THE DALLAS MAVERICKS TRADED LUKA DONCIC TO THE LAKERS FOR ANTHONY DAVIS!! WHAT??

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on? Everybody? You Welcome to the KBR Sports Podcast.
You even know, the best sports podcast ever your twenty four
hour day. This is a very impromptu podcast. Honestly, the
news regarding that we're covering is honestly warrants it because
this is such a huge blockbuster deal that really I
don't think we've seen in the modern era of basketball
that really causes the whole basketball world, NBA, Twitter, the

(00:21):
Twitter literally froze and I couldn't access Twitter for about
a good ten minutes because of the fact this deal.
Everybody was just trying to get to Twitter to confirm
if it was real or not. But we're talking about
the Luka Doncics trade, a trade that sends Luka Doncic
to the Los Angeles Lakers along with Maxi, Kleeber, and
Marky Morris, and then in return, the Mavericks are getting

(00:43):
Anthony Davis, Max Christi and the Lakers twenty twenty nine
first round pick where and then the Jazz get Jalen
Hood Schafino, the twenty twenty five Clippers second round pick
that comes from the Lakers, and the Mavericks twenty twenty
five second round pick. And it's funny because the Utah
Jazz had done like a little self trade beforehand, and
then you can imagine that that was to clear some

(01:04):
of the money to make this trade viable, because they
had done a trade involving PJ.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Tucker and stuff from the Clippers.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
So you can kind of see that this this trade
was being worked on throughout the weekend, and we reached
this point where Saturday night, Saturday night, it just hit
a fever pitch and everything went crazy. But obviously I
got I had to talk about this news. It's such
a huge news. How to bring my guy snackkeel Oldmeal
on to talk about it all? Brother? How we live in,
how we feeling?

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Man, I'm glad I was.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Were we up together when when PG.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Broke, When PG quiet to the Clippers broke, I think
we were.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
We might have been. I It's funny. I think back
then I might have been living and I was living
in my old apartment. We might have been online talking
to each other or something when it happened.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
I don't remember, you know what we were And I
was literally about to get offline. I remember I was
about to get off and I think you told me
that Kawhi signed I think I was gonna happen first,
but I think it was like Kawi signed and we
were talking about that, and then it like immediately got
it out right after that that that PG got traded. Yeah,

(02:15):
and we were losing it for that and now it's
kind of like a crazy deal. So we were to
like four o'clock, three, three, four o'clock.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Talking about the straight yesterday.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Literally, yeah, mind you have broken.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Well, we talked about that game for about four three
four hours just talking about because it was such a
crazy deal.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
It is. It is honestly insane because we've never had
a situation like this where a guy who has accomplished
as much as Lucas accomplished in terms of all NBA teams,
NBA Finals appearance, Western Conference Finals, you know all that,
all those things, the Western Conference Finals appearances, all Star Games,
all these different things, and him being even at the

(02:54):
time of how good Kawhi Leonard was and having just
won a championship for the Toronto Raptors. And it's weird
because evaluating that Clippers trade. I even told you yesterday
that evaluating that Clippers trade is weird because I know,
the straight up, when you look at the numbers and
how it stacks up. You're showing Paul George these first
round picks and first round pick swaps for Sga, Dane

(03:15):
La Gallinari and some other players, But then when you're
looking at you have to kind of include Kawhi Leonard
in that, because Kawhi was not going to come to
the Clippers unless that trade was being made. So it's
kind of a weird ordeal. But even with how good
Kawhi was at the time, we've never had a guy
that was literally has ever reached what you would imagine
would be his apex in terms of physical ability right now.

(03:37):
Lucas twenty five years old and he's already done all
those things, fresh off of an NBA Finals appearance not
even eight months ago, and for him to be traded
and what was what felt like a team that was
gearing up from last year, signing Klay Thompson and trying
to make a run this year, what they might have
felt like they could have been in a better position
to try and go at the finals again, and then

(03:59):
you see this trade break. It's just it's mind boggling.
I mean, last time I think a player was this good,
Maybe what you might say, the Kareem Abdua Jabbar trade,
that's how but that's not even modern era of basketball.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Charles Barkley, he wanted to be the year he got traded.
He when if he got from he went from Phoenix,
I mean from the seventy six ers to the to
the sun running VP as soon as he got there.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
But do you I don't. I don't think Chuck was
like the prospect that Chuck had was as was as
was as bright as Lucas is currently, or even like
Kareem at the time. I because Korean yeals.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
I came into the finals.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Did he finished second in M the year but the
year before he got he was like upset the year
before that, which is when he asked for the trade.
The year before that he finished second in M. Yeah,
so it was like Chuck was like one of the
best players in the league. I mean in terms of
like I mean, it depends on what you mean, like
in terms of like prospects. I mean, he was like
in elgue, top top five player, probably top seven per year.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
That's what Kareem was arguably the best player in the
league at the time when he got traded. That's why
I'm like I don't think it's like there was nobody
talking about Charles Barkley was better than Michael Jordan or
you know what I mean, So that like Luca is
in that conversation. I mean with Nicole j you don't think.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
I think I think most people consider I mean, he
could be anywhere from to to four.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
I don't think.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
But I think if you're if you're talking about him
being better than y I think you beamed.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I think if Luca went and won a championship, I
think the conversation would become a I mean more open conversation.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
If they won a championship last year, you still need
to be examined. You think Luca's better than than than
I'm sorry, I.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Mean, I think is the best player in the NBA, obviously,
But the fact that I don't think that, I think
where the placements down from where Luca is in terms
of correlation to Jokis or even Giannis, it's not it's
not even comparable to where Barkley was in comparison to Jordan.
And then from where you're comparing Kareem, and then who
was the next guy, next guy after Kareem. That's what

(06:26):
I'm saying I don't think that we've had this type
of deal since then. I've thought about it. I've looked
it up different trades. I can't find one that's even
close to be to be real in terms of news
breaking the Internet just shaking and falling apart. I think
the last big moment, I mean, what did you say?

Speaker 3 (06:50):
It's completely different era.

Speaker 4 (06:51):
I mean this is like, I mean this.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Was I think I was talking about it earlier. This
is top top three moment in on NBA Twitter.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Easily, Yeah, because you gotta think.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
I think Kevin Durant going to Golden State was I
literally remember that day like I was.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
I'm still like, I'm still living it.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I don't even just say that the top three.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Really, Now, what are your top three.

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Decisions? Kobe? And then this?

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Okay, I guess I'm talking more about player transit. Yeah, yeah, that.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
Those those were the three like like those three to me,
like JA like Kevin Durranton was crazy. But it's kind
of like like I don't know, we already knew he
was leaving. Did It's just kind of like the war.
I don't think it was I don't know who thought
he was going back to Okay, I I thought he was.

(07:50):
I thought he was gone, gone like it wasn't even
just it was not coming back.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
It was not I mean he even said that it
was between Okay See going back to OKAYC and Golden State.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
It's just like it's just like the decision. He just
love going back.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
I remember at the time, it was a big shock.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
A lot of people thought he might go back to
Oka See, especially just they had got I mean, they
both him and Russ Blew.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
Blew that Western Conference Finals. But we're getting we're getting
off the roads.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
But in terms of in terms of this trade though,
the crazy thing when you're looking at the background of
how this trade happens and we're talking about what comes
to reality with this trade, because apparently the Mavericks reached
out to the Lakers proposing this trade, asking if Anthony
Davis is available for trade. And this this goes to
the relationship that Mavericks GM Nico Harrison has with Ra Polinka.

(08:39):
Nico Harrison was the Nike rep I believe at the
time when he was trying when he got Kobe to
come from Adidas to Nike, and Ra Polenka was Kobe's
agent and so obviously They've had a relationship for years
in terms of negotiating different deals and all this stuff
dating back years, and so naturally it's an easy phone

(09:00):
call to go and try and have this happen. And
it's funny you're looking at Rap Paulinka and the Nico
Harrison talking about it happening. Nico says when he proposed
it to Rob, like at first, Rob wasn't really believing
that it was something that he would really want to do.
Like Rob felt like he was being prankd Essentially, he says,
all of a sudden, He's like, would you ever do this?
And says It says that these conversations they were having

(09:22):
basketball conversations more than a month ago, and it says
he says, all of a sudden, he was like, would
you ever do this? And he says, nah, You're you're joking, right,
And then he says, hmm, interesting, maybe I would. And
then Harrison said, and then it just built over time
over the last three weeks, and it says a person
familiar with the Mavericks thinking told the Dallas News that

(09:42):
Harrison got full support from team governor Patrick Dumont in
the weeks leading to the trade and when it was
time to pull the trigger on late Saturday night. So
the background of how this happens is interesting because obviously
you have that relationship. When you look at the fold,
especially when you look at that you consider this that
they no other teams were brought in, and there was

(10:04):
a report from I believe Sam Amock that only one
other team was contacted about it, and apparently that that
that other team put an offer up that the Mavericks
were not interested in, and it just wasn't. It wasn't
something that they thought was feasible. And me and you
have me and you even when this broke last night,

(10:24):
talked about the fact that when when Nico Harrison outlined
his reasons for this trade and his mind his thought process,
he explicitly says that I believe that defense wins championships,
and he says, I believe getting an all defensive center
and an All NBA player with defensive mindsets gives us
a better chance were built to win in the short
term and even better in the future. And when we

(10:46):
both heard that, we were like, okay, the only other team.
It makes sense that these dudes reached out to that
possibly could even we have this conversation about would have
been the Milwaukee Bucks because the only player that you
even can bring to this conversation in terms of a
defensive because there's obviously that San Antonio Spurs are not
going to move off of Webby, right unless maybe they

(11:08):
did contact them say hey you guys, but that would
have been that that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
I you could say they did contact the Spurs and
see if like Luca for Wemby, would happen. I mean,
I would I think the Maps get lapped off the phone.
But yeah, probably, I mean I think you, I think
they and see like hey, like I mean, you know
what's going on here?

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, it's possible.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
I The only person I think would have been realistic though,
was Gianni's, especially because Janni's has openly made statements and
quotes about wanting to be a part of a championship team,
how badly he wants to win, and there's been rumblings
about Gianni's possibly being a trade target within Milwaukee within
the next year or two, and so naturally you would
have looked at that situation.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
You could imagine Milwaukee.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
He fits the defensive bill, even though he's not good
as good offensively as Luca uh as an all around player.
Giannie is better, I probably would say, And so you're
looking at the you're looking at that and that's probably
the only other team I can imagine and hold them.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
I hope you meant to say defensively, No, I.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Said all around, like including defense.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
You think, Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Yeah, I just I just said he's not He's not
as good as him offensively, Okay, as good as Luca offense.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
I just said that maybe not as good. Okay, you
know what I miss heard. My brain stopped working as
soon as I heard it. And okay, but you clarify yourself,
you're you're again.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
This guy. But that's the only other other team I
can imagine. They probably contacted off rip and it seems
like the reason that's the reason why they limited it
to the And I just that's funny enough. I recorded
a separate video about this, but I just was talking
about the fact that I think the mindset of why
other teams weren't included in this is because of the

(13:03):
fact that because that's one of the biggest reactions. That's
why a lot of people thought it was fake. Because
you see the trade initially and you're like that you
feel as though normally you hear these trades and you're
seeing all these picks be included and all these different assets,
and it's like almost half the roster is being sent.
But then when you just saw, like Anthony Davis Max
Christy in a first round pick, so many people are like,
broh huh, And especially when it's a first round pick

(13:25):
on the team that Luca Doncis would possibly be playing on.
You're looking at it and you're like, excuse me that
the value of that pick isn't as the context, that
isn't the same as it was just like literally a
month ago when you were thinking about forty year old
Lebron James and Anthony Davis being the spearhead of your team.
So now you're looking at that and people are like,
how the heck were those the only teams that were involved?

(13:47):
Or how is that only the only team that you
didn't even shock this around to the rest of the
league and my thought process was their target. Nico said
they wanted Anthony Davis, and all the after reports have
been that they I've been checking in on Anthony Davis.
The Mavericks have been with the Lakers to see if
what the availability of Antie Davis was and because they
had a specific target in mind, they didn't I don't

(14:10):
think they wanted the rest of the league to catch
win because if the rest of the league also knows
maybe that Anthony Davis is available, you don't know what
offers the Lakers will start getting. Granted, my mindset is
that there's no offer that's going to be anything that
Luca Doncis isn't included in.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
So for the Lakers, it's an easy deal.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
But I mean, what do you think about that standpoint
about the whole prospect and of the Mavericks really limiting
their scope to just the Lakers and possibly one other team.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
This does not help the like the league is rigging
the standings or like the league is like pushing certain
players to certain.

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Teams does not help them at all?

Speaker 3 (14:47):
With that, does Anthony, do you want just one singular
player over like potentially maybe like a slightly lesser player,
but more depth kind of like you know, if you
get like, like let's say you get a good four
in like two like great bench pieces and then picks
on top of that, is that is that a better

(15:08):
package for the team you have currently built?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Well?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
That this this has been my thing.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
I've I know a lot of people say like they're
going to offer and this goes This is a similar
way it goes twofold with the Lakers, because as many
people have wanted the Lakers to trade Anthony Davis or
whatever move, I've always said, it doesn't make sense unless
you're getting this type of trade back, just going back
and getting pieces like people put so much stock and
picks and pick swaps and stuff, and they're valuable pieces,

(15:37):
don't get me wrong, But when you see the picks
actually become to realization, sometimes it's like, oh, well that
that player didn't pan out or whatever the case might be,
Like there was nothing that really came of it, and
it's like it's almost like the unknown of a draft
pick is so much more sexier in the possibilities of
what it could become that people become so enamored by it.
But if you're if you're a team that's in the

(15:58):
situation where you're trying to win currently or you're trying
to start a rebuild for a superstar caliber talent, which
both these guys are, you can't you don't really want
to just get back like pieces like just you want
to get back another player that's either gonna help you
in immediately or a player that's going to be a
foundation to help you go in the future and win.
That's really what you wait for in these type of

(16:20):
moments like this is. To me, this was a very
obviously for the Mavericks unless you wanted that other first
round pick the Lakers have. I feel like this was
an ideal situation of how these trades.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Are supposed to pan out.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
But granted, I think the other the other standpoint of
this that does make it a bit weird though, is
that Luca didn't request the trade. So with Luca not
requesting the trade, you would think that maybe the Mavericks
could have, like when you when you when I play
your request to trade, that the team has less leverage, right,
And so with Luca not requesting the trade, it is

(16:53):
a bit weird that you don't end up trying to
explore the market to drive up the price in some
regard for the Mavericks on Luka Doncic in some in
some respect, especially if another team might have a discrunto
star or something like that, that they would have been
willing to move. Granted, maybe they they knew the situation
in the league and didn't feel like anybody would have
been as appeasing as an Anthony Davis or whomever that

(17:14):
one other team had. I don't know, it's just interesting
to think about, to be honest.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean even if you're even if your target
is the like Anthony Davis, like it doesn't maybe you
squeeze something else out of the Lakers, you know, as
opposed to just Max. I mean kind of Max Christy too,
which is a good pick up as well, but like
just just Max Christy in the first round, Like maybe
maybe you do squeeze out another tick. Maybe you squeeze
out another like role player or something. Maybe you squeeze

(17:42):
out like something else, you know, just like I don't know,
just going there and just working in silence and then
like no, like again, no other offer, no other like
dating war than nothing. Just we want Anthony Davis. We're
not trading them any we're not looking for anybody else.
We're not looking to facilitate like the three team deal
to make something else work. Maybe, like I mean, you
just never know who, like because I don't know, maybe

(18:03):
you just don't never know who's on the table when
you hear like when you hear Luka Doncis is available
with like you never know somebody in that we probably
would have build a franchise around. But hey, for Luca
Dancis will do it.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
But who's even a list of players?

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Like who on that list of players do people look
at when that trade is done and say, okay? And
that makes sense?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
The short list, I mean, like, I guess you'd be
like Scotty.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Barnes Evan Mobley.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Honestly, I don't think Chet would be touchable, wouldn't be
wouldn't be touchable fourth and other pieces that would be
available would have to be like it's a short list
going wrong, and.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
That's the thing that and guys that actually uplift your defense,
because that seems like that was one of the key
metrics of what the Mavericks were operating under. I mean
even Jason Kidd didn't know about this deal apparently, So
with that being the key measures of what you're you're
moving under, it's like, yeah, you need a guy that
has all NBA potential defensively and could be, like I guess,

(18:57):
be a twenty twenty six per game type of guy
on the offensive side, which is what Anthony Davis is
because when you're looking at when when you kind of
use that filter in that criteria, the list does become
very very very thin because a lot of these other guys,
Like even when you're naming guys like Evan Mobley and
whom else you said, you said chat, I don't know

(19:19):
you said Scottie barn Are those guys are younger players
and Anthony Davis.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
No, they're not. They're not better, But I guess it's
like I don't know this. They We're gonna talk about
it later too. Like this puts you on like a
two year window basically, right, And because I mean, do
you think, I mean a thirty five year old Kyrie
is going to be in a good enough second option
to win your championship?

Speaker 1 (19:47):
I doubt it.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, So it's like you kind of got like a
two year window and ad A, he's not not. Like
obviously we both think that the injury prone okay on
him is kind of kind of exaggerated at this point,
but it is like he does pick up Nick Knack
injuries here and there, and it's like he's not gonna
it's not gonna get better as he gets older. Yeah,

(20:11):
And on top of that play, who's thirty, thirty five,
thirty six. You have a very a very small window
of time as a thirty four. He's thirty four. He's
talk to thirty five in six days, so he kind
of it is like, you have, you have young pieces,
you have like Derek Lively, but you're not You're not

(20:32):
building a franchise around Derrick Clively. So it's like you
kind of traded your decade plus long window for a
two year, three year window and that's kind of tough.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Do you what do you think about the claims because
I guess this is the micet they had.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
From the Mavericks.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
From the Mavericks standpoint, they didn't think the window was
whatever amount of years with Luca like they I guess
they felt like on the surface, it's a lot of
there's a lot of nice table dressing. Because of the
fact that they've been trying to get Luca in shape
for years now and trying to have him get to
a situation where he's conditioned coming into the season, and

(21:12):
now that he picked up the cash strain, some people
feel as though he came into a season after winning
a championship where other guys like you have like the peak.
The premier guys that have been those dudes on championship
teams or even championship losing teams have come back the
next season with a level of hunger where they elevated
their physical fitness and all this stuff. And whereas Luca
came into this season, they feel out of out of condition,

(21:36):
and so now you're you're you're the Mavericks. They're thinking, well,
if we can't get this guy to be actually, if
after a loss in the NBA Finals, you're not coming
in showing that you care, you want to be that
much better because you want to be in shape like
a guy like Lebron, like a guy like Kobe, like
Giannis Yokiic, even because it's funny because Yo Kic, despite

(21:56):
outward appearance like Yo Kisch is a very well conditioned
player and he is just his body type and this
makes him look like he's not, but well, Jokic is
very well conditioned. And so when people are looking at
those other guys and they're seeing that Luca is struggling
to stay on the court because they think that his
body isn't prepped to play eighty two games because he's
not training it like that in the offseason. Then you

(22:17):
come in, they're thinking that that window is like a
facade window. I guess you could say, because they don't
think that Luca would have been able to lead them there,
because one, he has defensive deficiencies that I sent a
post in chat about that where someone said, this is
the series that led to Luca donc just getting traded
And it's just pretty much the Celtics just attacking him

(22:37):
over and over and over again and showing the glaring
weaknesses that he has defensively and not even from the
vantage point of like he's just like he's putting in
the effort or and he's just not athletic enough to
play defense. Like it's just bad. He's just playing bad defensively.
It's just bad defense. And maybe that's the mindset that
the Mavericks. I mean, do you think that's enough for

(22:59):
them to be like the reason to move off of Luca.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
No, it don't be so real. No, you're with that
one sweet out there where it's like mahomes out here
about the winning second ring on a bad ankle and
my quarterbacks in the cabin with no power smoking crack. Listen, bro,
Lucas come out on tomorrow and make him say he's
a drug lord.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
I'm not trading Luca. I don't care. I do not.
I don't care if he shows up three hundred pounds.
I'm not trading Luka doncics. I don't care if it's
a facade. I don't care if that room was a fluke,
I do not care. I'm not trading him. I am
not trading a at worst third to fourth best player

(23:44):
in the league, guy who was second or no. Her
third MVP vote last year. A lot of people thought
he should have won it with the wrong but he
thought he should.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Have won it.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
You go out in the off season, get a better team,
and then say we're gonna trade I get, I get
the whole, like old conditioning thing. It's just not enough
for me to say this level. But we're not talking
about a good player. We're I'm talking about a great player.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
We are in This.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Word is thrown around a lot, but this is genuinely
described Luca. He's a generational player. He is doing things
that no other player.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
Has done in the league so far.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
I like, unless that kind of guy wants out, I
just don't. Or there's thumb injury, there that's gonna come
out in like I don't know two years that he
has like the generative needs or like he doesn't have
a meniscus or something, I don't know, something crazy. Unless
that kind of story comes out.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
This is to me, you don't trade that kind of
guy because it's just like guy.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Said, you've traded a ten year window. When you have
a guy like Luca, Luca is like how Lebron was.
It's gonna be at that point where it's like you
put a team around him, he will get you to
the playoffs and depending on matchup, he can make you
a run just off the just off the greatness of him.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Alone on offense. Right, because he has series.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Last year listen to okay c series. Yeah, let me
tell you, this technology disappeared. This technology is outage almost
fifteen points a game, and they win the series because
he plays phenomenal and also with his pressure PJ and
okay SE's game plans. PJ. Washington has the series of
his life. Then he goes into Minnesota, plays phenomenal again

(25:42):
and then even in the finals, listen, they weren't beating Boston.
Tough tough matchup, tough series. It's an awful matchup for them.
Even before the series it was a baffle match.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
So so it's like, I don't know. I just think
this is like such a like a horribly short sided move.
And I get, like I said, I get the whole concern.
Oh but listen, man, I'm not sitting here in two
thousand and two and saying, man, Shackie came into he
came in the training camp, fat, get out, not doing it.

(26:16):
You're too good, You're just too good. Listen, if it's
Michael ol mcandi, get out. If it's like I don't know,
some other centers, get out, Joepher's Billups, get out. Shack
stay right here. And and to be fair, I said
the same thing about Zion. I think I have mentioned
I would not trade Zion m I just think that

(26:40):
like that level.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
I don't know if I have if I may not
have not.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
I don't know how much we talked about Zion, and
I'm kind of like gone kind of like back and forth.
But I think at the end of the day, I've
kind of stayed on the side of like the guy
is too talented, he's too good to be like, just
trade them because you're not didin' anything for Zion at
this point, he's his trade by you absolutely nothing, And

(27:05):
it's like, I don't know, guys like that, you trade them,
it comes back to haunt you when they like turn
it around, like and sometimes they don't. Joellingbis is a
great example of sometimes your body just does not work.
It just doesn't work out for you. Yeah, but that
offense that it's just like you miss you miss games
and then you're healthy. I mean, look Anthony Davids early career, right,

(27:27):
we didn't see it like it was like, oh, if
you was not gonna make a sewer season, if it's
gonna be inentury prone the rest of his career, and
then he turns you around. Yeah, it's just when and
when you see like and when Zion, when Zion has played,
when Luca has played, those guys are just too good
to just be like, yeah, we are gonna trade you
for you know, I don't know, like I were like

(27:52):
just wor worst talent. It's gonna put us in like
a worst position long term. I do if Luca was
like thirty yeah, and that's where I'm like thirty thirty is,
I'd be like, yeah, go ahead, trade them away. At
that point because it's like you've suck it out long term,
just get rid of them. But I don't know twenty

(28:13):
five twenty five m.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
No, And that's that's exactly where I'm at this trade.
I think that's why everybody, like literally the whole NBA
landscape thought it was a hack that Sham Shams had
gotten hacked, because nobody believed that a trade like this
was conceivable because of the fact of all the things
you outlined.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
Those type of players.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Man, when you get these type of players, they like
the NBA people are everybody is feverishly praying to get
a Luka Jokic Giannis type of archetype type of player,
right And it is something that even even now, like
a guy that's trying to kind of bring himself into
that conversation is a guy like SGA. He's still on

(28:55):
the outskirts of it, but he's trying to get himself
into I mean, he's playing with like crazy right now,
trying to put himself in that same conversation. And if
he makes a run this year, then maybe we can
talk about that for him. But I think SGA is
the favorite to win the MVP right now. Actually, so
MVP caliper talent right there. But when you pray to
get those type of guys, obviously a Webbie and I,

(29:16):
like you said, I think you liken Luca's game the
most to Lebron, not as good Luca offensively.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
You could make the case.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Luca he's a better peer shooter than Lebron was at
the same time, same age thing, you know, frame and
in terms of play making, Luca the stuff he does,
but I think Lebron is an all around player, especially
when you include the defensive capability, all all around athleticism.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Lebron was better.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
But I think like the stuff Lucas able to do
offensively is just insane, and like he can lift the floor.
I don't want him to sound like I'm re re
echoing your points here, but he's he's one of the
best floor raisers in the NBA. I probably say it
outside of Nicola Jokic right now, he's probably the best
floor raiser in terms of put a bunch of scrubs
around him, put a bunch of scrubs around him, a

(29:58):
bunch of dudes that can shoot, a bunch of dudes
that can you know, that can run to run to
the rim and somehow he will turn that into a
deep playoff run like them even making it to the
Western Conference finals two years ago was insane. And I
sit here and I'm like, Bro, you have one of
those players before they even hit their peak and then

(30:19):
you trade them away, and I just the odds of
being able to replace that is just it's just mind
boggling to me. Like, I mean, I go, you can't
really replace that. Those these guys are born like a
diamond doesn't. Like literally, a generational talent is not something
that once unless that player says they want to go.
You just don't do that, man, And I get I

(30:40):
get there. They're concerned about the Supermax, and the super
Max does play a weird role in today's NBA because
it's really the stern sign of commitment from a franchise
to a player. And there's a reason why when players
signed a Supermax. I think the in terms of since
the Supermax became a thing, the only players traded under
a Superman And correct me if I'm wrong. My memories

(31:02):
mistreating me here would be Bradley Bull, Damian Lillard and
the other week And I think maybe I don't know
if James Harden has signed it. But I think James
Harden he didn't sign a super Max.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
I don't think he signed the superos.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, I'm trying to remember if in his last like
one of his last few seasons in Houston, if he
has signed a super Max, if he was one of
the first guys to sign it, and then he got traded.
But those are the marquee guys that I can think
of that has signed a super And it's in large
part is also because a super Max is just once
you're Once a player signs it, it is so much
money and takes up so much cap space on your
team that unless when a guy signs that contract the

(31:43):
team you have when they're currently there, you're essentially betting
on that team to be able to go win a
championship because most likely all those players currently there and
so on you have their bird rights too.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
You can exceed the cap.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
But now there's even more luxury tax impediments on the
team that when you're seeding the luxury tax bracket, you
pretty much a relatively can strung and can't make any
deals to improve your team the way James Harden did. Okay,
so yeah, those are like the players off the top
of my mind that's assigned a super mass and got traded,

(32:15):
and it's just so few and far between that. I mean, granted,
a few players are going to get a super Max
like contract, but in the scenario where you're going to
trade them are going to be so limited because it's
an ultimate form of commitment from both sides of the deal.
And so the Mavericks, I guess that's what scared them away.
But man, if if this was Luca out of shape
all these years, if this was Luca doing all this

(32:37):
stuff out of shape, I'm like, bro, I don't know.
I don't know, man, I know, I guess if they're
they're worried that he just won't be able to stay
on the court, and they're worried his health is only
going to get worse because he's out of shape, I guess.
But when he's been able to do what they've been
doing for the last the last seven years and Lucas
and Lucas career, this is just this is just a

(33:00):
crazy or I mean, right now, before the trade happened,
where would you have said the Mavericks were in the
Western Conference.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
That's a great question. You're not better than the thunder
I don't think they're better than Nuggets. I think they're
better than the grizz Leaves. I think they're on. I
think they're about the same. I don't think they're better
than the Rockets. So what third, third, fourth?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
Pretty bad? I think thunder gap Nuggets would have been
gaped and then like a tier of like Maverick griz
Mavericks Grizzly fighting for a third and fourth that worse fo.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
I definitely think because the Wolves took a stumble after
doing the cat trade, obviously they're not in the same
ballpark discussion that they were last year. I definitely think, Okay,
see what is the is the top team Nuggets, I
look it's gonna ride with Yokis manh. Yeah. But I
think the matchups make the fights now the West, I
think it's on. The West is so deep now matchups

(34:03):
generally do matter, and so depending on that, I think
the most versatile teams that when I was looking at
from a matchup perspective would have been Okay, see the Nuggets, Rockets,
even though Rockets, I gotta see those also in those
young that young team play in the playoffs as well.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
But I don't believe that. Like they're they're the prototypical
ugly offensive team, great defense that looks phenomenal in the
in the regular season. Then they get to the playoffs,
their offense is still trash, but everybody else raises their defense,
and so their offense gets even worse and their defense
is now just like the same level of everybody else. Yeah,

(34:41):
I think they're I think they're not that good. Yes,
I think even if if the playoffs need to not
be shocked at the Temple will beat the Rockets in
the playoffs at all.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, especially because when you look at shot creation, I
think the Timberwolves just have more shot creation as well
than than than the Rockets right now and in the playoffs.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Off thirty game and you're supposed to you're supposed to
tell me that's real. No, I'm sorry, he dropped. He
dropped forty was the way? Yeah, he dropped thirty? What
thirty six against the Celtics a fake It's a fake game. Like, yeah,
I'm not come on, You're you're relying on don't get

(35:24):
me sad. I'm gonna start on jail for me today,
Like you're relying on Daylan Brooks I'm in Toms.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
I like them.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
I like them in top Emon Tomson, but uh, outside
of that, like I don't know Jalen Greens. Uh no,
they're not real. I'm not gonna we'll talk about that
in the day.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
They're not real. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
It's like then you look at that and you.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Go down from there, and then it's like, Okay, now
you're talking about like the Lakers, you're talking about the Clippers.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
And and that and that bunch of things.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
I think the Mavericks are the team that I would
put at the top of out of all those teams,
even though right now the Mavericks are sitting that ninth,
but granted, Luca hasn't been available since Christmas, so and
I think I saw the matchup the lineup of Luca, Kyrie,
PJ Washington, Derek Lively, and I don't remember who else
it was, but Klay Thompson has only played fourteen games

(36:16):
together just due to injuries keeping one of the guys
out of the lineup. So right now, when you're looking
at that, I do think that team before the trade
deadline was still one of the stronger teams in the
Western Conference, depending on how the matchup falls now, I
after the deadline, and I guess we can. We talked
about the background from the Maverick standpoint, but I guess

(36:36):
we haven't. Before we even get to talking about how
teams look afterwards. We haven't been talked about the Lakers
side of things, because if you're the Lakers and you're
making this deal, I would say that from the Lakers standpoint,
I mean, it's an obvious no brainer for the Lakers
if somebody calls you and is offering you the bridge
between Lebron James and your next ten years of stardom, right, Like,

(36:58):
I think that's pretty obvious.

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Disregards anything else about the straight no matter what. I
don't even like, no matter what happens, it's a w
tra for Lakers no matter what, and not even even
even court wise.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
You get Lucas ten years, get like, that's great, just
in terms of like stars, like the star power. Right,
Lakers are again the.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Like the big franchise.

Speaker 3 (37:25):
You have Luca, you can fit and you can work
around that. No matter what other teams have to build
themselves up. The Lakers are like, hey, we have Luca,
will come here, work something out.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
You know.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
It's just like it just puts yourself, You put yourself
in such a phenomenal position. Laker's been god off of
a billion teams.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
And this just takes. It takes.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
If Rob Lake has less to do now because Luca's here,
you don't have to worry about, oh, what are we
gonna do after Brown retires and we just have a
d what are we going to do?

Speaker 4 (38:02):
I don't worry about it no more.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
You got your you got your spen years. Garys would
happen like new Garrets, what happens now? Because like somebody
will come and play with Luca?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
And what are what are the odds you think that
Luca re signs? Do you think there's any any doubt
in that? No?

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Locked in.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
For sure?

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, I mean like I don't know where would the
thought is like where we go?

Speaker 4 (38:29):
You're not gonna go to some.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Team that's not good. I don't think, like I guess
like the one team I would be like, oh, would
be like the Spurs, which I mean I think that's
just where everybody would be like, yo, let's like let's
link up. But like outside of that, where if he
like where if he really is he gonna go to
Toronto to play with Scottie Barnes. Is he gonna go
to the Pistons to play with Cage? Like, no, you's

(38:53):
got a guy of those places?

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Come on, what do you go to Miami?

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Is he gonna go Miami? Is an interesting one.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
That that was one of the things. This this I'm
actually it's so crazy because in doing the research for
the d Aaron Fox stuff, when that news was coming out,
you just start to realize some teams were genuinely preparing
cap space waiting for Luca to become available in free agency.
And now that this is the reality with Luca's contract,
you can see that a lot of teams, unless the

(39:20):
Lakers are able to get him to sign an extension beforehand,
a lot of teams are going to be having cap
space just waiting. They were all waiting for this man
to become available. It's like the twenty when was Lebron
a free agent? Was twenty twelve or the twenty eleven, sorry,
twenty ten summer when everybody was waiting for Lebron to
become a free agent.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
But then it's like it also is like do you
when you do you have the pieces? It was like,
now I will say that he do have the pieces.
I mean you have Hero, you have where who's looking phenomenal,
you have Bam. So I mean they have the pieces,
they have the coach. It's like, okay, the heat would
be one that would there you go, that's.

Speaker 4 (39:54):
The list the heat.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
You'd imagine the Spurs are trying to make somebody.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
No, yeah, the first but it's like, I imagine is it
next year?

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yes? Next year?

Speaker 3 (40:07):
If they don't, I mean they seem locked in on
trying to get somebody, like kind of like right now
they I mean, if they don't get hearing Box Maybee,
you see them really make a hard push. If you
get the ear Box right now while you still have
Wenby under a contract, he's what two more years before
he signs an extension. It's like you can kind of
fit another star underneath underneath that.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, I mean if you wait for and it's it's
interesting because this kind of puts the Lakers, even though
I think most people realize the Lakers probably now this
means they're punning on the season. I think that the
rationale for the Lakers is that you I don't think
the Lakers, by most most accounts, unless you've got a
very favorable matchup in the playoffs in which you just

(40:52):
somehow didn't have to play the Denver Nuggets at all.
But even in that scenario, I think that they would
have lost to a team like Okay See. And I
think that for the Lakers, prospects of winning a championship
this season was a stretch and for them to essentially
now reset their clock. That's the mentality, is that if
you didn't believe you're gonna win a championship this year

(41:14):
or even next year with this core of players, and
they were in a situation where they didn't want to
move off those draft picks because those draft picks with
the looming Lebron retirement possibly and then Ad has never
shown that he could be a guy that's going to
really lead a team to being like a fifty sixty
win team type of deal where those draft picks are irrelevant.

(41:35):
Those draft picks were the strongest asset that they had,
I guess, And it's one of those situations. Now that
you make this deal, the Lakers are now entirely you're
in a flip flip situation because now that same draft
pick in twenty thirty one, I can imagine the Lakers
are now calling teams about a legitimate defensive big man
that can play that role, moving different pieces, because now

(41:55):
you have Luca and the Lakers essentially have to make
their own pitch now to day Luca wanting to resign
there in the next the next season, after next season,
rather and hoping that he they provide enough value that
he'll want to be there. And I mean, I can
imagine that what you have. You have your twenty thirty
one pick. You can now go and make a deal

(42:16):
to get a big with that pick. But do you
think they would have to or do you think the
Lakers are going to be more willing with this deal
then now to move Austin Reeves or what are the
guys that you think are going to be in the
mix in terms of who the Lakers, Because I'm pretty
sure every team is calling about Austin. That's the number one,
number one person.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
But yeah, yeah, I don't know if they're I don't
think will I think no, I think you keep Austin.
I think you I think you look to move, you
will move? Really, yeah, they have a lot of.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Furs on the for the defensive standard.

Speaker 3 (42:47):
You're not moving, Phinnise Smith, You're I mean nobody's gonna
take cameras. Let's just be honest here. So I don't
think that's not going anywhere. So I mean, really you have, really,
you have Jared, you have Gabe's Christian Woods. That's that's

(43:09):
like your four players. You can move ideally, I don't
even know do you want to get rid of your banda?
But I don't think you want to be rid of.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
I don't think. I mean, I think that you need
I think that the key players that you need to
keep in order for this roster to work, especially in
the in the prospect if Lebron retires anytime, so you
cannot just like it's I know some people are gonna
say you can move Austin now that you have both them,
but Lebron's not going to be a forever playmaker, and
then you can end up in a situation like this
is almost the ideal that you had when you had

(43:39):
when you had Jalen Brunson backing up Luca and you
have that other ball handling guy. Obviously Jalen wasn't at
the level of where he is now with the Knicks,
but you you have Austin Reees, a guy that can
initiate offense. So even in the in the point where
Lebron does retire, you still have another playmaker shot creator
alongside Lucas. Luca doesn't have to deal, deal or shoulder

(44:02):
that entire burden by himself, which is what he was
doing up until Kyrie got there and right before Jalen
had left. And so now you go and you make
you keep I think you have to keep Austin. You
can you can flex some of that that that logjam
at forward to make something happen, whether and I mean
I think do you I would agree that I think
that or at least I would say that. I think

(44:23):
big is their biggest point of addressing that they need
right like having a legit rim protector.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Said he wants to heat.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
They're they're obviously hard focused on finding an athletic rim
running big m hm. So I mean the problem is
that is just not that like actual good rim running big.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
I saw Claxton from the nets you had last Turner.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
They have eases to get Claxton. That thing for camp
Johnson was kind of crazy after the say, one of
like two first rounders for cam Johnson alone, mm hmm.
And I imagine they want probably what a first, and
it's like some a young player, and I don't think

(45:14):
they like, you're not you're not going connect them. So
it's like, I don't know who you're getting, Like they're
not gonna like really doesn't like what were we gonna
do them? Because that's just the exact same thing as
Cam Johnson, just worse. I think they call the Raptors
about Potal I think they call I don't know. Maybe
they reach back out to the Math and talk about
Gaffard and work another deal out the running athletic I mean,

(45:41):
I mean injury issues we'll kind of underside and six nine.
I would think you'd be the perfecting for them. I
just don't think that they're gonna get You're not getting
You're not getting them out of bay Age like you
are out of your mind. If you think he's trading
for nothing, like you better be well, you better be
ready to pay up.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Would you let go Connect in that scenario?

Speaker 3 (46:07):
I personally, if I can wait how many years left
if he have? I think if I could get an
exten you have two years left on four years of Connect.
If I can get an extension out of Tesler, I
would talk. I mean, dude, he he kind of just

(46:31):
it's perfect for what they want. Eleven and eleven in
twenty and thirty minutes seventy two percent from the field.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
He would be a perfect I mean he is perfect.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
He's not expensive either.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
I mean, so he's so perfect. He's like exactly what
they need. He's a great rebounder, he's big, he's amazing,
he's a great defender. And it's just like he's exactly
what they do. That's why I'm just like, if I would,
I would, I would talk if if they were, if

(47:07):
they were listening me for Daltonton, I would talk.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
This is the fun part about when these trades happen,
because then you're just you're just pretty much playing my
GM of every team, and it's so interesting to look
about everybody and see what the prospects are.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
To talk for Clinton.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Clinton is at the twenty million dollar number, I think,
and then Claxton's right around twenty seven.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
That's the thing.

Speaker 1 (47:28):
So in terms of cost, Walker Kessler is like the
best in terms of a cost base, and then you
look at in terms of actual like production and effectiveness
at that at that exact role they need right now.
Claxton and I think Claxon is like, would also be
perfect for what they need in terms of that, but
he's just so much more expensive. He's since he's much

(47:50):
he's a much more developed player. You're gonna he's gonna
cost you.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
I mean there's guys like there's Windell Carter Junior. But
I don't think I don't think you pull him from
the magic Kevon Looniey does. I don't think you have to.
I don't think you want Kevon Looney and Gonna.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Be honest, No, he doesn't.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
He doesn't serve what that need.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah, it's just like he's just like I'm like, literally a.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Big and then I mean think about Clason would be
on the same timeline as Luca both twenty five years old.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Yeah, I mean I had to, bro Walker Test was
seventh and rebounded.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, so that canding block.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Scond in blocking the league like leaves the league of
field goal percentage, Bros. He's just so perfect. He's literally
first and offensive rebounding.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
I mean, if the Lakers can pull off what I feel,
I feel like that's where like the line gets drawn
by other GM's saying, Bro, they can't keep getting away
with this.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Because you know I'm I'm gonna re birth my thing
if I'm If I'm the Laker, I offered Dalton for
him for Kessler, Yeah, I just think for what you need,
I don't know. I just think he fits perfectly. I

(49:17):
think I think you can find I think you can
find a a You can find it Dalton easier then
you can find it being you can find.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
A Walker, And I think Walker in terms of what
you need right now, fits more in line with like
the Laker. You can kind of you can make some
things happen to try and Dalton's really good, but you
could try and find some I guess you can try
and massage the situation to find a way to get
some value out of that that forward position, to facsimilate
what don'ton give you. But finding what Walker Kessler is

(49:45):
doing right now is so hard in this NBA, and
that's what they desperately need. So we pretty much both
just agree that the Lakers still do. We both think
they're gonna make another deal and they need to make
another deal this season if.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
They have to, not I want to, they have to
make a deal.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
Do you think if they don't make a deal that
it hurts their chances of resigning Luca.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
Really yeah, no, I think that back. Yeah, I do. Actually,
if they if it's like, okay, what are you guys
gonna do? What do you guys canna give me? Once
Lebron is kind of gone, like you have to like
make you have to make a deal that kind of
kind of put some pieces together, like you have a
similars to a team. Like it's like, I don't think

(50:32):
Luca wants to be twenty seven dragging a bad team
to the playoffs after being in the finals.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Yeah, exactly, that was my thought.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Pro that's the number of reason why I believe the
Lakers just aren't done making deals because it's just no
way that this guy has enjoyed this level of success
and then you're asking him to go backwards. I mean,
naturally he is going backwards just by virtue of what
the team was already that he was going to But
I there's just no, I just can't I can't conceptualize that.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
You at least have to give him a team.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
That is that is I guess playoff came. I can
make a run. They might not be favorites, but if
you get the good matchup, good enough matchups Lebron, Luca
and someone else whatever can make something happen and that's
just not just hopeless. Because I think that's the interesting

(51:22):
part too of this, and I guess we can transition
to that part of the conversation, is that now where
what is the outlook for both of these teams.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Now going forward?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Right? And Luca Luca with Lebron, I mean, what does
that look like on the court? I think Lucas as
he's an incredible talent obviously with the ball in his hands,
with the ball without the ball in his hands, my
boy is just about as I mean, the shoes just
squeak if you rather, if you want to say, like

(51:51):
the shoe, Yeah, that's that's Luca's off ball game. Lebron
has become better at playing off ball obviously in his
later years he's kind of had to, and obviously with
his shooting now becoming a lot better, Ron can't actually
feasibly play the off ball roll. And he's actually become
a really pretty good cutter alongside Austin Reeves and having
to fulfill that off ball roll so he doesn't get
as exhausted throughout the tenure of a game. So I

(52:13):
can see that happening with those two. But man, they're
both still very very I mean, this is even beyond
the point of where we were talking about Lebron and
Dwayne Wade, because those two obviously had the most conflicting
games because Dwayne wasn't an efficient three point shooter and
at that time, obviously Lebron wasn't that great at three
point shooting either. But Dwayne was still like his game

(52:35):
was still a slashing type of rim attacking type of
game where him moving off ball, you could see him
doing it from that type of perspective. Luca is just
so ball dominant. It is like weird for him to
be off the ball, and we saw it a lot
of times, even in the playoffs where last season playing
alongside Kyrie, there's times where he just wouldn't move after

(52:56):
he got the ball, got rid of the ball, Like
he wouldn't move unless it was for him coming back
to get the ball or whatever the case may be.
My man was just a statue out there at times
when he doesn't have the basketball.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
The interesting thing to me is that I talked about
this with you yesterday. It's that like Lebron, Lebron will
move off ball like the last two years, it's used
to rate his goal like he's almost at his like
the lowest he's been in his career. Like the only
year is that he's like comfortably not even comfortable, Like
last year he's the lowest to use the ball since

(53:28):
his rookie.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Year, and then this year it's.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Slightly up, but it's like he's still lower than all
but three years of his career. So it's like when
when a non bomb dominant guy had come like even
and then he took a dip when Kyrie was there.
So it's like when the time it comes to like
move off the ball, but Lebron's like taking stuff back.
He's been like, all right, that's fine, I'll move off ball.
Ain't that big of a deal to me. So it's

(53:53):
like even especially now that he's forty, going yeah, now
that he's forty, I really don't think like he'll give
but like you'll let Luca run the offense. I don't
think he has a problem with it. Yeah, So I
don't think like people are like, oh, I don't know
how I think the fit's gonna be fine.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Honestly, I mean it's it's it's a because Luca can
shoot it's a much better fit obviously because they both
can shoot. Rather, it's a much better fit than what
the prospect was even with because a lot of times, look,
I give I give Lebron his credit right and the
fact that he can't play off ball, but there was
even that. Remember when they went and got Russell Westbrook,

(54:28):
people were trying to talk the fit into existence and
never fat It just never happened because I think definitely
Rough can't shoot, yeah, but remember the template people were
giving Drane Wade couldn't shoot.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah. But I also think that like that was a
different different Bron, I mean different, different way and different
like different. But I think at that point way he
was still better than the Russ. Wade was better off
ball than Roses.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yes he was.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
I think that was the bigger I mean because Russ
and also I mean the guy. The game has changed
completely to like shooting more threes, you have brush shooting.
I'm gonna take a wild guest here, it's that like
thirty three from deep and I'm probably being nice. You're
shooting twenty nine run like he's taking twenty nine and

(55:26):
on almost four tempts and then thirty percent on four
temps like.

Speaker 4 (55:33):
That stuff.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
It's like and then also you have Anthony Davis there,
who's not like with Wade and Braun Is like you
have Boss stepping out of the paint as well, and
it's like you have Broun at the four block, at
the five ways, at the two is you have a
little bit better spacing like Lakers spacing was not ideal.
And then Bron's also not hitting for three like he

(55:56):
was in Miami as well, Like when Bron was there,
when the Russ was there, he's shooting thirty six, thirty
thirty six thirties. Yeah, he shot thirty six and thirty yeah,
thirty six fourth years actually, so it's like you're not
You're not getting the same spacing like like Russ. As
we we vitalize this year on the Nuggets, and it
helps that they have, you know, three three point shooters,

(56:18):
and then Jokic is just gods your offensive player. So
I think it works a little bit different than how
Russ Ross Luca or Russ Wade worked.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
No, I could see that, So I I think that
now when you're as the Lakers, you're going forward building.
So I saw and I'm meant to bring this up
in the rationalization part for the Lakers portion. But I
did see some people bringing up the point that Anthony
Davis's comments did frustrate the Lakers some and that it
made the Lakers' front office feel a bit I don't know,

(56:53):
like the Lake, the Lebron and Anthony Davis are doing
the passive aggressive thing again of saying that the roster
needs to improve, needs to improve, and all this stuff.
But then and the Lakers felt like they're between a
rock and a hard place because they never they didn't
want to duplicate the trade that happened with Russell Westbrook.
They were I think every single person in an NBA

(57:14):
fandom can obviously see that the Lakers took a dip
the minute they made that trade for Russell Westbake. I mean,
as clear as day, that trade I almost almost honestly
closed the Lakers championship window, if a realistic one, it
was closed when they made that trade. And so they
were trying so hard to avoid that and didn't want
to give up pieces for what wasn't practically a certain championship,

(57:36):
for what you looked at as a title contender and say, hey,
this team can go beat the Celtics. This team can
beat the Nuggets, and they didn't want to make that mistake.
And I saw one person had said along the lines
that this does pretty much kill any type of real
influence now Lebron James has in the front office, if
whatever his push pool was within the front office, and

(57:57):
that now the team, it's obvious the team does now
become All the moves you make are to cater to
Luka Doncic and get Luka Doncic to resign as opposed
to the happiness of Lebron James. And as of this moment,
per Chris haynes Or, I think it's either him a
dag mc manhim. I don't want to mis miscite the source,
but they're saying that as of this moment, Lebron is

(58:18):
intending to stay a Laker, and he does have a
no trade clause, so the Lakers can't just go and
trade him and Lebron doesn't approve of the trade. He
has a no trade clause. So in that scenario, do you, like,
what is there any chance at all that you think
that there's a trade that can come along that would
result in Lebron being moved from the Lakers.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
I think the only I think the only the only
trade that would happen is him going to the him
going to the Warriors. I think that's the only place
he would be like, yeah, trade be there and I'll
be okay with it. Outside of that, I just I
just can't see it. He would play with he would

(59:01):
play with stephs In. Outside of that, it's just like
I'll write it out. I'll write out by time in LA.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Yeah, I see that. Yeah, I mean to make the money, LA.
If you're making forty eight million, that's a lot to
try and match up with. We're in a situation now
where San Antonio has legit because of Wemby. It's like
any player can go there and you could win a
championship if you're a star, practically any player, especially one
of the shot creation, play making type archetype players. If

(59:31):
you go to San Antonio and you are feasibly like
a top ten player, top fifteen player right now, you
have a realistic chance to win a championship. And I
think that would be entirely ring chasing type of Lebron.
And I think at this point he I think even
him confirming so quickly that he doesn't want to leave
the Lakers is kind of showing he's not in the

(59:53):
ring chase mindset. I think he wants to win. But
I also just think at this point, I mean, Lebron
has said it. He said it multiple times. He said,
what am I? I don't have anything else to prove,
I have nothing else really to play for. I think
at this point he generally wanted to play with his son,
even though he kind of backed off it in the
most recent years. I think he wanted to take some
of that pressure off of Bronni that we are seeing
people are still applying to Brownie at this point in time.

(01:00:14):
But I think that's generally what he has been playing for,
because I think he when he said that years ago,
I was really like, Okay, then what?

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
And then I was obvious.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
I mean, the only thing you could be a possibly
playing for is to play with Bronni, and the Lakers
are the only team that are gonna unless they trade
him too, They're the only team they are gonna be
having Bronni in their midst. And granted, you could argue
Lebron's presence is what makes that reality. And so I
generally don't think there's any trade that's gonna come along
that Lebron and if he said to himself that he
has nothing else that he's really playing for. I don't

(01:00:45):
think even the prospect of almost a certain championship would
sway him to leave. Playing with his son, I would say,
I don't think Cleon would be a ring chasing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
I think that's just like coming back home to finish
his career out kind.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Of thing on his on his behalf, yes, but on
the Cleveland side. I mean it's like you, like you said,
I just on the Clevelan side of it. For them,
it would even Yeah, it'd be cooked. I mean he
had to. He had to pretty much reached the end
or they have to do a buyout for him or

(01:01:19):
something like that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Yeah, he had to. He played out his last two
years and takes like a one year deal to like
go to Cleveland. Like that's the only thing I ever
see him going to, like I guess a trade like
trade wise like some Warriors, I think he would play
with Staffs one year and that would be it. Like
nothing else would really like I don't think anybody else
really moves to the net form like that to be like

(01:01:42):
oh yeah, like I said, don't like even unispers, I
don't think he would go this first, right this minute.
I think it would be like a thing where he's like,
all right, I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Along like my way out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
I just want to kind of like play a year
with no expectations, no real like no real worries, and
just play basketball like it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
To be honest, I mean they have I know they
have expectations, but it's still he is he is. I
mean they make comments saying that they still want to
improve the roster to do so. I mean, this is
a move we're realistically, where is this Lakers team sitting
now in the West? I think I guess I'll lead
this part part off because I think right now, the

(01:02:23):
Lebron looks good right now. Man, he's he's looking engaged.
Granted he's forty. So we can get this type of
this type version of Lebron one night. The next night
he can be I think the other night they lost,
they lost big, and I think one of the announcers
called him out for kind of stat padding a bit
at the end of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
It was a blowout, and.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
He was he was definitely going to trying to boost
his number of at the end of the game, and
I was I was sitting there, I'm like, Okay, this
is the type of scenario where you can kind of
Luca wouldn't play. I think until they said he was.
His timeline with the Mavericks was like All Star break.
Right now, the Lakers are fifth in the West, and
after this move, obviously your defense or any semblance of

(01:03:01):
defense you have now is going to crater unless they're
barring any potential moves that you're gonna make.

Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
But let's just.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Say the Lakers are this this roster as it is
moving forward. I definitely think they drop in the West,
but I'd probably say they're like playing eight eight, six
to eight seed type of team, the Lakers, because now

(01:03:28):
you don't I mean, you don't have the guy that
essentially like Lebron, has to carry so much of a weight,
and Luca's still not back yet, so you're gonna their
fifth And I said they're gonna be six to eighth,
So it's not like I'm saying they're gonna take this
huge precipitous drive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
All right. I don't know, do you think they're worse
than the Clippers? Do you think they think worse than
the Clippers?

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I think that depending on if Luca comes back, and
when Luca comes back, Yes they do.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
I mean they were.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
Up like they said, he's actually gonna play before. Also,
I don't know what I think that's not true? Cook
they played one more game?

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Yeah, exactly when is when is his timeline to go back?
That's the question, because now you're gonna be playing all
these games with just Lebron. No.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
The big thing, he's going to play before All Star break.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
Okay, so if he comes back before they All Star break,
depending on when that is. Right now, the Lakers are
sitting at fifth. They're twenty eight and nineteen. The Clippers
are twenty eight and twenty one. I mean, I think
the Clippers are now structurally a better team than the Lakers.
I think, especially because Kawhi is back now. So that's
another big thing, big aspect of the clip and Norman

(01:04:38):
Palace playing freaking great right now. So for the grand
overall season with Luca coming back, let's say he comes
back Utah game right, you're playing that's he stretches the
games from Utah on. I'm just taking into account the
fact that I feel like their defense is going to
just take such a crazy pounding without obviously Anthony Davis
there to butchers the middle. They're not really gonna be

(01:05:00):
able to stop anything. They got rid of the one
of their wings, like they have no perimeter defense outside
of Vanderbilt, and he's a forward rather than like even
a guard defender, which Christy was so now.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Defense when out for everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
I mean, I guess that could be the mantra you
go to. You just go to just being a all
out We're gonna outscore everybody on the floor. I still
think that leaves you with holes that I think you
naturally could be eclipsed by the Clippers and the Timberwolves,
not to mention the Mavericks possibly flimbing up.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
I think the managers will find up. But as long
as the Timberwolves employee Julius Rangel, I don't think you
have to worry too much about it's gonna be so real.
Come on, man, I'm just being honest with you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
I'm just keeping it the bean bro And as long
as I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:57):
That's also barring.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
If san Antonio doesn't go make a move, move to
go get dearon Fox or somebody else.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
I loved Antonio there.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
You do not have to worry about them.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
Said they are staying right in the play in outskirts.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
They're there, They're a year away.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
That's so funny.

Speaker 3 (01:06:17):
I think that went before these I thought they win
forty games. I think they'll win forty. I think they'll
just have a slight league.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
In record probably, yeah, just under five hundred. I think
that's generally the perfect spot where the Lakers are probab
gonna endup finishing. They're gonna endup fishing in the play
in To be honest, I think they're gonna either be
the seven for the A seed and to play in,
and I think unless they do, I'm very curious just
to see how they coach their way around the defense,
because they're pretty much they're they're gonna employ a Sun's

(01:06:45):
a Son's type of build. I mean, granted, they have
better players to meet in my opinion than what the
Sons are running with, but I think they're gonna be
employing an entirely offensive heavy type of lineup with this Lakers,
this Lakers appointment, and so I don't know, Man, it's
gonna be interesting to see. Yeah, you think they're gonna

(01:07:06):
finish higher or what are you're saying? Playing playing spot
at seven between seven to ten.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
I just want to say they're the tim Gools are
better with two friends on the bench.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
But I was sorry of that.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
The I think they will be I don't know. I
think they'll finished.

Speaker 4 (01:07:25):
I think they'll pay high.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
Than the Slippers. We're gonna be honest with you. I
don't think is gonna play the rest of the season.
He'll Mi's like like another stretch of like fifteen fifteen
games or something like that. Probably probably the seventh seeds, right,
they finished one. I think maybe the Slippers finished above them.
I think the MAVs climb. I think the mav climb.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
To the fifth seed.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
I think the fourth seed is a little too wait,
where's the fourth seed got? I think the fourth seed
is a little too far away.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
I guess the fourth seeds is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:54):
Like I think they're like seven games back or something
like that. They're like seven and a half. They're seven
and a half. Oh no, no, sorry, they're four four and
a half back of the fourth seeds. M now, just
in a period of Kyrie ad getting used to each other.

(01:08:15):
Probably don't catch the fourth seeds. They probably finished fifth seeds.
The Clippers probably catch the Oh boy, you might be right. Honestly,
I think, I don't know. Maybe the Demerlves do catch
the Lakers. They're only a game back, they're only two
games back. Maybe then maybe they do. Maybe they finished,
Maybe they finish.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
I'm saying, if you can't stop anybody, that's the Lakers
are just gonna employ a line up, the lineup of targets.
That's it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
They're just employing a lineup that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
I don't know, bro, because Luca, Luca by himself has
gotten like decent teams to good seeds. So it's like,
I don't know, maybe maybe him and Braun Regulus, Like
it's different like playoffs. I think they get like corribly close.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Yes, of course, well like regular season.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
I don't know. You might just be able to make
it work. You might just be so talented you might
be able to work in the regular season left.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
Though, or like twenty to thirty games left.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Yeah, you just beat up on the bad teams and
then lose to the good teams. You might be able
to pay you have to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
You have to be all the bad teams because I
just don't see how you being a good team.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
I mean, it's a regular season. Who knows, But I
think I think they just be That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
They just beat the nick They beat the Nicks with
just Lebron last night.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Yeah, I think, but I think they've fallen to that as.

Speaker 3 (01:09:36):
The game before that they lose to the seventy six ers,
no PG, no no EMBs.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
So yeah, you know right, I think I think they're playing.
I definitely say they're playing playoff perspective. I don't think
it's a shot.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
The Mavericks are more interesting from a.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Playoff perspective because I, like you said, I do think
the Mavericks are going to have the ability to climb
up here. And I think, look, Anthony Davis better beyond
the or second half tair of the season like anybody
nobody's seen before because the amount of campaigning he was
doing for a center, and now he finally has the
center he's been asking for, I mean, I think rightfully,

(01:10:10):
so he's played great with centers alongside him. Now that
he has that, I look, I expect him to probably
be like one of those guys you're just like, gosh, damn,
people forgot how good Anthony Davis is. And he's gonna
be able to They're gonna be able to climb up
now in terms of their actual prospects in the playoffs, though,
Is this a team that can make it to the finals? I,

(01:10:32):
in my opinion, I would say, I am so high.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
On the okay See and the Nuggets. I would I
naturally would just say no.

Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Do I think do you think they could be Okay Fie?

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
I don't think they have.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
It's I think it's it's it's a possibility, honestly, because
you know what's interesting about okay See Okay See kind
of presents that similar feeling that you had with the
Timberwolves a season ago.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
And I disagree with that them What.

Speaker 1 (01:11:10):
Do you mean?

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
I thought the biggest problem with the with the Timberwolves
last year was that they just didn't have enough offense,
Like outside of Anthony Edwards, I.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Didn't That's not what I'm speaking to. I'm talking about
that team that's like coming, that's like everybody like you,
You don't see them coming on the people don't aren't
taking them seriously as a playoff team on the horizon.
And I think now this regular season success is more
so solidifying that picture. And I think that now I
think it hurts that they've they've had to endure with

(01:11:42):
some injuries, but I think they are so good defensively
that they are just going to terrorize whatever team they
go up against in the postseason. And this is they're
doing this without check.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
Yeah, that's the thing. It's like I think, so they
beat the they beat the the the the Thunder. It's
like three times this season, yes, they have. And it's like,
I don't know, I don't know, yeah, yeah, And I
don't know if they're gonna like load into like a
false into security that like, oh man, we're you know what,
we can beat them without and if it was without Luca,

(01:12:17):
you know, I'm like, I'm wondering if they can load
in this false inse of security that like they can
beat the Thunder in the series because they beat them
last year and they'd been making three times this season
like without Luca, and they're like, you know what, yeah,
you know we you know what, we can move on
from Lucas if okay, SE's the best team in the
in the West. We made the finals last year. We
feel like we're better than them, you know, like let's

(01:12:39):
let's move Luca and get you know, a room running
four or not running four. But like the defensive Player
of the Year level four who's also you know, a
great offensive player, and.

Speaker 4 (01:12:50):
We can we can keep it moving.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
We got Kyrie to playmaking, there's are as are one
and to have two options, so like, yeah, let's let's
make that work. And I don't know, I just feel
like once they get to the playoffs, like and check
comes back and daily locked in, Like you're relying on PJ.
W Washington to be demon. PJ Washington he was last year,

(01:13:12):
And I don't know if that's what I'm wanting to
stake my life on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:17):
And that's where I'm feeling. I'm feeling in a similar
sense too, because.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
I I feel as though when I'm looking at that
that Thunder or sorry, the Mavericks team. While I think
that now they do have some of the things that
the Thunder are weak against, especially against wind protection, because
that's one of the I do think some of that
false security is somewhat they lull the Thunder into playing

(01:13:41):
a brand of basketball where Shay sga he's able to dominate,
but it does sometimes funnel his teammates out of the game.
And I do think the Mavericks, I don't know why,
and I don't know how every single time they've been
able to lull or dup SGA into playing.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
That brand of basketball.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
And so I think that now when you even had
Anthony Davis there, you make even SGA being able to
trying to play that that style of basketball even tougher
on him and more inefficient with having proper rimt protection
on multiple aspects.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
It could be an interesting series.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
But I mean, I still like the thunder more just
because I think they would have the best player in
that series. But and I and I think that just
when when you talk about a team that all around
defensively is just covered on all bases. And I remember
how Loudor and them literally it wasn't even just Loudor,
I mean Jalen Williams the rest. They had Kyrie in

(01:14:36):
a in a freaking blender last year.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
That was bro ain't whatever you wanted to hell that man, Bro,
he wanted to get out of that say as fast
as possible.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
And that's my thing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
I'm like, and now supposed to be your main playmaker
and ball handler, I'm like, dude, that's a that's just tough.

Speaker 3 (01:15:00):
So my kind of like that's also why I don't
love this trade. It's like I have made it known
multiple times. I am not the biggest salary fans in
terms of as the number one option, Like I don't
think he's that good, like outside of like when he's
paired with a general he had to have a generational
talent next time, Like now he's just a generational talent,

(01:15:23):
a generational playmaker next fan. And it's like when he
doesn't have that, it's he's he's just that good, like
you know, like I mean, he's just even this year,
he's he's been he's been okay this year, and like
I guess what, Luca hasn't played once this season. Guess

(01:15:45):
who's kind of like taking the dipping efficiency, taking a
dip in like all of his stats kind of like
kind of kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Dipping a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
Tyrie, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
Now you take away a playmaker. You're now saying, Kyrie,
you're our number one playmaker. And it's like we saw
this in Brooklyn. You didn't play great in the playoffs
in Brooklyn. We saw this, you know, in Boston. He
didn't play greaton playoffs in Boston. And it's like, okay, Kyrie,
you're now the number one option and make it work.

(01:16:15):
And it's like tough like even the playoffs last year
against Okay, see uh fifteen points the game?

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Yeah, do you dad? You can beat the Nuggets?

Speaker 3 (01:16:31):
No, Now I say that, I don't know because.

Speaker 1 (01:16:34):
When you think about it, when when has lost in
the playoffs, it always has been to the twelve powers approach.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
That's what that was.

Speaker 3 (01:16:40):
Just that's what made me hesitate and like, I don't
know because it's like Derek Levey versus like gy Gobert
kind of like, I don't know the difference is. I
guess that like I don't know. I guess it does work,
Actually doesn't it. How do you played against the Nuggets
against the Lakers? Cookie cooks them? How he looked up,

(01:17:01):
took them?

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Look it up?

Speaker 4 (01:17:02):
What's the call?

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
I'm bugging? Well, I guess you would have to the
only problem is the Lakers haven't really ran a Twin
Towers look since twenty ten years. And that was the
last time they beat Yo Kisch in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (01:17:16):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
They matched pretty well.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
And they and they literally that was what they ran.
They put what they put.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
They would put Dwight or Javail on your Kisch and
then have a d rim protect.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Every time to be fair.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
It is a different Yokis, but I mean was employed
the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
Yeah, I think like Vampas this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
Year, you said he's gonna be able to war.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
I think joke this year is just the mampads ass.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
I mean, he's he's insane. But you can make the
case they say the same thing last year. I mean,
I think Yo Kisch has just been great. He's just
I mean, he he's the MVP last year, so you
can say the same thing about him last year. I
think the main difference this year is that he's had
histepping up because Jamal, Murray and and Cole haven't been
as good.

Speaker 4 (01:18:03):
But I.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
Think he I think like I don't think last year
was the best version he's doing last year. I don't
think last year Joki was the best version of yok
like ever seeing him out. I think the best version
of Jokich was when he had the Jamal and not
even just that wise or anything like that, but like
Jah was with Jamal and Michael Porginia were out and

(01:18:33):
that was probably the best you've ever seen Yo Kitch
and I think I think he was still great the
last two years. I think this year is like the
year that we're watching and we're like he's he's taking
like another step forward.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
I feel like I've just I've always seen this. I
just think he's doing what he needs to do to win.
To be honest, I mean, I don't until scoring, he's
never he's only not just aggressed because it doesn't have
to be.

Speaker 3 (01:19:00):
I don't know. I just feel like he's mixing, like
he's just mixing it perfectly. Like now of like of
being like an aggressive score on top, is still having
his his elite playmaking affect him at all? No, I
do think it's gonna affect him. I do think it's
still gonna be like it's still going to to raggle him.

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
I don't I don't know. I don't know. It's also
one of those things.

Speaker 3 (01:19:21):
But like you see in the playoffs and then like
we know yokiics like as much as you drive to
plays off, he's like he studies the game a lot.
He like he he does do a bunch of research.
He does like you know, film study and everything. I
think seeing it last year and and I think you
get that. I think he saw the best version of
it last year, right, you get Rudy Gobert and Kat

(01:19:43):
who like the ones like Kat's not that great defense,
but the one thing Kat can't do is playing post defense.
Like its actually the one thing he's like pretty decent.
So it's like you get that, and then like you
see the defensive player, like a four time Defensive Player
of the Year. I think it's the best version of
the Twin Towers you're gonna see. Maybe maybe the Twin
Towers of Dallas is better. Maybe, but who knows at

(01:20:05):
this point. But like, I think you see that he
got to experience it, and he goes forward this year
and kind of picks it apart a little bit better
than he did last year. It's possible tomort Murray has
to be better. That's the other thing. Tom Ray had
to be better.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
So then where would you where would you put Dallas
right now?

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
Is in terms of comparison to the rest of the
Western Conference in terms of playoff odds to make the
NBA Finals, Where is Dallas amongst all these other teams? Like,
just give me a number of placement of the eight
teams that make the Western Conferences third best?

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
Okay, yeah, third best?

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
I think I think behind, I think okay, see a Nuggets,
And then I think after that, I think they fit
right there do.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
The Grizzlies and offer any type of fear.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
To you at all.

Speaker 3 (01:20:53):
I don't like them. No, I don't like them. Okay,
they're They're one of those team great regular season team black,
the next level player like Jaw. I don't think what's going.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
I don't know what Jaw is.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
I'm gonna be real with you. I have no idea
what's going on Jaw.

Speaker 1 (01:21:14):
It is. It is really weird watching them, especially because
they have really good it's I guess weird to gauge
where it feels like Jaw has to fill the floor
that's not or the ceiling space.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
That's not being cleared by Jaron Jackson Jr. And Desmond Bane.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
No, I just agree with that. I actually think the problem, Like,
I think Jaron Jackson has been good, but I.

Speaker 1 (01:21:35):
Think I think for this work, he needs to be
like he needs to be reaching a D levels for
this to be for this to work, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
No, I think it's the opposite problem. I think the
problem is Jaw's not living up to his potent, like
what he's supposed to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Be doing really well. I mean, he's not on the
floor yeah, I would say, but.

Speaker 3 (01:21:57):
In that too, but it's like, I mean, look, I
mean looking at the I mean, obviously he doesn't play
like that's what in a minute he played like thirty
minutes a game. I think plays twenty eight minutes a game.
He's like, I mean per thirty six even it's still
like all right, per thirty sixty, twenty five and nine.
So I mean I guess so, but like I don't know,
just like looking at his numbers twenty and twenty and
seven on like below average efficiency, it's just like like

(01:22:23):
you need him to be like your lead number one options.
He's not really filling that role, whereas like Jared Jackson,
Like I Jared Jackson's like like he's actually like improving
himself as all as an offensive player. Like his last
year him taking that like having to having him be
the number one options he was like he was bad

(01:22:43):
at it last year, but like it. It made him
better this year for it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
But I guess what I'm saying though, is that you
need Jaron Jackson instead of being twenty two or twenty
three points rather twenty two point eight, twenty three and
six rebounds, you need him to be more so like
for this to work, you need him to be the
realm of like twenty five eleven and have like the
averaging two to three blocks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Like he was a few years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
Never going to be that guy and that, and that's
why he's he's not forty bucks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
You say he's not a quarterback.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
I mean, but again, like he's not a rebounder. He's
not a good rebounder. He's never been a good rebounder.
I don't know what scorn wikes. I honestly, I don't
mind his scorn. Like he's like per thirty six, he
puts up twenty seven a game. In thirty minutes, he
puts up twenty three, Like I think it's Gordon's on it. Honestly,
I think it's defense. I think blockwise, I think that's
not important. Really, I think that's just more so people

(01:23:35):
don't go after him like that. The uh his defense
is still his defense is still because he's still anchoring
the defense. I don't know, I just feel like Jaw
has to be like that. John's supposed to be like
that number one guy, and he's he's like just not not.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
But I guess that's my question.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
How good? How good are we expecting like how good
should John Morant or I guess what is the scale
of how good John Moran is supposed to be in
comparison because the reason why I always I've never saw
Jah as like the best point guard in the league
per se. But in terms of where he's supposed to be,
where he is, I guess he's a top ten point

(01:24:10):
guard right now.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
And the top what do you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:15):
Say you don't think he's close to five. I don't
think he's closer to five.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
I mean he's probably closer to five. I just say ten,
just I just to cover so I don't have to
think of every name in my head. But I mean
he could. You can probably make the argument if he's
top five, whatever the case might be. But yeah, I
just don't want to have to go through every point
guard rhythmicna in my head. But if he's up there
right now, the age of twenty five years old, same
age as Luca, funny enough, and you're looking at it

(01:24:40):
like you said he's his efficiency has dropped in the
past season, he's dealt with injury issues and so on.
And I don't remember what you said he was on
what his averages were per thirty six, but naturally, okay,
if he's twenty five and nine per thirty six, and
it's like, I don't really know what more. I'm like,

(01:25:02):
it feels like unless this team is gonna be like,
they're gonna be built in the in the same vein
as how the Bulls were around Derreck Rose with John Moran,
because that's the only way I can see it working.
With John Morant being your number one option, you're gonna
have to have another guy on there that can legitimately
go and create a bucket is a consistent twenty five
per night scorer. Yeah, And that's where that's the only

(01:25:26):
The only guy other guy I have of noticing that
they're they're gonna pay in that fashion is Jaron Jackson Jr.
So that's why I'm saying, because the likelihood of you
having those two then bringing another guy that also does
that same thing at that high level is very unlikely.
So you need Jaren Jackson to be that dude and
still be able to foot a team that's still able
to play high level defense. So that's that's the main

(01:25:48):
reason why that's my my critique of the Grizzlies, or
at least I guess Jared Jackson Junior. But yeah, I
probably the Grizzlies are probably still below as well. But honestly,
it's funny because the Grizzies are the type of team
like the Lakers, would be able to upset in the
playoff series. That's like the funniest part.

Speaker 3 (01:26:09):
Yeah, I mean they're weird.

Speaker 4 (01:26:11):
They can go to the Western Conis Finals.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
They could knock in the first round.

Speaker 3 (01:26:13):
I wouldn't be shot by either literally, Okay, and.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
I so I guess we have our how we see
the both the teams out of the trade boils off
for both teams. Now, I guess if you had to
just sum up the whole conversation and say, at the
end of the day, who do you think if you
if you have to pick a winner and a loser
in the trade, who are you? How is that falling
for you?

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
Losers are mad?

Speaker 4 (01:26:33):
I don't care.

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
Don't care about the argument. Losers are mad, the math
of the losers, I don't care. It's allful trade for them.
I don't like it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
Last night I was like, oh you know, I mean
I like it both the ways.

Speaker 4 (01:26:44):
I understand it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
Bla bla blah. I woke up and I was like, no,
I hate it, but I hate it for the math
I do.

Speaker 1 (01:26:49):
I mean, I'm still in the position where I think
where you where you gonna say, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
The championship in the next two years. Or it's like
just shot and they traded like they shot their preacher
for two years or nothing like. And it's not even
just like a a a trade of just on the
court either, like they also traded like this was a

(01:27:21):
what's the word? It looks like a bit a bad
business traight on top of that, right, Like I don't
know if you saw, like we already within twenty four hours,
they've already lost a million followers on Instagram like this,
They like Luca was a what somebody who was like
a face of the franchise kind of guy, a guy
who brought in like entertainment, like he was a musty

(01:27:45):
kind of game like player, right, that's the generation players,
right Yeah. And it's like you kind of lose, like
you kind of lose that like Athy Davis is like
in terms of like basketball wise, right any Davids kind
of like the whole team fits a little bit better,
but it's not as as an exciting pull at Luca dunton'schens.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
I get that.

Speaker 3 (01:28:06):
So it's like, not only do they lose to me,
like on the court, where it's like again long term,
you lose also in the other realm as well, Whereas
like the Lakers, even if they don't win a championship,
it's like a they're set up for the future by
they set themselves up again with another franchise cornerstone, like

(01:28:29):
to be like, hey where the Lakers, baby, it's what
we do.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
It's now again.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
The must see ticket, must have ticket when they go
to others, when they go on the road, like I
don't know. To me, it's just like the Lakers just
come out like as a dub and it's like they
can probably like even if they win, they like like
let's say on the next let's say Luca however long
he's on the Lakers, right m the man potence we

(01:28:58):
probably when it can win the championship and then their
windows closed, like three years from now, the Lakers have
a now ten year stretch where they're their windows open.

Speaker 5 (01:29:11):
Yeah, I I totally I think this is gonna be
one of those very hard results based trades, right I
think right now, on the face of it, I think
the Lakers are the winners of the trade.

Speaker 1 (01:29:23):
Granted you have to resign Luka Doncic or literally in
a year and a half. Lakers are the losers of
the trade in every sense of the word if they
don't resign Luka Doncic and so you have to resign them.
If Barron, I guess we're talking about this in the
realm of they do resign them. Yes, you you now
have a window of ten years. You have that next
transcendent superstar that you were struggling to even envision how

(01:29:45):
to transition from Lebron James in a way that now
you you are totally poised to do so very happily
and astutelee might I, might I say, and I think
for the Mavericks it is a situation where you have
to just it doesn't even if it's not in the
next two years, even though realistically that's the window we're
all in visioning, because that's the tier, the tier end
of these guys primes. If you just win a championship

(01:30:08):
with these guys, ally is forgiven right, nobody's gonna be
mad about a championship, even though you gave away Luca
for what could ben years of production that even could
have been multiple championships. The whole goal was to just
win a ring. That's what this deal is to do,
is just to win a championship. And if you just
go and win that championship, then I think that earns

(01:30:29):
you something. There's still gonna be Mavericks fans that are
gonna be upset about it, right, just like there are
still Lakers fans that are upset about the fact they
traded for Anthony Davis despite the championship, right. But I
think at the end of the at the end of
the day, you play every season for a championship. So
I think getting the ring if they get a championship
at any point with the AD and Kyrie Corps or

(01:30:51):
even if Anthony Davis is one of the leading pieces
to help them win a championship there, I think you
get way more leeway there on that with that team
with the deal, with this trade being done, I mean,
that's the whole deal. So, I mean, I don't know,
I guess that they would a championship. I think they
would have won the trade per se, right, because if
they do end up winning one eventually with what I

(01:31:12):
guess what it was done from this trade. It's hard
for me to say they're a loser. I guess just
on his face right now, I'm going Lakers. But it's interesting,
I don't know. I mean, it's so much, so much
of it is so solely dependent on the results of
what happens, because like so many like people could make

(01:31:36):
the argument that even though I don't think the Lakers
would have had the cap space to get Luca, but
some people made the argument, oh, what can you have
just gone and signed them a free agency or somebody,
because I did see some Lakers fans upset. They're like, well,
Ad was, They felt like Ad was a Laker and
they've been going to back for Ad even though false
narratives about his health and stuff have been going on
even during the season on which he was healthy and

(01:31:58):
such like that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:59):
Like I think it was oh Shay Jackson junior Ice
cube Son that was saying this and and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:32:04):
But go ahead, I don't leaves. I don't think Luca
leaves the Mavericks if he wasn't traded.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Possibly not. I don't mean, I don't think any has
there been really any foreign player that's been of that
caliber that's left their team.

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
I'm sure there are. I'm sure there's somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
That level. No they say as I'm saying, like, I mean,
I'm hoping that Luca resigned. I mean him being traded
might change his mind, but I hope he resigns with
the Lakers.

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
But yeah, I mean, I got traded. But that's kind
of different.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
There's no foreign guy that's really just been willing to leave,
like the team was with the Rockets for all throughout
all his prime until like the and then he ended
up going to the Blazers, but like a team was
a Rocket for Yeah, and I'm trying to even think
anybody else.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
Yeah, you're right like that. Yeah, they don't really leave.
So I mean I'm dark stayed, you know, everybody kind
of stays, so like I don't know, I mean, i
mean just just even just like talk like Lesten him
talk about it, like he seemed to love like the Mavericks. Yeah,
it's just like I just thought I don't think he
was going anywhere. Yeah, I think, like, I don't think

(01:33:31):
you get a chance to sign him in the off season.
So uh, that's just that's just tough.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Do we see the revenge Lucas?

Speaker 4 (01:33:42):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
Do we see the revenge Luca arc Bro, like they
essentially can send him out and then they're like, Bro,
you you were you were too you were you know.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
You were tweakies.

Speaker 3 (01:33:53):
Well, I mean they'd be calling a man a fat
for like like the whole.

Speaker 1 (01:33:55):
Day basically literally that that's the crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:34:01):
This man was fat. This man was fat, lazy, didn't
want to work. It's just like dang Bro, Like, I hope,
I mean, I hope Luca Bro, I hope he plays six.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
I hope so too. Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
I'm really praying, Bro.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
I'm hoping that obviously he gets under the Lebron James tutelage,
sees how Lebron James works out and then it inspires
him because Luca was on Team USA, so he never
has seen Lebron really go to work or like the
work ethic of Lebron James or anything like that, and
so now you're playing with Lebron. I'm praying that he

(01:34:36):
gets to see that and understand, like, what the even
though I think Lucas said he never was he's never
been interested in playing as long as Lebron has, but
seeing how that ethic is and coming back next season,
I'm even if Lebron's smart man, just tell the dude, Hey, Bro,
just work out with me this summer or something. I
don't know. It would require him being in the USA

(01:34:58):
to do that, him to work out with him throughout
the summer. But if they if they worked out together
and he came back in the season next season in
shape Bro the Revenge tour, Luca, Yes, I mean you.

Speaker 3 (01:35:12):
Know that first year, remember when when Brown went the
when it looked at Miami that first year a little rock.
It was not a little with a lot of rock.

Speaker 4 (01:35:25):
But what's the call?

Speaker 3 (01:35:28):
He got through that year, kind of had to go
through that off season being shame.

Speaker 1 (01:35:34):
Came out next season revenge sure went crazy. Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
That's the year they went on that what almost thirty
game win streak, right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
So it's like, you know, maybe maybe this is like
you know, you never know, man, maybe you just need that,
you need that wake up call.

Speaker 2 (01:35:50):
Truthfully, I mean, I I think I saw somebody.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
I don't want to say it's messed up, but I'll
just say someone made a reference up to Zion saying
that like you think you're safe. Yeah, maybe maybe Zion
do ever want to be there.

Speaker 4 (01:36:09):
I don't even know at this point in Zion.

Speaker 1 (01:36:10):
Wants to be in New Orleans. But we'll see, We'll see.

Speaker 4 (01:36:14):
He's always trying to argue.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
The argue against the whole, like all he wants to
be in New York or whatever. Like you know, people
have always been trying to trying to get him to
go elsewhere. He's all, he wants to be in a different,
different state or something, and it's like no, he's always
been like, I have no interest in it where I'm at.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
I just I would just love to see Zion and
Luca in prime shape. I mean, if Zion was ever
in great like I mean just Lebron level shape. Oh
my gosh, I don't want to rhyme before go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
I think Lebron shape is kind of like just that's
just Lebron shape is different level shape. I feel like
you just if you use in shape, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:03):
That's I mean, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:37:05):
But look like Bron level shape is just.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
The reason why I say Bron level shape bros, because
that would be them peak, you know, just maximizing their
ability and potential, and they are both so good at
what they do. Ins in terms of like a mismatch,
like nobody does the change gear change speed thing better
than Luca going downhill all of a sudden step back,

(01:37:32):
bringing up controlling the tempo of the game better than
Luca does at this stage in his career. And it's like,
my boy hasn't even been in the best shape or conditioning.

Speaker 3 (01:37:42):
While doing so.

Speaker 1 (01:37:43):
And same thing for Zion, like Zion can't. People can
literally cannot withstand the force that Zion brings on the
court and that level of explosiveness and athleticism. And I
just I can only imagine if these dudes had great
shape and conditioning with them the motor, I mean motor
with great shape. Bro imagine that.

Speaker 2 (01:38:05):
Yeah, that is It's scary.

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
It is actually scary if you if you had Zion
in premiere shape and the motor he already has without it,
and then you give him that motor with that that
crazy second jump he has all that, but that man
would average a double double easy.

Speaker 3 (01:38:20):
Yeah, I mean I agree, But hey, out out that
Luca takes this like you know what, man, Maybe maybe
I do need to put that for them. Maybe I
do need to You know, I got traded. I don't
want it to happen again. Let me put it, Let
me do it, Let me do what I need to do.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
All that praying, Bro, literally just thirty six numbers? What
are you say?

Speaker 3 (01:38:51):
So I don't pay thirty six numbers? Are crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
Bro?

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
I am telling you, Bro, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:38:58):
I'm per thirty six the only place twenty thirty ten six.

Speaker 1 (01:39:04):
On. So he is a Zion bro watching Zion play.
I watched one of his games the other day and
I was just watching. I'm like, Noah, bro, because I
was actually having that conversation with myself. I was thinking,
when did the Aaron Fox trade stars trade talk started happening?
I was like, what other star could be traded? And
I went to go look at Zion and I was

(01:39:25):
watching a game of his. I'm like, nah, bro, you no,
you don't trade Zion.

Speaker 4 (01:39:28):
No, you don't trade that. It's too good.

Speaker 3 (01:39:33):
He's too good.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
Yeah. You just you you beg, you beg to have
this issue, and you hope that you somehow can, like
I don't know, do hypnosis or something on these dudes
to get the misshap.

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
I don't know. I I see everything I powered to
make it work, and they like if it can't listen,
I'll he walked, or I'll trade him at the last minute.
I'm not trading that, man, unless we've exhausted every single minute,
literally every single option, every single every single.

Speaker 1 (01:40:05):
Option, it's insane. It is insane to think about. Oh
my gosh, man, all right, I think we've I think
we've pretty much spun the block on this trade in
every way fashion imaginable that we can. We got almost
two hours of talking on this trade, so guys, hopefully
you guys enjoyed this podcast, and we covered all the
angles of the trade. And if anything new obviously comes

(01:40:26):
out about the trade, I'll talk about that on the
next podcast and this emergency podcast. Man, it's been This
is what makes covering sports so much fun is things
like this, deals like this that get to get done.
And obviously I love the back I love the NBA
so much that I've done nothing but engage in content
about this trade all day, whether it's researching about the
background details and all that stuff about the trade and

(01:40:47):
the players involved. I've just been trying to find out
as much as i can. But y'all appreciate you all
for tuning in. Of course, if you're not following or
subscribe to the podcast, go ahead and hit that that
follow and subscribe, but and leave a rating five stars
has always appreciated me.

Speaker 2 (01:41:00):
It means more than the world than.

Speaker 1 (01:41:01):
You can know. Helps push the podcast and the algorithms.
So go ahead and leave that review and that rating,
and drop a like on the podcast as well, and
of course follow me on my socials. You can follow
KBR Sports on all platforms at KBR Sports, on Twitter's
at KBR underscore Sports, and then for me, Brendan Abin,
you can just follow me on all platforms as well
and on Twitter's at ab and Brendan. But guys, until

(01:41:23):
next time, I'm out, have a great rest of your day. Y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Appreciate you for listening.

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