July 3, 2025 • 67 mins
It’s hard to know the truth when you KNOW someone is lying. That’s the situation that the documentarians, and the audience, are in when it comes to Cocaine Air. No one seems to know anything about the over 1,500 pounds of cocaine loaded onto a private jet bound for France from the Dominican Republic. We laugh a LOT about a serious subject…
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back to Killer Fun, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christie and
I'm Jackie. And today today we are talking about cocaine air. No,
not cocaine bear and not con Air and not Conair,
Cocaine air, cocaine in.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The sky, in the sky, It's right.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, facts can be difficult to determine if someone's lying.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
M I mean, that's a fair assessment. But I think
we do it a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I mean, yes, but if people are well coordinated enough
to lie in unison, Yeah, then it can be difficult
to determine.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It can be harder. It can absolutely be harder.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
But I would say as far as investigative skills and
the ability to fact check, it's fair create an argument
kind of like do better.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, I don't really have a cast to talk about
for this episode because it's just like the people involved.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's the people involved.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
And a lot of them have either limited online presence
or it's scrubbed. You can tell they used to and
they don't. More like yeah, you don't say, yeah, you
don't say. Olivier Bukara is the creator of this show,
(01:34):
and he is also the head of editorial content for
Condeinace in France. Okay, so like a big deal, like
a legitimate journalist.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, you don't see that as often, rightes Right.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And he's got other documentaries that are on Netflix. He's
got another one called Lords of Scam from twenty twenty
one and The Masked Scammer from twenty twenty two, so
they're both originally in French but dubbed in English. Yeah.
And then one of the director's, Maxim Bonnet, has a
Netflix documentary called The Billionaire, The Butler and the Boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Oh. I think it's that popped up as something like
a suggestion.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Probably because if you're watching this, like, oh a same director. Yep, yeah, exactly,
also in French originally but now yeah dubbed. Yeah, they're like,
if you like that, maybe you will also like.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
This, right, yeah, how do we How do we feel
about the dub? It was okay, Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's not like amazing, I get it. Probably because it's
a documentary. Maybe they're they're not maybe necessarily pulling the
most expensive voiceover talent, They're not spending quite as much
time to try and make the voice fit the person
(03:02):
quite as much. Yeah, I just and they don't have
like a script for people to go by as much.
I think there's maybe less directing happening with the voiceover
on this. It was not quite as good. But I
also kind of knew that going in that it was
going to be overdubbed.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, so, I you know, this is a documentary. I'm
not a narrative right right. I feel like they could
have this is me getting picky. Look, I'm getting picky.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I feel like they could have gotten away with just
simple translation. Oh, like having an actual translator on screen,
asked the question like they do in a news story
as the news like ask the person.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Right where they like, and they give them a couple
of seconds where you hear them speaking in their native language,
yes case French, and then they have like a and.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Then they cut into it.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Just a translator who's not trying to emote, because I
feel like that where they lost me a few times
was they're emoting and I.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Was like, y'all stop, just stop. It was like middle
school level. And I feel bad because but also if
you're cast in that role, that must be hard.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
If if you're wanting an overdub of a performance, and
yet really it's just supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
A translation, right, And also you have people on the screen,
not all of which can be telling the truth, right,
So now you're trying to mimic somebody else's natural way
of speaking while they're lying, which is different than acting.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, it's different than acting.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
But I think like professional translators who are able to
just translate appropriately, and then it just gives is it
that more of an objective response?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Sure? Yeah, it gives it a feels more like a
news story. Yeah, where you can hear their French underneath
a little bit and get how they're saying it. Yes,
but then also get an audio translation of.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It, right, Because then at some points I felt leading,
but then you're like, okay, what wait are these No,
those are not actors what I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It felt kind of weird with the I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's that's fair.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It was interesting, but and then the whole like catch
me if you can style you know what, go for it, right,
But I don't think it landed as well.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
As they thought it was.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I'm being so critical of this show, Okay, I just
don't I thought it was a little much.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That's fair. So we were talking before we hit record. Yeah,
we were like, really, just watch episode two.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Watch episode two because.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Episode two has a little twist that I did not
see coming, and that part was really fun.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It was fun, and they do a good enough recap
of what happened in episode one, uh huh, and then
you kind of get enough of an idea maybe the
last five minutes of the last episode, just to yeah,
find out what happened, right, you are right if you
want to, if you want to know, that would be like,
(06:31):
but we're going to talk about all of episode one.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We're gonna talk about EPs one because that's what we
do here.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, but I'm but if but if you're looking for
our recommendation, if you have not watched it yet and
you think, oh, well, some of this sounds interesting, just
go watch episode two because that's the fun one.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It is the fun one.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Then the catch me, if you can style, fits a
lot better. Yeah, and there's a lot more to it.
So it feels like the urgency they're building is not
for you know, in vain.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. All right,
So shall I recap by all means? Okay? Four frenchmen
were on a private plane about to leave the Dominican
Republic when the plane was raided by the Dominican National
Drug Council. About seven hundred kilos of cocaine were on board.
(07:24):
The two primary pilots for the flight, Bruno Udos and
Pascal Foraret, as well as a backup pilot Alan Castani
and soul passenger Nicolas Pisa Pion, all claim to know
little about the luggage and absolutely nothing about the drugs
they're in. Neither the Dominican authorities nor a French examining magistrate,
(07:50):
Christine Saline Rulan by this, but all the men maintain
their innocence. The men are ordered into detention for a year,
and it takes two years and four months for the
case to go to trial. And it's difficult to know
what to believe, especially when there is a title card
(08:12):
that states the facts in this documentary have been meticulously verified. However,
it's possible that some people may not be telling the
whole truth. I'm like, well, you can't verify some things.
You have to assume that what people are telling you
is the truth, and if they're lying to you, there
might not be a way to verify that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
There's not always. There's not always, but yeah, there's not always.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
There's not always. So Episode one ends just before the
verdicte is announced at their trial, so you see all
of it up to that point. My thoughts it's like,
I'm really glad somebody said it that somebody's lying. I mean, yeah,
(09:00):
I guess because somebody has to be lying.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Somebody's lying.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Somebody's lying. I don't know exactly who it is, of course,
somebody's lying.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, And the investigation was okay.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
No, yeah, I thought a helicopter dash cam seemed pretty
fancy for twenty thirteen. I'm like, oh cool, and then
you find out later, oh, this is the first time
they've ever filmed to a drug raid like this. Yeah,
you know, as done by the Drug Council. I'm like, interesting, okay,
(09:40):
why is the cocaine so dirty?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
It was gross, right, it was really really.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Like was looking at it and I'm like, is it
dirty on the outside. It's got to be the outside,
I don't know. They showed like closer up images of
some of it, and it looked like dirty on the inside.
I was like, cocaine's expensive, yeah, like it should be clean.
Come on.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, No, it was weird because you expected it to be.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I mean, I know, all I know is what I've
ever seen on TV on TV. But you know what
else I've seen on TV is like videos and pictures
from DEA raids, Yes, exactly, and all of that cocaine
is like wrapped and really carefully, very very clean.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It's crystal yane, ha ha, I see what I did there.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
But no, it's it was odd because a lot of
I mean some of it was like black bricks almost, yeah,
and it was like, what is happening with that?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I don't know, It's suspicious, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Pascal says that he thought it would be cleared up
quickly and that it was a quote unquote obvious misunderstanding. Like,
was that obvious misunderstanding that you had assumed that the
authorities had already been paid off? That was my suspicion immediately.
(11:01):
And then they've apprehended these people, they're going to their
hearing and they have Bruno and Pascal handcuffed to one another.
I mean, I was like, okay, obviously they're in this together.
Might not make it easier for them to escape together?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I mean, like I said, the investigation and by that
I mean the whole situation was Okay, I wouldn't say
that we were.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Watching brilliance unfold, you know what I mean. I don't.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I wouldn't have them teach a class on investigation or
crime scenes or anything. Probably not even just you know, logic. Really,
they're even their their logic was a little like, oh gosh,
are you really going to screw up an investigation that
(11:55):
has this much evidence and you're gonna find only the coke?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
They found no other thing. No, no, there.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Was not what not nothing, no things at all. Well,
that brings me to the my next point. Somebody knew
about this cocaine. Somebody knew about it so like heavy,
it was heavy. Somebody put it on the plane. There
wasn't enough room in the cargo hold at all, right,
(12:26):
they had to put it inside. I'm like, okay, so
if you're the pilot, let's give them the benefit of
the doubt that they don't know. Okay, I'm like, did
the business aviation company you work for not like you
very much? I mean seriously, because if you don't know
that this is a possibility, they don't like you, right, right,
(12:47):
because also they're not sharing the profits with you, they're
not making it worth your while. Oh, and they don't
like you. They're willing to sacrifice you.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, like it was a Oh, there's just so much
about the whole situation that is really weird.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I mean, it's weird in a lot of ways. It's
just Nicholas the passenger, uh doesn't want to mix up
his lies. I laughed out loud at this part.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I mean right, like he was like, I don't remember
what I said.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, I don't remember what I said before when they
asked him about the suitcases. Where all those suitcases yours?
And he goes, I don't remember what I said before.
I don't want to say. I'm like, that is the
most incriminating thing you could possibly say.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean, yeah, why would he even utter that? Well,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm like, maybe the guy in episode two is right.
Maybe that guy's not very smart.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Guy.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Episode two absolutely was right about a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, he was absolutely right about whole their.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Little chicken code names.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Uh huh. Yeah, that was weird.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And he was like, that's dumb. I'm not calling him that. Yep,
it is dumb. Oh, it's very funny.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yep, Alan Aflu owns the plane, and he's an eyewear manufacturer,
and I'm like, all the better to see the cocaine
with me.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Pretty Oh not that not that shipment though.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
No, not that one. They did say at one point
that a passenger on a private plane having six suitcases
wasn't unusual. And I couldn't decide if I'm obscenely rich,
I'm taking a private plane, do I want to take everything?
Or do I want to take nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I mean right, all I could think was, okay, it's
a bit of a trope. But you do see on
on you know, TV movie.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Scripts or whatever, that they take a lot of luggage
with them. Yeah, right, But also if you're on a
private plane, you could be going and staying for months somewhere.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Right, right, that might be different.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well, and see, like if I we're going to a
private island, to say, I'd probably take a lot of stuff.
If I'm going to France, maybe less maybe less, right,
Like I want a toothpaste and like, you know, my
multi vitamin and yeah, I don't know my undies that
(15:20):
I know fit right, you know everything else just buy
it in France.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, yeah, or or you might have a place there, yeah, right,
stock to with stuff, yeah, back and forth.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But I don't know either. I couldn't decide. I'm like,
it would be it would be one or the other.
It wouldn't be any of this, like I have, you know,
a regular bag and a carry on bag like I
would normally doing commercial air travel, right, it wouldn't be that.
It would either be six pieces of luggage or like
(15:53):
some he said, somebody else the plastic bag, right, right, yeah,
like one or the other.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, No, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It would be yeah, one or the other. Yeah. So
there was a lawyer for the two main pilots, and
he claimed he believed in their innocence, which I'm like, oh,
that's nice. It's it's not required for your defense attorney
to believe in your innocence, but it is nice. But
he did suggest that there was suspicions that the drug
(16:24):
counsel was corrupt in some way, and I'm like, this
is the least shocking thing in this whole documentary so far,
the idea that they might be making it up and
that they're filming this one first because they're like, this
is going to be a good one because we set
it up to me. Yeah, good ones, not shocking at all,
(16:48):
not at all. That said, also, somebody has to be
the first true, right, They're not going to bust somebody
that they don't think is doing something illegal, So chances
are good the first one they.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Film was probably legit. Well I'm not.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Saying it's probably legit. I'm saying that no matter which
one was the first one they filmed, they're probably going
to catch somebody doing something wrong in some way because
they're not going to raid something that they don't have
a pretty decent suspicion that something illegal is going on. Yeah,
(17:27):
despite the fact that.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
They likely the facilitated it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
It's possible.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
But also like, where's the rest of their evidence? Come on? Yeah,
come on, Yes, and they're burning the drugs I know.
I was like that smoke's got to be pretty dangerous.
I mean I would, yeah, I thought, what is in
that smoke that is just evaporate?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I mean the guy that was Escobar's chemist, Bars Heisenberg,
and he had a hat which was really great, but
he talks about what was in it, and I thought,
I do think though, if you set fire to that, it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Would kind of dissipate pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Gone, right, So maybe it wouldn't be enough to carry
to people.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
But what they've also well, I'm thinking that people like
in the immediate vicinity not even necessarily Okay, yeah, it
woul dissipate pretty quickly, but they're not that far away
from it. And also they don't only burn cocaine.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Right, they don't only burn cooked but in like that place,
that one is probably it's a very quick fireball and
it's gone.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
They were poor gasoline all.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Of that, and they were they were pretty far back.
So I'm just I guess my thought is the vapor
probably is.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Probably not that big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
He doesn't have properties anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Okay. I was like, wow, okay, so we're just gonna
like burn it right out there in the middle.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Look, yeah, I mean because all it I mean basically
it is gasoline in powder form, I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
In a way. Yeah, so that's fair.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I don't know, but the other things might cause
a whole wide area to have a contact.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, maybe that's part of the appeal.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So I don't have any resources, I mean, I don't
don't smuggle drugs.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Don't smuggle drugs.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
If you're gonna smuggle drugs, be better at it. Yes,
make sure the right people are paid off or better yet,
just don't do it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Just don't do it. But also pick a better chemist. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
There, So here's how it works. Christy erects her search history.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Hey, an essay.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
We promise it's nothing more nefarious than a podcast to
find out what's true some of the psychological motivations behind
the character's actions and real life applications that relate to
our topic. I have no idea what Christy decided to
look up could be the same thing that captured my
curiosity or something I never thought of.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Is it true? Yes, I mean purportedly, unless someone is lying,
which someone is.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I mean someone is.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
I felt like I felt like I had two very
differing mindsets. One part of me was very like, this
is an investigation into a crime. Yes, it's an interesting crime.
There are unique factors, but it's a crime and it's
investigation and that's it. The other side of me went
full on conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I mean, and I think the truth of it lies
somewhere in between. Maybe somewhere because I don't necessarily think
that anybody is fully guilty or anybody is fully innocent.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Definitely on the plane I feel like there's a lot
there's a lot of whatever is very compartmentalized, a lot
of like wink winks, but we don't really know what's
happening and we're not gonna get involved, so you know
that kind of thing. Or this was a whole, this
was a cover. This is part of their cover. They're undercover.
(21:17):
Like I went full on conspiracy. These guys, they just
up their own street cred with this whole thing. Like
there is something much bigger going on, because how to
two people who are pilots, who were nuclear certified, oh,
become a private jet pilots for that kind of private
(21:41):
jet service?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
There are better ones out there, and like why would
you want to just go have your own plane, retire
and go fly for fun? Why would you? You wouldn't
There is something going on here. It's deeper. I will
wait for the movie.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yes, I felt like because I feel like the movie
could be really fun.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Big could be really fun.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Especially when you like stretch and take some liberties here
and there.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yes, like cocaine bear. I mean like really that'd be hilarious. Yes,
I could totally see I could totally see a whole
like satire version, you know, or a whole dramatized version, and.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I mean, like I think of it as like like
an Ocean's eleven type thing. Yeah, yeah, that like that
could be really fun, Like it's kind of exciting, and
then then you have a whole like prison scene and
then they're you know, the twist and the metal ones.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
There's so much you could do here, uh huh, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
It would be fun. I do kind of appreciate that
the filmmakers don't really take a stand. They they make
some suggestions, but they leave it open even at the end.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Okay, So they're flying a Falcon fifty and I was like,
how old would that plane be?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I don't it was not new.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It was not It was not new, especially since the
last time they made a Falcon fifty was in two
thousand and eight. That was the when the last one
was delivered, so it was probably actually made in two
thousand and seven, so that was years before these events
took place, and it did not look even that new.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It did not.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
They the first Falcon fifty came into service in nineteen
seventy nine. They revamped it in nineteen ninety six, and
then basically stopped making that actual one. They changed it
enough for it to have a new name after that
(23:51):
after two thousand and eight. In the eighties they ranged
somewhere between eight hundred and seventy thousand and one point
six million dollars in cost. The newer versions were between
three and four million.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean not.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Inexpensive, but I mean not a bad plane but by
any stretch. But you know, it's called a super mid
size long range business jet.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes, a business jet.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It was definitely a business it's.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
A business jet, and and it was I mean definitely
had that long range, which was nice. But I cannot
even imagine that this would be any fun after flying
the jets they flew right right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yes, because they were flying nuclear equipped jets. They were
like super jets, like fighter pilots, like.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Bombers, and they did all the things like how this
is boring, this is boring. Get a lyric jet or something,
I don't know, something fun. This is not who I
don't know, seems that's my hot, this is my this
is my sticking point though time through.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
A perfectly fine jet. It's just not a very exciting jet.
It's for people who are who are used to a
more exciting ride.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Right, Like, like if I like was a NASCAR driver, right,
or you know racing, I would not retire to my
prius right and then drive uber with it, right, That's
not what I would do.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's but people do make choices. That's that's fair, okay.
So the news reports varied. Most of them said seven
hundred kilos. Yes, most of them did cocaine. Some of
them said six hundred and eighty kilos. Is there a
big difference in price between six hundred and eighty kilos
(25:53):
and seven hundred kilos.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna go there's a pretty it would be
too rich for my blood.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I mean that difference, I don't.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Know, okay. So I looked up what the prices cocaine
were in France in twenty thirteen. Actually found this data.
I was so proud of myself. So street value retail
price of cocaine in France in twenty thirteen was eighty
(26:22):
seven US dollars per gram. Wow. So that means it
was fifty nine million dollars worth of cocaine if it
was six hundred and eighty kilos, or almost sixty one
million dollars if it was seven hundred kilos. That's one
(26:46):
point seven million dollars difference. That's wild. That's a lot
of money, mean so much. I mean even if you
look at the wholesale prices which were also available, by
the way, Wow, twenty seven million US dollars or twenty
eight million US dollars, it was the difference of about
eight hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
But even that is that's a lot of money, a
lot of money, so much. It's so Which was it?
Was it six hundred and eighty Did they just round
up to make it seven hundred kilos? Did they try
and make it easy or is their discrepancies.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
You're right, though, reporters do tend to round They say
things like all those steven hundred and they say them
almost so fast, yeah, or something, just to kind of
give it a round number because people will remember that easy,
more easily.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean, twenty kilos of cocaine is a lot. That's
a lot. You're talking about more than forty pounds of.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Right, Okay, See that was my what is a I
gotta look at the weight limit of the stinking airplane?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Because that was the other thing is I was like,
what in the world and weight limit like what in
the that is a.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Lot freaking I mean commercial jets are different, right, I
get it.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
But even on a commercial jet, the weight limits it's
built to hold, like what an average of one person
and having like two.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Bags, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
There were like what thirty six bags in the twenty
eight twenty eight I think it was twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
See, like that's a lot for a nine seater.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
It's like, okay, so maximum takeoff weight is yeah, thirty eight,
three hundred and twenty pounds.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
The jet is twenty thousand pounds.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So uh yeah, so it could carry luggage wise around
eighteen thousand pounds. So basically it could carry around if
I'm doing this, logically, it could carry around eight thousand kilos.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Oh, there were cargo seven hundred kilos, so okay, so
eight thousand okay, So okay, So it was below the.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
That means seven many three hundred pounds left that they
had four guys all.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Around that two hundred mark. Yeah, so two four six eight.
Now you have sixty five hundred pounds left for other
real luggage.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So they're they're okay, they're within it because the seven
hundred pounds is just the weight of the of the
cocaine right now, you luggage weight, right, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
They were pushing the edge of they were.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Pushing it because that's max weight for takeoff.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Huh. Okay, they were they were in it, but they
were in it. But wow, but not but close?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Interesting huh?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Interesting is right? So somebody knew exactly how much huh
they could put on that?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yes, yes, this see this is my logic.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
This is where I'm going with this is there is
something very unique about the choice.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Uh huh. Makes me think maybe it was closer to
six eighty than seven.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Maybe som okay, our musings, we should just hit fast
forward in there somewhere, just make it go fast and
get to.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
The Some of those will be in in the for sure. Elmajo,
the former chemist for Pablo Esque Bar The Magician, said
that the pilots should have been tipped off because that
much cocaine would have an odor.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And I'm like this guy, by the way, I love
this guy. He was so funny.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
He was really funny. I think you got to have
a sense of humor to to do this kind of
very stressful yeah, kind.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Of real life Heisenberg. Well you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, breaking, Well, you circle around through the breaking bad
world and then you get to where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Right. So, Zenia Health, which is a recovery center with
nine locations around the country, has some information. What does
cocaine look like? Well, pure cocaine looks like powdered sugar,
or talcum powder or flour, cornstarch, baby powder, any fine
(31:13):
white powder. What does it smell like? Pure cocaine is odorless?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Okay, okay, because I did think that was a little
weird like it should smell.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
But then well, I guess if we remember what it
looked like, it was not pure.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
No, it was definitely not And if you were to
taste it, it would be unpleasant and bitter. Okay, okay
on its own, But if you taste it or smell it,
you run the risk of ingesting it. So you want
to be more careful in those identification techniques. But Renaissance
(31:55):
Recovery had an article as well about what it smells
like that and again they say, in its purest form,
it's almost odorless, but it's rarely pure.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, it's rarely pure. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Additives such as baking soda, gasoline, ammonia can change the
smell of a drug. Those were all things that Mago mentioned.
But it also means that the scent of it is
going to change from batch batch because it depends on
what you use, and it depends on how much of
it you use. And now I'm guessing El Mago being
(32:32):
a quote unquote chemist, I don't know how trained he
was in his chemistry, but he probably was pretty specific
with his amounts, so to him, his cocaine probably had
a fairly uniform scent, which would be a strong, harsh,
(32:52):
unpleasant chemical odor. Yeah, a lot like cleaning products.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Well, And that was my only issue though, is that
they are like, you can't smell that. I'm like, have
you smelled jet fuel?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
If you're on a tarmac the jet fuel, how would
you even?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I mean, and you got to assume the plane's been cleaned.
We know that the that the flying attendant went to
put food on the plane. I don't know how stringent
their cleaning is. If there had been something gross on
the plane, you know, maybe maybe she used ammonia to
clean something.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right exactly, And I mean that mixed with jet a
and like, I mean, I don't know that you would
actually smell it, But I could see what the point
of it saying, like, yes, it does have an odor,
that much of it would have an odor elsewhere though,
right maybe maybe right, But yeah, it wasn't and it
was a lot of it, but most of it was
(33:50):
in the cargo hold.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, there was like six bags inside, which is still
a lot of cocaine, right, don't get me wrong, it's
a lot of okay in six bags, yes, but it
was near the back of the plane in the like
passenger area. If you're doing things in the cockpit, maybe not,
(34:13):
maybe not. And you know, it can have an odor
when it's being used, depending on the paraphernalia used to
ingest it. But that's not what was happening here. No,
it was wrapped in plastic and in luggage. Yeah, So
I was like, that doesn't hold water.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
It doesn't hold water.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Adding fentanyl to cocaine does change the smell a little bit,
but not enough for it to be a reliable identification.
So maybe just don't do drugs, caybe, just.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Don't smell drugs and don't do them and don't do
those things. And yeah, but definitely don't just go up
and sniff it.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah. No, the four men said that they found the
Dominican Spanish difficult to understand. Is it really that different?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Yeah, especially if you're French, Yes, and you're what you
know is Castilian, and then you come over to you know,
all of all of the Latin countries and all of
their different.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And Dominican Republic in particular is very very fast. It
has a kind of unique rhythm. They have slang and
idioms that are all their own that you might not understand.
They tend to drop consonants in their pronunciation, so because
it's so fast. So if what you're used to is
(35:36):
a more pronounced Spanish, then yeah, it might be difficult
for you to understand.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I can't help but think it kind of sounds like
it's like Jamaican, right, Like you know in Jamaica when
when you know the English has a particular and just
translate that then to Spanish.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, that's what I feel like to me.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
You think about like all the different kinds of just
within the United States States, like the different kind of
it's more accents than dialects. But you think about the
diversity of English in the United States, and then you
like go to like Ireland and the way they speak English.
(36:20):
We can barely understand it. I mean exactly, it's similar
in the difference, I think, oh yeah, for sure. Is
it lawful the way the four men were held in
the Dominican Republic.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
People there are different laws.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I think it's a little odd because I don't we
don't have that kind of system. However, if we did
not have a bail system, who knows what it might
look like.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
This is true, and so it doesn't seem that crazy.
And they were under house arrest after their conviction.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Which I thought that was a little weird because I
was like, well, that's part of the whole like kinkiness
of the aftermath of things.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
I think, as far as the Dominican Republic is concerned,
this was lawful because they can hold you without official
charges of any kind for forty eight hours, right, Okay,
you can be detained for up to three months or
longer for complex crimes while they investigate. And even if
(37:23):
you are released after the first forty eight hours, when
they have to release you, they can require you to
stay within the Dominican Republic for an extended period of time.
And yeah, complex cases can take years, which is exactly
what we saw here. So it's within the Dominican law.
(37:44):
And I guess the examining magistrate didn't seem to have
a lot of impetus to intervene because she didn't believe them. Yeah,
so yeah, uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You know, it's funny because that's.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Not all together different than ours, you know, as far
as like, you know, how long you can hold somebody
before you have to charge them, and then after you've
charged them, then we arraign you yes, and then there's
a decision about you know, remand or not or whatever
you know, and then you know, so it's not a
hard and we can say if even if we release people,
(38:25):
we can tell people you may not.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Leave right well, and if you if they're say, oh
well your bail is our bond depending on where you live,
what's what they call it. You know, if you can't
afford to put up the half a million dollars or
whatever or the percentage of the amount that's required to
(38:47):
keep to allow you to walk free, they can just
keep you in jail.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
They can they can detain you. So I mean, it's
not altogether different. But two years.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
For crime, it's not like a violent crime that seemed
a little strange.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
It did seems excessive. Excessive. Yeah, they claimed that the
third pilot on the plane was needed for a transatlantic flight.
Are more pilots needed for a translantic sight? Yes, that
is correct. Typically transatlantic flights last between six and fourteen hours,
depending on your origination and destination. This particular flight was
(39:30):
somewhere in the neighborhood of eight and a half to
nine hours. On a large commercial flight, you have to
have two regardless. Yeah, so a captain and a first
officer or co pilot. If it's longer than eight hours,
typically a third pilot is going to be required, and
(39:51):
more than that if they extend even longer. So you know,
if it's a fourteen hour flight, they might require four pilots. Depends.
It ranges a little bit between airlines. They have their
own stipulations, but basically, most regulatory authorities, according to simpleflying
(40:15):
dot com worldwide, limit pilots from actively flying the airplane
for more than eight hours in a twelve to fourteen
hour work shift. So if it's a fourteen hour flight,
you can't fly more than eight of those, so you
would definitely need a third pilot.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah, yeah, And then of course American law, we have
regulations about sleep, particularly like they have to sleep before they.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Can come back, right, yeah, so that can cause them.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Which is always a fun rabbit hole to fall down
on YouTube is to see like what the sleeping accommodations
are pilots on long haul flights because they're like hidden
but really nice but really yeah, really.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Nice as they should be, y, yes, please sleep exactly.
What's also funny is to know how often your delays
in your airports are actually about cruise meeting the limit, yeah,
and then having to yeah yeah, be refreshed and remember, yeah,
changed out and whatever.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Now that said they had Alan as another pilot. Yeah,
Alan didn't have the required qualification, yeah, to make a
transatlantic flight. He was on the plane as the pilot.
But so what are those requirements do you have any India?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I mean for them for that aircraft and France?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
I don't know, right, but you know, yeah, my guess
is that guy was a pilot enough that should they
need a meet probably.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah, they're like eight and a half hours, we can
do this.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
I mean it's a yeah, yeah, I mean straight it's
a more straightforward situation right there, exactly than other things.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
The pilot should have a passport, which makes sense. Oh yeah, okay,
and a pilot certification, but they should also be English
proficient endorsement because correct there, that's going to be your
general like most commonly spoken language.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
That's air traffic control, Yeah, is in English?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Right. You need to have a medical certificate and a
restricted Radio telephone operators permit, which I did not know.
So he was lacking one of those things. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Okay, well we don't know which one.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Oh, it did not say. And you know, since he's
in detention in well in house arrest and the Dominican Republic. Yeah,
as yet he's still there.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
His English wasn't great. No, he said a couple of things. Uh,
maybe that's what he's lacking.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Maybe. So Alan Aflow owns the plane, yes, and he
has a double degree as an optician and hearing aid
consultant and opened his first optical store in nineteen seventy
two and now has many franchises, mostly in Europe. But
(43:15):
he's the owner of the plane and then his his
eyewear business and hearing a business is called chinchin, which
is means cheers like chinchin, Yeah, like you do that
when you're clinking glasses. And then it took me a
minute to realize the sniff sniff, which was in the
(43:36):
first episode, was a joke, like somebody found out that
he owned the plane and they were like, oh yeah,
he's chinchin and sniff sniff o g. It was a joke,
and it took me a minute to get it.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, because it yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
A very dry sense of humor, y and it didn't
come And this is maybe where the voiceover didn't do
us any favors. Yes, I didn't get that it was
a joke at first. I'm like, why would they do that?
Why would they have an advertisement with sniff sniff and
have white stuff on the person's nose? What? What? I
didn't know it was a joke.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It was a joke.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
I mean, you understand, like they're making fun of him
for the drugs.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
But yes, okay, now, yeah, because we didn't have a
base of knowledge for the joke.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
To like, right exactly because chin chin not a thing here.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
No, that's not a thing here. No, but might be now,
who knows, at least at least in our households.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
That's right. Our confiscated substances burned every Thursday, and the
Dominican Republican don't know. So somebody mentions that reporters are
often invited to the Thursday burnings, so I looked it up.
So they do have a law in the Dominican Republic
(45:00):
that says that confiscated drugs must be destroyed after they
have been tested for their quality and degree of purity. Okay,
so they do want some testing done before they destroy them.
It's not in the law that it has to happen
on Thursdays, though. There are many YouTube videos and accounts
(45:26):
of reporters being invited to burnings on Thursdays, and the
YouTube videos always occur on a Thursday, so it may
depend on the quantity that they currently have needing to
be destroyed. They might not need to do it every Thursday.
They might not only do it on Thursdays if they
(45:47):
have too much, but Thursday generally seems to be.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Joug burning day. Yeah, okay, I mean whatever.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
All of the sources that we use to inform our
discussion here on Killer Fund Podcast can be found on
our social media. Join us on Facebook at Killer Fund Podcast,
exploring the intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find
us on Twitter at Killer Funpod. Or you can send
us an email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com and
(46:21):
I'd be happy to share a link to whatever information
you're looking for. We love to hear from you. You
might learn a little something too, all right, psychology break, yes, okay,
so you'll have to let me know if you have
other things that you'd like to talk about. Guess is
just why I came back. So the director of the
Dominican National Drug Council, General Rosato Mateo, basically said, every
(46:48):
accusation is a confession.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, Because you know, you point one finger and four
fingers point back at you, I'd be rolling.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
He didn't point he made a gun. Yes, he made
a gun.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
And I'm like, well, that's how is that fourth finger
pointing back at you? That one's pointing at the sky,
because the saying is actually three yes, like well or
three point back at you. Yes, you have three fingers.
But he didn't. He put the thumb up like a gun.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, and he said it was a gun.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
And then it made the point a little like, oh,
now there's a whole other meaning here because you're saying
you're saying, though, oh, if I accuse you, I'm accusing me,
which is supposed to be a humility kind of statement, right, right,
But also he was like, if I had a gun
and I pointed it at you.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Uh huh I have, I'd have three fingers pointing back
at me. I'm like, boy, that's not threatening at all.
Yeah exactly, I mean it was super threatening. And also
like I've also.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Left because he struggled to explain it.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yes, and then at some point he had to have
either realized, oh, but a gun is still pointing at you.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
That didn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Uhha, my English is not working he or then he
kept just trying to go down the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I just I laughed. I laughed heartedly.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
I did too. But doctor Jennifer Kunst in psychology today
back from twenty eleven, but I figured the saying's still there.
She's kind of like, yes, like this is an important
thing to remember that maybe we can't accept something painful
within ourselves, so we accuse others of doing it because
(48:41):
we don't want those bad things to apply to us.
She said that it's the psychoanalytic term is projective identification.
She's like, I call it shame relocation. I'm like, well,
there you go, and it seems like it should be
really like humble, and yet all he did was make
himself look way more suspicious.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
He looked way more suspicious. It didn't land, No, it
didn't land.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
He was like, he's trying to say, why would I
accuse you when that really is pointing back at myself
and or my accusers are really just projecting onto us.
But I'm like, but.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Also, it's his job to literally charge people with crime.
Uh huh, So he has to accuse people, right, And
the question was not a who do you think you
are a kind of question, or it wasn't in response
to like judging someone else, which is usually how people
use the phrase like is to say that when you judge,
(49:44):
if you point your finger at somebody else to judge,
you've got three more pointing back at you, right, that
because you can be judged. Right, it's not about literal
like determining crime. And he has to accuse people, and
he to do that, and I hope that he doesn't
have three fingers fighting back at him.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I mean, that's it seems like very corrupt. But that's
exactly what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
I'm like, he's he's just admitting to corruption.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yes, it is a little bit.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
I mean, because why would you even bring that saying
up when your job is to accuse people of wrongdoing,
hopefully with evidence.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Right, unless it's a whole other meaning layer of him
bringing it up so you can point the fictitious gun
and then remind the guy at the same time I'm
in charge of it.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah, I don't know. So it felt felt weird.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yeah, I mean people project Freudian ter right to project
yell onto other people.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
But we definitely do this.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
We definitely do this this whole like because we're already
primed with the way that we think about it, right,
you know.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Well, And I just always find it interesting when you
hear someone, often in politics, accuse somebody of something heinous
and then like fifteen minutes later it's revealed that they
have actually done that heinous thing. Yeah, I'm like, oh, well,
it's just so project a little harder. Maybe we'll see
(51:14):
it on the moon. I mean, That's how I felt
about this guy, is like, it sounds like you're just
admitting to corruption.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, or threatening the documentary.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Don't make us look bad. Oh yeah, geez, they're not
going to go there for vacation. Probably not.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
I should should hope not no.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
And then the Dominican Secretary of State said of the pilots,
even criminals can appear to be good people, and I
was like, fair, But also criminals tend to think of
themselves as good people.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
A lot of them do right.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Doctor Stanton's same now wrote a article for Psychology Today,
the criminal views himself as a good person. Perhaps the
most surprising discovery in my early years of trying to
understand the criminal mind was that, without exception, offenders regard
themselves as good human beings. No matter how long their
trail of carnage, no matter what suffering they caused others,
(52:14):
every one of them retained the view that he was
a good person. Nearly all affirm that there are others
who do terrible things that they would never do, and
those people are criminals. I was like, oh yeah. The
capacity to experience remorse supports this view of inner goodness.
I recall a man who broke into a woman's home
(52:36):
and made off with jewelry and priceless heirlooms. When he
learned the victim was suffering from terminal illness, he returned
everything he stole. The remorse he felt from this one
situation bolstered his view of how compassionate a person he was,
It did not deter him from other break ins. It
just like, okay, I mean, I guess in order to survive,
(53:00):
you've got to have this idea that you're not really
a bad person, You're just a person who is in
a bad situation.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh well, this is called fundamental attribution error.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Okay, Okay, So like this, Yes, we do that, and
it's not altogether wrong. But under the umbrella of this
fundamental attribution error, there's a couple of things we tend
to do when we do something bad or we fail
or whatever. We tend to look at our situation right,
(53:33):
and we can see all the ways that the situation
set us up for failure and so that it's not
really all our fault.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Or our fault at all.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
Right, Okay, so we're really good at that as a person,
But we also have this self serving bias that makes
us spin the story so that we personally our character
like who we are, comes out looking good.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Often that it is facilitated by blaming the situations around us. Right.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
We also, though, however, tend to when we look at
somebody else's failure.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
And bad choices.
Speaker 3 (54:06):
Is we tend to blame them their character and who
they are and fail to notice the situation that they
found themselves in and how all the many ways that
the situation might influence. So we just we overestimate our own,
we underestimate others. But the truth is situations influence us.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Well absolutely, But if you the other guy also maybe
was in a situation that forced their hand to make
a poor choice, right right, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
Well I'm just saying we underestimate that to be true,
right exactly.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
Yeah, Like people fail to recognize that, oh, we can
push this little old lady over, Well you were being
chased by a dog and you didn't really mean to
push the little old lady over, But you don't see that.
You just see that she pushed this person pushed a
little old lady over.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Right, Like we just say, well, they're just a bad person.
If they had more character, they would have or whatever. Yeah,
we're not really good about that, you know. And so yeah,
and so it's that's the error that we make when
we when we do this and we blame the situation.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
So as a criminal might do they understand all of.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
The many many ways that has kind of come together
to make them who they are. In the moments, they
might even see little progresses like hey, it wasn't that
I didn't hurt anybody this time, Like I'm getting better, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
You know, like I'm not.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
I didn't stab anybody when I broke into that house, right, Like,
I mean, nobody was home, but I still didn't stop anybody.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
I waited till they left, you know.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
I mean, like a person can see all the many
ways that like they aren't as bad as they could be,
or choices they've made. But you know, yeah, and obviously
when you're in that kind of extreme area of being
a criminal, like it's a little.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
It's a little hard.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
But like if we think about it in the regular world, right, yeah,
like you're working with a colleague, a friend, or you know,
a spouse. Whatever the small progresses we make, we can
we know we're trying really hard to make things better,
and we celebrate our tiny little progresses, and we know
all the things that go into our attitudes and how
(56:22):
we may or may not handle a stress well or not.
But the but it's likely that the other person in
the relationship probably only sees that you don't handle stress well.
You don't choose to honor me, you choose to treat
me poorly.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Yeah, so that's you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
Yeah, And so when we think about it that way,
it's kind of like, oh, I see what we do there,
like yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
But you know, yeah, I'm sure these guys look at it.
Why not that bad? I just flew the plane.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Relative morality, man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Real life business aviation, it's small and big business. Business
aviation or general aviation, depending on where you are in
the world, is what they call it. It's any flight
that's not conducted by the military or like a scheduled
commercial airline. Okay, So any type of airplane or helicopter.
(57:23):
So when you have helicopters up surveying rush hour traffic,
that is considered business aviation.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
Businesses of all sizes use it. Entrepreneurs, Fortune five hundred
companies all the way down to nonprofits of all sizes
for whatever reason might utilize this at least occasionally. It
does tend to be very safe and secure. They do
have a very high standard, at least in the US
(57:55):
for how these jets run. They have special awards that
they give when there's no errors in flying and like
the goal is to get to you know, twenty years,
fifty years, seventy five years of no incidents. Right, it's
an impetus to earn these so that you can by
(58:19):
having good upkeep of your equipment and say it following
the rules very carefully to make sure that everybody's really safe.
This particular kind of aviation contributes about one hundred and
fifty billion dollars to the economy each year a lot,
a lot, a lot, and positively contributes to our nation's
(58:43):
balance of trade and creates about one point one million
jobs in the US a lot.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
It's such a big, big industry. Yeah, and I'm not
at all a part.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Of it, very mad about that. So Europe does have
a growing appetite for cocaine and other illicit drugs, and
twenty thirteen was kind of on the leading edge of this.
It really started ramping up about this time of the
trafficking between Latin America and Europe. They didn't talk about
(59:16):
the intermediaries in this because they were only talking about
the flight, but basically they have these criminal networks where
they have people moving it from Ecuador, Colombia to the
Dominican Republic so that it can get on boats and
planes to go to Europe. The Dominican Republic is the
(59:38):
closest coast to the South America, to Colombia. In South
America to get to a it's basically a major hub, right,
which is Yeah.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
I mean that's kind of sad, but you think about
the year, yeah, like twenty thirteen. That makes sense though,
because the giant recession hit for the bubble burst right
in like the eight nine time frame, and then everybody
here got too poor to buy cocaine, so they had
(01:00:13):
to export into Europe.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
As of twenty twenty one, Europe accounted for about twenty
one percent of all cocaine users globally.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Still, wow, that is like.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
The UK is the second highest cocaine usage in the world.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I don't know why that tracks, but it just does
no offense. But there's like a it's almost a comical
view of it that I have, Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yep. It really exploded in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen as
far as the demand went, and a lot of it
goes through Ecuador as well, so they understand that there's
the supply chain that needs to be disrupted. Yeah, in
order for this not to make it to its eventual location. However,
(01:01:06):
if the demand is there, there will be a reason
to get it to those locations. So simply disrupting the
supply side is never going to be enough. No, they
have to also figure out why people are using and
help them not use.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah, that's hard, right, it's hard, gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Because it requires a lot of our societies and just
in ways that very few societies are willing to step up.
And then we mentioned Almago the magician. I'm like, why
is this dude just like admitting crime on this documentary.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Because this is crime.
Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
He's already paid his debt to right, He's already been
to prison and gotten out for this.
Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yes, he went on. He went into a in twenty
fifteen because of the French Connection, the golden age of
the French Connection. He was part of it. And so
now they call it the Grandpa Connection, the Pappy connection
because all of the people involved in that, including Lorent
(01:02:19):
Fiaconi il Mago, they're in there. They were in their
seventies and twenty fifteen. Yeah, right, like they're finally getting
caught for this stuff. He wrote a book about his.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yeah, which I'm putting on my book list.
Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
By the way, oh, I mean later on it and
I don't know if it's in this episode or not, honestly,
but but he's talking about one of the other guys
going to prison and how he.
Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Talked to them.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
He said he didn't do f bed basically for his
for a first time or I was.
Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Like, yeah, that's such a compliment.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
I mean they ended up in this trial, and I mean, yeah,
he's a he can just admit it now, he can.
That's how that's how he can be in this documentary.
It's kind of know, we got paid to me in
this documentary. He totally didn't do anything for free.
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
No, as he should not.
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
He is an expert, that's right, all right. Last little
silly thing. On a lighter note, though, we've made a
lot of light out of this, like potentially dark. So
one of the transition scenes, like in the first episode,
(01:03:33):
I noticed there was like a loading screen like a
website right right, And I laughed out loud because my
son just told me what that thing is called.
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Oh, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
There's not the loading No, it's not spinny wheel of death.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I think I've referred to Yes, often, that's also what
I call it because it means your website's not gonna load.
It's called a throbber. No y and I laughed so
hard and loud. We were going to your event on Saturday,
and cade bus out with us in the car. It's
(01:04:12):
called a.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Throbber, and I'm like, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
I'm laughing. I'm like, it sounds so inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
It is completely inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Well, I'm telling you somebody was trying to load an
adult website when they named this.
Speaker 6 (01:04:30):
Yes, but I mean have so many questions who named this.
I have no idea when didn't get its name. I
couldn't have been like the original, like.
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
The early use of a throbber curd in a web
browser in the early nineties. Oh my god, that's when
you saw it. Yep, there was the Netscape logo. Oh chep.
Nets Cap had a throbber. Let's see the animal depicted
the end expanding and contracting, hence the name the rob that's.
Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Right, because it used to like breathe. That is so hysterical.
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
So I didn't. I had not read all the way down.
I was like, oh, that's funny, that's what it's called.
And then oh, yeah, there you go. I'm glad. I
printed out that information.
Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
The Robber Robber.
Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Next time we have something really available. Oh yeah, and
kind of experimental. It's a quote unquote feature length film,
but it's sixty two minutes. It's not a huge time commitments.
And it's called Milk and Cereal and a couple of
YouTubers made it. Think like think the Blair Witch Project,
(01:05:50):
but it's that similar style of footage. They made it
for eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Good job, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
The only thing they did was buy a cam and
pay one actor. They had one professional actor and they
paid that guy, and everybody else was like, we're going
to do this because it's fun. And then they released
it to their own YouTube channel where they do sketch comedy.
So it kind of has this feeling like it's something
you should be watching. It feels like there are other
(01:06:20):
videos okay, which I think is really fun. That's awesome,
But I'm looking forward to Milk and Cereal s E.
R I A L. And it's available to everyone because
it's free on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Kay, yes, join us for a little a little fun.
Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Yeah, it has a cult classic feeling to me.
Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Sure, Yeah, I mean it will see like only came
out late last year, so but it's like it's got
that almost ilicit so I hope will be fun. All
the reviews I've seen of it where people who like
this is actually legitimately pretty entertaining, okay, awesome, So here's
hoping they're not just like friends of those YouTubers.
Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
I hope not, but if they are, we will destroy them.
Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Also fair thank you so much for listening. We know
we don't come on the radio, that you make a
choice to listen to us, and we really appreciate it.
Rate and review wherever you get shows because it does
help us get found. Tell a friend is more fun
when you can listen with a friend, And until next time,
be safe, be kind, and wash your hands.
Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
The irony of me sniffing
Welcome back to Killer Fun, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christie and
I'm Jackie. And today today we are talking about cocaine air. No,
not cocaine bear and not con Air and not Conair,
Cocaine air, cocaine in.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
The sky, in the sky, It's right.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, facts can be difficult to determine if someone's lying.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
M I mean, that's a fair assessment. But I think
we do it a lot.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I mean, yes, but if people are well coordinated enough
to lie in unison, Yeah, then it can be difficult
to determine.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It can be harder. It can absolutely be harder.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
But I would say as far as investigative skills and
the ability to fact check, it's fair create an argument
kind of like do better.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, I don't really have a cast to talk about
for this episode because it's just like the people involved.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
It's the people involved.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
And a lot of them have either limited online presence
or it's scrubbed. You can tell they used to and
they don't. More like yeah, you don't say, yeah, you
don't say. Olivier Bukara is the creator of this show,
(01:34):
and he is also the head of editorial content for
Condeinace in France. Okay, so like a big deal, like
a legitimate journalist.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Yeah, you don't see that as often, rightes Right.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
And he's got other documentaries that are on Netflix. He's
got another one called Lords of Scam from twenty twenty
one and The Masked Scammer from twenty twenty two, so
they're both originally in French but dubbed in English. Yeah.
And then one of the director's, Maxim Bonnet, has a
Netflix documentary called The Billionaire, The Butler and the Boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Oh. I think it's that popped up as something like
a suggestion.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Probably because if you're watching this, like, oh a same director. Yep, yeah, exactly,
also in French originally but now yeah dubbed. Yeah, they're like,
if you like that, maybe you will also like.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
This, right, yeah, how do we How do we feel
about the dub? It was okay, Yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
It's not like amazing, I get it. Probably because it's
a documentary. Maybe they're they're not maybe necessarily pulling the
most expensive voiceover talent, They're not spending quite as much
time to try and make the voice fit the person
(03:02):
quite as much. Yeah, I just and they don't have
like a script for people to go by as much.
I think there's maybe less directing happening with the voiceover
on this. It was not quite as good. But I
also kind of knew that going in that it was
going to be overdubbed.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, so, I you know, this is a documentary. I'm
not a narrative right right. I feel like they could
have this is me getting picky. Look, I'm getting picky.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I feel like they could have gotten away with just
simple translation. Oh, like having an actual translator on screen,
asked the question like they do in a news story
as the news like ask the person.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Right where they like, and they give them a couple
of seconds where you hear them speaking in their native language,
yes case French, and then they have like a and.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Then they cut into it.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Just a translator who's not trying to emote, because I
feel like that where they lost me a few times
was they're emoting and I.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Was like, y'all stop, just stop. It was like middle
school level. And I feel bad because but also if
you're cast in that role, that must be hard.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
If if you're wanting an overdub of a performance, and
yet really it's just supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
A translation, right, And also you have people on the screen,
not all of which can be telling the truth, right,
So now you're trying to mimic somebody else's natural way
of speaking while they're lying, which is different than acting.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, it's different than acting.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
But I think like professional translators who are able to
just translate appropriately, and then it just gives is it
that more of an objective response?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Sure? Yeah, it gives it a feels more like a
news story. Yeah, where you can hear their French underneath
a little bit and get how they're saying it. Yes,
but then also get an audio translation of.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
It, right, Because then at some points I felt leading,
but then you're like, okay, what wait are these No,
those are not actors what I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It felt kind of weird with the I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's that's fair.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
It was interesting, but and then the whole like catch
me if you can style you know what, go for it, right,
But I don't think it landed as well.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
As they thought it was.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
I'm being so critical of this show, Okay, I just
don't I thought it was a little much.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That's fair. So we were talking before we hit record. Yeah,
we were like, really, just watch episode two.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Watch episode two because.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Episode two has a little twist that I did not
see coming, and that part was really fun.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
It was fun.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
It was fun, and they do a good enough recap
of what happened in episode one, uh huh, and then
you kind of get enough of an idea maybe the
last five minutes of the last episode, just to yeah,
find out what happened, right, you are right if you
want to, if you want to know, that would be like,
(06:31):
but we're going to talk about all of episode one.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
We're gonna talk about EPs one because that's what we
do here.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, but I'm but if but if you're looking for
our recommendation, if you have not watched it yet and
you think, oh, well, some of this sounds interesting, just
go watch episode two because that's the fun one.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
It is the fun one.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Then the catch me, if you can style, fits a
lot better. Yeah, and there's a lot more to it.
So it feels like the urgency they're building is not
for you know, in vain.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, that's fair. All right,
So shall I recap by all means? Okay? Four frenchmen
were on a private plane about to leave the Dominican
Republic when the plane was raided by the Dominican National
Drug Council. About seven hundred kilos of cocaine were on board.
(07:24):
The two primary pilots for the flight, Bruno Udos and
Pascal Foraret, as well as a backup pilot Alan Castani
and soul passenger Nicolas Pisa Pion, all claim to know
little about the luggage and absolutely nothing about the drugs
they're in. Neither the Dominican authorities nor a French examining magistrate,
(07:50):
Christine Saline Rulan by this, but all the men maintain
their innocence. The men are ordered into detention for a year,
and it takes two years and four months for the
case to go to trial. And it's difficult to know
what to believe, especially when there is a title card
(08:12):
that states the facts in this documentary have been meticulously verified. However,
it's possible that some people may not be telling the
whole truth. I'm like, well, you can't verify some things.
You have to assume that what people are telling you
is the truth, and if they're lying to you, there
might not be a way to verify that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
There's not always. There's not always, but yeah, there's not always.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
There's not always. So Episode one ends just before the
verdicte is announced at their trial, so you see all
of it up to that point. My thoughts it's like,
I'm really glad somebody said it that somebody's lying. I mean, yeah,
(09:00):
I guess because somebody has to be lying.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Somebody's lying.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Somebody's lying. I don't know exactly who it is, of course,
somebody's lying.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, And the investigation was okay.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
No, yeah, I thought a helicopter dash cam seemed pretty
fancy for twenty thirteen. I'm like, oh cool, and then
you find out later, oh, this is the first time
they've ever filmed to a drug raid like this. Yeah,
you know, as done by the Drug Council. I'm like, interesting, okay,
(09:40):
why is the cocaine so dirty?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (09:42):
It was gross, right, it was really really.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Like was looking at it and I'm like, is it
dirty on the outside. It's got to be the outside,
I don't know. They showed like closer up images of
some of it, and it looked like dirty on the inside.
I was like, cocaine's expensive, yeah, like it should be clean.
Come on.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, No, it was weird because you expected it to be.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I mean, I know, all I know is what I've
ever seen on TV on TV. But you know what
else I've seen on TV is like videos and pictures
from DEA raids, Yes, exactly, and all of that cocaine
is like wrapped and really carefully, very very clean.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
It's crystal yane, ha ha, I see what I did there.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
But no, it's it was odd because a lot of
I mean some of it was like black bricks almost, yeah,
and it was like, what is happening with that?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I don't know, It's suspicious, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Pascal says that he thought it would be cleared up
quickly and that it was a quote unquote obvious misunderstanding. Like,
was that obvious misunderstanding that you had assumed that the
authorities had already been paid off? That was my suspicion immediately.
(11:01):
And then they've apprehended these people, they're going to their
hearing and they have Bruno and Pascal handcuffed to one another.
I mean, I was like, okay, obviously they're in this together.
Might not make it easier for them to escape together?
Speaker 3 (11:18):
I mean, like I said, the investigation and by that
I mean the whole situation was Okay, I wouldn't say
that we were.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Watching brilliance unfold, you know what I mean. I don't.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
I wouldn't have them teach a class on investigation or
crime scenes or anything. Probably not even just you know, logic. Really,
they're even their their logic was a little like, oh gosh,
are you really going to screw up an investigation that
(11:55):
has this much evidence and you're gonna find only the coke?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
They found no other thing. No, no, there.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Was not what not nothing, no things at all. Well,
that brings me to the my next point. Somebody knew
about this cocaine. Somebody knew about it so like heavy,
it was heavy. Somebody put it on the plane. There
wasn't enough room in the cargo hold at all, right,
(12:26):
they had to put it inside. I'm like, okay, so
if you're the pilot, let's give them the benefit of
the doubt that they don't know. Okay, I'm like, did
the business aviation company you work for not like you
very much? I mean seriously, because if you don't know
that this is a possibility, they don't like you, right, right,
(12:47):
because also they're not sharing the profits with you, they're
not making it worth your while. Oh, and they don't
like you. They're willing to sacrifice you.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
Yeah, like it was a Oh, there's just so much
about the whole situation that is really weird.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I mean, it's weird in a lot of ways. It's
just Nicholas the passenger, uh doesn't want to mix up
his lies. I laughed out loud at this part.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I mean right, like he was like, I don't remember
what I said.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, I don't remember what I said before when they
asked him about the suitcases. Where all those suitcases yours?
And he goes, I don't remember what I said before.
I don't want to say. I'm like, that is the
most incriminating thing you could possibly say.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
I mean, yeah, why would he even utter that? Well,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm like, maybe the guy in episode two is right.
Maybe that guy's not very smart.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Guy.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
Episode two absolutely was right about a lot.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Yeah, he was absolutely right about whole their.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Little chicken code names.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Uh huh. Yeah, that was weird.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
And he was like, that's dumb. I'm not calling him that. Yep,
it is dumb. Oh, it's very funny.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yep, Alan Aflu owns the plane, and he's an eyewear manufacturer,
and I'm like, all the better to see the cocaine
with me.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Pretty Oh not that not that shipment though.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
No, not that one. They did say at one point
that a passenger on a private plane having six suitcases
wasn't unusual. And I couldn't decide if I'm obscenely rich,
I'm taking a private plane, do I want to take everything?
Or do I want to take nothing?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I mean right, all I could think was, okay, it's
a bit of a trope. But you do see on
on you know, TV movie.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Scripts or whatever, that they take a lot of luggage
with them. Yeah, right, But also if you're on a
private plane, you could be going and staying for months somewhere.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Right, right, that might be different.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Well, and see, like if I we're going to a
private island, to say, I'd probably take a lot of stuff.
If I'm going to France, maybe less maybe less, right,
Like I want a toothpaste and like, you know, my
multi vitamin and yeah, I don't know my undies that
(15:20):
I know fit right, you know everything else just buy
it in France.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
Yeah, yeah, or or you might have a place there, yeah, right,
stock to with stuff, yeah, back and forth.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
But I don't know either. I couldn't decide. I'm like,
it would be it would be one or the other.
It wouldn't be any of this, like I have, you know,
a regular bag and a carry on bag like I
would normally doing commercial air travel, right, it wouldn't be that.
It would either be six pieces of luggage or like
(15:53):
some he said, somebody else the plastic bag, right, right, yeah,
like one or the other.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Yeah, No, I think you're right.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
It would be yeah, one or the other. Yeah. So
there was a lawyer for the two main pilots, and
he claimed he believed in their innocence, which I'm like, oh,
that's nice. It's it's not required for your defense attorney
to believe in your innocence, but it is nice. But
he did suggest that there was suspicions that the drug
(16:24):
counsel was corrupt in some way, and I'm like, this
is the least shocking thing in this whole documentary so far,
the idea that they might be making it up and
that they're filming this one first because they're like, this
is going to be a good one because we set
it up to me. Yeah, good ones, not shocking at all,
(16:48):
not at all. That said, also, somebody has to be
the first true, right, They're not going to bust somebody
that they don't think is doing something illegal, So chances
are good the first one they.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Film was probably legit. Well I'm not.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Saying it's probably legit. I'm saying that no matter which
one was the first one they filmed, they're probably going
to catch somebody doing something wrong in some way because
they're not going to raid something that they don't have
a pretty decent suspicion that something illegal is going on. Yeah,
(17:27):
despite the fact that.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
They likely the facilitated it.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
It's possible.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
But also like, where's the rest of their evidence? Come on? Yeah,
come on, Yes, and they're burning the drugs I know.
I was like that smoke's got to be pretty dangerous.
I mean I would, yeah, I thought, what is in
that smoke that is just evaporate?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I mean the guy that was Escobar's chemist, Bars Heisenberg,
and he had a hat which was really great, but
he talks about what was in it, and I thought,
I do think though, if you set fire to that, it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Would kind of dissipate pretty quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Gone, right, So maybe it wouldn't be enough to carry
to people.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
But what they've also well, I'm thinking that people like
in the immediate vicinity not even necessarily Okay, yeah, it
woul dissipate pretty quickly, but they're not that far away
from it. And also they don't only burn cocaine.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Right, they don't only burn cooked but in like that place,
that one is probably it's a very quick fireball and
it's gone.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
They were poor gasoline all.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Of that, and they were they were pretty far back.
So I'm just I guess my thought is the vapor
probably is.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Probably not that big of a deal.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
He doesn't have properties anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Okay. I was like, wow, okay, so we're just gonna
like burn it right out there in the middle.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Look, yeah, I mean because all it I mean basically
it is gasoline in powder form, I mean.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
In a way. Yeah, so that's fair.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I don't know, but the other things might cause
a whole wide area to have a contact.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, maybe that's part of the appeal.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
So I don't have any resources, I mean, I don't
don't smuggle drugs.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Don't smuggle drugs.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
If you're gonna smuggle drugs, be better at it. Yes,
make sure the right people are paid off or better yet,
just don't do it.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Just don't do it. But also pick a better chemist. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
There, So here's how it works. Christy erects her search history.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Hey, an essay.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
We promise it's nothing more nefarious than a podcast to
find out what's true some of the psychological motivations behind
the character's actions and real life applications that relate to
our topic. I have no idea what Christy decided to
look up could be the same thing that captured my
curiosity or something I never thought of.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Is it true? Yes, I mean purportedly, unless someone is lying,
which someone is.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
I mean someone is.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
I felt like I felt like I had two very
differing mindsets. One part of me was very like, this
is an investigation into a crime. Yes, it's an interesting crime.
There are unique factors, but it's a crime and it's
investigation and that's it. The other side of me went
full on conspiracy.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I mean, and I think the truth of it lies
somewhere in between. Maybe somewhere because I don't necessarily think
that anybody is fully guilty or anybody is fully innocent.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Definitely on the plane I feel like there's a lot
there's a lot of whatever is very compartmentalized, a lot
of like wink winks, but we don't really know what's
happening and we're not gonna get involved, so you know
that kind of thing. Or this was a whole, this
was a cover. This is part of their cover. They're undercover.
(21:17):
Like I went full on conspiracy. These guys, they just
up their own street cred with this whole thing. Like
there is something much bigger going on, because how to
two people who are pilots, who were nuclear certified, oh,
become a private jet pilots for that kind of private
(21:41):
jet service?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
There are better ones out there, and like why would
you want to just go have your own plane, retire
and go fly for fun? Why would you? You wouldn't
There is something going on here. It's deeper. I will
wait for the movie.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yes, I felt like because I feel like the movie
could be really fun.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Big could be really fun.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Especially when you like stretch and take some liberties here
and there.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
Yes, like cocaine bear. I mean like really that'd be hilarious. Yes,
I could totally see I could totally see a whole
like satire version, you know, or a whole dramatized version, and.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
I mean, like I think of it as like like
an Ocean's eleven type thing. Yeah, yeah, that like that
could be really fun, Like it's kind of exciting, and
then then you have a whole like prison scene and
then they're you know, the twist and the metal ones.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
There's so much you could do here, uh huh, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
It would be fun. I do kind of appreciate that
the filmmakers don't really take a stand. They they make
some suggestions, but they leave it open even at the end.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Okay, So they're flying a Falcon fifty and I was like,
how old would that plane be?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I don't it was not new.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
It was not It was not new, especially since the
last time they made a Falcon fifty was in two
thousand and eight. That was the when the last one
was delivered, so it was probably actually made in two
thousand and seven, so that was years before these events
took place, and it did not look even that new.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It did not.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
They the first Falcon fifty came into service in nineteen
seventy nine. They revamped it in nineteen ninety six, and
then basically stopped making that actual one. They changed it
enough for it to have a new name after that
(23:51):
after two thousand and eight. In the eighties they ranged
somewhere between eight hundred and seventy thousand and one point
six million dollars in cost. The newer versions were between
three and four million.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean not.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Inexpensive, but I mean not a bad plane but by
any stretch. But you know, it's called a super mid
size long range business jet.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yes, a business jet.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It was definitely a business it's.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
A business jet, and and it was I mean definitely
had that long range, which was nice. But I cannot
even imagine that this would be any fun after flying
the jets they flew right right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Yes, because they were flying nuclear equipped jets. They were
like super jets, like fighter pilots, like.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Bombers, and they did all the things like how this
is boring, this is boring. Get a lyric jet or something,
I don't know, something fun. This is not who I
don't know, seems that's my hot, this is my this
is my sticking point though time through.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
A perfectly fine jet. It's just not a very exciting jet.
It's for people who are who are used to a
more exciting ride.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
Right, Like, like if I like was a NASCAR driver, right,
or you know racing, I would not retire to my
prius right and then drive uber with it, right, That's
not what I would do.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's but people do make choices. That's that's fair, okay.
So the news reports varied. Most of them said seven
hundred kilos. Yes, most of them did cocaine. Some of
them said six hundred and eighty kilos. Is there a
big difference in price between six hundred and eighty kilos
(25:53):
and seven hundred kilos.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna go there's a pretty it would be
too rich for my blood.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
I mean that difference, I don't.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Know, okay. So I looked up what the prices cocaine
were in France in twenty thirteen. Actually found this data.
I was so proud of myself. So street value retail
price of cocaine in France in twenty thirteen was eighty
(26:22):
seven US dollars per gram. Wow. So that means it
was fifty nine million dollars worth of cocaine if it
was six hundred and eighty kilos, or almost sixty one
million dollars if it was seven hundred kilos. That's one
(26:46):
point seven million dollars difference. That's wild. That's a lot
of money, mean so much. I mean even if you
look at the wholesale prices which were also available, by
the way, Wow, twenty seven million US dollars or twenty
eight million US dollars, it was the difference of about
eight hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
But even that is that's a lot of money, a
lot of money, so much. It's so Which was it?
Was it six hundred and eighty Did they just round
up to make it seven hundred kilos? Did they try
and make it easy or is their discrepancies.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
In the world.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
You're right, though, reporters do tend to round They say
things like all those steven hundred and they say them
almost so fast, yeah, or something, just to kind of
give it a round number because people will remember that easy,
more easily.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I mean, twenty kilos of cocaine is a lot. That's
a lot. You're talking about more than forty pounds of.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Right, Okay, See that was my what is a I
gotta look at the weight limit of the stinking airplane?
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Because that was the other thing is I was like,
what in the world and weight limit like what in
the that is a.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Lot freaking I mean commercial jets are different, right, I
get it.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
But even on a commercial jet, the weight limits it's
built to hold, like what an average of one person
and having like two.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Bags, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
There were like what thirty six bags in the twenty
eight twenty eight I think it was twenty eight.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
See, like that's a lot for a nine seater.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
It's like, okay, so maximum takeoff weight is yeah, thirty eight,
three hundred and twenty pounds.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
The jet is twenty thousand pounds.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So uh yeah, so it could carry luggage wise around
eighteen thousand pounds. So basically it could carry around if
I'm doing this, logically, it could carry around eight thousand kilos.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Oh, there were cargo seven hundred kilos, so okay, so
eight thousand okay, So okay, So it was below the.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
That means seven many three hundred pounds left that they
had four guys all.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Around that two hundred mark. Yeah, so two four six eight.
Now you have sixty five hundred pounds left for other
real luggage.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
So they're they're okay, they're within it because the seven
hundred pounds is just the weight of the of the
cocaine right now, you luggage weight, right, I'm just saying.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
They were pushing the edge of they were.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Pushing it because that's max weight for takeoff.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Huh. Okay, they were they were in it, but they
were in it. But wow, but not but close?
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Interesting huh?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Interesting is right? So somebody knew exactly how much huh
they could put on that?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yes, yes, this see this is my logic.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
This is where I'm going with this is there is
something very unique about the choice.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Uh huh. Makes me think maybe it was closer to
six eighty than seven.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Maybe som okay, our musings, we should just hit fast
forward in there somewhere, just make it go fast and
get to.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
The Some of those will be in in the for sure. Elmajo,
the former chemist for Pablo Esque Bar The Magician, said
that the pilots should have been tipped off because that
much cocaine would have an odor.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
And I'm like this guy, by the way, I love
this guy. He was so funny.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
He was really funny. I think you got to have
a sense of humor to to do this kind of
very stressful yeah, kind.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Of real life Heisenberg. Well you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, breaking, Well, you circle around through the breaking bad
world and then you get to where I'm at.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Right. So, Zenia Health, which is a recovery center with
nine locations around the country, has some information. What does
cocaine look like? Well, pure cocaine looks like powdered sugar,
or talcum powder or flour, cornstarch, baby powder, any fine
(31:13):
white powder. What does it smell like? Pure cocaine is odorless?
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Okay, okay, because I did think that was a little
weird like it should smell.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
But then well, I guess if we remember what it
looked like, it was not pure.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
No, it was definitely not And if you were to
taste it, it would be unpleasant and bitter. Okay, okay
on its own, But if you taste it or smell it,
you run the risk of ingesting it. So you want
to be more careful in those identification techniques. But Renaissance
(31:55):
Recovery had an article as well about what it smells
like that and again they say, in its purest form,
it's almost odorless, but it's rarely pure.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, it's rarely pure. That makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Additives such as baking soda, gasoline, ammonia can change the
smell of a drug. Those were all things that Mago mentioned.
But it also means that the scent of it is
going to change from batch batch because it depends on
what you use, and it depends on how much of
it you use. And now I'm guessing El Mago being
(32:32):
a quote unquote chemist, I don't know how trained he
was in his chemistry, but he probably was pretty specific
with his amounts, so to him, his cocaine probably had
a fairly uniform scent, which would be a strong, harsh,
(32:52):
unpleasant chemical odor. Yeah, a lot like cleaning products.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Well, And that was my only issue though, is that
they are like, you can't smell that. I'm like, have
you smelled jet fuel?
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (33:04):
If you're on a tarmac the jet fuel, how would
you even?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I mean, and you got to assume the plane's been cleaned.
We know that the that the flying attendant went to
put food on the plane. I don't know how stringent
their cleaning is. If there had been something gross on
the plane, you know, maybe maybe she used ammonia to
clean something.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Right exactly, And I mean that mixed with jet a
and like, I mean, I don't know that you would
actually smell it, But I could see what the point
of it saying, like, yes, it does have an odor,
that much of it would have an odor elsewhere though,
right maybe maybe right, But yeah, it wasn't and it
was a lot of it, but most of it was
(33:50):
in the cargo hold.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, there was like six bags inside, which is still
a lot of cocaine, right, don't get me wrong, it's
a lot of okay in six bags, yes, but it
was near the back of the plane in the like
passenger area. If you're doing things in the cockpit, maybe not,
(34:13):
maybe not. And you know, it can have an odor
when it's being used, depending on the paraphernalia used to
ingest it. But that's not what was happening here. No,
it was wrapped in plastic and in luggage. Yeah, So
I was like, that doesn't hold water.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
It doesn't hold water.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Adding fentanyl to cocaine does change the smell a little bit,
but not enough for it to be a reliable identification.
So maybe just don't do drugs, caybe, just.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Don't smell drugs and don't do them and don't do
those things. And yeah, but definitely don't just go up
and sniff it.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
Yeah. No, the four men said that they found the
Dominican Spanish difficult to understand. Is it really that different?
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (34:59):
Yeah, especially if you're French, Yes, and you're what you
know is Castilian, and then you come over to you know,
all of all of the Latin countries and all of
their different.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
And Dominican Republic in particular is very very fast. It
has a kind of unique rhythm. They have slang and
idioms that are all their own that you might not understand.
They tend to drop consonants in their pronunciation, so because
it's so fast. So if what you're used to is
(35:36):
a more pronounced Spanish, then yeah, it might be difficult
for you to understand.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
I can't help but think it kind of sounds like
it's like Jamaican, right, Like you know in Jamaica when
when you know the English has a particular and just
translate that then to Spanish.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
Yeah, that's what I feel like to me.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
You think about like all the different kinds of just
within the United States States, like the different kind of
it's more accents than dialects. But you think about the
diversity of English in the United States, and then you
like go to like Ireland and the way they speak English.
(36:20):
We can barely understand it. I mean exactly, it's similar
in the difference, I think, oh yeah, for sure. Is
it lawful the way the four men were held in
the Dominican Republic.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
People there are different laws.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
I think it's a little odd because I don't we
don't have that kind of system. However, if we did
not have a bail system, who knows what it might
look like.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
This is true, and so it doesn't seem that crazy.
And they were under house arrest after their conviction.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Which I thought that was a little weird because I
was like, well, that's part of the whole like kinkiness
of the aftermath of things.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
I think, as far as the Dominican Republic is concerned,
this was lawful because they can hold you without official
charges of any kind for forty eight hours, right, Okay,
you can be detained for up to three months or
longer for complex crimes while they investigate. And even if
(37:23):
you are released after the first forty eight hours, when
they have to release you, they can require you to
stay within the Dominican Republic for an extended period of time.
And yeah, complex cases can take years, which is exactly
what we saw here. So it's within the Dominican law.
(37:44):
And I guess the examining magistrate didn't seem to have
a lot of impetus to intervene because she didn't believe them. Yeah,
so yeah, uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
You know, it's funny because that's.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Not all together different than ours, you know, as far
as like, you know, how long you can hold somebody
before you have to charge them, and then after you've
charged them, then we arraign you yes, and then there's
a decision about you know, remand or not or whatever
you know, and then you know, so it's not a
hard and we can say if even if we release people,
(38:25):
we can tell people you may not.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Leave right well, and if you if they're say, oh
well your bail is our bond depending on where you live,
what's what they call it. You know, if you can't
afford to put up the half a million dollars or
whatever or the percentage of the amount that's required to
(38:47):
keep to allow you to walk free, they can just
keep you in jail.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
They can they can detain you. So I mean, it's
not altogether different. But two years.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
For crime, it's not like a violent crime that seemed
a little strange.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
It did seems excessive. Excessive. Yeah, they claimed that the
third pilot on the plane was needed for a transatlantic flight.
Are more pilots needed for a translantic sight? Yes, that
is correct. Typically transatlantic flights last between six and fourteen hours,
depending on your origination and destination. This particular flight was
(39:30):
somewhere in the neighborhood of eight and a half to
nine hours. On a large commercial flight, you have to
have two regardless. Yeah, so a captain and a first
officer or co pilot. If it's longer than eight hours,
typically a third pilot is going to be required, and
(39:51):
more than that if they extend even longer. So you know,
if it's a fourteen hour flight, they might require four pilots. Depends.
It ranges a little bit between airlines. They have their
own stipulations, but basically, most regulatory authorities, according to simpleflying
(40:15):
dot com worldwide, limit pilots from actively flying the airplane
for more than eight hours in a twelve to fourteen
hour work shift. So if it's a fourteen hour flight,
you can't fly more than eight of those, so you
would definitely need a third pilot.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah, yeah, And then of course American law, we have
regulations about sleep, particularly like they have to sleep before they.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Can come back, right, yeah, so that can cause them.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Which is always a fun rabbit hole to fall down
on YouTube is to see like what the sleeping accommodations
are pilots on long haul flights because they're like hidden
but really nice but really yeah, really.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Nice as they should be, y, yes, please sleep exactly.
What's also funny is to know how often your delays
in your airports are actually about cruise meeting the limit, yeah,
and then having to yeah yeah, be refreshed and remember, yeah,
changed out and whatever.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Now that said they had Alan as another pilot. Yeah,
Alan didn't have the required qualification, yeah, to make a
transatlantic flight. He was on the plane as the pilot.
But so what are those requirements do you have any India?
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I mean for them for that aircraft and France?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
I don't know, right, but you know, yeah, my guess
is that guy was a pilot enough that should they
need a meet probably.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah, they're like eight and a half hours, we can
do this.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
I mean it's a yeah, yeah, I mean straight it's
a more straightforward situation right there, exactly than other things.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
The pilot should have a passport, which makes sense. Oh yeah, okay,
and a pilot certification, but they should also be English
proficient endorsement because correct there, that's going to be your
general like most commonly spoken language.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
That's air traffic control, Yeah, is in English?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Right. You need to have a medical certificate and a
restricted Radio telephone operators permit, which I did not know.
So he was lacking one of those things. Who knows.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Okay, well we don't know which one.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Oh, it did not say. And you know, since he's
in detention in well in house arrest and the Dominican Republic. Yeah,
as yet he's still there.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
His English wasn't great. No, he said a couple of things. Uh,
maybe that's what he's lacking.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Maybe. So Alan Aflow owns the plane, yes, and he
has a double degree as an optician and hearing aid
consultant and opened his first optical store in nineteen seventy
two and now has many franchises, mostly in Europe. But
(43:15):
he's the owner of the plane and then his his
eyewear business and hearing a business is called chinchin, which
is means cheers like chinchin, Yeah, like you do that
when you're clinking glasses. And then it took me a
minute to realize the sniff sniff, which was in the
(43:36):
first episode, was a joke, like somebody found out that
he owned the plane and they were like, oh yeah,
he's chinchin and sniff sniff o g. It was a joke,
and it took me a minute to get it.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yeah, because it yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
A very dry sense of humor, y and it didn't
come And this is maybe where the voiceover didn't do
us any favors. Yes, I didn't get that it was
a joke at first. I'm like, why would they do that?
Why would they have an advertisement with sniff sniff and
have white stuff on the person's nose? What? What? I
didn't know it was a joke.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
It was a joke.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
I mean, you understand, like they're making fun of him
for the drugs.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
But yes, okay, now, yeah, because we didn't have a
base of knowledge for the joke.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
To like, right exactly because chin chin not a thing here.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
No, that's not a thing here. No, but might be now,
who knows, at least at least in our households.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
That's right. Our confiscated substances burned every Thursday, and the
Dominican Republican don't know. So somebody mentions that reporters are
often invited to the Thursday burnings, so I looked it up.
So they do have a law in the Dominican Republic
(45:00):
that says that confiscated drugs must be destroyed after they
have been tested for their quality and degree of purity. Okay,
so they do want some testing done before they destroy them.
It's not in the law that it has to happen
on Thursdays, though. There are many YouTube videos and accounts
(45:26):
of reporters being invited to burnings on Thursdays, and the
YouTube videos always occur on a Thursday, so it may
depend on the quantity that they currently have needing to
be destroyed. They might not need to do it every Thursday.
They might not only do it on Thursdays if they
(45:47):
have too much, but Thursday generally seems to be.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Joug burning day. Yeah, okay, I mean whatever.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
All of the sources that we use to inform our
discussion here on Killer Fund Podcast can be found on
our social media. Join us on Facebook at Killer Fund Podcast,
exploring the intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find
us on Twitter at Killer Funpod. Or you can send
us an email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com and
(46:21):
I'd be happy to share a link to whatever information
you're looking for. We love to hear from you. You
might learn a little something too, all right, psychology break, yes, okay,
so you'll have to let me know if you have
other things that you'd like to talk about. Guess is
just why I came back. So the director of the
Dominican National Drug Council, General Rosato Mateo, basically said, every
(46:48):
accusation is a confession.
Speaker 2 (46:51):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Yeah, Because you know, you point one finger and four
fingers point back at you, I'd be rolling.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
He didn't point he made a gun. Yes, he made
a gun.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
And I'm like, well, that's how is that fourth finger
pointing back at you? That one's pointing at the sky,
because the saying is actually three yes, like well or
three point back at you. Yes, you have three fingers.
But he didn't. He put the thumb up like a gun.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, and he said it was a gun.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
And then it made the point a little like, oh,
now there's a whole other meaning here because you're saying
you're saying, though, oh, if I accuse you, I'm accusing me,
which is supposed to be a humility kind of statement, right, right,
But also he was like, if I had a gun
and I pointed it at you.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Uh huh I have, I'd have three fingers pointing back
at me. I'm like, boy, that's not threatening at all.
Yeah exactly, I mean it was super threatening. And also
like I've also.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Left because he struggled to explain it.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yes, and then at some point he had to have
either realized, oh, but a gun is still pointing at you.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
That didn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Uhha, my English is not working he or then he
kept just trying to go down the Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:13):
I just I laughed. I laughed heartedly.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
I did too. But doctor Jennifer Kunst in psychology today
back from twenty eleven, but I figured the saying's still there.
She's kind of like, yes, like this is an important
thing to remember that maybe we can't accept something painful
within ourselves, so we accuse others of doing it because
(48:41):
we don't want those bad things to apply to us.
She said that it's the psychoanalytic term is projective identification.
She's like, I call it shame relocation. I'm like, well,
there you go, and it seems like it should be
really like humble, and yet all he did was make
himself look way more suspicious.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
He looked way more suspicious. It didn't land, No, it
didn't land.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
He was like, he's trying to say, why would I
accuse you when that really is pointing back at myself
and or my accusers are really just projecting onto us.
But I'm like, but.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Also, it's his job to literally charge people with crime.
Uh huh, So he has to accuse people, right, And
the question was not a who do you think you
are a kind of question, or it wasn't in response
to like judging someone else, which is usually how people
use the phrase like is to say that when you judge,
(49:44):
if you point your finger at somebody else to judge,
you've got three more pointing back at you, right, that
because you can be judged. Right, it's not about literal
like determining crime. And he has to accuse people, and
he to do that, and I hope that he doesn't
have three fingers fighting back at him.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
I mean, that's it seems like very corrupt. But that's
exactly what I'm thinking.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
I'm like, he's he's just admitting to corruption.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yes, it is a little bit.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
I mean, because why would you even bring that saying
up when your job is to accuse people of wrongdoing,
hopefully with evidence.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
Right, unless it's a whole other meaning layer of him
bringing it up so you can point the fictitious gun
and then remind the guy at the same time I'm
in charge of it.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah, I don't know. So it felt felt weird.
Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yeah, I mean people project Freudian ter right to project
yell onto other people.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
But we definitely do this.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
We definitely do this this whole like because we're already
primed with the way that we think about it, right,
you know.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Well, And I just always find it interesting when you
hear someone, often in politics, accuse somebody of something heinous
and then like fifteen minutes later it's revealed that they
have actually done that heinous thing. Yeah, I'm like, oh, well,
it's just so project a little harder. Maybe we'll see
(51:14):
it on the moon. I mean, That's how I felt
about this guy, is like, it sounds like you're just
admitting to corruption.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, or threatening the documentary.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Don't make us look bad. Oh yeah, geez, they're not
going to go there for vacation. Probably not.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
I should should hope not no.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
And then the Dominican Secretary of State said of the pilots,
even criminals can appear to be good people, and I
was like, fair, But also criminals tend to think of
themselves as good people.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
A lot of them do right.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Doctor Stanton's same now wrote a article for Psychology Today,
the criminal views himself as a good person. Perhaps the
most surprising discovery in my early years of trying to
understand the criminal mind was that, without exception, offenders regard
themselves as good human beings. No matter how long their
trail of carnage, no matter what suffering they caused others,
(52:14):
every one of them retained the view that he was
a good person. Nearly all affirm that there are others
who do terrible things that they would never do, and
those people are criminals. I was like, oh yeah. The
capacity to experience remorse supports this view of inner goodness.
I recall a man who broke into a woman's home
(52:36):
and made off with jewelry and priceless heirlooms. When he
learned the victim was suffering from terminal illness, he returned
everything he stole. The remorse he felt from this one
situation bolstered his view of how compassionate a person he was,
It did not deter him from other break ins. It
just like, okay, I mean, I guess in order to survive,
(53:00):
you've got to have this idea that you're not really
a bad person, You're just a person who is in
a bad situation.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Oh well, this is called fundamental attribution error.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Okay, Okay, So like this, Yes, we do that, and
it's not altogether wrong. But under the umbrella of this
fundamental attribution error, there's a couple of things we tend
to do when we do something bad or we fail
or whatever. We tend to look at our situation right,
(53:33):
and we can see all the ways that the situation
set us up for failure and so that it's not
really all our fault.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Or our fault at all.
Speaker 3 (53:42):
Right, Okay, so we're really good at that as a person,
But we also have this self serving bias that makes
us spin the story so that we personally our character
like who we are, comes out looking good.
Speaker 2 (53:54):
Often that it is facilitated by blaming the situations around us. Right.
Speaker 3 (54:00):
We also, though, however, tend to when we look at
somebody else's failure.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
And bad choices.
Speaker 3 (54:06):
Is we tend to blame them their character and who
they are and fail to notice the situation that they
found themselves in and how all the many ways that
the situation might influence. So we just we overestimate our own,
we underestimate others. But the truth is situations influence us.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
Well absolutely, But if you the other guy also maybe
was in a situation that forced their hand to make
a poor choice, right right, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:40):
Well I'm just saying we underestimate that to be true,
right exactly.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
Yeah, Like people fail to recognize that, oh, we can
push this little old lady over, Well you were being
chased by a dog and you didn't really mean to
push the little old lady over, But you don't see that.
You just see that she pushed this person pushed a
little old lady over.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
Right, Like we just say, well, they're just a bad person.
If they had more character, they would have or whatever. Yeah,
we're not really good about that, you know. And so yeah,
and so it's that's the error that we make when
we when we do this and we blame the situation.
Speaker 2 (55:14):
So as a criminal might do they understand all of.
Speaker 3 (55:17):
The many many ways that has kind of come together
to make them who they are. In the moments, they
might even see little progresses like hey, it wasn't that
I didn't hurt anybody this time, Like I'm getting better, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
You know, like I'm not.
Speaker 1 (55:32):
I didn't stab anybody when I broke into that house, right, Like,
I mean, nobody was home, but I still didn't stop anybody.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
I waited till they left, you know.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
I mean, like a person can see all the many
ways that like they aren't as bad as they could be,
or choices they've made. But you know, yeah, and obviously
when you're in that kind of extreme area of being
a criminal, like it's a little.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
It's a little hard.
Speaker 3 (56:00):
But like if we think about it in the regular world, right, yeah,
like you're working with a colleague, a friend, or you know,
a spouse. Whatever the small progresses we make, we can
we know we're trying really hard to make things better,
and we celebrate our tiny little progresses, and we know
all the things that go into our attitudes and how
(56:22):
we may or may not handle a stress well or not.
But the but it's likely that the other person in
the relationship probably only sees that you don't handle stress well.
You don't choose to honor me, you choose to treat
me poorly.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:37):
Yeah, so that's you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
Yeah, And so when we think about it that way,
it's kind of like, oh, I see what we do there,
like yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
But you know, yeah, I'm sure these guys look at it.
Why not that bad? I just flew the plane.
Speaker 3 (56:50):
Relative morality, man, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Real life business aviation, it's small and big business. Business
aviation or general aviation, depending on where you are in
the world, is what they call it. It's any flight
that's not conducted by the military or like a scheduled
commercial airline. Okay, So any type of airplane or helicopter.
(57:23):
So when you have helicopters up surveying rush hour traffic,
that is considered business aviation.
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (57:32):
Businesses of all sizes use it. Entrepreneurs, Fortune five hundred
companies all the way down to nonprofits of all sizes
for whatever reason might utilize this at least occasionally. It
does tend to be very safe and secure. They do
have a very high standard, at least in the US
(57:55):
for how these jets run. They have special awards that
they give when there's no errors in flying and like
the goal is to get to you know, twenty years,
fifty years, seventy five years of no incidents. Right, it's
an impetus to earn these so that you can by
(58:19):
having good upkeep of your equipment and say it following
the rules very carefully to make sure that everybody's really safe.
This particular kind of aviation contributes about one hundred and
fifty billion dollars to the economy each year a lot,
a lot, a lot, and positively contributes to our nation's
(58:43):
balance of trade and creates about one point one million
jobs in the US a lot.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
It's such a big, big industry. Yeah, and I'm not
at all a part.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Of it, very mad about that. So Europe does have
a growing appetite for cocaine and other illicit drugs, and
twenty thirteen was kind of on the leading edge of this.
It really started ramping up about this time of the
trafficking between Latin America and Europe. They didn't talk about
(59:16):
the intermediaries in this because they were only talking about
the flight, but basically they have these criminal networks where
they have people moving it from Ecuador, Colombia to the
Dominican Republic so that it can get on boats and
planes to go to Europe. The Dominican Republic is the
(59:38):
closest coast to the South America, to Colombia. In South
America to get to a it's basically a major hub, right,
which is Yeah.
Speaker 3 (59:52):
I mean that's kind of sad, but you think about
the year, yeah, like twenty thirteen. That makes sense though,
because the giant recession hit for the bubble burst right
in like the eight nine time frame, and then everybody
here got too poor to buy cocaine, so they had
(01:00:13):
to export into Europe.
Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
As of twenty twenty one, Europe accounted for about twenty
one percent of all cocaine users globally.
Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Still, wow, that is like.
Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
The UK is the second highest cocaine usage in the world.
Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I don't know why that tracks, but it just does
no offense. But there's like a it's almost a comical
view of it that I have, Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yep. It really exploded in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen as
far as the demand went, and a lot of it
goes through Ecuador as well, so they understand that there's
the supply chain that needs to be disrupted. Yeah, in
order for this not to make it to its eventual location. However,
(01:01:06):
if the demand is there, there will be a reason
to get it to those locations. So simply disrupting the
supply side is never going to be enough. No, they
have to also figure out why people are using and
help them not use.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Yeah, that's hard, right, it's hard, gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Because it requires a lot of our societies and just
in ways that very few societies are willing to step up.
And then we mentioned Almago the magician. I'm like, why
is this dude just like admitting crime on this documentary.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
Because this is crime.
Speaker 3 (01:01:50):
He's already paid his debt to right, He's already been
to prison and gotten out for this.
Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yes, he went on. He went into a in twenty
fifteen because of the French Connection, the golden age of
the French Connection. He was part of it. And so
now they call it the Grandpa Connection, the Pappy connection
because all of the people involved in that, including Lorent
(01:02:19):
Fiaconi il Mago, they're in there. They were in their
seventies and twenty fifteen. Yeah, right, like they're finally getting
caught for this stuff. He wrote a book about his.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yeah, which I'm putting on my book list.
Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
By the way, oh, I mean later on it and
I don't know if it's in this episode or not, honestly,
but but he's talking about one of the other guys
going to prison and how he.
Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Talked to them.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
He said he didn't do f bed basically for his
for a first time or I was.
Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Like, yeah, that's such a compliment.
Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
I mean they ended up in this trial, and I mean, yeah,
he's a he can just admit it now, he can.
That's how that's how he can be in this documentary.
It's kind of know, we got paid to me in
this documentary. He totally didn't do anything for free.
Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
No, as he should not.
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
He is an expert, that's right, all right. Last little
silly thing. On a lighter note, though, we've made a
lot of light out of this, like potentially dark. So
one of the transition scenes, like in the first episode,
(01:03:33):
I noticed there was like a loading screen like a
website right right, And I laughed out loud because my
son just told me what that thing is called.
Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Oh, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
There's not the loading No, it's not spinny wheel of death.
Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I think I've referred to Yes, often, that's also what
I call it because it means your website's not gonna load.
It's called a throbber. No y and I laughed so
hard and loud. We were going to your event on Saturday,
and cade bus out with us in the car. It's
(01:04:12):
called a.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Throbber, and I'm like, no, it's not.
Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
I'm laughing. I'm like, it sounds so inappropriate.
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
It is completely inappropriate.
Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Well, I'm telling you somebody was trying to load an
adult website when they named this.
Speaker 6 (01:04:30):
Yes, but I mean have so many questions who named this.
I have no idea when didn't get its name. I
couldn't have been like the original, like.
Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
The early use of a throbber curd in a web
browser in the early nineties. Oh my god, that's when
you saw it. Yep, there was the Netscape logo. Oh chep.
Nets Cap had a throbber. Let's see the animal depicted
the end expanding and contracting, hence the name the rob that's.
Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
Right, because it used to like breathe. That is so hysterical.
Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
So I didn't. I had not read all the way down.
I was like, oh, that's funny, that's what it's called.
And then oh, yeah, there you go. I'm glad. I
printed out that information.
Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
The Robber Robber.
Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Next time we have something really available. Oh yeah, and
kind of experimental. It's a quote unquote feature length film,
but it's sixty two minutes. It's not a huge time commitments.
And it's called Milk and Cereal and a couple of
YouTubers made it. Think like think the Blair Witch Project,
(01:05:50):
but it's that similar style of footage. They made it
for eight hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Good job, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
The only thing they did was buy a cam and
pay one actor. They had one professional actor and they
paid that guy, and everybody else was like, we're going
to do this because it's fun. And then they released
it to their own YouTube channel where they do sketch comedy.
So it kind of has this feeling like it's something
you should be watching. It feels like there are other
(01:06:20):
videos okay, which I think is really fun. That's awesome,
But I'm looking forward to Milk and Cereal s E.
R I A L. And it's available to everyone because
it's free on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Kay, yes, join us for a little a little fun.
Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Yeah, it has a cult classic feeling to me.
Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Sure, Yeah, I mean it will see like only came
out late last year, so but it's like it's got
that almost ilicit so I hope will be fun. All
the reviews I've seen of it where people who like
this is actually legitimately pretty entertaining, okay, awesome, So here's
hoping they're not just like friends of those YouTubers.
Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
I hope not, but if they are, we will destroy them.
Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Also fair thank you so much for listening. We know
we don't come on the radio, that you make a
choice to listen to us, and we really appreciate it.
Rate and review wherever you get shows because it does
help us get found. Tell a friend is more fun
when you can listen with a friend, And until next time,
be safe, be kind, and wash your hands.
Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
The irony of me sniffing
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