Juxtober Episode 1 -- 10-04-25 The Hunters in the Dark

The first chill of Juxtober creeps in with the stories of what still hunts us. From the frozen hunger of the Wendigo to the goat-sucking shadows of the rural night, these are the predators our ancestors named — and maybe still see. Step outside the circle of firelight. The food chain isn’t finished.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello friends, we have a moment so that we may
discuss our Lord and Savior Minichy. No, seriously, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
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Speaker 1 (00:16):
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Speaker 8 (02:55):
The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listenery
Discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Cream man Inneser.

Speaker 9 (03:10):
Read full and grown.

Speaker 5 (03:14):
Out of side, government shadows, secrestine, conspiracy and full lols,
straight encounter size flame to this out by.

Speaker 10 (03:29):
Shame, then my knowledge voices fall, unleveling history stories untold.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
Area fifty one The Wisdom Name, Beautiful Sightings, haunting, flame, loveness, monster,
wading mess, crystals, wanty, jurious gif strange encounter Sun, Explain

(04:05):
to this out that prety change. Then with knows ICs fall, love,
reveling mystery stories untold s take stop believe as your
fore answers hidden you to the firelight, soul, loogic things

(04:27):
such continuous son, strange encounter of sun.

Speaker 10 (04:33):
Explain to this out that Brian shape. Then with knows
fusses fall, love, leveling mystery stories untold.

Speaker 11 (04:45):
Through this out there.

Speaker 9 (04:48):
Too, out the.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
And good evening, everyone, and welcome to Saturday night here
on Kaler Radio. You just hopefully finished hanging out with
the folks on the front porch doing front porch forensics.
They're now producing that one on their own, which is
great because it frees up a little bit more time
for me. And now we have officially hit JUX October.
You guys know what that means. There'll be five episodes
of juxtaposition this month technically four in October one and

(05:27):
the very first Saturday in November, and we're gonna be
talking cryptids all month long. And our good friend Ordnance J. Packard,
who is my co host on this endeavor, has been
putting in the lion's share of the work on these episodes.
So if you like them, make sure you give him
a give him a hell yeah, he's doing the lifting.

Speaker 12 (05:46):
Hate mail to kalr En radio dot com.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's all right, I'll make you your own so they
can send all the hatred to you. We can do that.

Speaker 12 (05:55):
Hew you doing, man, we can do it. I'm built,
all right.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
I guess still. I've got another I've got a check
coming out again Tuesday to hopefully finish with all my
Internet shenanigans because the Internet is still being a little weird,
so they're going to try a complete overhaul, so hopefully
it'll be done before we got to do you know, manorama,
because yeah, sometimes sometimes.

Speaker 12 (06:17):
Nice now I heard you mentioned the other night. Uh,
somebody was nice enough to donate the kal or an
account of gold check.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Well they said, I will give you the starter for
one month and what you do from it. There will
be up to eat. But yeah, They're like, please make
sure it gets used for this because that's what I
want to see if it helps. And I'm like, okay, cool,
So yeah, I gotta I gotta admit. We've had a
couple of really big benefactors lately, some small, some some
not so small, who have chosen to remain anonymous. But

(06:48):
that one really kind of surprised me, one of them
because I got an email and they're like, Hey, about
to send you something. This is what I want you
to use it for. And I got to admit, the
gold check in the in the in the square batge
look pretty good on the network. I gotta say it looked.
It looks snazzy.

Speaker 12 (07:04):
I know, right.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
I was like, dude, we were like number three a
minute ago, and everybody from one, two, and three was
all like gold check account. Yeah, like that's awesome, that's great. Anyway,
So how are you, my friend?

Speaker 12 (07:17):
How are you good?

Speaker 13 (07:18):
You know what.

Speaker 12 (07:19):
I'm in the middle of my birth week, tail end
of it, but uh yeah, no, it was a great birthday.
Gorged myself on sushi and German chocolate cake, which I
am want to do and am now two days into
my fifty fourth Trip around the Sun.

Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah, you had me at German chocolate cake because that's
really really good overpriced. Debating out so much, and before
anybody yells at me, I did officially try it. I
still don't like it. Okay, I have been I have
been trying to expand my palate, so I have been
eating things I haven't eaten before. Like I've tried some
Vietnamese food. I actually kind of like fae a lot
of it. Other than that I don't really care about.
And then I did try sushi with a friend a

(08:01):
few months ago, and I was like, yep, nope, can't
do it.

Speaker 12 (08:03):
Nope. It took me a while to find it because
I don't like salmon, you know, And I was like, oh,
you're here, try the sushi here, try the sashimi, and
it'd be salmon or something. I'd be like, no, still
don't like it. Finally I was able to settle on
because I've always loved like good tuna, especially like seer dahi.
So my go tos are spicy tuna crunchy roll. And

(08:25):
then the place I go to they have one where
they'll take tempera shrimp wrap it nahi. And then put
it in a sushi roll and then you know, do
like the volcano sausage shit on it and it's fantastic.
So yeah, I just gorged myself on that and miso
soup and yeah, so good times, good times. And I'm

(08:45):
no cream of some in no, no, no, that's Chinese,
just taking it. And I'm four days into the thirty
one days of boying Goo and haven't been suspended yet.
So you just know what I think about I keep
saying it. It won't happen.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
That's what you thought.

Speaker 12 (09:04):
I know last year. Last year blindsided me. So because
that was a pretty nothing tweet, I did you know
I've said much worse.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
I mean, you got a seven day rip, You're telling
somebody to fillate themselves with the cactus or something. So yeah,
I was like, that's kind of lame and tame for you.

Speaker 12 (09:25):
So I got suspended once for using a gift from
Twitter Zone gift library, so apparently it's all about context anyway.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, but anyway, so yeah, so this month we are
all about cryptids and I still really kind of need
to get with Jeff to see if we can find
something that sounds kind of like Wayward Sun. But isn't
for the previously juxtaposition, especially for topics like this one,
because this is all up in supernatural business. So yes,

(10:05):
oh well yeah I have that. It's already right here
and ready, so.

Speaker 12 (10:07):
We do have this previously juxtaposition.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
I left some of the I left some of the
distortion in because it makes it sound creepy.

Speaker 12 (10:15):
Yes it does. Yes, Oh yeah, I like the uh
it's almost AM radio.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
So that's that's kind of what I was going for.

Speaker 12 (10:26):
Yeah, and is a cryptid Yes, I'm sorry you what
the hoover?

Speaker 9 (10:32):
How many?

Speaker 12 (10:35):
What's that your room? Okay? No, I wanted us and said, oh, asked,
is sida encrypted? I said yes, yes it is?

Speaker 4 (10:51):
Oh what just.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
So hang on? Okay, so everything in here just went nuts.
I don't know what just happened.

Speaker 12 (11:05):
Yeah, I just got disconnected. Okay, you know what. This
isn't a topic that we're gonna be cursed on. We're
not doing witches, we're not doing demons.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Come on, this is just yeah, yeah, I don't know
what happened there is like all of a sudden, everything's
went nuts, like it all they started trying to play
Jeff song and you were going.

Speaker 12 (11:22):
And I'm like that's not name with the screen I
was on anyway, you just mash your face on the keyboard.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Is No, I did not. I wish I had kind
of the fine Oh where.

Speaker 12 (11:41):
Yeah, I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go and delete all
these cursed items from our discord.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
You know we probably needed to do that.

Speaker 12 (11:50):
You know, you cleared up as soon as I had
deleted Myrtle's mirror from last week.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I have no idea what's going on that's.

Speaker 12 (12:03):
On you, man, I have no control over that.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
No I did.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
It's it's my computer. It's doing it all on its own.
I'm not even kidding.

Speaker 12 (12:10):
Okay, all of a sudden, it's on me.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
The connection was gone, and the next thing I know,
it was like, oh, the connection's back, and then it
starts trying, and then it kicked you off, kicked you
right back in, started playing the song again, and I'm.

Speaker 12 (12:21):
Like, uh, okay, yeah, at least I know it's not me.
Hang on, I'm almost through it. Yeah, for those of
you who a couple of weeks ago on JUX, we
did cursed items and you know, like Robert the Doll
and stuff like that, and I just I'm going through

(12:43):
because we started to have technical difficulties last week, and
so I would just went through and deleted all the
images of all the curse items. So if we clear
up through this, and I swear you know, we're not
just doing this to be spooky. This is actually live radio.
And you know, because we're not cool enough to think
about things like yo, let's.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
You know, I wouldn't be cool enough to plan in
some like glitches and stuff and then play it off. No, no, no, no,
this is actually happening, and it's weird because it only
ever really happens as we get closer to October.

Speaker 12 (13:17):
Yeah, especially when, yeah, for those of you who've been
listening us to a long time, when we did Juxtober
on Demonology and then we did a Juxtober on Witches
and we did another one too, and uh, we were
absolutely cursed. We couldn't make shows like shit was popping
up that was just interfering with us. Technical difficulties, just bizarre.

(13:39):
So anyway, this isn't one of those times we avoided
those topics so we could get through a year that
we knew we could get five episodes, do a deep
dive with a new two hour format and actually yeah,
which is a ship rules and tricks. Nice.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
That's really good man, Oh, that's actually really good. Yeah.
I won't even let anyone comment up on the screen.
Everything just froze on me. Okay, there it goes.

Speaker 12 (14:09):
All right, boy, this is gonna be fantastic, So we
better get started before we can't do any of it.

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact
that I have to have a tech comeback out again.
So probably, yeah, I'm helping because I really don't want
the Halloweeners to continue.

Speaker 12 (14:27):
Yeah, your modem is haunted, so you know, starting out,
so we've broken down each of these into a different
classification of cryptids. Each week is gonna be different classification
of cryptids, you know, whether it's water or whatever. The tonight,
we're starting with the ones that hunt us, the actual

(14:47):
malevolent ones, the ones who want to do us harm
and eat us and you know, do very bad things.
It's not just like passively out there like Lockness or Bigfoot.
These are the ones. And we're starting off with everyone's favored,
especially among gun Twitter and nol Twitter, the wind NGO.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah, so for everybody who likes to think we're we're
the Apex predator of our planet. These things would like
a word.

Speaker 12 (15:15):
So yeah, yeah, I mean yeah yeah. On land allegedly
we're the apex predator, but not always so. For those
of you who don't know, the story of Windango is
one of those rare cases where myth and anthropology kind
of collide. They're so closely tied together that it becomes
difficult to separate the monster from the warning. Yeah, in

(15:38):
the northern forest, where winters are long and you know, famine,
there's always a possibility. The Algonquin speaking people is told
of a gaunt, skeletal figure with an insatiable hunger for
flesh and you know, morality itself, a spirit that arrived
when the most sacred of taboos were broken, cannibalism basically,

(16:03):
and its presence. The hunger was no longer a human state,
but a contagious curse, stretching, stretching beyond the car, the
starving campsite, and into the whole community. Early ethnographs recorded
dozens of variations. Some describe a massive creature taller than
the pines, with a heart of ice and eyes glowing
like fire, and others tell of the human who, in

(16:26):
the act of consuming another becomes the Windingo, doomed to
hunt forever. It's the flexibility of this that gives the
loar its power. You know, it's not just a single monster,
but it's a whole ethos wrapped around it, you know,
explaining how hunger could unravel both the body and the spirit.

(16:48):
And in the oral traditions of the Algonquin, the wingo
is not just outside the tent, it's inside you.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
The call is coming from inside the tent. I'm just kidding,
so yeah. Anthropologistic coin the phrase when dego psychosis in
the twentieth century to describe cases among Cree and Ojebwe
communities who where individuals became convinced they were turning into
the monster. Symptoms included an obsessive fear of becoming a cannibal,

(17:17):
coupled with violent urges to kill and eat others. Some
of these cases ended in death, either by suicide to
prevent transformation or by execution at the hands of the community.
The fact that Western medicine tried to give the monster
a diagnostic category chose just how much this really freaks

(17:38):
some folks out. I would think, Yeah, you.

Speaker 12 (17:42):
Know, one of the most sided cases is that of
a swift runner. He was a cree up in Alberta
back in the late eighteen hundreds. You know, despite being
about twenty miles away from the Hudson Bay Company provisions,
he murdered and ate his family during a harsh winter.
At the trial, he claimed to have been possessed by
the Windingo and he was hung at for Saskatchewan. But

(18:08):
I mean, the story is circulated for decades and it's
proof that the hunger spirit, well not a myth, but
an ever present risk, and especially in the Canadian you know,
the Canadian government sees it as a crime, but as
people saw it as the encounter with the predator that
stalked his soul.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Well, I mean, if the family would have just put
the lotion on the skin, yeah, you know. Another recorded
case involves Jack Fiddler and og Kree Shaman arrested arrested
in nineteen oh seven after he admitted to killing multiple
individuals he claimed were transforming into windigos to the outside world.

(18:48):
These were murders to his people, they were acts of
defense against something worse. The collision between colonial law and
Indigenous cosmology shows how the Windygo wasn't merely a fire
side tale. It was integrated into the justice of survival
itself for some of these people.

Speaker 12 (19:09):
Yeah, modern psychology largely treats the when Ingo psychosis as
a it's a cultural bound syndrome. But even in that framing,
it doesn't resolve the unease about it. And you know,
unlike other psychosises which tend to universal themes, Uh, this
was highly coupled to the environment. You know, snowbound for scarcity,

(19:30):
gnawing hunger. That makes survival itself a moral trial, you know,
whether it's little or symbotic symbolic. The idea that starvation
can turn us into monsters resonates across cultures, but the
wind Ingo names it, personalizes it.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
So going beyond anthropology, the creature continues to appear in
modern reports hunters in Ontario and Minnesota. It's heell of
emaciated deer like figures with along limbs glimpsed between the trees.
Some accounts describe an unearthly stench like rotting meat, coupled
with a palpable sense of dread. Skeptics suggest these are

(20:10):
misidentifications of moose or bears in poor condition, yet the
descriptions often carry features not seen in any animal, such
as glowing eyes, unnatural speed, or the sense of being
stalked for miles without a sound.

Speaker 12 (20:30):
Yeah. One story. Another story comes from a trap rough
near like Winnipeg in the thirties who claimed he saw
a towering figure tearing the remains of a wolf that
had killed excuse me. After the trapper fled and returned
with others, the elongated tracks clawed his space further a
part than a human stride. They were already filling with snow,

(20:51):
and locals at the time interpreted the signs as it
was a windingo or a wind digs. It's a Charles
was putting a chat underappreciated, faught, Yeah it is. These
things don't merely compete with you know, humans for food,
but they punish them for greed too.

Speaker 14 (21:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Contemporary encryptid forms actually still receive occasional reports. As recently
as twenty nineteen, a video circuit circulated online purporting to
show a skeletal figure moving unnaturally fast across the frozen
road in Quebec. While quickly dismissed as a hoax, the
sheer viral spread of the clip demonstrated the windigo's lingering

(21:33):
hold even hoaxes echo the hunger of the original myth.
Our need to see the predator confirmed.

Speaker 12 (21:43):
Yeah, thematically, the wind ango it functions. There's a fear
of endless appetite, you know, in the algonquin tails. No
matter how much it eats, it just grows larger, ensuring
it can never be full. And in this way, the
monster transcends cannibalism to become a metaph or for greed
and gluttony, you know, colonial counts. Note how the elders

(22:05):
warned of that unchecked desire for food, for land possessions,
any of these things could invite the wind dingo. And
so it's not only a winter predator, but it's also
a cultural check against success, you know, especially when you're
talking about you know, pretty much agrarian tribes who were

(22:27):
just sustenance farmers and sustenance hunters, so they had exactly
what they needed and not much more.

Speaker 13 (22:34):
So.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Compare this to famine folklore elsewhere. In parts of Scandinavia,
hunger was personified by figures like Pesta, a hag carrying
a broom who brought the plague. In Ireland, starvation appeared
as the fear Gorta, a spirit of famine and roam fields.
Yet only in the northern Algonquin belt does the monster

(22:56):
not merely represent hunger. It hunts you for in indulging it.
The Windigo is unique in that it's both the punishment
and the crime.

Speaker 12 (23:08):
Yeah, that's yeah, taking both sides of that that it does.
It is a really powerful story when you think of
it like that.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, because you you give in to your hunger and
then you you basically are cursed with hunger forever and
then out stalking other people fun times.

Speaker 9 (23:31):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
This is this is why long Pig is very voting.
Kids no longer, no long predn't much care for it.
A little stringy, yeah.

Speaker 5 (23:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (23:41):
There's also the ritual angle behind this too, and is
that you know, some Algonquin Shamans would conduct ceremonies to
drive the winding go away, you know, burning animal fat
or making loud noises out in the woods. And these
rituals were less about hunting the predator as much as
they were restoring the balance. You know, that it could
be banished at least temporarily suggests that it was seen
as an invading force, you know, not a permanent evil.

(24:06):
There's one that would arrived when people lost harmony with
their environment. So and.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
This keeps going because guess what, it doesn't just involve
the angonquins. Now we're going to talk about some Catholics.
The Catholic missionaries who entered these regions in the seventeenth
century often equated the win ingo with demonic possession. They
found the concept convenient for their own cosmology, folding it

(24:35):
into the Christian idea of sin, But the indigenous framing
remained distinct. When Nigo wasn't tempting you from outside, it
was what you became when survival collapsed into selfishness. The
inversion is what makes it so unsettling. The predator isn't
another species. It is us at our worst and basically

(24:56):
completely out of control.

Speaker 12 (24:58):
Yeah yeah, I mean yeah. You know, in pop culture
and literature, the winding go often gets conflated with were
wolves or other generic monsters, but the original context of
it is tighter. It's a winter predator. You know, it's
specifically tied to famine and unlike it's just shape shifters,

(25:18):
which can be resisted or transformed back the when Dingo's
condition is permanent, you know, once taken by its hunger,
there's no return, you know. And this kind of adds
some finality to the taboo that it's not just wrong
to eat human flesh. Sh it's irreversible.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
I mean, it kind of adds teeth to it. See
what they hit there?

Speaker 12 (25:40):
See what that's good? That good?

Speaker 1 (25:43):
So A further star rick So, A further unsettling detail
is the sounds. Some reports say the windigo. The windigo
can create. It is said to mimic human voices calling
people by name in the forest to lure them. Others
describe an un earthly shriek that proceeds its appearance, a
sound like ice crackling across the frozen lake. The sensory

(26:07):
component makes the stories. Visceral hunger is silent, but the
windigo is loud, making its presence undeniable in memory.

Speaker 12 (26:18):
Yeah, mod a psychologists, Yeah, they might dismiss these ex
hallucinations born a starvation, but the consistency of the details
of them across centuries and cultures, you know, argues that
something deeper. You know, Hunters and trappers separated by hundreds
of miles described the same gaunt, skeletal stalk, or the
same voice in the trees, you know. Excuse me, even

(26:41):
if it is psychological. You know, so many minds invent
the same predator.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, so this brings up an interesting thought because we're
talking about folks that are separated by hundreds of thousands
of miles. How many times have we played it, played
the telephone game in the same room, and by the
time you start a story at one end of the room,
it's completely different by the time gets to the other.
So the consistency across thousands of miles in and of
itself lends credence to this whole thing in ways that

(27:07):
I don't think modern science can explain.

Speaker 12 (27:10):
No, And you know, psychology always just likes to, you know,
boil everything down into it's you know, it's rude essence,
which is fine in this. But the thing is is
that externally you have you know, this isn't even something.
It's like, you know, even among the paiute. You know,
the mysterious batwoman motif has different meanings in different regions,

(27:36):
but the WINDINGO has the same meaning across everywhere, the
same sounds, the same visual appearance, well, you know, variations
of the visual appearance, but it's still pretty cohesive.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well yeah, so the funny thing is this is still
on a symbolic level being used today. So the wind
the wind nego is often used in Hundred Times to
critique consumerism culture and the consumer culture writers frame corporations
is when negos devouring resources endlessly, always growing, but never satisfied.
This is a powerful echo of the original fear that

(28:14):
unchecked appetite can consume the world. When the myth is
still useful for explaining modern anxieties, it shows a rather
strong durability in my opinion, even if it has been
hijacked by hippies.

Speaker 12 (28:33):
Yeah, but for the communities that still tell the story,
it isn't metaphorical. You know, Elders continue to warn against
traveling alone in the woods at night, especially in the winter.
You know, some war that's speaking the name allowed too often,
realizing beetlejuice three time will draw its attention.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
That's one.

Speaker 12 (28:50):
Now, is that consecutively or do I anyway? You know,
in these retellings, when Dingo remains, you know, as alive
as any bearreer wolf, you know, a predator you may
meet if you push your luck.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
So ultimately, what makes the windigo compelling is that it
doesn't just threaten the body, but also the soul. To
fall victim to it is to become, is to become it,
blurring the line between hunter and hunted. That paradox a
predator that turns its prey into the very predator that
it was once prey too, is almost unique in global lore.

(29:25):
It ensures the fear is self renewing, like hunger itself.

Speaker 12 (29:33):
Yeah, you know, I guess the function of the wendango
is protective, you know, by embodying the consequences of cannibalism
and greed, it reinforces those boundaries that kept the communities
alive through brutal winners. It isn't just a boogeyman. It's
a survival tool, you know, it's encoded in the story.

(29:54):
But that doesn't make it any less terrifying, you know,
anything more so because the idea that your culture had
to vent to monster remind you not to eat your
family says something about just how close to the edge
of survival you're. You know, you're on that razor's edge.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, yeah, you did.

Speaker 12 (30:19):
Somebody's asking if you heard pay you. Yeah, because I'm
actually in the Southwest, and I get around a bit,
So you get around a bit, not just get around
and It's like somebody say, they open up a whole
bunch of circle case out here in Florida, and I
haven't seen the ordy it once And well I'm on
a West coast tour right now.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah all right, Well, believe it or not, my friend,
we've hit the bottom of the hour already. We're officially
through the first segment. So we do have as long
as my internet behaves, we do have a a fresh
song from our very own alien and this one is
entitled They Hunt Us. So let's try to give this

(30:57):
a listen and hopefully it holds out.

Speaker 12 (31:00):
This one's good.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
And of course it's not gonna.

Speaker 12 (31:12):
Excuse me, Well, I do shadow puppets, and this one's
a bird.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Well, see, sometimes you're telling me you can still hear it,
so I wasn't sure if you were still hearing it
or not, so let me try something. Hang on, h.

Speaker 12 (31:31):
Yeah, I heard nothing right now except for the fans
on my PC and the slurping of my tea.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Yeah yeah, yeah, all right, I don't even that one's
like an old one. That's weird.

Speaker 12 (31:51):
Yeah. There are lots of Pieu in Utah, Southern Nevada,
Central Nevada, Eastern California.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
All right, let's try this again, and then if this
doesn't work, I'll just go reset the motor real quick.

Speaker 15 (32:06):
While we're all bringing.

Speaker 16 (32:21):
Holly shadows, crawling need the pies, eyes like embus, cut

(32:44):
through chime, bread of on, shills of skin, something ancient
wit swiming.

Speaker 15 (33:08):
They're out there, wash out, washing, teeth in the top
their stocking.

Speaker 9 (33:15):
What have you got playing?

Speaker 2 (33:17):
You must bread it off?

Speaker 15 (33:18):
Coming days.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Watch us, watch us.

Speaker 16 (33:28):
Clowes on pavements, silence, spreak.

Speaker 17 (33:34):
Movies, the egg coat footsteps, no one legs, bloody noise,
burst fearing the bowl.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Movies you are meet you?

Speaker 9 (33:59):
Why go the old? What et in the dart?

Speaker 18 (34:11):
That stock egg ud a your bad cry if you
must try an scare jaws.

Speaker 17 (34:55):
Wa moline bends the human shape, no escape, no holy.

Speaker 14 (35:22):
And gan tonga curs stands true.

Speaker 9 (35:31):
To night.

Speaker 15 (35:32):
Pray that uses yea who they're out there? Was watching?

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Eat in the dark, du stocky ron.

Speaker 9 (35:47):
If you can't pray, if.

Speaker 15 (35:48):
You lost rada dust coming day on us are onto.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Onto ontos?

Speaker 9 (36:01):
Oh?

Speaker 15 (36:03):
Oh who the hell said.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Boy said?

Speaker 18 (36:22):
Dating at that starkay run If you can't pray, if
you must, I comna die.

Speaker 11 (36:28):
One dos one Bosky.

Speaker 17 (36:55):
Woo the.

Speaker 18 (36:57):
SA say doctor gag, go back, I get lost and.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Oops I came back a little too early. I thought
it was done. Anyway, Welcome back into the program, ladies
and gentlemen. I mean, if it's if we're gonna play
devil music, this would be a month to do it.

Speaker 12 (37:47):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
Anyway, So how would your break commis?

Speaker 12 (37:52):
Oh, that was good. I refilled my tea and started
my lung and uh uh, you know, did order things?
How about you? That was your break?

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Nice? I just kind of sat here and worked the
chat a little bit and spread out some more links
so we can see what you can grow in these numbers.
Because we're doing really good in that one. How far
we can go?

Speaker 12 (38:14):
Yeah, another banger from Jeff. By the way, he has
an album dropping on Amazon on Monday.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
I kiss first, I need to I need to make
sure I promo that this week. Yeah, that's awesome. I
can't believe he's actually putting out an album.

Speaker 12 (38:28):
I know it's it's great. I mean it's yeah for
those of you who are just joining us for I
haven't joined us much. Jeff has been doing a lot
of music for Counting. He does it for his shows.
He does it for our show. He's done some themes.
It's just yeah.

Speaker 13 (38:46):
So he's just he's just.

Speaker 12 (38:48):
Cranking them out and there they're bangers. They're the one
for next week. I really liked they gave me an
awkward boner.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
I mean, if you're calling it it up, oh boy.

Speaker 12 (39:02):
Yeah. So cryptids, the war is deep.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yes, and this one is from a certain someone who's
in the Chats Neck of the woods.

Speaker 12 (39:16):
So Aggie's favorite.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
Yes.

Speaker 16 (39:18):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
So when Puerto Rico first heard whispers of the Chupacabra
and the nineteen nineties, it was not just another cryptid siding.
It was an epidemic of dead livestock. Blood drained through
puncture wounds, spread across dozens of towns. Farmers awoke to
find goats, chickens, and rabbits lifeless in their pins, their

(39:42):
carcasses oddly unmolested except for neat preforations. This pattern a
surgical predator, leaving behind corpses rather than consuming them, electrified
the imagination. The name itself, translating to goat sucker, became
shorthand for some thing unnatural, stalking all livestock in the night.

Speaker 12 (40:06):
Wow. Yeah. The earliest descriptions from Puerto Rico painted. The
creature is reptilian, standing about three or four feet tall,
with spines running down its back and large red eyes.
Witnesses like uh, Madeleine tol Into Tolentino of a Carbonis
described it as hopping like a kangaroo, leaving behind the

(40:29):
strange three toed prints. Kind of remember so much of
this from an art bell when this, when this hit,
it was all over art Bell especially, you know, all
the artists renditions. Police reports cataloged over one hundred and
fifty attacks in nineteen ninety five alone, forcing the authorities
to invest in, you know, forcing the authorities to investigate.

(40:49):
And while skeptics suggested feral dogs or even escape monkeys,
the uniform puncture marks on the livestock didn't fit those
predators' behaviors. Yeah, in the very witness the weirdness of
the wounds themselves ensure that the legends spread faster than
any any official explush. I just don't get the I mean,

(41:11):
feral monkeys and dogs are going to just rip something
apart nice neat puncture wounds.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Not to mention, I don't know very I mean, unless
there's vampire monkeys I've never heard of before. I don't.

Speaker 12 (41:26):
I gotta know, Aggie, is there a big escaped monkey
problem in Puerto Rico that I just haven't heard about?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
I mean, especially vam monkey?

Speaker 12 (41:34):
Yeah, vampiric ones.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Yeah, that's about the only way that story would even
potentially makes it. Well, you know there's that one. There's
that one spec he's a monkey we have only in
Puerto Rico that likes to drain the blood of its preak. Yeah,
I don't nope.

Speaker 12 (41:50):
Yeah, you think that it would have had a name
by now. Yeah. By the time the phenomenon reached Texas.
In Mexico, the creature's description had changed. Ranchers began reporting, uh,
a hairless mange, rinded mange ridden ridden canid, you know,
something like coyote or you know, wolf, emaciated but vicious,

(42:11):
attacking their goats and chickens. The carcasus of these animals
were sometimes captured or shot, and DNA tests later showed that,
you know, they were coyotes with severe mange. But the
shift didn't kill the legend. Instead, it split the chupacabra
into two forms, the reptilian kangaroo of Puerto Rico and

(42:32):
the hairless coyote of the borderlands. You both stocked livestock,
each embodied a different local fear, so.

Speaker 1 (42:40):
That livestock killer motif isn't unique to the Americas, though,
because in nineteen seventy five, farmers in Puerto Rico had
already lived through another wave known as El Vampiro Dame Mocha.
Chickens and cows were found with their blood drained, spurring
vampire I'm telling you there are vampiric monkeys. I'm telling

(43:02):
you so vampire rumors. Years before the official Chupacabra. In Tanzania,
the Popobawa, a bat winged intoity, terrorized communities in the
nineteen nineties, attacking families at night and leaving both animals
and humans traumatized. Though details varied, the shared through line

(43:25):
is clear. When rural people lose their animals mysteriously, they
turn to the language of predators beyond biology. I'm telling
you there are vampiric monkeys.

Speaker 4 (43:37):
I mean.

Speaker 12 (43:37):
Kentucky has its own, in the form of the goat Man.
It's a half human, half goat creature said to haunt
bridges and tunnels. The most famous version is the Pope
Lick Monster near Louisville is reportedly lured dozens of their
deaths on a train trestle. You know, but the goat
man legend is older and wider, with sightings reported around
Maryland's Beltsville, the Agricultural Research Center there, in various rural

(44:02):
stretches of Texas. I mean, it's the goat bands everywhere
he gets around.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
Yeah, we talked a little bit last night because that
that actually came up in Aggie's neck of the woods.
So I was making Yeah, I had to make sure
she slept with the legs on that FID so yeah.

Speaker 12 (44:17):
Yeah, as witnesses described it as a towering figure with
the head of a goat, wielding an axe or sometimes
mimicking human voices to woo were victims. You know, the
livestock killer angle is implicit here. The goat man is
often spotted near farmsteads, you know, embodying the predatory presence
that threatens both animals and those who guard them.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
So if the chupacabra embodies a medicalized predator surgical punctures
drained blood, the goat man channels a mythic terror combining
elements of pan statyrs and diabolical imagery. His habitats. Underbridges
along dark rural roads double as liminal spaces where actually

(45:00):
and dangers already abound. The cryptid thus enforces boundaries. Uh
thus enforces boundaries. Don't linger near abandoned tunnels, don't cross
train trestles, don't stray from the safe path. In this way,
he serves the same function as the wendigo did in
the north, but in a rule southern register.

Speaker 12 (45:24):
One of the earliest Kentucky goat man reports dates back
to the fifties, when a Louisville family described a harry
horned creature attacking their car. You know the details of
parallel You know reports in Maryland where teenagers dared each
other to visit cry Baby Ridge and confront the goat
man said to haunt the woods there. You know the region.
The eachy region emphasizes different traits of the goat man.

(45:47):
Sometimes axe wieldings, sometimes be steal screams, sometimes human voices,
but the central motif is always predation. Yeah, he's not
a guardian and he's not a ghost. He's a soccer
that it ends badly for anybody who crosses his path.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
So yeah, livestock as targets tell us something about the
psychology of these cryptids. For rural families, goat, sheep and
chickens weren't just animals. They were survival, wealth and stability.
To wake up to find them slaughtered without clear cause
meant facing starvation or poverty. The predator then became a
narrative placeholder for vulnerability. Wolves and coyotes may explain some death,

(46:27):
but when the details defy those those explanations, the community
invents something worse. A supernatural killer fills the gap. But
did they really invent it?

Speaker 13 (46:37):
Though?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
I don't because yeah, yeah, I don't, you know skeptics.

Speaker 12 (46:44):
Back in ninety five, skeptics dismissed the Chupicabra as hysteria
fueled by the movie Species, you know, because he was
released at the same time and the alien bore a
resemblance to Tolantino's description of it. But this explanation overlooks
the fact that the livestock killings were reported before the
film ever released in Puerto Rico. You know, it's more

(47:05):
importantly explaining it away one witness doesn't explain the dozens
of identical reports from multiple towns across the country. You know,
the folkloric energy here doesn't just arise from someone who
saw a movie.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
You know.

Speaker 12 (47:19):
It taps into a deeper, pre existing fear of nocturnal
livestock predation.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
By the way, I called Shenanigans because not one person
said this thing was hot, right, I remember species.

Speaker 12 (47:29):
I'm just yes, Natasha Hentrich, it is not so.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
The Texas version offers its own anomalies. Ranchers documented carcasses
of animals not consumed, only mutilated, which runs counter to
the behavior of starving coyotes. In some cases, carcasses reportedly
showed signs of blood loss without spillage, echoing the vampiric
imagery discussed earlier. Even if mainsraading coyotes account for some sightings,

(47:57):
the anomalous reports maintained the legend life. As with the Wendigo.
Official explanations serve as inoculations, but they never truly close
the case because it doesn't always fit, you know.

Speaker 12 (48:15):
And the vampiric livestock predator it there's global parallels to
you and Chile. You have the puchin, which is a
flying vampiric snake that haunts farmsteads in Patagonia. You know,
in rural eastern Europe you have all the vampire war
that centered not just on humans but on cattle and

(48:35):
sheep my steriously drained of life. You know, pretor predators
target the economic backbone of the community in their livelihood,
the livestock. You know, this generates legends that survived centuries.
To Cupacabra is just the latest iteration of it, you know,
shaped by modern anxieties in genetic experiments, invasive species, and disease.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
I mean, this is the chewp of kabras, just covering
for the the vampire monkey industrial complex.

Speaker 12 (49:05):
Yeah, big, yeah, big vampire monkey in Puerto Rico's Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
So one striking anecdote comes from looks like Cannel Venus
Puerto Rico, Sorry, Aggie. In August nineteen ninety five, when
Mari Jose came O Soto organized armed patrols to hunt
the chupacabra after repeated killings. That a municipal leader treated

(49:32):
the creature seriously enough to the boy hunters says much
about the panic of the day. The predator was not
just folkloric but civic, drawing real world actions. Compare this
to the goat man Dreshl deaths in Louisville where a
police where police now post warnings and erect fencing, legends
and forced boundaries, sometimes with more effect than law enforcement alone.

Speaker 12 (49:58):
Canabanus, She says, yeah, I know. Question, Yeah, yeah, real predators.
They serve a dual purpose. You know, they explained unexplainable
livestock losses, but they also control behavior. Don't let your
children roam out at night, don't cross into dangerous spaces,
don't need animals unattended. You know, the goat man, the chepicabra,

(50:21):
the vampire Pogeyman of Africa and South America all function
as predators, not just of flesh, but a freedom and
of the mind. You know, they circumscribed the night with rules.

Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yeah, kind of like one of the urban legends. I
was telling Aggie about last night because I had a
habit of pulling away from my mom in parking lots.
So she pointed to one of the tar spots and says,
you know what that is. That's what's left of a
kid who kept pulling away from his mom.

Speaker 12 (50:48):
And I was four.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
I was traumatized for like a month.

Speaker 12 (50:53):
At least. But the legends persist, and they still remain unsatisfied.
You know, farmers, they all lose animals in ways that
don't line up with predation. Travelers still hear screams under
bridges and glimpse horn figures along the rural roads. If
the official explanations manage but misidentify hysteria. You know, I mean,

(51:14):
they're neat and clean and packaged, but they don't they
leave the anomalies untouched. You know, that's the gap where
the predator lives.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
So in a broader, cryptid landscape, these goat suckers and
goatmen are not just curiosities. They are community stress tests,
embodying rule anxiety at its rawest. They remind us that
survival is fragile livestocks livestock are lifelines, and that predators,
whether natural or supernatural, always hunt at the margins. And

(51:51):
so when night falls in canovanas or along a Kentucky trestle,
the advice is the same inside lock the pins and
don't listen. If something outside calls your name, this means
you amish, because whether it's a bloodsucker or a horned
man with an axe, the predators of rural Lord do

(52:13):
not just want your goats. They want you to believe
they're still out there waiting.

Speaker 12 (52:19):
Because they are. Of course, I mean this reminds me.
I mean, okay, so I remember telling Mickey story h
Mickey blowed towards the story ones. I was coming back
from Reno, was late at night, and I pulled over
in this canyon to take a leek, and uh, everything
about the area is screamed, get the fuck out. I mean,

(52:41):
it just it was just I mean, I'm just sitting
there and you know, I can hear the music coming
from the car, and then all of a sudden, just
this cold grip comes across me. Is that you have
no business being here human. You need to leave now.
And I mean this is the area that's filled with
campgrounds along the Walker River and every thing, and it's just, yeah,

(53:03):
so there are things that I'm convinced there are things
that go bump in the night.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Oh when you have.

Speaker 12 (53:12):
An area as vast as the Sierras, and I mean
they still haven't found Fremont's cannon out there, and everybody's
been looking at you got the John Mere Trail, but
still and you know, the whole Ansladams wildness, it is
still creepy as fuck out there. I mean it's a
busy highway.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
I mean seriously, though, I mean it's not the topic
we're talking about tonight, But we've I've talked about the
times with you that like weird things have happened to me.
So I do believe that there are things that go
bump in the night. I mean, I still can't explain
to you how it was that in the middle of
a swimming pool I got turned upside down and nearly
drowned with nobody around me. That actually happened, and it
terrified me. Then there was the time I was trying

(53:54):
to get into my house because I stayed out a
little bit too late, and I could fill the hair
on the back of my neck standing up like something
was chasing me. That, you know, says that that part
may have been imaginary, but nearly drowning in a pool
was not. I mean, I do firmly believe there are
things in this world that we are not meant to understand,
and I think in some cases some of this stuff

(54:15):
may serve as warnings, you know, kind of like my
mom telling me when I was four, you know that
little tar spot you're looking at that used to be
a kid, you know. But still again, talking about the
things we've talked about so far in this hour, there
are too many consistencies across thousands of miles in times
when we didn't have instant in communication like we have today.

Speaker 12 (54:40):
So yeah, sorry, I just creeped myself out remembering that
thing up and coming.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Back in the nice it's like, you're gonna be okay, Yeah,
you're right.

Speaker 12 (54:49):
The things I know, this area is so well, I've
camped there, you know, I just I but it's the
first time, you know, I've ever been in that area.
I was just you know, it was like it's like
in the horror movies. Get out, Okay, I'm gone see
you even shake twice.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
It's Stephen in the chat. I've dated blonde. I believe
the monsters.

Speaker 13 (55:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Nice.

Speaker 12 (55:20):
Nice, we're at the top of the hour again.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Yes, sir, we are all right.

Speaker 12 (55:29):
So it's hideous beasts that prey on carbon based life forms.
There's some truth to that.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
There's a lot of truth there.

Speaker 12 (55:39):
That's what I like. Southern Utah, the nursing school at
Saint George. I was in the hospital Saint George and
a whole bunch of nursing students came through and good times.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Nice.

Speaker 12 (55:51):
You're not often happy to be in a hospital, but
in this case.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I was, you know, I mean, well, it depends on
kind of well it kind.

Speaker 12 (55:58):
Of Hey, I'm gonna come up and you don't want
to do that. I'm feeling like shit, Yeah, don't waste thrive.
I was an ass.

Speaker 9 (56:10):
Eh.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Sometimes they've earned it, though not always, but sometimes they've
earned it in my opinion.

Speaker 12 (56:19):
Yeah, so break again. I'm going through tea pretty quick tonight.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Yeah, we about hit that point and I need to
put some more into my glass too, So we're gonna
go ahead and take our break for this segment. Ladies
and gentlemen. We'll be back here in just a couple
of minutes with our two of our foray into the weird,
the unusual, the unexplainable. Usually every two weeks here on
Canler on Radio, but for this month, it will be
on every Saturday night and even the first Saturday in November,

(56:51):
so that we can bring you as much of the
fun as possible. But we're gonna take break. My name's Rick,
he's Amish. You are listening to us on KLRN Radio.
We'll be right Backstay tuned. Hello, friends, you have a

(57:21):
moment so that we may discuss our Lord and Savior
minarchy No seriously, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 13 (57:28):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
My name is Rick Robinson. I am the general manager
of klrnradio dot com. We are probably the largest independent
podcast network that you've never heard of. We have a
little bit of everything, and by that what I mean
to tell you is we have news, pop cultures, special events,
inse your attainment, true crime, mental health shows, drama productions,

(57:50):
and pretty much everything in between. So if you're looking
for a new podcast home to grab a little bit
of everything that you love all in one place, come
check us out. You can find us on x under
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and our YouTube channel under the same name, and also
find us at klarnradio dot com and pretty much every
podcast catcher and known demand. So again, feel free to

(58:12):
come check us out anytime you like at KLRN Radio.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
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(58:46):
gaze at the stars. Come explore the universe with us.
Follow the lost wonder wherever you get your podcasts, and
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Speaker 12 (58:58):
To be a backseat driver.

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(59:24):
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Hi, everyone, this is JJ, the co founder of good Pods.
If you haven't heard of it yet, Good Pods is
like Goodreads or Instagram, but for podcasts. It's new, it's social,
it's different, and it's growing really fast. There are more
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(59:49):
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Speaker 7 (01:00:01):
J k l r N Radio has advertising rates available.
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Speaker 8 (01:00:22):
The following program contains course, language and adult themes. Listener
and discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Cream Man.

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
Out of Side, Government Shadows, Secristine, Conspiracy, Sun full Wells.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Straight comp Size.

Speaker 10 (01:00:53):
Plays, All unleveling history stories untold.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Area fifty one, a.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
Wisp name, Beautiful Sightings, Haunting, Fame, Love, miss Monster, a
watering mis sociolology.

Speaker 10 (01:01:27):
Injurious Kiff Strange Encounters, I explain to this out that
really change man might knowing is what is all other
mystery stories untold See if it takes out, believe as

(01:01:47):
your foreig answers getting into the firelight so logics.

Speaker 15 (01:01:54):
The search continues, SNAr.

Speaker 10 (01:01:58):
Strange encounters, lossesstery story.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Until tu.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
And welcome back into our two of juxtaposition. Ladies and
gentlemen normally are every two week for you into the weird,
the unusual, the unexplainable. But in October we do things
a bit differently. Welcome to je Oxtober, Ladies and gentlemen,
where every Saturday in October and usually the first uh
either the last week in September, depending on calendar following,

(01:02:50):
or the first week in November. We usually extended because
four episodes just usually is enough for the deep times
we do during Juxstober, and for this month, we are
discussing cryptids. We're about halfway through the episode so far.
I hope you guys are enjoying everything that we've discussed
so far. Don't want to give a quick shout out
to everybody hanging out in the chat again. I am Rick.
He is the homish one, and if you haven't told

(01:03:12):
him yet, tell him belady to have a birthday because
it's still his birthday week.

Speaker 12 (01:03:15):
For yeah, it is my birth week.

Speaker 13 (01:03:19):
So you know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I know I've said how much I love our theme song.

Speaker 12 (01:03:23):
I think it's the best one that Jeff has done
with all the music. But so those of you who
have been following kellor In for a long time, I
want you to understand my full meaning when I say this.
It gets me to spend my chair right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
It's cheer spitting MD that would that would be that
would be a new edition because of this week in politics.

Speaker 12 (01:03:42):
No, not really. Yeah, how was your break it?

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I didn't get a chance to get him get any
tea because I didn't have a long enough break set.
But I did grab a cough drop so I'll be
able to get through the next little bit without a problem.

Speaker 12 (01:03:54):
So I got up to get more tea and discovered
I've got a bloody nose. So that's fun. It is
definitely turning the winter here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
I'm telling fuck telling you. It's the curses, man, it's
the curses.

Speaker 12 (01:04:11):
No, in this case, it's many many, many, many, many
many many years of doing cocaine.

Speaker 9 (01:04:20):
A like it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Oh wait, sorry, yes, that has to be one of
my all time favorite Chevy Chase scenes ever.

Speaker 12 (01:04:29):
Yeah, that's it's a great scene. Terrible movie, but a
fun scene. It's not terrible.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
It's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
I mean, it's not any dumber than some of the
I mean it's it's just as campy and weird as
some of the other ones that were being put out
at the time. I just I don't know. It took
me forever to get into those movies. I didn't used
to find them funny. Now I go back and I
watch them, I'm like, I understand what I was missing before.

Speaker 12 (01:04:52):
Now I like some pretty obscure shit, and I like,
you know, campy and stupid as much as the next guy.
The one Chevy Chase film Never understood. There's nothing in
common with Demi Moore and Dan Aykroyd. I don't get
that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:05:07):
I don't think of it.

Speaker 12 (01:05:08):
John Candy's in it too.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
I don't think I've ever seen it, so I probably
it's dude, you're you're telling me that Demi's in it,
Acroid's in it, He's in it, and John Candy's in
and it still sucks. That's not a good thing.

Speaker 12 (01:05:22):
I just I just don't, you know, I don't know.
And I know a lot of people love that movie.
I just haven't figured out why yet. And when it
came out, I was working in video stores and I
had to watch it at least once a week. It's
not like I'm tired of it, and it's not like
I haven't given it a chance. It's just I don't
get it anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
All Right, Well, your your cultural shows like two weeks
from Thursday, so let's get back.

Speaker 12 (01:05:53):
We'll talk about on the Vincent Charles Project this weekend.
But we're doing, uh, we're doing Sneakers. The movies Sneakers
as are kind of owed to Robert Redford and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
Nice that actually is a good movie. That's actually that's
a that's a good one.

Speaker 12 (01:06:10):
But anyway, so going beyond chupicabres and wind dingoes, there's
a lot of regional cryptids that hunt. You know, it's
like not every predator is you know, dark and easily
categorizes those, you know, especially in rural stretches. You know,
they produce their own catalog as stranger and more localized

(01:06:33):
beings that don't always fit into you know, monster archetypes.
You know, these are the types of chrispu These are
the cryptids that that hunt train trestles, like the goat
man and drainage ditches and wooded creeks. You know, they're
not quite ghosts and not quite animals, but they're always predatory,
and you know, they're they're liminal beasts, the entities tied

(01:06:54):
not only to the wilderness, but to the very edges
of human civilization, you know, as it fades into shadow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
So the most famous of these modern predators is the
dog man. I think we if memory serves. We've talked
about this one before.

Speaker 12 (01:07:08):
Yeah, we did a Cryptis once years ago where we
were talking about the dog men.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
So report stretched all the way back to eighteen eighty
seven in Wexford County, Michigan, when two lumberjacks claimed to
see a creature with a man's body and a dog's
heads stalking through the pines. Since then, accounts have appeared
in Bursts, Michigan in the nineteen sixties, Wisconsin's Beast of

(01:07:33):
Bray Road in the nineteen nineties, and scattered reports as
far as south as Texas. What is it, Aggie, you
need to move Well, I don't know. Yeah, they're saying,
I don't think Texas is safe anymore. Witnesses consistently described
a seven foot tall, bipedal creature with canine features, often glowing,

(01:07:54):
often with glowing eyes and a snarling mouth. Unlike werewolves,
which are tied to lunar cycles and transformation lord, the
dog Man is framed strictly as a predator, not trust humans,
but something that has always existed in the margin.

Speaker 12 (01:08:11):
Yeah. In nineteen eighty seven, one case was recorded by
DJs by radio DJ Steve Cook. He reignited the legend
cook real at least a novelty song called the Legend
you Know about the dog Man, only to receive dozens
of calls from listeners who swore the monster was real.
And you know. Among them was a man who claimed

(01:08:33):
you had been camping near Luther, Michigan when a creature
with canine features stood upright and watched his tent for hours.
You know. The witness never claimed it was supernatural, only
that it was predatory, patient, and silent. The dog Man,
unlike sasquatch, isn't indifferent. It's stocking you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
So much for a man's best friend.

Speaker 13 (01:08:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:58):
So there's another one, and this one is I guess
in Ohio. The level and Frog of Ohio operates in
a Stranger register. It was first reported in nineteen fifty
five by a businessman who saw three humanoid frog like
creatures under a bridge. It later gained notoriety when two

(01:09:18):
police officers in nineteen seventy two reported spotting a three
to four foot amphibian like humanoid near the Little Miami River.
Officer Mark Matthews, I just want to point out this
is a police officer who went on record as far
enough to that we know his name. Later attempted to
dismiss the sighting as an iguana missing its tail, but

(01:09:41):
that oddity stuck. The predator angle here is subtle. The
frogman isn't reported draining goats or tearing it livestock, but
it embodies the unsettling question what else lurks along the
creek banks when you leave town behind. Even if it
doesn't attack, it aims the liminal space as its own

(01:10:03):
trespassors hazard. Kind of like remember that old show Tales
from the Dark Side, kind of like that, Yeah, remember
you know the line where it was always like you
know that this is the world where the daylight ends
and the dark begins. Yeah, yeah, I kind of kind
of kind of feeling that vibe with the with the
froggy things same.

Speaker 12 (01:10:25):
Yeah, you know we covered the froggy things when we
did Kryptos before too, but yeah, those are just see
now that's just even more unnatural because it's everything that
we've talked about is in one aspect aside from like
the Puerto Rican tchoop of coppers is a million in

(01:10:46):
some form or another. Yo, when you're getting into frogs,
that's that that takes a cute little frog and makes
it creepy as fuck. Yeah, as we touched on the
public monster a little bit, you know, back when we
were talking about you the goat man, you know, and
you know that one that kind of blurs the line
between goat sucker and liminal beasts. It still carrying a

(01:11:09):
goat like features, but it's you know, haunting a train
trustle over Popelit Creek. But it has been linked to
numerous deaths of people you know, turned into the tracks,
were wearing in the tracks. Is struck by trains.

Speaker 9 (01:11:23):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:11:23):
Witnesses describe either a horned man beast or a figure
that mimics human voices calling out under the trestle. And
unlike the Chupacapa of the dog man, uh, it kills
not by direct attack, but by deception.

Speaker 13 (01:11:37):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:11:37):
It's predation is psychological, you know, coaxing people into a
lethal space.

Speaker 13 (01:11:43):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:11:43):
In fact, the modern authorities that you know we talked
about have fenced off the area and posted warnings acknowledges
that the legend has teeth, you know, whether it's supernatural
or not.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
And I mean, like like I said, when you've got
police officers making statements about it, people are you know,
starting to put up fences and post signs. Doesn't really
matter how supernatural you think it is, because it's definitely
made its way into the civic spaces in Illinois. Yeah, oh,
go ahead.

Speaker 12 (01:12:13):
Yeah. Well, and you know the thing with that too,
is that everybody over the age of fifteen knows that
when you put up a fence and say warning, you're
just attracting the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
Right, So kind of makes you wonder how maybe they're
trying to feed them monk.

Speaker 12 (01:12:33):
Yeah. Sue Sponti makes a good point is that he
spent twenty one years of his career in Sincy and
lived in Loveland. He never heard that story, which makes
it sound more true because nobody talks about it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Done dun dune, all right. So in Illinois, nineteen seventy three,
my birth year brought the bizarre case of the infield horror.
Henry McDaniel reported seeing a great, a three legged creature
with glowing red eyes and short, stubby arms. Even though
this was my birth year, I promised.

Speaker 13 (01:13:08):
It wasn't me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
It scratched at his door and later reappeared near railroad
tracks bounding away at incredible speed. Local police found unusual
tracks with four toed impressions unlike any known animal. Other
witnesses again we're talking about police rewards here. Other witnesses
backed his account, describing the same red eye predator. Though

(01:13:31):
explanations ranged from escaped kangaroos to mass hysteria. The Einfeld
horror's unique anatomy defied any categorization. It didn't need to
fit a mythic archetype. Its sheer strangeness was enough to
cement it as a predator in the local imagination.

Speaker 12 (01:13:54):
So my question is, were all these escaped animals right?
I mean, okay, it's the seventies, you know, or you know,
the nineties in Puerto Rico, whatever, But still it's like
nobody reports on missing kangaroo.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
You would think. But I mean to be the nineties
in Puerto Rico were about like the seventies in the States.

Speaker 12 (01:14:17):
You're gonna get it. You're gonna get it from your
co host.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
That's kind of what I'm even for. I'm trying to
see if she still paid attention. Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:14:25):
Yeah. The through line with all these stories, though, is
that these things don't appear at open plains or bustling cities.
They wait in the thresholds, the bridges, the tunnels, the trestles,
creek beds, forest edge. You know, anthropologists often note that
liminal spaces in folklor is where dangers congregate. You know,
it's it's the crossroads that attracts the demons. In the

(01:14:46):
European tales, the American back roads and train tracks, you know,
they generate their own cryptid predators because they're just far
They're close enough to be accessible, but far enough away
where there's no help, you know. And you know, the
function is the function of was clear as to warn people,
especially children and teenagers, stay away from the days in
dangerous areas or real accidents happened, you know, But the

(01:15:09):
predators themselves will they become cautionary tales. There's too many
reports for it to just be pure invention.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
I mean, it's almost like that they become the predators
themselves actually become not just a cautionary tale, but actually
even more than that because of the correlations and reports,
because there's just, like I said, there's just too many details.
We've been talking about that all night. There's just with

(01:15:39):
hundreds of thousands of miles across separating these things, there's
just correlations everywhere, which is always been astounding to me.
But you know, going a little further into this, there's
one Loveland Frog witness Officer Matthews insisted that his sighting
was no prank or hoax, though he downplayed its strangeness later. Similarly,

(01:16:01):
Popelic locals have described hearing screams or seeing a horned
silhouette even when no trains were near. These are not
just urban legends told after the fact. They're tied to active,
lived experiences. The predator motif is less about physical attack
and more about claiming ownership of a space where humans

(01:16:22):
should not tread.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Well.

Speaker 12 (01:16:25):
And that's you know, it's like I was saying, is
they're just remote enough that you know it's Yeah. They
they've they've pissed on their trees there, so you know
that's their environment and you just have to stumble into it. Yeah,
it's like the dog man. It provides the clearest predator
behavior in the cluster. Multiple hunters have claimed it stocked

(01:16:48):
them at night, you know, watching from tree lines, growling
low but never rushing to attack. The effect of psychological predation, Yeah,
and it's establishing dominance, it's instilling fear. It's reminding humans
that you are not the apex predator in every forest.
You know. One case with the Dogmen in nineteen ninety three,
a woman reported, you know, what's been known as the

(01:17:09):
beast of ray Road crouched on the side of the road,
tearing into a roadkill with its hands, and when she
slowed the car, the creature reputedly turned, stood upright and advanced,
forcing her to flee. These aren't the behaviors of you know,
misunderstood animals. They're the behaviors is something that has an
effect on the they're predators.

Speaker 1 (01:17:30):
Yeah, all I know is if I was in a
car and something that started advancing on me speed bump,
just saying junk dunk.

Speaker 12 (01:17:41):
Yeah, in the enfield horror, it fits less and easily,
less neatly into this behavior, you know, scratching on doors
and approaching homes, you know, and bounding towards witnesses positions.
But you know, it's it's still not at a passive entity.
It's an aggressor.

Speaker 5 (01:17:56):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:17:57):
In predatory folk courts, unexpectability is its own weapon. You
A beast that can't be explained or categorized is more
terrifying than a wolf. For a bear, your locals, an
infield they've locked their doors for weeks after McDaniel's report,
an armed posse's patrolling the streets, testifying that something real
was provoking the fear.

Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
Dude, can you imagine living I mean, you know, I
know we're seeing we're seeing it politically in places like
Portland and stuff now, But I can't imagine just something
freaking you out at such a visceral level that you've
got people just armed posse's going through the streets trying
to look for the thing. That's just crazy to me.
But you know this, this goes even further because there

(01:18:41):
are cross cultural parallels that strengthen the liminal predator theme.
And in Japanese folklore, the capo are kappa lurks and
rivers waiting to drown on wary children. In Celtic tales,
the puka haunts paths, shifting shapes to confused travelers. Both

(01:19:03):
serve the same role as the Loveland frog or the
Pope like monster deterrence embodied in creature form. When civilization
ends and danger begins, the human mind populates the gap
with predators.

Speaker 12 (01:19:21):
Yeah, you're The difference in American war is the persistence
of eyewitness testimony. These aren't just stories told by the elders,
but the police reports, news articles, and investigations documented within
living memory. You know, liminal beasts are not fading myths,
but living legends, continually renewed by new sightings. Each one
adds another layer to the predator archetype, ensuring that the

(01:19:44):
stories stay sharp.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:19:46):
It's kind of like an IT where it comes around
every twenty years.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
And yeah, that I've read that book way too young.
That's all I'm going to say about that. I enjoyed
it at the time, but I read it way too young.
That was that was a book that scared me. The
movies not so much, and the mini.

Speaker 12 (01:20:04):
Series not really either, but the book, yeah, it got me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
So in some these regional predators serve as sentinels at
civilization's edge. The doc man stalks the forest, the Loveland
frog claims the riverside, the public monster rules the trestles,
and the einfield horror haunts the fields. Their details very
widely canine, amphibian, goat man, three legged horror, but their

(01:20:31):
function converges. They turn dangerous spaces into forbidden zones. By
doing so, they remain relevant, feeding both fear as well
as fascination.

Speaker 12 (01:20:43):
Yeah, you know, skeptics college of these, you know, hoax
and hysteria and misidentification. The legends remained effective. You know,
teenagers still dare each other to visit you know, poplic
Creek hunters still swap dog Man stories in northern Michigan
local papers still dust off the infilled horror every few years.

(01:21:04):
And you know, it's like you say, they've come around
every twenty years. It just seems like, you know, the
predators are not gone because they they were never about proof.
They were always about the shadow where the rules fail,
and you know, they're just waiting there, lingering, you know,
to remind you that you don't want to be there.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
Yeah, And it's just it again to me, the the
lingeringness of these things. The I guess the word I'm
kind of not really the word I'm looking for, but
one that conveys nearly the same thing, the steadfastness, steadfastness
of these stories that just because over time they don't

(01:21:45):
ever really fade away. And it's weird because like the
Mothman story, which is said to recirculate every twenty five
thirty years or so, and it's just kind of the
same thing. These things, they go away for a time
and they come back, and then when they come back,
even though we're now talking about modern times, I mean

(01:22:08):
there's some of these things that we've talked about that
night that were seen as recently as twenty nineteen. You
wouldn't imagine that in the twenty first century, with all
the technology that we have, people would still be seeing
things or being told about things that would make the
hair on the back of their next stand up.

Speaker 12 (01:22:22):
But here we are, you know, and every town has one.
You know, it's they have that creepy house, they have
that you know, that old crone down the street, they
have that abandoned building that you know, it's always you know,
some urban legend about it. We know whether it is
a cryptid or a ghost or a demon. You know,

(01:22:44):
it's every town has one. Yeah, I mean probably not
so much in the big cities, but I know you're
in a small town, and I'm in a small town,
and I grew up in a small town, and you know,
it's they all have the you know, they all have
that that no go zone. You know, well, especially for

(01:23:06):
the kids, and that lingers. You know that that's you know,
that's lifelong trauma. Is even when you grow drive past
it as an adult, you remember the fear as a kid.
You know, you still don't like, Hey, you know what,
I'm grown man with a gun. Let me go check
it out now.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Well yeah, I mean for me, You know, I didn't.
I didn't grow up in a I mean it was
a smaller town, but not really a small town. I
grew up in a suburb of Oklahoma City, but we
still had that like And I've talked about it before.
There there was big empty fields out in front of
in front of my neighborhood, and there was an old
folks home there that, for the longest time, all the

(01:23:43):
kids in the neighborhood were convinced was a mental asylum.
And we used to dare. We used to dare each
other to see how close we could get to it.
Before because there was a there was an old urban
legend for as long as I've lived there about a
guy who was housed in there that was a werewolf.
And it was always this thing, especially especially in the
month of October. It would I'll give you five bucks

(01:24:04):
if you can just get as close to the old
the back of the old folks home as you can
through the field before you before you freak out, and
it was just this the thing that we did all
the time. And then there was this there was this
road in our neighborhood called Treat Drive, and the urban
legend in that area was that the lady that lived
on the corner of uh I think it was Treating

(01:24:25):
Brown was a witch. And it was that was that
was the street that almost nobody went down for Halloween
because because of that, they were just they were afraid
they were gonna gonna get eaten by the witch. So
I mean, but but these things they still persist. I mean,
the last time I was in that neighborhood, there were
kids still talking about some of that stuff. I mean,
the old folks home one doesn't really persist anymore, but

(01:24:48):
the crazy lady in the house on the corner, that
story's still there. I mean we're talking about I mean, granted,
I'm fifty two at this point, so we're talking about
I moved into that house when I was three, So
that's that's how I mean. I'm sure those stories were
some of those stories were probably around before I ever
even moved in. So it's just weird how often those
things just continue. And again, you would think in the

(01:25:11):
twenty first century, things like that would start waiting. If anything,
it seems like they're picking up speed again.

Speaker 12 (01:25:17):
Well, yeah, they're they're fueled by the Internet, They're fueled
by Reddit. And you know, it's hey, really quick, uh, al,
are you having a math stroke?

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
Why what's he doing?

Speaker 12 (01:25:28):
Well, you said train and then all of a sudden,
you're typing a whole bunch of pluses and minuses and numbers.
So just checking on you'll, Hey, you're having a math stroke.
That math is for Sundays.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
It was gonna I was gonna say, I mean, we're
we're getting closed to Sunday on East Coast time, but
we're not there yet, So I hope he's all right.
Maybe he was starting to do something else and forgot
he was punching on in his computer. Yeah, small town.

Speaker 12 (01:26:00):
Yeah, you know what I was when I went back
to the town I grew up in the abandoned house,
was this place was weird. It was just filled with
the floor was it was just weird. I mean the
rooms in it were too small for like even a bed.
You know, it was like an office but not really
but and you know, the whole place was just newspapers everywhere.

(01:26:23):
It was just creepy. It made it creepiest was it
was pink and green, so.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
It the house was pink and green.

Speaker 12 (01:26:36):
Yeah, the house was pink and green. And yeah, no, okay,
small town mowen Camp appears. Now it's funny that you
just said that, because then I know that was pink houses.
But anyway, yeah, it was. It was a pink and
green house. There was news. The lower floor just had
newspapers all over the ground, and then upstairs was just

(01:26:56):
this giant room. That's all it was. So, I mean
we used to go up there and you drink, and
you know, for some reason, setting masking tape on fire
was the thing to do in the house. I don't
know why.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
Why not?

Speaker 12 (01:27:10):
Yeah it was something to do. But yeah, it was
just creepy. And you know, we'd always party there after school,
but as soon as it got dark we beat feeted
fuck out of there. So but yeah, it's gone. There's
condos there now.

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
Damn condos.

Speaker 12 (01:27:27):
Damn. So uh I got to deal with, as Bloddy knows.
Can we get another break?

Speaker 1 (01:27:35):
Yeah? I was about to do that anyway, Why don't
you go do what you gotta do and I'll just
roll the song again. I gotta reload it because my computers.
We'll be right back. Folks, stay tuned. This is a
new one from Jeff. If you miss it the first time,
it's we're repeating it now. Small town, small town, small town.
I still have not seen John Cougar Melling Camp. I

(01:27:57):
have him in my head now thanks to Jeff, but
I still haven't seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
Sh Ho holly.

Speaker 16 (01:28:27):
Shadows, crawling, need the pines, eyes like embers, cut through time.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Breath of on hills, the skin.

Speaker 16 (01:28:55):
Something ancient's weights within.

Speaker 13 (01:29:03):
They're out there, wash out, washing tat in the top
denock What if.

Speaker 15 (01:29:11):
You got pay you must bread it off tomday?

Speaker 9 (01:29:16):
Watch watch.

Speaker 16 (01:29:23):
Clothes on pavements, silece breaks.

Speaker 14 (01:29:29):
Bo that coat, footsteps, no one makes.

Speaker 17 (01:29:41):
The bloody noise bas fearing bowl.

Speaker 2 (01:29:52):
You want to meet you walk.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
The old though?

Speaker 9 (01:30:03):
What in the dart that stock egg right, your bad right.

Speaker 18 (01:30:09):
Your most rye cor sauces.

Speaker 14 (01:30:58):
Bline, best human shame, no escape, no only game and
Gan Tonga cirstand true.

Speaker 15 (01:31:26):
A night pray that Joses who they're out there? Watch
watch eight in the dark dust dock ron.

Speaker 9 (01:31:42):
If you can't pray, if you must.

Speaker 18 (01:31:44):
Brad a dust command ontoss.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Ontos ontos.

Speaker 9 (01:31:56):
Oh oh h?

Speaker 15 (01:32:12):
Who the hell say.

Speaker 18 (01:32:16):
I say dat an attack that stock a run? If
you can't pray, if you're must rst come and die?

Speaker 9 (01:32:23):
Do you want? Do you want to? You wants? Okay?

(01:32:50):
Who the hell say.

Speaker 15 (01:32:54):
Say dat an attack that stock egg run? If you
can't play at your most hyas And I saw.

Speaker 1 (01:33:48):
And welcome back in. I think all MUSHes back.

Speaker 12 (01:33:51):
I think yes, say I'm sorry. I forgot to type
and chat.

Speaker 1 (01:33:54):
I was like, I'm starting to worry. I was like, yop,
he didn't pass out?

Speaker 12 (01:33:58):
No, no, no, no handled.

Speaker 1 (01:34:03):
Fun times, fun time.

Speaker 12 (01:34:04):
Yeah. Yeah, So you know what this topic has got
me thinking about, especially you know tonight's version. And excuse
me if you're listening and you're like going, well, you
didn't cover the moth Man, you didn't cover this. We've
got a whole month. We've categorized these all into different
types of classifications of cryptids. So if you didn't hear
it tonight, your favorite one's probably coming soon. Yeah, thanks Emdy.

(01:34:28):
I got to shine down from it too, well, Rob
Zombie shine down vibe.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
Yeah yeah, I had to turn them. I had to
turn on my camera in for a second, just to
prove I was headbanging so fun times.

Speaker 12 (01:34:43):
You know what I was doing is you know that
you know that scene in Ferris Viewer's Day Off during
the Dunk Dunk Shane thing song when there's that group
on the steps of a courthouse or a library or whatever,
you and they're all dancing and you know, you know,
synchronized dancing to it, and then they do that stamp
thing in the current in a circle.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
Yeah, yeah, I was doing that nice.

Speaker 12 (01:35:06):
So you know what this topic got me thinking of
is something we haven't covered on this and I checked
and it's still happening to this day. What was that
cattle mutilations? Remember how big that was in the seventies
and eighties.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
Oh yeah, I remember.

Speaker 12 (01:35:22):
Yeah, apparently there was reports as recently as twenty twenty
three in Texas.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
Well, you know, I mean, we know why Texas there's
one in chat Damn Alien.

Speaker 12 (01:35:35):
I thought you learned everything you could from cattle mutilations
and antal probing.

Speaker 1 (01:35:40):
You can never learn You can never learn too, You've
never learned enough from cattle mutilations and anal probing.

Speaker 12 (01:35:46):
Yeah, well maybe.

Speaker 5 (01:35:52):
So.

Speaker 12 (01:35:54):
Yeah, I do love this topic, you know, I'm glad
we picked it for this month because you know, it's
we've done a couple of cryptid shows, but not since Ron.

Speaker 1 (01:36:05):
Yeah it's been it's been a minute.

Speaker 12 (01:36:08):
Yeah, it's been a minute now. It was one of
his favorite topics that in shadow People. So but yeah,
we haven't done this one. I think the last one
we did with this was with bumb suck Ken when
we were talking Bigfoot.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Yeah that was.

Speaker 12 (01:36:23):
So that was fairly recent so well that I mean,
I mean recent for the show, but that was when
that wasn't long after they started doing FPF.

Speaker 1 (01:36:31):
Yep, and it's been over a year at this point
since they started doing that, so yeah. So but that
was more like the Bigfoot cryptids though, So this is
this is just kind of a mortgage border of cryptids
all month.

Speaker 12 (01:36:44):
So there are so many of them, you know, I mean,
I know, we focused on the United States and Puerto Rico,
which you forget it's a territory.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
Until that to bad Bunny. Oh wait, sorry, you're right.

Speaker 12 (01:37:02):
Yeah, but when people speak of them, you know, the
European case that cowers above you know, all the all
of them in the Americas is uh, you know, the
beasts of Gudan and between seventeen sixty four and between
and seventeen sixty seven in the uh the Ruggedoven region

(01:37:23):
of France, more than one hundred people, mostly women and children,
were killed by what witnesses described as a massive wolf
like creature. Your reports claimed that the beast was impervious
to bullets, moved within a natural speed, and showed no
fear of human settlements. The royal court became involved, dispatching
professional hunters, and even the kings owned guards, and in

(01:37:45):
the end, the wolf presented as a culprit. Yeah. Sorry,
In the end, a wolf was presented as the culprit,
but the body count, the repeated failures to kill it,
and the uncanny details left behind it burned into European
memory as the predator that seemed less animal and more monstrous.

Speaker 1 (01:38:08):
So well so, and making the wolf side of this
a little less believable. So is the fact that the
beast attacks weren't random either. Many victims were found with
throats torn out but bodies otherwise untouched, fueling speculation that
the killings were ritualistic rather than predatory. Some theorized a

(01:38:29):
trained beast unleashed by criminals, or a nobleman's exotic pet
escaped into the wild. Yet to locals, the predator became
mythologized as a scourge, divine punishment, or something beyond natural explanation.
The fact that newspapers of the time treated it as
both news and legend ensured the beast became Europe's template

(01:38:54):
for cryptid predators.

Speaker 12 (01:38:57):
You know, these things happen across the globe. Even real
animals have crossed into the threshold of monsterhood. You know,
where they're hunting became too effective. You know, in eighteen
ninety eight, during the construction of the Key Kenyon, you
got in a railway two lions in Tsavo killed and
eight dozens of workers in the span of nine months.

(01:39:18):
The lions repeatedly dragged men from their tents at night,
leaving behind bloody only blood stained ground. Colonel John Peterson,
who eventually shot them, claimed they had killed one hundred
and thirty five men. You know, obviously that number was
reduced in time, but even by modern analysis, the lions remained,
you know, confirmed that they had. It was confirmed that

(01:39:41):
they had consumed human flesh. And what elevated these lions
into legend was not just their appetite, but their tactics,
you know, there were hunting men as they were as
if they were herd animals, you know, to the terrified workers,
they weren't lions, but they were demons.

Speaker 17 (01:39:56):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:39:57):
And well, you know, it's funny because as the story went,
like skeptics later reduced that number. As you were talking
about a second ago, I'm wondering, I'm wondering if maybe
the lions became the scapegoat for the dude that owned
the lions to go on a killing spree. That's my
thought anyway. But you know that's just because I'm a
little weird like that. So the Sunderbarbins grove swamps of

(01:40:21):
India and Bangladesh tell a similar story. For centuries, Bengal
tigers there have hunted humans in such numbers that entire
cultures have a doubt have adapted with rituals of appeasement.
Fishermen wear masks on the backs of their heads, believing
it deters ambushes by making it appear they are always

(01:40:41):
looking behind them. Shaman leave offerings in the forest to
appease Dakhan Rajah tiger's spirits said to control attacks here.
Predator behaviors alone blur into myth as the line between
flesh and blood tiger and supernatural hunter does a survival.

(01:41:01):
Survival demanded not just weapons but stories.

Speaker 12 (01:41:08):
Yeah, you're getting back to Africa. There's you know, getting
back into cryptids. You know, there's the story of the
the Gumamani of the Congo River basin, you know, which
is described as a crocodile serpent hybred up to forty
feet long, with a serrated back and a jaw capable
of overturning canoes. You sightings go back decades with fishermen

(01:41:29):
reporting attacks on their boats that left gouges and shattered wood,
you know, inconsistent with hippos or crocodile attacks. You know,
Western researchers sometimes frame it as a religan dinosaur. I
don't know if that's less frightening or more right again
to the the mochial mimbi, you know, but the locals.

(01:41:51):
To the locals, it's simply a predator that waits beneath
the water, embodying you know, the fear of venturing too
far down river.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
So you know, whether there's vampires in Africa, don't you.

Speaker 12 (01:42:03):
Bye?

Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
Because holy water can kill them and they bless the
rains down in Africa. Okay, I'm gonna quit now. Yes,
I had to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:14):
I listen to that.

Speaker 12 (01:42:16):
Now I'm gonna have to go listen to Leo's version
of that to burn it from my head.

Speaker 1 (01:42:20):
To be fair, the only reason that's stuck in my
head so bad as I saw a reel of Nathan
Fillian telling that joke, and now it's permanently burned in
my brain.

Speaker 12 (01:42:29):
I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
It was kind of awesome, though, So back to the
cryptids now that I've scarred Almash for the evening. The
Popa Bawa of Zanzibar adds another wrinkle. The bat winged
figure first appeared in the nineteen seventies and triggered full
blown panics in the nineteen nineties. Entire villages fled their

(01:42:52):
homes at night, gathering in groups to sleep in open courtyards,
believing isolation made one vulnerable, so you decided to sleep
out side, I know anyway, So the Pope Abawa was
said to assault families in their sleep, leaving victims injured
and terrified. Unlike other predators, its target was not livestock
or the unlucky hunter, but the domestic safety of the

(01:43:15):
home itself. Skeptics point to political instability and the power
of rumor in Zanzibar at the time, but the panic
was real enough that it disrupted life for weeks. Here,
the predator doesn't just taunt the margins, it invades the
heart of the community. That's a weird one.

Speaker 17 (01:43:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:43:33):
The interesting thing about all these you know predators is
that they crossed the line from animal animal to archetype,
you know. The Beast of Giduvan, you know, was a
symbol of France's vulnerability in a time of political unrest.
The Tsavo lions were used as proof of Africa's savagery,
savagery by colonial riders, you know, despite being just perfectly
natural animals. The soundurabans tires, you know, they're both real

(01:43:58):
predators and spirits demanding be worshiped. The Papa Babwa became
a vessel for collective fear in a politically fractured you
know country East case. Each case shows the same pattern,
where predators press too close to human survival and the
line between you know, just your your average monster and
a myth collapses.

Speaker 4 (01:44:19):
You know.

Speaker 12 (01:44:20):
They it becomes they become the legend in and of themselves.
They they've our fear, plus their predation makes the mythical.

Speaker 1 (01:44:35):
And well, I mean, and you're not wrong, And there
are cross cultural echoes and all of this stuff. In
medieval Europe, the black dog haunted crossroads and lonely paths,
a spectral predator with burning eyes that that presages death.
In China, Tales of the TATTOOI described a monstrous, insatiable

(01:44:56):
mall that devours endlessly, a mythic reflection of famine, and
not unlike the wendigo that we discussed earlier in the
In meso America that the Nahul shape shifting predators who
could become jaguars or coyotes, learned the line between sorcerer
and beast, echoing fears of betrayal within the community itself. Everywhere,

(01:45:17):
predators become monstrous when they represent more than just hunger.

Speaker 12 (01:45:24):
Yeah, I mean, you can argue that all this serves,
as you know, practical survival roles, you know, in regions
plagued by lions or tires or bears on my you know,
these were tellings reinforced caution, you know, ensured children to
stay close to camp, codified respect for the dangers of
the wilderness. But they speak into something deeper, the recognition

(01:45:44):
that predators, natural or otherwise, they embody chaos and the
civilization that we build, you know, and and they resist it.
You know, as much as we press into the wilderness,
they press back. And uh, you know, these are reminders
that humans are not always the apex, and in certain
places we're still prey.

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
So modern parallels continue to this day. In this theme,
reports of phantom cats, black panthers or cougars spotted in
Britain where no wild populations exist to evoke the same moneys.
Farmers find mild sheep, hikers report large cats crossing trails,
and though most cases are written off as misidentified dogs,

(01:46:28):
the persistence of sightings shows a cultural hunger for predator myths,
even in industrialized landscapes. When real predators vanish, we invent
them anew.

Speaker 12 (01:46:41):
You know, these predators that have crossed in a legend
often do so not because they're the deadliest, but because
they transgress expectations. You know, wolves killed livestock across Europe,
but the god Evan beasts killed humans in uncanny ways.
You know, lions killed villagers across Africa, but the sava
are hunted organized camps. You know, tigers kill silently in

(01:47:03):
the jungle, but not people fishing on the side of
a river. You know, these attacks are so persistent that
spiritual frameworks were built around them. You know that these
were elevated into something bigger. You know, symbols and places
where human mastery falters. We re become the prey.

Speaker 1 (01:47:23):
And what unites all of these things is the enduring
sense of being hunted, whether by a lion that drags
you from your tent, a tiger that stalks you from
the mangroves, or a bat winged creature that violates the
sanctity of your home. These predators invert the human order.
They don't wait for you to intrude into the wild,

(01:47:44):
into their spaces. They come for you where you live.
The inversion is why the legends endure, because it's it's
the opposite of everything that we believe is part of
modern society. We can go into these spaces and we
can hunt them. They're not supposed to come into our

(01:48:06):
spaces and hunt us.

Speaker 4 (01:48:10):
Well.

Speaker 12 (01:48:10):
Yeah, and you know, as we talk about this and
on the political end all the time, but you know,
civilization is built on the presumption of safety. And you
know when you have these, you know, the Saba lions,
the pocoah bahwa, you know, these all represent that it's
an illusion, you know that. You know, they're not metaphors
of our choosing these events. Communities couldn't ignore and interpreted

(01:48:34):
it through the only language they had story, you know.
So whether it's an eighteenth century France, nineteenth century Kenyar,
or twentieth centuries a Zibar, the pattern repeats. You know,
the predator hunts too well, too persistently, too strangely, and
then the world bends, civilization bends around it, you know,
turning fact into legend, and what's left is, you know,

(01:48:56):
not a solved case, but trauma. And you know it's
retold until the predator becomes part of its own cultural landscape.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
It's terrifying, ain't it.

Speaker 12 (01:49:09):
Yeah, you know it's from the north. You know, whether
it's the Windngo that's weights in hunger or the back
roads of the goatmen, you know, they all focus on
the same core fear. We are not alone, we are
not always the hunters. You know, these aren't benevolent spirits
or tragic shape shifters. These are predators, you know, entities
defined by the fact that they seek us out and

(01:49:29):
test our boundaries and sometimes tear through us and them.

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
Oh so, I guess the takeaway for all of this, though,
is whether it's the eight whether it's eighteenth century France,
nineteenth century Kenyar, twentieth centuries an Zibar. The pattern repeats,
A predator hunts too well, too persistently, too strangely, and
the world bends around it, turning fact into legends. What yes,

(01:49:57):
in fact, not any form of a solft case but
a skull are we told until the predator becomes part
of the cultural landscape. And we've seen this over and
over and over again. In all of these stories, these
things have persisted to the point where everybody knows about them.
Even in the regional ones. Everybody in those regions knows
about them. And for the bigger ones, the ones that

(01:50:18):
have that stories and tales of them have spanned hundreds
of thousands of miles. There's details that just remain intact
across this, you know, this continent wide game of telephone.
That would be nearly impossible when you think about it,
unless there was something driving the details to remain the same.
Because and I've talked about this before. We played the

(01:50:41):
game telephone all the time when we were kids. You
could start the most just normal little sentence, and by
the time I got around the room, it was something
completely different. Can you imagine the stories remaining this much
the same across hundreds of miles, and not only hundreds
of miles, but we're talking about months and weeks and
years of travel time for these stories to be remaining

(01:51:02):
the same.

Speaker 12 (01:51:07):
You know what I find interesting about all this is that,
you know, it's that all these stories they tap into
something primal. You know, they remind us the old truth
that you know, for most of our history we were pray.
You know, the woods, the swamps, the rivers, they belong
to something else. And you know, and we put these

(01:51:30):
predators into our folk. Or we're not just describing what
hunts us, but we're admitting the world isn't domesticated and
it never will be.

Speaker 1 (01:51:42):
Well, and that's just it. You're right, I don't I
don't think it ever will be completely domesticated.

Speaker 12 (01:51:51):
Oh man, Yeah, because I mean, even if we pave
over every square inch, there's oh man, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:52:03):
Sorry, I feel like there's gonna be more that he's
gonna type in a second, but I didn't even know
that happened, So yeah either, I'm so sorry. So yeah,
in the chat, a quick personal anecdote. When my daughter
lost for a battle with cancer this past July, almost immediately,
are dogs who were sleeping in their run in the

(01:52:25):
backyard went nuts.

Speaker 12 (01:52:30):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:52:34):
That's interesting.

Speaker 12 (01:52:35):
Yeah, that ties into I yea, when we were doing
when we did the show about you know, quantum mechanics
and time in the acastic field. Yeah, I'm convinced that
dogs can tap into it too. You know, it's not
just our own pressiens. It's saying that's you know.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
Yeah, I'm a little I'm a little mad at Hollywood
right now because Corn and I supposed to be doing
the show about the ecostic field, and he's been busy
doing Hollywood stuff so we haven't been able to.

Speaker 12 (01:53:05):
Yeah, we're supposed to have him on to talk about Atlantis.

Speaker 1 (01:53:07):
But yeah, unfortunately.

Speaker 12 (01:53:09):
We're deep into we're just kicking off juck Stober right now.

Speaker 1 (01:53:14):
So yeah, I told him if we couldn't get it
done before, he'd probably have to be after and he's like,
that's fine, because I've got some Hollywood projects I'm gonna
have to work on for a while. And then his
mom started having issue so he had to go take
care of her for a while two and I'm like, dude,
just just table the show for now.

Speaker 12 (01:53:28):
It'll be here when you're when you're ready.

Speaker 1 (01:53:30):
So yeah, I don't want you feeling like you got
to stress over a podcast, my man. But no, I mean,
you know, it's just all of these things that just
just feed into one another, and it's it's it's astounding
to me to think about.

Speaker 12 (01:53:51):
Yeah, but it was like I was, I was saying,
is that you know, even if we pave over every
square inch of land, that's a blue ocean, deep deep
blue ocean, which strangely is what we were going to
be talking about next week. You know, we covered the hunters.
Now we're going to be dealing with the aquatics. Oh boy, Yeah,

(01:54:14):
that's I've always said I'm not afraid of the ocean.
I have a healthy respect for it. And that was born.

Speaker 1 (01:54:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 12 (01:54:23):
I was snorkeling in Maui. And if you've been to Maui,
you've been out in the ocean around Mali, you know
exactly what I'm talking about. Or you'll be swimming in
a depth of twenty thirty feet and then the coral
ends and it is just an abyss right below you.
And that Ever since that moment when I just realized
the depth, you know, you conceptualize you because you know,

(01:54:49):
from that, I had a healthy respect to the ocean.
That and when my dad and I were swimming back
to the shore, barracuda was swimming right next to us.
He kept telling me stay away from those rocks, and
then he's nudging me into the rocks. And then I
look over on the other side of him and there's
we're getting paralleled by a decent sized barracuda.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
So beasy, I fish if fish pee in and I
don't swim in it.

Speaker 12 (01:55:13):
Yeah. See, I don't know if you had him across
the rest of the country, but we had him in
California with the arrowhead water bear. You know, I don't
know what the zoological term for is, but I'm quite
thirsty after hibernation. And yeah, there's a creak over there.
Do you know what fish doing that they spawn? That's

(01:55:35):
a little too natural for me.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
Yeah. My So, speaking of being scarred as a child,
my grandfather, who already knew that I really didn't like drinking.
As a kid, I didn't really like drinking water that much.
I prefer juice, kool aid, you know, even if it
was something flavored added to the water.

Speaker 12 (01:55:52):
Yeah, unless it was hose watered flavor.

Speaker 1 (01:55:55):
Well, I mean, And that was just kind of you know,
I was outside it was so dam hot. I didn't
care anymore. But for like two days, I would not
touch any water, and my mom wanted to strangle my grandfather.
And it was it was because it is stupid joke
that he used to tell everybody, because because he was like,
you look thirsty when we get you a drink, And
I'm like, yeah, I guess some water And he's like,

(01:56:15):
you know that stuff's not good for you, right, I'm like,
what do you mean? That's what my parents tell me.

Speaker 12 (01:56:18):
I need to drink all the night.

Speaker 1 (01:56:20):
He's like, it's terrible for you. Fish fucking it.

Speaker 15 (01:56:25):
Like you sad.

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
Now, keep in mind, I'm seven years old and my
grandfather just dropped the F bomb. People wonder why I cussed.

Speaker 12 (01:56:33):
So much, Whereas I use it as a comma. I
was born a construction worker's son, right, So oh so yeah,
first show in the bag, four more to go. I'm
hoping I've plotted this out so that way in the

(01:56:55):
fifth week of November, first we can have a round table.
That would be awesome, and yeah, I'd love you to
be there for that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
Trying to get Bez to join us again for the
Bigfoot one.

Speaker 12 (01:57:08):
Because yeah, that'd be good too.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
Topics and I don't know, I guess we could have his.
I mean, we can have up to ten people on,
so we could do a hell of a roundtable. You
meet you and well you other people.

Speaker 12 (01:57:22):
Yeah, as as we found on man Rama, when you
get too many people then you might as well have none.

Speaker 1 (01:57:29):
Well that's when you got to just do the traffic
up thing. And you know how it gets anyway, Usually
if there's that many people on, I just start pushing
buttons and let you guys talk. So it's kind of
how it's kind of how it works.

Speaker 12 (01:57:38):
Flip the switch monkey, no switch.

Speaker 1 (01:57:41):
Flippings, nothing, Well, I guess in a minute or so. Anyway,
So dude, we have like over a thousand people hanging
out with us right now.

Speaker 12 (01:57:51):
That's awesome. I mean, Crypton's are something everybody can relate to.
You know, It's like I was talking about, everybody's got
their their local beasts, you know, especially you know, I
mean again, maybe not so much in the city, but
you know, even in the city on the edges, you know,
it's I get all any news here, and I still
hear about cougars and mountain lions. I better say mountain

(01:58:13):
lions because cougar's is more mice.

Speaker 1 (01:58:14):
You know, I'm gonna say cougar's means something else anymore.

Speaker 12 (01:58:19):
Yeah, No, but you know, mountain lions, you know, they
get down you know, not deep deep into the city,
but deep into the suburbs. So I mean, you know
they're out there, and you know, I mean where I'm at. Yeah,
I remember I went on this one job site and
I was, you know, out there, you know, by myself,
and I'm looking down at this pawprint and I'm all,

(01:58:40):
either somebody was walking their dog here or that's a
big fucking cat and I'm going to be a meal
here soon. So fun times, right, Yeah, Yeah, it was
either a medium sized dog or one of the big cats,
you know, And intellectually I know that are out there,
and I still go in there. But again, armed human.

Speaker 1 (01:59:10):
Oh, we got so close. We're at nine eighty six,
almost made it.

Speaker 12 (01:59:18):
That's a rounding error. I'll take it. God, thank you all,
thank you all for listeninger tonight. Remember we got four
more weeks of this. If you're into cryptids, you know
where the show you want to hang on.

Speaker 1 (01:59:30):
Yep, and like like we said this, this is this
is our usual so normally for October now most of
the time, you guys will typically get this every couple
of weeks. Because we weren't able to do that very well.
We finally started figuring out we were able to do
the show better on our former off weeks than our own,
so which is why we stopped. But yeah, so far

(01:59:50):
with everything that I'm doing everything I can to schedule
anything that I have going on not on Saturdays. Like
I have two weddings in the same week that I
have to perform, one on the sixteenth and the other
one on the nineteenth. And they were they were trying
to push for the eighteenth, and I'm like, can we
do the nineteenth please? And thank you? That would be awesome.
If not, I'll figure it out. But yeah, they went
for the nineteenth, so I'm mayby.

Speaker 12 (02:00:13):
Yeah, I've got it. I've I've got one thing I've
got to do next Saturday. But it's early in the day,
so I mean things would have to go cataclysmically. I'm
not gonna.

Speaker 1 (02:00:31):
Okay, So yeah, So the well, the other thing is
because and it's kind of become a thing. And when
we started launching Juxtober and started picking a topic that
we were doing for the entire month, a lot of
other hosts started weighing in. So Monday, I have got
to check out Spirited Books because Aggie found a book
that dies into cryptis somehow and I gotta hear about this.

Speaker 12 (02:00:54):
Oh fantastic, that's great. Yeah, yeah, what do you got
going on this week?

Speaker 1 (02:01:01):
Well, Tomorrow night I'll be doing the new show that
I launched a couple about a week or so ago. Actually,
I guess it is up to two weeks ago now,
Kingdom and Country I'm gonna be for now. It'll be
in als Teim's a lot time Spot Tile Out comes
back because he's on break for October. And then Monday
night I'll be doing America Off the Rails. Tuesday, the

(02:01:22):
daily show starts to beginning that's ten am, and then
Tuesday night Manorama and then for everything else. Just take
the schedule because I'm pretty much on every day of
the week again because I've insane.

Speaker 12 (02:01:34):
That's good. That's good.

Speaker 1 (02:01:36):
Anyway, what about you? What are you got going on?

Speaker 2 (02:01:39):
Tomorrow?

Speaker 12 (02:01:40):
I've got the Vincent Charles Project, where myself and Vincent
and Jeff and Janelle Wase will be discussing the movie Sneakers,
the Robert Redford, Sidney Poitier, dan ackroyd River, Phoenix, got
everybody's in the Mary McDonald just a great cast. Ben Kingsley,
we'll we talk about that movie tomorrow. Uh. Tuesday, I've

(02:02:03):
got Manorama with you, and you know, maybe Jeff, Steve, Vincent,
some random Canadian and we usuld say that he's back
in Canada now. And uh, Wednesday, I've got Rick and
Alorady with you. But it's my light week, so I've
got nothing to do but get us ready for the
next show.

Speaker 1 (02:02:20):
Nice, nice, and uh yeah. So as far as everything else,
make sure if you are so inclined that you're following
along with Klin Radio on x, on Facebook, on YouTube,
and on Rumble, you can find me at rday Bick
seventy three. I also contribute to Misfitspolitics dot com, Twitch
You dot com and the Lotsparty dot com, and I
produced a Lot of Party podcast, which drops on Tuesdays.

Speaker 12 (02:02:41):
And and remember, if you like the music you hear
on the show during the breaks, if you like the
music on Jeff's show. Jeff has his album dropping on
Monday on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (02:02:51):
You should go check it out.

Speaker 12 (02:02:53):
Check it out.

Speaker 1 (02:02:54):
You know you want to buy it. You know you
want to buy it. Hell, I'm probably gonna buy it.
Buye everybody, Elhydra, no hailing of the Hydro. We've had
this discussion, hmm,