August 6, 2025 • 22 mins
We talk about the very sensitive subject of politics and homosexuals. Julie gives her views on homosexuality from the evolutionary perspective and touches on the new research that hormone disruptors may be responsible for sexual differences and transgender characteristics. We look at the issues with shame versus pride, especially how sensitivity restricts scientific inquiry. The libertarian principle of live and let live, and pride in achievement rather than identity, are discussed.
Clip Used:
The #1 Reason Humans Are Suddenly being Born Genderless | Dr. Shanna Swan
By: Danny Jones
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All audio & videos edited by: Jay Prescott Videography
Clip Used:
The #1 Reason Humans Are Suddenly being Born Genderless | Dr. Shanna Swan
By: Danny Jones
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All audio & videos edited by: Jay Prescott Videography
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Got it. You're listening to the podcast Coffee with Mike
and Juliet Libertarians Talk Psychology. This is current commentary from
an NBA businessman and a PhD psychologist.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Too.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I want to talk today about a very sensitive subject,
and that's the LGBTQ community. I can kind of understand
the sensitivity people have. Well, I want to get into
this later, but what I want to talk about is
the political exploitation of this community and how that has
(00:39):
led to the lack of help for them because the
progressive left has victimized them in a way that causes
them to overcompensate for the problems they have. So that's
a very complicated way of starting. I think I'll start
with this clip from Danny Jones. The title is the
(01:00):
number one reason humans are suddenly born genderless, and he's
talking to doctor Shanna Swan about it, and she has
a great way of talking about this very sensitive subject.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I believe that these changes that are important and hormonally
driven are happening in utero, and so I think that
whatever we find as we go down the road for
gender dysphoria and is going to relate to exposures in utero.
(01:36):
That's the only hypothesis I have whether it's going to
be due to a specific chemical or a class of
chemicals or not. And let me just say that this
whole area is very difficult because it's difficult for trans people.
And I totally understand that because it medicalizes their identity.
(01:58):
It says, why are you like this? And we don't
ask that generally, you know, you know, And and it's
similar concerns for people who have other atypical development, for example,
asd people, and so you know what causes that? Well,
I'm not sure that that question is yet we've learned
(02:20):
how to phrase that question in a way that does
not make people feel that the way they are is
the way they should not be, right, And I don't
want to give that oppression.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Well right, but it seems like it does. At the
same time, it's very important to study, especially when it
relates to some of these chemicals that are in our
everyday world, you know. And when you talk about specifically
the development of the sexual organs being stunted in utero
and these babies being born with ambiguous genitalia not necessarily
one hundred percent developed with testosterone or not one hundred
(02:52):
percent developed testicles or dropped testicles. You could imagine how
that would translate to somebody being or the way people
describe I feel like people say they're a male in
a woman's body or a woman in a male's body.
That I can see a connection there. But the thing
is you can't study it because you can't ask rats
how they feel. You can't ask a rat, you know,
(03:14):
what do you feel like? Do you feel masculine or feminine? Right,
So it's I'm definitely curious about that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I think we're all curious about that. And I think maybe,
you know, animal toxicologists will find some clever way to
figure out what an animal's preferences. You know, they can
certainly already find out who that rat wants to have
(03:40):
sex with, and they can produce rats and as I
told you, that want to have males want to have
sex with other males. Really, yes, yes, that can be
produced with the past decide we talked about before atrazine.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Right, this was a study that was done on fish
and frogs as well, right, right, frogs particularly, yeah, frogs right, Well, yes,
they made homosexual frogs.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Right, right, So that that is possible. But what that
has to do with gender dysphoria is a really open
question and one that I think is very delicate. We
have to be careful about even asking without offending people.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay, that's a good place to stop. So Seana Swan
is researching. She wrote a book called Countdown. I think
it's the name of the book. It's Countdown. And she's
looked at the drop in testosterone over fifty years, and
the drop in testosterone is just continually happening.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And it's like fifty percent.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Compared. Yeah. So she's talking there very delicately about failure
and in utero for the male fetus to be properly
exposed to testosterone from the mother. I mean, this is
such a sensitive subject because when I was in graduate school,
homosexuality was a disorder and the Christians felt it was
(05:03):
a horrible sin, you'd go to hell, you know, it
was demonies. You know, we've made it very very hard
for people with homosexuality. I say, with homosexuality who were
born homosexual. We've made it very difficult to talk about
that there might be a cause, because the minute you
talk about there's a cause, then you're talking about you're abnormal.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So and she said it, well, I mean, yeah, she said,
medicalizes them. You know, the way they were born is
not the way they were supposed to be born, and
they naturally feel guilty about that.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I mean, well, no, not guilty, shame. It's not guilt,
it's I mean, I guess it's guilty if they feel
that what they're doing is sinful, if they've been raised
in a Christian home. I want to talk about the
difference between guilt and shame. Okay, if you take an
evolutionary approach to nature and biology, then it's pretty clear
(06:00):
that human beings are sexual creatures and we've evolved sexually.
Now what does it mean to have evolved sexually? It
means there's a male and a female that contributes to
the offspring, and the offspring is stronger genetically because of
the diversity that the male brings to the female. The
other option is asexual reproduction, which is just kind of
(06:23):
like a mother having babies that are very similar to her,
are identical to her genetically, so that's asexual. They're you know, plants,
I guess there's some an I'm sure there are animals
that reproduce asexually. So you have asexual reproduction in nature,
where you just have a mother cloning yourself, but that
(06:44):
leaves the offspring very vulnerable to biotic predators microbes, because
the microbe would attack the mother and the daughters just
the same way. If the parasite can kill the mother,
it'll kill all the daughters. So there's an evolutionary advantage
having a male.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And the way I've heard you say before is that
that represents a lack of diversity. That if you have
enough diversity, well.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
That's the benefit of diversity.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
The bubonic play killed tons of people, but it didn't
kill everybody. It's obvious that sexual reproduction is an advantage
because it tends to evolve. So the advantage of sharing
space on the genome is basically better survival, you know.
And that's the way evolution works. Evolution works is a
(07:33):
whoever has the most surviving offspring wins the game. Darwin
was the first one, maybe not the first one, but
Darwin was one of the first ones to notice the
sexual differences between males and females, which you can't really
talk about that now. Used to talk about masculinity and femininity,
but the masculine characteristics psychologically come from male male competition
(07:56):
and the feminine characteristics come from female choice choose. Males
and females are restricted from zero to a few offspring,
and males are zero to hundreds of offspring, So that
creates a situation where males can compete for additional offspring
and females compete for quality in their male mating partner.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm sorry, but I've got an interject. I've probably said
this before in one of our podcasts, but the thing
about my being in the weight room with a bunch
of buddies who are lifting weights, and we were talking
about we're lifting weights, but we were talking about we
think we're competing in order to attract females. And one
of the guys in the room said, if we were
really trying to attract females, what we'd be doing is
(08:42):
learning to play the guitar, because that's with the females
zero in on is whoever's playing the guitar. And then
we all agreed with him, and then we proceeded to
lift weights, compete against each other, compete against each other
instead of doing the thing that's going to attract the females.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, I've thought a lot about this. Playing the guitar,
Playing the guitar you have to become popular, but females
are going to be attracted to the popular males, and
evolution predicts that a popular male would have lots of offspring.
So of course then the female is attracted to the
popular male because he has lots of offspring, because a
(09:20):
lot of females are attracted to him. So it's kind
of like we were talking about the Beatles, popularity was
a phenomena and how fast the female choice shot the
Beatles into mass hysteria. Popularity was female choice. The more
females chose the Beatles, the more females chose the Beatles.
(09:43):
It's a feedback loop and female choice that creates that.
So I mean it can be explained through evolutionary psychology. Okay,
we're in a situation in this country now and in
our culture, not in our country as much as our
culture where you can't really talk about there being anything
wrong with being homosexual or transgender. Of course, it's okay.
(10:07):
I mean this is hard for me to talk about.
It's okay because it's how you're born and that makes
it okay. That's like if someone's born missing a limb,
it's not their fault. They're missing a limb. But what
we've got is a culture that says you can't be
wrong in your sexuality, it's right to be homosexual because
(10:27):
you've born homosexual. That makes two things impossible. One is
this shame pride dilemma, and the other is for scientific
research to progress to find out if this is a disorder,
can it be avoided. And that's what Seauna Swan is
talking about. She's talking about testosterone disruptors and in utero,
(10:51):
especially particularly the male has to be exposed and I
think the female must be exposed to testosterone too to
a degree for her sexuality, because women have some testosterone
and women with higher testosterone are usually a little bit
more interested in sexuality than women with less testosteron. But
(11:11):
it's really true for the male and doctor SHAWNA. Swan's
research is showing pretty clearly that these disruptors have a
horrible effect, have a limiting effect on the sexual development
of some children. She's found that the distance between the
genitals and the anus is a predictor of sexuality. I
(11:36):
think the larger the distance, it's one measurement in a
male and it's another measurement a female.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
So when a child is born or when a child
gets old enough that you can measure them. Yeah, they
can measure that distance and.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Apparently so, yeah, find out. She also talks about in
some of her interviews, and she did on Danny Jones
this particular I interview, how the testosterone can affect the
brain and maybe the genitals. I think she was talking
about that in the clib the brain might be affected
and the genitals are you know, I just hesitate to
(12:12):
use the word normal, but I'm going to use the
word normal. Normal development is normal development. So in normal development,
the genitals are a certain configuration. So in some people
there may be an impact on the brain development but
not the genitals. And in other people there may be
an impact on the genitals and not the brain. So
(12:35):
you get all kinds of different things. So there are
two things that are a problem. One is that the
political sizing of the whole phenomena is making it hard
to talk about it comfortably. And we see this with
shame and pride. Is it June, that's Pride month, you know,
Pride Month. They're parades where drag queens are exposing themselves
(12:59):
and things like that, and they go do story hour
at libraries for children. This is over compensation. The issue
with I'm Proud to be gay is really a compensation
for the shame they feel. Whether we liked it or not.
There are a lot of people that still feel shame
because of their sexuality. It's so delicate a situation and
(13:23):
it's so hard to maneuver around. The only answer you
have is if you're born that way and it can't
be changed. And I think there's plenty of evidence that
once you're born homosexual, it's not really easy to change
it or it's impossible to change it. And that makes
sense because that's early early development. It's like a learning disability.
(13:46):
You can compensate for a learning disability, but you can't
get over it after it's.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Put back to your comparison to say, someone who's born
without an arm. People can accept pretty early in their
development that hey, look, you know, I'll just it's abnormal,
but I'm dealing with it even though I was born abnormal.
It's not the same discussion when it comes to sexuality
because when people say you are abnormal, everyone goes ape
(14:13):
shit crazy, and.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Kind of understandably, because you're kind of a stamp for
life is abnormal. That's a miserable thing for a person.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
It's almost like you did something wrong. You aren't. That's
why it's not accepting Jesus or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
It's why it's shame and not guilt. Shame is a
social feeling of not being adequate, not being good enough,
not being okay. I don't have this burden in life,
but can you imagine the burden for a person who
is born homosexual or transgender, and in order to be
truly happy, they want to be with someone of the
(14:50):
same sex, and yet they have to feel like it's
a disorder or it's a shameful thing, or it's they're
somehow bad, or there's somehow wrong. What a vicious trap
that is.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So I'm still struggling with is that something the rest
of our society is imposing on them because we want
to impose standards of belief on them.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, I would answer that in two ways. The answer
is yes, because there is this notion that there's something
wrong with homosexuals. But there's also a problem in that
if there's a disorder, indocrine disruptors are causing homosexuality, or
that it happens enough randomly, then you have to impose
(15:34):
the abnormal label just because by contrasts, there's a normal
and if herotosexuality is normal, then homosexuality is abnormal. You
can't get by it otherwise logically, So it's it's really
a trap and it's really vicious, and I understand why
people object, and they should object because in this frame,
(15:57):
if homosexuality is a disability, it's caused in utero. The
person is completely innocent and a victim of a birth defect,
and yet they're trapped in a life where they're always
pointed at as abnormal. I totally get that. I mean,
there's almost no way out of that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And I see what you're saying. If society just accepted it,
it wouldn't be as big a burden.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
A well, we're trying to accept it. I don't know
if that's the key. I mean, I don't know what
the key is to that. But here's the thing about it.
You find some transgenders and some homosexuals who are completely
okay with themselves, and you find some that are just
very very sensitive. I mean, we're not where we need
(16:39):
to be as a culture in accepting it, but we
also can't talk about it as being a disorder. And
if you can't talk about something being a disorder, then
you can't struggle to fix it. Okay, so those are
some of the problems. I don't have a single answer
to this. I just wanted to point out the over
compensation of pride, having a pride monthly needing on no
(17:01):
shame month rather than a pride month. I don't find
pride to be a useful term for things that you're
born with. You know, that's like, I'm gonna have pride.
It is important for people to accept themselves the way
they are. That's kind of a given. But having pride
in your sexuality is kind of like having pride in
your hair color, a pride in your eye color. I mean,
(17:24):
you're lucky or you're unlucky with how you're born, and
it's not a matter of pride. It's kind of more
a matter of luck. You're unlucky or you're lucky.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It isn't something that you work to accomplish or anything
that's pride.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Shame is not an appropriate feeling for something you're born with.
You're born with it. You might be lucky or you
might be unlucky. No one chooses their parents.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, born with the big nose you're born with a
big nose. That's just the way it is. You know,
everyone points at you and laughs.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, so I'm going to finally talk about libertarian ideals
and how these it's my belief that the LGPTQ community
is being exploited, their misery is being exploited by the
political left. They've ganged together in that term. That's hard
for me to pronounce or get straight the LGPDQ and
(18:22):
sometimes why it's really and I hate to say this,
but I'm going to say it. I'm going to take
the risk and say it that those are disorders of
sexual development. So it's a whole group of people that
from one philosophy are suffering from disorders of sexual development.
And that's because I believe there is a path for
sexual development and that path requires hormonal exposure, and that
(18:48):
when the hormonal exposure is disrupted by environmental toxins, environmental
indocrine disruptors, then you get disorders of sexual development. And
the earlier they are, the more permanent that they are.
I don't know if they could be undone, but I
doubt it. But we will well never know that unless
we can research it with people and stop doing cosmetic
(19:11):
surgery on children that we believe.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, that was always crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah. So libertarians believe in live and let live. We
certainly should avoid all types of criticism or shame for
adults living their lives the best they know how and
given their situation, the transgender, our homosexuals, lesbian and gay
individuals have every right to link up with another consenting
(19:39):
adult and live a full life to the best of
their ability.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And when it comes to everyday interactions, I just love
to point out that, hey, don't focus on traits that
don't matter. The only thing that matters is performance. If
you're in a business setting, the only thing that matters
is performance.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, your sexual life does not matter your job.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, I can see there may be minor
situations with it, you'd have to make an allowance, But
in general, you hire for performance. You don't hire all men,
you know, you hire for the people who can perform
the job. And if you focus on performance, then everything
else works out. Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, and that makes sense because that's the libertarian viewpoint is,
you have the right to a job, but you don't
have the right to make other people accept everything about
you that you want them to accept right, which gets
us into accepting other people's sexuality. Other people's sexuality is
they're my own private business. It's not for public consumption
in my view. So the progressive left uses this group,
(20:43):
and the group is involved in promoting their sexuality, I
believe is a overcompensation for the fact that they still
feel shamed. So we've got some work to do in
our culture. That a group of people still feel shame
about their sexuality and they painted as an issue with pride,
but they are experiencing a lack of acceptance for their
(21:07):
disability is another way to frame it, and I think
that frame might be hard for some individuals in the
LGBTQ community, but I think the frame would allow us
to work on the problem and help mothers avoid situations
that are not conducive for their babies to be born completely.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's scary. It's scary because you didn't make a big
deal about it, But it's scary to think that our
society is so overexposed to bad foods and chemicals that
we're messing up of the birthing process. I mean, that's
just it's horrifying.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
There's evidence for that to be us. Okay, that's all
I have for today sounds good.
Got it. You're listening to the podcast Coffee with Mike
and Juliet Libertarians Talk Psychology. This is current commentary from
an NBA businessman and a PhD psychologist.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Too.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
I want to talk today about a very sensitive subject,
and that's the LGBTQ community. I can kind of understand
the sensitivity people have. Well, I want to get into
this later, but what I want to talk about is
the political exploitation of this community and how that has
(00:39):
led to the lack of help for them because the
progressive left has victimized them in a way that causes
them to overcompensate for the problems they have. So that's
a very complicated way of starting. I think I'll start
with this clip from Danny Jones. The title is the
(01:00):
number one reason humans are suddenly born genderless, and he's
talking to doctor Shanna Swan about it, and she has
a great way of talking about this very sensitive subject.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I believe that these changes that are important and hormonally
driven are happening in utero, and so I think that
whatever we find as we go down the road for
gender dysphoria and is going to relate to exposures in utero.
(01:36):
That's the only hypothesis I have whether it's going to
be due to a specific chemical or a class of
chemicals or not. And let me just say that this
whole area is very difficult because it's difficult for trans people.
And I totally understand that because it medicalizes their identity.
(01:58):
It says, why are you like this? And we don't
ask that generally, you know, you know, And and it's
similar concerns for people who have other atypical development, for example,
asd people, and so you know what causes that? Well,
I'm not sure that that question is yet we've learned
(02:20):
how to phrase that question in a way that does
not make people feel that the way they are is
the way they should not be, right, And I don't
want to give that oppression.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Well right, but it seems like it does. At the
same time, it's very important to study, especially when it
relates to some of these chemicals that are in our
everyday world, you know. And when you talk about specifically
the development of the sexual organs being stunted in utero
and these babies being born with ambiguous genitalia not necessarily
one hundred percent developed with testosterone or not one hundred
(02:52):
percent developed testicles or dropped testicles. You could imagine how
that would translate to somebody being or the way people
describe I feel like people say they're a male in
a woman's body or a woman in a male's body.
That I can see a connection there. But the thing
is you can't study it because you can't ask rats
how they feel. You can't ask a rat, you know,
(03:14):
what do you feel like? Do you feel masculine or feminine? Right,
So it's I'm definitely curious about that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I think we're all curious about that. And I think maybe,
you know, animal toxicologists will find some clever way to
figure out what an animal's preferences. You know, they can
certainly already find out who that rat wants to have
(03:40):
sex with, and they can produce rats and as I
told you, that want to have males want to have
sex with other males. Really, yes, yes, that can be
produced with the past decide we talked about before atrazine.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Right, this was a study that was done on fish
and frogs as well, right, right, frogs particularly, yeah, frogs right, Well, yes,
they made homosexual frogs.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Right, right, So that that is possible. But what that
has to do with gender dysphoria is a really open
question and one that I think is very delicate. We
have to be careful about even asking without offending people.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Okay, that's a good place to stop. So Seana Swan
is researching. She wrote a book called Countdown. I think
it's the name of the book. It's Countdown. And she's
looked at the drop in testosterone over fifty years, and
the drop in testosterone is just continually happening.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And it's like fifty percent.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Compared. Yeah. So she's talking there very delicately about failure
and in utero for the male fetus to be properly
exposed to testosterone from the mother. I mean, this is
such a sensitive subject because when I was in graduate school,
homosexuality was a disorder and the Christians felt it was
(05:03):
a horrible sin, you'd go to hell, you know, it
was demonies. You know, we've made it very very hard
for people with homosexuality. I say, with homosexuality who were
born homosexual. We've made it very difficult to talk about
that there might be a cause, because the minute you
talk about there's a cause, then you're talking about you're abnormal.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So and she said it, well, I mean, yeah, she said,
medicalizes them. You know, the way they were born is
not the way they were supposed to be born, and
they naturally feel guilty about that.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I mean, well, no, not guilty, shame. It's not guilt,
it's I mean, I guess it's guilty if they feel
that what they're doing is sinful, if they've been raised
in a Christian home. I want to talk about the
difference between guilt and shame. Okay, if you take an
evolutionary approach to nature and biology, then it's pretty clear
(06:00):
that human beings are sexual creatures and we've evolved sexually.
Now what does it mean to have evolved sexually? It
means there's a male and a female that contributes to
the offspring, and the offspring is stronger genetically because of
the diversity that the male brings to the female. The
other option is asexual reproduction, which is just kind of
(06:23):
like a mother having babies that are very similar to her,
are identical to her genetically, so that's asexual. They're you know, plants,
I guess there's some an I'm sure there are animals
that reproduce asexually. So you have asexual reproduction in nature,
where you just have a mother cloning yourself, but that
(06:44):
leaves the offspring very vulnerable to biotic predators microbes, because
the microbe would attack the mother and the daughters just
the same way. If the parasite can kill the mother,
it'll kill all the daughters. So there's an evolutionary advantage
having a male.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
And the way I've heard you say before is that
that represents a lack of diversity. That if you have
enough diversity, well.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
That's the benefit of diversity.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
The bubonic play killed tons of people, but it didn't
kill everybody. It's obvious that sexual reproduction is an advantage
because it tends to evolve. So the advantage of sharing
space on the genome is basically better survival, you know.
And that's the way evolution works. Evolution works is a
(07:33):
whoever has the most surviving offspring wins the game. Darwin
was the first one, maybe not the first one, but
Darwin was one of the first ones to notice the
sexual differences between males and females, which you can't really
talk about that now. Used to talk about masculinity and femininity,
but the masculine characteristics psychologically come from male male competition
(07:56):
and the feminine characteristics come from female choice choose. Males
and females are restricted from zero to a few offspring,
and males are zero to hundreds of offspring, So that
creates a situation where males can compete for additional offspring
and females compete for quality in their male mating partner.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
I'm sorry, but I've got an interject. I've probably said
this before in one of our podcasts, but the thing
about my being in the weight room with a bunch
of buddies who are lifting weights, and we were talking
about we're lifting weights, but we were talking about we
think we're competing in order to attract females. And one
of the guys in the room said, if we were
really trying to attract females, what we'd be doing is
(08:42):
learning to play the guitar, because that's with the females
zero in on is whoever's playing the guitar. And then
we all agreed with him, and then we proceeded to
lift weights, compete against each other, compete against each other
instead of doing the thing that's going to attract the females.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Well, I've thought a lot about this. Playing the guitar,
Playing the guitar you have to become popular, but females
are going to be attracted to the popular males, and
evolution predicts that a popular male would have lots of offspring.
So of course then the female is attracted to the
popular male because he has lots of offspring, because a
(09:20):
lot of females are attracted to him. So it's kind
of like we were talking about the Beatles, popularity was
a phenomena and how fast the female choice shot the
Beatles into mass hysteria. Popularity was female choice. The more
females chose the Beatles, the more females chose the Beatles.
(09:43):
It's a feedback loop and female choice that creates that.
So I mean it can be explained through evolutionary psychology. Okay,
we're in a situation in this country now and in
our culture, not in our country as much as our
culture where you can't really talk about there being anything
wrong with being homosexual or transgender. Of course, it's okay.
(10:07):
I mean this is hard for me to talk about.
It's okay because it's how you're born and that makes
it okay. That's like if someone's born missing a limb,
it's not their fault. They're missing a limb. But what
we've got is a culture that says you can't be
wrong in your sexuality, it's right to be homosexual because
(10:27):
you've born homosexual. That makes two things impossible. One is
this shame pride dilemma, and the other is for scientific
research to progress to find out if this is a disorder,
can it be avoided. And that's what Seauna Swan is
talking about. She's talking about testosterone disruptors and in utero,
(10:51):
especially particularly the male has to be exposed and I
think the female must be exposed to testosterone too to
a degree for her sexuality, because women have some testosterone
and women with higher testosterone are usually a little bit
more interested in sexuality than women with less testosteron. But
(11:11):
it's really true for the male and doctor SHAWNA. Swan's
research is showing pretty clearly that these disruptors have a
horrible effect, have a limiting effect on the sexual development
of some children. She's found that the distance between the
genitals and the anus is a predictor of sexuality. I
(11:36):
think the larger the distance, it's one measurement in a
male and it's another measurement a female.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
So when a child is born or when a child
gets old enough that you can measure them. Yeah, they
can measure that distance and.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Apparently so, yeah, find out. She also talks about in
some of her interviews, and she did on Danny Jones
this particular I interview, how the testosterone can affect the
brain and maybe the genitals. I think she was talking
about that in the clib the brain might be affected
and the genitals are you know, I just hesitate to
(12:12):
use the word normal, but I'm going to use the
word normal. Normal development is normal development. So in normal development,
the genitals are a certain configuration. So in some people
there may be an impact on the brain development but
not the genitals. And in other people there may be
an impact on the genitals and not the brain. So
(12:35):
you get all kinds of different things. So there are
two things that are a problem. One is that the
political sizing of the whole phenomena is making it hard
to talk about it comfortably. And we see this with
shame and pride. Is it June, that's Pride month, you know,
Pride Month. They're parades where drag queens are exposing themselves
(12:59):
and things like that, and they go do story hour
at libraries for children. This is over compensation. The issue
with I'm Proud to be gay is really a compensation
for the shame they feel. Whether we liked it or not.
There are a lot of people that still feel shame
because of their sexuality. It's so delicate a situation and
(13:23):
it's so hard to maneuver around. The only answer you
have is if you're born that way and it can't
be changed. And I think there's plenty of evidence that
once you're born homosexual, it's not really easy to change
it or it's impossible to change it. And that makes
sense because that's early early development. It's like a learning disability.
(13:46):
You can compensate for a learning disability, but you can't
get over it after it's.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Put back to your comparison to say, someone who's born
without an arm. People can accept pretty early in their
development that hey, look, you know, I'll just it's abnormal,
but I'm dealing with it even though I was born abnormal.
It's not the same discussion when it comes to sexuality
because when people say you are abnormal, everyone goes ape
(14:13):
shit crazy, and.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Kind of understandably, because you're kind of a stamp for
life is abnormal. That's a miserable thing for a person.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
It's almost like you did something wrong. You aren't. That's
why it's not accepting Jesus or whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
It's why it's shame and not guilt. Shame is a
social feeling of not being adequate, not being good enough,
not being okay. I don't have this burden in life,
but can you imagine the burden for a person who
is born homosexual or transgender, and in order to be
truly happy, they want to be with someone of the
(14:50):
same sex, and yet they have to feel like it's
a disorder or it's a shameful thing, or it's they're
somehow bad, or there's somehow wrong. What a vicious trap
that is.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So I'm still struggling with is that something the rest
of our society is imposing on them because we want
to impose standards of belief on them.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Well, I would answer that in two ways. The answer
is yes, because there is this notion that there's something
wrong with homosexuals. But there's also a problem in that
if there's a disorder, indocrine disruptors are causing homosexuality, or
that it happens enough randomly, then you have to impose
(15:34):
the abnormal label just because by contrasts, there's a normal
and if herotosexuality is normal, then homosexuality is abnormal. You
can't get by it otherwise logically, So it's it's really
a trap and it's really vicious, and I understand why
people object, and they should object because in this frame,
(15:57):
if homosexuality is a disability, it's caused in utero. The
person is completely innocent and a victim of a birth defect,
and yet they're trapped in a life where they're always
pointed at as abnormal. I totally get that. I mean,
there's almost no way out of that.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And I see what you're saying. If society just accepted it,
it wouldn't be as big a burden.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
A well, we're trying to accept it. I don't know
if that's the key. I mean, I don't know what
the key is to that. But here's the thing about it.
You find some transgenders and some homosexuals who are completely
okay with themselves, and you find some that are just
very very sensitive. I mean, we're not where we need
(16:39):
to be as a culture in accepting it, but we
also can't talk about it as being a disorder. And
if you can't talk about something being a disorder, then
you can't struggle to fix it. Okay, so those are
some of the problems. I don't have a single answer
to this. I just wanted to point out the over
compensation of pride, having a pride monthly needing on no
(17:01):
shame month rather than a pride month. I don't find
pride to be a useful term for things that you're
born with. You know, that's like, I'm gonna have pride.
It is important for people to accept themselves the way
they are. That's kind of a given. But having pride
in your sexuality is kind of like having pride in
your hair color, a pride in your eye color. I mean,
(17:24):
you're lucky or you're unlucky with how you're born, and
it's not a matter of pride. It's kind of more
a matter of luck. You're unlucky or you're lucky.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It isn't something that you work to accomplish or anything
that's pride.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Shame is not an appropriate feeling for something you're born with.
You're born with it. You might be lucky or you
might be unlucky. No one chooses their parents.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, born with the big nose you're born with a
big nose. That's just the way it is. You know,
everyone points at you and laughs.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Okay, so I'm going to finally talk about libertarian ideals
and how these it's my belief that the LGPTQ community
is being exploited, their misery is being exploited by the
political left. They've ganged together in that term. That's hard
for me to pronounce or get straight the LGPDQ and
(18:22):
sometimes why it's really and I hate to say this,
but I'm going to say it. I'm going to take
the risk and say it that those are disorders of
sexual development. So it's a whole group of people that
from one philosophy are suffering from disorders of sexual development.
And that's because I believe there is a path for
sexual development and that path requires hormonal exposure, and that
(18:48):
when the hormonal exposure is disrupted by environmental toxins, environmental
indocrine disruptors, then you get disorders of sexual development. And
the earlier they are, the more permanent that they are.
I don't know if they could be undone, but I
doubt it. But we will well never know that unless
we can research it with people and stop doing cosmetic
(19:11):
surgery on children that we believe.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, yeah, that was always crazy.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah. So libertarians believe in live and let live. We
certainly should avoid all types of criticism or shame for
adults living their lives the best they know how and
given their situation, the transgender, our homosexuals, lesbian and gay
individuals have every right to link up with another consenting
(19:39):
adult and live a full life to the best of
their ability.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And when it comes to everyday interactions, I just love
to point out that, hey, don't focus on traits that
don't matter. The only thing that matters is performance. If
you're in a business setting, the only thing that matters
is performance.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, your sexual life does not matter your job.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, I can see there may be minor
situations with it, you'd have to make an allowance, But
in general, you hire for performance. You don't hire all men,
you know, you hire for the people who can perform
the job. And if you focus on performance, then everything
else works out. Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, and that makes sense because that's the libertarian viewpoint is,
you have the right to a job, but you don't
have the right to make other people accept everything about
you that you want them to accept right, which gets
us into accepting other people's sexuality. Other people's sexuality is
they're my own private business. It's not for public consumption
in my view. So the progressive left uses this group,
(20:43):
and the group is involved in promoting their sexuality, I
believe is a overcompensation for the fact that they still
feel shamed. So we've got some work to do in
our culture. That a group of people still feel shame
about their sexuality and they painted as an issue with pride,
but they are experiencing a lack of acceptance for their
(21:07):
disability is another way to frame it, and I think
that frame might be hard for some individuals in the
LGBTQ community, but I think the frame would allow us
to work on the problem and help mothers avoid situations
that are not conducive for their babies to be born completely.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It's scary. It's scary because you didn't make a big
deal about it, But it's scary to think that our
society is so overexposed to bad foods and chemicals that
we're messing up of the birthing process. I mean, that's
just it's horrifying.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
There's evidence for that to be us. Okay, that's all
I have for today sounds good.
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