June 19, 2025 • 68 mins
Situations are often more complicated than they first appear. This is SO true in how the story is laid out in The Better Sister. The situations get more context as the story plays out, and EVERYTHING is more complicated that it seems and we dig into it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back to Killer Fund, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christy and
I'm Jackie, and today today we are talking about The
Better Sister Season one, Episode one. She's My Sister. Boy.
The revelations and the show come in drips, and you
see it from the first episode, like you think you've
(00:31):
seen everything that is important to a scene, and then
they give you more context, more information, and drips and drabs.
I can't wait to finish this series. I mean, they
do it throughout the whole thing. I'm like, halfway through
the last episode.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I stopped it one. So now, okay, if we never
finished it together.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
No, we never do. Either you've watched the whole thing
and I only watch one.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yes, or and that's where we're so like, I've only
watched one and so I haven't watched the rest.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I cannot wait, though I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's so good. It's so good, and the cast is excellent.
It's a real cast. Jessica Biel is Chloe, the high
profile media executive. She's been in lots of stuff, Seventh Heaven,
Total Recall The Center Candy, which we yes that it
(01:28):
was so good, but it didn't have permission from the family,
and that was one of those shows that we like
kind of wish. Yeah, we hadn't covered because they didn't,
but they also didn't have The children names were changed
and they're very much out of the public eye. So yeah,
(01:50):
it's a gray area but still but still it was
a very good show though. Yes. Elizabeth Banks is Nikky,
Chloe's sister and son Ethan's biological mother. We'll get into it.
Of course, she directed Cocaine Bear. She's been in The
Hunger Games, Pitch Perfect, Modern Family, lots of funny stuff,
(02:13):
lots of comedic roles. She's much more dramatic in this
role and is really really good. Corey Stole plays Adam,
a lawyer married to Chloe, previously married to Chloe's sister Nicki,
and is our victim. Yes, yeah, we've seen him in
Law and Order, House of Cards, That's what I recognize immediately. Yeah.
(02:39):
Ant man Maxwell Ace Donovan is Ethan, Nicky's biological son
and raised with Chloe as his mother. He's been in
that nineties show and some other stuff. Gabrielle Slawyer plays
Jake Rodriguez, a friend of the family and Adams coworker.
(03:01):
We saw him previously in Inventing Anna. Oh yeah, that's
why he looks familiar. He's also been a Narcos and
other stuff. Kim Dickens is Detective Nancy Guidri, one of
the investigating officers. She's been in Gone Girl, also House
of Cards, Lost, Fear the Walking Dead, and then she
(03:25):
worked in Fear the Walking Dead with Bobby Nadiri, who
plays Detective Matt Bowen, the other officer. So good cast.
It's a really good cast, all right. Recap recap it.
High profile and powerful woman. Chloe seems to have it all.
An amazing and impactful job as editor in chief of
(03:46):
a magazine, a best selling author, equal rights advocate, a
supportive husband who's a successful lawyer in his own right,
a loving teenage son, and not only an apartment in
New York City, but a second home in the Hampton's
The Dream. The Dream, until Chloe comes home to their
(04:09):
second home after an event to a dark house, only
to stumble upon her husband Adam, in a pool of
his own blood. There are things that indicate that this
might have been a burglary gone wrong, but detectives notice
that some inconsistencies that point to something or someone else,
(04:32):
namely teenage son Ethan. Oh and Ethan isn't Chloe's biological child,
but they are related by blood. Ethan's mom is Adam's ex,
which makes sense. But Adam's X is Chloe's a strange
sister nickey scandalss Yeah, so scandalous that like nobody knows this,
(04:57):
I know, like nobody knows it in their life, right,
Like yes, they've literally like built their life around people
that did not know that this was the thing, and
they just never told somenybody, Yeah, oh that's your sister.
Has anybody talked to Ethan's mom? I mean, it's it's
(05:17):
very interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh okay, So it reminded me at least when I
read about the synopsis, right, and then throughout the first
episode a little bit too. But there was a show
on Netflix called Echoes, Oh okay, and it was about
identical twins, right, and I'm gonna spoil it right now.
I'm gonna spoil it, so if you haven't watched Echoes,
(05:39):
it's still enjoyable to watch even after I spoil this.
But basically they secretly switch places every every few years.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh, I think I So they get to live each
other's lives.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Wow, and they're so good at doing each other, like
the little idiosyncrencies that they have that literally nobody in
their lives has figured this out. They're not their husbands,
their children, Wow, right, Like they switch lives and so
like the kids don't know that their.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Mom is switching. Is both sisters? Really?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Wow? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
It's wild and it's really interesting. But you kind you're like, Okay,
but if I.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Was twins and I'm looking at both of their lives,
I'm like, it wasn't a bad idea, That's.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Right, Because do you need a break from this part?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Once you see the cast and who's in it and
who they're married to kind of like cheers, I'm so
gonna have to check that out now. But I mean,
I know in this one they're not identical twins, but
they do look similar.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
M yeah, we'll get there, but first I have some thoughts. Oh, yes,
Chloe is being followed after an event, and this is
what I mean about like getting info in trips and
more context as things go along. Because initially I was like,
don't go home. I thought you were smart. She was driving,
(07:06):
she looks in the rearview mirror, realized she's being followed,
and the next thing you see, she's pulling into her driveway.
Like I thought you were smart right home. She didn't.
She only waited there for a little bit. She didn't.
But we didn't first. But like in the very beginning,
we didn't even see that she pulled over. Oh do
we didn't, like you see that she's she's leaves the party,
(07:30):
she notices the car behind her, and then the next
thing you see, she's pulling into her own driveway, and
I'm like, it's not until a little bit later, oh,
that we see her. We see we see more context
where they give us little drips and drabs where she
pulls over to the side of the road and the
car drives by. Wow. Yeah, okay, totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
It totally fused in my mind that we I thought
we saw her start to pull over.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Oh interesting, h okay, yeah, memory, But it was like.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
At first, like, yeah, don't. I was like it don't.
Well then and once again I'm wondering why the rich
people don't have video doorbells and working security cameras. I mean,
we wondered this last time with you. I'm like, they're cheap.
They're cheap. I mean really they're they're not expensive, and
(08:25):
they're cheap for the cost, right, right, Like she could
have seen who went into the house? Right, why don't?
Why don't? Is it?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Like I don't know what it is. Maybe it's maybe
it's just not bougie enough.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I mean maybe not. But and maybe they just they
value their privacy so much. That just missed me with that,
like that, all this entire show could have been avoided
if they'd had a ring doorbell. All right, So our
next sponsor is so a coworker of both Chloe and
(09:02):
Adam lament that Adam is clean because now he's often
late to these kind of events. I'm like, what did
he take? And did it make him punctual? They're like, well,
he's clean. They were so like sad about it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I see, I really yeah, I know that that kind
of went over I guess passed my head a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I was like, yeah, what is he cleaned from that
made him punctual? I don't know. Are people more punctual
when they're on cocaine? I don't I don't know. I
don't know either. I mean, I know, like Wall Street
people did a lot of cocaine in the eighties, so
maybe they would have been maybe he would have been
(09:50):
more punctual. I don't know. That's really funny. M I
have no idea. Okay, well, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Have to google that.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Adam may have been late to the event, but I
did appreciate that he greeted the most important people first,
Chloe and Evan. He made a point to say hello
to both of them first. They are tricksy. In the show,
those private moments look really loving and supportive. But I've
(10:23):
watched a little more and so I know that those
aren't really an accurate representation of what's happening. And you
kind of get that feeling a little bit. But you're like, oh,
but then they're so nice to each other in the
hotel room after the event, yeah, or their bedroom. I
think they were at their house. I think they were
at their apartment in New York City. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(10:43):
But like, you know, oh, it seems so nice. I'm like, oh,
they're lying to us.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well yeah, I mean, I mean you kind.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Of have to. I mean, even within the kind confines
of the show. But that's what made me suspicious of
it like right lying to.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Me, almost too nice, So what's wrong here?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's right? The user name of a person on a
message board is killer Chad sixty nine. That it was like,
that sounds like somebody's idea of a bad guy use
her name right, Like they think they're being really deceptive
and clever, and they're not. They're not. They're just you
(11:25):
know what, user names are hard to pick out.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Uh huh, they really are, but yeah, maybe not that one.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
At least the person who sent the creepy modified porno
to Chloe in her New York apartment to use the
cret form of your in their note.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I don't know why that tickles, was like, well.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
At least to use the right kind of your. I mean,
I don't know who sent it, but that's really funny.
Mm hmm. I'm like, I'm like, I have to look
at the.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Screen grab of this now, Like I'm gonna have to
go back and look because what use the right and
I can't picture.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It right now. Yeah, she's sitting in the car and
she yea, and there's a note yeah, and he's the
right form of yours. That's really funny, which I was like, oh,
I appreciate it. Okay, Okay, So whoever said this is
you know, educated, Yeah, at least through high school. Good job, Yes,
(12:31):
through high school.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I mean it really should be through middle school to
get that right.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
But I digress. I know, and I know lots of
people of high school educations who use the wrong Your
Chloe is being interviewed by the detectives and she refuses
an attorney, and again I'll say I thought she was smart.
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
They always tell you that that's not smart though.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
They always tell you that even if you're innocent, right,
always have a lawyer always. Would you like an attorney? Yes,
I would like an attorney in a single time every
especially if you're innocent, I mean almost especially. They're gonna
tell you that it makes you look guilty. And that
(13:15):
is because the police don't want you to have an advocate. Yes,
it does not behoove them for you to have an advocate.
You should have an advocate always. Always.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's almost like I think it's a time now that
the trope has turned that if you say no, it's
almost like you're trying to play it off.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
It's almost to me like more of a caution flag.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Maybe in this arena of the true crime adjacent to watchers.
I think there's a lot of people who still think, well,
I don't need an attorney because I didn't do anything wrong,
you mean attorney. The most she has the second cell phone.
Chlorie has a second cell phone. I'm like, I'm so
(14:00):
suspicious people with second cell phones. I know. It's a
world where we didn't have to have that anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Remember when cell phones first came out and pagers, you
always had to have your work and your personal life
right right now, it's not that often that you have
to have not so often.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
No, but and certainly not a flip phone. Like, if
you're going to have a work phone and a regular
personal phone, you're probably kinding to both of them are
going to be probably smartphones, right, probably right? She need
to be able to text without hitting, you know, eight
four times some good teenie. Yeah, exactly. So police searched
(14:42):
the house, and Ethan rests by the pool, and Chloe
decides to go for a walk, and she takes the
SIM card out and throws the phone away within feet
I mean yes, of her steps down to the beach,
like it's right there. I'm like, come on, no walk
(15:04):
further I mean, just like, yep, a metal detector is
going to find that. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Come on, put it in the water. I mean, just
stroy it somehow at least come on, No, it wasn't
It wasn't a him.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Again, I'm like, I thought you were smart. I thought
you were smart. Chloe's coworker Catherine says good riddance about
Adam's staff, and I'm like, is that heartless or is
it accurate? You never knew? Ah huh. And I'm like,
I feel like there's things we don't know about Adam
(15:41):
that make me wonder could it be accurate? I mean
maybe yeah. I mean, you get to the end of
the episode.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You watched the first episode, so you already figure out
that Ethan is not the biological sun of Chloe. You
already you find out that Chloe, even if you just
encapsulate the first episode, you find that this man had
a son with one sister and then married the other
(16:07):
sister and took the son.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
You know, I'm sure that there are reasons why that
might be that might happen, you know what I mean,
that are legitimate. I get that, especially if you're dealing
with addiction, which you seem to be dealing with and
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So I get it.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And a lot of sisters and siblings they grow up
as friends, right, so if it falls apart, is not
wild that he would then fall in love with the
other sister because they Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
But he's dead now, so.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, definitely colors this the whole thing a little differently.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, and I definitely thought, well, now I see why
Chloe and Adam didn't have biological children together because uh hi,
here's my sibling cousin. Yeah, that's so weird. Yep. Yeah.
So Ethan claims that some guccie sneakers and Beats headphones
(17:02):
are missing. It's like, are they missing or did they
go to Kevin as payment for drugs because Kevin is
his friend who's also a drug dealer, Yeah, selling lots
of weed. Yeah yeah, uh huh yeah, I think so.
I think he's trying to like just sneak it in there.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Also, you know, teenagers are just like they're so smart,
they're almost right, you.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Know what I mean, Like, okay, not bad thinking.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I see what you did there. You try to sneak
it in there?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
You can get your stuff back, uh huh. It was clever.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It was not right, right, but it was kind of clever,
and it was kind of clever. Or they're just under
his bed, let mama go look in.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So Ethan doesn't want to be romanded to his biological
mother's custody, and Chloe assures him that that won't happen, Like,
how rich are you because the paperwork is going to
be a problem. You're not Kate in you love bull rich?
I know.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Nikki takes a lot of luggage with her to ny See,
a lot all that luggage, and then she uses her
sister's roll on to yodorant. I was like you you like,
I mean, at least if it was like a stick
to yodorant, you can get the top yeah, like you
wipe off the top layer and it's like, okay, it's fine. Yeah,
(18:29):
but a roll on toyodorant that's a single user item.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah yeah, even really even like, let's discuss whether this
is even something we should be using. The backwash of
the body situation into the stuff is still there the
next day you use it. But that's why it's a
single user item, at least a single use yeah, yes, yes,
So a little trivia, okay, It was filmed in New
(18:54):
York City a lot of it. It's based on a
novel by Alpherd Burke. Part of the reason that they
did this project together is both Jessica Bill and Elizabeth
Banks have been told they look like one another.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh that's so funny, Okay, that they've often been look
like Jessica Bill, I have to look like is Elizabeth Banks?
I meant I would mix them up to right.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I would.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I would if they weren't so different in their heights.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I guess that's true, but like before I really could,
I'd have to look up, Like if I saw a show,
I'd be like.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Which one?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Who is?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Which one's which? Yeah? Girl, where's that? Jessica Bielle originally
read for the role of Nikki, and I think it
was smart. Castors Chloe and Elizabeth Banks went cold Turkey
sober for three months to prepare for this role. Oh cool. Yeah.
I was like, I really, I'm gonna do it, okay.
(19:56):
I was like, good for you, for her, all right.
I was trying to figure out a resource okay. And
I went back to the don't go home if You're
being followed, Yes, Dorigo and Diaz, which is a law
firm in Tampa, Florida, has some suggestions on their website.
Oh good, okay, okay, there's ways to tell if you're
(20:19):
being followed. Okay, okay. If you're in a city, you
make four right turns, so four right turns will put
you back the same way you were going. If the
car is still behind.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You, you're absolutely being followed. If you're on the interstate,
exit and then get right back on the highway, and
if they also do that.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You're being followed. Okay, makes sense. Whether you're in the
city or on the interstate or wherever you are, change
your pace, slow way down ten fifteen miles under the
speed limit. And if they don't pass you, you're being followed.
What should you do if you're being followed? Should you do? Uh? Huh?
You should stay came, be alert, make up a point
(21:04):
to be observant of your surroundings. Do not let them
know that you realize you're being followed. Don't stare at
them in the rear view mirror. Don't signal it could
escalate the situation. Never ever ever drive home because they
might be trying to learn where you live, right and
(21:27):
see what the situation around your home is like, So
if you can drive in the opposite direction from home,
do not go towards your house. If you can, go
to the nearest law enforcement station. So whether it's police
or fire department or whatever, go to their parking lot
and then you can call nine one one from your phone.
(21:49):
If they're still around and you're feeling normally, that'll be
enough that that'll be enough to you. They know you've
been followed, but now you're too close to somebody who
can do something about it. So if you know you're
being followed, call nine one talk to somebody. If you
(22:10):
think you're being followed, you can still call nine one one,
even if you're not one hundred percent church. Just call
them and tell them I'm concerned, I don't I'm sitting
in this parking lot or i'm you know, if you
can't get to a police station, if you don't know
where one is, a any well lit area with a
lot of people, that's going to be a big deterrent.
(22:30):
You can call police from there. Yeah makes sense. Yeah,
there may be nothing you can do to prevent being followed,
but don't post your location on social media. If you
want to do it as you're leaving or when you
get home that night, then post oh I had a
great night at this place without telling anybody where I
(22:51):
am there now, because that tells people that you're not
home and gives your location. It's better to do it
after the fact. It's scary to be followed, but keep
your cool. You can do this. Yes, you could just
go somewhere really populated. That'll help. And don't be afraid
to call nine one one. Yeah, you pay your taxes.
(23:12):
Call yes, exactly. They can meet you and you can
give them the license plate of whomever was following you,
and then at least they have a record so when
that person does it again, they can be like, oh, yeah,
we've heard about this guy before. He does have road
(23:33):
rage exactly, Yes, yes he does. So here's how it works.
Christie recks her search history. Hey an essay.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
We promise it's nothing more nefarious than a podcast to
find out what's true some of the psychological motivations behind
the character's actions and real life applications that relate to
our topic. I have no idea what Christy decided to
look up could be the same thing that captured my
curiosity or something I never thought of.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Is it true? No, no, it's fictional. As I said before,
Ala fair Burke did draw upon some of her experiences
as a former prosecutor in Portland, Oregon for a few years,
so she did kind of like base how things happened
(24:26):
on her experience. So it's fictional but also a little
based in reality. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
The Real Thing magazine, Okay, I had to look it
up because I was like immediately, I was like, wait,
wait what, No, nope.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Real Simple that I was thinking of. That's right, Real Simple. Yes,
it's fiction, as is the law firm that Adam worked for.
Both fictional though. I was like, okay, so the Real
Thing and Real Simple, And I love Real Simple, don't
get me wrong. Yeah, I really do. Is like, if
I'm gonna go sit in the waiting room in a
hospital or something, I'm gonna buy myself a copy of
(25:03):
Real Simple.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Real Simple. However, it's the real thing, Real Simple. It's
not real life for most people. But no, no, it's
like saying, goop is something something that everybody shops on
all the time.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, no, No, I mean that's the thing about magazines though,
is that.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, there was some you.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Know, practical things you might get from advertisements or whatever.
But it's just kind of like it's it's fun, yes,
because it's like the ooh, the what if and you
might you might not do that, but you might get
an idea. Yes, right, that's the thing I love those. Okay,
magazines used to be a lot bigger. Can we just
talk about this for one second. Sure, magazines used to
(25:47):
actually be hefty.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Well, especially real Simple used to be like enormous.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
They're flimsy now flimsy Okay, so Vogue, Cosmo. These used
to be like, you'd I won, and it will last
you the whole time till the next yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
The whole month until the next one came out.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Because I mean it was hefty.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean yeah, there were a lot of advertisements in it,
but they were beautiful and you loved looking at them
and it was really fun and all that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Okay, I don't know how I got signed up for
some kind of subscription thing that I got Cosmo all
last year.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I really don't know why.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Okay, it's a pamphlet and the advertisements are terrible for
the most part.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Only once was there actually a perfume sample.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
How in the world that used to be a staple
that was the think you wanted to have all that? Yeah, well,
and I think Cosmos very they're very good online, see,
and that's the thing they've all been to, right, I mean,
and that's that's where the advertising dollars are.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But it's coming back, yeah, because the whole there's a
whole renaissance of print.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So it's coming back.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And I cannot wait for magazines, real magazines to come
back that are.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Hefty, yeah, yes, like and a subscription like where you get.
I don't like these little one offs.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It's like if you go into like Barnes and Noble
and you look at the magazines, there's a ton of magazines,
but they're not they're one off prints about a one thing, right.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yes, that might all about one musical artist or all
about like whatever, one event.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Or one event, one topic, one thing. It's not a series,
like it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Because it's one publishing company that just keeps uh huh.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Spitting them out, spitting them out. Yep, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Okay, that's my diatribe about magazines.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Is fifteen million views in a twenty four hour period viral. Yeah, yes, yeah,
I agree, Blue host says basically, yes, by any metric,
fifteen million views in twenty four hours would absolutely be viral.
(28:04):
But it really depends on the platform whether it's considered
viral or not. So for TikTok, a million views in
a week is viral. YouTube? Five million views per post? Okay,
Instagram a million views Facebook would be just one hundred
(28:25):
thousand views Twitter. Ten thousand reposts will get you a
viral situation. What are the things that are going to
cause a post to go viral? Relatability and authenticity, novelty
and creativity or this is probably what was happening with
(28:46):
this congressional testimony that Chloe was giving timing and trend relevance.
So it happened to be a really relevant thing. So
a lot of people saw it. Yeah, but really by any.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Metric, I mean, that's yeah, a heck of a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, that's a that's a lot of eyeballs. Yeah. Yeah.
Is the hashtag women are essential exclusive to the show?
I don't think so. Okay, No, it's not huge. But
the executive director of the California Commission on the Status
of Women and Girls, her name is Tracy Totton, and
(29:26):
she's been using the hashtag women are Essential as part
of her position since at least twenty twenty three. Okay,
so she's She's posted with the hashtag women are essential
on LinkedIn a number of times over in the past
couple of years.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
I feel like I've seen, oh really, I'm like, I
feel like I've seen that hashtag women are essential one
thousand plus posts right now, and then there's a few variations.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So I don't know, maybe it's a round around. It's
not huge, it's not quite as gigantic as this portrayed
in the show, right, but also very cool, very cool.
So nine one one told Chloe to leave the house.
Might they have done this with an injured person in
the house, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
They might have, especially if it's foul play exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And I think that that is the situation that if
you call nine one one, if there's an immediate threat
to your safety, that could be fire, hazardous materials, gas leak,
weather like hurricanes and flooding, but also crimes in progress
or life threatening situations. They didn't know if the person
(30:43):
who'd killed Adam was still in the house, so I
don't know that. I guess outside, you're gonna have a
better ability to get away if somebody comes after you, right, yeah,
rather than being in the house, right, I would think, so, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, I mean you don't want a horror movie it
and run upstairs.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Right, yeah, exactly. We don't need to be shouting at her.
She's done enough unintelligent things. Yeah, she doesn't need to
do that as well. Another reason they may ask you
to leave the house is situations requiring an investigative response,
like utility disruptions, are building damage or a criminal investigation,
(31:24):
So get out before you mess up our crime scene. Yeah, basically.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
To be sensitive about it.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So Detective GUIDRII took her own photos and that seems
a little weird to Detective Bowen. Is it a weird
thing to do?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I don't think it's that weird, but it is a
bit ironic, like, okay, but we hired the people, uh huh.
But also she's not wrong, like she's gonna see something
her own way, and that's a memory.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Thing for her, right. But also.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
If she's not taking good photos, then her photos aren't
as representative.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Of the truth.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And people are trained for this. So it's like, I'm
sure it happens. I don't think it's probably the best
thing in the world, but I understand why she wants to.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Right, I totally understand why she wants to also maybe
wait for the photographer to get there and ask them
to take pictures a certain way. Yes, so that you
have this like chain of command like and chain of evidence,
so it's clear that you didn't disrupt it. It's okay.
(32:36):
They might learn how to take better pictures. Detective if
you tell the photographer, hey, look at these things. Yeah,
teach them a little bit of what detectives want to
see and to see.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
But also they are already trained, I think.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
But I kind of got from the other detective who
is like, they do this is their job, right, they.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Know what to take a picture of.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
See things differently, And the look on his face said, no,
you don't. I don't see things differently than the person
who's literally trained to do this.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It seemed like a little silly.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
But I mean yes. There's a methodical approach to crime
scene investigation that is taught as a textbook called an
Introduction to Crime Scene Investigation by Eric Do Tell, No
Way d U T E L L TEL. Come on,
that's hysterical, Eric do tell investigation, which I thought washing
(33:36):
and as I'm like, I don't even care if that's
not really his name. It's so good.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I mean, that feels like a character from Clue.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean to tell.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
But uh.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
In Hit chapter six of his book, he basically talks
about how there's systematic approaches that are taught so that
they can collect as much evidence as possible, and that
includes things like reports and note taking, photography, videography, crime
scene sketching, and mapping. Now, some of those things are overlap,
(34:12):
they're redundant intentionally, Yes, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
She is biasing herself, huh, because what she sees is
she's coming at it from that and puzzle making, but
she doesn't have at all documented to look at it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Right, So if she takes a picture.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Of something, she's automatically gonna think whatever she took a
picture of is more important.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right, And that's a bias, right for sure. Because crime
scene photography, the photographers are taught to take it in
a way that tells the story. Yeah, right, it really
does tell a story. Now you want to capture as
much of that story as possible, but also you want
to try and remove as much bias as possible, right, Right.
(34:56):
It used to be that the photograph themselves were evidence,
and now it's like what's depicted in the photograph as evidence.
And they used to require the photographer to be able
to talk about how the picture was taken and how
it was developed and what the process was that they
could be sure that it had been done properly. And
(35:19):
now it's like, no, we don't care about that anymore
because nobody's processing these photos the same way they used
to their digital photos, right, and just for because I
thought it was interesting because our podcast and sometimes I
just talk about things that I think are interesting. They
(35:39):
take photos at different stages, so they take like an
overall photo of a scene, and then they move in
closer and take photos and then they do the detail
like evidence sort of photos, which I was like, oh,
that makes sense again. They're telling the story. They're going
to take wide ranging pictures so that they can understand
(36:03):
what's going on, and then they're going to move in deeper.
Elimination samples, yes, those are for sure, they are, And
the National Institute of Justice does specifically say it's a
sample taken from a person who's known to have lawful
(36:27):
access to the crime scene, and it could be blood
or DNA swabs, fingerprints, they talked about all of those.
They took pictures of Ethan and chloeing, and they might
also take tire tread impressions from police vehicles, which I
hadn't thought of, or footwear impressions from emergency personnel, just
(36:51):
like we know these people showed up after the fact.
A reference sample is a little different. So reference sample
is something that is known to be at the scene,
but we don't know where it came from. It could
have come from somebody who was lawfully there, but it
(37:15):
also might belong to the perpetrator. Right. All of the
sources that we use to inform our discussion here on
Killer Fund Podcast can be found on our social media.
Join us on Facebook at Killer Fun Podcast, exploring the
intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find us on
Twitter at killer funpod, or you can send us an
(37:38):
email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com and I'd be
happy to share a link to whatever information you're looking for.
We love to hear from you. You might learn a
little something too. Psychology break Okay, okay, So it's clear
that the end of the first episode that the police
like Ethan for this a little bit. It's pretty clear
(38:00):
that they think the sun did it, and they're kind
of pushing towards them a little bit. Yes, Ethan doesn't
really seem in the first episode to fit the profile
of children who murder. Yeah, we don't have a lot
of evidence about this, but typically it's kids who've endured abuse, neglect, assault, trauma,
(38:28):
other challenging upbringing that's a risk factor. It's there are
plenty of kids who've had no issues quote unquote a
normal upbringing that go on to do heinous things and
we don't know why. But at least in the first episode,
(38:49):
there aren't things that you see about Ethan that make
you think, oh my gosh, he's a murderer. Absolutely, he's
a murderer.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah no, And we don't have a good way to
predict that at all because the mass majority of people
who have, you know, a history of.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Trauma or abuse don't do that.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Right, So, exactly exactly adolescent murders. Now, this is a
journal article. It's a little old from two thousand and two, okay,
but there's not a lot of like adolescent murder research.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's only all you can
do is archival data, right, Well, and because it doesn't
happen that often, right, there's not a whole lot of data, right, Well,
and especially when it's not gang related, right, you know,
it's not organized crime. It's just like these one off
there's it's not a lot of it's hard to find.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
However, this was done in the UK. They looked at
groups of people who were in prison for having committed burglary.
Some of them had committed murder as well, some of
them had not, and they kind of compared them and
they did find that they tended to have a lower
(40:06):
socioeconomic status if they committed murder, that they had harsh parenting,
and they were more likely to have harsh parenting from
their mother than their father, which I thought was interesting.
It is interesting. Yeah, authoritarian style is not.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Is not.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Correlated with good outcomes.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Overall the of the different styles. Yeah, people think they're
doing tough love and sometimes that's what's needed. A lot
of the time, it's detrimental. Yes, it makes children feel unsafe. Yeah,
tough love is.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I have thoughts. I have many thoughts about tough love.
It's not if you can't define.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
It out with other words, it's probably not worth doing.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Oh, that's fair. That's really fair. There was a study
from a North Sumata University in Indonesia, so a little
bit different culture, but they did find that it was
often a pattern of neglect or indifference or insensitivity for
(41:24):
children who murdered. And then this guy went into like
all kinds of Sigmund Freud oh stuff, which was kind
of interesting that plus it's hard. Yeah, it is concluded
that the causes of criminal active murder committed by children
and the perspective of criminal psychology are due to internal
(41:47):
and external factors.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Oh great, Oh yeah, right, I love those blanket statements.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Internal factors where they lack the self control so that
the id ego and super ego do not run well.
I was like, okay, and external factors being you know,
that they learned from the people around them, or they've
suffered neglect and don't have a good framework.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
I was like, wow, he said, and.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Seriously he did not say that ironically, I know.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Not at all. Yeah, okay, But at the end of
the first episode, we don't know, we don't know, we
do not know what happened. We don't know if Ethan
killed Adam. The detectives seem to think that he did,
but it is really hard on parents who have children
(42:45):
who end up murdering Well yeah, I mean yeah. So
it back in twenty eleven and PR had a show
called Talk of the Nation. They were talking to parents
who children had done some horrible things. At that time,
(43:05):
it was relevant because there was a man named Jared
Loftner who had done a shooting in Tucson, Arizona, out
of shopping mall. And so there was a woman, Janette
Halton Higgs, who really empathized because her son had previously
(43:27):
shot a police officer who then died, and she had
a lot of guilt and shame and despair about it.
Really felt for the family. Jeanette was talking kind of
openly about her experience, how it affected her, and that
(43:47):
she spoken with a psychiatrist, e Fuller Tory, and he
said that he estimated he's the founder of the Treatment
Advocacy Center, and he estimated that there were at any
given time about forty thousand potentially dangerously mental ill mentally
(44:11):
ill people in the United States just like out roaming
the streets at any time. Now. Most of them are
not going to do anything, but they have the potential there, right,
And her son who ended up attacking a police officer.
She's like, he does not represent most the mentally ill people.
(44:31):
She's like, however, he was very severely mentally ill, and
most of the time they end up being victims rather
than the perpetrators. So she was. But also she had
a lot of feelings about it. She was like, I
did everything I could to get him help, but people
(44:54):
looked at me like I had done a bad job
raising him right, And that's part of the thing. And
and a man named Dave Cullen wrote a book called Columbine,
and he talked about how intense intensely the parents were
(45:14):
seen almost as perpetrators themselves for what their children did.
And in fact that shortly after Columbine and then years later,
they took a poll and eighty three percent of people
blamed the parents as being just as responsible, if not
more so, than the children themselves. And it can be
(45:37):
really hard because you can see there's something obviously wrong
with the teenager and they're having problems, or are they
just having what seems to be normal teenage angst. It
can be really difficult to tell the difference between those two.
Then they had a caller callin and she was talking
about how her son was sixteen at the time, and
(46:01):
he basically was too severely mentally ill for the public
services that were available, so they started to want to
put him through the legal system, which would basically just
get him released and have no sort of support, Which
is like, they didn't have a state mental facility for
(46:21):
me to send him to. So so what am I
supposed to be?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I can't. I can't just I'm afraid of what he'll
do if I just put him out on the street.
So it's easy to say those parents are responsible, and
sometimes it's true. Sometimes parents provide access to weapons that
they should not, even though there was no gun in
this situation, right, it was a knife. You can't not
(46:49):
have some sort of knife in your house. You need
to cut things, I mean for cooking and whatnot. Yeah,
you can't do a way with every weapon, no, right, No.
But also I just thought it was interesting to kind
of look at where Chloe and Nikki were at with
(47:13):
you know, how much blame do they take and how
much guilt do they need to feel about it? They
you know, raise this kid, but he doesn't seem like
a bad kid. Did they do something wrong? Is he
hiding stuff? I thought that part of it was kind
of interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, I mean it's hard because if you're a good parrot,
of course you're to take full responsibility for it, right
and then and then you're gonna have to work at
laying that responsibility down for the most part, except where
maybe you do have some responsibility, you know, you know,
predicting school shooters.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
We can't do that at all. No, we know some
risk factors.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
We can only understand the risk factors based on what
the outcome was. We only know their risk factor because
it's it's something that was there and a person who
actually chose to do the thing, And so all we
know is how to profile the person backwards in time, right,
because so many people have all of those same quote
(48:14):
risk factors and don't go on to do that.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
We cannot predict this at all.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
There's no profile, right, So, like you know, at least
for school shooters and things like that when we're talking
about and that's what makes teenagers so hard, because they
are experiencing so much, you know, and if a parent
has an inkling that there's something, there's only so much
you can do. And I think that's that's the point,
is you can only do so much, and they think
(48:41):
that's the parent that is already feeling responsible for the
potential of something going wrong, right, And that's that's really
hard because you you you're not it's not your fault.
You are responsible for what choices you make to try
to help to try to be there.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
But also you know, well, it's sad.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
You see a lot of people who have these kids
who end up doing some things that are not okay,
And maybe a parenting expert or psychologist or somebody could come.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
In and tell the parent, these are all the choices you.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Made, yeah, made them likely, right.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
But not everybody's a parenting expert.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Right, Not everybody's a parenting expert. And there are kids
who do terrible things whose parents didn't do any of
the right things that quote unquote should have made this
kid homicidal, right. You just it's so hard to know.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
I mean, you look at some of the times and
you're like, okay, but you were not paying attention to
your kid, right, Like you were not right, Like you
were not being careful, you know, like they just held
the parents responsible in one of the shooting school shooting situations,
right because they bought them the gun, right, knowing that
he had some risk factors that would have played a role.
(49:58):
But what they got, what they got them on was
the fact that they illegally allowed the child to have
a that And that's the point, Like, are you you
know what I mean? So, yes, that just happened in
our town. Yes, gosh, I was sad, Mama be buy
and stuff. It was terrible gosh, So I mean terrible.
(50:19):
I just think that as a parent, take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Well, and she totally should take responsibility, and all parents
are going to have some sort of responsibility for it.
But if you did the things I tried to get
my child's psychiatric help, and I was unable to do
so because of external factors. I removed weapons from my
house in order to make sure that my kid didn't
(50:43):
have access to them, but he got access to them anyway, right,
you know, Okay, you tried, you did, that's different.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
But like denying kids' mental health, right right, Like this
is where I think the lines are for us, is
that there's a lot of parenting styles and parenting like
subcultures that unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
You learn the hard way.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, and it may not be that they grow up
and are violent, but they but that outcomes still aren't good.
But if you ignore things, think that everything is rosy
and really just ignore obvious signs.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
At that point, it's hard, how much do you But again, like.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
It's only once they've done something terrible, right, that that
you know that you're responsible, or that you're those actions
that you chose to make, denying taking your kid to
a therapist or whatever.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
It's so hard, like you think we do. We're judging.
We're judging of each other as parents.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
We really are, you know, right well, And also also
here's the thing of it. You look at that and
you want to think it could never be my case.
It could always be your kid. It could always be
your kid and.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Always yeah, yes, it could always be your kid.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Uh huh. But people want the security of it couldn't
happen in my family. And you know what, every kid
who's ever died by an accidental shooting in their home thought,
it won't happen in my house. Every parent thought, right.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
And that's just the extreme outcomes, right, not to even
mention just regular.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Regular run of the mill.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
You know, we're judging of each other all the time.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, sometows somebody acting acting wrong, and my first thought
is upbringing.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Really. I mean, it's just immediately like.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Some people's children, you know, I'm like that mama did
not teach them right.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Maybe she tried.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Uh huh, that's right. Maybe it wasn't that mom didn't
teach herm right. Maybe they just are incapable of learning.
Yeah yeah, real life. So Chloe has some impressive real
world counterparts, at least business wise. So she was a magazine,
(53:00):
an editor in chief and a best selling author. Hanya
Yanagihara wrote a best selling novel called A Little Life,
and most recently To Paradise, which was number one in
twenty twenty two on the New York Times bestseller List,
and she is also the editor in chief of Team magazine,
(53:22):
the New York Times style magazine. Nice Yeah, I write
that magazine. Kate White was the editor in chief of
Cosmopolitan from nineteen ninety eight to twenty twelve. She has
written twenty six books in total, eighteen fiction, eight nonfiction,
(53:45):
ten of them on the Bestsellersang good for her, and
she quit being editor in chief of Vogue to write
fiction because she was good enough at it. Transparency in
wage is actually good for business? Is actually so when
you disclose the pay range for a position. When you
(54:09):
advertise it, it helps close the gender wage gaps.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
That it gives transparency to job and applicants and they
understand how they can negotiate for pay and whether they
should even try to go after that job. That job
doesn't pay enough. I'm not going to spend my time.
And they actually then don't waste the company's time applying
(54:33):
for a job that is not going to pay them
at the rate which they require.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
It's such a problem getting companies to understand that advertising
your your the pay for the job is so important.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Uh huh, you will.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
And here's the thing that companies don't want to hear.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Advertising the wage will save the company money.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Uh huh, yes, because you don't spend your time interviewing
people who are not going to accept your pay range.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yep. And what's really funny is that if they have
low balled the wage necessary to hire somebody, a lot
of times what happens is they'll try to lowball it,
which is why they're not advertising it, because they know
that what people want to be.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Paid for it is much higher. So they try to
do that.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
They'll hire somebody, they'll hire somebody willing to take that
wage and it won't work out. Uh huh, they'll have
to go back and they'll have to find higher quality
candidates and raise it.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
So now you've spent onboarding dollars and all of that,
all because you didn't advertise it.
Speaker 3 (55:37):
You got somebody to go through the process.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
You low balled it, they took it anyway, All of
these things that people just figure out what the job
is actually worth, honestly and then advertise it. Yeah, and
guess what your productivity will be fantastic?
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, getting them get somebody who can do the
job from the go, right, or advertise it as an
entry level position. Right. It's fine to have entry level people,
it is, but make sure it's entry level.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
Don't lie to yourselves.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah right, and then also advertise it because if you're
not getting the quality candidate you want, then you also know, right, like, oh,
well this is obviously with little bald what this is
valued at. Yeah, as far as the professional quality is.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Concerned, exactly. So, oh, here's a frustrating thing. So back
in nineteen sixty three, they Equal Pay Act was passed
to saying you can't pay one sex less than the
other for the same or similar work, because that used
(56:52):
to be a thing I did all the time. So
that is way back in nineteen sixty three. So basically
what they did it was jobs that they didn't want
to pay well for. They just hired women. Colorado in
twenty nineteen had to pass the Equal Pay for Equal
(57:12):
Work Act, so many years later, and that part of
that was requiring that job postings disclose benefits, pay ranges,
promotional opportunities. California's Fair Pay Act was passed in twenty
fifteen and had to be updated in twenty twenty three.
(57:35):
That again salary ranges in advertisements and to current employees
if you had fifteen or more employees, like seven states
have done this in twenty twenty five. It's like we're
and it's not. I wish it was working better. I mean,
we've been at this for a long time. No wonder
(57:58):
Chloe is still having to advocate for the yes. Right.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
It's so hard because oh yeah, I'm gonna say the
problem is that some of the wage gap is implicit bias.
It's stuff that you don't see as the obvious problem,
right where it's not literally like oh, you both hold
the same job, and you are literally getting different salaries
and we just need to make them equal. What happens
(58:25):
is they end up at different salaries.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
They might have been hired on for the same salary
because it was the same job.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
Over time, the man will make more because he.
Speaker 2 (58:35):
Will have garnered more raises, more bonuses, and more promotional
opportunity than the woman. Right. And the reason for that
is childcare situations, right, mostly childcare situations, right.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
The willingness to forego family time.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
You know, all of these kinds of things that over time,
negotiation practices. Men are more empowered in our society to negotiate,
and so they will ask for the raise and negotiate it,
and the woman will wait for it to come to her. Yeah,
and it's typically speaking typically and so trying to at
the same level tell women you need to ask for
(59:15):
the rays.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
If you want the raise, you need to negotiate it.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Also, companies need to be just more transparent about what
is appropriate.
Speaker 3 (59:23):
At what point do you get raises?
Speaker 2 (59:24):
To be just a little bit more pragmatic about it
so that people understand what they're looking for. But it's
just it's just but that's all under the radar, right,
so these are don't fix that, right.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
They don't. They can help fix the initial problem, right,
but they don't handle it long term. No, And we
need to be able to value I mean, we need children, right,
we need all all here all the time. We need children.
We need young people in order to support our economy.
(01:00:00):
A family is really important. Yeah, okay, well then we
should value it well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
But they want to value it by having women not
work outs at the home, right, and the man being
the only one to work.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
And you know that's a fine choice to make, right,
there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
It could be the opposite, but it also needs to
be able to we can support all the options, right,
we really can't.
Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
The wage gap has closed a little bit. It's now
women making eighty four cents for every dollar that a
man makes.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Still not equal, no, no, And people are like, oh,
that's close enough.
Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Great, you just go ahead and do that math over
a course of a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Tell yeah, it's like four hundred thousand dollars that women
are missing out on.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
And estimated over time, women will have a one million
dollars less than men because of the promotional and the raises.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
As far as yes, promotional raises Also, women healthcare attends
to cost a little more in the initially, right, and
so you know, you have to look at those benefits.
Women end up spending more on healthcare than men do, right,
because having babies is ludicrously expensive and we don't value it.
(01:01:19):
We do not. Chloe was worried that Adam had been
attacked because she had been getting death threats. Unfortunately, this
happened in twenty twenty. There was a judge in New Jersey,
Judge Esther Salas, who had been getting death threats, and
(01:01:39):
a seventy two year old lawyer whose name I'm not
going to say, got mad about a judgment that she
made and he went to her home, shot her husband
and her son. And her son did not survive. It
was they were cleaning up after his twentieth birthday party.
Oh my god, and the guy ran the doorbell and
(01:02:01):
shot the kid. Awful, Yes, and the father was shot.
Her husband was shot and started screaming, called nine one
one and crawled outside to try and get the license
plate number to be able to tell police. Is so awful.
And yeah, this guy had a manifesto and proclaimed himself
(01:02:25):
an anti feminist. Unfortunately, federal judges are facing more and
more threats, and it's hard to know how much they
should be taken. Seriously, Chloe is wondering these things herself. Oh,
it was just just some Yahoo on the internet, blustering
(01:02:45):
and making themselves feel better. Or do I really need
to be concerned with us on a lighter note, yes, please.
So the detectives go and talk to low level drug
dealer Kevin, Oh yeah, and they tell him they don't
care about his Regano cut weed selling. Police have used
(01:03:10):
to Regano to stand in for weed in sting operations
in DC. In nineteen eighty one, there was a drug problem,
people selling weed, and so police decided that they were
gonna have undercover officers post as dealers in an area
(01:03:35):
of town that was very reputable for weed selling. Okay, right,
So basically they're going to infiltrate the place that's right,
most people are going to buy weed. And they called
it operation a Regano scam. And they had little bags
for regan now and sold them to people for five dollars,
(01:03:58):
just as if they might buind marijuana. That's funny, And
it wasn't to arrest people. It was to give the
area a bad rap o, like you would go there
and not get what you write what you want, and
people would come back mad and want their money back,
(01:04:19):
but there wasn't really anything they could do about it.
They're like, we're police officers. Too bad, we sold you.
We're keeping your money. The police officer to John isl
went to a supermarket and bought all the herbs that
looked good, fifty dollars worth of reg and o, tea leaves, parsley,
celery flakes. Mixed it in a big box, but it
(01:04:40):
didn't look good, so we added mud. Then we decided
the oregano was too strong, so we added vanilla extract
and then it smelled like vanilla, so we threw bird
seed in it. But they made up like three hundred
packets and it actually didn't really do very much. H
This one was really funny. In twenty ten, they tried
(01:05:03):
something similar. Okay, they had figured out that there was
a delivery service called Mindy's Muffins. They'd gotten a drug
dealer apprehended him and they went to his house and
he had a lot of weed. And there was a
phone that was ringing like every ninety seconds or so,
(01:05:26):
and it was because people call and ask for muffins
and then he'd be like a pizza delivery guy and
deliver them weed. Wow. Yeah, So the police officers they
had gone up quite a lot. It was about fifty
dollars for two and a half grams of weed. Wow
to have it delivered, I mean right, like half as
(01:05:49):
much weed for ten times the cost. But it was delivered, right.
Oh yeah, that's true though. So you know you pay
just like uber eats or whatever, you pay your weed
huh yeah, yeah, if you pay out premium to have
it brought to your house. So the agents decided they
were going to go ahead and start answering these Instead
(01:06:11):
of delivering marijuana, they were going to deliver packets of
a regano and dried coriander and arrest people. They made
about twenty arrests. The only problem is regano and coriander
not illegal. Ye, Like, just because they thought they were
buying weed, they didn't actually buy weed. So all of
(01:06:32):
the cases got through. Oh my gosh, you gotta sell
them actual weed if you're going to arrest.
Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Them, right, like, bless their hearts.
Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
It's not entrapment if they called and asked for it, right, Yes,
you can use the actual weed and then arrest them
and actually get a conviction. Great. I'm not even going
to talk about whether we should be legal or not.
But at that time it was not legal legal. That
(01:07:04):
is really funny. They they tried vanilla. Have they smelled
weed before? Good lord?
Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Yeah, okay that can't for some reason, let that one go.
Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah, like uticularly it was nineteen eighty one. They didn't
know better. I mean, but we just smelled the same
for a long time. This is true, This is true.
Next time cocaine air. How much did the French pilots
know in twenty thirteen, I do, probably more than they're lighting.
Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
On conor cocaine.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Bear, No, we have cocaine there. It's so great. It's great. Yeah,
I love it. Thank you so much for listening. We
know you make a choice when you listen to us.
We don't just come on the radio. You downlast and
put us in your ears. We really appreciate it. Please
rate and review wherever you get shows, because that helps
us get found and tell a friend. It is way
(01:07:59):
more fun when you can listen to a friend. Until
next time, be safe, be kind, and wash your hands.
Bob Bob
Welcome back to Killer Fund, where we explore the intersection
of crime and entertainment every other week. I'm Christy and
I'm Jackie, and today today we are talking about The
Better Sister Season one, Episode one. She's My Sister. Boy.
The revelations and the show come in drips, and you
see it from the first episode, like you think you've
(00:31):
seen everything that is important to a scene, and then
they give you more context, more information, and drips and drabs.
I can't wait to finish this series. I mean, they
do it throughout the whole thing. I'm like, halfway through
the last episode.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I stopped it one. So now, okay, if we never
finished it together.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
No, we never do. Either you've watched the whole thing
and I only watch one.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Yes, or and that's where we're so like, I've only
watched one and so I haven't watched the rest.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I cannot wait, though I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
It's so good. It's so good, and the cast is excellent.
It's a real cast. Jessica Biel is Chloe, the high
profile media executive. She's been in lots of stuff, Seventh Heaven,
Total Recall The Center Candy, which we yes that it
(01:28):
was so good, but it didn't have permission from the family,
and that was one of those shows that we like
kind of wish. Yeah, we hadn't covered because they didn't,
but they also didn't have The children names were changed
and they're very much out of the public eye. So yeah,
(01:50):
it's a gray area but still but still it was
a very good show though. Yes. Elizabeth Banks is Nikky,
Chloe's sister and son Ethan's biological mother. We'll get into it.
Of course, she directed Cocaine Bear. She's been in The
Hunger Games, Pitch Perfect, Modern Family, lots of funny stuff,
(02:13):
lots of comedic roles. She's much more dramatic in this
role and is really really good. Corey Stole plays Adam,
a lawyer married to Chloe, previously married to Chloe's sister Nicki,
and is our victim. Yes, yeah, we've seen him in
Law and Order, House of Cards, That's what I recognize immediately. Yeah.
(02:39):
Ant man Maxwell Ace Donovan is Ethan, Nicky's biological son
and raised with Chloe as his mother. He's been in
that nineties show and some other stuff. Gabrielle Slawyer plays
Jake Rodriguez, a friend of the family and Adams coworker.
(03:01):
We saw him previously in Inventing Anna. Oh yeah, that's
why he looks familiar. He's also been a Narcos and
other stuff. Kim Dickens is Detective Nancy Guidri, one of
the investigating officers. She's been in Gone Girl, also House
of Cards, Lost, Fear the Walking Dead, and then she
(03:25):
worked in Fear the Walking Dead with Bobby Nadiri, who
plays Detective Matt Bowen, the other officer. So good cast.
It's a really good cast, all right. Recap recap it.
High profile and powerful woman. Chloe seems to have it all.
An amazing and impactful job as editor in chief of
(03:46):
a magazine, a best selling author, equal rights advocate, a
supportive husband who's a successful lawyer in his own right,
a loving teenage son, and not only an apartment in
New York City, but a second home in the Hampton's
The Dream. The Dream, until Chloe comes home to their
(04:09):
second home after an event to a dark house, only
to stumble upon her husband Adam, in a pool of
his own blood. There are things that indicate that this
might have been a burglary gone wrong, but detectives notice
that some inconsistencies that point to something or someone else,
(04:32):
namely teenage son Ethan. Oh and Ethan isn't Chloe's biological child,
but they are related by blood. Ethan's mom is Adam's ex,
which makes sense. But Adam's X is Chloe's a strange
sister nickey scandalss Yeah, so scandalous that like nobody knows this,
(04:57):
I know, like nobody knows it in their life, right,
Like yes, they've literally like built their life around people
that did not know that this was the thing, and
they just never told somenybody, Yeah, oh that's your sister.
Has anybody talked to Ethan's mom? I mean, it's it's
(05:17):
very interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh okay, So it reminded me at least when I
read about the synopsis, right, and then throughout the first
episode a little bit too. But there was a show
on Netflix called Echoes, Oh okay, and it was about
identical twins, right, and I'm gonna spoil it right now.
I'm gonna spoil it, so if you haven't watched Echoes,
(05:39):
it's still enjoyable to watch even after I spoil this.
But basically they secretly switch places every every few years.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh, I think I So they get to live each
other's lives.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Wow, and they're so good at doing each other, like
the little idiosyncrencies that they have that literally nobody in
their lives has figured this out. They're not their husbands,
their children, Wow, right, Like they switch lives and so
like the kids don't know that their.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Mom is switching. Is both sisters? Really?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Wow? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
It's wild and it's really interesting. But you kind you're like, Okay,
but if I.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Was twins and I'm looking at both of their lives,
I'm like, it wasn't a bad idea, That's.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Right, Because do you need a break from this part?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Once you see the cast and who's in it and
who they're married to kind of like cheers, I'm so
gonna have to check that out now. But I mean,
I know in this one they're not identical twins, but
they do look similar.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
M yeah, we'll get there, but first I have some thoughts. Oh, yes,
Chloe is being followed after an event, and this is
what I mean about like getting info in trips and
more context as things go along. Because initially I was like,
don't go home. I thought you were smart. She was driving,
(07:06):
she looks in the rearview mirror, realized she's being followed,
and the next thing you see, she's pulling into her driveway.
Like I thought you were smart right home. She didn't.
She only waited there for a little bit. She didn't.
But we didn't first. But like in the very beginning,
we didn't even see that she pulled over. Oh do
we didn't, like you see that she's she's leaves the party,
(07:30):
she notices the car behind her, and then the next
thing you see, she's pulling into her own driveway, and
I'm like, it's not until a little bit later, oh,
that we see her. We see we see more context
where they give us little drips and drabs where she
pulls over to the side of the road and the
car drives by. Wow. Yeah, okay, totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
It totally fused in my mind that we I thought
we saw her start to pull over.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Oh interesting, h okay, yeah, memory, But it was like.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
At first, like, yeah, don't. I was like it don't.
Well then and once again I'm wondering why the rich
people don't have video doorbells and working security cameras. I mean,
we wondered this last time with you. I'm like, they're cheap.
They're cheap. I mean really they're they're not expensive, and
(08:25):
they're cheap for the cost, right, right, Like she could
have seen who went into the house? Right, why don't?
Why don't? Is it?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Like I don't know what it is. Maybe it's maybe
it's just not bougie enough.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I mean maybe not. But and maybe they just they
value their privacy so much. That just missed me with that,
like that, all this entire show could have been avoided
if they'd had a ring doorbell. All right, So our
next sponsor is so a coworker of both Chloe and
(09:02):
Adam lament that Adam is clean because now he's often
late to these kind of events. I'm like, what did
he take? And did it make him punctual? They're like, well,
he's clean. They were so like sad about it.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I see, I really yeah, I know that that kind
of went over I guess passed my head a little bit.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I was like, yeah, what is he cleaned from that
made him punctual? I don't know. Are people more punctual
when they're on cocaine? I don't I don't know. I
don't know either. I mean, I know, like Wall Street
people did a lot of cocaine in the eighties, so
maybe they would have been maybe he would have been
(09:50):
more punctual. I don't know. That's really funny. M I
have no idea. Okay, well, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Have to google that.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Adam may have been late to the event, but I
did appreciate that he greeted the most important people first,
Chloe and Evan. He made a point to say hello
to both of them first. They are tricksy. In the show,
those private moments look really loving and supportive. But I've
(10:23):
watched a little more and so I know that those
aren't really an accurate representation of what's happening. And you
kind of get that feeling a little bit. But you're like, oh,
but then they're so nice to each other in the
hotel room after the event, yeah, or their bedroom. I
think they were at their house. I think they were
at their apartment in New York City. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(10:43):
But like, you know, oh, it seems so nice. I'm like, oh,
they're lying to us.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well yeah, I mean, I mean you kind.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Of have to. I mean, even within the kind confines
of the show. But that's what made me suspicious of
it like right lying to.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Me, almost too nice, So what's wrong here?
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That's right? The user name of a person on a
message board is killer Chad sixty nine. That it was like,
that sounds like somebody's idea of a bad guy use
her name right, Like they think they're being really deceptive
and clever, and they're not. They're not. They're just you
(11:25):
know what, user names are hard to pick out.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Uh huh, they really are, but yeah, maybe not that one.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
At least the person who sent the creepy modified porno
to Chloe in her New York apartment to use the
cret form of your in their note.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I don't know why that tickles, was like, well.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
At least to use the right kind of your. I mean,
I don't know who sent it, but that's really funny.
Mm hmm. I'm like, I'm like, I have to look
at the.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Screen grab of this now, Like I'm gonna have to
go back and look because what use the right and
I can't picture.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
It right now. Yeah, she's sitting in the car and
she yea, and there's a note yeah, and he's the
right form of yours. That's really funny, which I was like, oh,
I appreciate it. Okay, Okay, So whoever said this is
you know, educated, Yeah, at least through high school. Good job, Yes,
(12:31):
through high school.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
I mean it really should be through middle school to
get that right.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
But I digress. I know, and I know lots of
people of high school educations who use the wrong Your
Chloe is being interviewed by the detectives and she refuses
an attorney, and again I'll say I thought she was smart.
I know.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
They always tell you that that's not smart though.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
They always tell you that even if you're innocent, right,
always have a lawyer always. Would you like an attorney? Yes,
I would like an attorney in a single time every
especially if you're innocent, I mean almost especially. They're gonna
tell you that it makes you look guilty. And that
(13:15):
is because the police don't want you to have an advocate. Yes,
it does not behoove them for you to have an advocate.
You should have an advocate always. Always.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
It's almost like I think it's a time now that
the trope has turned that if you say no, it's
almost like you're trying to play it off.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
It's almost to me like more of a caution flag.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Maybe in this arena of the true crime adjacent to watchers.
I think there's a lot of people who still think, well,
I don't need an attorney because I didn't do anything wrong,
you mean attorney. The most she has the second cell phone.
Chlorie has a second cell phone. I'm like, I'm so
(14:00):
suspicious people with second cell phones. I know. It's a
world where we didn't have to have that anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Remember when cell phones first came out and pagers, you
always had to have your work and your personal life
right right now, it's not that often that you have
to have not so often.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
No, but and certainly not a flip phone. Like, if
you're going to have a work phone and a regular
personal phone, you're probably kinding to both of them are
going to be probably smartphones, right, probably right? She need
to be able to text without hitting, you know, eight
four times some good teenie. Yeah, exactly. So police searched
(14:42):
the house, and Ethan rests by the pool, and Chloe
decides to go for a walk, and she takes the
SIM card out and throws the phone away within feet
I mean yes, of her steps down to the beach,
like it's right there. I'm like, come on, no walk
(15:04):
further I mean, just like, yep, a metal detector is
going to find that. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Come on, put it in the water. I mean, just
stroy it somehow at least come on, No, it wasn't
It wasn't a him.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Again, I'm like, I thought you were smart. I thought
you were smart. Chloe's coworker Catherine says good riddance about
Adam's staff, and I'm like, is that heartless or is
it accurate? You never knew? Ah huh. And I'm like,
I feel like there's things we don't know about Adam
(15:41):
that make me wonder could it be accurate? I mean
maybe yeah. I mean, you get to the end of
the episode.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
You watched the first episode, so you already figure out
that Ethan is not the biological sun of Chloe. You
already you find out that Chloe, even if you just
encapsulate the first episode, you find that this man had
a son with one sister and then married the other
(16:07):
sister and took the son.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Uh huh.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
You know, I'm sure that there are reasons why that
might be that might happen, you know what I mean,
that are legitimate. I get that, especially if you're dealing
with addiction, which you seem to be dealing with and
stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So I get it.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And a lot of sisters and siblings they grow up
as friends, right, so if it falls apart, is not
wild that he would then fall in love with the
other sister because they Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
But he's dead now, so.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, definitely colors this the whole thing a little differently.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Well, and I definitely thought, well, now I see why
Chloe and Adam didn't have biological children together because uh hi,
here's my sibling cousin. Yeah, that's so weird. Yep. Yeah.
So Ethan claims that some guccie sneakers and Beats headphones
(17:02):
are missing. It's like, are they missing or did they
go to Kevin as payment for drugs because Kevin is
his friend who's also a drug dealer, Yeah, selling lots
of weed. Yeah yeah, uh huh yeah, I think so.
I think he's trying to like just sneak it in there.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Also, you know, teenagers are just like they're so smart,
they're almost right, you.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Know what I mean, Like, okay, not bad thinking.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
I see what you did there. You try to sneak
it in there?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
You can get your stuff back, uh huh. It was clever.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
It was not right, right, but it was kind of clever,
and it was kind of clever. Or they're just under
his bed, let mama go look in.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
So Ethan doesn't want to be romanded to his biological
mother's custody, and Chloe assures him that that won't happen, Like,
how rich are you because the paperwork is going to
be a problem. You're not Kate in you love bull rich?
I know.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
No.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Nikki takes a lot of luggage with her to ny See,
a lot all that luggage, and then she uses her
sister's roll on to yodorant. I was like you you like,
I mean, at least if it was like a stick
to yodorant, you can get the top yeah, like you
wipe off the top layer and it's like, okay, it's fine. Yeah,
(18:29):
but a roll on toyodorant that's a single user item.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah yeah, even really even like, let's discuss whether this
is even something we should be using. The backwash of
the body situation into the stuff is still there the
next day you use it. But that's why it's a
single user item, at least a single use yeah, yes, yes,
So a little trivia, okay, It was filmed in New
(18:54):
York City a lot of it. It's based on a
novel by Alpherd Burke. Part of the reason that they
did this project together is both Jessica Bill and Elizabeth
Banks have been told they look like one another.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Oh that's so funny, Okay, that they've often been look
like Jessica Bill, I have to look like is Elizabeth Banks?
I meant I would mix them up to right.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I would.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
I would if they weren't so different in their heights.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I guess that's true, but like before I really could,
I'd have to look up, Like if I saw a show,
I'd be like.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Which one?
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Who is?
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Which one's which? Yeah? Girl, where's that? Jessica Bielle originally
read for the role of Nikki, and I think it
was smart. Castors Chloe and Elizabeth Banks went cold Turkey
sober for three months to prepare for this role. Oh cool. Yeah.
I was like, I really, I'm gonna do it, okay.
(19:56):
I was like, good for you, for her, all right.
I was trying to figure out a resource okay. And
I went back to the don't go home if You're
being followed, Yes, Dorigo and Diaz, which is a law
firm in Tampa, Florida, has some suggestions on their website.
Oh good, okay, okay, there's ways to tell if you're
(20:19):
being followed. Okay, okay. If you're in a city, you
make four right turns, so four right turns will put
you back the same way you were going. If the
car is still behind.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You, you're absolutely being followed. If you're on the interstate,
exit and then get right back on the highway, and
if they also do that.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
You're being followed. Okay, makes sense. Whether you're in the
city or on the interstate or wherever you are, change
your pace, slow way down ten fifteen miles under the
speed limit. And if they don't pass you, you're being followed.
What should you do if you're being followed? Should you do? Uh? Huh?
You should stay came, be alert, make up a point
(21:04):
to be observant of your surroundings. Do not let them
know that you realize you're being followed. Don't stare at
them in the rear view mirror. Don't signal it could
escalate the situation. Never ever ever drive home because they
might be trying to learn where you live, right and
(21:27):
see what the situation around your home is like, So
if you can drive in the opposite direction from home,
do not go towards your house. If you can, go
to the nearest law enforcement station. So whether it's police
or fire department or whatever, go to their parking lot
and then you can call nine one one from your phone.
(21:49):
If they're still around and you're feeling normally, that'll be
enough that that'll be enough to you. They know you've
been followed, but now you're too close to somebody who
can do something about it. So if you know you're
being followed, call nine one talk to somebody. If you
(22:10):
think you're being followed, you can still call nine one one,
even if you're not one hundred percent church. Just call
them and tell them I'm concerned, I don't I'm sitting
in this parking lot or i'm you know, if you
can't get to a police station, if you don't know
where one is, a any well lit area with a
lot of people, that's going to be a big deterrent.
(22:30):
You can call police from there. Yeah makes sense. Yeah,
there may be nothing you can do to prevent being followed,
but don't post your location on social media. If you
want to do it as you're leaving or when you
get home that night, then post oh I had a
great night at this place without telling anybody where I
(22:51):
am there now, because that tells people that you're not
home and gives your location. It's better to do it
after the fact. It's scary to be followed, but keep
your cool. You can do this. Yes, you could just
go somewhere really populated. That'll help. And don't be afraid
to call nine one one. Yeah, you pay your taxes.
(23:12):
Call yes, exactly. They can meet you and you can
give them the license plate of whomever was following you,
and then at least they have a record so when
that person does it again, they can be like, oh, yeah,
we've heard about this guy before. He does have road
(23:33):
rage exactly, Yes, yes he does. So here's how it works.
Christie recks her search history. Hey an essay.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
We promise it's nothing more nefarious than a podcast to
find out what's true some of the psychological motivations behind
the character's actions and real life applications that relate to
our topic. I have no idea what Christy decided to
look up could be the same thing that captured my
curiosity or something I never thought of.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Is it true? No, no, it's fictional. As I said before,
Ala fair Burke did draw upon some of her experiences
as a former prosecutor in Portland, Oregon for a few years,
so she did kind of like base how things happened
(24:26):
on her experience. So it's fictional but also a little
based in reality. Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
The Real Thing magazine, Okay, I had to look it
up because I was like immediately, I was like, wait,
wait what, No, nope.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Real Simple that I was thinking of. That's right, Real Simple. Yes,
it's fiction, as is the law firm that Adam worked for.
Both fictional though. I was like, okay, so the Real
Thing and Real Simple, And I love Real Simple, don't
get me wrong. Yeah, I really do. Is like, if
I'm gonna go sit in the waiting room in a
hospital or something, I'm gonna buy myself a copy of
(25:03):
Real Simple.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Real Simple. However, it's the real thing, Real Simple. It's
not real life for most people. But no, no, it's
like saying, goop is something something that everybody shops on
all the time.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Yeah, no, No, I mean that's the thing about magazines though,
is that.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Yeah, there was some you.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Know, practical things you might get from advertisements or whatever.
But it's just kind of like it's it's fun, yes,
because it's like the ooh, the what if and you
might you might not do that, but you might get
an idea. Yes, right, that's the thing I love those. Okay,
magazines used to be a lot bigger. Can we just
talk about this for one second. Sure, magazines used to
(25:47):
actually be hefty.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Well, especially real Simple used to be like enormous.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
They're flimsy now flimsy Okay, so Vogue, Cosmo. These used
to be like, you'd I won, and it will last
you the whole time till the next yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
The whole month until the next one came out.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Because I mean it was hefty.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
I mean yeah, there were a lot of advertisements in it,
but they were beautiful and you loved looking at them
and it was really fun and all that.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Okay, I don't know how I got signed up for
some kind of subscription thing that I got Cosmo all
last year.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
I really don't know why.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Okay, it's a pamphlet and the advertisements are terrible for
the most part.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Only once was there actually a perfume sample.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
How in the world that used to be a staple
that was the think you wanted to have all that? Yeah, well,
and I think Cosmos very they're very good online, see,
and that's the thing they've all been to, right, I mean,
and that's that's where the advertising dollars are.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But it's coming back, yeah, because the whole there's a
whole renaissance of print.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
So it's coming back.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
And I cannot wait for magazines, real magazines to come
back that are.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Hefty, yeah, yes, like and a subscription like where you get.
I don't like these little one offs.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
It's like if you go into like Barnes and Noble
and you look at the magazines, there's a ton of magazines,
but they're not they're one off prints about a one thing, right.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yes, that might all about one musical artist or all
about like whatever, one event.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Or one event, one topic, one thing. It's not a series,
like it's not.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I don't like that.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Because it's one publishing company that just keeps uh huh.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Spitting them out, spitting them out. Yep, mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Okay, that's my diatribe about magazines.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Is fifteen million views in a twenty four hour period viral. Yeah, yes, yeah,
I agree, Blue host says basically, yes, by any metric,
fifteen million views in twenty four hours would absolutely be viral.
(28:04):
But it really depends on the platform whether it's considered
viral or not. So for TikTok, a million views in
a week is viral. YouTube? Five million views per post? Okay,
Instagram a million views Facebook would be just one hundred
(28:25):
thousand views Twitter. Ten thousand reposts will get you a
viral situation. What are the things that are going to
cause a post to go viral? Relatability and authenticity, novelty
and creativity or this is probably what was happening with
(28:46):
this congressional testimony that Chloe was giving timing and trend relevance.
So it happened to be a really relevant thing. So
a lot of people saw it. Yeah, but really by any.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
Metric, I mean, that's yeah, a heck of a lot.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah, that's a that's a lot of eyeballs. Yeah. Yeah.
Is the hashtag women are essential exclusive to the show?
I don't think so. Okay, No, it's not huge. But
the executive director of the California Commission on the Status
of Women and Girls, her name is Tracy Totton, and
(29:26):
she's been using the hashtag women are Essential as part
of her position since at least twenty twenty three. Okay,
so she's She's posted with the hashtag women are essential
on LinkedIn a number of times over in the past
couple of years.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
I feel like I've seen, oh really, I'm like, I
feel like I've seen that hashtag women are essential one
thousand plus posts right now, and then there's a few variations.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So I don't know, maybe it's a round around. It's
not huge, it's not quite as gigantic as this portrayed
in the show, right, but also very cool, very cool.
So nine one one told Chloe to leave the house.
Might they have done this with an injured person in
the house, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
They might have, especially if it's foul play exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
And I think that that is the situation that if
you call nine one one, if there's an immediate threat
to your safety, that could be fire, hazardous materials, gas leak,
weather like hurricanes and flooding, but also crimes in progress
or life threatening situations. They didn't know if the person
(30:43):
who'd killed Adam was still in the house, so I
don't know that. I guess outside, you're gonna have a
better ability to get away if somebody comes after you, right, yeah,
rather than being in the house, right, I would think, so, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah, I mean you don't want a horror movie it
and run upstairs.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Right, yeah, exactly. We don't need to be shouting at her.
She's done enough unintelligent things. Yeah, she doesn't need to
do that as well. Another reason they may ask you
to leave the house is situations requiring an investigative response,
like utility disruptions, are building damage or a criminal investigation,
(31:24):
So get out before you mess up our crime scene. Yeah, basically.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
To be sensitive about it.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
So Detective GUIDRII took her own photos and that seems
a little weird to Detective Bowen. Is it a weird
thing to do?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
I don't think it's that weird, but it is a
bit ironic, like, okay, but we hired the people, uh huh.
But also she's not wrong, like she's gonna see something
her own way, and that's a memory.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Thing for her, right. But also.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
If she's not taking good photos, then her photos aren't
as representative.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Of the truth.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
And people are trained for this. So it's like, I'm
sure it happens. I don't think it's probably the best
thing in the world, but I understand why she wants to.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
Right, I totally understand why she wants to also maybe
wait for the photographer to get there and ask them
to take pictures a certain way. Yes, so that you
have this like chain of command like and chain of evidence,
so it's clear that you didn't disrupt it. It's okay.
(32:36):
They might learn how to take better pictures. Detective if
you tell the photographer, hey, look at these things. Yeah,
teach them a little bit of what detectives want to
see and to see.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
But also they are already trained, I think.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
But I kind of got from the other detective who
is like, they do this is their job, right, they.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Know what to take a picture of.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
See things differently, And the look on his face said, no,
you don't. I don't see things differently than the person
who's literally trained to do this.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (33:09):
It seemed like a little silly.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
But I mean yes. There's a methodical approach to crime
scene investigation that is taught as a textbook called an
Introduction to Crime Scene Investigation by Eric Do Tell, No
Way d U T E L L TEL. Come on,
that's hysterical, Eric do tell investigation, which I thought washing
(33:36):
and as I'm like, I don't even care if that's
not really his name. It's so good.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I mean, that feels like a character from Clue.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean to tell.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
But uh.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
In Hit chapter six of his book, he basically talks
about how there's systematic approaches that are taught so that
they can collect as much evidence as possible, and that
includes things like reports and note taking, photography, videography, crime
scene sketching, and mapping. Now, some of those things are overlap,
(34:12):
they're redundant intentionally, Yes, that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
She is biasing herself, huh, because what she sees is
she's coming at it from that and puzzle making, but
she doesn't have at all documented to look at it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Right, So if she takes a picture.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Of something, she's automatically gonna think whatever she took a
picture of is more important.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Right, And that's a bias, right for sure. Because crime
scene photography, the photographers are taught to take it in
a way that tells the story. Yeah, right, it really
does tell a story. Now you want to capture as
much of that story as possible, but also you want
to try and remove as much bias as possible, right, Right.
(34:56):
It used to be that the photograph themselves were evidence,
and now it's like what's depicted in the photograph as evidence.
And they used to require the photographer to be able
to talk about how the picture was taken and how
it was developed and what the process was that they
could be sure that it had been done properly. And
(35:19):
now it's like, no, we don't care about that anymore
because nobody's processing these photos the same way they used
to their digital photos, right, and just for because I
thought it was interesting because our podcast and sometimes I
just talk about things that I think are interesting. They
(35:39):
take photos at different stages, so they take like an
overall photo of a scene, and then they move in
closer and take photos and then they do the detail
like evidence sort of photos, which I was like, oh,
that makes sense again. They're telling the story. They're going
to take wide ranging pictures so that they can understand
(36:03):
what's going on, and then they're going to move in deeper.
Elimination samples, yes, those are for sure, they are, And
the National Institute of Justice does specifically say it's a
sample taken from a person who's known to have lawful
(36:27):
access to the crime scene, and it could be blood
or DNA swabs, fingerprints, they talked about all of those.
They took pictures of Ethan and chloeing, and they might
also take tire tread impressions from police vehicles, which I
hadn't thought of, or footwear impressions from emergency personnel, just
(36:51):
like we know these people showed up after the fact.
A reference sample is a little different. So reference sample
is something that is known to be at the scene,
but we don't know where it came from. It could
have come from somebody who was lawfully there, but it
(37:15):
also might belong to the perpetrator. Right. All of the
sources that we use to inform our discussion here on
Killer Fund Podcast can be found on our social media.
Join us on Facebook at Killer Fun Podcast, exploring the
intersection of crime and entertainment. You can find us on
Twitter at killer funpod, or you can send us an
(37:38):
email at Killerfunpodcast at gmail dot com and I'd be
happy to share a link to whatever information you're looking for.
We love to hear from you. You might learn a
little something too. Psychology break Okay, okay, So it's clear
that the end of the first episode that the police
like Ethan for this a little bit. It's pretty clear
(38:00):
that they think the sun did it, and they're kind
of pushing towards them a little bit. Yes, Ethan doesn't
really seem in the first episode to fit the profile
of children who murder. Yeah, we don't have a lot
of evidence about this, but typically it's kids who've endured abuse, neglect, assault, trauma,
(38:28):
other challenging upbringing that's a risk factor. It's there are
plenty of kids who've had no issues quote unquote a
normal upbringing that go on to do heinous things and
we don't know why. But at least in the first episode,
(38:49):
there aren't things that you see about Ethan that make
you think, oh my gosh, he's a murderer. Absolutely, he's
a murderer.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah no, And we don't have a good way to
predict that at all because the mass majority of people
who have, you know, a history of.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Trauma or abuse don't do that.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Right, So, exactly exactly adolescent murders. Now, this is a
journal article. It's a little old from two thousand and two, okay,
but there's not a lot of like adolescent murder research.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's only all you can
do is archival data, right, Well, and because it doesn't
happen that often, right, there's not a whole lot of data, right, Well,
and especially when it's not gang related, right, you know,
it's not organized crime. It's just like these one off
there's it's not a lot of it's hard to find.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
However, this was done in the UK. They looked at
groups of people who were in prison for having committed burglary.
Some of them had committed murder as well, some of
them had not, and they kind of compared them and
they did find that they tended to have a lower
(40:06):
socioeconomic status if they committed murder, that they had harsh parenting,
and they were more likely to have harsh parenting from
their mother than their father, which I thought was interesting.
It is interesting. Yeah, authoritarian style is not.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Is not.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Correlated with good outcomes.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Overall the of the different styles. Yeah, people think they're
doing tough love and sometimes that's what's needed. A lot
of the time, it's detrimental. Yes, it makes children feel unsafe. Yeah,
tough love is.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
I have thoughts. I have many thoughts about tough love.
It's not if you can't define.
Speaker 3 (40:57):
It out with other words, it's probably not worth doing.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Oh, that's fair. That's really fair. There was a study
from a North Sumata University in Indonesia, so a little
bit different culture, but they did find that it was
often a pattern of neglect or indifference or insensitivity for
(41:24):
children who murdered. And then this guy went into like
all kinds of Sigmund Freud oh stuff, which was kind
of interesting that plus it's hard. Yeah, it is concluded
that the causes of criminal active murder committed by children
and the perspective of criminal psychology are due to internal
(41:47):
and external factors.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
Oh great, Oh yeah, right, I love those blanket statements.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
Internal factors where they lack the self control so that
the id ego and super ego do not run well.
I was like, okay, and external factors being you know,
that they learned from the people around them, or they've
suffered neglect and don't have a good framework.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
I was like, wow, he said, and.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Seriously he did not say that ironically, I know.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Not at all. Yeah, okay, But at the end of
the first episode, we don't know, we don't know, we
do not know what happened. We don't know if Ethan
killed Adam. The detectives seem to think that he did,
but it is really hard on parents who have children
(42:45):
who end up murdering Well yeah, I mean yeah. So
it back in twenty eleven and PR had a show
called Talk of the Nation. They were talking to parents
who children had done some horrible things. At that time,
(43:05):
it was relevant because there was a man named Jared
Loftner who had done a shooting in Tucson, Arizona, out
of shopping mall. And so there was a woman, Janette
Halton Higgs, who really empathized because her son had previously
(43:27):
shot a police officer who then died, and she had
a lot of guilt and shame and despair about it.
Really felt for the family. Jeanette was talking kind of
openly about her experience, how it affected her, and that
(43:47):
she spoken with a psychiatrist, e Fuller Tory, and he
said that he estimated he's the founder of the Treatment
Advocacy Center, and he estimated that there were at any
given time about forty thousand potentially dangerously mental ill mentally
(44:11):
ill people in the United States just like out roaming
the streets at any time. Now. Most of them are
not going to do anything, but they have the potential there, right,
And her son who ended up attacking a police officer.
She's like, he does not represent most the mentally ill people.
(44:31):
She's like, however, he was very severely mentally ill, and
most of the time they end up being victims rather
than the perpetrators. So she was. But also she had
a lot of feelings about it. She was like, I
did everything I could to get him help, but people
(44:54):
looked at me like I had done a bad job
raising him right, And that's part of the thing. And
and a man named Dave Cullen wrote a book called Columbine,
and he talked about how intense intensely the parents were
(45:14):
seen almost as perpetrators themselves for what their children did.
And in fact that shortly after Columbine and then years later,
they took a poll and eighty three percent of people
blamed the parents as being just as responsible, if not
more so, than the children themselves. And it can be
(45:37):
really hard because you can see there's something obviously wrong
with the teenager and they're having problems, or are they
just having what seems to be normal teenage angst. It
can be really difficult to tell the difference between those two.
Then they had a caller callin and she was talking
about how her son was sixteen at the time, and
(46:01):
he basically was too severely mentally ill for the public
services that were available, so they started to want to
put him through the legal system, which would basically just
get him released and have no sort of support, Which
is like, they didn't have a state mental facility for
(46:21):
me to send him to. So so what am I
supposed to be?
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (46:25):
I can't. I can't just I'm afraid of what he'll
do if I just put him out on the street.
So it's easy to say those parents are responsible, and
sometimes it's true. Sometimes parents provide access to weapons that
they should not, even though there was no gun in
this situation, right, it was a knife. You can't not
(46:49):
have some sort of knife in your house. You need
to cut things, I mean for cooking and whatnot. Yeah,
you can't do a way with every weapon, no, right, No.
But also I just thought it was interesting to kind
of look at where Chloe and Nikki were at with
(47:13):
you know, how much blame do they take and how
much guilt do they need to feel about it? They
you know, raise this kid, but he doesn't seem like
a bad kid. Did they do something wrong? Is he
hiding stuff? I thought that part of it was kind
of interesting.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, I mean it's hard because if you're a good parrot,
of course you're to take full responsibility for it, right
and then and then you're gonna have to work at
laying that responsibility down for the most part, except where
maybe you do have some responsibility, you know, you know,
predicting school shooters.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
We can't do that at all. No, we know some
risk factors.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
We can only understand the risk factors based on what
the outcome was. We only know their risk factor because
it's it's something that was there and a person who
actually chose to do the thing, And so all we
know is how to profile the person backwards in time, right,
because so many people have all of those same quote
(48:14):
risk factors and don't go on to do that.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
We cannot predict this at all.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
There's no profile, right, So, like you know, at least
for school shooters and things like that when we're talking
about and that's what makes teenagers so hard, because they
are experiencing so much, you know, and if a parent
has an inkling that there's something, there's only so much
you can do. And I think that's that's the point,
is you can only do so much, and they think
(48:41):
that's the parent that is already feeling responsible for the
potential of something going wrong, right, And that's that's really
hard because you you you're not it's not your fault.
You are responsible for what choices you make to try
to help to try to be there.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
But also you know, well, it's sad.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
You see a lot of people who have these kids
who end up doing some things that are not okay,
And maybe a parenting expert or psychologist or somebody could come.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
In and tell the parent, these are all the choices you.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Made, yeah, made them likely, right.
Speaker 3 (49:16):
But not everybody's a parenting expert.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Right, Not everybody's a parenting expert. And there are kids
who do terrible things whose parents didn't do any of
the right things that quote unquote should have made this
kid homicidal, right. You just it's so hard to know.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
I mean, you look at some of the times and
you're like, okay, but you were not paying attention to
your kid, right, Like you were not right, Like you
were not being careful, you know, like they just held
the parents responsible in one of the shooting school shooting situations,
right because they bought them the gun, right, knowing that
he had some risk factors that would have played a role.
(49:58):
But what they got, what they got them on was
the fact that they illegally allowed the child to have
a that And that's the point, Like, are you you
know what I mean? So, yes, that just happened in
our town. Yes, gosh, I was sad, Mama be buy
and stuff. It was terrible gosh, So I mean terrible.
(50:19):
I just think that as a parent, take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Well, and she totally should take responsibility, and all parents
are going to have some sort of responsibility for it.
But if you did the things I tried to get
my child's psychiatric help, and I was unable to do
so because of external factors. I removed weapons from my
house in order to make sure that my kid didn't
(50:43):
have access to them, but he got access to them anyway, right,
you know, Okay, you tried, you did, that's different.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
But like denying kids' mental health, right right, Like this
is where I think the lines are for us, is
that there's a lot of parenting styles and parenting like
subcultures that unfortunately.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
You learn the hard way.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, and it may not be that they grow up
and are violent, but they but that outcomes still aren't good.
But if you ignore things, think that everything is rosy
and really just ignore obvious signs.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
At that point, it's hard, how much do you But again, like.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
It's only once they've done something terrible, right, that that
you know that you're responsible, or that you're those actions
that you chose to make, denying taking your kid to
a therapist or whatever.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
It's so hard, like you think we do. We're judging.
We're judging of each other as parents.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
We really are, you know, right well, And also also
here's the thing of it. You look at that and
you want to think it could never be my case.
It could always be your kid. It could always be
your kid and.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Always yeah, yes, it could always be your kid.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Uh huh. But people want the security of it couldn't
happen in my family. And you know what, every kid
who's ever died by an accidental shooting in their home thought,
it won't happen in my house. Every parent thought, right.
Speaker 3 (52:13):
And that's just the extreme outcomes, right, not to even
mention just regular.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
Regular run of the mill.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
You know, we're judging of each other all the time.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, sometows somebody acting acting wrong, and my first thought
is upbringing.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
Really. I mean, it's just immediately like.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Some people's children, you know, I'm like that mama did
not teach them right.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Maybe she tried.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Uh huh, that's right. Maybe it wasn't that mom didn't
teach herm right. Maybe they just are incapable of learning.
Yeah yeah, real life. So Chloe has some impressive real
world counterparts, at least business wise. So she was a magazine,
(53:00):
an editor in chief and a best selling author. Hanya
Yanagihara wrote a best selling novel called A Little Life,
and most recently To Paradise, which was number one in
twenty twenty two on the New York Times bestseller List,
and she is also the editor in chief of Team magazine,
(53:22):
the New York Times style magazine. Nice Yeah, I write
that magazine. Kate White was the editor in chief of
Cosmopolitan from nineteen ninety eight to twenty twelve. She has
written twenty six books in total, eighteen fiction, eight nonfiction,
(53:45):
ten of them on the Bestsellersang good for her, and
she quit being editor in chief of Vogue to write
fiction because she was good enough at it. Transparency in
wage is actually good for business? Is actually so when
you disclose the pay range for a position. When you
(54:09):
advertise it, it helps close the gender wage gaps.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
That it gives transparency to job and applicants and they
understand how they can negotiate for pay and whether they
should even try to go after that job. That job
doesn't pay enough. I'm not going to spend my time.
And they actually then don't waste the company's time applying
(54:33):
for a job that is not going to pay them
at the rate which they require.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
It's such a problem getting companies to understand that advertising
your your the pay for the job is so important.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
Uh huh, you will.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
And here's the thing that companies don't want to hear.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Advertising the wage will save the company money.
Speaker 1 (54:56):
Uh huh, yes, because you don't spend your time interviewing
people who are not going to accept your pay range.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Yep. And what's really funny is that if they have
low balled the wage necessary to hire somebody, a lot
of times what happens is they'll try to lowball it,
which is why they're not advertising it, because they know
that what people want to be.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Paid for it is much higher. So they try to
do that.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
They'll hire somebody, they'll hire somebody willing to take that
wage and it won't work out. Uh huh, they'll have
to go back and they'll have to find higher quality
candidates and raise it.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
So now you've spent onboarding dollars and all of that,
all because you didn't advertise it.
Speaker 3 (55:37):
You got somebody to go through the process.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
You low balled it, they took it anyway, All of
these things that people just figure out what the job
is actually worth, honestly and then advertise it. Yeah, and
guess what your productivity will be fantastic?
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, yeah, getting them get somebody who can do the
job from the go, right, or advertise it as an
entry level position. Right. It's fine to have entry level people,
it is, but make sure it's entry level.
Speaker 3 (56:10):
Don't lie to yourselves.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah right, and then also advertise it because if you're
not getting the quality candidate you want, then you also know, right, like, oh,
well this is obviously with little bald what this is
valued at. Yeah, as far as the professional quality is.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
Concerned, exactly. So, oh, here's a frustrating thing. So back
in nineteen sixty three, they Equal Pay Act was passed
to saying you can't pay one sex less than the
other for the same or similar work, because that used
(56:52):
to be a thing I did all the time. So
that is way back in nineteen sixty three. So basically
what they did it was jobs that they didn't want
to pay well for. They just hired women. Colorado in
twenty nineteen had to pass the Equal Pay for Equal
(57:12):
Work Act, so many years later, and that part of
that was requiring that job postings disclose benefits, pay ranges,
promotional opportunities. California's Fair Pay Act was passed in twenty
fifteen and had to be updated in twenty twenty three.
(57:35):
That again salary ranges in advertisements and to current employees
if you had fifteen or more employees, like seven states
have done this in twenty twenty five. It's like we're
and it's not. I wish it was working better. I mean,
we've been at this for a long time. No wonder
(57:58):
Chloe is still having to advocate for the yes. Right.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
It's so hard because oh yeah, I'm gonna say the
problem is that some of the wage gap is implicit bias.
It's stuff that you don't see as the obvious problem,
right where it's not literally like oh, you both hold
the same job, and you are literally getting different salaries
and we just need to make them equal. What happens
(58:25):
is they end up at different salaries.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Right.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
They might have been hired on for the same salary
because it was the same job.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
Over time, the man will make more because he.
Speaker 2 (58:35):
Will have garnered more raises, more bonuses, and more promotional
opportunity than the woman. Right. And the reason for that
is childcare situations, right, mostly childcare situations, right.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
The willingness to forego family time.
Speaker 2 (58:54):
You know, all of these kinds of things that over time,
negotiation practices. Men are more empowered in our society to negotiate,
and so they will ask for the raise and negotiate it,
and the woman will wait for it to come to her. Yeah,
and it's typically speaking typically and so trying to at
the same level tell women you need to ask for
(59:15):
the rays.
Speaker 3 (59:16):
If you want the raise, you need to negotiate it.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
Also, companies need to be just more transparent about what
is appropriate.
Speaker 3 (59:23):
At what point do you get raises?
Speaker 2 (59:24):
To be just a little bit more pragmatic about it
so that people understand what they're looking for. But it's
just it's just but that's all under the radar, right,
so these are don't fix that, right.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
They don't. They can help fix the initial problem, right,
but they don't handle it long term. No, And we
need to be able to value I mean, we need children, right,
we need all all here all the time. We need children.
We need young people in order to support our economy.
(01:00:00):
A family is really important. Yeah, okay, well then we
should value it well.
Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
But they want to value it by having women not
work outs at the home, right, and the man being
the only one to work.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
And you know that's a fine choice to make, right,
there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
It could be the opposite, but it also needs to
be able to we can support all the options, right,
we really can't.
Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
The wage gap has closed a little bit. It's now
women making eighty four cents for every dollar that a
man makes.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Still not equal, no, no, And people are like, oh,
that's close enough.
Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Great, you just go ahead and do that math over
a course of a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Tell yeah, it's like four hundred thousand dollars that women
are missing out on.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
And estimated over time, women will have a one million
dollars less than men because of the promotional and the raises.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
As far as yes, promotional raises Also, women healthcare attends
to cost a little more in the initially, right, and
so you know, you have to look at those benefits.
Women end up spending more on healthcare than men do, right,
because having babies is ludicrously expensive and we don't value it.
(01:01:19):
We do not. Chloe was worried that Adam had been
attacked because she had been getting death threats. Unfortunately, this
happened in twenty twenty. There was a judge in New Jersey,
Judge Esther Salas, who had been getting death threats, and
(01:01:39):
a seventy two year old lawyer whose name I'm not
going to say, got mad about a judgment that she
made and he went to her home, shot her husband
and her son. And her son did not survive. It
was they were cleaning up after his twentieth birthday party.
Oh my god, and the guy ran the doorbell and
(01:02:01):
shot the kid. Awful, Yes, and the father was shot.
Her husband was shot and started screaming, called nine one
one and crawled outside to try and get the license
plate number to be able to tell police. Is so awful.
And yeah, this guy had a manifesto and proclaimed himself
(01:02:25):
an anti feminist. Unfortunately, federal judges are facing more and
more threats, and it's hard to know how much they
should be taken. Seriously, Chloe is wondering these things herself. Oh,
it was just just some Yahoo on the internet, blustering
(01:02:45):
and making themselves feel better. Or do I really need
to be concerned with us on a lighter note, yes, please.
So the detectives go and talk to low level drug
dealer Kevin, Oh yeah, and they tell him they don't
care about his Regano cut weed selling. Police have used
(01:03:10):
to Regano to stand in for weed in sting operations
in DC. In nineteen eighty one, there was a drug problem,
people selling weed, and so police decided that they were
gonna have undercover officers post as dealers in an area
(01:03:35):
of town that was very reputable for weed selling. Okay, right,
So basically they're going to infiltrate the place that's right,
most people are going to buy weed. And they called
it operation a Regano scam. And they had little bags
for regan now and sold them to people for five dollars,
(01:03:58):
just as if they might buind marijuana. That's funny, And
it wasn't to arrest people. It was to give the
area a bad rap o, like you would go there
and not get what you write what you want, and
people would come back mad and want their money back,
(01:04:19):
but there wasn't really anything they could do about it.
They're like, we're police officers. Too bad, we sold you.
We're keeping your money. The police officer to John isl
went to a supermarket and bought all the herbs that
looked good, fifty dollars worth of reg and o, tea leaves, parsley,
celery flakes. Mixed it in a big box, but it
(01:04:40):
didn't look good, so we added mud. Then we decided
the oregano was too strong, so we added vanilla extract
and then it smelled like vanilla, so we threw bird
seed in it. But they made up like three hundred
packets and it actually didn't really do very much. H
This one was really funny. In twenty ten, they tried
(01:05:03):
something similar. Okay, they had figured out that there was
a delivery service called Mindy's Muffins. They'd gotten a drug
dealer apprehended him and they went to his house and
he had a lot of weed. And there was a
phone that was ringing like every ninety seconds or so,
(01:05:26):
and it was because people call and ask for muffins
and then he'd be like a pizza delivery guy and
deliver them weed. Wow. Yeah, So the police officers they
had gone up quite a lot. It was about fifty
dollars for two and a half grams of weed. Wow
to have it delivered, I mean right, like half as
(01:05:49):
much weed for ten times the cost. But it was delivered, right.
Oh yeah, that's true though. So you know you pay
just like uber eats or whatever, you pay your weed
huh yeah, yeah, if you pay out premium to have
it brought to your house. So the agents decided they
were going to go ahead and start answering these Instead
(01:06:11):
of delivering marijuana, they were going to deliver packets of
a regano and dried coriander and arrest people. They made
about twenty arrests. The only problem is regano and coriander
not illegal. Ye, Like, just because they thought they were
buying weed, they didn't actually buy weed. So all of
(01:06:32):
the cases got through. Oh my gosh, you gotta sell
them actual weed if you're going to arrest.
Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Them, right, like, bless their hearts.
Speaker 1 (01:06:43):
It's not entrapment if they called and asked for it, right, Yes,
you can use the actual weed and then arrest them
and actually get a conviction. Great. I'm not even going
to talk about whether we should be legal or not.
But at that time it was not legal legal. That
(01:07:04):
is really funny. They they tried vanilla. Have they smelled
weed before? Good lord?
Speaker 3 (01:07:11):
Yeah, okay that can't for some reason, let that one go.
Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Yeah, like uticularly it was nineteen eighty one. They didn't
know better. I mean, but we just smelled the same
for a long time. This is true, This is true.
Next time cocaine air. How much did the French pilots
know in twenty thirteen, I do, probably more than they're lighting.
Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
On conor cocaine.
Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Bear, No, we have cocaine there. It's so great. It's great. Yeah,
I love it. Thank you so much for listening. We
know you make a choice when you listen to us.
We don't just come on the radio. You downlast and
put us in your ears. We really appreciate it. Please
rate and review wherever you get shows, because that helps
us get found and tell a friend. It is way
(01:07:59):
more fun when you can listen to a friend. Until
next time, be safe, be kind, and wash your hands.
Bob Bob
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