March 12, 2025 • 48 mins
Are you curious about the emotional rollercoaster of fostering and adopting as an out gay family? Merry Elkins and Cathy Worthington sit down with Lane Igoudin, author of "A Family, Maybe." Lane shares his poignant journey of fostering and adopting multicultural children, diving deep into the complexities faced by LGBTQ families. Hear Lane read the first chapter of his memoir, capturing the heart-stopping moment he and his partner Jonathan welcomed a newborn with a complex background into their lives. Discover why they chose fostering over other options and how it impacted their relationship. Lane candidly discusses the cultural dynamics within their family and the broader social and political challenges surrounding adoption rights. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of love, resilience, and advocacy. Tune in for insights and inspiration!
Lane's Bio
Lane Igoudin, Ph.D., is the author of A Family, Maybe, a life-changing journey through foster adoptions to fatherhood (Ooligan Press, Portland State University, 2024). He has written extensively on adoption, parenting, and other issues for Adoption.com, Forward, Jewish Journal, and Parabola and spoken about his book on NBC’s “Daytime” show, syndicated radio shows, literary and parenting podcasts, as well as live audiences on his 12-stop book tour. A Family, Maybe received endorsements from US Congressman Alan Lowenthal, California Senator Sheila Kuehl, bestselling writers like Janet Fitch and Greta Boris, parenting experts and social work professionals. Lane is professor of English and linguistics at Los Angeles City College.
Connect with Lane
Website: www.laneigoudin.com
Email: laneigoudin@gmail.com
Facebook: www.facebook.com/lane.igoudin/
Instagram: @laneigoudin
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Merry Elkins (00:01):
This is the EWN podcast network.
Cathy Worthington (00:14):
Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide
to creating your third act withstyle, power, and impact. Hi.
I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins (00:24):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations with successfulentrepreneurs, entertainers, and
people with vision who aremaking a difference in the
world.
Cathy Worthington (00:34):
Everyone has a story, and we'll take you
along for the ride on eachinterview, recounting the
journey our guests have taken toget where they are, inspiring
you to create your own path tosuccess. Let's get started.
Hello. I'm Kathy Worthington welcoming you
(00:54):
to our latest episode of lateboomers. Today, our guest will
be covering a topic I think wehave never done before. His name
is Lane Egutin.
Merry Elkins (01:04):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Lane is the author of a
memoir called A Family, Maybe.He tells the story of fostering
and adopting from a perspectiveof what it's like to raise
multicultural children in thefirst generation of out gay
families. He knows about thestruggles that come with
fostering and then adopting, andwe look forward to hearing his
(01:27):
per step his perspective onthis. Welcome, Lane.
Lane Igoudin (01:31):
Thank you for having me here.
Cathy Worthington (01:33):
Great to have you. You're very welcome. We
wanna hear a little bit to setthe tone. You said you had a a a
first chapter of your book thatyou would like to share with us
and set the tone
for the podcast.
Lane Igoudin (01:48):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. My book is called a
a family maybe. That's what itlooks like. And we got our kids
on it when they were more likepre preteens or toddlers.
But, yeah, so I'm going to readthe first chapter from my book.
It's called curbside delivery.Well, she kinda describes what
(02:13):
what was happening. It's it'sthe very beginning of the
chapter, of the book. So I guessI'll just start from the
beginning.
Merry Elkins (02:21):
Yeah, please.
Lane Igoudin (02:22):
It was on a hot early summer afternoon, just
before the breezes would beginblowing inland from the ocean,
that Jonathan shot me anirritated sideways glance. Where
is she? Didn't she say early inthe morning? That was hours ago.
What's taking her so long?
A six foot three athlete withthe face of the Bridgerton lead,
(02:42):
my partner Jonathan was liningup daisy patterned onesies and
burp cloths by the bassinet in ababy room. I had heard him
vacuum in this this room earlierand before that tidying up the
crib and the toys in the greenbedroom upstairs. Patience,
dear, I sighed. Give her a fewmore minutes. She should be on
her way.
Like John, I was trying tocontrol my anxiety by being
(03:04):
useful, yet I couldn't helprushing to the window every time
I heard a car drive by. JackieWillis, our designated Los
Angeles County Social Worker,was neither here nor responding
to my calls. Did the countychange its mind? Did they
release the baby to her mother,Jenna? We had been living with
(03:24):
this uncertainty for months.
Jenna was due around MemorialDay. But with office closures
and Jackie out on medical leave,the baby could have gone to the
wrong home. But that MemorialDay, I received a phone call
from Babushka, my Russianspeaking grandmother. Mazel tov,
she announced. Your Jenna gavebirth today.
(03:45):
Well, how on earth do you knowthat? We've heard nothing from
the county. I just know, shesaid in her raspy, confident
voice. Takstonyvalnois isSamovidish. Don't worry.
You'll see it for yourself. Irelayed her announcement to
John, and he chuckled at my dear84 year old grandma, our closest
ally in the family. I chuckledtoo, but deep down, I felt even
(04:06):
more anxious. What if she wasright? I had no experience
raising a newborn, nor did John.
Zero. We had been trained andcertified, but that was all just
textbook training. We werereally about to become
caretakers of a tiny fragilelife, %, twenty four seven. What
were we getting ourselves into?Three days later, a social
worker called from the hospitalwith the news that the baby had
(04:28):
been born on Memorial Day atnoon, just as Babushka had said,
but she couldn't be releasedyet.
She had sepsis, a potentiallyfatal blood infection, and had
to be put on medication. Otherarrangements had already been
made by Jackie's Department ofChildren and Family Services.
The newborn would not bereleased to her mother. Instead,
(04:50):
she would be detained, that isput in the court's protective
custody and placed with us asher emergency foster home. The
baby would remain with us as herlong term foster parents, while
Jenna would be given anopportunity and resources to
reunify with her child.
Sepsis made it easier for thecounty to carry out its plan.
(05:12):
Jenna recovered quickly and wasdischarged home to continue, as
we were told, with her drugrehab and counseling. Meanwhile,
the baby was improving onantibiotics while the court on
the on the department on thecounty request formally detained
her. But Jenna came back tobreastfeed, and the nurse leaked
the secret. Devastated anddesperate, Jenna refused to
(05:35):
leave, pleading with the staffto let her take her baby home.
On June 6, the phone rang. I'mon my way to the hospital,
Jackie yelled over the freewayin the background. Jenna still
there? Oh, yes. Still there,camped out, refusing to leave.
She knows I'm coming to get thebaby. Poor Jenna. I couldn't
(05:57):
imagine how she would feel orwhat she would do once Jackie
got there. My chest tightened,and it was becoming real for us
too. After all these monthsreally real, our life was going
to split into before and after.
At 04:30, a black SUV pulled upto the curb in front of our
house. Jackie? John ran out thefront door. I followed him out
(06:18):
on the onto the porch into theblindingly bright afternoon.
Jackie didn't hand the babyover, but waited for John to
take her out of the car seatinside her vehicle.
Liability reasons, I assume. InJohn's hands, the baby looked
small like a small, like adelicate light brown doll, her
face not bigger than John'spalm. All she had on was a pink
(06:39):
onesie with the word babyembroidered embroidered in white
across the chest. Oh. Despite myhesitations, a strong affection
washed over me the moment I sawher, barely awake, helpless,
innocent.
And John just melted. Eyes onthe baby, breathlessly, he
carried her into the house.Jackie looked a bit shaken.
(07:02):
Jenna had confronted her in theparking lot yelling, accusing
her of betrayal. Jackie handedme the cooler bag with several
bottles of formula and a threeinch binder with medical
information and placementpapers.
The baby and the bag. No blackbaby blanket. Nothing else.
Merry Elkins (07:19):
Oh.
Lane Igoudin (07:20):
Then she glanced at her watch and said, I gotta
go, guys. Trying to beat therush hour. I thanked her. Jackie
got back into her SUV and left.It was done.
I found John inside in thehallway, standing still with a
baby in his arms, awestruck.Keeping eyes on her, he passed
the infant to me, Then he pickedup his car keys from the dining
(07:42):
room table and headed out. Iknew he would be back in a few
minutes and not alone. In myarms, the baby felt warm and
heavy, an unfamiliar weight. Andshe was whispering whimpering.
She was whimpering. She washungry, I assumed. So I sat down
on the couch, and Kraline, thelittle girl, gave her a feeding
from one of the disposableformula bottles left by Jackie.
(08:05):
While she sucked from the bluebottle nipple, I moved with my
index finger a slick of herslick lock of her hair to the
side of her forehead. What alovely baby.
She had a full head of ravenblack curly hair that receded in
civility fuzz on her foreheadand chin. Bumpy rosacea the
spots dyed her plump cheeks. Hereyes, as dark as John's, had
(08:27):
almost no eyelashes, and thescarlet birthmark smudged her
left eyelid. Her gaze seemedunexpectedly focused and
introspective as if whilelooking at me, she was thinking
of something else. How long willshe be with us?
What will the court what willthe court do with her and her
mother? I wondered. I was stillfeeding the baby when the front
(08:48):
door opened, and in walked Johnwith a toddler holding him by
the index finger, her cheeksrosy after a day of play at her
preschool, the baby's oldersister, Mariana.
Merry Elkins (09:00):
Oh, instant family. Chapter.
Lane Igoudin (09:04):
That's the
Cathy Worthington (09:05):
first chapter. Oh,
Merry Elkins (09:06):
I can't bring these to read more. We are.
Lane Igoudin (09:09):
We've got a newborn, and we got a pre
toddler, a 20 year old, hersister, also with us.
Merry Elkins (09:16):
Woah. Well, that's a handful or two. Mhmm. How how
did you and your partner,Jonathan, decide that fostering
was the way to go? It's hard,isn't it?
Lane Igoudin (09:29):
Especially It was all new.
Merry Elkins (09:31):
Extended the two babies at once.
Lane Igoudin (09:33):
It was all new. It's just the two of us. You
know, I helped to raise myyounger sister who is, who was
eight years younger than I was.And I always wanted to be a
father. That's something I Ialways saw in my future, really.
I I knew I was gay, and I kindof saw myself as a father with
(09:54):
two kids, as a single fatherwith two kids. Well, I ended up
being a married father with twokids. But still, I mean, I
always wanted to be a dad. Andat the time, when we went into
the process, we had multipleoptions open to us. As you know,
we could, we could have gonethrough surrogacy, that was that
(10:14):
was available.
And we could have done thatbecause we were both a
professional couple, you know,with with with income. We could
have gone internationally. Wecould have adopted a child from
from another country. And but wethought why should we do this
when when we, you know, we welive in in in Los Angeles
County. We live in Long Beach,California, which is part of Los
(10:36):
Angeles County.
And at that time and todaystill, Los Angeles has the
largest foster care system inthe country.
Cathy Worthington (10:45):
Really?
Lane Igoudin (10:45):
At at the time yes. Yes. And at that time, in
02/2004, '2 thousand '5, LosAngeles had more than 30,000
kids in this foster system. Andwe thought, why should we go and
travel and and all that whenwhen there's so many kids that
actually need a home rightprobably right down the block
from where we live? So we wentinto the system very sort of,
like, clear eyed.
Let's help the world. Let's openyou know, and then give them a
(11:11):
permanent forever family. And,so that's how we ended up going
into it. I'll be honest, and mybook is very frank and honest,
Jonathan wasn't always on boardwith that. He did not want to
have children at the beginning.
So it took a took a took a whilefor him to get into it. But once
he did, he was a he's been avery, very dedicated father. The
(11:35):
baby that you see us bringing inas a curbside delivery that day
into the house grew up almostliterally in John's chest
because he would be he would beanywhere. You know, he will go
everywhere with her, and she'llbe right here with her ear on
his on his heart. He'll bevacuuming.
He'll be cooking. He'll be, youknow, running the laundry or his
(11:56):
computer, and she'll be righthere. So there was, like, this
very, you know, went straightfrom the hospital into to into
his arms. And yeah, so that'show we started. We went into the
process.
Yeah. We got certified, had ourparents in classes, you know,
had our live scan, all that wewere all fine. You know, our
(12:18):
homestead was all fine. Andthings started to go wrong very
early on. And I decided to startto document this because I had
no idea that things may mightnot work out the way they're
supposed to.
And I thought, okay. Okay. Well,once this whole process is over,
I will share this experiencewith with with other, you know,
(12:39):
prospective parents. It's justfor the people who want to know
what it's like to go through thefoster system and then adopt out
of foster system.
Cathy Worthington (12:45):
In in hindsight, what do you wish you
knew about the adoption processbefore you started it?
Lane Igoudin (12:51):
Well, I wish I'd we'd been a little bit more
prepared for it. You know, Iwish we what what I say is, you
know, I'd I'd tell prospectiveparents that, you know, you
should expect unexpected becausethere are so many, because, you
know, public adoption is a verycomplex process with multiple
parties involved. So you've gotthe birth parents. You've got
(13:12):
the the county, which detain thechildren that the county are,
you know and the children areare in in the custody of of the
county. You've got the judge.
You've got the children'sattorney. And so we've got all
these multiple parties, none ofwhom, except for the birth
parents, would ever actually getto meet the children.
Merry Elkins (13:30):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (13:30):
And they all are making decisions. They're making
deals and all these things. Andso and all of that happens
behind the closed doors of thechildren's court because because
unlike regular courts, you know,if you're not one of the parties
to the case, you have no accessto to the proceedings. So, the
more the further down we wentinto the the the more we with
(13:50):
the the further we got into theprocess, the more we realized
how powerless we are, over thedecision making concerning the
children's the children thatwe're raising, you know, which
we went into the process wantingto adopt the children. So we we
didn't really plan to foster.
We planned to foster to adopt.And what we're told that the
baby at the time was actuallythe older child would go
(14:12):
straight up for adoption. Well,that didn't happen. She
actually, you know, things gotmuch more complicated than that.
And so we ended up in thisprocess where we're very, really
powerless to to do anythingabout the children that we're
that we were were attached to.
They only know us as theirparents. And we're in it week
after week, month after month,and as it happens, year after
(14:33):
year. And Yes. Because a lot of
Cathy Worthington (14:36):
a lot of fostering does not result in
adoption. Right. So you went inexpecting to adopt the foster
children, but that very oftendoesn't happen. And I think it
break breaks the heart ofeveryone involved
Lane Igoudin (14:50):
because Absolutely.
Cathy Worthington (14:51):
You have to give back the child.
Lane Igoudin (14:54):
Absolutely. And the whole idea of being a a
foster adoptive parent parent,there is a dilemma. You know?
There I mean, there's there's atension between you know? To
foster means you you you, youknow, you take care of them, you
get paid, and then you give themup when when the county tells
you you give them up.
Right? Usually, to the to the tothe to the birth family. When
you adopt somebody, you you'retaking a child to raise it as
your own for and and to be theirfamily forever, and you don't
(15:16):
want anybody else involved init.
Merry Elkins (15:17):
Yeah. Well, how did it invent your relationship
with your partner, Jonathan?
Lane Igoudin (15:23):
Well, what's interesting is that, hard and I
would say in some ways traumaticas the experience was, it
brought us closer together.Mhmm. Because it was just the
two of us. You know, we did nothave our extended family
involved, really, you know,John's parents passed away, you
know, and he at the time, hewent to the prosecutor, he was
43. You know, I was a little bityounger.
(15:46):
And, my, you know, my familylives in in in Northern
California. And as you will findout very early on as you as you
as you read my book, my motherrefused to help us. You know? I
have a very sort of complicatedrelationship with my mom. I'm
much closer to my dad and mygrandmother.
So it's just just the two of us.So we had to basically pick up
the slack, you know, wherever itwas. And, and so that's how it's
(16:09):
it was throughout theirchildhood, you know, it was just
the two of us working full timeand then raising two kids. And,
but I would say that we we also,grew kind of a supportive
network of of friends and, Iwould say, primarily moms. Moms
in our neighborhood.
You know? And, you know, I'mI'm, you know, I'm kind of
(16:29):
getting off on a lot of tangentshere. But but, you know, we
yeah. Because there are otherparents with kids of of our
kids' age, and we naturallybonded with them. And, you know,
we were helping each other.
You know? Hey. I'm running late.Can you pick up my kids? You
know?
Hey. You know? I I have this,this, and that. Do you have it
in your house? So so, yeah, itbecame kind of a very sort of
lively network, which continues,honestly, to this day.
(16:50):
You know? We just went out withfabulous. Yeah. To a show with
with with the parents of of ofanother, you know and and most
of them are, you know, juststraight months. It also, I
think, was good because, youknow, I'm asked like, now I'm
giving interviews about ourexperience, and and people
(17:11):
sometimes ask, well, you knowyou know, is it do you really
believe that there should be a,you know, a mom and a dad in in
the household to to have a childthat grows up to be healthy, you
know, and all that?
And, honestly, I don't believethat. I believe it takes a
responsible adult, a responsiblefunctioning adult, whoever that
adult is. I was raised by mygrandparents, more so than my my
(17:33):
my my my my mom and dad, but mybut my I I grew up with my
grandparents. So it takes aresponsible adult. However, to,
you know, to to to do thecaretaking and all the physical,
physiological, all that and andlove and give all that and that
sense of, you know, strength andsafe safety and security.
But, I also believe that a childshould be exposed to the role
(17:57):
models of their gender. So inour case, my sister, at the
time, she was alive. She passedaway later on. But so she was
present in in our kids' lives.You know, we have, you know, met
Shamat dinners.
You know? And so she wouldalways come over. But also these
moms that I mentioned, you know,there are strong women, you
know, running families, andthat's what our daughters grew
(18:19):
up seeing. You know? That'swhat, you know, who you should
be.
You should be a strong woman inthis society knowing you know,
knowing, knowing who you can beand and what you should do. So
so that's that's your owncommunity. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Cathy Worthington (18:34):
How would you say the challenges that you
faced in the early two thousandsdiffer from the ones that
adoptive families might facetoday? And tell us if the
adoption process has changed atall for better or for worse.
Lane Igoudin (18:49):
Well, I wish I could tell you something very,
very positive about it, But Iwould say that the it and it's
it's essentially, the theprocess hasn't changed much.
Mhmm. And the struggles we faceas adoptive parents in a system
which really is designed toreturn the children to their
birth families no matter what,And it's only in the situation
where it's not possible. Youknow, children get onto what's
(19:11):
called the concurrent planning,the on on on the on the parallel
track, which is either adoptionor long term foster care. That
process hasn't really changed.
You know? It's still very muchthe same, you know, and pretty
much every step of the way. Insome ways, I would say it got
even more strict. There's been alot of, I mean, adoptive
(19:33):
families are still I still, viewit as kind of less than and the
unwanted outcome, I should say.And it really breaks my heart
because because that's not how Ibelieve it's the whole thing
should be.
Right. You know, I believe thatfrom the moment the child is is
is is is, removed from theirbirth family for all these
criteria that they have tofulfill in order to do it.
(19:54):
Believe me, the state doesn'twant your children. A state like
California, you know, which isalready overburdened with with,
with tens of thousands ofchildren, does not want any
additional cases and and all thecost and that that it entails.
You know, social workers havefar too many cases on their
desks.
Court children's, children'scourt judges have far too many
(20:15):
cases to handle. They don't wanttheir children. But if they have
to remove the child, I believethat from the get go, there
should be they they're calledconcurrent concurrent planning.
It should be concurrentplanning. They should plan for
the return of the child to thebirth family, but also to to
make sure that the family thatthey're in is is supported and
and respected and given as manyresources as everyone else,
(20:36):
which was not the case with us.
So, unfortunately, it hasn'tchanged much.
Merry Elkins (20:41):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (20:41):
As for us as as gay parents, because we were
like the first generation of ofof of our gay parents out there.
It has changed. We do have,equal rights in in all 50
states. But of course, that canalso be taken away. And we may
end up being exactly what wewere twenty five years ago.
So hopefully, that won't change.
Merry Elkins (21:03):
Knock on wood.
Lane Igoudin (21:05):
Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Yeah. Because
back back then back then,throughout this whole process,
we remained two singleindividuals. Jonathan and I,
even though we'd been togetherfor for a while at that point.
But but still, you know, raisingtwo related children. You know,
we're raising two sisters beingcompletely known to each other
(21:26):
in the in the hands of thefederal government. And if we
were to take these children,even when they we adopted them
jointly, you know, if we were tocross the state line into some
states, our, parental rightscould have been taken away. It
was quite crazy back then. So wewon't go back to that.
(21:46):
But, but I'm hopeful thingsthings will will work out. But
unfortunately, this wholeprocess is hasn't changed much.
No. So I think that's importantfor whoever is considering that
they they know what they'redealing with. It's a system
which has a lot of unknowns anda lot of, ideologies, which made
it the way it is.
So
Merry Elkins (22:05):
Mhmm. Well, on on a different note, you are
Russian Jewish, and yourhusband, Jonathan, is African
American, and your kids are partHispanic and mixed race. So And
Lane Igoudin (22:17):
white. You know? White. The mother is white.
Merry Elkins (22:19):
How many do you have now? I have to ask. Two.
Lane Igoudin (22:22):
Well, we say, well, I have two. Okay. And
Good. So how how do you manageall these cultures
Merry Elkins (22:28):
in one family? It must be quite interesting to
deal with all those cultures inone family. And and also, how
did your Jewish faith andheritage become part of your
nurturing process?
Lane Igoudin (22:41):
You know, this actually preceded, us deciding
to have children. When John andI met, and and he is, African
American, also mixed race, Andmyself, I I am I am Jewish. We
we decided that whatever youbring into the relationship, we
will honor it. And so it neverbothered me that bothered me
(23:03):
that John would put up aChristmas tree or, you know, we
have Christmas presents and for,you know, Easter, you know, the
the, the the Easter icon. Imean, it's perfectly fine.
That's And
Merry Elkins (23:14):
your kids love it.
Lane Igoudin (23:15):
Do it. And they love it. Yeah. They love it.
They would help them put up thethe the ornaments.
You know, we started having, youknow, like, when we moved in
together, we started havingShabbat dinners, and then my
sister would join us. So it wasbefore the kids before the kids.
So sort of it was a naturaltransition. And my my husband,
you know, he hasn't converted toJudaism, but he helped me raise
(23:36):
them Jewish. What I believe in,and, honestly, is that for the
children whose biological rootshave been cut because ours is a
closed adoption, You know, soit's that there is no connection
to the biological family besidesthe biology itself.
So I think it's important forthem not feel that they're,
like, out there sort of floatingand then sort of a vacuum. I
(23:57):
usually use the metaphor of ofour children children being
grafted onto our family trees.
Merry Elkins (24:04):
Oh, so That's fantastic.
Lane Igoudin (24:06):
That they're being yeah. And and and, you know,
John's family, you know, theythey come out from Central
California quite a bit. So so soand and and he is, you know, he
is, he has a very, very, richhistory, you know, African
American culture and historyvery much present in our
household. And so they feellike, okay, we're we're part of
that too. You know?
And then raised Jewish. They'rethat, that's that's the faith
(24:30):
that they grew up with. And Ithink today I don't know if you
guys know about this, butespecially living here in Los
Angeles, we have this kind of akind of a rising sense of, like,
being what what what it means tobe Jewish, like, being, the race
with the sense of being Jewishwomen of color. Because we do
have quite a lot of inter youknow, interracial marriage in my
community and and and peopleconverting from outside of,
(24:53):
outside of the community. So sothey're they're definitely not
alone.
They don't feel they don't feelin any way, so, like, oh, you
know, been different. You know,believe me out here, it's it's
it's it's it's very common. Butthey do have that that
connection to to God and and toto faith and and to to the
tradition, but also to thecommunities where it came from.
(25:14):
We did expose them as much as wecould to to the Hispanic culture
because they are part Latina.You know?
Merry Elkins (25:22):
What did you do?
Lane Igoudin (25:23):
What did we do? Okay. So, the the the the the
preschool that went to hadHispanic staff, and so we asked
them to speak Spanish to them.We we had them enrolled in
summer camps at the Museum ofLatin American Art here. We've
we've got to Dylan, we've got togreat lengths.
I used we used to paint ourfaces for for day of the dead
(25:44):
and march in the procession. Itwas fun. But, ultimately,
they've been exposed to that.We've been to Central to to
Mexico and Central America withthem. At the end of the day, I
would say up until now, I thinkI'm much more excited about it
than they are.
Merry Elkins (25:59):
But but
Lane Igoudin (25:59):
I feel you know? And and I've taken Spanish in
school, and then so so they theythey do know the language. And
then we live in the in theculture where it's it's it's
right it's all right here. Soit's like they've been exposed
to that. Now that they'readults, you know, it's up to
them to decide how how much theywant to be part of it.
I don't see too much interest,to be honest. But but if they
(26:21):
want to connect, I mean, it'swith with with with with those
with those roots, I mean, it'sit's there. It's there for them.
It's available to them, andwe've exposed them. I feel like
my my job as a parent has beendone in terms of exposing them
when they're children, but nowthey're adults to make decision.
Cathy Worthington (26:36):
For sure. And I wanted to ask you a very,
maybe, touchy question.
Merry Elkins (26:40):
But do
Cathy Worthington (26:41):
you do you have new fears now with our new
administration, the stand onLGBTQ rights?
Lane Igoudin (26:50):
I do. I do. I see what happened to the adoption
rights. And I'm I I'm afraid itmight go down the same route
because it takes one SupremeCourt decision to to undo the
2015 Obergefell, court case,which which, allowed, you know,
same sex marriage in all 50states. So I am definitely
(27:12):
worried.
I also see that this newgeneration of the LGBTQ youth
sort of grew up in the years ofof, of, tolerance. And and they
take a lot of things forgranted, which we didn't because
we did not grow up in that sortof environment. We had to fight
Mhmm.
Merry Elkins (27:31):
For our
Lane Igoudin (27:31):
rights. And that part of that actually, is is in
my book too, the sort of, like,coming of age. Because what
happened is our family storyoverlaps with the struggle for
for for same sex marriage andjust for for for equality. And
when we went into we're kinda,like, under the radar. You know,
there there was a few stateswhich would allow gay men to
(27:53):
adopt as as individuals or ascouples, but but a lot of states
wouldn't.
So, like but as as a strugglesort of on, you know, on, you
know, as as a struggle, kind ofcame into the public spotlight,
so did the gay families. And sothat's the the save the children
argument is just
Cathy Worthington (28:12):
what Right.
Lane Igoudin (28:13):
I'm afraid. So so we we were very much part of it,
you know, and I and I do do,describe how we were we were,
you know, yeah. We did a lot ofthings. You know? We're all the
way to the judiciary committeeof the senate to testify about
our family story, to be honest,and trying to overturn.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah.We did a lot.
And I'm I'm afraid we might beback. And, but but I also
(28:36):
believe, honestly, I I've spokenon in some very conservative, I
would say, radio shows and, andsome podcasts where where my
audience would not be what youwould expect expect it to be.
And I felt that it's importantto reach across the aisle.
(28:57):
Because what I found, and I'llbe I'll share with you, what I
found is that the other half ofthe country has has many
concerns, which we would share,for example, about public about
child welfare. And they mightcome from a different place,
they might have differentsolutions.
But the issues are the same inmany ways. So it's it's talking
(29:19):
and trying to to acknowledgethat, okay, we are concerned
about we are concerned aboutshell welfare, we're concerned
about all these 10s of 1000s ofkids that are rotting, I'm
sorry, to use that term infoster care, they shouldn't be
there, They should not be there.If they're they can't go back to
the families, you know, they,you know, they they should be
they expedite their adoption andother other other scenarios
(29:40):
instead of having stuck in thisin this rough force for years.
Okay? So we're concerned aboutso what can where can we find
this common ground to to changethe system?
You know, I think that's, that'sthat's what we should. So I try
not to I tried, I think weshould really try to reach
across and see what is it thatwe can actually connect on. Did
you find where we are. We we'vegot this administration that we
(30:03):
have. Okay.
What can we do about it now?
Merry Elkins (30:05):
Did you find any common ground with any
solutions?
Lane Igoudin (30:09):
I I did, and I found it. I would say, again,
for them coming from where theyare, it's like an an out gay dad
speak speaking about
Merry Elkins (30:18):
Yeah. I mean, true.
Lane Igoudin (30:19):
Family realizing that, listen, you know, when it
comes to caretaking of a child,we're no different than you are,
you know, or a neighbor's nextdoor. You know? You know, I have
you know, it's the samediapering, and it's the same,
you know, PTA, and it's thesame, you know, for for, you
know, trials and tribulationsthat we we go through as
parents.
Merry Elkins (30:38):
Yeah. But are the laws different for two mom
versus two dad families?
Lane Igoudin (30:44):
Well, not anymore. Not anymore because of the
because of the Supreme Courtdecision 2015.
Merry Elkins (30:50):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (30:51):
But, we got married in the state of
California in 02/2008 when whenthe Supreme Court of California
back then legalized same sexmarriage. But five months later,
we were stuck in a in a limbobecause, we had a we had a we
had a we had a we had a we had aproblem with the proposition
that passed, which outlawed samesex marriage again. From 02/2008
(31:12):
from '2 to 2015, we were in thislimbo. We were married in the
state of California, and we weresingle in the eyes of the
federal government, and half thestates which didn't which didn't
recognize same sex marriage. Andthat affected us as a family
that have also affected thestatus of our kids to some
degree.
So, so yeah, so the last tenyears have been good, but we can
(31:34):
go.
Cathy Worthington (31:34):
Well, tell us, how are your kids today? And
how old are they?
Lane Igoudin (31:38):
They're 18 and 20. And they're wonderful young
ladies, now. And so, again, youknow, as a parent, you learn,
like, each stage of parenting asyou go through it. You probably
know about it. And just when yougot, let's say, you're, you
know, the preteens, they're nowteens, just when you kind of
survive the hell of theiradolescence, they're now adult
(32:01):
adult women with boyfriends.
You know? And that was a wholeother reality as to how much you
can influence their decisions.And, so and and so so things
change. So we're learning we'relearning, how to we're now empty
nesting. You know, our youngerdaughter now started college.
So yeah.
Merry Elkins (32:21):
What what is she majoring in? What is she
interested in majoring
Lane Igoudin (32:24):
in management? Environmental science. She wants
yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
She's she's at a UC. So she isan emerging environment,
environmental science. And,yeah, that's, that's her
passion. And we're here tosupport support her, of course,
you know, our oldest daughter ismore like looking for herself.
(32:46):
You know, she tried college.
She, you know, she left college.She might be going back to
college, working a little. Sowe're supporting her. And but we
still get together regularlybecause, the campus where our
younger daughter is is just youknow, she can take the train
into into town. So I would sayevery two, three weeks, she
comes over and stays for theweekend.
And so we all get together andwe FaceTime. And so, you know
(33:09):
yeah. Transalore has to do thisafter, you know
Merry Elkins (33:12):
Yeah. Yeah. It's no different than any other
parent, really, with that. Yeah.Yeah.
It helps
Lane Igoudin (33:17):
to translate who we are and what we are after
twenty years of parenting.
Merry Elkins (33:22):
So talk about the idea, the writing your book, and
talk about the idea of how theidea came about. And, and then
I'm curious how long it took towrite it and complete it.
Lane Igoudin (33:33):
Yeah. Well, like I said, I I wanted to share our
experience with with with justwith with people. Just, you
know, tell them, hey. You know,you see that that huge, you
know, children's court up on thehill, you know, at the at where,
you know, a seven 10 meets 10.And but do you really know
what's going on behind theclosed doors?
You know? Well, let me tell youwhat it's like. You know? Let's
say it's it's it's quite a trip.It's quite a trip.
(33:56):
So I wanted to tell this storyof family building and of, you
know, of our child welfareissues, you know, problems that
we're really, you know, facingas society. And so I kept, like,
putting all these, you know,faxes and brochures and all that
into boxes, court orders. Andand I thought, okay. I'll once
we get through this, I'll sitdown and write a book. Well,
(34:17):
when once we got through this, Icouldn't.
I was so so PTSD about all this.I I couldn't face any of this
for, like, another
Merry Elkins (34:25):
four understand.
Lane Igoudin (34:25):
Four years, another four years. And then I
started I decided, okay, like, Ithink four years later, I
decided that, okay, let let mesee what's in those boxes. So so
I started to write, you know,little bits and bits and pieces
and started sort of stitchingthe narrative together. Took me
eight years, eight years to toput together a draft, and and
(34:47):
then find a publisher. The bookis published by traditional
publisher, which is based atPortland State University.
And, and so when I had a booktour, it started in Portland,
and then we went down to LA. AndI did a bunch of talks here,
Palm Springs and West Hollywood,Los Angeles. And then I spoke
(35:09):
all the way down to took me allthe way down to Mexico City. So
it was mostly West Coast. Yeah.
But now thanks to that's quite atuner. Our story with with with,
with, readers, and listeners towherever they are. So that's
that's a great opportunity.
Cathy Worthington (35:26):
What what would you say are the challenges
of writing a memoir thathighlights social and political
issues like this?
Lane Igoudin (35:34):
Yeah. Well, the challenge, I I would say there
are multiple challenges. One is,how much research do you want to
bring into writing a book likethis without trying to to, pass
it off as a social studies?Because if I were to do that, I
should really interview multipleparties, and it should be more
(35:56):
objective. But I realized thatbut that's not what this really
is.
This is a first personnarrative, what it's like to go
through the process. So first,my book was actually about 50%
larger than what it is now,because of all this research and
all the studies. And then andthen I decided to, you know, let
let me take out most of it. I'mI'm I'm still using some of it.
(36:16):
You know, for example, when I'mtalking about Los Angeles County
foster care, I mean, I do bringstatistics showing that that we
had, you know, over 30,000 kidsin it.
At that time, the system cost,the department, budget was
$1,600,000,000 back twenty yearsago, bringing things showing
(36:37):
that, you know, critical as I amas of of the social workers and
the judges, when I startedlooking into what you know,
their workloads, they're crazy.I mean, like, really? Like, a
judge is supposed to have, like,a 60 cases on her desk. She you
know, they would have up to 600cases to manage. You know?
(36:58):
Anyone that can never get toreally relate to any of these
kids when they have to processthese, you know, massive
caseloads. You know, the socialworkers, you know, what what
they have to deal with and thenthen and the way they change,
you know, the the children'sattorneys, you know, that we we
have one in our case, in ourchildren's cases that work with
them. And then all of a sudden,she's gone. And there's a brand
(37:18):
new person who has no knows notnothing about the case and gets
this file thrown on her desk,you know, the day before the
before very important, you know,court date. You know?
It's it's it's it's an so I so Ihad to bring a little bit to
just to kind of to to to providesome sort of a background, some
sort of a basis for what whatwas going on. I would say
another challenge.
Merry Elkins (37:38):
Bringing AI into it and
Lane Igoudin (37:40):
not Yeah. Really. Write it for me. Well, don't
tell my students that, though. Itell them, if you use the AI,
you know, you'll just get a zeroon my on your essays and
research papers.
You have to do it yourself. Oldschool. Old school. But I would
say another challenge was that,in terms of social, when you
(38:00):
write about a social issue, Ireally I was really curious
about the history of adoption.How did adoption start?
Because adoption is not commonto many cultures in the world.
You know, it's it's I mean, inmany ways, it's very much an
American phenomena.
Merry Elkins (38:15):
Really?
Lane Igoudin (38:15):
You know? Yeah. Yeah. Even in Western Europe,
you you know, it it exists, buton a much smaller scale
proportionate to the size of thepopulation. But still, it's kind
of like it's more on the it'smore on the fringes of the
society as as an institution.
Whereas in America, it's verymuch sort of part of our social
fabric. And so I was curiousabout how it started. And I when
(38:36):
I discovered, to my to mysurprise well, as any, I would
say, liberal social issue beganin, guess where, Massachusetts.
Massachusetts was the firststate to abolish the to abolish
slavery. It was I think it wasone of the first states to
allow, interracial marriage.
It was the first states to havesame sex marriage. It was also
(38:58):
the first state to pass theadoption statutes back in
eighteen fifties, I think,roughly speaking. And what had
happened, it it also set up seta certain precedent for what
adoption law should be, forbetter or for worse. One of
which is that children aretreated as property. I I was
very surprised to discoverchildren in 1850 were very much
(39:21):
treated as a property, I guess,as wives were too, by the way,
not just Yeah.
Slavery in The States. You know,a chattel. Right? We're talking
about the system of chattel.
Cathy Worthington (39:29):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (39:31):
And so the return of the property to their
rightful owners was at thecenter of it, and it sort of,
like, overshadowed everythingelse that might happen to the
child, him or herself. Right?
Merry Elkins (39:40):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (39:40):
So, so there's some very interesting precedents
set by the statute. So I I dotalk a little bit about that. So
you have so as a social issue,there are a lot of ideologies
and beliefs that come intosetting up the system and, which
becomes very inflexible. Youknow? It's it's hard to to
change them, to break them overtime.
Merry Elkins (39:58):
Mhmm. Not once you change them now.
Lane Igoudin (40:01):
So so that was that that was one challenge.
Another challenge, I should say,is that I I changed as a person.
When you write a memoir aboutyourself, you know, ten,
fifteen, twenty years ago well,not twenty. When I wrote it, it
was it was ten, fifteen yearsearlier. I have changed through
the process, and I changed as aperson.
So this this growing distancebetween between Lane who lived
(40:22):
through the through the eventsand Lane Lane who is writing it,
like because I'm like, well, whydid I do that? I wouldn't do
this now. Like, you know,certain things or, like, I
wasn't thinking about it. Butbut also but I I tried to that
that was a big that that wasthat was a major challenge. And
and trying to kind of still saytell the story in the voice of
the person who lived therethrough that, but also kind of
(40:44):
stepping aside a little bit andputting it in perspective.
You know, for example, myunderstanding of the birth
mother who's who really, reallystruggled, really kinda grew
over time. You know, at thattime, I was really concerned
about the the children's future,and I didn't maybe see it as as
much as I did as as once theintensity of it went away. And I
really I feel so I feel sosorry. I feel so much compassion
(41:07):
for her, you know, and for forthe life that she led and for
the life she's probably stillleading. You know, I I really
hope things worked outpersonally.
Right.
Merry Elkins (41:16):
How do you feel about your book now? And, what
kind of feedback have you hadfrom your readers?
Lane Igoudin (41:25):
Well, what's interesting is I'm continuing to
change as a person and as awriter. You know, I write a lot.
I write a lot about aboutparenting. I also write a lot
about spiritual growth and thenfaith and things like that. But
I, you know, mindfulness, all ofthat.
So I'm changing as a person. Butthe book is is is set in, you
(41:46):
know, prints, you know, that thebook is not changing. And now
the book is taken on a on a lifeof its own. Because now I I
mean, like, you know, if youlook up, let's say, of,
adoption, it pops up. Right?
So now it's like it's like partof the canon on adaptive writing
or on on something else. So it'slike, I'm not a, you know, so to
me, it's like, you know, it itit took on a a life of its own.
(42:11):
In terms of response, I wouldsay, well, I've had very
positive response. I haven't hadany negative encounters, but
I've been thankfully, ever sincethe book got released. Oh, good.
Very different types ofresponses. One response is from
a general audience, you know,and which is, oh, that's,
that's, oh, wow, you know, allthese things we didn't know it's
(42:33):
so wow, really, it's really likethis? Yeah. It really is like
that. All that.
But I get a very differentresponse from anyone who has
actually gone through thesystem.
Merry Elkins (42:41):
Oh.
Lane Igoudin (42:42):
Usually, adoptees, people, you know, who have been
adopted out of foster care orwho have been through foster
care or who who have tried toadopt anybody who is familiar
with foster care, in any shapeor form. They have a very
visceral reaction to the book,and they're like, thank you for
(43:03):
selling it exactly how it iswithout trying to to, in any way
sort of to to to romanticize it.Because as a as a lone liberal
or progressive, I want things tobe different. You know? I really
want, you know, to to believethat, oh, if you just give some
resources to to the people, theycan just build themselves up and
(43:24):
become the the the the parents,that they really should be in
the in the first place.
And in some situations, youknow, yes, they can. But in
some, as my book shows, it'simpossible. And it's just, it's
a by doing this, you reallycontinue sort of cascading the
trauma down to the kids, and itcosts a tremendous amount of
(43:44):
money to the to to thetaxpayers. Yes. Really not fair
to to the families that areraising them, like us.
You know? So so that type ofmessage, which may be
uncomfortable to some people,people who who are familiar with
foster care, like, thank you.Thank you. Because that's,
unfortunately, how it is, youknow, that, you know, we often,
(44:07):
we often, like, wish for, youknow, this, like, for some sort
of a pie in the sky solution tothis one. The other, people are
who they are.
Merry Elkins (44:15):
It it sounds to me that you've written a book that
really is important for everyoneinvolved in foster care, every
aspect of it, whether you're asocial worker or the courts or a
future parent. Sounds like abook that everybody should read.
Do you have one solution to helpthe system at all?
Lane Igoudin (44:37):
Well, I do think I do think that the, adoptive
families should be part of thepart of the discussion very,
very much so. Not not somethingthat is like, okay, it happens
if if if things don't work outat the end because we are there.
We are the twenty four fourseven caretakers, who who who
love our kids, and then our kidslove us. And then as in our
(45:00):
case, they don't even even know,their birth parents as parents.
Yeah.
So, so how can
Cathy Worthington (45:07):
you Along along those lines, Slaine, what
what would you what advice wouldyou offer our listeners as a
takeaway today? Any advice oranything you really want them to
remember as a takeaway?
Lane Igoudin (45:21):
You know, I'll, I'll probably leave you with
with an unexpected takeaway onthis, which is, which is, we
love our kids, of course, andour kids love us and are part of
our lives in many ways. And, butI would say, think, remember
your partners. Because that'sone thing that really became
(45:45):
clear to me. You asked me, Well,how did you work on this? You
know, work on this because I werealized that our family starts
with us, with adults.
And it's easy to to, to overlookand to take for granted your
partners. So just remember tosupport your partner, to love
your partner, love him more. Youknow, and be there. And because
(46:08):
that's that's that's that's thefoundation of your family, and
that that's what the kids shouldsee. And that's and that's a
kind of, you know, that I thinkthat really helps to to build
your family.
So I would say it starts with apartner and continues with your
kids, and and that's where howhow it should be.
Cathy Worthington (46:24):
It forms Nice.
Merry Elkins (46:25):
I love that. Thank you. Our guest today on Late
Boomers has been Laine Ygoudin,author of the very well reviewed
memoir of Family Maybe. You cancontact Lane or read more about
him on his website, laneigoudin,l a n e I g 0 u d I n Com. Thank
(46:47):
you, Lynn.
That was really powerful andvery informative and touching.
Cathy Worthington (46:52):
Yes. So tune in tune in next week when we'll
be meeting another excitingguest. And please subscribe to
our Late Boomers podcast onYouTube, and take us along in
the car and on walks on yourfavorite audio platform. Let us
know what gets you inspired. Weare on Instagram at I am Kathy
Worthington and at I am MaryElkins and at late boomers.
(47:16):
Please share the late boomerspodcast info also with your
friends who may not yet belistening to podcasts. Thanks
again, Lane.
Thank you for joining us on Late Boomers. The
(47:37):
podcast that is your guide tocreating a third act with style,
power, and impact. Please visitour website and get in touch
with us at lateboomers.biz. Ifyou would like to listen to or
download other episodes of LateBoomers, go to
ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry Elkins (47:57):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third act with yourown style, power, and impact.
This is the EWN podcast network.
Cathy Worthington (00:14):
Welcome to Late Boomers, our podcast guide
to creating your third act withstyle, power, and impact. Hi.
I'm Kathy Worthington.
Merry Elkins (00:24):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Join us as we bring you
conversations with successfulentrepreneurs, entertainers, and
people with vision who aremaking a difference in the
world.
Cathy Worthington (00:34):
Everyone has a story, and we'll take you
along for the ride on eachinterview, recounting the
journey our guests have taken toget where they are, inspiring
you to create your own path tosuccess. Let's get started.
Hello. I'm Kathy Worthington welcoming you
(00:54):
to our latest episode of lateboomers. Today, our guest will
be covering a topic I think wehave never done before. His name
is Lane Egutin.
Merry Elkins (01:04):
And I'm Mary Elkins. Lane is the author of a
memoir called A Family, Maybe.He tells the story of fostering
and adopting from a perspectiveof what it's like to raise
multicultural children in thefirst generation of out gay
families. He knows about thestruggles that come with
fostering and then adopting, andwe look forward to hearing his
(01:27):
per step his perspective onthis. Welcome, Lane.
Lane Igoudin (01:31):
Thank you for having me here.
Cathy Worthington (01:33):
Great to have you. You're very welcome. We
wanna hear a little bit to setthe tone. You said you had a a a
first chapter of your book thatyou would like to share with us
and set the tone
for the podcast.
Lane Igoudin (01:48):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. My book is called a
a family maybe. That's what itlooks like. And we got our kids
on it when they were more likepre preteens or toddlers.
But, yeah, so I'm going to readthe first chapter from my book.
It's called curbside delivery.Well, she kinda describes what
(02:13):
what was happening. It's it'sthe very beginning of the
chapter, of the book. So I guessI'll just start from the
beginning.
Merry Elkins (02:21):
Yeah, please.
Lane Igoudin (02:22):
It was on a hot early summer afternoon, just
before the breezes would beginblowing inland from the ocean,
that Jonathan shot me anirritated sideways glance. Where
is she? Didn't she say early inthe morning? That was hours ago.
What's taking her so long?
A six foot three athlete withthe face of the Bridgerton lead,
(02:42):
my partner Jonathan was liningup daisy patterned onesies and
burp cloths by the bassinet in ababy room. I had heard him
vacuum in this this room earlierand before that tidying up the
crib and the toys in the greenbedroom upstairs. Patience,
dear, I sighed. Give her a fewmore minutes. She should be on
her way.
Like John, I was trying tocontrol my anxiety by being
(03:04):
useful, yet I couldn't helprushing to the window every time
I heard a car drive by. JackieWillis, our designated Los
Angeles County Social Worker,was neither here nor responding
to my calls. Did the countychange its mind? Did they
release the baby to her mother,Jenna? We had been living with
(03:24):
this uncertainty for months.
Jenna was due around MemorialDay. But with office closures
and Jackie out on medical leave,the baby could have gone to the
wrong home. But that MemorialDay, I received a phone call
from Babushka, my Russianspeaking grandmother. Mazel tov,
she announced. Your Jenna gavebirth today.
(03:45):
Well, how on earth do you knowthat? We've heard nothing from
the county. I just know, shesaid in her raspy, confident
voice. Takstonyvalnois isSamovidish. Don't worry.
You'll see it for yourself. Irelayed her announcement to
John, and he chuckled at my dear84 year old grandma, our closest
ally in the family. I chuckledtoo, but deep down, I felt even
(04:06):
more anxious. What if she wasright? I had no experience
raising a newborn, nor did John.
Zero. We had been trained andcertified, but that was all just
textbook training. We werereally about to become
caretakers of a tiny fragilelife, %, twenty four seven. What
were we getting ourselves into?Three days later, a social
worker called from the hospitalwith the news that the baby had
(04:28):
been born on Memorial Day atnoon, just as Babushka had said,
but she couldn't be releasedyet.
She had sepsis, a potentiallyfatal blood infection, and had
to be put on medication. Otherarrangements had already been
made by Jackie's Department ofChildren and Family Services.
The newborn would not bereleased to her mother. Instead,
(04:50):
she would be detained, that isput in the court's protective
custody and placed with us asher emergency foster home. The
baby would remain with us as herlong term foster parents, while
Jenna would be given anopportunity and resources to
reunify with her child.
Sepsis made it easier for thecounty to carry out its plan.
(05:12):
Jenna recovered quickly and wasdischarged home to continue, as
we were told, with her drugrehab and counseling. Meanwhile,
the baby was improving onantibiotics while the court on
the on the department on thecounty request formally detained
her. But Jenna came back tobreastfeed, and the nurse leaked
the secret. Devastated anddesperate, Jenna refused to
(05:35):
leave, pleading with the staffto let her take her baby home.
On June 6, the phone rang. I'mon my way to the hospital,
Jackie yelled over the freewayin the background. Jenna still
there? Oh, yes. Still there,camped out, refusing to leave.
She knows I'm coming to get thebaby. Poor Jenna. I couldn't
(05:57):
imagine how she would feel orwhat she would do once Jackie
got there. My chest tightened,and it was becoming real for us
too. After all these monthsreally real, our life was going
to split into before and after.
At 04:30, a black SUV pulled upto the curb in front of our
house. Jackie? John ran out thefront door. I followed him out
(06:18):
on the onto the porch into theblindingly bright afternoon.
Jackie didn't hand the babyover, but waited for John to
take her out of the car seatinside her vehicle.
Liability reasons, I assume. InJohn's hands, the baby looked
small like a small, like adelicate light brown doll, her
face not bigger than John'spalm. All she had on was a pink
(06:39):
onesie with the word babyembroidered embroidered in white
across the chest. Oh. Despite myhesitations, a strong affection
washed over me the moment I sawher, barely awake, helpless,
innocent.
And John just melted. Eyes onthe baby, breathlessly, he
carried her into the house.Jackie looked a bit shaken.
(07:02):
Jenna had confronted her in theparking lot yelling, accusing
her of betrayal. Jackie handedme the cooler bag with several
bottles of formula and a threeinch binder with medical
information and placementpapers.
The baby and the bag. No blackbaby blanket. Nothing else.
Merry Elkins (07:19):
Oh.
Lane Igoudin (07:20):
Then she glanced at her watch and said, I gotta
go, guys. Trying to beat therush hour. I thanked her. Jackie
got back into her SUV and left.It was done.
I found John inside in thehallway, standing still with a
baby in his arms, awestruck.Keeping eyes on her, he passed
the infant to me, Then he pickedup his car keys from the dining
(07:42):
room table and headed out. Iknew he would be back in a few
minutes and not alone. In myarms, the baby felt warm and
heavy, an unfamiliar weight. Andshe was whispering whimpering.
She was whimpering. She washungry, I assumed. So I sat down
on the couch, and Kraline, thelittle girl, gave her a feeding
from one of the disposableformula bottles left by Jackie.
(08:05):
While she sucked from the bluebottle nipple, I moved with my
index finger a slick of herslick lock of her hair to the
side of her forehead. What alovely baby.
She had a full head of ravenblack curly hair that receded in
civility fuzz on her foreheadand chin. Bumpy rosacea the
spots dyed her plump cheeks. Hereyes, as dark as John's, had
(08:27):
almost no eyelashes, and thescarlet birthmark smudged her
left eyelid. Her gaze seemedunexpectedly focused and
introspective as if whilelooking at me, she was thinking
of something else. How long willshe be with us?
What will the court what willthe court do with her and her
mother? I wondered. I was stillfeeding the baby when the front
(08:48):
door opened, and in walked Johnwith a toddler holding him by
the index finger, her cheeksrosy after a day of play at her
preschool, the baby's oldersister, Mariana.
Merry Elkins (09:00):
Oh, instant family. Chapter.
Lane Igoudin (09:04):
That's the
Cathy Worthington (09:05):
first chapter. Oh,
Merry Elkins (09:06):
I can't bring these to read more. We are.
Lane Igoudin (09:09):
We've got a newborn, and we got a pre
toddler, a 20 year old, hersister, also with us.
Merry Elkins (09:16):
Woah. Well, that's a handful or two. Mhmm. How how
did you and your partner,Jonathan, decide that fostering
was the way to go? It's hard,isn't it?
Lane Igoudin (09:29):
Especially It was all new.
Merry Elkins (09:31):
Extended the two babies at once.
Lane Igoudin (09:33):
It was all new. It's just the two of us. You
know, I helped to raise myyounger sister who is, who was
eight years younger than I was.And I always wanted to be a
father. That's something I Ialways saw in my future, really.
I I knew I was gay, and I kindof saw myself as a father with
(09:54):
two kids, as a single fatherwith two kids. Well, I ended up
being a married father with twokids. But still, I mean, I
always wanted to be a dad. Andat the time, when we went into
the process, we had multipleoptions open to us. As you know,
we could, we could have gonethrough surrogacy, that was that
(10:14):
was available.
And we could have done thatbecause we were both a
professional couple, you know,with with with income. We could
have gone internationally. Wecould have adopted a child from
from another country. And but wethought why should we do this
when when we, you know, we welive in in in Los Angeles
County. We live in Long Beach,California, which is part of Los
(10:36):
Angeles County.
And at that time and todaystill, Los Angeles has the
largest foster care system inthe country.
Cathy Worthington (10:45):
Really?
Lane Igoudin (10:45):
At at the time yes. Yes. And at that time, in
02/2004, '2 thousand '5, LosAngeles had more than 30,000
kids in this foster system. Andwe thought, why should we go and
travel and and all that whenwhen there's so many kids that
actually need a home rightprobably right down the block
from where we live? So we wentinto the system very sort of,
like, clear eyed.
Let's help the world. Let's openyou know, and then give them a
(11:11):
permanent forever family. And,so that's how we ended up going
into it. I'll be honest, and mybook is very frank and honest,
Jonathan wasn't always on boardwith that. He did not want to
have children at the beginning.
So it took a took a took a whilefor him to get into it. But once
he did, he was a he's been avery, very dedicated father. The
(11:35):
baby that you see us bringing inas a curbside delivery that day
into the house grew up almostliterally in John's chest
because he would be he would beanywhere. You know, he will go
everywhere with her, and she'llbe right here with her ear on
his on his heart. He'll bevacuuming.
He'll be cooking. He'll be, youknow, running the laundry or his
(11:56):
computer, and she'll be righthere. So there was, like, this
very, you know, went straightfrom the hospital into to into
his arms. And yeah, so that'show we started. We went into the
process.
Yeah. We got certified, had ourparents in classes, you know,
had our live scan, all that wewere all fine. You know, our
(12:18):
homestead was all fine. Andthings started to go wrong very
early on. And I decided to startto document this because I had
no idea that things may mightnot work out the way they're
supposed to.
And I thought, okay. Okay. Well,once this whole process is over,
I will share this experiencewith with with other, you know,
(12:39):
prospective parents. It's justfor the people who want to know
what it's like to go through thefoster system and then adopt out
of foster system.
Cathy Worthington (12:45):
In in hindsight, what do you wish you
knew about the adoption processbefore you started it?
Lane Igoudin (12:51):
Well, I wish I'd we'd been a little bit more
prepared for it. You know, Iwish we what what I say is, you
know, I'd I'd tell prospectiveparents that, you know, you
should expect unexpected becausethere are so many, because, you
know, public adoption is a verycomplex process with multiple
parties involved. So you've gotthe birth parents. You've got
(13:12):
the the county, which detain thechildren that the county are,
you know and the children areare in in the custody of of the
county. You've got the judge.
You've got the children'sattorney. And so we've got all
these multiple parties, none ofwhom, except for the birth
parents, would ever actually getto meet the children.
Merry Elkins (13:30):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (13:30):
And they all are making decisions. They're making
deals and all these things. Andso and all of that happens
behind the closed doors of thechildren's court because because
unlike regular courts, you know,if you're not one of the parties
to the case, you have no accessto to the proceedings. So, the
more the further down we wentinto the the the more we with
(13:50):
the the further we got into theprocess, the more we realized
how powerless we are, over thedecision making concerning the
children's the children thatwe're raising, you know, which
we went into the process wantingto adopt the children. So we we
didn't really plan to foster.
We planned to foster to adopt.And what we're told that the
baby at the time was actuallythe older child would go
(14:12):
straight up for adoption. Well,that didn't happen. She
actually, you know, things gotmuch more complicated than that.
And so we ended up in thisprocess where we're very, really
powerless to to do anythingabout the children that we're
that we were were attached to.
They only know us as theirparents. And we're in it week
after week, month after month,and as it happens, year after
(14:33):
year. And Yes. Because a lot of
Cathy Worthington (14:36):
a lot of fostering does not result in
adoption. Right. So you went inexpecting to adopt the foster
children, but that very oftendoesn't happen. And I think it
break breaks the heart ofeveryone involved
Lane Igoudin (14:50):
because Absolutely.
Cathy Worthington (14:51):
You have to give back the child.
Lane Igoudin (14:54):
Absolutely. And the whole idea of being a a
foster adoptive parent parent,there is a dilemma. You know?
There I mean, there's there's atension between you know? To
foster means you you you, youknow, you take care of them, you
get paid, and then you give themup when when the county tells
you you give them up.
Right? Usually, to the to the tothe to the birth family. When
you adopt somebody, you you'retaking a child to raise it as
your own for and and to be theirfamily forever, and you don't
(15:16):
want anybody else involved init.
Merry Elkins (15:17):
Yeah. Well, how did it invent your relationship
with your partner, Jonathan?
Lane Igoudin (15:23):
Well, what's interesting is that, hard and I
would say in some ways traumaticas the experience was, it
brought us closer together.Mhmm. Because it was just the
two of us. You know, we did nothave our extended family
involved, really, you know,John's parents passed away, you
know, and he at the time, hewent to the prosecutor, he was
43. You know, I was a little bityounger.
(15:46):
And, my, you know, my familylives in in in Northern
California. And as you will findout very early on as you as you
as you read my book, my motherrefused to help us. You know? I
have a very sort of complicatedrelationship with my mom. I'm
much closer to my dad and mygrandmother.
So it's just just the two of us.So we had to basically pick up
the slack, you know, wherever itwas. And, and so that's how it's
(16:09):
it was throughout theirchildhood, you know, it was just
the two of us working full timeand then raising two kids. And,
but I would say that we we also,grew kind of a supportive
network of of friends and, Iwould say, primarily moms. Moms
in our neighborhood.
You know? And, you know, I'mI'm, you know, I'm kind of
(16:29):
getting off on a lot of tangentshere. But but, you know, we
yeah. Because there are otherparents with kids of of our
kids' age, and we naturallybonded with them. And, you know,
we were helping each other.
You know? Hey. I'm running late.Can you pick up my kids? You
know?
Hey. You know? I I have this,this, and that. Do you have it
in your house? So so, yeah, itbecame kind of a very sort of
lively network, which continues,honestly, to this day.
(16:50):
You know? We just went out withfabulous. Yeah. To a show with
with with the parents of of ofanother, you know and and most
of them are, you know, juststraight months. It also, I
think, was good because, youknow, I'm asked like, now I'm
giving interviews about ourexperience, and and people
(17:11):
sometimes ask, well, you knowyou know, is it do you really
believe that there should be a,you know, a mom and a dad in in
the household to to have a childthat grows up to be healthy, you
know, and all that?
And, honestly, I don't believethat. I believe it takes a
responsible adult, a responsiblefunctioning adult, whoever that
adult is. I was raised by mygrandparents, more so than my my
(17:33):
my my my my mom and dad, but mybut my I I grew up with my
grandparents. So it takes aresponsible adult. However, to,
you know, to to to do thecaretaking and all the physical,
physiological, all that and andlove and give all that and that
sense of, you know, strength andsafe safety and security.
But, I also believe that a childshould be exposed to the role
(17:57):
models of their gender. So inour case, my sister, at the
time, she was alive. She passedaway later on. But so she was
present in in our kids' lives.You know, we have, you know, met
Shamat dinners.
You know? And so she wouldalways come over. But also these
moms that I mentioned, you know,there are strong women, you
know, running families, andthat's what our daughters grew
(18:19):
up seeing. You know? That'swhat, you know, who you should
be.
You should be a strong woman inthis society knowing you know,
knowing, knowing who you can beand and what you should do. So
so that's that's your owncommunity. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.
Cathy Worthington (18:34):
How would you say the challenges that you
faced in the early two thousandsdiffer from the ones that
adoptive families might facetoday? And tell us if the
adoption process has changed atall for better or for worse.
Lane Igoudin (18:49):
Well, I wish I could tell you something very,
very positive about it, But Iwould say that the it and it's
it's essentially, the theprocess hasn't changed much.
Mhmm. And the struggles we faceas adoptive parents in a system
which really is designed toreturn the children to their
birth families no matter what,And it's only in the situation
where it's not possible. Youknow, children get onto what's
(19:11):
called the concurrent planning,the on on on the on the parallel
track, which is either adoptionor long term foster care. That
process hasn't really changed.
You know? It's still very muchthe same, you know, and pretty
much every step of the way. Insome ways, I would say it got
even more strict. There's been alot of, I mean, adoptive
(19:33):
families are still I still, viewit as kind of less than and the
unwanted outcome, I should say.And it really breaks my heart
because because that's not how Ibelieve it's the whole thing
should be.
Right. You know, I believe thatfrom the moment the child is is
is is is, removed from theirbirth family for all these
criteria that they have tofulfill in order to do it.
(19:54):
Believe me, the state doesn'twant your children. A state like
California, you know, which isalready overburdened with with,
with tens of thousands ofchildren, does not want any
additional cases and and all thecost and that that it entails.
You know, social workers havefar too many cases on their
desks.
Court children's, children'scourt judges have far too many
(20:15):
cases to handle. They don't wanttheir children. But if they have
to remove the child, I believethat from the get go, there
should be they they're calledconcurrent concurrent planning.
It should be concurrentplanning. They should plan for
the return of the child to thebirth family, but also to to
make sure that the family thatthey're in is is supported and
and respected and given as manyresources as everyone else,
(20:36):
which was not the case with us.
So, unfortunately, it hasn'tchanged much.
Merry Elkins (20:41):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (20:41):
As for us as as gay parents, because we were
like the first generation of ofof of our gay parents out there.
It has changed. We do have,equal rights in in all 50
states. But of course, that canalso be taken away. And we may
end up being exactly what wewere twenty five years ago.
So hopefully, that won't change.
Merry Elkins (21:03):
Knock on wood.
Lane Igoudin (21:05):
Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Yeah. Because
back back then back then,throughout this whole process,
we remained two singleindividuals. Jonathan and I,
even though we'd been togetherfor for a while at that point.
But but still, you know, raisingtwo related children. You know,
we're raising two sisters beingcompletely known to each other
(21:26):
in the in the hands of thefederal government. And if we
were to take these children,even when they we adopted them
jointly, you know, if we were tocross the state line into some
states, our, parental rightscould have been taken away. It
was quite crazy back then. So wewon't go back to that.
(21:46):
But, but I'm hopeful thingsthings will will work out. But
unfortunately, this wholeprocess is hasn't changed much.
No. So I think that's importantfor whoever is considering that
they they know what they'redealing with. It's a system
which has a lot of unknowns anda lot of, ideologies, which made
it the way it is.
So
Merry Elkins (22:05):
Mhmm. Well, on on a different note, you are
Russian Jewish, and yourhusband, Jonathan, is African
American, and your kids are partHispanic and mixed race. So And
Lane Igoudin (22:17):
white. You know? White. The mother is white.
Merry Elkins (22:19):
How many do you have now? I have to ask. Two.
Lane Igoudin (22:22):
Well, we say, well, I have two. Okay. And
Good. So how how do you manageall these cultures
Merry Elkins (22:28):
in one family? It must be quite interesting to
deal with all those cultures inone family. And and also, how
did your Jewish faith andheritage become part of your
nurturing process?
Lane Igoudin (22:41):
You know, this actually preceded, us deciding
to have children. When John andI met, and and he is, African
American, also mixed race, Andmyself, I I am I am Jewish. We
we decided that whatever youbring into the relationship, we
will honor it. And so it neverbothered me that bothered me
(23:03):
that John would put up aChristmas tree or, you know, we
have Christmas presents and for,you know, Easter, you know, the
the, the the Easter icon. Imean, it's perfectly fine.
That's And
Merry Elkins (23:14):
your kids love it.
Lane Igoudin (23:15):
Do it. And they love it. Yeah. They love it.
They would help them put up thethe the ornaments.
You know, we started having, youknow, like, when we moved in
together, we started havingShabbat dinners, and then my
sister would join us. So it wasbefore the kids before the kids.
So sort of it was a naturaltransition. And my my husband,
you know, he hasn't converted toJudaism, but he helped me raise
(23:36):
them Jewish. What I believe in,and, honestly, is that for the
children whose biological rootshave been cut because ours is a
closed adoption, You know, soit's that there is no connection
to the biological family besidesthe biology itself.
So I think it's important forthem not feel that they're,
like, out there sort of floatingand then sort of a vacuum. I
(23:57):
usually use the metaphor of ofour children children being
grafted onto our family trees.
Merry Elkins (24:04):
Oh, so That's fantastic.
Lane Igoudin (24:06):
That they're being yeah. And and and, you know,
John's family, you know, theythey come out from Central
California quite a bit. So so soand and and he is, you know, he
is, he has a very, very, richhistory, you know, African
American culture and historyvery much present in our
household. And so they feellike, okay, we're we're part of
that too. You know?
And then raised Jewish. They'rethat, that's that's the faith
(24:30):
that they grew up with. And Ithink today I don't know if you
guys know about this, butespecially living here in Los
Angeles, we have this kind of akind of a rising sense of, like,
being what what what it means tobe Jewish, like, being, the race
with the sense of being Jewishwomen of color. Because we do
have quite a lot of inter youknow, interracial marriage in my
community and and and peopleconverting from outside of,
(24:53):
outside of the community. So sothey're they're definitely not
alone.
They don't feel they don't feelin any way, so, like, oh, you
know, been different. You know,believe me out here, it's it's
it's it's it's very common. Butthey do have that that
connection to to God and and toto faith and and to to the
tradition, but also to thecommunities where it came from.
(25:14):
We did expose them as much as wecould to to the Hispanic culture
because they are part Latina.You know?
Merry Elkins (25:22):
What did you do?
Lane Igoudin (25:23):
What did we do? Okay. So, the the the the the
preschool that went to hadHispanic staff, and so we asked
them to speak Spanish to them.We we had them enrolled in
summer camps at the Museum ofLatin American Art here. We've
we've got to Dylan, we've got togreat lengths.
I used we used to paint ourfaces for for day of the dead
(25:44):
and march in the procession. Itwas fun. But, ultimately,
they've been exposed to that.We've been to Central to to
Mexico and Central America withthem. At the end of the day, I
would say up until now, I thinkI'm much more excited about it
than they are.
Merry Elkins (25:59):
But but
Lane Igoudin (25:59):
I feel you know? And and I've taken Spanish in
school, and then so so they theythey do know the language. And
then we live in the in theculture where it's it's it's
right it's all right here. Soit's like they've been exposed
to that. Now that they'readults, you know, it's up to
them to decide how how much theywant to be part of it.
I don't see too much interest,to be honest. But but if they
(26:21):
want to connect, I mean, it'swith with with with with those
with those roots, I mean, it'sit's there. It's there for them.
It's available to them, andwe've exposed them. I feel like
my my job as a parent has beendone in terms of exposing them
when they're children, but nowthey're adults to make decision.
Cathy Worthington (26:36):
For sure. And I wanted to ask you a very,
maybe, touchy question.
Merry Elkins (26:40):
But do
Cathy Worthington (26:41):
you do you have new fears now with our new
administration, the stand onLGBTQ rights?
Lane Igoudin (26:50):
I do. I do. I see what happened to the adoption
rights. And I'm I I'm afraid itmight go down the same route
because it takes one SupremeCourt decision to to undo the
2015 Obergefell, court case,which which, allowed, you know,
same sex marriage in all 50states. So I am definitely
(27:12):
worried.
I also see that this newgeneration of the LGBTQ youth
sort of grew up in the years ofof, of, tolerance. And and they
take a lot of things forgranted, which we didn't because
we did not grow up in that sortof environment. We had to fight
Mhmm.
Merry Elkins (27:31):
For our
Lane Igoudin (27:31):
rights. And that part of that actually, is is in
my book too, the sort of, like,coming of age. Because what
happened is our family storyoverlaps with the struggle for
for for same sex marriage andjust for for for equality. And
when we went into we're kinda,like, under the radar. You know,
there there was a few stateswhich would allow gay men to
(27:53):
adopt as as individuals or ascouples, but but a lot of states
wouldn't.
So, like but as as a strugglesort of on, you know, on, you
know, as as a struggle, kind ofcame into the public spotlight,
so did the gay families. And sothat's the the save the children
argument is just
Cathy Worthington (28:12):
what Right.
Lane Igoudin (28:13):
I'm afraid. So so we we were very much part of it,
you know, and I and I do do,describe how we were we were,
you know, yeah. We did a lot ofthings. You know? We're all the
way to the judiciary committeeof the senate to testify about
our family story, to be honest,and trying to overturn.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah.We did a lot.
And I'm I'm afraid we might beback. And, but but I also
(28:36):
believe, honestly, I I've spokenon in some very conservative, I
would say, radio shows and, andsome podcasts where where my
audience would not be what youwould expect expect it to be.
And I felt that it's importantto reach across the aisle.
(28:57):
Because what I found, and I'llbe I'll share with you, what I
found is that the other half ofthe country has has many
concerns, which we would share,for example, about public about
child welfare. And they mightcome from a different place,
they might have differentsolutions.
But the issues are the same inmany ways. So it's it's talking
(29:19):
and trying to to acknowledgethat, okay, we are concerned
about we are concerned aboutshell welfare, we're concerned
about all these 10s of 1000s ofkids that are rotting, I'm
sorry, to use that term infoster care, they shouldn't be
there, They should not be there.If they're they can't go back to
the families, you know, they,you know, they they should be
they expedite their adoption andother other other scenarios
(29:40):
instead of having stuck in thisin this rough force for years.
Okay? So we're concerned aboutso what can where can we find
this common ground to to changethe system?
You know, I think that's, that'sthat's what we should. So I try
not to I tried, I think weshould really try to reach
across and see what is it thatwe can actually connect on. Did
you find where we are. We we'vegot this administration that we
(30:03):
have. Okay.
What can we do about it now?
Merry Elkins (30:05):
Did you find any common ground with any
solutions?
Lane Igoudin (30:09):
I I did, and I found it. I would say, again,
for them coming from where theyare, it's like an an out gay dad
speak speaking about
Merry Elkins (30:18):
Yeah. I mean, true.
Lane Igoudin (30:19):
Family realizing that, listen, you know, when it
comes to caretaking of a child,we're no different than you are,
you know, or a neighbor's nextdoor. You know? You know, I have
you know, it's the samediapering, and it's the same,
you know, PTA, and it's thesame, you know, for for, you
know, trials and tribulationsthat we we go through as
parents.
Merry Elkins (30:38):
Yeah. But are the laws different for two mom
versus two dad families?
Lane Igoudin (30:44):
Well, not anymore. Not anymore because of the
because of the Supreme Courtdecision 2015.
Merry Elkins (30:50):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (30:51):
But, we got married in the state of
California in 02/2008 when whenthe Supreme Court of California
back then legalized same sexmarriage. But five months later,
we were stuck in a in a limbobecause, we had a we had a we
had a we had a we had a we had aproblem with the proposition
that passed, which outlawed samesex marriage again. From 02/2008
(31:12):
from '2 to 2015, we were in thislimbo. We were married in the
state of California, and we weresingle in the eyes of the
federal government, and half thestates which didn't which didn't
recognize same sex marriage. Andthat affected us as a family
that have also affected thestatus of our kids to some
degree.
So, so yeah, so the last tenyears have been good, but we can
(31:34):
go.
Cathy Worthington (31:34):
Well, tell us, how are your kids today? And
how old are they?
Lane Igoudin (31:38):
They're 18 and 20. And they're wonderful young
ladies, now. And so, again, youknow, as a parent, you learn,
like, each stage of parenting asyou go through it. You probably
know about it. And just when yougot, let's say, you're, you
know, the preteens, they're nowteens, just when you kind of
survive the hell of theiradolescence, they're now adult
(32:01):
adult women with boyfriends.
You know? And that was a wholeother reality as to how much you
can influence their decisions.And, so and and so so things
change. So we're learning we'relearning, how to we're now empty
nesting. You know, our youngerdaughter now started college.
So yeah.
Merry Elkins (32:21):
What what is she majoring in? What is she
interested in majoring
Lane Igoudin (32:24):
in management? Environmental science. She wants
yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
She's she's at a UC. So she isan emerging environment,
environmental science. And,yeah, that's, that's her
passion. And we're here tosupport support her, of course,
you know, our oldest daughter ismore like looking for herself.
(32:46):
You know, she tried college.
She, you know, she left college.She might be going back to
college, working a little. Sowe're supporting her. And but we
still get together regularlybecause, the campus where our
younger daughter is is just youknow, she can take the train
into into town. So I would sayevery two, three weeks, she
comes over and stays for theweekend.
And so we all get together andwe FaceTime. And so, you know
(33:09):
yeah. Transalore has to do thisafter, you know
Merry Elkins (33:12):
Yeah. Yeah. It's no different than any other
parent, really, with that. Yeah.Yeah.
It helps
Lane Igoudin (33:17):
to translate who we are and what we are after
twenty years of parenting.
Merry Elkins (33:22):
So talk about the idea, the writing your book, and
talk about the idea of how theidea came about. And, and then
I'm curious how long it took towrite it and complete it.
Lane Igoudin (33:33):
Yeah. Well, like I said, I I wanted to share our
experience with with with justwith with people. Just, you
know, tell them, hey. You know,you see that that huge, you
know, children's court up on thehill, you know, at the at where,
you know, a seven 10 meets 10.And but do you really know
what's going on behind theclosed doors?
You know? Well, let me tell youwhat it's like. You know? Let's
say it's it's it's quite a trip.It's quite a trip.
(33:56):
So I wanted to tell this storyof family building and of, you
know, of our child welfareissues, you know, problems that
we're really, you know, facingas society. And so I kept, like,
putting all these, you know,faxes and brochures and all that
into boxes, court orders. Andand I thought, okay. I'll once
we get through this, I'll sitdown and write a book. Well,
(34:17):
when once we got through this, Icouldn't.
I was so so PTSD about all this.I I couldn't face any of this
for, like, another
Merry Elkins (34:25):
four understand.
Lane Igoudin (34:25):
Four years, another four years. And then I
started I decided, okay, like, Ithink four years later, I
decided that, okay, let let mesee what's in those boxes. So so
I started to write, you know,little bits and bits and pieces
and started sort of stitchingthe narrative together. Took me
eight years, eight years to toput together a draft, and and
(34:47):
then find a publisher. The bookis published by traditional
publisher, which is based atPortland State University.
And, and so when I had a booktour, it started in Portland,
and then we went down to LA. AndI did a bunch of talks here,
Palm Springs and West Hollywood,Los Angeles. And then I spoke
(35:09):
all the way down to took me allthe way down to Mexico City. So
it was mostly West Coast. Yeah.
But now thanks to that's quite atuner. Our story with with with,
with, readers, and listeners towherever they are. So that's
that's a great opportunity.
Cathy Worthington (35:26):
What what would you say are the challenges
of writing a memoir thathighlights social and political
issues like this?
Lane Igoudin (35:34):
Yeah. Well, the challenge, I I would say there
are multiple challenges. One is,how much research do you want to
bring into writing a book likethis without trying to to, pass
it off as a social studies?Because if I were to do that, I
should really interview multipleparties, and it should be more
(35:56):
objective. But I realized thatbut that's not what this really
is.
This is a first personnarrative, what it's like to go
through the process. So first,my book was actually about 50%
larger than what it is now,because of all this research and
all the studies. And then andthen I decided to, you know, let
let me take out most of it. I'mI'm I'm still using some of it.
(36:16):
You know, for example, when I'mtalking about Los Angeles County
foster care, I mean, I do bringstatistics showing that that we
had, you know, over 30,000 kidsin it.
At that time, the system cost,the department, budget was
$1,600,000,000 back twenty yearsago, bringing things showing
(36:37):
that, you know, critical as I amas of of the social workers and
the judges, when I startedlooking into what you know,
their workloads, they're crazy.I mean, like, really? Like, a
judge is supposed to have, like,a 60 cases on her desk. She you
know, they would have up to 600cases to manage. You know?
(36:58):
Anyone that can never get toreally relate to any of these
kids when they have to processthese, you know, massive
caseloads. You know, the socialworkers, you know, what what
they have to deal with and thenthen and the way they change,
you know, the the children'sattorneys, you know, that we we
have one in our case, in ourchildren's cases that work with
them. And then all of a sudden,she's gone. And there's a brand
(37:18):
new person who has no knows notnothing about the case and gets
this file thrown on her desk,you know, the day before the
before very important, you know,court date. You know?
It's it's it's it's an so I so Ihad to bring a little bit to
just to kind of to to to providesome sort of a background, some
sort of a basis for what whatwas going on. I would say
another challenge.
Merry Elkins (37:38):
Bringing AI into it and
Lane Igoudin (37:40):
not Yeah. Really. Write it for me. Well, don't
tell my students that, though. Itell them, if you use the AI,
you know, you'll just get a zeroon my on your essays and
research papers.
You have to do it yourself. Oldschool. Old school. But I would
say another challenge was that,in terms of social, when you
(38:00):
write about a social issue, Ireally I was really curious
about the history of adoption.How did adoption start?
Because adoption is not commonto many cultures in the world.
You know, it's it's I mean, inmany ways, it's very much an
American phenomena.
Merry Elkins (38:15):
Really?
Lane Igoudin (38:15):
You know? Yeah. Yeah. Even in Western Europe,
you you know, it it exists, buton a much smaller scale
proportionate to the size of thepopulation. But still, it's kind
of like it's more on the it'smore on the fringes of the
society as as an institution.
Whereas in America, it's verymuch sort of part of our social
fabric. And so I was curiousabout how it started. And I when
(38:36):
I discovered, to my to mysurprise well, as any, I would
say, liberal social issue beganin, guess where, Massachusetts.
Massachusetts was the firststate to abolish the to abolish
slavery. It was I think it wasone of the first states to
allow, interracial marriage.
It was the first states to havesame sex marriage. It was also
(38:58):
the first state to pass theadoption statutes back in
eighteen fifties, I think,roughly speaking. And what had
happened, it it also set up seta certain precedent for what
adoption law should be, forbetter or for worse. One of
which is that children aretreated as property. I I was
very surprised to discoverchildren in 1850 were very much
(39:21):
treated as a property, I guess,as wives were too, by the way,
not just Yeah.
Slavery in The States. You know,a chattel. Right? We're talking
about the system of chattel.
Cathy Worthington (39:29):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (39:31):
And so the return of the property to their
rightful owners was at thecenter of it, and it sort of,
like, overshadowed everythingelse that might happen to the
child, him or herself. Right?
Merry Elkins (39:40):
Mhmm.
Lane Igoudin (39:40):
So, so there's some very interesting precedents
set by the statute. So I I dotalk a little bit about that. So
you have so as a social issue,there are a lot of ideologies
and beliefs that come intosetting up the system and, which
becomes very inflexible. Youknow? It's it's hard to to
change them, to break them overtime.
Merry Elkins (39:58):
Mhmm. Not once you change them now.
Lane Igoudin (40:01):
So so that was that that was one challenge.
Another challenge, I should say,is that I I changed as a person.
When you write a memoir aboutyourself, you know, ten,
fifteen, twenty years ago well,not twenty. When I wrote it, it
was it was ten, fifteen yearsearlier. I have changed through
the process, and I changed as aperson.
So this this growing distancebetween between Lane who lived
(40:22):
through the through the eventsand Lane Lane who is writing it,
like because I'm like, well, whydid I do that? I wouldn't do
this now. Like, you know,certain things or, like, I
wasn't thinking about it. Butbut also but I I tried to that
that was a big that that wasthat was a major challenge. And
and trying to kind of still saytell the story in the voice of
the person who lived therethrough that, but also kind of
(40:44):
stepping aside a little bit andputting it in perspective.
You know, for example, myunderstanding of the birth
mother who's who really, reallystruggled, really kinda grew
over time. You know, at thattime, I was really concerned
about the the children's future,and I didn't maybe see it as as
much as I did as as once theintensity of it went away. And I
really I feel so I feel sosorry. I feel so much compassion
(41:07):
for her, you know, and for forthe life that she led and for
the life she's probably stillleading. You know, I I really
hope things worked outpersonally.
Right.
Merry Elkins (41:16):
How do you feel about your book now? And, what
kind of feedback have you hadfrom your readers?
Lane Igoudin (41:25):
Well, what's interesting is I'm continuing to
change as a person and as awriter. You know, I write a lot.
I write a lot about aboutparenting. I also write a lot
about spiritual growth and thenfaith and things like that. But
I, you know, mindfulness, all ofthat.
So I'm changing as a person. Butthe book is is is set in, you
(41:46):
know, prints, you know, that thebook is not changing. And now
the book is taken on a on a lifeof its own. Because now I I
mean, like, you know, if youlook up, let's say, of,
adoption, it pops up. Right?
So now it's like it's like partof the canon on adaptive writing
or on on something else. So it'slike, I'm not a, you know, so to
me, it's like, you know, it itit took on a a life of its own.
(42:11):
In terms of response, I wouldsay, well, I've had very
positive response. I haven't hadany negative encounters, but
I've been thankfully, ever sincethe book got released. Oh, good.
Very different types ofresponses. One response is from
a general audience, you know,and which is, oh, that's,
that's, oh, wow, you know, allthese things we didn't know it's
(42:33):
so wow, really, it's really likethis? Yeah. It really is like
that. All that.
But I get a very differentresponse from anyone who has
actually gone through thesystem.
Merry Elkins (42:41):
Oh.
Lane Igoudin (42:42):
Usually, adoptees, people, you know, who have been
adopted out of foster care orwho have been through foster
care or who who have tried toadopt anybody who is familiar
with foster care, in any shapeor form. They have a very
visceral reaction to the book,and they're like, thank you for
(43:03):
selling it exactly how it iswithout trying to to, in any way
sort of to to to romanticize it.Because as a as a lone liberal
or progressive, I want things tobe different. You know? I really
want, you know, to to believethat, oh, if you just give some
resources to to the people, theycan just build themselves up and
(43:24):
become the the the the parents,that they really should be in
the in the first place.
And in some situations, youknow, yes, they can. But in
some, as my book shows, it'simpossible. And it's just, it's
a by doing this, you reallycontinue sort of cascading the
trauma down to the kids, and itcosts a tremendous amount of
(43:44):
money to the to to thetaxpayers. Yes. Really not fair
to to the families that areraising them, like us.
You know? So so that type ofmessage, which may be
uncomfortable to some people,people who who are familiar with
foster care, like, thank you.Thank you. Because that's,
unfortunately, how it is, youknow, that, you know, we often,
(44:07):
we often, like, wish for, youknow, this, like, for some sort
of a pie in the sky solution tothis one. The other, people are
who they are.
Merry Elkins (44:15):
It it sounds to me that you've written a book that
really is important for everyoneinvolved in foster care, every
aspect of it, whether you're asocial worker or the courts or a
future parent. Sounds like abook that everybody should read.
Do you have one solution to helpthe system at all?
Lane Igoudin (44:37):
Well, I do think I do think that the, adoptive
families should be part of thepart of the discussion very,
very much so. Not not somethingthat is like, okay, it happens
if if if things don't work outat the end because we are there.
We are the twenty four fourseven caretakers, who who who
love our kids, and then our kidslove us. And then as in our
(45:00):
case, they don't even even know,their birth parents as parents.
Yeah.
So, so how can
Cathy Worthington (45:07):
you Along along those lines, Slaine, what
what would you what advice wouldyou offer our listeners as a
takeaway today? Any advice oranything you really want them to
remember as a takeaway?
Lane Igoudin (45:21):
You know, I'll, I'll probably leave you with
with an unexpected takeaway onthis, which is, which is, we
love our kids, of course, andour kids love us and are part of
our lives in many ways. And, butI would say, think, remember
your partners. Because that'sone thing that really became
(45:45):
clear to me. You asked me, Well,how did you work on this? You
know, work on this because I werealized that our family starts
with us, with adults.
And it's easy to to, to overlookand to take for granted your
partners. So just remember tosupport your partner, to love
your partner, love him more. Youknow, and be there. And because
(46:08):
that's that's that's that's thefoundation of your family, and
that that's what the kids shouldsee. And that's and that's a
kind of, you know, that I thinkthat really helps to to build
your family.
So I would say it starts with apartner and continues with your
kids, and and that's where howhow it should be.
Cathy Worthington (46:24):
It forms Nice.
Merry Elkins (46:25):
I love that. Thank you. Our guest today on Late
Boomers has been Laine Ygoudin,author of the very well reviewed
memoir of Family Maybe. You cancontact Lane or read more about
him on his website, laneigoudin,l a n e I g 0 u d I n Com. Thank
(46:47):
you, Lynn.
That was really powerful andvery informative and touching.
Cathy Worthington (46:52):
Yes. So tune in tune in next week when we'll
be meeting another excitingguest. And please subscribe to
our Late Boomers podcast onYouTube, and take us along in
the car and on walks on yourfavorite audio platform. Let us
know what gets you inspired. Weare on Instagram at I am Kathy
Worthington and at I am MaryElkins and at late boomers.
(47:16):
Please share the late boomerspodcast info also with your
friends who may not yet belistening to podcasts. Thanks
again, Lane.
Thank you for joining us on Late Boomers. The
(47:37):
podcast that is your guide tocreating a third act with style,
power, and impact. Please visitour website and get in touch
with us at lateboomers.biz. Ifyou would like to listen to or
download other episodes of LateBoomers, go to
ewnpodcastnetwork.com.
Merry Elkins (47:57):
This podcast is also available on Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, and most other majorpodcast sites. We hope you make
use of the wisdom you've gainedhere and that you enjoy a
successful third act with yourown style, power, and impact.
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