August 13, 2025 • 23 mins
Thank goodness the cancel culture world has begun to allow true free speech, with the use of the Internet! (Maybe we should be thanking Elon Musk and possibly Trump!) Governments have always attempted to control communication to the masses, and socialist systems have been the worst.
But in today’s world, maybe we should just allow these socialist style cities and states to try out their idiotic ideas. With our evolving free speech, the population should eventually see the poor results. Finally!
Clip Used:
Why Socialism ALWAYS Fails: Charlie Kirk vs. Socialist Students 🔥 | Debate Compilation
By: Turning Point USA
Follow Us:
YouTube
Twitter
Facebook
Bluesky
All audio & videos edited by: Jay Prescott Videography
But in today’s world, maybe we should just allow these socialist style cities and states to try out their idiotic ideas. With our evolving free speech, the population should eventually see the poor results. Finally!
Clip Used:
Why Socialism ALWAYS Fails: Charlie Kirk vs. Socialist Students 🔥 | Debate Compilation
By: Turning Point USA
Follow Us:
YouTube
Bluesky
All audio & videos edited by: Jay Prescott Videography
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to the podcast Coffee with Mike and Julie
Libertarians Talk Psychology. This is current commentary from an NBA
businessman and a PhD psychologist.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I want to call today's episode just let them have
their socialism. This came into my mind during the night
last night, but I saw a podcast about communist China
and Mount See tone held his management after the war.
His management of the population in China killed more Chinese
(00:40):
people than all of the wars by all of the countries.
He was a complete disaster and was able to keep
it hidden, to the point that they had a big
campaign that they'd have his poster everywhere. Everyone had to
idolize Mount See Tongue, and he was able to get
away with that for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
How did people die?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
The biggest one was Star Based Sarva. He was a
terrible manager. I mean, even compared to other socialist managers,
he was one of the worst. But it just made
me think about how the whole socialist thing is about
a promise. They do a good job of promising great things,
and when they don't deliver, they just hide that they
(01:23):
can't deliver, or they're not delivering, or in molcy Tonge's case,
he just killed people that disagreed with it was terrible,
but it made me also think about this YouTube video
from Charlie Kirk. And of course it's always a little
silly to watch a student try to debate Charlie Kirk,
but it's kind of entertaining to So.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I'll go in and place you did it with a mask.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, well, anyway you'll see.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm a young student. I was talking to you before.
I sorry you noticed that, but I'm gonna try to
keep this yes, yeah, but I'm just gonna hope you
respond in a way that's not so just conservative talking
point and more of a conversation way hopefully. Maybe sure. Okay,
(02:14):
So before there was a question about like Native American
communities and treaties and stuff like that, and you were
talking about how historically Native Americans have been kind of
like screwed over by the US government and stuff like that.
Don't you think that that history will impact how Native
Americans live today and make it more difficult to succeed
in America? Don't you think that would influence that?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Well, I suppose a question I'll ask back at you.
We've made tremendous accommodations such as sovereignty of Native American
land and entire department of the federal government dedicated just
solely to that. Do you recognize that there's been great
efforts to try to accommodate that.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I recognize those efforts, but obviously they haven't worked.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
So why haven't they worked?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Because it's either not enough or the way that we're
doing it is in we need to treat it more
as an equity thing instead of just saying, oh, it's
a culture like instead of blaming it on people's like
individual working and like, make like change it societally and
help them in a way that actually matters.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So you do know that there's universal health care a
Native American reservations, right, Yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Not very good because they don't have.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Access to because it's socialistic.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No, they have universal health care and plenty of European
countries and it works just fine. The flaws was the Native.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
American So I'm curious how did Vermont's experiment universal health
care go.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I'm kind of I'm not from Vermont, so.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I don't know these things.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I didn't hear your response say that I'm not from.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Vermont, so I don't know these things. I moved here
like two months ago.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah, I still I still can't hear what you said.
Say what you're wearing a mask? It's kind of hard.
Can you say? Again?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I moved here like two months ago. I'm not from Vermont,
so I don't know these things.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Right. So Vermont tried single payer, they had to abolish
it as a total disaster. So look, I think the
best way that to help Native American communities is to
help all people through empowerment and education. Instead, we try
a heavy handed government approach of intervention of the Bureau
of a Native American Affairs, of universal health care. And
if you want to go see a socialist dystopia, go
to a Native American reservation. I maybe you have, maybe
(04:17):
you worked on Native American reservations before. I've been to plenty.
They're depressing, their government addicted. Unfortunately in more ways than one.
They're very, very corrupt. And this is something I want
to ask you, and would you self identify as a socialist?
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, I'm not a liberal, I'm more social Okay, So
a liberal are different words, and I think conservatives confuse
that a lot. They are completely different things. Okay, No,
we don't.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
So I'm just curious to someone who would say you're
a socialist, what would be a country you think works, Well,
that's a socialist country.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
There are no socialist countries right now?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
There are Has there ever been a socialist country truly socialist?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Now?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Okay, so let me so you believe your view, your
worldview is on something that's never existed and currently doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Is it too? Is it? Is it a bad thing
to be like pro changed?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Okay? So just just so we're clear, Yeah, the type
of change you're advocating is horrifying, but so it's never existed,
doesn't And so I would say Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea
formerly Vietnam, the Soviet Union, those those are not and
we're not socialist countries.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Those countries. The disasters affects in those countries were directly
contributed by US intervention. There was a there are multiple
crews done by the CIA.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
In the country. Let let's take hold on, guys, hold on,
let's take what Let's just I'm just curious, and so,
how on earth did Fidel Castro taking over Cuba have
anything to do with US intervention?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
There was plenty of like sanctions, like economically Cuba was
completely cut off. There was no They tried to assassinate
him plenty of times. There were many the.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Fact that they're communists. Yeah, we had what to do
with that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
We didn't have anything to do with that. But after
they after a communist regime took over.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
They had a place. Yeah. So let me ask you enough.
So so you're so. First of all, Zimbabwe was not communist.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Burkina Fosso, Thomas Sankara, say that again, Thomas Sankara, Burkina
Fosso before he was assassinated.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
He was actually about Mugabe, he wasn't a communist. How
about Joseph Stalin, he wasn't a communist. How about Maosee
Tong he wasn't a communist. Yeah, Paul Pott, plenty of terrible.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
People have called themselves plenty of different names.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Oh so you get to be the judge, got it right?
So I just want to make sure we complete the point.
You believe in something that doesn't exist, has never existed.
And even though the people that call themselves the things
that you believe, you say, they weren't really that, which
is the most important point. Socialism is always judged against
an impossible utopia, and they judge markets against a reality.
(07:06):
And here's the truth of the matter that markets, which
you enjoy comfortably in Western society, is the most proven,
affluent creating machine in human history. And I would just
challenge you to do one thing. Please stop believing in
a utopian nightmare and start looking at things around you
that are good, that are true, that are beautiful, that work,
and are consistent with the natural law. You'll be a
(07:28):
much happier person if you do that.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay, I'll say one thing about this student. She's a
perfect example a huge confirmation bias.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Tell me what you mean by that.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Confirmation bias is where you only accept the information coming
into the system that proves your point and you reject
every other piece of information on Lucy Goosey criterion.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Actually, she was pretty good about it, confirmation bias, and
she was able to spit out some facts that didn't
prove her, but still she was able to rattle off
some facts that made her sound knowledgeable. I thought she
was pretty good. Of course, he's fantastic. And then her
comment about socialist countries, I do have to comment about
(08:13):
European countries that have socialized medicine, and everyone thinks that's
evidence that socialism works. No, that's evidence that if you
take the rest of the country and burden it with
socialized medicine, you can make it seem like socialized medicine
is a good idea. But it does not give evidence
(08:33):
to socialism being a good thing. It just means you
can take a certain program within a country and make
it a socialist program and make it seem like socialism work.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Well, you can certainly take medicine and make it seem
like it's working. I mean, we have a system that
seems like it's working and it's not working at all.
It's going to start working better though. RFK Junior is
getting where you don't have to accept what's giving you
the menu. Yeah, he did something the other day. It
didn't catch what he did, but he did something about
(09:05):
the vaccines. Oh well, that's a different topic. So what's
our topic today? So what about social and just anything
about it? How it compairs in contrasts with libertarians.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, I think it's become pretty clear how it compares.
I want to say, given that socialism still is growing,
we have right now there's a candidate Premier of New
York City who is an outright socialist ma'am dommy or something.
They like this guy. He might get elected. And I'm saying, hey,
let it happen with fighting it. Let these cities or states.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Try it out.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, let them do it and not do it New
York try out. Yeah, let's do its.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Please do it in a way that we can see
the results. Don't hide the results from us, you know,
we want to see the results. We want to see
how many businesses leave New York City. The different programs
that he's wanting the institute, they always sound like a
good idea, because that's what socialists are good at, is
making promises.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
That sounds it never really sounds like a good idea.
To mean, when I hear them talk, it doesn't sound
like a good idea. Well, it sounds like a good
idea if you're an altruist and you believe that, you
know the idea of where socialism, the idea comes from.
It comes from altruism. It comes from the idea that
we want to be fair to people. We want everybody
to have what they need. We don't want to have
(10:29):
anybody in horrible poverty. So it comes from altruism. And
you see these kids. This student talking to Charlie Kirk,
she's come out of a family. She's so not bright.
She's wearing a mask in front of a microphone. Even
at the height of the pandemic, you took off your
mask if you were talking into a microphone. But she's
(10:49):
a dedicated person. She's a loyal feeling type. She comes
out of a family and being a parent, you do
have a socialist ten to your families.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Families are very socialist.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Families are very socialists, and we try to give equally
to all of our children, but we wind up giving
more to the ones that need it than the ones
that don't need it, because that's altruism. And that's when
someone needs something, you don't want them to go without.
There's a tug toward that. No matter what you do.
When you move away from strict v mod you're in trouble.
(11:24):
And that's what socialism is. Socialism negates behavior modification.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, it rewards bad behavior.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah. The whole saying in psychology is you get more
of what you reward. So if you want the lack
of achievement, go ahead and go socialism. If you want
to get rid of achievement in your society. Go socialists,
and you get rid of achievement pretty fast.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Now as recently as just a couple of years ago,
I think these socialists could have pulled it off because
we had canceled culture. With the herd attacks, the you
could the truth couldn't get out. I mean, the truth
did not get out, which is part of socialism. Well,
it's part of all governments.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
When it's failing.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, it's failing.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
When it's failing, everybody covers up their mistakes. Yes, but
you're saying part of why socialism can go as far
as it goes is because they cover up the results.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, they are in control of the message. But I
am proposing now that we have things have changed when
it comes to how information hits the popul.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Well, they really have. I think Donald Trump single handedly
opened up media Corno, not single handedly Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I would say Elon Musk single handedly did it, and
Trump rode the wave into the shore.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Well we could discuss that, but they both had a
big hand in creating a new culture of openness.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And I mean just a couple of years ago, we
had canceled culture. People could not speak the truth. They
get canceled. Their podcast was canceled. You were canceled. You're
canceled by in your small community because they were following
the ex Yeah, your psychology community was following the example
that the whole rest of the country was doing. It
(13:12):
was amazing to watch.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It was amazing. And then Elon mus Caddie, and it
stunned me. I've said this over and over. It stunned
me that I could be canceled when I was a
proponent of free speech in psychology, which invented free speech.
Free speech is the avenue for healing most psychological disorders.
(13:37):
And here my colleagues, and man, they were full of themselves.
The superiority was dripping off of them. They considered themselves
superior to me somehow, you know, ethically, morally superior.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Well, you touched on some controversial topics and boy, that's
not what the loyal liberal side of the world.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
The progressives require loyalty and heard instinct.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
When you wrote an article questioning the election results, Man,
they went crazy. You lost some good friends over that article.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I didn't know they weren't friends.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, that's true. It helped define.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
They were fair with their friends yeah, I didn't know.
We couldn't disagree.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Or at least question, at least question what's going on here?
You couldn't even do that. Yeah, it was open.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I remember too that. The thing is I was following
this statistician from Texas, and man, the statistics on the
election were stunning. Yeah, they were compelling statistics. You remember
al Bernstein said, how could you do this? Julie, I said,
why don't you go check on these statistics yourself. I
(14:54):
never heard back from him.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, well, and let me know what.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
You find when you get in and dig into the facts.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, at least it was worthy of questioning. But they
couldn't even allow that, right, you know, nothing could be used.
And then after it's all done, every people look back
on it now and say, oh, yeah, we looked into that,
and you know, no, they didn't mean. They were fighting
tooth and toenail. But I am maintaining that the Internet,
(15:20):
after Elon Musk and Donald Trump, that has changed the
free speech world. And I'm saying that one of the
results is we all to just let this happen and
depend on free speech to get the facts out to
a significant portion of the public so that they can
believe the truth.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Well, that's one way positive change can happen. But I
would hope that just the logic, the logic of socialism
would impact most people. Have you ever heard this example,
and we probably can't remember it, this example of if
you use socialism in a classroom, I wish we could
find that everybody earns a gray. You take away the
(16:01):
a's from the people that earn the a's, and you
give the extra points to the people that made d's
and f's, and pretty soon, I mean I think I
saw a video of a professor telling his students that
and then like, oh the A. Students go, I don't
want to give away my A. I don't want to
be fair and give a But he'd say, but it's fair.
(16:25):
Everybody needs a passing grade. It's really stunning to watch
the faces of the students. They get it. They get it.
When you start talking about taking away achievement from one
person and giving it without effort to another person, I mean,
you're breaking all the rules of behavior modification. You're not
(16:46):
only reinforcing one of the seven deadly sins laziness, but
you're failing to reinforce.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
It's a double whimy it's.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
A double whimmy's you're breaking the rule about reinforcing what
you don't want and not reinforcing what you do want.
You can't get a better and more upside down system
than socialism.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, it is amazing, and it is amazing how free
market capitalism they don't have a good sales tactic or something.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
It just rewards achievement. It's the best way we have
of rewarding achievement.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, they do a poor job of pointing out that
it controls greed better than any other system. They don't
make that argument very well. Yeah, greed can very much
work in a free market world. Let the greed take off,
and the greedy people will give jobs to people, the
public will have better lifestyle. And as long as government
(17:43):
doesn't intrude itself and prohibit competition, free market and greedy
business owners are going to work greed in our system.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Well, we've talked about this before. The only problem, and
I'm not sure I understand what greed really means. But
the problem is once a person becomes successful, then they
become powerful. Then when they become powerful, they tend to
cheat because they can.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well, there's plenty of cheating that's That's.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
My point is that the cheating is what we should
be focused on, not greed.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
As you've said before. It's the detection system that's important.
Cheaters who collude with government to restrict competition that needs
to be exposed.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, and I would say that's greedy and greedy to
me requires cheating.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And a greedy business owner who underpays his employees. That
needs to be openly talked about. And those employees need
to be able to go to other businesses and they
say can or money. That's right. If government isn't involved
in restricting competition, then it works. In fact, it works
even when you have government restricting competition at works. Yeah,
(18:56):
but it works better. I just want to point out
that what I've already said is I want them to
let socialists have their way in these communities and report
the results honestly so everyone can see what's happened. But
I would also say, let them have their socialism, but
give people a choice if we In fact that's true
(19:18):
even outside of the socialist communities, I want individuals to
have a free market choice on every government program that
we can make it happen, so that free market choice
stands a chance to compete against socialist policies. You know,
the one I'd like to think about is defund the police.
I'm kind of in favor of the idea of defunding
(19:40):
the police. I don't mean it in the same way
Mandami does. I want the alternative of private police that
we choose to hire instead of funding government paid police.
That's the kind of choice I would like for people
to have, and that way the marketplace is deciding how
much police effort we can have. But I think there
(20:02):
are alternatives about ways to do that. But I'm saying,
let bud Light do what they want to do and
suffer the results. Let Target do what it wants to
do and suffer the results. This latest thing about the woman,
the cute model that has the good genes Sydney Sydney something.
But it's backfiring on people because people.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Are working out for American Eagle, gene American.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
They're making more money off this because people are tired.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I mean, I had not heard the label American Eagle,
but yeah, you know, so it's great advertising for American Eagle.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
And is it Levis the competitor they hurried up and
pushed their female out Kaal yeah, that has we have
our genes. I kind of understand the complaint about she
has good genes. I kind of understand people complaining about it.
But at the same time, I understand people laughing about it,
(21:01):
and I'm saying that.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
She obviously has good genes. She's a good looking, beautiful
young woman. She's lucky. She's lucky, she's beautiful, she was
born beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I guess she's a singer. I guess.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I mean, I'm not asking. I mean, I don't know
if she's a singer, and I don't know if she's
an actress, but she's probably a singer. So she was
born with extremely good looking gene She's obviously talented. She
does have good gens.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Was so far and she is we looked it up.
She is part German. She is German and English. So
when they were talking about her being a Knox Nazi, people.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Was mocking the people. He said, people are saying that
if you think she's attractive, you're a Nazi. Yeah, it
wasn't that she's a Nazi. It said if you think
she's attractive, you're a Nazi.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, people are laughing about this and it used to be.
I mean, in fairly recent history, you couldn't get away
with laughing at stuff like this. But I'm saying the
free speech, and you know, the Trump style of ridiculing
things is working pretty good. And I'm saying it's even
working on political stuff like war in the Middle East.
(22:18):
I'm saying, it is damn hard to cover over the
atrocities that are taking place in the Middle East and
playing like this isn't happening. So I think the free
speech is working. So I guess that's all I have
to say.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
When you started talking about socialism and you wound up
talking about free speech, so I guess your point is
that socialism wouldn't really get traction if we have free speech.
That's exactly, yes, detecting its failures.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
That's exactly I get it now, Okay,
You're listening to the podcast Coffee with Mike and Julie
Libertarians Talk Psychology. This is current commentary from an NBA
businessman and a PhD psychologist.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I want to call today's episode just let them have
their socialism. This came into my mind during the night
last night, but I saw a podcast about communist China
and Mount See tone held his management after the war.
His management of the population in China killed more Chinese
(00:40):
people than all of the wars by all of the countries.
He was a complete disaster and was able to keep
it hidden, to the point that they had a big
campaign that they'd have his poster everywhere. Everyone had to
idolize Mount See Tongue, and he was able to get
away with that for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
How did people die?
Speaker 2 (01:02):
The biggest one was Star Based Sarva. He was a
terrible manager. I mean, even compared to other socialist managers,
he was one of the worst. But it just made
me think about how the whole socialist thing is about
a promise. They do a good job of promising great things,
and when they don't deliver, they just hide that they
(01:23):
can't deliver, or they're not delivering, or in molcy Tonge's case,
he just killed people that disagreed with it was terrible,
but it made me also think about this YouTube video
from Charlie Kirk. And of course it's always a little
silly to watch a student try to debate Charlie Kirk,
but it's kind of entertaining to So.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
I'll go in and place you did it with a mask.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, well, anyway you'll see.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I'm a young student. I was talking to you before.
I sorry you noticed that, but I'm gonna try to
keep this yes, yeah, but I'm just gonna hope you
respond in a way that's not so just conservative talking
point and more of a conversation way hopefully. Maybe sure. Okay,
(02:14):
So before there was a question about like Native American
communities and treaties and stuff like that, and you were
talking about how historically Native Americans have been kind of
like screwed over by the US government and stuff like that.
Don't you think that that history will impact how Native
Americans live today and make it more difficult to succeed
in America? Don't you think that would influence that?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Well, I suppose a question I'll ask back at you.
We've made tremendous accommodations such as sovereignty of Native American
land and entire department of the federal government dedicated just
solely to that. Do you recognize that there's been great
efforts to try to accommodate that.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I recognize those efforts, but obviously they haven't worked.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
So why haven't they worked?
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Because it's either not enough or the way that we're
doing it is in we need to treat it more
as an equity thing instead of just saying, oh, it's
a culture like instead of blaming it on people's like
individual working and like, make like change it societally and
help them in a way that actually matters.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
So you do know that there's universal health care a
Native American reservations, right, Yeah, but it's.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Not very good because they don't have.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Access to because it's socialistic.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No, they have universal health care and plenty of European
countries and it works just fine. The flaws was the Native.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
American So I'm curious how did Vermont's experiment universal health
care go.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
I'm kind of I'm not from Vermont, so.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I don't know these things.
Speaker 4 (03:45):
I didn't hear your response say that I'm not from.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Vermont, so I don't know these things. I moved here
like two months ago.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah, I still I still can't hear what you said.
Say what you're wearing a mask? It's kind of hard.
Can you say? Again?
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I moved here like two months ago. I'm not from Vermont,
so I don't know these things.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Right. So Vermont tried single payer, they had to abolish
it as a total disaster. So look, I think the
best way that to help Native American communities is to
help all people through empowerment and education. Instead, we try
a heavy handed government approach of intervention of the Bureau
of a Native American Affairs, of universal health care. And
if you want to go see a socialist dystopia, go
to a Native American reservation. I maybe you have, maybe
(04:17):
you worked on Native American reservations before. I've been to plenty.
They're depressing, their government addicted. Unfortunately in more ways than one.
They're very, very corrupt. And this is something I want
to ask you, and would you self identify as a socialist?
Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, I'm not a liberal, I'm more social Okay, So
a liberal are different words, and I think conservatives confuse
that a lot. They are completely different things. Okay, No,
we don't.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
So I'm just curious to someone who would say you're
a socialist, what would be a country you think works, Well,
that's a socialist country.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
There are no socialist countries right now?
Speaker 4 (04:54):
There are Has there ever been a socialist country truly socialist?
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Now?
Speaker 4 (05:00):
Okay, so let me so you believe your view, your
worldview is on something that's never existed and currently doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Is it too? Is it? Is it a bad thing
to be like pro changed?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Okay? So just just so we're clear, Yeah, the type
of change you're advocating is horrifying, but so it's never existed,
doesn't And so I would say Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea
formerly Vietnam, the Soviet Union, those those are not and
we're not socialist countries.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Those countries. The disasters affects in those countries were directly
contributed by US intervention. There was a there are multiple
crews done by the CIA.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
In the country. Let let's take hold on, guys, hold on,
let's take what Let's just I'm just curious, and so,
how on earth did Fidel Castro taking over Cuba have
anything to do with US intervention?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
There was plenty of like sanctions, like economically Cuba was
completely cut off. There was no They tried to assassinate
him plenty of times. There were many the.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Fact that they're communists. Yeah, we had what to do
with that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
We didn't have anything to do with that. But after
they after a communist regime took over.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
They had a place. Yeah. So let me ask you enough.
So so you're so. First of all, Zimbabwe was not communist.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Burkina Fosso, Thomas Sankara, say that again, Thomas Sankara, Burkina
Fosso before he was assassinated.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
He was actually about Mugabe, he wasn't a communist. How
about Joseph Stalin, he wasn't a communist. How about Maosee
Tong he wasn't a communist. Yeah, Paul Pott, plenty of terrible.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
People have called themselves plenty of different names.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Oh so you get to be the judge, got it right?
So I just want to make sure we complete the point.
You believe in something that doesn't exist, has never existed.
And even though the people that call themselves the things
that you believe, you say, they weren't really that, which
is the most important point. Socialism is always judged against
an impossible utopia, and they judge markets against a reality.
(07:06):
And here's the truth of the matter that markets, which
you enjoy comfortably in Western society, is the most proven,
affluent creating machine in human history. And I would just
challenge you to do one thing. Please stop believing in
a utopian nightmare and start looking at things around you
that are good, that are true, that are beautiful, that work,
and are consistent with the natural law. You'll be a
(07:28):
much happier person if you do that.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Okay, I'll say one thing about this student. She's a
perfect example a huge confirmation bias.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Tell me what you mean by that.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Confirmation bias is where you only accept the information coming
into the system that proves your point and you reject
every other piece of information on Lucy Goosey criterion.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Actually, she was pretty good about it, confirmation bias, and
she was able to spit out some facts that didn't
prove her, but still she was able to rattle off
some facts that made her sound knowledgeable. I thought she
was pretty good. Of course, he's fantastic. And then her
comment about socialist countries, I do have to comment about
(08:13):
European countries that have socialized medicine, and everyone thinks that's
evidence that socialism works. No, that's evidence that if you
take the rest of the country and burden it with
socialized medicine, you can make it seem like socialized medicine
is a good idea. But it does not give evidence
(08:33):
to socialism being a good thing. It just means you
can take a certain program within a country and make
it a socialist program and make it seem like socialism work.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Well, you can certainly take medicine and make it seem
like it's working. I mean, we have a system that
seems like it's working and it's not working at all.
It's going to start working better though. RFK Junior is
getting where you don't have to accept what's giving you
the menu. Yeah, he did something the other day. It
didn't catch what he did, but he did something about
(09:05):
the vaccines. Oh well, that's a different topic. So what's
our topic today? So what about social and just anything
about it? How it compairs in contrasts with libertarians.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
No, I think it's become pretty clear how it compares.
I want to say, given that socialism still is growing,
we have right now there's a candidate Premier of New
York City who is an outright socialist ma'am dommy or something.
They like this guy. He might get elected. And I'm saying, hey,
let it happen with fighting it. Let these cities or states.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Try it out.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah, let them do it and not do it New
York try out. Yeah, let's do its.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Please do it in a way that we can see
the results. Don't hide the results from us, you know,
we want to see the results. We want to see
how many businesses leave New York City. The different programs
that he's wanting the institute, they always sound like a
good idea, because that's what socialists are good at, is
making promises.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
That sounds it never really sounds like a good idea.
To mean, when I hear them talk, it doesn't sound
like a good idea. Well, it sounds like a good
idea if you're an altruist and you believe that, you
know the idea of where socialism, the idea comes from.
It comes from altruism. It comes from the idea that
we want to be fair to people. We want everybody
to have what they need. We don't want to have
(10:29):
anybody in horrible poverty. So it comes from altruism. And
you see these kids. This student talking to Charlie Kirk,
she's come out of a family. She's so not bright.
She's wearing a mask in front of a microphone. Even
at the height of the pandemic, you took off your
mask if you were talking into a microphone. But she's
(10:49):
a dedicated person. She's a loyal feeling type. She comes
out of a family and being a parent, you do
have a socialist ten to your families.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Families are very socialist.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Families are very socialists, and we try to give equally
to all of our children, but we wind up giving
more to the ones that need it than the ones
that don't need it, because that's altruism. And that's when
someone needs something, you don't want them to go without.
There's a tug toward that. No matter what you do.
When you move away from strict v mod you're in trouble.
(11:24):
And that's what socialism is. Socialism negates behavior modification.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, it rewards bad behavior.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Yeah. The whole saying in psychology is you get more
of what you reward. So if you want the lack
of achievement, go ahead and go socialism. If you want
to get rid of achievement in your society. Go socialists,
and you get rid of achievement pretty fast.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Now as recently as just a couple of years ago,
I think these socialists could have pulled it off because
we had canceled culture. With the herd attacks, the you
could the truth couldn't get out. I mean, the truth
did not get out, which is part of socialism. Well,
it's part of all governments.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
When it's failing.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Yeah, it's failing.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
When it's failing, everybody covers up their mistakes. Yes, but
you're saying part of why socialism can go as far
as it goes is because they cover up the results.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, they are in control of the message. But I
am proposing now that we have things have changed when
it comes to how information hits the popul.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Well, they really have. I think Donald Trump single handedly
opened up media Corno, not single handedly Elon Musk.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I would say Elon Musk single handedly did it, and
Trump rode the wave into the shore.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Well we could discuss that, but they both had a
big hand in creating a new culture of openness.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
And I mean just a couple of years ago, we
had canceled culture. People could not speak the truth. They
get canceled. Their podcast was canceled. You were canceled. You're
canceled by in your small community because they were following
the ex Yeah, your psychology community was following the example
that the whole rest of the country was doing. It
(13:12):
was amazing to watch.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
It was amazing. And then Elon mus Caddie, and it
stunned me. I've said this over and over. It stunned
me that I could be canceled when I was a
proponent of free speech in psychology, which invented free speech.
Free speech is the avenue for healing most psychological disorders.
(13:37):
And here my colleagues, and man, they were full of themselves.
The superiority was dripping off of them. They considered themselves
superior to me somehow, you know, ethically, morally superior.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Well, you touched on some controversial topics and boy, that's
not what the loyal liberal side of the world.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
The progressives require loyalty and heard instinct.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
When you wrote an article questioning the election results, Man,
they went crazy. You lost some good friends over that article.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I didn't know they weren't friends.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Well, that's true. It helped define.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
They were fair with their friends yeah, I didn't know.
We couldn't disagree.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Or at least question, at least question what's going on here?
You couldn't even do that. Yeah, it was open.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I remember too that. The thing is I was following
this statistician from Texas, and man, the statistics on the
election were stunning. Yeah, they were compelling statistics. You remember
al Bernstein said, how could you do this? Julie, I said,
why don't you go check on these statistics yourself. I
(14:54):
never heard back from him.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, well, and let me know what.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
You find when you get in and dig into the facts.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Well, at least it was worthy of questioning. But they
couldn't even allow that, right, you know, nothing could be used.
And then after it's all done, every people look back
on it now and say, oh, yeah, we looked into that,
and you know, no, they didn't mean. They were fighting
tooth and toenail. But I am maintaining that the Internet,
(15:20):
after Elon Musk and Donald Trump, that has changed the
free speech world. And I'm saying that one of the
results is we all to just let this happen and
depend on free speech to get the facts out to
a significant portion of the public so that they can
believe the truth.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Well, that's one way positive change can happen. But I
would hope that just the logic, the logic of socialism
would impact most people. Have you ever heard this example,
and we probably can't remember it, this example of if
you use socialism in a classroom, I wish we could
find that everybody earns a gray. You take away the
(16:01):
a's from the people that earn the a's, and you
give the extra points to the people that made d's
and f's, and pretty soon, I mean I think I
saw a video of a professor telling his students that
and then like, oh the A. Students go, I don't
want to give away my A. I don't want to
be fair and give a But he'd say, but it's fair.
(16:25):
Everybody needs a passing grade. It's really stunning to watch
the faces of the students. They get it. They get it.
When you start talking about taking away achievement from one
person and giving it without effort to another person, I mean,
you're breaking all the rules of behavior modification. You're not
(16:46):
only reinforcing one of the seven deadly sins laziness, but
you're failing to reinforce.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
It's a double whimy it's.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
A double whimmy's you're breaking the rule about reinforcing what
you don't want and not reinforcing what you do want.
You can't get a better and more upside down system
than socialism.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Well, it is amazing, and it is amazing how free
market capitalism they don't have a good sales tactic or something.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
It just rewards achievement. It's the best way we have
of rewarding achievement.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Well, they do a poor job of pointing out that
it controls greed better than any other system. They don't
make that argument very well. Yeah, greed can very much
work in a free market world. Let the greed take off,
and the greedy people will give jobs to people, the
public will have better lifestyle. And as long as government
(17:43):
doesn't intrude itself and prohibit competition, free market and greedy
business owners are going to work greed in our system.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Well, we've talked about this before. The only problem, and
I'm not sure I understand what greed really means. But
the problem is once a person becomes successful, then they
become powerful. Then when they become powerful, they tend to
cheat because they can.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Well, there's plenty of cheating that's That's.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
My point is that the cheating is what we should
be focused on, not greed.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
As you've said before. It's the detection system that's important.
Cheaters who collude with government to restrict competition that needs
to be exposed.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah, and I would say that's greedy and greedy to
me requires cheating.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
And a greedy business owner who underpays his employees. That
needs to be openly talked about. And those employees need
to be able to go to other businesses and they
say can or money. That's right. If government isn't involved
in restricting competition, then it works. In fact, it works
even when you have government restricting competition at works. Yeah,
(18:56):
but it works better. I just want to point out
that what I've already said is I want them to
let socialists have their way in these communities and report
the results honestly so everyone can see what's happened. But
I would also say, let them have their socialism, but
give people a choice if we In fact that's true
(19:18):
even outside of the socialist communities, I want individuals to
have a free market choice on every government program that
we can make it happen, so that free market choice
stands a chance to compete against socialist policies. You know,
the one I'd like to think about is defund the police.
I'm kind of in favor of the idea of defunding
(19:40):
the police. I don't mean it in the same way
Mandami does. I want the alternative of private police that
we choose to hire instead of funding government paid police.
That's the kind of choice I would like for people
to have, and that way the marketplace is deciding how
much police effort we can have. But I think there
(20:02):
are alternatives about ways to do that. But I'm saying,
let bud Light do what they want to do and
suffer the results. Let Target do what it wants to
do and suffer the results. This latest thing about the woman,
the cute model that has the good genes Sydney Sydney something.
But it's backfiring on people because people.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Are working out for American Eagle, gene American.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
They're making more money off this because people are tired.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I mean, I had not heard the label American Eagle,
but yeah, you know, so it's great advertising for American Eagle.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
And is it Levis the competitor they hurried up and
pushed their female out Kaal yeah, that has we have
our genes. I kind of understand the complaint about she
has good genes. I kind of understand people complaining about it.
But at the same time, I understand people laughing about it,
(21:01):
and I'm saying that.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
She obviously has good genes. She's a good looking, beautiful
young woman. She's lucky. She's lucky, she's beautiful, she was
born beautiful.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I guess she's a singer. I guess.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
I mean, I'm not asking. I mean, I don't know
if she's a singer, and I don't know if she's
an actress, but she's probably a singer. So she was
born with extremely good looking gene She's obviously talented. She
does have good gens.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Was so far and she is we looked it up.
She is part German. She is German and English. So
when they were talking about her being a Knox Nazi, people.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Was mocking the people. He said, people are saying that
if you think she's attractive, you're a Nazi. Yeah, it
wasn't that she's a Nazi. It said if you think
she's attractive, you're a Nazi.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Well, people are laughing about this and it used to be.
I mean, in fairly recent history, you couldn't get away
with laughing at stuff like this. But I'm saying the
free speech, and you know, the Trump style of ridiculing
things is working pretty good. And I'm saying it's even
working on political stuff like war in the Middle East.
(22:18):
I'm saying, it is damn hard to cover over the
atrocities that are taking place in the Middle East and
playing like this isn't happening. So I think the free
speech is working. So I guess that's all I have
to say.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
When you started talking about socialism and you wound up
talking about free speech, so I guess your point is
that socialism wouldn't really get traction if we have free speech.
That's exactly, yes, detecting its failures.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
That's exactly I get it now, Okay,
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