July 2, 2025 • 43 mins
Ever wonder how a love for spy novels can lead to a thrilling career chasing spies across Europe and the US? Or how bold, maverick moves can transform your personal and professional life? Join us in this captivating episode of Late Boomers as Merry Elkins and Cathy Worthington sit down with the remarkable Gina L. Osborn. From her beginnings in the army's counterintelligence program to her impactful 22 years with the FBI, Gina shares her incredible journey through cybercrime and counterterrorism in Los Angeles.
Discover how Gina's experiences inspired her podcast, Making Maverick Moves, and learn why authentic leadership is crucial—especially for women in male-dominated fields. Plus, get Gina's expert tips on avoiding scams and preparing for the 2028 LA Olympics. Tune in for a dose of inspiration and practical advice from a true maverick!
Connect with Gina:
Podcast: MakingMaverickMovesPodcast
Website: https://ginalosborn.com/
Thank you for listening. Please check out @lateboomers on Instagram and our website lateboomers.us. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to watch it or listen to more of our episodes, you will find Late Boomers on your favorite podcast platform and on our new YouTube Late Boomers Podcast Channel. We hope we have inspired you and we look forward to your becoming a member of our Late Boomers family of subscribers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Merry (00:01):
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy (00:14):
Welcome to late boomers, our podcast guide to creating
your third act with style,power, and impact. Hi. I'm Cathy
Worthington.
Merry (00:24):
And I'm Merry Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations with successfulentrepreneurs, entertainers, and
people with vision who aremaking a difference in the
world.
Cathy (00:34):
Everyone has a story, and we'll take you along for the
ride on each interview,recounting the journey our
guests have taken to get wherethey are, inspiring you to
create your own path to success.Let's get started.
Hi. I'm Cathy Worthington welcoming you to the late
(00:55):
boomers podcast. I'm here withmy cohost, Mary Elkins, and
we're going to be talking withGina Osborne, army veteran,
former safe chief safety andsecurity officer at LA Metro,
and retired FBI assistantspecial agent in charge of
fighting cyber terrorism andsafeguarding national security.
Merry (01:15):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Gina is also a TEDx speaker and the
host of Making Maverick Movespodcast. We're looking forward
to talking to her about her workleading the FBI's cybercrime and
counterterrorism operations inLos Angeles and hearing more
about her podcast. Welcome,Gina.
Gina L. Osborn (01:35):
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.
Merry (01:37):
Great to have you.
Cathy (01:39):
Yes. How do you think your upbringing and your career
and life journey led you towhere you are today?
Gina L. Osborn (01:49):
Gosh. That is a great question. Well, when I was
young, my dream was to be aninternational woman of intrigue.
I think I've read lots and lotsof spy novels and I was
fascinated with the CIA and theFBI and all I knew was I needed
to have a four year degree to dogo into the CIA and I was in my
(02:11):
second year of high school and ayoung man sat next I'm sorry, my
second year of college and I wasbroke. I didn't know how I was
gonna make it to a four yearuniversity and a young man sat
next to me and started tellingme about the army's counter
intelligence program and how Icould chase spies across Europe.
And so the next day, I went downto the army recruiters office
(02:34):
and I was wearing a black andwhite polka dotted dress and a
fuchsia hat because it was theeighties. Remember that ladies
back then?
Merry (02:41):
Oh, wow.
Gina L. Osborn (02:42):
And and I signed up. And then eight months later,
I was at Fort Jackson, SouthCarolina at basic training
eating dirt for a living.
Merry (02:52):
Oh, And you were chasing spies across Europe.
Gina L. Osborn (02:57):
You know, six years or six months after that,
I was assigned in to Germany andthen I wound up arriving in
Germany. They sent me to Belgiumbecause I had taken three years
of French in high school. Sowhenever your parents tell you
that you'll never use yourFrench, I am a example, I'm an
example as to how you can And,yeah. And so, I wound up I did
(03:19):
two years in Belgium at thesupreme headquarters Allied
Powers Europe and then Itransferred to Frankfurt,
Germany where I was on aspecialized team that,
investigated the highest profileespionage cases across the
European theater. And, that wasat the end of the cold war and,
yeah.
So I was there when the wallcame down and I'll tell you,
(03:41):
went from a cocktail waitress ata comedy club before I left
California to, like six monthslater, I was, in Europe chasing
spies. So it was really afascinating time.
Cathy (03:51):
Oh. It's interesting how you wanted to do that and then
ended up being able to do it ina very short time frame.
Gina L. Osborn (04:00):
I was very I was very excited and that's why I
always tell people the militaryis the way to go because they
will train you to do your dreamjob. And especially since I
eventually got into cyber andcomputer forensics, the the
military, the air force, thearmy, you know, they have
amazing, they're doing amazingthings in the cyber world and
(04:22):
they'll give you a whole bunchof training for free. Well, you
have to give them a little bitof time. It's not completely for
free. But, yeah, I it it changedmy life.
Being in the military for sixyears changed my life.
Merry (04:33):
I'm really glad to hear that because we really need
training in cyber terrorism,especially now. I wanna get to
all of that, but I I'd love toknow about your podcast, making
maverick moves. Tell us whatinspired you to do that and also
talk about the title. What's thereason for it?
Gina L. Osborn (04:52):
Sure. So, I started out with a podcast a few
years ago and it was called LeadLike a Lady. And when I created
that title, I thought aboutMargaret Thatcher being the iron
lady and so that was kind of theinspiration for that title. And
then, I went, I spent two yearsas the Chief Safety and Security
(05:12):
Officer at LA Metro, wound upbecoming a whistleblower and
that ended last year. And what Ireally learned from that
experience because I'm a bigbeliever that everything happens
for a reason and that we areexactly where we are supposed to
be and you know, there were alot of things that happened
after I was terminated for thevery first time in my life.
(05:34):
And I wound up going on themedia and talking about things,
that needed to change. And onething that came to mind was this
whole maverick move and what itwhat did that mean to me? And
that means when you go andyou're afraid of something and
you do it anyway, that to me isa maverick move. It could be a
(05:55):
huge maverick move, it could bea little maverick move, but
that's the thing. That's theonly way that you're gonna find
breakthrough success is if you,you know, find that threshold
and you move forward anyway.
Merry (06:07):
You hope it's the right maverick move.
Gina L. Osborn (06:10):
That's true. But I think if you have the training
and the experience, you know, II'd liken it to when I was in
the FBI and we would go to do anarrest warrant at somebody's
house. So, you know, we would doall of the work, we knew who our
subject was And, you know, at06:00 in the morning, you'd be
stacked up, you know, going upto the door and there was a
(06:32):
point where there was no turningback. You had to rely on your
training, you had to rely onyour expertise, You had to you
don't know is the person asleepin bed or are they laying in
wait for you to come through thedoor. But you need to go forward
anyway because, you know, you'reat a point where you can't turn
back.
So that's what I talk about whenI do public speaking, you know,
(06:53):
talking about making thatbreakthrough success that going
out and doing an arrest warrant,you can be an entrepreneur doing
the same thing or a CEO or or amid level manager. It's just a
matter of not letting that fearhold you back by pushing forward
anyway. And that's what yourmaverick move is.
Cathy (07:12):
That's such a good message.
Merry (07:14):
Weren't you it is a great message, but weren't you nervous
or scared every time you stoodat someone's door not knowing if
they were standing there with agun?
Gina L. Osborn (07:24):
So, yeah. I mean, it definitely had you you
think about a lot of differentthings before, you know, before
you walk up the night before.However, you know, we're
trained, that's what we learnedat Quantico, we've done it many
many times before. There havebeen times where agents were
shot and killed. In fact, therewas an incident where two,
(07:45):
agents who were, going to do asearch warrant on a child
predator and he wound upshooting them and they both
died.
So it can happen, but again, youknow, you're trained, you're
with your people, you'recompletely briefed on what's
going on and what you're doingand you've done a lot of
homework ahead of time. Sothat's what gives you the
(08:05):
confidence to move forward.
Cathy (08:07):
Yeah. And FBI came before working at the LA Metro then.
Right?
Gina L. Osborn (08:13):
Correct. Mhmm. Yeah. I was with the FBI for
twenty two years.
Cathy (08:16):
Each thing kind of leads to the next thing. Right?
Gina L. Osborn (08:20):
Correct.
Cathy (08:21):
Yes. You would just hear about an opportunity or how do
you decide to make such a bigmove leaving the FBI like that?
Gina L. Osborn (08:30):
Well, I retired and so you get to a point where
you're eligible to retire and Ireally wanted to do something
creative. And so, I actuallyback then I had a true crime
true crime podcast and again, Idid public speaking. I've always
wanted to be a writer. In fact,when I was 16 years old, I was
(08:52):
fascinated with the show MASHand I loved Alan Alda. And, so I
would go and I would buy someflowers and I would take them to
twentieth Century Fox and tellthe gate guard that I had
flowers for Alan Alda and hewould let me on to the set.
Okay? Now, don't do that now,ladies and gentlemen, because
that's called stalking. Wedidn't have that word back then.
(09:12):
But again, I I always wanted tocreate, you know, be a creator
of television. I'm always lovingtelling stories.
And so that's something that Iwanted to do, but then, someone
had called me and asked me if Iwas interested in the LA Metro
job and I said that I wasn't.And then a few months later,
they called me back and said,hey, can you just speak with the
(09:33):
CEO? And I said, okay, I'llspeak with the CEO. And she told
me that the bus operators wereafraid to come to work. And that
just tugged on my heart.
And, it was a fascinatingexperience because I don't think
that there, you know, I I callit the FBI a calling, but
working there at LA Metro wasreally a calling for me as well
(09:54):
because it was an opportunityfor me to serve not only the
riders, but the frontlineemployees and make a system safe
for them to go to work everyday. So it was a really
meaningful position.
Merry (10:07):
And you made a big difference because it's a lot
safer now.
Gina L. Osborn (10:11):
Yeah. And and yeah. In 2023, my team and I
were able to decrease violentcrime by 35%. So
Merry (10:18):
That's a lot.
Gina L. Osborn (10:19):
We we were able to do a lot of great things
while I was there.
Cathy (10:22):
Wow. I always love hearing about everybody's steps
in their life, what the thechallenges they took. And tell
us a little bit about theimportance of female leadership
in the workplace and what stepswomen can take to stand out in a
male dominated workspace likethe FBI must have been very male
dominated. Right?
Gina L. Osborn (10:41):
Yeah. When I went into well, I went I went
into the army, I think fewerthan 10% of the soldiers were
women and and that was in 1987.So I'm gonna date myself a
little bit. And then when I wentinto the FBI, about 14% of the
agents were women. And so andeven when I left twenty two
years later, only it only got upto about 19 or 20%.
(11:02):
So it really didn't rise thatsignificantly. But what I tell
the young women who are comingbehind me is you really have to
lead authentically. You have tobe an authentic leader. You
can't take anybody else'sleadership style and say, okay,
this is how I'm going to lead.Yeah.
And a lot of times, you know, weif someone asks you what is your
(11:24):
superpower? You think, okay,well, I don't have a superpower,
you know, I may be really reallygood at communications or maybe
I'm really good at problemsolving but everybody's good at
communication. So I think wesometimes discount our
superpowers and we don't reallygive ourselves credit. But what
I've learned when I'm really badat, I'm not a patient person no
(11:44):
matter how much effort that I'mgonna put in to becoming patient
is not really going to make adent. But if I spent more time
working on my superpowers, myproblem solving skills and my
communication skills, that'sgonna make me a much better
leader.
So I always tell people tofigure out
Cathy (12:03):
what your
Gina L. Osborn (12:03):
superpowers are and improve on those because
that's gonna be a lot better andeasier to make yourself the best
than it is to try and besomething that you're not.
Cathy (12:12):
You find that men in the workplace sometimes respond to
that when you do that?
Gina L. Osborn (12:17):
Well, I think it got to a point it's it's funny
because my mother, back in theseventies, became a single mom
of two young girls. My dad leftwhen I was probably like six or
seven years old. And she had to,you know, take care of these two
little girls. And she had been ahairdresser before she got
(12:40):
married to my dad. And shedecided she's gonna go into real
estate.
And when you think of somethinglike that, you know, I mean,
what a risk that was for herbecause here she's going into a
commission only field. Mhmm.And, she worked so hard in the
first year. She was sellingthese houses for like $35,000 a
piece and she made it into themillion dollar club her first
(13:00):
year.
Merry (13:00):
Wow. That's quite impressive. Woah.
Gina L. Osborn (13:03):
Yes. Yes. And so that was my role model and I
remember in basic training, Igot pulled out of bed in the
middle of the night to go andpaint the first sergeant's
office. And one of the women whowas with me painting, she
started talking about this glassceiling and I had never heard of
a glass ceiling. That wasn'tpart of my culture where I came
(13:28):
from.
So I think I spent a lot of mycareer not buying into, okay,
well, I'm a woman so I have toact this way or I have to do
something this way or I have toappease, you know, different
egos or anything like that. So Ithink if you don't allow that
into your universe and you justdo it the way you wanna do it,
(13:49):
you're gonna be a lot moresuccessful at it than having to
worry about what other peopleare going to think.
Merry (13:55):
Mhmm. Well, was actually I was actually going to ask you
about the maverick moves orcertain power plays that men and
women should draw on to succeedin life and business. You sort
of answered it, but I thinkthere's has to be more. And
also, how your work as acounterterrorism expert applies
(14:17):
to all of that.
Gina L. Osborn (14:18):
Gosh. Yeah. That's I'm not sure how to
answer that question. You know?I think I've always been someone
who I mean, I I have a lot ofvision and I have big ideas and
I'm willing to risk certainthings in order to see if a big
(14:39):
payoff is going to come.
So, you know, I don't I and Ithink I get that from my mom or
my dad. I'm not sure which, but,know, that whole maverick move
thing again is, you know, we cantalk ourselves out of anything.
But if you don't listen to thatnegative talk and if you just
push through, you'd be surprisedat what you can accomplish.
Merry (15:02):
Well, and I guess you had to do that every time you were
sent out in as an agent in thefield.
Gina L. Osborn (15:09):
Yeah. And in the in the beginning, you know,
because you don't really knowwhat you're doing. My very first
case was Thai girls beingbrought into The United States
and forced into prostitution. Soit was an involuntary servitude
case. Mhmm.
And I was reading the case fileand there was an article where a
detective from the WestminsterPolice Department and that's in
(15:30):
the little Saigon district of,Orange County, California. He
had just rescued two of theseThai girls. So I'm figuring this
is the guy. So long story, heand I start working together and
I was the only female with a gunin that task force of, know, all
of these men. And it was sofunny because I remember going
(15:53):
in there and I kept thinking,you know, these guys don't like
me.
And so one time I told Tommy,I'm like, I don't think these
guys like me. And he goes, no,no, no. They like you. They just
don't like the FBI. And it waslike a whole thing that I didn't
even think of that local lawenforcement didn't like the FBI,
so they were treating me in acertain way.
Right? So again, it's thatthought process that, you know,
(16:14):
we can hold ourselves backreally, really easily, but do
you we have to kinda see thebigger picture in order to be
able to move forward.
Cathy (16:21):
And you have that female thing going on. So you're
thinking, they must not like mebecause I'm female. And yet, it
was really your organizationthey couldn't stand. They didn't
want people stepping on theirtoes.
Merry (16:33):
Exactly.
Cathy (16:33):
This sounds stupid kind of to say this, but I've watched
all these shows on TV, and thatwas happens all the time. You
know, the FBI shows up, and thenthe the NYPD on law and order
hates it. Like, why is the FBIhere? They're still taking our
case. This is our case.
Yes. So I think a lot of peoplerelate to this because we
(16:53):
understand it on a verysimplistic level with the
television that we watch. Tellus more about your experiences
in fighting crime and cyberterrorism in Little Saigon and
maybe some other places.
Gina L. Osborn (17:08):
Yeah. So so we worked everything from loan
sharking to, you know, theinvoluntary servitude. Back
then, the Microsoft CDs werebeing, counterfeited and there
was a multimillion dollaroperation that we wound up
taking down, on that, murder forhire cases. So there was a lot
(17:28):
of violent crime going on backthen and it was an interesting
time in Little Saigon because alot of the criminals were
targeting their own communitybecause they knew that there was
a distrust by the Vietnamesecommunity for law enforcement.
So it was really an interestingtime and having, you know, being
a big blonde walking aroundLittle Saigon, you know, the
(17:49):
criminals knew who I wasautomatically.
Merry (17:51):
You stood out.
Gina L. Osborn (17:53):
Exactly. And so, so yeah. So that was a really
interesting time. And then nineeleven happened and pretty much
everybody in the FBI was workingterrorism after that. And the
day before nine eleven,terrorism was not a priority for
the FBI.
But then nine eleven happens, itbecomes a priority. And that's
when I wound up promoting and Ibecame the, counter terrorism
(18:15):
program coordinator for the LosAngeles field office. And, we I
think within probably a year anda half period, we stood up about
15 squads to workcounterterrorism and really
address the threat, in the LosAngeles territory.
Merry (18:31):
Mhmm. What about other places besides Little Saigon?
Talk about some of the other,what do you call them? Events
that you worked on?
Gina L. Osborn (18:41):
Yeah. So So in order for us to promote to the
executive level in the FBI, wehave to go back to headquarters
for for about eighteen months.And I wound up going on to the
inspection staff and that'swhere the FBI will come and
inspect itself every threeyears, all the different field
offices get inspected and so Iwas a team leader on that staff
(19:05):
and they were looking forsomeone to inspect the cyber
program in Chicago. Well, noneof the team leaders had any
technical expertise or cyberexpertise whatsoever. I had been
married to a cyber geek at onetime and so I figure, okay, at
least I speak the language.
And so I volunteered and, woundup becoming the subject matter
(19:27):
expert even though I couldbarely turn on a computer. At
least I knew what the prioritieswere and all of those things. So
about a year later, the LosAngeles office created the first
assistant special agent incharge position for cyber and
computer forensics and I woundup getting that job. And when I
talk about leadingauthentically, you know, I had
(19:48):
learned from my mentors, my malementors that leading from the
front is the only way to go. Butwhen I got to Los Angeles to
work with all these cybergeniuses, I was leading from the
front, but then I would lookaround and nobody was following
me because I didn't have thosetech skills.
So that's really when I had tofigure out, okay, you know, what
(20:08):
are my strengths? And like Isaid, communication, problem
solving. I had just come fromheadquarters so I knew where all
the money trees were so I canbuy my people equipment. And so,
I wound up in that position foreleven years. And I think, you
know, there are a lot offavorite things that we did,
but, I was in charge of crimesagainst children investigations
for about seven years.
(20:30):
And so When did that go on? Sothere were a lot of online
predators and so there were alot of undercover cases that
were going on to identify peoplewho were who were targeting
children. And I remember onecase, there was a gentleman in
Arizona and I think one of myundercover agents had maybe a
(20:52):
couple of chats with him andmaybe a text and the next thing
you know, he drove all the wayto Los Angeles just to get
arrested for the FBI to have sexwith a child. So, so yeah. So
when we talk about, heroes,those agents who were working
those cases and had to look atthose photos of those crime
scenes with those children, myhats off.
(21:14):
I have a tremendous amount ofrespect for those folks.
Merry (21:17):
Oh. Oh. Oh. It takes a moment to pause on that one. Oh.
Cathy (21:24):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Merry (21:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, talking about older people now, there's
so much fraud and scamming goingon today that targets older
people. Can you tell our boomeraudience, what types of fraud
should they be looking out forand and about the maverick moves
they can take to prevent andprotect that and protect
(21:48):
themselves against scammers.Yes.
Gina L. Osborn (21:51):
And that is a multibillion dollar problem and
it's heartbreaking. So I know weall have heard about the, you
know, the these folks indifferent countries who are
reaching out to women and men,you know, pretending that
they're an engineer working ona, you know, an oil rig in a
(22:14):
different country and, you know,they're looking to have a
relationship and all of that.And you really have to make sure
that the people that you'respeaking to online, the people
that you're chatting with arewho they say they are.
Merry (22:28):
Do you find that out? You know, they they can use AI. They
can create driver's licenses.They can create passports. How
do you know?
Gina L. Osborn (22:37):
So a lot of times, you know, if they say
that they're, you know, JohnJones from somewhere in Indiana
and they're working on this oilrig somewhere off the coast of
who knows where, then, you know,that person should have some
sort of online presence thatsays who they are, where they
live, you know, you have to be areally good investigator because
(22:59):
the minute somebody, and this isa big red flag for everybody,
they're gonna come up with a lotof reasons on why it is that you
should send them money. And ifanybody is asking you to send
them money, that is a problem.And you see it on Doctor. Phil
and all of the other shows wherethese poor women who are so in
(23:23):
love because these scammers aregoing on chat GBT coming up with
these beautiful poetic thingsthat they wanna tell you and
make you feel like you are themost beautiful person in the
world, but that's all part ofit. You know, when they want you
to send them, gift cards, whenthey want you to share your bank
(23:43):
account information.
Merry (23:44):
Oh, yeah.
Gina L. Osborn (23:45):
Never if if somebody wants to give you a
million dollars, but all youhave to do is give them $3,000
to open up some sort of bankaccount and pay an attorney or
this, that, or the other, that'swhere we have a lot of elderly
people and a lot of youngerpeople, you know, falling for
that.
Merry (24:01):
Yeah. Or get rich quick schemes.
Gina L. Osborn (24:04):
Exactly. So if it seems too good to be true, it
is too good to be true. And ifyou meet somebody that you
really really like, you know,FaceTime them and and get them
on video to see what they looklike. If they have an accent,
but they're claiming thatthey're American, that's that's
a clue too. So I think we allkinda know that there is
(24:27):
something not right, butsometimes it's easier to stay in
the situation because it makesus feel good, but we just have
to be really careful.
But the number one thing, do notsend money to anybody that
you've never met or you don'tknow.
Merry (24:40):
I got a good one today on my cell phone. I got a text, and
it said something like, you havean outstanding traffic ticket,
and we're going to press chargesagainst you. And I'm looking at
it. I thought, I don't have atraffic ticket. It had on the on
the text a 63, area code,wherever that is in the word
(25:01):
world.
So I I went over to the autoclub, and I thought, where is
this? I know it's fraud, but thelady there said, yeah. A lot of
people have been coming in andasking about this. And she said,
that's in The Philippines. Ithought, oh, interesting.
How did they get my cell phoneinformation? So Yeah. You know?
Yep. And what Yeah.
Gina L. Osborn (25:22):
But what I usually do that if I get an
email say it's and you knowwhat? Almost gets me and gosh,
I'm telling my secret here. Forwhatever reason, packages.
Right? UPS.
And you think that UPS islegitimate. We've all heard of
UPS. But if you go to the emailaddress on the email that's sent
to you, don't click on anythingelse. But if you click on the
(25:44):
email address to see what thefull email address is, If it's
from UPS, it's not gonna say,you know,
somethingsomething@Gmail.com. Sothat's a way for people to kinda
look and see, you know, upfront.
Okay. Is this legitimate? Is itnot legitimate? If, you know, if
if you still think it'slegitimate, don't click on any
of the links, you know, make aphone call and say, hey. Is this
(26:06):
it?
But they'll put a phone numberon there too. And then when you
call into this call center,that's where you're going to
have the opportunity to speak toa scammer who's gonna try and
tell you a story. So I ignore99.9% of the emails that just
don't seem right because if theydon't seem right, just ignore it
and believe me, if you're gonnaget arrested, someone else is
(26:28):
gonna contact you and give yousome information.
Merry (26:31):
You know, lately, I've heard of another one too, huge
gold scams going on around theworld that's a multibillion
dollar, industry and diamondscams. I mean Mhmm. How do you
outsmart these guys?
Gina L. Osborn (26:44):
Yeah. You just have to ignore Yeah. You just
have to ignore it because thesepeople are probably sitting in a
warehouse. There's a whole bunchof them. This is what they do
eight to ten hours a day andthat's their job.
So you just have to really justbe mindful that, you know, that
to think, okay. This is a scam.Okay. And then prove that it's
(27:05):
not before you do anything.
Cathy (27:07):
Mhmm. Yeah. And then there's
Merry (27:10):
What do you FBI people do though? Do you play along with
them at all? How do you catchthem?
Gina L. Osborn (27:16):
So so there if if you are if you've been
scammed, there's ic3.gov, andthat's where you can go online
and you can report it to the FBIor you can call your local,
field office, but it's gonna bea lot easier just to go to
ic3.gov.
Merry (27:34):
That's icapitali,capitalc?
Gina L. Osborn (27:37):
Yep. Iasinindia,casincharlie,3.gov.
And that's where you can reportit. But, unfortunately, in order
for the United States Attorney'sOffice to take a case, there's
gotta be a huge loss. So if youdon't have a loss or you have a
maybe a $10,000 loss or a$50,000 loss, it may not get
(27:58):
investigated.
So that's why we need to preventthese things from happening in
advance by, being suspicious andmaking sure that before you send
any money or before you interactwith people, you know that
that's exactly who it is.
Merry (28:15):
Good advice. Thank you.
Cathy (28:17):
Very difficult to do that. And, you know, people just
need to be on guard and realizenot to reply to texts that come
on your phone because somebodygot your number.
Gina L. Osborn (28:27):
No. That's why I'm here.
Cathy (28:28):
It's hard.
Merry (28:29):
There's that old one where I got a call from someone
saying, your grand oh, I'm yourgrands granddaughter. I'm hell
I'm stuck in a country. Pleasehelp me. I have no money. And I
thought, I don't have agranddaughter.
But I've listened and, you know,I thought that was pretty
interesting. That's a real oldone.
Gina L. Osborn (28:48):
Oh, yeah. And it's and it's still going on. In
fact, something that's new newsthat I'm getting is that people
are pretending like they'retexting someone else and then
I'll say wrong number and thenthey'll try and start a
conversation with me. So, youknow, it that they're that's
what they're trying to do.They're just trying to find
somebody that they can befriends with and then the next
thing you know, they're gonnaask for money because that's,
(29:10):
you know, that's how they getpaid on their job.
Merry (29:12):
They're very clever.
Cathy (29:14):
And these guys that work in these factory warehouse,
whatever they're using all daylong, they maybe only get one
bite all day. Right?
Merry (29:23):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Cathy (29:24):
Because they I know when I've accidentally picked up a
number. I don't answer numbersif I don't know what they are.
And thank you to iPhone, theynow say spam risk on them, and I
never pick them up. But once ina while, I'm expecting an
appointment to call, and I don'tknow what their number is, so I
pick it up. Always the person onthe other end is so shocked you
(29:45):
picked up.
They don't they go, and thenthey don't answer you right
away. They don't they don't evensay I I picked up one the other
day. The guy was soflabbergasted that I picked up.
I just hung up on him rightaway. Yeah.
But it was really pretty weird.So tell us about this. The LA
Olympics are coming up in 2028.And with your professional
(30:08):
experience, what steps can betaken to keep the public safe?
Where are we with that?
Do you know?
Gina L. Osborn (30:15):
Well, I think, it it's interesting because
mayor Bass says that it's goingto be a car free Olympics, and
that means that you're not gonnabe able to drive your car to any
of the venues and there'sprobably over like 20 or 30
different venues in in theentire area. Think from Temecula
all the way out to the valley.So there it's a it's a very,
(30:36):
very large area. So myrecommendation and I've written
an article on this, on my linkon LinkedIn is that we really
need to make sure that we havecollaborative interaction with
all of the agencies. And whenyou think about it, you know,
how many different lawenforcement agencies are within
that huge territory that, youknow, the Olympics are going to
(30:59):
be at.
So there's got to be a lot ofcollaboration, a lot of
coordination, and everythingabout public transportation
needs to be safe and secure. Andif you think back to the Paris
Olympics on the very first dayon opening games, you know,
there was an incident on thetrain system. But, you know,
(31:20):
it's gonna be different for LAbecause they're gonna be busing
people. So if one thing happensto a bus, it's gonna be hard
pressed to, you know, gettourists and and locals onto the
buses to go to these venues. Sothey really, really need to be
coordinating, and they need tomake security the number one
priority.
Cathy (31:38):
So you think even the far away venues like the Equestrian
are gonna have to have buses?Like, to Temecula and to to the
Santa Racetrack in Pasadena.
Gina L. Osborn (31:51):
All all I know is yeah. All I know is what the
mayor is saying that it's gonnabe a car free Olympics. And so
how that's gonna work exactly,but I do know that that Metro is
going to be having probablytwice as many buses as they
normally do in any given day,which I think is close to 2,500
a day to, come in here to beable to get people to where they
(32:13):
need to go. So it's gonna be ahuge logistical operation that
they're gonna need to put a lotof effort into.
Cathy (32:21):
Well, they have to train a lot more bus drivers. Oh,
yeah. Who's gonna drive thosebuses? Buses aren't easy. I had
a brother driving a bus and it'snot easy to learn how.
Gina L. Osborn (32:32):
It's not I drove a bus
Cathy (32:33):
both once.
Gina L. Osborn (32:35):
I was in the bus bus rodeo that they had at LA
Metro. So one year I had, I gotto drive the bus and it's it's
hard because it's a longvehicle. It is. Yeah.
Cathy (32:46):
Yes. What he told me was when you're doing your training,
you have these big mirrors onthe side. When you pull up to
the bus stop, like, some of thebus stops have a station to sit
in, if you hit the mirror onthat, you're immediately fired
before you even start working.That's during the training. Wow.
Hit it during the training,you're out.
Merry (33:07):
Oh. Yeah.
Cathy (33:08):
So you really have to be good with your depth perception,
and it's not like 3,000 morebuses can start working, right,
tomorrow.
Gina L. Osborn (33:17):
Yeah. They're gonna have to coordinate it.
That's for sure. But I love busoperators. They're they're one
of my favorite groups of peoplebecause they are the captains of
their ship.
So if you want to see whatleadership is all about, get on
a bus with an experienced busdriver, and you'll see how they
command. Their their commandpresence takes over.
Cathy (33:36):
My brother loved it.
Merry (33:39):
He loved anything the public themselves, people,
individuals can do to protectthemselves at all?
Gina L. Osborn (33:46):
Well, again, if you see something unusual, you
need to say something and reportit right away. And, you know,
being part of safety andsecurity for the second largest
transportation, you know, agencyin the country that I mean, it
is everybody's responsibility.Safety and security is everybody
responsibility, not just thesafety and security people. So
(34:09):
everybody needs to to put theirphones down and be aware of of
their surroundings, and that'show they're gonna stay safe.
Merry (34:17):
So tell us a little bit more about your podcast, Making
Maverick Moves, and also whatnew ventures are you working on
today?
Gina L. Osborn (34:28):
Gosh. Well, my first episode after the rebrand,
in fact, my very good friendintroduced me to the LA City
fire chief last year and I woundup interviewing her, think it
was either in November orDecember before the fires. And
so I interview her, I'm gettingready for my launch and then the
(34:52):
fires happen and she goes ontelevision and she spoke her
truth to power. And so two daysbefore I launched that episode,
she was fired from her job. So Ithink she kind of epitomizes the
the people that I want toshowcase on my show are the
people who do, you know, theythey know what the right thing
(35:16):
is.
When I spoke to her in Novemberor December whenever it was, you
know, she talked about I askedher what tell me about a
maverick move that you've madeand she told me, Gina, I'm I'm
making a maverick move right nowbecause I don't have the
resources to do my job. Mypeople don't have the equipment
to do their jobs. And so shetold me well before the fires
(35:37):
that that was an issue that shewas fighting at that time. So
that really showed, you know,that level of of grit and that
level of passion and commitmentand dedication to the people in
our community. So she was she'sone of my guests.
I've had coaches, experts, otherpeople I just had. We just
(36:02):
recorded this week mother, Icall her the maverick mom whose
son was being bullied and shewound up writing an open letter
on her social media to all ofthe parents of the kids who were
bullying her son to talk aboutwhat her experience was. And it
was it wound up being abeautiful story because a MMA
boxing coach, she had a studioin her town and reached out to
(36:26):
her and gave her son freelessons, free boxing lessons.
And so, you know, when you thinkabout the pain that she was
going through to watch her songo through that, you know, and
then for her to take a stand.So, so I'm I'm showing maverick
moves in a in a variety ofdifferent lights and so that to
me, really, you know, makes mefeel like I'm serving, our
(36:48):
community to inspire people toto do great things.
And I'm also a pup oh, go ahead.
Cathy (36:53):
Yeah. I was just gonna say What's so interesting to me
too is how early on you got intopodcasting. You said you had a
true crime one, and then you hadthe other one.
Gina L. Osborn (37:03):
Yeah. Like in 2020, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So
and then yeah.
So not not choose. Before Ithink I mean, it's really,
really saturated now, but, yeah,I did it back in 2020.
Cathy (37:15):
We started in 2020 also.
Gina L. Osborn (37:17):
Oh, good. Okay. So you are new too.
Merry (37:19):
And I'm sorry. Stepped on something. Pandemic. Mhmm.
Cathy (37:23):
Yeah. I stepped on something you were about to say.
Gina L. Osborn (37:25):
Yes. I'm I'm also a public speaker and a
keynote speaker in addition tobeing a TEDx speaker. And I talk
about everything from rising tothe top in male dominated
fields, leading through chaos,crisis, and change and making
your maverick move. So that'ssomething that I really enjoy
doing to inspire people.
Merry (37:46):
Just one question about chaos and dealing with that. Any
any advice for us dealing withchaos in our lives or in the
world?
Gina L. Osborn (37:55):
Yes. The number one thing you need to do is
eliminate what you toleratebecause you are what you
tolerate. So, that's how chaoscomes in. If you have so many
things you're tolerating, badbehavior from a from a a family
member or even just yourneighbor wanting to talk to you
(38:16):
right on your way to work andyou're making you late every day
to work, you know, all of thelittle things add up and that
takes away the space that wehave in order and the energy to
go out and have thatbreakthrough success. So I tell
the people that, I work with,write down all of the things
that could be the boxes in yourgarage that are driving you nuts
(38:36):
every time you get into thegarage to the leaky faucet
that's been leaking for the lastfew weeks.
And imagine how you're gonnafeel when you go drive into your
garage and the boxes are cleanedup. You know, you feel that
extra space to be able to go outand conquer the world. And
create. Exactly. And even, youknow, you you don't have to,
like, address those bigrelationship things that you may
(38:59):
be tolerating right now.
Start with the easy things andstart checking them off the
list, and then you're gonna havemore space and more energy to be
able to address the biggermatters.
Cathy (39:09):
And I was just gonna ask you what you'd like our audience
to have as a takeaway today. Sodo you wanna, like, add to that
a little bit more, a little bitmore advice for us?
Gina L. Osborn (39:19):
Gosh. Let's see. Gosh. With regard to chaos, you
know what? I think one thingthat I learned when I first
started working at LA Metrobecause it was in, 2022, two
years of the pandemic, no fairenforcement, no code of conduct
enforcement.
So it was kind of like a Mad Maxin the Thunderdome scenario
(39:41):
going on on our metro system. Ifyou read the newspaper, you
would see it. And one thing thatI would tell my people because
there were so many priorities,so many things to do, but I told
them, the first thing we need todo is get the water out of the
boat. And they would come to meand they would have all these
grand ideas of how we can paintthe boat, how we can put
(40:02):
accessories on the boat, how wecan do all of these other
things. But when you're dealingwith crisis on a daily basis,
the number one thing you have todo is just get the water out of
the boat.
Exactly. And then once the wateris out of the boat, then you can
fix the holes, then you canpaint it, and then you can go on
and make it into a yacht. But,but, yeah, you have to start
(40:23):
from the beginning or you'rejust gonna be overwhelmed and
you're not gonna be able to dealwith any of it.
Merry (40:27):
I love that. Thank you. That's that's great advice for
me because, I have a lot ofboxes sitting around that are
making me crazy. So
Gina L. Osborn (40:38):
Okay. So this tomorrow is Saturday. This is
what your homework is, MaryElkins. I want you to clean up
those boxes. Do whatever ittakes.
Get your family. Get everybody.Hire the kid down the street.
Come in. Get those boxes cleanedup.
And on Sunday, I want you totext me and tell me how you
feel.
Merry (40:57):
I don't know that I'll get all of them out, but I will
get some. I promise you. Thankyou. Thank you for your
Cathy (41:04):
personal But I love that she wants advice. She ex and I
love that she expects afollow-up from you, Mary. But
I'm gonna take the same advicebecause I'm decluttering like
crazy in order to kinda startfresh and open up the house and
be more open and get the clutterout. So I have that same issue.
Merry (41:24):
Declutter. Good. Thanks a Declutter. Yeah. Thank you,
Gina.
Thank you for the personaladvice, and thank you for I'm
sure our audience thanks you forthis great podcast. Our guest
today in late boomers has beenGina Osborne, former arm former
chief safety and securityofficer at LA Metro, retired FBI
(41:49):
special agent in charge, podcasthost of Making Maverick Moves,
and, of course, former army vetor just army vet. And you can
reach Gina if you need moreadvice at her website, Gina l
Osborn, that's g I n a l o s b or n dot com. Thank you again,
(42:10):
Gina. That's great.
Gina L. Osborn (42:12):
Thank you, ladies.
Cathy (42:12):
This is wonderful. And thank you for listening to our
late boomers podcast, everybody,and subscribing to our late
boomers podcast channel onYouTube where you can see this
beautiful guest we have today.Please go to our new website,
lateboomers.us. That's like lateboomers are us. I love our new
website title.
(42:33):
For info on all our episodes andlinks to everything. Listen in
next week when you'll meetanother exciting guest, talent
agent, Albert Bramonte. You canlisten to Lake Boomers on any
podcast platform, and we doappreciate you so much. Please
follow us on Instagram. Andthanks again, Gino Osborne.
Gina L. Osborn (42:53):
Thank you.
Cathy (43:05):
Thank you for joining us on late boomers, the podcast
that is your guide to creating athird act with style, power, and
impact. Please visit our websiteand get in touch with us at
lateboomers.biz. If you wouldlike to listen to or download
other episodes of late boomers,go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry (43:27):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcast, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third act with yourown style, power, and impact.
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
Cathy (00:14):
Welcome to late boomers, our podcast guide to creating
your third act with style,power, and impact. Hi. I'm Cathy
Worthington.
Merry (00:24):
And I'm Merry Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations with successfulentrepreneurs, entertainers, and
people with vision who aremaking a difference in the
world.
Cathy (00:34):
Everyone has a story, and we'll take you along for the
ride on each interview,recounting the journey our
guests have taken to get wherethey are, inspiring you to
create your own path to success.Let's get started.
Hi. I'm Cathy Worthington welcoming you to the late
(00:55):
boomers podcast. I'm here withmy cohost, Mary Elkins, and
we're going to be talking withGina Osborne, army veteran,
former safe chief safety andsecurity officer at LA Metro,
and retired FBI assistantspecial agent in charge of
fighting cyber terrorism andsafeguarding national security.
Merry (01:15):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Gina is also a TEDx speaker and the
host of Making Maverick Movespodcast. We're looking forward
to talking to her about her workleading the FBI's cybercrime and
counterterrorism operations inLos Angeles and hearing more
about her podcast. Welcome,Gina.
Gina L. Osborn (01:35):
Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.
Merry (01:37):
Great to have you.
Cathy (01:39):
Yes. How do you think your upbringing and your career
and life journey led you towhere you are today?
Gina L. Osborn (01:49):
Gosh. That is a great question. Well, when I was
young, my dream was to be aninternational woman of intrigue.
I think I've read lots and lotsof spy novels and I was
fascinated with the CIA and theFBI and all I knew was I needed
to have a four year degree to dogo into the CIA and I was in my
(02:11):
second year of high school and ayoung man sat next I'm sorry, my
second year of college and I wasbroke. I didn't know how I was
gonna make it to a four yearuniversity and a young man sat
next to me and started tellingme about the army's counter
intelligence program and how Icould chase spies across Europe.
And so the next day, I went downto the army recruiters office
(02:34):
and I was wearing a black andwhite polka dotted dress and a
fuchsia hat because it was theeighties. Remember that ladies
back then?
Merry (02:41):
Oh, wow.
Gina L. Osborn (02:42):
And and I signed up. And then eight months later,
I was at Fort Jackson, SouthCarolina at basic training
eating dirt for a living.
Merry (02:52):
Oh, And you were chasing spies across Europe.
Gina L. Osborn (02:57):
You know, six years or six months after that,
I was assigned in to Germany andthen I wound up arriving in
Germany. They sent me to Belgiumbecause I had taken three years
of French in high school. Sowhenever your parents tell you
that you'll never use yourFrench, I am a example, I'm an
example as to how you can And,yeah. And so, I wound up I did
(03:19):
two years in Belgium at thesupreme headquarters Allied
Powers Europe and then Itransferred to Frankfurt,
Germany where I was on aspecialized team that,
investigated the highest profileespionage cases across the
European theater. And, that wasat the end of the cold war and,
yeah.
So I was there when the wallcame down and I'll tell you,
(03:41):
went from a cocktail waitress ata comedy club before I left
California to, like six monthslater, I was, in Europe chasing
spies. So it was really afascinating time.
Cathy (03:51):
Oh. It's interesting how you wanted to do that and then
ended up being able to do it ina very short time frame.
Gina L. Osborn (04:00):
I was very I was very excited and that's why I
always tell people the militaryis the way to go because they
will train you to do your dreamjob. And especially since I
eventually got into cyber andcomputer forensics, the the
military, the air force, thearmy, you know, they have
amazing, they're doing amazingthings in the cyber world and
(04:22):
they'll give you a whole bunchof training for free. Well, you
have to give them a little bitof time. It's not completely for
free. But, yeah, I it it changedmy life.
Being in the military for sixyears changed my life.
Merry (04:33):
I'm really glad to hear that because we really need
training in cyber terrorism,especially now. I wanna get to
all of that, but I I'd love toknow about your podcast, making
maverick moves. Tell us whatinspired you to do that and also
talk about the title. What's thereason for it?
Gina L. Osborn (04:52):
Sure. So, I started out with a podcast a few
years ago and it was called LeadLike a Lady. And when I created
that title, I thought aboutMargaret Thatcher being the iron
lady and so that was kind of theinspiration for that title. And
then, I went, I spent two yearsas the Chief Safety and Security
(05:12):
Officer at LA Metro, wound upbecoming a whistleblower and
that ended last year. And what Ireally learned from that
experience because I'm a bigbeliever that everything happens
for a reason and that we areexactly where we are supposed to
be and you know, there were alot of things that happened
after I was terminated for thevery first time in my life.
(05:34):
And I wound up going on themedia and talking about things,
that needed to change. And onething that came to mind was this
whole maverick move and what itwhat did that mean to me? And
that means when you go andyou're afraid of something and
you do it anyway, that to me isa maverick move. It could be a
(05:55):
huge maverick move, it could bea little maverick move, but
that's the thing. That's theonly way that you're gonna find
breakthrough success is if you,you know, find that threshold
and you move forward anyway.
Merry (06:07):
You hope it's the right maverick move.
Gina L. Osborn (06:10):
That's true. But I think if you have the training
and the experience, you know, II'd liken it to when I was in
the FBI and we would go to do anarrest warrant at somebody's
house. So, you know, we would doall of the work, we knew who our
subject was And, you know, at06:00 in the morning, you'd be
stacked up, you know, going upto the door and there was a
(06:32):
point where there was no turningback. You had to rely on your
training, you had to rely onyour expertise, You had to you
don't know is the person asleepin bed or are they laying in
wait for you to come through thedoor. But you need to go forward
anyway because, you know, you'reat a point where you can't turn
back.
So that's what I talk about whenI do public speaking, you know,
(06:53):
talking about making thatbreakthrough success that going
out and doing an arrest warrant,you can be an entrepreneur doing
the same thing or a CEO or or amid level manager. It's just a
matter of not letting that fearhold you back by pushing forward
anyway. And that's what yourmaverick move is.
Cathy (07:12):
That's such a good message.
Merry (07:14):
Weren't you it is a great message, but weren't you nervous
or scared every time you stoodat someone's door not knowing if
they were standing there with agun?
Gina L. Osborn (07:24):
So, yeah. I mean, it definitely had you you
think about a lot of differentthings before, you know, before
you walk up the night before.However, you know, we're
trained, that's what we learnedat Quantico, we've done it many
many times before. There havebeen times where agents were
shot and killed. In fact, therewas an incident where two,
(07:45):
agents who were, going to do asearch warrant on a child
predator and he wound upshooting them and they both
died.
So it can happen, but again, youknow, you're trained, you're
with your people, you'recompletely briefed on what's
going on and what you're doingand you've done a lot of
homework ahead of time. Sothat's what gives you the
(08:05):
confidence to move forward.
Cathy (08:07):
Yeah. And FBI came before working at the LA Metro then.
Right?
Gina L. Osborn (08:13):
Correct. Mhmm. Yeah. I was with the FBI for
twenty two years.
Cathy (08:16):
Each thing kind of leads to the next thing. Right?
Gina L. Osborn (08:20):
Correct.
Cathy (08:21):
Yes. You would just hear about an opportunity or how do
you decide to make such a bigmove leaving the FBI like that?
Gina L. Osborn (08:30):
Well, I retired and so you get to a point where
you're eligible to retire and Ireally wanted to do something
creative. And so, I actuallyback then I had a true crime
true crime podcast and again, Idid public speaking. I've always
wanted to be a writer. In fact,when I was 16 years old, I was
(08:52):
fascinated with the show MASHand I loved Alan Alda. And, so I
would go and I would buy someflowers and I would take them to
twentieth Century Fox and tellthe gate guard that I had
flowers for Alan Alda and hewould let me on to the set.
Okay? Now, don't do that now,ladies and gentlemen, because
that's called stalking. Wedidn't have that word back then.
(09:12):
But again, I I always wanted tocreate, you know, be a creator
of television. I'm always lovingtelling stories.
And so that's something that Iwanted to do, but then, someone
had called me and asked me if Iwas interested in the LA Metro
job and I said that I wasn't.And then a few months later,
they called me back and said,hey, can you just speak with the
(09:33):
CEO? And I said, okay, I'llspeak with the CEO. And she told
me that the bus operators wereafraid to come to work. And that
just tugged on my heart.
And, it was a fascinatingexperience because I don't think
that there, you know, I I callit the FBI a calling, but
working there at LA Metro wasreally a calling for me as well
(09:54):
because it was an opportunityfor me to serve not only the
riders, but the frontlineemployees and make a system safe
for them to go to work everyday. So it was a really
meaningful position.
Merry (10:07):
And you made a big difference because it's a lot
safer now.
Gina L. Osborn (10:11):
Yeah. And and yeah. In 2023, my team and I
were able to decrease violentcrime by 35%. So
Merry (10:18):
That's a lot.
Gina L. Osborn (10:19):
We we were able to do a lot of great things
while I was there.
Cathy (10:22):
Wow. I always love hearing about everybody's steps
in their life, what the thechallenges they took. And tell
us a little bit about theimportance of female leadership
in the workplace and what stepswomen can take to stand out in a
male dominated workspace likethe FBI must have been very male
dominated. Right?
Gina L. Osborn (10:41):
Yeah. When I went into well, I went I went
into the army, I think fewerthan 10% of the soldiers were
women and and that was in 1987.So I'm gonna date myself a
little bit. And then when I wentinto the FBI, about 14% of the
agents were women. And so andeven when I left twenty two
years later, only it only got upto about 19 or 20%.
(11:02):
So it really didn't rise thatsignificantly. But what I tell
the young women who are comingbehind me is you really have to
lead authentically. You have tobe an authentic leader. You
can't take anybody else'sleadership style and say, okay,
this is how I'm going to lead.Yeah.
And a lot of times, you know, weif someone asks you what is your
(11:24):
superpower? You think, okay,well, I don't have a superpower,
you know, I may be really reallygood at communications or maybe
I'm really good at problemsolving but everybody's good at
communication. So I think wesometimes discount our
superpowers and we don't reallygive ourselves credit. But what
I've learned when I'm really badat, I'm not a patient person no
(11:44):
matter how much effort that I'mgonna put in to becoming patient
is not really going to make adent. But if I spent more time
working on my superpowers, myproblem solving skills and my
communication skills, that'sgonna make me a much better
leader.
So I always tell people tofigure out
Cathy (12:03):
what your
Gina L. Osborn (12:03):
superpowers are and improve on those because
that's gonna be a lot better andeasier to make yourself the best
than it is to try and besomething that you're not.
Cathy (12:12):
You find that men in the workplace sometimes respond to
that when you do that?
Gina L. Osborn (12:17):
Well, I think it got to a point it's it's funny
because my mother, back in theseventies, became a single mom
of two young girls. My dad leftwhen I was probably like six or
seven years old. And she had to,you know, take care of these two
little girls. And she had been ahairdresser before she got
(12:40):
married to my dad. And shedecided she's gonna go into real
estate.
And when you think of somethinglike that, you know, I mean,
what a risk that was for herbecause here she's going into a
commission only field. Mhmm.And, she worked so hard in the
first year. She was sellingthese houses for like $35,000 a
piece and she made it into themillion dollar club her first
(13:00):
year.
Merry (13:00):
Wow. That's quite impressive. Woah.
Gina L. Osborn (13:03):
Yes. Yes. And so that was my role model and I
remember in basic training, Igot pulled out of bed in the
middle of the night to go andpaint the first sergeant's
office. And one of the women whowas with me painting, she
started talking about this glassceiling and I had never heard of
a glass ceiling. That wasn'tpart of my culture where I came
(13:28):
from.
So I think I spent a lot of mycareer not buying into, okay,
well, I'm a woman so I have toact this way or I have to do
something this way or I have toappease, you know, different
egos or anything like that. So Ithink if you don't allow that
into your universe and you justdo it the way you wanna do it,
(13:49):
you're gonna be a lot moresuccessful at it than having to
worry about what other peopleare going to think.
Merry (13:55):
Mhmm. Well, was actually I was actually going to ask you
about the maverick moves orcertain power plays that men and
women should draw on to succeedin life and business. You sort
of answered it, but I thinkthere's has to be more. And
also, how your work as acounterterrorism expert applies
(14:17):
to all of that.
Gina L. Osborn (14:18):
Gosh. Yeah. That's I'm not sure how to
answer that question. You know?I think I've always been someone
who I mean, I I have a lot ofvision and I have big ideas and
I'm willing to risk certainthings in order to see if a big
(14:39):
payoff is going to come.
So, you know, I don't I and Ithink I get that from my mom or
my dad. I'm not sure which, but,know, that whole maverick move
thing again is, you know, we cantalk ourselves out of anything.
But if you don't listen to thatnegative talk and if you just
push through, you'd be surprisedat what you can accomplish.
Merry (15:02):
Well, and I guess you had to do that every time you were
sent out in as an agent in thefield.
Gina L. Osborn (15:09):
Yeah. And in the in the beginning, you know,
because you don't really knowwhat you're doing. My very first
case was Thai girls beingbrought into The United States
and forced into prostitution. Soit was an involuntary servitude
case. Mhmm.
And I was reading the case fileand there was an article where a
detective from the WestminsterPolice Department and that's in
(15:30):
the little Saigon district of,Orange County, California. He
had just rescued two of theseThai girls. So I'm figuring this
is the guy. So long story, heand I start working together and
I was the only female with a gunin that task force of, know, all
of these men. And it was sofunny because I remember going
(15:53):
in there and I kept thinking,you know, these guys don't like
me.
And so one time I told Tommy,I'm like, I don't think these
guys like me. And he goes, no,no, no. They like you. They just
don't like the FBI. And it waslike a whole thing that I didn't
even think of that local lawenforcement didn't like the FBI,
so they were treating me in acertain way.
Right? So again, it's thatthought process that, you know,
(16:14):
we can hold ourselves backreally, really easily, but do
you we have to kinda see thebigger picture in order to be
able to move forward.
Cathy (16:21):
And you have that female thing going on. So you're
thinking, they must not like mebecause I'm female. And yet, it
was really your organizationthey couldn't stand. They didn't
want people stepping on theirtoes.
Merry (16:33):
Exactly.
Cathy (16:33):
This sounds stupid kind of to say this, but I've watched
all these shows on TV, and thatwas happens all the time. You
know, the FBI shows up, and thenthe the NYPD on law and order
hates it. Like, why is the FBIhere? They're still taking our
case. This is our case.
Yes. So I think a lot of peoplerelate to this because we
(16:53):
understand it on a verysimplistic level with the
television that we watch. Tellus more about your experiences
in fighting crime and cyberterrorism in Little Saigon and
maybe some other places.
Gina L. Osborn (17:08):
Yeah. So so we worked everything from loan
sharking to, you know, theinvoluntary servitude. Back
then, the Microsoft CDs werebeing, counterfeited and there
was a multimillion dollaroperation that we wound up
taking down, on that, murder forhire cases. So there was a lot
(17:28):
of violent crime going on backthen and it was an interesting
time in Little Saigon because alot of the criminals were
targeting their own communitybecause they knew that there was
a distrust by the Vietnamesecommunity for law enforcement.
So it was really an interestingtime and having, you know, being
a big blonde walking aroundLittle Saigon, you know, the
(17:49):
criminals knew who I wasautomatically.
Merry (17:51):
You stood out.
Gina L. Osborn (17:53):
Exactly. And so, so yeah. So that was a really
interesting time. And then nineeleven happened and pretty much
everybody in the FBI was workingterrorism after that. And the
day before nine eleven,terrorism was not a priority for
the FBI.
But then nine eleven happens, itbecomes a priority. And that's
when I wound up promoting and Ibecame the, counter terrorism
(18:15):
program coordinator for the LosAngeles field office. And, we I
think within probably a year anda half period, we stood up about
15 squads to workcounterterrorism and really
address the threat, in the LosAngeles territory.
Merry (18:31):
Mhmm. What about other places besides Little Saigon?
Talk about some of the other,what do you call them? Events
that you worked on?
Gina L. Osborn (18:41):
Yeah. So So in order for us to promote to the
executive level in the FBI, wehave to go back to headquarters
for for about eighteen months.And I wound up going on to the
inspection staff and that'swhere the FBI will come and
inspect itself every threeyears, all the different field
offices get inspected and so Iwas a team leader on that staff
(19:05):
and they were looking forsomeone to inspect the cyber
program in Chicago. Well, noneof the team leaders had any
technical expertise or cyberexpertise whatsoever. I had been
married to a cyber geek at onetime and so I figure, okay, at
least I speak the language.
And so I volunteered and, woundup becoming the subject matter
(19:27):
expert even though I couldbarely turn on a computer. At
least I knew what the prioritieswere and all of those things. So
about a year later, the LosAngeles office created the first
assistant special agent incharge position for cyber and
computer forensics and I woundup getting that job. And when I
talk about leadingauthentically, you know, I had
(19:48):
learned from my mentors, my malementors that leading from the
front is the only way to go. Butwhen I got to Los Angeles to
work with all these cybergeniuses, I was leading from the
front, but then I would lookaround and nobody was following
me because I didn't have thosetech skills.
So that's really when I had tofigure out, okay, you know, what
(20:08):
are my strengths? And like Isaid, communication, problem
solving. I had just come fromheadquarters so I knew where all
the money trees were so I canbuy my people equipment. And so,
I wound up in that position foreleven years. And I think, you
know, there are a lot offavorite things that we did,
but, I was in charge of crimesagainst children investigations
for about seven years.
(20:30):
And so When did that go on? Sothere were a lot of online
predators and so there were alot of undercover cases that
were going on to identify peoplewho were who were targeting
children. And I remember onecase, there was a gentleman in
Arizona and I think one of myundercover agents had maybe a
(20:52):
couple of chats with him andmaybe a text and the next thing
you know, he drove all the wayto Los Angeles just to get
arrested for the FBI to have sexwith a child. So, so yeah. So
when we talk about, heroes,those agents who were working
those cases and had to look atthose photos of those crime
scenes with those children, myhats off.
(21:14):
I have a tremendous amount ofrespect for those folks.
Merry (21:17):
Oh. Oh. Oh. It takes a moment to pause on that one. Oh.
Cathy (21:24):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Merry (21:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, talking about older people now, there's
so much fraud and scamming goingon today that targets older
people. Can you tell our boomeraudience, what types of fraud
should they be looking out forand and about the maverick moves
they can take to prevent andprotect that and protect
(21:48):
themselves against scammers.Yes.
Gina L. Osborn (21:51):
And that is a multibillion dollar problem and
it's heartbreaking. So I know weall have heard about the, you
know, the these folks indifferent countries who are
reaching out to women and men,you know, pretending that
they're an engineer working ona, you know, an oil rig in a
(22:14):
different country and, you know,they're looking to have a
relationship and all of that.And you really have to make sure
that the people that you'respeaking to online, the people
that you're chatting with arewho they say they are.
Merry (22:28):
Do you find that out? You know, they they can use AI. They
can create driver's licenses.They can create passports. How
do you know?
Gina L. Osborn (22:37):
So a lot of times, you know, if they say
that they're, you know, JohnJones from somewhere in Indiana
and they're working on this oilrig somewhere off the coast of
who knows where, then, you know,that person should have some
sort of online presence thatsays who they are, where they
live, you know, you have to be areally good investigator because
(22:59):
the minute somebody, and this isa big red flag for everybody,
they're gonna come up with a lotof reasons on why it is that you
should send them money. And ifanybody is asking you to send
them money, that is a problem.And you see it on Doctor. Phil
and all of the other shows wherethese poor women who are so in
(23:23):
love because these scammers aregoing on chat GBT coming up with
these beautiful poetic thingsthat they wanna tell you and
make you feel like you are themost beautiful person in the
world, but that's all part ofit. You know, when they want you
to send them, gift cards, whenthey want you to share your bank
(23:43):
account information.
Merry (23:44):
Oh, yeah.
Gina L. Osborn (23:45):
Never if if somebody wants to give you a
million dollars, but all youhave to do is give them $3,000
to open up some sort of bankaccount and pay an attorney or
this, that, or the other, that'swhere we have a lot of elderly
people and a lot of youngerpeople, you know, falling for
that.
Merry (24:01):
Yeah. Or get rich quick schemes.
Gina L. Osborn (24:04):
Exactly. So if it seems too good to be true, it
is too good to be true. And ifyou meet somebody that you
really really like, you know,FaceTime them and and get them
on video to see what they looklike. If they have an accent,
but they're claiming thatthey're American, that's that's
a clue too. So I think we allkinda know that there is
(24:27):
something not right, butsometimes it's easier to stay in
the situation because it makesus feel good, but we just have
to be really careful.
But the number one thing, do notsend money to anybody that
you've never met or you don'tknow.
Merry (24:40):
I got a good one today on my cell phone. I got a text, and
it said something like, you havean outstanding traffic ticket,
and we're going to press chargesagainst you. And I'm looking at
it. I thought, I don't have atraffic ticket. It had on the on
the text a 63, area code,wherever that is in the word
(25:01):
world.
So I I went over to the autoclub, and I thought, where is
this? I know it's fraud, but thelady there said, yeah. A lot of
people have been coming in andasking about this. And she said,
that's in The Philippines. Ithought, oh, interesting.
How did they get my cell phoneinformation? So Yeah. You know?
Yep. And what Yeah.
Gina L. Osborn (25:22):
But what I usually do that if I get an
email say it's and you knowwhat? Almost gets me and gosh,
I'm telling my secret here. Forwhatever reason, packages.
Right? UPS.
And you think that UPS islegitimate. We've all heard of
UPS. But if you go to the emailaddress on the email that's sent
to you, don't click on anythingelse. But if you click on the
(25:44):
email address to see what thefull email address is, If it's
from UPS, it's not gonna say,you know,
somethingsomething@Gmail.com. Sothat's a way for people to kinda
look and see, you know, upfront.
Okay. Is this legitimate? Is itnot legitimate? If, you know, if
if you still think it'slegitimate, don't click on any
of the links, you know, make aphone call and say, hey. Is this
(26:06):
it?
But they'll put a phone numberon there too. And then when you
call into this call center,that's where you're going to
have the opportunity to speak toa scammer who's gonna try and
tell you a story. So I ignore99.9% of the emails that just
don't seem right because if theydon't seem right, just ignore it
and believe me, if you're gonnaget arrested, someone else is
(26:28):
gonna contact you and give yousome information.
Merry (26:31):
You know, lately, I've heard of another one too, huge
gold scams going on around theworld that's a multibillion
dollar, industry and diamondscams. I mean Mhmm. How do you
outsmart these guys?
Gina L. Osborn (26:44):
Yeah. You just have to ignore Yeah. You just
have to ignore it because thesepeople are probably sitting in a
warehouse. There's a whole bunchof them. This is what they do
eight to ten hours a day andthat's their job.
So you just have to really justbe mindful that, you know, that
to think, okay. This is a scam.Okay. And then prove that it's
(27:05):
not before you do anything.
Cathy (27:07):
Mhmm. Yeah. And then there's
Merry (27:10):
What do you FBI people do though? Do you play along with
them at all? How do you catchthem?
Gina L. Osborn (27:16):
So so there if if you are if you've been
scammed, there's ic3.gov, andthat's where you can go online
and you can report it to the FBIor you can call your local,
field office, but it's gonna bea lot easier just to go to
ic3.gov.
Merry (27:34):
That's icapitali,capitalc?
Gina L. Osborn (27:37):
Yep. Iasinindia,casincharlie,3.gov.
And that's where you can reportit. But, unfortunately, in order
for the United States Attorney'sOffice to take a case, there's
gotta be a huge loss. So if youdon't have a loss or you have a
maybe a $10,000 loss or a$50,000 loss, it may not get
(27:58):
investigated.
So that's why we need to preventthese things from happening in
advance by, being suspicious andmaking sure that before you send
any money or before you interactwith people, you know that
that's exactly who it is.
Merry (28:15):
Good advice. Thank you.
Cathy (28:17):
Very difficult to do that. And, you know, people just
need to be on guard and realizenot to reply to texts that come
on your phone because somebodygot your number.
Gina L. Osborn (28:27):
No. That's why I'm here.
Cathy (28:28):
It's hard.
Merry (28:29):
There's that old one where I got a call from someone
saying, your grand oh, I'm yourgrands granddaughter. I'm hell
I'm stuck in a country. Pleasehelp me. I have no money. And I
thought, I don't have agranddaughter.
But I've listened and, you know,I thought that was pretty
interesting. That's a real oldone.
Gina L. Osborn (28:48):
Oh, yeah. And it's and it's still going on. In
fact, something that's new newsthat I'm getting is that people
are pretending like they'retexting someone else and then
I'll say wrong number and thenthey'll try and start a
conversation with me. So, youknow, it that they're that's
what they're trying to do.They're just trying to find
somebody that they can befriends with and then the next
thing you know, they're gonnaask for money because that's,
(29:10):
you know, that's how they getpaid on their job.
Merry (29:12):
They're very clever.
Cathy (29:14):
And these guys that work in these factory warehouse,
whatever they're using all daylong, they maybe only get one
bite all day. Right?
Merry (29:23):
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Cathy (29:24):
Because they I know when I've accidentally picked up a
number. I don't answer numbersif I don't know what they are.
And thank you to iPhone, theynow say spam risk on them, and I
never pick them up. But once ina while, I'm expecting an
appointment to call, and I don'tknow what their number is, so I
pick it up. Always the person onthe other end is so shocked you
(29:45):
picked up.
They don't they go, and thenthey don't answer you right
away. They don't they don't evensay I I picked up one the other
day. The guy was soflabbergasted that I picked up.
I just hung up on him rightaway. Yeah.
But it was really pretty weird.So tell us about this. The LA
Olympics are coming up in 2028.And with your professional
(30:08):
experience, what steps can betaken to keep the public safe?
Where are we with that?
Do you know?
Gina L. Osborn (30:15):
Well, I think, it it's interesting because
mayor Bass says that it's goingto be a car free Olympics, and
that means that you're not gonnabe able to drive your car to any
of the venues and there'sprobably over like 20 or 30
different venues in in theentire area. Think from Temecula
all the way out to the valley.So there it's a it's a very,
(30:36):
very large area. So myrecommendation and I've written
an article on this, on my linkon LinkedIn is that we really
need to make sure that we havecollaborative interaction with
all of the agencies. And whenyou think about it, you know,
how many different lawenforcement agencies are within
that huge territory that, youknow, the Olympics are going to
(30:59):
be at.
So there's got to be a lot ofcollaboration, a lot of
coordination, and everythingabout public transportation
needs to be safe and secure. Andif you think back to the Paris
Olympics on the very first dayon opening games, you know,
there was an incident on thetrain system. But, you know,
(31:20):
it's gonna be different for LAbecause they're gonna be busing
people. So if one thing happensto a bus, it's gonna be hard
pressed to, you know, gettourists and and locals onto the
buses to go to these venues. Sothey really, really need to be
coordinating, and they need tomake security the number one
priority.
Cathy (31:38):
So you think even the far away venues like the Equestrian
are gonna have to have buses?Like, to Temecula and to to the
Santa Racetrack in Pasadena.
Gina L. Osborn (31:51):
All all I know is yeah. All I know is what the
mayor is saying that it's gonnabe a car free Olympics. And so
how that's gonna work exactly,but I do know that that Metro is
going to be having probablytwice as many buses as they
normally do in any given day,which I think is close to 2,500
a day to, come in here to beable to get people to where they
(32:13):
need to go. So it's gonna be ahuge logistical operation that
they're gonna need to put a lotof effort into.
Cathy (32:21):
Well, they have to train a lot more bus drivers. Oh,
yeah. Who's gonna drive thosebuses? Buses aren't easy. I had
a brother driving a bus and it'snot easy to learn how.
Gina L. Osborn (32:32):
It's not I drove a bus
Cathy (32:33):
both once.
Gina L. Osborn (32:35):
I was in the bus bus rodeo that they had at LA
Metro. So one year I had, I gotto drive the bus and it's it's
hard because it's a longvehicle. It is. Yeah.
Cathy (32:46):
Yes. What he told me was when you're doing your training,
you have these big mirrors onthe side. When you pull up to
the bus stop, like, some of thebus stops have a station to sit
in, if you hit the mirror onthat, you're immediately fired
before you even start working.That's during the training. Wow.
Hit it during the training,you're out.
Merry (33:07):
Oh. Yeah.
Cathy (33:08):
So you really have to be good with your depth perception,
and it's not like 3,000 morebuses can start working, right,
tomorrow.
Gina L. Osborn (33:17):
Yeah. They're gonna have to coordinate it.
That's for sure. But I love busoperators. They're they're one
of my favorite groups of peoplebecause they are the captains of
their ship.
So if you want to see whatleadership is all about, get on
a bus with an experienced busdriver, and you'll see how they
command. Their their commandpresence takes over.
Cathy (33:36):
My brother loved it.
Merry (33:39):
He loved anything the public themselves, people,
individuals can do to protectthemselves at all?
Gina L. Osborn (33:46):
Well, again, if you see something unusual, you
need to say something and reportit right away. And, you know,
being part of safety andsecurity for the second largest
transportation, you know, agencyin the country that I mean, it
is everybody's responsibility.Safety and security is everybody
responsibility, not just thesafety and security people. So
(34:09):
everybody needs to to put theirphones down and be aware of of
their surroundings, and that'show they're gonna stay safe.
Merry (34:17):
So tell us a little bit more about your podcast, Making
Maverick Moves, and also whatnew ventures are you working on
today?
Gina L. Osborn (34:28):
Gosh. Well, my first episode after the rebrand,
in fact, my very good friendintroduced me to the LA City
fire chief last year and I woundup interviewing her, think it
was either in November orDecember before the fires. And
so I interview her, I'm gettingready for my launch and then the
(34:52):
fires happen and she goes ontelevision and she spoke her
truth to power. And so two daysbefore I launched that episode,
she was fired from her job. So Ithink she kind of epitomizes the
the people that I want toshowcase on my show are the
people who do, you know, theythey know what the right thing
(35:16):
is.
When I spoke to her in Novemberor December whenever it was, you
know, she talked about I askedher what tell me about a
maverick move that you've madeand she told me, Gina, I'm I'm
making a maverick move right nowbecause I don't have the
resources to do my job. Mypeople don't have the equipment
to do their jobs. And so shetold me well before the fires
(35:37):
that that was an issue that shewas fighting at that time. So
that really showed, you know,that level of of grit and that
level of passion and commitmentand dedication to the people in
our community. So she was she'sone of my guests.
I've had coaches, experts, otherpeople I just had. We just
(36:02):
recorded this week mother, Icall her the maverick mom whose
son was being bullied and shewound up writing an open letter
on her social media to all ofthe parents of the kids who were
bullying her son to talk aboutwhat her experience was. And it
was it wound up being abeautiful story because a MMA
boxing coach, she had a studioin her town and reached out to
(36:26):
her and gave her son freelessons, free boxing lessons.
And so, you know, when you thinkabout the pain that she was
going through to watch her songo through that, you know, and
then for her to take a stand.So, so I'm I'm showing maverick
moves in a in a variety ofdifferent lights and so that to
me, really, you know, makes mefeel like I'm serving, our
(36:48):
community to inspire people toto do great things.
And I'm also a pup oh, go ahead.
Cathy (36:53):
Yeah. I was just gonna say What's so interesting to me
too is how early on you got intopodcasting. You said you had a
true crime one, and then you hadthe other one.
Gina L. Osborn (37:03):
Yeah. Like in 2020, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So
and then yeah.
So not not choose. Before Ithink I mean, it's really,
really saturated now, but, yeah,I did it back in 2020.
Cathy (37:15):
We started in 2020 also.
Gina L. Osborn (37:17):
Oh, good. Okay. So you are new too.
Merry (37:19):
And I'm sorry. Stepped on something. Pandemic. Mhmm.
Cathy (37:23):
Yeah. I stepped on something you were about to say.
Gina L. Osborn (37:25):
Yes. I'm I'm also a public speaker and a
keynote speaker in addition tobeing a TEDx speaker. And I talk
about everything from rising tothe top in male dominated
fields, leading through chaos,crisis, and change and making
your maverick move. So that'ssomething that I really enjoy
doing to inspire people.
Merry (37:46):
Just one question about chaos and dealing with that. Any
any advice for us dealing withchaos in our lives or in the
world?
Gina L. Osborn (37:55):
Yes. The number one thing you need to do is
eliminate what you toleratebecause you are what you
tolerate. So, that's how chaoscomes in. If you have so many
things you're tolerating, badbehavior from a from a a family
member or even just yourneighbor wanting to talk to you
(38:16):
right on your way to work andyou're making you late every day
to work, you know, all of thelittle things add up and that
takes away the space that wehave in order and the energy to
go out and have thatbreakthrough success. So I tell
the people that, I work with,write down all of the things
that could be the boxes in yourgarage that are driving you nuts
(38:36):
every time you get into thegarage to the leaky faucet
that's been leaking for the lastfew weeks.
And imagine how you're gonnafeel when you go drive into your
garage and the boxes are cleanedup. You know, you feel that
extra space to be able to go outand conquer the world. And
create. Exactly. And even, youknow, you you don't have to,
like, address those bigrelationship things that you may
(38:59):
be tolerating right now.
Start with the easy things andstart checking them off the
list, and then you're gonna havemore space and more energy to be
able to address the biggermatters.
Cathy (39:09):
And I was just gonna ask you what you'd like our audience
to have as a takeaway today. Sodo you wanna, like, add to that
a little bit more, a little bitmore advice for us?
Gina L. Osborn (39:19):
Gosh. Let's see. Gosh. With regard to chaos, you
know what? I think one thingthat I learned when I first
started working at LA Metrobecause it was in, 2022, two
years of the pandemic, no fairenforcement, no code of conduct
enforcement.
So it was kind of like a Mad Maxin the Thunderdome scenario
(39:41):
going on on our metro system. Ifyou read the newspaper, you
would see it. And one thing thatI would tell my people because
there were so many priorities,so many things to do, but I told
them, the first thing we need todo is get the water out of the
boat. And they would come to meand they would have all these
grand ideas of how we can paintthe boat, how we can put
(40:02):
accessories on the boat, how wecan do all of these other
things. But when you're dealingwith crisis on a daily basis,
the number one thing you have todo is just get the water out of
the boat.
Exactly. And then once the wateris out of the boat, then you can
fix the holes, then you canpaint it, and then you can go on
and make it into a yacht. But,but, yeah, you have to start
(40:23):
from the beginning or you'rejust gonna be overwhelmed and
you're not gonna be able to dealwith any of it.
Merry (40:27):
I love that. Thank you. That's that's great advice for
me because, I have a lot ofboxes sitting around that are
making me crazy. So
Gina L. Osborn (40:38):
Okay. So this tomorrow is Saturday. This is
what your homework is, MaryElkins. I want you to clean up
those boxes. Do whatever ittakes.
Get your family. Get everybody.Hire the kid down the street.
Come in. Get those boxes cleanedup.
And on Sunday, I want you totext me and tell me how you
feel.
Merry (40:57):
I don't know that I'll get all of them out, but I will
get some. I promise you. Thankyou. Thank you for your
Cathy (41:04):
personal But I love that she wants advice. She ex and I
love that she expects afollow-up from you, Mary. But
I'm gonna take the same advicebecause I'm decluttering like
crazy in order to kinda startfresh and open up the house and
be more open and get the clutterout. So I have that same issue.
Merry (41:24):
Declutter. Good. Thanks a Declutter. Yeah. Thank you,
Gina.
Thank you for the personaladvice, and thank you for I'm
sure our audience thanks you forthis great podcast. Our guest
today in late boomers has beenGina Osborne, former arm former
chief safety and securityofficer at LA Metro, retired FBI
(41:49):
special agent in charge, podcasthost of Making Maverick Moves,
and, of course, former army vetor just army vet. And you can
reach Gina if you need moreadvice at her website, Gina l
Osborn, that's g I n a l o s b or n dot com. Thank you again,
(42:10):
Gina. That's great.
Gina L. Osborn (42:12):
Thank you, ladies.
Cathy (42:12):
This is wonderful. And thank you for listening to our
late boomers podcast, everybody,and subscribing to our late
boomers podcast channel onYouTube where you can see this
beautiful guest we have today.Please go to our new website,
lateboomers.us. That's like lateboomers are us. I love our new
website title.
(42:33):
For info on all our episodes andlinks to everything. Listen in
next week when you'll meetanother exciting guest, talent
agent, Albert Bramonte. You canlisten to Lake Boomers on any
podcast platform, and we doappreciate you so much. Please
follow us on Instagram. Andthanks again, Gino Osborne.
Gina L. Osborn (42:53):
Thank you.
Cathy (43:05):
Thank you for joining us on late boomers, the podcast
that is your guide to creating athird act with style, power, and
impact. Please visit our websiteand get in touch with us at
lateboomers.biz. If you wouldlike to listen to or download
other episodes of late boomers,go to ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry (43:27):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcast, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third act with yourown style, power, and impact.
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