NBA Trade Deadline Special

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, this is just a little add on that
I'm doing a little amendment to the podcast because obviously
the Mark Williams news came in midway through the podcast,
but you wouldn't know that if you're listening from the
very beginning. So, the trade being rescinded by the Lakers
due to Mark Williams failing his physical with them, because
they found things in his physical that then made them

(00:23):
very wary about his ability to stay healthy with the team.
And so at this point in negotiations or after the
trade deadline, normally, what you could do if it was
before the trade deadline, the two teams could meet back
with one another and renegotiate what the things that they
were included in the deal. So whether the Lakers could
renegotiate if they wanted to include that twenty thirty one pick,
or if Dalton connect was even going to be in

(00:44):
the deal, something of that sort, right, But because of
the fact that it's after the trade deadline, all you
could really do at this point is to rescind the trade,
which is what the Lakers inevitably end up doing. So
all the pieces go back to their respective places. In
regards to Dalton connecting Cam Reddish going back to the
Lakers and Mark Williams staying with the Hornets. It's funny
because the Hornets it feels like they almost pulled one

(01:04):
over on the Lakers in terms of the health of
Mark Williams. And you know, the Lakers are so desperate
for a center to pair with Lebron and Luka Doncic.
But now you're in a situation if you're the Lakers,
where you're not really gonna have that player to fortify
the back end of your or rather the front court
of your team. So now a lot of what we
talk about in the beginning portion of the podcast really

(01:26):
becomes irrelevant to some degrees. But I didn't want to
just record this portion of it, and just I still
think that the Lakers can be a problem for many
teams just based on matchups. But when you don't have
a viable big to the degree that Mark Williams is
when he's healthy, I think that definitely makes the Lakers
less of a enticing team in terms of actually making
a playoff run. But I did just want to let

(01:48):
you guys know that I'm going to also be recording
another podcast episode shortly about the Super Bowl. I didn't
want to put the two episodes in one and have
them I have almost like a four hour long episode
talking about the podcast or sorry, talking about the super
Bowl and then also NBA trade deadline, like both respective
things need their own time to breathe and be discussed,

(02:08):
and I talk about it even in the podcast that
NBA trade deadline was just so crazy that it dominates
so many headlines that that's what the focal point ended up
being in terms of my coverage this week. And I
only have so much bandwidth in terms of covering both
super Bowl and NBA trades and so on, and getting
all the research for both and then editing all the content.
So I will be doing a Super Bowl podcast shortly

(02:32):
after the results of the super Bowl, so stay on
the lookout for that. But yeah, let's get back to
the regular scheduled podcast episode. What's going on y'all, it's
the KBR Sports podcast, you know, the best sports podcast
of your twenty four hour day. Thanks for tuning in
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(02:54):
you could. I always appreciate those ratings because it helped
push the podcast out to more listening audiences. And of course,
at the time that we're recording this podcast is right
after the NBA trade deadline, I think where two days removed,
right ahead of Super Bowl Sunday, obviously, so by the
time you guys are getting this, you'll probably be getting
ready for your Super Bowl preparations. But did want to

(03:14):
get a podcast out about the NBA trade deadline, but
also we'll be doing a podcast in reaction to the
everything super Bowl, everything that's going to happen in the
Super Bowl. But the reason I wanted to do the
podcast this way because I wanted to touch on some
of the super Bowl topics. But that NBA just has
such a crazy week. It's rare when you see the
NBA dominate conversation ahead of the Super Bowl, and the

(03:34):
NBA just was on such a next level news cycle
that the NBA just dominated everything and it was way
more interesting. You could see it in Google, SEO and everything,
that more people wanted to hear about the NBA than
the NFL in a weird timeframe. So obviously when one
of the biggest international stars gets traded, it's kind of
you expect it, so naturally, the end the Super Bowl

(03:54):
has kind of got pushed back, and my own time
schedule also has made it difficult to talk about the
Super Bowl and what have you, So naturally I'll be
talking about the everything super Bowl afterwards and then we'll
get back into talking about regular NBA stuff. Luka Dancic
was supposed to make his debut today, which is Saturday,
but then they pushed it back because he apparently he

(04:16):
had five on five scheduled for Thursday, they pushed it
to Friday, so then that naturally pushed back his debut.
So that'supposed to be happening on Monday. So I'll be talking
about that on next next week's episode of the podcast
and so on. And Mark Williams, I believe should be
making his debut soon too. He hasn't shown up or
debuty either, so hopefully that will happen. Funny enough, the

(04:36):
last time I think I saw Mark Williams play was
when they've played a game since he got traded, or
right before he got traded to played the game. But
the last game I watched him play was actually against
the Lakers, an anti David shop like forty and something
on him. But that's besides the point. But yes, I
just want to give you guys some of that that
that heads up leading into the week. But of course

(04:57):
we're going to talking about all NBA trade deadline things
and my guy, of course, you guys know, whenever I
got to talk big NBA news and so on, I
bring my guy snack Keelmeal to talk about it with me.
My guy, how are we doing, how are we feeling.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I'm straight we are probably one of the most we've
ever acknowledged LEAs or weights. I guess I should say.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, it was. It was pretty
every single day it felt like we were waiting on debt.
After the Luca trade happened, it felt like anybody could
get traded. And honestly, that is part of the storylines
of things that happened, because once Luca got traded, you
see all these different NBA players like Kevin Durant, Anthony
Edwards talking about the trade, and they're all talking about

(05:41):
how it made everybody in the league realize that, hey,
you're not safe, no matter if you think you're that
guy or not anybody could be traded at a moment's notice,
especially now with the salary cap and the new CBA
in effect with the first and second apron, which I'll
go into more detail later, because some of the trade
that did happen, you imagine that the set first and

(06:02):
second apron might have come into effect. Honestly, it might
have come into effect with the Luca trade. And that's
actually where we'll start with Los Angeles, because the Lakers,
after trading for Luka Doncics did actually go and make
a move to go land Mark Williams, the center from Charlotte,
and in return they get Mark Williams, who averaged who's
averaging currently on the season fifteen point six points per

(06:23):
game nine point six rebounds as a twenty six point
five pr does have a minus five point six on
and off, but that's naturally he's playing on the bad
team with the hornet, so your on off numbers are
just gonna lactually look bad when you're playing on a
bat team because you're always losing and you're always at
the deficit for the most part. So that does impact
things and his defense when he when he's guarding an

(06:46):
opponent or when he's challenging shots at the rim. People
are shooting currently two point two percent better when he
when challenged by him. But it's interesting because the fact
of the Hornet situation, you almost look at his numbers
and stuff like that and you're wondering, Okay, we want
to see what it looks like winning organization or in
a better culture that a team with the Lakers who
have something to play for, whereas the Hornets, you don't

(07:08):
really know what's going on there right now. And what
the Lakers did end up sending out to the Hornets
was Dalton connect Cam Reddish, a twenty thirty pick swap
and a twenty thirty one first round pick unprotected. So
that's really the Lakers last true first round asset that
they have to move. So when you're looking at this
Laker team now, you're looking at a team that features Lebron, James, Luka, Dancic,

(07:30):
Austin Reeves, Ruey Hachimura, Mark Williams, Gabe Vincent, Jared Vanderbilt,
Jackson Hayes, and in terms of their rotation, I think
those are and Dori Anfony Smith, and I think that's
the most Those are the guys that would naturally take
up that they get most of the game time play

(07:51):
from an en n. I guess he can name Bronnie
shout out Brownnie. But I think when we're looking at that,
the Lakers from that move prove that with Luca being
a free agent after next season, they're pretty much putting
their chips in the corner now to say hey, or
putting them on the table to say that we want
to be a team. That obviously shows Luca that they're

(08:13):
wanting to make moves to try and win now. It's
not gonna sit there and rest under Laurels because the Lakers.
And it's funny, I've seen many memes on Twitter regarding
the Lakers now landing a center because when Anthony Davis
did the trade, it was that meme where the girls
at her desk like or when Luca asked for a center,
they're like, oh, yeah, sure, sir, yeah, anything you want.
And then when Anthony Davis was asking for a senator,

(08:34):
they're like, oh my gosh, hr, please arrest this man.
And I think naturally, the Lakers felt more comfortable investing
these assets to go and get that player that they
needed now as a lock threat for Luca who's verdict,
who has great verticality, who's great athleticism. The main worry
you have about Mark Williams this is health. But outside

(08:55):
of that, people were even talking about the fact that
his wingspan is longer than Victim Webinya. So when you're
when he shows up, he is a good player and
he's a good talent that doesn't need development on defensive
side of the ball, But paired with Luka Doncic and
Lebron James, there's some things that he can make happen.
And so now when you see the Lakers are now
putting their chips in the middle, they they now view

(09:16):
this team as actually being a team that they can
carry on for the future with a young big. And
it's funny because Ropelinka did make comments earlier in the
week talking about or I think it was right before
the r at the Lake Luca press conference, and he
was talking about the fact that the market for bigs
was slim and that there really wasn't a big on
the market that they could go get and he said

(09:37):
that if it was something that they felt like they
were gonna have to address in the offseason. And then
recently after the Mark Williams trade. He does talk about
the fact that, you know, he thought that was the scenario,
but then when an opportunity presents itself, So I'm assuming
when he said that, I was immediately my knight went
off and I was like, wait, did Charlotte call them
about trading Mark Williams and they wanted Dalton connect possible?

(10:00):
And then that first round pick. That's when my light
went off when he said that. But so this opportunity
then comes along, and naturally the Lakers with Lebron and
Ad Lebron at some point was going to retire, and
then you assumed the Ad was gonna be the focal point.
But I don't think at this juncture eight the guy
that affects winning to the point where the Lakers felt
like those picks were going to be irrelevant. I mean,

(10:21):
I think by the time twenty thirty one or twenty
twenty nine when it came around, the Lakers would have
or Anthony Davis would have been thirty seven twenty twenty nine. Yeah,
I think he would have been thirty seven and then
thirty nine. So yeah, those picks would were very valuable
at that point in time. But with Luca, that's a
whole different outlook. Now, So what do you think about

(10:42):
the trade that the Lakers made and some of the
background and with concerning the trade and then obviously getting
market willing is how do you think he helps the
team move forward with Luca Lebron and Austin Reeves and
the rest.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
When we talked about the trade, he was actually one
of the guys I was like, if I didn't think
he was touchable because Luca and not Luca, sorry LaMelo.
I thought that the combo of LaMelo, Brandon Miller and
Mark Williams were kind of like the building blocks of
your team. But I thought that was it was literally

(11:15):
like solid core, like you put that, you put that
team together, and down the road, maybe like about five
years from now, that team could be a team that's
a sitting atop the Eastern Conference. So when they when
they mentioned, oh he's a big that's you know, there's
there's still the big ones. They like, he's he's like,
he's an option, but there were shot he becomes available

(11:36):
and then clearly like two days later, they they create him,
uh Charlotte doing Charlotte things, you know. But and so
for me, I'm pretty high on Mark leaves. I think
there is a there's an effort issue, not issue. I
shouldn't think issue. It's not like it's not like uh

(11:57):
trying to think who who's Who's a player to him too,
It's not like DeAndre Ayton. Right where he's it was
like well documented like DeAndre Ayton had you know, he's
send up playing call of duty. There were stories coming
out constantly that he didn't care too much to practice
because not like that what Mark lives like. There are

(12:18):
times in the court where he kind of just fades
in and out, but like he for the most part,
he's there well when he's on the court. The other
other issue is the injury issues, which he has the
physiccent of his games. He has extended time where he
just he just don't get them, which is why I
can see why they moves off from them. But I
don't know, you get up on a twenty three year

(12:39):
old that step fits the timeline with your your other
twenty year old guys. I mean, I deal with the Lakers.
I mean that's just the you just get the perfect
syterpis that if he stays healthy, it's just you. That's
a trade. We visit in ten years ago, and like
what were they thinking creating this guy? Right, because now
it's like this guy could be the guy Luke runs
with for the rest of his career.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, I mean think about it. In some aspects, it
gives glimmers of the pau Gasol trade. Not I mean,
Powe was already a legit all star talent at the
time when the Lakers traded for him. I mean that
was a heist, right, But when the minute that the
Lakers landed Powell, everybody knew, oh my gosh, like what
what just happened? And people were confused because they knew

(13:19):
Powe was going to be the perfect player to play
next to Kobe Bryant. And so now you get Mark
Williams and you're seeing the timeline of and he's also
he's on he's on a cheap contract, right, I mean,
he's he's gonna have to get paid soon. But when
you're looking at his his he's still on his rookie deal.
And like you said, his timeline would have lined up
with LaMelo, And now he lines up perfectly with Luca

(13:40):
and with his athleticism and so on, if he can
stay healthy that and that's one of the big things
that Rob A Linka did speak to. He said that
through all the injury history, they they sorted it all
through it, and they went through it, and they said
that they weren't personally concerned about it. I don't, I
truly don't know what could what it could have been.
Like It's similar to the Maverick side of things, where
people are saying, well, what could it have been that

(14:01):
caused them to trade Luca. You sit there with Mark
Williams and you immediately look at his injuries. I mean,
I think in three seasons he's played eighty games total,
So I think for him his injury stuff was a
big deal, and then maybe his his learning of the defense.
But I think a young player on a bad team,
defense isn't necessarily number one thing. I'm gonna assume the
big man knows how to do. I mean, it normally
takes big men a couple like. Not every big man's

(14:24):
gonna come on the scene and be like Victor right
like those It does take big men years to learn
how to play defense in the NBA at a high
level and so on. So those are some of the
concerns that they've had with him. But it just does
bogle me what the Hornets are doing, because I don't
really understand what the direction is going they're going in here,
you're getting you're getting the draft pick that the Lakers

(14:47):
have in twenty thirty one, whatever that's worth. I guess
if Luca Stale stays on the team, Dalton Connect, and
then you're looking at a team where you have you're
featuring LaMelo, Dalton Connect, Brandon Miller, Miles Bridges and and
I don't, I just don't. I don't understand what they're
where they're going with what they were trying to do.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, so you have Lamello and you have Brandon Miller,
so you have your winning your three, if that's what
you think he's gonna play. But the thing is they
just drafted another three. That's the thing that I don't understand. Yeah,
is they drafted I'm not gonna try and figure out
the name. You're so honest with you. But he like
he's he's not big enough to play the fourties. He's

(15:27):
six eight to seven. And Brandon Miller is not big
enough to play the fourst he's six seven, two hundreds. Yeah,
so it's like you you have two threes. So it's like,
I guess the ideal was like Brandon Miller slides to
the two, right, but now you have going connect to
you playing at the two, and so it's like you

(15:52):
traded your again. And before that they also traded They
trained Nick richardson before that, Nick Richards, sorry, Nick Richards
before that. So it's like they didn't have a big already.
They were already kind of slim on the big. But
so when they traded Mark Richard Nick Richards, they had
Mark Williams and Taje Gibson who's like sixty seven years

(16:15):
old already, and then they treated Mark Williams for a guard.
And so I'm just like, so, who's your what you're
playing here?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Yeah, what's the game? It feels it's interesting because naturally
we always have those teams in the NBA that you
can always depend on sometimes having an asset like a
young asset. They'll keep the prime asset for Lord knows
however long that prime asset can stay there or was
willing to stay there. I don't know if they've had
a player in years that's been as good as LaMelo,
but I can't remember the last person that they had

(16:54):
from Jump and I think I think LaMelo is his
I think his talent potential is better than Kemba. So
Kemba is.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Not Yeah, easily, let's not.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Let's not ar yeah, because I know some people are
gonna say Keimba, but that I'm thinking that he's on
another level than I was. Like, LaMelo is literally a
perennial All Star caliber player. I believe so.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
So I want to talk about the real quickly. So
the guy that did draft at six, he's he has
played the majority of this is the time. That's powerful.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Okay, nice nice clarification for it. Actually a nice clarification.
That's why I'm just a bit a gas by. And honestly,
it's a come up for the Lakers right like this is.
We went from a week ago when this trade initially
happened to I was I was notably saying that I
think the Lakers are punting this season, and by no

(17:45):
means doesn't seem like they're trying to do that. I
feel like they're trying to field a team immediately that
can go and if they get the right matchup, this
team can go and win. Possibly. I don't think anybody
wants to see the Lakers in a playoff matchup, it's
always one of those when you're playing against super computers
like Lebron and Luca. Then you have another ball handler
off off ball guy like Austin Reeves, and then you

(18:07):
just have Mark Williams and hopefully he can somehow comprehend
the concept of defense in the playoffs because he's gonna
be playing a lot better bigs in the playoffs than
what you normally go to from a night to night
basis in Charlotte and the East Conference. So I think
that outside of that though, the concerns though, I do
think the Laker team, this Laker team can make some noise.
I mean, what do you think do you think matchup wise,

(18:30):
they can give people problems if depending on the team.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
I still think they could smoked by the Nuggets. I
still think they get smoked by okay See. You know,
we kind of talked about this the other day, were
kind of like, yeah, I do the mainly mainly mainly
because I think I think okay See's just the more

(18:57):
complete team and I think they have the defense to
kind to deal with with either a Luca or Lebron.
I don't think you shut down. You don't shut down
either those players, But I think they have enough that
they can deal with them. They can deal with the interior,
they can they can stop other players, even like even
last year, like again mav got got saved by PJ.

(19:20):
Washington's heart doing like the one thing he was the worst.
He was the worst corner three point shooter in the league,
and he just happened to like just not miss in
that series. Yeah, Like the game plan to me was
like they played the perfect game players and they took

(19:41):
away Kyrie and again PJ just happened to just go crazy.
And I think they have the length and I think
they have the defense that they they will slow down.
Either they will they would choose to slow down either
Luca or Lebron.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Though the more I've been, I mean, Lebron's looked great recently,
yeah right, yeah, And granted he's older, so I don't
know how he finishes out the season, but with how
he's looking right now, and then you bring in Luca,
so a lot of that load and pressure comes off
of Lebron's shoulders. Dude, I I definitely think that even

(20:20):
watching the Thunder struggled with Luca with just Kyrie and
Kyrie wasn't killing them last year, and that's.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
What I was saying. But again, that was the game.
It was. It was we're gonna focus, We're gonna hard
focused Luca. We're gonna hard focus Kyrie.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
But that's that's my because.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
He was bad at him and Lucas can get his
what he did and we don't feel compting with that.
And the problem was that, you know, like I said,
p J did but he was but disposed it.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
But my that's my my point though I don't think
they could. They can't do that to Luca or Lebron, Like,
who do you?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I think you you can feel that Leron, I think
a forty year old Lebron is not. It's not the same.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
It's not the same. But I what were you? That's
this is the problem though, because are you gonna put
your best defender on Lebron or Luca? Because if you
put your bat, you put lou Dor, you put Lebron. Okay,
so then who you're gonna have guard Lebron?

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Different people? You didn't do what they did what they
did like they did Kyrie last year.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
They but that's what I'm saying, it doesn't work with
Lebron though that that won't work Lebron Lebron. I think
about this every single time the Lakers have lost the
playoff series. We're not sitting here saying Lebron should have
done this. It was never like somebody doing something physical.
We've seen like the Nuggets put Aaron Gordon on Lebron.
We've seen other teams put all these different guys on Lebron,

(21:43):
and yes it does. You can see he has to
work harder for it, but they don't release. But that's
what But that's what I'm saying, though even he has
to work harder. There's nobody, none of the guys on
the Thunder team that I'm looking at the biggest key
factors to me is that they have a rim protector.
That's the biggest thing to me. That they have somebody
at the rim that deters Lebron from possibly getting to

(22:04):
the rim. But outside of that, if you don't have
anybody that can go match him and physicality, dude's gonna
put you in the post all day.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
I just what the post all day?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Why not?

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Because you're justnna have, you know? But around what I mean,
they'll have they'll have Chet Roman and they'll have they'll
take away the lot from Mark Williams.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yes, but then, but what I'm saying is, because think
about thinking about this.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Goes back to the whole point of what they did
last year. You don't somebody else to beat you hitting three.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
Now that I can see. If you're just talking about
bringing smooth double teams and you're hoping that others beat you,
that's a possibility. But in terms with Kyrie, that wasn't that.
That wasn't the game plan they had with Kyrie. I
mean it was. I guess it's some degree. But when
you're just throwing others at Kyrie and he's he's actually
shooting bad, that's different than Lebron. Like, Lebron is still
dissecting you, but you're not necessarily stopping it because Lebron's

(23:00):
still Even if you he goes and posts you up
in the paint, you have to bring help. And then,
however the ball rotates or whatever, the Lakers are gonna
get quality looks from there. And then even if you
don't bring the help, Lebron has his turnaround fade away
that he goes to or whatever he wants to do
in the pot. I mean, he's been money on his
turnaround fade away lately, especially if you have an undersized
defender on him. I think if the match That's why

(23:21):
I say the matchups make this so interesting because.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
I don't think they're good enough to be I mean,
I still.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Think okay, See's the best team in the in the conference,
but it just it becomes way more interesting because now
think about it, that that was the main point and
contention of what the struggles were, and then Luca went,
like you said, PJ went crazy and Luca went Now,
now you're in a scenario where Luca is not worrying
about Lebron not showing up unless Lebron gets hurt or
he just knock on Wood or some reason. Lebron just

(23:50):
also falls off with just it just hasn't happened. It
just it's not it's not a reality.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
It never never happens. It does happen.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
That's true. That's true. But there's one dude that we
can all all betting our money on. Unless we're just
gonna say that one of the factors that the Thunder
should go into the scouting report and say Lebron is
gonna fall off, I'm gonna say that's not on the report,
and they're figuring out.

Speaker 2 (24:13):
Didn't dominate the series of okay, see you last year?

Speaker 1 (24:16):
No, but no. But what I'm saying is that now
you have another dude and like off Off playing off
of you, that makes the defense have to because I mean,
he was going up against their best defender and and
lou Dor he's still getting this year, he is still
getting loud Door. But I'm saying off a Luca Lebron
pick and roll garden that is going to be so

(24:38):
much more difficult in the playoffs versus what they were
running last year, even with him and Gafford or him
and Lively.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So I still think I still think Okay,
I mean to be fair, I like, I think they
get dominated. I don't think they get dominated in the series.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
They just interesting. Bro, when you have two dudes that
are six eight, that are so smart at basketball, what'd
you say?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I don't think that, okay, see match will be that interesting?
Only being so real with you, I think it would be.
I don't think it would be. I think it's one
of those things on paper it looks like it would be,
but then when you actually play that that series, I
think that's a plot game to game that most series.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
I just I just think it comes down now the
player that obviously I think would also have to step
up and that I could see, okay, see really taking
out the series of Austin Reeves.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, he gets completely, he gets shot down that series.
Let me, it's so real.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
That's the that's the player.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
I'm I'm very the problem. The problem I have with
that series is that I think Austin Reeves has a
bad series, and I think Mark Williams has a bad series. Yes,
I agree, and I think that's the that's the main issue.
So it's like now it's now take me back. If
you say that ten years ago, I'm getting ten years
ago bron I'd be like, oh yeah, okay, I take

(25:48):
I would take that. I would take laters, dude.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
If you've got ten years ago bron A d is
still on the team.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Probably you know, like this in terms of this series,
like I don't know if it's a little too like
it's just it's just you're you're alling a lot on
bron and Luca, the Kerrey to the to the Crown play.
He can't and it's like it's one of those things
like if you it's kind of like the matt the
most series was the last year the Nuggets, the Nuggets

(26:16):
and RULD series last year. You run that shase sometimes out.
I think the Nuggets win that series majority of the time.
What if you do catch them in like a couple
like fifty to fifty games with your player, you just
have the better players and he just happens to go
off and he's still the game or two things can happen.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, I agree, I get that. I agree with that.
I think that. To me, that's why I say the
thunder will still win the series because I think their
best scoring comes on the wings obviously, and the Lakers
are just deficient in particularly point guard, the defense and
guard defense, and so I think and I don't think
Mark Williams is developed enough to really despite him having

(27:00):
this crazy reach, a nice vertical, all that stuff, it's it's.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
All it's not there yet. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Just development is not there yet. So I think they
can be exposed there. But I think the Lakers just
does make them way more way more interesting going into
the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
The way I think we talked about it when we
talked about it the other day, and this was didn't
through The original point was there's the two tiers. I think,
okay see, and I think the Nuggets are a tier
a tier in a two tiers above the other other
teams in the in the West. Yeah, I just don't
think the Lake again, Jokis matchup is just it's just
st terrible matchup. Right. But after that where you kind

(27:38):
of get like the the Houston, the Grizzlies, and I
think the mass will go here in this in this
kind of bracket as well. Lakers, No, I mean, anything
can happen.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, wild wild West.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Like right now, right now, they're their matchup would be
the Rockets, and I'm like, Rockets easily. Oh yeah, the
rock could playoff, particularly play off good to be honest.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
I mean I was, I was. Even there's still the
Rockets still have that thing where down the stretch of
a lot of games, I'm not really sure who they're
going to. Like, I see them, you see a man,
a man Thompson trying to make that be that guy.
But there's times where it's just like a cluster duck
and I'm just like, dude, I don't know what these
guys got going on.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, I mean they're I mean they just lost man
They lost man hold on one, two, three, four, five, six.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Yeah, I mean they lost to the Mavericks Today. A
d goes out in the third quarter and they could
knockload that gap. Yeah, not at all, not at all.
So it's gonna be interesting. The West is always gonna
be interesting. But moving to another team in the West, actually,
let's talk about the Spurs trading for de Aaron Fox.

(28:55):
So the Spurs get back the Aaron Fox, Jordan McLaughlin,
and then the Kings get in this deal. This is
so funny. The Kings get Zach Lavine, City Kissoko, the
twenty twenty five first round pick from the Spurs that
comes via the Hornets, twenty twenty seven first round pick
that's the Spurs pick, the twenty thirty one first round

(29:18):
pick from the Spurs that is the Timberwolves pick, twenty
twenty five second round pick from the Bulls, twenty twenty
eight first second round pick from the Nuggets, and a
twenty twenty eight second round pick from the Bulls. Then
the Bulls in this deal get Zach Collins, Kevin Herder,
Trey Jones, and a twenty twenty five first round pick
from the Spurs. So this deal for one, right, but

(29:42):
I don't want to spend too much time on it.
But this is just so funny to me. I just
don't understand what the Bulls are doing. I don't understand
how the Bulls don't. The twenty twenty five first round
pick you get is the Spurs pick for Zach Levine,
who's actually been pretty good this year, who's actually like

(30:03):
an actual All Star caliber player this season. I know,
no Bulls Zach Colvian has been good this year, and
then you get back, you get back Zach Collins, Kevin
Urder and Trey Jones for him. I just feel like
that's such a squandering of an asset if I ever
seen one. And I don't know, man, there's times I
just it truly is an organization that's immortalized more by

(30:24):
a player than anything the franchise has done in the
last two decades almost, and then even outside of that
that's some they're mortalized by another player in Derrick Rose.
So I just the Bulls really just put me at
a loss, man. I actually don't know what they got
going on, and they're in their franchise.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
The problem. I mean, they just won't rebuild. That's just
vir genuine. The problem is that you refuse to just
tear it down and rebuild it. Right now, they have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
eight nine guard. It's on the team, and seven of
them are like are point guards. Basically, they extended Loanzoo,

(31:10):
they traded they so they said Giddy is gonna be
their future. He's their future centerpiece. What I like.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
I like Giddy, But if he's your center pie, the
problem is your centerpiece your centerpiece.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I mean he's a centerpiece in the sense of like
he's gonna be like your third guy, right, which is fine.
I think that's fine. I think he's I think he'd
be a good third piece. I think he's a good
like third piece, like good six man off the bench,
first guy off the bench, whatever. You know, he went
on in the air right now where you can have
like three superstars, so like him having your third He's
not a max guy, so I think he fits perfectly

(31:47):
fine with that, right. And then you have you have
Kobe White, who is good but like he's also in
that same realm of like he's probably best at your
first guy off the bench. Yeah, and he's a free

(32:08):
agent after next year, you have Ale Desumo, who is
also seems to be like a six man kind of guy,
who's also a free agent after next year. You traded
for Trey Jones, who's a free agent after this year. Yeah,

(32:30):
the free agent.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
After this year, and one first round pick, one pick.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
Yeah, and then you get one first round pick out
of that. And so it's like, don't get it. You
have like all these guys who do the same thing,
and like none of them aren't like elite level talent guy, Like,
there's none of these guys that I look at and
I'm like, yeah, man, that guy's going to change the franchise.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Yeah, this is just what the Bulls have been. I
and then you the fact that they don't even get
the Hawks pick in this deal. I'm I I just
I just no way.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
There there's no way getting pick. Yeah, I mean what
they thought. They're not they're not moving off that pick.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Oh yeah, I mean the Spurs, No, They're they're sitting
in gold right now with having the Hawks twenty twenty
five pick. That that pick is just a man because
even talking about some of the moves the Hawks made,
it's you get to it with and this even we'll
talk about that later. But I'm surprised. I mean, I
guess naturally the Spurs had leverage because the Aaron Fox

(33:44):
was saying that he wanted to go to San Antonio,
and with him being a free agent next year, the
Spurs were in a situation where, Okay, well, if you
we're not we're not a win now team by any means, right,
this is this is a team that we're still young,
we're developed our young guys, and so if you don't
want to trade Deeron Fox here, then we can. We'll

(34:05):
just wait for him to become a free agent and
just sign him out right. And I guess in that
in that situation, and I don't think that I don't.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
I have no problem with how de Aaron Fox got
him out himself out of Sacramento. You know, I know
some people get mad, like some people are upset with
how Jimmy got out of Miami and whatnot. But I
don't think there's any I think the way de Aeron
Fox handled it, he didn't he didn't start well, he
didn't start doing antics. But there was a little bit
of pouting going on, but he didn't start do the

(34:32):
crazy antics. I guess you could say that with.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
A guy who stuck it out with a franchise. Who
I mean, there's so good he said, This is like
they're just franchises that just exist to be farms for
other teams. Yeah, pretty much, and that's that's the king man. Like, yeah,
I mean he stuck it out. I don't know, eight years, eight,
seven and a half years. Really again seven and a

(34:58):
half years. He got one one playoff appearance. Yeah, yeah,
he one one playoff appearance and was on the route
to make it not to not make the playoffs again
and going into his prime basically, like, I don't know, man,
it's just I don't know. What do you do?

Speaker 1 (35:20):
I like the deal for san Antonio a lot. You
keep every you keep pretty much all your young pieces.
I mean that it is this exceptional how they're able
to keep everything made. Oh yeah, you don't have to
trade SoCon, you know, you don't have to trade Devin
Vassel Stephan Castle. Obviously that probably was a non starter
for them.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
But you said he's untouchable.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Oh they did.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, they said he's not. He's not he's not unstable.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Oh wow, they know, Okay, yeah, they know, they're they're
obviously they're on game, so they know they have all
these young pieces, and then even if negotiations were to
go any type of way with one of these guys
coming up, they have like they have the pieces to
essentially mitigate all that. And so San Antonio is just
set up so well. It's just crazy, man. Good good

(36:05):
organizations just positioned themselves in just so many different ways,
and it's naturally interesting how you see the different orbits
of a different type of good organization. I put in
air quotes because the Lakers are like the good organization
that just so happens to be in one of the
best cities in the world and one of them. But listen,
listen to what I was gonna That's why I said
air quotes, because they're just one of the organizations that

(36:27):
get so lucky time and time again. I would say
the Lakers will were well run from like obviously mid nineties,
well honestly Kareem through Kareem Magic, through Kobe Shack and
then you had the down Kobe years, which was naturally
gonna happen with the tumultuous because some of the things,

(36:47):
some of these things are like players burned, and I
don't know, like with Kobe and Shaks Beef, I don't
think you couldn't have kept those two together. But naturally,
then somehow landing that deal for Powgasol's crazy, and then
I don't know, I mean, I guess then when you
go I think Chris Paul Tree would have been insane
if they could have got it done. But then that

(37:09):
gets nicked, and then you go through the down years
of the Kobe era, and then after that point, I
think after the point when Mitch cup Check left and
then they had that whole feud between the genie and
her brother from that point on, and then Mitch cup
Check gets fired. The Lakers have been like it's been
a lucky franchise, as you're lucky to be the Lakers

(37:31):
because Lebron just decided to come there in twenty eight,
twenty nineteen, and then that just saves them. It just totally.
It gives you your next star. And it's not like
you did all this to do it right. And I
guess natually they were actually able to draft some good
pieces that turned into Anthony Davis. I'll give them that credit.
And then you go and get Anthony Davis, and then

(37:52):
this whole Luca falls in your lap. But then you
have these organizations like the Spurs who even in the
transition of power where you have the stuff happened from
Tim Duncan you go to Kawhi and then this stuff
happens with Kawhi, then you go in this era and
then I mean, I guess all this does naturally take luck.
I mean granted natural wheeling and dealing in terms of
getting first round picks. That's just smart organizational utilization of

(38:14):
your assets and then not taking on bad contracts. Like
I look at the Spurs whole roster. I don't see
a bad contract in sight. And that's one of the
biggest things about being a good organization because so many
bad organizations you look at them and you're like, oh,
they're tied to this guy for years, and it's like
why who, why would you give that guy that contract?

Speaker 2 (38:31):
And not even bad contracts. The crazy thing is so like,
let's say in all season they want to make a trade.
It's like you have Bastles who makes twenty seven mil
next year, the Kelvin Johnson who makes the I would
just trying to make they make seventeen. You have Harrison
who makes nineteen these are all just filler, just filler

(38:52):
trade like you can just you can just package these
together and make the trade for another guy if you
want to.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, yep. And that's just what sets them apart, Like
the Spurs are always in that position to make those
deals and whatever.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Granted, this the funny enough, this the Aaron Fox trade
is uncharacteristic of what the Spurs have done because you
look back at a lot of what the Spurs have,
like a lot of their pieces they get are homegrown
talent and whatnot. But I I would like, I like
Fox because I think Fox fits what the Spurs culture
is in terms of how Fox has handled himself in interviews,

(39:29):
how he's even when he handled the trade requests. I
don't think Fox did things that were that you wouldn't
assume of a Spurs player like Kawhi was probably the
biggest deviation from a Spurs player, especially on his way out,
But up until that point, Kawhi seemed to fit the
Spurs culture perfectly. I mean, the dude just didn't.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Talk or anything. I mean even even during the whole thing.
I mean, I mean, the whole thing was he wasn't
talking you in months without hearing anything about.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
So I even even the things that that came out,
it wasn't it wasn't him. It was like his agent
because it was like his uncle.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
I think that his uncle.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
Wasn't like Kawhi.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
It was the one thing any things, it was like
I mean, now maybe he was just talking to his uncle,
which probably, but like it was his uncle was the
one talking. It wasn't why the one you know, you know,
make me, you know, getting going out there and making
statements and stuff like that. So even even Kauai even
I would say, it was still like it was still
like it was still spurs at even on his way out.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, I think that's naturally because funny enough, I'm working
I was working on a video script. I'm still gonna
put that video out about I wish I could have
seen LaMelo and Victor Wee Beyonma play together. But Mello
is literally the least spur player culture guy that I
can even think off that of my head.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
That's why it was just so perfect.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Man would have burned the house down, bro, no media.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Training, flashy you and just you went so perfect next
to them.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
It would have been comical. I think I would have
liked the Fox. I like Fox with the Spurs, but
I think I like the Fox trade more. I think
that Fox is still in this what we're about to
be in his athletic prime is in terms of age,
about to be twenty seven or so, I think seven now, Okay,
So I like Fox way more. If he can get
I don't know, we're too many years in for you
to be shooting thirty two percent from three dogs like we.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
I mean, it's a three que career. He's not. He's
not probably not going to be a three point shooter.
There's just reality of it.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
And I feel like that's but if he can, if
he could become a good free three point shooter, that's
the aspect of his game. I think if you pair
that with Wemby, that's that's killer right there.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
But I think it doesn't matter as much because Wemby
is the least three quint shuter. Yeah, people will say,
oh he's but he's thirty three. Listen, he's the least three. Question. Sure,
the percentage he takes bad he does. He definitely takes
God af he takes God all the threes. But he

(42:09):
is a good three point two. I guess it's like
if it isn't a great three point shoter, and it's like,
you still have to respect it. You can't just leave
the air and the wide open. Because he does have
nights like it's like he still had Like last night
he shot forty the other's the other night he shot
four sevens. Like so he he he suffer respect. He

(42:31):
can't just leave them wide open for three And yeah,
last year he could shoot thirty seven percent, so you
know if he if he's just thirty five ish, he'll
be fine. I think it's okay. He doesn't need to
be a knockdown stirt, he just needs to be a
respectable one. And you have five guys in the workers
can all shoot because you always have Wombi's gonna need

(42:53):
a team that can all shoot pretty much basically, so
you'll have three you have to minimum three on that
you have minimum three outside of Wimby and then Winby himself,
so you always have like four of the three point
shooters not horribly concerned about boxes three point shots the
and then also we were trying to talk about this before,
where with Wimby being as good as he is, he

(43:16):
like it doesn't really matter what your timeline is, because
like you're trying to like you're you're you're trying to win.
Kind of assume that with Winby because he's that good.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
So like a year, a year or two from now,
like you're talking about, we're trying to get into contention Rotilin. Yeah,
so dearon Fox being twenty eight going on, you know,
in a year or two could be twenty nine, twenty eight,
twenty nine, thirty. Still it's still in his crime coming

(43:48):
out of just like maybe coming out of the trome
just a little bit. But you're you're like, Okay, we
can win, and we can we are trying to put
a team together second win at the point in time. Yeah,
and then I guess we need to look at it
from the King's point of view. I don't know what
they're doing. I'm gonna be so real trade for him.

(44:08):
I think it's awful.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, the Kings are cooked, man.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
They now have just four guys on the court at
all times who are all offens no defense kind of guys.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
They built, They built the Bulls West Coast. I mean,
I just got the marts in there now too, So
they did.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, I guess though, right, they just did. They just
got everybody from the Bulls and we're just like, yeah,
we're bringing these guys over here, but like, I just
don't understand, like they they don't have a point of guards.
But then I guess they're they're like, you know what
we got in the league Monk and the Martin ros
who were both too good playmakers, and they're like, we're
just gonna run with that.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I guess, yeah, naturally that that totally looks like what
the game plan is.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
I'm just I mean, unless Ellis plays a bunch of this,
they have pretty much Murray playing defense, and you have
a thirty six year old and Marta Rusen playing defense,
and Zach Lavine is not a defensive guy playing defense,
and the bonus who's they were already bad defensively, they
got worse on that.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah, I don't get it. I mean, that's why I
was so surprised that the though the Hawks pick was
not in here or I mean, I guess this naturally
part of the part of this package comes from the balls,
and I guess they did get the twenty twenty five
first round pick. That's gonna be the Hornets pick. But
I don't know, man, I sometimes I'm just baffled because.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
The protected there not even getting it.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Oh yees' right? Wow, hmmm, well they better hope A
lot of.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Thing is the bluest team up, this team, this team is.
I don't even I don't know if this this even makes,
if this even make the play in.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I mean, right now, they're tenth, so they would be
in the plane right now, unless you you're your betting
they fall out and the Spurs crawl in.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
How far back of the Spurs are you looking at
the standing right now?

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:14):
A how far back of the Spurs?

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Spurs are a loss behind the the Kings. The Kings, well,
but the three they are three wins back the.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Overda as long as it's not looking crazy like six
game back or something like that, they'll over and then.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
But the Spurs are behind the Warriors, though the Warriors
are tied with the Kings for twenty five at the
ten spot.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
No, yeah, don't no, they're not. I don't even they playing.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Then you don't think the Spurs do it? Or sorry, sorry,
you don't make think Sacramento does it.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
I don't think they're playing that.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yeah, I think they fall out, they just.

Speaker 2 (46:53):
Blow it up because the teams have going to do anything.
They're never gonna have to blow it up and give
away these pieces for pretty much nothing because.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
The fire sale bro it always comes for these bad teams.
They It's so weird because these teams can end up drafting.
Like before we even started recording, we were talking about
the fact that these guys drafted both the Aaron Fox
and Tyrese. Haliburton felt like they had to get rid
of Tyres because they had the Arran and then you
end up I don't even remember the asset they got

(47:19):
for Tyres, but then now you're in a theis yeah, okay,
so but what was the Did they get a pick
for that too though I remember off the top of
my head. But okay, so you get Sabonis, you pair
them up with with Darran and then naturally at the
time they went and got Harrison Barnes to be that

(47:41):
wing guy the other wing way before that, before the
Haliburton trade. Yeah they had before Okay, so naturally then
you're that's the that's your team, are you saying?

Speaker 2 (47:57):
He went to Dallas and he got traded to No,
he signed, the signed.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
And he was there for so he was there, yeah,
for a few years and then leading into the Sabonis
and Fox era. Right, yeah, okay, so see we're trying
to remember a journeyman's journey too much, but too much.
But so then you have that, you have that, and
you make that one run, that one year that even

(48:28):
to your estimation when we were off off Mike saying
that they overachieved entirely and then they get bounced out
in that first round by the Warriors. And that was
a Warriors team funny enough that I think that was
the one of the first years that we were like, okay, yeah,
these guys, these guys are declining, and it was it
was entirely that was the I think that was the
Warriors team that I think they went to seven games

(48:49):
with seven yeah, so, and it took so much for
them just to get out of that series. But that
then you realize, okay, if you're losing to that, because
then the Lakers went and played that Warriors team and
owned the Warriors and then went on to get swept
by Denver. And so that's one of those situations where
you're looking at it and you're like, okay, so you

(49:10):
haven't been back to the playoffs. Since then and now
you're training for Zach Levine in a weird I don't
even understand, man, I don't know. Maybe the picks entice them.
Maybe they were just like, we'll take the contract. They
know where they're going, and they're like, we'll take the contract.
But then it's weird because they're not They didn't move.
I don't know, man. Maybe maybe they just want to
be the home of contracts and draft picks or something.

(49:30):
Maybe they realize that's where they're gonna have to go.
Because even though the picks they have, I don't like either.
Because you have the twenty twenty seven first round pick
from the Spurs, what's that gonna be worth?

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Gottam Okay, So here's here's what I will say. If
you're looking at it that way. So twenty twenty seven,
you look at it and you say, Okay, where's Grizzlebe's contract.
I think it has twenty twenty seven that ends in
twenty seven. I think the mark comes up the books
in twenty seven. Let me see Damar Dues comost the

(50:04):
books in twenty seven. The bonus. I think it's signed
through twenty seven. I think he's signed in twenty eight.
He's signed to twenty eight. So are you looking at
it that way? You can say, Okay, twenty seven we
clear the books off, but twenty seven you have twentys

(50:24):
going into twenty Going to twenty eight, you'll have the
bonus monk and you have Devin Carter's contract is a
team option. So like the books are clear going into
that year, you just hit the reset. You just I
guess the what you do for three years is doing
nothing for three years and then reset in twenty seven. Yeah,

(50:45):
even which I but.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
They're not even sitting on a treasure trove of picks.
I mean, twenty twenty five, you have your own pick,
is one of the top one to twelve protected, you
have thirteen to thirty, and if it's thirteen to thirty,
it goes to Atlanta, then Charlotte. If it's you have it.
If it's in the fifteen to thirty via New York
and that was from another trade, then twenty twenty six

(51:08):
you have it. It's top ten protected. That's your only
pick that you have. Then then you have your own
in twenty twenty seven as well a San Antonio's. Then
you have your own pick through twenty twenty eight to
twenty thirty one, or you can swap with san Antonio
and it's like they're not gonna want to swap between
san Antonio and twenty thirty one. Yeah, that's why I
always find these trades. These trades are always so funny

(51:28):
because you see every single time it's like, oh, you
get all these pick swaps. It's just like, Okay, what
are we giving up? Like are we helping the other
team that aren't they getting a good player back? So
what did the pick swaps matter to us?

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (51:45):
This sounds like it's Sometimes it's this stuff that makes
trades sound so much better than they actually are. And
I don't know, man at Sacramento's just cooked. But I
I think that for the Spurs. We did talk on
the last podcast a little bit what the prospect will
look like if they got Dear and Fossil.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
We didn't.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
We didn't need to spend too much time on it.
But even watching them play a few games, I have
liked how deeron Fox. Like I watched their game against Atlanta.
I liked seeing Fox really play. I mean, he was
one of the best clutch players in the league. I
think it was last season. So seeing him really play
that role for the Spurs in that Atlanta game was
cool to see, even though Atlanta was getting trounced and

(52:19):
then they made a comeback. It was cool to see.
But I also sit here wonder at times, like I'm like, Okay,
what's this team gonna play like? Because I saw a
little bit like Daran's still learning the offense, so you're
not gonna see perfect cohesion basketball. He's out there just
pretty much playing YMCA basketball and he just doesn't know
that all the sets in the plays. But I'm like,

(52:40):
we're gonna pick up this pace because the Spurs team's
been a team that's played relatively slow because Chris Paul's
been their main point guard. And so now that you
have the Arran, that's a dude that can get from
end to end in seconds. And so now especially if
you have you have a young team, so you can
go up and down as fast as possible, up and
down the floor. So it's gonna be interesting to see

(53:01):
how this team changes their playstyle such to incorporate Deer
and Fox being on the team. Because you don't drive.
When you don't drive forty miles per hour, if you're
in a Lambeau on the on like a racetrack. This
doesn't make sense.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
So well, the good thing is they have young team
they can play fast with if they if they need to,
depending on the type of team you want to play with. Yeah,
and then like you have you have times where you can,
like the women's on the court, I guess you wudn't
play a little bit lower. And then if he goes
to the bench and you want to stagger with with Fox,

(53:35):
you can put him Vassal, you can put Castle Fox Vassal,
Sohan and who's who's their backup? Who's the back of Fox?
So they trade Coolins? Whoever's gonna be their back of five?
Oh no, it's gonna they trade.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
They treated Collins, didn't they right, Yeah, they traded Zach Holins.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Yeah, so whoever gonna be there back of five? You
can you can run with that team?

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah, yeah you could. Again, I did see that much happening.
They did stagger some of the minutes there in that
Atlanta game.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
So they actually still stagger the minutes. Still, they'll still
like get there and his his you know, they'll play
fast with him on the bench. Coming with the winby
on the bench and then when the women from Jack
and they'll just play a little bit slower. Okay.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
So it's funny because so much of these trades covers
a lot of players are going West. Man is truly
the toughest conference. It is unobserved. Yeah, Like it just
makes no sense. The West Conference is so tough. So
now the next train we talk about is the Warriors
getting Jimmy Butler. And it's interesting because this trade had

(54:49):
so many so much fallout from it that affected other teams,
like it affected the Suns and affected obviously Miami and
going to State. And at one point it sounded like
even before go to say was was finalizing the deal
for Jimmy, that it was they were really trying to
heat and Sons were really trying to figure out a
way that they could make a trade happen where Jimmy
was gonna end up in Phoenix because Jimmy, that's where

(55:10):
Jimmy wanted to be. Kevin Durant was gonna end up
in Golden State. It sounded like at one potential time
and Miami was gonna get I don't know, I don't
I don't know who Miami would have gotten. I guess Bradley. No, no,
it would have been Bradley would have been I don't know.
Miami would have got somebody some something in that three

(55:32):
three way trade because.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, that's how the Wasn't that how the contracts were
gonna work.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
I don't know, because what Phoenix has two players going
out in that scenario, So how does that? Oh no, no, no, sorry,
Miami would have gotten Wiggins and they would have got
the deal they got, but instead of Kevin Durant would
have got went to Instead of Jimmy Butler going to

(55:58):
Golden State, it would have been and Kevin Durant going
to go to State. No, I'm saying Jimmy, Jimmy, Kevin
Durant would have went to Golden State, Jimmy Butler would
have went to Phoenix, and then the Golden State package
would have came to Miami. Oh yeah, okay, okay, yeah,
so you're right. Yeah, so that's how that would have worked.
But because Kevin Durant didn't want to go back to
Golden State and he made it adamant that he wanted

(56:20):
he didn't want to go back. Yeah, it was crazy
how much? And I mean, I guess I get it.
I do get it because I think that Kevin Durant
is seeing a certain type of way amongst his peers
and by a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah, and people were like, oh, he hates Draymond and
Draymond's reason why? And I'm like, I mean, like, I
think that that does play a part.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
I think it definitely plays a part part of it.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, definitely, I mean yeah, But like when the Warriors won,
they Warriors fans were laughing talking about how, oh you
need Steph Curry. Curry doesn't need you. The Warriors don't
need you. You need the war Years before that, he didn't.
They all just bring his count This ring is as

(57:05):
good as does it mean nothing? You need to go
win one on your own, blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
So it's like why would he? I don't know, it's
just kind of like why would he want to? Kevin
Raan's on line, Kevin Rean's all the stuff, he sees
all of that, So to him, why would he want
to go there? He wins again, he still doesn't get
respected for it.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
I think this would have been different, though, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
OK, Clinton might have been. Kevin Durant is like why
why didn't go through all that.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
I mean, I agree that I understand what his mindset
was if he didn't want to go back. For one,
I definitely think that Draymond, the Draymond piece, played a
role in it, but without a question. But then I
also think that the last time he was there, and
I think Kevin Durant it's been reported that he has
a weird relationship with Steve Kerr, right, I mean, I
know Steve Kerr was the coach of the Olympic team,
but there has been stuff about him and Steve Kerr's
relationship that was a bit weird, and I think that

(57:54):
there was something about how I mean, Kevin Durant has
had a weird thing with the step with the Warriors
front office and the coaches, namely Steve Kerr, because of
how they handled the Draymond Green situation. Everybody. I remember
when he talked about it, he felt like everybody just
tried to kind of act like it was just a
thing like Steve Kerr or sorry, Draymond got his suspension
and then everybody was just Okay, it just swept it

(58:17):
under the rug. And he was like, so we're just
not going to talk about this and it just he
said from that point on, it was just a weird
energy that was carried around for the Warriors organization with
him and so on from that point. So it is
weird how Draymond just always ends up being this guy
that just they can't win without him. But at the

(58:37):
same time, you could argue that he cuts their winning
time frame shorter because he just if he doesn't get
suspended in Game five and that twenty sixteen finals.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Maybe you know, I who knows the game after that?
So who knows?

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah, I mean it's true, but they had they had
momentum going back home.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
Yeah don't.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I know you you're a krav saying, so yeah, who
cares you fuck? But it is that aspect of it.
It was interesting. So now Jimmy Butler goes to Golden
State and the full trade details is that Jimmy Butler
goes to the Golden State, the Golden State Warriors get
two second round picks from the Heat. Then they also

(59:22):
get cash consideration from the Heat. The Heat get Andrew Wiggins,
Kyle Anderson, Davion Mitchell back and a twenty twenty five
first round protected pick from the Warriors. Then, because this
was like a five team trade. The Jazz get Josh
Richardson from the Heat, kJ Martin from the Pistons through
the Sixers, a twenty twenty eight second round pick from
the Pistons, a twenty thirty one second round pick from

(59:43):
the Heat, and cash consideration from the Heat. Then the
Pistons get Lindy Walter Waters the third from the Warriors,
Dennis Schroeder from the Jazz via the Warriors, and then
twenty thirty one second round pick via the Warriors. And
then the Raptors get PJ. Tucker from the Jazz in
a second round pick via the Heat and cash consideration

(01:00:03):
is and this is just this is just a small,
small a side. Dennis Schroder man, I feel for this guy.
My man literally compared this was a stupid comment from
him in my in my opinion, but he compares NBA
trades and trade deadline to modern slavery. And I could
do not They said, bet traded that man within like hours.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
You see you see a post on on their Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Yeah, because they posted a post thanking everybody, like all
the players that traded have been sent away. He's like, damn,
I can't forget my own post.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I was like what it's like, Bro, you were there
for ten games?

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Like I'm like, Bro, Dennis Schroeder has a picture about
I don't know man, maybe like did Dennis Schroder win
a ring with any of these teams?

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Am I missing something here?

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
Didn't We talk about him the last podcast too, where
we were talking about I can on the fact we
were just talking about him in general. When we talking
about him, we were saying that he was one of
the guys that were like when Jeff p left, everybody
was like, man child, Jeff, you know, we need to
respect what he did with his time at the Hawks,

(01:01:23):
bah blah, and everybody was saying their goodbyepost this man
the same. They didn't put it out congratulations posed, don't
put it out of think Jeff posts he said, if
my time think you I was ready to play, And
it was like, Bro, you can't say, at least like
you know in pretendent, like you're sad he's going he
You can't be like, man, I learned so much under.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
You, nothing, Bro, Dennis shoulders and layers. Bro, it's just insane, Bro,
Like what is this man thinking?

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
Like his tenure was what the main character of this
story and like in all, like the whole thing, if
something involved him.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
He is a main character, entirely bro like he And
it's funny because now he has truly fulfilled the NBA rainbow,
like he has been on every team or no, like
he's been on almost all the teams with a different
color jersey, color wave that he can make. He can
formulate the NBA rainbow of his his NBA jerseys. It's
just funny to me. Man, I just can't. I just can't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
But he looked hard this trade he ends.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
By the way, Yeah he did, he did, so I
just he's just hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
But I guess on three twenty four hours.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Bro, every team was like, nope, nope, nope, nope. Man
guy said to the what they somehow sent him to
the Jazz or they he sent him to the Jazz
and the Jazz said no.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
And then.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. And it's so funny because even
when you look up his player pages, it's like you
see the first like five or whatever seasons in Atlanta, right,
and then after that it's just a long page because
it has to encompass each different spot and all the
different teams, like his season with the different teams. So

(01:03:12):
it looks like it was almost just as long as
Lebron's thing. But it's just not even due to time.
Tenure in the league is due to all the different spots.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
But that's nuts. So the record is thirteen. Do you
think he gets it?

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Look, there's a chance, bro, he's only thirty one. There's
a chance he could get it. That's a strong chance.
Oh my gosh. All right, well, listen Dennis Dennis.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
Were talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
It is just funny coming from the timeframe of when
he was about to get that contract from the Lakers.
But yeah, let's talk about the crazy fumbled. Ain't the word.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Guarantee, long term deal put in front of him and
he turn he died.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Lakers years later.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Or anything like that, but he turned out the deal
and then a year after that, just start, who just
could not got a short term that a one year
Deal's been finding one year deals and getting traded.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Literally, man has been the fixture of being moved.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
Just yeah, and I mean, looking at the Lakers perspective,
they died.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
They did, oh yeah, entirely his his season with them
was a contractor locked in long term too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
That's probably not probably that isn't overpay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Yeah for sure. Okay, so what do you think about
the the Jimmy trade From the aspect of I guess
you could talk about both teams that the heat and
the wars that much heat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Yeah, for they get off, they get off at the soundtrack.
I like Williams. I like Williams. There the heat still.
I mean, you're of missing that one. That superstar player.
This game, this game with the superstar is contending, right

(01:05:11):
This team right as is right now is just like
a first round second round exits. Probably a first round
exits team from being honest for sure, and so it's
like they they probed it. I'm not cappy either. So
I guess if you sit in the market and you
just wait for somebody to come available. This team is good.

(01:05:34):
They I mean Bams young, where looks amazing heroes young
and trying to figure ot where they're Where are they
at in terms of what's the record this year?

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
I can tell you they are current? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Uh so, I mean the East is just so bad
that they don't have to worry defend the playoffs and
so yeah, I mean you set yourself up. I mean
I think they set themselves up well. Again they you
set themselves up that they just need a superstar players.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Go there, I'm I'm I'm I guess I'm not because essentially,
this is what a one year deal, what you're getting
they what they the contract is it broke for like
the Shams report was that Jimmy signed for two years
and I think it was one one yeah, and so
but in reality, in reality it's a one year deal

(01:06:33):
because it's added on to his his current contract and
so yeah, it's a one year deal in reality. So
for a one year deal you get you're getting back Wiggins,
Kyli Anderson and these these are like these are like
heat type of players that I will say, I think
these are heat type of players.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
But they're perfect. They literally fit perfectly with the heat.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
But people saying that this was like some type of
like I saw some some trying to say like, oh,
this is a fleece. This was like this, I'm like,
it's at least of commendus in it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
I don't know, like if I'm like, I guess it's
in the fleet of the sense like this is like
to me, this is just a move for the Warriors
to make a move, right, Like this is not there's
really changing things for the season. Yeah, but they're gonna
be a play They're probably still the playing team. Jimmy

(01:07:23):
is not this. This is not the same Jimmy system
to the to the bubble, can't find and.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
I don't know, but you think they need that Jimmy. Yeah,
well okay, yeah said that. Yeah they do. I guess
the naturally. I just said, because Jimmy, this is the
first time since Philly Jimmy's played with a shock or
a creator better than him. I mean, yeah, so that's

(01:07:54):
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Do you need that?

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
That an ultimate version of Jimmy?

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Because Steph is Stephan step That like step is still Steph,
but he ain't.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Step It's so weird to see, right, Like Steph, Steph
is falling bro.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
It's not like he's thinkings on the Crazy Drop or
anything like that. But he ain't Steph no more. Dog Like,
he's not that guy no more. Again, he's very six
seven years old.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Unless he plays against Lebron.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Bro's shots the other night.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Oh yeah he did it. Oh yeah he. I mean
he had a rough first half now I think about
he did. Yeah, It's not like.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
He's not he's Bro. He played, He's not played that good,
like the hold on a second on thee.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Well to be to be fair, though, we got to
remember the fact that Clay's not there anymore and Draymond
was out for extended period of time with his injury.
So naturally Steph's shooting percentage have never been that great
without I mean, I mean, for Steph's standards. Let me
say that first and foremost.

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
Thirty eight percent shooting thirty. But I'm trying to make
it even worse. He's doing thirty from.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Narrative, I am.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
I am, Oh, listen, I'm not. I've never I've never
gone to side away from bro hold On. He he
shot so the first he shot forty in October. There's
only three games, and he shot forty seven November and thirty.
When he was shooting in November, we were like, oh,
that's still that guy. Seth's still him, right, Yeah. December

(01:09:31):
he shot forty, came back to forty four, and he's
shooting thirty six so far in the first three games
of this month.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
But Draymond just came back though.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
But and that's what I'm saying, Like old Steph was
still like he's still getting his he's still scoring. Step
old Stepp was still it's still efficient. Steph went from
like when when Draymond or he had somebody out. He
went from one of the most efficient of all time
to like very efficient. Now he's like falling back down

(01:10:01):
to like good efficiency. He's good efficiently. Yeah, and that's like,
this is this, this is seventh. Step is having his
least of fishing year since I think his third his
third year in the league.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
And again it's it's just he's just a part of
it is he doesn't have the playmakers runs and b
he's getting older.

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
Yeah, it was just the natural year, his.

Speaker 2 (01:10:29):
Worst deficiency year since twenty twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Geez damn, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
I mean yeah, so, I mean it's part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
The roster is just like hey, first of all, this
roster is just bad, like offensively rock is bad, just.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
Doge And then yeah, it is, it really is.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
And then secondly, so I mean does Jimmy help out
with that? Yeah he does, but like I just don't know,
be a skin that year that like that's what and
that's what I mean. It's just like Jimmy helps with that,
but like I don't think it pushes them to this
is the first round team. This is the first round

(01:11:10):
back to the team. If I'm being honest, don't see
I still see the team like they're gonna They're gonna
fight and fall and get into the playoffs, which be
a seven like bad case scenario. Right, they get to
like the seventies, right mm hm, And they play the Nuggets.

(01:11:33):
Yeah you picked them agains the Nuggets. No, No, I
mean that's like I only team. Oh sorry, they played
the Frisbees, and I don't think I take them against
the Brisbees.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
They have a chance, I will say, though, I will say,
funny enough, funny enough. I may I made comments about
Jared Jackson JUNR. And literally right after I make these comments,
cook dude starts cooking. I mean he just he starts
putting thirty and like, ain't cooking? Yeah, well, no, I
won't say to the degree he has the last few

(01:12:06):
games though, No, he hasn't been cooking to the degree
he was the last few. I would say all around,
like he because he upped it. That's what I was
asking for him though. I was asking for him to
up his scoring out But and he's done it the
last few games.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
The problem is not Darren Jackson Jr. With that d
I said this before, it's one guy. I just need
Jaw to be that superstar guy.

Speaker 1 (01:12:27):
I definitely think there was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Jaw is that superstar guy that seems that that teams
that can Sidney teams.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
But I think God to State could could could catch them,
to be honest, No.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
I don't think so. I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
You don't think like just on a on a good
on a good Steph series and one of those vintage
Jimmy series that go to State couldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
If Okay, yeah, if you catched it at like if
you give if they somehow turned back the clock and
you give me like mid if you give me like
twenty twenty Jimmy Butler and twenty like any year before
this year. Steph Curry, sure the guy you can you
can catch me on all a Warrior's Light winning series.

(01:13:09):
But I mean that I'm not exacting managinally so real
with you. I'm just not. First of all, Jimmy's gotta
stay healthy, which has not been.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
A given, no none at all.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
You have to trust that Steph legend and like gonna
hold up through the entire year, which is also ain't
a given. You have to hope that Kaminga just doesn't
play bad, and you have to hope Pods doesn't play
bads well, which Pod has been awful this year.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
I don't know, you're asking a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
I don't know, man. I think I think a lot
of times these veteran guys, I think this is what
they end up holding out for. Though. I think they're
they're just like, just get me into the series, get
me into the series, and let me cook.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
Is like that works if you're like the Laker, right,
who is the fourteenth right? When you have to the
war still have to get to the playoffs. Yeah, so
they have to. They have to. They have to go
into playoff modes before playoffs starts, and they have to
carry that for like twenty games because they're gonna be
flawing the whole way the end of the series, the

(01:14:14):
end of the season.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
But I think that's why the Jimmy that position was
so huge, because you went and got Jimmy to essentially
like alleviate some of that being solely on Steph and
because Draymond was out all this time, you didn't have
Draymond to help with that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
It's gonna be good with Draymond on like playing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
I think that's in part. I think, well, I think
that's also in part to the I mean, he just
came back, though not saying Draymond is a cure all
pill that fixes everything, but he definitely helps. Yeah, he
fixes a lot, you know what I mean. So he
makes it so much easier for Steph to be who
Steph is, and he also helps uplift their defense by
a wide margin. They they came back in that Laker

(01:14:54):
game in large part because of Draymond's defense. Yeah, so,
I I mean, I definitely think it's not like I'm
sitting here thinking the words about to be this Trailblazer team,
and I just think that if they can maybe catch
a team in the first round, but they're not, I
don't think they're gonna set the world on fire by
any means. I think that just Jimmy training was an
effort to make like they needed a piece. Kevin Durant

(01:15:16):
would have been the perfect piece for them, but they
needed a piece, and Jimmy Butler was the only disgruntled
star on the market right now that they were like,
we can go get that guy, and the heat are
gonna do whatever they can to move him, and so
they did that, and I do get them credit they
kept kaminga.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
In the deal. I mean, I don't know, maybe just
on an off season with them. I don't unless you're like,
those guys are our future, which I made it clear
last time I felt about them getting the future, but
the very clear the I don't know this done. I

(01:15:53):
don't like this game. Like they're just not good even
if you catched it the first round, Like the war
are literally the only team, not the words, sorry, the
Grizzlies are the only team. And I think I gotta
telling them. The Grizzlies to be honest a little bit,
but like like if they play the Nuggets takes absively brans,

(01:16:17):
I always think that's what No.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think truth, truth be told. I
think the only teams they really have a chance to
play if they were to go up against is the
Grizzlies the Rockets.

Speaker 2 (01:16:28):
I think the Rockets god awful match for them.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
I think, naturally on its face, right, because the Rockets
are so good defensively, but you know what happens when
you get into the playoffs, man, and it's just it's
it's true. The tail is true as time. Bro, It's
a tail is true as time that always ends up
happening in the pass.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
I think I get that. But like they wore, the
Rockets just are just to terrible. That's an awful matchup
for them. There's probably a closer match than the other ones.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
But do they make the playoffs? So do they make
or where we what are we thinking? Do you think
they make ten to nine? Or are they seven through ten?
Or because right now you have tennis Sacramento Ninus Phoenix
eight is Dallas ten.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
Eight through ten? Right Sacra Miville falls out, San Antonio
probably quins Golden State. Man, somebody's gonna be fighting for that. Then,
I don't know who it is.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Somebody has to fall out because there's no way to
Spurs and Golden State get in and somebody doesn't fall like,
somebody has to come out.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
You're here, Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
I don't know. Look at Phoenix, No, I think things.

Speaker 2 (01:17:34):
I think things to be okay, I don't fight ten
figure it out. I guess it would be between the
Warriors and the Spurs. I don't think sacle is that
just the I don't know. I think the Worriors would
get it probably. I think that's three game hold for
San Antonio's kind of tough.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
I think we definitely got to see what kind of
version of Jimmy shows up. I want to see what
Jimmy looks like in this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
I know the thing is. That's the other thing also,
And like man, dude the old dog, and it's like,
there's no guarantee he's gonna stay healthy the entire time.
Draymond's old, there's no guarantee he's gonna stay healthy entire time.
Steph Old, there's no guaranteed's gonna stay healthy the entire time.
You're putting so much pressure on those three and they're
all thirty five plus, Like if one of them go out,

(01:18:19):
it's just kind of like just the team just falls apart.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
Basically, Jimmy's contract steps the deal too. I noticed, Yeah,
I'm that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Since you're fine with it the extension. I didn't care
too much about the extension because like you're your your
cap down until staph liefs anyway, so who cares really?
And I guess the other thing is like, Okay, if
you really really don't if you aren't sold on the
COMINGA pods future, you can go out of this off

(01:18:48):
seasons and move move them to get a piece, Yeah,
to like really push one more year out of the team.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
I think, I think I don't know what they've I've
always been confused about what the Warriors were seeing coming.
I mean, I think Cominga and Pods are nice players
to have on your team, particularly if let's say this
was the beginning of the Warriors run like in twenty
sixteen fifteen, and you have Cominga Pods. Those are great
rotational players that you have. But in terms of future

(01:19:20):
prospects of where you know your your run is near
the end, none of these guys are going to be
your your star.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
That they were untouchable this all see last all season,
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. Man, they
could have had like they like the lower market and
trade more. Laurie is not like this world beater of
a player and like but he he like he's twenty
seven and fishing pretty much any offense. And you're telling

(01:19:51):
me that Kaminga is untouchable for him, I don't know.
And it's like, I don't know. It's never been high
up with me though. He's just one of those guys
and with crazy athletic, he's really like, there's one of
those guys who who has the ton of potential and

(01:20:12):
he just quite never put it together. Two, I'm kind
of being trying to be like, you know, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:20:17):
Yeah, he still has room, he still has runway to develop,
but the way he's progressed it hasn't looked like he's
going to be a superstar.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
You see it, and you're like, you've seen a lot
of these guys where they're like they're good, but they
just never quite put it all together.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Well, remember this is this is very reminiscent of Wiggins,
and when Wiggins first came in and they were talking
about he's so athletic, he can do this, he can
be that, and then they end up making the deal
when Lebron comes back to Cleveland and they ship him
off for Kevin Love. So, now, what'd you say?

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
So that's funny, he said Wiggans because they went to
the exact same high school.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yeah, truly. So it's like you you're you're in this
arc of how you do things and the naturally you
if you're trying to make that run and I get it.
It's like teams don't want to let go of any
just young prospect. They haven't be in the other tubes
for years. But I don't know, man, I don't know
if Kaminga has shown superstar potential. At least to me,
I haven't seen it. The Warriors probably might see something else.

(01:21:19):
They might see him working hard and all this stuff.
I need to talk to one of my friends. He's
an avid Warrior fan. I need to talk to him
about it. But I don't know what the Kaminga. The
Kaminga hype is, to be fair, but this is very
reminiscent of he's a height.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
I mean, he's twenty two, he's athletic as he says anything.
Last year he put up sixteen a game one on
fifty three. And it's like you, so you see the
you see the potential. It's just like it's one of
those things where it's like like it looks really like all.
I don't know. There's times I see it and I'm

(01:21:56):
like I get it, and then like nine the other time,
like no, at.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Least for it to be something that stops you from
landing another star. That's what I'm not seeing. That's the
part I see the talent, But I'm just not seeing
the Steph Curry is gonna fade out into whatever. I mean.
I guess they got the third guy they that they
got in Jimmy without having to give them up. So
maybe that's that's not that's irrelevant because I don't maybe

(01:22:24):
I don't know what other star would have been moved
to there to go to State if Kamingo was was available,
So if Jimmy was the guy that you could have got,
I guess it works in this in this manner. But yeah,
it's gonna be interesting to see I even But okay,
so even aside from this, just I didn't want to
say one thing about the Phoenix trade just wrote or
the Phoenix side of things, just real briefly is it

(01:22:48):
is just so hilarious to me that the Bradley Beal
contract is still living up to its its moniker of
being one of the worst contracts in professional sports, and
the fact that he is get paid so much money
and he has a no trade clause for the And
this is not to say badly Beal is a scrubb
or nothing like that, but him at that number of

(01:23:09):
a no trade clause is just entirely beyond the realm
of comprehension. And you can make the case that the
Bradley Beal trade or the Bradley Beal no trade clause
on its face stopped Jimmy Butler from going to Phoenix
and whatever the way the trades are supposed to happen,
because Phoenix can't move Bradley Beal unless he weighs the

(01:23:31):
no trade clause, so he gets to determine wherever he
wants to go. And so you're just sitting there in
that situation. It's just so interesting that we, I mean,
we called this years ago when it happened, when Matt
it should be a bot the team. We said, this
is new owner syndrome. He's just trying to make He's
swinging for the fences that would ever move whatever names

(01:23:52):
can sell, butts in seats, Oh we got this big three,
but anybody. And it really made me start to the bat.
I'm like, is this guy even a basketball guy? I
because every basketball had news like why would you? I
honestly would have preferred the roster with Booker, Durant and
eight And yeah, I just I don't I just don't

(01:24:13):
understand how we and I think at the time they had,
they had they had Kim, they had Cam Thomas.

Speaker 2 (01:24:19):
On the on the team.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
I'm trying to remember everybody had at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
But we we talked about this before or it's like
I don't think I don't think he has much to
do with like he's a basketball guy. I think it's
one of those things. He was the first time ow there.
He wanted to come in. He wanted to make a
big old, you know, big old thing. Right. Yeah, that
was a trade for you know, the out build, a
big three, and unfortunately your third piece was just just

(01:24:44):
happened to be Bradley Will Yeah, like I was. You
look at it, you're like Bradley Beal was a thirty
point scorer two years before he traded four. He's just
consistent twenty five plus guy. No, bro well twenty three
before that.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
But like bro, we all knew though, that's there. We
all knew though.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
Yeah, I mean we all knew. But like you know,
if you're just like if you're if you're just like
a big like probably you gotta think like this this
is a it's not it's not a GM or anything
like that. So you're just like looking at twenty three
points a game. It was pretty good, you know, thirty
thirty one two years before that, that's pretty good. You know.
So it's like, hey, you know he had he can

(01:25:30):
play make a little bit. Okay, you're putting that Devin Booker,
who's a good playmaker. Okay, yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 (01:25:37):
I guess, man, I I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
You know, you look at it, you're like, oh, this
guy average three Kevin Durry image twenty seven, Devin Booker
average twenty five. Like, oh, you guys don't score the
play make.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
I said Cam Thomas, I met Cam Cam Johnson When
I said Johnson, Yeah, yeah, I met Cam Johnson. But
it was at that time, even even when they got
out of the Chris Paul dealings, I was I was
a bit confused, even when they dropped out of having
Chris Paul, because I felt as though that Chris Paul
was a good pairing with Devin Booker. I don't know.
It's so weird because there's so many details that happened

(01:26:12):
with these teams that you just don't I mean, I know,
Chris Paul he had he had struggled with his health
in Phoenix, which sucks because now the Spurs. He's been
pretty good health wise, but in Phoenix he had struggled
with his health, and I think that that at that
point they had gotten annoyed that they couldn't make deep
playoff runs and depend on him to be healthy in
those runs. But I would have loved Chris Paul. Granted,

(01:26:33):
his his number was high, I think, I think at
the time, and his last part of the deal, yeah,
he was at thirty and I think but he said
I think he said he was willing to restructure his deal.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
So I don't I'm sure you would.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Yeah, I mean he could have been.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
Spurs. So it's like, why would Yeah, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
So I think him him with Devin Booker, with Kevin Durant,
Cam Johnson, you still I don't know. Mikhail Bridges was
a part of the trade for Kevin, so yeah, so
you wouldn't have Michael. But I think, well, actually I
think Cam Cam Johnson was a part of that trade too. Yeah,
you wouldn't have had km Johnson. Yeah, so you you

(01:27:13):
would have had Durant playing the four basically Durant Booker eight.
And it just sounds like a lot of people were
out on eight, in which.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
I'm I mean, all the stories that came out, are
you surprised, No, No, not at all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
To keep it it real, No, that's not surprising. I
got I don't know, man, I just wish they the
Bradley Beal because now, I mean, obviously I'm a I'm
a Laker fan, so them being in the same division.
I'm not tripping off of the Suns being irrelevant, but
it is just yeah, it is just funny. Okay. So
this was the roster. It was eight and Booker, Tory, Craig,

(01:27:52):
Damian Lee, he's still there, Josha Koge, Campaign, Terrence Ross,
Dario Sarich, TJ Warren. Yeah, I don't know. The team
wouldn't stilloul. I don't think it would have. They would
have had to do something else. I just think Bradley
Beal was the wrong piece.

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
He was. Yeah, So it's just the problem of overlapping,
overlapping abilities between Bradley Beale and Devin Booker.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
Yeah truly.

Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
And yeah, and you're you already have and then it's
like another overlapping ability where it's like you have three
scores and the score you pick up his. You know
what I mean, you have Kevin Duran and Devin Booker
who provided the scoring for you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
It's just bad team building one on one year, and
I mean they're just a big man rotation just got awful.
James Johnson had never made a move like that before,
or James Jones, sorry, James Jones had never made a
move before that. That's why I totally am like, this
is entirely I'm the owner.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
Because yeah, yeah, I wasn't. Yeah, I don't think anybody
like putting this on. I didn't James Jone. I don't
think there's as much as like he has a choice
on what he's making this trade or not.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
Okay, So I guess now you can elaborate more on
this trade because from watching being your Calves fans. So
the Calves trade for DeAndre Hunter where y'all get Hunter
and then you sent to the Hawks karas avert George Niang,
three second round picks and two pick swaps. I mean,
how are you feeling about that trade?

Speaker 2 (01:29:20):
That was we were we had needed one thing all season,
and that was we needed a big It's not a
big a big wing. Our arts are starting three was
combination of o'koro who was six four and match Strews,

(01:29:42):
who is six five. So the problem was that they
needed a big wing because obviously our back court is
very small, with Garland being six y one and Don
Mitchell being six two, and so we had this dynamic
where we have two where we have a huge front court,
a small backcourt, and then like the small three ladding

(01:30:03):
the air and fox their fox DeAndre Hunter, whoa the
adding DeAndre Hunter on top of on top of that,
o'coro has improved to shooting a lot. He's up the
you know, he was he was mid thirties his first
three years basically, and then he jumped up to almost

(01:30:26):
forty percent. But it only takes like he only takes
three a game basically, so it wasn't like he's taking
a ton. And so it was like it was one
of the few weaknesses of the team where you could
just kind of like just kind of leave him if
you really kind of wanted to. And now you get
a guy who's shooting thirty nine percent on seven attempts basically,

(01:30:46):
and who shot thirty eight percent on five attempts last year,
So it kind of fit the need of exactly what
the Cavs needed in all aspects he's not the defender
that the guy that o'cora was. I don't think he is,
at least I'm not. I haven't watched a ton of
DeAndre Hunter film. But even if he's still as long
as he's not a negative a compan year and barring

(01:31:08):
his health is good, which is what he struggled with.
If those two things are good, this is just a dub,
just a w trade for the Cavs for the Hawks. Uh,
lavert is Lavert is off. He's a freezer next year,

(01:31:29):
go after this year. I guess really in the me
is a good piece who just plays the plays a
good game. That's just very few holes in the game.
He's a good role players. So it's not a bad
trade for the Hawks. I kind of we kind of
talked with this before the podcast, where I don't know
what the hell's gonna do this offseason. I think Fray

(01:31:51):
has I don't know if they tried the trade Tray,
I don't. They're in the middle of him. They're like
kind of over the hill already. They were kind of like,
we're towards this youth movement, and now they're you get
they got rid of they get rid of Hunter. They
got rid of about Danovich, they got rid of somebody
else as well.

Speaker 1 (01:32:10):
I can't think those Jalen Johnson.

Speaker 2 (01:32:14):
Jalen Johnsons got hurt. That yea, Jalen Johnson, who I
think they're the best player this year, got hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:32:19):
Once he got hurt. I think that's when you knew
this team was cooked. It was a done deal.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
Yeah, I think. I don't know. Trey Young is twenty six,
trail is twenty six, go to be twenty seven winning
next year? You're not. You're nowhere even close to being
even good. Really, so I don't know exactly what they

(01:32:49):
plan to do. But I don't know, just go I
they need to reacause they just need to quite a
start over.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
Well that's the crazy part because this season you're moving
all these players in these pieces, but you don't have
on your pick.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
So yeah, I mean, but the problem is, like they
got uh then they Clino the region next year, you
didn't have the draft pick though right now they don't.
They have an eight er pick at all. See That's
what I'm saying, Like they need to go ahead and.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
The pick they have. The pick they have is they
have Los Angeles' pick from New Orleans, so they have
LA's twenty twenty five pick for whatever that's going to
be worth. And then oh wow, yeah, so just got
news the Lakers say that the Dalton connecting Mark Williams

(01:33:44):
trade has been rescinded.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
What yeah, well that's Mark Williams vison. Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
Yeah, that has to be a Mark Williams angle or somebody.
Somebody had to have failed the physical.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:34:11):
It's gotta be Mark, right, Damn. That's crazy, dude. This
trade deadline has just been nuts. So everything we said
about the Mark Williams thing just pretty much write that off.
What what is the reasoning Shaan's we need more details here?

(01:34:33):
Normally I will say this is my criticism of Shams.
I saw somebody say, uh, Sham's trade deadline. He said,
they're saying that he's not peak wode because wode Us
used to always have the lore on hand. In the tweet,
Shams takes about ten minutes and then adds the added
lore behind. You know, Wow, it's been rescinded. So then

(01:34:55):
now Dalton connect comes back knowing they try to get
rid of them.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
Here, you're a rookie dog, listen.

Speaker 1 (01:35:02):
I mean that still can affect how good you're playing
this season.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Bro, Like he was already pretty much getting in the doghouse.
Dog hasn't been good since like the big the first
half of the first part of the season.

Speaker 1 (01:35:13):
It says the Lakers say that the trade between the
Charlotte Hornets and Lakers has been rescinded due to a
failure to satisfy condition of the trade. Hmm, that's what
Jovon Buha just tweeted. And he's a Lakers beat right,
He's a beat writer for the La Times. I'm sorry
he's a for the Athletic Brother, but I know I've
seen him right for the La Times as well.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Though, So this problem, So it's kind of crazy now
because this went from this went from man, the Lakers
now have kind of like perfect kind of not perfectly,
but that they have a good a good roster to
kind of like even for the season. So now you're
past the trade deadline, you have no you have no

(01:35:56):
big you have to work the by mark, I.

Speaker 1 (01:35:58):
Guess yeah, they're definitely gonna be in the buyout market.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
Because I mean there's genuinely just no based on the
market for them to I mean, you can't trade. Nobody
not at all.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
Yeah, you're wow, this is huge and this I don't
I don't know if the Lakers are in this first
and second or second apron.

Speaker 2 (01:36:22):
Currently.

Speaker 1 (01:36:22):
Well yeah, I mean the trade deadline's passed, so yeah,
they're not trained for anybody. So it's all but it's
all buyout market. That is insane that the trade. I
wonder what aspect it had to be his physical, right?
I would imagine you think so, right, because that was
that's what I remember. People were saying, well, I hope
the Luca trade goes in, goes through, you know, borrowing
against rescinded if they find out Lucas like two ninety.

(01:36:46):
But Mark Williams comes in and then somehow he fails
his physical or something.

Speaker 2 (01:36:52):
I don't know. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
It's like it was who knows.

Speaker 2 (01:36:58):
I mean, I don't know if it didn't say I
think I think it was a physical. I think they
was just thepending he failed as physical. I mean they're
saying they didn't fulfill a condition.

Speaker 1 (01:37:08):
Yeah, that's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:37:10):
See Sham's look, bro, you tweeted this at four minutes ago.
We need the extra detail. You can't just throw it
out there and not got nothing to follow up on.
It says it was failed because the horness the Hornets
faared a satisfied condition of the trade.

Speaker 2 (01:37:26):
There's sound like there was failing failing physical.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
It sounds like the Hornets were trying to either what
the Lakers are only going to get Mark Williams. So
what could the Hornets have not imagine? Imagine? Imagine the
Hornets are like, we're not taking came reddish.

Speaker 2 (01:37:58):
The bridge, the bridge too far. We would do a
lot of things. We are not taking camp right now.

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
Dude, that is hilarious. Oh my gosh, that is hilarious.
Y'all can keep camp. Bump that that that I mean,
because that's only what I imagine. They're not going to
ask the whether the Lakers already sending a twenty thirty

(01:38:29):
one first round pick Mark was, or or maybe at
the Hornet sitting providing details more more details of Mark
William's health.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
I think that's probably the closer to what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
He just played. Yeah, that's like one of the stunning
things from me. He literally just played. I don't know,
until we get more details, we can just keep covering.
I mean, I would just say I do like DeAndre Hunter.
For y'all, what you get in getting DeAndre Hunter you
get a consistent nineteen point per game score at forty

(01:39:05):
six percent from the field, and he's shooting thirty nine
percent from three this year. I think this is the
version of DeAndre Hunter that it kept we kept being
told this is who he's supposed to be, and now
finally this is actually the version he's performing as So
I think that I like that for the Calves, and
I think that you get a guy that, like you saying,

(01:39:28):
has has more size on him, and then you guys
can go out there. I don't I think Karris was
was Karas and Niang. I think that they were. They
were nice to have as like filler positions but in
some depth, and they played within that that Calves offense.
But I also said, I would say that defensively, this
trade was made because the Calves are like, dude, get

(01:39:49):
we're gonna have to deal with the Celtics. Yeah, and
we have We're gonna have to get around the Celtics somehow,
And so I think that was definitely a big, a
big reason for what led to this happening. But all right,
let's I guess real quick. We could talk about the
brandon The Raptors get Brandon Ingram in a three player

(01:40:12):
deal where the Raptors get brandon Ingram, Pelicans get Bruce Brown,
Kelly Olynnok, a first round pick, and a second round pick.
I mean, any thoughts on pretty much all the remnants
of the eighty trade for the Pelicans, at least from
what the Lakers sent, are pretty much gone now, and
I guess any discussion about who won the trade is
pretty much moved. It was moot when the Lakers won

(01:40:33):
the championship, but now the Lakers adding Luka Doncic as
a byproduct of having a d from that trade, it's
just makes this it's a it's definitely a one leaning
way deal.

Speaker 2 (01:40:45):
Yeah, it's pretty Coilos Eason. I've started like there's no
there's no discussion this point anymore. Every like you said,
every pieces ben moved, or you've gotten all your draft
picks all done and everything, just maybe one of the
Telson's done. No, what have they done? All? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:41:10):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:41:11):
They they they started like they they got these pieces
as a rebuild and they are still but six years later,
still in the rebuilt.

Speaker 1 (01:41:25):
Literally, So yeah, I don't know, what.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
I mean the Pelts tough spot because it's like you
moved like yes, Zion, And I said before, I don't
think he moved lost on them be so real.

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
It feels like it's like the only player that they're
like we're not moving off of is Trey Murphy.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
I mean I could, I could. I think Trey Murphy
and Herb I would not move off those systems.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
Because Zion.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
I think that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
I don't know. I feel like Zion is one of
those guys that hasn't shown the It's it's almost weird
because I feel like the minute you move on he
will eventually he will somehow find a way.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
That's my point. He's so good that like if you
move him, he goes crazy and he'll be and you'll
be like, wow, why did y'all trade dye On? You
hold on to him and it's like you hope it
kind of works out, but if you don't, it's like, wow,
why did you trade zie On? It's like this all
lose the situation. Like I feel like at that point,

(01:42:34):
it's like if I'm not getting if I can't get
a raism for him, I'm just gonna hold onto him.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
Yeah, Now if something, if some team will still be like, hey,
we'll give you like two first rounders and like a
young player and like some bad contracts. I'll take that.
But like, unless getting that no feeling, you can film
the team be bad or not be bad.

Speaker 1 (01:42:57):
But be fat and bad right away career.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Literally, yeah, that's fine, you'll be you'll do it here,
but I'm not trading you away and watching you go
flour somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:43:06):
Yeah, figure it out or you're gonna have to ride
here or.

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
It's like I genuinely think I do genuinely think he
will turn it Like I genuinely think he will turn
it around.

Speaker 1 (01:43:18):
They're at the point they won't been playing back to backs,
and he said that, he said that it wasn't his
decision to not play back to backs. It's the hornet.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
So that's fine, don't play. He shouldn't be playing back
to back until his house is good. He shouldn't be.
Yeah it is. It is pretty cool, just so good.
He just needs to stay on the court. Really, but
like he don't play five, He's still he's trying.

Speaker 1 (01:43:43):
He does, he does. It is a bummer man. For
the Pelicant I feel for them, like I saw the
vision of what they were trying to build and saw
it showed so much promise.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
I was they feel the terrible king around him. I
hate they built around him.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
Yeah, I think I think initially when you get at
the hallboy, granted, I think that that team was built
on betting on the upside of brandon Ingram and Zion.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
You know, we talked about it when times that. I
think we talked about this when it happened. But I've
never been I've never been a Brandon nam Ruther, and
I did not like the trademer to happen. I didn't
like them together to fit together. I didn't like anything

(01:44:28):
about it. And so them moving off of brandon Ingram
is a positive to me.

Speaker 1 (01:44:34):
I think. I think people I think it was so
funny because there was times there for the league was
trying to I don't know, maybe this was partially because
he was a Laker, but there was times there where
people were really trying to force the brandon Ingram is
going to be like Kevin Durant thing, And I'm like, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
It's not even that he was a Laker. They've been
doing that since college. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
Yeah, Like they were trying to force a he was
that duke, but they were trying to force it so
hard that Brandon Ingram is going to be the next
Kevin Durant. I'm like, the no, there's no signs outside
of there both lanky and skinny and Kevin Durant's bigger
still that this guy is as pure a score as
Kevin Durant. There's just no inklings of that. And you

(01:45:13):
saw you see some flashes here and there, and then
Kevin Durant starts talking about like, oh, I could see
myself in him, and I'm like, Okay, you're doing this
guy as solid. You are you are you know what
you're doing. You're you're You're definitely doing this guy as solid.
And it was so funny because even with the Lakers,
they they toured around with him being like a main
ball handler and guy, and as much as they've tried

(01:45:35):
to help him with his playmaking to be that guy.
And it's funny because he took all the aspects of
being on ball and and and utilizing the ball, but
he didn't become like one of the a great playmaker
at the forest position, nor did he ever become like
a great off ball player in the same designation that
Kevin Durant has, and he never became a wing defender Desmite.
All the hype about him being able to possibly be

(01:45:57):
a lanky long defender and all this stuff never became
that either. And so it's just solid and everything exactly solid.
And that is a guy that if the Hornets would
have had to pay him, or sorry another Hornets, the Pelicans,
if the Pelicans would have had to pay him, that
would have been a bad contract, I truthfully believe. So,

(01:46:17):
so it is better that I think you get off
from under. I don't know why Toronto did this by
any means. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
Toronto knows they're not getting any They're not getting any talent.
I mean, I'm not they're not getting any there. Nobody's
gonna sign a free agent deal in Toronto. I mean
you had, you know, Kawhi from there win a championship
and he still just left you. Every every superstar you've
got in there left, So it's like, if you're not

(01:46:45):
gonna get, if you're not gonna get, if you're not
gonna get a superstar, you just say, you know what
if it they they have they have a guy who
had superstar potential in Scotti Bars and they think, Okay,
we're not going to give you. You're not gonna get

(01:47:06):
You're not gonna get another Maybe you don't get a
number two option, but you get like you have two
guys who are threes, who are like you have Scotty
Barnho used to use your the fact of number one,
and then you say, Okay, Rgie Barrett and Brandon Ingram,
you got it. Aren't twos, but you can both be

(01:47:27):
a third best player on the team. And maybe guys
just altering between second best players on any get the
night right.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
But I will also say, I think you're very high
on Scotty Barnes in terms of like Scottie Barnes on
a good team is definitely like a third option.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
I got disagree. I think Scotty barn is the second.

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
Like for a team. So the premier teams that we
have in the NBA right now, the second option of
the Celtics is Jalen Brown the second option.

Speaker 2 (01:47:59):
What I think he'd better than Jailen Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:48:03):
I guess I don't. I don't. Maybe he will, but
I think I guess at this current moment, I just
I'm not seeing that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
No but I think I think he's I think I
think for sure he'll be better than than j Brown.

Speaker 1 (01:48:18):
He was the second option. What'd you say, I'm fairly
confident in that. Do you think he's better? Was he
better than Pascal?

Speaker 2 (01:48:28):
He can't be not a current moment though, but he's
aft through twenty three, So I mean, yeah, take that word.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
Yeah. I just I just don't if you need a
superstar I don't know how you pray brandon Ingram Scottie.

Speaker 2 (01:48:44):
I just I'm saying they think he's a superstar level player.

Speaker 1 (01:48:49):
That's interesting, that's very I look. I yeah, we'll see
how it works at Toronto. We'll see how it works
and if they're gonna pay brandon Ingram. But I don't
cause Brandon Ingram is gonna be one of those guys
that's gonna be like, pay me the Max. Not a
super Max obviously, but he's gonna be like, pay me
a Max level contract and by help, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:49:10):
Yeah, I don't think the I think they'll pay him.
I think he'll get like I think he's like.

Speaker 1 (01:49:16):
Forty, like Brandon needs to be in the range of
I don't know, I don't I don't even know how
what player scale, I would yeah, because there's the minute
he goes into that max territory, then you start having
those contracts where you're you're you start creeping into the
first and second apron, and then you really can't make

(01:49:36):
moves to go get players that you really need because
that guy's not good enough to even command that money
and mind. And for those unaware, the first and second
apron is pretty much like hard caps almost in the
NBA because before the way the salary cap is set up,
you could go over the salary cap because the NBA
had a soft cap and it was you just got
charged with luxury tax for every like dollar you were
over the salary cap or the yeah, with the salary cap,

(01:49:58):
you got charge of luxury tax on that. Now there
are also these restrictions, which is the first apron, which
currently right now is at one hundred and seventy eight
million dollars, where the restrictions that happen when you crossed
the first apron is that the teams cannot take back
money in a trade that and if they do make
a trade, they can't combine salary to make that trade happen,

(01:50:19):
and they can risk going into the second apron in
that scenario. So, for example, if I wanted to trade
for somebody's draft pick and I just want to send
them like cash considerations back, I can't do that if
I'm above the first apron. As well as if I
wanted to trade to get if I wanted to trade
and get like the last year of Bradley Beal's contract,
I can't combine two player salaries and trade for Badley
Beal's like fifty milli million dollar salary essentially, So you

(01:50:43):
can't do that. As well as the fact that you're
not allowed to use a pre existing trade exception. You're
only allowed to use a new trade exception from a
new trade. So if I traded for let's say, if
I traded for I don't know some player and they
make thirty million, I'm trading a back a guy that
makes twenty five million. That creates a five million dollar

(01:51:03):
trade exception. I can't use that if that's from a
pre existing season from beforehand. So now and then once
you get into the second apron, you can't. You pretty
much have all the same limitations and you can't take
any money back in the trade. You're not allowed The
combined contrast to you're not allowed to combining contracts and
a trade going out from your team, but you can
receive combined contracts for matching money coming in, and then

(01:51:27):
you cannot send you can't send cash in a trade
at all. And then it's a similar thing where you're
allowed to use a trade exception for a new team.
And if you're still over the Apron after the season,
this is where the second Apron kills you. After this season,
if you're over the second Apron, you lose your twenty
thirty two first round pick, or at least it gets
frozen so you won't be able to utilize it, which
is a killer. So obviously every team is avoiding the

(01:51:50):
second Apron, and it's honestly something I wish we would
have talked about more of that Luca trade, because I
think the second Apron fear played a role somewhat in
them not wanting to get give Luca Supermax because they
were like, Okay, we're gonna super max this guy. We're
pretty much as we're locked into believing Luca is the
dude and that we won't be able to make this

(01:52:10):
team better. So if we play Boston again, and this
is essentially the lineup that we're pushing out there with Luca,
Kyrie Clay and whatever, and we're in the second apron.
We have very little flexibility at all to improve the
team in our twenty thirty two pick is frozen. So
I guess they thought Luca was not that guy to
make to make that gamble on and so they ship
them out. Yeah, And truth be told, there's a lot

(01:52:35):
of deals that were happening that were to get under
the first and second apron that were happening. You saw
a lot of trades. And I'm still baffled. Bro I
told you this when this CBA got agreed to, I said,
for one, Oklahoma City was always my reference point. I said,
I don't like this deal at all because you're going
to force teams to get rid of young talent. They've
done a good job of building young teams and talent,

(01:52:56):
and they're gonna you're gonna start forcing people to make
trades and gutting making bad because of the fact they
just want to stay below the first and second apron.
And it's not it's just not conducive to good team building.
It's I don't I didn't like it when when they
first put it I don't know. I don't know how
I got agreed to, because now you're just having guys
get shipped out for the sake of avoiding a cap

(01:53:16):
number or cap restrictions. And I don't know, man, I
don't know. But yeah, that's just to give you guys
some background for the first and second apron on the
salary cap. But final trade we're gonna be talking about
here is the Bucks trading for Kyle Kuzma. The Bucks
trade out Kuzma or sorry, the Bucks received Kuzma from
the Wizards. They get Jericho Simms from the Knicks and

(01:53:38):
they get a twenty twenty five second round pick and
a twenty twenty six second round pick, while the Wizards
receive Chris Middleton and they also get A J. Johnson
from the Bucks as well as a twenty twenty eight
first round pick swap. And then the Knicks get dealon
right from the Bucks draft rights to Hugo Best's Besson
and then cash considerations, and then the Spurs get Patrick

(01:53:59):
Baldwin Junior from the Win and cash considerations. Naturally, I
think that this deal was done because Chris Middleton was
no longer able to really replicate the Chris Middleton that
we saw in twenty twenty one, and he's been hurt
frequently and so naturally, I think you get you get
younger at that position, and I think that they're hoping

(01:54:20):
that they can reignite the Kyle Kuzma that was last
seen in LA, because this version of Kyle Kuzma and
the Wizards, it's hard to gauge because you see a
guy that's shooting some of the most worst splits of
his career, but then at the same time you realize
he's just playing basketball. That's like meaningless basketball, so there's
really no value behind it. So I'm assuming they're hoping
that they can get the version of Kyle Kuzma that

(01:54:41):
understood he could play a role in LA and how
to play a role, even from things he said when
the Olympic team was going into or they were trying
to build the Olympic team. He was talking about how
people have to learn how to play roles and everybody
can't be a star and stuff, showing that he understands
still what that means to be a guy that has
to play meaningful basketball and play a specific role in
meaningful minutes in that role for a championship contending team,

(01:55:04):
and I think Chris Middleton was just over the hill
of that and he just kept getting hurt, especially in
spots where the Bucks really needed him for these I
think this team has really needed twenty twenty one Chris Middleton,
but this is just not the case in twenty twenty five.
But I mean, what do you think about this Bucks
trade for Kyle Kuzma.

Speaker 2 (01:55:24):
Uh, I mean it's the trade. I mean, yeah, the trade.
I don't know he does. I mean, it doesn't make
them worse, doesn't making any better from honest, I mean,
I don't know. I guess maybe it makes a little worse.
I mean, even Chris Midleton last year was kind of

(01:55:44):
like when they need him to the kind of step
up in the playoffs in the series.

Speaker 1 (01:55:48):
That they lost.

Speaker 2 (01:55:50):
Against the Pacers. Mm hmm, right where it was like yeah, yeah,
there was twenty five to nine five almost in six games.
It's like, I don't know, in the playoffs he's still
like really good. So I don't know, Kuzma, Like it's
one of those things when you get to it, Like

(01:56:11):
you know, when you get to a certain age and
a certain type of player, you realize your regular season
doesn't matter as much. He's kind of reached that point
where it's like he's He's regular season doesn't matter as
much as long as he provides in the postseason, which
is what he did. And so I guess you're now
banking on Kuzma stepping in and saying, hey, you're going

(01:56:36):
to have to play well in the playoffs now, and
you're gonna have to give us twenty twenty two to
twenty three a game in the playoffs, because it's like,
do you think Kuzma does that?

Speaker 1 (01:56:46):
I don't think so, yeah, yeah, will be a defense.

Speaker 2 (01:56:53):
I don't know. It's just it's like a it's not
a side sideways move. It's just kind of like I
don't know. I think it's that kind of get worse.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:57:03):
I think it's one of those things they look they
kind of look better than the regular season, but they
want to get to the playoffs. Is now your third
option is you know, Kuzma, Bobby Portois. Uh. I don't
know who they know, but because like I don't know,
that's ye. That's yearly like three through.

Speaker 1 (01:57:19):
Five, and like, uh bucks, they're currently twenty seven and
twenty three, sitting at fifth in the Eastern Conference, So.

Speaker 2 (01:57:27):
Yeah, probably, I mean that probably definably top five, but
they're Pokings. They're probably been fourth.

Speaker 1 (01:57:32):
Honestly, Indiana's ahead of them right now twenty nine and
twenty two, so they're one one loss ahead and two
wins ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:57:39):
So I wouldn't be shocked if they if they catch
to the Bucks. I mean it's the Pacers, yeah, all right,
but I mean, I don't know did they play they
I would I think I think one through five it's
pretty locked in. I'd be shocked if any of them
fell out of Detroit.

Speaker 1 (01:57:58):
Detroit would be interesting to see. I mean, just twenty
six and twenty six. Right now they're sitting right, they're
about three losses back of Milwaukee, one win back.

Speaker 2 (01:58:05):
Yeah, but I think I think Miami Detroit finished about
five hundreds. I think they finished with like sub forty
five wins, but it was forty five, like fortyty five wins,
right Orlando. Orlando is probably the only one there that's
really kind of misplaced. They probably climb up a bit,

(01:58:29):
and Philly also probably climbs up a bit once they
get everybody healthy, if they ever gave everybody healthy. But
like Miami Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago. Those are all kind of
like they all just be in the bottom here. One
through five is pretty much locked in. So I mean,

(01:58:51):
I don't know, do they They probably beat the Pacers, right, yeah?
Are they better than they? They're not better than the
next I don't think. I don't think they better than
the Celtics. I don't think they're better than the Cavs.

Speaker 1 (01:59:04):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:59:06):
I just think they are first round, their first they're
they're like a second X two teams around next two team.
He's old. Yeah, he's old. It's old, and it's not
it's not really got that much death. It's I mean,
it's just not that guy's a game honestly, like Brook
both has the thirty six Dames thirty four, I mean,

(01:59:28):
honest the only one. He's thirty. I mean this Sclusa
moves helped him out a bit off the first game.
Shot thirty in the first game, thirteen shots for about
twelve points. But I don't know. It's one of those
things where.

Speaker 3 (01:59:45):
It's like I just don't know what he provides exactly,
other than being cheaper and younger, younger, you know, it's
not like he provides.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:59:58):
I don't think we've seen we have haven't seen Kuzma,
and like, actually, when these guys are in pretty much
like just these trash locations, man, I you.

Speaker 2 (02:00:08):
Know, I actually didn't think Kuso was that bad like
two years ago, maybe the last year.

Speaker 1 (02:00:16):
I think that's that's one of the big things. I
think that anybody watching the Wizards this year, you just
realized that the Wizards are just playing like horrifically this year.
But I think that their hope they're banking on like
a good version of Kyle Kuzma. I mean.

Speaker 2 (02:00:34):
Yeah, but it's just like again with what's a good
version of Like what what does that bring with what
is that values with them?

Speaker 1 (02:00:44):
I think a guy that can go that can be
like a I mean similar to what he was with
the Lakers, like your second your second team, your second team,
like pro what you say, that's what they need.

Speaker 2 (02:00:56):
To That's the problem. Like the thing is like you're
getting rekuz Sorry, you're gonna read the military, who's like
your third option, and you're getting a guy who's like, hey,
you're good, Like we need to like your best your
best role was like running with the second team. Yeah,

(02:01:19):
and so it's like, I do think he is better
than that. I don't think he's best. You're like a
third best player in the championship. I don't think he's
that guy. And the problem is the Bucks need him
to be that guy because it's like Janis when we
were talking about this sport, is probably the best player

(02:01:39):
in the conference. Yeah, right, Dame is good for second options,
he's you know, he's the least he's the least second
option probably, and then it's like the rest of the team.
That's where your issue is. And you didn't do enough

(02:02:00):
to boot both to the rest of the team enough
while getting rid of Chris Middlicon.

Speaker 1 (02:02:06):
Yeah, man, I think that's that's the problem. They were
trying to move off of Brook Lopez as well, but
it doesn't seem like there was a trade there that
they could have gotten.

Speaker 2 (02:02:15):
There's nothing there. Yeah, there's nothing there, man.

Speaker 1 (02:02:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02:19):
Yeah. I mean he's thirty six. He's making tom like
twenty plus million dollars. Yeah. I don't know who's looking
at that and being like he's making twenty three. He's
having a down year. Three point No, that should about ball. Well,
I mean, so he's still I think his defense is
with the real estue is defense ball, Like he was
a defense player that year level good a couple of

(02:02:41):
years ago, and he's just kind of like not that
level anymore.

Speaker 1 (02:02:45):
Yeah, So it was just and that was the backgroone
of their defense. So now they're they're entirely they're not
that defensive stalwarts team that they were when they won
the championship. And with him falling off, now you also
replaced Drew, so you don't have this team is just
not This team has so limited options of improving and

(02:03:06):
these are fringe improvements, right, there's very fringe level improvements,
surface level, a new code of paint, but the walls
broken behind it, and so with their defense never being
able to really reshape to what it was in twenty
twenty one, I just, yeah, I don't think that this
team is going to ever be able to really beat
the Celtics. Giannis can have these incredible Lebron type playoff runs,

(02:03:31):
I guess, putting up crazy numbers in the East. But
I think that the Bucks now have come into a
situation where when they traded Drew, they made a bet
that Dame was going to be able to come in
and really supply offense to a degree that would be
a difference maker. And I think that bet And it's

(02:03:52):
weird because on paper, you think Giannis and Damien it works.
You think on paper, it's like it sounds great, but
when your team was built around a certain it's it's
not like their team was an offensive team. And then
you make this trade and then it's like, oh, yeah,
we upgraded the offense that we already were. Now you
made you made a trade that really changed your identity
and this team wasn't ready to shift in that way.

Speaker 2 (02:04:12):
And now.

Speaker 1 (02:04:14):
I just don't see. I don't see how it works, man.

Speaker 2 (02:04:16):
But yeah, it's not an awful move, like a people
up move. Not bad.

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
It's not like what they not gonna win your title?
Yes it is, it's not gonna win you the title,
but I mean so it was like only one team
can win the championships. So all these moves are being
made and we'll see what happens. But guys, appreciate each
and every one of y'all for watching this episode. If
you've stayed throughout this whole episode, truly appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:38):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:04:38):
A lot of effort goes into these podcasts and a
lot of work goes into researching on the topics and
deciding what to talk about, getting knowledgeable information about each
player's salary cap information, all that stuff. So I definitely
appreciate all of you for saying sticking through the whole
NBA Trade Deadline special, And of course, if you've enjoyed
this episode, go ahead and leave a review, drop a
rating on the podcast, And if you're not following a

(02:05:00):
subscribe please go ahead and do that of course, because
you know you can get some of the best NBA
coverage here. And hopefully you enjoy your Super Bowl Sunday.
By the time you're listening to this the game, you
might be getting ready to actually listen or watch the game.
So hopefully you guys have a great Super Bowl Sunday.
Be safe, of course, and guys, until next time, I'm out.

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