January 6, 2020 • 48 mins
Today's episode of Lost Origins is a bangerang of an episode. Why? We're glad that you asked - two reasons. First and foremost, this is the first episode of 2020 and we couldn't be more stoked on how we are kicking off the new year. Which leads us to reason number two, that being the guest for this week's episode. This week, Andrew and CK are joined by none other than Dr. Robert Schoch. A legend of his field, Dr. Schoch has been a mind that both Andrew and CK have wanted to pick for years and the two finally had the opportunity to do so at the Conference of Precession and Ancient Knowledge. The three spent time digging into the life's work of Dr. Schoch surrounding the Sphynx, Gobelki Tepe, coronal mass ejections, and so much more.
Dr. Robert Schoch of Boston University is speaking on Göbekli Tepe, the incredibly sophisticated 12,000-year-old archaeological complex in southeastern Turkey.
Professor, geologist, author, and scientist famed for re-dating the Great Sphinx, Dr. Schoch will discuss the enigma of Göbekli Tepe, which belongs to an early cycle of civilization dating back to the end of the last ice age. Dr. Schoch’s latest research put forth in his book Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future points to the astronomical cause of the demise of antediluvian civilizations, as well as the scientific and archaeological evidence that supports his conclusions.
Dr. Robert Schoch of Boston University is speaking on Göbekli Tepe, the incredibly sophisticated 12,000-year-old archaeological complex in southeastern Turkey.
Professor, geologist, author, and scientist famed for re-dating the Great Sphinx, Dr. Schoch will discuss the enigma of Göbekli Tepe, which belongs to an early cycle of civilization dating back to the end of the last ice age. Dr. Schoch’s latest research put forth in his book Forgotten Civilization: The Role of Solar Outbursts in Our Past and Future points to the astronomical cause of the demise of antediluvian civilizations, as well as the scientific and archaeological evidence that supports his conclusions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:37):
All right, it's twenty twenty.Happy New year, Happy new year people.
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I like, there's like one hundredpercent of the time, this works sixty
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(01:21):
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Wow, what a tumultuous year twentynineteen was, and so much more fun
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(01:41):
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plus dot com slash Lost origins doit up. So today's episode drew legendary
(07:14):
field straight up. Today we havedoctor Robertshock, the moment that all of
you have been waiting for. Man, I tried so hard to keep my
shit together and not fanboy, Ithink I did pretty all right. Yeah,
I will say that he for somebodywho's so used to probably dealing with
a lot of people's admiration in thisfield and being kind of one of the
ogs who really helped people start questioninga lot of the timeline mechanics, specifically
(07:38):
surrounding ancient Egypt. One of theforemost thinkers on Go, Beckley Tepe,
spent a lot of time with doctorAnthony West, you know, specifically being
you know, the not just likea lead researcher from Afar, but actually
on the ground in the field,helping with excavation, helping with identification.
But this guy could not have beenmore gracious with his time. Up.
(08:00):
Yeah, doctor Shock and his wifewere incredibly kind. They had to get
on a flight and they stayed withus with their bags, like, you
know, just having a real daleconversation. And I will say that we
learned something in every one of thesediscussions, but to learn it from the
guy who actually did the research waspretty incredible. It was such a cool
experience. I'm so excited that,Like, not only do we get to
(08:20):
rip through his most recent research andwork on go Backley Teppi, but we
also spent a significant chunk of timetalking through the book that was released prior
to that Forgotten Civilization, which reallyplaces a heavy emphasis on coronal mass ejections,
but also just Eastern Island, theMOI, all the things. It
was a really really cool like departurefrom the normal doctor Shock, you know,
(08:43):
like the ancient civilizations that he's exploring, and I'm really glad that we
were able to pick his brain onthat face to face. Yeah right,
huge. So for the last timeuntil the next Seapack oh conference, Let's
cue that Seapack music and we hardlyknew you when while it's playing, you
and I talked about different ways tointroduce some other weird shit somewhere else.
(09:05):
Lets we're moving forward here, yeah, aliety, Doctor Robert Shock. My
(09:31):
goodness, this show's been a thingfor quite some time, several years.
There are I mean We've been ableto have conversations with some amazing minds,
but yours is one that I havebeen on the hunt to make happen forever.
Holy hell, thank you for carvingtime for us today here in California
at Seapack. It means the worldto us. We appreciate the hell you
being here so well, thank you. I appreciate that. And um,
(09:52):
I'm glad to be here. Awesome, awesome. So let's una jump in.
And so in most cases, mostof our guests need a lot more
introduction than you do. I wouldsay, in the space of archaeology,
the study of history, different potentialalternative modalities of thinking. You are a
luminary. You are a professor atBoston University. You're somebody who's often seen
(10:15):
as potentially helping change minds from theinside of academia. You've dealt with a
lot of different I don't know,just insight from within academia in general.
But for those who aren't familiar withyou, what is the main focus of
your work in general? And whatare you researching most these days? Okay,
so just a little background. Iam a Boston University faculty member.
(10:39):
I'm a geologist, a lot ofpeople don't realize that because I think are
archaeology ancient civilizations, But I'm actuallya geologist. My PhD's geology and geophysics,
and my main focus. For myprimary focus, I'll put it that
way, for the last thirty yearshas really been pushing back the origins of
civilization. Not because I want topush back the origins of civilization, but
(11:03):
because the evidence exactly following the evidence. And this began with John Anthony West,
the late John Anthony West, whofirst contacted me in the late nineteen
eighties, and I went to Egyptwith him in nineteen ninety. He wanted,
as he called an open minded geologistwho could look at the Sphinx in
(11:24):
particular look at weathering erosion, becausehe had gotten the concept from Schward de
Lubitch that maybe the Sphinx had itsorigins going back much further than dynastic Egypt.
And he wanted geologists because this wasthis was and still is a geological
question. He wanted the geologists toreally look at that seriously. I went
(11:48):
with Egypt two. I went toEgypt with John Anthony West. This was
summer of nineteen ninety. I wasconvinced before I went that there was probably
all nonsense, but I was goingto get free trip to Egypt before it
turns out. As soon as Igot there and saw the Sphinx, I
knew within minutes this was not allnonsense that there was something amiss between the
(12:11):
geology, what the evidence of thegeology, and what the Egyptologists were saying.
Within minutes to huh, within minutes, yea, within minutes. Well,
right away I saw that the weatheringand erosion on the sphinx was not
compatible with the Sahara desert conditions thathave been there for five thousand years.
(12:31):
You have rainfall, precipitation, verystraightforward evidence of that, and I could
see it immediately once I got there. And so if you've got hyper Sahara
conditions for the last five thousand years, yet you've got this incredible fissures and
(12:52):
rolling what I call rolling rounded undulationon the body of the sphinx, and
even more so on the walls ofthe sphinx enclosure because the sphinx is carved
down into the bedrock the body,that there's something wrong there. The Egyptology,
which says the sphinx at the time, was saying the Sphinx was twenty
(13:13):
five hundred BC, four thousand andfive hundred years ago. Is not compatible
with the geology and what we knowof Northern Sahara, Northern Africa, Sahara
conditions in that region where the Saharais at the latest I'm sorry, at
(13:35):
the earliest maybe three thousand, youknow, last more or less, the
Sahara is at least five thousand yearsold, That's what I'm trying to say.
So I knew right away it hadto be prior to three thousand BC,
which is five hundred years earlier thanthe Sphinx was supposed to be.
I saw from the details of theweathering erosion and the amount, etc.
(14:00):
Instinctively thought it had to be millenniaearlier than that. So this was really
throwing a monkey wrench, as theysay, into the standard timeline. Yeah,
so that was number one, andI mean this is within minutes.
Yeah, yeah, literally the firsttwo minutes is the way I would say.
And the second thing is that thesphinx, the head is too small
(14:22):
for the body. And I sawthat immediately too, because all the Egyptologists,
of course would contend that yes,this is a dynastic head. It's
how can you say the sphinx isolder. No, I knew within the
first couple of minutes that that wasnot the original head on the sphinx.
And to me, it was verysimple from the point of view of geology
(14:46):
that there must have been a largerhead on the sphinx. It was hardly
weathered and eroded, just as thebody was. But the body you can
see to this day the repairs thathave been made over many millennia where they
took little blocks of limestone tried tofill in parts. The head they didn't
do anything like that until the twentiethcentury where they put cement on it.
(15:09):
But the head what apparently they did, and I'm absolutely convinced of this and
happened for you know, since nineteenninety the head had become weathered and eroded,
so they carved it down into asmaller head, because you can only
subtract when you can only reduce,and that's why the head is too small
for the body. When did theydo that, I believe, based on
(15:33):
the evidence, based on the style, that type of thing early Dynastic times.
And so yes, it's a Dynastichead, but that's a much later
head than the core body. Sothis really led me on this path of
not only looking ultimately at Egypt andthe evidence in Egypt for earlier civilization,
(15:54):
before civilization is said to have existedby the traditional ac demics, including all
my colleagues in academia at the time, But is there other evidence around the
world If you had it in Egypt, could you find it elsewhere? And
that's really been the focus for thelast three decades. And the popular opinion
(16:14):
at the time was there's nothing elsethat has been discovered. The dates back
to that same even history and TurgoBeckley Teppi though right, I mean Turgo
Beckley Teppe. But what you haveto realize is that Go Beckley Tappe does
not enter the scene until several yearsafter talking about older Sphinx in the earliest
early nineteen nineties Gobeckley Teppi. Thegenuine full scale excavations do not start until
(16:41):
nineteen ninety five. I had alreadygone to Egypt the nineteen ninety come to
this conclusion, talked about publicly atconferences Geological Society of America for instance,
was a flak from other exactly exactlyright. Yeah, So there were several
(17:02):
years there that were literally before GoadbeckleyTeppe had even they'd begun excavations. Of
course, the way archaeological excavations are. Once they were excavating it beginning in
about nineteen ninety five mid nineties,It's not a situation where all of a
sudden they announced, oh, we'vegot this new side that goes back to
(17:23):
ten thousand BC. It took along time for that data to come together,
for them to carry out the excavations, for them to date it,
for them to publish on it,to make it into both academia and ultimately
into the public. Yeah. Onething I've always wondered is before all that
data is released to the public,doctor Shock, did you and and Klaus
(17:44):
Schmidt have like, had you guysbeen communicating, did you did you guys
have any contact prior to him releasingthat? Was it on your radar or
was it? No? No,No, it actually wasn't until he was
releasing and publishing on it, thattype of thing. And I don't know
that he knew who I was.You know, it must have been must
have been vindicating to some degree tohave very much it will spend time with
Klaus Schmidt. John west Walk thesite and say, all right, my
(18:08):
work as a forensic geologist, asa geologist in general was valid and is
somewhat validated by seeing something nine.Yeah really exactly. Oh, I would
say much more than somewhat validated.Yeah, there was what I call earlier
cycle of civilization, going back tothat period. Yeah. Yeah. So
(18:30):
you've done a lot of work withGraham Hancock as well, Right, and
so he spends a lot of timefocusing on the younger dryst and the toward
media stream impacts and whatnot. Andin your most recent book, Forgotten Civilization,
you spend a significant amount of timetalking about coronal mass ejections. Okay,
and so maybe for a few fewmembers allowed the audience who are not
ultra familiar with that concept, maybejust like thirty five thousand foot view background
(18:55):
coronal mass ejections just so fast.Yeah, So, just to correct a
few things. I work based onevidence. I look at evidence. And
there's a lot of talk recently inthe last when I say recently, since
about two thousand and seven or soabout a comet hitting and that type of
(19:17):
thing. I have looked at thisevidence very exhaustively. I just don't think
it stands up to hardcore scrutiny.And let me explain that because there is
evidence, some of it is howdo I want to say this? I
was about to say, fragile,questionable, that type of thing. Other
(19:38):
evidence is not actually necessarily definitive ofa comet or some other type of impactor.
I was actually very interested in suchthings. I wrote about that,
speculate about that even before two thousandand seven, and I have nothing against
comets and impactors that type of thing. You also, I feel, have
(20:00):
to follow all the threads of evidence. And so this is a controversial topic.
But at this point come down thata fear of controversy. Here fare
controversy, that actually the evidence ispointing very different directions. And there's also
an issue of timing. Sure,so the end of the last ice Age
(20:22):
is ninety seven hundred BC, andthat's important because the commic proponents have been
proposing a comment not at the endof the last ice Age when there was
a dramatic warming, But what washappening at the end of the last ice
Age was it was slowly getting warmer. It was we were actually coming out
of the ice age, but wewere still and it was still cool enough.
(20:44):
To be considered an ice h andthen about ten thousand, nine hundred.
Some people date ten thousand, eighthundred, but let's just use ten
thousand, nine hundred, which Ithink is a better date for it based
on the evidence and based on icecores and semi course, etc. About
ten thousand, nine hundred, youhave a sudden cold snap, and so
(21:07):
this ice age was starting to geta little bit warmer. Think it's really
cold again. That lasts for abouttwelve hundred years. That twelve hundred year
period is known as the Younger Dryest, and it's a comic. People are
the comic proponents, if I couldput that way with no disrespect, that
they suggest a comic impacted somewhere overNorth America or exploded or over North America
(21:33):
at about ten thousand, nine hundredor so BC initiating the Younger Dryest.
And part of the thought is itwould put up a dust cloud that would
cause a cooling effect, etc.Etc. And they pointed to what they
call are well known as certain typesof nanodiamonds and carbonaceous speials and all kinds
(21:55):
of different evidence that we don't needto get into great detail here as evidence
that some kind of comment was impacting. Hey, there's a couple of problems
with this. You know, actualcraters, actual mediory material has not been
definitively identified. In my opinion,things like platinum elements have been suggested in
(22:22):
the record that's associated with the commet. There's actually other ways you can get
concentrations of platinum elements. There's otherways you can get concentrations of nanodiamonds,
that type of things. Recently,ice crater has been found under Greenland known
as Ohiawath, the crater that somepeople say, oh, that's the crater
(22:45):
from the commet. Hitting actually thedating on that spans two million years.
We don't know that. That's actuallypretty big margin are the same with things
like the Carolina Bays. There's ahuge margin of error in it. There's
actually a huge margin of are ina lot of the stratigraphy that people have
been arguing about that might suggest acommentary impact. Then it gets into the
(23:11):
extinctions. There's major extinctions towards theend of the last ice age. Most
of them are actually ninety seven hundredBC ares the major ones mega final extinctions
are ninety seven hundred BC, notearlier twelve hundred years earlier. So a
lot has to do with the typeof evidence of chronology, whether that evidence
(23:32):
is good or not. So tomake a very long story story short on
this, looking at all the evidenceand piecing things together, I actually think
it was solar activity, anomalous solaractivity, and most recently, and this
is still my working hypothesis, I'veno question was incredible solar activity that snapped
(23:56):
us out of the last ice age, and ninety seven hundred BC was apps
catastrophic UH commet our other bull lightimpactor as they call it, meteorite.
It's not going to all a sunwarm up the Earth simultaneously UH in the
ice core data indicates that that happenednot within several years, not within one
(24:18):
year, but a fraction of theyear as far as we can tell,
literally overnight, so flip of theswitch. So a major solar outburst.
What snow is coronal mass ejection solarproton events UM UH electrical discharges basically UH
(24:38):
plasma electrically charged particles smashing down hittingthe Earth would heat up incredibly quickly,
would cause vitrication that is, meltingstone, and then recongealiate right away,
turning into essentially natural glass. Itwould could cause sperials. It could actually
now we know, may electrical stormslike that, if we could use that
(25:03):
term just to be descriptive, couldactually cause cratering in cases, it could
flash melt glaciers and evaporate them,essentially same with water bodies, etcetera,
etcetera, et cetera. And onething that you find is all kinds of
flooding. You find evidence of incrediblefires, you find evidence of the vitrification.
(25:29):
You find evidence of earthquake activity whichcorrelates with solar activity, and that's
been discovered recently. You're also whenyou're melting, just from a pragmatic point
of viewer more intuitive for some people, if you melt huge glaciers that are
kilometers thick, that releases pressure whichthen sets off earthquake and volcanic activity.
(25:55):
So you have all these things happening. We have that in the geological record.
I wanted to get back to flooding, flash flooding and melting of glaciers
and rising of sea levels. Thisis all occurring at that time. And
one reason is, of course,I say, of course, because I'm
so familiar with So you're melting theseglaciers you're melting bodies of water is literally
(26:18):
we can think of as huge columnsof fire or plasma hitting the surface of
the Earth causing incredible destruction. Butyou're also putting all this water into the
atmosphere. It has to come backdown against precipitation. And I'm a physical
geologist. I'm a geologist. Ilook at physical evidence, but I also
do not ignore what when you haveworldwide traditions and mists of food delusions,
(26:47):
that type of thing. So itall ties together with a solar event,
a major solar event in ninety sevenPC now game to the beginning of the
Younger Dries twelve thousand, nine BC, we are now finding, and this
is within the last couple of years, that all the same types of markers
(27:10):
and phenomena that in the past geologistsand astrophysicism whatnot set must be due to
a comment. We're now finding thatthose could be due to a solar event
as well. So just within thelast couple of years, there's been papers
published where geochemists and mineralogy experts,et cetera have actually looked at fulgarites.
(27:36):
Why the fulgarite is is where lightning, So think of atmospheric lightning hits the
surface of the Earth, hits sand, or hits soils, turns into glass
exactly. And you start analyzing thoseand you get the same markers that people
have been assuming had to be associatedwith a commentary event. So again,
(27:57):
there's a lot of evidence there,and I'm not saying that the evidence isn't
there, but I'm saying that acomet is not the only interpretation for the
evidence. And I then think thereis evidence. I'm convinced that there's evidence
like beryllium isotopes, carbon isotopes,et cetera that you find in sediment cores
(28:18):
and ice cores, which you're notgoing to get with a commentary impact,
but you will get that with chronalflares. Yeah, chronal mass ejection,
solar flare, solar proton events,solar outbursts, term that's now being used
in some cases of a microNOVA wherethe whole surface of the earth surface there,
surface of the sunset peels off andthrows itself out, because in some
(28:45):
cases a solar outburst like a chronalmass ejection, may be direct in just
one section. Yeah, one trajectory. If we're in the right place in
our orbit, we get hit.I guess yeah. But if you throw
off a sheath in all directions,it doesn't matter where we are in the
(29:07):
orbit or other planets, they're goingto be hit. And we have events
from the Moon of vitrification and solaroutbursts that type of thing. So game
back to the beginning of the Youngerdry So I want to make this point
before I forget. For a lotof people, it's totally counterintuitive as to
(29:29):
how a solar outbursts could cause acooling spell because it doesn't make sense to
them. Oh, you know,the sun and fire and plasma hitting.
But what you have at twelve thousand, nine hundred years ago ten thousand,
nine hundred BC is a situation whereyou've got these huge glaciers, especially in
(29:49):
North America, they were starting tomelt. As I mentioned before, it
was starting to warm up. Soyou had these huge glacial lakes that were
bound by ice and natural ice damsand whatnot. And if all of a
sudden there's a solar anomalous solar activitythat heats things up a bit, all
(30:11):
those ice dams break, all thatcold fresh water melts, it goes into
the Atlantic. And this is welldocumented now and there's evidence that this is
exactly what happened, and it changedthe currents in the Atlantic, the golf
stream, et cetera. And allof a sudden, we are so dependent
(30:33):
the earth temperature budget on the oceancurrents that actually flipped some of those and
then caused a cold spell to kickin. So it's serve counter into it
for a lot of people until theystart to think about that, Yes,
a bit of warming melted these icedams, broke them apart, dumped all
this fresh water, which has adifferent properties than the saline water, messed
(30:59):
up the ocean currents, wasn't distributingthe heat um and set in a cooling
spell until about twelve hundred years laterwe were hit by another big one,
which at that point then snaps usout of the ice age. So when
you talk about these ice dams thatare just being destroyed, is that part
of what we're seeing, like inbased on the work like Randall Carlson,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Mona exactly. So
(31:22):
that's why I say you've got somegood data there, but it's a matter
of how you interpret it and putit into context. Sure, some people
don't understand that I'm not saying,oh, all that data is nonsense.
No, I know you're not sayingthat. But some people say, well,
how can you ignore all this evidence? R I'm not ignoring it at
(31:42):
all. I'm saying there's a differentinterpretation, and an interpretation that I think
is much more cogent and explains itexplains actually more of the evidence, because
some of it's not easily explained bya comic theory versus a solar out first
totally puts it all together. It'susually just Trevor that interprets it that way.
(32:04):
Anyway, So I know we havevery limited time with you today.
Yeah, And I was going tosay one other thing is that we have
archaeological evidence, we have petroglyph evidence, etc. That they were actually seeing
things in the sky and they wereengraving them on rocks, they were recording
them. I talked about that brieflytalking afterday, like the Rongo Rongo texts,
(32:30):
which Katie, my wife, actuallyfirst recognize that those were plasma configurations
that people like doctor Anthony Parrott atLos Almost National Laboratory, you know,
probably the foremost plasma physicist for thistype of plasma physics at cosmic level,
(32:51):
solar system level, that when youhad these events that we're talking about at
the end of the last Ice Age, people would see these things in the
sky sort of like the Northern lightsare the Southern lights, but much more
specific shapes. They sort of lookedlike dancing stick figures, that type of
thing, And they recorded this inancient times around the world. So we
(33:13):
have numerous lines of evidence from mythologyto recordings physically to the physical evidence geologically
that all to me are saying thesame story and all are compatible and come
together. Wow. Yeah, that'sso much. I love hearing this from
you from the source, and justquick shout out to Katie. I appreciate
(33:37):
studio sitting out to the side.I know that the two of you met
at this conference many years ago,and for what it's worth, I really
appreciate the fact that two brilliant mindswere able to get together and that you've
been able to influence each other andeach other's work for so long. I
was struck by during your presentation yesterday, especially after the Katie may not exist
(34:00):
comment that Marshall had on there before. You're leak you definitely exists, but
the fact that you know, youtwo have been spending so much time at
go Beckley Teppe over the over thecourse of the last decade or two.
And you know, not only werewe did we get to see some amazing
photography of Katie's and some of thestuff that the two of you have been
researching working on. But I'm wondering, you know, as a as a
(34:22):
couple, or even just you doctorShock, because I'm sure you guys probably
think very very similarly, what isit about? You know, and you
discussed a number of different things thatwere very compelling about seeing, um,
the advancement of a potential civilization thateither was associated with Go Beckley Teppe as
a site or somehow used it.You've talked about, um, the incredible
arts that were the relief carvings thatwere produced there, especially on you know,
(34:45):
famous particular stones like the Vulture Stoneand Enclosure d And also then you
you pausit the idea that Erfa maybe as a city in Turkey may be
actually built upon the ancient ruins ofanother potential urban type of site. But
in all of the time that youguys have spent there, what to you
has been kind of the most eitherI hate to use the word magic,
(35:07):
but you know, you know whatI mean, magical thing that you've felt
there or seeing all these different changesthere. What has been the most inspirational
aspect of your work at Go BeckleyTEPI, aside from being able to do
it with the person you love andrespect, What has been the most enjoyable
or inspiring aspect of your work there? Boy, that's a hard question.
The thing that actually comes to mindis that we had a wonderful we were
(35:31):
on one of our trips. Wewere allowed to go there and be there
at sunrise, and that was justmagical. I mean, that was just
really special. It was really justmagical. It was Katie and myself and
some people who were traveling with us, and we got special permission to go
and be on the site and experienceit at sunrise, which I think was
(35:55):
very magical impersonal for us. Butit also ties in with what I talked
about yesterday during my presentation that thatwould have been what they were doing too,
looking at where the sun was amongthe stars on sunrise, looking on
the vernal equinox out toward Ryan andtourists and the pleiades and rise, and
(36:21):
we very much experience that. Also, you've got the belt the belt stars
of Oriyan on one of the pillars, but those belt stars are not just
belt stars of Orion, I thinkrepresent But as I said yesterday with my
colleague Man who Safe today, DoctorMan who Safe Today, we now are
convinced that I'm absolutely convinced that theywere literate. They were writing the translations,
(36:45):
and you went into going into translations. So for instance, on the
belt, I think it actually saysGod of God out of God's and they're
they're looking out on the horizon onthe vernal equinox is what they may have
seen as a God of God actuallyliterally rising in the so have you.
When I was looking around during yourpresentation yesterday, there were so many minds
(37:08):
that were blown by some of thattranslation work as well. And I don't
know what the going rate at theMarriott is for scooping up brains out of
the carpet, but it's got tobe steep. Yeah. So I have
literally all the questions for you.I've had like five years doing the show
to write them all down. Wedon't have time for them today, so
I'm going to just pick the oneand cloth let's let's do pillar forty three
(37:28):
enclosure d Okay. Along the topof that, we have the handbags that
are everywhere. Yeah, I justI have to know what what what?
What do you? What are thehell? I don't think they're handbags.
And I think what people are doingis they're they're actually doing very loose interpretations
and they see things that look somewhatsimilar. Um do I know ultimately what
(37:50):
they are? Not necessarily, Butwhat I speculated and I talked about this
yesterday, is that what we're lookingat is actually solar phenomena, and what
we may be seeing there is essentiallyyou could call it, we could call
it magnetic arching, electrical magnetic archingthat you see on the surface of the
sun. They're just recording with them, and they're recording what they're seeing,
(38:14):
especially if they were recording things thatwere very important to them, very impressive
to them, and you know,in times of calamity are things that we're
having a very real effect on them. And when I start looking at those
and look at solar arching as wesee it, I actually see it.
And Katie and I've been looking atthis together very close, you know,
(38:37):
depiction of it. If you lookat what look like handbags. They're not
just squares with a handle on topthat actually that little it's more arc on
it, and there's little animals sortof in front of it. And when
you look a sound the images ofthe sun and what solar arching looks like,
it often has that arching look,but then it has a sort of
(38:59):
blob called in front of it,which I think they're representing us a little
sort of I want to say,nondescript, but with no one even argue,
can no one even agrees as toexactly what animals they are. But
they look like little animals serve runningdown to me, that's indicating the movement
of the arc and the connections.So it's a much more coach and argument
(39:22):
than oh n old idea from Turkey. So I know our listeners at home
are wondering, Okay, when you'reexplaining that, are you talking about just
pillar forty three specifically? Are youtalking about you know, the handbags that
we see in Sumerian? No,No, I'm talking about this specifically.
Yeah, yeah, ok. Yeah. And also you know, I'm not
(39:43):
going to speculate about the Sumerian hands. They might be something totally different.
I mean, you know, there'sno need to say, oh, they're
necessarily the same thing, or couldthey be something that was ultimately derived from
this concept. You know, manysymbols have very may symbols and sort of
um, I know this from Egypt, you know, uh, what should
(40:07):
we say tools of authority and thepillars that the ones that they would hold
that type of thing, they goback to much earlier periods and in fact,
you know, even the people thatwe're using them may have forgotten their
very largious original purposes or where whatwas derived from. But I'm not going
(40:29):
to specular, right, Yeah,Like I said, it may be a
simple situation that things look superficially alikeand they've been equated and they've been inappropriately
equated, so that that takes morewell, Doctor Shore research on my part,
So thank you so much for it. We know you have so many
(40:50):
things going on, and we appreciateyou're about to just jump on a flight,
and we appreciate so much on bothyou and Katie coming in and spending
time with Lost Origins today. Thankyou. Our hope is that as you
continue to work on some of youramazing research and some of the other projects
that you're spending your time on,that we can come back and potentially have
a longer discussion in the future toreally look forward to that. But thank
you so much for like I said, I am all the questions so well,
(41:15):
we could go on for days.I'm sure I'm okay with it.
I'm okay. I know our audiencewould be cool with it too. So
thank you so much for carbon timefor us today. Doctor Shock means the
world. You're very welcome, soman, Robert Shock people. Yeah,
bucket don't ever say we didn't doanything for you. Check mark right there,
just off the bucket list. Shockingepisode filled with shocking revelations that was
(41:37):
really mature. But I will saythe coolest part of that actually happened after
the interview. We were standing aroundjust discussing with them some of the stuff
they're doing next. And Robert turnsto his wife and you know, she's
(41:59):
a pretty serious researcher in her ownright, you know, does a lot
of the work with him, helpedwrite the book like super Hitter. Um
turned to each other and they basicallyboth remarked that they do a lot of
interviews and that you specifically were becausethere's no way I didn't hit all the
notes that you were hitting there.He was like, you were, you
(42:22):
know, among the most prepared peopleto talk about Like it's super clear that
you live this life, that youare deep in this subject area. And
it was so cool to see himacknowledge, you know, how much time
you've spent really digging deep in thisstuff. And I just thought that had
or at least having not discussed itwith you afterwards, I assume that probably
(42:42):
hit you like a ton of bricks, just being like, my man,
he knows that I know this stuffnow. It was really cool. It
was really humbling for sure. I'vespent so much of my life reading it.
I mean, because I look athim as like one of the four
horsemen, right like when all ofthis alternative like concepts really came to the
front, you had John Anthony West, Graham Hancock, Robert Bouval and doctor
(43:06):
Shock basically spearing the charge as asquad. I mean, if you read
some of the older books, Ibelieve it's, yeah, Robert Bouvall's book
Revisiting the Great Pyramid, or Ican't remember the exact title of it.
I'll correct that and throw it intothe media page of this episode. But
(43:27):
if you flip through that you leavethrough it, you're going to see so
many photos of the four of themjust out there, boots on the ground.
Before It's like before Fingerprints of theGods had ever even been released.
It was like just the years ofresearch that went into it beforehand. But
yeah, he's been a staple inyou know, the books. I'm reading,
the documentaries, I'm consuming the allthe all the content I can get
my hands on Doctor Shock for sure, one of the North Stars huge and
(43:52):
just to you know, get intosome of the stuff that he discussed there
as well. I think just youknow, looking into Pillar forty three enclosure
dre you thinking about um, justdifferent kind of monoculture mythos, whether it's
Samarians or mary tribesmen of New Zealand, Olmes, whatever, you know.
Just the fact that we're able tosee these kind of celestial images, celestial
(44:12):
mechanics images and relief carvings that specificallyshow some knowledge of celestial mechanics at the
time, really cool stuff. Yeah, And I love that he's not just
like staying focused on that specific nicheof ancient history when he when he really
starts getting into like the solar flares, solar flares and you know, the
repinue people of Eastern Island, Like, it's just it's it's all pervasive,
(44:36):
it's global, it's everywhere, andman to be able to just have a
conversation with him face to face sucha cool experience. I cannot wait to
get him back on the show andjust continue to pick his brain. And
so I really appreciate him spending timewith us straight up. So next week
we are going to be returning tothe original format of the show. Remember
(44:58):
that, Yeah, there's going tobe you know, for some of our
newer audience members, this could bethey're like, why is this interview an
hour and a half? What ismy gosh? I just think I have
a day. Yeah we do.Yeah, just chriss pause, listen to
it later. Yeah, you figureit out, right, consume it over
a couple of days. Maybe you'redoing it like after you spend a half
hour on the Great Courses plus dotcom consuming a lecture or whatever, then
(45:22):
you d right, cross poll nationis healthy. So but next week,
when we return to the original format, we are going to be having a
conversation with Darryl Simms. So DarrylSimms is a rat rat individual, and
I'm going to try to describe himin a few words. Uh, the
Texas Ranger of Alien and Extraterrestrial Investigation. Yeah, so he had a show
(45:47):
on I want to say it wasDiscovery or History called Alien Hunter, and
basically because of an abduction event thathappened to him very early in his life,
he has been like just driven togo after extraterrestrials and really sort what's
happening. And man, he hasseen it all. And so this guy,
(46:12):
he runs so many different organizations,He's done so many different just like
interviews and all this accumulation of data, working with people all over the globe
to really get a sense of theextraterrestrial phenomenon that people are experiencing on the
daily throughout the globe, whether we'retalking lights in the sky, abduction events,
you know, everything in between.And so we had the opportunity to
(46:34):
you know, pick his brain forabout an hour. And next week,
you guys are going to get itto go full rip on that bad boy
boom yep, exciting back in action. Yeah, it's gonna be good stuff.
So make sure that you guys smashthe subscribe button. Do the five
star written review thing, hit usup on social media, go to the
website, scoop up some merged Patreondot com, Forward's last lost origins.
All the things, all the prerequisitesfor our new listeners that you know,
(46:58):
these are the things that we need, guys. That's fine, and tune
in next week for that conversation withDarryl SAMs huge. So until then,
I'm Andrew, I'm sk and wechallenge you to question everything.
All right, it's twenty twenty.Happy New year, Happy new year people.
We live in the future man,the year of perfect vision twenty twenty.
I can remember, like over adecade ago, being in a like
leadership summit retreat working on just likeprojections, forecasting, leadership training all the
film I'm in corporate over years,so you know, you know, pointing
(00:59):
a chart and ship and power point. Yeah, and it was like a
pie chart too, but it wasjust a chart of all the pies.
I like, there's like one hundredpercent of the time, this works sixty
percent of the time, or theinverse of that. But also I like
pie and pie. But basically theentire like like purpose of that presentation was
to like run a projection for theyear twenty twenty. It's like here we
(01:21):
are, weird. It's a realtime, real place in as far as
anything exists. Yeah, we arehere now in twenty twenty. Yeah.
Wow, what a tumultuous year twentynineteen was, and so much more fun
lurking around the corner in twenty twenty. Right, and next year, for
you know, anybody out there who'sour age or above, next year marks
(01:41):
the year in which, when youlook at a driver's license for somebody to
legally consume alcohol in the United Statesof America, that date of birth is
going to be the year two thousand, and it's going to change the cigarette
age now too. I saw that. Yeah, yeah, good, good
on you, America. Way todo things. But yeah, you're old
first of all. Anybody for whomthe year two thousand has significant meaning like
(02:02):
that, or who potentially even goty two kid at the time, like
you're also old, know that?Yeah not really man twenty twenty and we
are here starting this year off strong. Yeah, so we got to break
you guys off on something amazing realquick. So we are very very excited
(02:23):
to announce our partnership with the GreatCourses Plus. Great Courses Plus. And
if you guys are not familiar withthis platform, I want you guys to
open up a browser tab right nowand check it out because it is amazing
how much content material, just topics, lessons, lectures, all the things
that they have made accessible to peoplelike you and me. And let's be
(02:46):
real, you don't listen to theshow because you don't enjoy knowing things.
Right, every single person who's hearingany of these words at any point.
Whether you're a longtime listener or somebodywho just tuned in, chances are there's
a one one hundred percent chance thatit's because you're somebody who wants to know
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(03:06):
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(03:51):
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money, right, Like they havecourses that I know one hundred percent.
The listeners of this show are goingto connect with stuff about secret societies,
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(04:14):
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That course is the Ancient Civilizations ofNorth America. Right so there are
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know, thinking about the fact thatthere are five thousand year old pyramids in
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located just outside modern day Saint Louishad a population of forty thousand years
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(04:59):
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(05:21):
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M I t yes, not onlycould I not get into MT, but
I definitely don't want to be payingthe like seventy eighty thousand dollars a year
to try to get access to sitin a lecture hall and on his time,
are on the school's time, Iwatch this course. But the fact
(05:41):
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Ten bucks per month, three months, thirty bucks. Can't beat it.
Crazy deal, right, Its unlimitedaccess, which is amazing because if you
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(06:03):
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You know, we're not talking aboutthings that are stupid here. This
is something that four real we aregoing to continue using and frankly like we'd
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(06:24):
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open your browser, go to theGreat Courses plus dot com, forward
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and you will be able to scoopthat deal. Get your learn on,
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think, let us know what youare diving into. I feel like there's
going to be some good opportunities forfuture conversations episodes of the show based on
the content that we're digging out ofthat platform, no doubt the Great Courses
plus dot com slash Lost origins doit up. So today's episode drew legendary
(07:14):
field straight up. Today we havedoctor Robertshock, the moment that all of
you have been waiting for. Man, I tried so hard to keep my
shit together and not fanboy, Ithink I did pretty all right. Yeah,
I will say that he for somebodywho's so used to probably dealing with
a lot of people's admiration in thisfield and being kind of one of the
ogs who really helped people start questioninga lot of the timeline mechanics, specifically
(07:38):
surrounding ancient Egypt. One of theforemost thinkers on Go, Beckley Tepe,
spent a lot of time with doctorAnthony West, you know, specifically being
you know, the not just likea lead researcher from Afar, but actually
on the ground in the field,helping with excavation, helping with identification.
But this guy could not have beenmore gracious with his time. Up.
(08:00):
Yeah, doctor Shock and his wifewere incredibly kind. They had to get
on a flight and they stayed withus with their bags, like, you
know, just having a real daleconversation. And I will say that we
learned something in every one of thesediscussions, but to learn it from the
guy who actually did the research waspretty incredible. It was such a cool
experience. I'm so excited that,Like, not only do we get to
(08:20):
rip through his most recent research andwork on go Backley Teppi, but we
also spent a significant chunk of timetalking through the book that was released prior
to that Forgotten Civilization, which reallyplaces a heavy emphasis on coronal mass ejections,
but also just Eastern Island, theMOI, all the things. It
was a really really cool like departurefrom the normal doctor Shock, you know,
(08:43):
like the ancient civilizations that he's exploring, and I'm really glad that we
were able to pick his brain onthat face to face. Yeah right,
huge. So for the last timeuntil the next Seapack oh conference, Let's
cue that Seapack music and we hardlyknew you when while it's playing, you
and I talked about different ways tointroduce some other weird shit somewhere else.
(09:05):
Lets we're moving forward here, yeah, aliety, Doctor Robert Shock. My
(09:31):
goodness, this show's been a thingfor quite some time, several years.
There are I mean We've been ableto have conversations with some amazing minds,
but yours is one that I havebeen on the hunt to make happen forever.
Holy hell, thank you for carvingtime for us today here in California
at Seapack. It means the worldto us. We appreciate the hell you
being here so well, thank you. I appreciate that. And um,
(09:52):
I'm glad to be here. Awesome, awesome. So let's una jump in.
And so in most cases, mostof our guests need a lot more
introduction than you do. I wouldsay, in the space of archaeology,
the study of history, different potentialalternative modalities of thinking. You are a
luminary. You are a professor atBoston University. You're somebody who's often seen
(10:15):
as potentially helping change minds from theinside of academia. You've dealt with a
lot of different I don't know,just insight from within academia in general.
But for those who aren't familiar withyou, what is the main focus of
your work in general? And whatare you researching most these days? Okay,
so just a little background. Iam a Boston University faculty member.
(10:39):
I'm a geologist, a lot ofpeople don't realize that because I think are
archaeology ancient civilizations, But I'm actuallya geologist. My PhD's geology and geophysics,
and my main focus. For myprimary focus, I'll put it that
way, for the last thirty yearshas really been pushing back the origins of
civilization. Not because I want topush back the origins of civilization, but
(11:03):
because the evidence exactly following the evidence. And this began with John Anthony West,
the late John Anthony West, whofirst contacted me in the late nineteen
eighties, and I went to Egyptwith him in nineteen ninety. He wanted,
as he called an open minded geologistwho could look at the Sphinx in
(11:24):
particular look at weathering erosion, becausehe had gotten the concept from Schward de
Lubitch that maybe the Sphinx had itsorigins going back much further than dynastic Egypt.
And he wanted geologists because this wasthis was and still is a geological
question. He wanted the geologists toreally look at that seriously. I went
(11:48):
with Egypt two. I went toEgypt with John Anthony West. This was
summer of nineteen ninety. I wasconvinced before I went that there was probably
all nonsense, but I was goingto get free trip to Egypt before it
turns out. As soon as Igot there and saw the Sphinx, I
knew within minutes this was not allnonsense that there was something amiss between the
(12:11):
geology, what the evidence of thegeology, and what the Egyptologists were saying.
Within minutes to huh, within minutes, yea, within minutes. Well,
right away I saw that the weatheringand erosion on the sphinx was not
compatible with the Sahara desert conditions thathave been there for five thousand years.
(12:31):
You have rainfall, precipitation, verystraightforward evidence of that, and I could
see it immediately once I got there. And so if you've got hyper Sahara
conditions for the last five thousand years, yet you've got this incredible fissures and
(12:52):
rolling what I call rolling rounded undulationon the body of the sphinx, and
even more so on the walls ofthe sphinx enclosure because the sphinx is carved
down into the bedrock the body,that there's something wrong there. The Egyptology,
which says the sphinx at the time, was saying the Sphinx was twenty
(13:13):
five hundred BC, four thousand andfive hundred years ago. Is not compatible
with the geology and what we knowof Northern Sahara, Northern Africa, Sahara
conditions in that region where the Saharais at the latest I'm sorry, at
(13:35):
the earliest maybe three thousand, youknow, last more or less, the
Sahara is at least five thousand yearsold, That's what I'm trying to say.
So I knew right away it hadto be prior to three thousand BC,
which is five hundred years earlier thanthe Sphinx was supposed to be.
I saw from the details of theweathering erosion and the amount, etc.
(14:00):
Instinctively thought it had to be millenniaearlier than that. So this was really
throwing a monkey wrench, as theysay, into the standard timeline. Yeah,
so that was number one, andI mean this is within minutes.
Yeah, yeah, literally the firsttwo minutes is the way I would say.
And the second thing is that thesphinx, the head is too small
(14:22):
for the body. And I sawthat immediately too, because all the Egyptologists,
of course would contend that yes,this is a dynastic head. It's
how can you say the sphinx isolder. No, I knew within the
first couple of minutes that that wasnot the original head on the sphinx.
And to me, it was verysimple from the point of view of geology
(14:46):
that there must have been a largerhead on the sphinx. It was hardly
weathered and eroded, just as thebody was. But the body you can
see to this day the repairs thathave been made over many millennia where they
took little blocks of limestone tried tofill in parts. The head they didn't
do anything like that until the twentiethcentury where they put cement on it.
(15:09):
But the head what apparently they did, and I'm absolutely convinced of this and
happened for you know, since nineteenninety the head had become weathered and eroded,
so they carved it down into asmaller head, because you can only
subtract when you can only reduce,and that's why the head is too small
for the body. When did theydo that, I believe, based on
(15:33):
the evidence, based on the style, that type of thing early Dynastic times.
And so yes, it's a Dynastichead, but that's a much later
head than the core body. Sothis really led me on this path of
not only looking ultimately at Egypt andthe evidence in Egypt for earlier civilization,
(15:54):
before civilization is said to have existedby the traditional ac demics, including all
my colleagues in academia at the time, But is there other evidence around the
world If you had it in Egypt, could you find it elsewhere? And
that's really been the focus for thelast three decades. And the popular opinion
(16:14):
at the time was there's nothing elsethat has been discovered. The dates back
to that same even history and TurgoBeckley Teppi though right, I mean Turgo
Beckley Teppe. But what you haveto realize is that Go Beckley Tappe does
not enter the scene until several yearsafter talking about older Sphinx in the earliest
early nineteen nineties Gobeckley Teppi. Thegenuine full scale excavations do not start until
(16:41):
nineteen ninety five. I had alreadygone to Egypt the nineteen ninety come to
this conclusion, talked about publicly atconferences Geological Society of America for instance,
was a flak from other exactly exactlyright. Yeah, So there were several
(17:02):
years there that were literally before GoadbeckleyTeppe had even they'd begun excavations. Of
course, the way archaeological excavations are. Once they were excavating it beginning in
about nineteen ninety five mid nineties,It's not a situation where all of a
sudden they announced, oh, we'vegot this new side that goes back to
(17:23):
ten thousand BC. It took along time for that data to come together,
for them to carry out the excavations, for them to date it,
for them to publish on it,to make it into both academia and ultimately
into the public. Yeah. Onething I've always wondered is before all that
data is released to the public,doctor Shock, did you and and Klaus
(17:44):
Schmidt have like, had you guysbeen communicating, did you did you guys
have any contact prior to him releasingthat? Was it on your radar or
was it? No? No,No, it actually wasn't until he was
releasing and publishing on it, thattype of thing. And I don't know
that he knew who I was.You know, it must have been must
have been vindicating to some degree tohave very much it will spend time with
Klaus Schmidt. John west Walk thesite and say, all right, my
(18:08):
work as a forensic geologist, asa geologist in general was valid and is
somewhat validated by seeing something nine.Yeah really exactly. Oh, I would
say much more than somewhat validated.Yeah, there was what I call earlier
cycle of civilization, going back tothat period. Yeah. Yeah. So
(18:30):
you've done a lot of work withGraham Hancock as well, Right, and
so he spends a lot of timefocusing on the younger dryst and the toward
media stream impacts and whatnot. Andin your most recent book, Forgotten Civilization,
you spend a significant amount of timetalking about coronal mass ejections. Okay,
and so maybe for a few fewmembers allowed the audience who are not
ultra familiar with that concept, maybejust like thirty five thousand foot view background
(18:55):
coronal mass ejections just so fast.Yeah, So, just to correct a
few things. I work based onevidence. I look at evidence. And
there's a lot of talk recently inthe last when I say recently, since
about two thousand and seven or soabout a comet hitting and that type of
(19:17):
thing. I have looked at thisevidence very exhaustively. I just don't think
it stands up to hardcore scrutiny.And let me explain that because there is
evidence, some of it is howdo I want to say this? I
was about to say, fragile,questionable, that type of thing. Other
(19:38):
evidence is not actually necessarily definitive ofa comet or some other type of impactor.
I was actually very interested in suchthings. I wrote about that,
speculate about that even before two thousandand seven, and I have nothing against
comets and impactors that type of thing. You also, I feel, have
(20:00):
to follow all the threads of evidence. And so this is a controversial topic.
But at this point come down thata fear of controversy. Here fare
controversy, that actually the evidence ispointing very different directions. And there's also
an issue of timing. Sure,so the end of the last ice Age
(20:22):
is ninety seven hundred BC, andthat's important because the commic proponents have been
proposing a comment not at the endof the last ice Age when there was
a dramatic warming, But what washappening at the end of the last ice
Age was it was slowly getting warmer. It was we were actually coming out
of the ice age, but wewere still and it was still cool enough.
(20:44):
To be considered an ice h andthen about ten thousand, nine hundred.
Some people date ten thousand, eighthundred, but let's just use ten
thousand, nine hundred, which Ithink is a better date for it based
on the evidence and based on icecores and semi course, etc. About
ten thousand, nine hundred, youhave a sudden cold snap, and so
(21:07):
this ice age was starting to geta little bit warmer. Think it's really
cold again. That lasts for abouttwelve hundred years. That twelve hundred year
period is known as the Younger Dryest, and it's a comic. People are
the comic proponents, if I couldput that way with no disrespect, that
they suggest a comic impacted somewhere overNorth America or exploded or over North America
(21:33):
at about ten thousand, nine hundredor so BC initiating the Younger Dryest.
And part of the thought is itwould put up a dust cloud that would
cause a cooling effect, etc.Etc. And they pointed to what they
call are well known as certain typesof nanodiamonds and carbonaceous speials and all kinds
(21:55):
of different evidence that we don't needto get into great detail here as evidence
that some kind of comment was impacting. Hey, there's a couple of problems
with this. You know, actualcraters, actual mediory material has not been
definitively identified. In my opinion,things like platinum elements have been suggested in
(22:22):
the record that's associated with the commet. There's actually other ways you can get
concentrations of platinum elements. There's otherways you can get concentrations of nanodiamonds,
that type of things. Recently,ice crater has been found under Greenland known
as Ohiawath, the crater that somepeople say, oh, that's the crater
(22:45):
from the commet. Hitting actually thedating on that spans two million years.
We don't know that. That's actuallypretty big margin are the same with things
like the Carolina Bays. There's ahuge margin of error in it. There's
actually a huge margin of are ina lot of the stratigraphy that people have
been arguing about that might suggest acommentary impact. Then it gets into the
(23:11):
extinctions. There's major extinctions towards theend of the last ice age. Most
of them are actually ninety seven hundredBC ares the major ones mega final extinctions
are ninety seven hundred BC, notearlier twelve hundred years earlier. So a
lot has to do with the typeof evidence of chronology, whether that evidence
(23:32):
is good or not. So tomake a very long story story short on
this, looking at all the evidenceand piecing things together, I actually think
it was solar activity, anomalous solaractivity, and most recently, and this
is still my working hypothesis, I'veno question was incredible solar activity that snapped
(23:56):
us out of the last ice age, and ninety seven hundred BC was apps
catastrophic UH commet our other bull lightimpactor as they call it, meteorite.
It's not going to all a sunwarm up the Earth simultaneously UH in the
ice core data indicates that that happenednot within several years, not within one
(24:18):
year, but a fraction of theyear as far as we can tell,
literally overnight, so flip of theswitch. So a major solar outburst.
What snow is coronal mass ejection solarproton events UM UH electrical discharges basically UH
(24:38):
plasma electrically charged particles smashing down hittingthe Earth would heat up incredibly quickly,
would cause vitrication that is, meltingstone, and then recongealiate right away,
turning into essentially natural glass. Itwould could cause sperials. It could actually
now we know, may electrical stormslike that, if we could use that
(25:03):
term just to be descriptive, couldactually cause cratering in cases, it could
flash melt glaciers and evaporate them,essentially same with water bodies, etcetera,
etcetera, et cetera. And onething that you find is all kinds of
flooding. You find evidence of incrediblefires, you find evidence of the vitrification.
(25:29):
You find evidence of earthquake activity whichcorrelates with solar activity, and that's
been discovered recently. You're also whenyou're melting, just from a pragmatic point
of viewer more intuitive for some people, if you melt huge glaciers that are
kilometers thick, that releases pressure whichthen sets off earthquake and volcanic activity.
(25:55):
So you have all these things happening. We have that in the geological record.
I wanted to get back to flooding, flash flooding and melting of glaciers
and rising of sea levels. Thisis all occurring at that time. And
one reason is, of course,I say, of course, because I'm
so familiar with So you're melting theseglaciers you're melting bodies of water is literally
(26:18):
we can think of as huge columnsof fire or plasma hitting the surface of
the Earth causing incredible destruction. Butyou're also putting all this water into the
atmosphere. It has to come backdown against precipitation. And I'm a physical
geologist. I'm a geologist. Ilook at physical evidence, but I also
do not ignore what when you haveworldwide traditions and mists of food delusions,
(26:47):
that type of thing. So itall ties together with a solar event,
a major solar event in ninety sevenPC now game to the beginning of the
Younger Dries twelve thousand, nine BC, we are now finding, and this
is within the last couple of years, that all the same types of markers
(27:10):
and phenomena that in the past geologistsand astrophysicism whatnot set must be due to
a comment. We're now finding thatthose could be due to a solar event
as well. So just within thelast couple of years, there's been papers
published where geochemists and mineralogy experts,et cetera have actually looked at fulgarites.
(27:36):
Why the fulgarite is is where lightning, So think of atmospheric lightning hits the
surface of the Earth, hits sand, or hits soils, turns into glass
exactly. And you start analyzing thoseand you get the same markers that people
have been assuming had to be associatedwith a commentary event. So again,
(27:57):
there's a lot of evidence there,and I'm not saying that the evidence isn't
there, but I'm saying that acomet is not the only interpretation for the
evidence. And I then think thereis evidence. I'm convinced that there's evidence
like beryllium isotopes, carbon isotopes,et cetera that you find in sediment cores
(28:18):
and ice cores, which you're notgoing to get with a commentary impact,
but you will get that with chronalflares. Yeah, chronal mass ejection,
solar flare, solar proton events,solar outbursts, term that's now being used
in some cases of a microNOVA wherethe whole surface of the earth surface there,
surface of the sunset peels off andthrows itself out, because in some
(28:45):
cases a solar outburst like a chronalmass ejection, may be direct in just
one section. Yeah, one trajectory. If we're in the right place in
our orbit, we get hit.I guess yeah. But if you throw
off a sheath in all directions,it doesn't matter where we are in the
(29:07):
orbit or other planets, they're goingto be hit. And we have events
from the Moon of vitrification and solaroutbursts that type of thing. So game
back to the beginning of the Youngerdry So I want to make this point
before I forget. For a lotof people, it's totally counterintuitive as to
(29:29):
how a solar outbursts could cause acooling spell because it doesn't make sense to
them. Oh, you know,the sun and fire and plasma hitting.
But what you have at twelve thousand, nine hundred years ago ten thousand,
nine hundred BC is a situation whereyou've got these huge glaciers, especially in
(29:49):
North America, they were starting tomelt. As I mentioned before, it
was starting to warm up. Soyou had these huge glacial lakes that were
bound by ice and natural ice damsand whatnot. And if all of a
sudden there's a solar anomalous solar activitythat heats things up a bit, all
(30:11):
those ice dams break, all thatcold fresh water melts, it goes into
the Atlantic. And this is welldocumented now and there's evidence that this is
exactly what happened, and it changedthe currents in the Atlantic, the golf
stream, et cetera. And allof a sudden, we are so dependent
(30:33):
the earth temperature budget on the oceancurrents that actually flipped some of those and
then caused a cold spell to kickin. So it's serve counter into it
for a lot of people until theystart to think about that, Yes,
a bit of warming melted these icedams, broke them apart, dumped all
this fresh water, which has adifferent properties than the saline water, messed
(30:59):
up the ocean currents, wasn't distributingthe heat um and set in a cooling
spell until about twelve hundred years laterwe were hit by another big one,
which at that point then snaps usout of the ice age. So when
you talk about these ice dams thatare just being destroyed, is that part
of what we're seeing, like inbased on the work like Randall Carlson,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly Mona exactly. So
(31:22):
that's why I say you've got somegood data there, but it's a matter
of how you interpret it and putit into context. Sure, some people
don't understand that I'm not saying,oh, all that data is nonsense.
No, I know you're not sayingthat. But some people say, well,
how can you ignore all this evidence? R I'm not ignoring it at
(31:42):
all. I'm saying there's a differentinterpretation, and an interpretation that I think
is much more cogent and explains itexplains actually more of the evidence, because
some of it's not easily explained bya comic theory versus a solar out first
totally puts it all together. It'susually just Trevor that interprets it that way.
(32:04):
Anyway, So I know we havevery limited time with you today.
Yeah, And I was going tosay one other thing is that we have
archaeological evidence, we have petroglyph evidence, etc. That they were actually seeing
things in the sky and they wereengraving them on rocks, they were recording
them. I talked about that brieflytalking afterday, like the Rongo Rongo texts,
(32:30):
which Katie, my wife, actuallyfirst recognize that those were plasma configurations
that people like doctor Anthony Parrott atLos Almost National Laboratory, you know,
probably the foremost plasma physicist for thistype of plasma physics at cosmic level,
(32:51):
solar system level, that when youhad these events that we're talking about at
the end of the last Ice Age, people would see these things in the
sky sort of like the Northern lightsare the Southern lights, but much more
specific shapes. They sort of lookedlike dancing stick figures, that type of
thing, And they recorded this inancient times around the world. So we
(33:13):
have numerous lines of evidence from mythologyto recordings physically to the physical evidence geologically
that all to me are saying thesame story and all are compatible and come
together. Wow. Yeah, that'sso much. I love hearing this from
you from the source, and justquick shout out to Katie. I appreciate
(33:37):
studio sitting out to the side.I know that the two of you met
at this conference many years ago,and for what it's worth, I really
appreciate the fact that two brilliant mindswere able to get together and that you've
been able to influence each other andeach other's work for so long. I
was struck by during your presentation yesterday, especially after the Katie may not exist
(34:00):
comment that Marshall had on there before. You're leak you definitely exists, but
the fact that you know, youtwo have been spending so much time at
go Beckley Teppe over the over thecourse of the last decade or two.
And you know, not only werewe did we get to see some amazing
photography of Katie's and some of thestuff that the two of you have been
researching working on. But I'm wondering, you know, as a as a
(34:22):
couple, or even just you doctorShock, because I'm sure you guys probably
think very very similarly, what isit about? You know, and you
discussed a number of different things thatwere very compelling about seeing, um,
the advancement of a potential civilization thateither was associated with Go Beckley Teppe as
a site or somehow used it.You've talked about, um, the incredible
arts that were the relief carvings thatwere produced there, especially on you know,
(34:45):
famous particular stones like the Vulture Stoneand Enclosure d And also then you
you pausit the idea that Erfa maybe as a city in Turkey may be
actually built upon the ancient ruins ofanother potential urban type of site. But
in all of the time that youguys have spent there, what to you
has been kind of the most eitherI hate to use the word magic,
(35:07):
but you know, you know whatI mean, magical thing that you've felt
there or seeing all these different changesthere. What has been the most inspirational
aspect of your work at Go BeckleyTEPI, aside from being able to do
it with the person you love andrespect, What has been the most enjoyable
or inspiring aspect of your work there? Boy, that's a hard question.
The thing that actually comes to mindis that we had a wonderful we were
(35:31):
on one of our trips. Wewere allowed to go there and be there
at sunrise, and that was justmagical. I mean, that was just
really special. It was really justmagical. It was Katie and myself and
some people who were traveling with us, and we got special permission to go
and be on the site and experienceit at sunrise, which I think was
(35:55):
very magical impersonal for us. Butit also ties in with what I talked
about yesterday during my presentation that thatwould have been what they were doing too,
looking at where the sun was amongthe stars on sunrise, looking on
the vernal equinox out toward Ryan andtourists and the pleiades and rise, and
(36:21):
we very much experience that. Also, you've got the belt the belt stars
of Oriyan on one of the pillars, but those belt stars are not just
belt stars of Orion, I thinkrepresent But as I said yesterday with my
colleague Man who Safe today, DoctorMan who Safe Today, we now are
convinced that I'm absolutely convinced that theywere literate. They were writing the translations,
(36:45):
and you went into going into translations. So for instance, on the
belt, I think it actually saysGod of God out of God's and they're
they're looking out on the horizon onthe vernal equinox is what they may have
seen as a God of God actuallyliterally rising in the so have you.
When I was looking around during yourpresentation yesterday, there were so many minds
(37:08):
that were blown by some of thattranslation work as well. And I don't
know what the going rate at theMarriott is for scooping up brains out of
the carpet, but it's got tobe steep. Yeah. So I have
literally all the questions for you.I've had like five years doing the show
to write them all down. Wedon't have time for them today, so
I'm going to just pick the oneand cloth let's let's do pillar forty three
(37:28):
enclosure d Okay. Along the topof that, we have the handbags that
are everywhere. Yeah, I justI have to know what what what?
What do you? What are thehell? I don't think they're handbags.
And I think what people are doingis they're they're actually doing very loose interpretations
and they see things that look somewhatsimilar. Um do I know ultimately what
(37:50):
they are? Not necessarily, Butwhat I speculated and I talked about this
yesterday, is that what we're lookingat is actually solar phenomena, and what
we may be seeing there is essentiallyyou could call it, we could call
it magnetic arching, electrical magnetic archingthat you see on the surface of the
sun. They're just recording with them, and they're recording what they're seeing,
(38:14):
especially if they were recording things thatwere very important to them, very impressive
to them, and you know,in times of calamity are things that we're
having a very real effect on them. And when I start looking at those
and look at solar arching as wesee it, I actually see it.
And Katie and I've been looking atthis together very close, you know,
(38:37):
depiction of it. If you lookat what look like handbags. They're not
just squares with a handle on topthat actually that little it's more arc on
it, and there's little animals sortof in front of it. And when
you look a sound the images ofthe sun and what solar arching looks like,
it often has that arching look,but then it has a sort of
(38:59):
blob called in front of it,which I think they're representing us a little
sort of I want to say,nondescript, but with no one even argue,
can no one even agrees as toexactly what animals they are. But
they look like little animals serve runningdown to me, that's indicating the movement
of the arc and the connections.So it's a much more coach and argument
(39:22):
than oh n old idea from Turkey. So I know our listeners at home
are wondering, Okay, when you'reexplaining that, are you talking about just
pillar forty three specifically? Are youtalking about you know, the handbags that
we see in Sumerian? No,No, I'm talking about this specifically.
Yeah, yeah, ok. Yeah. And also you know, I'm not
(39:43):
going to speculate about the Sumerian hands. They might be something totally different.
I mean, you know, there'sno need to say, oh, they're
necessarily the same thing, or couldthey be something that was ultimately derived from
this concept. You know, manysymbols have very may symbols and sort of
um, I know this from Egypt, you know, uh, what should
(40:07):
we say tools of authority and thepillars that the ones that they would hold
that type of thing, they goback to much earlier periods and in fact,
you know, even the people thatwe're using them may have forgotten their
very largious original purposes or where whatwas derived from. But I'm not going
(40:29):
to specular, right, Yeah,Like I said, it may be a
simple situation that things look superficially alikeand they've been equated and they've been inappropriately
equated, so that that takes morewell, Doctor Shore research on my part,
So thank you so much for it. We know you have so many
(40:50):
things going on, and we appreciateyou're about to just jump on a flight,
and we appreciate so much on bothyou and Katie coming in and spending
time with Lost Origins today. Thankyou. Our hope is that as you
continue to work on some of youramazing research and some of the other projects
that you're spending your time on,that we can come back and potentially have
a longer discussion in the future toreally look forward to that. But thank
you so much for like I said, I am all the questions so well,
(41:15):
we could go on for days.I'm sure I'm okay with it.
I'm okay. I know our audiencewould be cool with it too. So
thank you so much for carbon timefor us today. Doctor Shock means the
world. You're very welcome, soman, Robert Shock people. Yeah,
bucket don't ever say we didn't doanything for you. Check mark right there,
just off the bucket list. Shockingepisode filled with shocking revelations that was
(41:37):
really mature. But I will saythe coolest part of that actually happened after
the interview. We were standing aroundjust discussing with them some of the stuff
they're doing next. And Robert turnsto his wife and you know, she's
(41:59):
a pretty serious researcher in her ownright, you know, does a lot
of the work with him, helpedwrite the book like super Hitter. Um
turned to each other and they basicallyboth remarked that they do a lot of
interviews and that you specifically were becausethere's no way I didn't hit all the
notes that you were hitting there.He was like, you were, you
(42:22):
know, among the most prepared peopleto talk about Like it's super clear that
you live this life, that youare deep in this subject area. And
it was so cool to see himacknowledge, you know, how much time
you've spent really digging deep in thisstuff. And I just thought that had
or at least having not discussed itwith you afterwards, I assume that probably
(42:42):
hit you like a ton of bricks, just being like, my man,
he knows that I know this stuffnow. It was really cool. It
was really humbling for sure. I'vespent so much of my life reading it.
I mean, because I look athim as like one of the four
horsemen, right like when all ofthis alternative like concepts really came to the
front, you had John Anthony West, Graham Hancock, Robert Bouval and doctor
(43:06):
Shock basically spearing the charge as asquad. I mean, if you read
some of the older books, Ibelieve it's, yeah, Robert Bouvall's book
Revisiting the Great Pyramid, or Ican't remember the exact title of it.
I'll correct that and throw it intothe media page of this episode. But
(43:27):
if you flip through that you leavethrough it, you're going to see so
many photos of the four of themjust out there, boots on the ground.
Before It's like before Fingerprints of theGods had ever even been released.
It was like just the years ofresearch that went into it beforehand. But
yeah, he's been a staple inyou know, the books. I'm reading,
the documentaries, I'm consuming the allthe all the content I can get
my hands on Doctor Shock for sure, one of the North Stars huge and
(43:52):
just to you know, get intosome of the stuff that he discussed there
as well. I think just youknow, looking into Pillar forty three enclosure
dre you thinking about um, justdifferent kind of monoculture mythos, whether it's
Samarians or mary tribesmen of New Zealand, Olmes, whatever, you know.
Just the fact that we're able tosee these kind of celestial images, celestial
(44:12):
mechanics images and relief carvings that specificallyshow some knowledge of celestial mechanics at the
time, really cool stuff. Yeah, And I love that he's not just
like staying focused on that specific nicheof ancient history when he when he really
starts getting into like the solar flares, solar flares and you know, the
repinue people of Eastern Island, Like, it's just it's it's all pervasive,
(44:36):
it's global, it's everywhere, andman to be able to just have a
conversation with him face to face sucha cool experience. I cannot wait to
get him back on the show andjust continue to pick his brain. And
so I really appreciate him spending timewith us straight up. So next week
we are going to be returning tothe original format of the show. Remember
(44:58):
that, Yeah, there's going tobe you know, for some of our
newer audience members, this could bethey're like, why is this interview an
hour and a half? What ismy gosh? I just think I have
a day. Yeah we do.Yeah, just chriss pause, listen to
it later. Yeah, you figureit out, right, consume it over
a couple of days. Maybe you'redoing it like after you spend a half
hour on the Great Courses plus dotcom consuming a lecture or whatever, then
(45:22):
you d right, cross poll nationis healthy. So but next week,
when we return to the original format, we are going to be having a
conversation with Darryl Simms. So DarrylSimms is a rat rat individual, and
I'm going to try to describe himin a few words. Uh, the
Texas Ranger of Alien and Extraterrestrial Investigation. Yeah, so he had a show
(45:47):
on I want to say it wasDiscovery or History called Alien Hunter, and
basically because of an abduction event thathappened to him very early in his life,
he has been like just driven togo after extraterrestrials and really sort what's
happening. And man, he hasseen it all. And so this guy,
(46:12):
he runs so many different organizations,He's done so many different just like
interviews and all this accumulation of data, working with people all over the globe
to really get a sense of theextraterrestrial phenomenon that people are experiencing on the
daily throughout the globe, whether we'retalking lights in the sky, abduction events,
you know, everything in between.And so we had the opportunity to
(46:34):
you know, pick his brain forabout an hour. And next week,
you guys are going to get itto go full rip on that bad boy
boom yep, exciting back in action. Yeah, it's gonna be good stuff.
So make sure that you guys smashthe subscribe button. Do the five
star written review thing, hit usup on social media, go to the
website, scoop up some merged Patreondot com, Forward's last lost origins.
All the things, all the prerequisitesfor our new listeners that you know,
(46:58):
these are the things that we need, guys. That's fine, and tune
in next week for that conversation withDarryl SAMs huge. So until then,
I'm Andrew, I'm sk and wechallenge you to question everything.
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