March 29, 2025 • 24 mins
Are Vaccines Good For Us?
Marschall S. Runge, M.D., Ph.D., was born in Austin, Texas, and graduated from Vanderbilt University with a BA in General Biology and a PhD in Molecular Biology. He received his medical degree from the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and trained in internal medicine at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He was a cardiology fellow and junior faculty member at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. Runge’s next position was at Emory University, where he directed the Cardiology Fellowship Training Program. He then moved to the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, where he was Chief of Cardiology and Director of the Sealy Center for Molecular Cardiology. He joined the University of North Carolina (UNC) from 2000 – 2014, where he served as Charles Addison and Elizabeth Ann Sanders Distinguished Professor of Medicine, Chair of the Department of Medicine, President of UNC Physicians and Vice Dean for Clinical Affairs. Dr. Runge visits with Mark Alyn.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/late-night-health-radio--2804369/support.
Marschall S. Runge, M.D., Ph.D., was born in Austin, Texas, and graduated from Vanderbilt University with a BA in General Biology and a PhD in Molecular Biology. He received his medical degree from the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and trained in internal medicine at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He was a cardiology fellow and junior faculty member at Massachusetts General Hospital. Dr. Runge’s next position was at Emory University, where he directed the Cardiology Fellowship Training Program. He then moved to the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, where he was Chief of Cardiology and Director of the Sealy Center for Molecular Cardiology. He joined the University of North Carolina (UNC) from 2000 – 2014, where he served as Charles Addison and Elizabeth Ann Sanders Distinguished Professor of Medicine, Chair of the Department of Medicine, President of UNC Physicians and Vice Dean for Clinical Affairs. Dr. Runge visits with Mark Alyn.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/late-night-health-radio--2804369/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Late Night Health continues. I'm Mark Gallan along with the
insane Daryl Wayne. We're going to go to the University
of Michigan. We're going to speak with the dean of
the medical school there. He's the CEO of Michigan Medicine
as well uh and president of Medical Affairs at the university.
We're going to be talking about vaccines. Are they good
(00:29):
or are they bad? Do we need them? Don't we
need them? His name is doctor Marshall and he spells
Marshall differently too rungy rungji rungky rungky rungky So you
told me to call you Marshall and I will. Are
vaccines in general good for us in Europe?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, in my opinion, vaccines are in general good for us.
There's there's a range of how how good and how
important they are. But I think it's really important to
remember when we talk about vaccines, we're not talking about
the individual. We're talking about public health, and we're talking
(01:12):
about with communicable diseases that we prevent their spread. And
there have been great successes with vaccines, as you know.
So I am a fan of vaccines. Now they get
criticized from time to time, there is a component of
our population who doesn't believe in vaccines, and so I
(01:36):
will tell you I do believe in vaccines.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So I'm not a fan of like sixty five vaccines
before you're seven or eight years old so you can
go to school. I don't understand it. One of them
is for sexually transmitted diseases. It just it doesn't register
measle vaccines. Yeah, I know that people die measles. I
(02:01):
had measles, but I got measles as you did. I'm sure,
marsh your mom said, look, Billy down the street has measles,
go play with.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Him, right, That is exactly right, And I would I.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Just have to think that that's a better way of
developing an immunity to measles than getting a shot.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I would say this mark if we could count
on that, I think that that would be true for
many childhood vaccinations. Chicken pox is another one. You know,
we went down the street to play with kids who
had chicken pox, and I remember having both chicken pox
and measles. You know, it's interesting to note that both
(02:48):
of those diseases, while they have serious consequences for children,
they're much more serious for adults. So if you don't
have immunity against measles or chicken pox, and you get
those when you're in your thirties or forties, they are
a severe disease. So the question is, in my mind,
(03:10):
I think that there are certain vaccines that it makes
sense to have mandatory vaccination that's really only in children.
And you might say, well, why is that. And let's
take measles as an example. So measles is making a
comeback in the United States because there's a significant portion
of the population that has not been vaccinated, and largely
(03:31):
it comes from other countries and where there aren't strong
vaccination programs, but it was essentially eradicated in the United
States using the vaccine program. And well, what's different now
than when you and I were young and we were
getting exposed by We're still yeah, we're still thank you. Park. Well,
(03:56):
what's different is we have large segments of the population
and who with new medications are living longer, but they
are immuno suppressed, so they're not able to handle these
infections as well.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So if you let's say you take.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Somebody who's young person who has a malignancy and has
been on chemotherapy, they get measles, and that can be fatal,
or they get chicken box and that can be fatal.
And so an example that I think I gave you
when we were communicating was that we had an outbreak
(04:30):
in Michigan where there were children in a packed emergency
room setting, or maybe it was in a pediatric practice,
and a couple of the kids had measles, and that
ended up being a small but significant outbreak of measles
twenty or thirty people had there been people who were
(04:51):
unvaccinated and who had who might have been there for
medical reasons, who had immuno suppressed systems that put them
at risk. So it is this whole balance that I
think is is a difficult, difficult one to grab as
a concept to say, well, it's good for it may
(05:13):
may not be good for everybody in the population, but
it's especially good for some people in the population. So
is that enough reason to vaccinate? I think it is
for some diseases that I agree with what you said.
I don't think we ought to be having mandatory vaccinations
for many, many different vaccinations before kids in her school
in Michigan, which is similar to most states, you can't
(05:35):
start in public schools without having the basic vaccinations, not everything.
If the vaccinations for HPV, which is a sexually transmitted
disease that's happening in children, I didn't I didn't know
that was happening in children, but I just But the.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Other thing is that some of the new were vaccines. Okay,
and we're gonna I'm gonna put you on the spot.
I think the FDA is wrong on a lot of levels. Okay,
I think we need to reinvent the FDA. There's it. Uh,
(06:17):
it seems to me as a as a layperson, as
somebody who reports on this on a regular basis, there's
just a disconnect with the FDA. If there's money, something
gets approved and then people start dying and they pull it. Oops,
(06:40):
it's a little late. I mean, that's it. Just is.
I also think of things like genetically modified organisms. Okay,
you grow a lot of corn in Michigan. You're part
of the corn belt. Maybe not as much as Iowa,
but you do grow a significant amount absolutely of corn.
(07:01):
And genetically modified stuff. We don't have enough studies on
we don't know what it does. And I think it's
the same thing with vaccines. GMOs non GMOs are not
allowed in the European Union. They're sneaking them in now
(07:23):
as my understanding, but generally speaking they're not allowed. Why
there are things like round up okay, which my father
liberally used in our garden right in the sixties. It's
still being sold and in my opinion, shouldn't be. It's
(07:48):
even being put into food with the genetically modified organisms,
and I think there's a similarity between that and vaccines.
So thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, so let me start by talking about the FDA.
I think the FDA has done some good things, but
it's become a huge bureaucracy. But I think it makes
it difficult for decision making. So, for example, when a
new vaccine comes along or a new drug comes along,
(08:26):
they're expert panels, and the experts panels are made up
of physicians, pharmacists, others who have expertise in that particular area.
But like all committees, it's hard to get a consensus
out of that, and so I think a lot of
what we see from the FDA is bound by the
(08:48):
opinions of these experts. They call them in and they
get expert opinions, but I think that slows some approvals.
I think that I'll give you a couple of examples
where I think things went right or things went wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So I ask you to hold that thought. Okay, come back,
We'll take a break. When we come back, we'll continue that.
Our guest is doctor Marshall. He is the CEO of
Michigan Medicine, is a busy man. He is the dean
of the medical school. You didn't let me in, but
that's because I well.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I wouldn't hear you know, things would have been different.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Mark yes, right, and President of Medical Affairs at the
University of Michigan. I'm Mark Allen, along with the insane
Daryl Wayne the Doctor, and I will return in just
a couple of moments. His Late Night Help continues. Late
(09:54):
Night Help is proud of our partnership with the EBC,
the Evolutionary Business, so check them out at Ebcouncil dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
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Late Night Health continues. I'm Mark Allen along with the
(13:47):
insane Darrow Wayne. We're talking with doctor Marshall Rungji RUNGI.
I think I got it closer. And he's the executive
ep for Medical Affairs at the University of Michigan. The
dean of the medical school didn't let me in, but
maybe you'll let me teach a class. I think I
could teach teach a really great communications course. And yep,
(14:11):
I agree. Four hours, it'll be over maybe five. I
talk a lot. You have some stories that I want
to get into. But first, we both took the sugar cube,
the polio sugar cube, right, Yeah, wasn't that kind of
(14:36):
vaccine different than what they're selling us now like COVID,
And I have to tell you, I'm not a big
backs guy. However, I've had COVID like three times, maybe
four times. I mean the shots, the vaccines, the pneumonia.
(15:00):
And there's one other one that I oh RSV. Is
that what I haven't had RSV yet? But there's shingles. Shingles, yes,
because I saw my mother and my mother in law
have shingles, and I'm a baby, I would cry, so
I wasn't going to chance that. By the way, I
(15:22):
did get shingles after the double show. Oh no, there
were two spots and they were very painful, but that's
another story. It didn't debilitate me, and it's probably because
of the vaccine. You had some stories, you had some
(15:44):
thoughts about vaccines.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yes, So first Mark, there is a fundamental difference between
the vaccine we had for polio and the more recent vaccines,
which are based on a new technology, RNA technology. So
the vaccine against polio was the way that that was
(16:08):
created was by injecting animals with a what's called an
attenuated polio. So it's it's or people different flavors of that,
but that's a form of polio that can't cause the disease,
but you build antibodies against it. And so that's what
we had. And I'll tell you what, of any of
(16:29):
the childhood vaccines, the one that I'm most convinced about
is polio vaccine because you may have had friends and
I certainly had friends who did live through polio, but
then later when in their sixties, it came back it's
called a current polio, and they couldn't hardly walk and
couldn't get around, and it was miserable for them. So
(16:52):
that's not an outcome that would have been predicted, but
it's one that was a favorable outcome if you took
the polio vaccine. In terms of the newer vaccines, for example,
the ones that were developed for COVID, they were developed
much much more quickly than the older vaccines because the
(17:15):
RNA technology enabled the vaccination of a person with a
system that would make the protein that raised antibodies that
a person raises antibodies to. That process took a month
rather than years to develop. And so is one very
(17:36):
positive thing about the FDA that I'd say is that
they approved on an emergency basis some of these COVID vaccines,
and that has been projected to have saved tens of
millions of lives. And I've looked and looked and looked,
and I can't find a documented case where COVID the
(17:59):
vaccination can cause death. And so I think that, you know,
things change, but that that was I think that was
a success story. You mentioned genetically modified organisms and food production,
and I'll tell you and I are one in sync
on that, I think, and I was bathed in round
(18:23):
up when I was a kid, But I think that
those the reason those have been developed is to optimize
crop production, simple, simple as that. And while it might
have seen. It seemed like a great thing at the time.
I think that that's not a great thing, and I
admire the countries that don't have it. I think that
(18:44):
another trend that's coming along, which I think is actually
really important, is what's called regenerative farming. So it's not
organic farming, but it's regenerative farming. Doesn't use any for
theer's no for a lot of products. I've got a
good friend here who has a big farm outside an arbor,
(19:06):
who is committed to this. And I do believe that
we've over the last twenty five years, we've developed our food.
Chemists have developed these foods that are ultra processed. Are
I don't know about you, but man, they are irresistible.
And I know, I.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Know you talk about the FDA and food. Within the
last two weeks, they finally said, okay, we're banning. I
can't remember which number it is. I think it was
twenty seven or one of the red dyes. One of
the red dyes. Why can't we use beet juice, guys,
I mean, let's face it, that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Well, I when I was doing my research training, I
had a good friend who was in chemistry ended up
going into food chemistry. Guy was really smart and we
talked over the years, and they are continually modifying food
to make it look more attractive, to make it taste
(20:10):
more attractive. This sweet spot between saltya and savory and sweet.
They've perfected that, and so it's it's not really a
mystery when you look at it from that direction. Why
so many people are obese in the United States. Because
these foods are cheap, because it doesn't cost anything to
make them, and they're addictive. And I think that that's
(20:35):
that's another area in food production. It's got control.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Potatotato chips, you know who can resive You know you
can eat just one when you go home tonight and
your wife calls you and says, Marshall's stop and pick
up a bag of lettuce.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Will you buy organic or will you buy just the regular? Well?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I generally buy the regular because because organic to me
is not as much different as regenerative. Now, our grocery
store doesn't offer regenerative vegetables, but I think I think
they will. My wife she when I come home, she says, okay,
give me your give me the register print out, and
(21:21):
she looks at things, say.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Why did you buy this?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Why did you buy that? So unless I got some
specials or something, you know, I'm in big trouble.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I get it. I get it. She gives your list
and I always add to it. You know, I'm walking
by and there's something on sale, or do you wish?
I haven't had that for a long time. We haven't
had a chance to talk about RFK, jue and crazy
(21:50):
over crazy. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be political,
but I just I guess I just was. I can't
he's not allowed in that. It's scary because I think
a lot of the science is good. I think we
(22:12):
need to look at it not differently this, you know,
the the both the sock and the saving vaccines. Yeah,
we're not patented. Why because that way the world could
use it. But we have paid billions and billions of
(22:35):
dollars to healthcare companies, to big pharma, which just ticks
me off. Anyway, we're at a time. Will come back,
Will you come back? I will set that up. I
really appreciate you and and your point of view. Doctor
(22:58):
Marshall rung Rungey, I got it. Takes me a time,
and we've been talking about vaccines we'll have a picture
of Marshall on our site, and a way to learn
more about the University of Michigan Medical School. Well, that
(23:19):
wraps up this edition of Late Night Health. Thank you
very much for tuning in. Have a great week, everybody,
take that walk, go around the block, jump on a treadmill,
and most importantly, have a healthy week. We'll see you
next time. Bye bye for nowh
Late Night Health continues. I'm Mark Gallan along with the
insane Daryl Wayne. We're going to go to the University
of Michigan. We're going to speak with the dean of
the medical school there. He's the CEO of Michigan Medicine
as well uh and president of Medical Affairs at the university.
We're going to be talking about vaccines. Are they good
(00:29):
or are they bad? Do we need them? Don't we
need them? His name is doctor Marshall and he spells
Marshall differently too rungy rungji rungky rungky rungky So you
told me to call you Marshall and I will. Are
vaccines in general good for us in Europe?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yes, in my opinion, vaccines are in general good for us.
There's there's a range of how how good and how
important they are. But I think it's really important to
remember when we talk about vaccines, we're not talking about
the individual. We're talking about public health, and we're talking
(01:12):
about with communicable diseases that we prevent their spread. And
there have been great successes with vaccines, as you know.
So I am a fan of vaccines. Now they get
criticized from time to time, there is a component of
our population who doesn't believe in vaccines, and so I
(01:36):
will tell you I do believe in vaccines.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
So I'm not a fan of like sixty five vaccines
before you're seven or eight years old so you can
go to school. I don't understand it. One of them
is for sexually transmitted diseases. It just it doesn't register
measle vaccines. Yeah, I know that people die measles. I
(02:01):
had measles, but I got measles as you did. I'm sure,
marsh your mom said, look, Billy down the street has measles,
go play with.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Him, right, That is exactly right, And I would I.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Just have to think that that's a better way of
developing an immunity to measles than getting a shot.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Well, I would say this mark if we could count
on that, I think that that would be true for
many childhood vaccinations. Chicken pox is another one. You know,
we went down the street to play with kids who
had chicken pox, and I remember having both chicken pox
and measles. You know, it's interesting to note that both
(02:48):
of those diseases, while they have serious consequences for children,
they're much more serious for adults. So if you don't
have immunity against measles or chicken pox, and you get
those when you're in your thirties or forties, they are
a severe disease. So the question is, in my mind,
(03:10):
I think that there are certain vaccines that it makes
sense to have mandatory vaccination that's really only in children.
And you might say, well, why is that. And let's
take measles as an example. So measles is making a
comeback in the United States because there's a significant portion
of the population that has not been vaccinated, and largely
(03:31):
it comes from other countries and where there aren't strong
vaccination programs, but it was essentially eradicated in the United
States using the vaccine program. And well, what's different now
than when you and I were young and we were
getting exposed by We're still yeah, we're still thank you. Park. Well,
(03:56):
what's different is we have large segments of the population
and who with new medications are living longer, but they
are immuno suppressed, so they're not able to handle these
infections as well.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
So if you let's say you take.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Somebody who's young person who has a malignancy and has
been on chemotherapy, they get measles, and that can be fatal,
or they get chicken box and that can be fatal.
And so an example that I think I gave you
when we were communicating was that we had an outbreak
(04:30):
in Michigan where there were children in a packed emergency
room setting, or maybe it was in a pediatric practice,
and a couple of the kids had measles, and that
ended up being a small but significant outbreak of measles
twenty or thirty people had there been people who were
(04:51):
unvaccinated and who had who might have been there for
medical reasons, who had immuno suppressed systems that put them
at risk. So it is this whole balance that I
think is is a difficult, difficult one to grab as
a concept to say, well, it's good for it may
(05:13):
may not be good for everybody in the population, but
it's especially good for some people in the population. So
is that enough reason to vaccinate? I think it is
for some diseases that I agree with what you said.
I don't think we ought to be having mandatory vaccinations
for many, many different vaccinations before kids in her school
in Michigan, which is similar to most states, you can't
(05:35):
start in public schools without having the basic vaccinations, not everything.
If the vaccinations for HPV, which is a sexually transmitted
disease that's happening in children, I didn't I didn't know
that was happening in children, but I just But the.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Other thing is that some of the new were vaccines. Okay,
and we're gonna I'm gonna put you on the spot.
I think the FDA is wrong on a lot of levels. Okay,
I think we need to reinvent the FDA. There's it. Uh,
(06:17):
it seems to me as a as a layperson, as
somebody who reports on this on a regular basis, there's
just a disconnect with the FDA. If there's money, something
gets approved and then people start dying and they pull it. Oops,
(06:40):
it's a little late. I mean, that's it. Just is.
I also think of things like genetically modified organisms. Okay,
you grow a lot of corn in Michigan. You're part
of the corn belt. Maybe not as much as Iowa,
but you do grow a significant amount absolutely of corn.
(07:01):
And genetically modified stuff. We don't have enough studies on
we don't know what it does. And I think it's
the same thing with vaccines. GMOs non GMOs are not
allowed in the European Union. They're sneaking them in now
(07:23):
as my understanding, but generally speaking they're not allowed. Why
there are things like round up okay, which my father
liberally used in our garden right in the sixties. It's
still being sold and in my opinion, shouldn't be. It's
(07:48):
even being put into food with the genetically modified organisms,
and I think there's a similarity between that and vaccines.
So thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Yeah, so let me start by talking about the FDA.
I think the FDA has done some good things, but
it's become a huge bureaucracy. But I think it makes
it difficult for decision making. So, for example, when a
new vaccine comes along or a new drug comes along,
(08:26):
they're expert panels, and the experts panels are made up
of physicians, pharmacists, others who have expertise in that particular area.
But like all committees, it's hard to get a consensus
out of that, and so I think a lot of
what we see from the FDA is bound by the
(08:48):
opinions of these experts. They call them in and they
get expert opinions, but I think that slows some approvals.
I think that I'll give you a couple of examples
where I think things went right or things went wrong.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
So I ask you to hold that thought. Okay, come back,
We'll take a break. When we come back, we'll continue that.
Our guest is doctor Marshall. He is the CEO of
Michigan Medicine, is a busy man. He is the dean
of the medical school. You didn't let me in, but
that's because I well.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I wouldn't hear you know, things would have been different.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Mark yes, right, and President of Medical Affairs at the
University of Michigan. I'm Mark Allen, along with the insane
Daryl Wayne the Doctor, and I will return in just
a couple of moments. His Late Night Help continues. Late
(09:54):
Night Help is proud of our partnership with the EBC,
the Evolutionary Business, so check them out at Ebcouncil dot com.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You're listening to Late Night Health with Mark Allen. The
show continues in a moment.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Recently, I met Jacqueline from Bright here in Los Angeles.
She gave me a hearing exam and then showed me
how to hear again with the new Signia of Pure
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Speaker 3 (11:14):
If you're listening to Late Night Health right now, you're
part of the growing target of baby boomers. Worth serving. Hi.
I'm Darryl Wayne, producer of Late Night Health, inviting you
to join the Late Night Health family. If you have
any business targeting the growing boomer market, Late Night Health
is the ideal advertising vehicle for you. From vitamins to insurance,
alternative health, the western style medicine. Late Night Health caters
(11:35):
to the growing population of those over forty years old.
This vibrant demographic has expendable income to fight aging, purchase travel,
take care of aging parents, or just have fun. Find
out about the advertising opportunities with late Night Health. Call
us at eight oh five three nine one zero three
zero eight. That's eight oh five three nine one o
three oh eight, or email us at info at latenighthealth
(11:58):
dot com. That's in at latenighthealth dot com. Join late
Night Health as we empower people to take charge of
their own healthcare. Call now at aight oh five three
nine one zero three zero eight. That's eight oh five
three nine one three eight.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it.
Words are a critical aspect of success. How do you
get your point across as a crucial part of what
makes anything sell? So do it. Write and hire a writer,
whether it's articles, blog posts, technical writings, website content, product descriptions,
or ghostwriting. Anything from a novel to a nonfiction book
about your navel. Contact Servett Hassan. If you wanted to sell,
(12:37):
write it right. Email Servett at Cervett at Cervette Hassan
dot com.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
It's time to tackle a tough topic, one that affects
us all. We're talking about sexism in the workplace. The
award winning Identifying the Elephant in the Room series is
back and ready to tackle some complicated communications issues again.
This spring, we're focusing on critical communication strategies in the
face of sexism. Join us as we hear from professionals
(13:05):
in the natural products industry who have valuable career lessons
to share and real world experience to discuss from all
sides of the elephant. It's time to have an honest
and open conversation about the impact of sexism in the
workplace and how we can make it better for everyone.
Identifying the Elephant in the Room series starts March sixteenth.
(13:27):
Register today at nisibox dot vfares dot com. That's I
ni ci vo x dot v fai r s dot
com and join the conversation to be part of the solution.
Late Night Health continues. I'm Mark Allen along with the
(13:47):
insane Darrow Wayne. We're talking with doctor Marshall Rungji RUNGI.
I think I got it closer. And he's the executive
ep for Medical Affairs at the University of Michigan. The
dean of the medical school didn't let me in, but
maybe you'll let me teach a class. I think I
could teach teach a really great communications course. And yep,
(14:11):
I agree. Four hours, it'll be over maybe five. I
talk a lot. You have some stories that I want
to get into. But first, we both took the sugar cube,
the polio sugar cube, right, Yeah, wasn't that kind of
(14:36):
vaccine different than what they're selling us now like COVID,
And I have to tell you, I'm not a big
backs guy. However, I've had COVID like three times, maybe
four times. I mean the shots, the vaccines, the pneumonia.
(15:00):
And there's one other one that I oh RSV. Is
that what I haven't had RSV yet? But there's shingles. Shingles, yes,
because I saw my mother and my mother in law
have shingles, and I'm a baby, I would cry, so
I wasn't going to chance that. By the way, I
(15:22):
did get shingles after the double show. Oh no, there
were two spots and they were very painful, but that's
another story. It didn't debilitate me, and it's probably because
of the vaccine. You had some stories, you had some
(15:44):
thoughts about vaccines.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Yes, So first Mark, there is a fundamental difference between
the vaccine we had for polio and the more recent vaccines,
which are based on a new technology, RNA technology. So
the vaccine against polio was the way that that was
(16:08):
created was by injecting animals with a what's called an
attenuated polio. So it's it's or people different flavors of that,
but that's a form of polio that can't cause the disease,
but you build antibodies against it. And so that's what
we had. And I'll tell you what, of any of
(16:29):
the childhood vaccines, the one that I'm most convinced about
is polio vaccine because you may have had friends and
I certainly had friends who did live through polio, but
then later when in their sixties, it came back it's
called a current polio, and they couldn't hardly walk and
couldn't get around, and it was miserable for them. So
(16:52):
that's not an outcome that would have been predicted, but
it's one that was a favorable outcome if you took
the polio vaccine. In terms of the newer vaccines, for example,
the ones that were developed for COVID, they were developed
much much more quickly than the older vaccines because the
(17:15):
RNA technology enabled the vaccination of a person with a
system that would make the protein that raised antibodies that
a person raises antibodies to. That process took a month
rather than years to develop. And so is one very
(17:36):
positive thing about the FDA that I'd say is that
they approved on an emergency basis some of these COVID vaccines,
and that has been projected to have saved tens of
millions of lives. And I've looked and looked and looked,
and I can't find a documented case where COVID the
(17:59):
vaccination can cause death. And so I think that, you know,
things change, but that that was I think that was
a success story. You mentioned genetically modified organisms and food production,
and I'll tell you and I are one in sync
on that, I think, and I was bathed in round
(18:23):
up when I was a kid, But I think that
those the reason those have been developed is to optimize
crop production, simple, simple as that. And while it might
have seen. It seemed like a great thing at the time.
I think that that's not a great thing, and I
admire the countries that don't have it. I think that
(18:44):
another trend that's coming along, which I think is actually
really important, is what's called regenerative farming. So it's not
organic farming, but it's regenerative farming. Doesn't use any for
theer's no for a lot of products. I've got a
good friend here who has a big farm outside an arbor,
(19:06):
who is committed to this. And I do believe that
we've over the last twenty five years, we've developed our food.
Chemists have developed these foods that are ultra processed. Are
I don't know about you, but man, they are irresistible.
And I know, I.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Know you talk about the FDA and food. Within the
last two weeks, they finally said, okay, we're banning. I
can't remember which number it is. I think it was
twenty seven or one of the red dyes. One of
the red dyes. Why can't we use beet juice, guys,
I mean, let's face it, that's yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Well, I when I was doing my research training, I
had a good friend who was in chemistry ended up
going into food chemistry. Guy was really smart and we
talked over the years, and they are continually modifying food
to make it look more attractive, to make it taste
(20:10):
more attractive. This sweet spot between saltya and savory and sweet.
They've perfected that, and so it's it's not really a
mystery when you look at it from that direction. Why
so many people are obese in the United States. Because
these foods are cheap, because it doesn't cost anything to
make them, and they're addictive. And I think that that's
(20:35):
that's another area in food production. It's got control.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Potatotato chips, you know who can resive You know you
can eat just one when you go home tonight and
your wife calls you and says, Marshall's stop and pick
up a bag of lettuce.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Will you buy organic or will you buy just the regular? Well?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I generally buy the regular because because organic to me
is not as much different as regenerative. Now, our grocery
store doesn't offer regenerative vegetables, but I think I think
they will. My wife she when I come home, she says, okay,
give me your give me the register print out, and
(21:21):
she looks at things, say.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Why did you buy this?
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Why did you buy that? So unless I got some
specials or something, you know, I'm in big trouble.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
I get it. I get it. She gives your list
and I always add to it. You know, I'm walking
by and there's something on sale, or do you wish?
I haven't had that for a long time. We haven't
had a chance to talk about RFK, jue and crazy
(21:50):
over crazy. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be political,
but I just I guess I just was. I can't
he's not allowed in that. It's scary because I think
a lot of the science is good. I think we
(22:12):
need to look at it not differently this, you know,
the the both the sock and the saving vaccines. Yeah,
we're not patented. Why because that way the world could
use it. But we have paid billions and billions of
(22:35):
dollars to healthcare companies, to big pharma, which just ticks
me off. Anyway, we're at a time. Will come back,
Will you come back? I will set that up. I
really appreciate you and and your point of view. Doctor
(22:58):
Marshall rung Rungey, I got it. Takes me a time,
and we've been talking about vaccines we'll have a picture
of Marshall on our site, and a way to learn
more about the University of Michigan Medical School. Well, that
(23:19):
wraps up this edition of Late Night Health. Thank you
very much for tuning in. Have a great week, everybody,
take that walk, go around the block, jump on a treadmill,
and most importantly, have a healthy week. We'll see you
next time. Bye bye for nowh
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