February 3, 2025 • 27 mins
Molly McGrath is Founder of Hiring and Empowering Solutions, LLC.
Molly has coached, consulted and directed presidents and founders of national organizations and over 5,000 law firms in; executive-level leadership, continuous improvement and team empowerment initiatives to infiltrate new markets, leveraging partner ecosystems and producing profitability.
Since 1997, Hiring & Empowering Solutions® has been the only team of management consultants offering hiring and training support to boutique law firms and “solopreneur” attorneys throughout the U.S.
Connect with Molly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-hallmcgrath/
Visit Hiring and Empowering Solutions: https://hiringandempowering.com/
On This Episode, We Discuss…
Molly has coached, consulted and directed presidents and founders of national organizations and over 5,000 law firms in; executive-level leadership, continuous improvement and team empowerment initiatives to infiltrate new markets, leveraging partner ecosystems and producing profitability.
Since 1997, Hiring & Empowering Solutions® has been the only team of management consultants offering hiring and training support to boutique law firms and “solopreneur” attorneys throughout the U.S.
Connect with Molly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/molly-hallmcgrath/
Visit Hiring and Empowering Solutions: https://hiringandempowering.com/
On This Episode, We Discuss…
- The Most Common Hiring Mistakes Law Firms Makes
- Why Your Receptionist is More Important Than You Think
- Practical Strategies to Improve Client Communication
- How to leverage digital platforms like LinkedIn for hiring and business development
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you have somebody sitting in your office, like, Eh,
they're good enough employee, and I don't know if they're
going to work out and they're driving me crazy, or
they're a rock star. I don't even need to manage him.
I would say, any of those situations, this solution is
the same. They need time, attention, and feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market
My Market, the go to podcast for learning from the
experts and the legal community about effective ways to grow
and manage your law firm.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast. Today,
my guest is Molly McGrath, who is the founder of
Hiring and Empowering Solutions. Molly, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited for our convo today.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So let's start off by giving the listeners a little
bit of a background on you and how you came
to found this company.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, so, I've been in the legal space for twenty
eight years now and started out working for a national
organization in Denver, Colorado, where I live, and really one
of the only legal organizations that I was aware of
for attorneys specific that invested in coaching personal and professional
(01:14):
and business coaching, and it was really fascinated. I was
hired to be an administrative assistant program organizer when they
launched a program in nineteen ninety seven. I'd go to
the conferences every quarter and there'd be attorneys standing up
at the mic, you know, sharing about their greatest pain point,
and one hundred percent of these business owners, law firm
(01:38):
owner operators would say business would be great but for
the employees. And then you know, at this conference they
were encouraged to bring their pair of legals, legal assistants,
sociate attorneys to go and breakout sessions, and then we'd
all go to the cocktail reception after and I talked
to the employees and they would say, my job would
(02:00):
be great if only my attorney would stop be in
a control freak and let go and trust me and
allow me to take over. Because I see how incredibly
stressed out they are, and so I'm like, hmm, there's
a massive disconnect here. They both want the same thing,
they're just not speaking the same language. So I get really,
really heavily invested in pouring into employees and to this day,
(02:24):
twenty seven years later, twenty eight years later, scour social media,
scour the internet. There are that I can find. No
training programs that pour into the support people, coaching, consulting,
you know, skill set, knowledge improvement, things at nature. So
I went on a mission. I've written three books, I
(02:45):
have a podcast, and I have a program called the
Law Firm m and boot Camp, which is like my
why and my passion project. And the other side of
my practice is flat fey retained search recruiting.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Can you walk us through the process of how you
coach someone on what to look for when hiring an employee?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, I love this question. I am passionate about hiring
because especially as small or solo or mid sized law firms,
I think we have this a little bit of head
trash that we can't compete with competition. People are going
to job hop to go to bigger firms. Sings to
that nature doing recruiting, especially in the post pandemic world,
(03:24):
And since twenty twenty, I cannot tell you how it
is such a glorious time for small, mid sized firms
because everybody was forced to sit on their couch take
stock of their life, where they spend their time, their
energy and what have you. My phone started blowing up
with the associate attorneys like get me out a big firm,
(03:45):
like I really want I want to get either. Some
wanted to leave the courtroom and do transactional side. Other
people wanted to go in the courtroom and stop being
a glorified paralegal. So everybody took stock of their life
and where they spend their time and what they do
with their time. It wasn't about Bill Blauer requirements. It
wasn't about bigger, better pay. It wasn't about the Cadillac
(04:07):
benefits of looking to be in a firm where they're
impact maker and a difference maker. And so if you
are looking for hiring, let's start with the hardest hire attorneys.
Unemployment rate right now is zero point four to three percent.
I don't say that to breathe fear in the room.
(04:28):
Pair of legals, unemployment rate last I took check was
one point two percent, and those numbers drastically decrease on
the para legal side if it's one hundred percent in house.
So it's really a great for law firm owners that
are looking to hire. Regardless of the position, I will
tell you do not try to do it yourself. You
(04:49):
can delegate it to a legal assistant. You can hire
somebody overseas in the Philippines. You don't have to necessarily
use a legal recruiter for the process. But here's the deal.
The moral story is time kills all deals, and it's
never been an ever truer in recruiting and staffing, especially
(05:10):
for law firms. Anybody who's a rock star is not
looking for a job. So the way you're going to
find people is passive candidates where they have the resume
floating around, or their profile floating around, or they have
any kind of digital footprint. And so when it comes
to recruiting, the days of throwing an AD up there
(05:31):
and it be written like a dissertation are done. It's
all got to be written for SEO, for SMO, and
it has to be written like a match dot com ad,
like you're trying to land your perfect partner. It has
to be short, sweet, to the point, and really, of
course you're not going to violate years of experience and
(05:51):
have to have an active law license and what have you.
But nowadays people have these things called smartphones, and they're
getting smarter and smarter by the minute. So if you
put an ad out there. They're going to get alert
if they have any profile, and all they have to
do is click interested. They're not reading your job description
at all, So don't even put time with the traditional jobscriptions, qualifications,
(06:17):
seat of seventeen bullet points. You know, requirements with seventeen
bullet points. No, you want to first two sentence, first paragraph,
really paint the picture of them walking through your office,
your culture. You know, we have a stock team of
legal assistance and paralegals. We invest in marketing, we invest
in personal and professional development, and so that's first and foremost.
(06:40):
The second thing I would say, you put the ad
out there. Now, you've got to have somebody on your
team going out and scouring the resume databases and indeed
and LinkedIn are the two platforms I would recommend for.
I wouldn't use Zip, Recruiter, Glass, store Monster, any of them.
They don't invest in technology and they really do not
(07:01):
have the resume database. So I would focus on those
two platforms and have someone an admin assistant going out
there and just inboxing passive candidates, going back to thematch
dot com reference. What we have our clients do is
make a little video happy to share a script with
you all anywhere three to five minutes or if you
(07:22):
have any professional ones that you do when you're working
with you know, a marketing agency, and then I know
you all do videos something off your YouTube channel and
inbox people the video. Most recruiters are lazy, they're using AI,
they're using these canned email boxes, and the video is
converting like crazy. Even if you're not competitive with unlimited
(07:46):
PTO Cadillac benefits, They're going to pick up on your energy.
They're going to pick up on your essence, They're going
to pick up on your tonality. They're going to pick
up on your background in the video. Seeing that you're not,
you know, sitting in a seven piece suit with the
scale SA Justice and a five hundred pound marble desk
and you're not smiling and you look completely unapproachable. You know,
(08:07):
you got to really infuse your energy in your essence.
Some of my greatest videos that I get from some
of my smaller firms, the attorney's like, we're growing, liking busters.
We hire this marketing company and the SEO is working
and blah blah blah, I can't keep up with it,
and I'm you know, we have more business and we
can handle. Please come work for me, And people are like,
(08:27):
I want to work for that guy.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
You have written about the five reasons why your law
firm's receptionist is more important than you think. Can you
expand on that?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes? Yeah, and I'm most passionate about that position first
and foremost, so assuming you hire right, and you hire
somebody who gets it once, it has a capacity for it.
They understand the director of first impression. They have no
trouble picking up the phone, they understand the chief happiness officer,
and all that your reason the reasons that your receptionists
(08:59):
is which I like to call the client's success coordinator
versus a receptionist, because the receptionist is almost like that
old school term a legal secretary or what have you.
It's not very empowering and embolding. So really naming conventions
mean everything, So really shifting it first and foremost into
(09:20):
a client success coordinator. They are the director of first
impressions in twenty seconds or less when for inbound and
outbound phone calls, clients are going to discern their experience
with your law firm. So when they're trained operight, it's
in their bones and their blood that they love people.
You know, front of the house usually likes people. Paralegals
(09:42):
like paper and buy and large, so they have to
love people and they have to have a servant leader heart.
So number one, when they know that and they understand
that that they're going to get the client to the
next right step in your process, register for workshop, weaponar
resultation free paid on whatever it might be. They understand
(10:04):
that their job because if they can't give people into
your process, your job as an attorney is absolutely irrelevant
because you have empty conference terms, you have no clients,
you have empty calendars. So when they fully understand that
for inbound, that's number one. Number two they're the most
important because when they understand intake and data and information
(10:28):
analytics and they capture every single lead where they came from,
what they did. I can't tell you how many receptionists
that I talked to and they're not capturing every lead
that comes in. They're only capturing the ones at book
a console and now marketing. Marketing needs intake and receptionists
(10:51):
to be a team member of the marketing team because
marketing needs that data and information so they could pivot
in real time about you. But I always hear from attorneys. Oh,
our marketing agency is terrible. They send us garbage leads.
We're not getting enough leads blah blah blah. And then
I get the report. I'm like, you're basing this on emotions.
(11:12):
You have absolutely no data from your intake team, from
your receptionist, from your client services coordinators. So when I
can train them up into how to understand that that
the reporting and analytics for every lead generation and then
lead conversion into this step. The third reason, when they
understand it's their job to convert them into the first step.
(11:37):
So conversions people always believe is console to hire. Well,
reception or intake is a new buzzword in the legal space.
Is one hundred percent from lead coming in digitally socially
however it comes in and tracking that conversion to taking
the next step in the move now if they don't
(11:59):
need to think about it blah blah blah, then their
next activity of how they're a money generator and their
KPI is attached, that is follow up. They understand the
phone will make you rich. Most people leave lean on
automation and AI, which I'm a huge fan of, coupled
with human coupled with somebody who's going to pick up
(12:20):
the phone. And they have a goal every single day,
and then next is a understand a KPI. Others cut
down on cancelations, no shows, some reschedules, so they're completely
you know, so go the calendar, So go cash flow.
I always say they are a production cop to the
bone with mastering that calendar. They understand or ideal week.
(12:44):
They know how many leads you need, how many conversions,
how many consoles, how many hires, and all that pressure
is not just on the attorneys, which we typically. I
just had a law firm tell me this day that
they're like, well, the only way we make revenues from
bill hours and attorneys and pair of legals. I'm like,
I track a receptionist all day long, and the B
(13:08):
plus average person when they understand those five key roles,
they're generating twenty five thousand dollars in average on a
month before the client even gets at the conference room,
before the attorney's metric or non attorney salesperson in the
higher rates. When done right, the average intake call is
taking anywhere from A P and C from twelve to
(13:31):
nineteen minutes, and they can hear money is energy and
we're all responsible for the energy we bring in a
room and leave in a room so they can hear
your resentment and frustration. And that is typically because somebody's
wearing three hats. Intake reception is legal assistant, paralegal, maybe
(13:54):
bookkeeper too. The greatest investment you can make in your
firm is to leave your receptionists in take team alone.
Do not cloud pre engagement and post engagement. They should
not be owing the file now. If they're responsible for
scanning and getting documents out in a timely manner, is
(14:15):
in your best interest that they time chunk that. And
if they're doing an hour production with finally scanning whatever
it might be, which I still think it's better to
get an intern or law clerk for that, make sure
they time chunk and somebody's carrying the phones for them
or covering the phones for them, because that's my biggest
complaint too. It's like, okay, you're going to hire an
(14:37):
outsource phone service, right receptionist, which I spot check and
call them every single day. And they're even worse than
law firm because they make you go through torture. Especially
let's talk about if you're doing probate HI, how do
you spell your name? Let me repeat it back to you.
(15:00):
Let me repeat back your last name. It is four
point five minutes before you get to the perspective. Client's
pain point. I can't find a law firm that I
can get under four point five minutes versus somebody who's
dedicated in that position. And that's all they do. And
they answer the phone and say, we're so grateful that
(15:20):
you picked our law firm and called us today. This
is Sarah. How can I serve you? Not how can
I help you? It's how can I serve you? Just
like the video with the clients or the employees that
came in, they're like, when you said that one thing?
And I make all my law firms answer the phone
with thank you, And it's the inflection like, thank you
(15:43):
for calling here today. This is Sarah. How can I
serve you? Like with the compassion, the empathy, you are
in the right place. I cannot tell you how many compliments.
When they book the appointment and then the attorney gets
in the consultation, they're like, why'd you go with our
law firm? First of all, you're the only one who
didn't have an answering service. Second of all, you're the
(16:04):
only ones who picked up the phone. And third of all,
when I called Sarah, oh my gosh, like they'll walk
in for their consultation and they're like Sarah and they'll
give her a hug. Do you think that deal's not done?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Do you have some general advice that you can give?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So what I do, again, if you have an admin
in team or somebody that can shoulder the portion, is
do a phone interview first and foremost. So what I
do is try to get their phone number, or after
they responded the video, I'm like, hey, real quick, can
you call me between two and four today? I just
like to do a ten minute make sure we're talking
this right. Money benefits all that jazz and so it's
(16:43):
wonderful when you call, when you hear them call you
right and is sometimes they don't call you, so it
shows you how they don't have follow through, how they're
generally not interested. I can't tell you how many people
have said yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll call you, and then
they'll text me five minutes after the call was supposed
to start. Sari I took another offer or sorry, I'm
(17:04):
not interested anymore. So you're freeing up the attorney from lots,
so you see people's behaviors, especially what I like about
the attorney not doing their own recruiting. Even if it's
the HR manager. Then for some reason candidate thinks you're
working for them and befriending them, so they're more relaxed.
(17:25):
So that's Number one is save yourself a ton of time.
I can't tell you how many attorneys still like schedule
one hour interviews when they haven't even seen how the person.
So that's five minute phone interview, ten minute phone interview
that's framed like a meet and great, and you'll see
people's behavior. They show up late, they ditch you at
the last minute. What have you You booked ten calls?
(17:48):
Probably three are going to show up and actually be professional,
So you saved yourself a lot of time they pass at.
Then I would do a zoom interview and in there
it's really great, even if it's a in person positions,
save your time and travel and all that, and meet
in the zoomer interview. I say, throughout all those canned questions,
(18:09):
I would not go through their resume. I would really
have a heart to heart, human to humans so you
could see how they handle things, so you could pick
out certain pieces. So I see that you've been a
litigator for five years now, but you've never set that
first chair. Tell me a little bit of why you
think that is. You know, just really you want to
(18:31):
think of their job description and the things are going
to take off your plate and the difference are going
to make in that role and kind of walk through
their days and their job descriptions and ask them duties
from that, so things of that nature. I see you
don't really have any CRM experience on here. Tell me
what you did? How did you run your day? How
(18:51):
did you manage your day when you had you know,
client meetings, you had hearings, you had mediations, you had
what have you? Tell me how you navigated your day?
Tell me how you navigated when the managing partner whoever
it might be, was supposed to review documents and they
don't get back to you, and they're the biggest bottleneck
and the business. But you have a ten million dollar
(19:12):
case sitting on your docket that you know you can close.
What do you do to fight for the client? And
sometimes you even have to go to your boss and
pin them down and be like review this right now,
there's money sitting here. Tell me how you handle that,
Tell me how you work with your pair of legals
and your legal assistance. You want to get to places
like that. And then you also want to hear about
(19:34):
their family, because you're interviewing the whole family. So tell
me a little bit about your family life, your situation,
what you do for a free time, what have you.
And then you be quiet because here's the thing like, oh,
my wife worked for a startup or what have you.
Her parents just moved to California. She's nine months pregnant.
(19:56):
You're like, ding, ding ding, this guy's going to California.
There's no way his wife is not ruling the roost
on this one. The first grand baby's going to California.
I had to interview this morning with an attorney and
they're like, you know, they're asking me, is a position remote?
I said, it's hybrid? How many days hybred? And then
(20:17):
it really I boiled them down. I'm like, I have
to be honest. I'm really hearing from you that you
want a remote position. Her husband works remote. You know,
they have a small child now that is going to
pre k and stuff like that, and she's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
We hung up the phone and then she sent me
(20:38):
an email at one o'clock in the morning. She's like, Molly,
I can't stop thinking about I love you. I liked
the law firm, and I can't do this today. I
will leave for a remote position if I'm offered it
for more money and it's remote, I know I will,
So I'm gonna withdrawal.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Are there any things that you've picked up in all
your experience, the things that you can look for.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes. The first reason that they're really great in the
interview is because you're making about skills and knowledge and experience.
Typically I would say, don't even go to the resume
until you bring them in for the in person interview
or the second interview. I would say, because with each
step in the process now it has to be tight
(21:18):
because time kills all deal. If they're a rock star,
they got multiple offers on the table. But to your point,
my experience with that for the most part is because
we're interviewing from skills, knowledge and experience in the resume
versus the human stuff. You know. I've had people that
have said, well, when you ask me, why attract me
(21:40):
to estate planning? Like it literally just brought me back
to my parents' divorce and my husband just gave me
divorce papers last week. So I was afraid I was
going to break down in this interview and really share
that right now. So I played it safe to get
my composure together. And then you're like, you're hired like
because they're vulnerable, they're real, they're raw, they're authentic, and
(22:04):
they explain why their behavior. Most times people are like,
you know what, I love that you even notice that
because you're an employer who's present. You're an employer that's
seeing something and you're naming it in real time because
you're deeply curious. You're invested in this two sided relationship,
and that shows me that you're a pretty cool dude
(22:25):
to work for because you're you're like, what just happened?
What's up?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So if you could talk to to the attorneys now,
the managing partners of the firm, what advice would you
give them?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, My message to entrepreneurs, to managing attorneys or what
have you is, first and foremost, like employees are interviewing
you as much as you're interviewing them, and your employees
really don't want a job. Pop I hear this every
single day. They're looking for a forever home that they
could the reason they leave, it's not because the work alone,
(23:00):
not because of the requirements anything of that nature. You
have to remember you're hiring human beings first and foremost,
and human doing second. This is why I interviewed this way,
and what I would say to the attorneys is that
it's this simple. If you have somebody sitting in your office,
they're like, they're a good enough employee and I don't
(23:22):
know if they're going to work out and they're driving
me crazy whatever, or there's there're a rock star, I
don't even need to manage them, I would say. Any
of those situations, the solution is the same. They need time, attention,
and feedback. That's it, truly. So the biggest mistake I
see for managing attorneys is in business owners too, And
(23:47):
my wish is that you could shift your mindset that
your employees need your time and you need to treat
them like an internal client. Give them the same respect
and grace and time and press since that you do
for paying client meeting. And it's very simple. Set up
a structure where you're doing weekly, you know, team meetings
(24:09):
with them daily huddles with them, quarterly employee growth blends,
or reviews. It doesn't even have to be you, if
you're fortunate enough to have a C suite framework within
or a business leader. But they want feedback, they want coaching.
They want to know that they're a difference maker. They
want to know when they're knocking down the park, when
(24:31):
they're missing the mark. And the most important question you
can consistently ask them when you're spending time from them
is what are you not seeing in me as your leader,
as your boss that you wish you could see more of?
And then be quiet and listen and be present and
acknowledge it the same way you want them to acknowledge
(24:53):
the pncs that are calling in your office, and then
figure out the next right move. You know, I really
like that you said that, or what have you. I'd
like to schedule some time, whether it's with the department,
process improvement, whatever it might be, individual and then make
sure you follow through. I hear from business owners all
the time, is I need someone batteries included, I don't
(25:16):
have time to train them, blah blah blah. I'm like, great,
assume they come with a skill set. The knowledge, the experience,
all that, but there's still a human being and you're
in the personal service industry, and you serve in the
personal service industry. This is not e comm and you
have to spend time with your people and it needs
to be authentic and not check the box that you're
(25:39):
showing up at the happy hour from four to five
and then do an Irish exit.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Well, Mollie, I can't thank you enough for sharing all
this information with the listeners. Is there any parting wisdom
that you'd like to leave everybody with or if at
least ways to get a hold of you.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah. Absolutely, easiest way to get a hold of us
go to our website Hiring and Empowering dot com. You
can in we drop a podcasts every Tuesday, every Thursday, blog,
and every Saturday. I do like a three to five
minute pocket coaching on what your employees are thinking. So
just to give you some nuggets to create a two
millimeter shift and in parting wisdom, I would just say
(26:18):
it really warms my heart how many employees are sitting
in law firms across the world silently waiting for their
boss to talk to them and to have conversations with them.
So they can actually tell them where they see that
they can step up and lead. They always saying I
(26:38):
am nobody to delegate, nobody will step up and lead,
And they're sitting there, siglent, but they see you running
around the office and always so busy and never approachable
and never available. And as my coach always says, the
answer is in the room. And the answer is in
your room, your office, at your front desk, at your cubicles,
within your legal adminte. They're the ones on the front line.
(27:01):
And if you're feeling frustration or niggle or break down,
go talk to them first and foremost and let them
know you really want their insight.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Thanks for listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast, presented by
Market my Market. You can check out additional episodes and
recaps at Legalmastermind podcast dot com.
If you have somebody sitting in your office, like, Eh,
they're good enough employee, and I don't know if they're
going to work out and they're driving me crazy, or
they're a rock star. I don't even need to manage him.
I would say, any of those situations, this solution is
the same. They need time, attention, and feedback.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast presented by Market
My Market, the go to podcast for learning from the
experts and the legal community about effective ways to grow
and manage your law firm.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Legal Mastermind podcast. Today,
my guest is Molly McGrath, who is the founder of
Hiring and Empowering Solutions. Molly, Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Thanks for having me. I'm excited for our convo today.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So let's start off by giving the listeners a little
bit of a background on you and how you came
to found this company.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yes, so, I've been in the legal space for twenty
eight years now and started out working for a national
organization in Denver, Colorado, where I live, and really one
of the only legal organizations that I was aware of
for attorneys specific that invested in coaching personal and professional
(01:14):
and business coaching, and it was really fascinated. I was
hired to be an administrative assistant program organizer when they
launched a program in nineteen ninety seven. I'd go to
the conferences every quarter and there'd be attorneys standing up
at the mic, you know, sharing about their greatest pain point,
and one hundred percent of these business owners, law firm
(01:38):
owner operators would say business would be great but for
the employees. And then you know, at this conference they
were encouraged to bring their pair of legals, legal assistants,
sociate attorneys to go and breakout sessions, and then we'd
all go to the cocktail reception after and I talked
to the employees and they would say, my job would
(02:00):
be great if only my attorney would stop be in
a control freak and let go and trust me and
allow me to take over. Because I see how incredibly
stressed out they are, and so I'm like, hmm, there's
a massive disconnect here. They both want the same thing,
they're just not speaking the same language. So I get really,
really heavily invested in pouring into employees and to this day,
(02:24):
twenty seven years later, twenty eight years later, scour social media,
scour the internet. There are that I can find. No
training programs that pour into the support people, coaching, consulting,
you know, skill set, knowledge improvement, things at nature. So
I went on a mission. I've written three books, I
(02:45):
have a podcast, and I have a program called the
Law Firm m and boot Camp, which is like my
why and my passion project. And the other side of
my practice is flat fey retained search recruiting.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Can you walk us through the process of how you
coach someone on what to look for when hiring an employee?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Yeah, I love this question. I am passionate about hiring
because especially as small or solo or mid sized law firms,
I think we have this a little bit of head
trash that we can't compete with competition. People are going
to job hop to go to bigger firms. Sings to
that nature doing recruiting, especially in the post pandemic world,
(03:24):
And since twenty twenty, I cannot tell you how it
is such a glorious time for small, mid sized firms
because everybody was forced to sit on their couch take
stock of their life, where they spend their time, their
energy and what have you. My phone started blowing up
with the associate attorneys like get me out a big firm,
(03:45):
like I really want I want to get either. Some
wanted to leave the courtroom and do transactional side. Other
people wanted to go in the courtroom and stop being
a glorified paralegal. So everybody took stock of their life
and where they spend their time and what they do
with their time. It wasn't about Bill Blauer requirements. It
wasn't about bigger, better pay. It wasn't about the Cadillac
(04:07):
benefits of looking to be in a firm where they're
impact maker and a difference maker. And so if you
are looking for hiring, let's start with the hardest hire attorneys.
Unemployment rate right now is zero point four to three percent.
I don't say that to breathe fear in the room.
(04:28):
Pair of legals, unemployment rate last I took check was
one point two percent, and those numbers drastically decrease on
the para legal side if it's one hundred percent in house.
So it's really a great for law firm owners that
are looking to hire. Regardless of the position, I will
tell you do not try to do it yourself. You
(04:49):
can delegate it to a legal assistant. You can hire
somebody overseas in the Philippines. You don't have to necessarily
use a legal recruiter for the process. But here's the deal.
The moral story is time kills all deals, and it's
never been an ever truer in recruiting and staffing, especially
(05:10):
for law firms. Anybody who's a rock star is not
looking for a job. So the way you're going to
find people is passive candidates where they have the resume
floating around, or their profile floating around, or they have
any kind of digital footprint. And so when it comes
to recruiting, the days of throwing an AD up there
(05:31):
and it be written like a dissertation are done. It's
all got to be written for SEO, for SMO, and
it has to be written like a match dot com ad,
like you're trying to land your perfect partner. It has
to be short, sweet, to the point, and really, of
course you're not going to violate years of experience and
(05:51):
have to have an active law license and what have you.
But nowadays people have these things called smartphones, and they're
getting smarter and smarter by the minute. So if you
put an ad out there. They're going to get alert
if they have any profile, and all they have to
do is click interested. They're not reading your job description
at all, So don't even put time with the traditional jobscriptions, qualifications,
(06:17):
seat of seventeen bullet points. You know, requirements with seventeen
bullet points. No, you want to first two sentence, first paragraph,
really paint the picture of them walking through your office,
your culture. You know, we have a stock team of
legal assistance and paralegals. We invest in marketing, we invest
in personal and professional development, and so that's first and foremost.
(06:40):
The second thing I would say, you put the ad
out there. Now, you've got to have somebody on your
team going out and scouring the resume databases and indeed
and LinkedIn are the two platforms I would recommend for.
I wouldn't use Zip, Recruiter, Glass, store Monster, any of them.
They don't invest in technology and they really do not
(07:01):
have the resume database. So I would focus on those
two platforms and have someone an admin assistant going out
there and just inboxing passive candidates, going back to thematch
dot com reference. What we have our clients do is
make a little video happy to share a script with
you all anywhere three to five minutes or if you
(07:22):
have any professional ones that you do when you're working
with you know, a marketing agency, and then I know
you all do videos something off your YouTube channel and
inbox people the video. Most recruiters are lazy, they're using AI,
they're using these canned email boxes, and the video is
converting like crazy. Even if you're not competitive with unlimited
(07:46):
PTO Cadillac benefits, They're going to pick up on your energy.
They're going to pick up on your essence, They're going
to pick up on your tonality. They're going to pick
up on your background in the video. Seeing that you're not,
you know, sitting in a seven piece suit with the
scale SA Justice and a five hundred pound marble desk
and you're not smiling and you look completely unapproachable. You know,
(08:07):
you got to really infuse your energy in your essence.
Some of my greatest videos that I get from some
of my smaller firms, the attorney's like, we're growing, liking busters.
We hire this marketing company and the SEO is working
and blah blah blah, I can't keep up with it,
and I'm you know, we have more business and we
can handle. Please come work for me, And people are like,
(08:27):
I want to work for that guy.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
You have written about the five reasons why your law
firm's receptionist is more important than you think. Can you
expand on that?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yes? Yeah, and I'm most passionate about that position first
and foremost, so assuming you hire right, and you hire
somebody who gets it once, it has a capacity for it.
They understand the director of first impression. They have no
trouble picking up the phone, they understand the chief happiness officer,
and all that your reason the reasons that your receptionists
(08:59):
is which I like to call the client's success coordinator
versus a receptionist, because the receptionist is almost like that
old school term a legal secretary or what have you.
It's not very empowering and embolding. So really naming conventions
mean everything, So really shifting it first and foremost into
(09:20):
a client success coordinator. They are the director of first
impressions in twenty seconds or less when for inbound and
outbound phone calls, clients are going to discern their experience
with your law firm. So when they're trained operight, it's
in their bones and their blood that they love people.
You know, front of the house usually likes people. Paralegals
(09:42):
like paper and buy and large, so they have to
love people and they have to have a servant leader heart.
So number one, when they know that and they understand
that that they're going to get the client to the
next right step in your process, register for workshop, weaponar
resultation free paid on whatever it might be. They understand
(10:04):
that their job because if they can't give people into
your process, your job as an attorney is absolutely irrelevant
because you have empty conference terms, you have no clients,
you have empty calendars. So when they fully understand that
for inbound, that's number one. Number two they're the most
important because when they understand intake and data and information
(10:28):
analytics and they capture every single lead where they came from,
what they did. I can't tell you how many receptionists
that I talked to and they're not capturing every lead
that comes in. They're only capturing the ones at book
a console and now marketing. Marketing needs intake and receptionists
(10:51):
to be a team member of the marketing team because
marketing needs that data and information so they could pivot
in real time about you. But I always hear from attorneys. Oh,
our marketing agency is terrible. They send us garbage leads.
We're not getting enough leads blah blah blah. And then
I get the report. I'm like, you're basing this on emotions.
(11:12):
You have absolutely no data from your intake team, from
your receptionist, from your client services coordinators. So when I
can train them up into how to understand that that
the reporting and analytics for every lead generation and then
lead conversion into this step. The third reason, when they
understand it's their job to convert them into the first step.
(11:37):
So conversions people always believe is console to hire. Well,
reception or intake is a new buzzword in the legal space.
Is one hundred percent from lead coming in digitally socially
however it comes in and tracking that conversion to taking
the next step in the move now if they don't
(11:59):
need to think about it blah blah blah, then their
next activity of how they're a money generator and their
KPI is attached, that is follow up. They understand the
phone will make you rich. Most people leave lean on
automation and AI, which I'm a huge fan of, coupled
with human coupled with somebody who's going to pick up
(12:20):
the phone. And they have a goal every single day,
and then next is a understand a KPI. Others cut
down on cancelations, no shows, some reschedules, so they're completely
you know, so go the calendar, So go cash flow.
I always say they are a production cop to the
bone with mastering that calendar. They understand or ideal week.
(12:44):
They know how many leads you need, how many conversions,
how many consoles, how many hires, and all that pressure
is not just on the attorneys, which we typically. I
just had a law firm tell me this day that
they're like, well, the only way we make revenues from
bill hours and attorneys and pair of legals. I'm like,
I track a receptionist all day long, and the B
(13:08):
plus average person when they understand those five key roles,
they're generating twenty five thousand dollars in average on a
month before the client even gets at the conference room,
before the attorney's metric or non attorney salesperson in the
higher rates. When done right, the average intake call is
taking anywhere from A P and C from twelve to
(13:31):
nineteen minutes, and they can hear money is energy and
we're all responsible for the energy we bring in a
room and leave in a room so they can hear
your resentment and frustration. And that is typically because somebody's
wearing three hats. Intake reception is legal assistant, paralegal, maybe
(13:54):
bookkeeper too. The greatest investment you can make in your
firm is to leave your receptionists in take team alone.
Do not cloud pre engagement and post engagement. They should
not be owing the file now. If they're responsible for
scanning and getting documents out in a timely manner, is
(14:15):
in your best interest that they time chunk that. And
if they're doing an hour production with finally scanning whatever
it might be, which I still think it's better to
get an intern or law clerk for that, make sure
they time chunk and somebody's carrying the phones for them
or covering the phones for them, because that's my biggest
complaint too. It's like, okay, you're going to hire an
(14:37):
outsource phone service, right receptionist, which I spot check and
call them every single day. And they're even worse than
law firm because they make you go through torture. Especially
let's talk about if you're doing probate HI, how do
you spell your name? Let me repeat it back to you.
(15:00):
Let me repeat back your last name. It is four
point five minutes before you get to the perspective. Client's
pain point. I can't find a law firm that I
can get under four point five minutes versus somebody who's
dedicated in that position. And that's all they do. And
they answer the phone and say, we're so grateful that
(15:20):
you picked our law firm and called us today. This
is Sarah. How can I serve you? Not how can
I help you? It's how can I serve you? Just
like the video with the clients or the employees that
came in, they're like, when you said that one thing?
And I make all my law firms answer the phone
with thank you, And it's the inflection like, thank you
(15:43):
for calling here today. This is Sarah. How can I
serve you? Like with the compassion, the empathy, you are
in the right place. I cannot tell you how many compliments.
When they book the appointment and then the attorney gets
in the consultation, they're like, why'd you go with our
law firm? First of all, you're the only one who
didn't have an answering service. Second of all, you're the
(16:04):
only ones who picked up the phone. And third of all,
when I called Sarah, oh my gosh, like they'll walk
in for their consultation and they're like Sarah and they'll
give her a hug. Do you think that deal's not done?
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Do you have some general advice that you can give?
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So what I do, again, if you have an admin
in team or somebody that can shoulder the portion, is
do a phone interview first and foremost. So what I
do is try to get their phone number, or after
they responded the video, I'm like, hey, real quick, can
you call me between two and four today? I just
like to do a ten minute make sure we're talking
this right. Money benefits all that jazz and so it's
(16:43):
wonderful when you call, when you hear them call you
right and is sometimes they don't call you, so it
shows you how they don't have follow through, how they're
generally not interested. I can't tell you how many people
have said yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll call you, and then
they'll text me five minutes after the call was supposed
to start. Sari I took another offer or sorry, I'm
(17:04):
not interested anymore. So you're freeing up the attorney from lots,
so you see people's behaviors, especially what I like about
the attorney not doing their own recruiting. Even if it's
the HR manager. Then for some reason candidate thinks you're
working for them and befriending them, so they're more relaxed.
(17:25):
So that's Number one is save yourself a ton of time.
I can't tell you how many attorneys still like schedule
one hour interviews when they haven't even seen how the person.
So that's five minute phone interview, ten minute phone interview
that's framed like a meet and great, and you'll see
people's behavior. They show up late, they ditch you at
the last minute. What have you You booked ten calls?
(17:48):
Probably three are going to show up and actually be professional,
So you saved yourself a lot of time they pass at.
Then I would do a zoom interview and in there
it's really great, even if it's a in person positions,
save your time and travel and all that, and meet
in the zoomer interview. I say, throughout all those canned questions,
(18:09):
I would not go through their resume. I would really
have a heart to heart, human to humans so you
could see how they handle things, so you could pick
out certain pieces. So I see that you've been a
litigator for five years now, but you've never set that
first chair. Tell me a little bit of why you
think that is. You know, just really you want to
(18:31):
think of their job description and the things are going
to take off your plate and the difference are going
to make in that role and kind of walk through
their days and their job descriptions and ask them duties
from that, so things of that nature. I see you
don't really have any CRM experience on here. Tell me
what you did? How did you run your day? How
(18:51):
did you manage your day when you had you know,
client meetings, you had hearings, you had mediations, you had
what have you? Tell me how you navigated your day?
Tell me how you navigated when the managing partner whoever
it might be, was supposed to review documents and they
don't get back to you, and they're the biggest bottleneck
and the business. But you have a ten million dollar
(19:12):
case sitting on your docket that you know you can close.
What do you do to fight for the client? And
sometimes you even have to go to your boss and
pin them down and be like review this right now,
there's money sitting here. Tell me how you handle that,
Tell me how you work with your pair of legals
and your legal assistance. You want to get to places
like that. And then you also want to hear about
(19:34):
their family, because you're interviewing the whole family. So tell
me a little bit about your family life, your situation,
what you do for a free time, what have you.
And then you be quiet because here's the thing like, oh,
my wife worked for a startup or what have you.
Her parents just moved to California. She's nine months pregnant.
(19:56):
You're like, ding, ding ding, this guy's going to California.
There's no way his wife is not ruling the roost
on this one. The first grand baby's going to California.
I had to interview this morning with an attorney and
they're like, you know, they're asking me, is a position remote?
I said, it's hybrid? How many days hybred? And then
(20:17):
it really I boiled them down. I'm like, I have
to be honest. I'm really hearing from you that you
want a remote position. Her husband works remote. You know,
they have a small child now that is going to
pre k and stuff like that, and she's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
We hung up the phone and then she sent me
(20:38):
an email at one o'clock in the morning. She's like, Molly,
I can't stop thinking about I love you. I liked
the law firm, and I can't do this today. I
will leave for a remote position if I'm offered it
for more money and it's remote, I know I will,
So I'm gonna withdrawal.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Are there any things that you've picked up in all
your experience, the things that you can look for.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yes. The first reason that they're really great in the
interview is because you're making about skills and knowledge and experience.
Typically I would say, don't even go to the resume
until you bring them in for the in person interview
or the second interview. I would say, because with each
step in the process now it has to be tight
(21:18):
because time kills all deal. If they're a rock star,
they got multiple offers on the table. But to your point,
my experience with that for the most part is because
we're interviewing from skills, knowledge and experience in the resume
versus the human stuff. You know. I've had people that
have said, well, when you ask me, why attract me
(21:40):
to estate planning? Like it literally just brought me back
to my parents' divorce and my husband just gave me
divorce papers last week. So I was afraid I was
going to break down in this interview and really share
that right now. So I played it safe to get
my composure together. And then you're like, you're hired like
because they're vulnerable, they're real, they're raw, they're authentic, and
(22:04):
they explain why their behavior. Most times people are like,
you know what, I love that you even notice that
because you're an employer who's present. You're an employer that's
seeing something and you're naming it in real time because
you're deeply curious. You're invested in this two sided relationship,
and that shows me that you're a pretty cool dude
(22:25):
to work for because you're you're like, what just happened?
What's up?
Speaker 3 (22:30):
So if you could talk to to the attorneys now,
the managing partners of the firm, what advice would you
give them?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, My message to entrepreneurs, to managing attorneys or what
have you is, first and foremost, like employees are interviewing
you as much as you're interviewing them, and your employees
really don't want a job. Pop I hear this every
single day. They're looking for a forever home that they
could the reason they leave, it's not because the work alone,
(23:00):
not because of the requirements anything of that nature. You
have to remember you're hiring human beings first and foremost,
and human doing second. This is why I interviewed this way,
and what I would say to the attorneys is that
it's this simple. If you have somebody sitting in your office,
they're like, they're a good enough employee and I don't
(23:22):
know if they're going to work out and they're driving
me crazy whatever, or there's there're a rock star, I
don't even need to manage them, I would say. Any
of those situations, the solution is the same. They need time, attention,
and feedback. That's it, truly. So the biggest mistake I
see for managing attorneys is in business owners too, And
(23:47):
my wish is that you could shift your mindset that
your employees need your time and you need to treat
them like an internal client. Give them the same respect
and grace and time and press since that you do
for paying client meeting. And it's very simple. Set up
a structure where you're doing weekly, you know, team meetings
(24:09):
with them daily huddles with them, quarterly employee growth blends,
or reviews. It doesn't even have to be you, if
you're fortunate enough to have a C suite framework within
or a business leader. But they want feedback, they want coaching.
They want to know that they're a difference maker. They
want to know when they're knocking down the park, when
(24:31):
they're missing the mark. And the most important question you
can consistently ask them when you're spending time from them
is what are you not seeing in me as your leader,
as your boss that you wish you could see more of?
And then be quiet and listen and be present and
acknowledge it the same way you want them to acknowledge
(24:53):
the pncs that are calling in your office, and then
figure out the next right move. You know, I really
like that you said that, or what have you. I'd
like to schedule some time, whether it's with the department,
process improvement, whatever it might be, individual and then make
sure you follow through. I hear from business owners all
the time, is I need someone batteries included, I don't
(25:16):
have time to train them, blah blah blah. I'm like, great,
assume they come with a skill set. The knowledge, the experience,
all that, but there's still a human being and you're
in the personal service industry, and you serve in the
personal service industry. This is not e comm and you
have to spend time with your people and it needs
to be authentic and not check the box that you're
(25:39):
showing up at the happy hour from four to five
and then do an Irish exit.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Well, Mollie, I can't thank you enough for sharing all
this information with the listeners. Is there any parting wisdom
that you'd like to leave everybody with or if at
least ways to get a hold of you.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah. Absolutely, easiest way to get a hold of us
go to our website Hiring and Empowering dot com. You
can in we drop a podcasts every Tuesday, every Thursday, blog,
and every Saturday. I do like a three to five
minute pocket coaching on what your employees are thinking. So
just to give you some nuggets to create a two
millimeter shift and in parting wisdom, I would just say
(26:18):
it really warms my heart how many employees are sitting
in law firms across the world silently waiting for their
boss to talk to them and to have conversations with them.
So they can actually tell them where they see that
they can step up and lead. They always saying I
(26:38):
am nobody to delegate, nobody will step up and lead,
And they're sitting there, siglent, but they see you running
around the office and always so busy and never approachable
and never available. And as my coach always says, the
answer is in the room. And the answer is in
your room, your office, at your front desk, at your cubicles,
within your legal adminte. They're the ones on the front line.
(27:01):
And if you're feeling frustration or niggle or break down,
go talk to them first and foremost and let them
know you really want their insight.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Thanks for listening to the Legal Mastermind podcast, presented by
Market my Market. You can check out additional episodes and
recaps at Legalmastermind podcast dot com.
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