ROCD - YOU Season 5

We get to visit the world of Joe Goldberg one last time. The final season of YOU is out and from literacy and to love addiction, there is so much to chat about. We are so glad Joe is fictional, but that won’t stop us from missing this character.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back to Killer Phone, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christy and
I'm Jackie and today today, Oh, I can't believe this
is the last time we get to talk about you.
We're going to talk about the first episode, season five,
Episode one, The Luckiest Guy in New York. And you

(00:31):
know what, Penn Badgely isn't going to miss Joe Goldberg,
but legions of women will are, I mean, because we
know he's messed up, but he's fictional and Badely is gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
They made him a thirst stop they did that, but
they got it.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
But they landed it. I think they landed it better
than they realized, right.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Like, yeah, right, yeah, But I say earlier this is
that that Penn became the serial killer.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
You right, we're talking about Gossip Girl.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Let me let me put that because we're talking about
Penn on Gossip Girl, uh huh. And then I was
talking about how he then he is an actor, grew
up to play Joe, the only serial killer we will
all die for.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Right, yes, exactly, exactly. Well that leads us right into
our cast. Let's talk about them real quick. So obviously
Penn Badly is Joe Goldberg. His other really big role
is Dan Humphrey and Gossip Girl. Yes, yeah, that's where
we all know and love him from.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Then we have Frankie Demayo who plays little Henry Goldberg,
Joe and Love's son, and this is his first acting role,
so good for him.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Charlotte Ritchie is Kate Lockwood, Joe's wife and CEO of
Lockwood Corporation. She's in Ghosts Yeah yeah, and Call the Midwife.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yes, I have not seen that, but so good.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's one of those that, like, you gotta be ready
to you gotta understand that it's gonna pull your heartstrings
intentionally like every episode. It's one of those shows. Yeah right,
but it's good. Griffin Matthews plays Teddy, the Lockwood brother.
He's been in another show that we've talked about, The
Flight Attendant.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Oh yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Anna Camp is Reagan Lockwood Jacobs and her twin sister,
Mattie Lockwood. She plays both of them. She looked familiar
and I couldn't quite put my finger on wine. And
it's because she's been in all three Pitch Perfect movies.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
And then Madeline Brewer is Bronte. She was in Orange
is the New Black, And of course what I know
her from best is Janine in The Handmaid's Tale, Yes,
which is on its final season right now, and is
can I just say The Handmaid's Tale is so good
this season.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
I cannot wait to start this.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
It's it's the really like culmination of all of the
other seasons having set everything up, and I cannot wait
for the Testaments.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Oh man.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
So it's like, I'm not sad the Handmaid's Tale is ending.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
Because you're ready to be because because.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
I because I know there's going to be even if
the it's not all most of the characters won't be
in the Testaments will get more of that story.

Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yay.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
So I can't wait to start that. I always have
to be in a place though, well I have to
be in a place because I get all kinds of
spun off about this. But but but but her role
there is phenomenal.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, it's phenomenal.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
So it was fun to see her well with both
eyes and and like just having get to see her
act so bubbly in certain ways, and you know, it's
fun to see these other sides of their their capabilities.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
For sure, for sure, and I having to think Melan
Burr is very pretty and very like and unfortunately she
has suffered some backlash and because people who are fans
of you did not like her as Bronte for whatever reason.
And I'm like they thought she was like not pretty

(04:38):
enough for something, and I'm like, Okay, first of all,
y'all are wrong, wrong, and second of all, shut up.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
I mean that's just so weird.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
I mean, like they're it's like they're they're critiquing the
Bond villain's girl, like the Bond girl, right, Like they're
just deciding.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Like oh no, no, no, no, the Bond.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Girls have to be a certain certain way, but.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
The blonde okay, but they're not.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
There's all kinds and so like hello, you know, I
think there are they more mad that that.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
It's not his typical type.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
So it feels out of character because the red hair maybe,
you know, like it feels like somebody he wouldn't necessarily,
but I feel like he's fallen for a lot of
different people.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
I'm sorry. I would say Madeline Brewer and the actress
who played Love are not really all that disparate in
their kind of looks, right, They're both kind of like
short women and maybe attractive, but a little less conventionally so.
And so I'm like, y'all can.

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Just yeah, I mean, I don't ye stop.

Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think they're gorgeous, all of them. They're just yeah,
they can stop right?

Speaker 3 (05:46):
All right? Shall we recap? We shall? Okay?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Joe Goldberg has returned to where we joined his story, initially,
New York City, and thanks to his now wife Kate
and her enormous wealth, not only has he been able
to reclaim the name Joe Goldberg, but he's been able
to regain custody of his son with his deceased wife,

(06:14):
love Quinn. Joe has been ever so well behaved for
three whole years in New York, and then Kate has
someone threatened to expose her secrets. They're trying to oust
her as the CEO of the huge and wealthy family
corporation after she promises substantial profits to charity without informing

(06:40):
the board before she makes a public announcement. Joe is ready,
even eager, to step back into his role of murderer.
He takes Kate's agreement that this might be the best
way to handle the situation as enthusiastic acceptance. Of who
he is deep inside. Being back in New York also

(07:00):
allows Joe to revisit Mooney's, the bookstore where he met
back all those years ago, and sees someone. It's now
owned by a Lockwood Corporation subsidiary, so Joe can decide
how he wants to proceed with it, and despite the
fact that Mooney's is closed for business, Joe finds a

(07:22):
visitor in the store.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
I had some thoughts. I had so many thoughts. Did
you have to pause as many pause to think about
your thoughts? I did add a pause to think about thoughts?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yes, yes, So most of the Joe monologue in this
first episode is directed at Joe himself, and I'm like
watching this and I'm like, has Joe learned to love
himself more than love himself?

Speaker 2 (07:50):
It was like, yes, yes, you're right. It was an
indicative moment, right.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Right, Like, because you didn't always know who he was
talking to. In the first episode of prior seasons, you
knew he was talking to someone, and almost inevitably it
ended up mostly he was talking to the object of
his affection, right, So I'm like, oh, just just Joe

(08:15):
like love himself a little more now?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
We saw it a little bit last season, a little
bit in the beginning when he was trying to be good,
because he would talk to himself about like little things
like oh nope, nope, nope, yeah, don't don't do that,
don't do that, right, and like little silly things, right,
And it wasn't like.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
This right and even this like sometimes he's talking to
Kate right in his monologue, you know, but by and
large it's to himself.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, I'm like, I self reflection, yeah, kind of thoughts.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, which I was like, okay, And then I wondered,
is Choe cl digger?

Speaker 3 (08:55):
I mean a little bit and he hasn't made.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I mean right, like because Love had a lot of
money and Beck wasn't poor, no, I mean she could
afford a pretty substantial place and she.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
Just couldn't afford curtains.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
And now Kate is really wealthy, and he really kind
of positioned himself in season four to appear to have
this wealth more so than he actually did, in order
to be able to fit in. So I'm like there
was a little bit of a gold digger, a little bit,

(09:38):
A little bit.

Speaker 3 (09:39):
I mean, I guess she'd get used to certain lifestyle. Yeah,
you do.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
The bar is so low for men. He gets called
prince charming because he got caught holding Kate's purse once
while he looked hot, And now suddenly he is prince
charming in the tabloids. The bar is so low, The
bar is so low.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
So there's a counselman causing trouble for Kate, and Joe
kind of finds it sexy that she's able to fight
her own battles. And I'm like, oh, this is another departure,
right that, Like, suddenly he's impressed by a woman who
can take care of herself, yeah, rather than feeling the

(10:27):
need to jump in. And that said, Joe really really
wants to kill the councilman because he quote unquote likes
killing assholes. Yes, And I had two thoughts on that.
First of all, takes one to know.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
One, uh huh.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
And also, he's not a reformed serial killer so much
as a dormant one. Yes, he's merely on hiatus here.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
He really is. Yeah, he doesn't have a code. No.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
That was my big thought was, like, listen, he's not
tirs to me like he needs a code. Like he
can live a pretty decent life if we just get
him a code that could last for a much longer time, right,
and we could we could do something here he's doing a.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Little BTK, like you know, like this seventy serial killers
who like had time to be serial killers and also
like have a job and a family, and you know like, okay,
well this is why he has to be a gold digger.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yeah, right, I mean opening moon is I think that
was my thought was like okay, we really are coming
full circle, like he's gonna come back at that's like closure,
you know, that's that looking for retelling the story or
at least finishing the story so it makes sense, you know, right,
Like I was like, oh, that's that would be an
interesting way to go, right to see like can he

(11:49):
end up being a managed serial killer?

Speaker 3 (11:52):
Will they give him a code? Will they let him
just be dormant? Yeah? Let him just heal? Yeah, Like
what would happen? Because his killing is an addiction?

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, so I mean now that he feels seen and
accepted and all that stuff really and no need for it, right,
but you know, people.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
But then but then Kate, I was really mad at Kate,
really really.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Mad because I reckon, well, okay, maybe I'm critiquing the
writing a little bit. He was dormant. They set everything
up to look like it. Well, she asks him to
do this, and that breaks the seal. Yeah, then she
didn't know what she was getting into with it, and
so she has all kinds of feelings and doesn't realize
the gravity of asking somebody like Joe to do this.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right because partly because he hadn't been completely honest. No,
of course not right, of course not, but like she
still did it.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
She still asked somebody to do that for her, right, right,
knowing that he had done it in the past to survive.
And I'm kind of like, if you if somebody tells
you I've done that.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
She's not dumb.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
She knew there was more to that story, and she
just didn't want to hear it, right.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
She wanted to pretend the rest of the story didn't exist,
instead of you know, being this strong woman who can
take care of her on her.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Past in the past, right like fresh start, except when
she needed something.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, and then she used him and then and then
from there that's where maybe I take issue with the writers.
But okay, you know, they used.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
That as a as a way to open it up,
like Okay, now she has feelings and like she's not
doing so well with it, and now he doesn't have feelings,
and now she's blaming him, so he doesn't feel seen anymore.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
Well, addiction's back. Yeah, find a new, a new hit
of it.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
We're going to get so like, oh, I was mad
at Kate for opening the door again, but also I was.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Like, I don't know, it felt like a cheap trick.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Oh, okay, you feel like it was.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Not Maybe maybe I don't know, it felt like a
cheap bait and switch. Okay, that's fair that we feel
like we're seeing Joe change. Oh no, no, no, not
at all.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
But I mean that's I mean, that's why we don't
get the story when they first get back to New York, right,
because you know, there was no impetus, there was nothing
happening at that point. Yeah exactly, But this is why
we're joining up when we are, right exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I just felt like it was so fat, Like I
don't know, yeah, maybe I'm just sad.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
That's maybe I'm just also fair.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
I was like, oh, wait, you mean the rich white
family didn't like the black gay result of an affair.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Half brother Teddy.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
I'm like shocking that they thought they could just ignore
him indefinitely, like okay, And I really do love when
they call out the long pauses when Joe is narrating, uh,
because he's not saying anything and I've posted him before

(15:08):
We've talked about you in the past where they show, oh, like,
what did it look like when there was no narration happening?
And it's just like people sitting and staring at one
another for thirty to sixty seconds and they call it out.
Teddy and Joe go to talk to Reagan and she's like,
she calls it out. She's like, you're just here is

(15:30):
moral support or something like that, like like why are
you even here if you're not going to say anything?

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
And then Joe is writing a very sinister fantasy and
it was like, oh, is that kind of a healthy
coping yeah? Or is it careful planning?

Speaker 3 (15:49):
Well, it turned out to be it turned out to
be uh huh. I guess that's again.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Maybe I saw a different direction that could have been
super unique. Yeah, if we were going to close the
series like, yeah, you know when the hunted becomes well,
and they did do that, he becomes the Hunted.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I wanted him to become.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
The prey right in this whole thing, right, so, and
eventually it does happen, and it does happen, though HY.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
Just felt like I took a little I don't know.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
But he is the hunter in this episode, and I
was like, as he's stalking that prey, he notices a
camera and realizes it's just for show, that it's got
a chord and it's not connected to anything, And I
was like, why would any camera in this dan age
be just for show?

Speaker 3 (16:41):
It still works.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
I'm like, well, I mean yes, but they're affordable, they're
easy to install, and you can store unlimited video in
the cloud. The prey is not only manipulative, which is
why he's the prey.

Speaker 3 (17:01):
But he's cheap.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, I'm like, you're a very wealthy man, like.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
You could fix this. He could. He definitely could fix that.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Those camera there's no reason for the I mean, you
can get the ones that just like screw into your
outdoor light that are a camera, Like, come on.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
It's true, come on, man. He doesn't want a camera though.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
He doesn't want anybody to see who's coming and going, probably,
but he wants the security of it. But also like Okay,
you know what, you can have that wiped.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Yeah, it's still it's still a risk, right is it.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
I mean, I know, arguably having connected to nothing is
bigger risk.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
I mean clearly clearly have a backdoor, dude.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
So they've kind of great pains to kind of show
that Joe and Kate are kind of happy, right like
that they're He is sweet to her and in the
public eye and darlings, and he admires her strength but
also is eager to help her.

Speaker 3 (18:10):
When he can. But we can see that he's a
little bored.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
He's bored and clear I mean fair, I mean right, yeah,
Like he's not even getting to help a partner the
way a normal not serial killer would like.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
To be, right right exactly. And then you know, enter Bronte,
whom he has caught in the store once, already knew
how she got in, and didn't fix the problem to
keep her from getting in because he wanted to see
her again.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
He liked it, and the timing was impeccable, yes, of course,
because the seal is broken.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Uh huh, that's right, Yeah, that's right. If we're gonna
we're gonna break one role, let's breakable.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yep. Yep. It was largely filmed in New York.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah right, I mean it's pretty clear that that's where
it is. We see Joe and Kate in the tabloids
and stuff at restaurants. It's Tavern on the Green where
they're at, which is very well known. So Henry's school
it's in the show. It's called the Blaisely School, but
it's filmed at the exterior of a private all girls

(19:24):
Catholic school called Saint Jean Baptiste High School. Just for
giggles and grins, it costs to start thirteen five hundred
dollars a month. What to have a child go there?

Speaker 3 (19:39):
What?

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, that's not a year, that's a month per month.
That's a very expensive education.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
And then the bookstore that's Mooney's. It is now and
was before Logo's Bookstore in Manhattan, but it's a much
more then Mooney's. Not that the books and Mooneyes were
particularly salacious, but Logos specializes in religious texts and children's books.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
It sounded that way because when you said that, I
was like, I wonder, I wonder if because logos is
the word, right, yes.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
So I'm like, oh, I wonder if if.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
But before you got there, I was like, oh, I
wonder if they say logos right, and it's like the yeah,
religious connotation, Yes it is. I did hear some cool
there's some cool interviews with Penn Badgely because a lot
of the internal sets, right, the sound stages like that
were the same as Gossip Girl. Oh fine, So the

(20:46):
loft is the bookstore really sound stage, the like their apartment.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
Like Lily, the like the dad like Lily, Serena's mom.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, and all of that. I think, what did he
say that was? What did that turn out to be?

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (21:06):
No, that was the cage? Oh okay, Like anyway he
went through it. But it's like he lived there his
entire twenties. He spent on Gossip Girl his entire thirties.
Basically he's spent on you same sound stage, Wow, same spaces.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Not wild, That is wild.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
I thought that him. It feels like home.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
What's he going to do in his forties on the
round stage? Like we need to find a Penn Badgely
multi year project for the same same.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
Day she just moved pod crushed over there right there
you go, yes go.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
But I thought that was so interesting because sore that's
so rare in today's world, you know, like the studios
aren't the whole Hollywood studios like that people spent their
entire life on one right stage, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (21:54):
That's kind of wild.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Uh huh? Yeah, I mean so few people stay at
a job for oh yeah, not to mention, right, yeah,
I mean yeah. I mean I get that these are
different jobs for different companies and whatever.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
But still to be able to be in that same location.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
That's wild.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
It's just bad.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
So I have resources, but I'm not gonna talk about
them yet, okay, because they come later.

Speaker 4 (22:21):
I know.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
I don't want to ruin stuff. I love it. So
here's how it works. Christie erects her search history. Hey
an essay.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
We promise it's nothing more nefarious than a podcast to
find out what's true some of the psychological motivations behind
the character's actions and real life applications that relate to
our topic. I have no idea what Christy decided to
look up could be the same thing that captured my
curiosity or something I never thought of.

Speaker 3 (22:51):
Is it true?

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Obviously no, no, But there are some things to fact check,
and I do have a really fun life Easter egg
at the end of this section that I am excited about.
So Joe quotes Thomas Wolf, you Can't Go Home Again?
Is the quote accurate?

Speaker 3 (23:10):
I don't know. I don't think so. I think it's
half half correct, Okay, but I hear it a lot.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Well, it actually was a novel. It was not just
a quote. It was a whole novel by Thomas Wolf.
But it was published posthumously and he didn't give it
that title.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
I was like, there had I knew there was something
to this this.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Thing, right.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
So there was a book that Thomas Wolf wrote called
The Web in the Rock, and then he had an
unpublished manuscript for the sequel to that, which he called
The October Affair. But it was massive, huge, like very
very big, and so they pulled parts of that out

(24:00):
and created You Can't Go Home Again and another book
called The Hills Beyond. So that's how big this mating
script was that they pulled two books out of it
and still had leftovers.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, You Can't Go Home Again is a critique of capitalism,
and the books protagonist, George Weber, had this revelation you
can't go back home to your family, back home to
your childhood, back home to a young man's dream of
glory and fame, back home to the places in the country,

(24:35):
back home to old forms and systems of things which
once seemed everlasting but which are changing all the time,
back home to escapes of time and memory. Like you
change and the place you came from change, and you
think that the place you came from is never going
to change, and you think that you can become who

(24:58):
you were in your youth again. You really can't go
home again. No, so oh, well, you know, Joe tried.
He made the same mistakes that everyone else a second time,
well everyone else does, but also a second time in
New York I mean, yeah, or sixth time in New York.
I mean depending on yeah, I don't even know, you

(25:18):
know whatever.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
But he needed to go back there. It should have.
He could have. Yeah, he should have. Like most people,
I don't know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
I'm not a big fan of like the house that
built me kind of mentality of I need to go
home to be able to like find that closure. I'm
not a big one because I that's just not how
I operate. I understand for a lot of people, but
for so many people, it can be like it's elusive.
You don't get because you can't go home. You don't
get what you really need out of you out of it. Usually,

(25:47):
unless your attitude is of a certain way, it can
almost just be more harmful because it just opens more
and more and more wounds and it becomes catastrophic for you.
Unless you had a cage in the basement that you
were kept in, maybe yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, maybe go back.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
And yeah, I grieve that because he never realized how
awful and abusive that was.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
I mean he kind of did, but not in a
way that informed him enough to not traduce.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Somebody else exactly exactly, because for him, that cage was safety. Yeah,
and that's that's the I'm like, nope, nope, the counselor
needs to go back with you, no acount. It's full on,
like very wise end and seasoned professional psychologist and maybe

(26:38):
a whole team of medical professionals.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Well yeah, and you know, perhaps it should be a
impatient situation.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yes, and we take a visit exactly, we talk about
how this is not okay.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, Joe's that Kate taught him that relationships don't always
have to be all s germaned drang, Like what even
is that? I mean, you get it from context, but like,
what is that?

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Well it's German literally for storm and stress. Oh okay,
and it's kind of a generic according to Webster, synonym
for turmoil. Now, okay, okay. But originally it was a
reference to a German literary movement in the eighteenth century,

(27:35):
and they had a lot of action and high emotions
and individuals rebelling against the injustices of society. So I'm like, okay,
well I can see where he's like. He is like,
I have to rebel against society to kill these people
because they're going to harm my love, and sometimes I

(27:58):
also have to kill my love.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Yes, because they but I don't know, yeah, because suddenly
they're a threat.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah yeah, well yeah, clearly. But also I don't even
think even the ones who weren't trying to be a threat.
Love should have been the perfect love, like not love,
the concept love.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
The person should have been his perfect match.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Yes, the fact is that they couldn't bond over it,
because that meant that she was always a threat of
hunting him, like they couldn't even when it should have been.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yes, even when they should have been able to like
bond over it and work together, but they were both
so individualistic about it and wanting to God's mess anyway,
it was a mess. It was a mess. Is illiteracy

(28:50):
a problem for kids in foster care? Like Kate said
at the dinner where she promised a lot of the
Lockwood proceeds to charity.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I mean, yeah, it's a problem with the board, and
I would say, yeah, it's worse in foster here.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Uh huh. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
So that Anie Casey Foundation has a lot of statistics
and information about that. They also have some resources on
their website, so it's a good place to look. But
because kids in foster care, they tend to move a lot,
so they have like disruptions in their education, and they

(29:29):
also have a lot of stress and trauma from ending
up in the foster care system. Nobody ends up there
because you know, yeah there was there was nothing bad
that happened. It can really impact their education. And I
couldn't find specifically literacy rates, but in the US, in

(29:51):
the US, eighty seven percent of public high school students
graduate in four years. Right, Typically they're seventeen or eighteen.
Kids who are in foster care. It's only seventy one
percent wow, who graduate in four years. And many of
them if they don't get it, if they're in foster

(30:14):
care at seventeen, they don't get a GED or high
school diploma by the time they're twenty one. Like, so
if they don't get it on the regular four year
time schedule, they're less they're pretty unlikely.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
To get it at all.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Right, Kids who were in foster care at seventeen, by
the time they're twenty one, twenty percent of them have
no degree of any kind, not a diploma, a high
school diploma, not an associate's degree. A lot of kids
aren't gonna end up with a bachelor's degree by the
time they're twenty one. But you know, like they're not

(30:53):
even like on their way, right or anything like that, right,
And kids who were in foster care at seventeen when
they're anyone, only fifty six percent of them have a
job of any kind. Yeah, it's really bad. And it
actually turns out that if you're under the age of twelve,
you actually have better outcomes if you end up in

(31:15):
foster care, either because you're adopted or reunited with a
family member who's now equipped to care for you. Only
sixteen and a half percent of kids who are under
the age of twelve when they enter into the foster
care system emancipate, which means they outgrow the foster care system,

(31:37):
whereas almost eighty four percent of kids who enter after
the age of twelve emancipate. It's really really tough, And
if you know a kid who's aging out of foster care,
there are a few simple things that you can really
do to help them, which is, help them find educational
and vocational training options for them, help them figure out

(32:01):
how to get that ged, help them figure out how
to get some training for some kind of job, and
help them set up bank accounts.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
Oh man, like all like these things yet, like it's
the little things, right.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
I do have some resources though, so. The National Foster
Youth Institute, the NFYI dot org. Hard to remember, but
I'll have it on our social media has some statistics
and resources. A few more sad statistics. Twenty thousand kids
will age out of foster care every single year, twenty

(32:36):
percent of them will end up unhoused for at least
a time, and twenty five percent will be in jail
within two years. Yeah, so it's not great. Only three
to four percent of kids who've aged out of foster
care will end up with a bachelor's degree, and between

(32:57):
two and six percent will get an associate's degree. It's
under ten percent of kids. It's really sad, but there
are resources to help. At least currently. I have to
say that in the United States, thirty five states have
some sort of statewide post secondary aid for people who

(33:20):
were involved in the foster care system. Twenty four of
those have a statewide tuition waiver. We have this in
Texas that if you're in the foster care system and
you get a high school diploma, or you've been adopted
in the foster care out of the foster care system
into a home, you can get a complete tuition waiver

(33:44):
at a state school. So if you can get in,
you can go, and it's great. You do have to
enroll in a school by a certain age for most
of these, So if you know a kid, please help them,
let them know that there's they don't have to not
go to school because they think they can't afford it.

(34:07):
There are options for them, and this is really like
lifting them out. So seven states have a state funded
scholarship program for kids, so kids maybe a little redundant
in her So I would say, yeah, right, because New

(34:28):
York is one of these, yeah that has like New
York State, Yes, New York State has funded scholarships for
people who've been in foster care. Now I could really
appreciate the we're going to help make sure that the
kids in foster care are as stable as they can
be and as literate as they can be so that

(34:48):
they can take advantage.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Of these because you do have to be able to
get it right. You have to be able to get in.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
And then lots of other states and the District of
Columbia have educational vouchers, so it's a little it's not
as comprehensive and not as direct, but there's still some
help out there to be able to get some kind
of training.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Yeah, utilize those resources help those kids in foster care. Yes, No,
I mean probably nobody listenings in foster care. If they
were in foster care, they've probably beyond the age which
they could take utilize these services.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
But oh my gosh, volunteer, big brother, big sisters.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
Yes, those are the ways you can help people in
foster care as well as you know, people who need
to help.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Who are not in foster care.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Right, absolutely, Yeah, So Kate's half sister, Reagan got a
job in the mail room to work her way up
and show that she could be a high up in
Lockwood Corporation on her own merits. Can this be done?

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Okay, this is a story that they use alas start
out of the mail room.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
I mean we see it in like better call Saul,
right like he's I started in the mailroom and that,
but it didn't work for him either.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Yeah, it's a it's a whole like it's a trope.
I've seen yours.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
I say trope just because it's almost like a cliche
of writing. Like, but I do think it probably has
some truth, but not anymore. I think it's it was
true way back when when things were smaller, when industry,
you know, at the start of the Industrial Revolution, maybe
at the start of the technological evolution.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Right yeah, yeah, I yes, kind of okay, you can
kind of do this now. Reagan quote unquote working her
way up from the mail room. I'm like, I'm sorry.
You had an Ivy League education yea, and you were
literally the company founder's daughter. People were looking at you

(36:53):
so even if you like worked hard and do all
that stuff, you just didn't do it on your own merit.
You you still you were still being watched and seen.
And that's kind of the issue recruiter dot com is
can you still work your way up from the mail
room and you know.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Because college degrees are expensive.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, right, and not everybody has the means to be
able to do that or figure out a way to
handle that. Unfortunately, working in the mailroom or whatever equivalent
there is now, right, because the mail rooms are not
the mass employer that they used to be, because even

(37:36):
big companies, I mean, there's a lot of email, a
lot of other ways to communicate stuff. There's a lot
less mail room specific things happening. But there are like
equivalents in different kinds of companies where it's like basically
a job that you don't need a lot of experience
to get into.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Okay, right, well not even entry level, but it's yes, yeah,
like a menial job, right, like support level right right.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Unfortunately, when you end up in those positions, you're way
off leadership's radar. You are not seen very much. However,
you may be able to hear about jobs before they're advertised,
to the public. Yeah, so that is like your foot
in the door. But you can't just like do your
job in the mailroom and expect to move up. You

(38:27):
actually really have to be very committed to your job.
You have to show yourself as a leader. You have
to find ways to make your job more efficient or
have a really good idea that solves a problem, and
you have to have your ways of being able to
make yourself seen and stand out. That can be challenging

(38:50):
for people, and they did suggest one of the best
ways to get promoted is to find yourself an internal mentor.
But you do have to have a fairly sizable organization
to be able to do that. Ye're not going to
be able to do that in little smaller right.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
Yeah, that's interesting, right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
But also I'm like, she worked her way up from
the mailroom, Like, give me a break.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
I mean, she did the work, she did the one
to help where she's from, right, But she can't claim
it the same way.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
It's not like she went to work at a company
that wasn't her family's company and worked her way up
from the mail room.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
She didn't work her way up, but she did take
the time to learn every bit right, okay, which I know.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
And I don't fault her for that, but saying she
worked her way up from the mail room to the
CEO of the company, I'm like, I'm sorry. You had
an inside man the whole time, and he was your dad.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
Yeah, exactly, exactly, all right.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
So there's a magazine that's about to run a store
about Kate's indiscretions in the past, and Teddy has a
source at that magazine that follows him around Equinox. I'm like,
what is Equinox? Do you know what Equinox is?

Speaker 3 (40:14):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (40:15):
It is a real company and is a luxury fitness
club that is has its headquarters in New York City.
It has forty one locations in New York City. Wow,
it has about three hundred in total. But these are, like,
I think, the nicest club that you could possibly go to,

(40:37):
and this is it. They first opened in nineteen ninety one,
and then in twenty eleven they launched a separate fitness
company in order to be able to purchase soul Cycle.
So soul Cycle is part.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Of Equinox, okay.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And then in twenty nineteen they launched hotels.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Oh well, I.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Guess most hotels have a fitness room. So I guess
that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Diversified.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I mean whatever, whatever, they're all about luxury. They've been
around a long time, they're very popular. Okay, so that's.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
What Equinox was. It makes sense.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
I wasn't sure if it was a club or what
it was. I just yeah, all right, So here's my
little Easter egg.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
So Kate's half sister, Maddie, who was Reagan's twin, was
addicted to her phone and really obvious about the past code.
So Joe knew it right. Okay, so the past coode
is nine zero eight six nine.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Okay. That is a.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Billing code for insurance for transcranial magnetic stimulation, which treats
major depressive disorder, which you will see later is something
that Maddie struggles with. She has some, you know, some issues.

(42:07):
So I'm like, oh, that's like a line that doesn't eat.
I think that is an Easter egg definite. Because it's
also a weird number of digits for an iPhone code.
It is usually they're four or six. Yes, that that's five.

(42:28):
So I was like, oh, look at that. They're hinting
at something. I'm like, I wonder who on the writing
staff has seen the billing code for transcranial magnetic stimulation,
which is also known as electroshock therapy, right, and a
lot of circles.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
That's colloquially what it's called.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
But but they got the idea and just went looked
it up.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, probably why should her password be?

Speaker 1 (42:58):
All of the sources that we used to inform our
discussion here on Killer Fun Podcast can be found on
our social media. Join us on Facebook at Killer Fun Podcast,
exploring the intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find
us on Twitter at Killer Funpod, or you can send
us an email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com and

(43:19):
I'd be happy to share a link to whatever information
you're looking for. We love to hear from you. You
might learn a little something too. Psychology break all right,
Joe's fictional So I can armchair diagnose that, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
With the relationship OCD, relationship OCD.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
There is a subset of obsessive compulsive disorder that is
specific to relationships, and symptoms include intrusive thoughts about your
relationship or your partner, always worrying about whether your partner
really loves you, an excessive concern about their happiness, distracted

(44:02):
and unable to focus because you're thinking about your relationship
or your partner. And in order to be diagnosed with this,
according to very well mind, it must interfere with your
basic ability to function, right right, Yes, yeah, there are
typically two kinds that they're not mutually exclusive to one another.

(44:24):
There's relationship focused, which is centered around the relationship itself
and worrying about that, and then there's partner focused, where
you're looking at your partner's specific individual characteristics. You can't
cure it, because there's no cure for OCD, but you
can treat it, and you treat relationship OCD the same

(44:47):
way you do. You're more conventional OCD.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
I just never heard it. I never heard it said
that way. Yeah, you know it's OCD, right, but the
the focus could be anything in this case, relationships or partners,
right Like.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
That's a yeah, and so I kind of think of
it that way.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
So I never thought about calling it relationship, you know,
you know, as opposed to like cleanliness OCD, right right, Like,
I don't think about it that way, right, But it
does make sense.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
It feels good to say it that way, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Gives it more of a fine point so that when
you're in your psychotherapy you can pinpoint that more exactly,
and medication you can help, Like I don't know if
there's a different medication.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
There would be it's OCD.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, then there's just whatever whatever it is, whatever the
intrusive thoughts and the propulsions happen to be, so you
would treat them almost all of them all the same,
unless there's something particular, like you know, for cleanliness, there
might be like literal physical problems with dry peeling hands right,
certain washing or using chemical and whatever or like other

(46:01):
kind of things like that. It would be like the
day to day coping, right, Like your coping mechanisms might
look a little different, but your overall like treatment it's
going to be somewhat similar no matter what medication wise,
probably as well, unless there's something comorbid happening right right right.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
And but it just poses its own significant kinds of
challenges because you've got not that other sorts of O
c D other with another focus wouldn't impact your partner.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
But this is like really pressure partner.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah, so there there would have to be something right
it's happening if it's impacting the partner if the partner
even knows.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Right, Yeah, and so it's there's got to be interesting.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Yeah, and that's really interesting. Yeah, exist, Yeah, because of
the the thought that you might have intrusive thoughts and
things the same way that somebody might have, or other rituals.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
And things like that.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
But yeah, or towards relationships in general. Uh huh, Yeah,
is interesting, troubling. I'd be like im media comorbid attachment problems.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Making this cocktail.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yes, right, and then maybe let's mix in a little
love addiction too. I mean, this is it's controversial and
really highly debated, but there are signs. Addictioncenter dot com
has an article about love addiction specifically, where you need

(47:35):
to be in love. You want your romantic partner to
have certain opinions about you. You put them on a
pedestal as well, you have certain thoughts about them, you
obsess over them. You might have craving or withdrawal if
they're not there. You need to fall in love. Often

(47:56):
you have an inability to be alone. I think we
see a lot of these things with Joe. It can
be caused by genetics or trauma or you know, nothing.
There's a lot of risk factors, but not all of
them are particularly indicative. So there are four types of

(48:17):
love addiction dynamic. So you have the people who are
obsessed and they struggle with detaching from partners. I don't
know that Joe has a particularly hard time detaching from
partners once he feels like the relationship has come to
an end. He just has a problem with detaching them

(48:38):
from everything else as well.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, Then you have the ambivalent addict, and they actually
are addicted to the illusion of a relationship, but they
avoid true intimacy. I don't think we see that in
Joe either. What we see in Joe is a combination
of the other two, which is codependent love addicts who
are really looking for their own self worth within the

(49:05):
confines of a relationship, and narcissistic love addicts who put
themselves place of power in their relationship. And I think
that's really like what we see happening with Joe is
he's like, it's all about me and I'm great, but
also I'm only worthy if somebody loves me, and yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
And that's that's the hard part of narcissism, the idea
that they are actually lacking that self worth, right, even
though we think of them as being.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Self obsessed self obsessed, right, and they are, but for
different reasons.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
And there's definitely some talk and some research coming out
about different types of narcissism that there are definitely the
types of narcissism, like where somebody really does think that
they are the absolute back chips, right, and they are
everything and they are God.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Is like that grandiose versus the other type of narcissism, that.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Is, they're a void and so they're like a black hole,
always sucking everything in. So it is all about them,
but it's because they're empty. This is the other one
that's all about them because they're God. Right, I like
to put it in very binary terms. Right, there's there's
this idea that, okay, there might be different types of
That's where like love addiction gets a lot of flack,
is that it is a thing. It's like a it's

(50:21):
like a concept. It's a way to define like this
thing that's happening. But like it it's because there's this
like mix of personality disorder, attachment disorder problems, bad schemas
and love maps and it's just like this.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
It's a it's a storm. Yes, it is a storm.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
It's not necessarily addiction the way we think of addiction,
for for substance abuse and those kinds of things, but
the outcome is the same, right, So it looks so
it's made up of different things, but it still looks like.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Uh huh addiction.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Well that's interesting because there is a scholarly article called
Addicted to Love?

Speaker 3 (51:02):
What is love.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Addiction and when should it be treated? Which I was like, Oh,
that's very interesting because we're all kind of seeking love.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
I mean, we all love the feeling of being in love.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Absolutely, yeah, and in like normal romantic relationships, there is
a chemically and behaviorally analogous addiction.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
It's like it's almost like addiction the way the average
person feels love, particularly in the beginning, right yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, we get the shot of dopamine, like increased our
serotonin levels, we get the pleasure reward circuit is activated.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
Right.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah, it's pretty ordinary for somebody to fall in love
and have these sort of like similar addictive qualities, right right,
And that it's even maybe like basic social attachments that
help that mimic addiction. Yeah, right, like even in normal,
under normal circumstances. So when you take a like a

(52:10):
a narrow view of love addiction. You're going to see
it as normal love but with abnormal brain processes. Right,
So it's not just that you feel this way you
might not be addicted to something, but also but you

(52:34):
can still take pleasure in it the same way that
addicts are initially right, right, the initial feeling like you
might not be addicted to it, but somebody else is.
And these are kind of normal. But it only becomes
abnormal when your brain processes don't they're detrimental to you

(52:56):
living your life.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Right, yeah, right, I mean because we always we get
everybody gets the bump right right when you're in love
or when you and do fun things.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
But for people who are more prone to addiction have
a vulnerability of addiction either they have low serotonin low dopamine,
so when they get the bump, they actually finally feel
normal and that creates a need for it, right right,
or other things, you know, but you know, other other

(53:25):
ways that we get addicted to it. But yeah, but
not everybody has addictive personality, like you know, I.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Like, right, yeah, it's really about it being maladaptive and
then like recognizing that if you can move into a
mature love from the immature love, which the immature love
tends to be what is more similar to addiction. Right,

(53:52):
if you can move beyond that where you know, you
continue to have loving feelings towards somebody, but they can
grow and everybody self esteem rises, and you're not obsessed
with the fidelity of the other partner, right, that that
tends to be immature love. If you get stuck in

(54:13):
that immature love, that's the only thing that gives you
the the the rush or whatever, and you feel like
you constantly need that, and that's an abnormal brain process
and you should probably treat that. Now, the broad view
of it is that basically you can't be addicted to

(54:34):
love because we need it, we need emotional relationships, and
that all appetites for anything that we like are actually
just weak addictions.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
See, and this is yes, thank you, I'm so glad
so because yes, the problem is that's the big discussion.
How can you be addicted to something that you are
hardwired to need, that's a drive and all of that.
And I think the thing is do we call it
addiction or do we call it impulse control?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Sure issues?

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Right?

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Is it addiction or is it as the perfect word maladaptive,
you know, growth to control ourselves, right, right, And so
that we can you know, I don't know, have a
sustained kind of level of pleasure, and that we can
like delay gratification, well and all.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Of these things. And do we call it addiction or
do we call it grow up? Right? And you didn't
grow up and we have an issue, right.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Yeah, Yeah, These researchers do argue that there is some
cases where love addiction actually really does need to be treated, yeah, right,
because it is unhealthy right to a particular person, that
it's basically keeping you from living healthy, normal sort of existence.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
No, I mean it's true.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
I mean I think it's like hard because things, it
might require treatment, even if you don't call it addiction,
right right, Like people deserve to be treated for anything
that's causing them harm, right right. But if it's not addiction,
we need to treat it differently when we do addiction.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Right, right. But it may be addiction, it could be,
but it may not.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Based on some people's view of the research, right, it
could be addiction right right.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
But and some people need to label it that in
order to be able to handle it. So, for example,
Michelle Koons wrote an article for psych Central about what
sobriety looks like for a love addict when she is one, okay, right,
and so it's kind of interesting, right, like it can.

(56:55):
It's love addictions kind of similar to gambling, shopping, sex
because it's a process addiction, right, and you need to
learn what healthy love is without following it into obsessive behaviors. Right,
that's where the obsessive, compulsive and the addiction kind of

(57:17):
merge and come together. But it's not as simple as
just saying I'm not going to drink anymore.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Well, right, because you need love and you need social interactions.
How can you avoid it?

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Uh huh?

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
So she has found, with the help of a professional,
that when she is quote unquote not sober from her
love addiction, she obsesses about other people's thoughts and attitudes
and behaviors, how she is being perceived by others. She
neglects her self care, she doesn't enforce boundaries, she has

(57:58):
fantastical thinking. She's abdicating responsibility for her own needs. Okay,
but sobriety is kind of different for her that she
is paying attention to what she wants and needs. She
takes care of herself. She realizes she's one hundred percent

(58:18):
responsible for her own happiness, security, and other needs. Right
that it's not somebody else doing this to her. It's
her own decisions that she needs to make to help her.
And she does things like journal and meditate, read inspiring things.
She has a support system in place. Right if somebody

(58:38):
who understands what she's going through, sleep, healthy, eating, exercise,
things like that all are helpful. So the normal sorts
of things that you would probably do with addiction are
the same things that can help.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
But ask a professional for her. Yes, by all means,
please please real life.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Okay, So Bronte misquoted Emily Dickinson to Joe.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
It's a real poem.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
I felt a cleaving in my mind, as if my
brain had split. I tried to match it seem by seam,
but could not make it fit the thought behind. I
strove to join unto the thought before, but sequence raveled
out of reach like balls upon the floor. I'm like, oh, yeah,
what a nice poetic way to talk about mental distress.

(59:31):
I mean yeah, right, Like there's just there's no resolution
in it.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
It's like I was like, that's when you're pulled two ways.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Yeah, they're just you can't you can't make them cohesive
in some.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Way, which is all we ever want, right is.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
All we just all we want to be, like, to
be congruent, to be to have continuity, to have that
the story makes sense.

Speaker 3 (59:57):
We cannot.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
We as humans, we do not do well when the
story doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
No, we just do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
If we can't fix it together, if we can't make
it right forwards and back, then we can't. It's it's
hard to deal with. And that's you know, interesting, because
that's what Bronte is trying to do the whole season. Yep,
She's trying to figure out how to make things fit
together that do not fit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Together, do not fit together, And so what you end
up doing is telling yourself a different story.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
If it's done healthy, we can call that reframing. If
it's not healthy, we can call that rationalization. Which is
why reframing is hard.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
You never know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
I don't think we ever know whether we're reframing or
whether we're just rationalizing, you know, but holding two different
things in our head, We're not good at that. Learning
that you can have two different thoughts that are that
are opposite in our head being comfortable with that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
It's really challenging. Yeah, it's really important if you can
do it, though, it's it can be really helpful to
really understand that, Okay, these things don't fit together. These
don't fit together, but they're both true.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
But they're both.

Speaker 2 (01:01:12):
True, and like living in that until you can figure
until it resolves itself, or until you can figure it
out like in her case, you know, like she's there
to hunt Joe right, to get revenge.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
But also he's hot, and he's.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
Yeah exactly, I mean because he's hot, and because he's thoughtful.
I know, he's so like thoughtful, because he's got disordered
thinking about relationships.

Speaker 3 (01:01:43):
Because he's a con man.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
You know, like of course you love him, he's a
con man, so like enjoy it and then kill him.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
I mean why he does it? I mean, I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
She had to know going in right that then she
questioned everything because he is a con man.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Of course she did, because who wouldn't want that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
But I love that because okay, okay spoiler alerts. Okay,
at the very end, when she's looking at him and
there's that scene where you're looking up at her and
the stars are behind her, and she was Like that's
when the story made sense, right, That's when she figured out, like,
it does feel this good to be looked at this way.

(01:02:30):
That's amazing, right, and I wonder if if you know,
feel this loves right before and it is amazing, but
also it's not it's not coming from the right place.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
And like that's when her mind was made up. That's
when her story was congruent.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
She understood that, Yeah, it feels really really good to
be like this, but also he is a bad person.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Yeah before justice has to be served, right, Yes, done,
she did it. Yeah, she got it there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yeah, okay, spoiler alert, done all right, And then Kate
tried to take her company into a more philanthropic way.
There are companies that actually do this, maybe not to
the degree, not anymore, not so much anymore, but too Yeah.

(01:03:21):
So Black Coffee b l q K Coffee was founded
by a former NFL player, Justin Watson, and they ethically
source all of their coffee to the like only one
percent of all coffee in the world is sourced this way,

(01:03:44):
and they are there. That's important to them. And they
pour ten percent of their profits back into black communities
to help access to education and food justice so like,
so you don't have people in food deserts and opportunity

(01:04:04):
gaps that are in those communities to help bring them
together Toms. We've all heard shoes. They are the original
one for one where they donate a pair of shoes
for every pair purchased. They actually have changed that a
little bit. Now that's not what they do anymore. They
found that giving a third of their profits to organizations

(01:04:29):
that help mental health, ending gun violence, and providing access
to opportunity is more helpful. So like, I appreciate that
they were willing to evolve right where they saw the
need bombas sock. Of course, they still do donate socks

(01:04:49):
from every pair purchased. Would they donate a pair two
at risk communities? Warby Parker the glasses company, Uh huh.
Every pair that they sell, every pair of glasses they sell,
they donate a pair to someone in need because there
are billions of people literally around the world who kneed
glasses and cannot get access to them. Birdie Gray makes

(01:05:14):
bridesmaids dresses and they make it really easy. Well, first
of all, they're pretty affordable. They're stylish and affordable and
very size inclusive. And then they make it super easy
if you're not going to wear that dress again, to
donate it to the Princess Project, which provides prom dresses
to yeah, high schoolers who couldn't otherwise be able to

(01:05:38):
afford a dress to be able to go to prom.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
So it's really cool. And then of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Course Ben and Jerry's yes, they still donate seven and
a half percent of their annual profits to philanthropy. So
and there's lots more, but those are the ones that
is going to highlight.

Speaker 3 (01:05:55):
State, which is great.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
I love right, I love that too, like do good.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Do good work.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Yeah, it's it's so much more helpful because you they
have eyes on the ground to where they.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
Want to be able to help, and that's just it's great.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Well, and I really appreciate the let's support organizations already
doing this work, right, rather than creating our own, which
is kind of what the Lockwood Corporation was doing. Was
they were kind of creating a redundancy.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Right yeah, right, I mean yes.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
I mean, let's support organizations that already know how to
do the work well, right, right.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yes, Like unless you are there has to be something
unique there should have been yeah, yeah, she should have
just been supporting other people, they're so right they should
have just unless it's like full on Melinda and Gates
Foundation kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Yeah right, yeah, I mean that's kind of where I'm
at with it. But also like I get it, like
or target it right, like we're going to really like
we're going to really target literacy and help these help
the kids overcome the obstacles of what's keeping.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
Them from being literate. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Next time, Jessica Biel and Elizabeth Banks our sisters, and
evidently we're going to learn about their family secrets when
one of them has her husband murdered and the better
sister on prime. So I'm looking forward to that one.
It'll be out soon after. It's not out yet as

(01:07:28):
we record, but it will be out by the time
this releases.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Yes, yeah, I can't wait because there's another show a
similar ish and I thought it was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
I don't know, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. Well, thanks so
much for listening. We know you make a choice when
you listen to us. We don't just come on the radio.
You down let us put us in your ear. We
really appreciate it. Rate and review wherever you get your
shows and tell a friend is so much more fun
when you can listen with a friend and watch the
show with a friend, and you know it's that human connection.

(01:07:56):
Don't become addicted to love, don't, but do make the
human connections because that's good for you. You need that. Yeah,
until next time, be safe, be kind and wash your hands.

Speaker 3 (01:08:07):
Trying so hard not to sing, I mean, he said,
what is love?