December 5, 2024 • 60 mins
The semi-true adaptation of the story of Reena Virk in Under the Bridge is both baffling and heartbreaking. From well-meaning but controlling parents to cruel teens who idolize mob bosses, there is a ton to parse in this limited series.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome back to Killer Fund, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christy and
I'm Jackie and today today we are talking about the
Hulu limited series Under the Bridge only the first episode,
number one, looking class. Yes, and oh my gosh, middle
school just is just the worst. Oh gosh, it's just
(00:33):
the worst.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I mean, especially in the nineties.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I mean, I mean I thought maybe middle school had
gotten worse because of phones and things like that, being
able to capture all of those embarrassing moments, and I.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Actually maybe reliving it watching this show.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Who was like, oh, maybe it's not worse.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Maybe it's not maybe it's not worse bananas.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I mean, it's just it's bad. I mean, And of
course these are all couple young people who are really
having a hard time with life, but also also middle
school is the worst. Worst is the worst.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Okay, tell me how how much did you sing the
song as you watched the show?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh? All of it? Okay, yeah, all the whole I
mean constantly. It's in my head now, yes, yeah, oh yes.
My husband was like, I forgot what you're covering this week,
and I told him and he was like immediately launched
himTo Red Hot Chili Peppers. So funny.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I was like, I've been assaulted by the nineties a
lot recently. So we have a really cool coffee shop
in town. By the way, I'm gonna shout them out
folklore all nineties ninety It's a super cool place. And
then the show and then nineties playlist was somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It was like a lot of like, Wow, you're peeking
into my high school bedroom right now.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh my gosh. So if you're if you want a
little more of that. Oh. The first season of Yellow Jackets,
which is a show on Showtime, was released to Netflix. Yay,
all right. The cast, Oh, it's got a fantastic cast,
really truly. So. Lily Gladstone is cam Bentlin, the only
(02:19):
police officer of color in the Victoria Police Department. Of course,
she looks super familiar because she was in Killers of
the Flower Moon. I've also seen her in Billions and
Reservation Dogs. She's great. Fredrika Gupta is Rena Verk, the
a fictionalized version of the real girl. Okay. Rena Verk
(02:43):
fourteen year old Canadian Indian girl living in Victoria, British Columbia,
she's mostly done short films, and it's hard with these
younger actors. They don't have a lot of work a
lot of the time, so there's not a lot for
us to recognize them from.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Then.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Riley Kannaff is Rebecca Godfrey, the fictionalized version of the
author Rebecca Godfrey, who wrote the book Under the Bridge.
She got her big break in The Good Doctor opposite
Orlando Bloom in twenty ten. She's been in Mad Max
Fury Road, The Girlfriend Experience, Jason Daisy Jones, and The
(03:21):
Six Lots of Good Stuff. And then I'm just gonna
run through these people. So Chloe Guidri is Josephine Bell,
the leader of the CMC. Ayana Goodfellow is Dusty, friend
of Reina, and CMC member is eg plays Kelly Eller.
CMC member Archie Punjabi is Suman Verk, Rena's mother. Ezra
(03:47):
farok Khan is Mengji Verk, father of Reina. So there's
lots of great people. It's good. It's good. Yeah, they're good.
I mean they're good. It's good.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
They're crushing the nineties.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I mean they're yes, absolutely, I mean it's like nothing, no.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
No, I mean, so I was like, oh my god,
look at they're in the bedroom at the home, right
the home, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh, they did it.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
They made it like totally ungrammable, Like it's totally not
something you would see. It's not filter, it's a mass,
it's not colorful, it's not well designed, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Like exactly what a nineties bedroom looks like. Well done, guys, yeah,
well done. All right recap. It's hard to find your
place in the world, especially when you're different from those
around you. Rina is Indian in predominantly white Canada. Her
family are very observant Jehovah's witness, and this fourteen year
(04:50):
old just feels like she doesn't fit in anywhere. So
when she finds even the most minimal acceptance in a
group of troubled girls, she holds on for dear life.
But these girls, at least some of them, are not
only troubled but cruel, and it's understandable how they became
quote unquote mean girls, but it makes for contentious and
(05:15):
drama filled situations. So trying to stand up for herself
backfires in a way that one might expect in an
actual gang. The CMC is a pseudo gang. They're they're
verging on gang.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, they're trying there.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I don't know how.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Uh, I don't know if it's a definition.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I don't know if it does either.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But there doesn't matter when they see it that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Way, I mean it doesn't, right, Yeah, and Rena goes missing.
So thoughts thoughts, Oh, I had some thoughts. You have
some thoughts, I know. Oh yeah, so Rena's uncle Roger,
he buys his niece the latest album by the Notorious Big,
and I have to say, there is nothing quite like
having the physical media in your hand. Streaming is so convenient,
(06:05):
Yes it is. However, the going and the buying and
the unwrapping and the opening of the physical thing and
putting that CD physically in, I mean it was very
nostalgic for me.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know why that doesn't hit
for me.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Really, I don't care if it was a tape. Maybe.
I don't know why that one hits more than the CDs.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Okay, I don't know why. Oh. I mean I did
a lot of hunting where I'd go to like specialty,
little tiny record stores when those more existed and didn't
just sell vinyl you know where you go and buy
the CDs and I'd be like yeah, and I would
be like, hey, this place is weird. Let me sing
(06:49):
you the song and see if you can help me
figure out what it is. Yeah, right, exactly. Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think I spent so much time taping the radio.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I had mixtapes a lot even and we had CDs though,
because that you couldn't you still had to tape the
radio if you want to do that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I mean, it's nostalgic, but isn't a hit like that?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But I get it. I get it. It hit it for me. Yeah,
I was like, yeah, okay. So Raj thought Rena was
done with the Seven Oaks girls, the Seven Oaks being
a foster group home, and I'm like, he's on the
verge of talking bad about them, and I'm like, dude,
clicks are like boyfriends. You have to be real, real
(07:33):
careful how much you say about them because even when
they become ex boyfriends or x clicks, they have a
way of coming back. You don't want to have said
the bad thing.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
No, no, but he went to bridge too far, he did.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I felt bad for him because he was very well meaning.
He really was. Yeah, And speaking of well meaning, Raj
tells Rena to focus on her family, and Rena goes
to get out of the car while it's still moving,
and I'm like, Okay, that's probably good advice. And yet, like,
this is so much moxie for her to like open
the door, it's a moving and she made sure to
(08:09):
get the CD out of the CD player before she
got out of the car. I'm like, I know, I
have to admire that she's a fourteen year old girl
behaving in a ridiculous manner that is dangerous, and still
I admire her moxie. Yeah. So, uh the ultimate insult
(08:30):
calling somebody fat and I was like, oh that hit
two the nineties when everybody was obsessed with thenness.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
That hit especially in the dance world.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah. Yeah, So Rebecca the author her family home.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Oh my god, can we talk about her family home?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Oh my god? It was gorgeous and it had the
most beautiful view. I just I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I mean, I do anything to repair a relationship with
the parents if I live.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
There, and that sounds terrible. I'll do anything to be
honest in that house. But I get it. I get it,
you have to go. It's the town.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You can't stay in the house all the time. But
also I probably could figure out a way.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I mean, especially now in work for a hall. Now,
like you could teach all your classes one was so
beautiful as you look out over the beautiful Yeah, I could.
It was gorgeous, I really could. So I got a
bad feeling when Rena gave her name to Connor, when
(09:29):
she called him on the phone and she was spreading
rumors about Joe all over the place, and I was like,
all the other calls were anonymous. Why did you give
your name? Because then she kind of asked him out,
So I get it. She's like, I want her to
know that I could potent, I would be willing to
take her boyfriend. But also like there was a reason
(09:51):
why all the others were not.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, if you don't, if you're gonna, if you're.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Gonna get the number from her book and call you,
just don't spread the rumor there, right, Just say oh,
she gave it to me and then ask him out.
Just do the thing, right, Because I really didn't get that.
I got that she that Josephine has the crush on it, right,
I don't know that they were together, but he was
definitely their dealer.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Uh huh oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
But then Reena liked him, but Rena had no connection to.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Him, right, I don't know that she even really liked
him liked him. She just knew that Joe liked him,
and she admired Yah and feared Joe and so power moves. Yeah,
I like power mood, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah he is adorable, though, this boy is adorable.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Little dimples yeah again killing the nineties the long hair yea.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So, Rena realized she'd been invited to a party, not
because Joe and her crew respected her for her dealings,
but more nefarious reason. And I guess calling the police
from the payphone would have been gotten her labeled as
a rat. But that did not stop me from yelling
at the TV.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Call nine one one, yeah, like I mean seriously, like call.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Just call the police, just call. You don't want to
be a rat, but you also, yeah, don't want to
go missing, which is what happened. Yeah, yeah, because she
called someone. Uh huh, we don't know who. She called
her parents and told them that she would be home.
Yeah was it?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Do we know for sure?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I was trying to connect that dot later and yeah,
couldn't quite.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Can She called home to tell them she would was home, okay, right,
and then she didn't show up at home.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Right, okay, okay, so it was Yeah, when they came
to the police station later, they say she called, They say, yes,
she would be home. It wasn't okay. I was like, oh,
I couldn't remember when they were talking. I couldn't couldn't
figure out whether they were saying that it's been three
days and she left, or that she had called, or
I think I mixed it up later.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
In my mind. Okay, yes, yeah, it was okay, it
was a whole situation.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, okay, So yeah, you're right, though, she should have
called that on one and just left it on the
hook or like left it hanging. H But see, she
didn't think, well, teenagers at that age, I think they're invincible,
or even if they're scared, they don't actually think somethings
gonna happen to them.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
She didn't really think that her quote unquote friends were
going to do anything really bad to her, like, oh,
maybe she get jumped and like have a black eye.
Well and yeah, spoiler alert, well no more. I have
only watched episode one, I know, and you have not
done all of the research. So like after I watched
(12:44):
episode one and I do all the research very small,
but see, I have also watched the rest. I watched
the last one.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
If you have watched episode one, it ends with her
the spoiler alert alive.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, that's where it ends.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But you know, because this is series and this is
a book that yeah, be done in that way.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
But I'm just right and so one yeah, so can
the police officer asked her dad to put in a
good word for her for a job transfer, and he
says it's better if she earns it, and I'm like,
that might be true, but she's an indigenous woman in
law enforcement. She can use all of the help that
(13:23):
she can get. Yeah, I know, dude, just do it.
He just didn't want her to leave. He loves her around.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's really kind of it's very selfish that he just
wants her there, right, But you.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Know, Rena goes missing and the police don't want help,
and I was like, is this one good thing to
come out of social media? Is that like you can
go report this to the police and then just put
the flyer out there yourself, like help me look for
ye And then I was absolutely sick hearing the police
refer to the lost and vulnerable girls as bisposable single uslters.
(14:02):
I was like, it's so, it's disgusting. It was disgusting,
then it is disgusting now. So we know that the
story was adapted from a book, yes, by Rebecca Godfrey
of the same name Under the Bridge, but it was
(14:23):
not adapted from just one book.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh interesting, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So they also optioned Rena's father's book called Rena a
Father's Story and incorporated details from his book into this,
And he spent time with the showrunners helping to get
some of this stuff and I'm more right. Yeah, one
of the showrunners, Samir Meta, we optioned men Jete's book.
(14:51):
I spoke to man Jeet myself just to get personal
stories he was willing to give. Beyond that, a big
part of it was just execating personal experience being a
first generation American myself from an Indian family. So we'll
talk about some of the ways that it was fictionalized later.
It was basically shot on location, yeah, so was mostly
(15:14):
shot in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is very close to Sanwich.
Where all of these events took place. The showrunner spoke
about how filming really added depth to the story, just
shooting the show so close to where it happened in Vancouver.
Almost every week we encountered somebody who had a personal connection.
It imbued the story with a local perspective because we
(15:37):
were surrounded by people who lived this. Wow. I was like, Oh,
that's cool and also heartbreaking. Yeah yeah, so resources. So
Rina's parents, after the events happened, really got involved in
anti bullying organizations. So one of those is the Committee
(16:00):
for Children the cf Children dot org, and they have
a lot of resources available to parents and kids and
educators to help identify bullying when it's happening, how to
prevent it, how to help people recover. That's great, yeah,
and stop bullying. Dot gov has lots of information. If
(16:22):
somebody is an immediate harm, of course, call nine one one.
Someone's feeling suicidal or hopeless or any of that sort
of like very sort of feelings that go hand in
hand with being bullied, or even bullies themselves will often
feel these things. Yes, you can call nine eight eight,
(16:44):
And there's the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline which you can
call her text. I mean these are available for you
so you can get help. If you notice that somebody
you love is acting differently, you know it would be
worth getting counselor or mental health professional involved. And you know,
if your child is being bullied at school, start with
(17:05):
their teacher, the school counselor the principal, the superintendent, and
the state Department of Education for as long as that
exists in the United States, you know, So that's an
avenue available for you, you know, but there are people
that you can go and like escalate it as needed
as far as it's needed. And then to help kids
(17:29):
kind of recovers or prevent them from being bullied so
or prevent them from becoming beliefs, getting them involved is
really helpful. And there's this great organization called Kuwanas and
they are a non denominational, not a religiously affiliated. They
(17:50):
do tend to meet at churches often, but they are
not supposed to be denominationally affiliated or religious in any way.
And so you have the adult groups or adults who
want to support children and help them become good involved
members of their community. And then they have Kawanis Kids,
(18:12):
which it's a leadership program you can encourage them to be,
you know, civically minded and good members of their community.
And these sorts of activities can help them feel accepted
and valuable in a lot of ways, so they don't
become bullies, and they it can help them feel better
(18:33):
after being bullied to know that they're really so valuable
in their community. So it's good. Those are resources.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Good thing today, good resources. So here's how it works.
Christy rex her search history.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Hey, in essay, we promise it's nothing more nefarious than
a podcast to find out what's true some of the
psychological motivations behind the characters actions and real life applications
that really to our topic. I have no idea what
Christy decided to look up could be the same thing
that captured my curiosity or something I never thought of.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Is it true? Okay? So ish? Yeah, much of the
overarching story has true elements, I mean, and they do
a really good job at the beginning of having a
title card. Yes, it says that things have been added, things,
situations have been fictionalized, and things have been added that
(19:33):
did not happen to help move the story along. So
like the essence of it is true. I feel like
this is a little like baby Reindeer.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because it really brings up
that philosophical ideal that you know, when you tell a story,
it can be true and not factual, right, And that's hard.
That's why we tell stories because there is something true
about them, but truth doesn't mean historically documented, right and
(20:06):
because and so this is one of those times.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, for sure. So Cam the police officer who is
First Nations person is not a real not a real person,
not a real character. She is an amalgamation of law enforcement.
She was there to serve the story, to move it along.
(20:29):
We see a whole lot of Rebecca Godfrey in this.
She was not like she talked to these kids, but
not while the trials and stuff were going on. I mean,
all her involvement in this was very much after the fact.
And that was actually some of the criticism I read
was just how centralized they made her to this particular story.
(20:51):
And I understand that she was really just a vehicle.
She was also involved in helping the creation of this,
but she passed away from lung cancer just a few
weeks before they started filming.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
That's so sad.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, so you know, maybe that was a little bit
of that may and of course she knew she was dying,
so you know that may have had a little impetus
in how they portrayed her in this particular story. Was
this was her la the last thing that she was
ever going to be really known for. Yeah, so yeah,
(21:28):
I mean it is hard.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
So I can see, like how how like even using
the author as a central character as an amalgamation of
like a lot of people who were driving the situation,
and how just putting it in the author's hands sort
of ties it up in a little bow, right, right
to make the story.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
While in giving her a relationship with Cam and having
that be sort of this that Yeah, like it's it's
a way to tie the story together again truth but
not fact.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Right exactly Like the two characters that are the most fictionalized, right,
or at least centralized and fictionalized, are drivers of the truth.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Right. Rina really was a kid who was bullied and
struggled to fit in. She you know, did smoke, She
did listen to East Coast hip hops. She did argue
with her parents. She did paint her fingernails to their discontent.
(22:31):
She was accused of spreading rumors she was accused of
stealing somebody's boyfriend. Yeah, I know, I know, Okay, I
have stupid You want to talk about thoughts?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I have thoughts about her parents.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Oh okay, save those because I have them in psychology
break perfect. H huh yeah, lovely. Yeah, she was invited
to join a party and was rutally attacked. It did
take a very long time for the legal process's wheels
to move in this situation. They did leave some things out.
(23:13):
According to screen Rant, that's where the idea that you know,
Rebecca was so central to this, to the show, and
she was not really central to the actual events. It
comes from Kelly Ellard, who we only see briefly. She's
like the close friend to Joe. Doesn't live at seven Oaks.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Okay, yeah, right said that.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, she did have a very disturbing pattern of violence
when she was young. She was confrontational towards teachers, explosive.
Her pattern of violence was so disruptive they were in
the process of transferring her to another school when all
of this went down. Joe really did ask for for
(24:03):
John Gotti's lawyer, So Notorious Big. This was the the
album she was so excited to get. Yeah, was it
out in nineteen ninety seven. Oh boy, that's hard. Yeah,
I was like, Jackie might actually she'll either have to
guess or just know this, oh absolutely or no way.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah. I feel like this album was out because.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
This is what year again, nineteen ninety seven? It was no,
it was November of ninety seven when.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
She si year okay, high school.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Okay, dang, that's fine, I can why, but I kind
of thought nineteen ninety six. Okay, But then but then
I was kind of like, okay, so because it's hard
because the singles dropped before the albums dropped, and so
I feel like maybe I knew some things the album
(25:05):
might not dropped until later.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay. So actually the album is Life After Death right,
which is ironic because it came out in March of
nineteen ninety seven, so it had been out a while
before she got it. Okay, So that's kind of interesting.
But then when you watch later, you realize there was
(25:27):
stuff going on in her life, and it makes sense
why she would get this album that was kind of
sought after in her group, in her peers until November,
because because of stuff. It took the uncle like buying
it for her right and trying to ingratiate himself with
her litle to pe right.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Exactly, Yes, trying some positive reinforcement, go uncle.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Uh huh. Yeah. But Biggie's album Life After Death was
released six teen days after his murder.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, okay see, and that was the other part of it.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I was like, oh yeah, oh wait, wait wait wait
huh yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So it's interesting because you know it was already called
Life After Death. Yeah, I was. I mean, everything was printed,
everything was ready to go. They weren't like, oh we
got to change the name of this and print all. No,
it was already named that, and then he died immediately
before it. Yeah. And both of the songs that we
(26:29):
heard in this first episode are on that album. It
was a two disc set. They were not, however, the
first song. So when she puts that CD in a
car and it immediately starts playing going back to Cali,
that was actually the fourth track on the.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Second CD, it's like, how fast can you click it?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, exactly. And then the second song we heard was
kicking the Door, and that was track four on the
first CD first ing Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Disc one, Yeah, yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah. Affirmative action really did ramp up in the nineties.
But it was it a part of Canadian culture in
nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
No, but nothing. Okay.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
This is the one thing I will say is the
nineties they portrayed was very US nineties. And so I
did question, you know, because I was like, Okay, they're
on an island in Canada. I feel like it would
be a little different than what I experienced. So, like
when he says some things, it's hard because like the
guy who plays the dad also played like you know,
(27:34):
sec nav and ncis Oh, I see him as American law,
an American law.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Enforcem So he's typecast as law enforce a little bit, okay,
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
He's good though, And so I don't know. I was like, Okay,
I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Okay. Well, according to an old article from January ninety seven, No, yeah,
they there was a whole like International Women's Rights Action
Watch that talked about affirmative action. Now, affirmative action talked
about more than women. It was about minority is getting
(28:12):
people in the room. I've had to literally explain this
to my dad about why affirmative action isn't the boogeyman
that he seems to think it is. And I'm like,
he's like, well, if companies want to hire people, they
should be able to do that. I'm like, okay, but
if companies are going to hire diverse people, those diverse
(28:32):
people need to have the access to education and opportunities
to make them qualified to sit in those rooms.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, it's a I'm going to blame marketing for this,
uh huh stupid name. Yes, affirmative action means nothing and
says nothing right, And so this has been a problem
for like civil rights activists and be kids of all sorts,
is that they come up with a name they think
(29:05):
means something and it absolutely does not, and then they
use rhetoric that is that is far.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's not just preach into the choir.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's preaching to the people who bring donuts in the morning, right, Like,
they don't need the explanation.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And so these names and these this rhetoric they come.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Up with does nothing to help somebody who has no
idea what is happening. And that's another reason why psychologists
should be in every room.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Psychologists and marketing professionals need to be there.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, because guess what, like I mean, you just need
somebody like if you are advocating for something, if you're
trying to win something, you're trying to push agendas of
any kind.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Please consultant consultants and they will.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
They will provide for you a team of psychologists and marketing.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Uh huh, yes, that will help you actually achieve your goals. Yes, yes, anyway,
so I'm always action, thank you. It was around They
had this, a big talk about this at the International
Women's Rights Action Watch in January of nineteen ninety seven. However,
it was not called affirmative action in Canada. God, please
(30:16):
tell me it was better employment equity. Ah, well that
is better. It's it's not it doesn't roll off the
tongue other than its alliteration. Right, but so is affirmative action. Yeah,
but you know at least it's descriptive.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean our government office is actually called equal opportunity,
equal employment or yeah, equal employment no equal employment opportunity
eeo yeah right right yeah, like sorry, I had to
think through that.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Said that allowed.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Maybe ever it's always on forms yeah exactly, yeah right.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Like we're an equal opportunity employer, right, like you see
those right, that's actually better, right, the affirmative action, because
affirmative action is a.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Very academic term, right, like other academic terms that get maligned. Yes, anyway, Yes,
So Canada specifically targeted three groups of people, or actually
four groups of people, women, visible minorities, people with disabilities,
(31:22):
and what they called at the time Aboriginal people. So
First Nations people were particularly because not everyone who is
a First Nations person was automatically identifiable as a person
of color. And really, even then it only applied to
about ten percent of employers in Canada. Wow. So it's again,
(31:47):
it's a small thing that people are trying to do
to bring equity to the world, and yet it really
didn't affect that many people. H But it got a
lot of press, it did, Boy, it did anyway. So
the leader of the CMC, Joe the Crip mafia cartel,
(32:07):
just like the most fourteen year old ever thing. Yes,
it's a very fourteen year old I'm gonna be tough name.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yes, if you have to doodle it in your journal,
yeah you're not tough, right, Okay, I'm just gonna.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So Joe was obsessed with John Gotti and if she'd
gone to NYC, New York City with Rebecca in nineteen
ninety seven, could she have worked for John Gotti, Like
would that have been a possibility, I mean as a
mafia boss. No, I mean no, but like physic like
(32:44):
if she could have convinced him, was he was he
available to be convinced in ninety seven?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, not really, not really.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
She would have to get on the list to go
visit him in prison, like because he was in prison.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Him personally, his people were still there, but they were
still waning out as well.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Right that by that time, very much he was a
very powerful and dangerous crime boss in the United States.
He was called Teflon Dawn because he had went on
trial in the eighties and got away with a bunch
of stuff that they later found out was the reason
he got away with it was jury tampering, German's contact
(33:26):
and witness intimidation. So, you know, not a good guy,
the leader of the Gambino crime family. But in nineteen
ninety two he was convicted of five murders, conspiracy to
commit murder, racketeering, obstruction of justice, tax evasion, illegal gambling, extortion,
(33:46):
loan charging. And he went to prison without parole and
died there in two thousand and two. So that was
in nineteen ninety two. So from nineteen ninety two until
his death in two thousand and two, he was in prison. Yeah,
so probably she wasn't going to be not to work
for him. No, no, no, no. Joe tells Rena that
she knows Rena took her diary, and Rena simply replied
(34:12):
street rules. Right, what does street rules mean? According to dictionary?
Like to them?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
To them, it means I'm trying to be cool like
you were trying to be cool?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Means nothing basically, okay.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So it either means no rules apply, no rule, uh huh,
or it's an unwritten rule that she should already know.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Right yeah, right, that's the thing, like she is between you.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
You messed with me, I can mess with you that
street rules or street rules there are no rules, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I mean like and I mean when you play in basketball,
like pick up basketball and stuff like, there's these the
same kind of thing the street rules, Like is it
is it you have to bleed to have a foul,
you know, like no blood, no foul, right, like that
kind of thing. But it's also you know, like I
think about monopoly. Oh, I mean do we put money
on free parking?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
How people just win that?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Right? You know? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
No, I go buy the book rules. No straight rules
for Monopoly makes the game last a lot longer.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I need to find the actual The actual.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Rules make the game a normal game, right, and all
the extra things we do make it.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's why people blow up and flip tables.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Right, Yes, because you've got the extraneous ones. Actually Monopoly
side note Monopoly. Those rules that we all play by
are the ones that we're supposed to teach us that
landlords are bad yea, and the free market is actually
not a great way to run a society. And there's
(35:52):
another set of rules that now no longer get printed.
But you play with the exact same board that's much
more cooperative. Either you all win or you all lose. Yes,
there you go. You need to find those well, we
should find those rules. The men in our lives would
not like that.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
They want to get They wanted, they want to win.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
My husband always wins always.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
That's because he can control the dice.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
But I know it's really weird.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's a that's for another day.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
That's another day.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
November fourteenth, nineteen ninety seven, really was the day of
the party where Rena went missing. Okay, would they have
seen lights over the night? I don't know. I couldn't.
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I didn't know for sure if it was like the
actual day or not.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I was like, Oh, I'm like, this is where they
get to say based on a true story, because it
really was. It really there really was space junk from
an old Russian Rachet rocket that re entered the atmosphere
overnight in the late hours of November fourteenth into the
early hours of November fifteenth over the Pacific Ocean in
(37:01):
the coast of Washington. It fell safely into the ocean.
But they that really would have been the night? Yeah,
detail to get right. Yes, So Connor was reluctant to
let Cam, the police officer, into his house, not because
she was a cop and he was a drug dealer,
(37:23):
but because Cam was a cop and he had an
illegal exotic pet and iguana. Is it illegal to have
a pet iguana in Canada?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I think legal here, Okay, get a special permission to
have an iguana, like a certain types of.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Iguanas, okay. So according to the SPCA, the British Columbia
SPCA serval cats, iguanas and parrots are not included in
the provincial regulations. They'd call them an exotic pet anybody
according to their website. Now, I don't know in nineteen
(38:01):
ninety seven, I could not find the laws from nineteen
ninety seven. In order to have things like tigers, lions, monkeys, marmosets,
fenic foxes, caymans, cobras, poison arrow dart frogs, they're illegal
to have his pets, but you can get special permission
to have them for like zeus and things servals.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I'm glad they were exempt. Amazing cats.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Amazing cats. Yeah, the SPCA would not agree with you
because they say they suffer in captivity because they were
not included well provincial.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Maybe that's true.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
But the ones that we see on Instagram are from
families who are actually taken the injured ones, right, and they're
so week that's so cool, yeah, I mean, and these
are casts that would not survive in the wild. Right.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
But all of the sources that we use to inform
our discussion here on Killer Fund Podcast can be found
on our social media us on Facebook at Killer Fun Podcast,
exploring the intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find
us on Twitter at Killer Funpod, or you can send
us an email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com, and
(39:13):
I'd be happy to share a link to whatever information
you're looking for. We love to hear from you. You
might learn a little something too. Psychology break Oh good,
all right, So we're going to just touch on a
few little things here. So the family was deeply religious.
(39:33):
I wanted to know if there was research about it.
So in twenty seventeen there is an article in the
Journal for Child's Psychology and Psychiatry, and it's called Mixed
Blessings Parental Religiousness, Parenting and Child Adjustment, and Global Perspective.
(39:54):
They talked to almost twelve hundred families across religions, and
they found that parental warmth and rejection had consistent relationships
with parental religiousness and child outcomes depending on the informant.
So it was very mixed basically. But here is their conclusion.
(40:21):
Parents and children agree that parental religiousness is associated with
more controlling parenting and in turn increased child problem behaviors. However,
children see religiousness as related to parental rejection and parents
see religiousness as related to parental efficacy and warmth. So
(40:44):
the religious parents think they're actually warm and the children
see it as rejection. I just thought it was super
interesting to hear about that now, particularly Riena's mother Suman
was very religious, so I want to know if there
was research on that. There actually is more recent from
twenty twenty three, and this was from the psychological post
(41:09):
psychpost dot org. I didn't write down the name of
the oh actual psychpost dot org. Children of highly religious
mothers are more likely to internalize their problems. They had
these groups, and they broke them into four categories, highly religious,
(41:29):
moderately religious, agnostic, and atheist. So highly religious mothers had
children who had a higher risk of attention deficit disorder, depression,
obsessive compulsive disorder, and oppositional defiant disorder compared to the
children of agnostic mothers. However, being extreme turns out not great.
(41:53):
Children of atheist mothers had a higher risk of attention deficit,
hyperactivity disorder, and conduct disorder, but were less likely to
be bullies or unhappy with friends compared to agnostic mothers.
Very highly religious mothers tend to have children who really
internalized their anxiety and all their symptoms of self doubt,
(42:18):
and children of atheist parents or atheist mothers specifically had
a greater risk of externalizing their symptoms. So it turns
out being too invested in your religious perspective is detrimental
to your kids. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I didn't like her. No, I didn't like her.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
She was terrible, and the husband kept trying to tell her,
like back off, like this is not the hill we
want to die on, but she could not.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
She it was all about her.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
It was all about her. And that's the problem. That's
why it feels like rejection because it is.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Okay, I'm talking. Okay, so Cam's brother Scott, who's also
a police officer in the same precinct or whatever. Yeah,
dismissed Rajamanji reporting Marina missing despite the girl calling home
and saying she'd be there soon. All he said was
(43:20):
teenagers lie. He's not wrong, but should we look at
why teenagers lie? Because they do so. Newport Academy dot
Com has an article all about this and that teen
lying is very common, more common than many adults might think.
They looked at a study and found that peak dishonesty
(43:44):
occurs in adolescence. Yeah, and like that's just brain development,
Like that's part of it, and we tend to lie
less as we get older, barring mitigating circumstances or psychological disorders.
Why do they lie? Part of it is to find
(44:05):
their independence. Part of it is to cover up risky
behaviors that they know their parents aren't going to approve of.
They have poor impulse control, so they might just lie
to try and get away with stuff and see how
much they can get away with. So there's three types
(44:25):
of teen lying. Typically avoidance, steering parents away from topics
they don't want to talk about, omission, leaving out information
they know their parents will be interested in. And comission,
which is just flat out telling a falsehood. They do
it to get out of trouble because they don't want
(44:47):
to their parents to know they're doing something dangerous because
they think the rules are unfair. Check. It also might
be to protect others feelings. If they know their parents
aren't going to prove and it's going to hurt their
feelings to tell them the truth, they might just not
tell it. Yeah, they also want to be private. The
more teens lie, the more likely they are to have
(45:08):
it be a risk factor for alcohol consumption. Yeah, so
that's something to think about. But they did find in
this study that warm and trusting parent child relationships will
find a decrease in teens lying to their parents, and
(45:29):
that also decreased their likelihood that they would abuse alcohol.
So you know, don't be too extreme. Do have open
lines of communication? Of course they say that as teens,
But you have to start that when they're little. Yeah,
that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
You can't just start it then, No, uh huh, you can't.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
No, it really needs to be.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
It's hard because when they're little you have to both
be an open.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Warm, safe place for them to fall and just larious
and the disciplinary the biggest guard rail.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, and it is. It is not easy to No,
it is not. I would say you've done an excellent job.
Thank you. Ditto.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
We have amazing children.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
We do amazing children. I loved this quote from doctor
Nancy Darling. Good kids are trusted. The more they're trusted,
the more they will try to live up to that trust,
and the more trustworthy a person they will become. So
and they give suggestions in this article. If you want
to read it, please feel free. So Rebecca tells the
(46:35):
Seven Oaks girls she lies to be able to get
in there to talk to them. She's not a good
example of adults who lie less, but she said you
can get away with a lot more when people don't
take you seriously. And at first I was like, yeah,
let other people's assumptions work for you. And then I realized, oh,
that is absolutely manipulation. Thinking about it a little more so, yeah,
(47:05):
And it's a lot of the same things as the teens, right.
George K. Simon, who's a psychologist, says that successful manipulation
involves concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors and being affable, which
I'm like, oh, that's very much Rebecca, knowing the psychological
(47:25):
vulnerabilities of the victim to determine which tastics are most
likely to be effective, and having a sufficient level of
ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the
victim if necessary. I'm like, oh, check, check, check. So
it was interesting just to realize that this thing that
(47:47):
at first I thought was kind of I can see
why the fourteen year olds thought.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
It was badass, right, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Let them underestimate you and use it to your advantage exactly,
And that's so nineteen ninety seven, and I can see
why they were like absolutely drawn. And then I was like,
thinking about it later, I'm like, but she didn't use
it to manipulate those fourteen year olds. But she did.
She did, but to gain their trust. She did it
(48:15):
by manipulating their guardrails, the adults who were there to
protect them.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, and then did it to them, and then did
it to them by disarming them.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, now they've underestimated her.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Oh anyway, yeah, real life, real life.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
So at the very start we get a voice over
Rebecca saying that fairy tales punished girls for selfishness or
for no reason, and so I wondered about like the
history of fairy tales and stuff like that, just just briefly.
They started out, according to The Guardian, as adult entertainment,
like old ladies sitting around a fire, sewing and talking
(48:57):
to one another, and then as that as people realized
this is fun. Then in the seventeenth and eighteenth century
they became much more sophisticated, and they were performances in
the courts of Europe and had largely been overtaken by men,
as is so often the case. And then it wasn't
(49:19):
until the nineteenth century that they started using it as
an educational tool. Fairy tales are not consistent.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
No, there's lots of different kinds.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Right, and they reward girls who are modest obedient kind,
and also girls who lie, deceive, and disobey, and girls
who are modest obedient kind get punished, and so do
the other kinds of girls. So it's really not a
very there's no uniformity, and that is always girls, not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
So actually have yet to read one.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Really, Okay, so some of the one dude, the Princess
of the Pea.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, well right, that's the only one I can think of.
I think maybe you and I have a biased against
this because girls get to tend tend to get red
stories about girls.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
I mean, I only stops fables.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yeah, okay, may I remember reading about Okay, well, but
like the ones that become.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Quote unquote fairy tale.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Uh huh, right, the ones that get co opted by Disney.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Right, those are all the other way around, right, But
like the fables, right, that's a little bit more mixed.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Sure, But like when I think of like.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
A fairy tale, uh huh, yeah, okay, I mean maybe
Peter Pan, yeah, if you can call that a fairy tale, sure, yeah,
I don't know, yeah maybe.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
So, Well, there's the blog steal Thistles and Catherine Languish
rites for it, and she did a deep dive into
fairy tales and misogyny they're in. And it's actually very
interesting because I expected to be, like, yes, lots of misogyny,
because that's kind of what they were in flying in
(51:00):
this whole section, right, Yeah, And she says, I can't
argue that there's no misogyny in fairy tales anymore than
I can argue that it doesn't exist in real life.
But I do know that there are plenty of active,
admirable female characters in fairy tales. And she looked at
the Grimm's fairy Tales kinder Unhaus Martian, which is this
(51:24):
is children's in household tels from eighteen fifty sevens. These
are the ones that really got co opted by Disney,
right exactly, mostly yes, So they have many, many stories,
and they're about one hundred or so that fit the
actual classification as a fairy tale. And so she looked
(51:44):
to see what it means for heroes and heroines to
achieve success, and far more heroes sixty five percent opposed
to forty four percent, had magical assistance, far more men
who had magical assistance than women. That the female heroines
(52:06):
were thirty five percent likely to use luck or wit
or a ruse of some kind to achieve a goal,
as opposed to only twenty percent of heroes. Thirty five
percent of heroines used endurance to their advantage, as opposed
to just eleven percent of heroes. Only twelve percent of
(52:29):
the fairy tales had a female being saved by a male.
None had males being saved by females. They might be
saved by other males. But I thought it was interesting.
It was much different than I expected it to be,
and I really appreciated somebody having a I wonder if
we haven't been, you know, had it cherry picked a
(52:52):
little more than we realize.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
But I see straight misogyny all through that. That dated
to me.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
O misogyny.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
Oh really, okay, because a woman had to work twice
as hard as a man in every situation to be
able to achieve something. Okay, the world, the universe, whatever
it was, gave magic to the men, whereas the women
had to scrap through.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Okay, and that's fair.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
They weren't deserving of society's help. They weren't deserving of
that extra you.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
Know, that extra positive failure or that fail forward that
the hair the heroes had.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
So I see misogyny all through there.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Oh so that's interesting. Okay, I guess it's all a
matter of perspective. Well it is, but both things can
be true, right right.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
We can see that there's not so much of that
explicit kind of misogyny where it's always the women being
saved by being saved by a man and being mistreateous, helpless.
But that's not normally the misogyny we have in real life.
That's fair, that's kind of how it hit me.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
But both things, I think are it can be true.
But yeah, interesting stuff though. This is why data is fun.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah, that's right. Just incidentally, nine one one is available
in Canada. I think it is one of the countries
that uses nine one one, yes, like, along with many
others Mexico, all of North America, you know, Dominican Republic, Pakistan, Panama,
(54:35):
the Philippines. Lots of places use nine to one one.
In the UK it's nine nine nine yeah, but still
emergency services, yes, call them for help. So nepotism does
have an impact on the job market, but maybe not
quite the way you would think so. Harvard Magazine talked
(54:56):
about this in the summer of twenty twenty three, talked
to about how the American labor market is not a meritocracy,
that it's not always the most qualified candidate who gets it,
because when you have a deluge of applicants, sometimes you
just pick another employees child. Yeah. Before turning thirty. Nearly
(55:17):
one third of Americans will work at the same firm
as a parent. White men from high income families benefit
from nepotism far more than poor people, women and minorities do,
which is why I really wanted Roy her adopted father
to like step in for her. Yeah right, just do
(55:37):
the thing you would do it for Scott.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I think that's kind of the point.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Uh huh. Yeah. However, the nepotistic economy is neither driven
by parents hiring their children at small family owned businesses,
nor by fortune five hundred CEOs getting their children internships.
It is primarily a blue collar phenomenon and is especially
prevalent in manufacturing. I guess it works there. They're going
(56:05):
to get their kid a job where they work, which
I was a little surprised at that. And now they
say nepotism is not inherently bad.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
I do.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
I have mixed feelings about it.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I do, Yeah, I mean I get that, But also
I'm like, in this day and age, she used any
advantage you can.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
And it's hard because I mean, there is something nice. Well,
first of all, it's not uncommon that a kid might
be into the same things as the parent and have
the kind of the similar qualities and skills. And then
especially if they grew up talking about it, you know
what I mean, So it's like not like unheard of
that that would be similar. But and also you as
(56:46):
long as they can still go through this training, as
long as they can go and get the education and
then show them, I don't hate the idea of that.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Right, you know.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
But on the other hand, when they don't look else
wherever and there's no opportunity for somebody to do something
because what if their parents.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
Don't have that to give, which I.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
Think applies to at least fifty percent of not more
of our population, then that drives a divide.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
So, yeah, you're so astute. These hiring patterns have negative
consequences for productivity, diversity of representation, and equality of opportunity. Yeah,
so they tend to stay at jobs longer. Children tend
to work at the same kinds of jobs as their
(57:39):
parent of the same gender, assuming that they have a
parent of the same gender. But you know, it's like,
if dad works at this manufacturing facility, then their son's
going to go work at this manufacturing facility, and they're
less likely to leave that job. They're also less likely
to be promoted because maybe can do that job, but
(58:01):
they're not really capable of more, and they're not willing
to look elsewhere for another job because this is the
best job that they could get, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
And it is weird because we have this heart for like,
oh my grandpa works here, my dad worked here, and
now I worked here, and we're.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
All like, oh, that's so beautiful. Well, this is why
surnames are the way they are, Yeah, exactly, because oh, yes,
the Smiths literally were blacksmiths, right, and it was the
family name, that was the family thing.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
But like then, right, but then what do you do
when when you need better perspectives outside opinions, you need
diversity for innovation and all of that kind of stuff.
So I think there just has to be a balance
and I don't know what it looks like. I don't
need the general or regulatory level, but I do know
that as a society we need to learn to hold
(58:53):
both of those things at the same time so that
we can weigh them.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
Sure, you know, and it's difficult to do. That's really
is why you should go to college, kids, so that
you can help way these things. Yes, on a lighter note,
is nail polish makeup?
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Oh my gosh, No, no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
And who cares?
Speaker 1 (59:13):
Okay, I mean, for real.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
Kid is at your kitchen tap or at your dinner
table for the first time, and this is what you
want to say.
Speaker 1 (59:20):
Yeah, you want to fuss at her about nail polish,
I mean for real. So Ellis James Designs asked this
very question and they said, it's kind of a fine
line because generally makeup is to enhance your appearance, but
usually it's the face. Yeah, right, and so nail polish
(59:44):
will enhance the appearance of your nails, but it doesn't
go on your face.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
It is in the mail in makeup section.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
Okay, it's cosmetics.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
Thank you. Oh that's the word.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
That's the word. That's the word. It's cosmetics. It's not
makeup per se. It is a cosmetic as much as
like your lotion is a cosmetic. Well, even if you
might use that on your face, but you might use
it all over your body because you have skin all
over your body. Right, that's it. It's a cosmetic. It's
a cosmetic. Next time a period piece. I can't believe
(01:00:21):
that nineteen eighties are a period piece now, but here
we are about love and organized Crimes, starring Kristen Stewart
and Katie O'Brien. Love Lies Bleeding streaming now on Max.
Thank you so much for listening. We know you make
a choice when you listen to us. We don't just
come on the radio. Hey tell a friend, because it
(01:00:43):
is so much more fun when you can listen with
a friend. Hit us up on the socials and until
next time, be safe, be kind, and wash your hands.
Welcome back to Killer Fund, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christy and
I'm Jackie and today today we are talking about the
Hulu limited series Under the Bridge only the first episode,
number one, looking class. Yes, and oh my gosh, middle
school just is just the worst. Oh gosh, it's just
(00:33):
the worst.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I mean, especially in the nineties.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
I mean, I mean I thought maybe middle school had
gotten worse because of phones and things like that, being
able to capture all of those embarrassing moments, and I.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Actually maybe reliving it watching this show.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Who was like, oh, maybe it's not worse.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Maybe it's not maybe it's not worse bananas.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I mean, it's just it's bad. I mean, And of
course these are all couple young people who are really
having a hard time with life, but also also middle
school is the worst. Worst is the worst.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Okay, tell me how how much did you sing the
song as you watched the show?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Oh? All of it? Okay, yeah, all the whole I
mean constantly. It's in my head now, yes, yeah, oh yes.
My husband was like, I forgot what you're covering this week,
and I told him and he was like immediately launched
himTo Red Hot Chili Peppers. So funny.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I was like, I've been assaulted by the nineties a
lot recently. So we have a really cool coffee shop
in town. By the way, I'm gonna shout them out
folklore all nineties ninety It's a super cool place. And
then the show and then nineties playlist was somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
It was like a lot of like, Wow, you're peeking
into my high school bedroom right now.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Oh my gosh. So if you're if you want a
little more of that. Oh. The first season of Yellow Jackets,
which is a show on Showtime, was released to Netflix. Yay,
all right. The cast, Oh, it's got a fantastic cast,
really truly. So. Lily Gladstone is cam Bentlin, the only
(02:19):
police officer of color in the Victoria Police Department. Of course,
she looks super familiar because she was in Killers of
the Flower Moon. I've also seen her in Billions and
Reservation Dogs. She's great. Fredrika Gupta is Rena Verk, the
a fictionalized version of the real girl. Okay. Rena Verk
(02:43):
fourteen year old Canadian Indian girl living in Victoria, British Columbia,
she's mostly done short films, and it's hard with these
younger actors. They don't have a lot of work a
lot of the time, so there's not a lot for
us to recognize them from.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Then.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Riley Kannaff is Rebecca Godfrey, the fictionalized version of the
author Rebecca Godfrey, who wrote the book Under the Bridge.
She got her big break in The Good Doctor opposite
Orlando Bloom in twenty ten. She's been in Mad Max
Fury Road, The Girlfriend Experience, Jason Daisy Jones, and The
(03:21):
Six Lots of Good Stuff. And then I'm just gonna
run through these people. So Chloe Guidri is Josephine Bell,
the leader of the CMC. Ayana Goodfellow is Dusty, friend
of Reina, and CMC member is eg plays Kelly Eller.
CMC member Archie Punjabi is Suman Verk, Rena's mother. Ezra
(03:47):
farok Khan is Mengji Verk, father of Reina. So there's
lots of great people. It's good. It's good. Yeah, they're good.
I mean they're good. It's good.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
They're crushing the nineties.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I mean they're yes, absolutely, I mean it's like nothing, no.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
No, I mean, so I was like, oh my god,
look at they're in the bedroom at the home, right
the home, and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Oh, they did it.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
They made it like totally ungrammable, Like it's totally not
something you would see. It's not filter, it's a mass,
it's not colorful, it's not well designed, it's.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Like exactly what a nineties bedroom looks like. Well done, guys, yeah,
well done. All right recap. It's hard to find your
place in the world, especially when you're different from those
around you. Rina is Indian in predominantly white Canada. Her
family are very observant Jehovah's witness, and this fourteen year
(04:50):
old just feels like she doesn't fit in anywhere. So
when she finds even the most minimal acceptance in a
group of troubled girls, she holds on for dear life.
But these girls, at least some of them, are not
only troubled but cruel, and it's understandable how they became
quote unquote mean girls, but it makes for contentious and
(05:15):
drama filled situations. So trying to stand up for herself
backfires in a way that one might expect in an
actual gang. The CMC is a pseudo gang. They're they're
verging on gang.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yeah, they're trying there.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, I don't know how.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Uh, I don't know if it's a definition.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
I don't know if it does either.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
But there doesn't matter when they see it that.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Way, I mean it doesn't, right, Yeah, and Rena goes missing.
So thoughts thoughts, Oh, I had some thoughts. You have
some thoughts, I know. Oh yeah, so Rena's uncle Roger,
he buys his niece the latest album by the Notorious Big,
and I have to say, there is nothing quite like
having the physical media in your hand. Streaming is so convenient,
(06:05):
Yes it is. However, the going and the buying and
the unwrapping and the opening of the physical thing and
putting that CD physically in, I mean it was very
nostalgic for me.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know why that doesn't hit
for me.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Really, I don't care if it was a tape. Maybe.
I don't know why that one hits more than the CDs.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Okay, I don't know why. Oh. I mean I did
a lot of hunting where I'd go to like specialty,
little tiny record stores when those more existed and didn't
just sell vinyl you know where you go and buy
the CDs and I'd be like yeah, and I would
be like, hey, this place is weird. Let me sing
(06:49):
you the song and see if you can help me
figure out what it is. Yeah, right, exactly. Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I think I spent so much time taping the radio.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I had mixtapes a lot even and we had CDs though,
because that you couldn't you still had to tape the
radio if you want to do that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I mean, it's nostalgic, but isn't a hit like that?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But I get it. I get it. It hit it for me. Yeah,
I was like, yeah, okay. So Raj thought Rena was
done with the Seven Oaks girls, the Seven Oaks being
a foster group home, and I'm like, he's on the
verge of talking bad about them, and I'm like, dude,
clicks are like boyfriends. You have to be real, real
(07:33):
careful how much you say about them because even when
they become ex boyfriends or x clicks, they have a
way of coming back. You don't want to have said
the bad thing.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
No, no, but he went to bridge too far, he did.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I felt bad for him because he was very well meaning.
He really was. Yeah, And speaking of well meaning, Raj
tells Rena to focus on her family, and Rena goes
to get out of the car while it's still moving,
and I'm like, Okay, that's probably good advice. And yet, like,
this is so much moxie for her to like open
the door, it's a moving and she made sure to
(08:09):
get the CD out of the CD player before she
got out of the car. I'm like, I know, I
have to admire that she's a fourteen year old girl
behaving in a ridiculous manner that is dangerous, and still
I admire her moxie. Yeah. So, uh the ultimate insult
(08:30):
calling somebody fat and I was like, oh that hit
two the nineties when everybody was obsessed with thenness.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
That hit especially in the dance world.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah. Yeah, So Rebecca the author her family home.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Oh my god, can we talk about her family home?
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Oh my god? It was gorgeous and it had the
most beautiful view. I just I don't even know.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
I mean, I do anything to repair a relationship with
the parents if I live.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
There, and that sounds terrible. I'll do anything to be
honest in that house. But I get it. I get it,
you have to go. It's the town.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
You can't stay in the house all the time. But
also I probably could figure out a way.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
I mean, especially now in work for a hall. Now,
like you could teach all your classes one was so
beautiful as you look out over the beautiful Yeah, I could.
It was gorgeous, I really could. So I got a
bad feeling when Rena gave her name to Connor, when
(09:29):
she called him on the phone and she was spreading
rumors about Joe all over the place, and I was like,
all the other calls were anonymous. Why did you give
your name? Because then she kind of asked him out,
So I get it. She's like, I want her to
know that I could potent, I would be willing to
take her boyfriend. But also like there was a reason
(09:51):
why all the others were not.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, if you don't, if you're gonna, if you're.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Gonna get the number from her book and call you,
just don't spread the rumor there, right, Just say oh,
she gave it to me and then ask him out.
Just do the thing, right, Because I really didn't get that.
I got that she that Josephine has the crush on it, right,
I don't know that they were together, but he was
definitely their dealer.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Uh huh oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
But then Reena liked him, but Rena had no connection to.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Him, right, I don't know that she even really liked
him liked him. She just knew that Joe liked him,
and she admired Yah and feared Joe and so power moves. Yeah,
I like power mood, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Yeah he is adorable, though, this boy is adorable.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Little dimples yeah again killing the nineties the long hair yea.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
So, Rena realized she'd been invited to a party, not
because Joe and her crew respected her for her dealings,
but more nefarious reason. And I guess calling the police
from the payphone would have been gotten her labeled as
a rat. But that did not stop me from yelling
at the TV.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Call nine one one, yeah, like I mean seriously, like call.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Just call the police, just call. You don't want to
be a rat, but you also, yeah, don't want to
go missing, which is what happened. Yeah, yeah, because she
called someone. Uh huh, we don't know who. She called
her parents and told them that she would be home.
Yeah was it?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Do we know for sure?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I was trying to connect that dot later and yeah,
couldn't quite.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Can She called home to tell them she would was home, okay, right,
and then she didn't show up at home.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Right, okay, okay, so it was Yeah, when they came
to the police station later, they say she called, They say, yes,
she would be home. It wasn't okay. I was like, oh,
I couldn't remember when they were talking. I couldn't couldn't
figure out whether they were saying that it's been three
days and she left, or that she had called, or
I think I mixed it up later.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
In my mind. Okay, yes, yeah, it was okay, it
was a whole situation.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, okay, So yeah, you're right, though, she should have
called that on one and just left it on the
hook or like left it hanging. H But see, she
didn't think, well, teenagers at that age, I think they're invincible,
or even if they're scared, they don't actually think somethings
gonna happen to them.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
She didn't really think that her quote unquote friends were
going to do anything really bad to her, like, oh,
maybe she get jumped and like have a black eye.
Well and yeah, spoiler alert, well no more. I have
only watched episode one, I know, and you have not
done all of the research. So like after I watched
(12:44):
episode one and I do all the research very small,
but see, I have also watched the rest. I watched
the last one.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
If you have watched episode one, it ends with her
the spoiler alert alive.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, that's where it ends.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
But you know, because this is series and this is
a book that yeah, be done in that way.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
But I'm just right and so one yeah, so can
the police officer asked her dad to put in a
good word for her for a job transfer, and he
says it's better if she earns it, and I'm like,
that might be true, but she's an indigenous woman in
law enforcement. She can use all of the help that
(13:23):
she can get. Yeah, I know, dude, just do it.
He just didn't want her to leave. He loves her around.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It's really kind of it's very selfish that he just
wants her there, right, But you.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Know, Rena goes missing and the police don't want help,
and I was like, is this one good thing to
come out of social media? Is that like you can
go report this to the police and then just put
the flyer out there yourself, like help me look for
ye And then I was absolutely sick hearing the police
refer to the lost and vulnerable girls as bisposable single uslters.
(14:02):
I was like, it's so, it's disgusting. It was disgusting,
then it is disgusting now. So we know that the
story was adapted from a book, yes, by Rebecca Godfrey
of the same name Under the Bridge, but it was
(14:23):
not adapted from just one book.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
Oh interesting, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So they also optioned Rena's father's book called Rena a
Father's Story and incorporated details from his book into this,
And he spent time with the showrunners helping to get
some of this stuff and I'm more right. Yeah, one
of the showrunners, Samir Meta, we optioned men Jete's book.
(14:51):
I spoke to man Jeet myself just to get personal
stories he was willing to give. Beyond that, a big
part of it was just execating personal experience being a
first generation American myself from an Indian family. So we'll
talk about some of the ways that it was fictionalized later.
It was basically shot on location, yeah, so was mostly
(15:14):
shot in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is very close to Sanwich.
Where all of these events took place. The showrunner spoke
about how filming really added depth to the story, just
shooting the show so close to where it happened in Vancouver.
Almost every week we encountered somebody who had a personal connection.
It imbued the story with a local perspective because we
(15:37):
were surrounded by people who lived this. Wow. I was like, Oh,
that's cool and also heartbreaking. Yeah yeah, so resources. So
Rina's parents, after the events happened, really got involved in
anti bullying organizations. So one of those is the Committee
(16:00):
for Children the cf Children dot org, and they have
a lot of resources available to parents and kids and
educators to help identify bullying when it's happening, how to
prevent it, how to help people recover. That's great, yeah,
and stop bullying. Dot gov has lots of information. If
(16:22):
somebody is an immediate harm, of course, call nine one one.
Someone's feeling suicidal or hopeless or any of that sort
of like very sort of feelings that go hand in
hand with being bullied, or even bullies themselves will often
feel these things. Yes, you can call nine eight eight,
(16:44):
And there's the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline which you can
call her text. I mean these are available for you
so you can get help. If you notice that somebody
you love is acting differently, you know it would be
worth getting counselor or mental health professional involved. And you know,
if your child is being bullied at school, start with
(17:05):
their teacher, the school counselor the principal, the superintendent, and
the state Department of Education for as long as that
exists in the United States, you know, So that's an
avenue available for you, you know, but there are people
that you can go and like escalate it as needed
as far as it's needed. And then to help kids
(17:29):
kind of recovers or prevent them from being bullied so
or prevent them from becoming beliefs, getting them involved is
really helpful. And there's this great organization called Kuwanas and
they are a non denominational, not a religiously affiliated. They
(17:50):
do tend to meet at churches often, but they are
not supposed to be denominationally affiliated or religious in any way.
And so you have the adult groups or adults who
want to support children and help them become good involved
members of their community. And then they have Kawanis Kids,
(18:12):
which it's a leadership program you can encourage them to be,
you know, civically minded and good members of their community.
And these sorts of activities can help them feel accepted
and valuable in a lot of ways, so they don't
become bullies, and they it can help them feel better
(18:33):
after being bullied to know that they're really so valuable
in their community. So it's good. Those are resources.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Good thing today, good resources. So here's how it works.
Christy rex her search history.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Hey, in essay, we promise it's nothing more nefarious than
a podcast to find out what's true some of the
psychological motivations behind the characters actions and real life applications
that really to our topic. I have no idea what
Christy decided to look up could be the same thing
that captured my curiosity or something I never thought of.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
Is it true? Okay? So ish? Yeah, much of the
overarching story has true elements, I mean, and they do
a really good job at the beginning of having a
title card. Yes, it says that things have been added, things,
situations have been fictionalized, and things have been added that
(19:33):
did not happen to help move the story along. So
like the essence of it is true. I feel like
this is a little like baby Reindeer.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because it really brings up
that philosophical ideal that you know, when you tell a story,
it can be true and not factual, right, And that's hard.
That's why we tell stories because there is something true
about them, but truth doesn't mean historically documented, right and
(20:06):
because and so this is one of those times.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, for sure. So Cam the police officer who is
First Nations person is not a real not a real person,
not a real character. She is an amalgamation of law enforcement.
She was there to serve the story, to move it along.
(20:29):
We see a whole lot of Rebecca Godfrey in this.
She was not like she talked to these kids, but
not while the trials and stuff were going on. I mean,
all her involvement in this was very much after the fact.
And that was actually some of the criticism I read
was just how centralized they made her to this particular story.
(20:51):
And I understand that she was really just a vehicle.
She was also involved in helping the creation of this,
but she passed away from lung cancer just a few
weeks before they started filming.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
That's so sad.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, so you know, maybe that was a little bit
of that may and of course she knew she was dying,
so you know that may have had a little impetus
in how they portrayed her in this particular story. Was
this was her la the last thing that she was
ever going to be really known for. Yeah, so yeah,
(21:28):
I mean it is hard.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
So I can see, like how how like even using
the author as a central character as an amalgamation of
like a lot of people who were driving the situation,
and how just putting it in the author's hands sort
of ties it up in a little bow, right, right
to make the story.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
While in giving her a relationship with Cam and having
that be sort of this that Yeah, like it's it's
a way to tie the story together again truth but
not fact.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Right exactly Like the two characters that are the most fictionalized, right,
or at least centralized and fictionalized, are drivers of the truth.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Right. Rina really was a kid who was bullied and
struggled to fit in. She you know, did smoke, She
did listen to East Coast hip hops. She did argue
with her parents. She did paint her fingernails to their discontent.
(22:31):
She was accused of spreading rumors she was accused of
stealing somebody's boyfriend. Yeah, I know, I know, Okay, I
have stupid You want to talk about thoughts?
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I have thoughts about her parents.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Oh okay, save those because I have them in psychology
break perfect. H huh yeah, lovely. Yeah, she was invited
to join a party and was rutally attacked. It did
take a very long time for the legal process's wheels
to move in this situation. They did leave some things out.
(23:13):
According to screen Rant, that's where the idea that you know,
Rebecca was so central to this, to the show, and
she was not really central to the actual events. It
comes from Kelly Ellard, who we only see briefly. She's
like the close friend to Joe. Doesn't live at seven Oaks.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Okay, yeah, right said that.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Yeah, she did have a very disturbing pattern of violence
when she was young. She was confrontational towards teachers, explosive.
Her pattern of violence was so disruptive they were in
the process of transferring her to another school when all
of this went down. Joe really did ask for for
(24:03):
John Gotti's lawyer, So Notorious Big. This was the the
album she was so excited to get. Yeah, was it
out in nineteen ninety seven. Oh boy, that's hard. Yeah,
I was like, Jackie might actually she'll either have to
guess or just know this, oh absolutely or no way.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah. I feel like this album was out because.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
This is what year again, nineteen ninety seven? It was no,
it was November of ninety seven when.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
She si year okay, high school.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Okay, dang, that's fine, I can why, but I kind
of thought nineteen ninety six. Okay, But then but then
I was kind of like, okay, so because it's hard
because the singles dropped before the albums dropped, and so
I feel like maybe I knew some things the album
(25:05):
might not dropped until later.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Okay. So actually the album is Life After Death right,
which is ironic because it came out in March of
nineteen ninety seven, so it had been out a while
before she got it. Okay, So that's kind of interesting.
But then when you watch later, you realize there was
(25:27):
stuff going on in her life, and it makes sense
why she would get this album that was kind of
sought after in her group, in her peers until November,
because because of stuff. It took the uncle like buying
it for her right and trying to ingratiate himself with
her litle to pe right.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Exactly, Yes, trying some positive reinforcement, go uncle.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Uh huh. Yeah. But Biggie's album Life After Death was
released six teen days after his murder.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, okay see, and that was the other part of it.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I was like, oh yeah, oh wait, wait wait wait
huh yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So it's interesting because you know it was already called
Life After Death. Yeah, I was. I mean, everything was printed,
everything was ready to go. They weren't like, oh we
got to change the name of this and print all. No,
it was already named that, and then he died immediately
before it. Yeah. And both of the songs that we
(26:29):
heard in this first episode are on that album. It
was a two disc set. They were not, however, the
first song. So when she puts that CD in a
car and it immediately starts playing going back to Cali,
that was actually the fourth track on the.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Second CD, it's like, how fast can you click it?
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, exactly. And then the second song we heard was
kicking the Door, and that was track four on the
first CD first ing Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Disc one, Yeah, yeah, good stuff.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah. Affirmative action really did ramp up in the nineties.
But it was it a part of Canadian culture in
nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
No, but nothing. Okay.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
This is the one thing I will say is the
nineties they portrayed was very US nineties. And so I
did question, you know, because I was like, Okay, they're
on an island in Canada. I feel like it would
be a little different than what I experienced. So, like
when he says some things, it's hard because like the
guy who plays the dad also played like you know,
(27:34):
sec nav and ncis Oh, I see him as American law,
an American law.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Enforcem So he's typecast as law enforce a little bit, okay,
a little bit.
Speaker 3 (27:44):
He's good though, And so I don't know. I was like, Okay,
I don't know, maybe it is, maybe it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Okay. Well, according to an old article from January ninety seven, No, yeah,
they there was a whole like International Women's Rights Action
Watch that talked about affirmative action. Now, affirmative action talked
about more than women. It was about minority is getting
(28:12):
people in the room. I've had to literally explain this
to my dad about why affirmative action isn't the boogeyman
that he seems to think it is. And I'm like,
he's like, well, if companies want to hire people, they
should be able to do that. I'm like, okay, but
if companies are going to hire diverse people, those diverse
(28:32):
people need to have the access to education and opportunities
to make them qualified to sit in those rooms.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, it's a I'm going to blame marketing for this,
uh huh stupid name. Yes, affirmative action means nothing and
says nothing right, And so this has been a problem
for like civil rights activists and be kids of all sorts,
is that they come up with a name they think
(29:05):
means something and it absolutely does not, and then they
use rhetoric that is that is far.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It's not just preach into the choir.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
It's preaching to the people who bring donuts in the morning, right, Like,
they don't need the explanation.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
And so these names and these this rhetoric they come.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Up with does nothing to help somebody who has no
idea what is happening. And that's another reason why psychologists
should be in every room.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Psychologists and marketing professionals need to be there.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Yeah, because guess what, like I mean, you just need
somebody like if you are advocating for something, if you're
trying to win something, you're trying to push agendas of
any kind.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Please consultant consultants and they will.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
They will provide for you a team of psychologists and marketing.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Uh huh, yes, that will help you actually achieve your goals. Yes, yes, anyway,
so I'm always action, thank you. It was around They
had this, a big talk about this at the International
Women's Rights Action Watch in January of nineteen ninety seven. However,
it was not called affirmative action in Canada. God, please
(30:16):
tell me it was better employment equity. Ah, well that
is better. It's it's not it doesn't roll off the
tongue other than its alliteration. Right, but so is affirmative action. Yeah,
but you know at least it's descriptive.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, I mean our government office is actually called equal opportunity,
equal employment or yeah, equal employment no equal employment opportunity
eeo yeah right right yeah, like sorry, I had to
think through that.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Said that allowed.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Maybe ever it's always on forms yeah exactly, yeah right.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
Like we're an equal opportunity employer, right, like you see
those right, that's actually better, right, the affirmative action, because
affirmative action is a.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Very academic term, right, like other academic terms that get maligned. Yes, anyway, Yes,
So Canada specifically targeted three groups of people, or actually
four groups of people, women, visible minorities, people with disabilities,
(31:22):
and what they called at the time Aboriginal people. So
First Nations people were particularly because not everyone who is
a First Nations person was automatically identifiable as a person
of color. And really, even then it only applied to
about ten percent of employers in Canada. Wow. So it's again,
(31:47):
it's a small thing that people are trying to do
to bring equity to the world, and yet it really
didn't affect that many people. H But it got a
lot of press, it did, Boy, it did anyway. So
the leader of the CMC, Joe the Crip mafia cartel,
(32:07):
just like the most fourteen year old ever thing. Yes,
it's a very fourteen year old I'm gonna be tough name.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Yes, if you have to doodle it in your journal,
yeah you're not tough, right, Okay, I'm just gonna.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So Joe was obsessed with John Gotti and if she'd
gone to NYC, New York City with Rebecca in nineteen
ninety seven, could she have worked for John Gotti, Like
would that have been a possibility, I mean as a
mafia boss. No, I mean no, but like physic like
(32:44):
if she could have convinced him, was he was he
available to be convinced in ninety seven?
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, not really, not really.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
She would have to get on the list to go
visit him in prison, like because he was in prison.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Him personally, his people were still there, but they were
still waning out as well.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Right that by that time, very much he was a
very powerful and dangerous crime boss in the United States.
He was called Teflon Dawn because he had went on
trial in the eighties and got away with a bunch
of stuff that they later found out was the reason
he got away with it was jury tampering, German's contact
(33:26):
and witness intimidation. So, you know, not a good guy,
the leader of the Gambino crime family. But in nineteen
ninety two he was convicted of five murders, conspiracy to
commit murder, racketeering, obstruction of justice, tax evasion, illegal gambling, extortion,
(33:46):
loan charging. And he went to prison without parole and
died there in two thousand and two. So that was
in nineteen ninety two. So from nineteen ninety two until
his death in two thousand and two, he was in prison. Yeah,
so probably she wasn't going to be not to work
for him. No, no, no, no. Joe tells Rena that
she knows Rena took her diary, and Rena simply replied
(34:12):
street rules. Right, what does street rules mean? According to dictionary?
Like to them?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
To them, it means I'm trying to be cool like
you were trying to be cool?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Means nothing basically, okay.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
So it either means no rules apply, no rule, uh huh,
or it's an unwritten rule that she should already know.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Right yeah, right, that's the thing, like she is between you.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
You messed with me, I can mess with you that
street rules or street rules there are no rules, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I mean like and I mean when you play in basketball,
like pick up basketball and stuff like, there's these the
same kind of thing the street rules, Like is it
is it you have to bleed to have a foul,
you know, like no blood, no foul, right, like that
kind of thing. But it's also you know, like I
think about monopoly. Oh, I mean do we put money
on free parking?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
How people just win that?
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Right? You know? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
No, I go buy the book rules. No straight rules
for Monopoly makes the game last a lot longer.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
I need to find the actual The actual.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Rules make the game a normal game, right, and all
the extra things we do make it.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's why people blow up and flip tables.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Right, Yes, because you've got the extraneous ones. Actually Monopoly
side note Monopoly. Those rules that we all play by
are the ones that we're supposed to teach us that
landlords are bad yea, and the free market is actually
not a great way to run a society. And there's
(35:52):
another set of rules that now no longer get printed.
But you play with the exact same board that's much
more cooperative. Either you all win or you all lose. Yes,
there you go. You need to find those well, we
should find those rules. The men in our lives would
not like that.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
They want to get They wanted, they want to win.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
My husband always wins always.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
That's because he can control the dice.
Speaker 2 (36:15):
But I know it's really weird.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
That's a that's for another day.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
That's another day.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
November fourteenth, nineteen ninety seven, really was the day of
the party where Rena went missing. Okay, would they have
seen lights over the night? I don't know. I couldn't.
I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I didn't know for sure if it was like the
actual day or not.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I was like, Oh, I'm like, this is where they
get to say based on a true story, because it
really was. It really there really was space junk from
an old Russian Rachet rocket that re entered the atmosphere
overnight in the late hours of November fourteenth into the
early hours of November fifteenth over the Pacific Ocean in
(37:01):
the coast of Washington. It fell safely into the ocean.
But they that really would have been the night? Yeah,
detail to get right. Yes, So Connor was reluctant to
let Cam, the police officer, into his house, not because
she was a cop and he was a drug dealer,
(37:23):
but because Cam was a cop and he had an
illegal exotic pet and iguana. Is it illegal to have
a pet iguana in Canada?
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I think legal here, Okay, get a special permission to
have an iguana, like a certain types of.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Iguanas, okay. So according to the SPCA, the British Columbia
SPCA serval cats, iguanas and parrots are not included in
the provincial regulations. They'd call them an exotic pet anybody
according to their website. Now, I don't know in nineteen
(38:01):
ninety seven, I could not find the laws from nineteen
ninety seven. In order to have things like tigers, lions, monkeys, marmosets,
fenic foxes, caymans, cobras, poison arrow dart frogs, they're illegal
to have his pets, but you can get special permission
to have them for like zeus and things servals.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
I'm glad they were exempt. Amazing cats.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Amazing cats. Yeah, the SPCA would not agree with you
because they say they suffer in captivity because they were
not included well provincial.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
Maybe that's true.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
But the ones that we see on Instagram are from
families who are actually taken the injured ones, right, and they're
so week that's so cool, yeah, I mean, and these
are casts that would not survive in the wild. Right.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
But all of the sources that we use to inform
our discussion here on Killer Fund Podcast can be found
on our social media us on Facebook at Killer Fun Podcast,
exploring the intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find
us on Twitter at Killer Funpod, or you can send
us an email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com, and
(39:13):
I'd be happy to share a link to whatever information
you're looking for. We love to hear from you. You
might learn a little something too. Psychology break Oh good,
all right, So we're going to just touch on a
few little things here. So the family was deeply religious.
(39:33):
I wanted to know if there was research about it.
So in twenty seventeen there is an article in the
Journal for Child's Psychology and Psychiatry, and it's called Mixed
Blessings Parental Religiousness, Parenting and Child Adjustment, and Global Perspective.
(39:54):
They talked to almost twelve hundred families across religions, and
they found that parental warmth and rejection had consistent relationships
with parental religiousness and child outcomes depending on the informant.
So it was very mixed basically. But here is their conclusion.
(40:21):
Parents and children agree that parental religiousness is associated with
more controlling parenting and in turn increased child problem behaviors. However,
children see religiousness as related to parental rejection and parents
see religiousness as related to parental efficacy and warmth. So
(40:44):
the religious parents think they're actually warm and the children
see it as rejection. I just thought it was super
interesting to hear about that now, particularly Riena's mother Suman
was very religious, so I want to know if there
was research on that. There actually is more recent from
twenty twenty three, and this was from the psychological post
(41:09):
psychpost dot org. I didn't write down the name of
the oh actual psychpost dot org. Children of highly religious
mothers are more likely to internalize their problems. They had
these groups, and they broke them into four categories, highly religious,
(41:29):
moderately religious, agnostic, and atheist. So highly religious mothers had
children who had a higher risk of attention deficit disorder, depression,
obsessive compulsive disorder, and oppositional defiant disorder compared to the
children of agnostic mothers. However, being extreme turns out not great.
(41:53):
Children of atheist mothers had a higher risk of attention deficit,
hyperactivity disorder, and conduct disorder, but were less likely to
be bullies or unhappy with friends compared to agnostic mothers.
Very highly religious mothers tend to have children who really
internalized their anxiety and all their symptoms of self doubt,
(42:18):
and children of atheist parents or atheist mothers specifically had
a greater risk of externalizing their symptoms. So it turns
out being too invested in your religious perspective is detrimental
to your kids. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
I didn't like her. No, I didn't like her.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
She was terrible, and the husband kept trying to tell her,
like back off, like this is not the hill we
want to die on, but she could not.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
She it was all about her.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
It was all about her. And that's the problem. That's
why it feels like rejection because it is.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Okay, I'm talking. Okay, so Cam's brother Scott, who's also
a police officer in the same precinct or whatever. Yeah,
dismissed Rajamanji reporting Marina missing despite the girl calling home
and saying she'd be there soon. All he said was
(43:20):
teenagers lie. He's not wrong, but should we look at
why teenagers lie? Because they do so. Newport Academy dot
Com has an article all about this and that teen
lying is very common, more common than many adults might think.
They looked at a study and found that peak dishonesty
(43:44):
occurs in adolescence. Yeah, and like that's just brain development,
Like that's part of it, and we tend to lie
less as we get older, barring mitigating circumstances or psychological disorders.
Why do they lie? Part of it is to find
(44:05):
their independence. Part of it is to cover up risky
behaviors that they know their parents aren't going to approve of.
They have poor impulse control, so they might just lie
to try and get away with stuff and see how
much they can get away with. So there's three types
(44:25):
of teen lying. Typically avoidance, steering parents away from topics
they don't want to talk about, omission, leaving out information
they know their parents will be interested in. And comission,
which is just flat out telling a falsehood. They do
it to get out of trouble because they don't want
(44:47):
to their parents to know they're doing something dangerous because
they think the rules are unfair. Check. It also might
be to protect others feelings. If they know their parents
aren't going to prove and it's going to hurt their
feelings to tell them the truth, they might just not
tell it. Yeah, they also want to be private. The
more teens lie, the more likely they are to have
(45:08):
it be a risk factor for alcohol consumption. Yeah, so
that's something to think about. But they did find in
this study that warm and trusting parent child relationships will
find a decrease in teens lying to their parents, and
(45:29):
that also decreased their likelihood that they would abuse alcohol.
So you know, don't be too extreme. Do have open
lines of communication? Of course they say that as teens,
But you have to start that when they're little. Yeah,
that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
You can't just start it then, No, uh huh, you can't.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
No, it really needs to be.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
It's hard because when they're little you have to both
be an open.
Speaker 3 (45:56):
Warm, safe place for them to fall and just larious
and the disciplinary the biggest guard rail.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, and it is. It is not easy to No,
it is not. I would say you've done an excellent job.
Thank you. Ditto.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
We have amazing children.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
We do amazing children. I loved this quote from doctor
Nancy Darling. Good kids are trusted. The more they're trusted,
the more they will try to live up to that trust,
and the more trustworthy a person they will become. So
and they give suggestions in this article. If you want
to read it, please feel free. So Rebecca tells the
(46:35):
Seven Oaks girls she lies to be able to get
in there to talk to them. She's not a good
example of adults who lie less, but she said you
can get away with a lot more when people don't
take you seriously. And at first I was like, yeah,
let other people's assumptions work for you. And then I realized, oh,
that is absolutely manipulation. Thinking about it a little more so, yeah,
(47:05):
And it's a lot of the same things as the teens, right.
George K. Simon, who's a psychologist, says that successful manipulation
involves concealing aggressive intentions and behaviors and being affable, which
I'm like, oh, that's very much Rebecca, knowing the psychological
(47:25):
vulnerabilities of the victim to determine which tastics are most
likely to be effective, and having a sufficient level of
ruthlessness to have no qualms about causing harm to the
victim if necessary. I'm like, oh, check, check, check. So
it was interesting just to realize that this thing that
(47:47):
at first I thought was kind of I can see
why the fourteen year olds thought.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
It was badass, right, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (47:53):
Let them underestimate you and use it to your advantage exactly,
And that's so nineteen ninety seven, and I can see
why they were like absolutely drawn. And then I was like,
thinking about it later, I'm like, but she didn't use
it to manipulate those fourteen year olds. But she did.
She did, but to gain their trust. She did it
(48:15):
by manipulating their guardrails, the adults who were there to
protect them.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, and then did it to them, and then did
it to them by disarming them.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Yeah, now they've underestimated her.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
Oh anyway, yeah, real life, real life.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
So at the very start we get a voice over
Rebecca saying that fairy tales punished girls for selfishness or
for no reason, and so I wondered about like the
history of fairy tales and stuff like that, just just briefly.
They started out, according to The Guardian, as adult entertainment,
like old ladies sitting around a fire, sewing and talking
(48:57):
to one another, and then as that as people realized
this is fun. Then in the seventeenth and eighteenth century
they became much more sophisticated, and they were performances in
the courts of Europe and had largely been overtaken by men,
as is so often the case. And then it wasn't
(49:19):
until the nineteenth century that they started using it as
an educational tool. Fairy tales are not consistent.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
No, there's lots of different kinds.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Right, and they reward girls who are modest obedient kind,
and also girls who lie, deceive, and disobey, and girls
who are modest obedient kind get punished, and so do
the other kinds of girls. So it's really not a
very there's no uniformity, and that is always girls, not necessarily.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
So actually have yet to read one.
Speaker 3 (49:52):
Really, Okay, so some of the one dude, the Princess
of the Pea.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, well right, that's the only one I can think of.
I think maybe you and I have a biased against
this because girls get to tend tend to get red
stories about girls.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
I mean, I only stops fables.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yeah, okay, may I remember reading about Okay, well, but
like the ones that become.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
Quote unquote fairy tale.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Uh huh, right, the ones that get co opted by Disney.
Speaker 3 (50:18):
Right, those are all the other way around, right, But
like the fables, right, that's a little bit more mixed.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Sure, But like when I think of like.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
A fairy tale, uh huh, yeah, okay, I mean maybe
Peter Pan, yeah, if you can call that a fairy tale, sure, yeah,
I don't know, yeah maybe.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
So, Well, there's the blog steal Thistles and Catherine Languish
rites for it, and she did a deep dive into
fairy tales and misogyny they're in. And it's actually very
interesting because I expected to be, like, yes, lots of misogyny,
because that's kind of what they were in flying in
(51:00):
this whole section, right, Yeah, And she says, I can't
argue that there's no misogyny in fairy tales anymore than
I can argue that it doesn't exist in real life.
But I do know that there are plenty of active,
admirable female characters in fairy tales. And she looked at
the Grimm's fairy Tales kinder Unhaus Martian, which is this
(51:24):
is children's in household tels from eighteen fifty sevens. These
are the ones that really got co opted by Disney,
right exactly, mostly yes, So they have many, many stories,
and they're about one hundred or so that fit the
actual classification as a fairy tale. And so she looked
(51:44):
to see what it means for heroes and heroines to
achieve success, and far more heroes sixty five percent opposed
to forty four percent, had magical assistance, far more men
who had magical assistance than women. That the female heroines
(52:06):
were thirty five percent likely to use luck or wit
or a ruse of some kind to achieve a goal,
as opposed to only twenty percent of heroes. Thirty five
percent of heroines used endurance to their advantage, as opposed
to just eleven percent of heroes. Only twelve percent of
(52:29):
the fairy tales had a female being saved by a male.
None had males being saved by females. They might be
saved by other males. But I thought it was interesting.
It was much different than I expected it to be,
and I really appreciated somebody having a I wonder if
we haven't been, you know, had it cherry picked a
(52:52):
little more than we realize.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
But I see straight misogyny all through that. That dated
to me.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
O misogyny.
Speaker 3 (52:59):
Oh really, okay, because a woman had to work twice
as hard as a man in every situation to be
able to achieve something. Okay, the world, the universe, whatever
it was, gave magic to the men, whereas the women
had to scrap through.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Okay, and that's fair.
Speaker 2 (53:20):
They weren't deserving of society's help. They weren't deserving of
that extra you.
Speaker 3 (53:27):
Know, that extra positive failure or that fail forward that
the hair the heroes had.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
So I see misogyny all through there.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Oh so that's interesting. Okay, I guess it's all a
matter of perspective. Well it is, but both things can
be true, right right.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
We can see that there's not so much of that
explicit kind of misogyny where it's always the women being
saved by being saved by a man and being mistreateous, helpless.
But that's not normally the misogyny we have in real life.
That's fair, that's kind of how it hit me.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
But both things, I think are it can be true.
But yeah, interesting stuff though. This is why data is fun.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah, that's right. Just incidentally, nine one one is available
in Canada. I think it is one of the countries
that uses nine one one, yes, like, along with many
others Mexico, all of North America, you know, Dominican Republic, Pakistan, Panama,
(54:35):
the Philippines. Lots of places use nine to one one.
In the UK it's nine nine nine yeah, but still
emergency services, yes, call them for help. So nepotism does
have an impact on the job market, but maybe not
quite the way you would think so. Harvard Magazine talked
(54:56):
about this in the summer of twenty twenty three, talked
to about how the American labor market is not a meritocracy,
that it's not always the most qualified candidate who gets it,
because when you have a deluge of applicants, sometimes you
just pick another employees child. Yeah. Before turning thirty. Nearly
(55:17):
one third of Americans will work at the same firm
as a parent. White men from high income families benefit
from nepotism far more than poor people, women and minorities do,
which is why I really wanted Roy her adopted father
to like step in for her. Yeah right, just do
(55:37):
the thing you would do it for Scott.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
I think that's kind of the point.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Uh huh. Yeah. However, the nepotistic economy is neither driven
by parents hiring their children at small family owned businesses,
nor by fortune five hundred CEOs getting their children internships.
It is primarily a blue collar phenomenon and is especially
prevalent in manufacturing. I guess it works there. They're going
(56:05):
to get their kid a job where they work, which
I was a little surprised at that. And now they
say nepotism is not inherently bad.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
I do.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
I have mixed feelings about it.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I do, Yeah, I mean I get that, But also
I'm like, in this day and age, she used any
advantage you can.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
And it's hard because I mean, there is something nice. Well,
first of all, it's not uncommon that a kid might
be into the same things as the parent and have
the kind of the similar qualities and skills. And then
especially if they grew up talking about it, you know
what I mean, So it's like not like unheard of
that that would be similar. But and also you as
(56:46):
long as they can still go through this training, as
long as they can go and get the education and
then show them, I don't hate the idea of that.
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Right, you know.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
But on the other hand, when they don't look else
wherever and there's no opportunity for somebody to do something
because what if their parents.
Speaker 2 (57:06):
Don't have that to give, which I.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
Think applies to at least fifty percent of not more
of our population, then that drives a divide.
Speaker 1 (57:17):
So, yeah, you're so astute. These hiring patterns have negative
consequences for productivity, diversity of representation, and equality of opportunity. Yeah,
so they tend to stay at jobs longer. Children tend
to work at the same kinds of jobs as their
(57:39):
parent of the same gender, assuming that they have a
parent of the same gender. But you know, it's like,
if dad works at this manufacturing facility, then their son's
going to go work at this manufacturing facility, and they're
less likely to leave that job. They're also less likely
to be promoted because maybe can do that job, but
(58:01):
they're not really capable of more, and they're not willing
to look elsewhere for another job because this is the
best job that they could get, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:09):
And it is weird because we have this heart for like,
oh my grandpa works here, my dad worked here, and
now I worked here, and we're.
Speaker 1 (58:16):
All like, oh, that's so beautiful. Well, this is why
surnames are the way they are, Yeah, exactly, because oh, yes,
the Smiths literally were blacksmiths, right, and it was the
family name, that was the family thing.
Speaker 3 (58:32):
But like then, right, but then what do you do
when when you need better perspectives outside opinions, you need
diversity for innovation and all of that kind of stuff.
So I think there just has to be a balance
and I don't know what it looks like. I don't
need the general or regulatory level, but I do know
that as a society we need to learn to hold
(58:53):
both of those things at the same time so that
we can weigh them.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
Sure, you know, and it's difficult to do. That's really
is why you should go to college, kids, so that
you can help way these things. Yes, on a lighter note,
is nail polish makeup?
Speaker 3 (59:08):
Oh my gosh, No, no, it's not.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
And who cares?
Speaker 1 (59:13):
Okay, I mean, for real.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
Kid is at your kitchen tap or at your dinner
table for the first time, and this is what you
want to say.
Speaker 1 (59:20):
Yeah, you want to fuss at her about nail polish,
I mean for real. So Ellis James Designs asked this
very question and they said, it's kind of a fine
line because generally makeup is to enhance your appearance, but
usually it's the face. Yeah, right, and so nail polish
(59:44):
will enhance the appearance of your nails, but it doesn't
go on your face.
Speaker 2 (59:50):
It is in the mail in makeup section.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
Okay, it's cosmetics.
Speaker 2 (59:55):
Thank you. Oh that's the word.
Speaker 1 (59:57):
That's the word. That's the word. It's cosmetics. It's not
makeup per se. It is a cosmetic as much as
like your lotion is a cosmetic. Well, even if you
might use that on your face, but you might use
it all over your body because you have skin all
over your body. Right, that's it. It's a cosmetic. It's
a cosmetic. Next time a period piece. I can't believe
(01:00:21):
that nineteen eighties are a period piece now, but here
we are about love and organized Crimes, starring Kristen Stewart
and Katie O'Brien. Love Lies Bleeding streaming now on Max.
Thank you so much for listening. We know you make
a choice when you listen to us. We don't just
come on the radio. Hey tell a friend, because it
(01:00:43):
is so much more fun when you can listen with
a friend. Hit us up on the socials and until
next time, be safe, be kind, and wash your hands.
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