August 19, 2024 • 31 mins
Haley Revel is the Managing Director and HR & Talent Management for Calibrate.
With over 20 years in Talent and HR, Haley has a solid track record of success in architecting, strategically delivering, and leading global HR programs/operations embedded with technology driven solutions and aligned to key organizational priorities.
Calibrate is a trusted executive search and organizational consultancy focused on helping law firms achieve operational excellence by optimizing their talent, processes, and performance. As an industry leader in advocating for business professionals in the business and practice of law, Calibrate is comprised of former law firm and F100 professionals, and approaches each client’s engagement with an insider’s understanding of the category.
Connect with Haley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haley-jaynes-revel/
Visit Calibrate: https://calibrate-strategies.com/
On This Episode, We Discuss…
With over 20 years in Talent and HR, Haley has a solid track record of success in architecting, strategically delivering, and leading global HR programs/operations embedded with technology driven solutions and aligned to key organizational priorities.
Calibrate is a trusted executive search and organizational consultancy focused on helping law firms achieve operational excellence by optimizing their talent, processes, and performance. As an industry leader in advocating for business professionals in the business and practice of law, Calibrate is comprised of former law firm and F100 professionals, and approaches each client’s engagement with an insider’s understanding of the category.
Connect with Haley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haley-jaynes-revel/
Visit Calibrate: https://calibrate-strategies.com/
On This Episode, We Discuss…
- Implementing Effective Talent Strategies within Law Firms
- Creating Clear Career Paths for Employees
- Best Practices to Enhance Employee Experiences
- Strategies for Law Firms to Engage Their Workforce
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you're developing who you are as a business, because
forbs are businesses. What are you doing with your people's
strategy to really elevate and create that singular opportunity. It's
not just about your lawyers. It's about your lawyers and
everyone else for one single group of people that are
ultimately driving the front forward.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You're listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market
My Market with your hosts Eric Barsano, Ryan Klin, and
Chase Williams, the go to podcast for learning from the
experts and the legal community about effective ways to grow
and manage your law firm.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Today I have with me Hailey Revel.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hailey is the managing director of the HR and Talent
Management at Calibrate.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Hailey, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thanks Eric, I'm delighted to be here with you today.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So you've got an interesting background, and by that I
mean you spend over twenty years at Eccentric, you know,
it's you know, massive, well known company, and then recently
have kind of gone off and are working at Calibrate.
So I wanted to start if you don't mind talking
(01:19):
a little bit about that experience that you have, because
I think that kind of overlays into what you're doing now.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Absolutely and very important to the journey that I've taken
and the journey that I've been on for the last
year and a half since I stepped out of Accentri
and stepped into Calibrate. You know, I spent a long
time working in Accentri. My focus was always in HR
working with operational strategy, helping to architect and develop and
(01:47):
implement different strategies for people all over the globe. When
I left Eccentric, there were seven hundred and fifty thousand
employees across I want to say sixty something countries, and
every thing that we did was really anchored in the
employee experience and employee strategy, knowing that if you focused
on the talent, which is always your biggest asset and
(02:09):
any professional services organization, that you would be able to
really achieve the right levels of success and profitability for
a business. And there's a ton of data and statistics
that have been published based on research that's been done
by Eccentric and many other organizations. But being able to
kind of think about what does it look like in
professional services in bringing together a full circle experience for
(02:34):
every employee, regardless of the role that they play. So
when I worked at Eccentric, one of the greatest things
that I got to do as that internal business professional
that was really supporting those consultants that were out delivering
services and really bringing in the revenue for the business.
What I was able to experience and then further help
(02:54):
elevate were the programs where we were focused on taking
care of everyone, even if you weren't somebody driving revenue
to the bottom line directly, because inadvertently everyone was. Everyone
was working to enable revenue in some way. And when
I look at the trajectory and the strategy of Calibrate
(03:14):
as a business, one of the things that interested me
the most was knowing that there was this impression with
the legal industry and really the focus as we've seen
for so many decades on lawyers and the revenue generation
that they do, and that being a priority where talent
strategies and all of the development and the focus was
(03:36):
always on the lawyers and never really on professionals, And
where there was an opportunity to take and kind of
bring the experience and the exposure that I had from
a world class professional services organization and helped step into
this industry and really partner with firms to figure out
how to do the same where along with elevating the
(03:58):
strategies that they had already put in place or their
legal talent, they were also focused on doing the same
for business professionals so that ultimately they were more competitive
with the war on talent which continues to this day.
But also really thinking through the generational experience that we're
all having and knowing what our workforce looks like and
being able to adapt and become more agile with markets
(04:20):
that seem to be more volatile year on year. So
bringing a lot of that into the fold. But having
the exposure and experience with Accenture, which is an organization
that likes to fill forward and feel fast, is such
a great way to step into this industry and learn
and help leaders that are becoming more business professional business
(04:41):
minded in the legal industry think about it and try
and approach things that way with their talent and their
people at the center of it all.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So I'm curious on some of the details of this,
and what I mean by that is, if I were
to go up to any business, I go, hey, just
hire great people. They'll go, Wow, brilliant, what a great idea,
that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Just hire amazing people. So I would just really love
to get into the details with you about how what
that process looks like, everything from you know, tools to
find the talent, what you're looking for in talent are there?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And I know there's there's tools out there, you know,
to measure people's personality, and maybe there's there's core fits
with the group, Like you've each law firm has its
own personality and you want people to mesh with that personality.
So could you give a couple of details and maybe
(05:42):
some examples of direction that you would give somebody when
looking to hire good talent.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Absolutely, when you think about a talent strategy, it really
does tie in the firm culture. But it also is
really important to think about the employee experience. And when
I employee, most people are going to think the person
that shows up on day one until the point that
they walk out on their last day, whatever reason they
(06:09):
may leave the firm. The difference is an employee really
shows up in different personas an employee should also be
considered a candidate. What's the first time that a candidate
in the market, is engaged with your brand? How do
they see you and how are you represented in the market?
Is a place for them to come and grow their
career and their own personal and professional development. That is
(06:32):
part of their plan. It's not just about what the
firm needs. So when you look at the strategies and
the tools part of the work that people have to
really focus on before they think about what assessment should
I be doing? Is there an AI tool out there
or some other intelligence that I can use to service
my processes? How am I sourcing my talent? And how
(06:53):
am I recruiting my talent? How am I scheduling my talent?
How am I onboarding? Going through that entire life cycle.
The deep work that has to be done beforehand is
knowing who you are as a firm, what is the
culture of the firm, and how do you actually show
up for your people so that they feel connected, engaged
and embedded in the work that they're doing every day
because they need to feel that too, given that they're
(07:16):
providing so many hours of their own life for something
more than just a paycheck. Sure, everyone's going to show
up for a paycheck, but at the same time, in
order to get us to stay. It's also about more
than just the money, but thinking about also what are
you expecting of them and how are you going to
be able to articulate to them the expectations of what
(07:36):
you need for them to do. Regardless of the role.
Whether we're talking about an associate or we're talking about
a marketing coordinator, it doesn't matter. You need to have
that clarified, and then having the right tools and methodologies
in place to be able to then leverage what you
have communicated beyond a job description and expectations that they
can continue to anchor to and assess how am I
(07:58):
doing and how am iing? Gauge and then driving the
right types of programs to give them something more than
just the job that they're doing for the firm day
in and day out. There is a different way for
them to connect. There are different opportunities, and that doesn't
mean doing happy hours in those types of things. It
means really providing them with a chance to say, here's
(08:20):
who I want to be and here's how the firm
can help me get there, and then following through on
the commitment to be able to offer that whether I
want to develop my practice skills as an attorney in
a specific practice area, or I want to develop my
skills and really being able to plan incredible events as
a coordinator in the marketing and bad team. So there's
a lot of deep work that needs to be done
(08:41):
upfront to understand that about your organization and really know
how am I tying my talent and my people strategy
to my business strategy? What is my culture? How am
I articulating what people need to be able to know
about what I expect and then how am I going
to hold them to that and then offer more developed
and opportunities because of it?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Now, is this something that's done, I'm assuming before you
even start looking for that person. So you're you're say
you're going to hire one, two, three people? Do you
want to have that all mapped out ahead of times?
You know, these are the expectations I'm going to have
for each person? Or are those things that you really
have to kind of do because you know, you know,
(09:24):
at least in my world, we're not talking about law
firms of five hundred people. You know, these are the
law firms a lot that I work with. You know,
are you know, four to.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Ten maybe twenty people?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So I'm just wondering if you can relate it to that.
Like you know, if you're starting to look for talent,
whether that be bringing on another attorney or a paralegal
or you're and like you said, everybody needs to be
rowing the same direction because they're all really responsible for
success sales, you know, moving that company forward.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's going to depend on in the firm size, it's
going to depend on the culture. So it's hard to
say that there is a one size fits all approach.
It really does. It's driven by how a firm is
set up. I will say, you don't have to have
it all figured out. You don't need to over engineer
things in order to be successful at what you're doing
(10:20):
to get the right people in the door and then
to be able to continue to keep them engaged. But
if you haven't done any of that work, and you
aren't even having the conversation to be able to identify
what are those characteristic and personality traits that are important
for maybe a behavioral assessment to help me identify, then
that's where you're going to end up with retention issues
(10:42):
which become very costly to your business. Regardless of whether
you're talking about legal a professional talent and figuring out
what exactly that's going to look like to continue moving
the needle forward and expanding rather than contracting. So an
example is, you know, if you're bringing somebody in as
a leader, part of the conversation isn't focused on at
(11:05):
a firm size of maybe twenty people or twenty attorneys
having enough agility and flexibility to realize that part of
this is flying the plane at the same time that
you're building it and wanting to bring someone in that
has very rigid expectations about everything being over engineered or
engineered and predesigned and available at fingertips rather than sometimes
(11:25):
the hard work being put in to get there and
to grow there together. That's where you start to run
into challenges. And so that's where it's regardless of the size,
because again it's not one size fits all for any firm,
even the big ones. It's not going to be that
one size fits all. It's really thinking about if I
don't have those expectations clarified for this particular team or
(11:46):
this particular individual, what more can I do beyond the
job description I've written to attract that talent to be
able to help them understand what it is that I'm
going to measure them against and what they're expected to do,
and then how do I help them develop based on that,
given the opportunities and where we want to go their
lines to the firm business.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Strategy, that makes sense so in hiring, So if you know,
if you're looking at resumes, you know, there's just going
to be certain things that stand out, maybe someone's education,
previous experience. Beyond that, are there any things that you
look at kind of the ancillary things like if you say,
(12:26):
you know, here are a couple questions that you would
ask to a potential hiring you know, are you looking
for extracurriculars?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Are there are there.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Things that you say, you know, because everybody says again
talent is so important, are there some secrets or some
some tactics that you would use in the hiring process
to go a little bit beyond what's just written on
the resume of experience, education kind of things.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It's less about the extracurriculars, although it does certainly show
individuals that are very well But I think that's when
generationally you're looking at things, it's kind of figuring out
how much relevance that provides to the role that you're
hiring somebody to do for me, and the tools that
we use and the way that we focus on asking
(13:14):
questions that calibrate is not just doing the validation of
do they have the right skills for the job that
we're talking to them about and that we want to
help our clients hire them for. It's also looking to
understand the behavioral mindset and that mentality for the individual
and how that might map to the firm culture and
(13:34):
especially to the individuals that they would be working with. Again,
everyone is going to be different, and so the nuance
comes in where you get a really good sense of
is a team that we're hiring this group into a
group that likes to move really quickly and doesn't necessarily
need to get into the details and wants to hire
a professional that they can trust, whether it's a lawyer
(13:56):
or a business professional, to just move the needle forward
and going. Or are they looking for someone that because
they're a very micromanaged culture which there's no right or wrong,
but like to have the details and want to be
in the weeds with things because they feel this real
sense of ownership, especially in smaller firms, that they need
(14:16):
to find someone that's going to be okay with that
type of collaboration. It isn't so much of that boom autonomy.
Go do it and bring it back to us and
let us know what you got. Instead, it's we're pretty
prescribed and how we want things done. We need someone
to come help us move this forward, but we have
a clear sense of the direction we want to do.
So it's getting in and getting a sense of behaviorally,
(14:38):
how do the individuals map to the culture and the
overall structure and mindset of the groups that they'd be
hired into. So that's one thing, and having a good
recruiter that can kind of play that matchmaker, if you will,
is incredibly important when you're working to identify your talent.
The other piece is really getting a sense of understanding
how do people handle adversity when if they faced a
(15:00):
challenge that really is a challenge, and not just tell
me about the challenge, but help me understand what you
did to get through it, to overcome it. What are
the lessons that you learned from it, and how have
you adapted your choices, your behaviors, your actions based on
what you learned from that experience. Because those that can
give great examples and show that ability to adapt and
(15:21):
to learn from and have a growth mindset. Are the
ones where you know that they're not stuck in just now,
that they're continually looking for what's going forward. And that's
a great way to be able to market skills for anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
So, if there's a change that you've seen, and I'm
assuming this, but I'm not sure it's true in legal
just because of all the advancements in technology, are there
positions now that you see law firms needing that they
may not have needed, you know, ten years ago or
even you know, five years ago, Or are there really
(15:56):
some just key blocks and components that you'd say, you know,
if you're growing your law firm, you know, these are
the types of talents that you need to look for.
Or are you telling people to have somebody who's more
in the technology side.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
You know, I've had people on this podcast that you know, are.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Talking about AI and how that can really help optimize
one employee to be you know, five x more efficient.
Are there things that you're seeing pop up as far
as looking for talent that you didn't see five or
ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
There is definitely a higher elevation of the technology component
and being able to really lean and tap into a
vast industry of tools and services that are out there
that can really elevate what individuals are doing, regardless of
the role that they play. Obviously, when you talk about
something like jen Ai, there are going to be legal
(16:48):
considerations based on how it's being used within a firm
and how you know lawyers are delivering client services and
what that looks like to make sure that you know
the right legislation and laws are being applied from privacy, etc.
But when you think about how might you leverage technology,
and it's really leveraging and outsourcing technology to help provide efficiencies.
(17:14):
The concept is that where you want to go is
not just to I'm going to leverage a technology to
provide an efficiency, but what I want to do is
I want to tap into the individuals and the strategic minds,
that critical thinking, that strategic thinking that every individual human
is going to have as part of a team and
a firm, and be able to elevate them so that
(17:36):
technology is doing the redundant work and they're able to
really think about how they can show up in a
value added way while using technology at the same time,
so to go to your question of in the last
five to ten years, where has that adaption really come in.
There has been an increased awareness and use of data
(17:56):
and technology across all roles that you're bringing in that
doesn't have some level of technical skills that should map
to how your firm is being set up, even if
it's just basic collaboration skills, knowing how to use Microsoft Team, Zoom, Slack,
whatever it might be, just to collaborate in more virtual
environment that we operate in because we're not always in
(18:17):
the office day to day. That's a baseline, but then
being able to figure out both the strategies and the
technologies is really important when you look at the change
in the types of roles. Yeah, there's definitely been an evolution.
I think in the last twelve months we've certainly seen
an even bigger evolution when you think about data architects
(18:38):
and where firms are becoming more intelligent and sophisticated in
how they're actually using data in order to drive their
client strategy, their client experience strategy, sometimes their own talent strategy,
and how they're managing their people and then thinking about
what they need to do to help them identify where
they go to market next, or where they want to
expand or prioritize resources in a different area. The other
(19:00):
piece of that is being able to get your hands
around AI in a way that it does then supplement
and provide those efficiencies and optimization for your business professionals
and for your legal professionals, because the beauty of what
the tools out there can do really drive immense value
and free up time for people to use their brains
(19:22):
in a different and more meaningful way. But in order
to do it, it requires having knowledge about how to
use those tools, and so marketing teams and data teams
are starting to see more of a requirement for prompt engineers.
And if I'm building up an AI engine that I
want to use with my own firm, or even let's
say you want to have your firm of twenty people
(19:43):
leverage chat GPT on a regular basis, applicable to all
of the requirements and laws based on your client relationships,
how are you educating your teams to be able to
use that in the right way, How does that show up?
What does it look like? And having prompt engineers or
even just doing professional development for your own internal resources
to learn more about how to write the appropriate prompts
(20:05):
to get to that efficiency is incredibly valuable. So there
is certainly a sway towards the tech piece. There's also
a change in the business of law firms when it
comes to the talent space. And if you look at
firms across many industry, many areas and kind of am law,
you've got chief talent officers that maybe only focus on
(20:28):
the lawyers, and then you've got somebody that's responsible for professionals,
and there is a shift where they're looking at chief
people officers and really taking on that holistic mindset and
that approach that drove me from Accenture into this industry
to say, it's such your rich opportunity to really help
firms think about when you're developing who you are as
(20:50):
a business, because all firms are businesses, what are you
doing with your people's strategy to really elevate and create
that singular opportunity. It's not just about your lawyers. It's
about your lawyers and everyone else for one single group
of people that are ultimately driving the front forward. So
there's definitely been a shift beyond your traditional benefits, compensation,
(21:12):
employee relations, kind of compliance check the box. We've taken
care of. It all very important to administer employees, but
at the same time, there's a lot that can be
done for professional development and looking at employee engagement, D
and I and tying those strategies into the overall for
firm foundation culture and strategy too.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So we've talked a lot about, you know, the outward
looking for hiring employees.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
What is the onboarding process or the beginning process of
you and your company working with the law firm. I
imagine there's there's a huge interview process where you're asking
for like five ten year goals and like, you know,
are you changing practices? You know, what's what's your biggest
practice area as far as you know.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
How lucive it is or how what the volume is.
How does that onboarding process for lack of a better
word work, You know, when you're just starting to work
with a firm about using your capabilities to help them grow.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
That's a great question. And I'm in a tailor. I
think some of it just a little bit to make
sure that I clarify. When we focus on doing executive
search for law firms, we don't focus on legal talent,
so we hire professionals for the firms rather than the lawyers.
We partner with a lot of firms that are looking
to help with associate and partner integration, you know, hiring,
(22:36):
those types of things, but we focus on the business
professional side where we get into some of those questions.
It's incredibly relevant and important for us to gather a
lot of that information, one from the stakeholders on the
firm side. First, to understand from the hiring committee whomever
that might be one or ten people, what is it
(22:56):
that they're looking for, and then bringing that relevance from
the candidates that we're speaking with into the conversation and
understanding what is really important when we think about revenue enablers,
the people that are working behind the scenes to drive
the law firm forward, and to really look at delivering
services to the lawyers that are out there bringing the
(23:18):
revenue in the door. It's focusing on understanding what does
that client experience look like for you, because ultimately, business
professionals clients are the lawyers in a firm, and so
that being an incredibly important piece of what we're looking
at from a contextual standpoint. You know, some firms may say, hey,
there's a peer in the market or the industry that
(23:40):
I'm really looking to follow because we know in this
industry firms like to follow quickly with things rather than
being the first one out there doing something, and that's
always insightful to help us understand where we need to
go to help develop that series of questions and the
data that we're trying to capture. But when you think
about the C suite hiring that we've done on CEO
(24:00):
COO CFOs, a lot of that comes into play because
asking questions around the things that they've done in their
portfolio of experience will help set up the view of
how they can then you know, push forward with any
of their strategic plans and how they're going to step
into align with what the firm is decided they want
(24:21):
to do, where they're looking at someone as a leader
to come in and really drive the ship as opposed
to figuring out where they need to steer the ship
or some combination of the two.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So I'm wondering if you could give us because you've
given a really good, well rounded kind of idea of
what it is that you do, and it sounds like
there's a lot of details and moving parts of this
do you have a story you could share something that
would be an example of a success story of you know,
you know there was law firm A that was having
this issue, and you know that these were their main challenges,
(24:56):
and here's.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
How we help the director.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I always think a story helps, you know, the person
listening to this go oh, yeah, that's the problem that we're.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Having, and then they really understand how to solve for it.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, So in this example, my story is going
to focus on our consulting practice and the partnerships that
we've had with a firm that had a relatively robust
marketing and business development team, and they came to me
and said, hey, obviously, post COVID, we've got some challenges
(25:30):
with being able to help our team stay connected and
engaged and really have a sense that we're here and
invested in developing them. Firm doesn't have a very robust
talent focus outside of just the HR strategy of making
sure that people have their benefits, are getting paid, and
are connected into some of the right things. So what
(25:51):
we need in order to retain this team is a
way to kind of anchor them to something that's very
meaningful to us as a department, but then also to
the firm so that we can then take and continue
to expand that while helping them understand where we want
to develop them, giving them an opportunity to stay connected, engaged,
and then you know, continuing to just kind of go
(26:12):
from there. So what we did is we stepped in
and partnered with them to go through and do stakeholder
interviews and really identified kind of that core of who
they are and how their culture shows up, how their
value shows up. What are those top traits and characteristics
that are important for people at this firm to be successful.
(26:32):
Then we developed competencies for them. So at the core
level and at a leadership level, if you want someone
to step into this business on day one, what is
it that they need in order to be successful? We
identified that with them, We defined it, and then we
applied that to every department function and every level within
the department to be able to give them a framework
(26:56):
for the careers and the professional development and growth opportunities
of the people that sat within that department. And a
year later, what came out of that was they were
able to very easily put together a business case to
promote three of the people on their team, and they
had four other people that came back and said, Hey,
in this frame work, I identified some areas where I
(27:17):
need to grow, and my leader agrees with me. So
you said as a firm that you were going to
invest in me so that I could continue to grow
my career. This is where I want to go get
professional development and training that's above and beyond what the
firm is offering to me. Help me get there, and
I'm going to hold your feet to the fire to
make it happen. And what's happened from that is in
(27:38):
that course of time, they've had zero attrition in the
team because people feel connected, they feel engaged, and so
being able to create just those types of strategies and
those frameworks to give people a way to anchor to
something important is really meaningful and drives value both from
an employee engagement and experience standpoint, but also from a
(28:01):
business at fiscal standpoint, because there's a lot of dollars
they've saved in the process of not having to focus
on refilling and hiring positions that people have left.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, and it sounds I mean, it makes sense as
you explain it, like if everybody knows what their expectations are,
and I like how you kind of turned it back
on the firm at one point, Meaning if I'm a
new employee, you know, it's like the first day of school.
You know, it's like everything's so unknown. But it sounds
to me like you're building these really clear roadmaps. So
as an employee, I know exactly what's expected of me.
(28:34):
And then, like I said, the fact that you flip
around on the law firm and say, okay, now that
employee has some expectations of you.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You've committed to do.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
This and helped them their career, They've gotten to the
year point or whatever it is, and now they want
this continued education. So yeah, I think that's that's really.
It eliminates a lot of the guesswork and maybe kind
of a fear, for lack of a better word, of
an employee of like what really am I supposed to
do here? I know what my title is, but what
(29:03):
does that all entail? And then gives people a clear
path and I'm assuming goals. You know that they're achieving
along the way where they're going to be measured against, and.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Also tapping into their own human ingenuity. Right, none of
us show up every day just to do our job today.
Most of us, especially in this industry where you're dealing
with incredibly high performance and really intelligent professionals, they're thinking
about tomorrow, they're thinking about six months from now, and
they don't have it mapped out. But if you are
giving them some view of a plan of where they
(29:35):
might be able to go, what they're going to put
into today will be elevated and at a higher level
than if you don't give them anything except for show
up and just do what I ask you to do today.
So thinking about that future and really having that future
focus drives that engagement because then people feel that there
is an investment in them, when they in turn invest
more in the firm. So you get this winning combination
(29:57):
that comes out of all of it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, it sounds great, and as I mentioned, as you're
saying it, it makes perfect sense, but I think it's
really the hard work of building that on both sides,
building out the path for the employee and the expectations. Well, Haley,
thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. You obviously
have a ton of experience in this area. Is there
(30:20):
anything final thoughts you'd like to share with the audience
or places that they could contact you that we may
not know about.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Obviously. Our website also on LinkedIn. For me, again going
back to the beginning of our conversation, the reason that
I wanted to step in this into this industry was
after watching Calibrate for many years and seeing the evolution
of where they were taking the mindset of business professionals
and really driving home the value that they play as
(30:49):
revenue enablers in the firm. Seeing the opportunity to help
firms understand that when you look at a people experience
and a people's strategy, it's all people. And knowing that
Accentria is one of those places that's done it very
well for many, many years and bringing a lot of
that knowledge in is a journey where I see there's
a ton of exciting opportunity to partner with firms to
(31:10):
be able to help them with that. Whether they have
twenty people or two thousand people, it doesn't matter. It's
always important because the people are the core of everything
that we do.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Thank you very much, Hailey, Thanks Eric.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Thanks for listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by
Market my Market. You can check out additional episodes and
recaps at Legalmastermind podcast, dot com
When you're developing who you are as a business, because
forbs are businesses. What are you doing with your people's
strategy to really elevate and create that singular opportunity. It's
not just about your lawyers. It's about your lawyers and
everyone else for one single group of people that are
ultimately driving the front forward.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
You're listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market
My Market with your hosts Eric Barsano, Ryan Klin, and
Chase Williams, the go to podcast for learning from the
experts and the legal community about effective ways to grow
and manage your law firm.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
Today I have with me Hailey Revel.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hailey is the managing director of the HR and Talent
Management at Calibrate.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Hailey, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thanks Eric, I'm delighted to be here with you today.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
So you've got an interesting background, and by that I
mean you spend over twenty years at Eccentric, you know,
it's you know, massive, well known company, and then recently
have kind of gone off and are working at Calibrate.
So I wanted to start if you don't mind talking
(01:19):
a little bit about that experience that you have, because
I think that kind of overlays into what you're doing now.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Absolutely and very important to the journey that I've taken
and the journey that I've been on for the last
year and a half since I stepped out of Accentri
and stepped into Calibrate. You know, I spent a long
time working in Accentri. My focus was always in HR
working with operational strategy, helping to architect and develop and
(01:47):
implement different strategies for people all over the globe. When
I left Eccentric, there were seven hundred and fifty thousand
employees across I want to say sixty something countries, and
every thing that we did was really anchored in the
employee experience and employee strategy, knowing that if you focused
on the talent, which is always your biggest asset and
(02:09):
any professional services organization, that you would be able to
really achieve the right levels of success and profitability for
a business. And there's a ton of data and statistics
that have been published based on research that's been done
by Eccentric and many other organizations. But being able to
kind of think about what does it look like in
professional services in bringing together a full circle experience for
(02:34):
every employee, regardless of the role that they play. So
when I worked at Eccentric, one of the greatest things
that I got to do as that internal business professional
that was really supporting those consultants that were out delivering
services and really bringing in the revenue for the business.
What I was able to experience and then further help
(02:54):
elevate were the programs where we were focused on taking
care of everyone, even if you weren't somebody driving revenue
to the bottom line directly, because inadvertently everyone was. Everyone
was working to enable revenue in some way. And when
I look at the trajectory and the strategy of Calibrate
(03:14):
as a business, one of the things that interested me
the most was knowing that there was this impression with
the legal industry and really the focus as we've seen
for so many decades on lawyers and the revenue generation
that they do, and that being a priority where talent
strategies and all of the development and the focus was
(03:36):
always on the lawyers and never really on professionals, And
where there was an opportunity to take and kind of
bring the experience and the exposure that I had from
a world class professional services organization and helped step into
this industry and really partner with firms to figure out
how to do the same where along with elevating the
(03:58):
strategies that they had already put in place or their
legal talent, they were also focused on doing the same
for business professionals so that ultimately they were more competitive
with the war on talent which continues to this day.
But also really thinking through the generational experience that we're
all having and knowing what our workforce looks like and
being able to adapt and become more agile with markets
(04:20):
that seem to be more volatile year on year. So
bringing a lot of that into the fold. But having
the exposure and experience with Accenture, which is an organization
that likes to fill forward and feel fast, is such
a great way to step into this industry and learn
and help leaders that are becoming more business professional business
(04:41):
minded in the legal industry think about it and try
and approach things that way with their talent and their
people at the center of it all.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So I'm curious on some of the details of this,
and what I mean by that is, if I were
to go up to any business, I go, hey, just
hire great people. They'll go, Wow, brilliant, what a great idea,
that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Just hire amazing people. So I would just really love
to get into the details with you about how what
that process looks like, everything from you know, tools to
find the talent, what you're looking for in talent are there?
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You know?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
And I know there's there's tools out there, you know,
to measure people's personality, and maybe there's there's core fits
with the group, Like you've each law firm has its
own personality and you want people to mesh with that personality.
So could you give a couple of details and maybe
(05:42):
some examples of direction that you would give somebody when
looking to hire good talent.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Absolutely, when you think about a talent strategy, it really
does tie in the firm culture. But it also is
really important to think about the employee experience. And when
I employee, most people are going to think the person
that shows up on day one until the point that
they walk out on their last day, whatever reason they
(06:09):
may leave the firm. The difference is an employee really
shows up in different personas an employee should also be
considered a candidate. What's the first time that a candidate
in the market, is engaged with your brand? How do
they see you and how are you represented in the market?
Is a place for them to come and grow their
career and their own personal and professional development. That is
(06:32):
part of their plan. It's not just about what the
firm needs. So when you look at the strategies and
the tools part of the work that people have to
really focus on before they think about what assessment should
I be doing? Is there an AI tool out there
or some other intelligence that I can use to service
my processes? How am I sourcing my talent? And how
(06:53):
am I recruiting my talent? How am I scheduling my talent?
How am I onboarding? Going through that entire life cycle.
The deep work that has to be done beforehand is
knowing who you are as a firm, what is the
culture of the firm, and how do you actually show
up for your people so that they feel connected, engaged
and embedded in the work that they're doing every day
because they need to feel that too, given that they're
(07:16):
providing so many hours of their own life for something
more than just a paycheck. Sure, everyone's going to show
up for a paycheck, but at the same time, in
order to get us to stay. It's also about more
than just the money, but thinking about also what are
you expecting of them and how are you going to
be able to articulate to them the expectations of what
(07:36):
you need for them to do. Regardless of the role.
Whether we're talking about an associate or we're talking about
a marketing coordinator, it doesn't matter. You need to have
that clarified, and then having the right tools and methodologies
in place to be able to then leverage what you
have communicated beyond a job description and expectations that they
can continue to anchor to and assess how am I
(07:58):
doing and how am iing? Gauge and then driving the
right types of programs to give them something more than
just the job that they're doing for the firm day
in and day out. There is a different way for
them to connect. There are different opportunities, and that doesn't
mean doing happy hours in those types of things. It
means really providing them with a chance to say, here's
(08:20):
who I want to be and here's how the firm
can help me get there, and then following through on
the commitment to be able to offer that whether I
want to develop my practice skills as an attorney in
a specific practice area, or I want to develop my
skills and really being able to plan incredible events as
a coordinator in the marketing and bad team. So there's
a lot of deep work that needs to be done
(08:41):
upfront to understand that about your organization and really know
how am I tying my talent and my people strategy
to my business strategy? What is my culture? How am
I articulating what people need to be able to know
about what I expect and then how am I going
to hold them to that and then offer more developed
and opportunities because of it?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
Now, is this something that's done, I'm assuming before you
even start looking for that person. So you're you're say
you're going to hire one, two, three people? Do you
want to have that all mapped out ahead of times?
You know, these are the expectations I'm going to have
for each person? Or are those things that you really
have to kind of do because you know, you know,
(09:24):
at least in my world, we're not talking about law
firms of five hundred people. You know, these are the
law firms a lot that I work with. You know,
are you know, four to.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Ten maybe twenty people?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So I'm just wondering if you can relate it to that.
Like you know, if you're starting to look for talent,
whether that be bringing on another attorney or a paralegal
or you're and like you said, everybody needs to be
rowing the same direction because they're all really responsible for
success sales, you know, moving that company forward.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's going to depend on in the firm size, it's
going to depend on the culture. So it's hard to
say that there is a one size fits all approach.
It really does. It's driven by how a firm is
set up. I will say, you don't have to have
it all figured out. You don't need to over engineer
things in order to be successful at what you're doing
(10:20):
to get the right people in the door and then
to be able to continue to keep them engaged. But
if you haven't done any of that work, and you
aren't even having the conversation to be able to identify
what are those characteristic and personality traits that are important
for maybe a behavioral assessment to help me identify, then
that's where you're going to end up with retention issues
(10:42):
which become very costly to your business. Regardless of whether
you're talking about legal a professional talent and figuring out
what exactly that's going to look like to continue moving
the needle forward and expanding rather than contracting. So an
example is, you know, if you're bringing somebody in as
a leader, part of the conversation isn't focused on at
(11:05):
a firm size of maybe twenty people or twenty attorneys
having enough agility and flexibility to realize that part of
this is flying the plane at the same time that
you're building it and wanting to bring someone in that
has very rigid expectations about everything being over engineered or
engineered and predesigned and available at fingertips rather than sometimes
(11:25):
the hard work being put in to get there and
to grow there together. That's where you start to run
into challenges. And so that's where it's regardless of the size,
because again it's not one size fits all for any firm,
even the big ones. It's not going to be that
one size fits all. It's really thinking about if I
don't have those expectations clarified for this particular team or
(11:46):
this particular individual, what more can I do beyond the
job description I've written to attract that talent to be
able to help them understand what it is that I'm
going to measure them against and what they're expected to do,
and then how do I help them develop based on that,
given the opportunities and where we want to go their
lines to the firm business.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
Strategy, that makes sense so in hiring, So if you know,
if you're looking at resumes, you know, there's just going
to be certain things that stand out, maybe someone's education,
previous experience. Beyond that, are there any things that you
look at kind of the ancillary things like if you say,
(12:26):
you know, here are a couple questions that you would
ask to a potential hiring you know, are you looking
for extracurriculars?
Speaker 4 (12:34):
Are there are there.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Things that you say, you know, because everybody says again
talent is so important, are there some secrets or some
some tactics that you would use in the hiring process
to go a little bit beyond what's just written on
the resume of experience, education kind of things.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
It's less about the extracurriculars, although it does certainly show
individuals that are very well But I think that's when
generationally you're looking at things, it's kind of figuring out
how much relevance that provides to the role that you're
hiring somebody to do for me, and the tools that
we use and the way that we focus on asking
(13:14):
questions that calibrate is not just doing the validation of
do they have the right skills for the job that
we're talking to them about and that we want to
help our clients hire them for. It's also looking to
understand the behavioral mindset and that mentality for the individual
and how that might map to the firm culture and
(13:34):
especially to the individuals that they would be working with. Again,
everyone is going to be different, and so the nuance
comes in where you get a really good sense of
is a team that we're hiring this group into a
group that likes to move really quickly and doesn't necessarily
need to get into the details and wants to hire
a professional that they can trust, whether it's a lawyer
(13:56):
or a business professional, to just move the needle forward
and going. Or are they looking for someone that because
they're a very micromanaged culture which there's no right or wrong,
but like to have the details and want to be
in the weeds with things because they feel this real
sense of ownership, especially in smaller firms, that they need
(14:16):
to find someone that's going to be okay with that
type of collaboration. It isn't so much of that boom autonomy.
Go do it and bring it back to us and
let us know what you got. Instead, it's we're pretty
prescribed and how we want things done. We need someone
to come help us move this forward, but we have
a clear sense of the direction we want to do.
So it's getting in and getting a sense of behaviorally,
(14:38):
how do the individuals map to the culture and the
overall structure and mindset of the groups that they'd be
hired into. So that's one thing, and having a good
recruiter that can kind of play that matchmaker, if you will,
is incredibly important when you're working to identify your talent.
The other piece is really getting a sense of understanding
how do people handle adversity when if they faced a
(15:00):
challenge that really is a challenge, and not just tell
me about the challenge, but help me understand what you
did to get through it, to overcome it. What are
the lessons that you learned from it, and how have
you adapted your choices, your behaviors, your actions based on
what you learned from that experience. Because those that can
give great examples and show that ability to adapt and
(15:21):
to learn from and have a growth mindset. Are the
ones where you know that they're not stuck in just now,
that they're continually looking for what's going forward. And that's
a great way to be able to market skills for anybody.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
So, if there's a change that you've seen, and I'm
assuming this, but I'm not sure it's true in legal
just because of all the advancements in technology, are there
positions now that you see law firms needing that they
may not have needed, you know, ten years ago or
even you know, five years ago, Or are there really
(15:56):
some just key blocks and components that you'd say, you know,
if you're growing your law firm, you know, these are
the types of talents that you need to look for.
Or are you telling people to have somebody who's more
in the technology side.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
You know, I've had people on this podcast that you know, are.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Talking about AI and how that can really help optimize
one employee to be you know, five x more efficient.
Are there things that you're seeing pop up as far
as looking for talent that you didn't see five or
ten years ago.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
There is definitely a higher elevation of the technology component
and being able to really lean and tap into a
vast industry of tools and services that are out there
that can really elevate what individuals are doing, regardless of
the role that they play. Obviously, when you talk about
something like jen Ai, there are going to be legal
(16:48):
considerations based on how it's being used within a firm
and how you know lawyers are delivering client services and
what that looks like to make sure that you know
the right legislation and laws are being applied from privacy, etc.
But when you think about how might you leverage technology,
and it's really leveraging and outsourcing technology to help provide efficiencies.
(17:14):
The concept is that where you want to go is
not just to I'm going to leverage a technology to
provide an efficiency, but what I want to do is
I want to tap into the individuals and the strategic minds,
that critical thinking, that strategic thinking that every individual human
is going to have as part of a team and
a firm, and be able to elevate them so that
(17:36):
technology is doing the redundant work and they're able to
really think about how they can show up in a
value added way while using technology at the same time,
so to go to your question of in the last
five to ten years, where has that adaption really come in.
There has been an increased awareness and use of data
(17:56):
and technology across all roles that you're bringing in that
doesn't have some level of technical skills that should map
to how your firm is being set up, even if
it's just basic collaboration skills, knowing how to use Microsoft Team, Zoom, Slack,
whatever it might be, just to collaborate in more virtual
environment that we operate in because we're not always in
(18:17):
the office day to day. That's a baseline, but then
being able to figure out both the strategies and the
technologies is really important when you look at the change
in the types of roles. Yeah, there's definitely been an evolution.
I think in the last twelve months we've certainly seen
an even bigger evolution when you think about data architects
(18:38):
and where firms are becoming more intelligent and sophisticated in
how they're actually using data in order to drive their
client strategy, their client experience strategy, sometimes their own talent strategy,
and how they're managing their people and then thinking about
what they need to do to help them identify where
they go to market next, or where they want to
expand or prioritize resources in a different area. The other
(19:00):
piece of that is being able to get your hands
around AI in a way that it does then supplement
and provide those efficiencies and optimization for your business professionals
and for your legal professionals, because the beauty of what
the tools out there can do really drive immense value
and free up time for people to use their brains
(19:22):
in a different and more meaningful way. But in order
to do it, it requires having knowledge about how to
use those tools, and so marketing teams and data teams
are starting to see more of a requirement for prompt engineers.
And if I'm building up an AI engine that I
want to use with my own firm, or even let's
say you want to have your firm of twenty people
(19:43):
leverage chat GPT on a regular basis, applicable to all
of the requirements and laws based on your client relationships,
how are you educating your teams to be able to
use that in the right way, How does that show up?
What does it look like? And having prompt engineers or
even just doing professional development for your own internal resources
to learn more about how to write the appropriate prompts
(20:05):
to get to that efficiency is incredibly valuable. So there
is certainly a sway towards the tech piece. There's also
a change in the business of law firms when it
comes to the talent space. And if you look at
firms across many industry, many areas and kind of am law,
you've got chief talent officers that maybe only focus on
(20:28):
the lawyers, and then you've got somebody that's responsible for professionals,
and there is a shift where they're looking at chief
people officers and really taking on that holistic mindset and
that approach that drove me from Accenture into this industry
to say, it's such your rich opportunity to really help
firms think about when you're developing who you are as
(20:50):
a business, because all firms are businesses, what are you
doing with your people's strategy to really elevate and create
that singular opportunity. It's not just about your lawyers. It's
about your lawyers and everyone else for one single group
of people that are ultimately driving the front forward. So
there's definitely been a shift beyond your traditional benefits, compensation,
(21:12):
employee relations, kind of compliance check the box. We've taken
care of. It all very important to administer employees, but
at the same time, there's a lot that can be
done for professional development and looking at employee engagement, D
and I and tying those strategies into the overall for
firm foundation culture and strategy too.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
So we've talked a lot about, you know, the outward
looking for hiring employees.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
What is the onboarding process or the beginning process of
you and your company working with the law firm. I
imagine there's there's a huge interview process where you're asking
for like five ten year goals and like, you know,
are you changing practices? You know, what's what's your biggest
practice area as far as you know.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
How lucive it is or how what the volume is.
How does that onboarding process for lack of a better
word work, You know, when you're just starting to work
with a firm about using your capabilities to help them grow.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
That's a great question. And I'm in a tailor. I
think some of it just a little bit to make
sure that I clarify. When we focus on doing executive
search for law firms, we don't focus on legal talent,
so we hire professionals for the firms rather than the lawyers.
We partner with a lot of firms that are looking
to help with associate and partner integration, you know, hiring,
(22:36):
those types of things, but we focus on the business
professional side where we get into some of those questions.
It's incredibly relevant and important for us to gather a
lot of that information, one from the stakeholders on the
firm side. First, to understand from the hiring committee whomever
that might be one or ten people, what is it
(22:56):
that they're looking for, and then bringing that relevance from
the candidates that we're speaking with into the conversation and
understanding what is really important when we think about revenue enablers,
the people that are working behind the scenes to drive
the law firm forward, and to really look at delivering
services to the lawyers that are out there bringing the
(23:18):
revenue in the door. It's focusing on understanding what does
that client experience look like for you, because ultimately, business
professionals clients are the lawyers in a firm, and so
that being an incredibly important piece of what we're looking
at from a contextual standpoint. You know, some firms may say, hey,
there's a peer in the market or the industry that
(23:40):
I'm really looking to follow because we know in this
industry firms like to follow quickly with things rather than
being the first one out there doing something, and that's
always insightful to help us understand where we need to
go to help develop that series of questions and the
data that we're trying to capture. But when you think
about the C suite hiring that we've done on CEO
(24:00):
COO CFOs, a lot of that comes into play because
asking questions around the things that they've done in their
portfolio of experience will help set up the view of
how they can then you know, push forward with any
of their strategic plans and how they're going to step
into align with what the firm is decided they want
(24:21):
to do, where they're looking at someone as a leader
to come in and really drive the ship as opposed
to figuring out where they need to steer the ship
or some combination of the two.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
So I'm wondering if you could give us because you've
given a really good, well rounded kind of idea of
what it is that you do, and it sounds like
there's a lot of details and moving parts of this
do you have a story you could share something that
would be an example of a success story of you know,
you know there was law firm A that was having
this issue, and you know that these were their main challenges,
(24:56):
and here's.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
How we help the director.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I always think a story helps, you know, the person
listening to this go oh, yeah, that's the problem that we're.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Having, and then they really understand how to solve for it.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah. Absolutely, So in this example, my story is going
to focus on our consulting practice and the partnerships that
we've had with a firm that had a relatively robust
marketing and business development team, and they came to me
and said, hey, obviously, post COVID, we've got some challenges
(25:30):
with being able to help our team stay connected and
engaged and really have a sense that we're here and
invested in developing them. Firm doesn't have a very robust
talent focus outside of just the HR strategy of making
sure that people have their benefits, are getting paid, and
are connected into some of the right things. So what
(25:51):
we need in order to retain this team is a
way to kind of anchor them to something that's very
meaningful to us as a department, but then also to
the firm so that we can then take and continue
to expand that while helping them understand where we want
to develop them, giving them an opportunity to stay connected, engaged,
and then you know, continuing to just kind of go
(26:12):
from there. So what we did is we stepped in
and partnered with them to go through and do stakeholder
interviews and really identified kind of that core of who
they are and how their culture shows up, how their
value shows up. What are those top traits and characteristics
that are important for people at this firm to be successful.
(26:32):
Then we developed competencies for them. So at the core
level and at a leadership level, if you want someone
to step into this business on day one, what is
it that they need in order to be successful? We
identified that with them, We defined it, and then we
applied that to every department function and every level within
the department to be able to give them a framework
(26:56):
for the careers and the professional development and growth opportunities
of the people that sat within that department. And a
year later, what came out of that was they were
able to very easily put together a business case to
promote three of the people on their team, and they
had four other people that came back and said, Hey,
in this frame work, I identified some areas where I
(27:17):
need to grow, and my leader agrees with me. So
you said as a firm that you were going to
invest in me so that I could continue to grow
my career. This is where I want to go get
professional development and training that's above and beyond what the
firm is offering to me. Help me get there, and
I'm going to hold your feet to the fire to
make it happen. And what's happened from that is in
(27:38):
that course of time, they've had zero attrition in the
team because people feel connected, they feel engaged, and so
being able to create just those types of strategies and
those frameworks to give people a way to anchor to
something important is really meaningful and drives value both from
an employee engagement and experience standpoint, but also from a
(28:01):
business at fiscal standpoint, because there's a lot of dollars
they've saved in the process of not having to focus
on refilling and hiring positions that people have left.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah, and it sounds I mean, it makes sense as
you explain it, like if everybody knows what their expectations are,
and I like how you kind of turned it back
on the firm at one point, Meaning if I'm a
new employee, you know, it's like the first day of school.
You know, it's like everything's so unknown. But it sounds
to me like you're building these really clear roadmaps. So
as an employee, I know exactly what's expected of me.
(28:34):
And then, like I said, the fact that you flip
around on the law firm and say, okay, now that
employee has some expectations of you.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
You've committed to do.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
This and helped them their career, They've gotten to the
year point or whatever it is, and now they want
this continued education. So yeah, I think that's that's really.
It eliminates a lot of the guesswork and maybe kind
of a fear, for lack of a better word, of
an employee of like what really am I supposed to
do here? I know what my title is, but what
(29:03):
does that all entail? And then gives people a clear
path and I'm assuming goals. You know that they're achieving
along the way where they're going to be measured against, and.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Also tapping into their own human ingenuity. Right, none of
us show up every day just to do our job today.
Most of us, especially in this industry where you're dealing
with incredibly high performance and really intelligent professionals, they're thinking
about tomorrow, they're thinking about six months from now, and
they don't have it mapped out. But if you are
giving them some view of a plan of where they
(29:35):
might be able to go, what they're going to put
into today will be elevated and at a higher level
than if you don't give them anything except for show
up and just do what I ask you to do today.
So thinking about that future and really having that future
focus drives that engagement because then people feel that there
is an investment in them, when they in turn invest
more in the firm. So you get this winning combination
(29:57):
that comes out of all of it.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, it sounds great, and as I mentioned, as you're
saying it, it makes perfect sense, but I think it's
really the hard work of building that on both sides,
building out the path for the employee and the expectations. Well, Haley,
thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. You obviously
have a ton of experience in this area. Is there
(30:20):
anything final thoughts you'd like to share with the audience
or places that they could contact you that we may
not know about.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Obviously. Our website also on LinkedIn. For me, again going
back to the beginning of our conversation, the reason that
I wanted to step in this into this industry was
after watching Calibrate for many years and seeing the evolution
of where they were taking the mindset of business professionals
and really driving home the value that they play as
(30:49):
revenue enablers in the firm. Seeing the opportunity to help
firms understand that when you look at a people experience
and a people's strategy, it's all people. And knowing that
Accentria is one of those places that's done it very
well for many, many years and bringing a lot of
that knowledge in is a journey where I see there's
a ton of exciting opportunity to partner with firms to
(31:10):
be able to help them with that. Whether they have
twenty people or two thousand people, it doesn't matter. It's
always important because the people are the core of everything
that we do.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Well.
Speaker 4 (31:22):
Thank you very much, Hailey, Thanks Eric.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Thanks for listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by
Market my Market. You can check out additional episodes and
recaps at Legalmastermind podcast, dot com
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