been stopped if
not for all the people that sank on the Titanic
is not lost on a lot of folks. And yes,
I had to bring the name of the show in
on purpose. Had to be done. Beautifully done, Yeah, well crafted.

Speaker 6 (01:01:46):
So let's talk about some of these names. First, You've
got John Jacob Astor, and he's the centerpiece of this
theory in that he was one of the richest men
in America and he had all the resources and connections
to resist Morgan's push of the Federal Reserve. He was
very public about his skepticism of central banking, and he

(01:02:09):
opposed the fence creation outright. He died on the Titanic,
and that removed one of the biggest heels to Morgan's plan.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
So the thing about it is is in this is
this is part of what happened. So that fortune that
was once independent and under his control was actually absorbed
in the trust that did not challenge the system in
the same way. So Morgan basically removed one of his
biggest obstacles with one Iceberg and the Olympic.

Speaker 12 (01:02:49):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:02:49):
And the other one was a family that you brought
up in the last set, Aggie, and that's the Guggenheims.
You know, they're mining and smelting, you know, conglomerates. They
held a lot of influence and you know, in finance,
and you know, while they weren't as outspoken of it,
they were also skeptical of the Federal Reserve.

Speaker 4 (01:03:08):
They were very leery of it because of the different
industries that they were in. They weren't just in smelting,
but alive in a needlework. Their empire started with embroidery
on garments, so that was you know, the textile industry,

(01:03:28):
and then they were in the smelting so they had
different you know, they had a lot of eggs in
different baskets. So they saw how the economy worked in
each of those sectors and thus were very aware of
They were very resistance to having a federal reserve because

(01:03:49):
of that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:52):
Yeah, you hear about these companies today where you know,
people talk about Haliburton or black Rock or whatever. It's like, oh,
they got their you know, Messanto, they got their fingers
in every thing. Well they learned it from these people.
You know, the people were talking about tonight. They're the
ones who invented a diversified portfolio. So I mean they
were in every segment of the economy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Well, well it's not just that. So not only did
they learn all the diversification tactics from these folks, but
they also learned all the centralization tactics from these folks.
Because if you'll notice, that's the new buzzword for communists
is the word central planning. Yes, so it's funny that

(01:04:35):
they were talking about this thing central banking over one
hundred years ago and not really realize, Well, I guess
the people that were fighting it. I think realized what
it was that they were trying to do, which was
give a lot of wealth and power to we select
few people. I mean, you know, not to go very political,
but we're in a fight right now with the Fed.
Trump is trying to get rid of members of the

(01:04:57):
Fed and they're resisting, which is why we're to find
out is it a bankraft in a flag or is
it actually an extension of the executive branch. I will
be very curious to see what happened with that ruling.
That's both.

Speaker 6 (01:05:11):
Excuse me, I said, it is both. It's Schroinger's Bank. Yeah.
Another one you had on there was is it or
Strauss from Macy's yeo?

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
And he oh wait sorry, So you know he was.

Speaker 6 (01:05:32):
He was a very outspoken opponent of the Federal Reserve
as well, and he was another one along with Astro,
that could have wielded an ext enormous amount of influence
on Congress to go to push it the other way.
And again, these are all people that were on the boat.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
And you know, just just to bring this point back
home in case we've got new people that that are
just joining us. Morgan was supposed to be on the boat.
Morgan wasn't on the boat, and Morgan was photographed shortly
thereafter after claiming to be ill in France rather looking
quite healthy.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
Oh and Morgan's associates also decided not to go on
the boat.

Speaker 6 (01:06:15):
Yeah, you know it. You know, it's like we said
last you know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
And Morgan's art did not go on the boat either.
And because you know how I am about art, the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Art there either. To me, that's actually the fishiest part,
right because I can kind of see, you know, I
don't feel well, I'm not going, and all of his
buddy's going. Well, if he's not going, I'm not going
because I'm not going to be able to row elbows
with him and it's not going to be a good
network networking opportunity. Blah blah blah. Pulling the art off
the boat is that bad?

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
Yeah, that to me is weird because you're you were
he was taking the art back to the States for
you know, to be displayed in his in one of
his homes, or at least one or two of his
homes wherever, you know, wherever he wanted to display it.
But that was the purpose. He was bringing this art back.
So if he were ill, no, the art could still

(01:07:13):
travel no problem. He would actually send a cable to
have an emissary pick it up. That would have been it.

Speaker 6 (01:07:22):
And this was when it was still a high trust
society too, where you're not thinking, you know, I can't
lay it on the boat, somebody's going to steal. Well,
I mean not just like you were, not just talking
like pieces of art, I said, huge broaze statues.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Yes, yeah, and it wasn't. It wasn't a Mona Lisa
nine by twelve. No, not that these were big, massive
things that he had. So I'm like, why would you
take those off the boat and then have to put
them back on another boat when you know the boat
would have just taken them. But no, and it's not

(01:07:56):
like he couldn't afford to have them shipped by the Titanic.
It would have saved them the headache of having to
remove that put them in storage somewhere so that he
could sail with them later on.

Speaker 6 (01:08:10):
Plus I mean not just that, just I mean thinking
about it. Whenever you move art, you risk damaging it,
no matter how kid gloves you are with, especially bronze statues,
because that shit's not light, you know, I mean, even
if you create it up and put a whole bunch
of hay in there, and shit, shit gets jostled where

(01:08:32):
it's in a nice state room, sailing its happy way
back to the United States in all the luxury that
Morgan couldn't we didn't feel well enough to enjoy himself.
You know. That's that is to me that, like with you,
that is a bigger indictment of this whole thing. It's

(01:08:53):
as big as the monocular is not being in a
crow's nest. You know, that's always played offs like oh,
somebody forgot. That's not you know, that's like you know,
they forgot to put the steering wheel in. It's not
just like an accouterment. It is something that is an
absolute necessity for the ship to operate. And you know,

(01:09:13):
the next question comes, there were no other binoculars on
the ship anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Well, it wasn't just that, So you know, since you
brought that point up, there were other things that were
kind of being brought up in that same vein, Like
there was almost no drills being run by the crew,
like none.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Yeah, no, there were no.

Speaker 3 (01:09:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:32):
The eyewitness is a survivor's accounts when asked about that, Yeah,
there were no drills. Nobody's it drills. There were no
is what is a drill. But to get back to
the binocular thing, as y'all know, most of the time,
if we're using them for outdoor use, we leave them
outside so they're acclimatized. You were moving into a very

(01:09:53):
cold area. So to bring the binoculars inside and then
bring them outside, it's just, yeah, it goes contrary to
the you couldn't use them, so you might.

Speaker 6 (01:10:06):
If they're going to fog up, they're going to be
there inaccurate. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:11):
Yeah, So so that's what I never understood. I you
know that it h I've never heard of a process
not having at least one pair of binoculars.

Speaker 6 (01:10:25):
Yeah, at least one pair. I mean again, this is
White Star lines. They're not so cheap that they're not
going to have a backup pair, you know. Up in
the crowds. I was like, well, fuck, oh, yeah, there
they are. You know, it's like, you know, you're talking
what you were talking about with the drills, Rick, you know,
it's like, I don't know if you've ever been on
a cruise ship, but that's the first thing you do

(01:10:47):
when you're underway. I think the last cruise I was
on before we even got out of sand Paiedro, when
we were still coming out of La Harbor, we all
had to go to the decks.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
We all had to have our.

Speaker 6 (01:10:56):
Life vests on, we all had to be drilled on
life boats. And then go have yourself fun on the
lido deck, go play some piegal as soon as we
get out of you know, out in the international water.
You know that. I mean, that's it's what you do.
It's the first thing you do. And whether that's because
of the Titanic or the title or was already in
place in the Titanic just said, you know, we don't

(01:11:17):
want to bother these people in Tuxi, those with life
vests and shit. So I'm not buying that either, because
that's something that it's what you do, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
I don't care how unsinkable they thought the thing was.
I mean, think about think about this from another perspective.
I could almost see this if it was like nineteen sixties,
nineteen seventies America. But we're talking about nineteen hundreds year,
like nineteen hundreds Europe. These people were sticklers for every
fucking thing, like all of it.

Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
Yeah, and I mean especially the British who have traditions
about traditions.

Speaker 3 (01:11:51):
You know, so.

Speaker 1 (01:11:53):
We're British, are traditions have traditions about tradition.

Speaker 6 (01:11:59):
But I mean, I mean, you know, and it's the
people who weren't on the boat that you think this
should have been on the boat were like anyone from
the Rothchild family. None of them were on the boat,
you know, And if you don't know who they are,
I can't help you. I've actually gotten into a fight
on Twitter with a roth Child with.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
It an actual roth show.

Speaker 6 (01:12:18):
Yeah wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, a random roth Child appeared.
I'll send you. Somebody sent me the screenshot of it.
It's like Ordy encounters are random. A roth Child in
the wild, So I'll send that up. But yeah, So,

(01:12:38):
I mean, and you know, Paul Larburg, he wasn't on it.
You know, he was the one who actually was the
architect of the Federal Reserve Act. You know, all these
people are tied to Morgan and you know the network
of financiers. There's it's got to seem like more of
a motive. And you know, not just who was on
the boat, but who was not. Again, I want to

(01:13:01):
you know, drive this point home. This was the social
event of the year. There was nothing bigger to go
to England to take the Titanic back. It was that big.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:13:12):
It wasn't like, hey, i'll go if you buy the
ticket kind of thing, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
Nope, it was it was supposed to be, you know,
the thing I mean of the of the decade, at
the very least at this at this point there were
you know, several countries were having issues with each other,
but nobody thought that Great War was coming or anything

(01:13:38):
like that. But this event, this was supposed to usher
in the decade, the most opulent decade, I guess. And
so yeah, you're right. There were people that actually travel
to England to take the book back to America because
they wanted the experience of the time. Dam It was

(01:14:01):
supposed to be the be all and end all of
all luxury liners, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:14:06):
And this is when spectacles were spectacles, you know, when
you know, these things were hyped up and all the
world was watching, you know, it's everybody was digesting it,
especially the Angle files. So I mean, this was huge.
And for the people who were not on the boat,
that screams at me. That really does.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
And I know, I keep saying this. But to me
at this point, it doesn't even the people not being
on the boat again that that's that's hair on the
back of the neck Tingley, the art being pulled from
the boat is what the fuck?

Speaker 6 (01:14:42):
I just.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
I can't get past that. Why would you took all
the time to get it loaded on the ship and
now because you got a tummy bug, you're gonna pull
it off?

Speaker 6 (01:14:51):
Eh?

Speaker 8 (01:14:52):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
No, So it was either never there to begin with
and people thought it was, or he pulled it off
because there's no way, I mean, because it's not like
he wasn't still coming back to America. I just I
can't get past that part. Yea, and you know and
ever and you know, everybody talks about you know, well,

(01:15:16):
this was the death of fifteen hundred people or one
hundred and sixty million dollars. What do you think fifteen
hundred people are worth to these people? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:15:26):
I mean, just in cold math, that's ten thousand ahead,
that's you know, worth it, you know, and getting back
to it too, you know the closed off sections, you
know that you know nobody had access to the uh
you know, crew instructions not to interfere. The strange delays

(01:15:48):
of the lifeboat launches. You know, I mean, all of
these things scream sabotage more than incompetence. I mean, so
once again, you know, this is what kind of drives
me nuts of everything I've heard about the movie and
everything I've seen on the Titanic, is that this is
the crown jewel of the White star Line, which is
the crown jewel of imm which is JP Morgan's current

(01:16:14):
love child, love child, thank you. So he's not just
going to hire a bunch of scrubs, He's going to
hire complete professionals, except for the captain who's also the
Captain of the Olympic.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Yeah. That was that was That was an etail I
was going to bring back around to the second because yeah,
the same guy that you know was supposedly holming the
Titanic on his main voyage. Yeah, Captain of the Olympic.

Speaker 6 (01:16:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
By the way, thanks for putting scrubs in my head
there for which one the song scrubs. I don't like
you right now.

Speaker 6 (01:16:46):
Okay, you're welcome, But I mean it just all screams
to this being planned and the ice just being a
happy accident.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I mean, I still, I firmly believe they had they
had planned on some point in scuttling the thing, because
I'm pretty sure there was there was, there was stuff
in those Zolow sections to help make sure that happened.

Speaker 6 (01:17:13):
And the fact that you had all of jpmore you know,
not all of them, but you had a number of
JP Morgans, not just financial rivals, but rivals for the
Federal Reserve Act who happened to be on the boat.
I mean, it just keeps coming back to you know,
it wasn't just insurance fraud, you know. I mean, yeah,
insurance fraud sounds great on you know, and then it's like,

(01:17:34):
holy shit, look at all these people that I can handle,
you know, get all these you know, thorns out of
my side at once.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
At once, and I mean, I mean again, this to me,
looking at this from a financial side, this becomes an
Ockham's Razor scenario because if these people hadn't died on
the Titanic, we might not we probably wouldn't have a
Federal Reserve today, right, And.

Speaker 6 (01:18:00):
It'd be interesting to see how many people who are
in with the Federal Reserve Act were also in with
the uh, you know, the creation of the income tax.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
So Morgan was big on that idea too, I believe
it was. Yeah, I think I believe you're right, he was.

Speaker 6 (01:18:17):
Yeah, So I mean, why not remove your opposition in
a violent fashion and discreet you know, I mean, it's
a lot easier to you know, sink a ship than
it is to plan a series of accidents.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
One giant accident is a lot easier to plan than
a bunch of small ones and a lot less moving parts.

Speaker 6 (01:18:48):
He did, we lose you?

Speaker 4 (01:18:49):
No, No, I'm here. I'm just like you know, how
your your mind goes down a rabbit hole when somebody
brings something up, and that's I come back to the art.
I'm I'm kind of like that. Emty knows how I
feel about the British Hell, everybody knows how I feel

(01:19:11):
about the British Museum. So, and of course, what happened
in Argentina this week, Oh my god, that is a
telenovella of epic proportions. But I won't get into that.

Speaker 6 (01:19:22):
Here, Okay, no sidebars. I got to know.

Speaker 4 (01:19:25):
Yeah, oh no, no, There was a a realtor had
put up a listing. On that listing was a photograph
and there was a painting hanging on the wall remember
they caught the girl. They caught the lady and her
husband or significant other whatever. And she is claiming that

(01:19:47):
that painting was left to her in an inheritance by
her father, which is completely true. But and but she's
saying that that she had, you know, the family had
providence and all this stuff, blah blah blah, which is
not true because that painting had providence already established over
in the Netherlands.

Speaker 3 (01:20:08):
So there was.

Speaker 4 (01:20:12):
So they started asking her about all the other art
that was there, because that wasn't the only thing that
was suspicious. There were quite a few pieces of art,
several prints, several sketches that were found as well.

Speaker 8 (01:20:27):
And so.

Speaker 4 (01:20:29):
Yeah, she's no longer talking. So she's in jail right
now awaiting trial, and her sister is nowhere to be found.

Speaker 6 (01:20:36):
Now what wasn't there also ties to I mean, was
it an art heist, because I seem to think that
there was no It was German theft of art.

Speaker 13 (01:20:48):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 4 (01:20:49):
The art belonged to an art collector and curator from
the Netherlands who fled the Netherlands when the Germans invaded.
He left everything behind. His collection was acquired by Hitler
and Gerring and their financial advisor, and the financial advisor

(01:21:12):
fled to Argentina with several works at the end of
the war, and that's where the you know, that's where
this this whole blu has happened. I mean, there's there's
a lot of stuff going over there in Argentina. Uruguay too,
don't blink, because Uruguay also has a lot of that history.

(01:21:34):
But yeah, so I'll I'll be reporting on that one
on Tuesday.

Speaker 6 (01:21:41):
I just can't. I just can't say without saying you
are gay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
That's all right, you know, since we've already crossed that
particular rubicon. I saw on an article today or the
other day that made me laugh like a ten year
old again because the biggest part of the headline was
uranus is leaking.

Speaker 6 (01:22:08):
We call it your rectum now. But just so many
of this, you know, before we go into the last break,
so much of this, and I'm starting to with you
it's not just the binoculars. It's not just the portholes anymore,
you know, it's not just who was on the boat.
It's the art. Yes, and is really starting to resonate

(01:22:33):
with me because for.

Speaker 4 (01:22:36):
All of its faults when they were doing the film
Titanic and everything. One of the things that they did
actually portray as having happened was a lot of artwork
was lost because there were a lot of rich people
that were bringing art that they had just bought from,

(01:22:57):
people like you know that had names like and Chagall
and all of these, you know, well known names. I'm
sure that I'm messing everything up, but there were renoirs,
there were you know, a bonnets aboard this ship that
went down with it. So and that's considered truly lost art.
I mean, there's no way to recover the cz you know,

(01:23:20):
it's a bit dissolved. But that is something that has
always bugged me, the fact that he removed these massive
works before the ship sailed.

Speaker 6 (01:23:37):
Yeah. One I'd like to have to send the chat to.
What a great way to inflate art prices? Oh yeah,
you know, when you have a whole lot of masters
get you know, artwork completely you lost, then what remains
goes up.

Speaker 4 (01:23:55):
Yes, it's one thing to have a collection by a
live artist. It's quite another to have a license from
a dead one.

Speaker 6 (01:24:02):
Yes. And I mean the one thing that this kind
of goes back to, if this was about insurance, why
didn't Morgan say that the art was lost at sea
as well, because you know that was insured.

Speaker 1 (01:24:17):
True, So that's something else.

Speaker 6 (01:24:19):
You can't show it off, and that's okay, but you
get that that's where you're taking you know, money over ego.
When ye killing off fifteen hundred people for money, that's
no problem. Losing art that you can't just claiming you
lost art you can't display for that's something else.

Speaker 4 (01:24:41):
But yeah, just are just unique, some unique pieces that
nobody else has anything quite like that. You know that
is one of a kind pieces. Yeah, I can see it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
So just to kind of put a bow on this
particular segment, because I mean, you know, there have been
historians that have been yelling forever that you know, these
three men, no matter how powerful and how wealthy, couldn't
have halted all of this single handedly. But again I'm
not so sure. So but again to the rest of us,
you know, conspiracy folks, you start adding up all the coincidences,

(01:25:15):
the lack of binoculars, too few life boats, lack of
drills to show people what to do with the lifeboats,
delays in launching the lifeboats, people that were supposed to
be on the boat that aren't there art that was
supposed to be on the boat that aren't there. You
start adding up all these coincidences, and that's just, in
my opinion, too many damn coincidences. So this brings up
and adds to the even broader narrative that we've been

(01:25:36):
talking about, which is the Titanic wasn't merely lost at sea.
It may have been a sacrificial vessel, with it taking
with it the last bashion of independent wealth that might
have stood against central banking. In this framing, the Iceberg
is less an accident of navigation and more a convenient
alibi for what amounts to financial murder. So, if true,

(01:26:01):
this disaster marks one of the most ruthless acts of
financial financial consolidation in our history. It would also mean
that the Federal Reserve, the institution that has controlled America's
money supply for more than a century, was born not
merely out of legislative debate, but of blood in the water.

Speaker 6 (01:26:20):
So yeah, Jac brings up. I think you're right. I
think it was Morgan that said I don't want lawyers
to tell me what I can and can't do. I
want lawyers to tell me how.

Speaker 1 (01:26:30):
And the scariest thing about that is, if you pay
attention to what lawyers do today, they all pretty much
do just that. Yep.

Speaker 6 (01:26:39):
Now to the point you raised too. You know, it's
like you know, with you know, those who don't believe
in the theory. You know that individually, those you know,
those people couldn't have done much to block the creation
of the Federal Reserve. You have to ask yourself, where
was William Randolfhurst following and all that? Yeah, where you know,
because of it? You know, because if that, you know,

(01:27:02):
yellow journalism was at his finest, then too. So you know,
if any of them, you know, had any financial interest
with her, the people who died on the Titanic and
any financial interest with hers or then yeah, or any
of the papers at the time, you know, who had
the biggest conglomerate of papers at the time to sway

(01:27:26):
public opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
M h it's just enough to make you go hmmmm.
I saw that, M D. Bob Ross.

Speaker 6 (01:27:40):
My spirit animal. I am the bob Ross of mental images.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
As soon as Aggie started calling the iceberg a happy
little accident, I was thinking of him bating trees.

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
So so take a break, I'll see if I can
find that and uh, swen Child thing. You can put
it up in the chat or not whatever, but yes,
I have encountered a rothschild in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
Yeah, all right, well, once you find it, we'll talk
about it. I guess. Let me get this cuebe back
up again again. We're just gonna replay this awesome song
that Jeff's just made specifically for this show. Dude, he's
getting really good at this stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:28:27):
It's so damn good at this.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
I will say this one might be a little too
medally even for me, but I still really like the lyrics.
Here we go again because I actually left the room
last time, so I'm gonna listen to most of it
this time.

Speaker 15 (01:28:41):
So one ship was Another's name, The discons lost, the flame.

Speaker 14 (01:29:32):
Still numbers now pay six kids. Mar is a blow
tide of deceit.

Speaker 10 (01:29:42):
The ki opens under secrets a case city.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Sign, the way It's got.

Speaker 10 (01:29:54):
Beneen, the stores, the sun and the shock.

Speaker 9 (01:30:01):
They all shot.

Speaker 14 (01:30:17):
So shadows can say skin the Mascularrae sells, the Mascular says.

Speaker 9 (01:30:28):
That Jack hands the bud say.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Says sign.

Speaker 10 (01:30:42):
It doesn't beneath the group sign.

Speaker 13 (01:30:49):
The sign shop.

Speaker 9 (01:30:53):
Shot, j.

Speaker 13 (01:31:07):
Seats left empty, tickets never torn for chose ashore.

Speaker 14 (01:31:14):
While the cold was born, stealing disguise Morgan's unseen by
him to the drowned and unbroken ski.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
Contract Saint and saults and rost.

Speaker 14 (01:31:54):
Every bier belt on frost, but the tide takes off
without and trous the questioning fool side noise that sad

(01:32:16):
the first.

Speaker 9 (01:32:20):
The side shock they have shot numble they side stop,

(01:32:48):
they out shot number.

Speaker 1 (01:33:13):
And welcome back into juxtaposition, ladies and gentlemen again. I
am Rick Robinson. He is Ordinance j Packard, and we
have very special guests this evening, my co host and
partner in crime for He's that. She said, I want
to give a thank you to Jeff for filling in
for me last night, because I don't know if you
can still hear it, but I'm I'm still kind of scratchy.
It was even worse yesterday, which is why I didn't
do anything else. But yeah, so I want to thank

(01:33:36):
Jeff for filling in. The alien takeover seemed to have
been successful from what I heard when I finally woke
up this morning.

Speaker 6 (01:33:44):
And then he had the bump stocks out tonight with
both the loss their boys. What do you what do
you all got back out there? In the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
It's it's the fall is sitting in early, so all
the stuff that usually gets us in about another few
weeks is hitting us now.

Speaker 4 (01:33:57):
Yep.

Speaker 6 (01:33:58):
Oh, so plans are having sex in your face again?

Speaker 1 (01:34:01):
Yes, exactly. All right, So before we get into the
next segment, I feel like I need to do some
housekeeping because MD made a very valid point in the
chat earlier that Rothschild actually lost his ticket in a
card game. My stance would be, why the hell would
you gamble with the ticket if you planned on going

(01:34:23):
and if you're like that wealthy, Because to me, that
seems like that's kind of like, oh, I'm going to
give myself an alibi. So if this pulls up in
my face, they're not going to think I'm a It's
not that I didn't want to go. I lost my
ticket in the card games.

Speaker 6 (01:34:39):
And I mean, did it happen on his way there?
Did it happen while they were waiting to get on
the boat. I mean, I can't just see that as
something that roth Child would carry around, you know, right,
you know it's like four days before I let you know,
I just happened to have the ticket on me in
a card game. You're a fucking rothschild, somebody. Your cufflings

(01:35:04):
probably have more value than the face than the face
value of that ticket.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
Oh actually, I think I got it now. I think
I think he was making a reference to the movie.
But I'm pretty sure I was busy by them. Ah
so uh anyway, Jack, Jack was kicking the car game. Yeah,
by the way he rose, there was enough room on
the door, you winch Yeah, that ho.

Speaker 4 (01:35:30):
Christine totally was. She loses a virginity to Jack in there,
and then she decides, you know what, I wonder what
else is out there? No, there's no space here, honey
by lets him go and then goes lift lives her
life and you know, and all those pictures that she
had up there, not one, not one had her husband
in it. Did you notice it was all her? I

(01:35:55):
rest my case.

Speaker 6 (01:35:56):
Yeah, No, I think I think Jack just didn't want
on the board. You know, this chick is gonna be
such a clinger.

Speaker 2 (01:36:05):
I'd.

Speaker 6 (01:36:08):
Yeah, gnaw my arm off. One of the things we
didn't bring up was the prop, the center prop. And
you know it's so the propeller serial number on the
Titanic Center propellers was stamped with four oh one. That's

(01:36:32):
the yard number four. It the Olympics version of it
was four hundred, which one is on the bottom of
the ocean. Four hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:36:40):
Done dune dune.

Speaker 6 (01:36:43):
Yeah, it's like, oh, you know they're just swapping parts. No,
that's not it works, that's not how you know what
we got the We got the Olympic over here, and
I just don't know where the center prop is for
the Titanic. Go grab that. No, you find out. This
isn't just like you know, hey, I can't find my
GPS or you know, it's you just use the one

(01:37:06):
out of the other truck.

Speaker 4 (01:37:07):
No, it's it's a vend number.

Speaker 6 (01:37:10):
Yeah, I mean these props are designed for the I mean,
even though the three sisters were somewhat identical, the props
are specifically designed for that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:37:26):
It's not like today where you just hey, you know,
I got a beach craft, I need a prop for
you or whatever. You know, it's these ships. It's specifically
designed for the ship.

Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
Yeah, I did that just again that that makes no
sense to me.

Speaker 6 (01:37:46):
Yeah, it just goes with everything that you know, the portholes.
You got to go back to the porthole, even without
the art. You know, the portholes, the deck windows, the
wear and tear, and you know, and here's the other thing.
So after the Titanic and the Britannic get's sunk in sixteen,

(01:38:07):
the Olympic goes on and serves for another twenty years.
So from the accident with the keel bending from the
HMS Hawk it was said to maneuver poorly. So the
one that maneuvers poorly is the one that remains in
service without any other incident for twenty years, nearly twenty

(01:38:27):
five years.

Speaker 10 (01:38:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:30):
So well that's the other thing I mean, because if
they declared the Olympic initially unensurable, how the hell did
it stay in service.

Speaker 6 (01:38:40):
Yeah, that's a hell of a risk.

Speaker 4 (01:38:44):
You know, the mine during the war, it was a
troop ship. It needed to be very safe, it needed
to be very hearty.

Speaker 6 (01:38:54):
Yeah, yeah, it just I mean, like you said though,
with it being uninsurable, you know, this isn't the kind
of thing where you got a new car and you know,
oh it's totaled out, but you can continue to drive
it and you get basic insurance. You're not gonna be
able to get liability insurance for a ship with a

(01:39:14):
bent keel.

Speaker 1 (01:39:17):
Yeah, that's like trying to get insurance on a car
with a bin frame. Yeah, that's called total motherfuckers.

Speaker 6 (01:39:24):
I mean, you know, the Formula I drive was totaled
when I laid it down, but that was just to
his insurance didn't want to, you know, pay to get
it fixed up. You know, it's and really it's just
a few dents and everything, and there's no frame damage
or anything like that, so I can still insure it.
But it's you know, the insurance company when you have

(01:39:44):
a bent keel, they're not just gonna like, you know what,
We're just not going to insure it because it's not
worth it anymore. Just go ahead and you know, you know,
we'll give you basic liability. You don't ensure that. It's
because that is a floating problem. I mean, it's a
floating death the trap at that point. Yeah, I mean
perfectly see where the vessels go ramming into aircraft.

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Carriers, especially if you're China. Oh wait.

Speaker 6 (01:40:13):
Yeah see.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
But no, I mean all all of this, you know,
is where as we're starting to wrap all this up,
I just I don't know. I mean, we've gone through
a lot of information and seen a lot of anomalies,
and again the whole the argument that, well, at some
point they just they went ahead and refit her with
sixteen portals. This was her maiden voyage, was it not.

Speaker 6 (01:40:38):
Yeah, yeah, when hey, you know what, we need those
two extra portholes, just go drow a hole in the
hole on sea deck.

Speaker 1 (01:40:46):
So sometime between I'm assuming what would have been a
shakedown cruise and her maiden voyage, they decided they needed
two extra portals.

Speaker 4 (01:40:57):
Well, I've you know, I tried to try to make sense. Hey,
you know what so and so wants an extra he's
paying this much money for that particular cabin suite. And
these things were like, you know, like in if you
saw the movie, these things were extravagant. Maybe somebody wanted

(01:41:20):
an extra window. But the thing is, you can't just
saw a hole and then put the full window on it,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
I mean, it would have been a lot of work
to make those structural changes. I mean, and I mean,
it's it's not it's so. It's in the fact that
the promenade deck windows were arranged differently than Titanic's original blueprints,
the fact that the proplem numbers different the proplem numbers different.
That was the serial number for the main prop of

(01:41:51):
the ship. That was her. That's her cue number four one.
It's stamped everywhere in the ship for identification purposes.

Speaker 6 (01:42:03):
Well, and Jeff brings up a good point too in
the chat. You said, you know, the ship that moves
horribly because of the bent keel could not dodge an
iceberg tracks Because I mean it's not like it's weaving
all over the place, you know, but still it's the
ship isn't going to maneuver the way you expect it to,
even if you've gotten used to that little quirk. You know,

(01:42:26):
It's kind of like when you got a car with
a low tire and you're trying to get to the
gas station to fill it up. It's not behaving how
you want it, and even when you get used to it,
you just it still doesn't do what you want it
to do.

Speaker 1 (01:42:37):
Well, Yeah, like the my car before before we got
the new one, you know, it was old enough that
it was starting to get kind of quirky, but I
knew how to drive it. There was a day that
my wife was driving it and she didn't realize that
because one of the last times she drove it she went,
she jumped a curb, that there were issues with the
brakes that I hadn't fixed yet, because I didn't worry

(01:42:57):
about it because I'm like, I know how to drive it.
I let her have it forgetting that the brakes were
kind of fed up, and next thing I know, we're
plowing into the back of a car. Because I probably
should add, but it's the same thing. I wasn't worried
about it because I'd dra it all the time. I
know how to make it. Behathe I didn't think about
her driving it and her not knowing how to do it.
But again, you know, keep in mind that the same this,

(01:43:20):
unless I'm mistaken, the same guy that was at fault
for the original incident with the Olympic was actually also
the one piloting that captaining the captain. So kind of
feeling like they wanted that fucker did I do? Didn't
You didn't go down with this ship, So we're gonna
rename it and you can try again.

Speaker 6 (01:43:41):
I mean, and that's you know, that's the kind of thing.
You you look at the concept of honor back in
the day too, you would he like, you know, you know, hey,
this is a huge staind on my reputation. I can't
get a job anywhere else. So, you know, after the
incident with a hawk, you know, fall on his sword
literally there, you know, fall on the iceberg. But you

(01:44:07):
know that may be stretching a bit, but then you also,
you know what's in the minds of men, you know,
maybe he yeah, I'm totally going down with the ship,
you know, you know, especially when the honor was a
big thing among the British. Not so much anymore, but
back in the day, honor was kind of a big thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:24):
Well, I mean so again, though, you know, I still
I agree with Aggie. I think the accident. I think
the iceberg may have been a happy accident because I
think they had other plans to sinker. So I don't
think the origin I think I don't think the original
plan was the iceberg. I think the iceberg they were like, oh,
this would make it look even more plausible, and.

Speaker 4 (01:44:46):
They just you know, uh, kind of remove the things
that may have made it a little bit more difficult
to see this coming iceberg, like the binoculars which could
not be found.

Speaker 6 (01:45:01):
Well, they're obviously going to have a backup pair of binoculars.
I mean, yes, you would think at least jewel a
get crown jewel. You got to keep coming back to it,
the Jewel of White Star, which is the crown Jewel
of imm which is the pet project of JP Morgan
at the time. All of his eggs are in that basket, and.

Speaker 1 (01:45:23):
That basket was really really full of holes ever since
the Olympic collided with that warship. Just bringing that point
back home to.

Speaker 6 (01:45:34):
Full holes. Joke well crafted. So I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:45:41):
I mean, you know, we're coming up towards the end
of it here, so I don't know. I know a
lot of I know there were a couple of folks
in the beginning of the show that we're like, I'm
not so sure. I'm wondering if we've changed any minds
because I still because I will admit, I don't know
why this is because this is what the second or

(01:46:02):
third time we've done this topic. I don't know why
the I don't think I don't know why the art
being left or not being left in the ship didn't
click in my brain this art the first time as
it did this time. But that that's the thing that
I keep coming back to. Dude, was only supposed to
have like a tummy ak or something, and was still
planning on going back to America. Why did he pull
the arts.

Speaker 6 (01:46:26):
France? Is are going to dig that? Yeah, and that's
you know, talking to Jeff and Discord too. You know
that It's just one of those things that I've never
really focused on. And thank you Aggie for being on
toot to hit that because yeah, I got that is
actually probably that is leaning towards the biggest indictment with me.

Speaker 4 (01:46:47):
Yeah, you can. People can't explain almost everything else away.
They they will find excuses, they will find explanations, they
will find reasons. That's fine, but that that one thing, no, nobody,
nobody can actually explain that. It makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
So yeah, maybe that's why I drove home so much
harder this time, because Aggie was here to drive the
boy home because yeah, I'm that that was something I
never thought of before something changed.

Speaker 6 (01:47:21):
Cameron did it to make the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
Yeah, well you know, well we've already established that time
travel is now an engineering problem, so it is plausible.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
Well, I'm earlier in the chat. I think it was
I'm not sure who it was, but I want to
say it was empty who said that thankfully it was
a Spielberg who directed her, because then it would have
been Cake Capshaw. I'm happy. I'm happy about that. I
don't want I don't want Cake Capshaw to be you know, sullied.

(01:47:52):
So actually I love Kate Winslet. So I can't say anything,
but I just I can't sit down and watch this.
I mean, it's just, oh god.

Speaker 6 (01:48:05):
The other thing that you going with something Jeff sent
me in discord too, the heel breaking in half Either
the ship breaking in half was that from the damaged
keel or from the scuttling.

Speaker 1 (01:48:20):
Very good question, I mean, yeah, I know.

Speaker 6 (01:48:23):
It was taking on a lot of water and wind
nosed down and then the back end just kind of
fell off. Yes, I understand physics well enough to understand that, yes,
it probably could not have supported that kind of weight,
but also yes it could have because of all the
internal superstructure between you know, the bulkheads and everything else. Yeah,

(01:48:43):
it's a heavy motherfucker. But yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:48):
So m.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
Lots of questions, yeah, yeah, and not very many answers.
I think the other one that really trips me off
or trips me on is realizing that the main propeller
number doesn't match the registry number of the ship.

Speaker 6 (01:49:14):
They just changed. They just swapped them when they were
in dry dock. Why why would you do that?

Speaker 4 (01:49:20):
Do we will not know how heavy those things are.
I mean, I like it, you like, wait, let's swap
the tops of these two.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
Well, the other reason, but the other reason is why
would they have to the ship maybe in voyage, it
had gone through a shakedown cruise or two maybe other
than a bunch of people touring it, which is the
reason why the well, the carpet was kind of threadbury.
That was only because so many people were touring it
before it ever launched.

Speaker 6 (01:49:49):
No bullshit, No, yeah, I mean a year of use
is the Olympic makes a hell of a lot more
sense than you know, several thousand lookie lose touring the
sh ship. But yeah, no, I mean it's okay if
you want to take They just swapped it for reasons.
A hell of a lot more people are going to
be paying attention to that at the shipyards than you know,

(01:50:13):
a mysterious middle of the night paint job and all
the fixtures being moved around, you know, I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:50:18):
Yeah, that would that would attract eyes.

Speaker 6 (01:50:21):
Yeah, and that's just a guess you know, oh, maybe
they just swapped it. That's that holds as much theory
as you know, everything else we've talked about tonight, that
that is a counter conspiracy. That's conspiracy theory to disprove
a conspiracy theory. Basically, well, you know, it's they just
swapped the prop. Why what reason would they have done that?

Speaker 1 (01:50:42):
Well, you know, it's like again, why I I It
doesn't make any sense. This was supposed to be a
brand new, just off the line ship. There was no
reason this was the prop.

Speaker 6 (01:51:01):
Yeah, none. I mean, okay, if it had cavitation issues
or something, yes, I could see that maybe, But again,
the prop was specifically designed for that ship. So it
just doesn't make sense that, hey, here's this other prop
that was on a ship that ran into a military ship.

(01:51:24):
There may be some damage all the way back to
the prop, but maybe not. But hey, let's put it
on this brand new fucker. And just because you know,
because there were no reports of why they would have
done that, you know, it's you know, oh, you know
there was cavitation in the prop, that would make sense,
that would make for a less than optimal ride for anybody,

(01:51:45):
But that's not in any of the documentation either.

Speaker 1 (01:51:53):
Like I said, lots of questions, no real answers. No,
so just say, you guys know, we've got like over
twelve hundred people hanging out with us right now, outstanding.

Speaker 6 (01:52:04):
Welcome all of you. It's Aggie Cheek.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
No.

Speaker 6 (01:52:17):
Oh, and I couldn't find that Rothschild screenshot. I know
somebody out there has it. They send it to me
and I'll put the call out on Twitter because I
couldn't find it anywhere. I don't know what I named it.
So if anybody has that, because I know a couple
of you have shown it to me since then saying hey,
remember when this happened, Send that to me so I

(01:52:38):
can boost it because I want that back. Yeah. The
guy turned out to me. You know, we obviously came
down on the wrong side of something, and it was
back in the days of Jack where I couldn't have
hit him with both barrels. But he did turn out
to be quite magnanimous, especially when I joked about the
his family tree looking like a telephone pole.

Speaker 16 (01:53:08):
Okay, well a little yeah, that was I was going,
oh boy, oh, you're right, this was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:53:25):
It was it was.

Speaker 1 (01:53:29):
Or anything you want to add to the well, you know,
it has I had.

Speaker 4 (01:53:33):
I had, you know, toyed with the whole conspiracy theory,
the switching of the vessels, all that stuff and everything,
but I never really went into that deep dive until
this show. And I am really ticked off about the
art situation. But that's just me. But that's a you know,
that's a sticking point. I mean, I can you know,

(01:53:54):
I'm sure that there are people that can explain everything
else away, but they cannot explain that. And that's a
big that. It's not a little that, it's a big that.
So thanks for that. I'm gonna be like, I'm going
to be at church tomorrow and right there during the
Nicene Creed, I'm gonna be like, what why why the art?

Speaker 13 (01:54:16):
You know, but.

Speaker 1 (01:54:18):
She's going to be in the confessional after church being
I can't get this thought to go away.

Speaker 4 (01:54:23):
Yeah, it's funny because my mom said you should volunteer
for the church, blah blah blah and all that stuff,
and I'm like, I don't want to take the classes
to you know, do all that stuff and everything. But
I was looking around at a lot of the church.
You know, there's a lot of exposed wood, so I'm
gonna I'm actually going next week to ask, yeah, who's
taking care of all of the woodwork here? Because it

(01:54:45):
looks pretty dry. I'm going to volunteer to queen it
all up. I gotta be doing something.

Speaker 1 (01:54:54):
So just just to just to make sure I'm understanding
this correctly, you're about to volunteer to take care of
the church's wood.

Speaker 4 (01:55:01):
The wood paneling, and the pews. I reiterate that. I
mean I know that they you know, there's people that
come in and clean and everything, but I don't think
anybody is actually, you know, taking care of all the
furniture or the wood paneling.

Speaker 6 (01:55:20):
So sure they clean, but they are not Aggie clean.

Speaker 4 (01:55:24):
Well, no, it's not that I'm cleaning. I'm conditioning it,
you know, reviving it, make it pretty mm hmm.

Speaker 6 (01:55:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:55:34):
I always got to be doing that. It's a mania
with me.

Speaker 6 (01:55:41):
You haven't found any yard sales scores that you've needed to.

Speaker 4 (01:55:48):
I got one today.

Speaker 6 (01:55:52):
Now the church gets put on hold, but no, the
church comes first.

Speaker 3 (01:55:57):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:55:57):
I just figured this gives me like community hours as
well with with the with the church and everything. But no,
I don't listen to creed in church. I recite the
Creed in church. There's a difference.

Speaker 6 (01:56:13):
Are you sure?

Speaker 4 (01:56:16):
There isn't my church, not anybody else's.

Speaker 6 (01:56:23):
Yeah, it's it's it's not Creed. It's the call.

Speaker 4 (01:56:31):
Casting crowns to me. Meck oh see, Now I'm going
to pull out all my my faith rock.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
I have a lot of it because I've actually done
covers of most of.

Speaker 6 (01:56:43):
Them, and MD you get this probably some of you
out there, you're like obsequious every man and a few others.
But when I made that call joke, they actually decided
not to build themselves as a Christian rock so that
way they could get wider play. But all of their
music is absolutely heavily referenced.

Speaker 4 (01:57:04):
That's very cool.

Speaker 6 (01:57:06):
And now that and now that you're if you're familiar
with the songs, are going to start thinking about it
and thinking about them in another light. If you haven't yet,
you especially the I Still Believe from the Lost Boys.

Speaker 1 (01:57:26):
Nice. Yes, all right, So Aggie, where can folks find you?
Because we are coming up to the end.

Speaker 4 (01:57:35):
You can find me at Agie VECN and Agie the barkeep.
Those are over on x like right here on x
A thirty pm Eastern Tuesday nights. Doing the cocktail lounge
with Brad Slager a thirty pm Eastern Friday nights. And
he says, she said, with Rick, you and we are

(01:57:56):
getting together this coming week, right, It's toxic Masculinity.

Speaker 1 (01:58:00):
Is coming Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (01:58:02):
Yeah, Wednesday, eight pm. You'll find me there with a
drink for the evening. And Jeff and I do spirited
books on the first Monday of every month at a
thirty pm Eastern So yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:58:15):
So I have to point this out real quick because
I didn't realize it that I had done it. This
is how ingrained this joke now is with me. I
received a message from somebody today to be expecting a package,
and then they realized later that they the wrong delivery date,
so it'll be next week something probably when it gets here.
And without even realizing when I when I was done,
I was like, uh, no worries, I'll keep my eye

(01:58:35):
out for it. Not in my eyes.

Speaker 6 (01:58:41):
Which one the one that works?

Speaker 1 (01:58:47):
The other one's kind of.

Speaker 6 (01:58:50):
To keep with the nautical theme.

Speaker 1 (01:58:54):
Oh but all right, I must working folks find you?

Speaker 6 (01:58:58):
Oh shit, this is my light week. Well, Whiteish you
can still find me as ordinance packard on Twitter. Surprisingly
I know you can find me this week on Manorama
on Tuesday with Vincent Charles, probably you, Rick, hopefully Jeff
again someday, some Steve obviously and some random Canadian. We're
gonna be doing game shows this week. Wednesday you can

(01:59:20):
find me on Manorama with you and Aggie Wednesday later
you no, no, Noma, Toxic Masculinity. Sorry, don't give me,
don't Masculinity shows this week.

Speaker 1 (01:59:32):
Don't give them our number four spots there.

Speaker 6 (01:59:34):
No, No, we've got number four. They they've they've got
work to do. We've got work to do on the
other one. But still, yes, Toxic Masculinity and Manorama. I'm
doubling up on my masculinity this week. Later you can
find me. Not evening, you can find me with you again,
Rick On, Rick and Ordy. And that's it for me
this week, my light week.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
Nice look at you all right. So tomorrow, I'm not
sure if there's gonna be a reading room tomorrow or.

Speaker 6 (02:00:01):
Also Vincent Charles Project tomorrow.

Speaker 13 (02:00:04):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (02:00:05):
I'm gonna say, I thought you guys both had a
thing going on tomorrow, but.

Speaker 6 (02:00:08):
Yes, we have the Vincent Charles Project.

Speaker 1 (02:00:11):
Yeah, Corn is working on a project with Hollywood, so
I'm not sure if we're gonna be able to do
a show Tomorrow night or not, but once I know,
you guys will know, and then Monday night should be
America Off the Rails. Tuesday night, I do plan on
being on manor Ama since I was off last week,
and then all the other stuff that pretty much everybody's
already talked about, along with Thursday Night jen Rick, and

(02:00:32):
then back pushing buttons for the front board forendsic Crew
on Saturday. Other than that, you can find me at
Roddy Rick seventy three on x you can find the
station at Kayler Kaylar and Radio on x Rumble, YouTube,
and facebooks. And you can also find me as a
contributor on Twitter dot com, It's Fitspolitics dot com and
the Lofts Party dot com. I also produced that podcast
and it drops on Tuesdays. I think that's it And

(02:00:56):
if that's not enough, then that's all I'm doing right now.

Speaker 6 (02:01:01):
That's all you get.

Speaker 1 (02:01:02):
Bye, everybody, Thanks for hanging out with us. No healing
of the hydro fan, this discussion.

Speaker 2 (02:01:13):
Cream Man, that test that.

Speaker 9 (02:01:19):
Read full.

Speaker 8 (02:01:22):
Out of side government shadows Secretstine conspiracy, unful Welslee traging councils.

Speaker 10 (02:01:34):
Unexplain to this out that holy shame man, my mother's
loss fall unlevel history story, untold

Speaker 11 (02:01:47):
Areas fifty one Wisdom