August 6, 2025 • 53 mins
Spiritual attachments may manifest in various ways, often leading individuals to feel like they are carrying an unseen burden. These attachments can come from different sources, such as:
Emotional Vulnerability: During times of stress or emotional turmoil, individuals may be more susceptible to attachments.
Traumatic Experiences: Trauma can weaken an individual's energetic field, making it more accessible to spiritual entities.
Curiosity or Exploration: Engaging with spiritual practices or environments without proper protection can open the door to attachments.
Signs of Spiritual Attachments
Recognizing the signs of spiritual and energetic attachments is the first step in addressing them. Some common indicators include:
Unexplained Mood Swings: Sudden changes in emotions without any apparent cause.
Fatigue or Lethargy: Persistent tiredness that doesn't improve with rest.
Intrusive Thoughts: Thoughts or impulses that feel foreign or out of character.
Physical Ailments: Unexplained aches, pains, or illnesses that persist despite medical treatment.
Feeling Watched or Not Alone: A sense of being observed or accompanied by an unseen presence.
Methods to Release Attachments
While the concept of spiritual and energetic attachments can seem daunting, several methods can help individuals release these influences and regain their balance.
1. Cleansing Rituals
Cleansing rituals involve practices aimed at purifying an individual's energy field. Common methods include:
Smudging: Using herbs like sage or palo santo to cleanse an individual's aura and environment.
Salt Baths: Bathing in salt-infused water to draw out negative energies.
Sound Healing: Utilizing sound frequencies, such as singing bowls or tuning forks, to cleanse and uplift energy.
2. Protection Techniques
Implementing protective practices can prevent future attachments:
Visualization: Imagining a protective shield or light surrounding oneself.
Crystals: Carrying or wearing protective stones like black tourmaline or amethyst.
Affirmations: Repeating positive statements to reinforce one's energy field.
3. Seeking Professional Help
In some cases, it may be beneficial to seek guidance from professionals experienced in spiritual and energetic healing:
Energy Healers: Practitioners skilled in techniques such as Reiki or chakra balancing.
Spiritual Advisors: Individuals who can provide insight and guidance on spiritual matters.
Therapists: Professionals who can help address underlying emotional or psychological issues.
Conclusion
Dealing with spiritual and energetic attachments requires awareness, intention, and often a multi-faceted approach. By recognizing the signs and utilizing effective methods for release and protection, individuals can reclaim their energetic sovereignty and enhance their overall well-being. Remember, it's essential to approach these experiences with an open mind and seek support when needed.
Emotional Vulnerability: During times of stress or emotional turmoil, individuals may be more susceptible to attachments.
Traumatic Experiences: Trauma can weaken an individual's energetic field, making it more accessible to spiritual entities.
Curiosity or Exploration: Engaging with spiritual practices or environments without proper protection can open the door to attachments.
Signs of Spiritual Attachments
Recognizing the signs of spiritual and energetic attachments is the first step in addressing them. Some common indicators include:
Unexplained Mood Swings: Sudden changes in emotions without any apparent cause.
Fatigue or Lethargy: Persistent tiredness that doesn't improve with rest.
Intrusive Thoughts: Thoughts or impulses that feel foreign or out of character.
Physical Ailments: Unexplained aches, pains, or illnesses that persist despite medical treatment.
Feeling Watched or Not Alone: A sense of being observed or accompanied by an unseen presence.
Methods to Release Attachments
While the concept of spiritual and energetic attachments can seem daunting, several methods can help individuals release these influences and regain their balance.
1. Cleansing Rituals
Cleansing rituals involve practices aimed at purifying an individual's energy field. Common methods include:
Smudging: Using herbs like sage or palo santo to cleanse an individual's aura and environment.
Salt Baths: Bathing in salt-infused water to draw out negative energies.
Sound Healing: Utilizing sound frequencies, such as singing bowls or tuning forks, to cleanse and uplift energy.
2. Protection Techniques
Implementing protective practices can prevent future attachments:
Visualization: Imagining a protective shield or light surrounding oneself.
Crystals: Carrying or wearing protective stones like black tourmaline or amethyst.
Affirmations: Repeating positive statements to reinforce one's energy field.
3. Seeking Professional Help
In some cases, it may be beneficial to seek guidance from professionals experienced in spiritual and energetic healing:
Energy Healers: Practitioners skilled in techniques such as Reiki or chakra balancing.
Spiritual Advisors: Individuals who can provide insight and guidance on spiritual matters.
Therapists: Professionals who can help address underlying emotional or psychological issues.
Conclusion
Dealing with spiritual and energetic attachments requires awareness, intention, and often a multi-faceted approach. By recognizing the signs and utilizing effective methods for release and protection, individuals can reclaim their energetic sovereignty and enhance their overall well-being. Remember, it's essential to approach these experiences with an open mind and seek support when needed.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Good evening everyone. My name is Jonathan Dover and I
am here with Michelle Minors and Stanley Milford Jr. And
we are the Paranormal Rangers. So we are going to
introduce ourselves to you today. So the title is pretty
(00:49):
much getting to Know the Paranormal Rangers, and so we'll
get going here. We'll start with Michelle, because ladies first,
and Michelle, why don't you tell us a little bit
about yourself and where you come from and all that
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thanks Jonathan, and good to be on this new show,
second season with kg R. It's wonderful to have our
first episode or our show on this network and we
are now being our shows called The Paranormal Rangers for
(01:30):
those of you listening. And so my name is Michelle Miners.
I joined The Rangers last year when John and stan
asked me to come on board, and I had spent
some significant time in the UENTA base and studying the
(01:50):
paranormal phenomena that exists up there. Where I started was
on Skinwalker Ranch assisting one of the cast members of
the show The Mystery of Skinwalker Ranch, which was Jim Mooes,
and I assisted him on looking after the ranch for
(02:12):
some time and found some very interesting phenomena that occurred
there and I had experienced. I'm currently living in the
Utah area and go back and forth on occasions back
up to the UENTA base and the paranormal experience with
(02:32):
the Rangers. This last year, we had another show and
it went really, really well, and we hope our audience
has moved over with us to be a part of
this next season. We are excited to be here and
I'm excited to be a part of this investigative team.
(02:57):
And we hope that in the future that we'll have
some really wonderful things to share of our experiences in
future things that we're investigating.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Now, Michelle. I couldn't help but notice that you are
Native American. Can you tell us a little bit about
your Native American background? Sure?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Sure, of course, that's very obvious, and thank you, Jonathan.
I am of three Native American tribes, one being the
Navajo Nation, the other one is Pawnee, and I'm also Ojibaway,
which is Chippewa of the Chippewa Alagonian Nation.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Those are my three tribes.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I am one hundred percent Native American and of three
different bloodlines from tribes from the East coast, the Midwest,
and the Southwest area.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So that's who I am.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So you got the whole us covered, don't you.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I pretty much do.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And and you're what we call FBI, which is full
blooded Indian, full.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Blooded Indian, and you know, so interesting you say that
parts of Canada. Also, some of my Ojibaway lines come
from the French Canadian area as well, so I cover
pretty much North America.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, a good deal. We're happy to have you on board.
And we've been making Michelle work. She was our producer
on her last podcast and also footing some of the
bills for that. And we've graduated now and now we're
(04:48):
with kg R A and so we've taken a step
up in the podcast world. Stan, why don't you tell
us about yourself? And and then I'm sure Stan has
a book and we'll be giving you links to that
later on, but go ahead and talk to us.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Stan first, welcome to everyone. I'm really privileged and blessed
to be a part of this and I'm thankful to
have worked with Jonathan Dover in the past and the Miners,
the podcast that we had before Native Paranormal Crossroads was
(05:32):
a great success for us and we met a great
many people and so being a part of the kg
r A family, the Digital broadcast family, we're really excited
to go forward to here with this program.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
We're going to bring.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
You a lot of really interesting topics and podcasts on
this particular show we're all really looking for.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
My name again is Stanley Milford Junior.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I have descendants of both Cherokee Lynage and then Navajo Lenach,
my father's full blood Navajo from the Naval Reservation. I
was born in Fort Defiance and grew up there primarily
in the summertimes when my father would fly me and
(06:28):
my older sister Deborah out to the Naval reservation from Oklahoma.
My mother's family is from Tahlequah, Oklahoma, capitol of Cherokee
Nation in Oklahoma.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
And that is really where I went to school from.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Elementary starting elementary school, kindergarten all the way through elementary
and junior high and high school. Graduated high school there
in Tahlequah and later going to school at high school
Indian Junior College, where I got my associative arts degree
(07:13):
Liberal Arts I'm sorry, liberal arts degree. Later I went
to school at Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado, and
later I attended the University of Arizona where at the
time I had started the pre med program there at.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
U of A, and I was.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Contacted by a former boss or director of the Nomination
Parks and Recreation who contacted me and said he was
needing a ranger for monument Ballet and if I would
consider coming back home and going to the Federal Police Academy.
(07:58):
And I I had a secret dream of being a
law enforcement officer, and I took him up on that
and here we are today.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
So I did retire in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
On Sykho Demaya May fifth, twenty twenty three, I got
an offer by HarperCollins Publishing and willyam Morrow to write
a book about my experiences investigating the paranormal and supernatural
cases that Jonathan and I managed while working with the
(08:34):
Navel Rangers.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
So glad to be here. Thank you, John.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, thank you for that introduction. My name is Jonathan Dover,
and I guess I'm taking up host duties today. We're
going to be rotating that just like a wrestling tag
team match. So as we go along the other the
other paranormal ringers get their terms. And so in my background,
(09:06):
I was, well, I'll start out by saying that I'm Navajo,
and I'm also Cheyenne or Southern Cheyenne, and I'm what
they used to call Kaiwa Apache, but they now call
it Apache Tribe of Oklahoma. These are planes Apaches rode
(09:32):
horses and had a horse culture and lived in tepees
and camp near the Kaiwa was on a pretty regular basis.
So when the ethnographers got there, they said, oh, these
they we'll just call them Kaiwa Apaches. And then I'm
also part Filipino, so I'm I'm covering the world here
(09:57):
with a lot of different play and somewhere in there
there may be some Arapa Ho. So my ancestors were
at Sand Creek. I'm descended from Chief White Antelope, and
there's another chief on the Atchie side, Captain Koso. That
(10:22):
there's a relationship there. And my great grandmother was taken
as a child Debosca Redondo with the Navajo Long Walk,
and she actually escaped as a little girl and made
it all the way home, so there's quite lineage there.
(10:46):
I got into law enforcement and joined the Navajo Rangers,
in nineteen eighty, so I didn't even know what a
ranger was, and they said, well, you're going to be
doing all these things, everything involved in resources. We handled
(11:11):
natural resources, game and fish, forestry, archaeology, agriculture, water resources,
minds and minerals with mandate for search and rescue, and
also being red carded in fire suppression for wildland fire.
(11:36):
And it was extensive training. I received over four thousand
hours of training in my thirty one years and retired
in twenty eleven. Me and both me and Stan we
were tasked with investigating paranormal cases. And I'll let him
(12:01):
tell you the story of how we we got assigned
to those cases. We didn't. We didn't volunteer. I always
say that we got volunteered. Stan. Would you tell him
how we got involved?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Sure? Thank you John.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
You know, John and I have traveled the world, you know,
places like Scotland and Canada and all over the US
presenting conducting a presentation regarding the cases that he and
I investigated over the course of the time that we
(12:43):
worked under special Projects together. And then later after John
had retired in twenty ten or eleven was it John?
When he retired eleven twenty eleven need on with the
department and later assuming a delegated role of chief Ranger
(13:08):
for a little over two years.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
During that whole process, I.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Was continuing to investigate these cases that would fall under
paranormal supernatural. So people often ask us when we travel
about the world, how did you guys get into investigating
these kind of cases. And so there was a case
where there were two young rookie rangers that had been
(13:37):
assigned to what people know and referred to as sasquatch
or Bigfoot, And there was an elderly woman who lived.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Up in the.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Up in the Chusca mountains, and this was often referred
to as sheep camp during the summer months, so the
elderly of the Navajo with heard their livestock hurts up
into the mountains, be it sheep or cattle, or up
there in the mountains, it's a lot cooler, greener, you
(14:11):
have a lot more uh spring water, running water, and
so it's a very nice place to have your cattle
during during the hot months. So she had her feep
up there, and according to her, one of these things
that people referred to as bigfoot stepped over into her
(14:32):
sheep corral. Picked up one of her sheep under its
arm and took off with it. And for the Navel people,
livestock is a way of life. It's very critical. It's
it's a fundamental way and has been for since since
(14:52):
the very beginning. And so she called the environment and
our dispatcher assigned these two young rangers to go up
and respond to this call. They get up there, and
one of these, one of these young rookie rangers, he's
like a comedian. Everything he says and does is a
(15:15):
joke or laughing or he's just a joker in his personality.
And I think really that when the grandmother heard him
carrying on either back at the corral or at the
patrol unit, she felt that he wasn't taking this particular
case seriously, and so she recontacted the department, got the
(15:42):
chief on the line, and I'm sure as any Navajo
grandmother can do, she she scolded the chief really thoroughly.
And so with that, the chief called a department wide beating.
He called in at the time, we probably had forty
five forty plus rangers. He called in all our commission
(16:06):
rangers staff meeting, and he said, look, he said, you've
chosen a career in law enforcement, and in doing so,
you have chosen primarily one of two things to either
help people or protect people. And he said, you may
(16:26):
not understand these cases that involve the supernatural or paranormal,
but these people are asking for help, and a lot
of times they're traumatized and they don't have anybody else
to reach out to.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
You.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
He said, so when you get these calls, you're going
to take them like you would any other call. You're
going to respond professionally. You're going to investigate to your
full ability. And he looks over at Jonathan and I
sitting next to him, because we are already part of
special projects, and he said, and you two, you two
(17:02):
are going to manage these cases. You're going to oversee
these investigations and ensure that they're properly investigated and that
that it's done professionally. And John and I responded, yes, sir,
which that was always our response to the chief. We
respected him highly, not only being an elder Navajo man,
(17:30):
but very wise in law enforcement, law enforcement procedures, and capability.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
And he had been the chief police chief of police.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
For a number of years before he even became the
chief of the NAVA Rangers. So John and I, you know,
it wasn't like we volunteered to be the Navox files
or anything like that. Just like John said, we were
kind of volunteerd that this was our responsibility and it
(18:02):
was an official duty, an official assignment.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
John and I approached this.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Reaching out to those organizations like MUFON and Robert Bigelow's
group out of Las Vegas, because they already had investigators
that were investigating UFOs and contact by extra threshure or
alien alien species and beans, and we reached out to
(18:33):
them to get their insight. And I'll let John talk
a little bit more how we got into doing the
presentations and all of that really quick.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Okay, So here we are starting to investigate cases, and
as we went along there was more and more information
where everybody's just to let you know, we handled cases
(19:06):
involving hauntings, We handled bigfoot cases, and we handled UFO cases,
and then we handled cases involving the fabled Navajo skin walker,
and those cases in particular can be very very dangerous,
(19:29):
and we wouldn't recommend anybody to go looking for these things.
It's not about going out and being scared or anything else.
It's something that can actually injure or kill you, and
so we actually tell film crews that that's not what
(19:52):
we're about. So as we went along, there was more
and more infant nation that we needed, and we were
having to study all these subjects and find out how
to best to investigate them. And at one point we
(20:13):
had a rather startling ground occupant sighting of UFO and
with an old man. We call it the Old Man case.
And in order to gather more information to know which
questions to ask, we contacted Moufan, the mutual UFO network
(20:35):
in Arizona, and they sent us a copy of their
investigator's manual that really helped. They also sent one of
their investigators. Later on we needed further information, so I
told Stan, that says, Stan, get your tinfoil hat. We're
(20:56):
going to go down to Fort mcdell to the International
UFO Congress and we're going to go see all the
crazy people. And so that's we went down there. It
took a drive, and that's for us. For Stan, I
think it's about a four hour drive down there. And
(21:18):
by the time we got there and we started talking
to people, we met people like Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin.
We met doctor Lynn Katai, and we met the leaders
of Arizona Mouffon, and they kept encouraging us that we
(21:41):
needed to talk and we needed to speak, and we
thought about it for a while, and finally I told Stan,
I says, I don't know about you, but I'm getting
too old to worry about what people think about me anymore.
So off we went and we spoke at Phoenix Moufon
(22:03):
and there was a little guy sitting up front taking
furiously taking notes on a clipboard. Turned out his name
was Alejandro Rojas, and he was one of the editors
for Open Minds magazine, and he invited us to come
(22:26):
and speak at the International Congress in twenty thirteen, and
we did and made quite the splash. I had a
lot of people just mobbing us afterwards, and took us
three and a half hours to talk to people out
(22:48):
in the lobby until we finally got done. So that's
how we got into speaking, and since then, I would
say we've probably been doing about one hundred different speaking
engagements together or separately. Stan was still working at the times,
so he had to kind of put it on hold.
(23:11):
We both appeared on Netflix Unsolved Mysteries, and we always
tell people, if you want to really see a good show,
we had told the producers at Netflix that we would
not do that unless they gave a did an accurate
(23:33):
portrayal of us, and they came through with flying colors
and did so. So when they did that, it really
came out good. They had a really good cematographer. And
so if you go over to Netflix, go to season three,
(23:55):
episode five, it's called Paranormal Rangers. So anyway, that's how
we got into that. That's all the different things that
we did. And since then, one or the other of
us has been on beyond Skinwalker Ranch. We've been on
Skinwalker Ranch Ancient Aliens, and it's there. There, there's serious
(24:25):
and there's just so many different TV shows. I always
joke with Stan and Michelle and tell them that I'm
going to live wherever and reruns. Yeah, I mean get
old and wrinkled and tribbled up, but you'll still see
me in my prime. Anyway. Michelle, Uh, why don't you
(24:47):
tell us? I don't know if you have any stories
for us.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, it's interesting, John, thank you. Uh, yeah, you know,
like yourselves. I didn't ask to I was and really
wanting to be in this space to be honest. And
you know, as time goes on, you find yourself in
situations and different parts of your life. And so when
(25:13):
I was asked to go out to the Uenta base
and to assist in Brandon Fugel's ranch, I assisted in
that and getting acquainted with the Native American community. They
looked at me and Jim as the Jehovah witness of
that area because we worked so well together. And what
(25:35):
happened was we were finding stories of people who had
lived in the uent To base and you know, either
all their life or they've had experiences and they didn't
know how to share their experiences. They and people would
treat them as though that they they didn't have these experience,
They thought that they were crazy.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But I have.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Done over four hundred interviews of the un To base
of individuals and their stories, and it's been very fascinating
to me because I went there with a critical eye
and I thought, oh, this stuff isn't true. One of
the individuals I got to know was a gentleman. He's
(26:17):
now passed on as Junior Hicks. And Junior Hicks wrote
a book with doctor Salisbury, and it was really interesting
to get to know him. He was in his nineties
when we got acquainted, but to listen to his stories
and his interactions with the Native American community and also
(26:38):
the community at large. He taught at the schools, he
was a master elect Electrician technician, and he was just
he was so involved in the experiences from early on.
And he actually met with Edgard Mitchell, the astronaut at
(26:59):
big Ol' was compound there in Las Vegas, Nevada, and
it was really interesting to hear his stories, and so
as things began to form, you know, I was just
listening and thinking, Okay, these are really interesting stories. But
what it got really interesting is when I started to
(27:20):
have my own experiences up there and you went to Basin.
So after you know, time after time after time, I
was seeing things I was visited. There's a lot of experience,
you know, in stories that I have had had to
myself and asked a lot of questions, you know, And
(27:41):
you had mentioned moufon Whizzlry, you know, where people go
and they report what their experiences were. But that was paper,
that was you know, forms they had to fill out,
and so I didn't want to do that. I was
a little apprehensive to talk. And there's another show up there,
Duayne Hollinger's you know show, Blink Frog Ranch The Mystery
(28:07):
of Blank Frog Ranch, and then Brandon's is a Secret
of Skinwalker Ranch. I think I turned that around earlier
and had worked with both individuals up and you went
to base not because of their show. It was because
I wanted to know what this phenomena was all about.
(28:28):
So I had partner up with a gentleman by the
name of Jim Sigala who was on the first season
of skin Walker. As you mentioned, you guys were on
some of their episodes and we did some electromagnetic field
testing and experiences out there. But what we correlated in
the end it was it was connected to the individual
(28:49):
having the experiences that this phenomena would show up. And
that's a little bit more scientific based. But what we
found out is when an individual had experience is there
would be a reaction, a cause and effect in their
lives that it would occur.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So we have.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
This three or four year study that we've done around
the experiential experiences and of individuals in the Uenta base,
and what we were finding is that the Native Americans
seem to have a lot more experiences than say, the
community of individuals who lived there were who were non native.
(29:31):
And it was fascinating to me because I was also
having these experiences at an experiential rate, and I didn't
know what to think about what I was experiencing, and
so I would ask a lot of questions.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I would do a lot of field testing.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I would go and have these extraordinary experiences, and I,
you know, would go and speak about it. But there
was ridicule that was involved. And you guys like you
were talking about how you went your field office as
field officers or law enforcement officers. You were asked to
(30:10):
handle these cases because the navel nation and the individuals
who live on that are you know, our people look
at this phenomena as though it is a part of
the traditions.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Of our lives. And where I.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Was on the reservation, they they did too. But the
interesting thing is they didn't like to talk about it
because they felt like it would be able to conjure
up some of these things. And to your point, Jonathan
and stand the skin walker lore, you don't like talking
about it. We don't like sharing that because we feel
(30:47):
like these are part of our traditions and our way
of life to respect our own traditions on the reservation.
But it's really interesting up there, and the you went
to Basin as you guys have been up there and
have felt the anomalies that are up there.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
And then when I met.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
John and we had dinner and Jim introduced us, and
I just found it very intriguing that this phenomena is
everywhere worldwide and we're now out there investigating that as
a team.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So that's kind of a little bit about me.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Well, thank you. We actually have areas on the Navo
Reservation that would rival skin Walker Ranch probably as far
as far as the phenomenon goes, and we just don't
advertise it. We don't talk about it because a lot
(31:49):
of the natives up here are traditional and so in
a traditional sense, you don't talk about those things. You
don't draw attention to it, because to draw attention is
to have it manifest even more, and they don't want that.
(32:11):
And we've asked them over and over, why don't you
report this to Moufan and let them do an investigation,
And they tell us, well, if we tell somebody like that,
they'll bring a whole bunch of people up here. They'll
all stand around sing kumbaya, and those sky gods will
(32:36):
not come here anymore. And the Navo, along with a
lot of other tribes, have a tradition that they were
visited in the past by sky beings or holy people
who came to this land and told them, this is
(32:58):
what you need to do. This is how you need
to live. These are your your moral values. You don't
kill people, you don't steal, you don't know, just all
these these things that dos and don't about how to
live your life. And I often tell people that some
(33:20):
of the ceremonies that they have, uh, there's always a
clown involved at the end of the line. The Apache, Uh,
the Paches have them, and and uh the Navos have them,
and the clown represents the five fingered people because the
clown doesn't listen and he does what he wants to do,
(33:43):
and usually the opposite of what he's taught. And so,
you know, for for our audience out there, it's it's
it's important to realize that there's a connection there too, uh,
sky beings or whole people, and that this is why
(34:05):
we do this kind of work, and we have to
be respectful of those things.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Well, you know, it's interesting, Jonathan, on previous shows you
spoke about the cavalry, how they came in and took
away the ghost dance and standing. You both have discussed
this on our previous shows, how that was taken away,
And I think sometimes our nations don't want to talk
about it because we hold them sacred because they were
taken at one time away from us. In our tribes
(34:35):
and everything, and like with my Pawnee tribe, we are
too called the sky people, and we have buffalo skins,
you know, because we were told that we are the
sky people, and we set up our communities. It was
a result of these buffalo skins that showed where we planted,
(34:57):
our fields, where we lived, the night stars that we
had looked upon as our guides and our gods, and
so you know, we're not nothing new to us. This
is a respect things, and we like to tell our
audience it's a respect thing. Is something that we have
lived with for millennia, and when something is taken away,
(35:22):
we don't want to talk about it. We don't want
to be ridiculed, we don't want to be shamed, and
so that still happens today with people who have these
extraordinary experiences with the phenomena.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Stan, could you tell us in your words, what happened
to you when you were tasked with investigating a haunting
case at an office building.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Sure, so, these calls would come into the department and
to the chief, and he would reach out to John
and I to assign these cases. Sometimes when we were
in the field, people would approach us with their own experiences,
(36:14):
and likewise it had been mentioned.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
Earlier and brought up by Michelle.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
You know, a lot of these experiences aren't always pleasant
a lot of times, and what John and I found
was that these individuals were on some level traumatized by
the experience, whether it was a teenage child that was
experiencing and had witnessed a bigfoot, or whether it was
(36:45):
an elderly person having an encounter with these things. A
lot of times, when we first experienced these kind of things,
a lot of times it's out of the blue. We're
going about our lives doing the regular things that we're
familiar with, and then all of a sudden, you have
this experience. So Chief reached out to me and he
(37:09):
said that there was a director with one of the
other departments under Natural Resources. They had staff that were
experiencing all kinds of different, strange, otherworldly activity within their
office space to the point that it was interrupting the workplace.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
So I began going and.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Set up an investigation of that particular building. Chief afforded
me and John to be able to reach out to
other experts in the paranormal field, even external of our
even our department. So I put together a team and
we went in on two days conducting an investigation. We
(38:03):
did interviews of all the staff there, and one lady
was getting this really what most people with termers for
harassing phone calls, just call after call after call coming
into her workstation. And when I first met with her,
(38:24):
I said, well, you know you're gonna have to You're
gonna have to start.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Documenting these calls coming in.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
And she ended up passing a spiral notebook to me
the page after page after page.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
Of calls that had come in.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
And she had actually reached out to the phone company
and CI Criminal Investigation with nomination to try to get
some assistance in finding out who was doing this, who
was wherever the calls originating, and even the phone company
(39:04):
could not determine where the calls were coming.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
In from, and so it was very disturbing.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
One of the phenomena and I experience going into that
investigation was what was termed an a port.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
So back in the spirit spiritualist movement of.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
The eighteen eighties and further on into the nineteen hundreds,
they come up with this word a port, which meant
it was describing when you'd take a physical object that
would appear out of nothingness, or sometimes objects would disappear
(39:45):
and and but there is some type of movement of
a physical object. In this case, in the haunting case,
it was coins. There would be us us coin, Nichols, pennies, dimes,
and corners that would fall.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
Out of thin air, fall out.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Of nuttiness, you know, right right here in front of us.
It would fall on the floor or sometimes they would
come flying across the room and hit us.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
And so.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
For those two days investigation there was a total sixty
six coins that appeared or but we we documented those coins,
photographed them. In criminal investigation, when you have evidence that
needs to be logged, you'll one of the techniques is
(40:43):
to measure out from a corner of a room to
the object. From one corner and then from another corner
because those are fixed points of reference, so you'd be
able to take those measures and determine an exact location.
We used GPS too at that time. We began using
GPS for different things, but totally sixty six coins. The
(41:06):
coins would behave like any other coin that you would
pull out of your pocket and flip in the air.
They'd hit and they would make a big arc and
spiral in and fall over.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Out of all the sixty six.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Coins, they all landed heads up. And for most people,
you know, going through school and science and learning, when
you study statistics and probability, you know that that won't happen.
They won't always land heads up or tails up.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
It can't.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
It'll be generally half and half half heads half tails,
depending on how many times you flip it up.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
But over the years we had.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Analyzed the coins the years, there was higher frequency with
these weak penny peenis several several seven or eight or
so within that sixty six which was a high high rate.
But in the end I came up with just a
(42:15):
general understanding that this was spirit. It was communicating with
me because there was an attachment for him to me
that still exists to this very day, and and but
it was spirit letting me know, heads up, I'm present,
I'm in that space in and around you, and natives,
(42:36):
you know, have this understanding. Times animals communicate, there's a
spirit communication through animals. Sometimes these are omens or warnings
or things.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
To be cautious of, to be alert.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Maybe there's something dangerous coming up and it'll try to
warn us.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
But that's how I look at this stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
I've talked to medicine man and shaman about the phenomenon
that it's never been anything that had any type of
negative energy associated with it. So so it happens, it
happens in my home. And the last one I think
in my home was on New Year's Day, I believe,
(43:23):
and I think I've had a couple more since then
when I've been out.
Speaker 5 (43:27):
But it's very.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Unique, and that case was very intense, a lot of
different types of phenomenon, things moving chairs flying across the room,
things exploding, voices captured on audio, you know, seeing seeing
(43:49):
seeing shadows, stuff you know within that building. Very unique case,
very eye opening, definitely.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Hey, Jonathan, why don't you share what happened like three
weeks ago with our show with all three of us.
As we were experiencing what happened. We wish, we wish
we caught some of it on on camera, but we
had wish what happened afterwards.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Would you like to share that, John.
Speaker 5 (44:14):
Yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
We were we wrapped up our show and we were
all getting.
Speaker 5 (44:25):
Done.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It wasn't recording anymore, and so we were just kind
of kidd seen with each other and talking about the show,
and Michelle heard something behind her, U this this bang,
you know, and she was She looked behind her and
(44:49):
she was startled, to say the least. And I started
looking for terrestrial explanations right away, and I said, was
anything stacked up against the wall behind you that fell over?
And she says, no, something smacked into the wall. And
(45:09):
so we went from there and after a little bit,
she looked around and she found a square aluminum can
on the floor that was a small one, you know,
and it was full of bomb, you know, so it
(45:31):
had some weight to it. And then she found where
it had struck the wall. And so she's facing us,
she's facing the camera, and this thing hits behind her
on the wall and you could actually see a dent
in the dry wall and she took the can and
(45:53):
matched up the corner to where the impact was and
we were just sitting there going wow. You know, of
all times we didn't we didn't have the recording running,
and a paranormal event happens right with us there. So
(46:16):
things tend to happen all the time. Sometimes we're aware
of it, sometimes we find out about it later. And
one of the things that we do as paranormal rangers
is we would probably not be very entertaining on TV
(46:36):
because we wouldn't be running around screaming and in our
hands up in the air. You won't see that. With us,
We're going to be pretty you know, down to earth,
look at it and try to find an explanation. Sometimes
(46:57):
there are terrestrial explanations for for what you're seeing. And
we've actually Stan investigated one case where where this guy
saw lights coming up from the horizon every evening about
the same time, and he was saying, they're UFOs and
(47:18):
they're blinking off and on and and Stan went out
there and took all his uh. We we used to
call it stand Inspector dadget because he carries if you
need a battery, if you need a pen, if you
need any kind of thing. He probably has it in
(47:38):
his in his backpack, and so we rely on him
rather extensively when when we forget things. And he went
out there and he took a compass reading and then
waited for this phenomenon to happen. And pretty soon, sure enough,
(47:59):
the lights came up and they were blinking and you know,
off and on, and the guy was getting really excited,
you know, hey, there it is. There it is. And
Stan took the compass reading in the asthma and correlated
it with a quad sheet and there was a community
(48:22):
just over the hill from that location, and what they
were seeing was the lights of that community during a
temperature inversion. And it gives you a mirage, just like
when you're at the ocean and you see a ship
that looks like it's floating in the air. So it's
(48:46):
just a warm air and cold air meeting and it
creates a mirage in the air. And so that's what
they were seeing. And Stan told them this is a
mirage what you're seeing, and believe it or not. The
guy says, oh, no, those are aliens. They're coming, and
(49:07):
he just wouldn't believe Stans explanation for that situation, and
so Stan just closed out the case and says, Okay,
we found out what it was. So yeah, yeah, one
of the things we do is we never respond with fear,
(49:28):
because to respond with fear is to give whatever that
that thing is, to give it your energy and allow
it to manifest even more. And so we don't like
to give it any additional energy.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
You know, John, you know you talked about that incident
half and off camera, but what was going on on
camera that exact same show and Stan did a shout
out to Darth Vader.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Do you remember that you had?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
We had a guy coming on and he sounded like
he was wearing a mask like Darth Vader breathing technique,
and Stan and I we were like, do you have
your like, is your microphone working? We have somebody, but
there was nobody in on the broadcast that was making
that sort of sound because we were all talking.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
And we were all muting our microphones too.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, because we were told to mute. And
it was really interesting to me that sometimes these phenomena
will show up during the show. Just the audience don't
freak out. It was really fun. It was a fun
audience that day. Because they were they could hear it too,
and that was what was so fascinating about that show
(50:47):
is our audience was responding in our comments section.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
So those kind of things will happen.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
It will happen on this show, and I'm excited for
that for them to understand this phenomena. As we have experiences,
they get the experience with us.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
So and we're getting ready to close down here, I
think our time is getting close, So Stan, do you
have any final thoughts.
Speaker 4 (51:21):
Well, I would like to say that this particular episode
is just the introduction of our podcasts. It doesn't really
get into the meat and potatoes of what the three
of us have done in the past with these productions
(51:43):
and podcasts, and some of them get really really exciting,
just like Michelle and John had conveyed, where we actually
got some interaction by some type of energy or entity
and uh and uh so, it's it is really exciting,
(52:04):
and especially as we move forward and we get some
interaction with our audience, we'll get some really unique questions
and a different perspective a lot of times from kind
of out of the blue, and it really makes a
fun a fun show.
Speaker 5 (52:24):
And uh So.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
I'm really looking forward to sharing you know, this podcast
with everyone. I just really quick, uh, I do have
a book out.
Speaker 5 (52:37):
It's entitled The Paranormal Ranger.
Speaker 4 (52:41):
It is uh a Navo investigator search for the Unexplained.
Speaker 5 (52:46):
You can find this anywhere anywhere you.
Speaker 4 (52:49):
Can buy books Harper, Harper Collins or or Barnes and Noble.
And so I'm really excited that that everyone has is
really interested in be you know, putting this book out there,
because I think it does explain a lot of this phenomenon.
I also would like people to if you're really interested
(53:10):
in the work you know that we've.
Speaker 5 (53:12):
Done in the past, you can go on to Netflix.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
As John said earlier, Netflix Unsolved Mysterys Season three, Episode five,
and you'll get a taste of the stuff we're going
to be talking about.
Speaker 5 (53:28):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
Welcome. Hey, just a shout out.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I'm going to be at the UFO con at twenty
twenty five. Make contact on the Bay that's in the
Crown Plaza at Berlin Game, California. This is the UFO
conference where Woo Woo meets Wow. So y'all go to
the website if you're in the Bay area, come out
April fourth, fifth, and six and thank you everybody for
(53:56):
being and following us to this new platform with KGr.
And we want to say thank you to Kjerra for
taking us on
Good evening everyone. My name is Jonathan Dover and I
am here with Michelle Minors and Stanley Milford Jr. And
we are the Paranormal Rangers. So we are going to
introduce ourselves to you today. So the title is pretty
(00:49):
much getting to Know the Paranormal Rangers, and so we'll
get going here. We'll start with Michelle, because ladies first,
and Michelle, why don't you tell us a little bit
about yourself and where you come from and all that
good stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thanks Jonathan, and good to be on this new show,
second season with kg R. It's wonderful to have our
first episode or our show on this network and we
are now being our shows called The Paranormal Rangers for
(01:30):
those of you listening. And so my name is Michelle Miners.
I joined The Rangers last year when John and stan
asked me to come on board, and I had spent
some significant time in the UENTA base and studying the
(01:50):
paranormal phenomena that exists up there. Where I started was
on Skinwalker Ranch assisting one of the cast members of
the show The Mystery of Skinwalker Ranch, which was Jim Mooes,
and I assisted him on looking after the ranch for
(02:12):
some time and found some very interesting phenomena that occurred
there and I had experienced. I'm currently living in the
Utah area and go back and forth on occasions back
up to the UENTA base and the paranormal experience with
(02:32):
the Rangers. This last year, we had another show and
it went really, really well, and we hope our audience
has moved over with us to be a part of
this next season. We are excited to be here and
I'm excited to be a part of this investigative team.
(02:57):
And we hope that in the future that we'll have
some really wonderful things to share of our experiences in
future things that we're investigating.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
That's me in a nutshell.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Now, Michelle. I couldn't help but notice that you are
Native American. Can you tell us a little bit about
your Native American background? Sure?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Sure, of course, that's very obvious, and thank you, Jonathan.
I am of three Native American tribes, one being the
Navajo Nation, the other one is Pawnee, and I'm also Ojibaway,
which is Chippewa of the Chippewa Alagonian Nation.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Those are my three tribes.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I am one hundred percent Native American and of three
different bloodlines from tribes from the East coast, the Midwest,
and the Southwest area.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So that's who I am.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So you got the whole us covered, don't you.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
I pretty much do.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
And and you're what we call FBI, which is full
blooded Indian, full.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Blooded Indian, and you know, so interesting you say that
parts of Canada. Also, some of my Ojibaway lines come
from the French Canadian area as well, so I cover
pretty much North America.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, a good deal. We're happy to have you on board.
And we've been making Michelle work. She was our producer
on her last podcast and also footing some of the
bills for that. And we've graduated now and now we're
(04:48):
with kg R A and so we've taken a step
up in the podcast world. Stan, why don't you tell
us about yourself? And and then I'm sure Stan has
a book and we'll be giving you links to that
later on, but go ahead and talk to us.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
Stan first, welcome to everyone. I'm really privileged and blessed
to be a part of this and I'm thankful to
have worked with Jonathan Dover in the past and the Miners,
the podcast that we had before Native Paranormal Crossroads was
(05:32):
a great success for us and we met a great
many people and so being a part of the kg
r A family, the Digital broadcast family, we're really excited
to go forward to here with this program.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
We're going to bring.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
You a lot of really interesting topics and podcasts on
this particular show we're all really looking for.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
My name again is Stanley Milford Junior.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
I have descendants of both Cherokee Lynage and then Navajo Lenach,
my father's full blood Navajo from the Naval Reservation. I
was born in Fort Defiance and grew up there primarily
in the summertimes when my father would fly me and
(06:28):
my older sister Deborah out to the Naval reservation from Oklahoma.
My mother's family is from Tahlequah, Oklahoma, capitol of Cherokee
Nation in Oklahoma.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
And that is really where I went to school from.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Elementary starting elementary school, kindergarten all the way through elementary
and junior high and high school. Graduated high school there
in Tahlequah and later going to school at high school
Indian Junior College, where I got my associative arts degree
(07:13):
Liberal Arts I'm sorry, liberal arts degree. Later I went
to school at Fort Lewis College in Durango, Colorado, and
later I attended the University of Arizona where at the
time I had started the pre med program there at.
Speaker 5 (07:34):
U of A, and I was.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Contacted by a former boss or director of the Nomination
Parks and Recreation who contacted me and said he was
needing a ranger for monument Ballet and if I would
consider coming back home and going to the Federal Police Academy.
(07:58):
And I I had a secret dream of being a
law enforcement officer, and I took him up on that
and here we are today.
Speaker 5 (08:08):
So I did retire in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
On Sykho Demaya May fifth, twenty twenty three, I got
an offer by HarperCollins Publishing and willyam Morrow to write
a book about my experiences investigating the paranormal and supernatural
cases that Jonathan and I managed while working with the
(08:34):
Navel Rangers.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
So glad to be here. Thank you, John.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, thank you for that introduction. My name is Jonathan Dover,
and I guess I'm taking up host duties today. We're
going to be rotating that just like a wrestling tag
team match. So as we go along the other the
other paranormal ringers get their terms. And so in my background,
(09:06):
I was, well, I'll start out by saying that I'm Navajo,
and I'm also Cheyenne or Southern Cheyenne, and I'm what
they used to call Kaiwa Apache, but they now call
it Apache Tribe of Oklahoma. These are planes Apaches rode
(09:32):
horses and had a horse culture and lived in tepees
and camp near the Kaiwa was on a pretty regular basis.
So when the ethnographers got there, they said, oh, these
they we'll just call them Kaiwa Apaches. And then I'm
also part Filipino, so I'm I'm covering the world here
(09:57):
with a lot of different play and somewhere in there
there may be some Arapa Ho. So my ancestors were
at Sand Creek. I'm descended from Chief White Antelope, and
there's another chief on the Atchie side, Captain Koso. That
(10:22):
there's a relationship there. And my great grandmother was taken
as a child Debosca Redondo with the Navajo Long Walk,
and she actually escaped as a little girl and made
it all the way home, so there's quite lineage there.
(10:46):
I got into law enforcement and joined the Navajo Rangers,
in nineteen eighty, so I didn't even know what a
ranger was, and they said, well, you're going to be
doing all these things, everything involved in resources. We handled
(11:11):
natural resources, game and fish, forestry, archaeology, agriculture, water resources,
minds and minerals with mandate for search and rescue, and
also being red carded in fire suppression for wildland fire.
(11:36):
And it was extensive training. I received over four thousand
hours of training in my thirty one years and retired
in twenty eleven. Me and both me and Stan we
were tasked with investigating paranormal cases. And I'll let him
(12:01):
tell you the story of how we we got assigned
to those cases. We didn't. We didn't volunteer. I always
say that we got volunteered. Stan. Would you tell him
how we got involved?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Sure? Thank you John.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
You know, John and I have traveled the world, you know,
places like Scotland and Canada and all over the US
presenting conducting a presentation regarding the cases that he and
I investigated over the course of the time that we
(12:43):
worked under special Projects together. And then later after John
had retired in twenty ten or eleven was it John?
When he retired eleven twenty eleven need on with the
department and later assuming a delegated role of chief Ranger
(13:08):
for a little over two years.
Speaker 5 (13:10):
During that whole process, I.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Was continuing to investigate these cases that would fall under
paranormal supernatural. So people often ask us when we travel
about the world, how did you guys get into investigating
these kind of cases. And so there was a case
where there were two young rookie rangers that had been
(13:37):
assigned to what people know and referred to as sasquatch
or Bigfoot, And there was an elderly woman who lived.
Speaker 5 (13:48):
Up in the.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Up in the Chusca mountains, and this was often referred
to as sheep camp during the summer months, so the
elderly of the Navajo with heard their livestock hurts up
into the mountains, be it sheep or cattle, or up
there in the mountains, it's a lot cooler, greener, you
(14:11):
have a lot more uh spring water, running water, and
so it's a very nice place to have your cattle
during during the hot months. So she had her feep
up there, and according to her, one of these things
that people referred to as bigfoot stepped over into her
(14:32):
sheep corral. Picked up one of her sheep under its
arm and took off with it. And for the Navel people,
livestock is a way of life. It's very critical. It's
it's a fundamental way and has been for since since
(14:52):
the very beginning. And so she called the environment and
our dispatcher assigned these two young rangers to go up
and respond to this call. They get up there, and
one of these, one of these young rookie rangers, he's
like a comedian. Everything he says and does is a
(15:15):
joke or laughing or he's just a joker in his personality.
And I think really that when the grandmother heard him
carrying on either back at the corral or at the
patrol unit, she felt that he wasn't taking this particular
case seriously, and so she recontacted the department, got the
(15:42):
chief on the line, and I'm sure as any Navajo
grandmother can do, she she scolded the chief really thoroughly.
And so with that, the chief called a department wide beating.
He called in at the time, we probably had forty
five forty plus rangers. He called in all our commission
(16:06):
rangers staff meeting, and he said, look, he said, you've
chosen a career in law enforcement, and in doing so,
you have chosen primarily one of two things to either
help people or protect people. And he said, you may
(16:26):
not understand these cases that involve the supernatural or paranormal,
but these people are asking for help, and a lot
of times they're traumatized and they don't have anybody else
to reach out to.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
You.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
He said, so when you get these calls, you're going
to take them like you would any other call. You're
going to respond professionally. You're going to investigate to your
full ability. And he looks over at Jonathan and I
sitting next to him, because we are already part of
special projects, and he said, and you two, you two
(17:02):
are going to manage these cases. You're going to oversee
these investigations and ensure that they're properly investigated and that
that it's done professionally. And John and I responded, yes, sir,
which that was always our response to the chief. We
respected him highly, not only being an elder Navajo man,
(17:30):
but very wise in law enforcement, law enforcement procedures, and capability.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
And he had been the chief police chief of police.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
For a number of years before he even became the
chief of the NAVA Rangers. So John and I, you know,
it wasn't like we volunteered to be the Navox files
or anything like that. Just like John said, we were
kind of volunteerd that this was our responsibility and it
(18:02):
was an official duty, an official assignment.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
John and I approached this.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Reaching out to those organizations like MUFON and Robert Bigelow's
group out of Las Vegas, because they already had investigators
that were investigating UFOs and contact by extra threshure or
alien alien species and beans, and we reached out to
(18:33):
them to get their insight. And I'll let John talk
a little bit more how we got into doing the
presentations and all of that really quick.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Okay, So here we are starting to investigate cases, and
as we went along there was more and more information
where everybody's just to let you know, we handled cases
(19:06):
involving hauntings, We handled bigfoot cases, and we handled UFO cases,
and then we handled cases involving the fabled Navajo skin walker,
and those cases in particular can be very very dangerous,
(19:29):
and we wouldn't recommend anybody to go looking for these things.
It's not about going out and being scared or anything else.
It's something that can actually injure or kill you, and
so we actually tell film crews that that's not what
(19:52):
we're about. So as we went along, there was more
and more infant nation that we needed, and we were
having to study all these subjects and find out how
to best to investigate them. And at one point we
(20:13):
had a rather startling ground occupant sighting of UFO and
with an old man. We call it the Old Man case.
And in order to gather more information to know which
questions to ask, we contacted Moufan, the mutual UFO network
(20:35):
in Arizona, and they sent us a copy of their
investigator's manual that really helped. They also sent one of
their investigators. Later on we needed further information, so I
told Stan, that says, Stan, get your tinfoil hat. We're
(20:56):
going to go down to Fort mcdell to the International
UFO Congress and we're going to go see all the
crazy people. And so that's we went down there. It
took a drive, and that's for us. For Stan, I
think it's about a four hour drive down there. And
(21:18):
by the time we got there and we started talking
to people, we met people like Stanton Friedman and Kathleen Martin.
We met doctor Lynn Katai, and we met the leaders
of Arizona Mouffon, and they kept encouraging us that we
(21:41):
needed to talk and we needed to speak, and we
thought about it for a while, and finally I told Stan,
I says, I don't know about you, but I'm getting
too old to worry about what people think about me anymore.
So off we went and we spoke at Phoenix Moufon
(22:03):
and there was a little guy sitting up front taking
furiously taking notes on a clipboard. Turned out his name
was Alejandro Rojas, and he was one of the editors
for Open Minds magazine, and he invited us to come
(22:26):
and speak at the International Congress in twenty thirteen, and
we did and made quite the splash. I had a
lot of people just mobbing us afterwards, and took us
three and a half hours to talk to people out
(22:48):
in the lobby until we finally got done. So that's
how we got into speaking, and since then, I would
say we've probably been doing about one hundred different speaking
engagements together or separately. Stan was still working at the times,
so he had to kind of put it on hold.
(23:11):
We both appeared on Netflix Unsolved Mysteries, and we always
tell people, if you want to really see a good show,
we had told the producers at Netflix that we would
not do that unless they gave a did an accurate
(23:33):
portrayal of us, and they came through with flying colors
and did so. So when they did that, it really
came out good. They had a really good cematographer. And
so if you go over to Netflix, go to season three,
(23:55):
episode five, it's called Paranormal Rangers. So anyway, that's how
we got into that. That's all the different things that
we did. And since then, one or the other of
us has been on beyond Skinwalker Ranch. We've been on
Skinwalker Ranch Ancient Aliens, and it's there. There, there's serious
(24:25):
and there's just so many different TV shows. I always
joke with Stan and Michelle and tell them that I'm
going to live wherever and reruns. Yeah, I mean get
old and wrinkled and tribbled up, but you'll still see
me in my prime. Anyway. Michelle, Uh, why don't you
(24:47):
tell us? I don't know if you have any stories
for us.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, it's interesting, John, thank you. Uh, yeah, you know,
like yourselves. I didn't ask to I was and really
wanting to be in this space to be honest. And
you know, as time goes on, you find yourself in
situations and different parts of your life. And so when
(25:13):
I was asked to go out to the Uenta base
and to assist in Brandon Fugel's ranch, I assisted in
that and getting acquainted with the Native American community. They
looked at me and Jim as the Jehovah witness of
that area because we worked so well together. And what
(25:35):
happened was we were finding stories of people who had
lived in the uent To base and you know, either
all their life or they've had experiences and they didn't
know how to share their experiences. They and people would
treat them as though that they they didn't have these experience,
They thought that they were crazy.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
But I have.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Done over four hundred interviews of the un To base
of individuals and their stories, and it's been very fascinating
to me because I went there with a critical eye
and I thought, oh, this stuff isn't true. One of
the individuals I got to know was a gentleman. He's
(26:17):
now passed on as Junior Hicks. And Junior Hicks wrote
a book with doctor Salisbury, and it was really interesting
to get to know him. He was in his nineties
when we got acquainted, but to listen to his stories
and his interactions with the Native American community and also
(26:38):
the community at large. He taught at the schools, he
was a master elect Electrician technician, and he was just
he was so involved in the experiences from early on.
And he actually met with Edgard Mitchell, the astronaut at
(26:59):
big Ol' was compound there in Las Vegas, Nevada, and
it was really interesting to hear his stories, and so
as things began to form, you know, I was just
listening and thinking, Okay, these are really interesting stories. But
what it got really interesting is when I started to
(27:20):
have my own experiences up there and you went to Basin.
So after you know, time after time after time, I
was seeing things I was visited. There's a lot of experience,
you know, in stories that I have had had to
myself and asked a lot of questions, you know, And
(27:41):
you had mentioned moufon Whizzlry, you know, where people go
and they report what their experiences were. But that was paper,
that was you know, forms they had to fill out,
and so I didn't want to do that. I was
a little apprehensive to talk. And there's another show up there,
Duayne Hollinger's you know show, Blink Frog Ranch The Mystery
(28:07):
of Blank Frog Ranch, and then Brandon's is a Secret
of Skinwalker Ranch. I think I turned that around earlier
and had worked with both individuals up and you went
to base not because of their show. It was because
I wanted to know what this phenomena was all about.
(28:28):
So I had partner up with a gentleman by the
name of Jim Sigala who was on the first season
of skin Walker. As you mentioned, you guys were on
some of their episodes and we did some electromagnetic field
testing and experiences out there. But what we correlated in
the end it was it was connected to the individual
(28:49):
having the experiences that this phenomena would show up. And
that's a little bit more scientific based. But what we
found out is when an individual had experience is there
would be a reaction, a cause and effect in their
lives that it would occur.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
So we have.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
This three or four year study that we've done around
the experiential experiences and of individuals in the Uenta base,
and what we were finding is that the Native Americans
seem to have a lot more experiences than say, the
community of individuals who lived there were who were non native.
(29:31):
And it was fascinating to me because I was also
having these experiences at an experiential rate, and I didn't
know what to think about what I was experiencing, and
so I would ask a lot of questions.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
I would do a lot of field testing.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I would go and have these extraordinary experiences, and I,
you know, would go and speak about it. But there
was ridicule that was involved. And you guys like you
were talking about how you went your field office as
field officers or law enforcement officers. You were asked to
(30:10):
handle these cases because the navel nation and the individuals
who live on that are you know, our people look
at this phenomena as though it is a part of
the traditions.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
Of our lives. And where I.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Was on the reservation, they they did too. But the
interesting thing is they didn't like to talk about it
because they felt like it would be able to conjure
up some of these things. And to your point, Jonathan
and stand the skin walker lore, you don't like talking
about it. We don't like sharing that because we feel
(30:47):
like these are part of our traditions and our way
of life to respect our own traditions on the reservation.
But it's really interesting up there, and the you went
to Basin as you guys have been up there and
have felt the anomalies that are up there.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
And then when I met.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
John and we had dinner and Jim introduced us, and
I just found it very intriguing that this phenomena is
everywhere worldwide and we're now out there investigating that as
a team.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
So that's kind of a little bit about me.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Well, thank you. We actually have areas on the Navo
Reservation that would rival skin Walker Ranch probably as far
as far as the phenomenon goes, and we just don't
advertise it. We don't talk about it because a lot
(31:49):
of the natives up here are traditional and so in
a traditional sense, you don't talk about those things. You
don't draw attention to it, because to draw attention is
to have it manifest even more, and they don't want that.
(32:11):
And we've asked them over and over, why don't you
report this to Moufan and let them do an investigation,
And they tell us, well, if we tell somebody like that,
they'll bring a whole bunch of people up here. They'll
all stand around sing kumbaya, and those sky gods will
(32:36):
not come here anymore. And the Navo, along with a
lot of other tribes, have a tradition that they were
visited in the past by sky beings or holy people
who came to this land and told them, this is
(32:58):
what you need to do. This is how you need
to live. These are your your moral values. You don't
kill people, you don't steal, you don't know, just all
these these things that dos and don't about how to
live your life. And I often tell people that some
(33:20):
of the ceremonies that they have, uh, there's always a
clown involved at the end of the line. The Apache, Uh,
the Paches have them, and and uh the Navos have them,
and the clown represents the five fingered people because the
clown doesn't listen and he does what he wants to do,
(33:43):
and usually the opposite of what he's taught. And so,
you know, for for our audience out there, it's it's
it's important to realize that there's a connection there too, uh,
sky beings or whole people, and that this is why
(34:05):
we do this kind of work, and we have to
be respectful of those things.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Well, you know, it's interesting, Jonathan, on previous shows you
spoke about the cavalry, how they came in and took
away the ghost dance and standing. You both have discussed
this on our previous shows, how that was taken away,
And I think sometimes our nations don't want to talk
about it because we hold them sacred because they were
taken at one time away from us. In our tribes
(34:35):
and everything, and like with my Pawnee tribe, we are
too called the sky people, and we have buffalo skins,
you know, because we were told that we are the
sky people, and we set up our communities. It was
a result of these buffalo skins that showed where we planted,
(34:57):
our fields, where we lived, the night stars that we
had looked upon as our guides and our gods, and
so you know, we're not nothing new to us. This
is a respect things, and we like to tell our
audience it's a respect thing. Is something that we have
lived with for millennia, and when something is taken away,
(35:22):
we don't want to talk about it. We don't want
to be ridiculed, we don't want to be shamed, and
so that still happens today with people who have these
extraordinary experiences with the phenomena.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Stan, could you tell us in your words, what happened
to you when you were tasked with investigating a haunting
case at an office building.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Sure, so, these calls would come into the department and
to the chief, and he would reach out to John
and I to assign these cases. Sometimes when we were
in the field, people would approach us with their own experiences,
(36:14):
and likewise it had been mentioned.
Speaker 5 (36:16):
Earlier and brought up by Michelle.
Speaker 4 (36:22):
You know, a lot of these experiences aren't always pleasant
a lot of times, and what John and I found
was that these individuals were on some level traumatized by
the experience, whether it was a teenage child that was
experiencing and had witnessed a bigfoot, or whether it was
(36:45):
an elderly person having an encounter with these things. A
lot of times, when we first experienced these kind of things,
a lot of times it's out of the blue. We're
going about our lives doing the regular things that we're
familiar with, and then all of a sudden, you have
this experience. So Chief reached out to me and he
(37:09):
said that there was a director with one of the
other departments under Natural Resources. They had staff that were
experiencing all kinds of different, strange, otherworldly activity within their
office space to the point that it was interrupting the workplace.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
So I began going and.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Set up an investigation of that particular building. Chief afforded
me and John to be able to reach out to
other experts in the paranormal field, even external of our
even our department. So I put together a team and
we went in on two days conducting an investigation. We
(38:03):
did interviews of all the staff there, and one lady
was getting this really what most people with termers for
harassing phone calls, just call after call after call coming
into her workstation. And when I first met with her,
(38:24):
I said, well, you know you're gonna have to You're
gonna have to start.
Speaker 5 (38:29):
Documenting these calls coming in.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
And she ended up passing a spiral notebook to me
the page after page after page.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
Of calls that had come in.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
And she had actually reached out to the phone company
and CI Criminal Investigation with nomination to try to get
some assistance in finding out who was doing this, who
was wherever the calls originating, and even the phone company
(39:04):
could not determine where the calls were coming.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
In from, and so it was very disturbing.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
One of the phenomena and I experience going into that
investigation was what was termed an a port.
Speaker 5 (39:20):
So back in the spirit spiritualist movement of.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
The eighteen eighties and further on into the nineteen hundreds,
they come up with this word a port, which meant
it was describing when you'd take a physical object that
would appear out of nothingness, or sometimes objects would disappear
(39:45):
and and but there is some type of movement of
a physical object. In this case, in the haunting case,
it was coins. There would be us us coin, Nichols, pennies, dimes,
and corners that would fall.
Speaker 5 (40:07):
Out of thin air, fall out.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Of nuttiness, you know, right right here in front of us.
It would fall on the floor or sometimes they would
come flying across the room and hit us.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
And so.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
For those two days investigation there was a total sixty
six coins that appeared or but we we documented those coins,
photographed them. In criminal investigation, when you have evidence that
needs to be logged, you'll one of the techniques is
(40:43):
to measure out from a corner of a room to
the object. From one corner and then from another corner
because those are fixed points of reference, so you'd be
able to take those measures and determine an exact location.
We used GPS too at that time. We began using
GPS for different things, but totally sixty six coins. The
(41:06):
coins would behave like any other coin that you would
pull out of your pocket and flip in the air.
They'd hit and they would make a big arc and
spiral in and fall over.
Speaker 5 (41:17):
Out of all the sixty six.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Coins, they all landed heads up. And for most people,
you know, going through school and science and learning, when
you study statistics and probability, you know that that won't happen.
They won't always land heads up or tails up.
Speaker 5 (41:41):
It can't.
Speaker 4 (41:42):
It'll be generally half and half half heads half tails,
depending on how many times you flip it up.
Speaker 5 (41:50):
But over the years we had.
Speaker 4 (41:52):
Analyzed the coins the years, there was higher frequency with
these weak penny peenis several several seven or eight or
so within that sixty six which was a high high rate.
But in the end I came up with just a
(42:15):
general understanding that this was spirit. It was communicating with
me because there was an attachment for him to me
that still exists to this very day, and and but
it was spirit letting me know, heads up, I'm present,
I'm in that space in and around you, and natives,
(42:36):
you know, have this understanding. Times animals communicate, there's a
spirit communication through animals. Sometimes these are omens or warnings
or things.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
To be cautious of, to be alert.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Maybe there's something dangerous coming up and it'll try to
warn us.
Speaker 5 (42:59):
But that's how I look at this stuff.
Speaker 4 (43:02):
I've talked to medicine man and shaman about the phenomenon
that it's never been anything that had any type of
negative energy associated with it. So so it happens, it
happens in my home. And the last one I think
in my home was on New Year's Day, I believe,
(43:23):
and I think I've had a couple more since then
when I've been out.
Speaker 5 (43:27):
But it's very.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Unique, and that case was very intense, a lot of
different types of phenomenon, things moving chairs flying across the room,
things exploding, voices captured on audio, you know, seeing seeing
(43:49):
seeing shadows, stuff you know within that building. Very unique case,
very eye opening, definitely.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Hey, Jonathan, why don't you share what happened like three
weeks ago with our show with all three of us.
As we were experiencing what happened. We wish, we wish
we caught some of it on on camera, but we
had wish what happened afterwards.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
Would you like to share that, John.
Speaker 5 (44:14):
Yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
We were we wrapped up our show and we were
all getting.
Speaker 5 (44:25):
Done.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
It wasn't recording anymore, and so we were just kind
of kidd seen with each other and talking about the show,
and Michelle heard something behind her, U this this bang,
you know, and she was She looked behind her and
(44:49):
she was startled, to say the least. And I started
looking for terrestrial explanations right away, and I said, was
anything stacked up against the wall behind you that fell over?
And she says, no, something smacked into the wall. And
(45:09):
so we went from there and after a little bit,
she looked around and she found a square aluminum can
on the floor that was a small one, you know,
and it was full of bomb, you know, so it
(45:31):
had some weight to it. And then she found where
it had struck the wall. And so she's facing us,
she's facing the camera, and this thing hits behind her
on the wall and you could actually see a dent
in the dry wall and she took the can and
(45:53):
matched up the corner to where the impact was and
we were just sitting there going wow. You know, of
all times we didn't we didn't have the recording running,
and a paranormal event happens right with us there. So
(46:16):
things tend to happen all the time. Sometimes we're aware
of it, sometimes we find out about it later. And
one of the things that we do as paranormal rangers
is we would probably not be very entertaining on TV
(46:36):
because we wouldn't be running around screaming and in our
hands up in the air. You won't see that. With us,
We're going to be pretty you know, down to earth,
look at it and try to find an explanation. Sometimes
(46:57):
there are terrestrial explanations for for what you're seeing. And
we've actually Stan investigated one case where where this guy
saw lights coming up from the horizon every evening about
the same time, and he was saying, they're UFOs and
(47:18):
they're blinking off and on and and Stan went out
there and took all his uh. We we used to
call it stand Inspector dadget because he carries if you
need a battery, if you need a pen, if you
need any kind of thing. He probably has it in
(47:38):
his in his backpack, and so we rely on him
rather extensively when when we forget things. And he went
out there and he took a compass reading and then
waited for this phenomenon to happen. And pretty soon, sure enough,
(47:59):
the lights came up and they were blinking and you know,
off and on, and the guy was getting really excited,
you know, hey, there it is. There it is. And
Stan took the compass reading in the asthma and correlated
it with a quad sheet and there was a community
(48:22):
just over the hill from that location, and what they
were seeing was the lights of that community during a
temperature inversion. And it gives you a mirage, just like
when you're at the ocean and you see a ship
that looks like it's floating in the air. So it's
(48:46):
just a warm air and cold air meeting and it
creates a mirage in the air. And so that's what
they were seeing. And Stan told them this is a
mirage what you're seeing, and believe it or not. The
guy says, oh, no, those are aliens. They're coming, and
(49:07):
he just wouldn't believe Stans explanation for that situation, and
so Stan just closed out the case and says, Okay,
we found out what it was. So yeah, yeah, one
of the things we do is we never respond with fear,
(49:28):
because to respond with fear is to give whatever that
that thing is, to give it your energy and allow
it to manifest even more. And so we don't like
to give it any additional energy.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
You know, John, you know you talked about that incident
half and off camera, but what was going on on
camera that exact same show and Stan did a shout
out to Darth Vader.
Speaker 3 (49:57):
Do you remember that you had?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
We had a guy coming on and he sounded like
he was wearing a mask like Darth Vader breathing technique,
and Stan and I we were like, do you have
your like, is your microphone working? We have somebody, but
there was nobody in on the broadcast that was making
that sort of sound because we were all talking.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
And we were all muting our microphones too.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, because we were told to mute. And
it was really interesting to me that sometimes these phenomena
will show up during the show. Just the audience don't
freak out. It was really fun. It was a fun
audience that day. Because they were they could hear it too,
and that was what was so fascinating about that show
(50:47):
is our audience was responding in our comments section.
Speaker 3 (50:51):
So those kind of things will happen.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
It will happen on this show, and I'm excited for
that for them to understand this phenomena. As we have experiences,
they get the experience with us.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
So and we're getting ready to close down here, I
think our time is getting close, So Stan, do you
have any final thoughts.
Speaker 4 (51:21):
Well, I would like to say that this particular episode
is just the introduction of our podcasts. It doesn't really
get into the meat and potatoes of what the three
of us have done in the past with these productions
(51:43):
and podcasts, and some of them get really really exciting,
just like Michelle and John had conveyed, where we actually
got some interaction by some type of energy or entity
and uh and uh so, it's it is really exciting,
(52:04):
and especially as we move forward and we get some
interaction with our audience, we'll get some really unique questions
and a different perspective a lot of times from kind
of out of the blue, and it really makes a
fun a fun show.
Speaker 5 (52:24):
And uh So.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
I'm really looking forward to sharing you know, this podcast
with everyone. I just really quick, uh, I do have
a book out.
Speaker 5 (52:37):
It's entitled The Paranormal Ranger.
Speaker 4 (52:41):
It is uh a Navo investigator search for the Unexplained.
Speaker 5 (52:46):
You can find this anywhere anywhere you.
Speaker 4 (52:49):
Can buy books Harper, Harper Collins or or Barnes and Noble.
And so I'm really excited that that everyone has is
really interested in be you know, putting this book out there,
because I think it does explain a lot of this phenomenon.
I also would like people to if you're really interested
(53:10):
in the work you know that we've.
Speaker 5 (53:12):
Done in the past, you can go on to Netflix.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
As John said earlier, Netflix Unsolved Mysterys Season three, Episode five,
and you'll get a taste of the stuff we're going
to be talking about.
Speaker 5 (53:28):
Thank you, guys.
Speaker 3 (53:30):
Welcome. Hey, just a shout out.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
I'm going to be at the UFO con at twenty
twenty five. Make contact on the Bay that's in the
Crown Plaza at Berlin Game, California. This is the UFO
conference where Woo Woo meets Wow. So y'all go to
the website if you're in the Bay area, come out
April fourth, fifth, and six and thank you everybody for
(53:56):
being and following us to this new platform with KGr.
And we want to say thank you to Kjerra for
taking us on
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