November 20, 2023 • 42 mins
Episode 163 of the Leader of Learning Podcast features an interview with Alex Valencic (@alextvalencic), a professional learning coordinator in Freeport, Illinois. Alex joins us to delve into the world of professional development in education. We discuss the shift towards personalized and teacher-driven learning, sharing examples from Alex's district. The conversation also explores the importance of learning from and observing other teachers, as well as the unique challenges faced by introverted leaders. Alex's insights and personal experiences offer valuable perspectives on effective leadership and fostering an inclusive educational environment.
Full show notes and more information about this episode can be found at https://leaderoflearning.com/episode163.
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Full show notes and more information about this episode can be found at https://leaderoflearning.com/episode163.
Download my free guide “The Teacher’s Guide to Becoming a School Leader” at https://leaderoflearning.com/guide
Purchase “The Transformational Leader’s Reflection Guide” at https://leaderoflearning.com/journal
Download my FREE eBook “Lead to Inspire Growth” at https://leaderoflearning.com/ebook
Enroll in my free course “Unlock Your Leadership Potential” at https://leaderoflearning.com/freecourse
Sign up for my email newsletter at https://leaderoflearning.com/news
SUBSCRIBE ON YOUTUBE at https://youtube.com/drdankreiness to watch inspirational and educational videos about leadership and digital learning
Consider Becoming an Official Sponsor - https://leaderoflearning.com/press-kit
Talk Studio is my recording platform of choice for video, audio, and even live streaming. For more information about Talk Studio and to receive 20% off your first billing cycle on ANY paid plan you sign up for, visit https://leaderoflearning.com/melon
Gear that I use and love to recommend:
Mirrorless camera (Sony zv-1) - https://amzn.to/3zdxKlR
Main microphone (Shure SM7b) - https://amzn.to/3Mi5SzE
Backup microphone (Shure MV7) - https://amzn.to/38M9Vqv
Budget microphone (Samson Q2u) - https://amzn.to/38MeukB
Audio Interface (Focusrite Scarlett 2i2) - https://amzn.to/3xdocWq
Wireless lavalier microphone (AnkerWork M650) - https://amzn.to/3TUlsXN
Key lights 2pk (Sokani P25) - https://amzn.to/3mcNq0X
Ring light (Neewer 18”) - https://amzn.to/3tfnB46
Budget studio lights (Neewer Dimmable LED 2pk) - https://amzn.to/392g16i
To leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/leader-of-learning/id1243021772
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So you're a leader of Learning right, But are you an introvert or maybe
shy or a little quiet at times? Can you still lead and do your
job effectively? That's what we're goingto discuss in this episode Stick around.
Welcome to the Leader of Learning podcast. I'm your host, doctor Dan Krinis,
(00:20):
and this is where I help educatorsgrow their impact as instructional leaders because
my research and leadership experiences have ledme to understand that someone like you,
regardless of your role or your title, can have a tremendous impact on your
organization. I chat with inspiring guestswho are truly making an impact as instructional
(00:41):
leaders. Whether this is your firsttime listening or you come back for more,
I hope you've subscribed to this showon your preferred podcast app so you
don't miss any of the great episodes, topics, or guests. Anyway,
I'm so glad you've tuned in.Now let's get started. Welcome back once
(01:07):
again, Leader of Learning too.What is the first interview episode that we
have had in a while. I'mso glad you're joining us, and I'm
so glad that you've come back tous after a hiatus that we took here
in the summer months and early inthe fall, but we're back, and
I just wanted to start out bysaying that if you do enjoy, and
(01:27):
maybe you have enjoyed for a whilethe content that's shared on this podcast,
but you're not yet connected to theLeader of Learning community, please go ahead
and sign up for my email newsletter. The easiest way to get there is
by going to Leader of Learning dotcom, slash news or following the links
(01:47):
in the show notes below, oron my website. If you follow the
Leader of Learning newsletter already, Ireally appreciate it. But if you're not
yet, go ahead and click thelink or get to the the web page
that I just listed and join usthere for some really great content and of
course updates about what's going on withLeader of Learning and the amazing content that
(02:10):
gets shared. As for this episode, we have a very special guest joining
us. Alex Valencik is an educator, former small business owner, and devoted
advocate for professional development with a wealthof experience in a variety of education roles.
Alex currently serves as the Professional LearningCoordinator in Freeport, Illinois. During
(02:32):
our conversation, Alex and I delveinto some interesting stuff about the ever evolving
landscape of professional development and education.We're going to explore the need for a
shift away from traditional sit and getmodels toward more personalized and teacher driven learning
experiences. We're also going to discussthe powerful impact of teacher to teacher learning,
(02:58):
emphasizing the value of obs and learningfrom one another's classrooms. Alex even
shares insights from a book he's currentlyreading about job embedded professional development and the
importance of creating space and time forteachers to learn and grow together. Finally,
Alex brings a valuable perspective to thetable as we explore the topic of
(03:20):
introverted leadership. We discuss how introvertscan thrive as leaders and leverage skills such
as listening, inclusivity, reflection,seeking consensus, and mediating conflict. Throughout
our conversation, Alex's passion for supportingeducators really shines through. He shares stories
of his own journey from overcoming selfconsciousness about public speaking to his commitment to
(03:44):
creating safe environments where all voices areheard and valued. If you're an educator
seeking fresh ideas, professional growth anda network of like minded individuals. This
episode is for you. Get readyto be inspired, empowered, and equipped
with the tools to become a trueleader of learning. So coming up after
these messages, stay tuned in aswe embark on this educational journey with Alex
(04:09):
Valencik all right, Leader of Learning. Welcome back to this episode and welcome
back to the show again. Tooka little hiatus, but we are back
now and bringing on the first guestin a while, Alex Valencik. Alex
Valencik, sorry, Alex and Ihave gotten to know each other quite a
(04:29):
bit over the last couple of years, especially with the connections we have to
to Teach Better team participating in theTeach Better conference, the admin mastermind various
Voxer and Facebook groups, and someonewho I think is very, very knowledgeable
about a lot of things education andwe're going to get into that in just
a minute. Let me tell youa little bit though about Alex. He
(04:53):
is. He does it all.He's an educator, former small business owner,
boy scout leader, volunteer, drugprevent specialist, and as he calls
it, a geek of all things. He's worked as a substitute teacher,
a fourth grade teacher, curriculum coordinator, and since July of twenty twenty one,
he's been serving as the Professional LearningCoordinator in Freeport, Illinois. And
(05:16):
there you go. I think bothof us share that passion for professional development
and supporting and coaching teachers. SoAlex, welcome to the show. That
was a lot, But if there'sanything else I missed, please go ahead
and let the listeners know a littlebit more about who you are. Oh,
I mean, I think that definitelyguys catch a lot of it.
I'm excited to be on the show. I am a massive consumer of podcasts
(05:41):
and a few years ago I gotonto a podcast in first one actually it's
actually the Teach Better Talk podcast wayback twenty nineteen, I think what's when.
I was on it for getting readyfor the Teach Better nineteen conference way
back when. And I've been ona bunch of podcast since then, but
I've listened to so many of them, and yours it's wanted that caught my
(06:04):
attention, and I've listened to everysingle one of the episodes. So I'm
excited to be a part of itand just kind of connect with other people
and talk about leading learning. We'llsee where the conversation goes, you know,
speaking of seeing where the conversation goes, I think you actually led me
into a question that I wasn't expectingto ask you, but I really want
to. So you're a let memake sure I get the title right,
(06:27):
A professional learning coordinator. And youjust mentioned how you really love consuming podcasts,
and I do too. Obviously,I love consuming them. I love
creating this one. And what Ireally love about podcasts because I listen to
mostly educational podcasts, but not exclusively, what I love about them is it
allow they allow me to be thatlifelong leader and to consume and gain professional
(06:53):
learning and personal learning in ways thatare not so traditional. So I guess
I wanted to start there and askyou why it is you value gaining professional
learning in these sort of non traditionalways, and maybe what else you do
to develop your own learning, andwhat you would recommend to teachers, especially
(07:16):
new teachers, when it comes toprofessional learning, maybe outside of the traditional
stuff that they get from their schoolsand their districts. So you know,
when it comes to like podcasts especially, it was something that my initial introduction
to podcasts was a lot of hobbyfocused ones to hear about like the true
(07:40):
crime stories or sports podcast or likethe business self help ones, and or
there would be ones like kind ofthe long form storytelling. Episodic storytelling is
like, I don't really care aboutany of that. But it was back
about twenty sixteen, when I startedinterviewing for leadership jobs all up and down
the state of Illinois. I'dized likesometimes I'd have like a three four hour
(08:01):
drive to get to a job interview, because Illinois is the stage, just
like a very long state and akind of a wide state, and so
to have these long drives. Andone time I was like, I should
look up some education podcasts, solike I can just have some very fresh
ideas in my mind when I getinto an interview, and that's really what
God Me started with it. Andthat's something I love about them is you're
(08:24):
getting ideas that are very fresh,Like you're not waiting for someone to get
it published in a book, whichyou can put in a book proposal,
get it accepted by a publisher,and it could be two three years sometimes
before it actually hits the market,or like even blogging and like journal articles,
sometimes there's a delay. It feelslike podcasts are very much a real
time format of learning, and italso allows me to connect with a huge
(08:48):
number of people very quickly. Muchalmost every time I listened to a podcast,
I find some way to connect withwhoever that guest was, and of
course the person who's hosting the podcast. It's just it's interesting in my role
the number of times someone they'll aquestion will come up about needing some support
and providing professional learning on a topic, and I'll be like, oh,
(09:11):
hey, there's this person that Iknow that we could reach out to.
And it happens a lot, andsomeone's like, how do you know all
these people? I'm like, well, combination of listening to podcasts, reading
a lot of books, and myconnections with the Teach Better team, which
you mentioned, like I feel likealmost everyone I know in education has converged
in the Teach Better team. Butit's I guess to get to that question
(09:31):
though, like why podcast is aform of learning, It's just it's much
more raw than other things, Likeit's it's hard for people to filter themselves
and stript themselves as much when they'redoing a podcast, and I really appreciate
that side of it, even thoughit's it's not something that you can get
like professional development credits when you're lookingat like license renewal. But to me,
(09:54):
that's a big part of it isthat professional learning is not just about
getting those credits that you can submitfor renewing the license, but it's about
growing yourself as an educator, asa leader, and growing your network to
be able to better support students,teachers, families, whoever it is you're
trying to work with. This podcastis a proud member of the Teach Better
(10:16):
podcast Network, Better Today, BetterTomorrow, and the podcast to get you
there. Explore more podcasts at wwwdot Teach Beetter podcastnetwork dot com. Now
let's get back to the episode.That's awesome, actually believe it or not.
In response to what you mentioned aboutgaining professional credits or continuing continuing education
(10:37):
credits, there was at one time, I don't know if it still exists,
there's an educator named doctor Randall Sampson, and there was an actual accredited
graduate program that would give you creditfor things like listening to podcasts and participating
in Twitter chats and some of thesereally non traditional professional learning opportunities. I'll
(11:00):
have to reach out to Randall.I haven't I haven't heard from him in
a while see if that still exists. Speaking of not really connecting with people
for a while, you mentioned beingconnected as an educator through social media,
and you know organizations like teach Better. The first one that I really used
to connect to educators and really branchout in terms of my own professional learning
(11:26):
actually was Edgy Match. And Iwant to get a little vulnerable here for
a minute, but I want toask you your opinion too. I feel
that in twenty twenty three, aswe're recording this, we are not as
connected. I don't feel or atleast personally, I don't feel as connected
as I once did back in liketwenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. And I
(11:48):
don't know why. It could bethe pandemic, It could be stress and
burnout has gone way up. Itcould be that Twitter slash x is not
quite the same as it used tobe. I'm not sure. I have
felt, though, like it's beenharder and harder to keep connected with educators
(12:09):
that I once did. And I'mwondering do you feel that too, or
I guess is it just me?Now? There's I think there's a small
group of educators I've been able tomaintain that connection with and it's taken a
lot more effort on my part tokeep that going. Like I'm in a
couple of boxer groups. One ofthem is with edging Match, and I
(12:31):
know there's edging Match, like Ithink you know Sarah, She's got a
lot of different things going on withthat organization, and I think they have
multiple boxer groups, but the oneI'm in, I feel like sometimes it
may only be like three or fourmaybe five people who are actually contributing to
it, and then like it'll justgo silent for a while and then someone
(12:52):
will pop in with a question andyou'll get a bit of activity and then
disappears. I say that happen withFacebook groups. I feel like for me
personally, like the changes that havehappened with Twitter X, Like I can't
just call it X. A goodfriend Carly Spina, who she does a
lot of PD. She shares inone of her sessions and I was just
(13:13):
in a workshop session there about aweek ago that someone asks me, no
social media you're on and she risesvery quickly that you can't be like,
oh yeah, I'm on X,because that just has a very like different
connotation when you say that. Soit's like I will continue to call it
Twitter, sometimes call it Twitter X. But the changes that have happened in
that platform, I'm saying just thelast year or so, I feel like
(13:35):
educators have just left and haven't founda new home to connect with each other
as easily as you could before.So yeah, it is a lot more
difficult to keep those connections. Butalso it's a lot more difficult to make
new connections with people because pretty muchall the other platforms you have to know
the person to be able to connectwith them. You can't just like,
(13:58):
well, I love about Twitter,you could search a hashtag and just immediately
connect with a huge number of people, and those aren't gone. A lot
of the platforms are the ones whohave You still have to be connected with
people in order to use them.So yeah, I think in some ways
it has been really hard to keepgrowing and connecting with that PLN. Yeah,
I don't know why. I think. I do think a lot of
(14:22):
it has to do with you know, Twitter, slash x used to be
that place where we all went toconnect and do the chats and and you
know, really stay up on thelatest goings on, and I just feel
like it's been it's been different,it's been harder. Anyway. I want
(14:43):
to switch gears a little bit becauseI know that one of the things that
you mentioned to me recently, thatyou've been kind of studying more and looking
into more is a topic that Ifind pretty fascinating because I think I can
sort of see myself fitting in inthis area. But tell us a little
bit more about what you've been studyingand learning when it comes to people who
(15:09):
are more introverted as leaders, so, in other words, like leadership through
the lens of people who are moreintroverted and I guess not quite as outgoing
and what's the word I'm looking for, charismatic. Yeah, So I think
you mentioned in my introduction one ofthe things I do is I'm a volunteer
(15:31):
drug prevention specialist, and I thinkmost people are like, have no idea
what that actually means. There's anorganization here in Illinois. It's the Sapling
Good Mainteen Institute. It's a youthleadership program that has a focus on drug
consubstance abuse prevention. And I've beenpart of that program since nineteen ninety nine,
so it's been a huge part ofmy life for more than half my
(15:52):
lifetime, and they have a summercamp each year, so you get hundreds
of like middle school and high schoolstudents together on a college campus for a
week to learn how to grow theirskills as leaders. But there's a lot
of those very stereotypical summer campy typethings like the rock is loud cheers,
(16:15):
the songs that are really goofy andridiculous, and it's very loud and boisterous,
and there's a lot of effort tolike try to get everyone to engage
in these energizers, to break outof shells. And I realized a few
years ago that that's really pushing amodel of leadership being extraversion. And I'd
look around the groups and I startedworking with the middle school students who were
(16:37):
attending. I was a lot ofthem were introverted and they weren't comfortable participating
in the games, the activities,the songs, the cheers. It's not
that they weren't interested in the program, that just wasn't a way for them
to feel energized. And it reallygot me thinking, like where what is
the role for lead? What isthe role for or introverts in leadership?
(17:02):
Myself, I am a legitimate Ambivert. When I was doing my graduate studies
in leadership, we had to dolike every single personality test known demand in
one of our classes, and everysingle time on the introversion extroversion scale,
I was like exactly fifty percent inthe middle. So for me, it's,
(17:22):
you know, there are times whenI need to be around other people
to connect with them and get energizedfrom their presence, and there's other times
I'm like, you know, Ineed to go into a quiet space to
have time to reflect, to ponderand kind of re energize and recharge in
that way. So I started diggingmore into this idea of what does it
mean for an introvert to get theirenergy in the first place? And whereise
(17:47):
that first and foremost, there's thismisunderstanding that introverts are people who are just
shy and anti social and don't wantpeople. And we have this heavy influence
for movies going back, you know, I when I did a workshop on
this, I use the example likeeven like Greece the musical, The whole
overarching plot of this show is thisgirl Sandy, who's clearly an introvert,
(18:11):
needs to be fixed to become anextrovert. And and just goes downhill from
there with all these movies in popularculture. So it's like, Okay,
how do we tap into those skills? What are the skills that introverts have
that help them succeed as a leader. And I turned to work from like
Susan Kin, who she wrote thatbook Quiet and then she wrote a book
(18:32):
specifically for kids about quiet Power,and she just goes through like, here
are the traits that introverts have,and there's some of those really big ones
that I think about. It's likethe idea of like, introverts very very
broadly speaking, are very good listeners. They tend to be inclusive and reflective
and want to have environments that aresafe for all voices to contribute. And
(18:56):
there's usually this trait of introverts ofwanting to take time to observe and seek
consensus to mediate conflict. And it'snot that extroverts can't do those things,
but those are traits that are morecommon for introverts. So when you think
about in school leadership, when we'retrying to bring about change, you can
have that charismatic leader who goes outand gets everyone excited, on fire,
(19:18):
ready to go. But sometimes it'snice to have that leader who's more in
the background, leading from behind,making sure all the voices are heard and
giving an opportunity for everyone to reflecton what they're doing. And that's what
I've been focusing my work and havedone a couple of workshops on this now
(19:40):
is just bringing this idea to theforefront and inviting others who feel introverted to
tap into their own leadership skills.Now point out that one of the first
things I learned the very first timeI did that workshop is that I'm very
used to getting feedback from attendees asI'm presenting you from their facial expressions,
(20:00):
their verbal expressions. Introverts are bringingit all in, they're internalizing if they're
thinking about, which means their facesare usually like just deadpan. And I
remember the first time I did thatworkshop, I was like, I have
no idea if they're like excited aboutthis, if they're like accepting, or
they're just like, what's this guytalking about? He's just completely office rockers,
(20:22):
And it's like, I have noidea how I'm supposed to e gauge
the audience when my entire audience areintroverts who, by nature are not going
to express things outwardly. And thenI got the feedback and I looked through
it and it was all overwhelmingly superpositive, and I'll just share it as
in aside. The best piece offeedback I got from that session, though,
(20:44):
actually had nothing to do with thesession topic. It was just a
very short sentence that said, youhave a good speaking voice. And for
me that was huge because I receivedspeech therapy services from kindergarten all the way
until eighth grade and have always beenvery self conscious about the idea of speaking
in public. And then it's like, you know, I need to let
(21:04):
my voice be heard, even thoughit's something that I'm always very nervous about,
and to have someone give me thatfeedback and be like you have a
great delivery, Like your speaking voiceis wonderful. We enjoy listening to you,
but more importantly, we like hearingthe ideas you share. I want
to help other people feel comfortable doingthat. So I'm going to be doing
a conference session in February. AndI actually went to one of the teacher
(21:27):
leaders in my district and it's like, hey, you're an introvert, right,
He's like, oh yeah, absolutely. I was like I wanted to
come to this conference with me andhelp present on this topic, and he
was like, that's really scary.I'm like, I'm going to be there
beside you the whole time, andhe's like, all right, let's do
it, and we're going to sojust it's exciting to see ways that we
can tap into the quiet leaders amongus. You said a lot of really
(21:52):
fascinating things, and as you weretalking, I was thinking a couple of
things. First of all, Ithink anybody listening to you when you go
through kind of the descriptions of anintrovert and an ambrovert and an extrovert,
like they're kind of self reflecting alittle bit. And I think for me,
I'm right there with you. I'min the middle. You know.
(22:15):
I love going to conferences and gettingtogether with educators and people who I've barely
met in person before. Like you, you know, we know of each
other, but we've only met inperson one time, and even then it
was very brief. And I thinkyou were working more at the conference,
and you know, you kind ofwere doing your own thing. But like
(22:37):
as you mentioned too, in termsof introverts, just kind of taking a
step back and like soaking it allin. And it also got me thinking
now that I'm bringing the podcast backaround, it's been about four years,
almost to the day, back intwenty nineteen. In November, I put
out episode fifty five of the podcastwith a guest, Chrissy Romano Arabido,
(22:59):
and she wrote quiet Kids Count,and it was a little bit more focused
on as teacher classroom teachers, notforgetting about those introverted students, the ones
who aren't always raising their hands,the ones who were kind of you know,
off to the side, or ormaybe not succeeding as much as you'd
want them to in cooperative learning activitiesand group activities. But but you know,
(23:25):
so anyway, if you're listening tothis and you haven't checked out that
episode, it's been it's been awhile four years, but you know,
that could be something you check outas well. But in terms of introverts
as leaders, I really do findthat fascinating. And I'll tell you a
quick story, uh, you know, Alex and maybe my listeners remember too,
that I became an assistant principal afew a couple it's been a couple
(23:49):
of years now, and it didn'tlast very long. And and one of
the things that happened to me thatdidn't make me very comfortable. And given
this conversation about introversion and all thatstuff, my principle Essentially he didn't flat
out ask me to, but hewas basically telling me that I needed to
(24:12):
have a bigger personality, be louderin the hallways, you know, in
terms of making sure the kids weregoing in the right direction and doing the
right things. And I kind ofwanted to tell him, like, that's
not really me, And I hadtrouble understanding why having a bigger personality in
(24:33):
his opinion, so it seemed tome would make me a better leader in
his eyes, and I really hadI had some trouble with that because I
feel like I'm a good leader,but I also think that there are things
that I can do as a leader, like you said, without being so
charismatic. So I guess what Iwanted to ask you next is when you're
(24:56):
thinking about educators, maybe they're teacherswho are or are wont to be wanting
to be teacher leaders, or maybethey're actually aspiring to get into more formal
leadership positions. If you could bemaybe a little more specific in terms of
thinking about and giving some advice forteachers who are introverted or lean more toward
(25:19):
being an introvert, but yet theyhave these leadership qualities or ambitions. What
are things that they might want tothink about or can do to kind of,
you know, really lead like theywant to. So I'm going to
first and foremost respond to like thatidea of you know, in order to
be a leader in a building andyou have this big presence is I'm going
(25:41):
to go back to Susan Kine anda quote that she shares from Mahatma Gandhi
in a gentle way, you canshake the world that you don't have to
make that change by being big andboisterous. I will always remember a teacher,
she was truly a master teacher,who she had retired and I took
over her classroom. She had taughtin the same classroom for like twenty five
(26:04):
years. There was someone who washired after me, who was there for
like two years, and I camein. She would substitute and I never
once heard her raise her voice remotely. She just had a very soft,
gentle, firm voice. Students alwayslistened to her like every time. There
was never any doubt that she wasable to command a room without being loud
(26:29):
and boisterous, and it was justpart of no. I don't know exactly
what it was that she had abouther, but you could see in her
there was a confidence in herself.And I think that's maybe the big thing
is for a leader who feels introvertedis feel confident in who you are and
what you have to contribute. Don'ttry to be someone else, because especially
(26:52):
working in a school, kids theysee right through that, like they immediately
tell when you're trying to be someoneelse. So it's being who you are
authentically one hundred percent, and youknow it's also when it's like when you're
looking for those roles I frequently encouragelike student teachers and others who I may
(27:14):
be working with when it comes toapplying that you're interviewing the people who are
interviewing you also, and it's nothiding that personality, and it's being able
to promote those traits you have thatyou're there to help build consensus, to
help others be reflective, to givethe opportunities for every voice to have a
(27:37):
share. Are there times when yes, maybe you are going to have to
use that louder voice to be heardbecause it's in a busy hallway and there's
lots of kids going by. Maybe, but you can also be very quiet
as you do that. I love. There's a comic I see sometimes when
it's like they talk about you know, your mom yells your full name,
(27:57):
but it's even worse when she's justleans in and whispers, because that's when
you're like, oh, I'm ina lot of trouble now, because it's
like that suddenly changing the tempo.That is a great way to be able
to lead in take command a situationis when things are getting loud and getting
raucous, using that quiet voice toget everyone's attention. It may not be
(28:19):
as quick, but it's still justas impactful. So I think it's just
really recognizing who you are and whatyou have to bring to the table.
And maybe it's also being like,hey, maybe I'm not the best person
to be in the lunch room totry to quiet a cafeteria with five hundred
kids. Maybe I'm not the bestperson for that specific role, which me
(28:41):
is part of you you mentioned likebeing an assistant principle. I think there
are times we really as a systemneed to re evaluate what we think of
the role of the assistant principle aslike, why is the assistant principle always
have to be the disciplinary and theone who's handing out the punishment and the
consequences. Why can't the assistant principlebe the one who is leading professional learning
(29:03):
and you know, guiding the PLCmeetings while the principal is the one who
is going into the cafeteria and atthe like the bus drop offline. Like
you know, it's I don't knowwho decided that those roles were so clear
cut that that's what you have todo when you get that job. I
feel like that's an episode for adifferent day. But you bring up a
(29:25):
really good point, especially because youknow, I did live that life of
an assistant principle for a little while, and I still you know, we
talked about being connected before. Ibelong to at least one Facebook group that's
really all about the assistant principal position, And quite honestly, I've seen so
many posts and comments and threads recently, and when I say recently, I
(29:51):
mean over the last couple of years, where people in those positions just feel
I don't want to say burned,out, but they have to wear so
many hats and and therefore put outfire. It feel like they have to
put out fires all day, everyday basically in the name of making sure
(30:12):
that they are helping to allow theprinciple to do more of the things you
mentioned before, being more of aninstructional leader. And I know and I've
felt this where assistant principles just don'tfeel like they're able to make that kind
of impact as an instructional leader asa as a more of a coach,
(30:33):
like a mentor, and you know, they have so much experience and knowledge
as well. Again, probably anepisode for a different day, but that's
a it's it's a that's a fascinatingtopic as well. As we wrap up,
I think one of the common threadsand themes throughout a lot of our
conversation tonight has been around growth anddevelopment, you know, professional development.
(31:00):
You know, you and I bothare in roles where we are helping other
educators develop themselves professionally. I guessI just wanted to ask you, like,
where are we in the state ofprofessional development. We talked a little
bit before about some sort of nontraditional ways that teachers can develop themselves.
You mentioned working with some newer teachersand maybe where we headed in terms of
(31:25):
really getting more specifically like the nextgeneration of educators prepared for what they are
facing. I think I've been verypleased over the last few years to see
that in general our school system,the structure seems to finally be recognizing that
(31:47):
everybody sitting and getting the same likePD at the same time in the same
way is very rarely the most effectiveway to deliver that professional learning. Now,
there are times when we need everybodyto hear the same message the same
time, the same way. Alot of those things have to do with
like legal compliance, and may notjust compliance, they're like legitimate safety issues
(32:13):
for students. Like I always usethe example when I talk about like blood
borne pathogen training. It is reallyimportant for every single person to understand like
the protocols for coming into contact withpotential bloodborn pathogens because it's a health and
safety issue. I get that,Like, yeah, everyone needs it.
Now do we need to take asmuch time delivering that. No, Like
(32:36):
there's a colleague of mine who's like, here it is in a nutshell.
If it's wet and sticky and notyours, don't touch it. Okay,
we've all got that. We agree, let's move on to the more impactful
learning. Like if the school ordistrict is introducing something new that everybody's going
to be implementing at the same time, Yeah, we need to get those
(32:57):
like get the ground level, makesure we're all all on the same page.
From my district, we are reimplementing professional learning communities. We did
it in the past and then itkind of got lost in the lost in
translation and we realized we weren't reallydoing PLCs. So we're like, let's
reboot this and let's make sure everyone'son the same page. Or what do
(33:19):
we even mean by PLC because somepeople think it means it's just a meeting
and others are like, no,it's a process of gathering together. But
there's that. But I think ingeneral we're moving away from that idea of
everybody sits and gets the same thing. And in my district, we've really
been trying to emphasize that. Inour institute days, those in service days
(33:44):
we are we set them up asessentially like one day conferences where we'll have
a keynote speaker who comes in andtheir whole intention is to really inspire everyone
and give them an invitation to takecharge of the work we're doing. But
then we'll have anywhere from like fiftyto sixty breakout sessions going on over the
(34:04):
course of the day for the fourhundred and fifty staff in the district who
are attending, and it's allowing themto choose what they need based on their
own professional goals, based on likeschool improvement plans. Sometimes it's a little
less choice, Like you know,as year we implemented a new ELA program
in our district and we're doing thePLC work elementary teachers, they didn't get
(34:28):
a lot of choice in what theywere doing because there were things that we
need to get them all on thesame page. No, we're doing that,
And I'm also seeing more of theteachers teacher directed professional learning things like
teachers saying, hey, I wentto a conference or I was listening to
a podcast and I heard this personand they did publish a book, and
(34:51):
we want to get copies of thatbook and read it together on our own.
Just yesterday, I had a teacherwho came up to me. We
had we have a group we're workingwith and we had gotten for all of
them who are participating in this cohorta copy of hatt these Visible Learning the
sequel, and at the end ofthem, one of them came up is
She's like, so I already gotthis book and I've already like marked it
(35:13):
up and highlighted sections, so ifsomeone else needs it, I don't need
a copy. And it's just like, how awesome is that that an educator
has taken their time to go outand just do that learning on their own,
like trying to put together things likeaffinity groups or like minded educators come
together. I see us moving moreand more in that direction where we're really
(35:37):
taking the voice of the teachers andacknowledging their expertise, their knowledge, those
who have experienced doing things, andsaying what can we do to help you
grow instead of just saying, allright, we have a PD day and
everybody's gonna do guided reading training,including the pe teachers who never in a
hundred million years are ever going todo anything with guided reading. We're going
(36:00):
to make you sit through the PDbecause we got to do something. So
I think we are moving that way, sometimes moving faster, sometimes moving slower,
but it looks like we're moving inthat direction of valuing the voice of
our professional staff. I agree.I'm glad you said that because just recently,
a few weeks ago, we hada full day PD day in my
(36:22):
district and they kind of modeled alot of what you were saying in terms
of almost like a one day conference. There was no keynote, but there
were two sessions in the morning forelementary, two sessions in the afternoon for
secondary staff to do those kind ofbreakout sessions. Now, we called it
an ED camp, and it wasn'treally because it wasn't totally participant driven.
(36:45):
They had educators from around the districtpropose sessions to present, so it was
a little more formal in terms ofthe sessions and the presentations, but there
was choice there. And it soundslike, although I I didn't see the
feedback directly, it sounds like therewas a lot of really positive feedback about
that style of PD, and soI think that you're right, at least
(37:09):
in my district, and it soundslike yours too. Heading in that direction
of you know, teachers helping otherteachers. One of the things that I
personally still want to see more ofis quite literally teachers helping teachers when it
comes to like learning walks or justkind of watching how other teachers do things.
(37:29):
I tell people all the time thatas a coach, an instructional coach,
one of my favorite things about myjob is that I get to learn
from watching how so many different teachersget to do things. And I wish
more classroom teachers would not just understandthe value behind that, but actually be
given the opportunity and take advantage ofthe opportunity to be able to learn from
(37:52):
the teacher across the hall, theteacher down the hall from them, because
I think that a lot of timeswe can learn so much much from one
another. I'm going to end there. If you have more to say,
I wouldn't mind if you edit somemore comments, but we're going to start
to wrap up here. You know, of course, as we end,
if you could also let listeners knowhow they can connect with you if necessary,
(38:15):
and if they want to learn moreabout any of the topics that we
discussed tonight. But Alex, Iwant to say that you know, and
I know that this interview was along time coming, but I really appreciate
your support of me, this brand, and this show, and of course
for coming on as a guest,So thank you very much. Yeah,
thank you for having me. Justa couple of final thoughts there. First
(38:37):
of all, like that space forteachers to see each other to do their
work. So I've been reading throughthem. Going to hold up for you.
It's this book Professional Development, WhatWorks by Sally Jay Zapaida, And
ninety percent of this book is abouthow that job embedded. Professional development means
we need to give space for teachersto do the learning together. Just yes,
(39:00):
I was at a school where ateacher came in to talk to a
principal and said, I need tobe able to go in and do observations
of a colleague and I can't justgive up my plan time every time.
And the principal said, put iton my calendar. I will go watch
your class. I will teach yourlesson while you go observe your colleague.
Because the principal's like, I knowhow to teach. I can do that,
(39:22):
and I would love to see thathappen more often. We're like the
school leaders. Whenever possible, theygo in and say, hey, we
don't have enough subs to cover,but I can provide that coverage. You
tell me what the kids are doingI'll go in, I'll keep I'll do
that read aloud, I'll do thatmath lesson, I'll do the you know,
the writing lesson that they're doing.I'll supervise while you go and observe
(39:44):
each other. So I think thatthat's definitely something we can do, and
I think that there's a lot ofroom for that. So just kind of
that parting thought. But yeah,I would love to connect with any of
your listeners and like say that I'mAlex Steve Lenzik on all the social media
plans patforms. I'm still on Twitter, I'm on Facebook, like I joined
(40:04):
blue Sky recently. I'm still notquite sure what's going on with Blue Sky.
I'm in threads and I wish thatthey had searchable hashtags because I think
that would make that a really valuableplatform. But pretty much, if you
type in the name Alex Ski Valentik, even if you misspell the last name,
you will still find me. Iregularly google myself to check and usually
the first thing that pops up isthe picture of me with my bright blue
(40:28):
shirt and my white bow tie anda vests. If you see the picture
of me with the bow tie,you know it's me. Got the thick
curly hair. You know, ifpeople are just listening to this, they
can't see me. But seriously,like it's the easiest way to find me.
It's just google the name and I'mgonna pop up. I love connecting
with educators. It's kind of myclosing things that I've started doing a lot
lately, is I let people knowthat I love and to appreciate each and
(40:51):
every single one of them. Andif there is anything at all I can
do to help with anything at all, please just ask Dan. I know
you know that I've made that offerto you several times. I think that's
actually how we finally got me onthe podcast. You're like, hey,
I've got an idea of what youcan do to help. I need a
guest. And I was like,all right, we got it. Yeah,
all right, Well I'm going towrap it up right there because I
(41:13):
really appreciate you, and I knowyou appreciate everyone else like you just said,
so, Alex, thank you verymuch for coming on here, for
giving us your time and giving usyour insights. Really appreciate it. Thank
you for having me. Well that'sit for this episode. Thank you so
much for listening. If you haven'tdone so yet, don't forget to subscribe
(41:36):
to this show on your favorite podcastapp. If you enjoy the content covered
on this show, I want toask you to do this one thing for
me. Please share it. Thebiggest favor you could ever do for me
is to please let others know aboutwhat I'm doing and how I'm helping educators
grow their impact as instructional leaders.I hope you can share this podcast with
(41:58):
other educators, leaders, or anyoneyou think would love listening and learning.
If you're interested in leaving a positiverating and review of this show, links
to do so or always in theshow notes for every episode. For more
information about me or this show,and to access the great content that I
share, please visit my website atLeader of Learning dot com. That's where
(42:20):
you can find my online courses,YouTube channel, blog, how to connect
with me on social media, andeven ways that you can support the show,
like donating or purchasing Leader of Learningmerchandise. Thanks again, and remember,
no matter who you are or whereyou are, you are a Leader of Learning
So you're a leader of Learning right, But are you an introvert or maybe
shy or a little quiet at times? Can you still lead and do your
job effectively? That's what we're goingto discuss in this episode Stick around.
Welcome to the Leader of Learning podcast. I'm your host, doctor Dan Krinis,
(00:20):
and this is where I help educatorsgrow their impact as instructional leaders because
my research and leadership experiences have ledme to understand that someone like you,
regardless of your role or your title, can have a tremendous impact on your
organization. I chat with inspiring guestswho are truly making an impact as instructional
(00:41):
leaders. Whether this is your firsttime listening or you come back for more,
I hope you've subscribed to this showon your preferred podcast app so you
don't miss any of the great episodes, topics, or guests. Anyway,
I'm so glad you've tuned in.Now let's get started. Welcome back once
(01:07):
again, Leader of Learning too.What is the first interview episode that we
have had in a while. I'mso glad you're joining us, and I'm
so glad that you've come back tous after a hiatus that we took here
in the summer months and early inthe fall, but we're back, and
I just wanted to start out bysaying that if you do enjoy, and
(01:27):
maybe you have enjoyed for a whilethe content that's shared on this podcast,
but you're not yet connected to theLeader of Learning community, please go ahead
and sign up for my email newsletter. The easiest way to get there is
by going to Leader of Learning dotcom, slash news or following the links
(01:47):
in the show notes below, oron my website. If you follow the
Leader of Learning newsletter already, Ireally appreciate it. But if you're not
yet, go ahead and click thelink or get to the the web page
that I just listed and join usthere for some really great content and of
course updates about what's going on withLeader of Learning and the amazing content that
(02:10):
gets shared. As for this episode, we have a very special guest joining
us. Alex Valencik is an educator, former small business owner, and devoted
advocate for professional development with a wealthof experience in a variety of education roles.
Alex currently serves as the Professional LearningCoordinator in Freeport, Illinois. During
(02:32):
our conversation, Alex and I delveinto some interesting stuff about the ever evolving
landscape of professional development and education.We're going to explore the need for a
shift away from traditional sit and getmodels toward more personalized and teacher driven learning
experiences. We're also going to discussthe powerful impact of teacher to teacher learning,
(02:58):
emphasizing the value of obs and learningfrom one another's classrooms. Alex even
shares insights from a book he's currentlyreading about job embedded professional development and the
importance of creating space and time forteachers to learn and grow together. Finally,
Alex brings a valuable perspective to thetable as we explore the topic of
(03:20):
introverted leadership. We discuss how introvertscan thrive as leaders and leverage skills such
as listening, inclusivity, reflection,seeking consensus, and mediating conflict. Throughout
our conversation, Alex's passion for supportingeducators really shines through. He shares stories
of his own journey from overcoming selfconsciousness about public speaking to his commitment to
(03:44):
creating safe environments where all voices areheard and valued. If you're an educator
seeking fresh ideas, professional growth anda network of like minded individuals. This
episode is for you. Get readyto be inspired, empowered, and equipped
with the tools to become a trueleader of learning. So coming up after
these messages, stay tuned in aswe embark on this educational journey with Alex
(04:09):
Valencik all right, Leader of Learning. Welcome back to this episode and welcome
back to the show again. Tooka little hiatus, but we are back
now and bringing on the first guestin a while, Alex Valencik. Alex
Valencik, sorry, Alex and Ihave gotten to know each other quite a
(04:29):
bit over the last couple of years, especially with the connections we have to
to Teach Better team participating in theTeach Better conference, the admin mastermind various
Voxer and Facebook groups, and someonewho I think is very, very knowledgeable
about a lot of things education andwe're going to get into that in just
a minute. Let me tell youa little bit though about Alex. He
(04:53):
is. He does it all.He's an educator, former small business owner,
boy scout leader, volunteer, drugprevent specialist, and as he calls
it, a geek of all things. He's worked as a substitute teacher,
a fourth grade teacher, curriculum coordinator, and since July of twenty twenty one,
he's been serving as the Professional LearningCoordinator in Freeport, Illinois. And
(05:16):
there you go. I think bothof us share that passion for professional development
and supporting and coaching teachers. SoAlex, welcome to the show. That
was a lot, But if there'sanything else I missed, please go ahead
and let the listeners know a littlebit more about who you are. Oh,
I mean, I think that definitelyguys catch a lot of it.
I'm excited to be on the show. I am a massive consumer of podcasts
(05:41):
and a few years ago I gotonto a podcast in first one actually it's
actually the Teach Better Talk podcast wayback twenty nineteen, I think what's when.
I was on it for getting readyfor the Teach Better nineteen conference way
back when. And I've been ona bunch of podcast since then, but
I've listened to so many of them, and yours it's wanted that caught my
(06:04):
attention, and I've listened to everysingle one of the episodes. So I'm
excited to be a part of itand just kind of connect with other people
and talk about leading learning. We'llsee where the conversation goes, you know,
speaking of seeing where the conversation goes, I think you actually led me
into a question that I wasn't expectingto ask you, but I really want
to. So you're a let memake sure I get the title right,
(06:27):
A professional learning coordinator. And youjust mentioned how you really love consuming podcasts,
and I do too. Obviously,I love consuming them. I love
creating this one. And what Ireally love about podcasts because I listen to
mostly educational podcasts, but not exclusively, what I love about them is it
allow they allow me to be thatlifelong leader and to consume and gain professional
(06:53):
learning and personal learning in ways thatare not so traditional. So I guess
I wanted to start there and askyou why it is you value gaining professional
learning in these sort of non traditionalways, and maybe what else you do
to develop your own learning, andwhat you would recommend to teachers, especially
(07:16):
new teachers, when it comes toprofessional learning, maybe outside of the traditional
stuff that they get from their schoolsand their districts. So you know,
when it comes to like podcasts especially, it was something that my initial introduction
to podcasts was a lot of hobbyfocused ones to hear about like the true
(07:40):
crime stories or sports podcast or likethe business self help ones, and or
there would be ones like kind ofthe long form storytelling. Episodic storytelling is
like, I don't really care aboutany of that. But it was back
about twenty sixteen, when I startedinterviewing for leadership jobs all up and down
the state of Illinois. I'dized likesometimes I'd have like a three four hour
(08:01):
drive to get to a job interview, because Illinois is the stage, just
like a very long state and akind of a wide state, and so
to have these long drives. Andone time I was like, I should
look up some education podcasts, solike I can just have some very fresh
ideas in my mind when I getinto an interview, and that's really what
God Me started with it. Andthat's something I love about them is you're
(08:24):
getting ideas that are very fresh,Like you're not waiting for someone to get
it published in a book, whichyou can put in a book proposal,
get it accepted by a publisher,and it could be two three years sometimes
before it actually hits the market,or like even blogging and like journal articles,
sometimes there's a delay. It feelslike podcasts are very much a real
time format of learning, and italso allows me to connect with a huge
(08:48):
number of people very quickly. Muchalmost every time I listened to a podcast,
I find some way to connect withwhoever that guest was, and of
course the person who's hosting the podcast. It's just it's interesting in my role
the number of times someone they'll aquestion will come up about needing some support
and providing professional learning on a topic, and I'll be like, oh,
(09:11):
hey, there's this person that Iknow that we could reach out to.
And it happens a lot, andsomeone's like, how do you know all
these people? I'm like, well, combination of listening to podcasts, reading
a lot of books, and myconnections with the Teach Better team, which
you mentioned, like I feel likealmost everyone I know in education has converged
in the Teach Better team. Butit's I guess to get to that question
(09:31):
though, like why podcast is aform of learning, It's just it's much
more raw than other things, Likeit's it's hard for people to filter themselves
and stript themselves as much when they'redoing a podcast, and I really appreciate
that side of it, even thoughit's it's not something that you can get
like professional development credits when you're lookingat like license renewal. But to me,
(09:54):
that's a big part of it isthat professional learning is not just about
getting those credits that you can submitfor renewing the license, but it's about
growing yourself as an educator, asa leader, and growing your network to
be able to better support students,teachers, families, whoever it is you're
trying to work with. This podcastis a proud member of the Teach Better
(10:16):
podcast Network, Better Today, BetterTomorrow, and the podcast to get you
there. Explore more podcasts at wwwdot Teach Beetter podcastnetwork dot com. Now
let's get back to the episode.That's awesome, actually believe it or not.
In response to what you mentioned aboutgaining professional credits or continuing continuing education
(10:37):
credits, there was at one time, I don't know if it still exists,
there's an educator named doctor Randall Sampson, and there was an actual accredited
graduate program that would give you creditfor things like listening to podcasts and participating
in Twitter chats and some of thesereally non traditional professional learning opportunities. I'll
(11:00):
have to reach out to Randall.I haven't I haven't heard from him in
a while see if that still exists. Speaking of not really connecting with people
for a while, you mentioned beingconnected as an educator through social media,
and you know organizations like teach Better. The first one that I really used
to connect to educators and really branchout in terms of my own professional learning
(11:26):
actually was Edgy Match. And Iwant to get a little vulnerable here for
a minute, but I want toask you your opinion too. I feel
that in twenty twenty three, aswe're recording this, we are not as
connected. I don't feel or atleast personally, I don't feel as connected
as I once did back in liketwenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. And I
(11:48):
don't know why. It could bethe pandemic, It could be stress and
burnout has gone way up. Itcould be that Twitter slash x is not
quite the same as it used tobe. I'm not sure. I have
felt, though, like it's beenharder and harder to keep connected with educators
(12:09):
that I once did. And I'mwondering do you feel that too, or
I guess is it just me?Now? There's I think there's a small
group of educators I've been able tomaintain that connection with and it's taken a
lot more effort on my part tokeep that going. Like I'm in a
couple of boxer groups. One ofthem is with edging Match, and I
(12:31):
know there's edging Match, like Ithink you know Sarah, She's got a
lot of different things going on withthat organization, and I think they have
multiple boxer groups, but the oneI'm in, I feel like sometimes it
may only be like three or fourmaybe five people who are actually contributing to
it, and then like it'll justgo silent for a while and then someone
(12:52):
will pop in with a question andyou'll get a bit of activity and then
disappears. I say that happen withFacebook groups. I feel like for me
personally, like the changes that havehappened with Twitter X, Like I can't
just call it X. A goodfriend Carly Spina, who she does a
lot of PD. She shares inone of her sessions and I was just
(13:13):
in a workshop session there about aweek ago that someone asks me, no
social media you're on and she risesvery quickly that you can't be like,
oh yeah, I'm on X,because that just has a very like different
connotation when you say that. Soit's like I will continue to call it
Twitter, sometimes call it Twitter X. But the changes that have happened in
that platform, I'm saying just thelast year or so, I feel like
(13:35):
educators have just left and haven't founda new home to connect with each other
as easily as you could before.So yeah, it is a lot more
difficult to keep those connections. Butalso it's a lot more difficult to make
new connections with people because pretty muchall the other platforms you have to know
the person to be able to connectwith them. You can't just like,
(13:58):
well, I love about Twitter,you could search a hashtag and just immediately
connect with a huge number of people, and those aren't gone. A lot
of the platforms are the ones whohave You still have to be connected with
people in order to use them.So yeah, I think in some ways
it has been really hard to keepgrowing and connecting with that PLN. Yeah,
I don't know why. I think. I do think a lot of
(14:22):
it has to do with you know, Twitter, slash x used to be
that place where we all went toconnect and do the chats and and you
know, really stay up on thelatest goings on, and I just feel
like it's been it's been different,it's been harder. Anyway. I want
(14:43):
to switch gears a little bit becauseI know that one of the things that
you mentioned to me recently, thatyou've been kind of studying more and looking
into more is a topic that Ifind pretty fascinating because I think I can
sort of see myself fitting in inthis area. But tell us a little
bit more about what you've been studyingand learning when it comes to people who
(15:09):
are more introverted as leaders, so, in other words, like leadership through
the lens of people who are moreintroverted and I guess not quite as outgoing
and what's the word I'm looking for, charismatic. Yeah, So I think
you mentioned in my introduction one ofthe things I do is I'm a volunteer
(15:31):
drug prevention specialist, and I thinkmost people are like, have no idea
what that actually means. There's anorganization here in Illinois. It's the Sapling
Good Mainteen Institute. It's a youthleadership program that has a focus on drug
consubstance abuse prevention. And I've beenpart of that program since nineteen ninety nine,
so it's been a huge part ofmy life for more than half my
(15:52):
lifetime, and they have a summercamp each year, so you get hundreds
of like middle school and high schoolstudents together on a college campus for a
week to learn how to grow theirskills as leaders. But there's a lot
of those very stereotypical summer campy typethings like the rock is loud cheers,
(16:15):
the songs that are really goofy andridiculous, and it's very loud and boisterous,
and there's a lot of effort tolike try to get everyone to engage
in these energizers, to break outof shells. And I realized a few
years ago that that's really pushing amodel of leadership being extraversion. And I'd
look around the groups and I startedworking with the middle school students who were
(16:37):
attending. I was a lot ofthem were introverted and they weren't comfortable participating
in the games, the activities,the songs, the cheers. It's not
that they weren't interested in the program, that just wasn't a way for them
to feel energized. And it reallygot me thinking, like where what is
the role for lead? What isthe role for or introverts in leadership?
(17:02):
Myself, I am a legitimate Ambivert. When I was doing my graduate studies
in leadership, we had to dolike every single personality test known demand in
one of our classes, and everysingle time on the introversion extroversion scale,
I was like exactly fifty percent inthe middle. So for me, it's,
(17:22):
you know, there are times whenI need to be around other people
to connect with them and get energizedfrom their presence, and there's other times
I'm like, you know, Ineed to go into a quiet space to
have time to reflect, to ponderand kind of re energize and recharge in
that way. So I started diggingmore into this idea of what does it
mean for an introvert to get theirenergy in the first place? And whereise
(17:47):
that first and foremost, there's thismisunderstanding that introverts are people who are just
shy and anti social and don't wantpeople. And we have this heavy influence
for movies going back, you know, I when I did a workshop on
this, I use the example likeeven like Greece the musical, The whole
overarching plot of this show is thisgirl Sandy, who's clearly an introvert,
(18:11):
needs to be fixed to become anextrovert. And and just goes downhill from
there with all these movies in popularculture. So it's like, Okay,
how do we tap into those skills? What are the skills that introverts have
that help them succeed as a leader. And I turned to work from like
Susan Kin, who she wrote thatbook Quiet and then she wrote a book
(18:32):
specifically for kids about quiet Power,and she just goes through like, here
are the traits that introverts have,and there's some of those really big ones
that I think about. It's likethe idea of like, introverts very very
broadly speaking, are very good listeners. They tend to be inclusive and reflective
and want to have environments that aresafe for all voices to contribute. And
(18:56):
there's usually this trait of introverts ofwanting to take time to observe and seek
consensus to mediate conflict. And it'snot that extroverts can't do those things,
but those are traits that are morecommon for introverts. So when you think
about in school leadership, when we'retrying to bring about change, you can
have that charismatic leader who goes outand gets everyone excited, on fire,
(19:18):
ready to go. But sometimes it'snice to have that leader who's more in
the background, leading from behind,making sure all the voices are heard and
giving an opportunity for everyone to reflecton what they're doing. And that's what
I've been focusing my work and havedone a couple of workshops on this now
(19:40):
is just bringing this idea to theforefront and inviting others who feel introverted to
tap into their own leadership skills.Now point out that one of the first
things I learned the very first timeI did that workshop is that I'm very
used to getting feedback from attendees asI'm presenting you from their facial expressions,
(20:00):
their verbal expressions. Introverts are bringingit all in, they're internalizing if they're
thinking about, which means their facesare usually like just deadpan. And I
remember the first time I did thatworkshop, I was like, I have
no idea if they're like excited aboutthis, if they're like accepting, or
they're just like, what's this guytalking about? He's just completely office rockers,
(20:22):
And it's like, I have noidea how I'm supposed to e gauge
the audience when my entire audience areintroverts who, by nature are not going
to express things outwardly. And thenI got the feedback and I looked through
it and it was all overwhelmingly superpositive, and I'll just share it as
in aside. The best piece offeedback I got from that session, though,
(20:44):
actually had nothing to do with thesession topic. It was just a
very short sentence that said, youhave a good speaking voice. And for
me that was huge because I receivedspeech therapy services from kindergarten all the way
until eighth grade and have always beenvery self conscious about the idea of speaking
in public. And then it's like, you know, I need to let
(21:04):
my voice be heard, even thoughit's something that I'm always very nervous about,
and to have someone give me thatfeedback and be like you have a
great delivery, Like your speaking voiceis wonderful. We enjoy listening to you,
but more importantly, we like hearingthe ideas you share. I want
to help other people feel comfortable doingthat. So I'm going to be doing
a conference session in February. AndI actually went to one of the teacher
(21:27):
leaders in my district and it's like, hey, you're an introvert, right,
He's like, oh yeah, absolutely. I was like I wanted to
come to this conference with me andhelp present on this topic, and he
was like, that's really scary.I'm like, I'm going to be there
beside you the whole time, andhe's like, all right, let's do
it, and we're going to sojust it's exciting to see ways that we
can tap into the quiet leaders amongus. You said a lot of really
(21:52):
fascinating things, and as you weretalking, I was thinking a couple of
things. First of all, Ithink anybody listening to you when you go
through kind of the descriptions of anintrovert and an ambrovert and an extrovert,
like they're kind of self reflecting alittle bit. And I think for me,
I'm right there with you. I'min the middle. You know.
(22:15):
I love going to conferences and gettingtogether with educators and people who I've barely
met in person before. Like you, you know, we know of each
other, but we've only met inperson one time, and even then it
was very brief. And I thinkyou were working more at the conference,
and you know, you kind ofwere doing your own thing. But like
(22:37):
as you mentioned too, in termsof introverts, just kind of taking a
step back and like soaking it allin. And it also got me thinking
now that I'm bringing the podcast backaround, it's been about four years,
almost to the day, back intwenty nineteen. In November, I put
out episode fifty five of the podcastwith a guest, Chrissy Romano Arabido,
(22:59):
and she wrote quiet Kids Count,and it was a little bit more focused
on as teacher classroom teachers, notforgetting about those introverted students, the ones
who aren't always raising their hands,the ones who were kind of you know,
off to the side, or ormaybe not succeeding as much as you'd
want them to in cooperative learning activitiesand group activities. But but you know,
(23:25):
so anyway, if you're listening tothis and you haven't checked out that
episode, it's been it's been awhile four years, but you know,
that could be something you check outas well. But in terms of introverts
as leaders, I really do findthat fascinating. And I'll tell you a
quick story, uh, you know, Alex and maybe my listeners remember too,
that I became an assistant principal afew a couple it's been a couple
(23:49):
of years now, and it didn'tlast very long. And and one of
the things that happened to me thatdidn't make me very comfortable. And given
this conversation about introversion and all thatstuff, my principle Essentially he didn't flat
out ask me to, but hewas basically telling me that I needed to
(24:12):
have a bigger personality, be louderin the hallways, you know, in
terms of making sure the kids weregoing in the right direction and doing the
right things. And I kind ofwanted to tell him, like, that's
not really me, And I hadtrouble understanding why having a bigger personality in
(24:33):
his opinion, so it seemed tome would make me a better leader in
his eyes, and I really hadI had some trouble with that because I
feel like I'm a good leader,but I also think that there are things
that I can do as a leader, like you said, without being so
charismatic. So I guess what Iwanted to ask you next is when you're
(24:56):
thinking about educators, maybe they're teacherswho are or are wont to be wanting
to be teacher leaders, or maybethey're actually aspiring to get into more formal
leadership positions. If you could bemaybe a little more specific in terms of
thinking about and giving some advice forteachers who are introverted or lean more toward
(25:19):
being an introvert, but yet theyhave these leadership qualities or ambitions. What
are things that they might want tothink about or can do to kind of,
you know, really lead like theywant to. So I'm going to
first and foremost respond to like thatidea of you know, in order to
be a leader in a building andyou have this big presence is I'm going
(25:41):
to go back to Susan Kine anda quote that she shares from Mahatma Gandhi
in a gentle way, you canshake the world that you don't have to
make that change by being big andboisterous. I will always remember a teacher,
she was truly a master teacher,who she had retired and I took
over her classroom. She had taughtin the same classroom for like twenty five
(26:04):
years. There was someone who washired after me, who was there for
like two years, and I camein. She would substitute and I never
once heard her raise her voice remotely. She just had a very soft,
gentle, firm voice. Students alwayslistened to her like every time. There
was never any doubt that she wasable to command a room without being loud
(26:29):
and boisterous, and it was justpart of no. I don't know exactly
what it was that she had abouther, but you could see in her
there was a confidence in herself.And I think that's maybe the big thing
is for a leader who feels introvertedis feel confident in who you are and
what you have to contribute. Don'ttry to be someone else, because especially
(26:52):
working in a school, kids theysee right through that, like they immediately
tell when you're trying to be someoneelse. So it's being who you are
authentically one hundred percent, and youknow it's also when it's like when you're
looking for those roles I frequently encouragelike student teachers and others who I may
(27:14):
be working with when it comes toapplying that you're interviewing the people who are
interviewing you also, and it's nothiding that personality, and it's being able
to promote those traits you have thatyou're there to help build consensus, to
help others be reflective, to givethe opportunities for every voice to have a
(27:37):
share. Are there times when yes, maybe you are going to have to
use that louder voice to be heardbecause it's in a busy hallway and there's
lots of kids going by. Maybe, but you can also be very quiet
as you do that. I love. There's a comic I see sometimes when
it's like they talk about you know, your mom yells your full name,
(27:57):
but it's even worse when she's justleans in and whispers, because that's when
you're like, oh, I'm ina lot of trouble now, because it's
like that suddenly changing the tempo.That is a great way to be able
to lead in take command a situationis when things are getting loud and getting
raucous, using that quiet voice toget everyone's attention. It may not be
(28:19):
as quick, but it's still justas impactful. So I think it's just
really recognizing who you are and whatyou have to bring to the table.
And maybe it's also being like,hey, maybe I'm not the best person
to be in the lunch room totry to quiet a cafeteria with five hundred
kids. Maybe I'm not the bestperson for that specific role, which me
(28:41):
is part of you you mentioned likebeing an assistant principle. I think there
are times we really as a systemneed to re evaluate what we think of
the role of the assistant principle aslike, why is the assistant principle always
have to be the disciplinary and theone who's handing out the punishment and the
consequences. Why can't the assistant principlebe the one who is leading professional learning
(29:03):
and you know, guiding the PLCmeetings while the principal is the one who
is going into the cafeteria and atthe like the bus drop offline. Like
you know, it's I don't knowwho decided that those roles were so clear
cut that that's what you have todo when you get that job. I
feel like that's an episode for adifferent day. But you bring up a
(29:25):
really good point, especially because youknow, I did live that life of
an assistant principle for a little while, and I still you know, we
talked about being connected before. Ibelong to at least one Facebook group that's
really all about the assistant principal position, And quite honestly, I've seen so
many posts and comments and threads recently, and when I say recently, I
(29:51):
mean over the last couple of years, where people in those positions just feel
I don't want to say burned,out, but they have to wear so
many hats and and therefore put outfire. It feel like they have to
put out fires all day, everyday basically in the name of making sure
(30:12):
that they are helping to allow theprinciple to do more of the things you
mentioned before, being more of aninstructional leader. And I know and I've
felt this where assistant principles just don'tfeel like they're able to make that kind
of impact as an instructional leader asa as a more of a coach,
(30:33):
like a mentor, and you know, they have so much experience and knowledge
as well. Again, probably anepisode for a different day, but that's
a it's it's a that's a fascinatingtopic as well. As we wrap up,
I think one of the common threadsand themes throughout a lot of our
conversation tonight has been around growth anddevelopment, you know, professional development.
(31:00):
You know, you and I bothare in roles where we are helping other
educators develop themselves professionally. I guessI just wanted to ask you, like,
where are we in the state ofprofessional development. We talked a little
bit before about some sort of nontraditional ways that teachers can develop themselves.
You mentioned working with some newer teachersand maybe where we headed in terms of
(31:25):
really getting more specifically like the nextgeneration of educators prepared for what they are
facing. I think I've been verypleased over the last few years to see
that in general our school system,the structure seems to finally be recognizing that
(31:47):
everybody sitting and getting the same likePD at the same time in the same
way is very rarely the most effectiveway to deliver that professional learning. Now,
there are times when we need everybodyto hear the same message the same
time, the same way. Alot of those things have to do with
like legal compliance, and may notjust compliance, they're like legitimate safety issues
(32:13):
for students. Like I always usethe example when I talk about like blood
borne pathogen training. It is reallyimportant for every single person to understand like
the protocols for coming into contact withpotential bloodborn pathogens because it's a health and
safety issue. I get that,Like, yeah, everyone needs it.
Now do we need to take asmuch time delivering that. No, Like
(32:36):
there's a colleague of mine who's like, here it is in a nutshell.
If it's wet and sticky and notyours, don't touch it. Okay,
we've all got that. We agree, let's move on to the more impactful
learning. Like if the school ordistrict is introducing something new that everybody's going
to be implementing at the same time, Yeah, we need to get those
(32:57):
like get the ground level, makesure we're all all on the same page.
From my district, we are reimplementing professional learning communities. We did
it in the past and then itkind of got lost in the lost in
translation and we realized we weren't reallydoing PLCs. So we're like, let's
reboot this and let's make sure everyone'son the same page. Or what do
(33:19):
we even mean by PLC because somepeople think it means it's just a meeting
and others are like, no,it's a process of gathering together. But
there's that. But I think ingeneral we're moving away from that idea of
everybody sits and gets the same thing. And in my district, we've really
been trying to emphasize that. Inour institute days, those in service days
(33:44):
we are we set them up asessentially like one day conferences where we'll have
a keynote speaker who comes in andtheir whole intention is to really inspire everyone
and give them an invitation to takecharge of the work we're doing. But
then we'll have anywhere from like fiftyto sixty breakout sessions going on over the
(34:04):
course of the day for the fourhundred and fifty staff in the district who
are attending, and it's allowing themto choose what they need based on their
own professional goals, based on likeschool improvement plans. Sometimes it's a little
less choice, Like you know,as year we implemented a new ELA program
in our district and we're doing thePLC work elementary teachers, they didn't get
(34:28):
a lot of choice in what theywere doing because there were things that we
need to get them all on thesame page. No, we're doing that,
And I'm also seeing more of theteachers teacher directed professional learning things like
teachers saying, hey, I wentto a conference or I was listening to
a podcast and I heard this personand they did publish a book, and
(34:51):
we want to get copies of thatbook and read it together on our own.
Just yesterday, I had a teacherwho came up to me. We
had we have a group we're workingwith and we had gotten for all of
them who are participating in this cohorta copy of hatt these Visible Learning the
sequel, and at the end ofthem, one of them came up is
She's like, so I already gotthis book and I've already like marked it
(35:13):
up and highlighted sections, so ifsomeone else needs it, I don't need
a copy. And it's just like, how awesome is that that an educator
has taken their time to go outand just do that learning on their own,
like trying to put together things likeaffinity groups or like minded educators come
together. I see us moving moreand more in that direction where we're really
(35:37):
taking the voice of the teachers andacknowledging their expertise, their knowledge, those
who have experienced doing things, andsaying what can we do to help you
grow instead of just saying, allright, we have a PD day and
everybody's gonna do guided reading training,including the pe teachers who never in a
hundred million years are ever going todo anything with guided reading. We're going
(36:00):
to make you sit through the PDbecause we got to do something. So
I think we are moving that way, sometimes moving faster, sometimes moving slower,
but it looks like we're moving inthat direction of valuing the voice of
our professional staff. I agree.I'm glad you said that because just recently,
a few weeks ago, we hada full day PD day in my
(36:22):
district and they kind of modeled alot of what you were saying in terms
of almost like a one day conference. There was no keynote, but there
were two sessions in the morning forelementary, two sessions in the afternoon for
secondary staff to do those kind ofbreakout sessions. Now, we called it
an ED camp, and it wasn'treally because it wasn't totally participant driven.
(36:45):
They had educators from around the districtpropose sessions to present, so it was
a little more formal in terms ofthe sessions and the presentations, but there
was choice there. And it soundslike, although I I didn't see the
feedback directly, it sounds like therewas a lot of really positive feedback about
that style of PD, and soI think that you're right, at least
(37:09):
in my district, and it soundslike yours too. Heading in that direction
of you know, teachers helping otherteachers. One of the things that I
personally still want to see more ofis quite literally teachers helping teachers when it
comes to like learning walks or justkind of watching how other teachers do things.
(37:29):
I tell people all the time thatas a coach, an instructional coach,
one of my favorite things about myjob is that I get to learn
from watching how so many different teachersget to do things. And I wish
more classroom teachers would not just understandthe value behind that, but actually be
given the opportunity and take advantage ofthe opportunity to be able to learn from
(37:52):
the teacher across the hall, theteacher down the hall from them, because
I think that a lot of timeswe can learn so much much from one
another. I'm going to end there. If you have more to say,
I wouldn't mind if you edit somemore comments, but we're going to start
to wrap up here. You know, of course, as we end,
if you could also let listeners knowhow they can connect with you if necessary,
(38:15):
and if they want to learn moreabout any of the topics that we
discussed tonight. But Alex, Iwant to say that you know, and
I know that this interview was along time coming, but I really appreciate
your support of me, this brand, and this show, and of course
for coming on as a guest,So thank you very much. Yeah,
thank you for having me. Justa couple of final thoughts there. First
(38:37):
of all, like that space forteachers to see each other to do their
work. So I've been reading throughthem. Going to hold up for you.
It's this book Professional Development, WhatWorks by Sally Jay Zapaida, And
ninety percent of this book is abouthow that job embedded. Professional development means
we need to give space for teachersto do the learning together. Just yes,
(39:00):
I was at a school where ateacher came in to talk to a
principal and said, I need tobe able to go in and do observations
of a colleague and I can't justgive up my plan time every time.
And the principal said, put iton my calendar. I will go watch
your class. I will teach yourlesson while you go observe your colleague.
Because the principal's like, I knowhow to teach. I can do that,
(39:22):
and I would love to see thathappen more often. We're like the
school leaders. Whenever possible, theygo in and say, hey, we
don't have enough subs to cover,but I can provide that coverage. You
tell me what the kids are doingI'll go in, I'll keep I'll do
that read aloud, I'll do thatmath lesson, I'll do the you know,
the writing lesson that they're doing.I'll supervise while you go and observe
(39:44):
each other. So I think thatthat's definitely something we can do, and
I think that there's a lot ofroom for that. So just kind of
that parting thought. But yeah,I would love to connect with any of
your listeners and like say that I'mAlex Steve Lenzik on all the social media
plans patforms. I'm still on Twitter, I'm on Facebook, like I joined
(40:04):
blue Sky recently. I'm still notquite sure what's going on with Blue Sky.
I'm in threads and I wish thatthey had searchable hashtags because I think
that would make that a really valuableplatform. But pretty much, if you
type in the name Alex Ski Valentik, even if you misspell the last name,
you will still find me. Iregularly google myself to check and usually
the first thing that pops up isthe picture of me with my bright blue
(40:28):
shirt and my white bow tie anda vests. If you see the picture
of me with the bow tie,you know it's me. Got the thick
curly hair. You know, ifpeople are just listening to this, they
can't see me. But seriously,like it's the easiest way to find me.
It's just google the name and I'mgonna pop up. I love connecting
with educators. It's kind of myclosing things that I've started doing a lot
lately, is I let people knowthat I love and to appreciate each and
(40:51):
every single one of them. Andif there is anything at all I can
do to help with anything at all, please just ask Dan. I know
you know that I've made that offerto you several times. I think that's
actually how we finally got me onthe podcast. You're like, hey,
I've got an idea of what youcan do to help. I need a
guest. And I was like,all right, we got it. Yeah,
all right, Well I'm going towrap it up right there because I
(41:13):
really appreciate you, and I knowyou appreciate everyone else like you just said,
so, Alex, thank you verymuch for coming on here, for
giving us your time and giving usyour insights. Really appreciate it. Thank
you for having me. Well that'sit for this episode. Thank you so
much for listening. If you haven'tdone so yet, don't forget to subscribe
(41:36):
to this show on your favorite podcastapp. If you enjoy the content covered
on this show, I want toask you to do this one thing for
me. Please share it. Thebiggest favor you could ever do for me
is to please let others know aboutwhat I'm doing and how I'm helping educators
grow their impact as instructional leaders.I hope you can share this podcast with
(41:58):
other educators, leaders, or anyoneyou think would love listening and learning.
If you're interested in leaving a positiverating and review of this show, links
to do so or always in theshow notes for every episode. For more
information about me or this show,and to access the great content that I
share, please visit my website atLeader of Learning dot com. That's where
(42:20):
you can find my online courses,YouTube channel, blog, how to connect
with me on social media, andeven ways that you can support the show,
like donating or purchasing Leader of Learningmerchandise. Thanks again, and remember,
no matter who you are or whereyou are, you are a Leader of Learning
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