November 2, 2025 • 122 mins
Join Rick and Ordy, along with fellow KLRNRadio and SHR Media alum, as they discuss Cryptids for the final installment of Juxtober. From Bigfoot to Nessie and everything in between, they want to believe, and they know you do too.
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Episode Transcript
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The following program contains course, language and adult themes. Listener
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Speaker 10 (02:46):
Creamnes site Government Shadow Secretstie conspiracies, unfull.
Speaker 11 (03:03):
Loo sleep Strange Encounters. I explain to this out that
really shame men went knowther voices fall unleveling history stories, untold.
Speaker 12 (03:20):
A real fifty one whisper name, beautiful side, Haunting, Fay love,
miss Monster, a lottering myth.
Speaker 11 (03:39):
I'm also want Injurious Kiff Strange Encounters. I explain to
this out that really Shade none went knowledge as voices,
all lovely mystery stories unsold.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
See takes out this not for substanding.
Speaker 13 (04:04):
Flights continual straight JNS, sun splay shoot this out that
lately Shade win losses ball mytory.
Speaker 14 (04:22):
Sorry sont truth this out.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
This and good evening, American Welcome into Juxtaposition. This is
our regularly scheduled night, but it's also the round up
(04:50):
and roundtable for our jux sober episodes for cryptids. So
welcome to crypto Zoology. One oh one, I will one
of your professors for the evening. The other who's joining
you right now, you know him, you love him. He's
our resident Amish and right now he's the only one
on screen with me, because I'm gonna start introducing everybody
else one by one here in just a moment, But
(05:12):
I want to give you a second to let everybody
know how you're doing before I start bringing everybody else on.
How's you house things?
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Yeah? Can you believe we made five for five?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You know, it's like a record for us. I don't
think we've ever officially done that without at least one
having to be a remaker escape, right.
Speaker 7 (05:27):
I mean, it's I keep saying, I've said this all
about this. I you know, I don't like to create
more around juxtaposition, but we finally have a topic where
we had hiccups, but we weren't completely fucking cursed well,
and we did witches. We didn't get half the episodes done.
I mean, we'd have equipment failure right before the show.
(05:49):
And you know it's those of you who have been
listening for a long time know that I'm not making
that up. It's so it's yeah, it's nice to you know,
we did the full circuit and I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
All right, So the topic for tonight is, of course cryptozoology.
Actually I was inspired by juxtaposition or non juxtavision, but
from Fort Forensics because I kind of sat it on
there and he started talking about wondering whether anybody does
any college level courses on demonology and demons studies. So
I looked and they did, and I'm like, wouldn't it
be cool if there was something like that for what
(06:23):
we do? So I made it so since most people
don't like to be on camera, this is what we're
going with for tonight. For those of you that are like,
I look weird, let me actually completely duplicate what you
actually look like anymore without yelling at me. So I
had to get as close as possible. So but yeah,
so this is the Juctober Cryptid Panel, and of course
(06:44):
it's not Duxtober anymore, but it's a day over, so
we will take that. So anyway, my name is Rick Robinson.
He is ordered to j Packard. We're going to start
introducing the rest of the panel and of course ladies first.
As far as the introduction, Miss Aggie, how are you?
Speaker 15 (07:01):
I am doing very well. Thank you. How's everyone doing what?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I'm doing good? I'm doing good. I hadn't seen me
last night. My schedule has been thrown off all day.
But other than that, I'm doing good. I had all
kinds of plans for the day and then I wound
up staying up until like six in the morning, just
counting the thoughts on my ceiling.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Why am I not sleeping? And then I fell asleep
in it? That's no boy. Now you know I can't
even blame that being scared because we did ghost stories
last night. That wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I just couldn't sleep. I wish I could have at
least blamed that. That would have made sense, all right,
And next up, Next up on the hit parade, we
have our resident alien, otherwise known as the programming director
here at Kylon Radio dot com and uh general pain
in my ass.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
No, I'm kidding, HAJF. How you do by grap Thor's hammer?
What I'm here at Saturday?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
All right?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
We seem to be picking up.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Some echo from somewhere that I didn't have before, so
hopefully we can get that track down and h So,
next up, we have from shr Media, the one the
only conservative Sherpa otherwise known as Beezy or biff Zepp
depending on where you see it, Matt.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But how you doing, Sarah House? Things excellent?
Speaker 16 (08:18):
Thank you for inviting me here.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm glad to have you.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Then, of course, we also have from our Kaylin Radio family.
You may have heard him if you're if you're hanging
out from the last show, the one the Only the
Bumps doot Can who also is a huge fan of
cryptids and more specifically, I think and more specifically a
huge one of Bigfoot. But we'll definitely be getting into
that one tonight anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So how you doing tonight? Their house? Things?
Speaker 17 (08:41):
Oh, things are great here, and yes Bigfoot is a
brother of mine, so I'm partial.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well, you know we've seen you on the hammers, so
it's not all high.
Speaker 17 (08:52):
I'm assuming that's me there by Jeff, and I have
to say I'm pro that. Look, I'm good. I may
let my hair grow back out.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, that's about as close is like you'd get to
making one that kind of looked like you had kept
kicking you and BZ around into different places. So eventually
I just kind of gave.
Speaker 7 (09:06):
Up and what it was given me and then bearded
man and it pops up pretty close.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
All right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So anyway, so I'm gonna turn now that we've done
in the introductions, found out how everybody is, I'm gonna
turn this part over to almost for a second while
I try to dial a couple of things in.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So take it away sir.
Speaker 10 (09:28):
Or not.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
I'm sorry, I was coughing. So as we've traveled through
this whole month, I know we all have our favorite
uh cryptids, but I wanted to take for a moment
and ask Aggie, you, from your background anthropology, what is
what is the important role of cryptids and you know,
just the basic myth behind them or the legends behind them.
(09:51):
You just give us a nutshell ten thousand foot view
if you could.
Speaker 15 (09:55):
Well, it's you know, it's a basic you know when
you use oncome sprace or most of these mythological features
actually have some kind of basis in some sort of founding,
as in like something did happen to foster the legend
(10:16):
in one way or another. For example, sometimes the whole
thing with the one from my neck of the woods,
It it just so happened that the creature that they
saw happened to have the same type of characteristics as
you know, a particular.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
K nine, and so.
Speaker 15 (10:41):
They just went with that and it grew from there
and it spread throughout Latin America. So now we have
this creature that has fostered a lot of myths, a
lot of fostered movies. With Eric Estrada, you know that
kind of thing. So most of the myths that we
see do have some grain of truth to them. It's
(11:03):
just that it has been overblown usually by third, third
hearsay or fourth hear say. You know, you don't how
remember how we played telephone and by the end it
wasn't anything near whatever it was at the beginning. That's
kind of the same way that these things actually progress.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Yeah, so a lot of it too, I think, you know,
as we talked about it on the episode last week
when we were doing hominids, there's a bit of fossil
memory in us too, where we we remember that for
a while, we weren't the only hominids on the planet.
I mean, it's well known that we it co exists
at the same time as Neanderthal, and there were several
others around, you know, various parts of the world that
(11:52):
we have coexisted with over time. So it's kind of
like just it's you know, it's the other the ones
who weren't who's on the outside, on the other side
of the campfire ring.
Speaker 15 (12:04):
Yeah, and you know, there there are there are. There
is a school that says that a lot of these
things that we do see, like Bigfoot, could be a
remnant of a former hominid that evolved separate from you know,
Homo sapiens sapiens, So that is a possibility. I always
(12:25):
leave it open to the possibility of it, but that
is one way that it gets fostered.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
So so there you go. Mm hm, you're back.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, I'm back.
Speaker 7 (12:39):
Okay, all right, So do you want to lead us tonight?
Speaker 10 (12:43):
Right?
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Master?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I'm wait, I'm the ring master. I'm just I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Ready, So, I guess since Aggie was one of the
first ones to pipe up, we'll start with her. Of
all of the various crypt there out there, do you
have a specific favorite of your own?
Speaker 15 (13:04):
Well, I can tell you that the Tupacbra is not
my friend, so I'm not sure if most people listening
you know the tupacabra is actually a very new.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Just to make sure we're on the same page. So,
are you saying that chuop Ofcabra is your friend with benefits?
Speaker 12 (13:21):
No?
Speaker 15 (13:23):
No, I don't ever want to hear that again. Better enough,
I read a book about that crap.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I took it.
Speaker 12 (13:34):
No.
Speaker 15 (13:35):
No, the Cupicabo legend is actually pretty recent. There was
something that happened back in the nineteen seventies in Puerto Rico,
but it never took off, and the Tupacabra actually took
off for on nineteen ninety five in that time range,
so it's relatively recent. It's very very new, and because
(13:58):
it actually got false just as the Internet was being born,
it actually took off really really well, you know, whereas
you know, something like Bigfoot that had a word of mouth,
had a you know, that had to be fostered, you know,
by two cans and a string. So the Chupacabra has
(14:21):
established itself in a relatively short amount of time compared
to most of their cryptos. It's not my favorite because
it always kind of makes me not happy. As I
was telling you, I used to watch Unsolved Mysteries all
the time because Robert Stack was just absolutely adorable and
(14:42):
I just loved his voice and everything. That was the
one episode I never watched again ever.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
So no, I just don't.
Speaker 15 (14:53):
But I do like there is one in West Virginia
called the flat Woods Monster, and I always thought that
that one was kind of cute. Everybody knows Mothman, you know,
but the Flatwood Monster was kind of a CRYPTI that
was out there. It was more of a They thought
(15:14):
it was a metal type of monster or some kind
of machine or something to that effect. But I always
thought that that one was kind of cute.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So I like that one, of course, like the cute
ones I do, and I got to.
Speaker 15 (15:31):
Give you know, Mothman was actually kind of cool too,
simply because I happened to like butterflies and moths, you know,
and everything. But but that one, it's like, yeah, you're
good looking, but just stay over there, you know, that
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So just page you were talking about the one that
started having stories, talked about it sometime in September of
like the night of like nineteen fifty two. Because if
sod by the description, I don't find it cute show
I don't really know what the flat with moster.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Yeah, it's wondering too.
Speaker 15 (16:07):
It's kind of creepy, but then you know, you step back,
it's kind of like a monet. So when you step
back it looks kind of cute, but when you're right there,
you're like, yeah, that's not very cute.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's ten to twelve feet tall with a shaped head
and blowing red eyes. What about that is cute?
Speaker 15 (16:26):
Okay, So it has become a cute thing. And this
is this is something that happens when people revolve around
a particular myth and particular cryptis they actually adorify it.
They make it adorable. You've seen what they've done to sasquatch,
(16:47):
You've seen what they're don't to NeSSI, You've seen what
they've done to all of these where you have stuffed animals,
you have cute little cartoons you have, you know, they
cutify it and everything, and so when they fight the
Flatwood Monster, it actually looked kind of cute.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
So that's been in my head.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
It's been.
Speaker 15 (17:10):
But I always thought that it was kind of cool
because it had, you know it, there was no other
bases other than deciding and you know, a couple of
people talking about it, and it just spread like wildfire.
And then you know, some people started saying, well, that's
not what we saw or you know, for whatever reason.
(17:33):
But it actually took hold in that area so much
so I believe it or not, it actually became part
of you know, there's a lot of glass makers in
West Virginia. One of them is Blanco, and Blanco was
actually in the downturn it. They were about to close
(17:54):
up shop and they decided to actually make a decanter
called the Flatwood's Monster, and it was you know that
the candor to the bottom part was green and the
actual part on the top was red, you know, and
it had two little eyes and everything. And because it
was a limited addition, people just fell in love with
(18:17):
that thing and it sold out and then people started
noticing Blanko again, so it saved them from pretty much bankruptcy.
But now everybody loves this thing, and every so often
Blanco will actually put out something that has a Flatwood Monster.
And they're not the only ones that do it. A
lot of glass factories have their own little Flatwoods Monster
(18:40):
and it because it because it was made cute. See,
and this is this is a problem that cryptids have.
They want to be you know, mean and frightening, but
society eventually just messes it up for everybody because women
(19:00):
get involved and everything's made cute. Tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean, even if you were wrong, you never admitted.
Speaker 17 (19:14):
Can what she's talking about about the cutes making them cute?
Because uh, you know, Chappy, the American lockless you know, yeah,
they have a huge thing about these little plush's and
making on the sweatshirts and all these kinds of things,
(19:34):
and he's always here. Within the past few decades, I've
noticed very cartoony with the oversized eyes and.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Very sweet looking, very cute.
Speaker 17 (19:45):
So I can see, uh, I can see what she's
talking about with the flat Woods monster. But I'm kind
of curious why why she doesn't like the chebocabre that's
why she's.
Speaker 7 (19:59):
Against it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, well, she liked it, she liked it a little
more before the last book she read about it.
Speaker 15 (20:05):
Now I think I know the concept of the chupacabra,
how it grew from a mangi coyote into this being.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It it.
Speaker 15 (20:17):
Actually, I come from a very superstitious people, I really do.
I'm not as superstitious as some of my relatives in
Puerto Rico, but I mean my entire island dribes on
melodrama and superstition and telenovelas. So I get it from
somewhere right. And when this started happening, I mean, you
(20:40):
had people from the local news desks coming and interviewing
this woman. I kept saying that this is what she
saw and that it was a horrific thing and whatever.
Fast forward to unsolved mysteries and Unsolved Mysteries actually has
a mockup of the description that she had get the
(21:02):
first description that was given to the press. It was horrifying.
This thing had like fangs and blood red eyes, and
it had it was hunched over, and it had spines
down its back and the claws and all that stuff,
and it was just it was it was really ugly,
(21:23):
and it was really it was. It was creepy. And
it did not help that the lights were off when
I was watching this, but that made it, you know,
that made a very big impression on me. So I've
always had a Yeah, no, I've actually gotten a little
better because again they have made it cute. You go
(21:46):
into the store and you find chupacabra seasoning. I don't
know if they carry it throughout the States, but I
know they carry it here in Texas at AGB specifically,
and the little chupacabra is really cute. It's an adorable
little mascot that they have. So again, probably a woman
got involved and this is why. But when it first
(22:08):
came out, it was actually a very horrifying rendition of
the description first given to the press by that by
the woman that claimed she had seen it. And after
that it just everybody else's renditions kept getting I mean
almost to the point of it was a xenomorph. That's
(22:28):
how bad some of the renditions were. So it was
kind of creepy. I'm like, I'd rather take my chances
with a Yetti or you know, sasquatch, bigfoot, whatever you
want to call him, but not the chup of Cabra.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Sorry, I've realized I was still muted. I think I
have it narrowed down. I shot a message to the
person who I think it may be, and I think
it's just headphone leads back happening from time to time
because I kept watching to see who was randomly lighting
up when Aggie was talking. All right, so let's go
ahead and take the first break to try to get
this dialed in a little bit better. And then when
we come back, I'm gonna see if Almosh has a
(23:14):
favorite one, because I know for most of the rest
of the panel, besides maybe the alien, I know who
their favorite is going to be. Probably, so we'll save
that one for later. But as we often do here,
thanks to our resident alien Jeff, we do have a
new musical composition for the evening and We're going to
go to break while we play that for you guys. Now,
I don't give Al much time to make sure his
(23:34):
tea and all that stuff is set up properly, and
we'll get the echo dialed in a little bit more
and then we'll.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
Be right back.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So hang out and check this out from Jeff. It's
a long one, but I'm gonna play the whole thing
just because I haven't even gotten to listen to it yet.
I was too busy working on other stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So here we go.
Speaker 14 (24:29):
You may have been married.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Where as the dog got man.
Speaker 14 (25:15):
Breathing the water side the water.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So we cry.
Speaker 14 (25:28):
Something and cried. We see the guy, We said, alive alive.
Time the oil mar Hi faced the dog and stole.
(25:53):
It's like we play.
Speaker 13 (25:54):
We burned, We laid it out.
Speaker 14 (26:12):
All see.
Speaker 15 (26:14):
Shadow swish.
Speaker 10 (26:23):
Do remember each step.
Speaker 14 (26:26):
We may step. We made voices called from the hollow brown.
We followed the south and we served around.
Speaker 13 (26:45):
To die.
Speaker 14 (26:49):
We survive by byelay out of lie, remaining jo something more.
When we made it its side in old guy, the
(27:12):
dog breached out.
Speaker 11 (27:13):
We cut that time, we roll, we bought, We made.
Speaker 13 (27:17):
A live live live.
Speaker 14 (27:24):
Do you feel that true?
Speaker 5 (27:27):
True it's still the waiting, waiting, wait.
Speaker 14 (27:38):
No name, So it's us. We may raise the money
(29:28):
by the night night. Don't want you want to reframe.
Speaker 13 (29:36):
We said, hey, we want the five.
Speaker 14 (29:38):
We made it out. It's so.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Giving yourself a round of applause was a nice touch,
but it is earned. So welcome back into the program,
ladies and gentlemen. We are having a discussion in the
behind the scenes room while that was playing, and I
guess the amish one has deferred his turn to the
alien one.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
So Jeff.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
First of all, you are killing it with the music, sir,
So thank you for all the work you put into
that for this month, because that's been absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I have to admit you've caused me to up my
game a little bit on the music production side, so
I'm actually learning how to do some of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I'm still not anywhere as cool as you are at
it yet, but I'm getting better. So getting better, yes,
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Anyway, So as aside from that, so of course, the
panel for ton Itises To of course discussed cryptids and
so one of the first things I wanted to do
before because I know a big chunk of the show
is probably gonna get eaten up by Bigfoot because that
that seems to be a lot of folks favorite. But
I wanted to see if you had any other specific
favorites before we get into that one. I have now
(31:37):
remember yours are restricted to Earth Earthling cryptids.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
For for the show purpose, I decided to pick the
third planet from the Sun. I ended up doing a
four page I don't want to call it a scientific document,
but a four page proof that not only does this
(32:02):
creature exist, but scientifically could and that is champ.
Speaker 9 (32:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I know everyone thought would maybe nassier chance, but there
are some interesting things here about champ that unless you
live in Vermont like I do, you don't pick up
on a handful of things. Champagne is not your average
New England lake. It's one hundred and twenty five miles long,
(32:33):
it can get over four hundred feet in spots. It
stretches between New York and Vermont and kick where you know,
so it has a wide gap. Not only that, but
when you actually sit outside of Lake Champlaine, and it
doesn't matter which side, it actually does feel more oceanic
than it does lake And it's interesting to note that
(32:59):
the last ice a this entire region was part of
what was called Champlain Sea, a saltwater arm of the Atlantic.
Now what is really fascinating to me is looking at
the fossil record of Vermont, because in eighteen forty nine,
railroad workers of all things, in Charlotte, Vermont, twenty miles
(33:22):
inland of the lake, dug up the remains of a
beluga whale in a farmer's field. Now that skeleton is
still on display at the University of Vermont's museum. So
there be whales here, Captain. So it kind of proves
that the DNA of Lake Champlain's ecosystem could and can
(33:46):
be oceanic, depending on where you're at. It's deep, it's cold,
it's oxygen wreck it's connected to the sea through the
Richelo River up in Quebec. So from an evolutionary standpoint,
it's kind of a perfect place for something marine to
get trapped, adapt and hang around long enough after its
cousins kind of went back into the salt water. Why
(34:09):
do you keep trying to talk like like you're from
the Syropine Union Iron You have to put up with
that on Tuesday nights.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
That's Okay, he's doing it.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's key deck because I'm making fun of them.
Speaker 17 (34:22):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
One of the things I love about this story is,
with a lot of things that you guys covered in jocks,
the locals were talking about something in this lake long
before what anything showed up in sonar. The Ibanaki called
it tatasakalk, and the story has described the creature that
rolled like logs and breeze like a deer. I'm sorry,
(34:44):
you can't classify that a dragon. That's kind of a
more of you know, a surface animal. Then, of all people,
Samuel Day Champlain wrote in sixteen o nine about a
serpent like fish twenty feet long and thick as a cask.
So you have some historians talking that up to an
over excited sturgeon. But really, really, that's what you're going
(35:07):
to explain it as. And then of course Sandra Mancy's
photo in nineteen seventy seven, the big One.
Speaker 17 (35:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Honestly, no one really has just proven yet, so you
have enough historical basis to go, okay, this is possible.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Well, now we.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Delve into the science of champ a little bit. Thir
In the eighties, doctor Philip Rains at the University of
Vermont ran sonar surveys and recorded large, single moving targets
and depths between one hundred and twenty and one hundred
and eighty feet. We're talking about fifteen to twenty foot
returns moving at approximately three knots. Not a school of fish,
(35:46):
not a submerged log drifting with the current. In two
thousand and three, doctor Bruce Wright, a marine biologist formerly
with I know this probably discredits him a little bit,
but formally with a LED a new sonar and thermal
imaging expedition was a Discovery channel searching for Champ. Episode
(36:08):
and his team found heat signatures moving independently in the
frigid low layers of the lake, So in forty degree water,
the only things producing self generated warmth are either engines
or living organisms. As a side note, it should be
noted the Weirdo's in Vermont, which I am unfortunately a
(36:29):
member of for nineteen years, the government actually passed the
resolution in nineteen eighty three protecting Champ from harm or harassment,
which actually makes it harder for people to find out
if Champ actually exists, So they kind of created a
self defeating hurdle or protection. If you will. Now, of
(36:53):
course this leads to biology questions. We're gonna play a
little bit of taxonomy game. You have creatures like a
giant eel hypothesis. The American eel already lives here. It
can grow up to six feet maybe more, and technically
it can hibernate in mud for years, literally shut itself down.
(37:13):
So that's possible, but you're really only looking at six
to eight feet here. You have the fresh water seal theory.
We have landlocked seals in key Deck Flachs de Marine,
a remnant group from the ice age Champlain Sea. New
creatures adapted the fresh water and decided to stick around.
You have that lineage, a few thousand years of evolution,
(37:35):
and you have another possible pipeline of possibility. And of
course everyone's favorite but most unlikely, is the Pleosaurus holdover
that somehow it's just a dinosaur that never died or
or just adapted. But the problem we come with Champ
is the lack of sightings. Now, I re search this
(38:00):
a lot for this show tonight, and one thing I
one thing I had trouble finding was anyone who ever
associated long term metabolic shot shut down with these creatures.
We have the African lungfish, who can survive years in
dry mud cocoons waiting for rain. We have the Greenland
shark that lives four hundred years and barely ever moves.
(38:23):
You have lake sturgeon that can sit motionless days regulating.
Speaker 7 (38:26):
Oxygen and move with no effort.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
So now let's build this alt to a creature who
has adapted to this environment. This could actually explain why
some sightings comes in burst separated by years and or decades.
It's not magic.
Speaker 7 (38:41):
It's just a.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Reformed, refined form of hibernation, and oddly it does fit
the timeline. Sightings spike during warm years when algae blooms
increase fish population. If you will, a biological alarm clock
(39:03):
saying hey, dinner is ready, come and get it. Of course,
this leads to why haven't we found it? If there's real,
why aren't there any bones being found? Okay, unless you
live here and have spent time on Lake Champlain, you
have no idea what this lake does the things If
(39:23):
you drop a tree limbon, you will never find it
within a year, and by two years it's mush. The
lake is actually a cidic. It is very low lit
and it's really full of scavengers, which if you've seen
some of the scavengers are kind of creepy as hell.
Even the larger fish skeletons vanish quickly, and I mean
(39:46):
very quickly. So something dies down in the trenches, it
will get eaten, dissolved, and compacted into the cell before
you even find any hint that it ever existed, So
you have to or the what if factor of this.
If it is some descendant of a Champlaine sea creature
(40:07):
that got trapped, it necessarily isn't monstrous, which is why
I think it was Ken that was mentioning earlier the
flair to make it more friendly. A lot of people
in the scientific field in Vermont have deemed it not monstrous,
that it is just simply a varied version of a
sea form, so much so that the Vermont Lake Monsters
(40:31):
baseball team has it as their mascot. It is believed
to be, with the latest findings to be twelve to
twenty feet in long, a little more eel like, with
a little bit of seal head formation. It is believed
to be a combination air breathing and lake breathing, slow
(40:51):
and rarely surfaces. It shouldn't need to eat often. It's
cold blooded and deep watered metabolism actually makes that even easy.
So between Burlington and poort Henry, which is the one
of the largest areas that it has the most sightings,
(41:11):
it is fascinating to see what can happen at that
sea during the summer, of the winter and all the
all the seasons. And it leads me to think, Okay,
I am a scientific mindset, I have to look at
this scientifically. There is evidence that this lake once held
(41:36):
creatures as large as whales. It has produced sonar the
target size of a truck, it yields the occasional mysterious photo,
and it is technically deep enough, cold enough and geologically
old enough to host something that we just haven't caught yet.
So do I believe there's room and lake Lake Champlaine
(41:58):
for a mystery with fins? Yes, yes I do. I'm
not saying champ actually exist, but I can find no
scientific reasoning that it doesn't exist. And there have been
mornings that I've sat out in the Lake Champlain where
(42:18):
the fall girls off the water. I look out and
I do think maybe today will be the day I
get to see it. It's not all I hope to
see it, but just maybe maybe today, I just want
that little bit of glimpse of continued hope that we
know so little about this planet that something the size
of champ could actually still exist. And part of me
(42:41):
also hopes we never find out if it is real
or not, because the myth and the lord built around
is just so tremendous.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, I can definitely see that. I'm kind of I'm
kind of that way too. I kind of like the
mystery more than more than the certainty. So I kind
of like things being to to the point where they
can't be proven, but they can't really be disproven either. Yeah,
And that's in my whole My whole goal in the
last two weeks for this has been trying to scientifically
debunk this possibly happening.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I could not.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, I mean you know that that says a lot,
especially for you know, some dude with a you know,
alien physics degree. All right, So Amish as we as
we keep moving along here, how about you, do you
have any specific favorite or favorites that you wanted to
talk about tonight.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
Well, I got a new favorite, and that's I do that.
You know, Beasy and Ken, we're probably gonna be doing
Bigfoot and being a resident in the Sierra Nevadas. It's like,
you know, I may interject to reinforce some points on that,
but one that's really speaking to me now, one that
I'm really coalescing my brain around is we talked about
it last last week, and you know, it's part of
(44:03):
the broader topic. How after we did our quantum mechanics show,
how that seems like some tumblers are, you know, clicking
into place on some things. And it made me re
evaluate the metacryptis of the internet, you know, and as
tulpu's And if you don't know what a tulpa is,
it's a tibit. It's a thought manifestation in Tibetan mysticism,
(44:24):
where an entity is birthed through intense concentration until it
becomes autonomous. It's they use it as a spiritual exercise
of a tested discipline, but in the digital area, it's
become an accidental experiment in applied consciousness physics. Now, so
I okay with quantum mechanics, as we talked about, is
(44:45):
that the future informs the past as much as the
past informs the future. And in quantum mechanics, observation creates
in the most thumbnail sketch, observation creates reality, where you know,
a particle is in a wave form until it's observed
and then it coalesces into the reality. Now this was
previously tested before we even really understood quantum mechanics. There
(45:10):
was a study done in Canada in nineteen seventy two
where researchers invented a fictional ghost named Philip, and they
held seances to contact them. Philip answered tables, shook, and
the group in the seance the mass hallucination became measurable
and you know, science called it the ideal motor effect.
(45:34):
But the entity, through though invented, behaved as if it
was aware. So again this is tying the consciousness to
the quantum field. By running this experiment, they appear to
have created the ghost Philip. So you flash forward to
now you have a seance on a planetary scale where
(45:56):
you something like you know, the picture of man. You
know that was invented in two thousand and nine on
the on the Something Awful forums, And it wasn't like
a new thing. It had been a traditional arc type,
the tall, lanky dark man at the edge of the woods.
You know, the Germans called him, uh I'm probably gonna
(46:17):
butchert this uh der grobman who would steal children away.
And you know, and we've had this in other topics.
We've discussed with shadow people, where you know, one of
the theories is that they're tulpas they've been invented by
the person experiencing the stress. So what happened at that
(46:38):
moment is when those two pictures, those two photoshops that
created Slenderman hit the Internet, it's like it collapsed the
arc type into one thing and then all of a sudden,
it just went back through history. It's like it was
it may have been invented at that moment, but then
it was thrown back in history because it hit every
key of every culture that had the tall, dark figure
(47:02):
in the woods. And you know, we reinvented in the
nineties with the hat man at the end of the bed.
So you know, while the Internet didn't invent these things,
it's kind of like maybe it did. And then you know,
it didn't invent the archetype, but it invented the persona
that seated itself back through history. Another one of these
(47:25):
is the you know, it's okay. There's a creepy pasta
on the internet now that's called the back Rooms. And
but before there was the back Rooms, there was the
elevator game. And Ken I know you and you guys
talked about this on front Porch Forensics with the case
of Alisa Lamb in the elevator at the UH should
(47:50):
I drew John a blank in the name of the
hotel in Los Angeles where there was a forum game,
a game popular in Korean and Japanese forums where you
board an elevator alone, and part of the ritual was
you would go to floor two, you'd press the buttons
for four, two, four, six, two, ten, and five, and
(48:10):
when you hit the fifth floor, if a woman got
on the elevator, you weren't supposed to speak to her
or look at her, and you were to ride the
elevator back to the ten flour. You'd be able to
go into another dimension, but you'd be able to get
back out. If you spoke to her, you were doomed
to that dimension until they kicked you out the way
that she was found in the water tower dead several
(48:30):
weeks later. This when again flash forward into the back Rooms,
which is just as created by again the Internet, just
this yellow static, faded yellow, kind of like endless office space,
and that's taken on a life of its own two
to be populated with center bite things like from the
(48:51):
Hell Raiser or you know, kind of like the uh,
the Purgatory and Beetlejuice. But that's taken it on to
where people are now talking about they remember having dreams
about that or escaping that long before it ever hit
the Internet. And yeah, I know a lot of people
make a lot of shit up online and you just
go online and tell lies no way. But it's the
(49:13):
fact that it's just happening. It's not in a condensed spot,
you know. It's like on one like right on board,
someone will talk about this dream they remember having as
a kid, and then someone else will connect it over
to the back rooms and say, hey, you know, these
things are cross pollinying and all of this on the
quantum mechountic level, you know, on the quantum scale where
we're creating these space, these liminal spaces just by you know,
(49:39):
like I mentioned before, it's a seance of billions of
people on the Internet getting hooked on their creepypasta and
spreading the memes and everything. This also goes back with
the moth man, the blackbirdis chernobyl, and the O'Hair winged humanoid,
where you know, entities appearing at these sites of psychic
or physical pressure. In a classic timeline, they become omens,
(50:03):
but in the quantum one there are also side effects
where they've now the pressure has created the omen back
in time. So all of the sightings of these things
before the trauma, they became the warning. So it's kind
of like that which came first chicken or the egg
(50:25):
kind of thing. So completely by accident, quantum physics has
joined us at the campfire with these stories. And that's
really what is bending my brain right now on cryptids,
and I'm really starting to embrace that that meant that
whole melieu as it were, you know, as we used
(50:46):
to make the monsters to teach a lesson, and now
we're making them because we're bored, and they have the
same effect in some cases more cecil hotel, thanks Biff.
So all right, yeah, that's where I'm going tonight.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Nice all right, So, like I said, I think most
of the next hour is gonna get chewed up by Bigfoot.
But when we bring the other guys in more officially,
I'll see if they have any others they want to
touch on first, but to round out this part of
the program, the one that I wanted to talk about.
Then it's kind of a I think we've talked about
it before, but I've never really done that deep of
a dive on it before either.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
The fres No Nightcrawler.
Speaker 7 (51:30):
We touched on that years ago as in a side
when we've did. We did a Crypti show years ago
and we just kind of yeah, that one. I was
actually now that you mentioned it, So why did I
take that one? I'm in California. I'm glad I didn't.
I would have soln your answer.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Eh, I would have just typed in Oklahoma. Group did
real quick and found something else to talk about.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
No big deal.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
But yeah, So as far as this thing, and the
reason it was interesting to me is because I still
think it may have I still think our resident Alien
may have.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Been out spreading his seat. No comment, I'm just saying so.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Its appearance is described as pale or white humanoid with
extremely long legs, very small upper torso, and often no
visible arms. Many accounts say it looks like a pair
of walk like a set of walking pants, was first
documented by close circuit security footage in two thousand and
seven in the city of Fresno. Because of the odd
form and few sidings, it has a unique place of encryptids.
(52:25):
It's not a giant ape, not a sea monster, but
some form of strange, leggy humanoid. So the original sightings
and evidence started showing up in two thousand and seven.
The man, often referred to as Jose the Hilopinio on
a stick I'm just getting had cameras set up to
monitor his dogs they were barking at night. According to reports,
(52:47):
the footage didn't show a typical animal or intruder, instead
something pale and leggy gliding across his yard.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You had me at leggy, but just saying.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
The creature appears to walk from frame to frame, with
its entire height dominant by its legs and a minimal
upper body. The original CCTV footage has reportedly been lost.
What circulates is a grainy monitor capture version instead. It
was also spotted in Yosemite Lakes Park, California, in twenty eleven.
(53:16):
There have been other reports ever since, off and on
over the years. Some reports claimed sightings or footage in
other places like Poland, Montana and creatures resembling this but
kind of more kind of having a night coraler's look
as well. So it does have again very specific characteristics
(53:37):
and behavior. Pale white, extremely long legs, relative, relatively small torso,
no upper arms or upper body. It all ever been
seen in detail, often described as gliding or walking forward,
sometimes with a slight sway. Because of the odd proportions,
the gate appears really really unnatural. In the original two
(53:59):
thousand and seven c there were total of two figures
up here, one following the other. Many reports say they
are often seen in pairs behavior. There is no known
aggression to have been reported, no definitive interaction with humans,
more observation than attack. So so this this one's not
really in the vein of a scary cryptid, but more
(54:20):
of just what the heck did I just seep crypted
from the people that have actually managed to get a
look at the thing, So I don't know that that
one kind of caught my attention, So.
Speaker 7 (54:36):
Yeah, I like that one. I remember when we did
it too, we had the it was before we were
able to do video, because there are video clips of
it out there too, but we were doing the stills
of it just creepy.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah, I just thought of that almish. I didn't load
it though, I have to find it. Well, we'll add
it in the next hour. But anyway, all right, so
we've got a few minutes left, so I guess, since,
like I said, I think a lot of the next
hour is going to be chewed up by Bigfoot, I'm
going to start with Beezy first. Other than Bigfoot. Do
(55:09):
you have any other favorites that you want to mention tonight, sir?
Speaker 16 (55:13):
Well, no, my my shin dig is is Bigfoot. But
I became interested in that in nineteen sixty one, which
is weird because I read a big book by Ivan D. Sanderson.
So I'll defer until the next hour, thank you, sir.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Okay, just wanted to make sure and uh and I
know for Ken that's kind of usually the one you
want to stick with too, but I didn't know if
maybe you had a lesser known one that you wanted
to talk about in hour one.
Speaker 17 (55:38):
We could talk about the the not deer, you know,
the knot animals of the Applasian Mountains.
Speaker 7 (55:44):
I doo if y'all want sure.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
I mean, we got a few minutes, just go and
lay it onnest real quick.
Speaker 4 (55:50):
The the knot.
Speaker 17 (55:54):
Most commonly it's called a knot deer nt deer, you know,
but there's other versions of animals that are called knots,
and there's a knot horse, a not a dog, not wolf,
sometimes not owl. Basically, what it is is it's a
(56:14):
creature that just is not right, and it shows itself
to be.
Speaker 4 (56:22):
Kind of normal.
Speaker 17 (56:27):
As a showing a like that first glance, you think
it's a normal creature, right, But on closer inspection you
start noticing things are off. The body shape is a
slightly longer than it should be, or perhaps the legs
are a little more longer than what.
Speaker 7 (56:49):
Would be normal.
Speaker 17 (56:52):
You have the eye instead of being on the side
of the head like a normal deer, like a preyer,
a prey animal would be. They're forward facing, like a predator.
Speaker 4 (57:06):
And they are.
Speaker 7 (57:12):
Said to.
Speaker 17 (57:14):
Show no fear or unnatural curiosity toward people. Whereas most
animals would run away from you, these will actually come
up and investigate, and basically they just act unnaturally toward you.
Now the Internet, we'll say that the not deer is
(57:39):
created from twenty fourteen from like a creepy pasta. I
think that's what it comes from. It's what they say,
and that's where it officially gets its or you know,
it's the origin story.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
It said.
Speaker 17 (57:55):
It was birthed on the Internet in twenty fourteen. It
was from a Tumblr post by user will of the
Witch and described it as an appellation folk cryptid, and
the tumblr poster says that after hearing whispers from the
(58:19):
locals of the applation areas is what made him share
the story. But there's no internet mention of a knot
there or an animal before twenty fourteen. And I remember
when that all come out, people was like, well, that's
just that's just a story made online, there's nothing to
(58:42):
it and all that. But you know, I grew up here.
I remember vividly as a child being told about the knots. Again,
the knots were common Boogeyman top legend, and the knot
there was the most because we are covered up with
(59:03):
deer around here, you know, so we would see the
not deer most commonly. I've never had a verifiable like sighting,
but I have, you know, growing up in the woods
to spend a lot of times. They have been some
moments that animals haven't acted right or acted like the
norm and a lot of people say, well, maybe it's
(59:24):
got rab's or it's got some sort of wasting disease
or something along those lines to cause them to act abnormally.
And sure, you can write it off like that, but
there's something about the knots that I always appreciated because
of the I guess it's strictly a Appalachian mountain range
(59:49):
top floor or history. And again, growing up in these mountains,
we lived all those stories and all those moments and
all those cryptids. So to me, I don't count anything out,
you know, And the knot deer has always been one
(01:00:11):
fuhne to me, I said, it's been described as standard
size of a deer may be a little more slender,
but the hip alignment, the spine alignment, the angle of
the knees and the feet, things like that are always
just a little bit off. But the way that it moves,
(01:00:34):
and especially things that it eats. A knot animal has
different teeth. They're more predatory and they will eat meat
when normally an animal woodn't. No rabbits or the deer
things like that not known as meat eaters per se,
but a not animal is and they can be dangerous
(01:00:57):
to a human. There's no there's not many record recorded
events of one being somebody being attacked by one. So
much is just being stalked and otherwise scared, and a
feeling of dread and even sickness comes over you when
you're around them. But I don't seem to be overly
(01:01:17):
violent or anything like that. But like I said, the
Knots to me, are one that's I've always been interested in.
I've always kind of really locked that's local, kind of
regional to me. And it's not just the Bigfoot one,
which is you know, the number one guy, and I
love him, that's my favorite. But I figured tonight I
(01:01:39):
would just bring up the Knots as something that's local
to me, in regional to my area, and I always
thought it was really interested.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yeah, no, I have to admit, I know I've heard
of them before, but it's not one that usually steys
on our radar. And half the time, any time anybody
starts saying knots, only here is Knox, which is a
reference to a Stargate career set of characters.
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
So go ahead and drink now, all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Right, So I think we're gonna get things Reseid for
hour two. We're just about background on the top of
the hour, and I for when I'm out of drink,
so we're gonna have to go fix that. I want
to give a quick shout out and an apology to
the person that's hanging out on the Facebook chat.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
It's not that we don't monitor the chats.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
It's just that we're usually hanging out in the x
chat because that's where we get most of our people.
But I do want to give a quick shout out
to Aaron Ally and thank you for checking us out
on the Facebook feed.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
And we will be back continuing.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Discussion that too.
Speaker 7 (01:02:31):
I don't know if they can see the that we
do have a chat scroll in the main chat where
people from the different feeds can't interact with each other.
I don't know if they if that goes through to
Facebook or not.
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So uh, it does on the video side, but you
got to be unless you think it full screen, it's
really hard to see what it's.
Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
What's there, all right?
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
But anyway, all right, we're gonna take a break. We'll
be right back. My name is Rick Robinson.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
He is Ordinance J. Packard.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
You are listening to Juxtaposition as we finish our first
ever fully successful we managed to do every single episode
of it j O Oxtober. So we are gonna move.
We're gonna be back here in just a moment. I
really well, I guess I was gonna say I didn't
do a special intro this year, but Jeff made a
lot of special music, so I guess it didn't really matter.
(01:03:20):
I just realized that I did because normally I'll make an.
Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Intro for these and I didn't do it this year.
All right, we'll be right back, Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
It's because Jeff was making much better music anyways. All right, folks,
we'll be right back, stay tuned. Hello, friends, you have
(01:03:51):
a moment so that we may discuss our Lord and
Savior Minichy. No, seriously, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 14 (01:03:59):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
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Speaker 6 (01:06:07):
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Speaker 9 (01:07:01):
The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listenery
discretion is advised.
Speaker 14 (01:07:12):
Dream Man test.
Speaker 12 (01:07:18):
Read full name, out of side.
Speaker 10 (01:07:24):
Government, shadows, Secretstie, conspiracies on full welse.
Speaker 11 (01:07:31):
Straight incount science, flame to this out that fly, shame man,
my mother's voices, ball level history stories untold Area fifty
one the.
Speaker 12 (01:07:49):
Whisper name, Beautiful, sighting, spunting, flame, loveness, monster a watering.
Speaker 11 (01:08:02):
Myst's logy injurious Kiff, strage, encounter Sun. Explain to the
south the bray change men with knowledge, voices, fall.
Speaker 19 (01:08:18):
Of raveling, mystery stories unfold, She takes out, believes your
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continuous strage, encounter Sun explain to this out there bravely
(01:08:43):
change men would knowledge, faces, fall, love, noveling, history stories untold,
through the out better, through theself better.
Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
And welcome back into our two of our roundtable with cryptids.
And yes, Danny, you sounded better, So sorry I didn't.
I was in the middle of talking and figured that
would be easier than just trying to type it. But yeah,
I think we got the echo problem dialed in. At
least it didn't sound as bad in the second half anyway, So.
Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
We are back, We are live.
Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
This is our two of our Cryptosiology panel, and I,
like I said, I think a lot of this hour
will be chewed up by Bigfoot. So I think since
Bez hasn't had much of an opportunity to talk, why
don't you let us know how you got into this
whole Bigfoot thing and all that fun stuff. Since I
know it's been a minute since you've done one of
these shows with us, so since our audience has grown,
(01:09:56):
why don't we start there for you?
Speaker 16 (01:09:58):
Well, I have a lovely show. I'm very conservative. I'm
a conservative, sirpa. It's on Tuesday and Thursday nights, and
that's about all you need to know about me. I'm
slightly to the right. I think of Vlad Tepish, So
that will give you a great indicator as to my
political aims in terms of Bigfoot. Do you want me
to start there or shall I defer to someone else first?
Speaker 14 (01:10:20):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
No, Let's go ahead and start with you, because you've
been one of the quietest on the panels so far tonight,
so let me give you a chance to talk, sir.
Speaker 16 (01:10:28):
My interest came back when I was about eleven or twelve,
when Ivan T. Sanderson published a book in nineteen sixty
one called abominable snowman legend come to life, and it
was about They didn't call them cryptids, they called them
(01:10:49):
hominids at the time. And as a young boy, I
ate that up to the point where I went out
and bought my actual copy of this. I still have
my original first to day of that, and I just
ate it up. And then I also lived in this
Sierra Nevada mountains for twenty eight years at about the
four thousand foot level, where I would customarily get anywhere
from two to eight feet of snow every winter. So
(01:11:12):
having moved to North Idaho, people think that it's snowy here.
You Mores don't know what snow is anyway, having said.
Speaker 7 (01:11:20):
No idea, what sierra's cement is, Yeah.
Speaker 16 (01:11:22):
And sierra cement when you have to shovel, it is
just exactly that extremely high water content, not puffine fluffy anyway.
Moving on, I tend to look at Bigfoot, and that's
where I have sort of a focus, if you will,
from a scientific perspective. And I think one of the
(01:11:43):
people who was a great proponent of us sadly passed
away on September eleventh at the age of sixty seven,
and that was doctor Jeff Meldrum, and he approached bigfoot sasquatch,
cryptids of that ilk from a scientific fashion and what
(01:12:04):
he did. He was a professor, an American anthropologist and
an academic. He was a full professor of anatomy and
anthropology in the Department of Biological Sciences at Idaho State
University down quite a distance from me in South Idaho.
(01:12:24):
I was lucky enough to go to see him this
past May with myself and missus be Z. One of
the kindest, nicest, most generous individuals you will ever meet.
And if you ever see a show on TV and
they talk about bigfoot, invariably they'll defer and say something
(01:12:47):
like and doctor Jeff Mildrum, would you weigh in on that?
And that was the guy that they went to. If
you ever saw a photograph of the guy, you'd go, oh, yeah,
I've seen him before. Anyway, we went to go meet
him and he gave an incredible roughly two hour lecture.
I can't say lecture. It was a presentation of just
(01:13:08):
an analysis of the nineteen sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film
where people say, oh, that's just crap, that's that's a
bunch of crap. This is there guys insuits, and here's
what I took away. I wish everyone, I wish I
could have taken a video, but I was disallowed of
(01:13:30):
that presentation. I can guarant damn to you that if
anyone and everyone here were present in that presentation, you
would come to the conclusion that there is no other
conclusion to draw. But nineteen sixty seven in the Patterson
Gimlin film in Northern California.
Speaker 7 (01:13:46):
Always fell over the gay.
Speaker 16 (01:13:48):
That was a Bigfoot. And let's go back to nineteen
sixty seven because I always like to make this analysis.
Anybody remember two thousand and one Space Odyssey. That was
British director Stanley Kubrick. He released his film in nineteen
sixty eight, was filming it in nineteen sixty seven, and
(01:14:10):
if you remember, it was a Dawn of Man sequence
that was filmed on a British MGM soundstage and what
happened is extra chrome transparencies because that was as good
as the tech got at the day of Africa were
projected from behind and then that was by a dude
(01:14:31):
named named Douglas Trumbull, and then mimes were hired to
play the apes. So if you ever remember the Dawn
of Man ape scene from two thousand and one A
Space Odyssey, that was the state of the art then
now then as opposed to now. If you watch that scene,
(01:14:53):
the first thing you think is guys in suits. But
at the time, out of a ten million dollar film,
Stanley Kubrick spent over one point seven million dollars just
to try to get what he considered to be the
apes right. There's a dude that he got named Dan
Richter who was very thin, and got him to play
the primary ape on that. The costumes were designed by
(01:15:17):
a guy named Stuart Freeborn, and that was honestly the
state of the art art in ape movements. And they
were all special effects professionals, they were all suit creators.
They were all there in film that was as good
as it got, that was the best available for their time.
And like I said, you look at that now, the
(01:15:39):
first thing that you're going to say is that's stupid.
That was the best that anybody could do. At the
end of this, if you were to go and watch,
if you would have attended anyone of the presentations with
doctor Eldram made with regard to just that film, just
the Patterson Gimlin film, you would come back convinced of that.
(01:16:03):
And he approached it in truly and only a scientific
fashion in terms of, well, he was an anthropologist, he
was a physiologist, he studied, he was a doctor of anatomy,
Man eight, etc. And with that background, he went into
(01:16:27):
the film essentially framed by frame by frame. One of
the biggest two things that I took away from that
presentation that he made is that, yep, that's a sasquatch.
And the other thing that I took away from that was, yes,
you can't manufacture that in any other way. And there
(01:16:50):
are six reasons that people customarily say in terms of
linkage to the Patterson Gimlin film in nineteen sixty seven.
The first thing is they're talking about the and this
is what doctor milnerm hit on the biomechanics and the
gait of the creature in the film. And so, like
I said, Meldrum is an anthropologist, he's a primate expert.
(01:17:13):
He knows his stuff about orthopedics. He talked about bentony propulsion.
He said it would be absolutely, very very very difficult
for a man in a suit to try to demonstrate
that it's more natural for non human primates to show
(01:17:35):
that and in the film what you see if you
look at it, because there are all sorts of videos
that you can see on YouTube, if the best video
to see is the one that which creates it, I
can't think of the word. It creates a motionless view
of the film. That is to say, what's the word
(01:17:57):
I'm looking for? Stabilized. It's a statelized view of the film,
and it's not nearly as wonky as the original eight
millimeter film. If you look at that one, you can
see and come to the conclusion. I believe that you
look at you look at the muscles, you look at
the musculature, you look at the length of the arms,
You look at the head and the style of the head,
(01:18:22):
and the fact that it appears to be a female,
and the fact that it actually has breasts and it
continues to walk. It's the movement beneath the skin of
the creature that to me lends veracity to this thing.
(01:18:42):
You can see the flexing of the calf muscles, you
can see thigh muscles, you can see the glutes, you
can see the back musculature. So once we got the
technology to the point where we could stabilize and in hants.
Then you can see past that low frame rate in
(01:19:04):
the resolution of the thing that the body proportions of
the creature are such that the arms are longer in
proportion to its body length than human arms, and the
torso to leg rank length. I guess ratios are also different.
(01:19:26):
The other thing that he pointed out is when you
have prince, and he's also a collector of prince and
has been through decades. I believe the largest collector of prince.
His was the largest collection. And when you look at that,
he speaks to what is called a mid tarsal break.
(01:19:51):
And the mid tarsal break occurs in the foot and
when we step off, when humans step off and move forward,
our gait is such that we move and push ourselves
to a degree from the ball of the foot.
Speaker 7 (01:20:08):
Now, a true.
Speaker 16 (01:20:10):
Cast of what people believe may be a sasquatch or
a big foot print is such that you can see
that mid foot a little bit past mid is what
they call a mid tarsal break. And originally that was
from a creature such as an ape, that would braciate,
(01:20:32):
br ac chiate through trees, limbs, et cetera. In other words,
they were sufficiently fascile that they of course could utilize
their hands fingers, opposable thumbs, and they have things that
are similar to that an eight so that when they
brecate they can grasp with their feet. And I heard
(01:20:56):
somebody about to ask a question.
Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
No, actually, I think that was just room noise being
picked up on a mic somewhere. Okay, never Actually, if
I can interject with b Z a second, sure, what
is the fascination with Bigfoot being a forest dwelling creature,
not a necessarily subterranean creature who comes up to the
(01:21:21):
surface as you would find in darren Coou, Kappadocia, Mattiott
and Turkey, where you had up to twenty thousand people
living underground with kitchens and wells and storage. Has anyone
ever done a like a lidar scan of where Bigfoot's
typically and habit.
Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
I don't think so.
Speaker 16 (01:21:43):
You could say that also, of there were Indian cultures
in the Southwest that Doug Caves and Doug Holmes, they
didn't involve any any cryptids or things that could be
interpreted as cryptids. But doctor Milon addressed this not from
(01:22:04):
a manner of locale, but from a manner of strictly
an anthropological and a skeletal viewpoint from whatever evidence that
he had. He said during the lecture that one of
the best, one of the things that he'd gone so
many years making investigations of this. They he said, if
(01:22:27):
I die and I don't actually make a viewing of
a Sasquatch, I will be so disappointed. Before he died,
he got his wish. He went out on an expedition
with Todd standing and was able to actually see one.
Speaker 7 (01:22:45):
I had what I believed to be a viewing of one.
Speaker 16 (01:22:50):
I can tell that later on another day. It's going
to be too long for this show. But I appreciate
in particular the view that doctor Mill had in terms
of examining this only on a scientific basis. And the
other thing that I found that was interesting after having
gone to that that I drove twenty two hundred miles
(01:23:11):
to Broomfield, Colorado, from North Idaho, about ninety miles south
of the Canadian border, strictly to go see doctor Meldrim,
myself and missus b Z. And it was probably the
best two days that we ever spent. It was two
days on the road, two days there and two days back.
I drove four days in a car, and I would
(01:23:31):
do it again to see him. Sadly, he passed away
of brain cancer at the age of sixty seven in September,
which is an extreme loss. But his attack on this,
his examination of the Patterson Gimlin film, was solely in
terms of a scientific examination of what was there. And
(01:23:55):
if you were to have listened to what he said
in comparison to a stabilized version of that brief film,
you would essentially come away convinced. And then after that
I made a very interesting discovery. He mentioned two things
that were very important to me. One was the mid
(01:24:18):
tarsal break, and that's something that you do not see
in humans. The other thing that he mentioned, because this
is just.
Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
What he did.
Speaker 16 (01:24:27):
When humans walk, we break our foot, like I say,
from the ball of the foot, and that is how
we advance and go forward. And if you were to
look at you know, next time you think about this,
humans do not walk in a linear fashion. So if
you see footsteps in mud or sand or snow some place,
(01:24:48):
or you know, having been in the water and you
see the footprints there, you'll notice that humans don't walk
in a linear fashion. We alternate our steps obviously, but
they're not straight. And one of the things he pointed
out with numerous illustrations is when you see alleged indications
(01:25:10):
of a bigfoot or a saucequatch. And again, I'm referring
to a rather limited area. You know, I'm not going
into all sorts of other things. I'm just going to
into the things that primarily he's seeing or he was
seeing in Idaho, California, Colorado, Wyoming, northwest kind of like that.
(01:25:32):
To my knowledge, he did not do any examinations, nor
was he particularly interested in things that were in the south, southwest, northeast,
what might be in the.
Speaker 7 (01:25:48):
Southeast.
Speaker 16 (01:25:50):
His experiences were limited in terms of that's where he
could go to find these things. But then I went
back and I looked at this big old hanging book
that I have right here, and I'm looking at this thing.
It's about a three pound book from nineteen sixty one,
and on page seventy eight, I remember doctor Meldrum saying,
(01:26:11):
you know, when I see these prints, they are linear
in nature, and they do not alternate in that fashion.
They are very straight. So I'm looking at page seventy
eight and way back in nineteen sixty one, there's a
photograph of what they considered to be a YETI and
YETI prints. And finally, only now did I recognize and
(01:26:35):
understand that these prints in this book, in a photograph
from nineteen sixty one show the same damn thing. It's
a linear walking pattern. So I come from a physicality
examination of this. Other people say, well, they're interdimensional, okay, whatever,
I can only look at well, people say, how come
(01:27:00):
we've never found any any bigfoot skeletons. While up in
the Sierra Nevada Mountains we had wild hogs, and I
had seen two or three along with bear when I
would go hiking with my Ruger Alaskan in four fifty
four cassault just in case. And when I went hiking,
(01:27:27):
you know, you would get the kind of creepy cruller feeling,
so to speak. And that's my frame of reference in
terms of physical stuff. I don't know anything about inter
dimensionality or any other location. I can only speak to that,
and to summarize in a rather lengthy exposition, if you
(01:27:52):
were to have seen his presentation, he might even have
a video out there somewhere.
Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
At the end of it.
Speaker 16 (01:28:00):
After an hour and a half, two hours, whatever it was,
after he spoke, you would be convinced that the Patterson
Gimlin film is real. And the people that think that
it's bullshit, I'm afraid they're not coming at it from
a scientific standpoint. And that was his standpoint, and he
was He was booed and hissed, and people in his
(01:28:24):
field in Idaho University would be little him. And if
you were to listen to him, you'd understand very quickly
this is a highly educated man, very well versed in
his field of anthropology, biomechanics and the like, a very
very highly intelligent individual. And now once with his passing,
(01:28:47):
I'm afraid that a lot of this stuff, at least
with regard to Bigfoot, is going to be ridiculed again.
But there's history in this, and I'm sure Jeff will
realize this. When you talk about Gigantopithecus black Eye, that's
the reference. You're talking about something that there is skeletal
(01:29:10):
evidence of a creature not too dissimilar from Bigfoot of
ten eleven feet, and there are numerous examples of skeletal
remains from that. So I come from my curiosity of
Bigfoot in Sasquatch is not only that I was living
(01:29:32):
up in that area for a long time, but I
just found it very interesting in light also of the
viewing that I had. So that's my story and I'm
sticking to it. Thanks for allowing me the amount of
time to bloviate and Bigfoot your show, sir, Well.
Speaker 7 (01:29:53):
I want to jump in here real quick on a
couple points because also living in the Sierras at seven
thousand feet. First, like to kind of answer Jeff's question
about you know, doing light our tests on the area
of the habitat. We're talking about from the Kern River
up through the Sierras down through the PMW coastal British
(01:30:15):
Columbia and parts of Alaska. You're talking over a quarter
million square miles of area. You could have a colony
of five hundred basically never easily.
Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Who And that's my my when I did my it
TC about Bigfoot slash yetty the fact that they don't
typically explore the cave probability the underground society because quote
unquote human society has shown a preponserance of societies hiding
(01:30:54):
from people and the easiest way to do that is
below ground.
Speaker 7 (01:30:59):
Well, yeah, definitely, And there's I mean, there's a lot
when you're talking about the Sierras. I mean you're talking
the one of the largest temperate, contiguous temperate zones on
the planet. You've got mountain slopes coming down into mountain
drainage into uh blowdown tangles into I mean, the area
(01:31:23):
is just so vast and you know, you know, if
you had mentioned people say, well, you know, why don't
we ever find you know, bigfootbones. So that's urban brain
thinking because it is you know, the soil is very
acidic in the Sierras. Plus you know the weather and
everything else. If you I mean, if you're hunting deer
(01:31:45):
in the Sierras and you shoot a deer and it
doesn't go down and it bounds off, if you don't
track it, that deer is gone, well you know.
Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
What already to emphasize your point there, think for how
many years the Elephant Craveyard was a thing.
Speaker 7 (01:32:04):
Oh that myth lasted into the early part of the
twentieth century. We knew about mountain guerrillas and had never
found a body until we started following them in earnest.
Speaker 4 (01:32:14):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (01:32:15):
But yeah, so like I said, that's just urban brain thinking.
Why you know, I mean with predation and you know,
my crowbial you know decay plus the city of the
soil one weather pattern comes through the Sierras.
Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
And also well, and it's funny because I want to
bring Ken into here because I know him and his
wonderful I was gonna I want to reference their show
real quick because you know his his wonderful wife, who
couldn't be on the show tonight with him. Well, she
jokes about being able to bury a body with no evidence,
(01:32:51):
and I know Aggie has mentioned the same thing.
Speaker 14 (01:32:54):
It is.
Speaker 15 (01:32:55):
This is not a judgment zone.
Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
No, no, it absolutely isn't. But the but you guys
present facts that are undisputable of being truthful that it
would be real easy to do. Now extrapulate that to
an earth sized area of coverage. Come on it. The
probability of finding bones is next to nothing. It's and
(01:33:24):
it's like finding shit in the woods. You're not going
to do it unless you step in it.
Speaker 7 (01:33:29):
Well, it's like you know Biff talking about seeing the
wild the wild pig and the bear in here. Living
in the Sierras for forty years, I have seen five bear.
All of them have been in town, rooting through dumpsters.
I've seen one corpse of a bear and that was
on the side of a road in a heavy bear
crossing and it had gotten struck. Well, how Bigfoot has
never gotten struck by a car? Again, that's urban brains.
(01:33:54):
Most of the are logging roads, if that they're forest I.
Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
One of the benefits living in Vermont. I used to
joke that moose were mythology, that they didn't exist, because
for the first fifteen years in Vermont, I never saw
a moose. Okay, and then one night or one afternoon
with my now ex wife, we pulled over on a
(01:34:19):
mountain so I could urinate.
Speaker 7 (01:34:23):
And Iranya, Yeah, I know right.
Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
I went maybe one hundred and fifty feet in and
went to relieve myself. And after I was done, I
looked to my right. Seventy five to one hundred feet
away from me was a female moose in her little
her offspring. And if you do not know how big
moose are, I had no clue that moose was that
(01:34:48):
close to me until I saw it.
Speaker 7 (01:34:52):
They're huge. Yes, Like you know, I've walked parts of
the JMT, the John Muir Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail.
I'm not going to say I did the whole thing,
but I've done a lot of midsier portions of it. Again,
never I've seen thousands of deer, never one bear. But
before we move on to KD, I want to bounce
(01:35:12):
off Aggie again real quick. From an anthropological and archaeological
I know we kind of touched on it with predation
and decay, what's you know where? Where is that just
pure urban brain With not finding you know, the Great
Sasquatch graveyard.
Speaker 15 (01:35:30):
The problem that you have is that you are talking
about items that are carbon based, so they do biodegrade.
Speaker 10 (01:35:40):
And.
Speaker 15 (01:35:41):
Sasquatch is something that isn't you know, from the before
times where it could get you know, fossilized. That's a
problem that you're going to have. Another problem that you
have is that there are several species of animals that
(01:36:03):
do eat bone, hell, they eat teeth, So that's another
problem that you have to contend with. But a graveyard
actually would indicate if you were to ever find a graveyard,
it would in a kate obviously a sign of intelligence
because they are you know, convening the dead bodies in
one area. So in my opinion, the reason that you
(01:36:28):
probably don't find the bones is that they just they
have disintegrated over time, or they have been picked apart
by animals, or there are several reasons that are pretty
normal reasons as to why you would not find a
lot of bones. And most of the time people are
not really looking for They want to find the live dude,
(01:36:51):
not the dead one. So you know, that's one of
the that's one of the big ones. Most people aren't
looking for the dead stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
And I will add on to Aggie having been part
of some research and rescue attempts, Even when you know
the last known location of someone, it can take twenty
four to forty eight hours if you're lucky, to find
someone who is actively trying to be found.
Speaker 7 (01:37:23):
Yeah, I mean yeah, especially you know, yeah SNR up
here and you know, Beff knows it from the other
side of the Sierra is sn R. That's a week
long process, you know, before it becomes a recovery, you know.
And that's just I mean, it's the area is just
so dense, just so overgrown.
Speaker 16 (01:37:45):
So well in terms of search and rescue. The other
thing that is quite common on that is people don't
stay where the hell they are. If they're in a car,
they need to stay there. They never stay anywhere they
get out they walk around the even more difficult to
discover to find.
Speaker 7 (01:38:01):
Them, being on the mouth of death Valley. Every corpse
and death Valley is somebody who left their car.
Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 15 (01:38:10):
Yeah, that's true, you know, and don't don't forget that
as even though the world is small, there are places
that human beings have yet to discover. There are places
in Hawaii, of all, places that people have never been
to because you can't get to it.
Speaker 10 (01:38:30):
So you that too.
Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
And to further enhance Aggie's point, you know, everyone loves
to say, oh, everything on Earth has been mapped, well
on a on a very overreaching arc. Yes, but when
you look at how little the ocean has been researched,
there's one part of Earth that has been researched even less,
and that is underground. Look how how frequently we find
(01:38:56):
evidence of underground water, underground oil, underground this and that. God,
there's no no amount of I would say better than
one percent of you know, a mile under the surface
that has been researched.
Speaker 7 (01:39:11):
All right, so let's get uh, ken, why don't you
jump in with your big foot observations while we're here,
Well on the topic.
Speaker 17 (01:39:21):
Well, the we're discussing about the bones and lack of
evidence there being spending so much time in the woods
being hoicking or camping or hunting or all those things combined.
For example, there's a spot not far from here that
I would go camping.
Speaker 7 (01:39:43):
Every time.
Speaker 17 (01:39:44):
I'd cash my supplies there and I would stay, and
I'd go back to the same spot, and in that
area lots of hogs, you know, faral hogs, lots of
deer obviously, things like that. That and I would run
across remains ever so often, usually you know, some sort
(01:40:09):
of kill or or whatever, something natural.
Speaker 7 (01:40:13):
So I'm getting that.
Speaker 17 (01:40:15):
But the next time you go back, maybe a week later,
those bones could be gone or spread out, or no
sign left them at all because of scavengers. You know,
ague is mentioning creatures that eat bones and even teeth,
and they're out there. So, uh, the side of a body,
(01:40:35):
whether it be you know, whether it be a bigfoot, whatever,
or hogs or deers, you name it, those remains aren't
going to stay there long at all. We're talking within days,
they'll be spread out and devoured within the month, within
(01:40:55):
a matter of weeks, there there's no sign left at all.
So when you look at an animal that like Bigfoot,
for instance, which is not near as heavily populated or
as numerous as deers and bears even you know, if
(01:41:18):
their body, their remains would be harder to find, just
because how many people here has seen a let's say,
a hog remains or or a deer, even which are
extremely populated, not on the side of the road. I'm
(01:41:39):
talking out in the woods.
Speaker 4 (01:41:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:41:41):
I will I will say I grew up as a
farmer on a dairy farm, and finding a cow completely
stripped of its leathers and maybe twenty five to forty
percent of its bones remaining, approximately three to four days
after its death is shocking the first time you see it.
Speaker 7 (01:42:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 17 (01:42:05):
It's like people don't think about how quickly they get
picked apart and spread out and again no sign left
within it.
Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
And with this seventy two hours, the only thing that
is remaining might be patches. And when you think of
cow's height, I mean that's what we use for leather.
Patches of that left no internals, know nothing else, and
not even half of its bone structure. It is crazy
to understand the efficiency of nature right exactly.
Speaker 17 (01:42:42):
And you know, there's some theories that Sasquatch actually bury
their dead as well, and that just adds another layer
if that's accurate.
Speaker 7 (01:42:51):
And like Aaron just posts on there.
Speaker 17 (01:42:53):
The even an elephant, the African elephant carcus doesn't last
longer than a week when they're when they're down. You know,
that's the efficiency of nature. Like you said, it cleans
up after itself and it recycles itself. So it doesn't
surprise me at all that we've not found legitimate bones
or or or anything like that from a Sasquatch.
Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
I would honestly be more shocked if we did find it,
because the luck factor that whoever finds the first Sasquatch
yetty bones go pullay the lottery. You're on that lucky
streak that.
Speaker 7 (01:43:30):
Is the lottery.
Speaker 17 (01:43:31):
You just wrote that, And I've always heard it said
that you won't find it unless you're out there looking.
So people who are naysayers that say, well, when came
they ever find this? Well, when have you ever went
and looked?
Speaker 4 (01:43:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (01:43:47):
Yeah, yeah, And going back to you know what Biff
was talking about with the Jesus Christ, with the Patterson
Gimblin film too. So for that have been hoaxed, and
you know, I know there's been a'm elaja deathbed confession
and everything. That was the right suit in the right terrain,
(01:44:11):
with the right mass distribution, the right shoulder with and
a gate with a hip hip to the mechanic that
I don't think Andy Serkis could pull off.
Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
That is a Goldilocks zone that is unbelievable in space,
let alone on Earth.
Speaker 16 (01:44:28):
As I indicated, you couldn't pull that crap off with
millions of dollars in Hollywood. How do a couple of
what they described at the time Rubes in nineteen sixty seven,
how could they pull that off?
Speaker 7 (01:44:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
I want to interject something. I want to interject something
for a moment because I'm I've been a Bigfoot believer
for a while. But Beaz's comment about the costume comparison
was one honestly, I've never heard before. And I even
I've been dming. I've been dming with already throughout the
show tonight, and I'm kidding. I damned you on Twitter
(01:45:07):
even when Bzy, when you said that about the costumes
that of movies. At the same time, I went, oh
my god, I've never really heard that before. So thank you, Oh,
you're welcome, Yes, but you you go back and look
at that movie.
Speaker 16 (01:45:21):
You try to make some kind of a cogent comparison
of the of a stabilized and slightly enhanced version of
the Patterson Gimlin film, and then look at that one,
and you're the first thing your brain says when you
see two thousand and one State of the damn Art
was suit.
Speaker 7 (01:45:43):
See. I guess Kuber didn't have the budget to go
back in time like he did when he faked the
moon landings on location.
Speaker 4 (01:45:49):
Well he had on that there.
Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Yeah, you know, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (01:45:54):
All right?
Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
So I do want to get some Oklahoma related stuff
in real quick as we get towards the end of
the program here, because I don't know if you guys
know this or not, but Oklahoma has in recent history.
It's all of one hundred and thirteen listed reports of
bigfoot or sat squads type encounters. You musing around naked again,
Well maybe, but not this one. In August of twenty
(01:46:15):
twenty five, so as recently is just a couple of
months ago, a motorist on State Highway four observed a
big foot type creature crossing the Canadian River, approximately fifteen
miles southwest of Oklahoma City. Now, of course, most of
the sidings are encounters are more in rural, wooded areas.
Looks it seems like Laflora County is a really big
hotspot in Oklahoma for that kind of stuff. But that's
(01:46:37):
because I think that's getting down towards the closest thing.
Do we have to mountains around here.
Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
Which are more like mole hills? But yeah, so there are.
Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
In terms of state wide ranking, Oklahoma has about two
point six sidings per one hundred thousand people, according to
an aggregated set of statistics that was able to find that,
considering Oklahoma only has four point five million people in it.
If you start to do the math, it seems like
there might actually be more big Foot than people in
my state.
Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
Just pointing that out. Not really, but I.
Speaker 7 (01:47:09):
Wish that was the case in California. Uh So, I
think we should probably wrap with since we focused heavily
on Bigfoot. Just go around the table and you know
your your final thoughts. Do you believe it? Do you
(01:47:31):
believe in Bigfoot? I think old ladies first start with Aggie.
Speaker 15 (01:47:38):
I believe in it. I think there is room to
believe that Hamanids still are out there and still are
intelligent beings and intelligent enough to stay away from the
crazy that we have become. So yeah, I totally believe it.
Speaker 16 (01:48:00):
I Bill absolutely, I had a sighting. I spoke to
doctor Mildrum about it. I'll regale that tale later, but
that in terms of the science that's been applied, yeah,
I'm I'm a believer in the best thing about Mildram
was he brought scientific rigor to the study of Bigfoot.
(01:48:23):
That's what I'll remember him for.
Speaker 7 (01:48:26):
And that's actually the rare thing about it too, is
because you know, getting back to the mountain gorillas and
you know the Elephant graveyard. You know, it's with the
mountain gorillas. Nobody, everybody thought it was myth until some
soldier came back with some samples, and then it was
you know, the whole British scientific field just descended on
the congo and then Jane Goodall stayed. But with his Bigfoot,
(01:48:51):
you have as much, if not more, evidence for Bigfoot
and science won't touch it.
Speaker 2 (01:48:57):
We'll moving on. Just what I think.
Speaker 16 (01:48:59):
If we can find a celacanth, why can't we find
a bigfoot?
Speaker 7 (01:49:03):
Yeah, exactly, And you can't de extinct something, you know.
That's like, there's so much photographic evidence of the Tasmanian
tiger now that you you know that they thought was extinct.
They just haven't caught a sample yet. But you can't
de extinct that one now either. So moving on, Jeff, Yes, sorry,
(01:49:28):
I just literally got back down.
Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
What were you asking me?
Speaker 7 (01:49:31):
Okay, sorry, we're wrapping up with it. Do you believe it?
Speaker 19 (01:49:35):
You know?
Speaker 7 (01:49:35):
What are your thoughts in Bigfoot? Do you believe it?
You know what's your fine?
Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
I would have I honestly would have been fifty to
fifty before tonight. Ez has turned me seventy five twenty
five in favor. That said, I am one hundred percent
believer of Yetti because I believe that that environment is
more favorable to hide life as we know it. But yeah,
(01:50:05):
I've always thought that there was a possibility of this.
Bigfoot has always scared the crap out of me, to
the point at my earliest age, the scariest thing I've
ever saw on TV was Chewbacca in Star Wars. That legit,
he scared me the first time I ever saw that movie.
And living in the border of Maryland and West Virginia.
(01:50:27):
I always heard all the stories and rumors and and whatnot,
so I've always thought there was a strong possibility of Bigfoot.
I do believe in Yetti more than Bigfoot, but that
does not mean I discredit Bigfoot at all.
Speaker 7 (01:50:42):
That's just when we were talking about YETI last week,
when because I had never heard that. You know, it's
also believed to be a rare offshoot of a prehistoric
pollar bearing rolling around. Okay, wait, wait that doesn't raise questions,
you know, so hey, that's that that alone should be like, hey,
(01:51:04):
maybe we might want to look into that. Ken.
Speaker 17 (01:51:09):
Yes, absolutely, Uh.
Speaker 7 (01:51:12):
I'm in the same camp as b Z.
Speaker 17 (01:51:14):
I've had family history with sasquatch here and uh I've
had a sighting myself, and I've experienced other uh you know,
the signs and the sounds and think whatnot while camping
and out in the woods and all that. So I'm
a Humbercent believer. I do believe it's a blood and
(01:51:34):
bone creature. I don't buy into the interdimensional side of it.
I don't think that's what That's something different Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yetie,
as you you know, they're all I think different variations
of the same creature, and I think it's a blood
(01:51:55):
and bone creature from gigantic gigant Epithecus. That's uh kind
of involved and depending on the area see.
Speaker 7 (01:52:05):
Believer. Yeah, I'm gonna give mine and then throw off
to Rick here.
Speaker 17 (01:52:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (01:52:12):
Absolutely, living in the stores, you know, I've never had
a siding. Yeah. I told a story last week of
guy that I worked with. He also owned a camera shop.
Man brought in some film to be developed, just you know,
vacation footage, and when he got it back, my coworker,
the guy who owned the camera shop, asked him anything
(01:52:34):
unusual that day you want to talk about and he's, oh, no,
not at all. And he's all, well, you know what
you know he was talking about. I can tell you
were up at this one lake and blah blah blah
blah blah. Here are the photos of it. And he said,
you know what, My kids just came running up said hey, Dad,
we need to see the camera ran off with the camera.
I thought they were just being you know, taking a
whole bunch of pictures of some gear or rock or
something and came back because they didn't say anything about it.
(01:52:56):
They were kind of like giggling and you know, like
they had an inside joke the rest of the day
and that was it. And the way that the man
who I used to work would describe it to me,
just the thousand yards stare he would get remembering those
photos was enough to seal that for me that they
were you know, localized, and just knowing the area that
(01:53:17):
I live in. I mean, they didn't find a bomber
in the Sierras that had crashed during World War Two
at Beach twenty five. It took him fifty years to
find it, and they knew where it crashed so generally,
so yeah, I it can't not be here, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:53:42):
So as for me, this has always been one of
those eighty twenty issues. I'm pretty I'm about eighty percent
positive the thing either did exist or likely even still
does exist, especially since I'm looking at pictures and stuff
from a siding that apparently happened in my necka would
just a couple of months ago. So yeah, I think
it's real. I remember, you know, I have a longtime
(01:54:05):
childhood friend whose family had a cabin down in Poto,
and I remember him telling me at one time when
him and his dad and his brother were down there
that they heard the usual you know, the hooton and
hollering from you know when we did the ones that
Look Like Us episode where we played that stuff. Yeah,
they actually talked about it.
Speaker 7 (01:54:24):
Yeah, sounds the one we didn't get and I've kicked
myself and I is the excuse me the Ohio scream.
Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
I thought about trying to find some of that stuff,
but I figured with as many people as we were
gonna have on, we were gonna be pretty much wall.
Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
The wall talking and I was pretty well right.
Speaker 1 (01:54:43):
But yeah, I think again, I do. I honestly believe
in most scryptids. So I'm just gonna throw that out there.
Since we've been doing this for five weeks, I am
a firm believer in most of them now, whether some
of them are you know, sheered delusion or this whole
new thing that we're finding out through quad mechanics of
you know, things that you find happening to you and
(01:55:04):
your present or even future decisions can somehow impact your past.
I don't know. Maybe that has something to do with it.
But you know, the more we delve into these topics,
when we come back around to them, and the deeper
we dive into them, meet you, and every time I'm
more convinced these things are real. But we are just
about out of time, so I'm going to start letting
everybody off the hook. Let's start with miss Aggie wherein
(01:55:26):
Folks find you.
Speaker 15 (01:55:28):
You can find me at Aggie the Barkeep and at
eight thirty pm Eastern Tuesday nights doing the Cocktail Lounge
with the Eperswamp Brad Slagger eight thirty pm Eastern Friday
nights doing he says she said with you. The second
Wednesday of every month, some of the guys right here
(01:55:48):
get together for Toxic Masculinity at eight pm, and I
bring the drink of the evening and last of not
please Jeff and I will be doing Spirited Books this
coming Monday, the first Monday of every month.
Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
At a You mean I gotta read a book tomorrow?
Speaker 15 (01:56:03):
Yes, you do.
Speaker 7 (01:56:06):
Better?
Speaker 19 (01:56:07):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
And all right, So next up, let's go over to
ken work in Folks find user.
Speaker 17 (01:56:15):
Uh at bump Stock can on X and I'm also
find me at at FP Underscore for Engines for front
Ports for Engines. Our show is Saturday nights, UH seven
pm Central until nine pm usually, and it's me and
(01:56:35):
my lovely wife, bump Stock, Barbie, and we do all
things criminal, serial killers, true crime, and uh sometimes we
get way off into weeds and just have a good
time with it. So that's where you can find me.
I'm always ready to jump in and be on a
panel wherever I can, So that's me easy.
Speaker 1 (01:57:00):
I don't want to hear about everything else. I don't
need to hear about how easy you are.
Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
I'm not kidding, all right, So, BZ, where can folks
find you?
Speaker 16 (01:57:07):
I'm on shr Media, I'm on KLRN. I'm not broadcast
live on Tuesday night. I am broadcast live on Thursday
night on KLRN, So you can find me. I'm a
late night kind of guy Tuesday and Thursday nights eight
pm Pacific, ten pm Central, eleven pm Eastern. Bz's Berserk
Bobcat Saloon Radio show. Be there, You've got to be there.
(01:57:28):
Aloha and aliens, Sir, where can folks find you?
Speaker 15 (01:57:33):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
I first want to make a comment nout about tonight's show.
A it was awesome. Panel was great. But the one
thing that struck me the most about this as being
an alien observer on human life on the planet, is
the exuberance of what Earthlings think they know. He surprises
(01:58:01):
me the you know one point, we thought we were
the center of the universe and we don't even understand
the planet that we exist on. So for the fact
that cryptos could exist absolutely makes sense. We need to
quit pretending we have a higher than fifth or sixth
grade understanding of physics, six or seventh grade level of
(01:58:24):
of you know everything else. We are still infants in
a universe that we're gaining knowledge on. So I hope
we I hope everyone that listened tonight took something away
from a lot of great opinions, because this has been
a fascinating show on understanding of what we don't know
(01:58:44):
that could be real and most likely is real. Now
that said, you can find me on Twitter slash x
at a Cosmic Bard. You can find me tomorrow on
the Vincent Charles Project at six pm Eastern. You can
find me on Lost Wonder at eight pm Eastern. Here
on kaylor And Radio talking space and science. You can
(01:59:05):
find me on Monday with Aggie talking about a book
I haven't read yet that I have to read tomorrow morning.
You knew this was coming, dude, Like I haven't been
busy with the Kailor and radio play. Whatever your tables
waiting bitter par do.
Speaker 4 (01:59:23):
You have one?
Speaker 2 (01:59:24):
Oh, it's a whole bunch of bitters. But yeah, other
than that, I think I'm off the rest of the
next week. So yeah, I'll be listening in the background,
producing and doing other things. So find me here and there,
all right, and Amish, Where can folks find you? I
think I've gone around the panel other than you, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (01:59:44):
No, I was keeping track. Yeah, thanks Risk. You can
find me as Ordinance Packard on Twitter. Surprisingly, still nobody's
more surprised than me.
Speaker 14 (01:59:53):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (01:59:53):
You can find me tomorrow on the Vincent Vincent Charles
Project at three pm Pacific with Jeff and Vincent. You
can find me Tuesday night. No, you cannot find me
Tuesday night on the Manorama Panel because we have a
double election here in California and I will be emanding
the Ada machines for that. You can find me Wednesday
on Rick and Already with you. And that's it for
(02:00:16):
the week. I'm gonna go be a longer now, all right, folks.
Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
Well as far as for me, you can find me
tomorrow night doing Kingdom and Country right here Livecale on
Radio ten pm Eastern back again Monday Night, America Off
the Rails ten pm Eastern. Tuesday through Friday. In the mornings,
starting at ten am, I do the Rick Robinson Show.
We also now do the Weekend News roundup at three
pm Eastern on Friday afternoons because we're actually starting to
(02:00:41):
expand the panel that appears there, And you can also
find me on Tuesday Night. I will in fact be
on the Manorama panel. I also for the moment am
the producer of that show, so I kind of have
to be there. So it'll be me and VC and
probably some other random Canadians and I'm gonna try to
see if I can wrangle Jeff back in sinzomishcamb there anyway,
So you thought you weren gonna have to work once
(02:01:02):
this week, I'm gonna try to fix.
Speaker 13 (02:01:03):
That for you.
Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:01:05):
You can also find me on X at Rodix seventy three.
You can follow along with everything we do here at
Kalan Radio on X, on YouTube, on Rumble, and on Facebook.
Want to give a quick shout out to the couple
of people that I've seen that have been watching on
Facebook and YouTube. Those are the two places we never
really seem to get any traction, so it's cool to
see people starting to pop in from over there. I
(02:01:26):
want to thank everybody who always checks us out on
x We've had some amazing numbers tonight. Last time I
looked at front ports for Indix Forensics, they were over
seven hundred. I think we're pretty close to seven hundred
right now on X alone. I haven't looked anywhere else yet,
and I think that's it. You can find me as
a contributor to twitchy dot com, Misfitspolitics dot com, and
The Lotsparty dot Com, and I also produce a Lots
(02:01:47):
of Party podcast which drops on Tuesdays. I want to
thank everybody for hanging out with us tonight. I want
to thank my usual co host cohort and partner and
crame on this one. You guys know him as the
Amish one. And uh, we're gonna get out of here.
You guys enjoy the rest of your Saturday night. Oh,
don't forget to set your clocks back to random levels
(02:02:09):
of seasonal depression.
Speaker 7 (02:02:10):
O damn it. Al Hydra, the Hailing of the Hydra.
We've had this discussion. Al Hydra coactimist.
Speaker 17 (02:02:24):
Annah call me
Speaker 2 (02:02:31):
Say good night Gracie
Hello friends, you have a moment so that we may
discuss our Lord and Savior minarchy. No, seriously, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Hi. My name is Rick Robinson.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am the general manager of Klrnradio dot com. We
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The following program contains course, language and adult themes. Listener
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Speaker 10 (02:46):
Creamnes site Government Shadow Secretstie conspiracies, unfull.
Speaker 11 (03:03):
Loo sleep Strange Encounters. I explain to this out that
really shame men went knowther voices fall unleveling history stories, untold.
Speaker 12 (03:20):
A real fifty one whisper name, beautiful side, Haunting, Fay love,
miss Monster, a lottering myth.
Speaker 11 (03:39):
I'm also want Injurious Kiff Strange Encounters. I explain to
this out that really Shade none went knowledge as voices,
all lovely mystery stories unsold.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
See takes out this not for substanding.
Speaker 13 (04:04):
Flights continual straight JNS, sun splay shoot this out that
lately Shade win losses ball mytory.
Speaker 14 (04:22):
Sorry sont truth this out.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
This and good evening, American Welcome into Juxtaposition. This is
our regularly scheduled night, but it's also the round up
(04:50):
and roundtable for our jux sober episodes for cryptids. So
welcome to crypto Zoology. One oh one, I will one
of your professors for the evening. The other who's joining
you right now, you know him, you love him. He's
our resident Amish and right now he's the only one
on screen with me, because I'm gonna start introducing everybody
else one by one here in just a moment, But
(05:12):
I want to give you a second to let everybody
know how you're doing before I start bringing everybody else on.
How's you house things?
Speaker 7 (05:17):
Yeah? Can you believe we made five for five?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You know, it's like a record for us. I don't
think we've ever officially done that without at least one
having to be a remaker escape, right.
Speaker 7 (05:27):
I mean, it's I keep saying, I've said this all
about this. I you know, I don't like to create
more around juxtaposition, but we finally have a topic where
we had hiccups, but we weren't completely fucking cursed well,
and we did witches. We didn't get half the episodes done.
I mean, we'd have equipment failure right before the show.
(05:49):
And you know it's those of you who have been
listening for a long time know that I'm not making
that up. It's so it's yeah, it's nice to you know,
we did the full circuit and I'm impressed.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
All right, So the topic for tonight is, of course cryptozoology.
Actually I was inspired by juxtaposition or non juxtavision, but
from Fort Forensics because I kind of sat it on
there and he started talking about wondering whether anybody does
any college level courses on demonology and demons studies. So
I looked and they did, and I'm like, wouldn't it
be cool if there was something like that for what
(06:23):
we do? So I made it so since most people
don't like to be on camera, this is what we're
going with for tonight. For those of you that are like,
I look weird, let me actually completely duplicate what you
actually look like anymore without yelling at me. So I
had to get as close as possible. So but yeah,
so this is the Juctober Cryptid Panel, and of course
(06:44):
it's not Duxtober anymore, but it's a day over, so
we will take that. So anyway, my name is Rick Robinson.
He is ordered to j Packard. We're going to start
introducing the rest of the panel and of course ladies first.
As far as the introduction, Miss Aggie, how are you?
Speaker 15 (07:01):
I am doing very well. Thank you. How's everyone doing what?
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I'm doing good? I'm doing good. I hadn't seen me
last night. My schedule has been thrown off all day.
But other than that, I'm doing good. I had all
kinds of plans for the day and then I wound
up staying up until like six in the morning, just
counting the thoughts on my ceiling.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Why am I not sleeping? And then I fell asleep
in it? That's no boy. Now you know I can't
even blame that being scared because we did ghost stories
last night. That wasn't it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I just couldn't sleep. I wish I could have at
least blamed that. That would have made sense, all right,
And next up, Next up on the hit parade, we
have our resident alien, otherwise known as the programming director
here at Kylon Radio dot com and uh general pain
in my ass.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
No, I'm kidding, HAJF. How you do by grap Thor's hammer?
What I'm here at Saturday?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
All right?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
We seem to be picking up.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Some echo from somewhere that I didn't have before, so
hopefully we can get that track down and h So,
next up, we have from shr Media, the one the
only conservative Sherpa otherwise known as Beezy or biff Zepp
depending on where you see it, Matt.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But how you doing, Sarah House? Things excellent?
Speaker 16 (08:18):
Thank you for inviting me here.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm glad to have you.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Then, of course, we also have from our Kaylin Radio family.
You may have heard him if you're if you're hanging
out from the last show, the one the Only the
Bumps doot Can who also is a huge fan of
cryptids and more specifically, I think and more specifically a
huge one of Bigfoot. But we'll definitely be getting into
that one tonight anyway.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
So how you doing tonight? Their house? Things?
Speaker 17 (08:41):
Oh, things are great here, and yes Bigfoot is a
brother of mine, so I'm partial.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Well, you know we've seen you on the hammers, so
it's not all high.
Speaker 17 (08:52):
I'm assuming that's me there by Jeff, and I have
to say I'm pro that. Look, I'm good. I may
let my hair grow back out.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah, that's about as close is like you'd get to
making one that kind of looked like you had kept
kicking you and BZ around into different places. So eventually
I just kind of gave.
Speaker 7 (09:06):
Up and what it was given me and then bearded
man and it pops up pretty close.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
All right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
So anyway, so I'm gonna turn now that we've done
in the introductions, found out how everybody is, I'm gonna
turn this part over to almost for a second while
I try to dial a couple of things in.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So take it away sir.
Speaker 10 (09:28):
Or not.
Speaker 7 (09:29):
I'm sorry, I was coughing. So as we've traveled through
this whole month, I know we all have our favorite
uh cryptids, but I wanted to take for a moment
and ask Aggie, you, from your background anthropology, what is
what is the important role of cryptids and you know,
just the basic myth behind them or the legends behind them.
(09:51):
You just give us a nutshell ten thousand foot view
if you could.
Speaker 15 (09:55):
Well, it's you know, it's a basic you know when
you use oncome sprace or most of these mythological features
actually have some kind of basis in some sort of founding,
as in like something did happen to foster the legend
(10:16):
in one way or another. For example, sometimes the whole
thing with the one from my neck of the woods,
It it just so happened that the creature that they
saw happened to have the same type of characteristics as
you know, a particular.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
K nine, and so.
Speaker 15 (10:41):
They just went with that and it grew from there
and it spread throughout Latin America. So now we have
this creature that has fostered a lot of myths, a
lot of fostered movies. With Eric Estrada, you know that
kind of thing. So most of the myths that we
see do have some grain of truth to them. It's
(11:03):
just that it has been overblown usually by third, third
hearsay or fourth hear say. You know, you don't how
remember how we played telephone and by the end it
wasn't anything near whatever it was at the beginning. That's
kind of the same way that these things actually progress.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
Yeah, so a lot of it too, I think, you know,
as we talked about it on the episode last week
when we were doing hominids, there's a bit of fossil
memory in us too, where we we remember that for
a while, we weren't the only hominids on the planet.
I mean, it's well known that we it co exists
at the same time as Neanderthal, and there were several
others around, you know, various parts of the world that
(11:52):
we have coexisted with over time. So it's kind of
like just it's you know, it's the other the ones
who weren't who's on the outside, on the other side
of the campfire ring.
Speaker 15 (12:04):
Yeah, and you know, there there are there are. There
is a school that says that a lot of these
things that we do see, like Bigfoot, could be a
remnant of a former hominid that evolved separate from you know,
Homo sapiens sapiens, So that is a possibility. I always
(12:25):
leave it open to the possibility of it, but that
is one way that it gets fostered.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
So so there you go. Mm hm, you're back.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Yeah, I'm back.
Speaker 7 (12:39):
Okay, all right, So do you want to lead us tonight?
Speaker 10 (12:43):
Right?
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Master?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I'm wait, I'm the ring master. I'm just I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Ready, So, I guess since Aggie was one of the
first ones to pipe up, we'll start with her. Of
all of the various crypt there out there, do you
have a specific favorite of your own?
Speaker 15 (13:04):
Well, I can tell you that the Tupacbra is not
my friend, so I'm not sure if most people listening
you know the tupacabra is actually a very new.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Just to make sure we're on the same page. So,
are you saying that chuop Ofcabra is your friend with benefits?
Speaker 12 (13:21):
No?
Speaker 15 (13:23):
No, I don't ever want to hear that again. Better enough,
I read a book about that crap.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I took it.
Speaker 12 (13:34):
No.
Speaker 15 (13:35):
No, the Cupicabo legend is actually pretty recent. There was
something that happened back in the nineteen seventies in Puerto Rico,
but it never took off, and the Tupacabra actually took
off for on nineteen ninety five in that time range,
so it's relatively recent. It's very very new, and because
(13:58):
it actually got false just as the Internet was being born,
it actually took off really really well, you know, whereas
you know, something like Bigfoot that had a word of mouth,
had a you know, that had to be fostered, you know,
by two cans and a string. So the Chupacabra has
(14:21):
established itself in a relatively short amount of time compared
to most of their cryptos. It's not my favorite because
it always kind of makes me not happy. As I
was telling you, I used to watch Unsolved Mysteries all
the time because Robert Stack was just absolutely adorable and
(14:42):
I just loved his voice and everything. That was the
one episode I never watched again ever.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
So no, I just don't.
Speaker 15 (14:53):
But I do like there is one in West Virginia
called the flat Woods Monster, and I always thought that
that one was kind of cute. Everybody knows Mothman, you know,
but the Flatwood Monster was kind of a CRYPTI that
was out there. It was more of a They thought
(15:14):
it was a metal type of monster or some kind
of machine or something to that effect. But I always
thought that that one was kind of cute.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
So I like that one, of course, like the cute
ones I do, and I got to.
Speaker 15 (15:31):
Give you know, Mothman was actually kind of cool too,
simply because I happened to like butterflies and moths, you know,
and everything. But but that one, it's like, yeah, you're
good looking, but just stay over there, you know, that
kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So just page you were talking about the one that
started having stories, talked about it sometime in September of
like the night of like nineteen fifty two. Because if
sod by the description, I don't find it cute show
I don't really know what the flat with moster.
Speaker 7 (16:03):
Yeah, it's wondering too.
Speaker 15 (16:07):
It's kind of creepy, but then you know, you step back,
it's kind of like a monet. So when you step
back it looks kind of cute, but when you're right there,
you're like, yeah, that's not very cute.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It's ten to twelve feet tall with a shaped head
and blowing red eyes. What about that is cute?
Speaker 15 (16:26):
Okay, So it has become a cute thing. And this
is this is something that happens when people revolve around
a particular myth and particular cryptis they actually adorify it.
They make it adorable. You've seen what they've done to sasquatch,
(16:47):
You've seen what they're don't to NeSSI, You've seen what
they've done to all of these where you have stuffed animals,
you have cute little cartoons you have, you know, they
cutify it and everything, and so when they fight the
Flatwood Monster, it actually looked kind of cute.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
So that's been in my head.
Speaker 7 (17:07):
It's been.
Speaker 15 (17:10):
But I always thought that it was kind of cool
because it had, you know it, there was no other
bases other than deciding and you know, a couple of
people talking about it, and it just spread like wildfire.
And then you know, some people started saying, well, that's
not what we saw or you know, for whatever reason.
(17:33):
But it actually took hold in that area so much
so I believe it or not, it actually became part
of you know, there's a lot of glass makers in
West Virginia. One of them is Blanco, and Blanco was
actually in the downturn it. They were about to close
(17:54):
up shop and they decided to actually make a decanter
called the Flatwood's Monster, and it was you know that
the candor to the bottom part was green and the
actual part on the top was red, you know, and
it had two little eyes and everything. And because it
was a limited addition, people just fell in love with
(18:17):
that thing and it sold out and then people started
noticing Blanko again, so it saved them from pretty much bankruptcy.
But now everybody loves this thing, and every so often
Blanco will actually put out something that has a Flatwood Monster.
And they're not the only ones that do it. A
lot of glass factories have their own little Flatwoods Monster
(18:40):
and it because it because it was made cute. See,
and this is this is a problem that cryptids have.
They want to be you know, mean and frightening, but
society eventually just messes it up for everybody because women
(19:00):
get involved and everything's made cute. Tell me I'm wrong.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
I mean, even if you were wrong, you never admitted.
Speaker 17 (19:14):
Can what she's talking about about the cutes making them cute?
Because uh, you know, Chappy, the American lockless you know, yeah,
they have a huge thing about these little plush's and
making on the sweatshirts and all these kinds of things,
(19:34):
and he's always here. Within the past few decades, I've
noticed very cartoony with the oversized eyes and.
Speaker 7 (19:43):
Very sweet looking, very cute.
Speaker 17 (19:45):
So I can see, uh, I can see what she's
talking about with the flat Woods monster. But I'm kind
of curious why why she doesn't like the chebocabre that's
why she's.
Speaker 7 (19:59):
Against it.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, well, she liked it, she liked it a little
more before the last book she read about it.
Speaker 15 (20:05):
Now I think I know the concept of the chupacabra,
how it grew from a mangi coyote into this being.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It it.
Speaker 15 (20:17):
Actually, I come from a very superstitious people, I really do.
I'm not as superstitious as some of my relatives in
Puerto Rico, but I mean my entire island dribes on
melodrama and superstition and telenovelas. So I get it from
somewhere right. And when this started happening, I mean, you
(20:40):
had people from the local news desks coming and interviewing
this woman. I kept saying that this is what she
saw and that it was a horrific thing and whatever.
Fast forward to unsolved mysteries and Unsolved Mysteries actually has
a mockup of the description that she had get the
(21:02):
first description that was given to the press. It was horrifying.
This thing had like fangs and blood red eyes, and
it had it was hunched over, and it had spines
down its back and the claws and all that stuff,
and it was just it was it was really ugly,
(21:23):
and it was really it was. It was creepy. And
it did not help that the lights were off when
I was watching this, but that made it, you know,
that made a very big impression on me. So I've
always had a Yeah, no, I've actually gotten a little
better because again they have made it cute. You go
(21:46):
into the store and you find chupacabra seasoning. I don't
know if they carry it throughout the States, but I
know they carry it here in Texas at AGB specifically,
and the little chupacabra is really cute. It's an adorable
little mascot that they have. So again, probably a woman
got involved and this is why. But when it first
(22:08):
came out, it was actually a very horrifying rendition of
the description first given to the press by that by
the woman that claimed she had seen it. And after
that it just everybody else's renditions kept getting I mean
almost to the point of it was a xenomorph. That's
(22:28):
how bad some of the renditions were. So it was
kind of creepy. I'm like, I'd rather take my chances
with a Yetti or you know, sasquatch, bigfoot, whatever you
want to call him, but not the chup of Cabra.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Sorry, I've realized I was still muted. I think I
have it narrowed down. I shot a message to the
person who I think it may be, and I think
it's just headphone leads back happening from time to time
because I kept watching to see who was randomly lighting
up when Aggie was talking. All right, so let's go
ahead and take the first break to try to get
this dialed in a little bit better. And then when
we come back, I'm gonna see if Almosh has a
(23:14):
favorite one, because I know for most of the rest
of the panel, besides maybe the alien, I know who
their favorite is going to be. Probably, so we'll save
that one for later. But as we often do here,
thanks to our resident alien Jeff, we do have a
new musical composition for the evening and We're going to
go to break while we play that for you guys. Now,
I don't give Al much time to make sure his
(23:34):
tea and all that stuff is set up properly, and
we'll get the echo dialed in a little bit more
and then we'll.
Speaker 7 (23:40):
Be right back.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So hang out and check this out from Jeff. It's
a long one, but I'm gonna play the whole thing
just because I haven't even gotten to listen to it yet.
I was too busy working on other stuff.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So here we go.
Speaker 14 (24:29):
You may have been married.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
Where as the dog got man.
Speaker 14 (25:15):
Breathing the water side the water.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
So we cry.
Speaker 14 (25:28):
Something and cried. We see the guy, We said, alive alive.
Time the oil mar Hi faced the dog and stole.
(25:53):
It's like we play.
Speaker 13 (25:54):
We burned, We laid it out.
Speaker 14 (26:12):
All see.
Speaker 15 (26:14):
Shadow swish.
Speaker 10 (26:23):
Do remember each step.
Speaker 14 (26:26):
We may step. We made voices called from the hollow brown.
We followed the south and we served around.
Speaker 13 (26:45):
To die.
Speaker 14 (26:49):
We survive by byelay out of lie, remaining jo something more.
When we made it its side in old guy, the
(27:12):
dog breached out.
Speaker 11 (27:13):
We cut that time, we roll, we bought, We made.
Speaker 13 (27:17):
A live live live.
Speaker 14 (27:24):
Do you feel that true?
Speaker 5 (27:27):
True it's still the waiting, waiting, wait.
Speaker 14 (27:38):
No name, So it's us. We may raise the money
(29:28):
by the night night. Don't want you want to reframe.
Speaker 13 (29:36):
We said, hey, we want the five.
Speaker 14 (29:38):
We made it out. It's so.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Giving yourself a round of applause was a nice touch,
but it is earned. So welcome back into the program,
ladies and gentlemen. We are having a discussion in the
behind the scenes room while that was playing, and I
guess the amish one has deferred his turn to the
alien one.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
So Jeff.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
First of all, you are killing it with the music, sir,
So thank you for all the work you put into
that for this month, because that's been absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Dude.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I have to admit you've caused me to up my
game a little bit on the music production side, so
I'm actually learning how to do some of that stuff.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I'm still not anywhere as cool as you are at
it yet, but I'm getting better. So getting better, yes,
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Anyway, So as aside from that, so of course, the
panel for ton Itises To of course discussed cryptids and
so one of the first things I wanted to do
before because I know a big chunk of the show
is probably gonna get eaten up by Bigfoot because that
that seems to be a lot of folks favorite. But
I wanted to see if you had any other specific
favorites before we get into that one. I have now
(31:37):
remember yours are restricted to Earth Earthling cryptids.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
For for the show purpose, I decided to pick the
third planet from the Sun. I ended up doing a
four page I don't want to call it a scientific document,
but a four page proof that not only does this
(32:02):
creature exist, but scientifically could and that is champ.
Speaker 9 (32:12):
Now.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
I know everyone thought would maybe nassier chance, but there
are some interesting things here about champ that unless you
live in Vermont like I do, you don't pick up
on a handful of things. Champagne is not your average
New England lake. It's one hundred and twenty five miles long,
(32:33):
it can get over four hundred feet in spots. It
stretches between New York and Vermont and kick where you know,
so it has a wide gap. Not only that, but
when you actually sit outside of Lake Champlaine, and it
doesn't matter which side, it actually does feel more oceanic
than it does lake And it's interesting to note that
(32:59):
the last ice a this entire region was part of
what was called Champlain Sea, a saltwater arm of the Atlantic.
Now what is really fascinating to me is looking at
the fossil record of Vermont, because in eighteen forty nine,
railroad workers of all things, in Charlotte, Vermont, twenty miles
(33:22):
inland of the lake, dug up the remains of a
beluga whale in a farmer's field. Now that skeleton is
still on display at the University of Vermont's museum. So
there be whales here, Captain. So it kind of proves
that the DNA of Lake Champlain's ecosystem could and can
(33:46):
be oceanic, depending on where you're at. It's deep, it's cold,
it's oxygen wreck it's connected to the sea through the
Richelo River up in Quebec. So from an evolutionary standpoint,
it's kind of a perfect place for something marine to
get trapped, adapt and hang around long enough after its
cousins kind of went back into the salt water. Why
(34:09):
do you keep trying to talk like like you're from
the Syropine Union Iron You have to put up with
that on Tuesday nights.
Speaker 7 (34:14):
That's Okay, he's doing it.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's key deck because I'm making fun of them.
Speaker 17 (34:22):
Now.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
One of the things I love about this story is,
with a lot of things that you guys covered in jocks,
the locals were talking about something in this lake long
before what anything showed up in sonar. The Ibanaki called
it tatasakalk, and the story has described the creature that
rolled like logs and breeze like a deer. I'm sorry,
(34:44):
you can't classify that a dragon. That's kind of a
more of you know, a surface animal. Then, of all people,
Samuel Day Champlain wrote in sixteen o nine about a
serpent like fish twenty feet long and thick as a cask.
So you have some historians talking that up to an
over excited sturgeon. But really, really, that's what you're going
(35:07):
to explain it as. And then of course Sandra Mancy's
photo in nineteen seventy seven, the big One.
Speaker 17 (35:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Honestly, no one really has just proven yet, so you
have enough historical basis to go, okay, this is possible.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Well, now we.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Delve into the science of champ a little bit. Thir
In the eighties, doctor Philip Rains at the University of
Vermont ran sonar surveys and recorded large, single moving targets
and depths between one hundred and twenty and one hundred
and eighty feet. We're talking about fifteen to twenty foot
returns moving at approximately three knots. Not a school of fish,
(35:46):
not a submerged log drifting with the current. In two
thousand and three, doctor Bruce Wright, a marine biologist formerly
with I know this probably discredits him a little bit,
but formally with a LED a new sonar and thermal
imaging expedition was a Discovery channel searching for Champ. Episode
(36:08):
and his team found heat signatures moving independently in the
frigid low layers of the lake, So in forty degree water,
the only things producing self generated warmth are either engines
or living organisms. As a side note, it should be
noted the Weirdo's in Vermont, which I am unfortunately a
(36:29):
member of for nineteen years, the government actually passed the
resolution in nineteen eighty three protecting Champ from harm or harassment,
which actually makes it harder for people to find out
if Champ actually exists, So they kind of created a
self defeating hurdle or protection. If you will. Now, of
(36:53):
course this leads to biology questions. We're gonna play a
little bit of taxonomy game. You have creatures like a
giant eel hypothesis. The American eel already lives here. It
can grow up to six feet maybe more, and technically
it can hibernate in mud for years, literally shut itself down.
(37:13):
So that's possible, but you're really only looking at six
to eight feet here. You have the fresh water seal theory.
We have landlocked seals in key Deck Flachs de Marine,
a remnant group from the ice age Champlain Sea. New
creatures adapted the fresh water and decided to stick around.
You have that lineage, a few thousand years of evolution,
(37:35):
and you have another possible pipeline of possibility. And of
course everyone's favorite but most unlikely, is the Pleosaurus holdover
that somehow it's just a dinosaur that never died or
or just adapted. But the problem we come with Champ
is the lack of sightings. Now, I re search this
(38:00):
a lot for this show tonight, and one thing I
one thing I had trouble finding was anyone who ever
associated long term metabolic shot shut down with these creatures.
We have the African lungfish, who can survive years in
dry mud cocoons waiting for rain. We have the Greenland
shark that lives four hundred years and barely ever moves.
(38:23):
You have lake sturgeon that can sit motionless days regulating.
Speaker 7 (38:26):
Oxygen and move with no effort.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
So now let's build this alt to a creature who
has adapted to this environment. This could actually explain why
some sightings comes in burst separated by years and or decades.
It's not magic.
Speaker 7 (38:41):
It's just a.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Reformed, refined form of hibernation, and oddly it does fit
the timeline. Sightings spike during warm years when algae blooms
increase fish population. If you will, a biological alarm clock
(39:03):
saying hey, dinner is ready, come and get it. Of course,
this leads to why haven't we found it? If there's real,
why aren't there any bones being found? Okay, unless you
live here and have spent time on Lake Champlain, you
have no idea what this lake does the things If
(39:23):
you drop a tree limbon, you will never find it
within a year, and by two years it's mush. The
lake is actually a cidic. It is very low lit
and it's really full of scavengers, which if you've seen
some of the scavengers are kind of creepy as hell.
Even the larger fish skeletons vanish quickly, and I mean
(39:46):
very quickly. So something dies down in the trenches, it
will get eaten, dissolved, and compacted into the cell before
you even find any hint that it ever existed, So
you have to or the what if factor of this.
If it is some descendant of a Champlaine sea creature
(40:07):
that got trapped, it necessarily isn't monstrous, which is why
I think it was Ken that was mentioning earlier the
flair to make it more friendly. A lot of people
in the scientific field in Vermont have deemed it not monstrous,
that it is just simply a varied version of a
sea form, so much so that the Vermont Lake Monsters
(40:31):
baseball team has it as their mascot. It is believed
to be, with the latest findings to be twelve to
twenty feet in long, a little more eel like, with
a little bit of seal head formation. It is believed
to be a combination air breathing and lake breathing, slow
(40:51):
and rarely surfaces. It shouldn't need to eat often. It's
cold blooded and deep watered metabolism actually makes that even easy.
So between Burlington and poort Henry, which is the one
of the largest areas that it has the most sightings,
(41:11):
it is fascinating to see what can happen at that
sea during the summer, of the winter and all the
all the seasons. And it leads me to think, Okay,
I am a scientific mindset, I have to look at
this scientifically. There is evidence that this lake once held
(41:36):
creatures as large as whales. It has produced sonar the
target size of a truck, it yields the occasional mysterious photo,
and it is technically deep enough, cold enough and geologically
old enough to host something that we just haven't caught yet.
So do I believe there's room and lake Lake Champlaine
(41:58):
for a mystery with fins? Yes, yes I do. I'm
not saying champ actually exist, but I can find no
scientific reasoning that it doesn't exist. And there have been
mornings that I've sat out in the Lake Champlain where
(42:18):
the fall girls off the water. I look out and
I do think maybe today will be the day I
get to see it. It's not all I hope to
see it, but just maybe maybe today, I just want
that little bit of glimpse of continued hope that we
know so little about this planet that something the size
of champ could actually still exist. And part of me
(42:41):
also hopes we never find out if it is real
or not, because the myth and the lord built around
is just so tremendous.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, I can definitely see that. I'm kind of I'm
kind of that way too. I kind of like the
mystery more than more than the certainty. So I kind
of like things being to to the point where they
can't be proven, but they can't really be disproven either. Yeah,
And that's in my whole My whole goal in the
last two weeks for this has been trying to scientifically
debunk this possibly happening.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
I could not.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, I mean you know that that says a lot,
especially for you know, some dude with a you know,
alien physics degree. All right, So Amish as we as
we keep moving along here, how about you, do you
have any specific favorite or favorites that you wanted to
talk about tonight.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
Well, I got a new favorite, and that's I do that.
You know, Beasy and Ken, we're probably gonna be doing
Bigfoot and being a resident in the Sierra Nevadas. It's like,
you know, I may interject to reinforce some points on that,
but one that's really speaking to me now, one that
I'm really coalescing my brain around is we talked about
it last last week, and you know, it's part of
(44:03):
the broader topic. How after we did our quantum mechanics show,
how that seems like some tumblers are, you know, clicking
into place on some things. And it made me re
evaluate the metacryptis of the internet, you know, and as
tulpu's And if you don't know what a tulpa is,
it's a tibit. It's a thought manifestation in Tibetan mysticism,
(44:24):
where an entity is birthed through intense concentration until it
becomes autonomous. It's they use it as a spiritual exercise
of a tested discipline, but in the digital area, it's
become an accidental experiment in applied consciousness physics. Now, so
I okay with quantum mechanics, as we talked about, is
(44:45):
that the future informs the past as much as the
past informs the future. And in quantum mechanics, observation creates
in the most thumbnail sketch, observation creates reality, where you know,
a particle is in a wave form until it's observed
and then it coalesces into the reality. Now this was
previously tested before we even really understood quantum mechanics. There
(45:10):
was a study done in Canada in nineteen seventy two
where researchers invented a fictional ghost named Philip, and they
held seances to contact them. Philip answered tables, shook, and
the group in the seance the mass hallucination became measurable
and you know, science called it the ideal motor effect.
(45:34):
But the entity, through though invented, behaved as if it
was aware. So again this is tying the consciousness to
the quantum field. By running this experiment, they appear to
have created the ghost Philip. So you flash forward to
now you have a seance on a planetary scale where
(45:56):
you something like you know, the picture of man. You
know that was invented in two thousand and nine on
the on the Something Awful forums, And it wasn't like
a new thing. It had been a traditional arc type,
the tall, lanky dark man at the edge of the woods.
You know, the Germans called him, uh I'm probably gonna
(46:17):
butchert this uh der grobman who would steal children away.
And you know, and we've had this in other topics.
We've discussed with shadow people, where you know, one of
the theories is that they're tulpas they've been invented by
the person experiencing the stress. So what happened at that
(46:38):
moment is when those two pictures, those two photoshops that
created Slenderman hit the Internet, it's like it collapsed the
arc type into one thing and then all of a sudden,
it just went back through history. It's like it was
it may have been invented at that moment, but then
it was thrown back in history because it hit every
key of every culture that had the tall, dark figure
(47:02):
in the woods. And you know, we reinvented in the
nineties with the hat man at the end of the bed.
So you know, while the Internet didn't invent these things,
it's kind of like maybe it did. And then you know,
it didn't invent the archetype, but it invented the persona
that seated itself back through history. Another one of these
(47:25):
is the you know, it's okay. There's a creepy pasta
on the internet now that's called the back Rooms. And
but before there was the back Rooms, there was the
elevator game. And Ken I know you and you guys
talked about this on front Porch Forensics with the case
of Alisa Lamb in the elevator at the UH should
(47:50):
I drew John a blank in the name of the
hotel in Los Angeles where there was a forum game,
a game popular in Korean and Japanese forums where you
board an elevator alone, and part of the ritual was
you would go to floor two, you'd press the buttons
for four, two, four, six, two, ten, and five, and
(48:10):
when you hit the fifth floor, if a woman got
on the elevator, you weren't supposed to speak to her
or look at her, and you were to ride the
elevator back to the ten flour. You'd be able to
go into another dimension, but you'd be able to get
back out. If you spoke to her, you were doomed
to that dimension until they kicked you out the way
that she was found in the water tower dead several
(48:30):
weeks later. This when again flash forward into the back Rooms,
which is just as created by again the Internet, just
this yellow static, faded yellow, kind of like endless office space,
and that's taken on a life of its own two
to be populated with center bite things like from the
(48:51):
Hell Raiser or you know, kind of like the uh,
the Purgatory and Beetlejuice. But that's taken it on to
where people are now talking about they remember having dreams
about that or escaping that long before it ever hit
the Internet. And yeah, I know a lot of people
make a lot of shit up online and you just
go online and tell lies no way. But it's the
(49:13):
fact that it's just happening. It's not in a condensed spot,
you know. It's like on one like right on board,
someone will talk about this dream they remember having as
a kid, and then someone else will connect it over
to the back rooms and say, hey, you know, these
things are cross pollinying and all of this on the
quantum mechountic level, you know, on the quantum scale where
we're creating these space, these liminal spaces just by you know,
(49:39):
like I mentioned before, it's a seance of billions of
people on the Internet getting hooked on their creepypasta and
spreading the memes and everything. This also goes back with
the moth man, the blackbirdis chernobyl, and the O'Hair winged humanoid,
where you know, entities appearing at these sites of psychic
or physical pressure. In a classic timeline, they become omens,
(50:03):
but in the quantum one there are also side effects
where they've now the pressure has created the omen back
in time. So all of the sightings of these things
before the trauma, they became the warning. So it's kind
of like that which came first chicken or the egg
(50:25):
kind of thing. So completely by accident, quantum physics has
joined us at the campfire with these stories. And that's
really what is bending my brain right now on cryptids,
and I'm really starting to embrace that that meant that
whole melieu as it were, you know, as we used
(50:46):
to make the monsters to teach a lesson, and now
we're making them because we're bored, and they have the
same effect in some cases more cecil hotel, thanks Biff.
So all right, yeah, that's where I'm going tonight.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Nice all right, So, like I said, I think most
of the next hour is gonna get chewed up by Bigfoot.
But when we bring the other guys in more officially,
I'll see if they have any others they want to
touch on first, but to round out this part of
the program, the one that I wanted to talk about.
Then it's kind of a I think we've talked about
it before, but I've never really done that deep of
a dive on it before either.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
The fres No Nightcrawler.
Speaker 7 (51:30):
We touched on that years ago as in a side
when we've did. We did a Crypti show years ago
and we just kind of yeah, that one. I was
actually now that you mentioned it, So why did I
take that one? I'm in California. I'm glad I didn't.
I would have soln your answer.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Eh, I would have just typed in Oklahoma. Group did
real quick and found something else to talk about.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
No big deal.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
But yeah, So as far as this thing, and the
reason it was interesting to me is because I still
think it may have I still think our resident Alien
may have.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
Been out spreading his seat. No comment, I'm just saying so.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Its appearance is described as pale or white humanoid with
extremely long legs, very small upper torso, and often no
visible arms. Many accounts say it looks like a pair
of walk like a set of walking pants, was first
documented by close circuit security footage in two thousand and
seven in the city of Fresno. Because of the odd
form and few sidings, it has a unique place of encryptids.
(52:25):
It's not a giant ape, not a sea monster, but
some form of strange, leggy humanoid. So the original sightings
and evidence started showing up in two thousand and seven.
The man, often referred to as Jose the Hilopinio on
a stick I'm just getting had cameras set up to
monitor his dogs they were barking at night. According to reports,
(52:47):
the footage didn't show a typical animal or intruder, instead
something pale and leggy gliding across his yard.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
You had me at leggy, but just saying.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
The creature appears to walk from frame to frame, with
its entire height dominant by its legs and a minimal
upper body. The original CCTV footage has reportedly been lost.
What circulates is a grainy monitor capture version instead. It
was also spotted in Yosemite Lakes Park, California, in twenty eleven.
(53:16):
There have been other reports ever since, off and on
over the years. Some reports claimed sightings or footage in
other places like Poland, Montana and creatures resembling this but
kind of more kind of having a night coraler's look
as well. So it does have again very specific characteristics
(53:37):
and behavior. Pale white, extremely long legs, relative, relatively small torso,
no upper arms or upper body. It all ever been
seen in detail, often described as gliding or walking forward,
sometimes with a slight sway. Because of the odd proportions,
the gate appears really really unnatural. In the original two
(53:59):
thousand and seven c there were total of two figures
up here, one following the other. Many reports say they
are often seen in pairs behavior. There is no known
aggression to have been reported, no definitive interaction with humans,
more observation than attack. So so this this one's not
really in the vein of a scary cryptid, but more
(54:20):
of just what the heck did I just seep crypted
from the people that have actually managed to get a
look at the thing, So I don't know that that
one kind of caught my attention, So.
Speaker 7 (54:36):
Yeah, I like that one. I remember when we did
it too, we had the it was before we were
able to do video, because there are video clips of
it out there too, but we were doing the stills
of it just creepy.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yeah, I just thought of that almish. I didn't load
it though, I have to find it. Well, we'll add
it in the next hour. But anyway, all right, so
we've got a few minutes left, so I guess, since,
like I said, I think a lot of the next
hour is going to be chewed up by Bigfoot, I'm
going to start with Beezy first. Other than Bigfoot. Do
(55:09):
you have any other favorites that you want to mention tonight, sir?
Speaker 16 (55:13):
Well, no, my my shin dig is is Bigfoot. But
I became interested in that in nineteen sixty one, which
is weird because I read a big book by Ivan D. Sanderson.
So I'll defer until the next hour, thank you, sir.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Okay, just wanted to make sure and uh and I
know for Ken that's kind of usually the one you
want to stick with too, but I didn't know if
maybe you had a lesser known one that you wanted
to talk about in hour one.
Speaker 17 (55:38):
We could talk about the the not deer, you know,
the knot animals of the Applasian Mountains.
Speaker 7 (55:44):
I doo if y'all want sure.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
I mean, we got a few minutes, just go and
lay it onnest real quick.
Speaker 4 (55:50):
The the knot.
Speaker 17 (55:54):
Most commonly it's called a knot deer nt deer, you know,
but there's other versions of animals that are called knots,
and there's a knot horse, a not a dog, not wolf,
sometimes not owl. Basically, what it is is it's a
(56:14):
creature that just is not right, and it shows itself
to be.
Speaker 4 (56:22):
Kind of normal.
Speaker 17 (56:27):
As a showing a like that first glance, you think
it's a normal creature, right, But on closer inspection you
start noticing things are off. The body shape is a
slightly longer than it should be, or perhaps the legs
are a little more longer than what.
Speaker 7 (56:49):
Would be normal.
Speaker 17 (56:52):
You have the eye instead of being on the side
of the head like a normal deer, like a preyer,
a prey animal would be. They're forward facing, like a predator.
Speaker 4 (57:06):
And they are.
Speaker 7 (57:12):
Said to.
Speaker 17 (57:14):
Show no fear or unnatural curiosity toward people. Whereas most
animals would run away from you, these will actually come
up and investigate, and basically they just act unnaturally toward you.
Now the Internet, we'll say that the not deer is
(57:39):
created from twenty fourteen from like a creepy pasta. I
think that's what it comes from. It's what they say,
and that's where it officially gets its or you know,
it's the origin story.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
It said.
Speaker 17 (57:55):
It was birthed on the Internet in twenty fourteen. It
was from a Tumblr post by user will of the
Witch and described it as an appellation folk cryptid, and
the tumblr poster says that after hearing whispers from the
(58:19):
locals of the applation areas is what made him share
the story. But there's no internet mention of a knot
there or an animal before twenty fourteen. And I remember
when that all come out, people was like, well, that's
just that's just a story made online, there's nothing to
(58:42):
it and all that. But you know, I grew up here.
I remember vividly as a child being told about the knots. Again,
the knots were common Boogeyman top legend, and the knot
there was the most because we are covered up with
(59:03):
deer around here, you know, so we would see the
not deer most commonly. I've never had a verifiable like sighting,
but I have, you know, growing up in the woods
to spend a lot of times. They have been some
moments that animals haven't acted right or acted like the
norm and a lot of people say, well, maybe it's
(59:24):
got rab's or it's got some sort of wasting disease
or something along those lines to cause them to act abnormally.
And sure, you can write it off like that, but
there's something about the knots that I always appreciated because
of the I guess it's strictly a Appalachian mountain range
(59:49):
top floor or history. And again, growing up in these mountains,
we lived all those stories and all those moments and
all those cryptids. So to me, I don't count anything out,
you know, And the knot deer has always been one
(01:00:11):
fuhne to me, I said, it's been described as standard
size of a deer may be a little more slender,
but the hip alignment, the spine alignment, the angle of
the knees and the feet, things like that are always
just a little bit off. But the way that it moves,
(01:00:34):
and especially things that it eats. A knot animal has
different teeth. They're more predatory and they will eat meat
when normally an animal woodn't. No rabbits or the deer
things like that not known as meat eaters per se,
but a not animal is and they can be dangerous
(01:00:57):
to a human. There's no there's not many record recorded
events of one being somebody being attacked by one. So
much is just being stalked and otherwise scared, and a
feeling of dread and even sickness comes over you when
you're around them. But I don't seem to be overly
(01:01:17):
violent or anything like that. But like I said, the
Knots to me, are one that's I've always been interested in.
I've always kind of really locked that's local, kind of
regional to me. And it's not just the Bigfoot one,
which is you know, the number one guy, and I
love him, that's my favorite. But I figured tonight I
(01:01:39):
would just bring up the Knots as something that's local
to me, in regional to my area, and I always
thought it was really interested.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Yeah, no, I have to admit, I know I've heard
of them before, but it's not one that usually steys
on our radar. And half the time, any time anybody
starts saying knots, only here is Knox, which is a
reference to a Stargate career set of characters.
Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
So go ahead and drink now, all.
Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Right, So I think we're gonna get things Reseid for
hour two. We're just about background on the top of
the hour, and I for when I'm out of drink,
so we're gonna have to go fix that. I want
to give a quick shout out and an apology to
the person that's hanging out on the Facebook chat.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
It's not that we don't monitor the chats.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
It's just that we're usually hanging out in the x
chat because that's where we get most of our people.
But I do want to give a quick shout out
to Aaron Ally and thank you for checking us out
on the Facebook feed.
Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
And we will be back continuing.
Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Discussion that too.
Speaker 7 (01:02:31):
I don't know if they can see the that we
do have a chat scroll in the main chat where
people from the different feeds can't interact with each other.
I don't know if they if that goes through to
Facebook or not.
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
So uh, it does on the video side, but you
got to be unless you think it full screen, it's
really hard to see what it's.
Speaker 7 (01:02:49):
What's there, all right?
Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
But anyway, all right, we're gonna take a break. We'll
be right back. My name is Rick Robinson.
Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
He is Ordinance J. Packard.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
You are listening to Juxtaposition as we finish our first
ever fully successful we managed to do every single episode
of it j O Oxtober. So we are gonna move.
We're gonna be back here in just a moment. I
really well, I guess I was gonna say I didn't
do a special intro this year, but Jeff made a
lot of special music, so I guess it didn't really matter.
(01:03:20):
I just realized that I did because normally I'll make an.
Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Intro for these and I didn't do it this year.
All right, we'll be right back, Stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
It's because Jeff was making much better music anyways. All right, folks,
we'll be right back, stay tuned. Hello, friends, you have
(01:03:51):
a moment so that we may discuss our Lord and
Savior Minichy. No, seriously, I'm just kidding.
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Hi.
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Follow the Lost wander wherever you get your podcasts, and
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The following program contains course language and adult themes. Listenery
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Speaker 14 (01:07:12):
Dream Man test.
Speaker 12 (01:07:18):
Read full name, out of side.
Speaker 10 (01:07:24):
Government, shadows, Secretstie, conspiracies on full welse.
Speaker 11 (01:07:31):
Straight incount science, flame to this out that fly, shame man,
my mother's voices, ball level history stories untold Area fifty
one the.
Speaker 12 (01:07:49):
Whisper name, Beautiful, sighting, spunting, flame, loveness, monster a watering.
Speaker 11 (01:08:02):
Myst's logy injurious Kiff, strage, encounter Sun. Explain to the
south the bray change men with knowledge, voices, fall.
Speaker 19 (01:08:18):
Of raveling, mystery stories unfold, She takes out, believes your
for answers getting into the firelight. So logic things such
continuous strage, encounter Sun explain to this out there bravely
(01:08:43):
change men would knowledge, faces, fall, love, noveling, history stories untold,
through the out better, through theself better.
Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
And welcome back into our two of our roundtable with cryptids.
And yes, Danny, you sounded better, So sorry I didn't.
I was in the middle of talking and figured that
would be easier than just trying to type it. But yeah,
I think we got the echo problem dialed in. At
least it didn't sound as bad in the second half anyway, So.
Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
We are back, We are live.
Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
This is our two of our Cryptosiology panel, and I,
like I said, I think a lot of this hour
will be chewed up by Bigfoot. So I think since
Bez hasn't had much of an opportunity to talk, why
don't you let us know how you got into this
whole Bigfoot thing and all that fun stuff. Since I
know it's been a minute since you've done one of
these shows with us, so since our audience has grown,
(01:09:56):
why don't we start there for you?
Speaker 16 (01:09:58):
Well, I have a lovely show. I'm very conservative. I'm
a conservative, sirpa. It's on Tuesday and Thursday nights, and
that's about all you need to know about me. I'm
slightly to the right. I think of Vlad Tepish, So
that will give you a great indicator as to my
political aims in terms of Bigfoot. Do you want me
to start there or shall I defer to someone else first?
Speaker 14 (01:10:20):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
No, Let's go ahead and start with you, because you've
been one of the quietest on the panels so far tonight,
so let me give you a chance to talk, sir.
Speaker 16 (01:10:28):
My interest came back when I was about eleven or twelve,
when Ivan T. Sanderson published a book in nineteen sixty
one called abominable snowman legend come to life, and it
was about They didn't call them cryptids, they called them
(01:10:49):
hominids at the time. And as a young boy, I
ate that up to the point where I went out
and bought my actual copy of this. I still have
my original first to day of that, and I just
ate it up. And then I also lived in this
Sierra Nevada mountains for twenty eight years at about the
four thousand foot level, where I would customarily get anywhere
from two to eight feet of snow every winter. So
(01:11:12):
having moved to North Idaho, people think that it's snowy here.
You Mores don't know what snow is anyway, having said.
Speaker 7 (01:11:20):
No idea, what sierra's cement is, Yeah.
Speaker 16 (01:11:22):
And sierra cement when you have to shovel, it is
just exactly that extremely high water content, not puffine fluffy anyway.
Moving on, I tend to look at Bigfoot, and that's
where I have sort of a focus, if you will,
from a scientific perspective. And I think one of the
(01:11:43):
people who was a great proponent of us sadly passed
away on September eleventh at the age of sixty seven,
and that was doctor Jeff Meldrum, and he approached bigfoot sasquatch,
cryptids of that ilk from a scientific fashion and what
(01:12:04):
he did. He was a professor, an American anthropologist and
an academic. He was a full professor of anatomy and
anthropology in the Department of Biological Sciences at Idaho State
University down quite a distance from me in South Idaho.
(01:12:24):
I was lucky enough to go to see him this
past May with myself and missus be Z. One of
the kindest, nicest, most generous individuals you will ever meet.
And if you ever see a show on TV and
they talk about bigfoot, invariably they'll defer and say something
(01:12:47):
like and doctor Jeff Mildrum, would you weigh in on that?
And that was the guy that they went to. If
you ever saw a photograph of the guy, you'd go, oh, yeah,
I've seen him before. Anyway, we went to go meet
him and he gave an incredible roughly two hour lecture.
I can't say lecture. It was a presentation of just
(01:13:08):
an analysis of the nineteen sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film
where people say, oh, that's just crap, that's that's a
bunch of crap. This is there guys insuits, and here's
what I took away. I wish everyone, I wish I
could have taken a video, but I was disallowed of
(01:13:30):
that presentation. I can guarant damn to you that if
anyone and everyone here were present in that presentation, you
would come to the conclusion that there is no other
conclusion to draw. But nineteen sixty seven in the Patterson
Gimlin film in Northern California.
Speaker 7 (01:13:46):
Always fell over the gay.
Speaker 16 (01:13:48):
That was a Bigfoot. And let's go back to nineteen
sixty seven because I always like to make this analysis.
Anybody remember two thousand and one Space Odyssey. That was
British director Stanley Kubrick. He released his film in nineteen
sixty eight, was filming it in nineteen sixty seven, and
(01:14:10):
if you remember, it was a Dawn of Man sequence
that was filmed on a British MGM soundstage and what
happened is extra chrome transparencies because that was as good
as the tech got at the day of Africa were
projected from behind and then that was by a dude
(01:14:31):
named named Douglas Trumbull, and then mimes were hired to
play the apes. So if you ever remember the Dawn
of Man ape scene from two thousand and one A
Space Odyssey, that was the state of the art then
now then as opposed to now. If you watch that scene,
(01:14:53):
the first thing you think is guys in suits. But
at the time, out of a ten million dollar film,
Stanley Kubrick spent over one point seven million dollars just
to try to get what he considered to be the
apes right. There's a dude that he got named Dan
Richter who was very thin, and got him to play
the primary ape on that. The costumes were designed by
(01:15:17):
a guy named Stuart Freeborn, and that was honestly the
state of the art art in ape movements. And they
were all special effects professionals, they were all suit creators.
They were all there in film that was as good
as it got, that was the best available for their time.
And like I said, you look at that now, the
(01:15:39):
first thing that you're going to say is that's stupid.
That was the best that anybody could do. At the
end of this, if you were to go and watch,
if you would have attended anyone of the presentations with
doctor Eldram made with regard to just that film, just
the Patterson Gimlin film, you would come back convinced of that.
(01:16:03):
And he approached it in truly and only a scientific
fashion in terms of, well, he was an anthropologist, he
was a physiologist, he studied, he was a doctor of anatomy,
Man eight, etc. And with that background, he went into
(01:16:27):
the film essentially framed by frame by frame. One of
the biggest two things that I took away from that
presentation that he made is that, yep, that's a sasquatch.
And the other thing that I took away from that was, yes,
you can't manufacture that in any other way. And there
(01:16:50):
are six reasons that people customarily say in terms of
linkage to the Patterson Gimlin film in nineteen sixty seven.
The first thing is they're talking about the and this
is what doctor milnerm hit on the biomechanics and the
gait of the creature in the film. And so, like
I said, Meldrum is an anthropologist, he's a primate expert.
(01:17:13):
He knows his stuff about orthopedics. He talked about bentony propulsion.
He said it would be absolutely, very very very difficult
for a man in a suit to try to demonstrate
that it's more natural for non human primates to show
(01:17:35):
that and in the film what you see if you
look at it, because there are all sorts of videos
that you can see on YouTube, if the best video
to see is the one that which creates it, I
can't think of the word. It creates a motionless view
of the film. That is to say, what's the word
(01:17:57):
I'm looking for? Stabilized. It's a statelized view of the film,
and it's not nearly as wonky as the original eight
millimeter film. If you look at that one, you can
see and come to the conclusion. I believe that you
look at you look at the muscles, you look at
the musculature, you look at the length of the arms,
You look at the head and the style of the head,
(01:18:22):
and the fact that it appears to be a female,
and the fact that it actually has breasts and it
continues to walk. It's the movement beneath the skin of
the creature that to me lends veracity to this thing.
(01:18:42):
You can see the flexing of the calf muscles, you
can see thigh muscles, you can see the glutes, you
can see the back musculature. So once we got the
technology to the point where we could stabilize and in hants.
Then you can see past that low frame rate in
(01:19:04):
the resolution of the thing that the body proportions of
the creature are such that the arms are longer in
proportion to its body length than human arms, and the
torso to leg rank length. I guess ratios are also different.
(01:19:26):
The other thing that he pointed out is when you
have prince, and he's also a collector of prince and
has been through decades. I believe the largest collector of prince.
His was the largest collection. And when you look at that,
he speaks to what is called a mid tarsal break.
(01:19:51):
And the mid tarsal break occurs in the foot and
when we step off, when humans step off and move forward,
our gait is such that we move and push ourselves
to a degree from the ball of the foot.
Speaker 7 (01:20:08):
Now, a true.
Speaker 16 (01:20:10):
Cast of what people believe may be a sasquatch or
a big foot print is such that you can see
that mid foot a little bit past mid is what
they call a mid tarsal break. And originally that was
from a creature such as an ape, that would braciate,
(01:20:32):
br ac chiate through trees, limbs, et cetera. In other words,
they were sufficiently fascile that they of course could utilize
their hands fingers, opposable thumbs, and they have things that
are similar to that an eight so that when they
brecate they can grasp with their feet. And I heard
(01:20:56):
somebody about to ask a question.
Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
No, actually, I think that was just room noise being
picked up on a mic somewhere. Okay, never Actually, if
I can interject with b Z a second, sure, what
is the fascination with Bigfoot being a forest dwelling creature,
not a necessarily subterranean creature who comes up to the
(01:21:21):
surface as you would find in darren Coou, Kappadocia, Mattiott
and Turkey, where you had up to twenty thousand people
living underground with kitchens and wells and storage. Has anyone
ever done a like a lidar scan of where Bigfoot's
typically and habit.
Speaker 4 (01:21:42):
I don't think so.
Speaker 16 (01:21:43):
You could say that also, of there were Indian cultures
in the Southwest that Doug Caves and Doug Holmes, they
didn't involve any any cryptids or things that could be
interpreted as cryptids. But doctor Milon addressed this not from
(01:22:04):
a manner of locale, but from a manner of strictly
an anthropological and a skeletal viewpoint from whatever evidence that
he had. He said during the lecture that one of
the best, one of the things that he'd gone so
many years making investigations of this. They he said, if
(01:22:27):
I die and I don't actually make a viewing of
a Sasquatch, I will be so disappointed. Before he died,
he got his wish. He went out on an expedition
with Todd standing and was able to actually see one.
Speaker 7 (01:22:45):
I had what I believed to be a viewing of one.
Speaker 16 (01:22:50):
I can tell that later on another day. It's going
to be too long for this show. But I appreciate
in particular the view that doctor Mill had in terms
of examining this only on a scientific basis. And the
other thing that I found that was interesting after having
gone to that that I drove twenty two hundred miles
(01:23:11):
to Broomfield, Colorado, from North Idaho, about ninety miles south
of the Canadian border, strictly to go see doctor Meldrim,
myself and missus b Z. And it was probably the
best two days that we ever spent. It was two
days on the road, two days there and two days back.
I drove four days in a car, and I would
(01:23:31):
do it again to see him. Sadly, he passed away
of brain cancer at the age of sixty seven in September,
which is an extreme loss. But his attack on this,
his examination of the Patterson Gimlin film, was solely in
terms of a scientific examination of what was there. And
(01:23:55):
if you were to have listened to what he said
in comparison to a stabilized version of that brief film,
you would essentially come away convinced. And then after that
I made a very interesting discovery. He mentioned two things
that were very important to me. One was the mid
(01:24:18):
tarsal break, and that's something that you do not see
in humans. The other thing that he mentioned, because this
is just.
Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
What he did.
Speaker 16 (01:24:27):
When humans walk, we break our foot, like I say,
from the ball of the foot, and that is how
we advance and go forward. And if you were to
look at you know, next time you think about this,
humans do not walk in a linear fashion. So if
you see footsteps in mud or sand or snow some place,
(01:24:48):
or you know, having been in the water and you
see the footprints there, you'll notice that humans don't walk
in a linear fashion. We alternate our steps obviously, but
they're not straight. And one of the things he pointed
out with numerous illustrations is when you see alleged indications
(01:25:10):
of a bigfoot or a saucequatch. And again, I'm referring
to a rather limited area. You know, I'm not going
into all sorts of other things. I'm just going to
into the things that primarily he's seeing or he was
seeing in Idaho, California, Colorado, Wyoming, northwest kind of like that.
(01:25:32):
To my knowledge, he did not do any examinations, nor
was he particularly interested in things that were in the south, southwest, northeast,
what might be in the.
Speaker 7 (01:25:48):
Southeast.
Speaker 16 (01:25:50):
His experiences were limited in terms of that's where he
could go to find these things. But then I went
back and I looked at this big old hanging book
that I have right here, and I'm looking at this thing.
It's about a three pound book from nineteen sixty one,
and on page seventy eight, I remember doctor Meldrum saying,
(01:26:11):
you know, when I see these prints, they are linear
in nature, and they do not alternate in that fashion.
They are very straight. So I'm looking at page seventy
eight and way back in nineteen sixty one, there's a
photograph of what they considered to be a YETI and
YETI prints. And finally, only now did I recognize and
(01:26:35):
understand that these prints in this book, in a photograph
from nineteen sixty one show the same damn thing. It's
a linear walking pattern. So I come from a physicality
examination of this. Other people say, well, they're interdimensional, okay, whatever,
I can only look at well, people say, how come
(01:27:00):
we've never found any any bigfoot skeletons. While up in
the Sierra Nevada Mountains we had wild hogs, and I
had seen two or three along with bear when I
would go hiking with my Ruger Alaskan in four fifty
four cassault just in case. And when I went hiking,
(01:27:27):
you know, you would get the kind of creepy cruller feeling,
so to speak. And that's my frame of reference in
terms of physical stuff. I don't know anything about inter
dimensionality or any other location. I can only speak to that,
and to summarize in a rather lengthy exposition, if you
(01:27:52):
were to have seen his presentation, he might even have
a video out there somewhere.
Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
At the end of it.
Speaker 16 (01:28:00):
After an hour and a half, two hours, whatever it was,
after he spoke, you would be convinced that the Patterson
Gimlin film is real. And the people that think that
it's bullshit, I'm afraid they're not coming at it from
a scientific standpoint. And that was his standpoint, and he
was He was booed and hissed, and people in his
(01:28:24):
field in Idaho University would be little him. And if
you were to listen to him, you'd understand very quickly
this is a highly educated man, very well versed in
his field of anthropology, biomechanics and the like, a very
very highly intelligent individual. And now once with his passing,
(01:28:47):
I'm afraid that a lot of this stuff, at least
with regard to Bigfoot, is going to be ridiculed again.
But there's history in this, and I'm sure Jeff will
realize this. When you talk about Gigantopithecus black Eye, that's
the reference. You're talking about something that there is skeletal
(01:29:10):
evidence of a creature not too dissimilar from Bigfoot of
ten eleven feet, and there are numerous examples of skeletal
remains from that. So I come from my curiosity of
Bigfoot in Sasquatch is not only that I was living
(01:29:32):
up in that area for a long time, but I
just found it very interesting in light also of the
viewing that I had. So that's my story and I'm
sticking to it. Thanks for allowing me the amount of
time to bloviate and Bigfoot your show, sir, Well.
Speaker 7 (01:29:53):
I want to jump in here real quick on a
couple points because also living in the Sierras at seven
thousand feet. First, like to kind of answer Jeff's question
about you know, doing light our tests on the area
of the habitat. We're talking about from the Kern River
up through the Sierras down through the PMW coastal British
(01:30:15):
Columbia and parts of Alaska. You're talking over a quarter
million square miles of area. You could have a colony
of five hundred basically never easily.
Speaker 2 (01:30:27):
Who And that's my my when I did my it
TC about Bigfoot slash yetty the fact that they don't
typically explore the cave probability the underground society because quote
unquote human society has shown a preponserance of societies hiding
(01:30:54):
from people and the easiest way to do that is
below ground.
Speaker 7 (01:30:59):
Well, yeah, definitely, And there's I mean, there's a lot
when you're talking about the Sierras. I mean you're talking
the one of the largest temperate, contiguous temperate zones on
the planet. You've got mountain slopes coming down into mountain
drainage into uh blowdown tangles into I mean, the area
(01:31:23):
is just so vast and you know, you know, if
you had mentioned people say, well, you know, why don't
we ever find you know, bigfootbones. So that's urban brain
thinking because it is you know, the soil is very
acidic in the Sierras. Plus you know the weather and
everything else. If you I mean, if you're hunting deer
(01:31:45):
in the Sierras and you shoot a deer and it
doesn't go down and it bounds off, if you don't
track it, that deer is gone, well you know.
Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
What already to emphasize your point there, think for how
many years the Elephant Craveyard was a thing.
Speaker 7 (01:32:04):
Oh that myth lasted into the early part of the
twentieth century. We knew about mountain guerrillas and had never
found a body until we started following them in earnest.
Speaker 4 (01:32:14):
Yes.
Speaker 7 (01:32:15):
But yeah, so like I said, that's just urban brain thinking.
Why you know, I mean with predation and you know,
my crowbial you know decay plus the city of the
soil one weather pattern comes through the Sierras.
Speaker 2 (01:32:29):
And also well, and it's funny because I want to
bring Ken into here because I know him and his
wonderful I was gonna I want to reference their show
real quick because you know his his wonderful wife, who
couldn't be on the show tonight with him. Well, she
jokes about being able to bury a body with no evidence,
(01:32:51):
and I know Aggie has mentioned the same thing.
Speaker 14 (01:32:54):
It is.
Speaker 15 (01:32:55):
This is not a judgment zone.
Speaker 2 (01:32:57):
No, no, it absolutely isn't. But the but you guys
present facts that are undisputable of being truthful that it
would be real easy to do. Now extrapulate that to
an earth sized area of coverage. Come on it. The
probability of finding bones is next to nothing. It's and
(01:33:24):
it's like finding shit in the woods. You're not going
to do it unless you step in it.
Speaker 7 (01:33:29):
Well, it's like you know Biff talking about seeing the
wild the wild pig and the bear in here. Living
in the Sierras for forty years, I have seen five bear.
All of them have been in town, rooting through dumpsters.
I've seen one corpse of a bear and that was
on the side of a road in a heavy bear
crossing and it had gotten struck. Well, how Bigfoot has
never gotten struck by a car? Again, that's urban brains.
(01:33:54):
Most of the are logging roads, if that they're forest I.
Speaker 2 (01:33:59):
One of the benefits living in Vermont. I used to
joke that moose were mythology, that they didn't exist, because
for the first fifteen years in Vermont, I never saw
a moose. Okay, and then one night or one afternoon
with my now ex wife, we pulled over on a
(01:34:19):
mountain so I could urinate.
Speaker 7 (01:34:23):
And Iranya, Yeah, I know right.
Speaker 2 (01:34:26):
I went maybe one hundred and fifty feet in and
went to relieve myself. And after I was done, I
looked to my right. Seventy five to one hundred feet
away from me was a female moose in her little
her offspring. And if you do not know how big
moose are, I had no clue that moose was that
(01:34:48):
close to me until I saw it.
Speaker 7 (01:34:52):
They're huge. Yes, Like you know, I've walked parts of
the JMT, the John Muir Trail, the Pacific Crest Trail.
I'm not going to say I did the whole thing,
but I've done a lot of midsier portions of it. Again,
never I've seen thousands of deer, never one bear. But
before we move on to KD, I want to bounce
(01:35:12):
off Aggie again real quick. From an anthropological and archaeological
I know we kind of touched on it with predation
and decay, what's you know where? Where is that just
pure urban brain With not finding you know, the Great
Sasquatch graveyard.
Speaker 15 (01:35:30):
The problem that you have is that you are talking
about items that are carbon based, so they do biodegrade.
Speaker 10 (01:35:40):
And.
Speaker 15 (01:35:41):
Sasquatch is something that isn't you know, from the before
times where it could get you know, fossilized. That's a
problem that you're going to have. Another problem that you
have is that there are several species of animals that
(01:36:03):
do eat bone, hell, they eat teeth, So that's another
problem that you have to contend with. But a graveyard
actually would indicate if you were to ever find a graveyard,
it would in a kate obviously a sign of intelligence
because they are you know, convening the dead bodies in
one area. So in my opinion, the reason that you
(01:36:28):
probably don't find the bones is that they just they
have disintegrated over time, or they have been picked apart
by animals, or there are several reasons that are pretty
normal reasons as to why you would not find a
lot of bones. And most of the time people are
not really looking for They want to find the live dude,
(01:36:51):
not the dead one. So you know, that's one of
the that's one of the big ones. Most people aren't
looking for the dead stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
And I will add on to Aggie having been part
of some research and rescue attempts, Even when you know
the last known location of someone, it can take twenty
four to forty eight hours if you're lucky, to find
someone who is actively trying to be found.
Speaker 7 (01:37:23):
Yeah, I mean yeah, especially you know, yeah SNR up
here and you know, Beff knows it from the other
side of the Sierra is sn R. That's a week
long process, you know, before it becomes a recovery, you know.
And that's just I mean, it's the area is just
so dense, just so overgrown.
Speaker 16 (01:37:45):
So well in terms of search and rescue. The other
thing that is quite common on that is people don't
stay where the hell they are. If they're in a car,
they need to stay there. They never stay anywhere they
get out they walk around the even more difficult to
discover to find.
Speaker 7 (01:38:01):
Them, being on the mouth of death Valley. Every corpse
and death Valley is somebody who left their car.
Speaker 2 (01:38:08):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 15 (01:38:10):
Yeah, that's true, you know, and don't don't forget that
as even though the world is small, there are places
that human beings have yet to discover. There are places
in Hawaii, of all, places that people have never been
to because you can't get to it.
Speaker 10 (01:38:30):
So you that too.
Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
And to further enhance Aggie's point, you know, everyone loves
to say, oh, everything on Earth has been mapped, well
on a on a very overreaching arc. Yes, but when
you look at how little the ocean has been researched,
there's one part of Earth that has been researched even less,
and that is underground. Look how how frequently we find
(01:38:56):
evidence of underground water, underground oil, underground this and that. God,
there's no no amount of I would say better than
one percent of you know, a mile under the surface
that has been researched.
Speaker 7 (01:39:11):
All right, so let's get uh, ken, why don't you
jump in with your big foot observations while we're here,
Well on the topic.
Speaker 17 (01:39:21):
Well, the we're discussing about the bones and lack of
evidence there being spending so much time in the woods
being hoicking or camping or hunting or all those things combined.
For example, there's a spot not far from here that
I would go camping.
Speaker 7 (01:39:43):
Every time.
Speaker 17 (01:39:44):
I'd cash my supplies there and I would stay, and
I'd go back to the same spot, and in that
area lots of hogs, you know, faral hogs, lots of
deer obviously, things like that. That and I would run
across remains ever so often, usually you know, some sort
(01:40:09):
of kill or or whatever, something natural.
Speaker 7 (01:40:13):
So I'm getting that.
Speaker 17 (01:40:15):
But the next time you go back, maybe a week later,
those bones could be gone or spread out, or no
sign left them at all because of scavengers. You know,
ague is mentioning creatures that eat bones and even teeth,
and they're out there. So, uh, the side of a body,
(01:40:35):
whether it be you know, whether it be a bigfoot, whatever,
or hogs or deers, you name it, those remains aren't
going to stay there long at all. We're talking within days,
they'll be spread out and devoured within the month, within
(01:40:55):
a matter of weeks, there there's no sign left at all.
So when you look at an animal that like Bigfoot,
for instance, which is not near as heavily populated or
as numerous as deers and bears even you know, if
(01:41:18):
their body, their remains would be harder to find, just
because how many people here has seen a let's say,
a hog remains or or a deer, even which are
extremely populated, not on the side of the road. I'm
(01:41:39):
talking out in the woods.
Speaker 4 (01:41:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (01:41:41):
I will I will say I grew up as a
farmer on a dairy farm, and finding a cow completely
stripped of its leathers and maybe twenty five to forty
percent of its bones remaining, approximately three to four days
after its death is shocking the first time you see it.
Speaker 7 (01:42:02):
Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 17 (01:42:05):
It's like people don't think about how quickly they get
picked apart and spread out and again no sign left
within it.
Speaker 2 (01:42:16):
And with this seventy two hours, the only thing that
is remaining might be patches. And when you think of
cow's height, I mean that's what we use for leather.
Patches of that left no internals, know nothing else, and
not even half of its bone structure. It is crazy
to understand the efficiency of nature right exactly.
Speaker 17 (01:42:42):
And you know, there's some theories that Sasquatch actually bury
their dead as well, and that just adds another layer
if that's accurate.
Speaker 7 (01:42:51):
And like Aaron just posts on there.
Speaker 17 (01:42:53):
The even an elephant, the African elephant carcus doesn't last
longer than a week when they're when they're down. You know,
that's the efficiency of nature. Like you said, it cleans
up after itself and it recycles itself. So it doesn't
surprise me at all that we've not found legitimate bones
or or or anything like that from a Sasquatch.
Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
I would honestly be more shocked if we did find it,
because the luck factor that whoever finds the first Sasquatch
yetty bones go pullay the lottery. You're on that lucky
streak that.
Speaker 7 (01:43:30):
Is the lottery.
Speaker 17 (01:43:31):
You just wrote that, And I've always heard it said
that you won't find it unless you're out there looking.
So people who are naysayers that say, well, when came
they ever find this? Well, when have you ever went
and looked?
Speaker 4 (01:43:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 7 (01:43:47):
Yeah, yeah, And going back to you know what Biff
was talking about with the Jesus Christ, with the Patterson
Gimblin film too. So for that have been hoaxed, and
you know, I know there's been a'm elaja deathbed confession
and everything. That was the right suit in the right terrain,
(01:44:11):
with the right mass distribution, the right shoulder with and
a gate with a hip hip to the mechanic that
I don't think Andy Serkis could pull off.
Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
That is a Goldilocks zone that is unbelievable in space,
let alone on Earth.
Speaker 16 (01:44:28):
As I indicated, you couldn't pull that crap off with
millions of dollars in Hollywood. How do a couple of
what they described at the time Rubes in nineteen sixty seven,
how could they pull that off?
Speaker 7 (01:44:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
I want to interject something. I want to interject something
for a moment because I'm I've been a Bigfoot believer
for a while. But Beaz's comment about the costume comparison
was one honestly, I've never heard before. And I even
I've been dming. I've been dming with already throughout the
show tonight, and I'm kidding. I damned you on Twitter
(01:45:07):
even when Bzy, when you said that about the costumes
that of movies. At the same time, I went, oh
my god, I've never really heard that before. So thank you, Oh,
you're welcome, Yes, but you you go back and look
at that movie.
Speaker 16 (01:45:21):
You try to make some kind of a cogent comparison
of the of a stabilized and slightly enhanced version of
the Patterson Gimlin film, and then look at that one,
and you're the first thing your brain says when you
see two thousand and one State of the damn Art
was suit.
Speaker 7 (01:45:43):
See. I guess Kuber didn't have the budget to go
back in time like he did when he faked the
moon landings on location.
Speaker 4 (01:45:49):
Well he had on that there.
Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Yeah, you know, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 4 (01:45:54):
All right?
Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
So I do want to get some Oklahoma related stuff
in real quick as we get towards the end of
the program here, because I don't know if you guys
know this or not, but Oklahoma has in recent history.
It's all of one hundred and thirteen listed reports of
bigfoot or sat squads type encounters. You musing around naked again,
Well maybe, but not this one. In August of twenty
(01:46:15):
twenty five, so as recently is just a couple of
months ago, a motorist on State Highway four observed a
big foot type creature crossing the Canadian River, approximately fifteen
miles southwest of Oklahoma City. Now, of course, most of
the sidings are encounters are more in rural, wooded areas.
Looks it seems like Laflora County is a really big
hotspot in Oklahoma for that kind of stuff. But that's
(01:46:37):
because I think that's getting down towards the closest thing.
Do we have to mountains around here.
Speaker 2 (01:46:41):
Which are more like mole hills? But yeah, so there are.
Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
In terms of state wide ranking, Oklahoma has about two
point six sidings per one hundred thousand people, according to
an aggregated set of statistics that was able to find that,
considering Oklahoma only has four point five million people in it.
If you start to do the math, it seems like
there might actually be more big Foot than people in
my state.
Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
Just pointing that out. Not really, but I.
Speaker 7 (01:47:09):
Wish that was the case in California. Uh So, I
think we should probably wrap with since we focused heavily
on Bigfoot. Just go around the table and you know
your your final thoughts. Do you believe it? Do you
(01:47:31):
believe in Bigfoot? I think old ladies first start with Aggie.
Speaker 15 (01:47:38):
I believe in it. I think there is room to
believe that Hamanids still are out there and still are
intelligent beings and intelligent enough to stay away from the
crazy that we have become. So yeah, I totally believe it.
Speaker 16 (01:48:00):
I Bill absolutely, I had a sighting. I spoke to
doctor Mildrum about it. I'll regale that tale later, but
that in terms of the science that's been applied, yeah,
I'm I'm a believer in the best thing about Mildram
was he brought scientific rigor to the study of Bigfoot.
(01:48:23):
That's what I'll remember him for.
Speaker 7 (01:48:26):
And that's actually the rare thing about it too, is
because you know, getting back to the mountain gorillas and
you know the Elephant graveyard. You know, it's with the
mountain gorillas. Nobody, everybody thought it was myth until some
soldier came back with some samples, and then it was
you know, the whole British scientific field just descended on
the congo and then Jane Goodall stayed. But with his Bigfoot,
(01:48:51):
you have as much, if not more, evidence for Bigfoot
and science won't touch it.
Speaker 2 (01:48:57):
We'll moving on. Just what I think.
Speaker 16 (01:48:59):
If we can find a celacanth, why can't we find
a bigfoot?
Speaker 7 (01:49:03):
Yeah, exactly, And you can't de extinct something, you know.
That's like, there's so much photographic evidence of the Tasmanian
tiger now that you you know that they thought was extinct.
They just haven't caught a sample yet. But you can't
de extinct that one now either. So moving on, Jeff, Yes, sorry,
(01:49:28):
I just literally got back down.
Speaker 2 (01:49:29):
What were you asking me?
Speaker 7 (01:49:31):
Okay, sorry, we're wrapping up with it. Do you believe it?
Speaker 19 (01:49:35):
You know?
Speaker 7 (01:49:35):
What are your thoughts in Bigfoot? Do you believe it?
You know what's your fine?
Speaker 2 (01:49:39):
I would have I honestly would have been fifty to
fifty before tonight. Ez has turned me seventy five twenty
five in favor. That said, I am one hundred percent
believer of Yetti because I believe that that environment is
more favorable to hide life as we know it. But yeah,
(01:50:05):
I've always thought that there was a possibility of this.
Bigfoot has always scared the crap out of me, to
the point at my earliest age, the scariest thing I've
ever saw on TV was Chewbacca in Star Wars. That legit,
he scared me the first time I ever saw that movie.
And living in the border of Maryland and West Virginia.
(01:50:27):
I always heard all the stories and rumors and and whatnot,
so I've always thought there was a strong possibility of Bigfoot.
I do believe in Yetti more than Bigfoot, but that
does not mean I discredit Bigfoot at all.
Speaker 7 (01:50:42):
That's just when we were talking about YETI last week,
when because I had never heard that. You know, it's
also believed to be a rare offshoot of a prehistoric
pollar bearing rolling around. Okay, wait, wait that doesn't raise questions,
you know, so hey, that's that that alone should be like, hey,
(01:51:04):
maybe we might want to look into that. Ken.
Speaker 17 (01:51:09):
Yes, absolutely, Uh.
Speaker 7 (01:51:12):
I'm in the same camp as b Z.
Speaker 17 (01:51:14):
I've had family history with sasquatch here and uh I've
had a sighting myself, and I've experienced other uh you know,
the signs and the sounds and think whatnot while camping
and out in the woods and all that. So I'm
a Humbercent believer. I do believe it's a blood and
(01:51:34):
bone creature. I don't buy into the interdimensional side of it.
I don't think that's what That's something different Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Yetie,
as you you know, they're all I think different variations
of the same creature, and I think it's a blood
(01:51:55):
and bone creature from gigantic gigant Epithecus. That's uh kind
of involved and depending on the area see.
Speaker 7 (01:52:05):
Believer. Yeah, I'm gonna give mine and then throw off
to Rick here.
Speaker 17 (01:52:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (01:52:12):
Absolutely, living in the stores, you know, I've never had
a siding. Yeah. I told a story last week of
guy that I worked with. He also owned a camera shop.
Man brought in some film to be developed, just you know,
vacation footage, and when he got it back, my coworker,
the guy who owned the camera shop, asked him anything
(01:52:34):
unusual that day you want to talk about and he's, oh, no,
not at all. And he's all, well, you know what
you know he was talking about. I can tell you
were up at this one lake and blah blah blah
blah blah. Here are the photos of it. And he said,
you know what, My kids just came running up said hey, Dad,
we need to see the camera ran off with the camera.
I thought they were just being you know, taking a
whole bunch of pictures of some gear or rock or
something and came back because they didn't say anything about it.
(01:52:56):
They were kind of like giggling and you know, like
they had an inside joke the rest of the day
and that was it. And the way that the man
who I used to work would describe it to me,
just the thousand yards stare he would get remembering those
photos was enough to seal that for me that they
were you know, localized, and just knowing the area that
(01:53:17):
I live in. I mean, they didn't find a bomber
in the Sierras that had crashed during World War Two
at Beach twenty five. It took him fifty years to
find it, and they knew where it crashed so generally,
so yeah, I it can't not be here, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:53:42):
So as for me, this has always been one of
those eighty twenty issues. I'm pretty I'm about eighty percent
positive the thing either did exist or likely even still
does exist, especially since I'm looking at pictures and stuff
from a siding that apparently happened in my necka would
just a couple of months ago. So yeah, I think
it's real. I remember, you know, I have a longtime
(01:54:05):
childhood friend whose family had a cabin down in Poto,
and I remember him telling me at one time when
him and his dad and his brother were down there
that they heard the usual you know, the hooton and
hollering from you know when we did the ones that
Look Like Us episode where we played that stuff. Yeah,
they actually talked about it.
Speaker 7 (01:54:24):
Yeah, sounds the one we didn't get and I've kicked
myself and I is the excuse me the Ohio scream.
Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:54:33):
I thought about trying to find some of that stuff,
but I figured with as many people as we were
gonna have on, we were gonna be pretty much wall.
Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
The wall talking and I was pretty well right.
Speaker 1 (01:54:43):
But yeah, I think again, I do. I honestly believe
in most scryptids. So I'm just gonna throw that out there.
Since we've been doing this for five weeks, I am
a firm believer in most of them now, whether some
of them are you know, sheered delusion or this whole
new thing that we're finding out through quad mechanics of
you know, things that you find happening to you and
(01:55:04):
your present or even future decisions can somehow impact your past.
I don't know. Maybe that has something to do with it.
But you know, the more we delve into these topics,
when we come back around to them, and the deeper
we dive into them, meet you, and every time I'm
more convinced these things are real. But we are just
about out of time, so I'm going to start letting
everybody off the hook. Let's start with miss Aggie wherein
(01:55:26):
Folks find you.
Speaker 15 (01:55:28):
You can find me at Aggie the Barkeep and at
eight thirty pm Eastern Tuesday nights doing the Cocktail Lounge
with the Eperswamp Brad Slagger eight thirty pm Eastern Friday
nights doing he says she said with you. The second
Wednesday of every month, some of the guys right here
(01:55:48):
get together for Toxic Masculinity at eight pm, and I
bring the drink of the evening and last of not
please Jeff and I will be doing Spirited Books this
coming Monday, the first Monday of every month.
Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
At a You mean I gotta read a book tomorrow?
Speaker 15 (01:56:03):
Yes, you do.
Speaker 7 (01:56:06):
Better?
Speaker 19 (01:56:07):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (01:56:08):
And all right, So next up, let's go over to
ken work in Folks find user.
Speaker 17 (01:56:15):
Uh at bump Stock can on X and I'm also
find me at at FP Underscore for Engines for front
Ports for Engines. Our show is Saturday nights, UH seven
pm Central until nine pm usually, and it's me and
(01:56:35):
my lovely wife, bump Stock, Barbie, and we do all
things criminal, serial killers, true crime, and uh sometimes we
get way off into weeds and just have a good
time with it. So that's where you can find me.
I'm always ready to jump in and be on a
panel wherever I can, So that's me easy.
Speaker 1 (01:57:00):
I don't want to hear about everything else. I don't
need to hear about how easy you are.
Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
I'm not kidding, all right, So, BZ, where can folks
find you?
Speaker 16 (01:57:07):
I'm on shr Media, I'm on KLRN. I'm not broadcast
live on Tuesday night. I am broadcast live on Thursday
night on KLRN, So you can find me. I'm a
late night kind of guy Tuesday and Thursday nights eight
pm Pacific, ten pm Central, eleven pm Eastern. Bz's Berserk
Bobcat Saloon Radio show. Be there, You've got to be there.
(01:57:28):
Aloha and aliens, Sir, where can folks find you?
Speaker 15 (01:57:33):
Well?
Speaker 2 (01:57:34):
I first want to make a comment nout about tonight's show.
A it was awesome. Panel was great. But the one
thing that struck me the most about this as being
an alien observer on human life on the planet, is
the exuberance of what Earthlings think they know. He surprises
(01:58:01):
me the you know one point, we thought we were
the center of the universe and we don't even understand
the planet that we exist on. So for the fact
that cryptos could exist absolutely makes sense. We need to
quit pretending we have a higher than fifth or sixth
grade understanding of physics, six or seventh grade level of
(01:58:24):
of you know everything else. We are still infants in
a universe that we're gaining knowledge on. So I hope
we I hope everyone that listened tonight took something away
from a lot of great opinions, because this has been
a fascinating show on understanding of what we don't know
(01:58:44):
that could be real and most likely is real. Now
that said, you can find me on Twitter slash x
at a Cosmic Bard. You can find me tomorrow on
the Vincent Charles Project at six pm Eastern. You can
find me on Lost Wonder at eight pm Eastern. Here
on kaylor And Radio talking space and science. You can
(01:59:05):
find me on Monday with Aggie talking about a book
I haven't read yet that I have to read tomorrow morning.
You knew this was coming, dude, Like I haven't been
busy with the Kailor and radio play. Whatever your tables
waiting bitter par do.
Speaker 4 (01:59:23):
You have one?
Speaker 2 (01:59:24):
Oh, it's a whole bunch of bitters. But yeah, other
than that, I think I'm off the rest of the
next week. So yeah, I'll be listening in the background,
producing and doing other things. So find me here and there,
all right, and Amish, Where can folks find you? I
think I've gone around the panel other than you, I think, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (01:59:44):
No, I was keeping track. Yeah, thanks Risk. You can
find me as Ordinance Packard on Twitter. Surprisingly, still nobody's
more surprised than me.
Speaker 14 (01:59:53):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (01:59:53):
You can find me tomorrow on the Vincent Vincent Charles
Project at three pm Pacific with Jeff and Vincent. You
can find me Tuesday night. No, you cannot find me
Tuesday night on the Manorama Panel because we have a
double election here in California and I will be emanding
the Ada machines for that. You can find me Wednesday
on Rick and Already with you. And that's it for
(02:00:16):
the week. I'm gonna go be a longer now, all right, folks.
Speaker 1 (02:00:20):
Well as far as for me, you can find me
tomorrow night doing Kingdom and Country right here Livecale on
Radio ten pm Eastern back again Monday Night, America Off
the Rails ten pm Eastern. Tuesday through Friday. In the mornings,
starting at ten am, I do the Rick Robinson Show.
We also now do the Weekend News roundup at three
pm Eastern on Friday afternoons because we're actually starting to
(02:00:41):
expand the panel that appears there, And you can also
find me on Tuesday Night. I will in fact be
on the Manorama panel. I also for the moment am
the producer of that show, so I kind of have
to be there. So it'll be me and VC and
probably some other random Canadians and I'm gonna try to
see if I can wrangle Jeff back in sinzomishcamb there anyway,
So you thought you weren gonna have to work once
(02:01:02):
this week, I'm gonna try to fix.
Speaker 13 (02:01:03):
That for you.
Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:01:05):
You can also find me on X at Rodix seventy three.
You can follow along with everything we do here at
Kalan Radio on X, on YouTube, on Rumble, and on Facebook.
Want to give a quick shout out to the couple
of people that I've seen that have been watching on
Facebook and YouTube. Those are the two places we never
really seem to get any traction, so it's cool to
see people starting to pop in from over there. I
(02:01:26):
want to thank everybody who always checks us out on
x We've had some amazing numbers tonight. Last time I
looked at front ports for Indix Forensics, they were over
seven hundred. I think we're pretty close to seven hundred
right now on X alone. I haven't looked anywhere else yet,
and I think that's it. You can find me as
a contributor to twitchy dot com, Misfitspolitics dot com, and
The Lotsparty dot Com, and I also produce a Lots
(02:01:47):
of Party podcast which drops on Tuesdays. I want to
thank everybody for hanging out with us tonight. I want
to thank my usual co host cohort and partner and
crame on this one. You guys know him as the
Amish one. And uh, we're gonna get out of here.
You guys enjoy the rest of your Saturday night. Oh,
don't forget to set your clocks back to random levels
(02:02:09):
of seasonal depression.
Speaker 7 (02:02:10):
O damn it. Al Hydra, the Hailing of the Hydra.
We've had this discussion. Al Hydra coactimist.
Speaker 17 (02:02:24):
Annah call me
Speaker 2 (02:02:31):
Say good night Gracie
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